Caveman 2 Cosmos [Archive] - Page 7 - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

Thunderbrd

Mar 22, 2011, 09:21 PM

I'm sorry, but throughout this discussion you seem to assume that all of us who want to play what seems to be a marvelous Mod are experienced mod makers our selves. Well, I am not and the cryptic answer above is somewhat less than helpful.

For example; (1) does the unzipped folder "Leader Heads FPK" require placement in the "... Beyond The Sword/Assets" folder or the "... Caveman2Cosmos/Assets" folder?

(2) Should there now be a resulting new folder entitled "Leader Heads FPK" in the correct "Assets" folder or should there instead be (in the Assets folder) just the three files contained in the "Leader Heads FPK"?

(3) What should the correct path be to the "Custom Leaderheads" folder? Something like "... Caveman2Cosmos/Assets/Modules/Custom Leaderheads" or something else?

Your time and effort in clarifying these issues for those of us less experienced would be greatly appreciated.
I had this problem on the forums when I started about here too... we've all been there at some point.

1)FPKs should go in the assets folder in the MOD folder, not just BtS.
2) No. FPKs should just go into the assets folder without being inside a subfolder. They are the graphics files condensed and readable from that location.
3) You have the correct path for the Custom Leaderheads folder listed there. Yes, inside the Modules folder. A Custom Civilizations folder would be in there as well. If there is already some data there just merge the two and overwright with any newer files.

Thunderbrd

Mar 22, 2011, 09:24 PM

Is there new music for all of the technology eras? This is more important than anything else. Without new entertaining music for the eras, the game will fall apart. This should be priority one over anything else.

Now that's an interesting take on things. I'm not taking much part in the newer era stuff so far but I'm surprised to hear this perspective. I don't even turn on the music... drives me nuts after a while no matter what the era or how cool the track may be at first. I think there's ways of importing music files you may currently have into the game by having the xml point to those files. Perhaps you could assist us in this effort by finding some keen tracks for these eras?

Bezhukov

Mar 22, 2011, 10:30 PM

Praetyre

Mar 22, 2011, 11:01 PM

Personally, I'd rank cosmetic stuff like building graphics, music, quotes and the like near the bottom of the priority list. I'd rather focus on eliminating all current bugs and balance issues, lest a layer of polish be applied to an unfinished product.

Incidentally, having playtested the latest version, I'm wondering: Does map size effect technological development, am I playing on too low a speed (Snail, which I've heard is the "intended") or is the starting date a bit too late for many of the technologies (Petroglyphs have been around since 12-10,000 BC, while Burial Rites predate modern man). Given that I've just reached the classical era in 323 BC (and consistently rank in the top 3 for advanced, size, power and culture) and discovered writing about half a century back, I think something, either cost wise or date wise, is a bit off.

Of course, different civilizations progress at different rates, and for about a third of my thus-far around 800 turn game I've been using only one city (a mistake that's cost me dearly in SMAC), and I know this mod isn't trying to do something like Rhye's, but might be something worth discussing. I understand the esteemed Hydromancerx proposed, presumably with inspiration from Empire Earth, pushing back the start date to 500,000 BC. I wouldn't go that far (given both the Toba disaster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theory) and that the "Wise wise man" dates his evolution to 200,000 BC), but I can see good arguments for an earlier startdate (with a corresponding increase in the amount of months per turn in the prehistoric, era, of course. Maybe 12 years per turn on Snail, if you picked 10,000 B.C.? That allows around 500 turns, or a sixth of a Snail game, for the prehistoric era, going by what happened in my game at least)

Buildings seem to run into a similar issue. I'm still building Chief's Huts and Dance Halls in the Classical era, which were scarcely relevant concepts to the inhabitants of Mesopotamia or Egypt, let alone Greece or Rome (course, I'm in favour of maintaining the whole "village" schtick by limiting civs to 1 pop cities till Sedentary Lifestyle, but anyway...). Maybe make them obsolete quicker, though I'm sure an earlier start date would solve most of my gripes. Either that, or I have a crappy position (though I was still able to build the Great Wall in 15 turns thanks to a nearby stone deposit...).

On another note, I also have several suggestions in regards to religion:

Another suggestion, though just as an optional game option, might be "Culturally Limited Religions". While religious preferences (some of which were tweaked in by yours truly) avoids oddities like Julius Caesar running a Yoruba theocracy, there's still something a tad odd about how religions deeply rooted in particular cultures pop up solely on the basis of who develops Technology X. I'd divide them according to the same categories as Cultural Citystyles:
Andean: Meso America
Asatru: Norse
Baha'i: Crescent (Since Persia is, after all)
Buddhism: India (yes, it's widely followed in the Orient, but by that logic we should have Christianity foundable by Anglo America)
Christianity: Middle East (Israel's files say it's this. I would have thought Arabic, Crescent and Egypt would cover all of the ME's styles, but ah well...)
Confucianism: Asia
Druid: Europe
Hellenism: Greco Roman
Hinduism: India
Islam: Arabia
Judaism: Middle East
Kemetism: Egypt
Mesopotamic: Crescent
Mormonism: Anglo America
Naghualism: Meso America
Ngaiism: Africa
Scientology: Any (it would develop first in the most advanced nations and lacks any real cultural heritage per se, being a New Age movement, so it's current status makes sense)
Shamanism: Any but Europe (Druids being their own local equivalent)
Shinto: Japan (partly for balance reasons, since I can see arguments for it being available to the other Oriental cultures)
Taoism: Asia
Tengriism: Mongolia
Voodoo: Africa (yes, the Haitian version is best known, but it originates in West Africa, as does most of Haiti's population)
Yoruba: Africa
Zoroastrianism: Crescent

Going over the styles:
Africa: Gets two.
Anglo America: Gets one, but like the civ says, it's very young by Civ standards.
Arabia: Gets one, but it's one of the Abrahamic faiths.
Asia: Gets two (pretty damn good going for just China and Korea)
Barbarian: Gets nada (obviously)
Crescent: Gets three, but it's a very influential part of the world, and one of these is a quite minor, modern one.
Egypt: Gets one, but that's accurate (in modern times, it'd be Secular and Islamic with a Christian minority) and it's one of the odder ones.
Europe: Gets one, but that's also accurate.
Greco Roman: Gets one, but see Egypt.
India: Gets two, but it's a friggin subcontinent, not to mention being neck and neck with China for the oldest continous civilization, and Buddhism is diluted across East Asia.
Iberia: Gets nada, but it's whole religious history is basically native-to-Catholic.
Japan: Gets one, but it's only one country.
Meso America: Gets two.
Mongolia: Gets one, but see Japan.
Native America: See Iberia.
Norse: Gets one, but again, it's historically accurate, and another one of the odder ones.
Russia: Gets nada, but Russia's been Atheist for most of the Modern era and the only persistant religious tradition is Orthodox Christianity.
Same goes for the other Eastern European countries.
South America: Is this one even used? I'd kill to see Age of Further Discovery's Simon Bolivar as a leaderhead, Brazil, or a loss to the weirdness of Augusto Pinochet leading the Incas. In any case, it started as and remains Christian.
South East Asia: Gets nothing, but see Iberia, and swap "Christian" for "Buddhist".
South Pacific: See Iberia.

My second idea is to eventually incorporate Abbamouse Realistic Religions (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=141585) mod, though obviously only with abbamouse's permission. My only issue with it, aside from it being made for a much earlier version of the game and a couple of technical things (Taoism increasing costs of hurrying across whole civ, rather than in city it's in), is that while I liked his idea to impose dietary restrictions on particular religions, using religious buildings to create penalties for resources doesn't sit well with me. Firstly, it doesn't offset the bonuses you get from these resources from building like the Grocery or Supermarket. Secondly, it implies presence of a building=widespread adoption of a religion. Such penalties would be better imposed by having Religion X as your state religion, and would be better represented by simply forbidding use of these resources. If there's some way to link state religion to inability to use a resource, that would be great. It was one of the first mods I played, and so I felt I might as well recommend it to join the long list of great mods that make up this modpack.

Other than that, though, the mod is absolutely fantastic, and seems to just keep getting better and better with each new release. Looking very forward to seeing this masterpiece completed one day.

Hydromancerx

Mar 23, 2011, 02:16 AM

Is there new music for all of the technology eras? This is more important than anything else. Without new entertaining music for the eras, the game will fall apart. This should be priority one over anything else.

The Galactic Era has Holt's "The Planets" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Planets) music. It seemed fitting for a Space era.

Incidentally, having playtested the latest version, I'm wondering: Does map size effect technological development, am I playing on too low a speed (Snail, which I've heard is the "intended") or is the starting date a bit too late for many of the technologies (Petroglyphs have been around since 12-10,000 BC, while Burial Rites predate modern man). Given that I've just reached the classical era in 323 BC (and consistently rank in the top 3 for advanced, size, power and culture) and discovered writing about half a century back, I think something, either cost wise or date wise, is a bit off.

Of course, different civilizations progress at different rates, and for about a third of my thus-far around 800 turn game I've been using only one city (a mistake that's cost me dearly in SMAC), and I know this mod isn't trying to do something like Rhye's, but might be something worth discussing. I understand the esteemed Hydromancerx proposed, presumably with inspiration from Empire Earth, pushing back the start date to 500,000 BC. I wouldn't go that far (given both the Toba disaster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theory) and that the "Wise wise man" dates his evolution to 200,000 BC), but I can see good arguments for an earlier startdate (with a corresponding increase in the amount of months per turn in the prehistoric, era, of course. Maybe 12 years per turn on Snail, if you picked 10,000 B.C.? That allows around 500 turns, or a sixth of a Snail game, for the prehistoric era, going by what happened in my game at least)

1. I belive we ran into a problem when trying to redo the date. It have a weird "flashy crashy" error. While this error still appears once an awhile its far less now that we left the date alone. In addition the date should not matter. As said by Afforess back with RoM he wished there was not a date at all and for a short time even hide it from view so people would not complain about the dates not matching the tech. However when he did that he got a huge backlash asking where the date went and he put it back in. Needless to say the date really means nothing when it comes to this game. Some games are extremely slow while others are fast. All you really need to worry about is the turn and what era your in.

2. Esteemed?! Thank you. :blush:

Praetyre

Mar 23, 2011, 07:47 AM

Hmm... some unusually quick thinking led me to check the game speed file and learn some of it's inner workings. I've custom tweaked the turn intervals and tech/building times to give a pace of play and growth more to my own satisfaction. While, of course, one man's treasure is another man's trash, I'd be happy to offer it up as a new gamespeed (currently, it replaces the stats for Eternity, since it has the same number of turns.) if anyone's interested, though it would probably take a bit longer to make it seperate in it's own right.

strategyonly

Mar 23, 2011, 08:40 AM

Highblood89

Mar 23, 2011, 12:07 PM

Tim_Olaguna

Mar 23, 2011, 01:10 PM

I had this problem on the forums when I started about here too... we've all been there at some point.

1)FPKs should go in the assets folder in the MOD folder, not just BtS.
2) No. FPKs should just go into the assets folder without being inside a subfolder. They are the graphics files condensed and readable from that location.
3) You have the correct path for the Custom Leaderheads folder listed there. Yes, inside the Modules folder. A Custom Civilizations folder would be in there as well. If there is already some data there just merge the two and overwright with any newer files.

Thanks for your excellent response. Your clarifications are most helpful! :)

JosEPh_II

Mar 23, 2011, 02:03 PM

Anybody have any experience getting rid of blacked-out terrain? There is a note in another mod that says to alt-tab, then back to fix it, but that doesn't work. I'm only having this problem with CtoC.

No, I'm not talking about fog-of-war; the game loads up and only trees show up for terrain, everything else is black.

Bezhukov,
Would you perhaps have a RoM or AND Mod version in your BtS/Mods folder? If you do they will need to be moved outside of the Civ IV/BtS/ Mods path or they interfere with C2C.

Give that a try.

JosEPh :)

Hydromancerx

Mar 23, 2011, 03:31 PM

I would really like to say THANK YOU:goodjob: to the modders currently helping out, this last change has made a huge difference (not out yet, Beta1), i really like the Myth stuff and quite a few of the buildings (trainers/poison stuff etc) and now even the dll has it were the Barbarians start again invading from water vehicles and making more regular towns. Thew NEW tech tree colors.

This is turning out to be a FABULOUS project; So again in my personal opinion and respect to them, THANK YOU;).

You're welcome and also thanks. I agree that the new tech tree colors make the tree look awesome now. Also the myth stuff has helped move things along with their science in the prehistoric era. Now if we could only get the AI to build subdued animal buildings. :sad:

I can't wait to see CF's new Spacepedia/Astropedia in action. The whole AToM stuff should make C2C even more epic. We have come a long way from AND and even longer from RoM. I really think this mod is becoming unique and not just an add-on to exiting mods. I really wonder what Afforess or Zappara would think of this mod now.

Thunderbrd

Mar 23, 2011, 10:35 PM

I agree... I still think we need a full on forum for our mod... would really help. We should all pm the moderators with that request! Has this not become one of the most active mods on the site in C4? Too bad they don't wanna let us! :mad:

Hmm... animals aren't being used to build the buildings by the ai? I would have thought they were. I'll look deeper to see if we I can try advancing the routine a bit. (you may wish to attempt to give subdued animals the animal ai now based on the current dll... it may work.)

I feel we're definately making AND all it ever could be here. And there's still so much to do! It is coming together quite nicely however.

Dancing Hoskuld

Mar 24, 2011, 02:20 AM

Praetyre

Mar 24, 2011, 02:23 AM

Dancing Hoskuld

Mar 24, 2011, 03:17 AM

strategyonly

Mar 24, 2011, 06:31 AM

Am I just an imbecile, or does Advanced Diplomacy not work? I have it enabled in a game as Spain, as well as the "Start as minor civ" option, and while I've been able to make peace with the Chinese and even trade techs, it's not mentioning anything about embassies nor any of the other possible agreements (Even if China didn't want any of these agreements, wouldn't they still be there, just red-texted out like the other no-gos?)

Also, is the option that changes civ names based on civics gone? I could have sworn I remember seeing it in an earlier version, and I thought it was a wonderful example of how little things can add so much atmosphere.

You need to turn Advance Diplomacy options on in the BUG options as well. Silly I know they should turn on if you choose AD but don't. (AND tag)

Similarly you need to turn on the naming option in the RevDCM tag of the BUG options.

I tell you what, try this:

Make a copy of C2C in the mods folder, BUT this time in the one your going to play, delete ALL the files INSIDE of UserSettings Folder (its in the same folder area as Assets). That should give you ALL the NORMAL settings of a game, then you can go into the "Lady Bug" on the screen when you first start to play and pick and choose ANY option(s) you want or dont want, let me know how that works, ok. From then on you JUST use the "BUG" options and nothing else.

Thunderbrd

Mar 24, 2011, 09:25 AM

I am currently writing what the AI should do with all (non-barbarian) animal units. As expected it is not simple. When I have it clearly written out I will post it on the discussion thread for comment, since it will be biased to what I think should be done with them.

You'll need me to implement that in the dll, wouldn't you? I understand some ai matters can be done in Py though so I'm not sure.

Vaya

Mar 24, 2011, 02:42 PM

strategyonly

Mar 24, 2011, 02:50 PM

I just copied new version of C2C, ran a first game and I noticed two things..

1.)Aluminium becomes available after researching mining.. Istn't it too soon?
2.)I'm not sure but if I remember right there was an installation file in previous versions allowing to choose interface color. There is no installer in this version so my question is whether I can switch it somehow manually?

Thx

Sure its actually pretty easy, IF you have AND that is (just dont have it in the same mod area as C2C is all):

Go into the AND assets/modules/Interface Colors, and place this folder in the same spot for C2C.

Then while your in that area there is a file called: MLF_CIV4ModularLoadingControls;

Change this:

<Module>
<Directory>Interface Colors</Directory>
<bLoad>0</bLoad>
</Module>

to this:

<Module>
<Directory>Interface Colors</Directory>
<bLoad>1</bLoad>
</Module>

then change the colors to your hearts content. (But it has to be started before you play a game).

Antmanbrooks

Mar 24, 2011, 02:51 PM

Does anyone know how to ammend the date for advanced starts? I chose an advanced start - Renaissance and the year was 1187 BC. I can't find where to change this anywhere?

Dancing Hoskuld

Mar 24, 2011, 03:45 PM

I have made a thread to discuss the proposed AI for the UNITCOMBAT_ANIMAL units here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=416383).

DoubleRD77

Mar 24, 2011, 04:00 PM

What is the latest completely functional version of next war advanced, not a buggy one. The version I have is the one with the theme song "fat bottomed girl." Is there a more advanced one than that, that is as bug free as that version. If so, please post the link to it immediately! I want to play it :)

Bezhukov

Mar 25, 2011, 12:12 AM

Bezhukov,
Would you perhaps have a RoM or AND Mod version in your BtS/Mods folder? If you do they will need to be moved outside of the Civ IV/BtS/ Mods path or they interfere with C2C.

Give that a try.

JosEPh :)

Works like a charm.

My god, what a mod. We're nearing the holy grail here.

Bezhukov

Mar 25, 2011, 10:38 AM

lukaslucznik

Mar 25, 2011, 03:17 PM

The mod opens normaly but when i click on single player i get error if i try on multi i get error on graphic initialization.

Thunderbrd

Mar 25, 2011, 04:46 PM

Actually, it was just teasing me, now its back to black after a nice game played for several hours just to get to where the game usually starts.

Completely deleted AND and Next War, reinstalled, nothing works.

I often need a restart after having previously played a game to keep this from happening. Try that. If it doesn't work, there's some more options but see if you can optimize your graphics card a bit - the black terrain is a matter of running out of graphic memory so clearing the cache often works. I've noted that some overlapping graphic files can cause this too but I don't think that would be the problem here...

@lukaslucznik: you may have a bad install. Try deleting it entirely and trying to put it in place all over again. That would be step one anyhow.

@DoubleRD77: should be the one you can download from the first page of this thread.

Bezhukov

Mar 25, 2011, 10:35 PM

I often need a restart after having previously played a game to keep this from happening. Try that. If it doesn't work, there's some more options but see if you can optimize your graphics card a bit - the black terrain is a matter of running out of graphic memory so clearing the cache often works. I've noted that some overlapping graphic files can cause this too but I don't think that would be the problem here...

Thx for the reply. So far nothing works - any advice on optimizing the graphics card would be appreciated. It's an ATI Radeon 5700 with 2.7GB total available graphics memory, 1 GB dedicated video memory.

Mod looks amazing - would like to give it a few more spins.

DoubleRD77

Mar 25, 2011, 10:39 PM

Could you please post a link for all of the builds of this mod. That way we can get the most recent one that has the least amount bugs, until the current one is ironed out a bit more. I am not really computer savvy, so installing these mods for me is a nightmare.

JosEPh_II

Mar 25, 2011, 11:04 PM

Thx for the reply. So far nothing works - any advice on optimizing the graphics card would be appreciated. It's an ATI Radeon 5700 with 2.7GB total available graphics memory, 1 GB dedicated video memory.

Mod looks amazing - would like to give it a few more spins.

That card uses DX10 or DX11 iirc. You may need to re-install the DX9.0c that came with the BtS install CD. I know it's redundant but it sometimes clears up the Black terrain. Especially considering the Vid card is More than capable of running the graphics.

JosEPh

Ghundio

Mar 26, 2011, 12:08 PM

2 quick questions:
What does the militia mod do? Can't find it on the forums and there is no civopedia entry on it which leads me to my next question,
How difficult is it to add/update the tech stuff and the civopedia stuff? Do you need help?

Bezhukov

Mar 26, 2011, 01:08 PM

That card uses DX10 or DX11 iirc. You may need to re-install the DX9.0c that came with the BtS install CD. I know it's redundant but it sometimes clears up the Black terrain. Especially considering the Vid card is More than capable of running the graphics.

JosEPh

Heh, that install CD is long gone. Tried getting it from the web, etc.. nothing working so far. BTW all other mods work fine, so wondering if this is something with CtoC?

strategyonly

Mar 26, 2011, 02:46 PM

JosEPh_II

Mar 26, 2011, 04:25 PM

Edit: Moved to proper forum/thread

Thunderbrd

Mar 26, 2011, 06:15 PM

I'm not running on a fully current build so I really can't test it for you. Though from what you said in the other thread, it didn't look like you were running the C2C mod but I know that what that error message states can be deceiving. Have you tried to get the more recent updated dll (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10319095&postcount=1513)? From what you say the game is doing, however, I suspect the fix in that dll doesn't cover your problem which is one I haven't seen so I'm not sure how to help since I can't run your game.

I could get an updated file system but I have a lot of other issues to address at the moment.

JosEPh_II

Mar 26, 2011, 09:54 PM

Oh I was running the C2C mod version Beta 10. I had been playing all afternoon with my grandson watching. He likes strategy's runningman icon, he's 4. And during the end of turn waits he would ask me to make the runningman do things, like run along the roads and dance on units heads and such. lol

It was a bummer when it crashed. And then crashed a 2nd time after doing a reload from a previous save.

I'll try the .dll you posted. It goes in the Mods main assets folder correct?

JosEPh

lukaslucznik

Mar 27, 2011, 05:27 AM

@Thunderbrd also don't work

Thunderbrd

Mar 27, 2011, 11:23 AM

Joe: yes... and it sounds like there's some hope that the newer dll may fix your issue.

Lukas: meh... I didn't figure it would from what you stated. In fact, you've got a whole new issue to anything I've heard of. I'd say start over. Delete the mod from the mods folder and reinstall the mod from scratch. Then try.

Bez: Have you put the new leaders/civs in the game and are finding it impossible to get rid of the black terrain? Try this: DON'T put the extra civs and LHs in first (just to test things there because somehow you may have a conflict - there was a known problem with the Israeli and Confederate art defines and I'm not sure if your files have that fix nor if it could have even caused this problem for you). Also: open the civ ini file. There is a link to it from the Beyond the Sword folder. Scroll down, change the value on memorysaver to 1, save, and close it out. Then relaunch. See if that helps.

Bezhukov

Mar 27, 2011, 11:34 AM

Bez: Have you put the new leaders/civs in the game and are finding it impossible to get rid of the black terrain? Try this: DON'T put the extra civs and LHs in first (just to test things there because somehow you may have a conflict - there was a known problem with the Israeli and Confederate art defines and I'm not sure if your files have that fix nor if it could have even caused this problem for you). Also: open the civ ini file. There is a link to it from the Beyond the Sword folder. Scroll down, change the value on memorysaver to 1, save, and close it out. Then relaunch. See if that helps.

I didn't put them in - I just did the regular install, but there are files for Israel in there (i.e. and Israel.FPK file and Israel stuff in the Custom Civs folder). There is not an entry for Israel in the regular civs config file tho.

Strange that it would cause black terrain in any case.

strategyonly

Mar 27, 2011, 12:20 PM

I didn't put them in - I just did the regular install, but there are files for Israel in there (i.e. and Israel.FPK file and Israel stuff in the Custom Civs folder). There is not an entry for Israel in the regular civs config file tho.

Strange that it would cause black terrain in any case.

The only thing wrong with the Israel civ is that the ArtStyle needs to be changed from:

<ArtStyleType>ARTSTYLE_MIDDLE_EAST</ArtStyleType>

to this:

<ArtStyleType>ARTSTYLE_ARABIA</ArtStyleType>

in the CivilizationInfo file.

Other than that i took over 5 hours fixing the rest.

Bezhukov

Mar 28, 2011, 11:53 AM

The only thing wrong with the Israel civ is that the ArtStyle needs to be changed from:

<ArtStyleType>ARTSTYLE_MIDDLE_EAST</ArtStyleType>

to this:

<ArtStyleType>ARTSTYLE_ARABIA</ArtStyleType>

in the CivilizationInfo file.

Other than that i took over 5 hours fixing the rest.

Appreciate all the work - just trying to figure out how to get your awesome mod to work. The strange thing is that it worked for several hours, and now I can't get a game to start (without the black terrain).

BTW, I tried turning on modular XML loading in the config file (other mods that work have this turned on) and got all kinds of XML errors loading CtC, including eventually several that mentioned zero allocated memory.

strategyonly

Mar 28, 2011, 12:20 PM

Appreciate all the work - just trying to figure out how to get your awesome mod to work. The strange thing is that it worked for several hours, and now I can't get a game to start (without the black terrain).

BTW, I tried turning on modular XML loading in the config file (other mods that work have this turned on) and got all kinds of XML errors loading CtC, including eventually several that mentioned zero allocated memory.

I am coming out with a newer BETA sometime today, just go for that one, ok, and btw NEVER EVER turn on modular loading, it will break everything. Cause WoC is already modular.

nichopoleve

Mar 28, 2011, 12:38 PM

I am still having problems with turn timer.
Its in the medieval era now and still it takes 2 min for a turn to end.
The game freeze and the running man shows up, then after a minute there is a small movement on units in the screen then another minute until the game starts.

Strategyonly you said you had 2 min turn time in Transhuman era.
Why do I have it in Medieval era?
I have a quad core i7 machine with ssd disk and 12 gb ddr3 ram that I specially bought to play this mod.
This is getting frustrating :(

Burberryan

Mar 28, 2011, 01:14 PM

I'd love to be able to run just Varietas Delectat with your own Slave Capture mod (and nothing else).

However, there are two common files which are used in both Varietas Delectat and Slave Capture:

\assets\xml\units\CIV4UnitInfos.xml
\assets\xml\art\CIV4ArtDefines_Unit.xml

I assume that Caveman 2 Cosmos have further alterations on them because of the inclusion of other mods.

Do you happen to have a copy of these two files that I can use to merge Varietas Delectat + Slave Capture (and nothing else), or tell me what would I need to copy/paste to create them ?

Thanks in advance!

EDIT - Forget about it. I went ahead and copied the marked "mod" sections from the Slave Capture XML files to the Varietas Delectat ones, and got everything sorted out. Thanks anyway!

strategyonly

Mar 28, 2011, 01:34 PM

UPDATED to BETA 10.1, 28 Mar 11, 2:30 P.M.

New dll, Modern Sniper now has para-drop, Subdue Animals now has Myth totems included.

Plus alot more. Over 200 changes

CHUCK GARCIA

Mar 28, 2011, 05:35 PM

krushyn

Mar 28, 2011, 10:10 PM

Strangest thing happened in my game. I work on 10.1 and just had a slave unit upgraded to the assimilated type: Legion. I had a General around so I joined it to that Legion and had a first fight with some Roman leftover. My strong/overkill unit obviously won, but...... at the same time after some "green"/log influence info just disappeared in the thin air without warning. What could happened? Never happened before .... just a fluke? I hate loosing freshly nominated slave generals to the some weird Bermuda triangle......:confused:

Burberryan

Mar 29, 2011, 05:46 AM

krushyn: from strategyonly's Capture Slaves (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=336469) description:

Once you upgrade to a unit, you can only use for one battle, even if it wins the slave/unit is lost forever.

And the other slave mods I've seen just consume the slave after whatever he's used for.

Praetyre

Mar 29, 2011, 07:24 AM

Getting this error on loadup, seems to be a minor typo or something like that:
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/9720/c2cerror.jpg

strategyonly

Mar 29, 2011, 07:52 AM

Getting this error on loadup, seems to be a minor typo or something like that:
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/9720/c2cerror.jpg

What version are you using, because the Hawk was discontinued as a unit?

Praetyre

Mar 29, 2011, 09:15 AM

Thunderbrd

Mar 29, 2011, 09:24 AM

The 10.1 beta.. only thing that comes to mind is that I installed the beta, much like the 10 beta, by copying over an existing C2C installation, but I only ever got this error after installing the 10.1 beta.

This is generally a bad practice with these mod updates. You should erase the old (or move it out of the mod folder) entirely before putting the new one in. Merging won't get rid of files that have been purposefully been removed, only overwright the ones that have been changed.

Dancing Hoskuld

Mar 29, 2011, 01:31 PM

The 10.1 beta.. only thing that comes to mind is that I installed the beta, much like the 10 beta, by copying over an existing C2C installation, but I only ever got this error after installing the 10.1 beta.

The hunting lodge was renames in 10.1 beta and the Hawk was removed in 9 or 10beta. However if you just installed over a previous version the folder with the Hawk in it would be left over from the previous install. There will also be other artifacts in Subdue Animals since I have merged many experimental bits into the main files from subfolders. Since C2C is WoC based your version will not be the same as the release version.

krushyn

Mar 29, 2011, 05:18 PM

krushyn: from strategyonly's Capture Slaves (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=336469) description:

And the other slave mods I've seen just consume the slave after whatever he's used for.
..... funny :lol: I guess I had never used those units with generals attached before and rarely for fighting in general.
Thanks for the tip . :goodjob:

Thunderbrd

Mar 30, 2011, 12:47 AM

Ok, took me all night but here's a fix. When I noticed you were on Epic speed rather than Snail, I reviewed my math to discover I'd royally screwed the pooch on all speeds outside of epic. This SHOULD work barring the potential that I may not understand every possible pitfall where this tricky little xml is concerned. And any feedback from anyone using this file is welcome.

It IS savegame compatable and should probably be used by anyone playing this build immediately. (It fixed your savegame too SO.)

Praetyre

Mar 30, 2011, 02:10 AM

Err, is it intentional that Eternity now lasts 14,448 turns and the "intended" Snail 9900 (insert power level joke here)? Admittedly, I myself ran into issues with what I assume to be a linear, "downward" time progression and the new eras (at least, I don't think it's possible to have one interval of time have more months per turn than it's predecessor...), but even I only ever considered 9000 as a "double" version of my personal edits to Eternity.

Thunderbrd

Mar 30, 2011, 09:51 AM

To some extent, it is intentional. Once you zoom in down to one month per turn around the year 2000, its going to be a heck of a lot of turns to take us to 3000.

That said, I don't think I made it so that any intervals of time had more months than its predecessor... I wonder if it would work if we did actually. And it would make sense in some respects. - really, I don't see why it'd create a problem. I'll have to test around with that but then I haven't played the lategame eras yet so I have no idea how long they would take to research those techs, etc...

Makes you think of our actual world doesn't it? Where WILL we be in the year 3k at this rate of progress (assuming it somehow continues)? Sheesh!

So, yeah, this file doesn't work too well for those who like timed games.

I plan to do some more 'tinkering' at some point... this was an initial 'fix' for problems we were having and I tried to get it to somewhat accurately reflect man's progress. That said, I need some help from the team and our playtesters:

Is there any way we can get some definition to the tech progress of an 'average' civ with our tech tree? If this could be in some way defined it would make the design of our time map a bit more accurate. Even just defining how many turns it takes for an average civ to reach key defining era changing techs would be a huge benefit. And it would need to be charted out for each gamespeed as well, because just working with straight fractions tends to NOT work too well.

Then we could look at some of the historical timeline graphs of human progression and attempt to blend the information a bit.

The quick and simple way to narrow in on some accuracy with the timeline is to take pretty much any given game and take a look at what year Theology is founded by the first civ to reach it. It should be near or at 0BC.

This effort also asks us to look at how 'expensive' techs throughout given eras are. For the sake of gameplay itself, I think v9 was given fairly decent research expenses, except that from my experiences with all the many buildings that give extra research, the middle ages seems to really race through. SO FAR, my impression is that we may need to increase the research costs by a cumulative 5% increase starting in the Ancient era (prehistoric moves just right). So then, the Classical era would be 10% more expensive for each tech and the Dark Age era would be 15% more expensive and so on etc... (I think I've named them in order but could be wrong.)

I remember playing AND at one point (an earlier version) and found that the late game went waaaaay too fast (we were researching over 1 tech per round - not a great way to really get the flavor of each era - at maximum possible research, even 5 rounds to a given tech is fairly quick.)

Anyhow... that's my 2 :commerce:.

Solitude102

Mar 30, 2011, 10:37 AM

strategyonly

Mar 30, 2011, 12:36 PM

I apologize for asking such a "noobish" question. But how do you install the leader heads for this mod?. I'm under the assumption that I have to placed the XML folders & "CIV4ModularLoadingControlsSchema" under modules but what about these strange FPK files? :confused:

Thats no problem, and thx for asking: Look at the attached, if it looks like they go here you are correct.

http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u338/strategyonly/FPK.jpg

Bezhukov

Mar 30, 2011, 02:31 PM

Bezhukov

Mar 30, 2011, 02:32 PM

Thats no problem, and thx for asking: Look at the attached, if it looks like they go here you are correct.

http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u338/strategyonly/FPK.jpg

You guys really need an installer or somewhere people can get directions to get this thing running properly. You're assuming way too much modding knowledge on the part of the public.

Thunderbrd

Mar 30, 2011, 06:56 PM

Ugh, this is torture.

Downloaded the new version, worked great, had a good game going, several reloads no problem, then had to get out of the game to answer some e-mail, and on reloading now the terrain is all black again.

Tried loading from autosave, clearing cache, play now, loading autosave, restarting computer. all black terrain.

This is utterly bizarre - what could possibly be causing it?

I find this problem elusive to identify and solve. I have also found that overlapping files packed into the FPK graphics can cause this as a repetitive problem. I had the Israel FPK overlapping some of its graphic references with the original extra civ FPKs and by disabling the Israel FPK, I was able to stop the problem.

Not that it never happens now but a restart clears it up. Its also been a problem others have been making note of more and more recently and I'm wondering if it has something to do WITH the Israel FPK, but I can't be sure what it'd do if you disabled it without taking Israel out entirely.

Bezhukov

Mar 30, 2011, 07:22 PM

I had this bug were it was not showing terrain textures (just black ground) on this computer which has 4gb RAM as well as a computer at work which has 16gb. I got this with other mods too. Seems to be related to big fpk files. Unpacking the C2C.fpk and erasing it made everything work fine. (Although the load time are now quite horrible! :yuck:)

And last but not least thing, I just want to thank strategyonly and team for making this mod. Since discovering ROM I wanted to integrate other mods with it to play one gigantic game from prehistory to the future, but I lacked motivation, time and talent. You now make my dream come true. Thank you so much for your hard work, it's very appreciated!

Yeah, this mod plays better than anything I've seen (and I've been playing since the original including the Activision games, Double Your Pleasure/Rise and Rule, FfH etc...).

Can anyone tell me how I "unpack the C2C.fpk and erase it"?

Bezhukov

Mar 30, 2011, 07:25 PM

I find this problem elusive to identify and solve. I have also found that overlapping files packed into the FPK graphics can cause this as a repetitive problem. I had the Israel FPK overlapping some of its graphic references with the original extra civ FPKs and by disabling the Israel FPK, I was able to stop the problem.

Not that it never happens now but a restart clears it up. Its also been a problem others have been making note of more and more recently and I'm wondering if it has something to do WITH the Israel FPK, but I can't be sure what it'd do if you disabled it without taking Israel out entirely.

How do I do this?

:mischief:

Now that CivV officially blows (at least for the time being), you'll likely be getting more people here who don't know all the ins and outs of modding. I'm trying to learn what I can, but I've never had to know how to mod just to play one before.

Bezhukov

Mar 30, 2011, 07:28 PM

I find this problem elusive to identify and solve. I have also found that overlapping files packed into the FPK graphics can cause this as a repetitive problem. I had the Israel FPK overlapping some of its graphic references with the original extra civ FPKs and by disabling the Israel FPK, I was able to stop the problem.

Not that it never happens now but a restart clears it up. Its also been a problem others have been making note of more and more recently and I'm wondering if it has something to do WITH the Israel FPK, but I can't be sure what it'd do if you disabled it without taking Israel out entirely.

The actual strange thing is that it ever worked. I can erase everything, reboot, and reinstall and I still get the black terrain. Once it goes black, it never goes back.

Dancing Hoskuld

Mar 30, 2011, 10:34 PM

The actual strange thing is that it ever worked. I can erase everything, reboot, and reinstall and I still get the black terrain. Once it goes black, it never goes back.

I sometimes have some units go pink. the only way I can fix it is to reinstall BtS and patch it to 3.19. Luckily you can do this without losing any mods. Maybe try that.

Thunderbrd

Mar 31, 2011, 09:16 AM

How do I do this?

:mischief:

Now that CivV officially blows (at least for the time being), you'll likely be getting more people here who don't know all the ins and outs of modding. I'm trying to learn what I can, but I've never had to know how to mod just to play one before.

Ok, well, first, go into the Assets/Modules/Custom Civlizations file and delete (or simply move since you don't want to make this a permanent deletion until we know it works) the Israel file.

Then go back out into the Assets file and move the Israel.FPK file out of the mod.

Then try to run it and see if the black persists. If it works, we may have some sort of problem with the Israel FPK file. (Sorry SO... going on a theory here.)

Bezhukov

Mar 31, 2011, 11:47 AM

Ok, well, first, go into the Assets/Modules/Custom Civlizations file and delete (or simply move since you don't want to make this a permanent deletion until we know it works) the Israel file.

Then go back out into the Assets file and move the Israel.FPK file out of the mod.

Then try to run it and see if the black persists. If it works, we may have some sort of problem with the Israel FPK file. (Sorry SO... going on a theory here.)

Thanks for the reply.

On of the good things about making a great mod is that people will actually go through the trouble of teaching themselves about modding if that is what it takes to get to play it.

:)

Last night I figured out what FPK files are, unpacked the big FPK and (noticing that it created a folder called art) merged it with the existing art folder. There were in fact 15 files that it asked me about (the versions of those files in the FPK were uncapitilized, those in the art folder capitalized) so there is some overlap there. I then deleted the original big FPK and the Israel FPK for good measure (didn't know about the custom civs piece) and voila! problem solved.

Also load times that reminded me of 1995...

More importantly, the game continued!

JosEPh_II

Mar 31, 2011, 04:44 PM

Great to see you figured it out Bezhukov! :goodjob:

JosEPh

Thunderbrd

Mar 31, 2011, 09:32 PM

wow... an excellent outcome there. Nice way to go about auditing the fpk files. You could also do us all a favor and post your final fpk files with some instructions on what they override ;)

On of the good things about making a great mod is that people will actually go through the trouble of teaching themselves about modding if that is what it takes to get to play it.
No doubt, right? I mean, that's the only reason I, myself, have learned any tricks is because I'm so enamored of this mod.

Also load times that reminded me of 1995...
Has it improved turn times as well? Makes me think maybe having so many distinct and separate FPKs might be contributing a great deal to long turn and load times. It thus would not be difficult to combine them all. If certain files within don't get used, that shouldn't make for a problem so why not include them all in one? This could revolutionalize the playability of our mod entirely.

Bezhukov

Mar 31, 2011, 09:35 PM

Great to see you figured it out Bezhukov! :goodjob:

JosEPh

Thx. It's a very silly game. One city founded eight or nine religions, 4 turn Plaza (the wonder that gives you markets) build in 5000BC, +80 gpt on 100% science.

Some tweaking may be in order...

Dancing Hoskuld

Mar 31, 2011, 09:59 PM

Thx. It's a very silly game. One city founded eight or nine religions, 4 turn Plaza (the wonder that gives you markets) build in 5000BC, +80 gpt on 100% science.

Some tweaking may be in order...

Do you have the "Divine Prophets" option on? I find that it causes too many Great Prophets to be born and skew the religion founding.

Thunderbrd

Mar 31, 2011, 10:49 PM

Do you have the "Divine Prophets" option on? I find that it causes too many Great Prophets to be born and skew the religion founding.

It doesn't throw it off too much if you don't have Choose Religions on as well. Still... I've been considering an overhaul of the means by which we might achieve some extra prophets for religion founding under DP... as it is I have to agree that it throws the balance a bit.

That said, I also forsee overhauling ALL of the 'first to reach a tech' benefits. As a general rule, they simply serve to give the leading civ a farther lead, which I don't really think has benefited the game play of CivIV and prev Civs as a whole. It would be better if the game did more to help those behind catch up instead (we have some of that with tech diffusion now and it does help but we could use more of this thinking.)

To answer to:
+80 gpt on 100% science.
This mod expresses a difference between gold and commerce. Commerce alone can be split by the tax rate percentages but that which provides purely gold will only go towards your gold per round count. This is how you can end up with excess gold coming in when you're on 100% research. In some ways, this changes some strategic thinking when it comes to managing your empire.

And, yes, under Divine Prophets, cities are no longer randomly assigned religions - they are founded by prophets - and the ai will place new religions wherever they get their prophet - which will always be in the capital if the prophet was achieved by reaching a religion founding tech first (a free prophet replaces the automatic assignment of a new religion to the first to reach techs that normally grant the founding of a religion).

So I'm thinking about finding new ways to balance out the benefits of the different GPs and then giving more ways to focus a city into the birthing of these Great People so that I can take out the free prophet feature and give us other ways to birth them normally, competing with new ways to spur the birth of OTHER GPs. To be fair about this, however, we need to think of ways to make the other GPs more worthwhile to achieve in the early game.

Some ideas:

Make artist's culture blasts a LOT more powerful (like immediately puts a city into using its 3rd rung)
Make artists capable of ending civlization-wide anarchy instantly.
Increase the gold from Merchant missions drastically.
Make merchants capable of starting a golden age alone, regardless of how many golden ages have been initiated by GPs.
Make merchants capable of forcing a civilization to end a war.
Give Engineers a potent building that only they can build that gives a strong benefit to production in that city (like the scientist's academy but for production)
Give Engineers the ability to add a vast amount of production to a city that can all be spent in the same round on a queue of buildings, etc... rather than capping out at completing a given building to counteract the fact that our wonders now take so much less time to build than they did in vanilla.
Give us some buildings that greatly increase the values of city specialists OTHER than just for prophets (currently there are like 4 buildings that add a hammer to every priest - hard for any other specialist type to compare to priests at that point... so the trick would be to give us access to buildings that help the others to balance out.)
Put some special techs with very nice benefits aside - perhaps one for each era - that ONLY a great Scientist can access. - Perhaps they could even lead to an entire alternative means to traverse the tech tree faster.
Review some of our wonders and select some to limit to purely being able to be built by a particular type of GP. Like the Sistine Chapel for example. In this way, we put the horse back in front of the cart, making it so that simpler buildings generate the basic GP points while the larger buildings are the RESULT of GPs - which is more like historic reality really.

More ideas here would be good to brainstorm out.

Praetyre

Mar 31, 2011, 11:29 PM

I like the idea of the GP-only techs and wonders.. for the techs, you could do something like what Hydromancerx was suggesting for RoM's Civ V edition, with these "special" techs representing lost or alternate paths for history. For instance:

Prehistoric: Megafauna Domestication (Both potent and alternate history)
Ancient: Ancient Computing (The Antikythera mechanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism) writ large: Big boosts to science output and the speed and power of all naval vessels right up to the atomic age. Also greatly speeds up calculation and computer-based technologies like Mathematics, Architecture, Computers, Radar etc.)
Classical: Greek Fire (Enables a new Fire Galley unit, ala Age of Empires, and a new Fire Tower building for the ultimate in pre-gunpowder defense.)
Medieval: Lost Relics (Enables the "discovery" of special items like the Ark of the Covenant, Shroud of Turin, etc. that act as world wonders with enormous benefits for particular religions. Would need at least one wonder for each religion of that time)
Renaissance: Da Vinci Tech (For lack of a better word. Early glider technology and aircraft in the Renaissance)
Industrial: Supertech (For lack of a better word, again. Think something like the early-Dreadnought that is this monstrosity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1500_Monster).
Modern: Ultraefficient Motor (Something akin to those urban legends about suppressed 200 MPG carburetors. A benefit akin to early Fusion or SMAC's Clean Reactors, with virtually no upkeep costs for engine-based units and greatly increased speed. Downside, of course, is that it would probably reduce the value of fossil fuels...)
Transhuman: Sapient AI (The potential for a global "robot rebellion", with a new faction, ala Planetfall's way of handling the SMAX factions, popping up and seceding from mankind, taking all the robotic units with it.).
Space: Time Travel (Dunno. Always difficult to use as a device without seeming contrived. Maybe some world wonder that enables you to recover any units lost in battle 10% of the time at the base the wonder is in?)

As for wonders, I very much like the idea of reducing the directly player-buildable wonders to ones that mostly just increase GP point output, and restricting things like the Sistine Chapel (largely the product of Michelangelo's vision) to GP's. You'd have to go through the list, of course, but the only other issue I can see you running into is that most "modern" wonders and projects (like the Manhattan Project, First Cloned Mammal, Cure for Cancer, Eden Project, etc.) have been "built" or will almost certainly be built collaboratively by groups of scientists working in tandem, rather than under the helm of a specific individual. Thus, most of the GP-wonders will be confined to the Renaissance.

Also, on a totally random note, I wonder what should be done with the "Civic" wonders like Women's Suffrage or Universal Healthcare. It doesn't really make sense to build these if you are running non-democratic politics or aren't using the Subsidized or Socialized Welfare civics. Perhaps remove the healthcare one and restrict Women's Suffrage to "democratic" forms of government (like Republic, Parliamentary, Federalism, etc.)

Hydromancerx

Apr 01, 2011, 05:15 AM

Some ideas:

Make artist's culture blasts a LOT more powerful (like immediately puts a city into using its 3rd rung)
Make artists capable of ending civlization-wide anarchy instantly.
Increase the gold from Merchant missions drastically.
Make merchants capable of starting a golden age alone, regardless of how many golden ages have been initiated by GPs.
Make merchants capable of forcing a civilization to end a war.
Give Engineers a potent building that only they can build that gives a strong benefit to production in that city (like the scientist's academy but for production)
Give Engineers the ability to add a vast amount of production to a city that can all be spent in the same round on a queue of buildings, etc... rather than capping out at completing a given building to counteract the fact that our wonders now take so much less time to build than they did in vanilla.
Give us some buildings that greatly increase the values of city specialists OTHER than just for prophets (currently there are like 4 buildings that add a hammer to every priest - hard for any other specialist type to compare to priests at that point... so the trick would be to give us access to buildings that help the others to balance out.)
Put some special techs with very nice benefits aside - perhaps one for each era - that ONLY a great Scientist can access. - Perhaps they could even lead to an entire alternative means to traverse the tech tree faster.
Review some of our wonders and select some to limit to purely being able to be built by a particular type of GP. Like the Sistine Chapel for example. In this way, we put the horse back in front of the cart, making it so that simpler buildings generate the basic GP points while the larger buildings are the RESULT of GPs - which is more like historic reality really.

More ideas here would be good to brainstorm out.

I like most of these ideas especially the Scientist tech one. If we could incorporate the proposed "Steampunk" and other alternative timeline techs. Then again i may want to save them to be linked to having the right combo of wonders under your control.

Czacki

Apr 01, 2011, 05:20 AM

Hello,

since AND is no longer under active development and it suffers from game breaking balance issues, I can only hope C2C will fix those :p

quoting myself from ROM:AND board:

There are many issues with this great mod.

1. Withdraw chance

Already made a thread about it. Once you reach 100% (which is uber easy!), you can't lose the unit. It it has a small-to-none chance of victory, whenever it withdraws it will be considered as epic victory in the game, and the unit will receive max exp from battle (6). If you have leadership from warlord, it will get 12 exp for basically nothing that can be repeated every turn, leading to 200-300 exp in a VERY short time. While I loved the withdrawal feature, the fact it gave exp in vanilla BTS and always had a horse archer warlord with tactics+flanking to gain massive exp in every battle with minimum risk, +12 exp per withdraw is too much, and 100% chance of withdrawing is too powerful, especially with withdraw-on-defense feature because that essentialy is immortality.

The dynamic exp system was meant to prevent abuse, but actually it's WAY more abusive than the Vanilla BTS exp system. Maybe withdraw should grant a minimal bonus only? +0.25 exp and that's it? I find it hard to like that solution though, I would never reach the high tiers with my Warlord units if they were receiving +0.5 exp per battle... :/

I've conquered whole empires with two warlord units + great commander because they couldn't be killed, and with all heaing promotions AND medic they regenerated their health super fast. It was fun for the first time, but with third empire falling to two units, I got bored. What's the point of building units if you have immortal one that kills everything?

I suggest putting a global cap at withdraw chance at 90 or 95%. Reducing the bonuses to withdraw great commanders grant would also be fun. At fourth level all armies have +60% withdraw chance! Isn't this a bit too big? 10-20-30-40% would be already a huge bonus... Right now it takes any unit with withdraw chance AND access to flanking to immortality instantly. I recommend the numbers that the great commander grants to be greatly lowered - maybe even to 5-10-15-20? Or 10-15-20-25? +25% withdraw chance is a lot already with units that have access to flanking and natural withdraw chance, like all cavalry/helicopter units.

2. Upgrades of some buildings actually downgrade their usefulness

The most notorious example is Grocer and Supermarket. The Grocer adds +25% :gold: and a LOT of :commerce: for access to certain resources. You lose ALL of that when "upgrading" to supermarket, and get what... a bit of :health: ? Why would you want that?

Either the upgrades should carry out ALL of the replaced building's bonuses, or they shouldn't be replacing them!

3. Future tech upgrades not really well thought

A few complaints - The archer, riflemen, mech.infarty and all of that have one similar bonus - they are good at defending cities. And they get replaced by Tesla infantry that sucks against wheeled/tracked units (which will probably be your main enemy at that age) and helicopters (which are great units). The idea was that the archer line is good for defense, and tesla units are more of a offensive unit (100% collateral damage to 10 units!) rather than defensive. Which is weird.

Why can't plasma armors upgrade to Dreadnought Armor? Seeing that Drednaught armor has no drawbacks (compared to Plasma Armor) and should be a natural replacement...

Why isn't there a natural progression for artillery units? NLOS cannon is the last artillery unit. Sure, there are others doing collateral damage - like that siege droid with 170 :strength: - but why can't they be an upgrade? It's more logical than cavalry upgrading to tanks, anyway.

4. Religion bonuses not mutually exclusive

Why is it possible to take ALL the religion-based upgrades? Most of the time I just get all religions first then just convert to allow my warlord to get another bonus. Shouldn't it be like that: you pick one religion-based promotion, say crusader, and the rest becomes unavailable. Because the unit being a crusader and muslim's equivalent at the same TIME is pretty illogical.

Religion-granted wonders don't stop working when you convert! You only lose their :) bonus, the rest remains. In a Islamic country, would you expect a wonder like King Richards Crusade to work? Not to mention that some are definitively bigger than others (see Buddhism wonders - Palace of Potala: +50% :science:, +20% :gold, +20% :food: stored after growth and +20% :culture:, never becoming obsolete? That's like the best "commerce" wonder there is for a cottage economy! Compared to, say, Apadama Palace of Zoroastrianism.. lower maintenance and a free promotion? nice, but doesn't even compare.)

So, the player isn't rewarded for getting a religion... he's awarded for getting all of them since he's pretty much the only one who can gain access to powerful wonders and promotions thanks to it...

It worked better in Vanilla Civ4: BTS, imho. I absolutely love the new bonuses of religions, but they ought to be mutually exclusive. (Afaik a wonder like Palace of Potala keeps working after you convert to a different religion, you just lose the ":) bonus if Buddhism is state religion"... while logically it should cease giving bonuses)

So, a better balance of bonuses for religions and mutual exclusiveness of them would be a step in right direction.

5. Too much :gold:, :food: and :health:

The cities grow large even if poorly placed, the :yuck: is never an issue because there are millions of ways to increase :health: and each country is swimming in :gold: even when REXing at 95% :science: rate. I literally swam in gold in this game. I expanded to 10 cities quickly and got +5 :gold: at 95% rate very early. When I turned it to 90%, I got +23 :gold: per turn! It's too easy to get rich, and REXing is not punished at all.

6. AI is still too weak...

Defends cities with 1-2 stacks, even Capital at wartime - BTS civ would have like 10 units there! Here I land on AI's territory, destroy 4 cities without any resistance, and reach capitol guarded by a single longbowman... after 20 turns or so.

And it wasn't a pea-sized civ, it was 2nd Civ on the scoreboard!

Where's the resistance? I know my warlord unit would trample the down even if there was 10 longbowmen there, but the AI doesn't even try.

There are many other issues but I think those should really be fixed soon :) The mod has incredible potential... but is plagued by those problems right now.

Cheers!

ANy of those fixed? Most are really spoiling the atmosphere. Making the game not challenging at all.

Bezhukov

Apr 01, 2011, 01:35 PM

Thunderbrd,

Alot of great ideas there.

There's a mod for CivV that lets to train great people to build super-improvements for each resource - that would be an interesting direction to go.

Also highly recommend checking out Realism Invictus.

Bezhukov

Apr 01, 2011, 01:52 PM

One of the several things RI does to stop runaway civs is that it gives civs a progressively larger discount (starting at 50%) when researching a tech already known by a civ with which that civ has open borders.

It's a much tighter, tho, alas, less enjoyable, game than C2C.

Thunderbrd

Apr 01, 2011, 08:32 PM

Bezhukov: Well... we'll have to take a look at some of what it does there. An interesting idea about super-improvements. And another way to help civs keep up... I like.

Czacki: I'll address these points as best I can:

1) We have had it mentioned about the withdraw percentage, that generals can make it so that high withdraw units can become invincible... I think we may have addressed it but I can't remember if we had. If we haven't, we do need to cap withdrawal percentages at 95% tops.

But then, only generals can really do this and if you can get everything around the general to flee, the general itself can still be destroyed making it not an unbeatable scenario.

2) From what I can tell, I'm not entirely sure upgrading buildings is working quite properly anyhow... seems to me you can build a lesser upgrade AFTER a greater upgrade... The point is well made, however, that if you are upgrading a building, it should be better than the previous version - especially if its going to override the benefits of the previous (which is what I'm not entirely certain is actually happening as it is supposed to...) If we have a problem with this, we do need to work on it but I'm not a master programmer by any means so in many cases where the dll programming is flawed, fixes are hard to figure out. By the time the mod is 'finished' I'm sure we will have addressed this. Its a work in progress of course ;)

3) I had a personal issue with this when I played AND as well... and yeah, it needs to be addressed. It may have been but I haven't experienced that era yet since the mod gets updated so often and the prehistoric era has been the focus until now, as we delve into working on the future. But I agree that issue was a bit annoying.

4) Ok, so this aspect may make things tough for the AI to grasp the benefits of how to tweak the system. And your proposal there does make some sense. But then again, its pretty cool to have the human brain enough to manipulate systems to your advantage. This makes the game more intense on a human v human level... and I'm not entirely sure the mod would benefit from such proposed changes. But then, everyone has their own take on how religions should be handled and we've opened a lot of debating on such matters. Things being in flux as they are, I can forsee eventual options emerging to address all these perspectives. Again, programming may become the only limitation, one which can only be overcome with a LOT of patience at the moment.

5) I love that our current system can support poorly placed cities. This helps us to balance the game where poor starting points are concerned. HOWEVER, I still notice that cities in bad spots don't show as much potential as those that have better placement. In this mod, in particular, the problem with AND and this issue has been tackled by actually going in the opposite direction. Rather than pulling back on the benefits certain resources, Hydro has masterfully expressed that by giving us special buildings based on particular resources, we can pull the game back into a balance (albeit an excessive one that appeals to a more is better style of thought (I like this thinking)).

Additionally, where gold is concerned, I'm working with Hydro to tweak the buildings so that we have a more even balance of gold income throughout all eras. Abandoning an overreliance on increasing maintenance costs that really impact most during the mid-modern eras of the game, making corporations and guilds less than beneficial, and moving more towards outright gold costs to maintain particular buildings should help to balance this out. This is something I understand Hydro is working on now. I'm sure we'll continue the tweaking process until this matter is fully resolved.

6) The ai's military is not what concerns me. Some ai's actually prefer having too much. The problem has largely been that the ai doesn't build its food and production buildings as an outright ultimate priority, so that it tends to lag in its ability to keep up with everything else later in the game, including troops and gold output to support them. I've attempted a fix in the dll on this matter and am currently looking at it in greater depth to continue to work on improvements there. You're right... the ai has never been much of a challenge in AND and its worse here with even more buildings to consider. So, the short answer is, yeah, I'm working on that personally because that one's the most important of your list to address IMHO.

Praetyr: I like most of your suggestions - they'll have to be debated out a bit more before implementation and we already have a lot on our plate so this isn't something we can expect so see overnight. But most of those are good places to start considering, one era at a time.

As for the wonders where you mentioned that 'teams' of scientists developed various wonders, I still think that a great scientist could be made to create them. I mean, even teams are under the lead of a great mind at its core. The Manhattan Project would've gotten nowhere without Oppenheimer, for example.

Dancing Hoskuld

Apr 01, 2011, 11:13 PM

Czacki

Apr 02, 2011, 02:17 AM

Thunderbrd, thanks for detailed reply!

I'd add some thoughts on some points:

1) This actually may be used to the mod's advantage and could be a way to eliminate stacks of doom. Because an experienced army with a great warlord will easily trample a five-times bigger stack of doom, making experienced units much more valuable than in vanilla, where quantity was better than quality almost all the time. And let's face it, most people prefer smaller, stronger stacks than brainless mass of 100 axemen. If you chose to balance it this way, increasing troop maintenance cost and getting AI to "smarten up" and use warlord/commander units wisely would be an interesting move. Everybody hated stacks of doom in vanilla, so a mod that focuses on small, powerful stacks would be an interesting experience.

Thing is, however, not to overdo it with the power of experienced warlord units :p I'd suggest, if possible, to halve the bonus from retreat (+3 exp instead of +6) to reduce the speed at which warlord units gain experience a bit if dynamic XP is on. I'm happy to know you're going to cap out the withdraw to 95%, there should always be a failure chance. ;)

Also, if possible, it would be wise to tweak withdraw on defense a bit. For instance, limit it to 1 retreat per turn, so if the stack gets pursuited, it gets destroyed.

The absolute best would be to somehow link retreat chance with unit strength (checked pre-combat). If the unit is really weak and next-to-dead, it's only logical it cannot escape so well like a healthy, rested one. THis is however only wishful thinking, I have no idea on whether this is even code-able.

2. A quick solution to fix this without troubling you with too much analytic work over the building bonuses would be to unlink some buildings, so that i.e. grocer no longer upgrades to (and gets obsoleted by) supermarket. That would put the whole upgrade issues to an okay state without much work.

4. Well, that makes sense of course. However, the AI doesn't prioritize religion much so far, overwhelmed by the amounts of tech a bit, and it's too easy for the player to get them all. I do agree it's extremely fun to have all of them, but also it's too easy! in vanilla it was really, really hard to snatch religions from AI, and there, the bonuses for getting one were much lower (no special upgrades, religious wonders less powerful).

And certain religious wonders should be buffed so they match palace of potala level.

strategyonly

Apr 02, 2011, 03:02 AM

On the point of religions, I/"we" am/are waiting for Afforess to come out with his final version (i bet it wont be) but anyways, 1.76, then "we" get a brand NEW Limited religions, that RevDCM Team says works fine. But he said he wont do it till after school is out and that will be May 31. So it will take us awhile to incorporate his stuff back into our stuff, and vice versa. SO i would expect the religion stuff to work sometime in the Jun/Jul/Aug time frame.

But i do agree on the AI being to easy, that was also done by Afforess and making them defend more.

EDIT: All you really need to do is check "Raging Barbarians" and that should make up the difference, cause then the AI HAS to make more troops than anything else to survive., Just a thought for now.

Hydromancerx

Apr 02, 2011, 03:58 AM

5) I love that our current system can support poorly placed cities. This helps us to balance the game where poor starting points are concerned. HOWEVER, I still notice that cities in bad spots don't show as much potential as those that have better placement. In this mod, in particular, the problem with AND and this issue has been tackled by actually going in the opposite direction. Rather than pulling back on the benefits certain resources, Hydro has masterfully expressed that by giving us special buildings based on particular resources, we can pull the game back into a balance (albeit an excessive one that appeals to a more is better style of thought (I like this thinking)).

Additionally, where gold is concerned, I'm working with Hydro to tweak the buildings so that we have a more even balance of gold income throughout all eras. Abandoning an overreliance on increasing maintenance costs that really impact most during the mid-modern eras of the game, making corporations and guilds less than beneficial, and moving more towards outright gold costs to maintain particular buildings should help to balance this out. This is something I understand Hydro is working on now. I'm sure we'll continue the tweaking process until this matter is fully resolved.

Indeed this issue seems to be hard to solve. People like Czacki say there is too much gold while others like strategyonly say that things cost too much gold and thus you never want to build the building with negative gold. Same goes for the health buildings vs the unhealthy buildings.

At the moment its very hard to balance anything since there are still a ton of buildings that need to be added, adjusted and sometimes even redone. What I would like to get is a system where there are a lot of base buildings that give you your food, production, gold and health. Then the higher tier buildings have some negative and some positive traits but give you things the lower buildings cannot. Such as promotions, units, and unlocking other buildings.

I think this may need its own topic soon since its an issue that will take a long time to figure out how to balance.

2. A quick solution to fix this without troubling you with too much analytic work over the building bonuses would be to unlink some buildings, so that i.e. grocer no longer upgrades to (and gets obsoleted by) supermarket. That would put the whole upgrade issues to an okay state without much work.

Well things have been a bit lopsided at the moment since I have been working my way up through the eras trying to fill things in. Some of the major problems are at City Planning where all your huts disappear. I have yet to fill in the rest of the residential buildings and thus it is imbalanced at the moment. Another imbalanced part is at guilds where bunch of buildings go away. I have not yet figured out how to fix this since I do not want to mess up the whole guilds system. Lastly there are all the farm buildings that go away with the Farmscrapers. This is just me not getting to the later eras yet. There will be tons of balancing and addting due to the Space stuff and while I am there I am sure I will go and tweak some of the other techs and buildings too to respond to the more filled out lower eras.

pablowest

Apr 02, 2011, 05:28 AM

Thanks for sharing this game. I really like caveman. :D

JosEPh_II

Apr 02, 2011, 09:56 AM

To address some of Czacki's concerns;

Aforress went through the same process with AND. And it came about because Deity level players wanted more. So he started to go in that direction. But what happened was that avg players were soon getting squeezed out and told to go play lower levels if they couldn't handle the game. This took a Ton of the Fun out of AND. Aforress tried to right the ship with 1.75c. But it became apparent that if you cater to the elite you lose the masses.

Now both C2C and AND have many Options to increase the Mods difficulty levels. You want a harder game add in the Revolutions, Raging Barbs, and etc, etc., options to get a harder game. You want a little less check the No Rev box, etc., at game start up.

In time the AI inefficiencies will get addressed because even the Noble level player will comment on it. But this Mod is Far from a Finished product. Let Strategy, Hydro, TB, DH, and Civ Feuher have sometime to work thru this Monster project. It will get there if the modders don't get "burnt" or burned out. It's already happened to RoM, Zappara got burnt and burned out, and to a lesser degree so did Aforress with AND.

JosEPh

szyszon

Apr 02, 2011, 10:39 AM

Hydromancerx

Apr 02, 2011, 01:33 PM

In time the AI inefficiencies will get addressed because even the Noble level player will comment on it. But this Mod is Far from a Finished product. Let Strategy, Hydro, TB, DH, and Civ Feuher have sometime to work thru this Monster project. It will get there if the modders don't get "burnt" or burned out. It's already happened to RoM, Zappara got burnt and burned out, and to a lesser degree so did Aforress with AND.

What I am hopping is even when people in the project get "out of the groove" and "loose their mojo" that others will still have the modding spirit and keep it going. I have had a few times where I ave just not been in the mood for C2C and I do something else and then come back fresh with new idea. Nothing is wrong with this, in fact its good to have some away time. In short between all the contributors and fans posting ideas I think we can keep this project alive. And really everything I think we have finished the needed part to the mod there are 3 more cool ideas that pop up that are just too good not to do. We could literally keep doing this for years if we were motivated to. I think as long as it stays fun to mod and play that there will be someone working on it.

Vaya

Apr 02, 2011, 01:44 PM

I have the same problem as others with Industrialism tech. The crash happens when You try enter city screen (not all of them but most) after researching Ind so that's why game can crash after switching turns, if i set queues in every city the crash delays.

I tried number of things like giving all AI this tech, deleting all bauxite ore and prime timber resources but nothing seems to help. The moment i discover Ind - game over.
I don't know what else i could do in game...

I'm using CvC v9 clean install, no other mods on Civ4Gold. Exact version:
Caveman2Cosmosv9.7z 830467093b downloaded on 02mar11

This is last good save game
hope someone can help solving this

Same problem(as I previously mentioned here but was deleted...). I tried a lot of things but nothing helped. I had previous version, tried to delete pretty much everything on map, tried giving techs in world editor, tried removing buildings, workaround, new game..
So I uninstalled C2C, deleted BTS folder in Documents\My Games, installed new version, run a new game and as soon as I research Industrialism and game is about to put me in the city screen it freezes and I can do nothing about it... I just hope that somebody will figure this out. I will try load that save under 32bit Win XP instead of x64 W7 but that will hardly help as well. Maybe we have different version of Rise of Mankind or I don't know..

Here is my last working save..:

Thunderbrd

Apr 02, 2011, 03:20 PM

The problem with Industrialism is documented and is something I'm about to reach in my game so I should, at that point (since I have a rather unique file set with this one) be able to tackle the problem (I hope...).

strategyonly

Apr 02, 2011, 10:50 PM

If you want extra LONG movies, Praetyr has put together them for anyone that wants them in 1st post.

Just override to install.

Also if you have been getting some CTD's try this new change out also, it does help.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10350819&postcount=1596

Czacki

Apr 03, 2011, 03:51 AM

Btw, I'm by all means NOT a Deity-level player. Actually, I prefer lower difficulty and getting a peaceful, powerful empire. However, RoM:AND was significantly easier than vanilla BTS, mainly because of poor AI and very noob-friendly cities (it is EXTREMELY hard NOT to go to 90% science with a positive gold per turn...). To a point where it simply wasn't challenging at all, which is not good at all for anyone, good or bad player alike.

However, I'm very certain that fixing those 6 points (well, mostly withdrawal and AI that struggles in war and development) and making the cities a BIT more costly would turn things back to normal. I'm happy to see you're tweaking the mod. C2C, if finished, will most likely be THE best Civilization experience of ALL time. I hope that when I get back in next 2-3 months, the major issues will be dealt with and I will be able to play this a lot ^^

Regarding AI, I think that it tries a bit of everything and fails at it. Perhaps there is a way to specialize AI more? Some leaders could go for religions as priority, some would try to make great commanders (and protect them at all costs) while massing huge amounts of troops, some would fortify and go for space race. That could be determined by their traits rather then their BTS AI to make support for custom leaders. For example, a Spiritual leader would be likely to prioritize religion and an aggresive one would be likely to mass troops. Charismatic would try to make great commanders+experienced units prioritizing certain promotions like flanking, and so on.

Future tech wars should definitively be re-balanced, especially units. Lots of RoM future units overlap in their roles or get obsolete extremely fast. Some units should definitively get better upgrade lines (Plasma Tank -> Dreadnought Armor, for instance). I also suggest to make a progression for artillery units beyond NLOS cannon.

Oh, and one personal requests. Most models added in RoM are really beautiful. However, Orbital fighter/bomber look really unattractive, just a blury brown mass (that's hardly distinguishable). Is there any chance to improve those models or replace them? Compared to beautiful F-22 raptor model, or Dreadnought armor, they just look so... uninteresting.

Finally, all ships upgrading to "fusion ships" seems a bit stretched. There's virtually no difference between fusion cruiser and fusion battleship, other than str. perhaps there should only be one fusion ship (being an upgrade for all surface warships of modern time) instead of ligher, medium and stronger fusion ship? (which is redundant). Instead, we could get a "hi-end" ship for space age as upgrade.

Cheers friends.

Aden

Apr 03, 2011, 05:51 AM

Hi, first to say that I love this mod :goodjob:

But the game shutdown in 9737 BC, and i don't know why, I tried changing tech research and actions but still the game go off ?

Any explanation or fix to do ? :confused:

I attached two save game

I'm playing with the C2C Beta 10.1 - revolution mod off

strategyonly

Apr 03, 2011, 06:58 AM

Aden

Apr 03, 2011, 07:39 AM

strategyonly

Apr 03, 2011, 08:20 AM

Thanks a lot, :thumbsup:

I update the CIV4Gamespeedinfo.xml from the post of Thunderbrd http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10350819&postcount=1596 and it works perfect for now.

I see that in 1st post Praetyr is updating, so i will check. Sorry for my questions before i did not understand what "long movies" stood for.:crazyeye:

Yeah, just incase anyone is wondering, i have mainly just a static movies (usually under 50kb), cause its less memory taken when playing, but if you put in the actual movies, which some people like, they are like between 100kb and 8000kb times bigger, depending on the movie(s).

Dancing Hoskuld

Apr 04, 2011, 01:56 PM

I think the comments in AND here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10367794&postcount=511) about the Pyramids in particular are a great idea for C2C

Hydromancerx

Apr 04, 2011, 03:01 PM

I think the comments in AND here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10367794&postcount=511) about the Pyramids in particular are a great idea for C2C

Hmm. Some good points. The graveyards make more sense but it would be nice for some sort of wonder to give irrigation canals in every city.

You know what might be better? I think it was you Dancing Hoskuld who was complaining that you could not recreate Egypt because of the flood plains giving the huge :yuck: What if the Pyramids gave no :yuck: in that city? That would sort of simulate the Nile if you build the Pyramids on a flood plain.

On a side topic but related I was thinking maybe we should have some bonus if you obtain specific wonders such as ...

Great Pyramids + Sphinx (in the same city) = ?

7 Wonders of the Ancient World
- Great Pyramids
- Hanging Gardens
- Statue of Zeus (Must have Hellenism)
- Colossus of Rhodes
- Temple of Artemis (Do we have this?)
- Mausoleum of Halicarnassus (Do we have this?)

Not sure what getting all of these would give you. Maybe it could trigger a quest reward.

Dancing Hoskuld

Apr 04, 2011, 03:14 PM

Hmm. Some good points. The graveyards make more sense but it would be nice for some sort of wonder to give irrigation canals in every city.

You know what might be better? I think it was you Dancing Hoskuld who was complaining that you could not recreate Egypt because of the flood plains giving the huge :yuck: What if the Pyramids gave no :yuck: in that city? That would sort of simulate the Nile if you build the Pyramids on a flood plain.

On a side topic but related I was thinking maybe we should have some bonus if you obtain specific wonders such as ...

Great Pyramids + Sphinx (in the same city) = ?

7 Wonders of the Ancient World
- Great Pyramids
- Hanging Gardens
- Statue of Zeus (Must have Hellenism)
- Colossus of Rhodes
- Temple of Artemis (Do we have this?)
- Mausoleum of Halicarnassus (Do we have this?)

Not sure what getting all of these would give you. Maybe it could trigger a quest reward.

- Temple of Artemis (Do we have this?) - polytheseum tech
- Mausoleum of Halicarnassus (Do we have this?) - calendar tech

But then what about Babylon, Sumer, and the Harrapan/Indus civs just to name a few large civs built on flood plains?

angelitocarc

Apr 04, 2011, 06:42 PM

please help me! when i download the mod, says me the downloa has expired, and i really want to play this mod
any help? :confused:

strategyonly

Apr 04, 2011, 11:35 PM

please help me! when i download the mod, says me the download has expired, and i really want to play this mod
any help? :confused:

Works fine for me?

Snofru1

Apr 05, 2011, 03:05 AM

I am playing the Beta 10 (not 10.1) so maybe this has been changed already:

As soon as I discover Thermodynamics I can build the Solar Mirror Array Power Plant (when I have Power Lines). That seems to be way too early for me (some time as coal plants)...

Zilcho

Apr 05, 2011, 07:25 AM

I love the new auto path options. Patrol territory, escort, etc.. But I'm wondering which component it is that adds these?

strategyonly

Apr 05, 2011, 07:54 AM

I love the new auto path options. Patrol territory, escort, etc.. But I'm wondering which component it is that adds these?

Yeah they have almost always been there, there are like 100 options in the upper left hand corner, the one that looks like a "Lady Bug" (i just kept forgetting to take my options out before, sorry everyone:blush:).

But anyways click on that and change your options to your hearts content, i do.:)

Just go through each one listed on the top and start having fun.:D

the-f

Apr 05, 2011, 09:56 AM

strategyonly

Apr 05, 2011, 01:01 PM

EldrinFal

Apr 05, 2011, 05:53 PM

with the new version i get CTD after about the first 20-30 turns.

the strange thing is that the top left and top right writing starts to flicker
(marked in the screenshot).

any idea where the problem could be ?

the UPDATE to 10.1 was applied.

(for the save the modfolder have to be "c2c")

First: Great mod guys! I quite enjoy the TONS of additional content and appreciate the hard work and time you've all put in.

On to the issue:

I get the same thing actually. This is the second revision of the C2C mod I've played, the first being v9, and that one didn't give me the flickering. I do think this newest version is more stable by far, but that flickering thing is new. It did not start as early for me as it did for The-F. I've gone up to the Classical Age on Epic so that's quite a number of turns.

Some things I've noticed with it that might help track the issue:

1) The flickering for me is just the current Era shown on the top left. However, there is missing information as well. All to the left of the Era, as well as all the info at the top right is gone when the flickering occurs. Additionally, if I go into a City View, I'm missing the entire interface except for the build choices at the bottom.

2) If I try to Save during a flicker turn, I crash. Actually I just tried that once to be honest.

3) I AM able to go to the next turn. And it usually clears up and returns to normal. But a few turns later it will happen again. I can save as normal when it isn't flickering. I've included my save game, but it may take a turn or two to occur.

4) My folder name is the standard "Caveman2Cosmos"

Running Windows 7 x64 w/6 GB RAM, Radeon 4870 1 GB video card

EldrinFal

Apr 05, 2011, 06:46 PM

Just confirmed that not only does it crash when trying to save during a flicker, but it crashes when I click the Save Game button in the menu (before even getting to the file screen).

Necratoid

Apr 05, 2011, 08:00 PM

Thunderbrd

Apr 05, 2011, 10:38 PM

To those having trouble with 'flashy' try this! (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10350819&postcount=1596)

It's not a perfect file, by any means, and Praetyre and I are trying to work out a better version but this should work to help fix your issue. And if anyone using it has trouble with a golden age length not playing out in full, let me know.

By the way: I'd like to ask everyone playing this mod to give some feedback on the turn counts it takes them to reach shifts in 'ages'. This could really help us to narrow in on an accurate timeline for the gamespeed info file.

IRT the fort problem... that's very interesting. Now, I would say, never automate your workers (I've never liked doing so myself... they just can't think as well imo.) BUT the problem here isn't really just automation - apparently even the AI is doing this which is another problem the AI has (it has many right now.) Initially, all I can say about this is to take a look at the xml values assigned to the fort improvement - probably way too high. But it could also be a code issue in which case it could take me a while to fix it. But I'll take a look into where that portion of the code might be found and see if I can detect the problem there. (Thanks for pointing it out!)

Your second point about culture building is something we're working on now. And what's going on with the Zulu example may have something to do with an influence driven war option interacting with the fixed borders. Repairing issues with fixed borders would probably be beyond my ability right now... sorry. Still, its a good 'fix-it' bulletpoint to add to my longterm list.

the-f

Apr 06, 2011, 05:32 AM

To those having trouble with 'flashy' try this! (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10350819&postcount=1596)

still problems, fresh new unpack of the release and this fix.

another pic with strange stings happening in the top.

what i noticed was that in the release "Caveman2CosmosBETA10.1.7z" the "UserSettings" folder is empty.

i run the game with 1920x1080 WinXP 32 and /3GB boot, HD4890

EldrinFal

Apr 06, 2011, 01:04 PM

still problems, fresh new unpack of the release and this fix.

another pic with strange stings happening in the top.

what i noticed was that in the release "Caveman2CosmosBETA10.1.7z" the "UserSettings" folder is empty.

i run the game with 1920x1080 WinXP 32 and /3GB boot, HD4890

I don't have those strange symbols in mine, unless you mean they showed up only after you implemented that new file. I will give that a shot when I get home today.

When I was playing yesterday, I noticed also that it seems the text is missing during the flashy turn. The graphic icons are still up, but the research turn and topic is missing, and basically the rest of the white text stuff.

And in City View, it still shows the Info box for the other nations located at the bottom right of the main screen (ranking, state religion, diplomatic status, etc.)

On a separate note: Should those water "goody huts" spawn angry villagers in the middle of the water?

EldrinFal

Apr 06, 2011, 01:09 PM

JosEPh_II

Apr 06, 2011, 06:18 PM

<snip>
On a separate note: Should those water "goody huts" spawn angry villagers in the middle of the water?

That's a designed feature, they do go to shore the next turn.

Have not had any graphics glitches.

As for using the "Fixed Borders" option I never do and don't have the strange Worker behavior Necratoid posted about. Some of the Options take some getting used to. And some are not for everyone. I personally Never play with Revolutions on either.

JosEPh

Hydromancerx

Apr 06, 2011, 08:00 PM

Pyramids + Sphinx = Valley of the Kings. a bonus cumulative Wonder than adds not only the bonuses the replaced, but to science and cash. Accurate to Ancient Egypt that is.

Good idea! I think i will make that wonder next time i update.

Dancing Hoskuld

Apr 06, 2011, 08:18 PM

EldrinFal, I had that issue a few versions back... kicked in during the medevil age when invention was being researched or could be. You can fight, but can't get odds or see who you are fighting unless you directly select that unit. The unit your on is displayed properly. I think I fixed it by installed the unoffical patch and then nuking C2C and reinstalling.

--

While I mostly enjoy the mod I have a few issues. First, I've had many of the bugs (though not black terrain) at one point or another. Current bane of my game play is 2 minute turn processing. Often in the Ancient or Classical Age.

1) The main issue I think is workers. The most common unit. Disturbed members of a fanatical religion that nukes economic growth at random. This plague of a religion is fort building. I think each worker checks every square it can, for places to build forts before anything else. I've have dozen of workers run across the map for 20 turns to build forts directly adjacent to cities I controlled... then build a road under it. They colonize the artic fanatically, via forts, the second they get a chance. Then build forts diagonally from forts and then build forts in the new squares that open. I mean I expand one turn and they swarm as soon as they get a free turn. then vuild road to it... but trampling across the artic on rough terrain is the perfered method.

Two versions back I had a case where a mountain with obsidian was covered by culture, between two cities but not in the 3 work zones of either. After a while they had 35 odd workers building and rebuilding the same fort, ever 3 turns away, for hundreds of turns. The second I automated them they ran back to the mountain. Letting a few clear the que of the build fort command an replacing it with a shaft mine... build the improvements they'd been neglecting. The second I reautomated them they went back to the endless fort of doom.

To me, this means the single most important thing for the workers is fort building. I think the slow down it in large part related to this. Check the code for how workers deside to build forts and then find the other instances where they check all squares to build more forts.

2) A major improvement to the AI would be as follows: Ban fixed borders countries from building culture. Fixed borders countries spam Town Building Units (TBUs) and they spend the next 50-100 turn doing nothing, but (lesser) culture building. So the main city is perpetually at 4 pop and the rest at 1 pop. It doesn't help they then take up slavery... and sacrifice any more population. Often dropping the main city down to 1 pop as well. I'd say ban them from making TBUs in the first place, but that is likely a spot of game play over logic.

2.5) The Zulu lose a town... 500+ turns later they take it back and their historical fixed borders are back to max... even on squares they have no culture left on. I've taken to burning said slave ridden, cesspools on principle. This needs fixing.

--

Pyramids + Sphinx = Valley of the Kings. a bonus cumulative Wonder than adds not only the bonuses the replaced, but to science and cash. Accurate to Ancient Egypt that is.

Have you tried using the option "Automated workers don't replace old improvements". This is the only fix I know of for the constant build mine, build cottage loop also. I believe this may have been addressed in a newer worker AI, part of Better AI, which is included in the base used by C2C. We hope to get a new base with the latest versions late May or early June, if I remember correctly.

Any resource outside the work area of all cities will get a fort. This is default BtS strategy. In RoM, AND and C2C forts will be built on desert and tundra tiles inside city work areas because this is the only improvement available which improves those tiles.

On a separate note: Should those water "goody huts" spawn angry villagers in the middle of the water?

Yes it is a "design" feature. :) I am working on changing it since the originator of the code has updated it to convert those barbarians into triremes. Not a good thing in C2C since they are much to strong for the Prehistoric Era. I have added the code but it is not firing yet. It will now provide canoes or war canoes in the Prehistoric era. War galleys or triremes in the Ancient era, Caravals and so on for later eras. As to the friendly stuff, I am debating on testing for transport ships with spare capacity rather than just sending the hapless unit to the nearest land to be swamped by barbarians.

Necratoid, I was reading about the unofficial patch and it mentions that if the mod you're using has its own DLL, then the patch stuff has to be integrated into it. I guess this question would be more for the C2C team, but does C2C support the unofficial patch?

We get the Unofficial Patch from the base we build on. No idea if the base has the latest version or not.

EldrinFal

Apr 07, 2011, 10:39 AM

c.fe

Apr 07, 2011, 03:24 PM

I just want to note that I can't start a game of this mod, i.e. I can start the mod, can read the civiliopedia, can change settings under "play now" or "custom game" but as soon as I "really" launch the game it crashes with a runtime error.

I extracted the mod to [bts]\mods, I copied the gamespeed-xml to assets\xml\gameinfo, I tried different mapscripts, different leaders, different gamespeeds but it still crashes very consistently. The mod folder "Caveman2Cosmos" seems to have the right size (tiny bit over 2 GB). Other mods seem to work alright.

I've no clue what's going on...

Dancing Hoskuld

Apr 07, 2011, 03:53 PM

c.fe

Apr 07, 2011, 05:58 PM

Do you have a mod folder called "Rise of Mankind" or "Rise of Mankind - A New Dawn" if so rename them to something else and try again. I am not sure why it causes problems but it does.

Thanks, I indeed had the "New Dawn" folder but renaming that one didn't help.

Argroww

Apr 07, 2011, 06:11 PM

Hehehe....just started researching Rifling only to discover that it unlocks the Lara Croft unit :-D

Roamty

Apr 07, 2011, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by c.fe
I just want to note that I can't start a game of this mod, i.e. I can start the mod, can read the civiliopedia, can change settings under "play now" or "custom game" but as soon as I "really" launch the game it crashes with a runtime error.

No need for renaming any mods

Here is the fix for runtime error:

Go into the Assets file and move the Israel.FPK file out of the mod.

Then replace with this Israel.FPK file place it in the Assets folder

http://www.atomicgamer.com/files/91181/israel-fpk

Roamty

Apr 07, 2011, 06:14 PM

Clean this up

DoubleRD77

Apr 07, 2011, 08:36 PM

Someone please help. Are the bugs all out of the new mod now? Is the industrialism fixed now? I am afraid to download this mod until it is pretty close to fixed. Please help ;(

Thunderbrd

Apr 07, 2011, 09:12 PM

@c.fe: It sounds like you either have a corrupt download or you may have placed the file fix for the gamespeed in wrong. It should have included a new gameinfo.xml as well. It's really hard to diagnose these things when I can't get on your computer ;)

@Roamty: Exactly what are you asking here?

@DoubleRD77: The industrialism bug is apparently not being experienced by everyone. I haven't reached it yet in our game but it is around the corner. I've got a modding weekend coming up here so I may be able to address it then. I'll primarily be working on improving the ai though, as the way its behaving right now is as bad as any of the 'bugs' we have.

Dancing Hoskuld

Apr 07, 2011, 09:22 PM

Someone please help. Are the bugs all out of the new mod now? Is the industrialism fixed now? I am afraid to download this mod until it is pretty close to fixed. Please help ;(

On single player on huge world, snail after 18hrs of play I was no where near getting Industralism. Then I did some modding which was not save game safe and had to start from scratch. :) It is stable up to there and as Thunderbrd says the AI needs work to help it keep up.

strategyonly

Apr 07, 2011, 10:03 PM

Someone please help. Are the bugs all out of the new mod now? Is the industrialism fixed now? I am afraid to download this mod until it is pretty close to fixed. Please help ;(

@c.fe: It sounds like you either have a corrupt download or you may have placed the file fix for the gamespeed in wrong. It should have included a new gameinfo.xml as well. It's really hard to diagnose these things when I can't get on your computer ;)

@Roamty: Exactly what are you asking here?

@DoubleRD77: The industrialism bug is apparently not being experienced by everyone. I haven't reached it yet in our game but it is around the corner. I've got a modding weekend coming up here so I may be able to address it then. I'll primarily be working on improving the ai though, as the way its behaving right now is as bad as any of the 'bugs' we have.

On single player on huge world, snail after 18hrs of play I was no where near getting Industralism. Then I did some modding which was not save game safe and had to start from scratch. :) It is stable up to there and as Thunderbrd says the AI needs work to help it keep up.

Recently i have gotten pas the Tech Industrialism more than three times now, and still have not had any errors or big turn time delays?

There is more of a delay in Mid-Classical thru Medieval, then it tappers off alittle, then back to under 2 minutes on Epic speed.

the-f

Apr 08, 2011, 12:46 AM

Dancing Hoskuld

Apr 08, 2011, 01:28 AM

the games where i had problems where on "marathon extra slow"

now i'm playing on "snail" and have no problem.

i had an event where i got -2:mad: and when i remember correct it says in the event text that it will stay for ~10 turns, but it says for ~120 turns (haven't looked at the beginning of the event)

Yes, the number of turns scale for game speed but the text doesn't.:(

c.fe

Apr 08, 2011, 09:15 AM

@c.fe: It sounds like you either have a corrupt download or you may have placed the file fix for the gamespeed in wrong. It should have included a new gameinfo.xml as well. It's really hard to diagnose these things when I can't get on your computer ;)
[...]

Well, I can try to download the mod again but in my experience corrupt archives can't even by unpacked completely most of the time.

The Zip-file "CIV4GameSpeedInfo.zip" from here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10350819&postcount=1596) contains (only) two files:
"CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml" and "Archive created by free jZip.url". So I indeed miss this "gameinfo.xml".

DoubleRD77

Apr 08, 2011, 09:16 AM

I currently have version 004 of next war advanced. Could you post a list of all the versions that are complete. I do not want to get the newest version for a little bit, because I am not computer savvy. But I would like to download a version 005 or 006 if they exist and are ironed out. If you could do that and provide a link, that would be great :)

strategyonly

Apr 08, 2011, 09:20 AM

Vaya

Apr 08, 2011, 11:46 AM

Hi, regarding that industrialism problem..: I found not ideal but simple and working solution. At the beginning of the new game I run worldeditor and just set Industrialism as already researched tech for my empire. I haven't experienced any problems with this thereafter. I don't need to give it AI nations as well, they don't seem to affect my CTDs.

Of course this method has certain disadvantages for example obsolete ivory, prime timber, not being able to build guild hall or possibility to research plastics but these are still just mirror issues compared to not being able to progress further after Industrialism in other case.. I also try not to look on map/minimap beyond my city as knowing the map in early stage could ruin my game experience..

Well I hope this helps somebody..

Btw I don't understand how can you play this mod on larger maps, I have i5-750, 4Gb DDR 1600, GTX 460 and quite fast HDD and I don't dare to play on anything larger than standard map(small at the moment). I also play with <15 nations and raging barbarians turned off as this slows game even more and turn processing takes minutes since middle ages/renaissance/industrial revolution(differs from game to game)..

I did also some digging in xmls and fpks thinking to remove by error and trial corrupt element from Industrialism tech but I'm not a modder and as I found out it's not that easy and everything is connected with many other files here so It will need to by done by somebody more experienced :(

JosEPh_II

Apr 08, 2011, 04:45 PM

Thanks, I indeed had the "New Dawn" folder but renaming that one didn't help.

I also found out that Re Naming Rise of Mankind or A New Dawn didn't work either. I had to cut /paste the respective folders to some place outside of the Civ IV/Bts/Mods path. I have a folder for RoM and AND in My Documents that have several versions of each so that was the logical place for me. After that I didn't have this problem any more.

JosEPh

strategyonly

Apr 08, 2011, 05:39 PM

Roamty

Apr 08, 2011, 05:56 PM

c.fe

Apr 08, 2011, 07:27 PM

I also found out that Re Naming Rise of Mankind or A New Dawn didn't work either. I had to cut /paste the respective folders to some place outside of the Civ IV/Bts/Mods path. I have a folder for RoM and AND in My Documents that have several versions of each so that was the logical place for me. After that I didn't have this problem any more.

JosEPh

Originally Posted by c.fe
I just want to note that I can't start a game of this mod, i.e. I can start the mod, can read the civiliopedia, can change settings under "play now" or "custom game" but as soon as I "really" launch the game it crashes with a runtime error.

No need for renaming any mods

Here is the fix for runtime error:

Go into the Assets file and move the Israel.FPK file out of the mod.

Then replace with this Israel.FPK file place it in the Assets folder

http://www.atomicgamer.com/files/91181/israel-fpk

Thanks for your help, but both ideas didn't help.

Roamty

Apr 08, 2011, 08:31 PM

Thanks for your help, but both ideas didn't help.

No need for renaming any mods

Here is the fix for runtime error:

Go into the Assets file and move the Israel.FPK file out of the mod.

Then replace with this Israel.FPK file place it in the {Assets folder} that does not work

Ok try this to is see if it will load for You. Go into the Assets file and move the Israel.FPK file out of the mod. The one I changed, Unpak it then copy all to

C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Caveman2Cosmos\Assets\Modules\Custom_Ci vilizations\Israel

soltari666

Apr 09, 2011, 02:17 AM

hello everyone,
i have checked out azzers solution via regedit. the problem is there are no explanatory screenshots in his thread anymore ( too old / removed by user? ). i am very apprehensive to meddle with my registry so if somebody has any updated version of these files please post them here again. for a link i would be most grateful.
:)

strategyonly

Apr 09, 2011, 04:21 AM

angelitocarc

Apr 09, 2011, 01:26 PM

any help? every time i start playing this thing appears
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/104/errorzl.png

Thunderbrd

Apr 10, 2011, 12:02 PM

Aceptar? What language are you running the game in? I believe this mod is ONLY english compatible. Could that be the problem? I don't think any of us have ever seen this particular problem before. If you were a modder, I'd ask you to use the debugger dll to see if there was anything you could figure out about where the program is having trouble. Runtime errors are often caused in the dll but in your case, we've all been playing the mod without this problem so I can't undersand what could be causing it to go buggy on you alone... Again... perhaps the language setting might be causing trouble.

Thunderbrd

Apr 10, 2011, 09:27 PM

strategyonly

Apr 10, 2011, 10:39 PM

Ok, thought about it more, and realized it COULD be an incompatible dll? I'm not sure, but try this:

DLL UPDATE
This is a more in-depth adjustment of the ai build priorities. Finally, no more culture building out the gate, no more cities getting stuck building nothing, just a whole lot of lethal. Civs should be a bit harder to keep up with now.

Implementing: You can place all four of these in your assets file if you like. You'll need to rename the one that applies to your current build (this is savegame compatible provided you are using either straight v9 or earlier or v10 or later.) When you rename the appropriate file, just remove the '.' and everything after it AFTER .dll (don't use the debugger files unless you want a very slooooow game where you need to hope out of the game every so often to close out an error window)

In otherwords, most of you will take cvgamecore.dll.v10 and rename it to cvgamecore.dll

This means you should probably first go in and rename the cvgamecore.dll that's already IN the assets folder to 'cvgamecore.dll.backup' or somesuch.

Any confusion here?

Anyhow, here's the download! (http://www.mediafire.com/?dw2ixqx9x78y4cb)

OK i have Beta 10.1 and the NEW dll, crashes the game right away:crazyeye: as soon as it is supposed to start, poof CTD.

EDIT: OK i tried v10 and it CTD as i mentioned above, in my Beta10.1.
But then i tried v9 and it worked?:crazyeye: Then i tried a NEW game and this one CTD, also?

EDIT EDIT: OK this is weird:crazyeye:, so i went through both again, v10 definitely CTD's, but this time v9 started even when i tried a NEW game:confused:

angelitocarc

Apr 10, 2011, 10:45 PM

sorry, i live in argentina, before i run a mod i put the game in english and thanks for the dll im gonna try

Thunderbrd

Apr 10, 2011, 11:16 PM

OK i have Beta 10.1 and the NEW dll, crashes the game right away:crazyeye: as soon as it is supposed to start, poof CTD.

EDIT: OK i tried v10 and it CTD as i mentioned above, in my Beta10.1.
But then i tried v9 and it worked?:crazyeye: Then i tried a NEW game and this one CTD, also?

EDIT EDIT: OK this is weird:crazyeye:, so i went through both again, v10 definitely CTD's, but this time v9 started even when i tried a NEW game:confused:

Ok, then you haven't used the NO_ASTROPEDIA option in v10... I was under the impression you had.

This then means that v9 applies to everyone.

strategyonly

Apr 11, 2011, 12:02 AM

Ok, then you haven't used the NO_ASTROPEDIA option in v10... I was under the impression you had.

This then means that v9 applies to everyone.

Your correct, i haven't gotten the OK to use NO_ASTROPEDIA from Civ_F yet?

If i put in his changes, which i dont remember at this point i have yet, will v10, then work?

Also, the AI is thinking the way it used to, its built four cities to my one, and the AI is also ALL over the place again, like it used to be, YEAH:goodjob: and its 10 techs ahead of me again:(:p

No more lagging around, must keep up my guard now, thank goodness.;)

Thunderbrd

Apr 11, 2011, 10:24 AM

Yeah, it'll be a different game from here on. Soon as I implemented it in my own game, the first thing most ai cities did was build mathematics, libraries, universities, stargazers huts etc in all its cities - this is going to make a very big difference!

And to answer your question, yes, v10 is identical to v9 with the one exception that v10 comes with the NO_ASTROPEDIA option and expects that option to be in the xml gameoption file (thus the crash on loading) as well as makes the whole thing not save compatable.

Looks like I'll be continuing to work on developing the ai builds a bit though, since Hydro pointed out the AI still won't build National Wonders. I suppose they'd be a bit tricky from a programming point of view. I'll have to look more closely at the way the programming is written regarding the Wonder matters.

c.fe

Apr 11, 2011, 12:24 PM

I just wanted to mention that my problem (ctd during initialization/map generation) disappeared as soon as I turned the 3GB switch on. So it probably was just some (very early) memory problem.

marcgarc

Apr 11, 2011, 01:58 PM

I just wanted to mention that my problem (ctd during initialization/map generation) disappeared as soon as I turned the 3GB switch on. So it probably was just some (very early) memory problem.

Just downloaded version 10.1 BETA and installed it; whenever I try to start a Custom Game or Custom Scenario, I get CTD when initializing graphics, with a MAF error message displayed sometimes (other it simply CTD). If a try a pre-made scenario, it loads with no problem at all.

I'm running this on a Phenom II X4 955, 4 GB RAM, GeForce 260 GTX with up to date drivers, 32-bit Win XP SP3 up-to-date, and the 3GB Switch ON.

I could run other previous versions of ROM, AND and even C2C without suffering similar problems; any ideas or clues about what could be happening?

strategyonly

Apr 11, 2011, 02:10 PM

Just downloaded version 10.1 BETA and installed it; whenever I try to start a Custom Game or Custom Scenario, I get CTD when initializing graphics, with a MAF error message displayed sometimes (other it simply CTD). If a try a pre-made scenario, it loads with no problem at all.

I'm running this on a Phenom II X4 955, 4 GB RAM, GeForce 260 GTX with up to date drivers, 32-bit Win XP SP3 up-to-date, and the 3GB Switch ON.

I could run other previous versions of ROM, AND and even C2C without suffering similar problems; any ideas or clues about what could be happening?

Go to the 1st posted thread and look for the UPDATES, they need to be in 10.1 to run effectively.

And Welcome to the-f, soltari666, angelitocarc and marcgarc to CFC.

marcgarc

Apr 11, 2011, 02:29 PM

I'm not totally newbie at C2C, have been moving around for some months, downloading and playing older versions, but I don't participate too much here, in the forum.
Trying the UPDATES you've pointed out, I'll post the results. I had got first of them, related to the XML, but was missing the second, related to DLL's.

EDIT: No luck at all, I've applied the v9 DLL from the update, and still CTD when initializing custom games. :confused:

strategyonly

Apr 11, 2011, 03:32 PM

marcgarc

Apr 11, 2011, 03:34 PM

Yes, renamed as the original DLL and no need to delete the other files in archive, because I even didn't extract them.

strategyonly

Apr 11, 2011, 03:44 PM

Yes, renamed as the original DLL and no need to delete the other files in archive, because I even didn't extract them.

No no, you need to extract ALL the dll's and just replace the one marked with v9 INPLACE OF the other dll. So in essence i am saying rename v9 and delete the CURRENT dll and place the v9 one in that place where you deleted the OLD dll, i hope you understand this?

marcgarc

Apr 11, 2011, 04:04 PM

Ok, all four DLL's extracted into
...\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Caveman2Cosmos\Assets

The new DLL's, just extracted from archive, are
CvGameCoreDLL.dll.v9
CvGameCoreDLL.dll.debug.v9
CvGameCoreDLL.dll.v10
CvGameCoreDLL.dll.debug.v10

Deleted the original DLL CvGameCoreDLL.dll in the folder.
Renamed CvGameCoreDLL.dll.v9 as CvGameCoreDLL.dll
The other three DLL's remain unchanged.

Are these steps OK? If they are, no result. Still CTD initializing custom games, sorry.

JosEPh_II

Apr 11, 2011, 04:32 PM

WOW!!! 12 MB of .dll! Mama mia that's a lotta dll!

;)

Since my current game is going so well for me, maybe I should use this on the Next game. :D

JosEPh

Edit: From SO's screenie I see he's still doing "baseball" portrait maps! :lol:

Thunderbrd

Apr 11, 2011, 08:40 PM

@Joe: The new dll IS savegame compatible.

@marcgarc: try the v10 then. You may have updated yourself into the NO_ASTROPEDIA option.

strategyonly

Apr 11, 2011, 09:29 PM

@Joe: The new dll IS savegame compatible.

@marcgarc: try the v10 then. You may have updated yourself into the NO_ASTROPEDIA option.

I dont see how he could have, since Civ_F hasn't released it anyone yet, as far as i know, i might be wrong?

If your crashing right away only thing i can think of is you renamed the mod, put it in the wrong folder (should be mods folder under BtS) or put it in the My Documents area, which are both a no no.

marcgarc

Apr 12, 2011, 12:25 AM

Ok, all four DLL's extracted into
...\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Caveman2Cosmos\Assets

All folder and naming stuff seems OK to me.

The \Firaxis Games\... hangs at C:\Program Files, so no My Documents involvement here either.

strategyonly

Apr 12, 2011, 01:37 AM

All folder and naming stuff seems OK to me.

The \Firaxis Games\... hangs at C:\Program Files, so no My Documents involvement here either.

Only other thing is you got a bad download then, re-download, and see if that helps.

Abatzaros

Apr 12, 2011, 04:38 AM

any help? every time i start playing this thing appears
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/104/errorzl.png

I have exactly the same problem as angelitocarc, and I don't think it's the language, since I use english in Windows 7. I only play Civ 4 with mods, but I have never seen this problem before. Any suggestions?
PS: The mod looks great, thx guys for working so hard for the community!

strategyonly

Apr 12, 2011, 04:50 AM

I have exactly the same problem as angelitocarc, and I don't think it's the language, since I use english in Windows 7. I only play Civ 4 with mods, but I have never seen this problem before. Any suggestions?
PS: The mod looks great, thx guys for working so hard for the community!

Do you have a 32 bit system? If so then try the 3GB switch. How much memory, need more info, thx.

btw Welcome to CFC.

marcgarc

Apr 12, 2011, 06:35 AM

Only other thing is you got a bad download then, re-download, and see if that helps.

No way for running Custom Games or Custom Scenarios. Downloaded version 10.1 BETA again, clean Beyond the Sword and C2C installation, same CTD when initializing referred game types.

Will wait until C2C has left BETA stage and then, I'll try again. Thanks for your help!

Abatzaros

Apr 12, 2011, 06:36 AM

Do you have a 32 bit system? If so then try the 3GB switch. How much memory, need more info, thx.

btw Welcome to CFC.

Thx! My system info:
CPU: P8600 - 2 cores, 2.4 GHz, 64-bit, 3MB cache
GeForce 9600M GT - 512MB
3GB Ram

strategyonly

Apr 12, 2011, 06:57 AM

No way for running Custom Games or Custom Scenarios. Downloaded version 10.1 BETA again, clean Beyond the Sword and C2C installation, same CTD when initializing referred game types.

Will wait until C2C has left BETA stage and then, I'll try again. Thanks for your help!

I just tried doing a Custom Scenario and a Custom Game, i have had NO problems what so ever (Infact thats all i use is Custom Scenarios, i never use MapScripts.). Besides BETA really doesnt matter, really the only reason i put Beta in the title is because the Galactic Era is not even close to complete, thats it, otherwise its an Alpha game. And from the posts YOUR the only one that has this problem.:crazyeye:

Thx! My system info:
CPU: P8600 - 2 cores, 2.4 GHz, 64-bit, 3MB cache
GeForce 9600M GT - 512MB
3GB Ram

Runtime means not enough memory, usually, thats all i can think of. Right now your pushing the minimum limit on stuff.

Abatzaros

Apr 12, 2011, 07:10 AM

dima1980

Apr 12, 2011, 09:43 AM

strategyonly

Apr 12, 2011, 09:59 AM

Hi, my config - win7 x64, Core I-7 3.3Gz , 12Gb

I play giant map with 30 Ai players.
On 1500-2000 turn game was slow down, each turn I wait for 3-4 min, is this ok ?

How I can speed up the game without decreasing map size and numbers of players ?

PS. Showing all units moving disabled, - fast move and fast fight...

In answer to your question, most definitely, this mod its only recommended to play less than 17 civs and no bigger than a Large map. I think even Huge is stretching it.

Its still going to slow down, mid Classical thru Renaissance era, then pick up again but not that much, i play on Epic speed just for late game turn times, its fast (very fast) in the beginning but worth it in late games).

With the new dll that we have turn times do decrease, i am in the Renaissance era now and i am under 1 1/2 minutes per turn now.

btw Welcome to CFC

dima1980

Apr 12, 2011, 11:34 AM

Thanks.

I think correct that the game speed most depend from number of units ?

If this right, is there a possibility (and how) to increase a gold use from all military units by 1...N coins per turn ?

marcgarc

Apr 12, 2011, 02:56 PM

I just tried doing a Custom Scenario and a Custom Game, i have had NO problems what so ever (Infact thats all i use is Custom Scenarios, i never use MapScripts.). Besides BETA really doesnt matter, really the only reason i put Beta in the title is because the Galactic Era is not even close to complete, thats it, otherwise its an Alpha game. And from the posts YOUR the only one that has this problem.:crazyeye:

I solved my problems at running Custom Games; it turned out to be the switch /userva I had along with the /3GB switch; I had the /userva set to 2700 MB, which was just OK for playing ROM 2.92, but not enough for C2C, more memory demanding. Set it to 3000 MB and now C2C Custom Games initialize with no problem.

For people ignoring what is /userva about, it's a mechanism that lets you fine control over how much of the extra third GB supplied by the 3GB switch will be available for the user application (in this case, BTS - C2C)

Dionysis

Apr 12, 2011, 03:07 PM

strategyonly

Apr 12, 2011, 03:49 PM

First off, what a great mod! After trying Civ 5, I came back to Civ 4 and discovered your mod. I've been playing it ever since :)

I had one question, however. I am playing as the Germans and have reached the stage where I have the techs required to build Panzers. I also have several oil sources connected to my cities. The problem is that I need a resource called "oil products". How do I get this resource? I am also not able to produce an oil refinery for some reason - do you need this for the oil products to become available?

Thanks and keep up the great work!:goodjob:

Thank You very much for the good words, the Team really appreciates it, as i do. And welcome back to Civ4

Now back to the question:

1. A oil refinery as defined in the civlopedia is this:

<Tag>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_OIL_REFINERY_STRATEGY</Tag>
<English>Oil Refinery turns crude oil to Oil Products.</English>

2. To build a refinery you need this:

<PrereqTech>TECH_REFINING</PrereqTech>
<bPrereqPower>1</bPrereqPower>

3. See attached screenie it tells you what i mean, and thx for asking:)

Dionysis

Apr 12, 2011, 04:25 PM

Doh! I read the pedia entry for the oil refinery but totally missed the fact that it is indeed the source of oil products! And I just discovered that I need to build an Assembly plant, then a Hydro power plant and then I can build the oil refinery. I live in Alberta, Canada so oil is pretty important to me :lol:

Thank You very much for the good words, the Team really appreciates it, as i do. And welcome back to Civ4

Now back to the question:

1. A oil refinery as defined in the civlopedia is this:

<Tag>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_OIL_REFINERY_STRATEGY</Tag>
<English>Oil Refinery turns crude oil to Oil Products.</English>

2. To build a refinery you need this:

<PrereqTech>TECH_REFINING</PrereqTech>
<bPrereqPower>1</bPrereqPower>

3. See attached screenie it tells you what i mean, and thx for asking:)

JosEPh_II

Apr 12, 2011, 05:12 PM

In answer to your question, most definitely, this mod its only recommended to play less than 17 civs and no bigger than a Large map. I think even Huge is stretching it.

Its still going to slow down, mid Classical thru Renaissance era, then pick up again but not that much, i play on Epic speed just for late game turn times, its fast (very fast) in the beginning but worth it in late games).

With the new dll that we have turn times do decrease, i am in the Renaissance era now and i am under 1 1/2 minutes per turn now.

btw Welcome to CFC

Every game I've played is on a Huge map BUT.. I only use 7 to 10 AI.

I do slowdown to about 2-3 minutes after Medieval Era. But I'm in Ren Era at the moment and it's about 2 mins between turns. I currently can finish 5-7 turns an hour with all the action going on for each turn in my busy busy archipelago world. ;)

JosEPh :)

I'm running a Win XP Pro x64 with 8 GB of DDR2 Ram 1066Mhz on a Dual Core E7400 IBM chipset. And my video card is only a Radeon HD4650 with 512MB of DDR2 ram. My Gigabyte Sata Dual Bios Mobo will support a Quad core if I choose to upgrade.

CHUCK GARCIA

Apr 12, 2011, 05:21 PM

Alright, installed new patches in the mod folder. When I opened the mod it came as a regular CIV IV BTS game NOT C2C so I reverted to the last version that worked (finally got rid of the .ini errors by changing admin permissions) and played this game. When I reached the renisance era and researched clockwork and founded the religion, the game timed out and closed due to high graphic settings. Is there a way to fix this? Or can I just turn the movie off?

Hydromancerx

Apr 13, 2011, 04:56 AM

Thank You very much for the good words, the Team really appreciates it, as i do. And welcome back to Civ4

Now back to the question:

1. A oil refinery as defined in the civlopedia is this:

<Tag>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_OIL_REFINERY_STRATEGY</Tag>
<English>Oil Refinery turns crude oil to Oil Products.</English>

2. To build a refinery you need this:

<PrereqTech>TECH_REFINING</PrereqTech>
<bPrereqPower>1</bPrereqPower>

3. See attached screenie it tells you what i mean, and thx for asking:)

Wait but why's the oil refinery require river access? *points to your screenshot (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=287410&d=1302644950)* That seems wrong.

strategyonly

Apr 13, 2011, 07:27 AM

Wait but why's the oil refinery require river access? *points to your screenshot (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=287410&d=1302644950)* That seems wrong.

Never looked at it before, i guess its always been that way?

Koshling

Apr 13, 2011, 08:09 AM

See my post incorrectly placed in the suggestions/ideas thread (sorry about that). I am getting a CTD as soon as I end-turn after founding my third city. This still happens AFTER I apply both 10.1 updates (the game speed XML fix and the v9 DLL). Do I need to start from scratch (i.e. - has running without those two changes effectively corrupted the state saved in my save game so I can't now recover it)?

Thunderbrd

Apr 13, 2011, 09:18 AM

SO: to answer to the above, I think we may need a version update in total. I can't imagine what's going on there but I would really like to examine it. This is tough to do on a troubleshooting basis if we don't have harmonious file sets - which I don't think I'd be sure I'd have put together correctly to test koshling's file. I think there may be some other critical updates missing for these guys right now.

strategyonly

Apr 13, 2011, 12:35 PM

Hydromancerx

Apr 13, 2011, 04:56 PM

Never looked at it before, i guess its always been that way?

I guess. I have not tweaked that building (however I did tweak the Oil Power Plant in the electricity mod). I suggest you take that off unless you have a good reason that oil refineries should require rivers.

Dancing Hoskuld

Apr 13, 2011, 05:05 PM

I guess. I have not tweaked that building (however I did tweak the Oil Power Plant in the electricity mod). I suggest you take that off unless you have a good reason that oil refineries should require rivers.

Tradition - it is a RoM thing, and reality sort of. They should require coast for bulk transport purposes but that limits landlocked nations on pangea maps. If you build an oil pipe line first then maybe anywhere could build a refinery.

DoubleRD77

Apr 13, 2011, 05:49 PM

I downloaded version 005 for next war advanced, and extracted it to the mod folder in beyond the sword. When I load up beyond the sword, I see the option for 005 in the mods. When I click on it, the game reloads like it is going to start up, except it just reloads regular beyond the sword. Why is it doing this? Version 004 loaded up without problems. Is 005 a version that never worked?

whatsallthisnow

Apr 14, 2011, 12:39 AM

Hey all,

I have a question regarding required files. I read that it says everything needed is included in the download (except the 10.1 and the v9 files). Does it include an up-to-date RoM as well? I already have RoM installed, however it's not the latest version. (Maybe 2.65? I'm not sure). Will I need 2.92 PLUS your mod for it all to work?

Thanks!

Dancing Hoskuld

Apr 14, 2011, 01:09 AM

strategyonly

Apr 14, 2011, 05:09 AM

No. It is all included. In fact you may need to remove your version of RoM to get this to work. I still haven't figured out why this is necessary.

OK i am ONLY guessing but i believe its because of the dll, that Afforess made, whereas it doesnt look at errors like it used to, ie look at alot of his work in the XML, it looks like modules files, but in the regular XML area.

So i am again guessing that the dll is also looking everywhere it can thus every mod that looks the same, RoM/AND/C2C, so that is why i keep my mods folder with ONLY one folder, Caveman2Cosmos, cause really i dont play anything else anyways. See screenies of what i do.

Then if i ever want to play another mod, i just cut/paste my mod (C2C) in the copy folder and cut/paste the other one in the mods folder, really quite simple. and vice versa.

EDIT: Talk about weird thing, i just had a iv raze my only city i had but because of the newer dll, they came at me full speed ahead, with alot of units, thus razing my city, now to the weird part, once it was razed, i started as a whole NEW civ? wierd:crazyeye: Actually it was pretty kool, but was lagging on techs.

Also with the new dll, this is the first time i have ever had all the Great Person stats the same 20%.:)

Plus the Barbs are a plenty all circled are barbs. And thats after 400 turns.

DoubleRD77

Apr 14, 2011, 08:33 AM

You never answered my question above ;(

Thunderbrd

Apr 14, 2011, 10:52 AM

RD-I personally didn't really understand your question above... was it about this mod?

@SO: That's interesting. I didn't play with the barbarian city queues at all to the best of my knowledge (I might have attempted to free up a blockage there but that would've been all... crazy how prolific they were there.) I guess the new build priorities are going to let the AI get as aggressive as it wants to be without getting stuck somewhere along the way.

DoubleRD77

Apr 14, 2011, 01:59 PM

I uninstalled the game, now I am trying to reinstall. My cd has a scratch. I have tried tooth paste, now I smeared it with vasoline. I want version 005 to work, and I will stop at nothing to get it to work. I would appreciate some help, this is priority one above everything! This is a quest, and I will complete it! I have no game now, I want civilization back! :(

DoubleRD77

Apr 14, 2011, 06:44 PM

I tried everything to reinstall beyond the sword, but the disk is too scratched to install, though it worked fine for playing. I tried toothpaste, car wax, vasoline, steel wool, and an iron, but the disk just seemed to get scratched more. I had to fork out 2$ and buy a new beyond the sword from amazon. I am hoping when I get it, and with a fresh install, that version 005 of next war advanced will work. It will take a week to get here, so you guys have plenty of time to help me :)

strategyonly

Apr 15, 2011, 02:09 AM

UPDATED: 10.2 15 Apr 11 3:00 am,

New Coastal waves, newer dll, Newer Subdue Animals, newer buildings around 40, added more siege weapons.

New mapscript PerfectMongoose_v310, ported from Civ V. Dont know how it will act yet but give it a try.

Try playing two (2) levels above what you normally play , then choose Flexible Difficulty in the BUG options, plus if thats not enough check Raging Barbarians then its really fun.

Yay!

BTW I think there are more like 50 new buildings, not 40. Of those we have things like ...

- AI weighted buildings
- More Bonus Minerals
- More Bonus Seafood
- More Bonus Huntables
- "Valley of the Kings" bonus wonder.
- Wood Boat dependency chains (ex. Sail Weaver, Shipwright)
- Education dependency chains (ex. Printer's Workshop, Table Maker, Scroll Maker, etc)
- Random Buildings (ex. Video Game Arcade, Bicycle Shop, Quern)
- Plus much much more!

----

Now for some things I am working on ...

- Eduction Civic
- More Bonus Minerals
- More Bonus Crops
- Random Buildings (ex. Bardic Circle, Zen Archery, Gas Lamps)
- More Dwelling Buildings
- Space Buttons
- Space Buildings
- Embassy Wonders
- Music & Dance related Techs
- Canine Units (ex. Police Dog, Canis Superior)
- Skirmisher Units (ex. Skirmisher, Elite Skirmisher)
- Plus much much more!

Attached is my update.

Includes all my updates so far including the changes to the Main Interface python.
Does not include the experimental stuff since I got no feedback on if it was worth while ;).
Also you will need to redo the sound merge stuff to get the locust sounds. Although I have not seen them appear in game yet.
The fish may be too strong and I should probably turn it into a number of units.
Includes new animations from Roamty's ExoticAnimals mod, which is where the Subdue Animals mod started and/or was inspired by.

Vaya

Apr 15, 2011, 12:59 PM

Torrent has no seeders and megaupload states that "The file you are trying to access is temporarily unavailable. Please try again later."

whatsallthisnow

Apr 15, 2011, 01:16 PM

I got the old update (10.1) last night. Played it to almost the medieval age, then realize there's a World Wonder cap in place (leftover from RoM, I assume). Just to let you know, on the public works civic "hover" info display, some building or wonder names are in the TXT_ etc format, so they aren't displaying properly. Maybe that was fixed for the 10.2 update?

Also, What game setup settings do you guys recommend to play this on? I played it last night on a standard map with 7 AI (No barbarians), Rev mod on, turn length Normal. I was able to clip through the Prehistoric in little time (About one turn to research each tech) I was curious if that's just because of the low science value needed to research or maybe I just got lucky with a good map that provided resources, ya know? (basically, do you think it was fluke)

Question about one other thing, I noticed that "Cart paths" are researchable before "mud path" which is with "Wheel" Shouldn't it be the other way around? Cart to me implies it has wheels. Not a big deal, but just more of a semantics issue, haha!

Having tried it out, and I'll be getting the 10.2 update here shortly, It's an AMAZING mod! I thought RoM was a vast improvement to the vanilla game (and it was) but this takes it to a whole new level of in depth playing! :) Keep it up!

Dancing Hoskuld

Apr 15, 2011, 01:43 PM

the-f

Apr 15, 2011, 03:26 PM

rwglaub

Apr 15, 2011, 04:25 PM

Playing with new build, Mongolia, Genghis Khan, Prehistoric, slowest speed. Started with Gathering. Thought there was supposed to be no techs...

Dancing Hoskuld

Apr 15, 2011, 04:31 PM

very appreciated new version!

played some round with it:

i use the "Full_of_Resources" map script.
i have some CTD with Subdue Animals stuff, when attacking some animals i get a CTD after it.
to me it seems that the animal dont belong on the type of ground it is, eg polar bear on grass

and the 17 str Locust at ~ 50 turns i a bit hard to kill only with scouts ..

The locusts should be starting of with the weak ones first and not having the strong ones until the Renaissance.:( Remove the Locust folder from Assets/Modules/DancingHoskuld/SubdueAnimals/Xtra_Animals. this wont be save game compatible. :(

In Assets/Modules/DancingHoskuld/SubdueAnimals there is a folder called z_experemental. Delete it and see if that fixes the CTD issues as all the terrain stuff is in there. Not sure if it will be save game compatible doing this.

Playing with new build, Mongolia, Genghis Khan, Prehistoric, slowest speed. Started with Gathering. Thought there was supposed to be no techs...

You probably got a goody hut or island that gave you the tech.

Hydromancerx

Apr 15, 2011, 05:13 PM

Also, What game setup settings do you guys recommend to play this on? I played it last night on a standard map with 7 AI (No barbarians), Rev mod on, turn length Normal. I was able to clip through the Prehistoric in little time (About one turn to research each tech) I was curious if that's just because of the low science value needed to research or maybe I just got lucky with a good map that provided resources, ya know? (basically, do you think it was fluke)

Custom Games are a must when you play this mod. The settings I use are as follows ...

Map: Perfect World 2 (I like how it forms realistic biomes)
Size: Standard (My computer cannot take anything bigger or I get memory allocation errors).
Era: Prehistoric (You need to get the full effect from the beginning)
Speed: Snail (Anything faster is just too fast for this mod. I would do Eternity but its too slow for me).
New World Rules: Start in Old World (This makes it so I can found colonies later)
Pangaea Rules: (Either Choice is fine. I have yet to see an advantage to either other than more land wars on Pangaea)
Wrap Options: Cylinder (I just like this setting)
Team Rules: (I don't play on teams so it doesn't matter)

Options (Only listing the ones I check off)
- City Flipping After Conquest (I like how you can get back cities with culture)
- No Revolutions (While I loved this feature of the game, it just gave me too many errors and CTD. I would gladly unchecked this when its safer to play with on.)
- Start As Minor Civ (This is a MUST!! I love this option.)
- Multiple Production (Can help out not to waste hammers on overflow)
- Multiple Research (Not sure how this helps but I use it anyways)
- Usable Mountains (This is such an awesome mod. Not sure why its not just required.)
- Fixed Cultural Borders (Whatever. It sounds cool so I use it.)
- Surround and Destroy (I have not used it much but it sounds cool).
- Advanced Diplomacy (It makes AI interactions so much more interesting)
- Barbarian Generals (Makes them more fun to battle)
- Assimilation (This is such a cool feature. t makes my empires really feel like I have conquered other cultures. Plus getting their Unique units is spiffy as well.)
- Great Commanders (Makes battles more fun)
- Culturally Linked Starts (I am not sure if this always works out. But it sounds good in theory)
- Personalized Maps (Helps me keep track of locations on the map. Also it gives it a more personal touch).
- Advanced Economy (Not sure how it works, but it sounds cool).
- Realistic Culture Spread (I find this makes the game a bit more challenging. Which I like.)
- Larger Cities (A must have if you are going all the way to the Trans-Human Era)
- Religious Decay (A must have since there are TONS of types of religions.)
- Barbarians Always Raze (I have been trying this out. Not sure what I think of it.)
- United Nations (A must have if you pick Mastery Victory)
- Advanced Espionage (Come on its spies! Why would you not want this?)
- Guilds (Makes the most out of the Medieval Era.)
- Modern Corporations (Makes the most out of the Modern Era)
- Advanced Nukes (Shout out to Civ Fuehrer and his awesome mod!)
- Divine Prophets (I really like being able to NOT found a religion if i don't want to)

Victories (Only listing the ones I check off)
- Mastery (This is all you need since its all of them combined into one.)

BUG Menu (Non-Default Stuff I check off)
- Hide Un-Constructable Buildings (Makes it easier to see what I can build)
- Hide Un-Constructable Units (Makes it easier to see what I can build)
- Resource Depletion (This just makes it more realistic for me for resources to run out over time.)
- Terrain Damage (This makes the game much more interesting for me if i get hurt from deserts and tundra. Without it I feel like I am cheating.)
- All Diplomacy Settings (I like Trading units and having more advanced Diplomacy Options)