Consistently in the few wars that I gain the uperhand in, the opponent I am trashing on (as in 2 or 3 cities away from wiping them out) last minute always either A) Becomes the vassal of my ally (who has done nothing), or B) Vassals to a stronger Civ. Consequently, this seizes the war, and makes me at peace with the civ.

This is a problem because I would get dominated if I declared war on the vassal and master (both my neighbors). What is even more frustrating is that my enemy, despite the fact that I am destroying them refuses to capitulate to me, but gives in to another civ instead...what gives?

What do I do in these situations? Just man up and fight two enemies? Forget about ever taking over the continent?

thanks! :)

You can build up culture in the recently captured "Vassal" cites (build Libraries, Theaters, Colosseums) and culture bomb the closest city to the "Vassal" with a Great Artist if you have one. Try to flip his cities over to you.

Welcome to the Forums GomersNeverDie. :beer:

Either man up or turn Vassal States off in the option menu.

You can open a dialogue with the enemy (if he will talk to you) and make peace, then resume the war in 10 turns. In this situation he may still become a vassal of another civ.

You can open a dialogue and see if he offers to capitulate.

Or kill em faster the first time!

Yes this is a very frustrating part of the game. The only thing you can do about it is turn off vassals. But the point of a civ becoming the vassal of another is for protection, so it kinda makes sense for them to bow down to another civ.

The frustrating part is how easily weak civs j-up with other AIs, but NEVER join you. The only vassals I've ever had were capitulations when they had only 1-2 crappy cities left. Pointless.

Man up and keep rolling!!

I have seen this on occassion. But every time I have experienced it I was low in power. I was winning the war dramatically but power bar was fairly low or average. Their best move is to vassal to the strongest. So you have to be the strongest and be willing to go to war with the other top leaders in power. I rarely have them vassal to an ally.

Either man up or turn Vassal States off in the option menu.

Actually, there are other ways to avoid it besides manning up or turning the option off...

First of all, if the guy CAPITULATES to your ally, it declares peace automatically. If he merely becomes the voluntary vassal of someone who isn't at war with him, that civ will actually auto-declare on you.

Now, how to prevent each? To prevent capitulations to allies, just bribe them to peace, or never bring them in as war allies in the first place. Ripping the AI to shreds FAST and of course having a high power rating also lower the odds of this nonsense.

There are 2 ways to prevent the voluntary vassal deal. One is to have a dominating military, such that nobody wants to help the putz target because it would put them at war with someone stronger. The other method is to get people who he might vassal to more friendly with you. Civs that are your friends will not take a vassal to declare on you if they wouldn't declare on you normally.

I have found that if you are able to take out his capital city in the first couple of cities you capture...your opponent is much more likely to capitulate to you and quickly.

Also taking out his holy city if he has one. this an excellent one two punch if you take his capital and then his holy city...he will come crying shortly...check diplomacy every turn, sometimes a civ will be ready to capitulate to you...if you dont take his deal right away, someone else just might!

As others have said, being able to take out one of his cities in one turn also with a strong military force helps considerably in convincing them.

The frustrating part is how easily weak civs j-up with other AIs, but NEVER join you. The only vassals I've ever had were capitulations when they had only 1-2 crappy cities left. Pointless.

And how! Not just weak civs ever, on the higher difficulties even the strong civs vassalize to civs only slightly stronger than them. Doesn't take long until you get 'worst enemy' status just by process of elimination :)

This is a very annoying aspect of Civ. I really think that there should be a "Roundtable" type Diplomacy if the Civ that is being attacked wants peace. This way it can't just simply become the vassal of another Civ, but instead it has to have peace talks and a mutual agreement must be made. The UN feature in the game could tie into this, I think it'd be pretty neat actually.

I think it is a small attempt (very small IMO) to make people that wonder whore and neglect military (Strong pro-builders) not to be able to get an easy domination win from a war. It kind of keeps thing on track. If you are placing the importance of wonders/buildings above military then you don't require vassals. (Culture/Space/Diplomatic wins are your best options.) And helps the warmonger more easily be able to aquire vassals.

Consistently in the few wars that I gain the uperhand in, the opponent I am trashing on (as in 2 or 3 cities away from wiping them out) last minute always either A) Becomes the vassal of my ally (who has done nothing), or B) Vassals to a stronger Civ. Consequently, this seizes the war, and makes me at peace with the civ.

This is a problem because I would get dominated if I declared war on the vassal and master (both my neighbors). What is even more frustrating is that my enemy, despite the fact that I am destroying them refuses to capitulate to me, but gives in to another civ instead...what gives?

What do I do in these situations? Just man up and fight two enemies? Forget about ever taking over the continent?

thanks! :)

Are you patched to a recent version (3.17 is current, I still use 3.13)..?

Because previously, the behaviour you noted happened often. Since I think 3.13, Civs will only vassal to the civ that did them most damage in a war, i.e. not an ally of yours who hardly took part at all. Of course, they may still vassal to you greatest enemy, but this isn't wrong at all, and isn't what you mentioned,

I wish the BUG Mod would tell me when my victim has put capitulation on the table.

Yes this is a very frustrating part of the game. The only thing you can do about it is turn off vassals. But the point of a civ becoming the vassal of another is for protection, so it kinda makes sense for them to bow down to another civ.

The frustrating part is how easily weak civs j-up with other AIs, but NEVER join you. The only vassals I've ever had were capitulations when they had only 1-2 crappy cities left. Pointless.

In my last few games, I've had moderately powerful neighbours want to vassalise to me voluntarily. Make good friends with a neighbour and they're more than happy to become your vassal, especailly if you're ramping up your power.

Also, keep in mind who you're warring and how quickly they vassalise or capitulate. Mansa Musa and Gandhi are happy to be vassals, they don't care who to as long as they live. While someone like Monty, Shaka, or Toku is likely to want to fight to the bitter end. Plus, having vassals makes it easier to get more vassals. It's a very powerful domino effect

I wish the BUG Mod would tell me when my victim has put capitulation on the table.

Me too; this would be a great feature.

Actually, I have an idea for the case where the loser would have vassalized to you if you had simply checked and asked.

What if the game were set so that if the option of capitulation to you is available, the vassal initiates diplomacy and offers his neck to you first. This actually makes a lot of sense to me: give me the right of first refusal; if I demand continued bloodshed, then you can run to the protection of others.

Me too; this would be a great feature.

Actually, I have an idea for the case where the loser would have vassalized to you if you had simply checked and asked.

What if the game were set so that if the option of capitulation to you is available, the vassal initiates diplomacy and offers his neck to you first. This actually makes a lot of sense to me: give me the right of first refusal; if I demand continued bloodshed, then you can run to the protection of others.

That would work for me. Even if the victim put a precondition on it-

" Most Magnificent Frederick, I Napoleon, would gladly become your vassal if you would kindly restore Lyon to the remnants of my humble little civ"

That would be a pretty cool feature.

I had a recent game as Mehmed II on Standard map where 4 civs (on another continent) voluntarily vassalized to me in the late-midgame. I already had 1 friendly vassal on my continent and 1 capitulated one. I ended up winning a domination victory b/c I only had 2 smaller (but powerful) civs that hated my guts left. The others were larger but fairly weak. Then again, I had a huge tech lead and about 3 times the civ in 2nd place for military. So i guess I pwnd that game

It is in these situations I wish the AI could think like humans, since I basically redeclare and kill off the vassal before turning on the master and when he has three cities left he capitulates to someone else, rinse and repeat. If they could just learn to stop the suicidal vassalmaster play...

I usually go for the tech/military powerhouse first. Then very few civs will accept any vassals that will get them into a war with me.

You will always get an opportunity to Vassalise an AI before he Vassals to another. Once you get on top of him you need to check each turn to see if he is willing to rollover. Once the Capitulate option becomes available he is looking around for support, if you don't take him first you will have only a short timer before he links himself to someone else. He is very unlikely he will Vassalise to someone on another continent prior to Astronomy. They are deemed too far away to help. If they vassal to a pleased or friendly then you will be a peace - at war if they are pissed at you.

I believe they will only vassalize to a civ that at least has a city on the same landmass as them. IE if they want to be a vassal for an overseas power, they will have to settle at least 1 city on the other continent (or the other civ has to settle one city on the 'to-be-vassal' continent). That's how it was in Warlords.