Aabra-cadaabra: Demigod Iroquois

Welcome to Aabra-cadaabra: Demigod Iroquois.

A while back, I began playing Emperor in my solo games and, over the past few months, I've noticed that the "tipping point," where I begin to feel like the game is just a matter of time before it's won, has been coming earlier and earlier. That meant that it was time to give DG a run. It's not the first time I've tried DG. I've had several failures at it. I tried the first few on continents, thinking, "Hey, this is what I'm used to, so I'll stick with it." Suffice it to say that those attempts did not go well. . . Then I decided to go ahead and go with an archipelago map. I tried a few runs with 80% water & played the Dutch. I wanted to reduce AI-AI trading and to try to put myself in the broker's seat. Perhaps I could have won one of those games, but I decided that the islands that I got were just too small, so I rolled it back to 70% water and chose the Iros. Unlike "The Unluckiest Lucky Start" and "Awn of an Ynasty," I expect to post saves regularly in this game. Input, criticism and pointers are welcome.

So, without further ado, here are the stats:

The Statistics:
Version: Civ III Conquests
Level: Demigod
Civ: Iroquois
Victory Conditions Allowed: Any
Victory Condition On: Domination, SS, Diplo, Conquest, Cultural
Opponents: Random
Barbarians: Roaming
Scientific Great Leaders: On
Land mass: Archipelago
Water: 70%
Map size: Standard
Age: 4 Billion
Climate: Normal
Temperature: Temperate

After several restarts, I got this & decided that it was worth a shot:

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/368/01beginnings1mq0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Here's the full-screen shot.
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/9248/01beginningsfk0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Now, let's be clear: I've not yet had a DG victory. If I can pull this one off, it will be my first one. For me, it will be like magic if I can win.

I founded on the spot, and named my capital Aabraxa. Just so that you know this is not entirely a case of unbridled narcissism, perhaps a little of my gaming history is in order here. I've always liked being able to sort my towns/colonies/bases/planets in the order in which I settled them, and I like having my capital at the top of the list, so that it's easily accessible. As a result, years ago, I started naming my capital Aabraxa . . . You don't have to say it. I already know that it's nerdy. I came to grips with that a long time ago.

Anyway, here was my basic plan: (1) Expand until I'm boxed in; (2) Try to build the GLib; (3) Build Mounted Warriors; and (4) Survive as long as possible. I set research to Writing on max, thinking to use it for trade bait. Popping the hut gave me a warrior, and he set about exploring.
I soon spotted a couple of scouts on my landmass and realized that I had two neighbors: the Americans and the Mongols. OK. Two expansionists on my landmass. Hmmm, that tells me that I can expect to fall behind in tech very, very early. Not that I really expected to keep up at DG, at least not through self-research. On the good side, though, my neighbors: (a) do not have a great AA unit (like the Greeks or the Persians); and (b) are not agricultural. The Americans are industrious, so they're a little scarier than the Mongols. By 1750 BC, the Mongols and the Americans were at war & I sat back and let them traipse across my land, hoping that they would weaken themselves enough for me to perform some "aggressive expansion."

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3879/02beginnings2zs5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I had gotten Writing as a monopoly and traded it around for everything I could lay hands on. I then set my sights on Philosopy and continued expanding. Much to my own amazement, I pulled off the Philosophy slingshot! :faint: I grabbed Literature as my free tech and swapped whatever I had been building at Aabraxa to the GLib.

I expanded until I was boxed in, which happened at about 6 cities. This is much more cramped than my Emp games. Through trade and expansion, I learned that I had horses, but no iron. That's OK. I'll get MWs, if I survive long enough. I was also near furs, but Temujin grabbed them first. Silks are to the north and ivory to the east, but the ivory was too close to the American borders for comfort.

By 1000 BC, I was boxed in & knew I was going to have to fight someone. here's the empire at that point.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3583/03empire1000bcmj2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I grabbed the GLib, shut off research and began amassing gold. I also got HBR and began building MWs. Eventually, the Americans and the Mongols made peace. In ~650 BC, I DOW'd Temujin. He had furs and iron that I wanted, and the Mongol-American war had weakened him. I took a big stack of MWs and headed south. By 330 BC, I had taken Karakorum, which contains both the Colossus and the Great Lighthouse, and pushed UglyMug off the continent. The Americans got an MGL during the war and finished the SoZ, as well. Fortunately, they finished it shortly before the Mongol War ended, so, if luck holds, I'll be able to take it before Abe gets much use out of it.

It's now 110 BC. I'm preparing for a war with the Americans with Boston being my first target. It's the home of the SoZ, which I want for my very, very own. If I don't think I can hold it, I'll burn it down. From what I've seen, Abe has horses, but no iron. I've also made contact with the Spanish and the Incas.

Here's the empire at 110 BC.

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8190/04empire110bcpy5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Wish me luck!

Chapter 2: The First American War

In 70 BC, I DOW'd Abe. Normally, I would go all out on the attack. This time, though, I remembered what better players than I have advised and waited for the Americans to come to me. The stream of units that the Americans sent after me was impressive, I must admit. Markedly larger than anything I've seen an Emperor AI produce.

By 50 AD, I had captured Boston and razed Miami. The Americans are willing to talk, and will even give me Cincinnati for a PT, but that's on the far end of the world from my empire. I decide that I'm not done hurting them.

In 110 AD, I burn Miami down, garnering me 4 more slaves. That's 3 towns and I now have iron, at least for the time being. The Mongols are about to try to re-settle the southern peninsula, and I only have 3 turns left on their PT. They're an OCC right now, & I have galleys and MWs forming a "moving screen" in an attempt to prevent a landing, at least until the PT can be canceled.

Monotheism and Engineering are about to come in through the GLib. I'm running 40% lux. Perhaps it's time to make peace.

I decided to go ahead and pursue war with the Americans for a bit. I razed 2 more cities, one newly founded by ivory, but when Allegheny was about to riot, I decided to go ahead and make peace. Even with the GLib, I don't need to run 50% lux.

I said I didn't want those cities, but I changed my mind. Even if they do me no good, I don't want the Americans benfitting, either.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/8537/01americanptvu6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

After making peace with the Americans, I can still only turn down the lux slider to 30%

Peace rolled along nicely until 260 AD, when I DOW'd the Mongols again. They're still an OCC and I think they've got a settler on a galley, but killing off their only existing city will still prove to be a setback for them & I'm not interested in cutting them any slack.

In 280 AD, I finally make contact with Catherine. The only civ I haven't met at this point is Egypt.

Also in 280 AD, I succeed in destroying my first ever Demigod civ! (I guess they didn't have a settler on a galley, after all.)
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6971/02monogolsdestroyedoa6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

On the IBT after 280, I learn Theology, as well as the facts that both the Sistine Chapel and Leonardo's have been started by AI civs.

In 370 AD, I make contact with the Egyptians. That's everyone. With 5 turns left in my PT with Abe, I decide to go see my military advisor. Here's where I stand:

vs. Russia -- I am strong.
vs. America -- I am strong.
vs. Spain -- I am strong.
vs. Celts -- I am average.
vs. Inca -- I am average.
vs. Egypt -- I am average.

As an interesting side note, I built the Great Library and I've gotten bunches of techs from it, but none of the AIs have had enough gold to make selling techs worthwhile. Sorry, but I'm just not taking 20 gold for Literature.

In 390 AD, I get some bad news:
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7619/03educationlearnedno5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Nothing significant happened in 400 AD, but that seems like a good place to stop. I've got 2 turns of peace left with Abe and a couple of stacks of fast movers in position. As soon as the PT runs out, I'll be ready to clear some more land for expansion . . . or at least I think I will.

Here's the save at 400 AD and I'd very much appreciate advice & comments.

As I noted in the two chapters above, I feel like I've got a shot at beating Demigod on this one. Please feel free to download the saves and give pointers, advice or comments.

Don't build pikes. Useless.
Build settlers - you have to fill gaps.
Build more and more knights.
Amass military and capture America.
You need also more ships. After wiping enemies from your continent you need great fleet of caravels or galleons (upgraded from previously builded galleys) to make GREAT invansions. This is demigod. Small invasion is dead invasion.

Boy, the grass sure doesn't grow under your feet! :lol:

This is looking really good so far. I'm signed in now and ready to read any time you post!

hi aabra, already another game? take my DOS (declaration of subscription).

i downloaded the file and will post more in case i have anything meaningful to say.

well, that looks like a very nice course for your first DG victory.

a few ideas:
1. trade more. ok, the ai has no money for your techs. but try and invest only 5gpt and you´ll be able to gain 2 luxes (from the Celts,eg) - if you get enough luxes and you can set the lux slider to zero, this would net you about 50 gpt!
2. for this, you´ll have to build markets. you hardly have any. this already costs you loads of money plus causes a happiness issue you needn´t have.
3. i don´t really understand the granary build in your capital. what are you going to do with it - build settlers from there again?
4. i think your next war against the Yanks should move the borders to the 2nd choke point, at least. all of the American cities are built on plain ground, which is good luck. and they defend with reg spears :rolleyes:
5. before you´ll want to invade another continent, better trigger world war. most of the AIs each own their continent. that doesn´t make life easier. therefore, make good use of the diplomacy potential.

the one important input for your question you have not delivered is, how do you want to win this? by conquest, like last time? your chosen VC will make a big difference of how to continue from here in this game.
space race would be a very secure way of winning this one.

Interesting shaped landmass, I've never seen such a long peninsula ever come up in any of my games.

Good luck. I always wanted to move on but never had the heart or the time.

You might be expecting a Demigod SG from me in the coming months, So keep your eyes open.

Agree with Overseer about a wierd landmass

the one important input for your question you have not delivered is, how do you want to win this? by conquest, like last time? your chosen VC will make a big difference of how to continue from here in this game.
space race would be a very secure way of winning this one.
templar_x, thanks for the suggestions. Next time I load it up, I'll take a closer look in light of those. As for the granary, yes, I was planning to pump some settlers from there. I feel like I've got the firepower to push the American borders back and I will need settlers to fill in the spaces before someone else does. But yeah, I do need some markets.

How do I want to win? I'll take anything I can get. My preferred route would be military, probably by domination.

Overseer -- yeah, that is an odd peninsula. It made war on the Mongols easy, though.

good luck on DG. i'll be lurking about :goodjob:

I loved your other story. I'm sure this one will be awesome too!
*Subscription!*

Chapter 3: The Second American War

It took me a while, but I finally found some time to pick this up again. I looked over everything, and checked out diplomacy. Looking at the trade screen, I could pick up some luxes from the celts, but it looks like my trade routes will be cut as soon as I DOW Abe. Think I'll skip those trades for now. I decide to go ahead and finish the granary in Aabraxa.

After some looking around, I make the following trades:
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/643/01egyptianwineng0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/1193/02spanishdyesed4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Even two extra luxes is not enough to drop the lux slider for my largest towns, so I go back to the trading table again:

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/5657/03incanspicespu6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

In 410 AD, Isabella comes calling. She wants an alliance against the Russians and an ROP. I politely decline. That same year, The Forbidden Palace is completed in Grand River.

My PT with Abe expires and I waste no time. First, I demand his whole 5 gold. He declines & I DOW.

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/245/04americanwarqy7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

420 AD
Los Angeles is razed.
Cleveland is razed.
I round up 3-4 more American slaves.
Philadelphia is razed.

430 AD
The Americans settle Kansas City immediately adjacent to the ruins of old Philadelphia & right next to one of my stacks of knights.
Kansas City is destroyed.
During the attack on Washington, I finally get an MGL!
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/426/05firstmglen6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

For the first time, I actually rename the MW. I name it Shenandoah after the MGL it drew.
The Celts complete Sun Tzu's Art of War at Entremont (on another landmass).

440 AD
Shenandoah builds the First Knight Army.
New York is razed.
My offensive stalls when The Invincible Spearman shows up in Washington, but it's not enough to make peace.

450 AD
Washington falls and the Mausolleum of Mausollos with it. I raze the city and that Mausolleum is lost to humanity.

At this point, I have pushed the Americans almost back to the second choke. Now that I have a knight army in the field, I think their subjugation will go much faster. I know it was a short set, but RL's been insanely busy lately. Here's the save if anyone wants to take a look.

Exxxxcellent, Smithers! Put those Yanks in their place, Abbraxa! But -grrrr-- to those AIs making you give up techs just to swap a couple lousy luxuries with ya. As if they ain't getting the same benefit out of the deal. This is just more confirmation to my theory that modern capitalisto-communist China in the RW is being run by a Civ3 AI (probably Hiawatha).

How do I subscribe to a thread? This one's a keeper.

PS, as a longtime monarchy player who's only played on the harder levels just for the experience of watching my caboose get kicked by a computer, let me just say this about you taking on (and even out performing) civs in demigod...

:bowdown: :bowdown: We're not worthy!

Subscription post. I've enjoyed your stories, Aabraxan.

Thank you both. Hopefully, I'll get some time to update this soon. RL has been ridiculously busy lately.

Posted to subscribe and to cheer you on. :D

Thanks, gma. Always a pleasure to have you along.

I did get a few hours to play, which took me up to 570 AD. I don't have time to post a full-fledged turnlog, but, for those of you who want a peek at what happened:


I pushed the Americans back to the second choke, which was only a couple more cities.
The Celts declared war on me.
I discovered Gunpowder.
I do not have any saltpeter.
The Americans do have saltpeter, and it's not far from my borders.

How do I subscribe to a thread? This one's a keeper.

At the top of each page where the actual thread posts start is a little box named "Thread Tools". In it is a place where you can subscribe to a thread without having to post in the thread.

I know that sounds sort of garbled, but it is far easier to do than explain.

~~~

I subscribed a while back. I haven't played a solo game above Monarchy, so this will be instructive. Plus, Aabraxan tells a good tale.

Chapter 4: American & Celtic Entanglements

450 AD:
A galley heads south out of Houston. Otherwise, no significant AI activity. My people want me to build the Heroic Epic. I will, in time, but not right now. Forces are still not at "overwhelming" status, so I need more.

460 AD:
A whole lotta troop shuffling going on this turn. It's not until the IBT that things get interesting. There's unclaimed land, so I have visitors & the Americans are still trying to rebuild.
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/5480/01celticarrivalqq4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I might, & I stress "might," be able to take on a second front against the Celts. A smarter move might be to ally the Amis against the Celts, but I'm afraid that the Celts would just chew the Amis up and spit them out, resulting in an even stronger Celtic threat. For now, I think I'll just work around them.

470 AD:
The Americans approach me for peace & they'll even give me Denver for it. My forces are right out side Houston (the American capital), so I'm not quite done pounding on them. I decline.

480 AD:
Nothing remarkable. Found one town, continue to prepare for the assault on Houston. Continue to :gripe: about the celts settling in land that I sooooo conveniently cleared for them. That's OK. I'll deal with that later. I also see some action in the Russian-Spanish war.

490 AD:
The Americans are building the Knights Templar. All the more reason to keep pounding them.

500 AD:
I finally launch the assault on Houston. The first few pikes fall with relative ease. Then, of course, Iron Pikeman shows up and the battle gets costly. 3 knights die on the pike. Nonetheless, I persist.
http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/2804/02houstonrazedzt6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

On the IBT, Brennus shows up, demanding gold.
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/8637/03brennusdemandsgoldpe2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

A quick consultation with my military advisor tells me that, compared to Brennus, I have "an average military." OK. At Demigod, if I'm even close enough to be average, that's better than I'd have expected. One unfortunate aspect of my situtation right now is that Brennus has Gunpowder as a monopoly.

I decline Brennus' demands.
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/8095/04brennusdowgq6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I think now is the time to make peace with Abe and see if I can throw in an MA to engineer more war happiness in the future.

Unexpectedly, Isabella shows up, making demands of her own.
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/8079/05isabellademandshorsesoh4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Hmmm. . . another quick check with the Mil. Adv. tells me that I'm strong compared to the Spanish. If they don't have horses, I can't say that I'm really interested in giving them any. Besides, I could use some extra WH to offset the WW that I fear is coming at the hands of the Celts. I decline. Isabella goes away, but doesn't DOW me.

On the IBT, a galley of mine, sitting in American waters is hit by bombardment from an invisible enemy!!!

On the other hand, I decide to go see Abe & bury the hatchet. Here's the deal I cut.
http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/5586/06americanpeacejx0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

520 AD:
Obviously, I messed up that whole turn-counting thing again. :blush: Anyway, in 520 AD, I destroyed both celtic cities in formerly American land. As the Celts are mostly on another landmass, and on the other side of the 'Muricans, I'll probably just let them slug it out while I get my forces together for another push against Abe and get some settlers out into this open land.

I've begun the process of paring down all those spears & pikes that I built. It makes me very nervous at this level. I keep thinking, "What if the AI suddenly lands a large stack of knights?" At Emp & below, I know better. This isn't Emp & below, though. I'm currently allowed 42 units and I have 74, so I'm paying 64 gpt in support. I'd like to trim that and I will, over time. The other obvious issue here is that I need to put more cities down.

IBT:
The Celtic city of Verulamium completes the Sistine Chapel.

530 AD:
Pretty boring turn. Moving troops to intercept Celtic landings that never occur, upgrade a couple of units.

Gunpowder comes in. I start Chemistry.
Americans finish Knights Templar. Crap.
The Spanish begin Leo's.

540 AD:
Go on the hunt for saltpeter. I do not have Saltpeter. Looks like the Americans have the closest source.
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/5202/07americansaltpeterhg9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I've got 17 turns left in my PT/MA with Abe. That's enough time to build up a force sufficient to take that salt, right? Besides, Abe can't use it yet, because he doesn't have Gunpowder. I'd sure like to take it before he can build any muskets. Pikes have been hard enough on my troops.

550 AD:
More cities founded, no battles fought.

560 & 570 AD:
Egypt comes sniffing around my coastline. I think they want some of this empty property, too. I station units at Chokepoint Charlie (where the Americans come through) and seal them in. If they want any more of this land, they'll have to load a galley to do it.

And here ends Chapter 4. So far, I'm pretty happy with this. I've made it to 570 AD and I'm still alive. That's pretty good for me. I feel pretty confident that I can take the Americans down, but it might take me 2 more wars to do it. Whether or not I can keep up with the AIs technologically, or whether I can survive beyond that remains to be seen.

Wish me luck!

Subscribing..the day may come when I actually try DG :lol:

Best of luck, Aabraxan.

You need to rush some settlers, get that empty land settled ASAP, it will draw AI settlers like flies to honey at DG level. I'd say space it CxxxC and then ICS it later when you can fill in the gaps. Otherwise it looks good.

Agreed, Overseer. I've done my best to block off the only land approach to that open ground, but the AI's production at this level is downright scary.

You are safe from landing by a large stack of knights, unless you define large as 1 or 2. And you'll be able to see them coming from a long way away - if you are worried, build a galley or two yourself as a lookout.

The AI doesn't get any smarter about landings - they never, ever build a huge stack of transports. I think the most transports I've ever seen is 2, accompanied by 6 frigates, on Sid, and I don't think they were full.

Thanks, ATM. Good to know. One of the things that I did in the last set was to start ridding myself of pikes & spears in favor of stacks of knights stationed at intervals around my coastline. Hopefully, that will help.

I have not been able to look at the save, but I would agree to not worry about knight landings. The pikes will be of little value anyway. You must attack knights on your soil or they will attack at their choice or pillage. The problem will be that they tend to have LB and Muskets with them.

Bombardment is your friend in those matters. As to smarter, no they are not as the AI is Regent regardless of the game level, unless you change it.

That said they will come with larger numbers, but not too bad. I have had as many as 32 galleys come my way at Sid and that was from just the Aztecs, others where coming from other nations. That is unusual though, that is why I remember it.

Did you get an army along the way? I do not remember reading about it. Could you add the grid so pix are easier to fathom?

I did get an army, but just one so far. It's a knight army. And as far as the pikes go, yeah, I'm trying to get set up for an "active defense" using knights & disband the pikes.

Now that you mention the grid, I'm surprised that I even posted any pics without it. I always play with it on.

Interestingly, you can lower the lux to zero and all cities will still be content, at least until several of them grow in 3 turns. Your gpt will rise to 41 gpt then, Also, it is possible to trade a tech to Incans for their spices. Just a thought.

Perhaps a granary in Tyendenaga? It has 5fpt, although not much shields. At least then you can rush settlers when it's about to grow to 9, would be faster. Although cash would be problematic IMO.

What VC are you going for, Aabraxan? It seems to me like an eventual conquest would take too long for this map. Domination/UN?

Thanks, Sashie VII. I'll look into those things. As for VC, I'll take whatever I can get, but I'd prefer to go the military route. Conquest might take too long, but I'd be happy with Domination, too.

Chapter 5: Who knew Demigod could be boring?

Review:
First, I go back and review the save and the thread. I haven't had time to civ in almost a month, so I just hope I haven't forgotten where I am in this. Following CommandoBob's fine example, I run through a short "pre-flight check." At this point (570 AD), I have:

26 cities
Russia has 27
America has 7
Spain has 19
Celts have 19 (known)
Incas have 9
Egypt has 13

50 workers, composed of 48 slaves and 2 natives
27 knights
20 pikes
9 trebs
8 MWs
4 galleys
3 spears
2 settlers
1 archer
1 swordsman
1 longbow
1 army (knight)

Native stuff
2 horses
1 iron
2 furs
1 ivory
1 silk

Importing
1 wine
1 dye

Exporting
1 fur
2 ivories

192 gold
Science 60%
Lux 10%
Chemistry in 6 at +6 gpt

Look at the Trade Options screen. I'm at least at tech parity with everyone and there's not much gold to be had right now.

And awaaaaay we go:
------------------------------------------

Drop lux to 0%, income grows to +41 gpt
Switch one scientist to a tax collector, +43 gpt

Zoom to Tyendenaga. A granary would take 15 turns & it's at growth in 3, settler in 8. I decide to let this settler build complete. It'll hurt my unit support, but it seems like the granary will be a better idea if it's < size 7.

Hit Enter
Lots of boats roaming around, no landings.

St. Regis: knight->granary (+7 fpt, 8 net spt)
Boston: LB & AC->knight

580 AD
Shuffle some units, begin regrouping for the next assault on Abe.

IBT:
Akwesasne: Treb->Treb

590 AD
I see that the Celts have Chemistry. I'm still 4 turns out. No SGL for me on this one.
Just out of curiosity, I go see Brennus. He'll give me all his gold (136) for peace, but not a city or Chemistry. As much as I'd like the gold, that'd bust my rep because I've still got turns in the alliance with Abe.

It's about now that I realize that the +7 fpt at St. Regis won't get me settlers any faster than +5 and will only waste food. Swap it back to a knight.

IBT:
Aabraxa: knight->Heroic Epic
Grand River: settler-> knight
Cattaraugus: knight->knight

St. Regis is about to riot. The Russians want furst +229 gold for their gems. The Inca want 2 luxes, Monotheism and I don't recall what else. I buy Russian gems. It is just enough to keep St. Regis happy. Swap knight to market. I really need to build more of those.

Begin disbanding spears & pikes. I trim the military budget, but I'm still at 62 gpt in support when I've done all the trimming with which I'm comfortable. Logically, I know it's choking my budget, but I'll feel much better about trimming military after I've removed the Americans from my continent.

On the IBT after 600 AD, I lose my supply of wines (Egypt). When Cleo comes to break the bad news to me, she wants ivory, horses and monotheism for wines. Hmmmm. Not yet. We'll see what she'll trade on my turn.

Then I lose my supply of Dyes (Spain). Isabella will sell them back to me for horses, though. Again, we'll wait just a minute.

Naturally, Aabraxa riots. Zoom in and scroll ahead, managing happiness....

Once I've shuffled my units around, I go back to the trading table and make the follwing deals:
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/506/01egyptianwinesou9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2199/02spanishdyesfx9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Naturally, I then go MM my cities.

On the IBT following 610 AD, the Celts drop one lone GS off near Aabraxa. I also get notification that they've begun JS Bach's Cathedral.

In 620, Chemistry comes in and I set my sights on Metallurgy, due in 9 at 70%, +18 gpt.

At the end of 630, I go visit Catherine and make the following deal:
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7746/03russianmusictheorykq7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

640 AD comes to an end and the Americans still haven't made peace with the Celts. Geez, the one time I want them to make peace (& DOW me) and the AI just won't cooperate!

IBT:
Boston: Aque -> MM for food -> Knight
Mauch Chunk -> Aque -> harbor

650 AD:
Uneventful . . .

IBT:
Grand River: Knight -> Setter
Oil Springs: Settler->library
Tyendenaga: Setler->Marketplace
The Spanish are building Bach's.

660 AD:
In 660, I see that the genie is out of the bottle on Astronomy. Russia, Spain & the Celts all have it, and I have no tech to trade to any of them. Drat. I trim the list of pikes even further, but I'm still ~30 units over my support limit.

At this time, I have:
29 cities
3 settlers
1 native worker
48 slaves
2 spears
8 pikes
3 LBs
35 knights
4 galleys
1 army
1 MDI
9 trebs
6 ACs

Now if Abe would just go ahead and DOw me, I could push his borders back just a tad . . .

IBT:
Akwesasne: Treb->harbor
Tonawanda: Treb->Treb
Centralia: Setter-> Knight (but it will need a library soon)
Kahnawake: Aque-> MM for food-> Treb

The Celts are building Cope's.
The Celts have completed Leonardo's.

670 AD:
Also uneventful.

IBT:
Gewauga: Harbor-> Rax (it's putting out 8 spt and netting 5)
SoZ produces another AC
Niagara falls: Knight-> settler
Grand River: Settler-> library
Allegheny: harbor-> knight
Cattaraugus: Knight-> knight
The Russians start Bach's.
The Spanish start Bach's.
The Spanish start Cope's.


But the Americans stiiiiiiiiiiillllll won't make peace with the Celts.

680 AD
Still waiting on Abe. Have I mentioned that this whole "reputation" idea really bites sometimes?

IBT:
I notice that Banking is out there, too. Spain and the Celts have it. Clearly, I'm falling behind in techs, though Metallurgy is only about 3 turns out. Once that comes in, I'll have to see what I can get for it.

Gayagaahe: Trebuchet->treb
St. Regis: market->lib
Oka: aque->knight


690 AD
Oiogouen founded

IBT:
zzzzz

700 AD
Skannayutenate founded.
Nothing eventful.
The MA w/ America should end this turn.

IBT:
Inca & Celts sign an MA vs. America.
Inca DOWs America.
Celts drop off a longbow in my land.
Isabella gets aggravated about my galleys in her waters. I tell her they'll leave.
Spain & Russia make peace.
Metallurgy comes in. No SGL.
Military Tradition is next.
SoZ is now obsolete.

Niagara Falls: Settler->Knight
Owego: treb->treb (remember, I've got to go get that saltpeter).


710 AD:
The MA with Abe has ended. I really cannot recall the last time I saw an AI make it the full 20 turns of an MA. Anyway, off to see the Inca first.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/3275/04incanspicesid4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I check with everyone else, but nobody has more to offer me for Metallurgy than Brennus. It's time to shut down the MA with Abe.

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/6954/05americanwar710adcm6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Then, I'm off to see Brennus.
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/89/06celticpeace710adwl5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

OK. So I've picked up Banking and Astronomy, along with a little change for me pocket. Now that I have Brennus' payments, I can run 100% science and get cavs in 6 at -16 gpt.

So off to war we go:
San Diego falls.

I run out of time to really prosecute this war before I have to shut down, so I'll stop here. I think I'm in pretty good shape to kill off the Americans, or at least hurt them pretty badly. Unfortunately, they've had a full 20 turns to do nothing but build units.

Advice and comments are, of course, welcome.

For me, it will be like magic if I can win.

I'd say you're on the road to victory at the moment :lol: :)

I hope you're right. Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Best of luck! I'll be watching! Can't wait for next episode!

I think the reason Abe didn't break the MA was because you tied it to the peace treaty. If he really didn't want to go to war with you again, he might as well continue the MA against the Celts. Just a guess though.

Exxxxcellent, Smithers! Put those Yanks in their place, Abbraxa! But -grrrr-- to those AIs making you give up techs just to swap a couple lousy luxuries with ya. As if they ain't getting the same benefit out of the deal.

Sure, they may be getting a luxury too. But they know that you need it more than they do. I did have an AI give me a tech for a lux once. :drool: I think that was a much easier difficulty, though. The price of luxuries is a bit high though, but just low enough that you will pay for it [pissed]

Chapter 6: Competition for Cope's

This Chapter starts off in 710 AD, when this happens:
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/3743/01heroicepicxf4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Perhaps I'll draw a few more leaders now. With Military Tradition just around the corner (~5 turns), it'd sure be nice to draw a few more leaders.

I begin building a few caravels. It will be time to launch overseas soon.

The Russians begin Cope's.

720 AD
Knights & AC take down American spears & a LB at Richmond. (3-0).
Richmond falls.

Brennus still has a LB in my territory. I shadow it with a couple of knights, just making sure it can't get to a soft target.

730 AD
The Battle of San Francisco (size 6 and the American capital).
Bombardment reveals 3-4 spears (3, I think).
First Knight Army (12/12) vs 2/3 spear. Army wins (4-0)
Switch to eMW (5/5) vs. 1/3 spear. eMW wins, no MGL. (5-0)
eKnight vs. 1/3 spear. Kight wins (6-0), no MGL.

I now have Saltpeter. Keep San Francisco for the salt, put it on a starvation diet and build workers. Swap treb builds to cannons.

eKnight vs. Crusader (don't know if it was reg or vet), Knight wins, no MGL (7-0)
eKnight vs. 2/3 spear.

New Salamanca is founded. That puts me at 36 cities, with 27 belonging to my nearest competitor, Russia.

IBT:
Isabella demands that I remove my boats from her waters. I comply.
Catherine demands that I give her silks free of charge. The Russian Military has the Knight and compared to Russia I am strong. I decline. The result?

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/6505/02russiandow730adbj9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

While I'm in the MA screen, I notice that, compared to the Celts, I'm weak. Clearly, I'll have to find a way to fix that.

Mauch Chunk: Harbor->knight
eKnight vs. 1/4 pike. Knight wins. (8-0)
Nothing else on the battlefield, except that I get my stacks reorganized to compensate for the ones that have gone back to heal.

IBT:
Boston: Knight->Market
Grand River: Library->settler
Allegheny: Knight->settler

I forget to log a couple of turns, but on the IBT following 750 AD, the Celts begin Magellan's Voyage.

In 760 AD, New Niagara Falls is founded.

In 760 AD, I'm 1 turn from Military Tradition. The Celts are up 1 tech that I can see, with Navigation. Otherwise, I'm a potential seller of techs. The Celts have 281 gold, compared to my 239. However, once I turn down research for this last turn, I'll be at +294 gpt, so I'm still in this game.

Lo and behold! Military Tradition nets me an SGL! Wahoo!

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6301/03miltradsglyz6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I set my sights on Physics, but switch to the Lone Scientist for now. I need gold for upgrades & cavalry right now.

I've a settler one turn from completing at Aabraxa, so I decide to let that finish before I burn the SGL for a Wonder. Right now, Bachs and Cope's are the only Wonders available to me. Competition looks like this:

Bach's
Russians
Spanish
Celts

Cope's
Russians
Spanish
Celts

On the IBT, those clever Americans, with a stack of knights and an army sitting on their capital's doorstep, send a LB out of Buffalo (their capital) to attack one lone Celtic LB. Smart move, Abe!

In 780 AD, I burn the SGL for Cope's. I also take Buffalo, but no MGL. I decide to keep Buffalo, just because I don't expect the 'Muricans to be around much longer.

On the IBT:
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/8752/04copesinaabraxahc0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And Aabraxa starts the Military Academy, due in 22. It still needs a bank, though.

St. Regis: Library->Cav
Boston riots! Dagnabbit!
Niagara Falls: Cav->Cav
Centralia: Cav->Market
Tyendenaga: Market->Harbor

The Celts are building JS Bach's.
The Celts are building Magellan's.

790 AD:
Detroit falls.

I'm making enough cash right now to rush more units, more builds and upgrade those knights. Until my continent is entirely under my control, that's my plan. Happy Thanksgiving to all and thanks for following along and for any input you might have.

I think you got rid of Chemistry too soon. I wouldn't say you really trailed in tech.

Perhaps. When I first read your post, I couldn't remember when I'd traded Chemistry. My thinking was probably just that the Celts already had it & I didn't want them to trade it around and devalue it before I could.

In Chapter 5, it did feel like I was falling behind in techs, but it looks like I was able to correct that by the end of Chapter 6. It may have been nothing more than my having a skewed perception of the tech situation. At any rate, I'm not unhappy with my tech position now.

I'm glad to see you're perservering, even if slowly, and doing so well, Aabra! :)

Ditto, gmaharriet. It feels like a very long time since I saw you post :)

I've lost interest in my own story, and having a new game to play doesn't help. Tips?

If you're referring to me, Sashie VII, it had been a long time since I updated this story. RL has been sandbagging my civ lately. I have very little time to play and, even when I do find time, I've been playing this game very slowly and trying to be careful. Hopefully, I'll have RL under control sometime in the near future and can play this one out in some reasonable time frame.

Understandable, of course. I've been finding chess more interesting lately, as well as other strategy games that I've played years ago. Might be another civ-burnout for me.

Keep it up Aabra, your story is my only civ-connection atm :cool:

Yeah, lots of players go through civ-blahs now and again. I haven't really gotten them yet, but when I do, I'm sure that I'll go back to SMAC and MOO2 for a few games. At any rate, slow though I may be, I'll keep working at this one.

[/lurk]

Where's the "pokes with stick" smiley icon?

[lurk]

Sorry about the lack of updates. This game is still going, and I even found enough time for a few turns last weekend, but not enough for a "real" update. If you're interested, here are the highlights:

The Americans are dead.
I'm still at (largely phony) war with Russia.
I'm still competitive in techs.
The Egyptians cut my wine supply.

good good... just seeing if it was still in progress. I know there is not always time for civ, sadly :sad: Keep up the good work!

Chapter 7: American Elimination

790 AD is where I left off. It's been a while since I played, so it takes me a bit to review just where I am in relation to the rest of the world.

Diplo: At war with Abe and Cathy. Check.
Tech: In a respectable 2nd place. Check.
1 enemy ship in my waters, no other enemy units in my land. Check.
No cities about to riot. Boston is rioting, but will come back under control next turn. Check.
OK. Away we go. . .
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

790 AD:
See some Conquistadors.
Egyptians begin Bach's.

800 AD:
Uneventful. Move units around. Kill an American Templar, no MGL.

810 AD:
Oka riots. Drat!
My deal with Egypt for wines runs out. Take a look at happiness. Even at 0% lux, I now have enough native luxes and markets to get by.
Knight->Cav upgrades are almost complete. I've got a couple of libraries to rush, then probably crank up on science once again.

The Siege of Chicago begins:
It's spears on hills, size 3, no walls.
Trebs redline 4 spears.
Chicago falls with no losses.
The Knights Templar is mine and:

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/1981/01nomoreamericanskv5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

At that point, I took a break (read: ran out of civ time that day). Upon returning, I've MM'd my cities and rushed a couple of markets. I really want to control my own landmass, but that will mean war with Brennus & he's still paying me 64 gpt.

IBT:
Spain quits selling me dyes, but offers to renew for horses. We'll see what she's got on my turn.
Aabraxa riots. Crap! Scroll forward and hire some specialists.

820 AD:
Hit the F4 screen. Isabella has traded her dyes away & Cleo has traded her wines.
Bump lux back up to 10% & go back through my cities.

Brennus has a couple of troops on my soil, & I could give them the boot order, but I'm going to wait until I've upgraded my knights to cavs & trebs to cannons. Then I'll see if I can get him to DOW me. In the meantime, I'll just keep blocking access to open ground.

Russia is willing to negotiate (has been for a while), but Cathy has ~12 gold and Navigation. . . & she won't give up Nav.

Rush ~5 settlers and a market. Start some caravels. I have enough firepower to handle Brennus' military on this continent, but I've got to start preparing for an invasion.

Spanish complete JS Bach's.
Celts start Magellan's Voyage.
Celts complete Magellan's Voyage.

I had hoped to sneak in a few more turns, enough for a "real" update. I wanted this update to have pictures and circles and arrows, 'splaining what each one was, but Little Aabraxan got sick today, so I'll have to cut this short yet again. The save below is from the start of a turn, rather than my usual end-of-turn saves.

Chapter 8: Celtic Conflict

At long last, I get a small chance to, as Little Miss Aabraxan calls it, "conquer the planet." When last I played, I ended at 830 AD. The Military Academy is 18 turns out at Aabraxa, Physics is 44 turns out at minimum research, cavs are in, and I'm just about ready to clear my lands. The only thing holding me back is the fact that the Celts (who need to be removed from my landmass) are still paying me 64 gpt.

First of all, here's what my land looks like:
Here's my core:
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9965/01overviewmaincu4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This is the eastern half of my landmass:
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3069/02overviewsecondarypd1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And this is my empire, as seen from further away:
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9129/03overviewzoomedoutmh9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Here's the trade screen of CA2:
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/2759/04tradescreenia7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I'm still at war with Cathy, but at peace with everyone else. I'm getting spices from the Inca and 64 gpt from the Celts. If I remember correctly, the Russians DOW'd me, and I haven't lost any units to them, so there's no reason to make peace. I'm rather enjoying the War Happiness.

Militarily, here's how I stack up:
vs.
Russia -- I'm strong.
Spain -- I'm strong.
Celts -- I'm weak.
Inca -- I'm strong.
Egypt -- I'm weak.

Drat. Here I am contemplating war on the Celts and they're the ones compared to whom I'm weak. Guess I'll have to buy some alliances when that time comes.

I spend 830 AD upgrading vet knights to cavs. At the end of the turn, I check my status with my Military Advisor again, and I'm still weak.

Also, I have 41 cities and 56 slaves. No native workers, but I sure would like more slaves.

I also need to get started building a navy. I'd like to invade someone. Don't know who yet. Maybe Egypt?

In 840 AD, Cathy will negotiate. I dial her up, but she'll only give me about 30 gold for peace. Does War Happiness wear off? AFAIK, it doesn't, so I'll just stay at war.

Taking a look at the trade screen, I have 1200 gold. Nobody else has more than 30. I could crank science up to 80% and get Physics in 6, but then I'd only be getting +37 gpt. I decide that I still have some cash-rushes that I want to finish, so I leave it at minimum science. I'm still competitive technologically, but I feel like I have to keep an eye on it. By 850 AD, Navigation has been sold around. Soon enough, I'll have to increase science spending to keep up, but I'm OK for now. I'm also about to claim a couple more sets of furs and silks, so I'll have something to trade . . . if I want to trade overseas.

I've had a couple of Celtic interlopers wandering through my lands. By 850 AD, I've only got 6 turns of gpt left from them, so I open a door for them to enter. Once he's there, I'll see if I can give him the "leave or declare" order & we'll take it from there.

Looking at the diplo tab, I discover that everybody and their dog is disdainful of my culture. Apparently, I am in awe of theirs. Not much of a surprise there.

In 850, Izzy wants to trade maps. I forget what the danger of trading maps is, but I seem to recall their being one, so I decline.

In 860, Brennus steps a pinky toe into my land:

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2438/05brennusdeclaresyt8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Yippee! :bounce:

I can turn lux spending down to 0% now.

It looks like the Incas may share a landmass with Brennus, so I go see them for an alliance:

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/7290/06incanalliancecl1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I'm not sure that trading gunpowder is a great idea, but I don't want the Incans overrun by the Celts too easily. I'd like for the two of them to burn off some of their units against each other . . . rather than against me, of course. Unfortunately, once the deal is made, I check for resource trades only to discover that the Incas don't have any saltpeter. Doh! :wallbash:

860 AD -- Cataractonium falls. No MGLs.

On the IBT after 860, a Celtic eKnight attacks one of my eKnights and I get to see a rarity inded: my eknight generates an MGL! Because I'm so close to having my landmass conquered, I think I should send him back to finish the Military Academy.

870 AD -- Ratae Coritanorum falls. The Celts now have 1 city on my landmass and my knight army is headed that way.

I'm going to stop here, in the hopes of getting some input on the use of that MGL. I could make a cav army, but I'd still have to wait until galleons to transport it fully loaded. OTOH, I could rush the Military Academy and then I'll be able to build armies. Opinions?

Remember the words of machiavelli, Beware what you trade to allies, as your equipping future enemies.:lol:

Yeah, I know. I don't usually trade GP, and the Incas would have done the deal for Theology instead (IIRC), but it was my hope that GP would give them some better defensive units with which to fight. I would probably have thrown saltpeter into the deal, if I'd had an extra to trade. Ah, well. One more town and the Celts will be off of my land, anyway.

Chapter 9: Wars Galore

Ok. As of this playing, I've gotten no suggestions on what to do with that MGL, so I'm still planning on taking him back to Aabraxa and finish the Military Academy. I hate to burn an MGL on an improvement, and I hate to burn an MGL when I've already got almost 140 shields invested (that's what CA2 says, anyway). Ideally, I'd burn the MGL on the first turn of production of the Military Academy to get maximum benefit out of him. So in 870 AD, I swap Aabraxa to a bank (2 turns out), and I'll restart the MA when Cornplanter arrives at Aabraxa. I consider putting in a university and probably will, eventually, but I'm still running 0% science (that's got to change soon), so a bank will serve me better. I also cash-rush a few more settlers. It's way past time to have my land mass covered by my own borders.

On the IBT, I spot a couple of Russian boats sniffing around my borders. Looks like they're getting ready to invade. . . .

Sure enough, on the next IBT, Cathy drops 3 reg Knights on my land. Fortunately, she dropped them within about 4 roaded tiles of 5 vet Cavs. (3-0, 1 promotion to elite).

In 890, Cornplanter reaches Aabraxa and I rush the MA. Wahoo! Now, even if MGL-Luck fails me, I can get 2 more armies for the Pentagon. Also in 890, St. Louis is destroyed. I am now, and at least for the moment, the sole inhabitant of my landmass. Now I just have to finish filling that landmass with settlers. CA2 says I have 7 settlers. That will fill quite a few gaps, but I'm not sure it's quite enough.

The MA will complete next turn and I now (mostly) control my landmass. I won't post this just yet, but it seems like a good place to stop.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 890, the Mil Acad completes, as expected. I don't need any new units right now, so I'll peel a settler off of Aabraxa, then start on an army. I also finally crank up the science on Physics. At 80%, I can have it in 5 and still make a profit. Given that I have almost 2K gold in the bank and my next competitor has 26, I feel pretty good about that.

The Celts persist in dropping off donations, ummm, settler pairs on my land, so I keep welcoming the new workers into my empire with open arms.

In 910 AD, I discover that Russia has beaten me to Physics by 2 turns. No SGL for me this time, but that's OK. I decide that maybe it's time to make peace with Cathy, but she won't give me anything for it. Ah, well. I gave peace a shot.

I've been debating an invasion of Egypt for quite some time now, but I can't decide if that's a good idea. I guess first I need to wrap up my Celtic War, then move on. I think I'm going to move some caravels into position to take out the Celtic islands east of my landmass first, then I'll think about invading their landmass.

In 920 AD, Spain drops off a conquistador, a settler and a spear on my land. Did I mention that I really, really don't want anyone else on my land?

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9667/01dowspain.jpg

If there's one thing that I've learned about Demigod from this game, it's this: The AI still stinks at naval invasions.

Oh, and Russia also dropped off 2 vet Knights and a reg LB right next to one of my cannons and 5 vet Cavs. That didn't work out all that well for them.

In 920 AD, Physics comes in & I set my sights on Theory of Gravity. I can have it in 6 and I don't really need frigates yet, so Magnetism can wait.

By 930, Brennus requests an audience. All he wants is peace, but, unfortunately, I still have 13 turns of alliance against him. Sorry, Bren. I do discover, however, that he's got 463 in the kitty and that I can't sell him physics.

In 940, Russia mounts another invasion. Apparently, Cathy thinks that she can sneak a force onto my land, if she just skips the knights. One lone longbow lands on my shores. Oh, and Brennus donates another settler pair. Ain't that generous of him?

I'm going to start upgrading some pikes to muskets. I can see some nice mountains to land on in Celtic lands, but I've never invaded anybody at DG before. If my units are going to get butchered, I'd like for them to take a few of the bad guys down with them.

950 AD -- Russia drops off 3 more knights, earning me 3 more kills and 2 more promotions to elite. Then *Egypt* drops off a settler trio (pike, MDI, settler) on my ground. I only have a PT going with them, but life would just be simpler if nobody else settled on my land. Egypt also DOW'd the Inca.

I consider making peace with Cathy, then sit down until the feeling goes away. DOW Egypt to keep them off my landmass.

In 960, I learn that the Egyptians are building Smith's. Hmmmmmmmmm.

In 970, Theory of Gravity comes in, but no SGL. That's OK. I start on Magnetism (6 turns at 70% & +45 gpt), then swap the Army at Aabraxa for Newton's University, due in 15.

Just after that, a flurry of civs start Smith's. I'm concerned that I'll get caught in a cascade, but I guess I can always swap Aabraxa back to an army if need be.

In 980 AD, I'm at war with the Russians, Spanish, Celts and Egyptians. IOW, I'm at peace with the Inca. At some point, I suppose I'll make peace again, but we'll just have to see when.

I crank up science to 90%. Nobody has ToG yet and and Newton's is 14 turns out. It's still possible for me to be 1st to Magnetism. I know what the odds of getting an SGL are, but if I can get Magnetism as a monopoly, it will make decent trade bait.

In 990 AD, I get notice that the Celts are building Newton's. My build at Aabraxa is still 12 turns out. I still have 6 turns left on my alliance with the Incans, so maybe I can investigate once that alliance ends.

In 1000 AD, I'm still at war with everyone and their dog (except, of course the Inca), and comfortable in techs. I could buy PP, Econ and Navigation, but as far as I can tell, the Celts are the only ones to whom I cannot sell ToG. It's at this point that the Incas and the Celts make peace. Just to be sure of my reputation, I won't make peace with the Celts until next turn, but I've been wanting to either: (a) invade them; or (b) make peace. They have more gold than anyone, so I may make peace now that the Incas have.

Strike all that. I'm not making peace until my landmass is fully within my cultural borders. I've been glad to have the extra slaves, but I've grown tired of the AI dropping off settlers on my land. (Ok, so it's not under my cultural control yet, but it's still mine.)

With all of the garbage that the AI's been dropping off on my shores, I've been doing as much leader-fishing as I can. I haven't had exactly stellar luck with MGLs this game, but Spain's hapless MDI finally yields this:

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/6342/02mgl.jpg

I have no small wonders available right now, so I build an army. Perhaps I'll fill it with muskets or rifles for my invasion.

In 1010, Magnetism comes in and I enter the Industrial Age. On the IBT, the Spanish begin Newton's, I swap some builds to frigates, crank research up to 70% (for steam in 9 at +40 gpt; at 90%, I could have it in 7, but at -86 gpt and I've only got 1084 gold in the bank). By 1030, I'm still the only one in the IA. In 1030, the Russians begin Newton's. My build on that one is 8 turns out.

At 1070, it's time to take a break again. I think this game is in a winnable position. At this point, I'm simply waiting until my landmass is filled before making peace. At that point, I may make peace with several nations, though I have some reservations about making peace with Brennus. He feels like the biggest threat at this point.

My lands don't look much different than they did at the last update. I've continued to fill empty land to the east, and I have almost filled this subcontinent. I didn't take screenshots of the empire, but I have landed an invasion force on the Celtic island east of my lands. I ordinarily don't invade until my landmass is filled, but I'm very close to having this land filled and I have settlers en route to the last spaces.

Chapter 10: Finishing Newton's University

I've been woefully short on time these past few months, but was able to squeeze in a little Civ time today. It took me a little while to dig out the disks, as my wife and I are trying to move and she cleverly packed my Civ when I wasn't looking!

Anyway, a quick review:
-- Technologically comfortable
-- Economically comfortable
-- Diplomatically, well, at war with everyone but the Inca. That means at war with Spain, the Celts, Egypt, and Russia. No alliances formed, though, so I can make peace.

Militarily:
57 cities
8 settlers
5 workers
77 slaves
1 pike
9 muskets
5 knights
44 cavs
10 cannons
5 caravels
1 frigate
2 armies (1 knight, 1 empty)(How is it that I don't have a cav army yet?)
5 MWs
4 crusaders
1029 gold, +33gpt

On the IBT of 1070, the Egyptians request an audience. They want peace, but I wait until my turn to deal. They'll give me 30 gold and their territory map for peace. I take it. Unfortunately, I can't recall if I'm getting War Happiness from them. Guess we'll see. Once peace is made, I bargain with Cleo until I get the following:

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4695/01egyptiantrade.jpg

I didn't need everything in that trade, but I'm glad to have Navigation.

On the IBT after 1080 AD, I see an Incan galley attack an Egyptian one, and the Russians request an audience. Cathy wants peace, but IIRC, I'm still milking them for War Happiness. I don't have any alliances against them, but I like War Happiness. Thank you, no, Catherine.

In 1100 AD, Steam is 1 turn out, with Newton's University due in 2 at Aabraxa. Unfortunately, Newton's is also under construction at Yekaterinburg, Toledo & Alesia (all owned by their original civs). I guess if someone beats me to it, I can shoot for Smith's or another army.

Interestingly, nobody has Steam yet. Many of my workers are already divided up into teams to begin railing.

1100 AD: Steam-->Electricity

Naturally, no more Crusaders. Also, no SGL on Steam. But I do have one source of coal! Russians drop a couple of Cossacks on my land. The Russians are building Shakespeare's Theater.

eCav vs. Cossack -- Victory & MGL!

1110 AD:
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9770/02newtonscompleted.jpg

At 80%, Aabraxa is now a 119-bpt city. Now to start planning the ToE. . .

Oh, and I've finally gotten the go-ahead to start the Pentagon, so I scoot on over to Oil Springs and swap a cav build to the Pentagon, due in 23.

The Russians swap to Shakespeare's. The Spanish switch to Smith's.

I'm still trying to take Burdigala from the Celts. It's sitting on grass, but it's still a size 8 with rifles. I've pillaged the iron next to it, but the Celts have at least one other source. At any rate, it may be time to make peace with some of these yahoos. I'll take a look at that possibility in Chapter 11. I know this one's slow goin', but I do still intend to finish this one &, with a little luck, to win it!

very very good i wish i could do demigod... and hope you get ToE. dont you just love that thing...

BTW sorry if im posting on a dead thead (hehe rhyming amuses me)

Admittedly, this game has been comatose for a while, but it's not dead. I've just been a bit busy.

I hope RL is OK for you.

Thanks for your concern, Dumanios. RL is fine, just very, very busy.

might i be a chieftain noob but you inspired me and for this i subscribe:)

Just stopped by to say "hello". Glad to see you're soldiering on and doing so well. :goodjob:

Just stopped by to say "hello". Glad to see you're soldiering on and doing so well. :goodjob:

It feels like ages since I last saw you post. :wavey:

It has been ages since gmaharriet posted. Hi, gmaharriet! :wavey:

Gmaharriet, hey there, girl! Good to see someone from some of the SGs I've played and watched back on the site, if just for a visit.

Chapter 11: Starting the Theory of Evolution

Welcome, Camulodunum and anybody else following along. Sorry that it's taken me so long to update.

I've been trying to take Burdigala from the Celts for ages now, but I've just about decided that it's not worth it. It's a size 8 with a rifle showing, so I'm going to lose more units before I take it. Maybe it's time to make peace with Brennus.

I have one source of coal, but only one. I have begun laying the strategic railnet.

After double-checking to make sure that I don't have an alliance against Brennus going, I dial him up. He'll trade me both of his maps for peace. He would throw in Nationalism for Steam, but I'm not willing to let go of Steam yet.

Unfortunately, that requires me to bump lux up a notch to 20%. Apparently Brennus declared on me & the WH outweighed any WW that I was getting from trying to take Burdigala.

Ah, well.

By 1150 AD, the east-west axis of the strategic railnet is laid. This allows me to get my forces better organized. Now I just have to figure out who I'm going to invade next. Because of the odd shape of my continent, I still have to lay several different lines of north-south rails. The Spanish keep dropping Conquistadors off on my coast . . . only to have them killed off.

In 1160, I get the announcement that the Celts are building Shakespeare's Theatre. That's the same year that the Spanish drop off their largest invasion force to date: 1 Longbow & 2 Conquistadors. I love having the railnet in place. Lets me move lots of cannons into position to pulverize them. Unfortunately, I'm unable to net an MGL this time.

Also unfortunately, in 1170, I notice that Russia & the celts both have Steam. I missed the opportunity to sell it around and they're the only ones who have Rifles. I'd hoped to trade Steam for Nationalism (not that I've ever had any luck trading for Nationalism . . . ), but that's not going to happen, I guess.

Interestingly, in 1170, I spot a Celtic Frigate enter the same tile as a privateer. Guess I know who's sponsoring the pirates, eh?

Fortunately, the Spanish keep sending me fodder for MGL-fishing.
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7090/01mgl1180ad.jpg (http://img30.imageshack.us/i/01mgl1180ad.jpg/)

The Spanish only sent 2 LBs and a spear, so I figured I'd use the eKnight & eMWs that I have sitting around. They're still useful against those kinds of units. Sitting Bull is immediately dispatched to Aabraxa to finish the Pentagon.

----------------------------------------------------------------

I've had a bit of a break from civ. Just been too damn busy to play. Today, though, Mrs. Aabraxan is out of town, Princess Bloodthirsty is watching cartoons, and I am going to squeeze in some turns. Harumph!

It takes me a while to reorient myself in this game, figure out who's building what, who I'm trading with and who needs a good, old-fashioned whoopin'. I'm also glad that I left myself a note in this file that said, "*** TIME TO START A TOE PREBULD***." Guess it's time to start one.

I have to say, one of the things I hate about coming back to civ after a hiatus is that I don't remember why I did things. I'm looking at my "Current Trades" screen & wondering, "Now, why exactly did I trade furs AND horses to the Egyptians?!?" I know that I must have had a reason & it's probably posted in my last update, but I'm too lazy to go that far to figure it out.

I see that I'm still at war with Russia . . . I no longer remember the last time we were at peace, either. As far as I remember, I'm still getting WH off of that, so that's OK. Oddly, compared to Russia, my military is weak. Apparently, I'm still at war with Spain, too.

Here's the military comparison:
vs. Russia -- weak
vs. Spain -- strong
vs. Celts -- weak
vs. Inca -- strong
vs. Egypt -- average.

Here's my CA2 trade screen:

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3042/02tradeoptions.jpg (http://img205.imageshack.us/i/02tradeoptions.jpg/)

In 1180, we complete the Pentagon in Aabraxa. I also notice that the Celts are building privateers. I know this because I just saw two of them sink boats of mine, then pass right through other celtic boats when they were done. I start an army in Aabraxa, as a ToE prebuild. Electricity is only 1 turn out.

1190 AD:
After what seems like centuries of bombardment, I finally succeed in disconnecting Spanish iron at Valladolid, on an island not far from my land. Unfortunately, that's not their only source.

Electricity comes in & I realize that I still need Medicine before Sci Meth. Oops.

Egypt finishes Smith's

I finally make peace with Russia. I'm itching to go invade someone else (probably Egypt), and Rifles are a big advantage over muskets on the initial landing. Let me just also note that this is one of the very rare occasions on which I've been able to trade the AI out of Nationalism. It's only after typing all this that I realize that I forgot to take a screenshot. D'oh! Here's the deal:
We give:
PT
Electricity

They Give:
PT
Nationalism
1820 Gold


I then sell Elec to Brennus for Spices, PP, WM, TM and 44 gold. That's the best deal that he'll make. I've basically sold it for a song, but since I've just made peace with Cathy, I feel like I really need the extra lux.

Looking at my tech situation, I think I started the prebuild just a touch too early. My army is 11 turns out, but I estimate that SciMeth is ~13 turns out. I swap Aabraxa to a University, which I'll rush in just a few turns. Nobody else has Medicine yet, which means that nobody has SciMeth, either. Whew!

1200 AD:
The Russians start Shakepeare's.
So do the Spanish.
And the Celts.
And the Egyptians.

1210 AD:
Rush the Library at Aabraxa. Next up is that Army/ToE Prebuild that I keep talking about.

1220 AD:
Spain drops a Conquistador & 2 LBs on my land. So nice of Isabella to drop them right next to the strategic railnet so that I can get to them. Ship a stack of cannons to them, bombard, and kill them. I even have enough cannons leftover to pound the ship that dropped them off.

Anyway, this is where I'll have to stop, at least for now. Princess Bloodthirsty (my daughter) is itching to go do some stuff on this fine Saturday afternoon, and I'm going to indulge her. I have done my best John Henry imitation in railing my continent, and I've made good progress. The strategic railnet is almost complete and I've started railing the core. Pretty soon, though, all that extra food and shields is going to require some MM work. Specifically, I will need to go through my empire city by city and MM every one of them.

The Egyptians are due south of me and weaker militarily. I've been eying their land for a while now. With about 7 turns left in our trade, I think it's time to start gearing up to DOW Cleo.

Thanks to everyone who's following along. My empire doesn't look very different from the last update, but here's a screenshot nonetheless:

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/4186/03overview.jpg (http://img205.imageshack.us/i/03overview.jpg/)

If I'm lucky, I'll get to start Chapter 12 today. Whether or not I get to remains to be seen, but I hope that it won't take me as long to post the next update.

Edited to add: I just went back and re-read this. I didn't realize that I'd actually had two opportunities to trade for rifles in this update. That's unheard of in my games!

you know sometimes i have that feeling. 'why the hell did i do that?' feeling like when i wear pink socks cause im too lazy to find others. (please dont mock me:cry:) enough of my irrelivance good to have you back. oh and do i hear... yes a epic sea invasion.:p

Chapter 12: I got some good news, & I got some bad news . . . .

A quick review of the trade screen & I discover that the only techs available for purchase are Communism, Fascism & Democracy. I like that. I don't want any of those, anyway.

Medicine is 3 turns out, my army (ToE prebuild) at Aabraxa is 12 turns out. Hopefully, I'll time this right. Wish me luck.

Diplomatically, I'm mostly at peace. I'm only at war with Isabella & she doesn't pose a threat, so I see no need for peace. Last I recall, I was gearing up to go invade Egypt . . . Fun, fun fun!

The Russians complete Shakespeare's Theater.

Spain is willing to negotiate and in 1240 AD, I dial Izzy up. She's still not offering much, so I don't think I'll make peace. I'm only running 20% on the lux slider, so I'm not getting any WW from her & I may well be getting WH from her.

In 1240, Medicine comes in, but no SGL. Drat! I was hoping to get an SGL here to lock down the ToE. Ah, well. I set our scientific sights on Scientific Method. Due in 6 at -7 gpt. Prebuild won't complete for 11. Good shape, as far as I can tell.

In 1250, I discover that Russia has Replaceable Parts! Oh, crap! I really thought I'd be first to that. I guess if I get the ToE, I'll take Atomic Theory & Electronics, then try to trade for RP. Here's hoping that she doesn't trade it to Egypt. She'll offer me Gems, Demo, 130 gold, 43 gpt & her wM for Medicine, but I can't seem to pry RP loose from her, at least not yet.

Also in 1250, the Inca come a-calling. They want MPPs and RoPs. They're a One-City-Civ and they want an MPP from me?!? I don't think so.

Over at Burdigala, I've been seeing lots of movements on the IBTs. The Celts are getting fidgety with those cavs. I have this sneaking suspicion that they'll DOW me soon.

OK. Now let's check with our Military Advisor. Compared to the:
Russians, I am weak.
Spanish, I am strong.
Celts, I am weak.
Inca, I am strong.
Egyptians, I am average.

I do a little examination of the Espionage screen & the map. I (allegedly) have an embassy with them, but I cannot locate their capitol. No cities come up for investigation and they have no cities in their city list in the diplo screen. I believe they are the infamous "settler-on-a-boat" at this point.

Lo and behold, I think I know where that one lone settler is:

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8254/01incasettlerboat.jpg (http://img209.imageshack.us/i/01incasettlerboat.jpg/)

I have several frigates parked in the white circle on the minimap, and I think I'll send a few of them on the hunt for that Incan boat.

In 1260 AD, I dispatch a couple of frigates to take down that Incan boat. Might as well eliminate them now, I figure. The strategic railnet is laid. There are a few cities not quite yet connected by rail, but I can now reach each and every city on my continent in the same turn in which a landing occurs & can do so with cannons, rifles & cavalry. I still have lots of rail to lay, but that's to increase food & shields. I'm adjusting farms as I get rails laid around them, so turns are fairly slow at this point. I'm just OCD enough to enjoy the micromanagment, though.

By 1260, the Russians have sold RP to the Celts. I see an active trade in the F4 screen between Brennus & Cathy, but I haven't figured out what they've traded. What I have figured out is that there's a grand sum of 144 gold between all of the AI civs, & Cathy has it all.

1260 AD -- The Russians are building Universal Suffrage.

In 1270, my frigates finally catch up to that Incan galley. Just to get the lastbit of intel out of them, I trade the Printing Press for their World and Territory Maps. Then I DOW. I sink the galley, but do not get a "They have been destroyed" notification. Maybe I just overlooked their city. Or maybe they have another settler/galley pair.

By 1270, I have my invasion fleet loaded. I hope this is enough to invade Egypt.
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6505/02egyptianinvasion.jpg (http://img209.imageshack.us/i/02egyptianinvasion.jpg/)
I've been puttering around in Celtic Waters & Brennus finally gets the nerve to come give me the boot. Naturally, I tell him I'll move my boats. Turns out he'll trade RP straight up for Medicine. I don't make the deal, because I want to bargain on my turn, but maybe I can get RP, after all.

1270 AD -- SciMeth comes in. Swap Army to ToE, now due in 10.

I dial up Brennus. He will, and I do, make the following trade:

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/142/03celtictradeforrp.jpg (http://img246.imageshack.us/i/03celtictradeforrp.jpg/)

WAHOO! Replaceable Parts & ToE in 10.

I then sell Medicine to Cathy for gems, WM, 40 gold and 45 gpt.

In 1290, I am finally in place to DOW Cleo, and I do. My daughter, whom I call Princess Bloodthirsty, has been watching me play & she's very pleased with my DOW. She's been trying to get me to DOW somebody, anybody, for a while now. She's 6 and has begun playing CivRev on her DS. I can't get her to stay at peace for anything. THAT'S MY GIRL! :lol:

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/5521/04dowegypt.jpg (http://img202.imageshack.us/i/04dowegypt.jpg/)

I land on an Egyptian hill, and spend a while watching Cleo shuffle her units back and forth. Geeeeez, they've got a lot of units at DG . . . None attack me, though, so I will at least get the opportunity to plant my city and rush my rax. We'll see how long I last after that.

1290 - The Celts start Universal Suffrage.

In 1295, I found Egyptian Beachhead, kill a few units, and promptly disconnect Cleo's saltpeter. On the first IBT, the Egyptians send what is, by my standards, a ridiculous number of units to attack EB. My Rifle Army is redlined, and several of my Riflemen are promoted to elites. Actual loss of units is minimal, though. I'm glad that I put EB on a hill.

On the next, IBT, though, I take truly massive losses at EB. The first thing I rushed was a rax, but perhaps I should have rushed walls first. I lose all of my rifles and my rifle army. By the time the IBT is over, EB is protected by 2 eSpears & 2 redlined cavs. I have no galleons to which to evacuate them and reinforcements won't arrive in time for EB to survive. I'll have to abandon it & try this whole invasion thing again. I do so, rather than deal with the WW that would be caused by its inevitable loss. The cav army is now a 4-unit army and can no longer be loaded onto a galleon. It just became a pillager. I guess that answers my earlier question: No, that wasn't near enough units to invade at DG. It would easily have been enough at Emperor, but DG is a whole different ballgame.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/5163/05ebabandoned.jpg (http://img5.imageshack.us/i/05ebabandoned.jpg/)

The Russians start the ToE. It has apparently been started in Krasnoyarsk.

I finally get around to building an embassy in Moscow.

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/3978/06moscow.jpg (http://img96.imageshack.us/i/06moscow.jpg/)

While I'm there, I decide to investigate Krasnoyarsk. ToE has indeed been started there, but it's a ways out.

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7603/07krasnoyarsk.jpg (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/07krasnoyarsk.jpg/)

The last IBT left me with some hellacious War Weariness. Yes, "hellacious" is a word, at least in the American South. I have to bump lux spending to 40%. Ouch.

In 1310, New Kente flips to the Celts.

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1979/08newkenteflips.jpg (http://img202.imageshack.us/i/08newkenteflips.jpg/)

As much as I hate to do it, I decide to make peace with Cleo. She lost more units than I did in the last (unsuccessful) invasion, and her time will come, but I've decided to focus on Isabella. Compared to her, I'm strong. Izzy hasn't caused me nearly as much WW, so perhaps I just need to work on killing her.
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2500/09egyptianpeace.jpg (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/09egyptianpeace.jpg/)

1315 -- The Celts begin the Theory of Evolution. They do this at Augustodurum, so I go investigate. Again, they're a little behind me.

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/996/10augustodurumtoe.jpg (http://img246.imageshack.us/i/10augustodurumtoe.jpg/)

I also finally get around to building an embassy in Thebes:

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9445/11thebes.jpg (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/11thebes.jpg/)

Finally, I get some good news:
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/3212/12toecompleted.jpg (http://img185.imageshack.us/i/12toecompleted.jpg/)

Naturally, I take Atomic Theory & Electronics. Neither draws an SGL. I'm probably going to trade for Industrialization, but it's been an exhausting set to play, so I'll worry about that later. Oh, and on the IBT after this, the Celts cut off my supply of spices. That's OK. I've got to go back and kick them off my continent anyway.

Too bad about the invasion, but don't forget about sneaking off planet in a space ship.

But like you, I'd rather my first victory on a higher level be Conquest/Domination. If you can to that, then other VCs are almost a push-over.

I haven't forgotten the possibility of a SS victory, but yeah, I'd prefer a war victory. Even if I were interested in a cultural victory, I'm too far behind in that area to pull it off. Now that I've got Infantry, artillery & cavs, though, I hope the next invasion (probably the Spanish) will go better. Wish me luck!

Like this story, you're doing good:)

Hope you kill some Celts soon:p

Oh, I'll have to kill some Celts sooner or later . . . & it's going to be tough.

Welcome to CFC & to Aabra-Cadaabra! Glad to have you along.

Chapter 13: Hoover & and end to the Inca

1325 AD -- My computer is horribly, horribly slow these days, so playing out these turns has gotten almost unbearably slow. Nonetheless, I just can't resist this game! I check the F4 screen and it looks like I don't have any deals going with Brennus. I don't like the idea of having a Celtic city on my continent, so I'll be declaring war on him by the end of the turn.

Taking a look at science, I had this game set to lone scientist, but I think I want to push towards Industrialization, so I reset the tax collectors to beakerheads & crank up the science spending. I also have to push lux spending up to 30%.

Before DOWing Brennus, I go visit Cathy. I sort of hate to trade AT away, but she's got Industrialization & Sanitation. I may actually have some core cities that can make use of Sanitation in this game. The only thing that you can't see on the screenshot is that her World Map is also part of the deal.

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/4720/01tradeattocathy.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/i/01tradeattocathy.jpg/)

Then I'm off to see Brennus. He's willing to offer Spices and Democracy for AT. I'm about to DOW you and I'm not goin' ta be needin' Demo, so no thank ye, Brennus.

I swap Aabraxa to the Hoover Dam (23 turns) & I'm off to see Cathy again. I don't think I'll trade Electronics away, just because I want to keep a monopoly on Elec for a while. Cathy has The Corp, it's tempting, but I'll pass. Reassessing my tech situation, I'm now down The Corp, Demo, Communism, and Fascism. Cathy has the monopoly on Corp, so the price is high. I switch to lone scientist to amass gold. I even rename New Akwesasne to Lonescienceville so that I will know where my lone scientist is housed. Also, I have a stack of approximately 30 settlers, so I switch all settler production to other stuff, primarily artillery. Final result: The Corporation in 50 at +468 gpt.

I then sell Medicine to Cleo for 20 gold +10gpt. Not much, but it'll help.

I go check with my military advisor. According to him, I am weak compared to the Celts. Nonetheless:

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/656/02brennusdow.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/i/02brennusdow.jpg/)

I swap Aabraxa back to a hospital & rush it (ouch!), and I guess I'll start Hoover's after that.

A quick head count at New Kents (using artillery) reveals that the Celts haven't moved any new defenders in! Yay! An elite MW reclaims New Kente from the heathens.

So, with my city reclaimed, my galleons loaded with infantry on the way to Spain, and an afternoon nap creeping up on me, I'll end this turn.

Upon my return from naptime:

I investigate the possibility of an alliance vs. Brennus, and even though Cleo would make an alliance against him for horses . . . well, I just don't think I want to do that. If she can't build cavs, I'm OK with that.

Having had my butt handed to me in my feeble attempt at an invasion of Egypt, I decide that a somewhat larger stack of better troops is necessary for this invasion. Here's the stack immediately after landing. No counterattack has occurred yet.

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2552/03spanishinvasion.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/i/03spanishinvasion.jpg/)

By 1340, I have reduced Burdigala, a Celtic city off my eastern coast, but within artillery range, from size 9 to size 1. Man, I love me some arty!

In 1345, the Siege of Cordoba commences. Unfortunately, I didn't bring a lot of arty with me (yet). In fact, I only have one with my stack right now.

vCav vs. Conscript Rifle -> Rifle dies
vCav vs. rPike -> Cav dies
vCav vs. rPike -> Pike dies
vCav vs. 2/4 vPike -> Cordoba taken & razed

I've got enough cavs that I decide to go ahead and attack the other Spanish city on the island (Validolisomethingorother), and it falls, too.

On the IBT after 1345, Cleo (resplendent in her Little Bo Peep hat . . . ) comes calling. She wants an MPP, an RoP, and 38 gpt. Yeah, right. When pigs fly, Cleo.

Princess Bloodthirsty (my 6-year-old daughter) has come to play. I let her use a few cavs and she successfully vanquishes the last Spaniards on the island to my southwest. I cash-rush a few artillery, so that I've got a few extra to ship abroad.

1350 -- Russia and Egypt sign an MPP. The Celts deposit an invasion force of one magnificent LB on the same spot they've been trying to invade for centuries.

1355 -- The Celts drop off the largest invasion force that I've seen.

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/659/04celticcavinvasion.jpg (http://img265.imageshack.us/i/04celticcavinvasion.jpg/)

Naturally, I pound them with artillery. I then send cavs & two of my three remaining eMWs to kill them. No problem on the killing part, but I have absolutely zero luck in the Promotion/MGL department. Zero promotions, zero MGLs.

1360 -- Celts & Egypt sign an embargo against me. Do those cut off gpt payments, 'cause I'm supposed to be getting some gold from Cleo. Hmmm, a quick look at F1 seems to indicate that they do not cut off gpt payments.

Still haven't found the Incan city.

1370 -- The Spanish begin Universal Suffrage.

1375 -- The Russians begin the Hoover Dam. I am 5 turns out from Hoover's, but the next 5 turns will be a nail-biter for me. I lose my supply of Gems (Russia), and 45 gpt that I was getting from them. For the sake of my own sanity, I investigate YUaroslavl', where the Russians are building Hoover's.

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/1009/05yaroslavlbuildinghoov.jpg (http://img265.imageshack.us/i/05yaroslavlbuildinghoov.jpg/)

Now that Cathy has Electronics, she won't sell me Corporation. Ah, well, I'll get it eventually. I ask her about gems and she wants Ivory, Furs, my WM and 470 gold. Hmmm, let's go onto the open market and see what I can get.

Turns out that no other luxes are available. However, Cathy will sell me her gems for Ivory and 42 gpt. She would also have sold them for Ivory and 748 gold in a lump sum, but if she Dows me, I want her to lose the per turn payments, on top of losing the ivory.

1380 -- I have finally, FINALLY destroyed the harbor of Burdigala by bombardment. The Celts have been sending wounded boats back there to heal ever since I DOWed them, and they'll finally have to send them a little further away.

On a different note, I'm currently running 40% lux and 2 or 3 of my decent producing cities are getting cranky. I won't say that they're threatening to riot yet. Time to either make peace, or get someone to DOW me.

Nonetheless, I now own a second island.

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6587/06glanumsecondisland.jpg (http://img81.imageshack.us/i/06glanumsecondisland.jpg/)

I get 10 gpt from Egypt and they have crap techs that I don't need, but I want some WH from them. I decide to attempt a tech steal.

Unfortunately,
07 Failed Egyptian Tech steal
Brennus wants peace in 1380, but he's only willing to pay 300 gold and ~25 gpt for it. As I've only lost one or two units to him, I don't see the point yet.

Looking at trade screens, Cathy will sell me Espionage for my WM and ~2100 gold. In order for me to sell it, though, I need a buyer. The only viable buyer for that is Brennus & he already has it. . . I'm OK technologically, but not what you'd call outstanding. Doesn't look like I'll be making any headway this turn, either.

In 1390, I land on the Spanish Mainland. Perhaps I should have taken a little longer to organize my forces, because my galleons are all out of whack. My landing force consists only of 1 settler, 4 infantry, 6 cavs and 3 artillery. Fortunately, I have enough galleons and am close enough that I can bring in reinforcements in short order. Wish me luck.

1390 AD -- Cathy shows up demanding stuff.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9576/08cathydemandsfurs.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/i/08cathydemandsfurs.jpg/)

According to my military advisor, my military is weak compared to Cathy's. Given the AI's demonstrated prowess at naval invasions, I'm not overly concerned about it, though.

The Russians DOW me. For some reason, I cannot get the screenshot to show up.

Fortunately, Brennus is still willing to make peace and he's even willing to go in on an alliance against Cathy.

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/8878/10celticpeace.jpg (http://img682.imageshack.us/i/10celticpeace.jpg/)

He's also willing to wheel and deal on Corp and Espionage

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2632/11celtictrades1395ad.jpg (http://img524.imageshack.us/i/11celtictrades1395ad.jpg/)

I then sell Electronics back to Brennus to reclaim some of my money. Hoover's is 2 turns out and he has no other GWs under construction right now.

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8914/12celtictrades1395adpt2.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/i/12celtictrades1395adpt2.jpg/)

That puts refining on deck and, according to CA2, nobody has it to sell. I cannot see what the Russians have, but Cathy is still wearing her Industrial Age garb. I decide that it's time to start burning some real research money again. Oh, and my science advisor says I'm technologically advanced! WAHOO!

In 1395, something somewhat unsurprising happens:

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6861/13celtsandhoover.jpg (http://img524.imageshack.us/i/13celtsandhoover.jpg/)

1400 AD was a remarkable year. First, I completed the Hoover Dam in Aabraxa:

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/9743/14hoovercompleted.jpg (http://img503.imageshack.us/i/14hoovercompleted.jpg/)

and second, I finally locate the Inca!

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/6180/15incansettler.jpg (http://img517.imageshack.us/i/15incansettler.jpg/)

That same year, the trade embargo against us between the Celts & Egypt ended, as well. Egypt also declared war on the Celts, which might explain that. The Egyptians started Universal Suffrage, and I sacrificed an army, disbanding it at Aabraxa to speed up a factory. I cash-rush the rest of it. I can't remember the last time I actually did that. The Egyptians want wines and Scientific Method for wines. I only have 3 native luxuries, so I'm hurting in that department. I take the deal.

The Celts want 2 luxes, my WM and 830 gold for one lux. Sorry, but that's too steep for me. The wines that I just bought are my 4th lux, and I'll be taking some Spanish dyes soon, so I'm going to pass on that for now.

Now that I've found the Incan settler,
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4960/16incansdestroyed.jpg (http://img402.imageshack.us/i/16incansdestroyed.jpg/)

In 1405 I take Toledo with moderate losses. It's not a great battle for me, but it was size 10 when I razed it and I got the following stack of slaves.

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/8605/17toledofalls.jpg (http://img250.imageshack.us/i/17toledofalls.jpg/)

Finally, in 1405, the last turn that I will play for this chapter, Aabraxa completes its factory, as expected. It now produces an even 100 spt, plenty for 1 turn cavs, or 4 turn armies. I'll crank out a couple of armies (I've had dreadful leader luck this game), then maybe build the Intelligence Agency.

I have to say that I feel pretty good about this game. I may yet lose it, but I will at least be able to say that I gave them a good run for their money.

Chapter 14: The Egyptian Campaign

This time, I can return to the game before totally forgetting what happened last time. I start by MMing a few cities and swapping some builds from arties to aques to raise my unit support. I'm currently 35 over the limit, so that's 70 gpt that I could spend elsewhere.

On the first IBT, I see craploads of Celtic boats sailing around. They appear to be looking for open land for settlers, because they are all headed for the few open spaces. Also, Russian frigate comes out of the fog and sinks one of my frigates. I currently have my frigates spaced out so that I can keep a broader eye on the passage I'm using to ship troops to the Spanish front lines. Losing that frigate sets about 6 cities up to "about to riot stage." War Weariness = 42%.

However, the Spanish are only willing to pay 20 gold for peace. No gpt, no tech, no cities. So I decide to bump the lux slider back up and press on.

In 1415, I found cities to fill the remaining available land. Fortunately, before I quit last time, I put settlers in place for just this.

All of my stuff was bad out of place and in 1470, I was still organizing my fleet for another run at the Egyptians. Aabraxa was doing a nice 100 spt, and I was 1 turn from the Intelligence Agency when pollution struck. Left me ~3 shields short of completing it. Drat.

In 1470, I finally get around the replacing the MW and Pike that have garrisoned it for the last, oooh, 1800 years . . .

1470 AD -> Combustion comes in. Flight is up next!

1475 AD -> New Gewauga flips to the Celts yet again. . . *Sigh* Interestingly, a Rifleman pops up instead of Infantry, so I'm guessing that the Celts don't have any rubber. Clearly, I'm going to have to carpet-bomb Celtic lands when Flight comes in. Maybe I should prebuild some bombers.

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1694/01newgewaugaflips.jpg (http://img526.imageshack.us/i/01newgewaugaflips.jpg/)

I cash rush a few destroyers, enough to run my treasury down to a whopping 26 gold. I then turn down science to 0% and run on "scientist only" mode. Flight is 8 turns out and I'm at +661 gpt.

Spain & Egypt sign peace in 1480.

1480 -- The Celts sink two of my frigates & an Egyptian cavalry makes its way across Spanish holdings to my lands. Time to bribe Isabella.

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/9885/04bribingisabella.jpg (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/04bribingisabella.jpg/)

By 1490, I have reassembled by invasion force for Egyptian lands. I still need to upgrade all my galleons to transports, but I they're on the edge of Egyptian waters now. My forces look a little stouter than they did before, but wish me luck. I still haven't forgotten the massacre that was the last invasion.

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/7000/05egyptianinvasiontaket.jpg (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/05egyptianinvasiontaket.jpg/)

In just a few turns, I've rebuilt my treasury to the point that I can safely turn science spending back up. Or at least I think I can.

By 1495, WW is creeping up on me again, so I decide to make peace with Cathy. Not that I've lost a lot of units to her, but I'm not really pursuing her right now anyway. Besides, it won't be long before she makes peace with Brennus & DOWs me again.

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/586/06russianpeace.jpg (http://img694.imageshack.us/i/06russianpeace.jpg/)

For good or bad, I then sell Cathy Combustion. She'll give me Gems, her WM, 511 gold, 80 gpt, and Communism. I usually don't worry about Communism, but like all government techs, it's good trade bait & I have a city or two that might benefit from a police station. (We'll see about that, though.)

Unfortunately, I guess I had forgotten the WH that I was getting from Cathy. I'd been able to run 10% lux, but it's going to have to go back up.

I keep pounding Burdigala with arty. I'm absofreakinglutely amazed at how fast the Celts are rebuilding. Seems like every few turns, I destroy a library or temple. . .

In 1500, I found Egyptian Beachhead on exactly the same spot it stood before. I feel like the guy from Monty Python & the Holy Grail: "I built me first castle in a swamp. And it sank. So I rebuilt it. And the second one sank. So I rebuilt again. That one burnt, fell over, then sank. But the FOURTH one stayed up . . . "

Sacrifice a worker and rush a rax.
Take out saltpeter with arty.
Load extra infantry into army.
Move infantry army onto a mountain.

1505: Sacrifice a worker & rush walls.
Remember that Egypt is a Democracy. Start trying to take out luxes.

In 1505, the Celts succeed in sinking a destroyer with a frigate. I screwed up and left him exposed & wounded. I guess that's OK, because Flight comes in in 1510. Rush a few bombers so that they come off the assembly line immediately.

By the end of the production cycle, I get 3 fighters and 5 bombers in play. Time to relocate and begin that carpet-bombing I mentioned. Research goes back to "scientist only" mode so that I can continue to cash-rush bombers.

In 1525, I take down Heliopolis. I sure do like bombers and armies.

Russia and the Celts sign a peace treaty. Hmmmmmm, I seem to recall thinking this might happen.

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/5025/07cathydowsme.jpg (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/07cathydowsme.jpg/)

On the one hand, I lose my supply of gems. On the other, I get some WH from this.

In 1530, I finally, finally get Burdigala. As you can see from the picture below, it looks like a good place to pile a bunch of bombers for softening up the Celts. I raze it and put a new settler down.

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8040/08burdigalafalls.jpg (http://img198.imageshack.us/i/08burdigalafalls.jpg/)

Between 1530 and 1535, Thebes falls from size 10 to size 8. Is it possible that Cleo drafted one unit and rushed another in the same turn?!? Eventually, I see a 2/2 Rifle pop up, so I know that she drafted one.

Ordinarily, I raze cities, but this one has Smith's! I'm going to try to keep it.

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/787/09thebes.jpg (http://img22.imageshack.us/i/09thebes.jpg/)

I only lose a couple of units during the siege of Thebes, but that's enough to tip the WW scales. When I check CA2 at the end of the turn, I've got something like 30 cities preparing to riot. I wind up having to crank lux spending up to 50% and still having to hire a crapload of clowns. Unfortunately, I feel like I have an edge here that I could easily lose. I have bombers. They don't. It won't last forever, so I need to claim some land and kill some cities while I can.

In 1545, the Celts request an audience. Brennus is willing to make peace, but his treasury only consists of 3 gold and he won't pay gpt. I'll need to make peace soon, but I need to hold out another turn or so.

On the science issue, I just don't think this "scientist only" method is working for me. I leave one lone scientist at Lonescienceville, and switch all other scientists to tax collectors (with a smattering of police officers thrown in to gain some shields). I need gold. That takes me from +253 gpt to +530 gpt.

I really need to be able to concentrate my forces more than I have been, so I make peace with Brennus. He's the bigger and tougher opponent (as compared to Cleo), and while I'd really enjoy taking him down a peg, my odds of hurting Cleo are better than my odds of hurting the Celts. At least for the moment.

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/8878/10celticpeace.jpg (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/10celticpeace.jpg/)

Unfortunately, Brennus wants Flight for an Alliance vs. Cathy and I'm just not prepared to do that right now.

In 1550 AD, I raze Memphis. Unforunately, I forgot to take a screenshot. Fortunately, I remember to take one right after I burn Byblos to the ground.

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/7413/11egyptianlandscape.jpg (http://img22.imageshack.us/i/11egyptianlandscape.jpg/)

I send my forces back to heal, but not without leaving a few slaves out to distract Egyptian forces. I then accidentally hit F5. I always forget that we have a cultural advisor. . . While I'm thinking about it, I check on culture. The Celts are in the lead with over 63k. I have just over 11k. Clearly, I have to watch out for losing by culture.

Ya know, Brennus keeps leaving units in my waters. I've given him the boot order twice since making peace and he keeps agreeing to move units. I was hoping to get a little WH back, but it hasn't worked.

In 1555, Cathy tries to get sneaky on me.

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/1231/12cathyspies.jpg (http://img692.imageshack.us/i/12cathyspies.jpg/)

And out of nowhere, Brennus has 1495 gold in his treasury! Maybe it's time to sell him flight after all.

I head to the bargaining table. Brennus is offers me a deal that includes Ironclads & Democracy. I need Ironclads about as much as I need an extra hole in my head. Same goes for Demo. What I do need, though, is luxuries. I haggle, find a deal that I thought I could live with, then back out. I was just about to sell Flight to Brennus, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I want to hold this and keep rushing bombers & fighters for just as long as I can. I'll have to pass on the 1400 gold that Brennus has, but here's what we wind up with:

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/9595/13celticdeal.jpg (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/13celticdeal.jpg/)

(Oh, and by the way, I rather like this arrangement: I bomb their iron & sell them one of my extras!)

In 1565, Abydos falls. That leaves the Egyptian Empire looking like this:

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/7944/14egypt.jpg (http://img196.imageshack.us/i/14egypt.jpg/)

My daughter is bugging me to look up some cartoon character that she wants to learn to draw & I think I've made enough progress to call this a chapter. It looks like it's going to come down to me, the Russians and the Celts.

Here's the power graph:
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/5964/15powergraph1565ad.jpg (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/15powergraph1565ad.jpg/)

I may yet have to think about sneaking off the planet for the win, but we'll see. I'd still like to win this one by conquest or domination. The Spanish are sandwiched between me and the Russians, with a small border with the Egyptians. They're also under attack by the Egyptians and the Russians. The Egyptians, well, Cleo's at war with everyone but the Russians. Interestingly, there's neither a peace line nor a war line on the Foreign Advisor Chart.

Here, here's the whole picture:
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/9245/16foreignadvisor1565ad.jpg (http://img510.imageshack.us/i/16foreignadvisor1565ad.jpg/)

So that's it until next time. The two extra luxes from the Celts have really helped with WW, but obviously, I'll need to secure an alternate source before I go to war with the Celts again. I'm thinking some Spanish dyes, but I still have 4 turns of Alliance left with Isabella (against Cleo).

Anybody got any words of wisdom on slugging it out with the Celts on DG?

In 1500, I found Egyptian Beachhead on exactly the same spot it stood before. I feel like the guy from the Meaning of Life. "I built me first castle in a swamp. And it sank. So I rebuilt it. And the second one sank. So I rebuilt again. That one burnt, fell over, then sank. But the FOURTH one stayed up . . . "

That was from the Grail flick, where the King of Swamp Castle was talking to his son Alice, er, Herbert.

Thanks for the correction, CB. It's been ages since I had time to sit down and watch those.

I wanted to post more, but my wife called. It was a small household emergency, a small grease fire downstairs that she put out. So I helped fix dinner.

Anyway, it looks like you are holding your own. Egypt is spilt in two, which helps you. Russia and Celts want to dogpile on you, which isn't good. Any chance of getting Spain to declare on Celts/Russia?

Thanks, CB. Hope everything's OK at the house.

I guess the answer to your question is a resounding "yes and no." Spain is already at war with Russia and Egypt, and getting pounded pretty hard already. I had a fighter recon part of their land in one of the last turns and Mother Russia's Cossacks were hard at work at one of Izzy's largest cities. IOW, probably, but I'm not sure how much benefit there is in enlisting Izzy's aid. Besides, I have my eye on some dyes just over the border. On the other hand, if I can keep playing Russia and the Celts off each other, perhaps I can keep them in check while I take over Egyptian and then someone else's lands. I'd also like to finish securing this little Egyptian island before I make peace with Cleo.

If I want to win by Domination or Conquest, I'll have to tackle the Russians and Celts head-on eventually. We're much closer to nukes than I usually get in my Emperor games, so I'm a bit nervous. Well, nervous and eager. I have 28 bombers in play and more in production. That's enough to do significant damage, if I can concentrate my forces against one opponent. I'm still the only one with Flight, but they'll get it eventually. Well, the Celts and Russians will get it eventually. I'm not sure that the Egyptians or Spanish will ever get that far.

Reading your last post, I feel like playing civ again. Maybe after I get a proper desk.

As to advice, would need a save to make any. I doubt you need any anyway. On the nuke front, two things I do to slow that down.
1) do not build the Project
2) make it hard for them to build it.

If they start it, I try to bust every tile in the city and kill as many pop as I can. If I am within a few turns of winning, I will sabotage production to gain a turn or two. If the town is one I can get to in time, then I let them work on it, till I arrive to take it down.

If it looks like all my strategies will fail, pre ICBM's or cut Ur or Al. That works, only if they have a limited number of them.

As to advice, would need a save to make any. I doubt you need any anyway. On the nuke front, two things I do to slow that down.
1) do not build the Project
2) make it hard for them to build it.

If they start it, I try to bust every tile in the city and kill as many pop as I can. If I am within a few turns of winning, I will sabotage production to gain a turn or two. If the town is one I can get to in time, then I let them work on it, till I arrive to take it down.

If it looks like all my strategies will fail, pre ICBM's or cut Ur or Al. That works, only if they have a limited number of them.
Thanks for the advice, vmxa. Here are a couple of saves. The 1565 save is where the last chapter left off and the 1590 one is where I actually am in the game. I got a little time to play after posting the last chapter & have continued pounding on the Egyptians. Any other advice on this one would be appreciated. I'll take a SS win if I have to, but I'd really rather win by force.

Tentative plan:
1) Finish taking over Egyptian homeland. By the time that's done, they'll be unable to threaten me.
2) Take down Spain. Izzy's between me and Cathy and I can take her land on my way to Russia.
3) Continue to play the Celts and Russia off of one another.
4) Figure out which one I can tackle head-on.

Sorry it has been nearly a week and I just finished my AoI II 1.o game last night. I was going to take a break form C3C after running AoI I 3.0, The Great War and AoI II back to back. I grabbed the saves and will see, if I can offer anything.

I maintain that anyone playing above Emperor does not need any help, but some times a different perspective etc. The game took 307 hours so you can imagine I was glad to get the 66%.

Abraxis:

#1 good story, especially "Princess Bloodthirsty" giving you a hand with the Spanish war.

#2: The Reason you don't see war or peace lines between Russia and Egypt is that you don't have an Embassy with either, or, as in this case, you are at war with both of them and their Embassies are currently unavailable.

Thanks, vmxa. I may be on the right track, but this is by far the longest I've ever survived at DG, so any insight you could offer would be appreciated.

Hikaro, thanks. Yes, Princess Bloodthirsty is 6 and recently started playing Civ Revolutions. She'll DOW another civ at the drop of a hat and has no interest in making peace. Her mother says she plays like Daddy! :D

"Tentative plan:
1) Finish taking over Egyptian homeland. By the time that's done, they'll be unable to threaten me.
2) Take down Spain. Izzy's between me and Cathy and I can take her land on my way to Russia.
3) Continue to play the Celts and Russia off of one another.
4) Figure out which one I can tackle head-on."

I am not a big fan of hospitals, but should you make one have the city grow larger. To that end, I would cut the trees at Grand River. You can irrigate to gain pop. It starts with 46 shields and nets 44. You are making a bomber of 100 shields.

This means it will take 3 turns with an over run of 32. You go with infantry you get no real improvement. IOW you either need to get the net up to 45 for infantry or 50 for planes. It works fine at 40 for MA later.

So cut the trees and have a net of 40 and you take the same 3 turns. You gain a max pop of 15. As it is now, you have 27 food, so every time you gain that 14th pop, you go to starving. This will cycle over and over get 14 and drop to 13. Irrigate the cow and have 30 food.

May as well sell off the wall, university and lib. You have zero research so why pay maint? Unless you intend to go back to researching soon. I would suggest not selling, well the wall is ok, and set research at 60% and get on to the next techs.

You have no need for more money as they are not ahead in techs. I doubt they will research at your pace, especially as you take towns from them.

Owego may as well road and rail that hill and drop a mine down. Plant trees on the tundra that already has a rail. There are other tiles with no road, build one and rail all tiles that do not have a rail.

I do that to facilitate clean up of pollution and dealing with landings. You have slaves parked, may as well use them.

You may have a problem at Alexandria, if the Celts take down that worker. They could block your access to the city.

I would probably revisit all those artillery builds. I like to have 8-10 on each land mass for pinging ships or landing parties. The rest move on to the land that is being attacked. Depends on the land, but most of the time I will not use that many on the attack as I use armies.

You do not have a lot of armies, so more artillery is fine. The point is those 40 turns from now are not going to be needed. I would rather put those towns on wealth and get the cash and not increase my unit support cost.

As soon as Alexandria falls, make peace with Cleo and let her alone as you do not really need to waste time on that small island. It will not add to the total percentage by more than .5%. Let the others fight over it.

You will need to attack Brennus at some point as all of Russia is not enough to get to 66.

I am also a small navy advocate, so I would not make many destroyers. I want 4-5 to cover transports. Maybe a few to picket key lanes, but often not even that as I will use fighters to recon and bombers to sink or turn back and finally artillery, if they keep coming.

I will not use massive bombers either as I want to build attackers and settlers. As it sits now, I may change to incorporate more bombers than normal. This is due to the small number of armies.

Not sure why you have that army on the home island, put it to work. You can handle any invasion with 8 artillery and infantry and soon will have a few tanks.

You have the game won. Get a spy up with Cathy so you can see what they have. I would also go around all my towns to stream line the tile usage and reconsider what structures they have. That is not required, but I like to run lean.

Thanks, vmxa. I may be on the right track, but this is by far the longest I've ever survived at DG, so any insight you could offer would be appreciated.

Hikaro, thanks. Yes, Princess Bloodthirsty is 6 and recently started playing Civ Revolutions. She'll DOW another civ at the drop of a hat and has no interest in making peace. Her mother says she plays like Daddy! :D

Heh, when I was six, my brother and I were playing essentially a Lego version of Warhammer Fantasy type tabletop games, only with no dice, more arguing over the rules and building actual catapults out of legos to hurl lego bricks at each others' armies...

...Then again, the only video game systems out at the time were the NES and Atari 2600, and I think I saw my first ever PC: An Apple II in the elementary school library. :lol:

You guys' playing style is (generally) the completely opposite of mine... I usually don't start anything (my current story being the major exception), but boy do I finish it! (I go into a "Carthago delenda est" mode if someone attacks me without warning and for no reason... too bad you can only pillage their improvements instead of sowing the fields with salt).

Hikaro Takayama there are several ways to play, that is for sure. If you are going for domination or conquest, you have to keep moving and taking land or run out of time. The higher the level, the more units you have to defeat and the longer you delay the better their units.

I play a lot of Always War, so it is simple. You are at war at all times, with anyone you have met. You need to thin out the incoming units or get run over.

@ vmxa -- I've been debating whether Grand River should get a hospital. I'll have to open up the game to look at most of those other cities you mentioned. I wasn't planning on pursuing Cleo off of the big island. I'm not interested in her little island (islands?), basically for the reason that you mentioned. It's too big of an investment in resources for too little gain. I've kept the army at home, just because I wasn't sure just how big of an invasion the AI would mount at DG. I'm somewhat low on "home defense" troops at the moment, but I'll get some built and ship the army out.

I was planning on going back to researching. I don't know that I'll be able to finish them with cavs. Maybe if I build enough bombers . . . I think maybe it's time to go ahead and shift my forces into position for an attack on the Celts. I think Russia might be easier to take down, but if her land isn't enough to get me to 66%, I guess I'd rather tackle the Celts before they get many bombers built.

Thanks again.

@ HT -- Man, you're a young-un . . . ;) When I was six, well, I don't think there were any video games. The first home video game system I remember seeing was just called Atari, and I think I was 9. Only 1 guy I knew had one.

They will not sent more than two or three transports (galleons, whatever they have) in anyone run. I would guess Russia is a bit weak right now, so at least push them off the old Izzabella town as you can block with one tile on each side.

The timing of the attack on the Celts, is up to you, just so only one or the other is at war with you at anyone time. I did not look at rolling taxmen to beaker heads, so you may be able to drop the time from 3 to 2 turns on the current tech.

Grand River has either a hospital or Shakes as it is size 13.

You may as well push Cleo off as Brennus will try to anyway and I would prefer to not have her next to me.

Russia has, iirc, 26% of the land and you have 28%. So that is 54. You will need all of Russia and part of Celtic land or all of Celts and part of Russia. I would go ahead and take a lot more of Russia to cripple them for good.

Bombers are potential problem. You often cannot avoid them, so get flaks going up in 1 or 2 towns. I like to run 4 in towns that will be bombed. Toss up a Sam in the one under attack. In time that will trim them down. Keep the flaks to at least 4, 5 for a spare.

I do not use fighters much as they will just get killed. I may lay an airfield down and put a few fighters on air support, IF I can place it so it is safe and still protect.

If you have the Great Wall, watch out for the bug. I will normally raze the town that has it (upon capture), if I get to bomber wars. The bug allows wonders to be destroyed. If you have no wonders under fire, then no sweat.

The concern for me on the Celts over Russia is you already have a shared land mass. If you go after Brennus, you will need to invade some place. Check to see if you can cut their oil and prevent planes, in the event of war.

@ HT -- Man, you're a young-un . . . ;) When I was six, well, I don't think there were any video games. The first home video game system I remember seeing was just called Atari, and I think I was 9. Only 1 guy I knew had one.
Shoot, I remember playing Pong at a rather fancy resturant my senior year in high school (1975).

And I sold them a few years later at Radio Shack.

Then came Civilization (the board game) from Avalon Hill......

:old:

I wrote a game for a main frame that was like Trek in 1967. It was just a box with 8x8 dots with monochrome, but better than nothing. I was in the Navy at the time. It was a Univac using Ferite core for memory. I forget the amount, probably no more than 16k.

Well, now you guys are making me feel like the young-un here! By the time I was a senior in high school (1987), there were a few arcades around town, but we usually just went to a convenience store for some pinball or games.

I'm pretty sure that Grand River has a hospital. I can't imagine that I built Shake's there. For that matter, I can't imagine that I built Shake's anywhere. I know that the AI will not usually attack full-heath armies, at least not until bombers. In my Emperor & below games, the AI rarely gets to bombers, so they're not a concern. In this game, though, they'll get at least a few, so I am concerned about bombers. I'll go find Brennus' oil and see if I can cut off his supply.

I'll check and see where the Great Wall is. I didn't build it, but I don't recall who did. As for fighters, I use them almost exclusively for recon and bombing ships. I find them almost useless for bombing land targets, but they are good for finding stuff for my bombers to hit. One of the tactics that I have used in other games is to try to kill off all of the AIs ships. It doesn't build enough to mount a serious overseas invasion, but if I kill off all their ships, then their troops get stuck where I can kill them off.

All they can do now is slow you up and cause some damage. No way they stop you from winning. The biggest problem could be WW. That may not hurt to much, as you gain more and more lux.

If you can spot their bombers and hit them with yours, that is the best way to keep them from busting things up. Try to keep some flaks in the army stacks as well. It is mainly the lone army that will get chewed up by bombers and then get killed by troops as it get damaged.

The armies will be out in front, but once they capture, you can get some flaks to defend a bit. That is not going to be enough, but all I try to do is to keep taking down bombers. Soon they will only be a distraction.

One thing about your city taking (or more like razing) strategy: I try to hold onto enemy cities that I take, but, in order to "alleviate" problems with the populace, while simultaneously alleviating unit support burdens, I'll have newly captured cities build workers until they are reduced to 1 population (and re-join native workers at a rate of 1 for every 2 foreign workers I get), then re-micro the city for max growth and soon it will be populated by mostly MY citizens...

In a quick game I played as the Teutonic Order, I did just that, and by the end of the game, none of the Polish or Lithuanian cities under my control (along with a majority of Hungarian, Czech and other cities I controlled) had a single citizen belonging to their original nationality, on top of which I had over 100 workers and I wasn't paying any maintanence for ANY of them :D

Also, if an AI city is in a less-than desireable location (as often happens when I'm playing Random Map games), I'll "liquidate" the city... I.e. build workers until it's down to 2 pop, MM so it stops growing and have it build a Settler, then choose "Abandon City" when the settler gets finished....

Don't confuse what I did in AoI I or II with a std game. In AoI 1, I razed to get the workers for the most part. In AoI II I only razed to not have to defend or keep track of islands. I use any number of tactics, depends on the game and what I want to accomplish.

In a tough AW game on a 250x250 map, I raze and replace much of the time. This is due to the high flip risk. I cannot wait around reducing pop one by one or even 2 by 1. This is often the way I will play Sid games for the same reason.

Even if the game is not real tough, I may do some raze and replace, just because it is easy. Most of the time I will just do the normal capture and hold, using whatever strategy makes the most sense. Be that busting out workers/settlers or just flipping them to specialist.

Razing 40 towns in a 400+ town map, is not much. I think I razed about 60 in AoI II run. 50 or more were islands, no reason to hold them. Those scenarios have a gold bug of some kind and I was able to get millions from a number of nations. At least 2 only had 2 cities!!! I think I ended with nearly 8 mill in gold in II.

I tend to not want to bother managing newly captured towns at the point I have a few hundred towns. There is no need to convert them, just flip them to specialist or combat replace the dump.

In a massive map (250x250 or better), I will try to keep a supply of settlers to replace any town that looks like trouble or is poorly placed. Those maps I will probably have 30 opponents. In that scenario, you soon get to 512 town limit. This means lots of land will never in any towns fat cross.

I may leave a very large continent empty, as no one will be able to plant a new town due to the limit.

I have to admit that I raze and replace quite a bit. I get lots of slaves in the early game that way, and then by mid game, I don't want to spare the units required to prevent flips. Unless a city has a useful Wonder, or I have its civ on the brink of extinction, I usually just raze it. The AI also has a nasty habit of building on top of cows and wheat. I don't know that it's really necessary to raze as much as I do at the levels at which I play, but I don't really want to have to leave bunches of units in a city to prevent flips while MMing them down to size. I'd rather have my troops out taking down towns. In fact, sometimes, I'll keep a city just long enough to use its rails to move my troops further down the line, then abandon it.

I usually don't have problem with flipping, but that's mainly due to the fact that, in most games, my culture is at least twice as high as anybody else's.... And in the games where my culture is LOWER (read: Medieval Mod II), I usually have enough troops in recently-captured cities to prevent flipping, mainly due to the fact that I use said cities as staging points for my next phase of expansion..... :evil: (not to mention that in Embryodead's mods, cash is hard to come by and if you don't want to be stuck doing min-science runs the whole game and be WAAAAY behind everyone else, you gotta take every advantage you can, including borrowing a page from the "Supreme Nationalist" variant's strategy guide...)

Granted, using a builder style tends to be a bit slower at initial expansion than most of the AI, but I can usually get at least 10 cities on a small-size map (my favorite size since the games don't take forever to play), then use the basic n-City Challenge strategies until someone is dumb enough to declare war on me or I have an opportunity to take over one of my neighbors...

I do not wish to be rude, but it sounds to me like you play easy games.

Frankly when someone tells me they have twice the culture, I presume they are playing medium (emperor) or lower games. I will not have even half the AI's culture in huge Sid map, just is not going to happen. They will build 160 shields cathedrals for 64 shields. fact is, I will not have twice anyone's culture in any game, there is no point to that.

You are not going to match them, they will have them up in even pop 2 or 3 towns very quickly. I will probably not even have a temple in more than a few core towns the whole game. Maybe a lib in the better places. Late in the game, yes I may slap in a cathedral in the best city or 2. By them I already am running over the map.

The same for most any AW game I would be involved in playing. I may play some builder in an SG at emperor, but you can do anything you like at that level.

The very first Sid continents game I played years ago, I lost just as I had taken half the world, because of culture. I forgot about it and the top dog owned nearly all the remaining land and when I killed off the next to last civ, the double and over the max culture kicked in and game over.

I am not trying to say anything about relative skills, only that when I hear having culture superiority, I just figure it is not a hard game.

Try AWE on 250x250 pan map with 30 others and let me know how you have twice their culture, let alone AWDG.

I cannot speak to any mods as I do not use them. Most distort the game and any distortion will tend to favor the human as they can adapt.

No problem... I DO play on Emperor/lower (Monarch actually), because I preferr to play on a LEVEL field, and the only difference, really is that the Computer is MORE of a Cheating Bastard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheComputerIsACheatingBastard) than usual, requiring you to uber-micromanage every single city you have every single turn so that you don't waste a single shield or food....

I don't consider that fun, in fact, since I work for the government, that is LITERALLY entirely too much like work. :lol: Monarch and Emperor are a good even challenge without the AI cheating like crazy... The AI cheating has been one of my longest-running pet peeves in any video game (starting with the Atari 2600), and I don't find getting creamed by the AI who gets 20 free units per turn just for sitting around scratching their buts, never has ANY war weariness or happiness problems, etc to be any fun.

Ditto for waging war... I've seen too much REAL war to want to declare war for no reason even in a game, which is why I generally win with Culture or Space Race victories... My few domination victories have all been the result of "brushing off sparks that landed on me" as the old Japanese saying goes....

Again, AW is not fun to me, because I prefer the building and exploration aspects much more... Granted, My AoI game has been a blast, but I was only able to get myself in to the "warmonger" mode by thinking of it as Giving The Evil Imperialist Bastards What They Deserve (yes, that comes with capitalization) and the fact that that was the only option I had.

But, that's just the way I roll.. I don't have TIME to mess with the kind of annoying, micro-management Hell that DG, Deity and Sid are, and don't enjoy that one bit anyways.... If you're that kind of masochist, then go for it, but I'm not.

To me Monarch is not a challenge and neither is Emperor. At least do not casually talking about flipping in a thread where the player ask for advice and is playing Demi God.

The AI does not cheat. You already know the rules, so it is not cheating for them to have a discount or extra starting units. They need the help to have any chance or give any challenge.

It is the same as if you where to play straight pool or 3 cushion billiards and I was to give you some points on the line to start the game. You would not be cheating me, it was part of the ground rules.

When I spot someone 25 points in a game to 100 and they beat me 100 to 90, they did not cheat. Now, if you move the que ball, while I was not looking, that would be cheating. As to what is fun, that is subjective. Some enjoy being whipped. I say knock yourself out.

BTW as I know you are fine with RM units in AoI, I do not understand the micro managing complaint. Moving 4 or 5,000 RM units is not easier than checking on towns from time to time. Both are tedious, but I had to put more effort into the RM than management.

To me Monarch is not a challenge and neither is Emperor. At least do not casually talking about flipping in a thread where the player ask for advice and is playing Demi God.

Well, that is just your opinion... I find them to be too frustrating after a stressful day at work when I just want to unwind a bit... What you call a "challenge" I call extreme masochism.... If you want to beat yourself up, go for it, but I don't.

The AI does not cheat. You already know the rules, so it is not cheating for them to have a discount or extra starting units. They need the help to have any chance or give any challenge.

Again, merely an opinion.

It is the same as if you where to play straight pool or 3 cushion billiards and I was to give you some points on the line to start the game. You would not be cheating me, it was part of the ground rules.

When I spot someone 25 points in a game to 100 and they beat me 100 to 90, they did not cheat. Now, if you move the que ball, while I was not looking, that would be cheating. As to what is fun, that is subjective. Some enjoy being whipped. I say knock yourself out.

I disagree... I consider playing with a handicap to be cheating, and I will never accept any game where I'm GIVEN a handicap because, IMO, the only thing you learn from that is how to play with a handicap... I want to learn how to play for real.

Before you get on how playing at higher end difficulties makes you better etc, etc, I've always done quite well in multiplayer games (as a matter of fact, I had to bail my one friend out, a guy who normally played DEITY in CIV II when the French invaded him...)

As for how the AI Cheats:

On ALL difficulty levels:

- It knows where ALL the resources are
- It knows the entire map from turn #1
- It knows the number and location of all your troops
- It knows what all your cities are producing (Seriously, these two are why I think the AI planting spies is merely to give the ILLUSION that they actually need to do that)
- The random number generator is "loaded" in their favor: I.e. you have a unit that has the same attack strength as their unit's defense strength, the same experience levels and you attack them on open ground with no rivers, and they will win 75% of the time (ditto goes for if you're defending and they are attacking)... If you're unit is superior, the odds of them winning will drop to maybe 50% and if you're unit is inferior, they will win 90% of the time.

...And that does not include the fact that on difficulty levels above chieftain, the AI gets free units, production bonuses and doesn't have to worry about little things like unit support costs or happiness.

That is why I consider using every exploit known to man (including save scumming), short of actually using cheat codes, to be fair game because the AI cheats like that.

BTW as I know you are fine with RM units in AoI, I do not understand the micro managing complaint. Moving 4 or 5,000 RM units is not easier than checking on towns from time to time. Both are tedious, but I had to put more effort into the RM than management.

Actually, it's quite simple: All units (except for the 3 MP units I have in every city) are "stored" in massive stacks for easy location and movement (Move All Units In Stack command is your FRIEND)... As a matter of fact, when I went to war with Germany, I had a SINGLE STACK of units in Europe that had over 160 REGULAR units... I had stacks of 50+ artillery also staged in strategic locations as well as other unit stacks... No micromanaging there... Rather, that is a prime example of MACRO-managing and one of the things I enjoy about Civ III.

What I was talking about is going through every city every single turn to make sure that they don't "waste" a single piece of food or shield (i.e. you're going to complete your granary next turn, and it only requires 10 shields to complete but you're raking in 11 shields per turn, so you have to MM until you get exactly 10 shields for that turn)... IMO, Firaxis SHOULD have included a "rollover" system, but this is just another example of Civ III's piss-poor programming.

"Hikaro Takayama"

VMXA:
The AI does not cheat. You already know the rules, so it is not cheating for them to have a discount or extra starting units. They need the help to have any chance or give any challenge.

"Again, merely an opinion."

Actually you are wrong. It is not an opinion. Here is the definition of cheat:
1. to defraud; swindle: He cheated her out of her inheritance.
2. to deceive; influence by fraud: He cheated us into believing him a hero.
3. to elude; deprive of something expected: He cheated the law by suicide.

How does any of the things you mention match the definition? They don't, hence not cheating.

Handicap:
3. any disadvantage that makes success more difficult

"I disagree... I consider playing with a handicap to be cheating, and I will never accept any game where I'm GIVEN a handicap because, IMO, the only thing you learn from that is how to play with a handicap... I want to learn how to play for real."

How old are you? Sorry, but that is childish. You want to learn to play 3 cushion billiards better, better get lessons or play with better players. This is true for many things.

"Before you get on how playing at higher end difficulties makes you better etc, etc, I've always done quite well in multiplayer games (as a matter of fact, I had to bail my one friend out, a guy who normally played DEITY in CIV II when the French invaded him...)"

I do not see where I said anything about being better. I am fairly sure I have not said I was better than anyone. Just for the record Civ II was a very easy game to beat at deity. It had too many flaws.

"As for how the AI Cheats:

On ALL difficulty levels:

- It knows where ALL the resources are
- It knows the entire map from turn #1
- It knows the number and location of all your troops
- It knows what all your cities are producing (Seriously, these two are why I think the AI planting spies is merely to give the ILLUSION that they actually need to do that)"

These are all well known handicaps. BTW I got a lot of laughs in AoI I and II as the AI would steal my plans. Talk about a waste of money. They already know my plans.


"- The random number generator is "loaded" in their favor: I.e. you have a unit that has the same attack strength as their unit's defense strength, the same experience levels and you attack them on open ground with no rivers, and they will win 75% of the time (ditto goes for if you're defending and they are attacking)... If you're unit is superior, the odds of them winning will drop to maybe 50% and if you're unit is inferior, they will win 90% of the time."

This is false. I have and have seen posted in many SG's events where things went crazy well for the human. I think I had one in the last SG, where a units had 1 HP and went on to defeat 3 attackers. It means nothing either way. We just do not see enough combat to determine any deviation from standards.

"...And that does not include the fact that on difficulty levels above chieftain, the AI gets free units, production bonuses and doesn't have to worry about little things like unit support costs or happiness."

This is also false. The reality is that the human gets help in that the AI suffers a penalty below Regent. The AI gets no discount or free units at Regent or lower. Its first discount is 10% at Monarch. They do have an AI to AI trade break at all levels.

"That is why I consider using every exploit known to man (including save scumming), short of actually using cheat codes, to be fair game because the AI cheats like that."

no comment

"What I was talking about is going through every city every single turn to make sure that they don't "waste" a single piece of food or shield (i.e. you're going to complete your granary next turn, and it only requires 10 shields to complete but you're raking in 11 shields per turn, so you have to MM until you get exactly 10 shields for that turn)... IMO, Firaxis SHOULD have included a "rollover" system, but this is just another example of Civ III's piss-poor programming."

What can I say. I do not concern myself with overflow of shields that much. I will in the early turns, but not for long. It is good enough to keep the citizens on improved tiles.

In an SG, I will make one pass per set to manage everything. If I was concerned about scores, that would be different. The more you are able and willing to put into management the better, but it is not required for each turn.

I hope I have cleared my prior comments up a bit.

Well, I guess this is just down to different strokes for different folks...

The reason I don't play ANY game with a handicap (even if I'm beginning) is this: If I lose, I can at least say that I lost fair and square: Ditto if I somehow win.... WITH the handicap, if I lose, that just completely discourages me because I was so pathetic that I couldn't win even when my opponent was going easy on me, and conversely I get no satisfaction out of winning, because my opponent was going easy on me.

You might find that a bit skewed, but it's the kind of attitude that enabled me to rise from being born into a household that couldn't afford a simple TELEPHONE until I was in High School to working in a high-paying US Government tech job....

It's also why, in free-sparing when I had time to take Tae Kwon Do that I'd go all-out with the Black Belts when I'm only a Green Belt... The thing is that even though I'd get whomped, the black belts would usually compliment me for putting up a good fight.

Egro, you CAN learn to do something better by playing better opponents WITHOUT the handicaps.

You calling me childish for that would be like me saying that you're one of those Starcraft Elitists who insist that playing anything less than the hardest difficulty or using any other tactic besides Zerg Rushing is for chumps (and they are one of the biggest reasons I stopped playing Starcraft).

As for some of your other points: I've been playing this game since it came out, and I've NEVER had any case where I had a 1 HP unit defeat a whole stack of AI units... I've had the REVERSE happen all the time (see my AoI story for confirmation of this fact)... I don't know if it's just that I'm unlucky or what, but those results are based on the averages of playing for the past 8 years.

...As a matter of fact, I didn't get my first MGL UNTIL AFTER CONQUESTS WAS RELEASED!!! And that was with "leader fishing" every elite unit I had... Which, 9 times out of 10 resulted in said elite unit getting pwned by an obsolete REGULAR unit with 1 HP. :lol: So don't try and tell me the RNG is NOT loaded, because it is... The results I've observed are far too consisted to be otherwise.

I also get a kick out of the AI stealing (or attempting) to steal troop movements or plant spies, because they don't need either to know where all troops are at all times.

Finally, I don't think Monarch is EASY... Monarch is Mid-range... CHEIFTAIN and WARLORD are EASY... Regent, Monarch and Emperor are MEDIUM, Demigod and Deity are HARD and Sid is Suicidal, but that's just my take on it.

As for the part where you are nit-picking my comment about the difficulty levels: First, look up the word "Hyperbole" in the dictionary, particularly the definition in the literary (as opposed to mathematical) usage of the word:

Hyperbole: n: Deliberate exaggeration in a statement to emphasize a point.

I'm quite well aware of the ins and outs of AI bonuses and penalties per difficulty level... After all, I've only been modding this game for the past seven years....

Aaaaaannnnndddd, a quick update on the game at hand . . .

I got in a few turns yesterday and here's the update:

I found the Great Wall. It's in Moscow.
I found the sources of oil. The Russians have 2. The Celts have 0.
I shipped 3-4 cav armies to that land of mine that borders the Spanish.
I shipped more workers & settlers to that land, as well.
I declined a peace offer by the Russians.
I DOW'd the Spanish, kicked them off that piece of land, secured their dyes and closed off one of the two chokepoints leading from Russia to it, all in 1620 AD.
the other chokepoint is almost closed and will be completely closed soon.
I still need to double-check to make sure that my conquered cities in what is now Old Spain (Murcia, Valencia and Barcelona) aren't sitting on top of cows (or anything equally silly).

Russia has 2 Oil, Celts zero, until they trade.

Can you deny any Oil to Russia?

Both are building bombers, so Cathy is already selling Brennus oil. I was able to unhook one of Cathy's supplies, so I don't think Brennus will be able to build any more bombers until he secures another source. The only way I can deny those sources to Russia is to take them from her. I'm comfortable with that.

If I followed what you said, Russia has 2 oil tiles and is trading one to Celts. Then you cut one. That would mean Russia is without oil, until she breaks the deal. All builds started will be able to complete. I got burned by that is games where they were making ICBM's. 10 turns later an ICBM comes flying my way. ouch.

You followed it correctly. I knew that already-started builds would complete, but my assumption was that cutting the second source of oil would break the deal, denying oil to Brennus, not to Cathy. That's interesting. If the shoe were on the other foot, and I were trading one of my two sources of a resource or lux and the second got cut, would that destroy my reputation? Or would I have to go without the resource/lux?

Aaaaaannnnndddd, a quick update on the game at hand . . .

I got in a few turns yesterday and here's the update:

I found the Great Wall. It's in Moscow.
I found the sources of oil. The Russians have 2. The Celts have 0.
I shipped 3-4 cav armies to that land of mine that borders the Spanish.
I shipped more workers & settlers to that land, as well.
I declined a peace offer by the Russians.
I DOW'd the Spanish, kicked them off that piece of land, secured their dyes and closed off one of the two chokepoints leading from Russia to it, all in 1620 AD.
the other chokepoint is almost closed and will be completely closed soon.
I still need to double-check to make sure that my conquered cities in what is now Old Spain (Murcia, Valencia and Barcelona) aren't sitting on top of cows (or anything equally silly).


Sorry about ranting in your thread....

A few thoughts.. I'm not sure if this was a fluke, but in one of my Final Fantasy mod games, when I bombarded a city that had a Great Wonder with the EXACT SAME stats as the Great Wall, it got blowed up, so that may be something to keep in mind. (basically it got blown up like a wall would because, IIRC, it had a "bombard def" value, like a wall)

I take it you're on your way to grab the oil (or at least pillage and crater the land its on so that they can't use it) ;)

Also, VXMA is correct... I've had a trade deal when I had 2 of a resource and either the Barbs or one of the AI factions (I forget which, right now) pillaged the tile one of them was on and I no longer could build units requiring said resources... Ditto for when a tile went from being in my cultural influence to one of the AI city's Cultural Influence....

These Chokepoints: Are they 1-tile isthmuses? I just LOVE 1-tile isthmuses (Panama Canal anyone? XD)

I also hate in when the AI settles on top of good bonus resources. >:(

If the shoe were on the other foot, and I were trading one of my two sources of a resource or lux and the second got cut, would that destroy my reputation? Or would I have to go without the resource/lux?

No, because you would have 1 of the item and it would still be going to that nation. You would be without the resource or lux.

A few thoughts.. I'm not sure if this was a fluke, but in one of my Final Fantasy mod games, when I bombarded a city that had a Great Wonder with the EXACT SAME stats as the Great Wall, it got blowed up, so that may be something to keep in mind. (basically it got blown up like a wall would because, IIRC, it had a "bombard def" value, like a wall)

No, that is not a fluke but it is a known bug. It only happens when bombarding a city and seems to occur most often with the Great Wall. It seems the 'which building got destroyed' coding does not exclude Great Wonders, but that is about all I recall on it.

EDIT:
Here is a thread that deals with it: Destroying the Great Wall (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=334233).

That is why Aabraxan mentioned it the first place as I had reminded him of this bug earlier. I am sure he knew it, but it does not always come to mind. Especially for me as I seldom am in a position to capture anyway. He was just telling me where he found it. I did not remember the details either, just that you could have other wonders destroyed. If you lost Sun's that way, it would hurt a little.

If you lost Sun's that way, it would hurt a little.

Yes, yes it would! That's why I'm careful to ONLY bombard until red-lined units show up... I think I can safely conclude that, aside from "collateral damage" units and aircraft, artillery bombardment won't start destroying buildings until all units have been red-lined (unless, of course they have a "Bombard Def" value, in which case they'll get blown up first, just like how walls have to be blown up first in order to start damaging units in the town)... This is based on massive amounts of "research" in the AoI scenario. :mischief:

Collateral Damage units and Aircraft, on the other hand, all bets are off... Collateral Damage units will always have a chance of destroying structures even if they're just attacking, and aircraft bombardment seems to be treated like it has the "Collateral Damage" flag selected.

...That's why I only use non-collateral damage land and ship artillery to soften up a city that has a wonder I want to keep.....

...Of course by this point in the game, The Great Wall is useless, so I don't know why you'd care about it getting destroyed anyways.:confused:

OK. I've read up on the Great Wall Bug. I've never actually had this bug crop up in my games, so here's my question: Can any Great Wonder be destroyed? Or only the Great Wall? Or any Wonder as long as the Great Wall is in existence? I thought that the GWB only involved the Gr Wall, but it sounds like other Great Wonders can be destroyed, as well.

The only other Wonder that interests me at Moscow is The Pyramids. That would be nice for the developing specialist farms on this continent, but hardly critical.

Other Wonders that interest me (anywhere, that I can think of) at this point are Leo's and Sun's. The Celts own both. Leo's is somewhat less interesting because I don't really expect to be upgrading that many units between now and the end of the game. Sun's could make conquering the Celts more difficult, but lethal bombard solves some of that problem. I'd like to have it for healing on the Celtic homeland, but I don't think it's vital to success.

Testing my memory a bit here, which is always risky, I am pretty sure that the only danger is that you have the GW and some other wonder in the same city. In that case you can lose any wonder in the place.

I only recall having one of my wonders destroyed from bombardment and I think the GW was in that town. It was a long time ago, so I may well be confusing things. It would be rare for me as I would likely need to raze the town that had the GW and not have that issue.

In a game where I was able and did build the GW, they would not get into a position to bomb the town.

Giving that all the land is on islands, any that are limited to their land mass are going to be of limited value.

That makes sense. Given that it's known as the Great Wall Bug, I didn't really expect any Great Wonder to be vulnerable at any time. I also figured that I would have destroyed at least one Great Wonder in all of my games, if that were the case.

Agreed on the value of Wonders limited to a landmass. My interest in Sun's is just for the instant barracks. I expect to have the cash to rush them, but having them instantly would still be nice.

Chapter 15: Claim-jumping Cleopatra & Eradicating Isabella

In 1570 AD, Pi-Ramses falls and Mauch Chunk 2 is founded. Also, Spain and Russia sign a peace treaty.

1575 -- I raze El-Amana. I hope to have Egypt banished from this island soon.

I also trade Electronics to Isabella for 28 gold and 4 workers that have been hiding in her capital for decades. I've got a fair number of slaves (around 100), but I don't want Cathy to get them when Barcelona falls.

In 1575, the Celts learn Flight. They're down to zero gold, so I suspect that they may have bought it from the Russians. I have seen neither Russian nor Celtic planes, so I cannot confirm this yet.

1580 -- I burn Giza and Elephantine. I also see Celtic boats roaming around. I think they're looking for open spots to land. I have ~20 settlers who will land in the next turn. Hopefully, I can fend off the Celts from landing until I get settlers into place. Being able to grab this whole island for myself sure would be nice.

1585 -- I trash a few more Egyptian cities and the island is almost mine. My settlers landed this turn, but I won't be able to get them in place as fast as I'd like. I see Celts snooping around, looking for homesteads & resources and there's oil here. Thinking that the Egyptians aren't much of a threat any more, I build a awall along the eastern edge of this island to prevent the Celts from dropping a settler off.

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/8457/01wallalongegypt.jpg (http://img29.imageshack.us/i/01wallalongegypt.jpg/)

In 1585, I again catch Catherine attempting to plant a spy in my capitol. Isabella also tries to renegotiate the alliance against the Egyptians, but I decide to cancel it. Cleo has one city left on her home island, and she won't have that for much longer.

In 1590, I attempt to plant my own spy. Czarina Catherine is not pleased. I know this because she catches and kills my spy. Drat.

Interestingly, I find Celtic units on Egyptian soil. They've been at war for a while, so I guess I should have expected it. I've been providing air support to Spanish cities by bombing nearby Russian units. IOW, ones that were about to attack Spanish cities. I have the capability to bomb the Egyptian city above into smithereens, but I think I'd rather let the Celts work for it just a little. They've got cavs, guerillas and infantry and the Egyptians have a rifle on top. I don't think the contest will last long, but I don't care to use my resources to help the Celts. Instead, I think I'll go about my business of settling this island and preparing troops for the next war. I'm guessing that it will be either Iroquois-Spanish or Iroquois-Russian. It's a sad day for Isabella, because I think the shortest route to Moscow runs straight through Barcelona.

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/4212/02celtsinegypt.jpg (http://img403.imageshack.us/i/02celtsinegypt.jpg/)

In 1590, with the Egyptians mostly kicked off of their home island, I succeed in putting down 5 or 6 new cities. As much as I'd like a nice, orderly CxC with river placement, at this level, I feel like getting towns down RIGHT NOW is more important. Here's what's left of the Egyptian homeland.

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1782/03oldegypt1590ad.jpg (http://img37.imageshack.us/i/03oldegypt1590ad.jpg/)

-----------------------------------------------------------
1590 AD:

Ok. I'm back after about a week off from the game. I've gotten some advice from vmxa, for which I am grateful. I've reviewed his advice, and do the following before ever hitting enter:

1) Visit Grand River. It's 1 turn from completing a bomber, so I don't want to chop the forest and waste the shields. I'll do that on the next turn.
2) Rail and mine the tundra tile at Owego.
3) Revisit some builds, swapping some arty to settlers where I can do so without wasting shields, or at least without wasting many. Rush a couple of cavs. Save enough gold to rush the army at Aabraxa on the next turn. Rush some arty & swap some arty to flak.
4) Locate the Great Wall. It's at Moscow.
5) Check to see if Brennus and Cathy have oil. Cathy has 2. Brennus has 0. Brennus is buying something from Cathy & I cannot offer to sell him oil, so I suspect that's what he's buying from Cathy.

OK.
Military check: Done
Diplo Check: Done
Trade Check: Done.

Hit enter!

The Celts take Alexandria. As I have 14 turn of trade left with Brennus, I guess I'm stuck with a Celtic neighbor, unless I want to burn my reputation. I don't think it's quite time to be that cavalier about my rep, so I'll just deal with having that neighbor for a while. Besides, I'm getting 2 luxes in the trade.

A Russian bomber attacks my cruiser. OK. No doubt about it. The AI's building bombers.

Rush the army at Aabraxa.

Load up all my settlers for transport to the upcoming war with Spain.

Chop the forest at Grand River, water the cow, swap the specialist to a CE so that I can build an airport. I don't build many airports, but if I get to jet fighters, I want to be able to upgrade my fighters somewhere.

Continue railing any unrailed tiles on my main continent.

Build another airfield outside Burdigala.

Road, mine & rail the hill outside Owego. That takes it from 3-4 net shields and drops the time on the destroyer from 15 to 12 turns. Heck, Owego may actually turn out to be aqueduct-worthy before this is all over.

Dial up Cleo for peace. She's been kicked off her main island and no longer poses a thread. She has 3 cities in her list, so a total of 4. The AI never ceases to amaze me in its sheer tenacity at hanging on to government techs. Cleo has only 2 techs that she could give up for peace: Democracy & Fascism. She'll give me 2 of her 3 cities for peace, but will not give up either government tech. I get 2 of her 3 cities (Almeria and Leon), 40 gold and 8 gpt for peace from Cleo. I don't want the cities, so I sell off the improvements. Then I give Leon back to the Spanish. It's a bazillion miles from their territory, so it will be fully corrupt. I seem to recall their being some deal about abandoning cities containing foreigners, but I can't recall what it is. Then I decide that Almeria wasn't really worth taking. However, it's on Spanish ground and a former Spanish city, so I don't really want to give it to them. I give it back to Cleo.

Swap tax collectors to scientists. Research on Mass production drops from 34 turns to 5. Crank science to 50% for Mass Production in 2 at -75 gpt. Double-check diplo & then make sure that I don't have any troops in Spanish territory.

Looks like I'm ready for war on Spain! Oh, wait, I don't have my armies over there, so it'll be a while longer. . . . Drat.

On the IBT, the Russians take down one of my cruisers and one of my Destroyers.

That's OK. IN 1600, I take out one of their sources of oil. Nyah, nyah nyah, nyahnyah, nyah!

By the end of 1600, I have resettled almost all of Old Egypt. I have claimed another oil source and another iron. Not that I can use more than one at a time, but I can deny them to the AIs.

On the IBT, the Egyptians send one Rifle and one Guerilla to try to retake Alexandria. It's unsuccessful. Three Russian bombers hit one of my ships. The ship survives and takes down one of their bombers. Mass Production comes in. I set it for 6 turns, just so that I can keep some positive cash flow coming. At 5 turns, I'm in negative gpt. As I only have 435 in the bank, I'd rather keep building my treasury. That way I can rush armies from time to time.

On the IBT after 1605, I see 4 Celtic bombers sink an Egyptian ship. Looks like they're based in Old Egypt. Also, the Russians request an audience. Sure, I'll listen. Cathy wants a PT and she's got ~1400 gold in her treasury. She's also got Demo, Ironclads, and Fascism, none of which I need. Looks like she'll give me ~250 gold for peace. No, thanks. I think I'm better served by staying at war with her. Spain shouldn't take long to wipe out, and then I'm on to take some Russian cities.

Unfortunately, as soon as I decline peace, she sinks a couple more of my boats. I will say this for DG: The AI does a much better job of developing its navy that I've ever seen at Emp.

I do a little tile-juggling and get Grand River up to 46 spt. So I guess I could build infantry here, but I've lost a few boats lately, so I'm going to go ahead and build a battleship.

In 1620, I've landed about 5 armies on the same landmass as the Spanish (or they're within range to unload in port this turn). I attempt to plant a spy, but it's unsuccessful. Nonetheless I DOW the Spanish. Unfortunately, I forgot to take a screenshot.

By the end of 1620, though, Old Spain is looking a little purplish:

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/4438/03oldspain1620ad.jpg (http://img248.imageshack.us/i/03oldspain1620ad.jpg/)

In the Year of our Lord, one thousand, six hundred and twenty, I took Barcelona, I took Murcia, I took Valencia, and I secured a native source of dyes. (What's funny is that while I was out taking Murcia in C3C, Princess Bloodthirsty was busy taking Madrid in Civ Rev. Bad day for Spaniards at the Aabraxan household.) I have thirty some-odd bombers and four cav armies on the same continent with the Russians. I've kicked the Spanish off of it, so I think it's time to go beat on some Russians.

I continue railing Old Spain, and getting units into place to continue my campaign against the Russians. In 1625 AD, the Egyptians cease to be.

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/1267/04egyptiansdestroyed.jpg (http://img16.imageshack.us/i/04egyptiansdestroyed.jpg/)

In 1630, a misclick sends one of my cav armies up against a Russian Infantry sitting on a mountain fortress. I win, but . . . ouch.

I also keep trying to get to the other Russian oil source, but they keep bombing my ships. They've sunk enough that I'm worried about WW, so I've decided to pull my ships back. I'll just have to go overland to get to it.

In 1630, Motorized Transportation comes in & I enter a new age. I set tech for fission so that I can find the uranium. Besides, I might want to prebuild the UN to deny it to the AI.

1635 -- Also, I finally get Grand River trimmed out to netting an even 45 spt -- two-turn infantry with zero waste.

In 1640, I try, . . . again . . . to plant a spy in Russia. AGAIN, it's unsuccessful.

One last check with the Military Advisor before signing off:

Against Spain, I'm strong.
Against Russia, I'm strong.
Against the Celts, I'm weak.

By 1655, my push against the Russians is in full swing and I even feel confident enough to spare a cav army to send against the Spanish. The result:

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/3706/05spanishdestroyed.jpg (http://img264.imageshack.us/i/05spanishdestroyed.jpg/)

I've begun to make some progress against the Russians. In 1655, I needed to let my armies heal a little, so I did some creative carpet-bombing on the Russians. I've put red dots where the Russians have oil and saltpeter. I've cut their roads along the pink like shown here. That will slow down their units and cut oil to their productive cities, assuming they're still selling oil to Brennus. I haven't checked on that in a bit. I've focused on pushing into the Russian core, largely leaving the towns to the southeast alone. I'll take care of them after I've dealt with those cites that can actually produce something dangerous.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/9917/06russianempire1655.jpg (http://img504.imageshack.us/i/06russianempire1655.jpg/)

My trades with the Celts will expire next turn, so we'll just have to see if they want to renegotiate. The Russians are slim on luxuries, so I'd sure like to have the Celt ones, but I still need to go beat up Brennus at some point.

I have attached the save, just in case anybody cares to look at this more closely.

Did you switch graphics or am I confused again. The screens look different than I recalled. Well as McFadden & Whitehead sang "Ain't no stopping us now". You are looking good.

If you expect some big battle on the Celt land, you could research Computers and just get a pre going for the UN for protection. I just love to have MI units to free up my defense. Don't need to use armies to cover everything.

Looking good!

:woohoo:

Thanks, guys. I haven't switched graphics, but I am considering some new mines in the near future. I've got Grand River working on Infantry, which I'm stockpiling near Aabraxa with a tentative eye to upgrading to Mech Inf once I get Computers. I'm also going to get a prebuild going on the UN so that I can deny a diplo victory to the AI.

Checklist:
Kill Russians
Build UN
Locate Uranium
Claim Uranium
Research Mech Inf & build some
Start down path to Modern Armor
Kill Celts

That sounds like a reasonable plan, doesn't it?

I especially like the parts about killing the Russians and the Celts.

Somehow, I'm not surprised. :lol:

I got some time to play on a little further today. I cleared a fair amount of land out. Naturally, Brennus started sending out settlers. Then my lux deals with him ended. So I made peace with Cathy and am getting units into position for DOWing Brennus. I may or may not ever totally kill off either the Russians or the Celts in this one, but I think I'll kill lots of both before this is through.

Good giref! ICS much lately?! :lol: (referring to that pic of the former Egyptian Island... Yes, I know you did it to max out the number of armies you can build but still....)

Looks like this game's pretty much over but for the curb-stomping. ;)

:lol: Yeah, my tendency to ICS in games goes way, way back. Don't guess it shows any signs of letting up, either. :lol:

Chapter 16: Poking the Russian Bear

I just finished posting Chapter 15, but Mrs. Aabraxan is busy writing on her computer, so I have a little spare time in which to continue pounding on Cathy's cities. The only really risky thing that I can see right now is that Cathy has Amphibious Warfare. In theory, there are lots of cities she could attack with Marines. Fortunately, I don't think she'll be able to build them fast enough to save herself.

1660 AD:
Jaen is destroyed.

At the end of that turn, the Celts decide they don't like my stuff any more.

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/2622/01celticdealsend.jpg (http://img692.imageshack.us/i/01celticdealsend.jpg/)

Unfortunately, I'm still not quite ready for war with the Celts. Their time is coming, but my units are not yet positioned to deal with him. I'll just let all my deals with him expire.

In 1665, I take Omsk. As I think we all know, I'm a big Raze & Replace kind of guy, but Omsk will provide a good staging area for taking down the rest of the Russian empire, assuming I can hold it that long. And my goodness, in 1655, I actually get to see the Russians use an artillery piece offensively. Not very well, mind you, but offensively. They used one to ping a ship of mine that was just off their coast! I'm impressed.

Now that I've claimed one of Russia's oil sources by Omsk, the F4 screen still shows an active trade between Russia and the Celts. I can only assume that it's oil. Maybe something else is being sold, as well.

And DAGNABBIT! On the IBT after 1655, a Russian Infantry attacks a 4 unit cav army with ~10 health that's sitting in Omsk. Now, I wouldn't ordinarily leave an army in a city, but cavs were the only other things I had handy and they're terrible defenders. Apparently, so was my cav army! The infantry KILLED IT! Snazzinfrazzin' . . .

Anyway . . .

Now, as you might imagine, the Celts are drawn to all this open space like flies to honey. There's just no way for me to block them off from all possible approaches. I'm gonna hafta fight . . . and you know that just breaks my heart.

Now, I'd much rather have them DOW me and this may seem a little sneaky, but I've trapped a couple of Celts in my lands.

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/9809/02trappedcelts.jpg (http://img692.imageshack.us/i/02trappedcelts.jpg/)

Let's see what happens when I give them the boot order.

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/78/03celtsnodow.jpg (http://img692.imageshack.us/i/03celtsnodow.jpg/)

Well, that totally backfired. Not only did the Celts not DOW, they teleported to open ground!
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5240/04teleportedcelts.jpg (http://img33.imageshack.us/i/04teleportedcelts.jpg/)

Fortunately, I have a settler hiding under that Infantry Army, so I just drop a city. But then it teleports them AGAIN! (I didn't feel like taking a screenshot.) Ah, well, guess I'll just have to DOW them. Before doing so, I attempt to plant a spy. Apparently, my spies suck. Caught, again.

You know, it's 1670 now, but I think I'll wait a turn or two to get my forces in order before invading the Celts. I go check with Cathy to see what she'll give for peace. Did I mention that the AI hangs onto government techs with a death grip? She won't give me a single tech, and will only pay about 650 gold. Nonetheless, I think it's time to make some peace. I feel like my war machine is leaning. This is the feeling that I get when I'm almost overextended going after one enemy, at the cost of leaving myself exposed to a second one. I have a very long line of towns leading from my land to Omsk. That's dangerous. Oh, and now that I think about it, I probably need to put a second airfield outside of Omsk's 9 tiles, just in case it flips.

So I make peace with Cathy, but only after unhooking her other oil source. Actually, after bombing her other oil source, she's willing to pay a little more. That's interesting.

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/586/06russianpeace.jpg (http://img33.imageshack.us/i/06russianpeace.jpg/)

Then I go see what she wants for Gems.

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/9353/07russiangems.jpg (http://img510.imageshack.us/i/07russiangems.jpg/)

Now, bear in mind that she'll only offer 250 gold, her WM (which I just got), and gems for Motorized Transport. Clearly, she's been hitting the Russian Wines a little hard.

In 1680, Cathy enters the Modern Age & draws Ecology as her freebie. I'm 1 turn from Fission. As soon as I'm sure that the UN is a lock (or maybe after it's built), I'll try to trade her out of ecology. It is, after all, on the way to Modern Armor.

On that IBT, Fission comes in. I have four sources of uranium already hooked up. Brennus also has uranium. I check to see what Cathy will offer for it, but none of her offers include Ecology. Ah, well, I'll just hold it for a bit, until the UN is closer to being finished. It's 7 turns out, by the way.

After Fission, I set tech for Computers in "scientist only" mode. That gives me +637 gpt to cash-rush some tanks and bombers. I only plan on doing that for a turn or two before cranking science back up.

In 1685, the Venerable Bede completes his Great History of the World:
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/7935/08bedesbook.jpg (http://img222.imageshack.us/i/08bedesbook.jpg/)

In 1690, the Celts leave a variety of boats within range of my bombers. Even though I could use a few more turns to get my ground forces in order, I decide that I don't want to miss the opportunity to cut down the Celtic navy.

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/1883/09celticdow.jpg (http://img341.imageshack.us/i/09celticdow.jpg/)

Naturally, I call up Cathy to see if she's in the mood to gang up on Brennus.
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/9639/10russianalliance.jpg (http://img510.imageshack.us/i/10russianalliance.jpg/)

The Battles of 1690:
Alexandria is captured and all of Old Egypt is now mine.
Almeria is destroyed
Seville is captured

In 1695, I crank research back up to 50%, which should get me Computers in 7 at +34 gpt.

1695:
By this point, I've basically turned Old Egypt into one big worker pump. Frankly, I wish I had more transports, but I' too busy cranking out battleships, cruisers & destroyers. That means that I don't have enough transports for shipping settlers and arty off this island. That means I've got to airlift. So what I'm doing is this: Build settlers in Old Spain. Airlift workers from Old Egypt to replenish the pop loss. So I've built a bunch of airfields in Old Egypt for that purpose.

Axima & Deva are destroyed.
I sink a Celtic aircraft carrier, several destroyers and the transports they guard. I have some concerns about hitting the Celtic navy as hard as I usually do. On the one hand, it cripples the AI's ability to invade me. On the other, it also traps their ground units on the island which I want to invade. . . .

By the end of 1700, my ground forces are almost ready. They're still on my turf, but I'll get them loaded. I've continued bombing Celtic cities. I figure that even if I'm not taking cities, as long as I'm killing troops, it's all good. The AI never leaves a city undefended, so if I kill a soldier on the edge of its empire, it will either rush one, or shift one from its interior to the outskirt.

IN 1705, I see no less than a dozen Russian tanks. Good Gawd Awmighty! They sure do build stuff fast at this level. This is interesting because I heard disbanding noises on the Russian turn just a couple of turns ago.

I lose a bunch of bombers in 1710, and WW cranks up on me. Unfortunately, I've still gove ~12 turns of alliance left with Cathy. So I dial lux spending back up to 30%,and turn science down to 0%, just for a turn or two. I want to cash-rush a few more bombers to absorb the losses.

Well, then I go back and jigger with the sliders, dial up Cathy & go buy some diamonds:

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/8620/11russiangems.jpg (http://img510.imageshack.us/i/11russiangems.jpg/)

On the IBT, a submarine kills one of my transports. As it attacked me, rather than stumbling across one of my subs, I can only assume that it's Celtic. In 1715, my cruiser stumbles across it (I assume it's the same one) and kills it.

In 1715, I SUCCESSFULLY PLANT AN AGENT IN MOSCOW! WAHOO!!! Here's what they've got:
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/5060/12russianmilitary.jpg (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/12russianmilitary.jpg/)

Giddy with my success, I try to plant a spy in Entremont. Naturally, that poor sap is caught and killed.

Finally, after decades of bombing and generally nasty fighting, Lindum, a small Celtic hamlet that is waaay too close for comfort, falls and gets me an MGL!

And in 1715, I discover that the Celts build Richborough on top of their uranium! (When did the AI get so smart?)

I'm going to stop here, because Princess Bloodthirsty wants her turn at Civ. She's got a Chieftain level game as the Koreans going. How can I possibly resist?

Ending notes: I'm 1 turn from finishing the UN. Once that's done, I don't have to worry about the UN vote. I just won't hold them. Unfortunately, between Cathy's marines and Brennus having a city sitting on a source of uranium, this game could go down to nukes. If someone starts building the Manhattan project, I may just have to bust my reputation to stop that. I can't think of a single other game I played where nukes were really a threat. As for culture, well, I've already shut down the game, so I can't look at the F8 screen, but CA2 shows that everyone is disdainful of my culture. Not a big surprise. Computers are 7 turns away, but that'll shorten up when I turn science up again. The Celts won't talk to me, but I know I've unhooked one source of their oil. Unfortunately, I've just spotted another on their mainland. Apparently, I totally overlooked some resources before. Unhooking Cathy's oil was never going to do it. Ah, well, time to prepare an invasion.

Man! You're spies have less luck than mine do! How the hell is that possible?! :lol:

Also, I hate it when the AI builds cities on top of critical resources... Hopefully they won't have walls up before you can put it to the torch...

Also, I don't know about anyone else, but I think a story of "Princess Bloodthirsty's" Korean game would be interesting. ;)

Apparently, my spies always suck, because this is about average for me.

I'll have to check with Princess Bloodthirsty, but she didn't want me posting her story earlier today. Her Korean game is at Chieftain and the hard part for me is actually letting her play without taking over. She wants to play without Daddy standing there going "build a worker, move that guy from working the hill to the bonus grassland." At the same time, she wants me available to come answer questions when she gets stuck.

I would not worry about marines, they seldom use them for amphib and are more likely to send them in on the ground attacks.

iirc once you failed planting a spy, it has half life effect. IOW you are very unlikely to get it planted the next turn and for the next 5 turns it decays back to normal odds.

ditto for any other espionage/diplomat action (steal tech, etc).

Generally, I have such lousy luck with spies (except planting them) that the ONLY thing I use them for is to get a run-down of enemy troop strength and to be able to Investigate Cities while I'm at war (used to extremely good effect in the AoI story game I've been playing).

Great read! You've got this one in the bag.
Checklist:
Kill Russians
Build UN
Locate Uranium
Claim Uranium
Research Mech Inf & build some
Start down path to Modern Armor
Kill Celts

I've just had this happen to me, so I'll point it out, even though you may be smarter than I was. If you research Synthetic Fibers, and wonder why you can't build Modern Armor, remember that you need Aluminum, which is revealed by researching Rocketry. And I know that I totally ignored Rocketry when I was going for Modern Armor. Like I said, you may already have known this, but I don't generally get to Modern Armor, so that detail had escaped my attention.

Thanks & good call, Prof. I don't usually get to MA, myself. Either that, or I own so much land by that point that I almost certainly have aluminum. I'll keep an eye out for that.

Yeah, the aluminum thing can be a bit of a sticky wicket... Not nearly as bad as my PTW game where I got to the Late Industrial/early modern age AND I DIDN'T HAVE A SINGLE SOURCE OF OIL....

Worse, the Celts (apparently everybody's nemesis) had a virtual monopoly and weren't willing to trade...

Therefore my best units were Guerrillas, Infantry (I had Rubber at least!), Marines, Ironclads and Galleons... I was actually chuckling to myself when I got pulled into a war with the Celts imagining my amphibious assault force:

While Civil-War era ironclads hammer away at the Celt's shore defenses, sail-driven Galleons lower oar-powered whaleboats packed to the brim with assault-rifle wielding Marines... I.e. about as anacronistic an assault force as you could imagine! :lol: Thankfully my Marines were able to take that city and a city with access to oil in fairly short order and I was finally able to start cranking out tanks/upgrading my galleons to transports, but still... :lol:

Yeah, in the last turnset, I bombed a couple of Celtic galleons, which I'm sure were loaded with Infantry.

Now that I re-read my last post, I'm just hoping that I didn't jinx myself on aluminum. :lol:

What a fun read. Well done Aabra. Good luck!

Phaedo! Long time, no post!

Glad to see you back.

You know, if you had waited until Sunday, it would have been two years between your posts. :D

Oh, aren't you up in Buce02? :crazyeye:

good stuff... love this story.

Raze the world! :lol: :devil:

Sometimes when I read your story, I feel like continuing mine/starting a new one. But I just don't have the drive to actually play civ.

I'm hoping to squeeze in a few turns soon, but with Xmas just around the corner, on top of all my year-end business duties, I'm not sure if I'll get it posted or not. Seems unlikely. At any rate, DG has been interesting. I like the challenge level, though, so this won't be my last DG game, at least not until I'm ready to move on to Deity. . .

It's a pleasure to have you all along for the read, and if I don't get around to posting, Merry Christmas :xmascheers: and Happy New Year to all. :newyear:

Chapter 17: Invading the Celtic Island

Well, Princess Bloodthirsty has decided that she likes C3C. When you're a 6-year-old girl, apparently, the ability to rename your units is of critical importance. So far, she likes the Koreans. She's even talked me into a multiplayer game, so that she and I can go clobber the AI together. She's made me promise, though, that I won't attack her empire. On the other hand, she's told me not to be nervous if she brings a pile of catapults into my territory, so I'm suspicious. That game, however, may have to be the subject of a different tale.

As regards this one, we pick up in 1715 AD. I'm at war with the Celts and allied with the Russians. The UN is 1 turn out and computers are due in 7. I have forces just about to land on the Celtic home island, so I'm a bit anxious to see what their first waves will look like.

Anyway, on the first IBT:

http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/8284/01uncompleted.jpg (http://img704.imageshack.us/i/01uncompleted.jpg/)

As I pointed out at the end of the last chapter, I've been very careful not to jinx myself by saying anything like, "This game is won." However, I think I can safely say that the chances of my losing to a UN vote just got very, very slim. I'm not going to bother with screenshots every time the UN vote comes around. Trust me when I say there will be no UN elections for Secretary-General.

In 1720, I have a big "Oh yeah!" moment. I have an MGL from the end of the last turnset that I'd forgotten about! Guess I'll rush Battlefield Medicine.

Well, Princess Bloodthirsty has come and joined me, so I'm going to let her help me out. War Weariness is beginning to set back in, but, as usual, I'm going to crank up the slider, maybe hire a couple of clowns, and press on. With 14 turns of alliance left with the Russians, not much else I can do, at least not without busting my reputation. Still not quite at that point.

IN 1725, I found Celtic Beachhead. I think it might be under a bit if cultural pressure.

http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/1953/02celticbeachhead.jpg (http://img704.imageshack.us/i/02celticbeachhead.jpg/)

I neglected to take any workers along for disbanding, so I short-rush a rax. I'll airlift a worker in for disbanding to get walls up. I need the rax worse than I need walls, though, so that comes first.

I also win the Bonehead Move award in 1725 AD. I've got, or rather, I had, two transports that I was going to use to mount a secondary invasion of the Celts from the eastern end of my empire. I didn't have any trouble getting them to that eastern end, but sure enough the Celts bombed them into oblivion once they got into port there. Crap.

I built a settler out of a city that I captured, and have finally verified a question that I asked just recently. If you build a settler from a captured city, it will have a foreign nationality.

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2631/03celticsettler.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/i/03celticsettler.jpg/)

The Celts are just too far from extinction for me to be very comfy settling this one, so I disband him for the shields on another (Iro) settler. Not a very efficient use of him, but I don't want to plant a city that's unhappy at its very core.

In 1735, I finally get an airfield built on Celtic Island. Time to start airlifting.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, as of this writing, it's been, oh, probably a couple of weeks since my last turnset, so I figure that a quick review is in order before I continue playing. Given that I'm shooting for a military victory, let's start with the Military Advisor & troop counts.


I have:
Infantry Armies: 1
Tank Armies: 1
Cav Armies:6
Tanks: 21
Cavs: 63
Artillery: 53
Infantry: 55
Guerilla: 0
Fighters: 11
Bombers: 16

Obviously, I've lost a bunch of bombers to Celtic fighters. That might explain why I'm having to run 50% on lux spending. Unfortunately, I still have 11 turns of Alliance left with Cathy against Brennus. I could lay low & try to avoid other losses, but I really want to crack a few more Celtic towns.

After the first IBT, a mass of Celtic soldiers head my way:

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/421/04celticforces.jpg (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/04celticforces.jpg/)

See? This is why I was not sure I wanted to be killing off all of their transports. I mean, they still would have had a boatload of soldiers, but maybe at least a few would not have been standing around, waiting to pound my guys.

I also note, after the 1st IBT that about 40 cities are about to riot! Time to crank up the lux slider again. I do not ever remember having to spend 60% on lux before. . . I'll need to make peace with Brennus as soon as I can. Dagnabbit! Even after raising the slider to 60%, I have to hire way more clowns than I care to admit to. I just can't see raising it to 70%, though. At that point, I'd have to seriously consider just trashing my own reputation & making peace. And for all of my careful tinkering, I still lose a turn on research. I was 1 turn out from Computers, now I'm 2 turns. :(

My daughter is sitting in my lap, bombarding me with C3C questions. As much as I love the fact that she's interested in this, the distraction causes me to leave a transport loaded with arty unprotected. So that's 6 less arty for me. It is with no small amount of satisfaction that I locate the offending Celtic destroyer and sink it.

In 1745, I pound Vilcamba pretty hard. I don't succeed in taking it, but I whittled down the stack that's in there pretty well. The AI has fortified a bunch of infantry in there and they're a bear to kill!

At the end of 1745, Computers comes in. I immediately sell it to Catherine. My treasury is down to 104 gold (as you can see), and I'm not all that interested in selling her Fission. So I'll sell her Computers. Yes, I'll have to face Mechs, but I guess I'd rather face those than nukes.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/4030/05sellcathycomputersx.jpg (http://img263.imageshack.us/i/05sellcathycomputersx.jpg/)

Well, Princess Bloodthirsty is itching to start her first Warlord-level game, so I'm going to sign off for the moment. 9 more turns of war, if I want to save my reputation. If not, then I can DOW Cathy at will.

By 1750, I've finally gotten sufficient arty over on Celtic land to do me some good, and I have a little luck in an area in which it's been lacking in this game. I draw an MGL!

Oh, and that was Vilcamba's last defender, so it's mine. According to Sashie VII, I'm supposed to raze the world.

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/3167/07vilcambarazed.jpg (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/07vilcambarazed.jpg/)

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/8596/08ollantaytamborazed.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/i/08ollantaytamborazed.jpg/)

I also rush a transport down south, near Old Egypt. I've had one cav army sitting down there, guarding Old Egypt. IOW, he had nothing to do, so I've decided to try to secure another source of oil.

The 1754 bombardment of Glevum reminds me of why I love battleships. I get to kill a couple of their bombers with my battleships!

OH, &*^#$%#!!! I just realized that when I went to load an elite* tank into an army, I loaded an elite tank into it!

I was able to crunch a Celtic island that had 3 towns and a source of oil on it. My naval fleet in the North Celtic Sea has done a pretty decent job of unhooking coastal resources, and cutting off a few towns from the rest of the empire. It may not be the most efficient tactic, but I like it. I've got a Christmas Cookie Exchange to attend, so I'll end Chapter 17 here. I'm glad that I got it played & posted before Christmas. I can feel the Celts beginning to weaken. Their counter attacks have gotten noticeably smaller and over the past few turns, I've been able to locate and target some of their aircraft. It will be nice to make peace with them, just so I can quit spending to much on keeping my people happy, but I think I'll be able to ride out the alliance at this point. I was seriously considering trashing my rep, but these past two turns have led me to believe that it won't be necessary. I've been wrong before, though.

Twas the night before Civmas,
And all through my house,
Not a creature was stirring,
Not even a mouse.

And ma with her arty,
And I with my knights,
Had just settled in,
For an old-fashioned fight.

When what to my wondering ears should I hear?
Twas my six-year-old daughter,
Shelling Paris this year.
Away to her DS,
I flew like a flash,
She'd opened up diplo and
Swapped techs for cash!

. . . .

Merry Civmas to all and to all a good fight.

And if you build workers, they become slaves, which you can never have enough of :devil:

According to Sashie VII, I'm supposed to raze the world.

:goodjob: :lol:

When I first played C3C, the rename-unit function was a very, very pleasant surprise :D

Have a merry Civmas and a wonderful new year :xmascheers:

Chapter 18: An End to the Celtic War

Now that Christmas is over, perhaps I can squeeze in a little Civ time.

We pick up in 1756 AD. I'm still at war with the Celts, and still allied with the Russians. My lux spending is still way too high, due to WW. I even considered just swapping all inhabitants of science farms to scientists. It would have required some intense MM due to the starvation issue, but it might have allowed me to drop that happy slider. Maybe next time, but for now, I don't think I want to go down that road. I've only got 5 turns of alliance with Cathy left &, hell, I've survived this WW this long; surely I can survive it another 5 turns, eh?

Here are some screenshots of the hot zones. First of all, here's Celtic front.

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/1535/01celticfront.jpg (http://img706.imageshack.us/i/01celticfront.jpg/)

As you can see, this is the Celtic mainland. I've got my work cut out fromme getting past Tiwanaku and the other formerly-Aztec cities to get to Entremont. but I shouldn't really have to split my forces to do so. The only question is whether I should sweep those cities east of Glevum on the way. I hate to leave cities that size behind my main lines, but at the same time, a hard drive through Tiwanaku to Entremont could (at least in theory) leave the Celts good & crippled.

The Russian front, which you can see below, is a little more complicated, tactically. When that time comes, I think a fast strike to take out that eastern leg of the island & the city north of my swath of cities will be adviseable before moving on to the main war, which wil run SW from Omsk. I captured Omsk a while back to take Russian oil and salt. Unfortunately, the Russians now have me sandwiched there. Oh, and there's also uranium NE of Omsk (Iro) & Astrak (Russian) at the NW end of that little strip of cities I've laid down. One thing that the Russian landmass has that the Celtic landmass does not: chokepoints. Russian lands extend to the west (from where I've already conquered) in this long, sort of stringy shape. I've circled some places where I could conceivably put down chokepoints, should I need them.

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4971/02russianfront.jpg (http://img706.imageshack.us/i/02russianfront.jpg/)
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5623/03russianchokes.jpg (http://img69.imageshack.us/i/03russianchokes.jpg/)

In 1758, the Celts actually try another landing. It's on the island where Burdigala stood. I'm sure you remember how long it took me to take that city down.

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/985/04celticlanding.jpg (http://img706.imageshack.us/i/04celticlanding.jpg/)

The Celts attack on the IBT, but fail to take the city. The UN vote comes up on the IBT, but I told y'all how this would go.

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/4207/05nounvote.jpg (http://img130.imageshack.us/i/05nounvote.jpg/)

Frankly, I still wish I had more units. Fortified infantry in size 7+ cities are a tough nut to crack & I don't have enough bombers to both: (a) whittle down defenders; and (b) redline incoming attackers.

I've grown tired of Cathy marching her workers through my territory, and I've noticed that the "remove or declare" option is now available in diplo. Unforunately, I've moved most of my units for this turn, I'll try to give her the boot on the next turn.

In the meantime:

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/5742/06corihuayrachinarazed.jpg (http://img706.imageshack.us/i/06corihuayrachinarazed.jpg/)

IN 1760, the Celts attack and kill a wounded cav army. That bites. :mad:

I tell Cathy "remove or declare." She removes.

Fortunately, the Celts prove willing to replace the army they just killed.

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/5418/07mgl.jpg (http://img130.imageshack.us/i/07mgl.jpg/)

(Now, where was that elite* tank that I had . . . ?)

I've still got a couple of lux deals with Cathy, but the time has just about arrived for another Russian war. I see lots of Russian units & they're getting fidgety.

1762 -- And, wouldn't you just know it?!?!? Tonawanda 2 (where Burdigala was) flips to the Celts!

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2136/08tonawandaflips1762.jpg (http://img37.imageshack.us/i/08tonawandaflips1762.jpg/)

That was painful, but it doesn't take me but a minute to take it back. Notably, though, Tonawanda 2 gets a TOW infantry when it flips. Looking at the trade screen, it looks like I've successfully denied them rubber & oil.

The alliance with Russia against Brennus has run out. I also notice that Brennus has 86 THOUSAND, NINE HUNDRED AND SOME-ODD culture. More than anything, this is going to become a race against culture.

Glevum is the next to go.

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/420/09glevumrazed.jpg (http://img706.imageshack.us/i/09glevumrazed.jpg/)

In 1766, Cathy comes to me and asks if we would like to renew the alliance against Brennus. She's willing to offer wines to do so. I'm not sure exactly how much she'll offer, so I head to the bargaining table. Turns out that she'll not offer a farthing more! Not a tech, not even ironclads, not gold, nada. I decide that it's time to cancel the alliance & I do so.

After that IBT, I immediately check the F8 screen. Doing a little back-of-the-envelope math, it looks like Brennus is producing 224 culture per turn. Not as scary as I thought. Waaaay more than I'm producing, but not enough that I thin he'll beat me by culture. In terms of 100K, he's still a fair margin away. I don't guess I'll start worrying until, what, 93-95K? In terms of 20K, his best city is Verulamium, at 7,848. That's exactly 200 points better than Aabraxa, at 7,648, so there's a long way to go there, too.

I start to build the SETI program in Aabraxa. Then I swap it back to an army. I like SETI, but I'm not going to build it. Why? Because I'm going to beeline Modern Armor. After that, we'll see if I do any more research at all. I might do some research towards nukes, but I'm more interested in cash-rushing MA units right now.

In order to make any further headway against the Celts, I've got to get past a size 16 city, built on a hill, housing Infantry. I decide that it's time to make peace.

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/8878/10celticpeace.jpg (http://img130.imageshack.us/i/10celticpeace.jpg/)

Yes, I know that Computers gets him Mechanized Infantry. Still, I get 1400 of his gold, 105 gold per turn, and I can turn down the luxury slider. He's crafty to worry about those swinging Iroquois merchants' tricks. . .

So now that I've made peace with Brennus, I continue with preparations to face the Russians. I spend a fair amount of Brennus' gold on upgrading Infantry to Mechs. I've had workers building some fortresses and barricades along the projected Russian front lines. I've also begun shipping & airlifting units back to Old Spain. I've got enough units there to hold off a Russian attack (I think), but certainly not enough to push the lines forward. I expect to be DOWing her (or, even better, getting her to DOW me) in the next few turns.

Well, Mrs. Aabraxan is on her way home with groceries, which I must dutifully assist in unloading. Besides, Princess Bloodthirsty wants her turn at civ. Rocketry is one turn out. I had hoped to finish it today, but only got in a couple of turns. In terms of playing time, probably the most time-consuming thing was rearranging all the specialists that I had (especially the clowns) to help combat WW. Now that I've made peace with the Celts, it'll be interesting to see what kind of research I can do. Cathy won't sell me Ecology, which I'd really like. Ah, well. The next few turns will be spent shuffling units into position and giving Russian units the boot order. If I can get Cathy to DOW me, so much the better. I looked at the F3 screen just before shutting down & she has ~75 mech infantry. That part's gonna be a slog, so I'll just have to get my bombers ready for it.

How close are you to the domination limits? ....Looks like this could be a race between your domination and the Celt's culture.

If I'm reading CA2 right, I need 535 more tiles and ~3% more of the population to win by domination. I didn't think to look at that while I played today.

Does not sound like a big issue with culture, don't forget to check Cathy. He not only has to get to 100k, but twice the next player. It is likely he is not all that far ahead of Cathy in culture. Surely not twice hers.

The big thing is to not eliminate one, while the other is at the limit and is twice yours. That is how I lost my first Sid continents game. I thought I was poised to start on the top dog and killed of an OCC nation. I forgot about culture and was greeted with a big fat loss.

Ummmm, now for the silly question. How do I check Cathy's culture? Brennus' culture is listed in F8, but I don't know where to find Cathy's.

MapStat should give you an estimate of everyone's culture.

Well, I guess I'll just have to fire up MapStat, then. Thanks, Spoonwood.

Mapstat shows culture as of 1768 AD as follows:

Iroquois: 18,174 (+153)
Celts: 87,306 (+290)
Russia: 50,246 (+45)


I may need to crunch the Russians down to an isolated OCC, then come back and kill off the Celts.

You would be taking a small risk as it is about 40 turns to 100k. Then they would not need much more to get the double, especially, if you are killing off the Russians. To be safe, I would focus on the Celts and get them crunched down.

In fact, killing them off completely is good. Russia will not make 100k.

Yeah, that probably would have been a good idea, but I just made peace & need to give the WW at least a small chance to die down. 60% on the lux slider was killing me. I'm going to be facing mechs, so I want to get to Modern Armor. Once I get there, I can shut off research, flip the beakers to bean-counters and start rushing units & (hopefully) an army or two.

I just finished reading your whole story. Nice job, but when is the next post going to be?

Welcome to CFC & to Aabra-cadaabra, Sparthage! Glad to have you along.

While I do intend to finish this game, I'm not sure when the next update will be. My Civ time is in short supply these days and it's gotten to the point that turns take a long time to play. Sometimes that means I only get a couple of turns in before I've got enough for an update, but I do try to get more than that in before posting. I'll try to squeeze in some turns soon.

Where have I seen this guy before?

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/8878/10celticpeace.jpg

Ah yes...

http://www.usniel.com/wp-content/uploads/freddie-mercury.jpg Didn't recognize ya with that longer hair cut, Freddie

Interesting... You might post this in the interesting screenshots thread.

As Curtis Mayfield sang for the move Superfly Freddie's Dead.

Chapter 19: Headed for Russian Ground

As I start this turnset, I get something I've not seen before.

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/521/01radiof6screensmall.jpg (http://img707.imageshack.us/i/01radiof6screensmall.jpg/)
Really, science advisor? Radio?

Rocketry is 1 turn out.
Ecology costs 7638 beakers.
Synthetic Fibers costs another 9600.
That's 17,238 beakers.
My civ can produce about 1180 beakers per turn.

Ok. A little back of the envelope puts it somewhere around 15 turns for me to research Eco and SF. If I swap Fission for Eco, cuts my time to SF to ~9 turns. At that point, I can go lone scientist, and begin cash-rushing & airlifting modern armor. I probably need more settlers, too. I currently have 10.

Compared to the Russians, I have an average military. Compared to the Celts, I am strong. Hmmmm. Those are odds I can live with, I think. I'm a little nervous about trading Fission, but I want to hit Modern armor as fast as I can.

First things first, though: getting units into place. It doesn't take long for me to begin thinking of 1770 AD as "The Year of Getting All My Crap Put Into Stacks." I airlift a few tanks into Old Egypt and finally send a transport pair down there to get that Cav Army that's been standing guard all these years.

I dial up Cathy. She won't offer Ecology for Fission any longer.

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/3320/04russianofferforfissio.jpg (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/04russianofferforfissio.jpg/)

While tinkering with offers to try to get Eco, I find something interesting. A Fission for Eco offer gets me "I doubt they will accept this offer." If I throw in silks, "they would never accept such a deal." At first, I think I've busted my rep.

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/6629/05ecologyfissiontrade.jpg (http://img688.imageshack.us/i/05ecologyfissiontrade.jpg/)
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/8450/06lookslikebustedrep.jpg (http://img229.imageshack.us/i/06lookslikebustedrep.jpg/)

I check for gpt. She will not accept the deal if I add 1 gpt to it. I'm much better about my rep than this, but it's possible I've busted it. So then I go on tinkering. Eventually, I wind up checking Fission, Ivory & Silks for Ironclads and Demo. (Not that I'd take such a ghastly deal.) Here's what I got:

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5131/07maybenotbusted.jpg (http://img210.imageshack.us/i/07maybenotbusted.jpg/)

After much, much tinkering, I figure out that Cathy will not sell me Ecology. Period. I guess I move on to Plan B: Research Eco until Brennus buys it, buy it from him, and move on to SF. Fine. After scrolling through and managing all my cities, I get Eco down to 4 turns at 80% and -165 gpt. With just over 1500 in the bank, I can live with that.

In 1772, Brennus pays me a visit. He's looking for an MPP and an Alliance against Cathy. Tempting though it is, My forces aren't really in position yet, so I decline.

Oh, and I do have Aluminum. Two of them, in fact.

Interestingly, by 1774, I've invested enough that she'll sell me Ecology now.

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/3999/08ecologynowavailable.jpg (http://img684.imageshack.us/i/08ecologynowavailable.jpg/)

Interestingly, adding either 1 gpt or a lux/resource on either side puts the deal out of the question for Cathy. I clean her out on Fission, taking every tech, the 1 worker in her capital, and all her gold. Here's hoping that trading Fission isn't my biggest mistake of the game.

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/6996/09fissiontradedz.jpg (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/09fissiontradedz.jpg/)

(Oh, and I turned science down just while I was in diplo. I wanted to make sure that there wasn't a problem with the Russians thinking that I couldn't afford the 1 gpt.)

Deal done, Synthetic Fibers in 6 at 60% and +59 gpt. I could crank it down to 5 turns, but that'd be at -275 and I don't have enough gold to cover that.

I go see Brennus, but he doesn't have a lot to offer, at least nothing interesting. I could buy incense and spices from him, as well as Free Artistry. Yeah, there's one tech that I can really use. :sarcasm: I do notice, however, that I could sell him oil. As long as he and Cathy stay at war, I guess he'll have to go without.

In 1774, my deal for gems ends with Cathy. Of course, so do my 140 gpt payments to her. While tinkering with the deal, I notice that she doesn't have iron. Given that it's a prerequisite for factories, I don't think I'll be selling her that, either. I'll just have to live without gems for a while.

After my gems deal ends, I sell ecology to Brennus for a bunch of stuff, including spices and incense.

Oh, and if anyone looks at this save, yes, I built a boatload of fortresses & barricades along the anticipated Russian front. Rails are up for everyone and I want any units entering my territory stopped for a moment, so that I can pound the crap out of them. Besides, I've never really used fortresses or barricades before, so I thought this would be a good time to try them out.

As of 1780, nobody has Synthetic Fibers. I'm only 3 turns out and do not know if I'll get there first, but that sure would be nice.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I had to set this aside for a while, but it's just below freezing and we're getting a sleet/freezing rain mixture here at our house. Offices & schools are closed, Mrs. Aabraxan is curled up with The Lost Symbol by Dan Brown (a pretty good read, by the way), Princess Bloodthirsty is busy with something around here, and I've got a little Civ time. Wahoo!

Lo and behold! On the first turn after I sit down, I get a nice surprise: A new source of oil!

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/4720/10newoilsource.jpg (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/10newoilsource.jpg/)

Needless to say, I changed the UN box to say, "No." Not gonna have free elections. Wouldn't be prudent. I can now sell oil to both Russia and the Celts, so I have a hunch as to who lost their source . . .

Also, it looks like the Russians have decided to colonize that other little island off the eastern coast of Old Spain. I consider sending a settler to claim that rubber, but that's one more town I'd have to defend.

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/4556/11newrussianisland.jpg (http://img684.imageshack.us/i/11newrussianisland.jpg/)

I create an army of Mech Infantry and name it, unimaginatively, Mech Army. That's going to be cover for my artillery. I've got 3 tank armies and 4 cav armies on land with the Russians. I have one more on the way from the Celtic landmass, although I must admit that I'm sorely tempted to leave it over there to protect my holdings. I also have one empty army that I intend to fill with Modern Armor once I get them.

I've never really used fortresses or barricades before, so I built a boatload of them in preparation for this next Russian War. I've built a few, but I've never had enough enemy pressure to see how they work. I fear that this war may be different.

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/772/12barricadesgalore.jpg (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/12barricadesgalore.jpg/)

In 1784, the Celts start SETI. I'm good with this. It'll build some culture, but it also means that they aren't building troops there.

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/1481/13celtsstartseti.jpg (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/13celtsstartseti.jpg/)

That same year, I decide to risk planting another spy in Entremont.

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/5533/14agentinentremont.jpg (http://img684.imageshack.us/i/14agentinentremont.jpg/)

Synthetic Fibers comes in in 1784. I'll swap all the scientists for tax collectors, save one lone scientist, and begin cash-rushing. I want Modern Armor & lots of it. All the swapping is fairly tedious, but it takes me from +159 gpt to +1413 gpt, so I'd call it worthwhile.

Also on the IBT, I see the Russians disband a few workers. They also move a mech infantry into my territory! :gripe:

I give Cathy the boot. She leaves, allegedly. I've been watching the Russian units, and they're starting to get fidgety. I suspect that she'll DOW me on the next IBT, because her unit didn't move.

In 1786, I run across a very strange event! I used a fighter to recon the Celtic city of Gergovia. An explosion went up, as though I had bombed it, but I got no popup message about my bombardment & I'm still at peace with Brennus. Scared me to death.

As of the end of 1786, I have only 1 active deal with Russia, and it's about to expire. I forget what it was, but they're paying me 28 gpt for it. Looks like it's time.

Sure enough, in 1788, not only does Cathy fail to move those mechs out of my territory, she moves more in. Perhaps unfortunately, she actually does move her units when directed to do so this time.

In 1790 AD, I decide that I'm as prepared as I'm ever going to be.

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/5156/15russiandow1790.jpg (http://img684.imageshack.us/i/15russiandow1790.jpg/)

LET'S GET READY TO RUUUUUUUUMBLE!

The first thing I do is get rid of that that city NE of Omsk. That one creates an extra front that I really don't want to deal with.

I clear out that funky little corner city (which, btw, is near uranium), and begin moving down into Russian territory proper. I'm going to stop here, though, because Princess Bloodthirsty wants to start antother multiplayer game, and I can't resist. Besides, it seems like this war may need at least one chapter all its own.

Edited to add: I've attached the save if anyone wants to take a peek.

In the current GR they ran into the Radio issue. I think it has something to due with the biq they use to get 31 civs.

It could be that the reason she will not make a gpt is that she intends to DOW. The AI wil not be as concerned about a lux/resource deal, but seem to be picky about making a gpt prior to a war. Of course you could have a broken rep.

The explosion, was it just the little pollution smoke stack cloud?

Fission is a tricky one as you may be leading her into making the Manhatten Project. As long as you take her down, before that is done or at least prior to ICBM's flying. I try to delay the MP as I am not anxious to see nukes.

I've seen screenshots of the Radio thingamabob, but I've just never run into it in my own game.

I think you're probably right about the gpt/dow issue. I kept thinking that Cathy was going to DOW me, but she never did. The tanks at the town NE of Omsk were getting awfully fidgety. AI units always seem more restless right before a DOW. (That, however, might just be a figment of my imagination.)

The explosion was the "artillery bombardment successful" explosion. I do regular recon of certain areas and reconned Gergovia's square. I got the "boom!" and thought I'd bombed it. But I never got the "this will cause war" popup, and I'm still at peace with the Celts.

Chapter 20: The Russian Rumble

Also known as the Muscovite Mambo, The Fur-lined Foxtrot, and the Russki Rhumba . . . .

1792 AD -- The Russians show up at Omsk's doorstep with ~5 mech infantry, and a couple of tanks. Artillery ping them all down to 1 HP, after which I kill them off. Irkutsk falls.

On the IBT, Cathy's destroyers sink 5 of my battleships! :gripe:

1794 AD -- Murmansk falls. Invaders in Old Spain are repelled. Russian planes are destroyed on the tarmac at Samara. I cash-rush replacements for those BBs.

On the IBT, the Russians bomb the snot out of one of my cav armies, then succeed in killing it. :gripe: The resistance at Murmansk ends.

1796 -- I locate several Russian planes based in the town of Kursk. I proceed to bomb them, then send in the MA. Like the Celts, the Russians are kind enough to replace the army they killed.

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/7861/01mamgl.jpg (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/01mamgl.jpg/)

Samara falls.
Compared to Russia, I now have a strong military.

I have to say, the Russian Counterattack of 1796 doesn't really start off well for them.

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/4398/02mamgl.jpg (http://img31.imageshack.us/i/02mamgl.jpg/)

Sure enough, though, because I took the time to take the screenshot and post that, the RNG gods frowned upon me in my hubris, and allowed a TOW infantry to force that MA to retreat, so I lost the leader. No more screenies of defensively-generated MGLs until they're secure.

1798 AD:
Saratov falls.
Santander falls.
Magadan falls.
Arkhangel'sk falls.

The IBT after 1798 is really awful. The Russians sink 5 of my destroyers and drop 4 mechs & 2 tanks off in Old Egypt. (Fortunately, I airlifted a few more MAs down there on the last turn. Otherwise, I'd have to defend with the few cavs that remain there.) Then, to put the cherry on that Sucky Sundae, Seville flips!

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/7715/03sevilleflips.jpg (http://img168.imageshack.us/i/03sevilleflips.jpg/)

How the heck does that happen?!?! Seville is about 87,000 miles from any Celtic holding! :gripe:

1800 AD:

In old Spain, 4 Russian Mechs & 2 Russian Tanks die. I get a couple of promotions to elite.
At the Russian city of Tula, my bombers kill a Russian fighter, 3 destroyers, and a battleship, but I lose 2 bombers to anti-aircraft fire. Tula is destroyed.

I found Tonawanda 3. Right now I have ~47% of the land area and 68% of population. The Russians have 20% of the land. The Celts have 94, 155 culture.

I see a TOW infantry at Seville.

As I set my sights on Tver', I get another MGL.

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3771/04mgl.jpg (http://img191.imageshack.us/i/04mgl.jpg/)

I've been cash-rushing quite a bit and foresee continuing to do so. I might actually mobilize here soon. I've never actually mobilized before. Maybe today's my day.

OK. I'm 2 hours from Superbowl kickoff, so I'll shut down here for today. I've got prep to do.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I watched New Orleans win the Superbowl and we got buried in snow today. So I'll get a little civ time, anyway. I've been thinking long and hard about mobilizing. I've never actually mobilized before, but I've decided that today's the day. I swap lots of builds to MA for the shield bonus and away we go.

Under mobilization, Aabraxa becomes a 146 shield per turn city, spitting out a new MA unit every turn!

Sonofagun!!!!! Samara and Arkhangl'sk BOTH flip in 1800.

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5338/05samaraflips.jpg (http://img31.imageshack.us/i/05samaraflips.jpg/)
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9994/skflips.jpg (http://img402.imageshack.us/i/skflips.jpg/)

Time to burn those two to the ground.

In going through my cities, I discover that jet fighters get the mobilization bonus, but bombers do not. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I also lose a source of uranium on that IBT, but I have two others. I wasn't quick enough to get a screenshot, but it was on the eastern end of my home continent. I'm not even sure I'd ever noticed it, because I think I'd built on top of it. The only question is: who got the new one?

I also notice that Samara got more than one defender when it flipped. I didn't know about that particular bonus at this level. Oh, and I retake Samara.

Cornplanter shows up to lead some troops.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/5418/07mgl.jpg (http://img5.imageshack.us/i/07mgl.jpg/)

Vologda is razed.
Arkhangel'sk is razed.

Towards the end of the turn, I plant about 7 new land-claiming cities. This pushes me to 51% on land claimed, with Russia having 19%. The Celts now have 94,602 culture, though.

1804 AD -- Would I like to hold elections for UN Secretary General? No.

Teruel is razed.
Tver' is razed.

Overall, I'd say: (1) a good turnset for MGLs; (2) a bad turnset for culture flips and my naval units. I had hoped to finish up with Chapter 20, but that's obviously not going to happen. There's still too much land to claim. Chapter 20 would have to be a monster to squeeze the rest of the game in. I've claimed ~4% more land in the last 2 turns. The question is whether I can claim another 15% before the Celts hit 100K. I'm not sure I can, but I intend to do a lot of killing while I try.

"On the IBT, Cathy's destroyers sink 5 of my battleships!"

This is why I make mostly DD's. They are cheaper and can out run everyone. BB's are just not worth the shields, unless you have them to burn.

"On the IBT, the Russians bomb the snot out of one of my cav armies, then succeed in killing it."

The perils of high level games at conquest/dom. The AI will muster up bombers on your butt. You may lose armies. I try to locate the bomber with some investigation, if I have spies. Then take action as best I can to avoid being pasted or better take them out.

Ah yes, defensive MGL are risky lot on the open field. In towns, they are usually safe. I try very hard to not get a town over run.

"How the heck does that happen?!?! Seville is about 87,000 miles from any Celtic holding!"

Never figured these out. I have had the nation down to it last town and it was cutoff and still get a flip. At Sid they just have so much culture over me. DG would probably be the same.

"Sonofagun!!!!! Samara and Arkhangl'sk BOTH flip in 1800."

At least you are at war with them.

How much culture does Russia have now? How much do you have. If this is a std map they need 100k and to have double the next guy. Large maps need more. If it is a map from the editor, it always sets to 100k for massive maps.

So all you need is to be within 50% of them or leave Russia with a town or three. If Cathy is within 50%. Just do not let the Celts kill her off, till you get there.

The perils of high level games at conquest/dom. The AI will muster up bombers on your butt. You may lose armies. I try to locate the bomber with some investigation, if I have spies. Then take action as best I can to avoid being pasted or better take them out.

I wonder if playing archipelago makes it so the AI ends up getting more techs, since invasions take longer. Not sure though, because the tech pace initially goes slower. In my Sid conquest game (standard, 60% pangea, 7 scientific opponents as the Maya), they barely got Communism and/or Fascism. Maybe if I had played a no-cow, no-river start they would have got closer to bombers. Finding a stray settler on a galleon did prove as a pain though.

On flips: they get two defensive units since they're in Fascism/Communism? Doesn't sound like too big of a deal to me if you want to go for domination, just take it back, it's not like you have to kill a slew of units in their capital two or three times or their initial stack which they had before you warred with them. In short, flips may hurt a little, but it's more like the fly that bites your sking... it's not a rat gnawing on your *insert body part here*.

Remember we are only talking about dom/conquest. If you are on a huge map and going for Conquest or Dom, they have a lot more time. Also, if you are in republic, you research faster than Monarchy. Going for conquest, I am not going to be in Rep and probably spending a long time not research at all.

Once those boys make contact, they speed their research up a lot with discounts and trades.

Culture: The Celts have 95,195 culture and are at +520 culture per turn! :eek: The Russians have 53,690 & +154 culture per turn. I have a whopping 20,943, producing +92. So the Celts have to get to a little over 107K, which should happen in ~23 turns.

My economy is mobilized, so I can't build the Apollo Program until I make peace. At lone scientist, Space Flight is ~40 turns out. I'm not convinced that I can make peace, finish the necessary research and build all the SS parts in the next 23 turns. Maybe I could.

Here are some of the tech costs:
Space Flight: 10,285
Satellites: 8,914
Superconductor: 10,285
The Laser: 9,600
Robotics: 10,971
Miniaturization: 10,971

That's just over 61K in beakers left before I could launch. According to my calculations, I need 2,773 bpt to pull it off, and that'd be squeaking by, sneaking off the planet in 22 turns. I can produce almost 2384 bpt at 70%. If I flip my 290 tax collectors to scientists, that pushes me to 3254 bpt. With a little crafty trading & gifting, I might be able to get the AI to research a couple of those techs for me. I'd have to make peace immediately to pull it off, though. I'll have to think about whether I want to do it, though. I'm not so concerned about the shields involved, as I can use prebuilds and MGLs to build the parts. (At least I think I can use MGLs to build SS parts.)

According to CA2, I need 347 more tiles to win by domination. If I assume that each town founded or captured nets me an extra 6 tiles on the average (because they're up against Russian territory, or take in tiles that don't count toward the domination limit, etc.), then I need to net 58 more towns to win by domination. That's an average of 2.62 additional towns per turn for the next 22 turns. That looks tough, too, given how the AI spaces its towns. Well-placed combat settlers and lots of Modern Armor & armies might make this possible.

The flips are more of an annoyance than anything. (And yes, Spoonwood, perhaps they're getting the extra unit because they're in Fascism. I think both AI civs are. You're right that it's just a couple of units, though. Both civs are getting TOW infantry when they get a flip, so that tells me something about their resources.) As long as they flip to the Russians, I can just retake them. If they flip to the Celts, I've still got a couple of turns of PT left. I'd rather not go back to war with Brennus, because of the WW, but that may be unavoidable. As long as I'm mobilized, I'm getting 3-4 new modern armor every turn and I could increase that with cash rushing. I've got enough workers on the landmass with the Russians that I could just build a ton of airfields, make peace with Cathy, airlift bunches of MA, & go back to war with Brennus. The only problem is that I don't have enough armies over there right now. Looking at MapStat, Brennus has almost 18% of the landmass and Cathy has 19%. The more I look at this, the more I think I need to go back to fighting Brennus soon.

The culture score will be reached sooner, if you stay on Cathy as she will keep losing towns and be adding less culture each turn. If you could switch back to Brennus and take down his top 10 culture towns, you may be able to get enough time.

The problem is the top towns are going to be in his core and hard to get at. If you attempt it, just raze those suckers and watch the cpt numbers and see, if you can drop it to less than Cathy's cpt.

If you can do that, you have the time you need. Otherwise, you may not be able to pull it out. Now you know that you need to keep an eye on culture. Pick your targets with that an eye on the culture picture.

Good luck.

Yeah, one of the lessons that I've learned in this game is to keep a closer eye on the culture game. I'm not at my civ computer right now, but IIRC, Brennus has 30-35 towns left. All of his big culture producers should be on the same landmass that I invaded earlier. I've got enough workers to create a boatload of airfields on the land that I share with Cathy. The problem will be getting armies and arty back in time. Also, if I go back to war with Brennus, I'll lose two luxes and I suspect that I'll have to crank the lux slider pretty high pretty fast. C'est la vie.

I've also recently started my second attempt at DG. Took a while for me to get an appetite for it again after Greek hoplites eliminated me in my first attempt after only a couple of turns. Also went with Iroqui, but on Pangea. Interestingly enough, I've also got a cultural threat from the Celts, but it's 20k. The fact that it is Pangaea means that I can send an army stack to their capitol at any time to raze it. I've had the Celts in a battle of attrition with the Maya for half of the game to stem their cultural advance and it's worked like a treat. Two other civs are down to two cities, so I'm quite close to a conquest victory.

Only problem is that this particular game crashes way too often for some reason.

Anyway, armies and a stack of artillery is all you need to get over to the Celts and you already have a beachhead on his island, right? I think it's even worth anarchy at this point if it means taking down the Celts. The techs that you'll be researching now won't win you the game, warring on the Celts will. So zero research in whatever other government is preferable to sticking with Republic if WW is troubling you.

You should probably try to get Russia in an alliance against the Celts. Even if they capture Russian cities, they won't produce culture for them any time soon and it will give you a one front war instead of two fronts.

If you do get Russia on them, make sure he does not eliminate them or you lose right then. I made that error in my first cont sid game years ago. Not going to forget ever.

She's still strong enough that Brennus will have to work to eliminate her. IIRC, she's still got 20-25 cities. If he diverts enough units to hurt her very much, that'll just make it easier for me (I hope).

That sounds good, but you have made her much weaker than she appears, so be prepared to step in.

Culture: The Celts have 95,195 culture and are at +520 culture per turn! The Russians have 53,690 & +154 culture per turn. I have a whopping 20,943, producing +92. So the Celts have to get to a little over 107K, which should happen in ~23 turns.

My economy is mobilized, so I can't build the Apollo Program until I make peace. At lone scientist, Space Flight is ~40 turns out. I'm not convinced that I can make peace, finish the necessary research and build all the SS parts in the next 23 turns. Maybe I could.

Here are some of the tech costs:
Space Flight: 10,285
Satellites: 8,914
Superconductor: 10,285
The Laser: 9,600
Robotics: 10,971
Miniaturization: 10,971

Do you have the Internet on your home continent? If you do, maybe throw up as many towns as you can there. Throw a bunch of units in a city on one of your other islands. Disband your capital (palace re-direct trick). Then gift Cathy all your cities on the home continent. That would solve the culture problem (or at least delay Brennus's rise), though you would need to get up the infrastructure on your new home continent to launch the spaceship. Actually with how many cities you have elsewhere, you might manage enough scientists that this could work research-wise, but I don't know about getting the parts in on your new continent without factories.

No, I do not have the Internet. The funny thing is that, if I didn't know better, I might think you were joking. "Win the game by giving away a continent!" :lol: While I'm sure it's true that giving away my home continent would allow Cathy to build gobs of temples & libraries, which would certainly give her more culture, it would also cripple my unit support. Plus, as you mentioned, I'd have to get some infrastructure in my new continent to build SS parts or units. My other continents are ICS'd, so even my new capital would only have about 9 tiles to work, at best.

While I'm sure it's true that giving away my home continent would allow Cathy to build gobs of temples & libraries, which would certainly give her more culture, it would also cripple my unit support.

If I didn't speak clearly I meant the same continent where the Internet lay for the free research labs, not so much temples and libraries which would take time. Actually, remembering that captured wonders don't give culture, I don't know if you a city with the Internet given away would give the research labs culture or not.

No, you were clear. I was just thinking that, in addition to the research labs given by The Internet, Cathy would probably build temples &/or libraries. I don't know if wonders in gift cities generate culture, either, but I might test that when I'm done with this game. The Internet itself may or may not generate culture, but the research labs should. Given the number of cities on my home continent, those would generate more culture than the wonder, anyway.

You could give the city with the internet a turn later. They'll be recreated and should give culture then.

Hi, Aabra. :)

I hope that you don't mind me bumping your thread to discuss a post that's 5 months old, but I've only just started reading it, and I'm sure that you'll find it enhances your knowledge of the game; I'm a little surprised that it wasn't picked-up by one of the senior lurkers at the time.

I'm harking back to post 64, specifically this:

I land on an Egyptian hill, and spend a while watching Cleo shuffle her units back and forth. Geeeeez, they've got a lot of units at DG . . .None attack me, though, so I will at least get the opportunity to plant my city and rush my rax. We'll see how long I last after that.

1290 - The Celts start Universal Suffrage.

In 1295, I found Egyptian Beachhead, kill a few units, and promptly disconnect Cleo's saltpeter. On the first IBT, the Egyptians send what is, by my standards, a ridiculous number of units to attack EB. My Rifle Army is redlined, and several of my Riflemen are promoted to elites. Actual loss of units is minimal, though. I'm glad that I put EB on a hill.

On the next, IBT, though, I take truly massive losses at EB. The first thing I rushed was a rax, but perhaps I should have rushed walls first. I lose all of my rifles and my rifle army. By the time the IBT is over, EB is protected by 2 eSpears & 2 redlined cavs. I have no galleons to which to evacuate them and reinforcements won't arrive in time for EB to survive. I'll have to abandon it & try this whole invasion thing again. I do so, rather than deal with the WW that would be caused by its inevitable loss. The cav army is now a 4-unit army and can no longer be loaded onto a galleon. It just became a pillager. I guess that answers my earlier question: No, that wasn't near enough units to invade at DG. It would easily have been enough at Emperor, but DG is a whole different ballgame.

I've bold highlighted the relevant bits - do you spot the difference? When you landed your invasion force, you were not attacked; this is because the AI will not attack an Army in the open (I should put 'usually'; if it was an Army formed by low defence units - archers or somesuch - then it would be) but they will attack any Army within a city. Your mistake was to found a beach-head city; had you not have done so, your units would have sat unmolested beneath the protection of the Army. It is possible to invade whole continents like this with relatively few units - just an Army, some arty and some decent attack units is all that you need, even at the highest levels.

Welcome back, Buce! Good to see you, and no, I don't mind the thread bump.

Logically, I know that the AI doesn't like to attack armies in the open. Honest, I do. (This conversation sounds a little familiar, somehow. ;)) I don't know why I didn't think of it at the time. Somehow, invading another landmass without planting a city just didn't occur to me. I keep thinking "on a hill, across a river, rush rax, rush walls," and forgetting the "hide loads of killers under an army" tactic. Oddly, it's a tactic I use in early wars on a regular basis, but it seems to escape me when I start sending units over water.

A hard lesson well learned then! :)

On the same theme, if you are invading in late industrial times or later, take a worker with you; once you have razed a city or two, and created some neutral ground (ie. no cultural influence), you can put down an airstrip and fly in reinforcements.

I confess that I have not read every post and did not see this one. While it is true you can land an army and maraud, not sure what the point would be in diong that. The issue is not that you made a town, but rather what you did about it.

First you have to have a reasonable idea what you are going to face. Often on islands at higher levels, you will face a very large number of units. Normally I do not want to attack towns or venture out, until I have done a lot of killing on defense.

You need to bring more than one army or a few bombardment units. They are going to be used for 1) blocking some of the access 2) cutting proximity roads.

I want to give myself time to get at least a wall and a barracks up, before they hit. If I am able to find a spot that nature provides me the time, great. If they are going to be blocked by hills.mountains long enough to give me those two full turns, I do not have to cut roads or block.

Block or not depends on how things look as I may need those armies to defend. I would like it, if I do not have to block as I want to have them spread out. This gives me the chance that one or more tiles will have only a few troops, so I can kill some.

I seldom have so many boats that I can bring every spare I have, so I tend to not bring bombardment (cat/cannon) as they cannot defend.

No matter what, if I did not bring enough troops to withstand the attacks, no reason for me to come in the first place.

I like to only block the slow movers reaching me on the first two turns. I want the fast movers to come and kill themself. This is to keep the number of attack to a smaller number in any given turn.

If all are block and then the door is open, I may now face more than I can handle. Example:

50 cavs, 200 muskets, 100 longbow and some other stuff. If they are all bottled up for two turns and the left loose, I face maybe 400 attackers at once. If I let the cavs in and they die and I put up a barracks first, all defenders are full health for the next turn.

The numbers vary from less on lower levels and earlier in the game to much larger on Sid and later in the game. Anyway that is what I have used for tactics. I only maraud in very late situations.

Here I will have massive numbers of armies and will head out and trap large numbers and lock them down till I take out all of their towns.

Wall or barracks first is situational to me. Will they be able to hit me with all of the units that they can spare in one turn? Wall first, if not barracks first. Why, I need to survive the attack and walls help.

Mainly if, only one big attack, healing is not a priority. If I face another large attack the next turn, it is more important that my troops are healed, especially the armies.

Before I reply, vmxa, let me assure you that I mean you no disrespect whatsoever; anyone who can consistently beat SID is deserving of the utmost respect, and you certainly have mine.

It does seem, though, that you have a rather blinkered approach to the game, and have difficulty accepting or understanding any concept that is outside of your AW experience. Can you not see that there is more than one way to skin a cat?

I didn't speak of landing an Army and 'maurauding'; my point is that due to the quirk that Armies outside of towns will not be attacked, it is perfectly possible to conquer powerful nations with a much smaller taskforce than you seem to think necessary. I do not have your SID experience, but I have numerous Deity victories under my belt, many of them by using precisely that tactic. There is a SG somewhere which illustrates the point splendidly - I will try to dredge it out of my memory and provide a link when I have more time. The way that it works is that despite having huge numbers of units - and even on Emperor I have seen stacks in excess of 150 units in the Modern Age - the AI marches them back and forth aimlessly, while leaving each city protected by a relatively small number of defenders. These defenders are easily defeated with a stack of arty (sufficient in number to redline them all) and one's best attackers. In one such game, I watched in amusement as an enormous stack of tanks shadowed my forces as I razed city after city, then went puff as the last city fell.

I am not denying that your method works; you have demonstrated that it does many times. However, there is not always the option of sending 'massive numbers of armies', and Aabra's game is a prime example of this. Given that he only had a limited number of units and one(?) Army, it was a mistake to take and try to hold a town against overwhelming numbers; but had he followed the tactic I suggested, he could have successfully taken out any number of Egyptian(?) cities.

The way that it works is that despite having huge numbers of units - and even on Emperor I have seen stacks in excess of 150 units in the Modern Age - the AI marches them back and forth aimlessly, while leaving each city protected by a relatively small number of defenders. These defenders are easily defeated with a stack of arty (sufficient in number to redline them all) and one's best attackers. In one such game, I watched in amusement as an enormous stack of tanks shadowed my forces as I razed city after city, then went puff as the last city fell.

That's zany. At what point does this quit being a successful strategy and start being just an exploit of the AI's weakness? At the very least I'd want to mod my game so that I'd have to research a "magic cloaking" tech before being allowed to build an army. ;)

Thank goodness I'm moderately incompetent at this game and still struggle at the Monarch level.

It does seem, though, that you have a rather blinkered approach to the game, and have difficulty accepting or understanding any concept that is outside of your AW experience. Can you not see that there is more than one way to skin a cat?

I didn't speak of landing an Army and 'maurauding'; my point is that due to the quirk that Armies outside of towns will not be attacked, it is perfectly possible to conquer powerful nations with a much smaller taskforce than you seem to think necessary.


I am not sure you can infer that I would only use that one method, based one one post or even a dozen. It is merely a tactic that works against large numbers, but not the only one. He was talking about holding a beachhead.

That is what I addressed. The last lines on massive armies had nothing to do with his event. I specified more than 1 army or bombardment. IOW 1 army can be enough.

I would avoid coming with 1, if possible as 2 would let me do more things. Like cut a road or block a tile. Often blocking a single grass tile makes a huge difference.

It is very risky to run a stack around under a single army as the NOAIPatrol can get you, especially on a small island. One unit on a patrol or goto bumps into that army and takes off 2 HP and turns it yellow, you could get wiped out. This I have run into in solo and SG games. I vididly recall an SG were two units ran into a parked army and damaged it. Next thing you knew a swarm came out and cut it down.

Again the subject was a beachhead going down, not how one may preval without using a beachhead. He did not give numbers, so I do not know what would be required to pull it off. I merely gave some ways that could be incorporated to enhance the odds.

Yes I have raced around attacking towns, but they tend to have at least 4 defenders and usually 6. Many will have 50-100 though. I don't know what they had, but a 8-10 town Sid island could have 700-2000 units. They certainly had enough to kill him.

It is a lot of work to cut them down one town at a time. Easier to let them toss away many hundreds, before I head out. The massive army was about trapping concept, not valid for his situation and I probably should not have raised it.

In any event I am pretty sure I made no claim that a) there is only one way or b) even that this is the best way. That would be unknowable.

PS: Don't worry about hurting my feelings or my ego. I am way too old to sweat the small stuff. I know I do not know everything about anything. I also understand that I make mistake, forget and get confused. I wish it were not true, but it is a fact. :)

I just try to offer up what I think could be useful, sometimes it actually is, but not always.

That's zany. At what point does this quit being a successful strategy and start being just an exploit of the AI's weakness? At the very least I'd want to mod my game so that I'd have to research a "magic cloaking" tech before being allowed to build an army. ;)

To be honest, I've always considered that using Armies at all is an exploit, simply because they are 'broken'; the AI doesn't 'know' how to use them, neither does it 'know' how to fight them.

I actually went through quite a long period of not using them, as a way of honing my military skills.

I am not sure you can infer that I would only use that one method, based one one post or even a dozen. It is merely a tactic that works against large numbers, but not the only one.

Fair comment - if I misjudged you, I apologise. :)



He was talking about holding a beachhead..

Here we agree, at least in part; he should not have been holding a beachhead unless he could defend it. Where we appeared to differ - and I accept I may have misunderstood what you appeared to be infering - is that I still feel he had sufficient forces to do the job, albeit in a different way. When you wrote this......


No matter what, if I did not bring enough troops to withstand the attacks, no reason for me to come in the first place.

...... it appeared to suggest that forming a beachead and defending was the only method you would use.



I just try to offer up what I think could be useful

And don't ever stop - I have learned much of what I know by listening to the top players, yourself among them. :)
__________________

"No matter what, if I did not bring enough troops to withstand the attacks, no reason for me to come in the first place."

Yeah the unintended consequences of poor proof reading on my part. Being in a rush provides many examples of lousy posts. Unfortunately, I seem to be incapable of refrain. Then it is not easy to be both cogent and consice. Myopic is easier to do.

Being in a rush provides many examples of lousy posts. Unfortunately, I seem to be incapable of refrain. Then it is not easy to be both cogent and consice. Myopic is easier to do.
Oh, yeah; this is sooooo true.

:lmao:

I'm laughing with you, not at you.

Chapter 21: Russian Rumble Wrapped Up; Brennus-Bashing Begins

If you followed the last few chapters, you can guess what the plan is. I've made some decent expansion at Cathy's expense, but Brennus is nearing the 100k mark. I've got a couple of turns of PT left with Brennus, so I'm going to use those turns to take just a few more select Russian towns, then turn my attention to Brennus. I need to start killing Celtic cities and I need to kill them fast. I just want to seal a couple of chokepoints against Russian invasion & kick Cathy off just a little more land.

At the moment, Cathy won't talk to me, but that's OK. Her counterattacks have been manageable for a few turns, so I think I can prepare to go back to beating up Brennus. Wish me luck.

On the IBT (after 1804), the Russians sink one of my destroyers, but lose one of theirs trying to sink a second one. Other than that, very little happens.

1806 AD --
Celtic culture = 95,496
My land = 52%
Russians won't talk.

Chelyabinsk is destroyed. It had both uranium and aluminum close at hand.
I took one other Russian city, but forgot to write down the name. It was of little strategic importance, aside from the tiles it controlled.

1808 AD --
My land = 52%
Celtic Culture = 95,943
Russians won't talk.

I proceed to secure a chokepoint 4 tiles SE of Yakutsk, settling Neodakheat 3. I finish off the Russian settlements on this landmass east of there, and begin shipping units to Celtic land. Cathy still won't talk, but I've quit razing her cities for now, so maybe she'll talk soon.

As it turns out, I never did use those barricades/fortresses/etc. that I built. The Russians never mounted enough of a counter-attack to get that close to my cities.

Apparently, I wasn't watching the island off the eastern coast of Old Egypt all that well, because the Celts have expanded there and reclaimed the oil. I can't tell if they've succeeded in re-roading it, but I do know that I cannot sell them oil right now.

On the IBT after 1808, Brennus comes calling. He wants to renegotiate peace. Unfortunately, my armies are not quite in position. It looks like I need to renegotiate peace for the moment. Yes, I'm going to have to ruin my reputation in this game. I'm going to lose 2 luxes when he and I tango again, but I need for this (quite possibly last) war to be on my terms.

On that same IBT:
http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/2770/01celticmanhattan.jpg (http://img718.imageshack.us/i/01celticmanhattan.jpg/)

A quick trip to the F7 screen shows me that he's building it at Camulodunum (which always sounds a bit like "camel dung" to me). I'm more than willing to shell out 142 gold to check this out.

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/3465/02camulodunumbuildingma.jpg (http://img28.imageshack.us/i/02camulodunumbuildingma.jpg/)

OK. I've got 12 turns to stop this. I count 3 Mechs, 1 tank, 6 TOWs and a fighter. Unfortunately, it's also on the far end of their landmass from me.

The Russians still refuse to acknowledge my envoy in 1808. Hmmm, that may be a result of my burning their cities down.

Ok. I've taken a look at the Celtic landscape and here are my targets. Looks like I've got my work cut out for me.
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4696/03marchingorders.jpg (http://img85.imageshack.us/i/03marchingorders.jpg/)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Princess Bloodthirsty is sick today, so I'm home on Daddy Duty until noon.

As of 1810 AD, the Celts are up to 96,390 culture. I've got 54% of the land, 71% of world population, three armies on the Celtic landmass and a couple more on the way. I need to DOW ASAP.

In 1812, I try to call Cathy, but she's still giving me the cold shoulder. The Celts are at 96,841, so I really can't wait any longer. Time for a DOW.

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/8034/04celticdow.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/i/04celticdow.jpg/)

I had 18 turns left in the PT. If my rep wasn't shot before, it sure is now. This does ugly, ugly things to my economy. I have to raise my lux slider to 50% to keep Aabraxa from rioting. The WW isn't gone. Things with markets are mostly OK at 50%, but my specialist farms look like circuses by the time I'm done. I'm seriously considering a revolt to Monarchy. According to CA2, if that would let me drop the lux slider back to 30%, that would make Monarchy about 700 gpt more profitable than Republic. It would mean at least 7 turns of anarchy & no production during that time, but I might have enough units to hold off the Celts for that period. I'll wait a couple of turns to see.

Oh, and going back to Spoonwood's comment about flipped cities & government, both the Celts and Russians are Fascists.

I raze Seville.
I raze Tiwanaku.
I raze Lezoux.
I found New Niagara Falls 3.

So, after turn 1 of The Celtic War of 1812, here's the new Celtic landscape.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7882/05newcelticlandscape.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/i/05newcelticlandscape.jpg/)

In 1814, Cathy is finally willing to talk to me & we make peace.

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/586/06russianpeace.jpg (http://img28.imageshack.us/i/06russianpeace.jpg/)

I'm also getting her WM and TM, but she wouldn't give up Space Flight, at least not for peace. That lets me push the lux slider back down to 30% and shuts off mobilization. (Maybe the Celtic WW was gone or significantly decreased, after all.) However, I still want the mobilization. It lets Aabraxa build 1-turn MA and I likes that! First, I go back through my cities and swap clowns for IRS agents. I don't get to swap them all, but the vast majority of them go back to money-making activities.

I dial up Cathy again and she's not particularly keen on an alliance against Brennus, oddly enough. And she sure doesn't want to trade Space Flight. I offered SF, tons of resources and luxes, waaaaaaay more than I'd actually give her for it, and she won't bite. She wants coal and oil for Gems. I tie that to an alliance against Brennus. I don't particularly like her making bombers, but if she'll make them to use against him, I'm ok with that.

So, here's the deal:
I give:
MA vs. Brennus
Coal
Oil

She gives:
MA vs. Brennus
Gems

It's not enough to let me push the slider down to 20%, but it lets me fire a few more clowns. The Celts are at 97,275.

New Grand River 3 is founded.
Battleship destroys a fighter parked at Vilca.
New Allegheny 3 is founded.
Huamanga is captured.
New Oil Springs 3 is founded.
Vilcas is captured.
New Tonawanda 3 is founded.
New Mauch Chunk 3 is founded.
Machu Picchu is captured.
New St. Regis 3 is founded.
New Centralia 3 is founded.
New Akwesasne 3 is founded.

The founding of New Akwesasne 3 does several things. It creates a chokepoint, gets me a native source of spices and moves me to 58% of the land area. Russia and the Celts are tied at 16%. The Celts are at 97,275 culture. Also, I captured 2 enemy workers, one after the other, with one cav this turn. Not particularly significant to this game, but interesting in reference to something that came up in "Quick Answers/Newbie Questions."

Next stop: Entremont! :woohoo:

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/8025/07celticfront.jpg (http://img718.imageshack.us/i/07celticfront.jpg/)


By the way, ImageShack redid its website and I'm having some trouble figuring out the new setup. Someone please let me know if these pictures are working.

They look fine. Why were you so anxious to get an MA with Cathy? Why not just let her stew, the most she could do it sign up against you. With no bombers, not much she could do other than annoy you is there?

What was Russia culture again, was it less than 50k? What is the map size, is it standard? If it is larger the culture Celts should need more than 100k. 160k for huge.

Edit: I found were you said Russia was a bit ore than 50K in 1845AD or there abouts, so they should be at least some what larger now.

Did Brennus just switch to Fascism, Aabra; if he did it should halve his projected culture growth and give you a few more turns grace.

This is a real nailbiter - best of luck, mate.

Glad to hear that the pics worked. I made the MA deal to keep Cathy from pestering me. I'm not exactly worried that she'll ravage my empire, but I don't want dozens of TOW Infantry (she's got bunches of them) nipping at my heels while I'm trying to move forces overseas. I'd rather have her nipping at Brennus' heels. I wanted her gems, but she wanted coal and oil for them. This way, if she makes peace with Brennus, at least she loses the resources.

Buce, I'm not sure when he switched to Fascism, but I think he's been in it a while. He was in it at least by 1808. IOW, if his culture has already been halved, that's pretty scary!

Interestingly, the cities that I took in that chapter only had 3-4 defenders each. Brennus only had 102 gold in the 1808 AD picture of the Manhattan Project and when I captured Machu Picchu, I only got 13 gold. I get the feeling that the Celtic economy is already strained. At least, I'm hoping so.

Interestingly, the cities that I took in that chapter only had 3-4 defenders each..

That's precisely the point that I was making to vmxa previously; he (Brennus, not vmxa) might have hundreds of units spare but he'll only ever defend with 4 or so on DG.

I've got some jet fighters doing recon & I'm not seeing a lot of loose (non-city-defending) units, either, though. On the IBT after my first attack (taking Tiwanaku), Brennus sent one Mech Infantry on counter-attack. (Not that you'd get any of that information from the screenshots or my turnlog, though.)

Chapter 22: From Entremont to Endgame

We begin this chapter on the IBT after 1814 AD. According to MapStat, the Celts are generating 697 culture per turn! :eek: By comparison, the Russians are generating 131, and my civ generates a whopping 92 culture per turn. My forces are nearing Entremont. I need to take down Alesia first, just because it's on the way, but the big E is the prize right now. It's a size 21 city, & that means lots of shields, lots of money and lots of culture. Time to go a-whippin' and a-whoppin', a-rompin' and a-stompin' ever' livin' thing in sight.

A quick investigation of Entremont reveals that it is only producing 43 culture per turn, though.

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/9024/01entremont.jpg (http://img705.imageshack.us/i/01entremont.jpg/)

Hmmm. It' also protected by 10 mechs, and has a tank in production, 1 turn out. I go ahead and investigate Verulamium. It's produing 52 culture per turn.

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1109/02verulamium.jpg (http://img189.imageshack.us/i/02verulamium.jpg/)

If I can take those two down in fairly short order, that cuts Celtic culture prodcion by almost 100 per turn. This may or may not work. I figure that I've only got ~4-5 turns to claim 8% of the land area. Otherwise, the Celts will hit 100K. They'll still have to get to twice what the Russians have, but I don't think it'll be but a few extra turns.

One problem with archipelago maps is transport time. I can't airlift settlers. I can't airlift artillery (which has never made sense to me), but I can airlift workers. So I've begun airlifting workers out of Old Egypt to Celtic lands, and building settlers in my cities near the font lines. I then use the workers to replace the population loss from the settler builds. Rush, rinse, repeat.

In 1816, the Celts have 97,475 culture. I have 58%.

New Tyendenaga 3 is founded. 59%
New Kahnawake 3 is founded.
Alesia is captured.

IBT:
The Celts lose ~4-5 mechs attacking Alesia.
Cathy comes calling. She's annoyed that I have troops near Khabarovsk. (It's just a couple of BBs.)

1818 AD:
I have 59% of the world area and 73% of its population. Russian has 16% of each. The Celts have 97,660 culture. That's an increase of 185? I thought they were doing better than that. I pull up MapStat. Somehow it's showing 97,527 for celtic culture, with no indication of culture per turn. I don't get it.

But I've been thinking. I've got 4 armies (2 cav & 2 tank), along with a few MAs and a coupla dozen arty sitting around near the Russians. My rep is already shot, and the Celts are closing in on 100K. Do I really have anything left to lose by DOWing Cathy? I'll lose a lux and WW may shoot through the roof. OTOH, I only have to claim another 7% of the land to win.

I investigate Yakutsk.

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9260/03yakutsk.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/i/03yakutsk.jpg/)

Three Mechs an arty and a bomber. I can handle that.

What about Khabarovsk?

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/1472/04khabarovsk.jpg (http://img62.imageshack.us/i/04khabarovsk.jpg/)

Two Mechs. OK.

Finally, Novosibirsk.

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9893/05novobirsk.jpg (http://img696.imageshack.us/i/05novobirsk.jpg/)

Three mechs. So . . . if I can take out Yakutsk and seal that choke, then killing another ~15-18 city defenders, along with whatever comes at me from the south, I might be able to push the Russians off of that little spit of land. Combined with the progress I'm making against the Celts, I just might, and I mean MIGHT pull this rabbit out of my hat.

New Caughnawaga 3 is founded in Celtic territory.
New Oka 3 is founded in Celtic territory. I'm now at 60%.
I begin the siege of Entremont. Neither my artillery nor my bombers seem particularly effective, but I'm able to take it with MA armies.

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/4/06entremont.jpg (http://img534.imageshack.us/i/06entremont.jpg/)

There are *19* resistors, but I'll try to hold it, if only for the tiles. First things first, though. I immediately sell off almost all of the infrastructure. If it's gonna flip, the Brennus is getting back half the city he used to have. On the bright side, though, I do have Sun Tzu's now. :D

DD kills a Celtic fighter at Augustodurum.

Camulodunum is 8 turns from the Manhattan Project.

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/5711/07camulodunum.jpg (http://img42.imageshack.us/i/07camulodunum.jpg/)

It's also guarded by a boatload of defenders. I'm not even sure they'll finish it before hitting 100K. If MapStat is to be believed, they'll have to hit ~108K before they actually win, by the way.

New Chondote 3 is founded. 61% & I am now totally out of room on the land I share with Cathy. I have to either clear some room, or settle some islands.

Eboracum is captured.
New Gandasetaigon 3 is founded.
Augustodurum is captured. 62%.

According to MapStat, I'm 92 tiles from domination. Also, according to MapStat, I've got 58 resistors total, so the happiness tab is going nuts. Anyway, 92 tiles is probably more than I can claim by the end of the turn. Based on that, and after much consideration and a snack, I decide not to DOW the Russians this turn. Next turn, I'll reconsider. No, I won't. I know good & well that I'm going to DOW her. I move some BBs into position. Those will be used to bombard Yakutsk. Then I'll overrun a few Russian cities in an attempt to claim more land.

Richborough is captured. That gets me Celtic uranium.

IBT:
Some resistors at Entremont quelled. Naturally, riots ensue.
Notably, not one single Celtic counterattack comes!

1820 AD:
I'm at 62% of land, 77% of people. Celtic culture = 97,781. That's only ~120 culture more than last turn, right? Or is my math totally screwy? If I'm counting right, their culture production has slowed by quite a bit. :D

Vitcos is captured.
A half dozen extra arty finally arrive near the Celtic front. Did I mention that I dislike the fact that I cannot airlift artillery? I begin shelling hilltop railroads. If the Celts want to attack me, they're going to have to come at me on flat ground.

My next two targets are Verulamium and Lugdunum.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7513/08verulamium.jpg (http://img163.imageshack.us/i/08verulamium.jpg/)

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/8525/09lugdunum.jpg (http://img28.imageshack.us/i/09lugdunum.jpg/)

I take a closer look at MapStat. The culture numbers still aren't showing up quite the same as the game tells me they are. MapStat says that the Russians have 55,359 at +516, and the Celts have 97,943 at +218. I, magnificent builder of temples and cathedrals that I am, have a whopping 21,679, at +92 culture per turn. The game says that 97,781. Obviously, there are some discrepancies, but if MapStat is close to being right about the Russians having 55K and the Celts making ~220 culture per turn, then I've got a little more time than I thought. I'll skip DOWing the Russians for one more turn, in the interest of not sending my WW through the roof.

IBT:
Richborough flips

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/7923/10richboroughflips.jpg (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/10richboroughflips.jpg/)

1822 AD:
62%, Celts have 97,895 culture.

New Ganogeh 3 is founded.
New Gayagaahe 3 is founded.
Richborough is recaptured. 63%

While clearing out Celts that tried to retake Entremont:

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/269/11mgl.jpg (http://img268.imageshack.us/i/11mgl.jpg/)

The two towns that I founded, New Ganogeh 3 and New Gayagaahe 3 were placed to get me closer to Celtic towns, like Lugdunum and Verulamium.

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/7307/12verulamium.jpg (http://img94.imageshack.us/i/12verulamium.jpg/)

64%

Of course, even though I'm out of artillery and bombers, I can't resist the urge to take some of those MA armies north to Lugdunum.

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/383/13lugdunum.jpg (http://img203.imageshack.us/i/13lugdunum.jpg/)

I investigate Gergovia and find that it's only got 3 defenders. I'm sorely tempted to go ahead and attack it, but I decide not to. I don't have any MA armies at full health. The only fully healthy armies I've got on this landmass are tank & cavs, not so good against mechs in metros.

I'm 37 tiles from domination at this point. Was it Howard Cosell that used to say? He. Could. Go. All. The. Way!

In 1822, I investigate Camulodunum again. 6 turns until Manhattan is complete. 3 mechs and 6 TOW.

New Gewauga 3 is founded. 64%, 31 tiles to domination. If MapStat is right and I really am 31 tiles from domination, I can win the game by kicking the Celts off this landmass. I've counted the tiles.

I check with my military advisor. I'm strong compared to everyone. The Celts are down to a total of 10 mechs. The Russians still have 58 mechs, but I don't think I'll ever have to face those.

1822 IBT: Again, no Celtic counterattack. I think the wind has been taken out of Celtic sails, militarily speaking anyway. Culturally, they are now at 97,967. MapStat says they're at 121 culture points per turn. I calculate 186 since the last turn, but I don't expect them to win by culture, regardless of whehter they're making 186 or 121 culture points per turn. The Celtic mortality rate is simply too high. The Russians have ~55K in culture. They can't make it to 100K before I hit 66%, either.

1824 AD:

An investigation of Gergovia reveals 2 mech infantry and 3 tows.

New Goigoien 3 is founded.
Gergovia is captured. 65%

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/2395/14gergovia.jpg (http://img502.imageshack.us/i/14gergovia.jpg/)

New Kawauka 3 is founded.
Agedincum is captured. 66%

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/2924/15agedincum.jpg (http://img33.imageshack.us/i/15agedincum.jpg/)

I sure would like to go ahead and capture Camulodunum, though. After some consideration, I decide to risk it. Camulodunum sits on a hill, so it is a costly batle for me. Nonetheless:

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3150/16camulodunum.jpg (http://img10.imageshack.us/i/16camulodunum.jpg/)

That removes the last of the Celts from this landmass. So, I've stockpiled a few settlers and then:
New Kente 3 is founded.
New Kiohero 3 is founded.
New Owego 3 is founded.
New Neodakheat 3 is founded.
New Oiogoien 3 is founded.
New Skannayutenate 3 is founded.
New Onnontare 3 is founded.

There. The last of the Celtic landmass is mine. That puts me at 68%. If I hold it all through the IBT, then this game is over. CivAssist 2, MapStat and the game all agree that I'm over the domination limit.

So, I hit enter and:

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9352/17verulamiumflips.jpg (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/17verulamiumflips.jpg/)

Verulamium flips. Wouldn't you know it? It's not enough to stop my victory, though!

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8030/18victory.jpg (http://img27.imageshack.us/i/18victory.jpg/)

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/2535/19victoriousf8.jpg (http://img202.imageshack.us/i/19victoriousf8.jpg/)

I'm really glad that I went ahead and took Camulodunum and planted those extra towns. If I hadn't, I still would have won, but it might have taken an extra turn or two.

I'll say this one time: I HAVE DEFEATED DEMIGOD AND I ROCK! Now that I've said that, though, my heartfelt thanks to all who followed, read, and offered advice. I'm not sure I could have done this, and I can promise you all that it would not have been nearly as enjoyable, without you. :hatsoff:

Congrats, yeah you could have done it.

AFAIK, MapStat gives you PRECISE information on the domination limit (given that you have the entire map revealed), but not so precise information on total culture. I know in my Deity histographic game MapStat told me I had some 5 or so tiles, I planted a city to sit I think 1 tile under the domination limit, and I stayed there without going over for hundreds of years.

Good job and a great read!

:woohoo: :dance: :banana:

Congratz man. :)

:goodjob:WTG, man!:goodjob: You are the :king: of storytelling and kicking DG at the same time. I have beat DG once, but not while writing about it too.:eek:

gratz, dude.

Nice one, Aabra, and an enthralling read!

gratulations on your victory, Aabra, and especially thanks for sharing it with us.

templar_x

Wow. Nice story. I have yet to play demigod and I am in awe.:bowdown:

I'll say this one time: I HAVE DEFEATED DEMIGOD AND I ROCK!


Indeed! :hatsoff: What a long and winding road; what an epic game. It's a shame the mods don't upkeep the legendary games index because this win, at demigod, certainly ranks right up with the best of them.

I really love the fight against time at the endgame.

This game does NOT rank up with almost all of the games in the legendary archive, which almost all came, at least prima facie, as more difficult AND also better played (once we agree on an idea of "better play"). This doesn't take away from Aabraxan's game, it just puts it in proper perspective. He won, sure, but it's more like he won a three-game regular season series of baseball than the World Series.

Aabra!!! Congratulations, my friend. I'm subscribed to your thread and have been following it all the way. Way to go!!! :goodjob:

:hatsoff: Well done, well written!

This game does NOT rank up with almost all of the games in the legendary archive, which almost all came, at least prima facie, as more difficult AND also better played (once we agree on an idea of "better play"). This doesn't take away from Aabraxan's game, it just puts it in proper perspective. He won, sure, but it's more like he won a three-game regular season series of baseball than the World Series.

Thank you for sharing this with us Spoonwood. Like not. I really felt a strong urge to just copy and paste this text into your HOF thread, with the proper name switch of course, and changing from singular to plural.

It's a real pity that you do not have to seem the decency to shut up every now an then and make you own opinion, or being right or wrong, less important than spoiling the party or not.

Hear hear, especially when this game was at least finished and only someones opinion of their enjoyment of the game was expressed.

This game does NOT rank up with almost all of the games in the legendary archive, which almost all came, at least prima facie, as more difficult AND also better played (once we agree on an idea of "better play"). This doesn't take away from Aabraxan's game, it just puts it in proper perspective. He won, sure, but it's more like he won a three-game regular season series of baseball than the World Series.

With all due respect, excellence of gameplay or height of difficulty level isn't the only thing that makes a thread worth hailing. This is well written--it's an engaging game and a fun read. Plus Aabraxan stuck through with this story for 18 months. In my book, a well written completed game oughta be archived in the "library" called legendary games. Your mileage may vary.

As MSTK wrote in his post starting the archive...
1) The story must be based on a Civilization 3 experience (or any of its expansions).
2) The story must be told and written as a form of entertainment for the reader in art form, told not as a game but as a story.
3) The story must be "well-written". This means, basically, the storywriter must display a basic knowledge of the English language.
4) The story must be popular, or it must have many people praising it or its writer.
5) In order for a story to qualify, it must reach at least 10,000 page views.

This story doesn't have the 10,000 views yet, but that criterion was set back when this was a much more active forum. 8000 page views is one hell of a benchmark.

Congrats Aabra. i have really enjoyed this game. You are right - You rock!!!

:banana:

I think a game like this deserves kudos for several reasons: Aabraxan had the character to stick with and finish this, whereas many others abandoned ship on their stories; he had the guts to try a new level in front of an audience, and he wasn't afraid to ask for advice; It was well-written in a very reader-friendly style; and basically, he is a good guy that did well. Noles tes Bastardus Carborundum, buddy.

BTW, I don't know latin and it is from a story, so I can't verify its' accuracy.

I really felt a strong urge to just copy and paste this text into your HOF thread, with the proper name switch of course, and changing from singular to plural.

I don't believe myself or anyone else has compared my games to the games in the legendary games thread, and I don't really know if any of them fit in that class either.

It's a real pity that you do not have to seem the decency to shut up every now an then and make you own opinion, or being right or wrong, less important than spoiling the party or not.

I don't see any party in some sort of scheme that classes a game into a class greater than where it should lie. Your entire comment reads as if I said something strongly negative about Aabraxan's game. I did NOT. I said it did NOT belong in a class with that of the legendary games. I then compared it with a winning a regular season series in baseball, which players and fans do enjoy.

Hear hear, especially when this game was at least finished and only someones opinion of their enjoyment of the game was expressed.

No, BuckyRea said It's a shame the mods don't upkeep the legendary games index because this win, at demigod, certainly ranks right up with the best of them. That's more than just enjoyment, but an evaluation of the game. For reference purposes: The legendary games index (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=106017).

With all due respect, excellence of gameplay or height of difficulty level isn't the only thing that makes a thread worth hailing. This is well written--it's an engaging game and a fun read.

I very much agree with this. Tomoyo, the creator of the legendary games index, wrote These games were so chosen because either:

a) It was the first game of a certain difficulty level or variant to be won, which, at the time it was played, was considered impossible.
b) It featured a brilliant comeback.
c) The simple elegance/spirit of the game made it an everyday (using the term loosely) term, such as FRFR, or The Defiant Nationalists.

As MSTK wrote in his post starting the archive
1) The story must be based on a Civilization 3 experience (or any of its expansions).
2) The story must be told and written as a form of entertainment for the reader in art form, told not as a game but as a story.
3) The story must be "well-written". This means, basically, the storywriter must display a basic knowledge of the English language.
4) The story must be popular, or it must have many people praising it or its writer.
5) In order for a story to qualify, it must reach at least 10,000 page views.

That's NOT from the legendary games index (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=106017). That's from The Archive of Legendary Civ Stories (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=123736). I do agree it belongs in that class.

Good clarification.

Despite Spoonwood's apparent unwillingness, or perhaps inability, to congratulate me on my first DG win, I think he's probably right. I don't know where he found Tomoyo's guidelines for the Archive of Legendary games, but the ones he attributed to Tomoyo seem to fit the games listed there. Aabra-cadaabra doesn't seem to fit those requirements.

And while I appreciate everyone's enthusiasm, I don't think this fits in the Archive of Legendary Civ Stories, either. Here's why:

. . . . I will not hold strict prerequisites for qualification, but here are the basic guidelines:

1) The story must be based on a Civilization 3 experience (or any of its expansions).
2) The story must be told and written as a form of entertainment for the reader in art form, told not as a game but as a story.
3) The story must be "well-written". This means, basically, the storywriter must display a basic knowledge of the English language.
4) The story must be popular, or it must have many people praising it or its writer.
5) In order for a story to qualify, it must reach at least 10,000 page views.

. . . .

(Emphasis supplied). Aabra-cadaabra was written as a game, not as a story. However, I am very gratified to know how many people enjoyed this. I vaguely remember passing 6,000 page views, but didn't realize that I has passed the 8,000 mark.

As far as sticking it out for 18 months, I like to call that "persistence." My wife likes to call it Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. :p This one was lots of fun to play and, I have to say that it won't be my last visit to DG. Eventually, I plan to beat Sid, but I'm going to spend some time at DG before making that leap. I like to win, but I also enjoy games where I have to dig myself out of a hole, preferably a deep one.

With all of that said, I'd like to let you all in on a little secret: I've already begun planning my next game & story. The next one will be written as a story, and I've had this one in mind for quite some time. It will be called The Clone Wars. It's going to be an All-War Monarch game on a standard-sized Pangaea map against all of the agricultural civilizations, with Respawn on. Wouldn't you know it? There are exactly seven agricultural civs (Inca, Maya, Celts, Dutch, Sumerians, Aztecs, and Iroquois), so guess who does not get to play agri. :D I hope that you'll all join me for the ride.

I doubt that most of us were saying we support adding to the list. That is not for me to say, yes or no. What we are saying, I think, is jumping out to throw water on BuckRea that thought is should be, is not really appreciated.

It does not matter, if he was a bit over excited. What Spoonwood did was spoil the thread for everyone. I suspect to just to make yourself feel important, but I could be wrong again. ThinkTank was pointing out how many have noticed this tendancy in the past and find it unattractive.

That did not deter you, so you did what I figured you would and that is to post a long reponse to justify borish behavior. In the end making this thread another one I can no longer look at as I do not want to hear more.

Despite Spoonwood's apparent unwillingness, or perhaps inability, to congratulate me on my first DG win, I think he's probably right.

I did congratulate you. I don't feel like quoting myself about the comparison to a baseball series, but it's more the degree AND type of praise your game and write-up deserve. Tomoyo's guidelines appear in post # 75 of The Legendary Games Index thread.

And while I appreciate everyone's enthusiasm, I don't think this fits in the Archive of Legendary Civ Stories, either....

True enough, but if you scroll down the page you'll find that he includes BasketCase's game and acknowledges it doesn't exactly fit either. So, I'd include your write-up there, even though it doesn't fit criteria 2.

It does not matter, if he was a bit over excited. What you did was spoil the thread for everyone. I suspect to just to make yourself feel important, but I could be wrong again. ThinkTank was pointing out how many have noticed this tendancy in the past and find it unattractive.

We certainly haven't surveyed everyone who's read the thread, and your "everyone" doesn't include me or seem to include Aabraxan now since he said he probably agreed with me. CommandoBob also said "good clarification". Maybe it spoils the thread for you personally though, because you haven't read carefully what I've said or others now have said though, but that's hardly "everyone".

That did not deter you, so you did what I figured you would and that is to post a long reponse to justify borish behavior. In the end making this thread another one I can no longer look at as I do not want to hear more.

It didn't deter me, and consequently from BuckyRea's quote of criteria it now appears he MEANT TO SAY "The Archive of Legendary Civ Stories" instead of "The Legendary Games Index". So, basically what I wrote ended up in a clarification of (the intent of) his comment.

That's NOT from the legendary games index (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=106017). That's from The Archive of Legendary Civ Stories (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=123736). I do agree it belongs in that class.

Wait a minute. You start up this microflamery with your, frankly, ill tempered comments... all because I confused the word game with the word story? Really? :lol:

Why hasn't Jacob Marley paid you a visit yet?

Bottom line: Abra, you did a great job. I might've even learned a thing or two along the way.

With all of that said, I'd like to let you all in on a little secret: I've already begun planning my next game & story. The next one will be written as a story, and I've had this one in mind for quite some time. It will be called The Clone Wars.. It's going to be an All-War Monarch game on a standard-sized Pangaea map against all of the agricultural civilizations, with Respawn on. Wouldn't you know it? There are exactly seven agricultural civs (Inca, Maya, Celts, Dutch, Sumerians, Aztecs, and Iroquois), so guess who does not get to play agri. :D I hope that you'll all join me for the ride.


I can't wait for this to start. I love to follow AW games even if I can't play them :goodjob:

And I still name all of my capital cities after you... ok so it's the double A but I borrowed it from you. :lol:

It matters not a jot whether or not this was a 'legendary' game in the strictest sense of the word - to Aabra it will always be a legendary game because it was his first win on DG, and as his friends, we share his joy at such a landmark achievement. To do otherwise would be churlish.

It matters not a jot whether or not this was a 'legendary' game in the strictest sense of the word - to Aabra it will always be a legendary game because it was his first win on DG, and as his friends, we share his joy at such a landmark achievement. To do otherwise would be churlish.

Well said.

Well, except for that churlish part--them's dicshunary words. ;)

Isn't churling an Olympic sport?

You start up this microflamery with your, frankly, ill tempered comments... all because I confused the word game with the word story? Really?

More like I misunderstood what you meant. I find my comments and tone appropriate for what you actually said, since it would have devalued the Legendary Games Index. I didn't find them angry and such, but if that came across that way, to quote Aristotle "Anybody can become angry, that is easy; but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree, and at the right time, and for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not within everybody's power, that is not easy."

I completely agree with Bucephalus.

Anyway, for any who might be interested, I have started the next story: The Clone Wars (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=356496).

what an epic tale, I LOVED IT!!!!!! :D

A very enjoyable read, Aabra. :goodjob: Please allow me to add my congratulations, albeit a little later than most. I'll try and do a better job of keeping up with the next one.

Thank you, Tone. Better late than never. ;)

Thank you aabra,

I just finished reading the whole topic and it was awesome. I liked it a lot and congrats on your victory.(even if it is a bit late.) I hope one day that I can make such a wonderful game too. So now on to the clone wars!

Isn't churling an Olympic sport?

its curling ;)

I thought it was hurling. Or maybe twirling. ;)

hurling

:rotfl:

:lol:

I only discovered this thread today. Congrats on your DG victory, Aabra! :salute:

Thanks, E!