I have Civilization IV with no expansion, pure vanilla. I've played that since I got it, with small breaks, and now found the passion for it again.
Even created a topic in here with some questions: Monarch and optimization! (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7198382)

I get a feeling, Beyond the Sword is a good expansion. Warlords is not that important to me, since I don't warfare entirely. I love basebuilding too, a lot.
This is where I'm lost:


PRO
BtS Coorporations, Espionage etc seems to be an unnecessary new layer for me. I love Civ IV as it is!
Colonization is out within a month, it seems. If it will take my concentration off of Civ IV, as Civ IV did with Civ III, it will be a waste.
BtS New techs, new units, new of a lot of things... I feel Civ IV is fine as it is.



PRO
BtS I'm sure there are a lot of interface or gameplay tweaks, that makes it easier and more fun to play. Like better AI, etc.
Colonization might be too different from the Civilization series and might not catch my attention.
Colonization might be dumbed down and made for newcomers, as that Revolution game for the consoles, or what it was called. Any info out on this?


Can you help me out with my decision? Civ IV, Civ IV BtS or Civ IV Colonization?

POOL OPTIONS IN DETAILS
Civ IV: Keep Civ IV, BtS is too much of tampering with the old formular, and Colonization is not like Civilization or too easy / simple.
BtS: Invest in Beyond the Sword, despite all the new layers with Coorps and Espionage, it still ups the playing experience a lot.
Colonization: Wait for Colonization. After that you'll never go back to Civ IV or any earlier Civ IV expansion, as that is like a Civ V actually!
BtS & Colonization: Get both BtS and Colonization, they are great additions and also different enough to not make you want to stop playing one or the other.

I say both, but if you have to choose, go for Colonization. Civ IV is fine without the expansion, but Colonization is a different game altogether. And a great one, at that.

If I discard the Coorporations, Espionage and the whole new layers, what new and improved about BtS will I miss out on? Are there a lot of small changes and improvements to the old Civ IV formular, that makes the game a lot more fun to play?
Or is it mostly new things and things related to that?

If I discard the Coorporations, Espionage and the whole new layers, what new and improved about BtS will I miss out on? Are there a lot of small changes and improvements to the old Civ IV formular, that makes the game a lot more fun to play?
Or is it mostly new things and things related to that?

BTS makes some subtle changes to the techtree, as indtroducing new techs and units. It's hard to say if you'll really miss them without knowing them in the first place ;). I'd get both if I were you, for the little money they cost, they offer an insane value, if you stick to eitehr of them.

Both. BtS adda a lot to Civ IV plus most new mods seem to be made for it now. The original Colonisation was a great game, I still play it ocasionally.
BtS includes the new stuff from Warlords except the scenarios so you are right that there isn't much reason to get it.

I don't use any mods, so that won't be a problem. But good point about Warlords and if BtS indeed does have most of the changes except scenarios, then that expansion is out of the question, naturally... :)

I'm a student, by the way. So that's why I don't buy both without question. I don't doubt BtS will add something more and give an overall better experience. The question is if it was needed :)

I don't know much about Colonization, but I know that if it was Civ V that came out, I wouldn't invest in more expansions to Civ IV as I would move on to that new game. As that is the same game, just better.
Colonization is another game, and I'm not sure which so not sure if it will make me stop playing Civ IV.

I'd say get BtS and download the latest Version of Fall From Heaven 2, which is not really a mod, but a completely other game, more like Master of Magic if you remember that. You could also download Version 0.24 which is for Vanilla just to look if you like it.

But as you said you're content with Civ4 as it is... well I'd say go for Colonization, because that's (like Fall from Heaven 2) a completely other game, but looks like Civ4. I think BtS is fun, and it has a little bit a better AI. But when I read your thread I have a feeling, that you don't want "more", but the same, better. I'm not completely sure BtS won't be "to much new things" for you.

Of course your question about if Colonization will be Dumbed for Newbies I can't answer before I saw it. The articles on IGN etc. seem to say otherwise, there are the Founding Fathers, the trade with Indian, even the Wagon's are in. So I suppose it will be Colonization looking like Civ4, and therefore it will be a good gaming experience, because the original Colonization was just great.

Personally I'm absolutely fan of Fall from Heaven, barely playing Vanilla or BtS ever since I came upon it, so I'm biased and would at any time buy BtS to get the new things for FFH. But I am not you, and regarding your post ("no mods", "Vanilla is okay", "I like Colonization") I would say it's better for you waiting for Colonization.

And btw. you are student, so you should sell every copy of any Version of Civilization you have and leave this time consuming addicting Civilization thing for when you reached your diploma. ;)

I've actually never played Colonization, so don't know if it is anything for me :) But it might be.
And I'm not wasting too much time on Civ IV, so it isn't hurting my studying. WoW, on the other hand, I play too :P Hehe. But no, it isn't a problem.

I might be tempted to stick with Civ IV, unless I find BtS for 10 dollar or so. Then I can always try to buy it. It costs 20 dollar if I buy a new copy, so it isn't that much anyways... But still, every penny counts.

I'd wait and see. Since you've never played the original Colonization, you should go out and get FreeCol, which is a freeware update of that game done by committee. But actually, I don't like that version as much as the original versions (for both DOS and Windows), which you can also find for free if you know where to look. If you find that you like whatever version of Col you get, then I'd recommend standing in line for the new version because it figures to be quite similar. If not, you've saved $30 or so.

No real opinion on BtS, except that I like it, and I have more disposable income than you seem to, so it's worth it for me. Eventually it'll come down in price, but it might be awhile.

I've actually never played Colonization, so don't know if it is anything for me :) But it might be.
And I'm not wasting too much time on Civ IV, so it isn't hurting my studying. WoW, on the other hand, I play too :P Hehe. But no, it isn't a problem.

I might be tempted to stick with Civ IV, unless I find BtS for 10 dollar or so. Then I can always try to buy it. It costs 20 dollar if I buy a new copy, so it isn't that much anyways... But still, every penny counts.I think key here is that you say that you like Civ as it is. I have heard both good and bad things about BtS, some of my friends think BtS went over the top with the espionage and corporations, although they do like the additional units and changes to the tech tree.

If you like Civ now, I do not see why you should get an expansion. the vanilla game is great as it is, so I would definitely get Col in that case. It is an entirely new game with only similarities to Civ, but it is quite a different experience altogether. Fans of Civ will like Col, period.

BTS completely bypassed Warlords. No reason to get it other than for the warmongerer scenarios and the Barbarians mod. I'd get BTS to be complete, as it really is a big leap over vanilla Civ 4, unless you're dying to play Colonization with it's commodity market.

I would pick both Beyond the Sword and Civilization 4. But if you don't have money to buy both, i would certainly pick Beyond the Sword.It not only greatly improves Civ4 Vanilla, but you can also play with some fantastic mods like Fall from Heaven 2, which will not have the same graphic of Civ4:Colonization but will have a lot more gameplay than what you can expect in Colonization.

So IMO it's nearly a no brainer choice

I would pick both Beyond the Sword and Civilization 4. But if you don't have money to buy both, i would certainly pick Beyond the Sword.It not only greatly improves Civ4 Vanilla, but you can also play with some fantastic mods like Fall from Heaven 2, which will not have the same graphic of Civ4:Colonization but will have a lot more gameplay than what you can expect in Colonization.

So IMO it's nearly a no brainer choiceBut TS said he does not play mods and he likes Civ4 vanilla, so what you propose will become far less interesting.

It is a brainer. ;)

I voted for both since I loved the original Colonization and BTS gives Civ so much more replayability (more civs, different leaders, more leader traits, more standard buildings, a special building for each civ, more units, more techs, more wonders and most of all a tougher AI).

But if money is an issue I would buy BTS (since it's pretty cheap) because it will pass the time until Colonization will get cheaper, too (probably after Christmas).

I voted for both since I loved the original Colonization and BTS gives Civ so much more replayability (more civs, different leaders, more leader traits, more standard buildings, a special building for each civ, more units, more techs, more wonders and most of all a tougher AI).

But if money is an issue I would buy BTS (since it's pretty cheap) because it will pass the time until Colonization will get cheaper, too (probably after Christmas).

Isn't it hard to fit in time for all the new buildings and units? I had to go from normal to epic, since I felt I would enter one era, but when I started trying to take advantage of that era's units etc, I would already be entering the second era...

Both. They're different enough to play and enjoy them both.

You can create a new epic 2 timeline. Here is what to do:
1) units and buildings build as normal.
2)Techs cost 2x as much for ancient techs and add 1x to each age in tech cost therafter.(compared to normal timeline techcost)
3)cities grow as normal.
4)play on a huge map.
5)play multiplayer or modify A.I files for the new timeline.
6) Play on a modern computer as you cannot play this with minimum specs.
7) improvements take normal times, and cottages improve as under epic mode

! the general idea about this modded epic timeline, is that you can easily use your units in each timeline and build huge empires, and tech at a normal rate.
But a small warning the size of your empire matters alot more in this timeline, since the maintence costs tend to be much smaller then the money you earn from each city.
Oh a small warning, this modded timeline would mean that it would truly take a long time to finish as well. Like almost epic realtime!

You would be stupid to buy a game you know nothing about when you have the alternative to check it out for free. Go download FreeCol, and play it. With the Col4 previews out, it shouldn't be that hard to figure out how to play, and I'm pretty sure there's at least nominal instructions on the website or in a helpfile.

My beef with Col is that the micromanagement becomes completely unbearable, and I can practically never get more than half way through a game before I'm overwhelmed and can't remember which cities do what and why. Yes, I need to learn to do a better job specializing, but everything needs everything! If Col4 doesn't fix this, I won't play it.

But anyway, FreeCol is a pretty good clone of Col, without the bugs and exploits caused by bugs, so it will be a great indicator of whether you will like Col4. And it's even a complete game and not some some stupid demo version! What more could you ask for?

As to BtS, I'm usually a more-is-better kind of guy, and I think the new espionage system is "teh awsum". I still don't use it much beyond the passive effects, but I think it was done much better than any other such game. I like Corps as they give you a reason to choose something besides State Property or Mercantilism. I like Vassals and Colonies. I like Warlords and all the things you can do with them. I even like being able to research Calendar and NOT obsolete critical Wonders!

All in all, I find BtS a lot closer to the ideal Civ experience than previous versions, and most of my gripes are minor things or interface WTF?s that are present in Vanilla too. I'm glad I got BtS and will never go back.

And who says you have to get a game when it's brand new? Wait a year until the price becomes more reasonable, and get it then. There'll be fewer bugs and you'll be able to see if the game was even supported by then too. Just create a note in your personal notes-to-self file to do it.

I've never played Col, but re CIVanilla v BtS, what BtS provides:

Fixes many problems--bugs, balance, mechanics;
Significantly better and more varied maps;
Unique Buildings for each civ;
More of the usual things--units, buildings, techs etc;
Bagful of official mods and scenarios;
Espionage and Corporations, + religion change [Apostolic Palace effects];
Good improvement to AI military tactics;
Vassals and Colonies;
No tech brokering option;
Quests and random events;
AI goes for Cultural victory.

There's probably more, but you get the point--there is a lot of improvement in BtS. You can avoid much of the new stuff if you don't like it--eg I turn Espionage off, just don't bother with Corporations, avoid the Apostolic Palace effects by disabling the Diplo victory condition, and have random events turned off. Even with all that off, I consider BtS a big improvement over CIVanilla.

My advice is as other said, play the free Col. If it doesn't grab you, then BtS is the safer bet for your limited dollars.

It depends a bit on which sort of gamer you are. I'm a BTS immortal+ player, from this viewpoint i think BTS is significantly better than vanilla and warlords because:

- corporations
- espionage
- AP

certainly enrich game play, AP can be annoying, you really have to take into account who has it and act accordingly.It makes the game more difficult and more complex at times, i think that's a good thing myself. The new features espionage and corps work ok and are balanced imo.

More important for me:

Ai has been improved, pre BTS you could really run over the ai with siege, BTS ais build units to protect their cities. I think the downgrading of siege in BTS is a very good thing.

Also in other respects the ai feels better, they vary their research more, not always going feudalism first for example. New leaders also add to the game especially Ethiopian Zara Yacob and Khmer Suryavarman can give you a hard time. Exploits such as trading iron for 4 resources while the ai already has iron have been removed. AI used to raze cities pre BTS, you just moved in with settlers to claim free land, not possible anymore. There are more of these sort of things. Each improvement's small in itself but all added together BTS just feels much more balanced than Warlords/Vanilla.

Deity level has actually become playable, it's still pretty difficult but pre BTS it could only be done with rigged settings or huge chunks of luck.

I know the original Colonization, it's a nice game but imo nowhere near the civilizations series, the new game 'll look better ofcourse but afaics there's not so much added compared to the original colonization.

So if i could only buy one game/expansion it would be BTS for sure.