Very good mod :goodjob: . Also there is great support here on the forums as my CTD got solved by the guys in less then 2 hours :eek: .
One thing I might comment on is the time speed. I don't seem to manage getting to the right eras in the correct time frame.
Without putting game speed : 1900 AD I am around medieval age and AI is somewhere just entering medieval.

With Snail speed : 1900 AD Still in classical period and some AI even just entering it.

What is the best game speed or what changes can I make so I can at least advance properly

Mention : on the first scenario (without selecting a speed) I did from start to 1900AD almost one tech per round and still wasn't enough. I went tech research all the way. On snail I wait for 14-24 turns at the beggining to research anything because of 1 town 1 pop until I advance food stuff.

Very good mod :goodjob: . Also there is great support here on the forums as my CTD got solved by the guys in less then 2 hours :eek: .
One thing I might comment on is the time speed. I don't seem to manage getting to the right eras in the correct time frame.
Without putting game speed : 1900 AD I am around medieval age and AI is somewhere just entering medieval.

With Snail speed : 1900 AD Still in classical period and some AI even just entering it.

What is the best game speed or what changes can I make so I can at least advance properly

Mention : on the first scenario (without selecting a speed) I did from start to 1900AD almost one tech per round and still wasn't enough. I went tech research all the way. On snail I wait for 14-24 turns at the beggining to research anything because of 1 town 1 pop until I advance food stuff.

Um, most of the feedback has been that the new Snail has been too fast, as opposed to too slow. What version are you playing?

Does having your leaders favorite civic/religion give you some sort of bonus or are favorites just used for AI interactions?

Um, most of the feedback has been that the new Snail has been too fast, as opposed to too slow. What version are you playing?

The latest one. I downloaded on 30th of March. I am not a pro player but I do know the game pretty well (been playing Civ since 2 back in the 90s ) . And I usually have around 12-15 cities at around 25 pop in medieval age.

@modders Hi guys,

FYI, I have reached the point where I can no longer play C2C due to the graphics load. This means I will not be able to test some things when I add new stuff.:(

My current work around to keep playing has been to remove all the new civilisations and all the culture units. BTW @ls612 when I removed your normal units folder I got a few XML errors. Don't know if you want to fix that.

I am going to have to work on a graphics lite version of C2C which will also mean a cut down version of the animals. Probably only having one or two art defines for all bears for example or maybe just reducing the number of animals in game like I suggested earlier.

Either that or I a going to have to upgrade my machine against the advice of my retailer who reckons my machine should be fine to run an old game like Civ IV.

@modders Hi guys,

FYI, I have reached the point where I can no longer play C2C due to the graphics load. This means I will not be able to test some things when I add new stuff.:(

My current work around to keep playing has been to remove all the new civilisations and all the culture units. BTW @ls612 when I removed your normal units folder I got a few XML errors. Don't know if you want to fix that.

I am going to have to work on a graphics lite version of C2C which will also mean a cut down version of the animals. Probably only having one or two art defines for all bears for example or maybe just reducing the number of animals in game like I suggested earlier.

Either that or I a going to have to upgrade my machine against the advice of my retailer who reckons my machine should be fine to run an old game like Civ IV.

Sorry if you've posted this before, but what are your comp specs?

Edit: The XML errors would be caused by the fact that the Riot Police unit in the Core upgrades to the Police Car unit, in my module. That would mean that removing my NormalUnits module will cause an XML error. Not certain if anything can be done about that though.

Windows XP SP3 (32bit), Intel Duo CPU @3GHz, /3Gb switch on, nvida GeForce 9600 GT

Windows XP SP3 (32bit), Intel Duo CPU @3GHz, /3Gb switch on, nvida GeForce 9600 GT

That seems very odd, my comp is Windows Vista SP2 (32bit), Intel Core Duo @1.86GHz with the 3Gig switch and crappy Intel Integrated graphics. On this old rig I can run C2C with low settings on Huge maps. So, my next question would be have you checked your graphics drivers to see that they are up to date?

Windows XP SP3 (32bit), Intel Duo CPU @3GHz, /3Gb switch on, nvida GeForce 9600 GT

I have exactly the same as you except I have an ATI Video Card.

Note that Giant maps crash my game and I have been able to play on large maps recently (before it was only standard maps).

I suspect your problem is with the video card. I forget which brand it was but one I had before was all wonky with my system even though it was a new card. Now my ATI video card works great despite having XP and and old CPU.

Windows XP SP3 (32bit), Intel Duo CPU @3GHz, /3Gb switch on, nvida GeForce 9600 GT

Only thing i can see, are the ones i marked in red, otherwise, very nice g card.

The 512mb is most likely the culprit. My HD 4650 had 512 DDR2 and was good until version 18 then I started getting graphics crashes. Went to a R6450 with 2GB DDR3 and has been fine so far. Got the card for $69 @Newegg. Don't know if Newegg sells in the down under land though? Hmmm.

JosEPh

Got 512MB myself and since the show building change I never got an MAF/video memory error/DX crash on large map well into Industrial era. Playing now for around 2000 turns on giant and no crash either.

I have 512mb aswell and never got mafs or other related issues ...

Didn't SO post a few pages back how to properly set up nVidia cards for C2C? At least, I think it was nVidia. I still bet though a driver will help.

I have the latest drivers.

Maybe I got a bad one. Every now and then I need to reboot the machine because the graphics glitch affects everything else. EG no thumbnails display here. Title bar on every window application is transparent.

@DH,
Is the vid card overheating? Good air flow thru PC? Adequate fans? Card seated fully in PCI slot?

JosEPh

I have the latest drivers.

Maybe I got a bad one. Every now and then I need to reboot the machine because the graphics glitch affects everything else. EG no thumbnails display here. Title bar on every window application is transparent.

Yeah you have a decent card, just dont understand mainly whats going on, when was the last time you did a defragment and error fixing on your PC?

Where can I activate multiple production? Great mod, by the way. Looks like it took a LOT of time to make.

Where can I activate multiple production? Great mod, by the way. Looks like it took a LOT of time to make.

Start custom game/custom scenario - it is a game option in the lower right (scroll down quite a bit).

And the mod isn't finished yet. everybody - playtester or coder - is welcome to help to continuously improve it. Have fun! :viking:

Where can I activate multiple production? Great mod, by the way. Looks like it took a LOT of time to make.

You go custom game - when you are starting. There all the modmod options are listed.


I have the latest drivers.

Maybe I got a bad one. Every now and then I need to reboot the machine because the graphics glitch affects everything else. EG no thumbnails display here. Title bar on every window application is transparent.

Yes it is bad, :) its 5 years old.. :mischief:
Go here:

Fyshwick Branch
75-77 Collie Street, Fyshwick, ACT 2609
M-F: 10:30AM-6:30PM
Sat: 10:30AM-2:00PM
Tel: (02) 6239 1011
email: fyshwick@msy.com.au

http://www.msy.com.au/Parts/PARTS.pdf

buy one of these perhaps
ATI
1G 6790 HIS $122
or a newer model-
1GB 770 Sapphire / Powercolor / HIS / Gigabyte / Asus $162 /$160 /$162 /$169 /$181
Or Nvidia Chipset
1G GTX550 Gainward /Inno3D / Gigabyte / Asus $116 /$119 /$124 /$128

Think about it, is your time worth $120?

CPU

Intel i5-2500 - $202

@Sgtslick no you shouldn't especially given where I used to work. I am retired now and have to pace myself when it come to upgrades.

You go custom game - when you are starting. There all the modmod options are listed.

Oh. Thanks!

@Sgtslick no you shouldn't especially given where I used to work. I am retired now and have to pace myself when it come to upgrades.

well geez, your welcome :rolleyes:

Hey guys! Nice to see you all again. We recently downloaded the latest SVN update and started up a new hotseat game and I must say... I'm really impressed with all you've done since I was last here.

Sorry for vanishing for a bit (again) but we went down to one computer for a long time there and it has made finding time for being online in any fashion pretty rough (as well as even playing the game as hotseat is... erm... slow.)

So we've been taking a bit of a break from civ entirely. And admittedly, work is picking up and time is still a bit squeezed. But we've been finding some time to play lately so I'll be coming in and making some commentary and feedback more frequently now. As for doing much on the modding side... I'm not sure I can fit much in at the moment but we'll see. Historically, the more I play, the more I want to help with the modding itself. I know last time I wanted to do a lot more than I found I actually could.

But anyhow, so far, wow. So much improved balance, expansion on units and game features... it just keeps getting better and better! The crime system is really neat the way we have it now. The scouting/hunting progression is really quite perfect and the variety of animals and what you can now do with them is really wonderful. The heroes and culture developments are greatly improved. The new early naval units are a great touch. The AI is greatly improved and the game dynamics as a whole is really just a continuing perfecting masterpiece. All in all, I'm in awe of how many ideas I've sent forward have been implemented and put in play perfectly.

Reading through the forums I'm seeing a lot of interesting debates and concepts which I may chime in on soon... still trying to catch up and figure out what is currently an issue and what is not. Once I have a more clear idea I'll have more to say I'm sure.

DH... quitting the team to go your own way without expressing what we should be working on to get ourselves 'back on the rails'? Really? That would seem a tragic way for us to go considering I've always thought the teamwork here was so much of what makes this mod so amazing and have always considered you a big part of the core of that team. This mod still has a lot of tweaking yet to go I'm sure, and a lot of potential for constant expansive growth in concepts. It would be rough for the team to lose you buddy!

Anyhow, I'll start making some points here and there but I just wanted to preface any of that with a 'glad to be back' message first. You guys have been doing an amazing job!

Glad to see you around Thunderbrd. We would love to have you back in any capacity, even if its just playing C2C for your own enjoyment. ;)

So is anyone going to mail DH a 4 core processor and a bunch of ram. :) I bought a 1 gig graphic card for 110 and it clocks 900gpu. I wish I could help but I am poor myself. I finally got a job though so maybe sometime I could help when I catch things up.

So is anyone going to mail DH a 4 core processor and a bunch of ram. :) I bought a 1 gig graphic card for 110 and it clocks 900gpu. I wish I could help but I am poor myself. I finally got a job though so maybe sometime I could help when I catch things up.

A 4 core processor would help him precisely not at all. Civ is utterly dingle-threaded.

A 4 core processor would help him precisely not at all. Civ is utterly dingle-threaded.

ok. So a video card then and some ram? I do notice though that with the dual core on this mod the turns where a lot slower as opposed to the 4 core which seemed to be much faster on turn waits. But maybe that has to do with ddr2 ram vs dd3 ram. So video card then he needs?

At the moment I would go with AMDs Radeon 7750 if there are no games like Bf3/Crysis involved. Very low power consumption in 2D, good overall speed and not too expensive. If there are games that need a little more power then the 7850.

If Civ4 can actually make use of 2GB graphics RAM then older cards like 6670 with 2GB are an option although that comes at a price. They use low clock GDDR3 memory instead of GDDR5 (or GDDR3 with higher clock) and are thereby often slower than their 1GB counterparts.

Nvidia cards comparable to 7750/7850 are GTX550 Ti or GTX560 (this card has a ****load of different versions, thx nvidia). In a few months Nvidia will release new low and midrange cards of their new Kepler chip which are on par with AMDs 7xxx series.

Nvidia cards comparable to 7750/7850 are GTX550 Ti or GTX560 (this card has a ****load of different versions, thx nvidia). In a few months Nvidia will release new low and midrange cards of their new Kepler chip which are on par with AMDs 7xxx series.


I have the nvidia 2 GB GT 540M (with up to 3765 MB turbocache) in my laptop and it runs very well, there is nearly no speed difference to turns if firefox and VLC video running at same time with Civ4 GEM. Only had 2-3 CTD/MAFs the last months.

At the moment I would go with AMDs Radeon 7750 if there are no games like Bf3/Crysis involved. Very low power consumption in 2D, good overall speed and not too expensive. If there are games that need a little more power then the 7850.

Definitely YES!! You can control what the performance of your card is with this series.

Crash Report

I have CTD when trying to build the Nautilus submarine.

Savegame here

Logs here

Redo CTD: Go to Prague and select Nautilus in the buildmenu.

(I have made some small changes to buildings and promotions in a separate modfolder on my comp, but they are simple XML-changes and shouldn't have influence)

Thanks in advance :goodjob:

Crash Report


All Bugs/Crashes need to go here, thx.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=457488&page=11

Crash Report

I have CTD when trying to build the Nautilus submarine.

Savegame here

Logs here

Redo CTD: Go to Prague and select Nautilus in the buildmenu.

(I have made some small changes to buildings and promotions in a separate modfolder on my comp, but they are simple XML-changes and shouldn't have influence)

Thanks in advance :goodjob:

I *think* I may have finally fixed this, see the Bugs and Crashes thread.

I've been playing this on and off for a couple weeks now, actually, but Civilization 4: Caveman 2 Cosmos.

C2C is a mod for Civ 4 which... well. Huge would be an understatement. The current version (v22, and it gets updated about once a month or so) has 420 techs in the tech tree, over 500 different units, dozens more resources, has about doubled the list of available civs... The game now goes from 12,000 BC (learning how to smash rocks together and make grunting sounds mean something) well into the future, with techs like Time Travel (which is still several steps down from the end of the tech tree). They've also added "alternate history" techs like Megacavalry (Mammoth riders, Rhinocerous cavalry), Steampunk, and others. Hunters can subdue and domesticate animals (of which there are a huge variety), barbarian cities can develop into their own civs, great people can place resources on the map... There's 12 different categories of civics, with between 8 and 12 options for each... It's not even really a mod or expansion to Civ 4 any more, it's an entirely different game which just happens to play very similarly.

And it's extremely fun.

Source: Jondera @ D&D Online Games.com (http://www.dndonlinegames.com/showthread.php?p=4922375#post4922375)

The word is spreading! :D

Just thought I should let you know, I really enjoy your mod, but I noticed a glitch. If you hold shift, you can spam multiple butcher orders from the same animal. The spam applies for the add tale and animal vs animal/man option. This also applies to founding/spreading multiple religions with divine prophets. That aside, great mod, keep up the good work!

Well, I see that everyone's praising this fine mod, but I'm facing some serious issues. I've started like 10 games so far, and once I even got to 1900 A.D., and had not reached the bronze age! I usually play on normal, sometimes on warlord.
So, why is that?!
I have version 20.
Other civilizations hadn't reached it either, although I unticked "raging A.I." (or something like that). But I don't think that's it!
Is there a big bug, that everyone's missing?
Thanks!

play a 'custom game'/ 'custom scenario' (for earth maps)

Uncheck "time victory". And don't play on normal speed.
The Mod is made for slower speeds.

EDIT: yeah slower... :drool: :smoke:

Is there any way to import other maps to this mod?

Btw DJRJ I think you mean to say the mod is for slower speeds.

Well, I see that everyone's praising this fine mod, but I'm facing some serious issues. I've started like 10 games so far, and once I even got to 1900 A.D., and had not reached the bronze age! I usually play on normal, sometimes on warlord.
So, why is that?!
I have version 20.
Other civilizations hadn't reached it either, although I unticked "raging A.I." (or something like that). But I don't think that's it!
Is there a big bug, that everyone's missing?
Thanks!

First of all, we highly reccomend that you use a current version, as every month we add art, units, features, and fix any bugs we find. We're at version 22.1 in the downloads section.
Second, this mod does not support anything over Epic in speeds. This game is esaily 4 times as large as normal civ4, and will never match up in dates if you play on normal :).
Also if you don't play on Time Victory, then you shouldn't be forced to end your game prematurely because of the date.

Meaning?
English is not my native language, but still...
This doesn't support anything OVER Epic speeds... Did you mean OVER Epic, as in "down the list" (quick, blitz), or over epic, larger time span, as in "up the list" (epic -> eternity) ?
Secondly: So, if I uncheck Time Victory, it will WHAT happen? Personally, I don't like time victory, it puts extra stress.
Thanks!

Meaning?
English is not my native language, but still...
This doesn't support anything OVER Epic speeds... Did you mean OVER Epic, as in "down the list" (quick, blitz), or over epic, larger time span, as in "up the list" (epic -> eternity) ?
Secondly: So, if I uncheck Time Victory, it will WHAT happen? Personally, I don't like time victory, it puts extra stress.
Thanks!

He means it doesn't support faster speeds. You should only play on slower speeds meaning Epic to Eternity. :goodjob:

Download is apparently down.

Download is apparently down.

SVN (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10651778&postcount=1) is never down. It has always the newest daily features (for example Koshling added a game option to double the speed of early turns 2 days ago which the normal dl doesn't have yet).

Does anyone know a way to import maps into C2C? :please:

Does anyone know a way to import maps into C2C? :please:

What kind of maps are you talking about first?

What kind of maps are you talking about first?

A standard or small size Earth map ( So I get decent turn speeds). I don't mind it not having the added terrain in the mod.

Meaning?
English is not my native language, but still...
This doesn't support anything OVER Epic speeds... Did you mean OVER Epic, as in "down the list" (quick, blitz), or over epic, larger time span, as in "up the list" (epic -> eternity) ?
Secondly: So, if I uncheck Time Victory, it will WHAT happen? Personally, I don't like time victory, it puts extra stress.
Thanks!

C2C is not balanced or set up to played in anything faster then Epic, so we recommend using only Epic and Slower speeds. Try Marathon speed. :)
Time victory, Ends the game at a certain date, and the person with the highest score wins... Don't use that function, or you will probably be forced to win or lose far before you finish the tech timeline. Plus I hate time victories.

SVN (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10651778&postcount=1) is never down. It has always the newest daily features (for example Koshling added a game option to double the speed of early turns 2 days ago which the normal dl doesn't have yet).

Having now acctual download is still rather inconvenient imho.

FYI for everyone.

Don't use 'start as minors' option if you want a challenging game!

It's been reported that in GEM games lots of civs seem to go turtle, and just hunker down in their starting city, not hunting effectively.

This is because they are at war, and they are all trying to not fall behind in pure military power. This has a number of effects:

They don't stop to build 'frivolous' things, like explorers and animal hunting units!
They don't build economy buildings as quickly as they otherwise would (or sometimes at all if they start to fall behind in military power)
They over-expand their military. Not to an extent they cannot finanically support it at all (just to an extent that would be reasonable in a 'real' war), but to the extent that they cripple their science output, which creates a vicious circle
Depending on starting location, eventually a civ may get a sufficient military multiple on its neighbours to actually attack, which tends to result in a runaway dominant AI in that area. Mostly however, they tend to all stagnate together


This leaves the human player laughing (especially if they are geograpically somewhat isolated like being on an island), and makes for a very easily won game

Sometime I'll fix it, but doing so won't be trivial because it will require the AI to have a concept of different 'levels' of war. Obviosuly the 'passive' war that start as minors introduces is not really the same as a 'hot' war later in the game, so the AI will need to respond differently.

For now I strongly advise against 'start as minors'.

I've started a few games recently (all with start as minors) and the AI seemed to handly itself reasonably well in some, but in my latest one it's 5000BC and I'm already well ahead. I thought it was to do with the change in the animals (returning directly to the cities) but now it makes more sense. I almost never see the units of other civs, in fact I can't recall the last time I saw one. Also my hunters are finding lots of creatures near the cities of my enemies when I would expect their hunters to be killing most of them. Unless of course they don't have any hunters!

I was thinking with the code, would it be possible to link the AI to gaining the writing tech, so that the AI would approach the constant 'war' before writing differently from the wars after it.

FYI for everyone.

Don't use 'start as minors' option if you want a challenging game!

It's been reported that in GEM games lots of civs seem to go turtle, and just hunker down in their starting city, not hunting effectively.

This is because they are at war, and they are all trying to not fall behind in pure military power. This has a number of effects:

They don't stop to build 'frivolous' things, like explorers and animal hunting units!
They don't build economy buildings as quickly as they otherwise would (or sometimes at all if they start to fall behind in military power)
They over-expand their military. Not to an extent they cannot finanically support it at all (just to an extent that would be reasonable in a 'real' war), but to the extent that they cripple their science output, which creates a vicious circle
Depending on starting location, eventually a civ may get a sufficient military multiple on its neighbours to actually attack, which tends to result in a runaway dominant AI in that area. Mostly however, they tend to all stagnate together


This leaves the human player laughing (especially if they are geograpically somewhat isolated like being on an island), and makes for a very easily won game

Sometime I'll fix it, but doing so won't be trivial because it will require the AI to have a concept of different 'levels' of war. Obviosuly the 'passive' war that start as minors introduces is not really the same as a 'hot' war later in the game, so the AI will need to respond differently.

For now I strongly advise against 'start as minors'.

lol, I picked start as minors to have a challenge, as I wanted to be able to trade techs only once I had writing, not once another nation has writing. While in normal games the techleader gets writing and I get techs from him by trading gatherers/contacts well before I researched writing myself... so it's just to make it a bit harder for me now it turns out the minor start option is actually easier.. :sad:

One additional info: even in start as minor games there can be a handful of civs having a "normal" economy without too much military. I don't know what factors aside from location (not too close to other civ?) count for that but on GEM I had Mali and Mongolia with normal economies at start as minors.

I was thinking with the code, would it be possible to link the AI to gaining the writing tech, so that the AI would approach the constant 'war' before writing differently from the wars after it.

One of the things I have been looking at is some "minor" changes to diplomacy. In C2C writing is too far down the tech tree and makes "start as minor" last far too long. City states and even nomadic nations had treaties before writing.

On diplomacy, I am going to move the Oratory tech to be only available under the "Advance Diplomacy" option. I am going to make two new unit combat classes UNITCOMBAT_SEA_CREATURE and UNITCOMBAT_DIPLOMAT for the new promotions being defined. :sigh: I am going to have to put back the C2C tag in my signature aren't I.

I've started a few games recently (all with start as minors) and the AI seemed to handly itself reasonably well in some, but in my latest one it's 5000BC and I'm already well ahead. I thought it was to do with the change in the animals (returning directly to the cities) but now it makes more sense. I almost never see the units of other civs, in fact I can't recall the last time I saw one. Also my hunters are finding lots of creatures near the cities of my enemies when I would expect their hunters to be killing most of them. Unless of course they don't have any hunters!

I was thinking with the code, would it be possible to link the AI to gaining the writing tech, so that the AI would approach the constant 'war' before writing differently from the wars after it.

Quite so. Its not a trivial piece of work though, so it probably won't happen for a release or two, so I just wanted to warn people off start-as-minors a bit for now.

One additional info: even in start as minor games there can be a handful of civs having a "normal" economy without too much military. I don't know what factors aside from location (not too close to other civ?) count for that but on GEM I had Mali and Mongolia with normal economies at start as minors.

Yes. This causes isolated civs to race ahead economically and just adds to the imbalance. Isolated civs with decent amounts of territory especially so (hence the way Australia used to be before a second civ was added there)

FYI for everyone.

For now I strongly advise against 'start as minors'.

:( I always liked minor civ, from when was first introduced in RoM/AND.

One of the things I have been looking at is some "minor" changes to diplomacy. In C2C writing is too far down the tech tree and makes "start as minor" last far too long. City states and even nomadic nations had treaties before writing.

On diplomacy, I am going to move the Oratory tech to be only available under the "Advance Diplomacy" option. I am going to make two new unit combat classes UNITCOMBAT_SEA_CREATURE and UNITCOMBAT_DIPLOMAT for the new promotions being defined. :sigh: I am going to have to put back the C2C tag in my signature aren't I.

Do you think Open Boarders and Closed Borders civics should be moved to Oratory tech too?

Do you think Open Boarders and Closed Borders civics should be moved to Oratory tech too?

Not if I am going to make it require the game option Advance Diplomacy on.

Not if I am going to make it require the game option Advance Diplomacy on.

So Oratory is going to be an optional tech? :(

So Oratory is going to be an optional tech? :(

Why not insurance and the rest of the Advanced Economy tech are. It is a whole new branch of diplomacy. Diplomacy with barbarians (Barbarian Envoy mod) and goody villages (WLBO mod), plus the possibility for other types of diplomatic missions to other nations. Goody Villages would also depend on this option being on.

I just noticed that Advanced Diplomacy is set in both Custom Game options and in BUG options. I am not sure what that means game play wise with optional techs.

Isn't it possible to have the AI see "minor Nations" as Barbarians rather than Nations, at least until they have researched Oratory (or Writing) techs?
Of course a good Human player could use this to great advantage (but we already can as it stands now) as most AI's won't actively hunt down Barbarians (maybe some should anyway, if not all as animals are considered Barbarians too) but it would mean mainly keeping defense rather than overproducing military and not getting those frivolous units going.

Haven't had time to think that one through but putting it out there anyway.

Cheers

Why not insurance and the rest of the Advanced Economy tech are. It is a whole new branch of diplomacy. Diplomacy with barbarians (Barbarian Envoy mod) and goody villages (WLBO mod), plus the possibility for other types of diplomatic missions to other nations. Goody Villages would also depend on this option being on.

I just noticed that Advanced Diplomacy is set in both Custom Game options and in BUG options. I am not sure what that means game play wise with optional techs.

The more techs that are "optional" the harder it is to make sure the tech tree works. It also limits what can interact with them. Personally I want all techs (except alternative timelines) to be non-optional techs.

Please don't make Oratory an optional tech.

We have a hard enough time balancing thing to have them be optional and thus have to balance it both with and without it. Much of the optional settings where it adds core-like stuff (ex. Advanced Economy, Advanced Diplomacy, Advanced Guilds, etc) I think should become core features and then balanced out to C2C.

please give more information about option - "Minimize AI turn time"
it much more faster, but that about AI - how much he has become less intelligent?

The more techs that are "optional" the harder it is to make sure the tech tree works. It also limits what can interact with them. Personally I want all techs (except alternative timelines) to be non-optional techs.

Please don't make Oratory an optional tech.

We have a hard enough time balancing thing to have them be optional and thus have to balance it both with and without it. Much of the optional settings where it adds core-like stuff (ex. Advanced Economy, Advanced Diplomacy, Advanced Guilds, etc) I think should become core features and then balanced out to C2C.

If Advanced Economy etc. become not optional then I won't be playing C2C as I find they reduce the fun.

please give more information about option - "Minimize AI turn time"
it much more faster, but that about AI - how much he has become less intelligent?

As far as I can tell from Koshling's comments, there is no change in AI just in the way the code is processed, ie all at once rather than in bits and peices when you have your turn. It may cause problems with multiplayer because of this which is one reason it is an option.

If Advanced Economy etc. become not optional then I won't be playing C2C as I find they reduce the fun.


Well don't include the Oratory into the Advance Diplomacy then.

Love the mod. Only recently found it, and haven't played a whole game through ... yet, but loving it already.

As to the problem with 'minors' and war status, would it be feasible to add the option to declare peace as an ability of the Cooperation Tech? Yes, it's intended to be in-Tribe, but not being at war with people is a form of cooperation too. If not actually declare peace, then perhaps when that tech is researched finding a new neighbor does not automatically result in war? Obviously that would also have to apply to Non-Player Civs (NPCs) as well or it wouldn't help much. Barbarian cities could still be auto-war though, and probably should be.

One of the things I have been looking at is some "minor" changes to diplomacy. In C2C writing is too far down the tech tree and makes "start as minor" last far too long. City states and even nomadic nations had treaties before writing.

On diplomacy, I am going to move the Oratory tech to be only available under the "Advance Diplomacy" option. I am going to make two new unit combat classes UNITCOMBAT_SEA_CREATURE and UNITCOMBAT_DIPLOMAT for the new promotions being defined. :sigh: I am going to have to put back the C2C tag in my signature aren't I.

That sounds good. I think that to have some kind of early diplomacy would be great. Perhaps there could be time limited truces from say Cooperation, longer truces, something like 'brotherhood agreements' (need a better name here!) at Tribalism, with trading resources becoming possible at Trade and finally, permanent peace treaties and technology trading arriving at Writing.

:agree:

Also, there should be 'signs of goodwill'. For example, you could gift animals you subdued.

Only such animals that allow AI to build a myth or herd it still lacks could be gifted;
you would get a +1 relation for that bonus.

Or if the heiritage/political leaders feature is implemented one day you could offer your youngest daughter -- your warmongering neighbour Chief DirtyMind would be pleased and distracted for a while, that much is for sure! :cool:
[-->Chief PimplePie would not be pleased to get this news as the daughter was espoused to him, and in his nerdy anger he refuses to have any further (tech) trading.]

That way better relations come at the price of a stronger neighbour or less cooperation with an other . The direct relation bonus would vanish after a few hundred years but there would also be a longtermTrust value that could disappear a lot slower, albeit faster the more techs are aquired.

Cooperation is too early I think. Some other prehistoric tech would be good.

I'm playing a new game as ragnar on GEM on immortal difficulty and i have 8 cities (no city restrictions from civics) but most only have 1, some have 2. I think AI needs to prioritize gettings tribes out quicker.

I'm playing a new game as ragnar on GEM on immortal difficulty and i have 8 cities (no city restrictions from civics) but most only have 1, some have 2. I think AI needs to prioritize gettings tribes out quicker.

Hey, how are the turn speeds on that map? I want to download a standard size Earth map (as soon as someone tells me how), because even on huge the first turns take 20 seconds.

since Koshling doubled the turn speed in the svn a couple of days ago currently (around 2500 bc) its probably less than 10 secs b/w turns

since Koshling doubled the turn speed in the svn a couple of days ago currently (around 2500 bc) its probably less than 10 secs b/w turns

What version would I have to have for that? 22?

The absolutely charge-free SVN (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10651778&postcount=1)-version always provides the newest features. :deal:
The latest: faster turntimes, new promotions and a nomad camp test module and about 100 other things I forgot to mention. :smoke:

The absolutely charge-free SVN (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10651778&postcount=1)-version always provides the newest features. :deal:
The latest: faster turntimes, new promotions and a nomad camp test module and about 100 other things I forgot to mention. :smoke:

What is SVN? What are you talking about? :shifty:

its the beta version and gets updated several times everyday with the new popsicles^^
I provided a link in the last post, just follow it (like follow the rabit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANNqr-vcx0) hehe) and you'll be in civ~hipsters heaven lol

its the beta version and gets updated several times everyday with the new popsicles^^
I provided a link in the last post, just follow it (like follow the rabit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANNqr-vcx0) hehe) and you'll be in civ~hipsters heaven lol

What? You aren't making yourself clear. Is this like some sort of expansion to C2C? What is SVN anyway?

Not clear? But it was so obvious or "klar wie Klosbrühe" as we tend to say in Germany (I even included a link in that first post http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10651778&postcount=1:
SVN is the platform which is used to contribute the recent C2C beta.

Hey, how are the turn speeds on that map? I want to download a standard size Earth map (as soon as someone tells me how), because even on huge the first turns take 20 seconds.

There are 2 in the Private Map area already?

see attached where to put them. But if you dont use all the terrain we have, alot of it will not make sense and you will probably not be able to get alot of cultures and Heroes then??

What? You aren't making yourself clear. Is this like some sort of expansion to C2C? What is SVN anyway?

Apache Subversion (often abbreviated SVN, after the command name svn) is a software versioning and revision control system distributed under an open source license. Developers use Subversion to maintain current and historical versions of files such as source code, web pages, and documentation.

Its a program you download, you link it up with the developers svn, and you can get there latest work as it happens, rather than wait for official version releases.

I'm playing a new game as ragnar on GEM on immortal difficulty and i have 8 cities (no city restrictions from civics) but most only have 1, some have 2. I think AI needs to prioritize gettings tribes out quicker.

played a bit longer, 2000 BC nearly and i have 11 cities (with financial trouble :mischief: )
but the AI still mostly only have 1 city :shake: i think 3 or 4 of them have 2 cities and i think korea is the only one with 3! Im more than double most people's score.. it seems strange.

There are 2 in the Private Map area already?

see attached where to put them. But if you dont use all the terrain we have, alot of it will not make sense and you will probably not be able to get alot of cultures and Heroes then??

There are no standard sized Earth maps in the Private Map area. Just two huge ones and one giant one. :shake:

I did download a standard one to put in there (this one: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=291356) but it doesn't work.

On the other hand, my version of C2C is outdated (latest version downloading as we speak), so if you added a standard Earth map in the update I may have missed it.

played a bit longer, 2000 BC nearly and i have 11 cities (with financial trouble :mischief: )
but the AI still mostly only have 1 city :shake: i think 3 or 4 of them have 2 cities and i think korea is the only one with 3! Im more than double most people's score.. it seems strange.

That's why I started as deity on GEM (the newest one is the 42 civ precolumbian map of Acularius (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=317355&d=1332952409)), this way Ai has 2 starting cities and has better chances to reach tribalism fast to get more cities. Even with minor start some heavy Ai techleaders can emerge. Catching up to them technologically and bringing them down by espionage & diplomacy is quite a challenge in middle game.

most of them have tribalism but still not expanding just building 100 units which are gonna get owned when i get my catapults... kinda think need to restart maybe koshling's fix from today helps. I mean 800 turns in and only 1 city, thats ridiculous. So sick of all this restarting tho, feels like such a waste of time..

Im using that map too, europe is too crowded.. should remove portugal + celts + jews + babylon, think imma edit it at the start of my next game and delete some people. Maybe put a civ in new zealand and maybe another africa and brazil.

Also I forgot to mention, was playing snail speed and had stone and traded for marble, consequently the wonders are way too easy to build. One of them i built in 1 turn.. other 4 turns, 6 turns, longest was 11 turns.. much too fast.. can we increase the cost of wonders across the board plz..

most of them have tribalism but still not expanding just building 100 units which are gonna get owned when i get my catapults... kinda think need to restart maybe koshling's fix from today helps. I mean 800 turns in and only 1 city, thats ridiculous. So sick of all this restarting tho, feels like such a waste of time..


Wait til I make tomorrow's update. I haven't fixed the thing that I think is causing the start as minors military arms race yet (it's my birthday today, so I spent more time playing than actually fixing ;))

:clap:[party] happy b-day mate

my game isn't start as minor btw, but lots of people are in war. Still they need to build some tribes bunch of retards :lol: have a good one

Wait til I make tomorrow's update. I haven't fixed the thing that I think is causing the start as minors military arms race yet (it's my birthday today, so I spent more time playing than actually fixing ;))

Yeah, happy birthday Koshling. Your work is like a daily birthday present for C2C.

4/11: Koshling = Ares, the Sign of War. Rather fitting I think ;) Happy B-day Koshling!

Hey, I didn't know you had an entire forum for C2C! I found a pre-made standard Earth made for the mod. :woohoo:

Double post

I recommend you put this on the first post:

Caveman2Cosmos Forum
http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=449

Underneath the StrategyOne Productions Banner, so new people can be aware that their is a Forum and not just that one thread.

I recommend you put this on the first post:

Caveman2Cosmos Forum
http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=449

Underneath the StrategyOne Productions Banner, so new people can be aware that their is a Forum and not just that one thread.

There, i never even thought about redoing it, thx, that was before "we" had a forum:rolleyes:

Hi everyone!

Would it be possible to have, amongst the first posts of this thread (or in another full thread, now that you more-than-deservedly have your own forum), a small description of the main features of this mod (like the property system) and other main game rules? The mod is developing really fast and it's getting difficult to keep up with all the changes and new features you are implementing.

Thanks!

I think it would be shorter to make a list of what is not in C2C. :groucho:

Is there a way to eliminate the wonder limit? I am in the ancient area, and I am restricted to 4 wonders. I love building lots of wonders and do not want to continue playing if I am forced to be restricted to 4.

Is there a way to eliminate the wonder limit? I am in the ancient area, and I am restricted to 4 wonders. I love building lots of wonders and do not want to continue playing if I am forced to be restricted to 4.

when you setup your game, you do custom game, not play now. When you do this all the modmod's such as wonder limit are listed with on/off function. This way you choose how you want to play. Not only map/civs etc but everything else too.


On another note, something is seriously wrong with the AI on GEM map why won't they expand!! :confused: I restarted my last game coz i was 12 cities as ragnar spread in taking all of germany's land and russia while 90% stayed on 1 city and some had max 3.
I restarded, spread out the civs more, gifted all prehistoric techs at the start and played from there. I've played about 400 turns and they still won't expand.. The worst part is I manually went in and gifted all the civs with only 1 city 2 settlers as well as gifting them a bunch of tech since they were falling way behind. Still they just put the settlers inside the city and went back to building research like retards.. :cry:

When starting a new game you can set the Option Unlimited Wonders. That removes your limit on wonders in a city.

There's an XML file you can modify too, to make it happen in your current game. In Caveman2Cosmos/Assets/XML edit GlobalDefines.xml, look for MAX_WORLD, MAX_TEAM, MAX_NATIONAL wonder options and increase them to increase your limit.
Keep in mind that the numbers set are for the highest Cultural Level in a city, lower Cultural levels decrease this number so if you have max 4 now you need to double the numbers to get to 8, which will give you a max of 14 (16 for National) once you've reached Legendary Culture.

Cheers

when you setup your game, you do custom game, not play now. When you do this all the modmod's such as wonder limit are listed with on/off function. This way you choose how you want to play. Not only map/civs etc but everything else too.

I think this should be in the first post too strategyonly since it seems to be a common mistake.

On another note, something is seriously wrong with the AI on GEM map why won't they expand!! :confused:

...

The worst part is I manually went in and gifted all the civs with only 1 city 2 settlers as well as gifting them a bunch of tech since they were falling way behind. Still they just put the settlers inside the city and went back to building research like retards.. :cry:

I agree with this, there seems to be a problem with AI expansion. In my game I am an Island with 3 AIs, I have six cities, they have 2,2 and 1. One of them is far ahead in tech, about to get Sedentry Lifestyle but still just sits there building research instead of expanding.

http://i.imgur.com/Hzoa5.jpg

When will the world be old enough to judge how well I'm doing with mastery yet? :sad:

http://i.imgur.com/iZseC.jpg

:mischief:

when you setup your game, you do custom game, not play now. When you do this all the modmod's such as wonder limit are listed with on/off function. This way you choose how you want to play. Not only map/civs etc but everything else too.


On another note, something is seriously wrong with the AI on GEM map why won't they expand!! :confused: I restarted my last game coz i was 12 cities as ragnar spread in taking all of germany's land and russia while 90% stayed on 1 city and some had max 3.
I restarded, spread out the civs more, gifted all prehistoric techs at the start and played from there. I've played about 400 turns and they still won't expand.. The worst part is I manually went in and gifted all the civs with only 1 city 2 settlers as well as gifting them a bunch of tech since they were falling way behind. Still they just put the settlers inside the city and went back to building research like retards.. :cry:

If you post a save game with an AI settler sitting in a city not being used I can easily analyse what that settler thinks is doing (or why its not settling)...

http://i.imgur.com/Hzoa5.jpg

When will the world be old enough to judge how well I'm doing with mastery yet? :sad:

http://i.imgur.com/iZseC.jpg

:mischief:

I believe that you finally get to see the mastery scores once you get past 1/4 of the number of turns allowed on your current speed.

If you post a save game with an AI settler sitting in a city not being used I can easily analyse what that settler thinks is doing (or why its not settling)...

ok here is latest autosave after i gifted them some settlers and they have moved the settlers back home.

Also here is my last game as ragnar where i gave up coz AI never expanded enough, played quite a few turns from memory (500+) and most AI were still on 1 city (immortal difficulty)

When starting a new game you can set the Option Unlimited Wonders. That removes your limit on wonders in a city.

There's an XML file you can modify too, to make it happen in your current game. In Caveman2Cosmos/Assets/XML edit GlobalDefines.xml, look for MAX_WORLD, MAX_TEAM, MAX_NATIONAL wonder options and increase them to increase your limit.
Keep in mind that the numbers set are for the highest Cultural Level in a city, lower Cultural levels decrease this number so if you have max 4 now you need to double the numbers to get to 8, which will give you a max of 14 (16 for National) once you've reached Legendary Culture.

Cheers
Actually those numbers don't do anything any more. The wonder limit is set in the culture level XML and increases with each culture level that your city reaches.
You can change it in Assets/XML/GameInfo/CIV4CultureLevelInfo.xml

Actually those numbers don't do anything any more. The wonder limit is set in the culture level XML and increases with each culture level that your city reaches.
You can change it in Assets/XML/GameInfo/CIV4CultureLevelInfo.xml

Hah, keep changing the game and how it works on me, will ya... *laugh*
No, but seriously, good to know. Can the GlobalDefines entries be removed then? I suppose it won't do much but even a few less bytes the game needs to load will help towards not reaching 3Gb and MAF, right?

Cheers

Actually those numbers don't do anything any more. The wonder limit is set in the culture level XML and increases with each culture level that your city reaches.
You can change it in Assets/XML/GameInfo/CIV4CultureLevelInfo.xml

Which makes it almost impossible to test new wonders without the unlimited wonder option on.:mischief:

I will post this in a bug thread if someone confirms it as a bug, I may have done something wrong during playthrough.

There is a problem (I think) with using subdued animals to construct buildings like 'Myth of the Bird' or 'Myth of the Lion' or 'Animal mascot'. The building are built all right, but the animals used to construct them still trigger upkeep costs. The animals do not exist on the map, since they were in my city and they were used to construct a building. Viewing financial advisor, the second line on the right (away supply) showed that I have 40 units outside cultural borders and must therefore pay 32 upkeep each turn (It didn't happen at once, the upkeep costs were getting higher as I played but I cannot post a save to show it).

'butcher animal' option works fine, no problem with upkeep, I am not sure what causes additional upkeep, possibly option 'add to cultural heritage', I used that a lot (or something like that, when you convert the animal into 1 science and 1 culture) or maybe it is a problem with capturing workers and/or deleting your units (the option with a skull, giving you a small amount of gold if the unit is deleted within your territory).

I am not big into modding and I don't know how to correct that issue, is it possible I just need to reinstall? (reunpack?)

btw I totally love your mod and look forward to your next updates :) great job with overhauling civilizations and expanding the tech tree :)

please don't judge my english or my intellect too harshly :)

Sounds like it may be an interesting find...
Post bugs in bugs thread bugs-subforum (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=460) of the C2C-forum
(http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=449) (if you post bugs that turn out not to be bugs it doesn't matter^^).
Welcome to C2C! :)

I will post this in a bug thread if someone confirms it as a bug, I may have done something wrong during playthrough.

There is a problem (I think) with using subdued animals to construct buildings like 'Myth of the Bird' or 'Myth of the Lion' or 'Animal mascot'. The building are built all right, but the animals used to construct them still trigger upkeep costs. The animals do not exist on the map, since they were in my city and they were used to construct a building. Viewing financial advisor, the second line on the right (away supply) showed that I have 40 units outside cultural borders and must therefore pay 32 upkeep each turn (It didn't happen at once, the upkeep costs were getting higher as I played but I cannot post a save to show it).

'butcher animal' option works fine, no problem with upkeep, I am not sure what causes additional upkeep, possibly option 'add to cultural heritage', I used that a lot (or something like that, when you convert the animal into 1 science and 1 culture) or maybe it is a problem with capturing workers and/or deleting your units (the option with a skull, giving you a small amount of gold if the unit is deleted within your territory).

I am not big into modding and I don't know how to correct that issue, is it possible I just need to reinstall? (reunpack?)

btw I totally love your mod and look forward to your next updates :) great job with overhauling civilizations and expanding the tech tree :)

please don't judge my english or my intellect too harshly :)

I've had a quick look at this and cannot see anything wrong with the code, or reproduce a problem when using 'add to your cultural heritage' or when using subdued animals to build things. Please experiment some more and see if you can pin down when it happens. I recommend you set your autosave to every turn so that next time it does happen you'll have a save to reproduce it from and can post that together with instructions to generate the issue for analysis.

Hello. I was playing version 21 until now. I found that archery bombardment (enabled through the BUG screen) wasn't working properly (i coundn't bombard anything with archers). Also bombardment units, like Frigates and cannons like the Mortar (called motar in game btw, and austrlian instead of australian :P) didn't do any damage at all when bombarding. Was all this intended or they were bugs? If they are bugs, were they corrected for version 22.1? Thank you.

In any case, i'm downloading the 22.1 version. If the bombardment problems persist, I'll inform you.

Hello. I was playing version 21 until now. I found that archery bombardment (enabled through the BUG screen) wasn't working properly (i coundn't bombard anything with archers). Also bombardment units, like Frigates and cannons like the Mortar (called motar in game btw, and austrlian instead of australian :P) didn't do any damage at all when bombarding. Was all this intended or they were bugs? If they are bugs, were they corrected for version 22.1? Thank you.

In any case, i'm downloading the 22.1 version. If the bombardment problems persist, I'll inform you.

As far as I know archer bombard has never worked, at least in as long as I've worked on the mod. One of the older hands may wish to add a comment though on that aspect...

In regard of doing no damage - what are you bombarding? Bombardment (in all RoM derivatives I believe) never damages the head unit, it ONLY does collateral damage to the rest of the stack, so if you bombard a single unit it has no effect...

As far as I know archer bombard has never worked, at least in as long as I've worked on the mod. One of the older hands may wish to add a comment though on that aspect...

In regard of doing no damage - what are you bombarding? Bombardment (in all RoM derivatives I believe) never damages the head unit, it ONLY does collateral damage to the rest of the stack, so if you bombard a single unit it has no effect...

Ok, sorry, I didn't know about that rule. I was thinking in a Civ3 bombardment :P. Thank you.

I appear to have the infinite turn bug on 22.1, tried the latest patch and the game went a little further and hit the bug again....shame as v21 appear to be working fine for me

I appear to have the infinite turn bug on 22.1, tried the latest patch and the game went a little further and hit the bug again....shame as v21 appear to be working fine for me

Do you have a stack limit per tile set?

Yes, I've got mine set to 5...but it worked fine in 21

when you have the stack loop press bug icon while waiting for end of turn continues, set other (higher) stack number or 0 and it should go on. Turn back after that turn and see if it happens again. At least thats how I dealt with it in earlier versions.

:mischief:I think post #3 here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=459121) nicely sums up the current state of our beta (SVN):mischief:

Huh......so......maybe AI is trying to move a unit into a city that already has too many units in it?.....wonder why it didn't happen in 21....but I see how it could.....now to tear myself away from a little flash game (Utopian Mining) to see if it actually works!

A bit harsh DH I think, certainly C2C is a big and perhaps....unfocused mod, but then it also caters for those of us who like MORE in their games....which I do and you guys seem to make the best effort of making a playable and bug free mod!

:mischief:I think post #3 here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=459121) nicely sums up the current state of our beta (SVN):mischief:

What the "HECK" I just wrote the idiot that wrote that also.

EDIT: I also just wrote to the Admin's about that bad Etiquette.

What the "HECK" I just wrote the idiot that wrote that also.

EDIT: I also just wrote to the Admin's about that bad Etiquette.

It was all meant as a joke especially as he is building a mod that will make C2C look simplistic.

Turns out that indeed it was the limited units.....which is annoying as I liked that option to curtail stacks of doom...oh well, it didn't happen in 21 so maybe it wont happen in 23?

It was all meant as a joke especially as he is building a mod that will make C2C look simplistic.

Then if its based off of C2C it should have been in the C2C modmod area's, no offense to you, but thats just bad taste:(, especially for new people that are just finding CFC and looking at stuff like that.:sad: It completely disrespects, the Base personal, ie: Zappara, Afforess, and all the others that spent good time in making this Terrific mod, in my opinion.

Turns out that indeed it was the limited units.....which is annoying as I liked that option to curtail stacks of doom...oh well, it didn't happen in 21 so maybe it wont happen in 23?

It did happen in v21. The AI is crippled by stack limits generally - it can't mount attacks without stacks of doom because it's attack strategy is entirely based around them.

Odd....I never seemed to experience it in v21. So is it something that may be looked at in the future? Although I imagine that some hefty re-writing of the AI code would have to be done to change said strategy?

I had the 'stack issue' problem earlier today as well. XD

:mischief:I think post #3 here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=459121) nicely sums up the current state of our beta (SVN):mischief:

nvm..........

Odd....I never seemed to experience it in v21. So is it something that may be looked at in the future? Although I imagine that some hefty re-writing of the AI code would have to be done to change said strategy?

It happens occassionally in all versions back to when it was introduced (in AND?), its just uncommon is all, which is why you won't see it every game. It would rquire a complete rewrite of a number of aspects of th AI to handle it properly, so TBH I don't se it making it onto the agenda in the foreseabl future.

I don't know where to ask this, but I have a question:

How do you create a new event?

I don't know where to ask this, but I have a question:

How do you create a new event?

There is a good tutorial on creating events in the tutorial forum (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=177) see here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=230567).

Hi!

Ask Ori in this thread C2C-Events (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=440465&highlight=event).

If you could make more (modular?) events that would be fantastic!


Edit: Oh! DH was faster^^

I have just committed my new Epic Gamespeed setup. Currently no gameplay factors, except for inflationdelay, have been changed, the only thing is that now the Turn Length (in years or months) scaling will look more like the Snail and Eternity gamespeeds.

The new setup has 3032 turns and ends in the year 2100 AD, same as every other gamespeed. Feedback, both on the date progression and on what modifiers need adjustment, is most appreciated. Please post it on the C2C Balance Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=457375).

The new setup has 3032 turns and ends in the year 2100 AD, same as every other gamespeed.

That isn't realistic... I'm pretty sure we won't have "artificial stars" by 2100. :crazyeye:

That isn't realistic... I'm pretty sure we won't have "artificial stars" by 2100. :confused:

Who knows. The Singularity is due about 2045...

Who knows. The Singularity is due about 2045...

People really believe in that?

People really believe in that?

Well, I meant it semi-jokingly, but to some degree, yes (defining singularity as being the point you cannot predict or reason about downstream reality beyond because your current thought processes are not up to it, so the existance of (access to) any signficantly super-human intelligence, whether artificial, biological, or via augmentation, implies a singularity in that sense.

Well, I meant it semi-jokingly, but to some degree, yes (defining singularity as being the point you cannot predict or reason about downstream reality beyond because your current thought processes are not up to it, so the existance of (access to) any signficantly super-human intelligence, whether artificial, biological, or via augmentation, implies a singularity in that sense.

Moore's law states that the shrinkage of computers will end in 2015-2020. I've always thought of the Singularity as a nutjob theory that Kurzweil used to get popular. (He even proposed that "evolution" is a process of non-intelligent matter becoming intelligent, which is clearly false.)

Moore's law states that the shrinkage of computers will end in 2015-2020. I've always thought of the Singularity as a nutjob theory that Kurzweil used to get popular. (He even proposed that "evolution" is a process of non-intelligent matter becoming intelligent, which is clearly false.)

I don't believe we will see any singularity, but after 2020, there will probably be some other type of computing that will arise to meet the demand for faster computing. Who knows if it will be DNA, optical, or something else, but just because Silicon computing can't go any faster doesn't mean that new methods can't arise. (It does however lend some interesting techs to the Transhuman Era...)

Moore's law states that the shrinkage of computers will end in 2015-2020. I've always thought of the Singularity as a nutjob theory that Kurzweil used to get popular. (He even proposed that "evolution" is a process of non-intelligent matter becoming intelligent, which is clearly false.)

Moore's law states no such thing. Some have said that Moore's law will hit physical limits and cease to operate around 2020, but post-silicon (carbon based semiconductors etc) look good for a few years more, and things like quantum computing are looking promising. Clearly (by extant example) brain-equivalent compute densities are physically achieveable, and I see no reason to believe what is evolved in a human brain represents the absolute physical limit, so personally I expect to see computing power to continue to increase to, and past, human-brain-equivalence.

Moore's law states no such thing. Some have said that Moore's law will hit physical limits and cease to operate around 2020, but post-silicon (carbon based semiconductors etc) look good for a few years more, and things like quantum computing are looking promising. Clearly (by extant example) brain-equivalent compute densities are physically achieveable, and I see no reason to believe what is evolved in a human brain represents the absolute physical limit, so personally I expect to see computing power to continue to increase to, and past, human-brain-equivalence.

Yeah, buy 2020 individual transistors on chips will be so small that with the Uncertainty Principle the electron might jump over to an adjacent circuit, causing shorts and all that bad stuff. That is the physical limit of silicon computing.

We may very well get brain-density computing, but that doesn't mean that intelligence naturally follows. You probably will end up with just an incredibly fast computer that is no more intelligent than the one I'm using to type this post. That's another discussion however.

Yeah, buy 2020 individual transistors on chips will be so small that with the Uncertainty Principle the electron might jump over to an adjacent circuit, causing shorts and all that bad stuff. That is the physical limit of silicon computing.

We may very well get brain-density computing, but that doesn't mean that intelligence naturally follows. You probably will end up with just an incredibly fast computer that is no more intelligent than the one I'm using to type this post. That's another discussion however.

No indeed. But personally I believe the route to post-human intelligence is via augmentation (brain machine interfaces, direct internet connection for greatly improved information storage/retrieveal powers, ability to perform complex analysis outside the biologial cortex, etc.), and which point you don't need to create a new seat of intelligence (at least at first) to get the process rolling.

Any plans on making this MOD for Civ 5?

Any plans on making this MOD for Civ 5?

Dear god I hope you're joking. :shifty:

Any plans on making this MOD for Civ 5?

As has been stated on numerous occassions, this is not possible because Firaxis have never released the DLL source code for modding for Civ5.

As has been stated on numerous occassions, this is not possible because Firaxis have never released the DLL source code for modding for Civ5.

Why wouldn't they do that?

Why wouldn't they do that?

It's proprietary code. In general software manufacturers don't. It was VERY VERY unusual that the CiV IV DLL source was released.

It's proprietary code. In general software manufacturers don't. It was VERY VERY unusual that the CiV IV DLL source was released.

I just read that they announced that the source code would be released soon. Maybe they release for the Civilization series because it's so easily moddable?

I just read that they announced that the source code would be released soon. Maybe they release for the Civilization series because it's so easily moddable?

Well, if they release it then C2C for CiV 5 becomes possible, but I think the modders here would actually treat that as more 'Civ 5 graphics engine for C2C' ;)

By that I mean we wouldn't even attemopt to mod the (very different) Civ V ruleset to add the things we have in C2C - we'd just replace it entirely, so what you'd end up with would be C2C with CiV 5 nicer graphics and hexes, but the same CiV 4 based C2C ruleset.

However, it would probably be a large job (C2C would have to go on vacation for 3-6 months while we did it I expect)

Well, if they release it then C2C for CiV 5 becomes possible, but I think the modders here would actually treat that as more 'Civ 5 graphics engine for C2C' ;)

By that I mean we wouldn't even attemopt to mod the (very different) Civ V ruleset to add the things we have in C2C - we'd just replace it entirely, so what you'd end up with would be C2C with CiV 5 nicer graphics and hexes, but the same CiV 4 based C2C ruleset.

However, it would probably be a large job (C2C would have to go on vacation for 3-6 months while we did it I expect)

Actually it would take alot longer than that, because they changed the whole rules of how modding is done in Civ5, waaaay more difficult, and cant understand hardly anything about it.:rolleyes:

Well, if they release it then C2C for CiV 5 becomes possible, but I think the modders here would actually treat that as more 'Civ 5 graphics engine for C2C' ;)

By that I mean we wouldn't even attemopt to mod the (very different) Civ V ruleset to add the things we have in C2C - we'd just replace it entirely, so what you'd end up with would be C2C with CiV 5 nicer graphics and hexes, but the same CiV 4 based C2C ruleset.

However, it would probably be a large job (C2C would have to go on vacation for 3-6 months while we did it I expect)

That gives me an idea. What if we made Civ IV (and also C2C) with Civ III graphics? It would solve all turn speed problems in an instant.

That gives me an idea. What if we made Civ IV (and also C2C) with Civ III graphics? It would solve all turn speed problems in an instant.

Turn speed is not a graphics issue, at least except at the very start. It's almost entirely an AI issue

I don't even have a copy of Civ5, so I am staying with Civ4 and C2C. I hope that answers your question.

Hydro, just wanna say this mod is fantastic. I was a GamingSteve member back in the day. I shared your disappointment in Spore and it's awesome that you decided to address that letdown by making this killer mod.

I don't even have a copy of Civ5, so I am staying with Civ4 and C2C. I hope that answers your question.

This.:agree: I would only consider moving to CiV if three things happened.

1. We implement completely Multiple Maps/Galactic Era, Nomad Camps/Prehistoric Era Overhaul, Progenitor Civs, and Dynamic Traits.

2. We get C2C to the point where there are no fixable CTDs/bugs left. (this one could take a while)

3. I get a new rig and buy CiV (this one's important:p)

This.:agree: I would only consider moving to CiV if three things happened.

1. We implement completely Multiple Maps/Galactic Era, Nomad Camps/Prehistoric Era Overhaul, Progenitor Civs, and Dynamic Traits.

2. We get C2C to the point where there are no fixable CTDs/bugs left. (this one could take a while)

3. I get a new rig and buy CiV (this one's important:p)

Personally I'd move if they made the DLL source available and there was a quorum preopared to make the move. The benefist of a 64-bit, multi-threaded platform are not to be under-estimated.

Around 524 Techs in C2C as of 26 Apr 12 :eek::eek:


http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7175013&postcount=4

Dang it. Read through the whole thread. Just reinstalled CIV4 and downloading the mod now. Bye bye weekend.

Source: Pariahpaladin @ RPG.net (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?609108-Lets-Play-Cavemen-to-Cosmos!&p=15340497#post15340497)

Looks like people are even wanting to play C2C even if they don't have Civ4 still installed.

Holy crap! I have spent 3 hours in this forum reading, and the amount of information is truely dizzying! I am just a plain old end-user who has no technical modding skills. (I had to look up the tech definition of torrent and still don't fully understand it) I have played C4 for years but never used any mods. I have been playing Civ5 lately- and it's cool, but I find myself thirsting for deeper fare. I am very excited about this mod but am clueless as to how to obtain and use it. It almost seems too complicated. Can anyone offer any remediation?

Thanks
Chev

Holy crap! I have spent 3 hours in this forum reading, and the amount of information is truely dizzying! I am just a plain old end-user who has no technical modding skills. (I had to look up the tech definition of torrent and still don't fully understand it) I have played C4 for years but never used any mods. I have been playing Civ5 lately- and it's cool, but I find myself thirsting for deeper fare. I am very excited about this mod but am clueless as to how to obtain and use it. It almost seems too complicated. Can anyone offer any remediation?

Thanks
Chev
http://www.atomicgamer.com/files/96591/c2c-version-22-1

Last release as far as I know, Caveman2Cosmos v22.1, the link above is a site in which you can download it from. It is an ~.95 GB file, so depending on your internet you are going to downloading for the long haul.

The SVN is a whole different beast, and the milage may vary, but I recommend just following along with the release versions.

If you have any more questions, just ask, someone will answer it. (Sooner or later. :P )

Thank you very much for the info, Acularius! Is the link you provided the only way? It is forcing me to load garbage apps and useless toolbars which I HATE. If it is the only option, I will consider it - I am very impressed with what this mod has to offer. You fellas who are behind the wheel seem to have one hell of a knack for this kind of stuff. Ever think about teaming up and providing your skills (and a dedicated host) as a service? I would gladly pay for polished, continuing, hassle-free content for my favorite game of all time! Maybe there are legal ramifications?

Hmmm....SVN.....Googling...........?

I have to wonder if you clicked on the right download. There are no random pieces of software involved, just a 7-zip archive.

There are ads on the page that have "free download" buttons and such. Do not click them.
Click one of the "download from public server X" links (not a button, just a regular link). That pops up another window with a countdown until the download (if the countdown does not automatically update after a minute, reload the page and keep doing so every minute until you get to the actual download). Ignore all the ads in the new window too. Eventually it will show a "Download Now!" link (again: not a button, just a link) to click to get a 7-zip archive that holds the mod, and nothing but the mod (well, probably some extraneous junk that is not actually used but there's so much stuff that keeping everything organized is problematic - but no toolbar or other random programs).

Much obliged, GE! You are right. There are huge green buttons that call "download now" - tricksters! The file is only a gig it shouldn't take too long. I can't wait to get my hands on this content. Totally awesome! Thanks again! I can't wait to see what you wizards can do with Civ 5! That one could use some fleshing out!

Much obliged, GE! You are right. There are huge green buttons that call "download now" - tricksters! The file is only a gig it shouldn't take too long. I can't wait to get my hands on this content. Totally awesome! Thanks again! I can't wait to see what you wizards can do with Civ 5! That one could use some fleshing out!

We will never make it to Civ 5, no dll permission granted from Firaxis:sad: Besides "our" C2C modders, IMO are way better than the Firaxis so called "professional's" that make Civ 5.

Thanks for the help all! Firaxis should team guys like you- this mod is FANTASTIC! The direction you took this is how 5 SHOULD have been done! Looks like my copy of 5 is going to be collecting dust! A million thanks to your crew! SPOT on sh** fellas! Cheers! =D

**Shared on FB!

Thanks for the help all! Firaxis should team guys like you- this mod is FANTASTIC! The direction you took this is how 5 SHOULD have been done! Looks like my copy of 5 is going to be collecting dust! A million thanks to your crew! SPOT on sh** fellas! Cheers! =D

**Shared on FB!

I have CiV, I don't play it all too much. Feels empty.
The 'DLC' hasn't convinced me to further support it either.

maybe when expansion + DLL there will be some gameplay with depth in civ5.

I just wanted to share this screen shot, with y'all.
It made me go :eek:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10493036/HOLY%20CITY0000.JPG

(FYI I'm playing v.21 - not SVN)

maybe when expansion + DLL there will be some gameplay with depth in civ5.

Blasphemy i say.:twitch:

Blasphemy i say.:twitch:

The expansion probably won't help all that much, but if they release the DLL for people like Afforess and Koshling to edit, the sky's the limit.;)

The expansion probably won't help all that much, but if they release the DLL for people like Afforess and Koshling to edit, the sky's the limit.;)

Afforess, is he even around anymore, haven't heard from him in 2 months??

Afforess, is he even around anymore, haven't heard from him in 2 months??

I've read recent posts of his in the CiV area, have no idea what he is actually doing. :crazyeye:

Afforess, is he even around anymore, haven't heard from him in 2 months??

I thought he went off to Minecraft modding.

Afforess, is he even around anymore, haven't heard from him in 2 months??

He's finishing up the semester and "may" work on AND some after finals. I think he realized that using the C2C changes to the "base" of AND involved more work than he intended to put into it.

Go to his account page and EM him from there. He generally responds in a day or 2.

JosEPh

@Koshling/AIAndy:

Now that we have the Prehistoric Era extended back a good bit, I was thinking that as part of a greater overhaul I'm planning for Gamespeeds after V23 is released that we should move the start date of the mod to 50,000 BC.

My question is, I'm pretty sure that that move involves SDK work, and I want to know, is it as simple as just changing a value somewhere in the DLL? I know that you are both busy, and figure that if it is that simple I might try my hand at doing it myself.

@Koshling/AIAndy:

Now that we have the Prehistoric Era extended back a good bit, I was thinking that as part of a greater overhaul I'm planning for Gamespeeds after V23 is released that we should move the start date of the mod to 50,000 BC.

My question is, I'm pretty sure that that move involves SDK work, and I want to know, is it as simple as just changing a value somewhere in the DLL? I know that you are both busy, and figure that if it is that simple I might try my hand at doing it myself.
That is not in the DLL. It is a global define named START_YEAR.
Very few things actually depend on the year, most depend on the turn. You will need to update the spawn info XML for the Neanderthals.

That is not in the DLL. It is a global define named START_YEAR.
Very few things actually depend on the year, most depend on the turn. You will need to update the spawn info XML for the Neanderthals.

Oh, that's nice to know. Thanks.

Why 50000 BC? the earliest tech were not 50000 why not set start to 100000, 500000 or 1 Mio? The first thousands of years could past relatively quick so it would be nice to capture fire around 750000 BC (and lose it again in 600000 BC lol, by 500000 BC you have primitive stone stools and stuff and so on. Especially with the nomad camp start the starting date will have to be adjusted again, IMHO, so why do the work twice?

Btw I have a question: can it be made that for example (startime 1 Mio BC) during turn 0-10 one turn is 50 years while in turn 11-20 its 1000 years per turn? And then, for example, from turn 21-30 its 50 years between [active :think: ] turns again?


Active turns? The idea behind this is to have a new time-layer in the mechanic of the game.
Koshlings idea of a very large map with theaters could actually also work in regard of turns/time/played turns.
So lets say in the first 500 generations only 5 relatively smart ones are born During those times you would have more time to play turns and thus this would be the theater in that timeframe
So in the timeframe from 1Mio BC to 900.000 you could have a featured theater with slower time/year rates (scientifical advancement is in these periods 25 % higher or something)

then after you finished that (like a pseudo golden age) the time runs faster again and the next theater will be during 899.00-700.000 (or some other timeframe archeologists would propose^^).

This could make several things possible:

1. it would fit great with nomad start (also during those turns where years move fast the nomad will be able to migrate (just in terms of years more slowly than in certain theater turn/year times)

2. it would gurantee a certain flexible, yet half-scripted time-structure for scientific progress, so you could make theaters for every era. (Perhaps good for scripting scenarios as well)
Sideeffect: prehistoric era gets "unbored" and has more 'personal' action for the player to indentify with (-->goal to deepen this gameplay capital will be the Chief/King/religious leaders/political leaders/minions personal traits & mercenary system once it's within reach)

3. Finally, together with weather and nomad start it would nicely fit in Koshlings longtime goal, the million-turns-game idea?!! Perhaps not every turn would have to be processed fully but only like 25 k turns or an other number or --what about dynamic turns in a sense that certain processes will be across and during turns? if turns had certain 'blanks' (a turn that has nothing to process as a layer for something?) so dynamic handling of turns in regards of calls to the dll would that be possible? Maybe only the changing landscape is shown but not every time everything else is always fully calculated? Like your nomad camp would have the next active turn in 1000 years. Between this there are 1000 turns that are half invisble, all you would see would be the landscape shifting a bit and rain coming etc (unlaggy and sped up 24 dummy turns/sec like in a film^^), nothing else would be processed in these 'dummy turns' and it would be not costing much memory, would it, if the dummy turns called a specialized different dll with out-commented processes or something?? :think:


Once in a while a slightly brighter generation' appears and you had only 50 dummy turns between an active turn, this brighter generation would represent better adeption on what ihappened in the maybe 1000 dummy turns(years) before.

Then, after the bright generation the people may have setbacks and are unable to invent something for thousands of years lol. (In 75000BC south africa there were actually heights of culture that faded away again after some thousand years and the used tools became more primitive again - maybe the weather changed and food sources and friendly environment faded and so did the culture...)

I really think this aproach to scaling is the long searched compromise between sripting and flexibility in terms of the timeline... all credits to Koshling who gave the inspiration for this idea if anything is possible to be made out of it^^

------------------------

Btw the sea critters start to spawn at 5000 BC atm I think maybe their spawntime has to be adjusted, too?

Strategyonly, do we have an approximate ETA for next version of C2C?

Probably next weekend, but that's still tentative??

Probably next weekend, but that's still tentative??

I have 2 more things to do (both relatively simple), that I'm hoping to complete today. Once those are in I'm ready for the freeze myself.

I have 2 more things to do (both relatively simple), that I'm hoping to complete today. Once those are in I'm ready for the freeze myself.

:clap:

I have 2 more things to do (both relatively simple), that I'm hoping to complete today. Once those are in I'm ready for the freeze myself.

I'm all done with stuff for V23, all I need to do now is move all my art into the core.

I'm all done with stuff for V23, all I need to do now is move all my art into the core.

Pls do so as soon as you can, thx, that way i can do an FPK, thx.;)

Pls do so as soon as you can, thx, that way i can do an FPK, thx.;)

OK, done now. I'm good for V23.

I'm still learning how things work in this mod but I love it. By the way I finally won a game the other night by a UN vote after I killed off all of my enemies. Was less than 1% away from a domination victory in that game too. I still havent saw much of very late game though.

I'd like to include a new option and a tweak on the dll. This is something that breaks savegames so I've been waiting to go about it until now. I just wanted to check with the team to make sure this 'freeze' time is the best time to implement. Also, since I'll be messing with that end, are there any other game options you guys want me to put in place?

Yes, I wrote about this earlier: I'd like to have a bug menu option to check razing cities on/off. Because in GEM I liked to start with no razing cities in prehistoric so the capitals don't get destroyed but in ancient and the later eras I actually want less cities so in that period I would enable city razing by unchecking the 'no city razing' option in BUG.

Btw @ all really no comment to my previous post? Come on, not one single word? That's even more devastating than all of you saying: 'bad idea' or 'can't be done'.
Don't you guys know that hurts? :cry: Silence is the sharpest sword, right? :old:

Btw @ all really no comment to my previous post? Come on, not one single word? That's even more devastating than all of you saying: 'bad idea' or 'can't be done'.
Don't you guys know that hurts? :cry: Silence is the sharpest sword, right? :old:

:blush:I could not make had nor tail of it I am afraid, but I am still running a temperature and new ideas take awhile to sink in for me. Sometimes my dyslexia manifests is nothing in a written piece of work making sense and I have to leaves it for a few days and go back to the article later when it is completely different.

In general I don't see years but turns. Otherwise I start complaining that even in the ancient era you could cross from Spain to China in one or two years but that you can't in the game.

:blush:I could not make had nor tail of it I am afraid, but I am still running a temperature and new ideas take awhile to sink in for me. Sometimes my dyslexia manifests is nothing in a written piece of work making sense and I have to leaves it for a few days and go back to the article later when it is completely different.

Yes, I get that. It happens to me, too. Just wanted my piece of work to get some recognition and although it may be totally unpossible, I liked to know the why and maybe change my angle for new ideas.


In general I don't see years but turns. Otherwise I start complaining that even in the ancient era you could cross from Spain to China in one or two years but that you can't in the game.

Thats why I proposed the time-theaters. Think of a nomad tribe not very bright, living in a certain area for several thousand years, not traveling far. Then, one day, a charismatic leader emerges has quite a lot of children who he carry his "smart genes" for some time within the tribe during this pseudo golden age, the turns would be slower in terms of years. So you could in fact travel to other locations within a shorter period of time (maybe the leader understood that he should follow some herds or something.
The clou would be to have active turns and not active turns (and in a certain timeframe per period like early prehistoric, middle prehistoric, late prehistoric more active turns).

From 1 Mio BC to 900.000 BC, there would be most ly 1 active turn each 1000 years and movie-like dummy turns between that [1000 dummy turns(rain, shifting terrain)/ 24 turns/sec(to make this look like a movie)=~40 sec per each early turn, 20 sec if the rate would be 48 dummy turns/sec.

I don't know if such a speed is possible but what if dummy turns get other dll to load than the normal turns? So if only the weather system would be processed and all other aspects of the game would be commented out for the dummy turns that would be like multiple maps: multiple turn-types--- have there ever been any ideas towards this?

@DRJ It does sound like you are thinking across many ideas at once and from reading your many posts I get a glimmer of your over all idea. I was a computer programer, softwear engineer for 30 years. Strange as it may seem most of the time we had problems giving our client base what they needed was when they would insist on only explaining what it was they thought we could accomplish not what they dreamed of having to support their work.

One day I did get a client to say almost exactly what they wanted and we were almost able to provide it surprising everyone. Every day new data was published electronically, their job was to collect a months data from all these various places and write articles converting the data into information for use by others in both government and business for planning. I got their main requirement for the support system to be "Each day we press a big red button which causes any new data available since the last time we pressed the button to be converted into our publishing format and notify us when it is ready so we can do our bit of work." The only thing we could not do was give them the red button, they had to settle for grey. ;) Oh and we had to get the monks on line - they were submitting their data in written form. Really nice handwriting, almost a lost art form.

So keep asking for what you want but don't try and limit what you are asking for by what you think programmers or computers can do. Programmers are artists too.

Absolutely, thx for sharing your story.
Imho, this kind of oral/written tradtion is so much more valueable (in terms of promoting a creative and ethical mindset) than most of what we read in mainstream media. No wonder, it is not corrupted by interests of profits but by life itself and that corruption is authentic, is human; instead of dead capital memes, pondering to duplicate and alienating humanity from itself in this process, you provide something that can be called love in a sense. :pat: So thx for that and everything you do around here, so great you stayed!

I believe, to offer feedback on your concept, that what you propose is simply a longer gametime setting. Extend the length of time to research and build so that troops have more time to move about. Accomplishes basically the same thing I'm hearing you saying there. Only problem is, it increases the need for a game mechanic to somehow limit the extent range that your troops can go (supply lines) which I'm a little reluctant to see come into play personally.

I'd like to include a new option and a tweak on the dll. This is something that breaks savegames so I've been waiting to go about it until now. I just wanted to check with the team to make sure this 'freeze' time is the best time to implement. Also, since I'll be messing with that end, are there any other game options you guys want me to put in place?
What is that option and tweak that you want to add that you think breaks savegames?

I'd like to include a new option and a tweak on the dll. This is something that breaks savegames so I've been waiting to go about it until now. I just wanted to check with the team to make sure this 'freeze' time is the best time to implement. Also, since I'll be messing with that end, are there any other game options you guys want me to put in place?

If it's an option make it eitehr a game option (doesn't break saves with the new saveformat code providied you set defaults appropriately), or a BUG option (which has no impact on saves)

What is that option and tweak that you want to add that you think breaks savegames?

Just a simple game option really. Some of us greatly wish to see no step back in XP on units that have been upgraded while others seem to think its a great thing. Since we can't have a unified concensus on this matter, its best to make it an option. Personally, I can't stand losing xp just because I'm promoting a unit but I can understand those who see a purpose to it. So I was going to implement a very simple option on the matter.

I did not realize the degree of mastery that Koshling's adaptations for ongoing compatibility had achieved to allow game options to be implemented without breaking save games so I've been waiting and waiting for a time to do this.

I also have to say that I'm not yet competent in making BUG options. I know that there's a tutorial on that here but I didn't think this should be something adjustable during a game (as that could be manipulated to give an unfair advantage over the AI) so thought it better as a game option.

Koshling, when you say as long as I set the defaults appropriately, what should I be keeping in mind there? I presume the default on the option should be 'off'? Is that all or is there more to consider?

Just a simple game option really. Some of us greatly wish to see no step back in XP on units that have been upgraded while others seem to think its a great thing. Since we can't have a unified concensus on this matter, its best to make it an option. Personally, I can't stand losing xp just because I'm promoting a unit but I can understand those who see a purpose to it. So I was going to implement a very simple option on the matter.

I did not realize the degree of mastery that Koshling's adaptations for ongoing compatibility had achieved to allow game options to be implemented without breaking save games so I've been waiting and waiting for a time to do this.

I also have to say that I'm not yet competent in making BUG options. I know that there's a tutorial on that here but I didn't think this should be something adjustable during a game (as that could be manipulated to give an unfair advantage over the AI) so thought it better as a game option.

I believe that what you want to add is already a GlobalDefine.

It is, but that means to change it I have to go back into the global defines over and over after every SVN update. And its not very friendly to make every player who wants to play like that require modding skills. It would be a simple thing to have an option on the matter that if on, the code ignores the statement in the dll that causes it to back up the xp on the unit when its upgraded.

It is, but that means to change it I have to go back into the global defines over and over after every SVN update. And its not very friendly to make every player who wants to play like that require modding skills. It would be a simple thing to have an option on the matter that if on, the code ignores the statement in the dll that causes it to back up the xp on the unit when its upgraded.

Just add the gameoption to the END, make sure that 'false' is the value you want as the default (if it's not, reverse yoru semantics) and it should all 'just work' and be save-game compatible. The save game already accepts missing values ion saves (it just assumes that they are the ones at the end of its list and that they all sghould be set false)

Excellent! Great work on expanding our modding power without breaking saves!

This may be a dumb question, but where are the tribal villages in worldbuilder? All I can find are the unexplored islands

This may be a dumb question, but where are the tribal villages in worldbuilder? All I can find are the unexplored islands

They have been removed. Or at least you can't get at them from worldbuilder. No idea why they were removed.

You can ge them back by editing the improvements xml file in Assets/XML/Terrain and for goody huts change the line
<bGraphicalOnly>1</bGraphicalOnly>
to
<bGraphicalOnly>0</bGraphicalOnly>

You will lose this the next time you update.

Thunderbrd yea this option would be realy great so its one thing less I have to edit each update :).
Now if also a Option get in that allow the UU Units from Culture to Unlimit instead of 15 then I probably won't need to change anything any more ;).

DH was saying something about wanting an option for limiting missionaries as well... I can see how it could be combined into one option: Unlimited National Units, something I, too would love to implement. It'd be an easy thing I think but would not impact global units. I'd just have to find where national unit limits are established, tracked, and actually limited in the dll then create an if/then switch based on that new option. I like it. That'd fix my irritation with limits on everything from rogue types to executives.

Anyone have any complaints with this idea? (aside from the obvious that national units are given limits to aid in game balance)

DH was saying something about wanting an option for limiting missionaries as well... I can see how it could be combined into one option: Unlimited National Units, something I, too would love to implement. It'd be an easy thing I think but would not impact global units. I'd just have to find where national unit limits are established, tracked, and actually limited in the dll then create an if/then switch based on that new option. I like it. That'd fix my irritation with limits on everything from rogue types to executives.

Anyone have any complaints with this idea? (aside from the obvious that national units are given limits to aid in game balance)

It is easy to limit unlimited units but not so easy to unlimit limited units. What you have to do is make the units unlimited and then add an option to limit them. that is just the way WoC works.

So it keeps XML work ?

I'm thinking that from the dll, it should be doable as an option. I won't know for sure until I find the coding for it.

It is doable from the XML, you don't need to do it from the dll. If you do you will break the XML, just like they did when they changed the maximum wonders per city. It is still there in the XML but it can't be changed by the player to what they want.

I bought a brand new top of the line computer so that I can play this mod. I have played older versions, and I think they are the best mods ever produced for this game. I am looking forward to this mod, I hope it is easy to install :(

I found a unopened Coors Light beer in my garage. It has been baked in the Florida heat for two years. I am drinking it to celebrate this mod, and it is actually not too bad.

I bought a brand new top of the line computer so that I can play this mod. I have played older versions, and I think they are the best mods ever produced for this game. I am looking forward to this mod, I hope it is easy to install :(

I found a unopened Coors Light beer in my garage. It has been baked in the Florida heat for two years. I am drinking it to celebrate this mod, and it is actually not too bad.

V23 will be released in approximately one week - you may want to just experiment a little, and hold off starting a 'real' game until then.

Do you mean Version 23 for this mod? If they are going to have an updated one in a week, I will just wait.

Do you mean Version 23 for this mod? If they are going to have an updated one in a week, I will just wait.

Yes, exactly

V23 will be released in approximately one week - you may want to just experiment a little, and hold off starting a 'real' game until then.

will the old 22_1 saves work with the v23?

will the old 22_1 saves work with the v23?

yes, you'll just need to say yes to the modifier recalc

It is doable from the XML, you don't need to do it from the dll. If you do you will break the XML, just like they did when they changed the maximum wonders per city. It is still there in the XML but it can't be changed by the player to what they want.

I'm still convinced that wherever the xml is coming in establishing a limit on a unit in the dll, it can be told not to if an Unlimited National Units option is selected. However, I've looked at some of the coding and my God, Koshling... maybe I'm looking for the wrong key words but this issue seems to be one of the more complicated issues in the dll and I don't want to touch it with a ten foot pole unless you can offer some guidance. You seem to have done a lot with this subject matter. This touches a great deal on a lot of your caches and compatibility improvements, very little of which I understand, so I don't want to create any problems here. I couldn't quite figure out where the root of establishing the unit limits was located anyhow.

DH, the problem with doing it via the xml is it then requires changing the xml to adjust your options. Players shouldn't have to have a clue what xml is to be able to select some basic preferences like this. Despite being a bit lost where to conduct a small code surgery, I still think it'd have to be a minor issue to make this possible. It does go nicely in line as on option as we already have the unlimited wonder option.

I'm still convinced that wherever the xml is coming in establishing a limit on a unit in the dll, it can be told not to if an Unlimited National Units option is selected. However, I've looked at some of the coding and my God, Koshling... maybe I'm looking for the wrong key words but this issue seems to be one of the more complicated issues in the dll and I don't want to touch it with a ten foot pole unless you can offer some guidance. You seem to have done a lot with this subject matter. This touches a great deal on a lot of your caches and compatibility improvements, very little of which I understand, so I don't want to create any problems here. I couldn't quite figure out where the root of establishing the unit limits was located anyhow.

DH, the problem with doing it via the xml is it then requires changing the xml to adjust your options. Players shouldn't have to have a clue what xml is to be able to select some basic preferences like this. Despite being a bit lost where to conduct a small code surgery, I still think it'd have to be a minor issue to make this possible. It does go nicely in line as on option as we already have the unlimited wonder option.

And yet, for example, the way Guilds are turned on or off is all done in XML via an option on the Custom Game screen.:D

If you do your change right/correctly in the dll, then I will have no problems. However there have been two changes recently made via the dll which have removed options I used to like.

1) I used to be able to set the number of wonders, national wonders and team wonders to a limit I liked per city. Now I have no option but to play with unlimited wonders as it is the lesser evil of the options I now have.

2) I could set the maximum XP from barbarians, animals and to keep after upgrade. I have not found any way to set this to what I want any more. My changes in the Global Defines XML are being ignored.

1) I'm not sure what the problem is there but if it's discussed and researched enough, I'm sure it could be resolved in the dll.

2) That's odd considering that every time I change the exp to keep after upgrade in the xml, it seems to work just fine. The max xp limit on barbs and animals are something I had originally intended to unlimit with an option but with the new promos available on the matter, I'm quite happy with it right now. Nevertheless, strange that it doesn't seem to work from the global defines. Sounds worthy of some research and repair.

On both issues, what were you wanting to do that you can't seem to be able to exactly? I'm sure all the dll programmers will be listening to your complaint and the others are probably better capable of addressing your issues there but it'd help to know exactly what they are.

Options like Guilds off or on is definately best established between dll and xml because its saying in the dll to ignore buildings keyed to be ignored if the guild option is off by their definitions in the xml. It would be a different affair to simply tell the dll to not set national limits that have been established in the xml if the unlimited national units option is on. It'd just shut off that xml consideration on any and all national units so shouldn't impact any xml programming.

Bit off topic but u were talkign about tribal villages b4 and in SMAC there was an option to only have pods (tribal villages) around your starting location, this way it is fairer for everyone. Meaning one team doesn't get 15 when another only gets 1. Everyone gets like 5. Just a thought, you guys might want to implement something like this as an option, not sure how feasible or easy it would be to do. I think it would be primarily for MP use, obviously could use it for vs AI too since they use hax to hunt them all down :lol:

Bit off topic but u were talkign about tribal villages b4 and in SMAC there was an option to only have pods (tribal villages) around your starting location, this way it is fairer for everyone. Meaning one team doesn't get 15 when another only gets 1. Everyone gets like 5. Just a thought, you guys might want to implement something like this as an option, not sure how feasible or easy it would be to do. I think it would be primarily for MP use, obviously could use it for vs AI too since they use hax to hunt them all down :lol:

Tribal villages are going to be used for Indeginous Peoples soonish. ;) There are some ideas about the islands floating around also. Of course I will need to come up with a solution for games where the goody island option is off.

doubt anyone really plays with them off and if they do too bad i say lol save yourself some time ;)
< lazy aussie speaking :lol:

Just wanted to let you know: To finaly do soemthing at least somewhat usefull here I started to translate all the stuff to German, so that htose who don´t want to play in English get an alternative ( sorry, my French and Italian are way too bad to do something about those).
So far I did the pedia text of exactly ONE wonder.. but it will get more.

Hey, SO. So, I'm trying to install the mod. Just downloaded it, and told 7zip to extract it to C, program files, firaxis games, civ IV, beyond the sword, mods, but it doesn't seem to be working. The extraction never finishes, and there are several messages about "cannot open output file". I'm using Windows 7. I'd appreciate any help you or anyone else could give.

Hey, SO. So, I'm trying to install the mod. Just downloaded it, and told 7zip to extract it to C, program files, firaxis games, civ IV, beyond the sword, mods, but it doesn't seem to be working. The extraction never finishes, and there are several messages about "cannot open output file". I'm using Windows 7. I'd appreciate any help you or anyone else could give.

Best option is to extract it somewhere not in the "Program Files" folder and then copy it from there.

Ah, it looks like I was copying the folder that had ANOTHER folder in it that had the files. I was supposed to copy THAT folder. Done and done. Though...where is Brentalfloss' always entertaining "Civ with lyrics" theme? When did they change it to "Secret agent man", or whatever the name of the song is? Very strange...

It is in C2C-->Assets-->Sounds-->soundtrack-->title

by the way, when is the release of v23 planned?

Ah, it looks like I was copying the folder that had ANOTHER folder in it that had the files. I was supposed to copy THAT folder. Done and done. Though...where is Brentalfloss' always entertaining "Civ with lyrics" theme? When did they change it to "Secret agent man", or whatever the name of the song is? Very strange...

Its on a loop of 3 songs and a MIDI, that way, a person doesn't get sick of the same song all the time.

by the way, when is the release of v23 planned?

Very very soonish, at least by Saturday for sure, i hope!!:) I am trying for Friday, though.

Its on a loop of 3 songs and a MIDI, that way, a person doesn't get sick of the same song all the time.



Very very soonish, at least by Saturday for sure, i hope!!:) I am trying for Friday, though.

I'll clean up the GEM scenario for that then. (So the infamous floating deer of the North Sea is removed. :P)
Either today or tomorrow depending on how today goes.

I'm just waiting patiently for the next version.

so it's time to get back to Civ4 =), I downloaded v22 but never unzipped it.. totally weird

so it's time to get back to Civ4 =), I downloaded v22 but never unzipped it.. totally weird

If you have V22, you'll need to get V22.1 for it to work properly. Even better, just wait a couple days and V23 will be out.

i should check this out sometime

after updating to last SVN (2531) -
on load my save game -
"save format is not compatible due to missing class UNIT_BABUR"

after updating to last SVN (2531) -
on load my save game -
"save format is not compatible due to missing class UNIT_BABUR"

It' supposed to just delete units that no longer exist, so that sounds like a bug. Post the save game please.

it' supposed to just delete units that no longer exist, so that sounds like a bug. Post the save game please.

321027

321027

Ok, this is down to an XML change SO made in rev 2529, where he deleted some apparently duplicated heroes. In your game one of these heroes (Babur) is the best land unit in existance (at the time) in the game (which is used to scale various things).

The load didn't cope with this state.

I have just pushed a DLL fix to SVN that will recalculate the best land unit for saves in that state on load. I have tested it with your save, which loads fine now (though some player has lost a hero!)

Ok, this is down to an XML change SO made in rev 2529, where he deleted some apparently duplicated heroes. In your game one of these heroes (Babur) is the best land unit in existance (at the time) in the game (which is used to scale various things).

The load didn't cope with this state.

I have just pushed a DLL fix to SVN that will recalculate the best land unit for saves in that state on load. I have tested it with your save, which loads fine now (though some player has lost a hero!)

many thanks

For some reason Atomic Gamer will not give me access to UPLOAD a 900MB file, and there is NO other site that has that kind of limit, so until they do, or someone can find a site that has NO CAP limit under 1 GB, v 23 wont be coming anytime soon. sorry

If you have a site, let us know thx.

For some reason Atomic Gamer will not give me access to UPLOAD a 900MB file, and there is NO other site that has that kind of limit, so until they do, or someone can find a site that has NO CAP limit under 1 GB, v 23 wont be coming anytime soon. sorry

If you have a site, let us know thx.


Only thing I could think of is using torrents.

Or you could use file-front but you will have break the file into 2 parts.

For some reason Atomic Gamer will not give me access to UPLOAD a 900MB file, and there is NO other site that has that kind of limit, so until they do, or someone can find a site that has NO CAP limit under 1 GB, v 23 wont be coming anytime soon. sorry

If you have a site, let us know thx.

never mind - beat to the punch

Only thing I could think of is using torrents.

Or you could use file-front but you will have break the file into 2 parts.

I dont know about that, some people might get confused:confused::crazyeye: Even UTorrent says its to big.

For some reason Atomic Gamer will not give me access to UPLOAD a 900MB file, and there is NO other site that has that kind of limit, so until they do, or someone can find a site that has NO CAP limit under 1 GB, v 23 wont be coming anytime soon. sorry

If you have a site, let us know thx.

https://sourceforge.net/ ?

https://sourceforge.net/ ?

Yeah, I suggested that on the other thread, Sourceforge is already the host we use for the SVN version, I don't see why we couldn't make it the host for our releases as well.

split the file, then label one file with "filename"_part_1_of_2 and the other one with "filename"_part_2_of_2

Should be self explanitory that you need both parts...

https://sourceforge.net/ ?

Yeah, I suggested that on the other thread, Sourceforge is already the host we use for the SVN version, I don't see why we couldn't make it the host for our releases as well.

split the file, then label one file with "filename"_part_1_of_2 and the other one with "filename"_part_2_of_2

Should be self explanatory that you need both parts...

It looks like this is the only way i can get it done, i have started doing this already, oh well 2 is better i guess.

EDIT:

Just for Info:

I am going to have to have 2 files for version 23's download, since Atomic Gamer wont upload:mad:

So i will have them marked Part 1 and Part 2 though GameFront. Sorry everyone, but everything else besides Atomic Gamer has a CAP on it of 500 or even less per upload, sorry:blush:

How about Jumbofiles.com
http://jumbofiles.com/
It has a 1GB cap per file so it should work.

UPDATE:

Version 23, 11 May 12, 7:30 P.M.

There are 2 parts, part 1 of 2 and Part 2 of 2. See d/l area. For now.

UPDATE:

Version 23, 11 May 12, 7:30 P.M.

There are 2 parts, part 1 of 2 and Part 2 of 2. See d/l area. For now.

Aaaah thanks for all the hard work guys, really make my ciV gathering dusts in the shelve :goodjob:.
:goodjob:.:goodjob:.:goodjob:.:goodjob:.

Just wondering if the Leaderhead and Movie link is for v23 already? (if so I will download them also ^^)

Just wondering if the Leaderhead and Movie link is for v23 already? (if so I will download them also ^^)

They have been the same for quite awhile, and really not going to change anymore, but in answer toy your question, YES.

I can't find the link for part 2.

I can't find the link for part 2.

How to do 2 parts of C2C

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11490807&postcount=6032

It in the download area, just under the 1st paragraph.

where do I put the files fo the 2 part of the download? I mean, in which folder do I put them?
I'm getting hundreds of XML errors, so I think I put them in the wrong place

Torrent link for v23 (magnet:?xt=urn:btih:5G5EGM4QQJHKZJLFQQ677O6AK6ESI ZW5)

where do I put the files fo the 2 part of the download? I mean, in which folder do I put them?
I'm getting hundreds of XML errors, so I think I put them in the wrong place
Into the "Assets" mod's subfolder :)