I remember before I started reading these forums finding cheiften level challenging. ;)

Thanks to the great info, tips, advice and community games I managed to progress quickly from Warlord to Noble to Prince. But now I seem to be stuck on Prince! I'm starting to find it too easy to get a tech lead on Prince and on Monarch too easy to fall behind.

Over the last couple of weeks I've rolled several random starts on Monarch and generally can't seem to get anywhere with these games, always hopelessly behind the leaders in tech or power. On Prince I can generally pull a good lead or at least get to parity with the AI by the time lib comes around. On Monarch it feels like an uphill struggle to get close to the tech leaders.

I think I understand why I'm struggling at this level, with Prince its fairly easy to get a tech lead early so I've never found tech trading very useful as the game goes on, with Monarch I feel I have to try and trade to catch up but my tech trading skills are woefully rubbish :sad:. And also balancing everything going on in the game, Building, teching, units... It seems to me on Prince I can get away with over looking things :mischief: where as Monarch always seems to punish me one way or the other.

I guess, after all of that, I'm asking for general advice from other players that have made that jump between Prince & Monarch, what they found helped them or generally any advice on progressing to the next level.

Thanks :)

Focus ! ;)

Really, the key is focusing on the plan. Do what you need and forget the rest ( this applies especially to the wonders )

You can actually still get a blowaway lead very early on monarch with a decent start or something like pyramids.

Regardless, it's not TOO much different tactically from prince. Go with your SE or CE or whatever E and expand. The tech priority is just a little more important but decent micro can still flat out overpower the AI on monarch (monarch is the difficulty I started using Horse Archer charging - including the Cam_H game where I used them almost exclusively as churchill). However, if you're struggling with tech trades, look at the tech trade diplomacy screen. You can usually see things the AI generally doesn't have. Research those, and trade them.

Early on one of the best trading techs is aesthetics, although you may find the AI researches Code of Laws and monarchy so slowly that you'll want to research them yourself after a while. COL is a good trade tech itself, especially if you get there first.

Now an extra tip: AIs take into account how many beakers you've sunk into a tech when trading it. Because of this, you can research say currency partway, then trade aesthetics for it.

So basically what did it for me: Extreme military aggression, and slightly improved tech brokering (it started to matter much more on emperor+).

The biggest piece of advice I can give you is to accept things and keep moving.

On the higher levels you will fall behind in tech. Other leaders will control more territory than you. That's just the way the bonuses work out. Don't think that because you're not at the top of the scoring list, you're screwed.

War is much more important at the higher levels. Playing peacefully is playing right into the A.I.s' hands, as it allows them to take advantage of their improved tech rate without interference and allows them to gloss over their deficiencies in strategy and tactics.

Finally, diplomacy plays a factor. Your opponents aren't playthings to be exploited or ignored at your leisure the way they are on the lower levels. Find a couple of friends, keep them happy, and let their advantages work for you rather than against you.

Thanks for the tips :)

War is still a weak spot in my game, as I tend war only when I have a tech advantage I'm finding it hard to use war effectivley when I'm lagging behind a bit. Just need more practice at that I guess.

I think part of the problem is that I'm just throwing the towel in too soon!

I've just recently made a transition from Prince to Monarch and the main difference I think is that you need to micromanage your cities more on Monarch to balance the bonuses the AI is getting. In the early going this is especially important... Don't build a workboat early on working a grassland tile if you can work a plains hill tile and finish the boat much sooner... that kind of thing.
Also, since AI researches faster, you have to capitalize on your tech advantage more quickly if you plan to be aggressive. If I'm first to Rifling, I turn off research for 2 turns, amass ~2k of gold and mass upgrade my maces to riflemen and declare on a neighboring AI. If I don't do this, chances are it will take me 10+ turns to make/upgrade enough Riflemen and by that time at least some AI's will get to Rifling as well.

I'm totally stuck with you groo. I find that though teching is more difficult, my true enemy is the early expansion. I can expand well enough, keeping with the larger civs, but I start to lack in military and/or tech.

To war with a tech disadvantage, do what Monty does on Earth18- Build siege weapons. Lots of them. Contrary to popular belief, an Axeman can indeed take down an Infantry that's been pummeled by 15 Suicide Catapults.

Prince to Monarch is a difficult jump indeed, IMHO because the AIs (and Barbs, for that matter) now start with Archery, and their "best unit", the Archer.

This makes getting early defense more important, and in order to rush, needing more units. Pre-Monarch, you can warrior rush, or if you do wait for Axes or Chariots, you will likely find AIs with Warriors.

Also, there is a significant jump in "timing" at this stage, again IMHO, because the AI tends to place a high priority on Archery, and therefore must tech it themselves pre-Monarch. This leaves the human more time to get to key techs, to found religions, to be the first to a Wonder-tech, etc.

To maintain both a decent expansion rate and tech rate, the key is Writing, followed closely by Currency and Code of Laws, and CS. Get those Libraries up ASAP, chop em, whip em, whatever it takes, and force yourself to run those Scientist specialists, so you can get to Currency and CoL ASAP, followed closely by CS and the Holy Grail of Bureaucracy. This is pretty crucial once you hit Monarch and higher levels, due to those early AI bonuses.

Another key "grail tech" is Monarchy, this one should come pretty early too. Monarchy will help you keep your power rating up, since a unit = a happy face, which is especially key in those high-food cities. More citizens = more tiles worked and/or specialists, especially cottages for cash and scientists for research.

Another tip is that you likely need to "streamline" your play. Rolo said it with one word, Focus. Once I realized I had to stop trying to "squeeze in" those "extras" I started to find it easier to keep pace. I used to think "wow, CS is going to take 21 turns, but I can get Sailing or HBR in 4" and hold off on CS. Works fine on Prince. Sucks toads on Emperor, heh.

I think you can do it Groo! Try some easier leaders, with strong financial techs. You will find that when you can keep up in tech, the rest falls into place and you will find yourself ramming Macemen and Trebs down Montys throat in no time!

I have recently completed the jump from Prince -> Monarch, now trying to make it to Emperor, so hopefully I can provide a few more useful tips.

Please bear in mind I also roll 100% random starts/leaders, play Epic Speed, with Aggressive AI turned on, so some of these comments may not apply.

As pointed out, micromanaging your cities becomes more important, as saving turns helps you catch up to the AI. More specifically, you need to learn when to grow your city, when to whip, and when to maximise production - I recommend checking out the War academy and reading all of the articles about city micromanaging.

From the sound of your OP, you may not be specialising your cities all that well either, I also suggest you look at some of the articles on city specialisation (this was something I neglected at Prince level and only started to pick up at Monarch level)

Early on, you can't work many tiles in your cities, so I think your first 3-4 cities need to be focused on the short term - I might found a city thats going to have several useless tiles at size 20 and may be mediocre at size 10 if it will be a relative powerhouse at size 4, or hooks up a key resource(s) much sooner. Of course, this is highly dependant on the land available.

My (mis)adventures into Emperor/Immortal have taught me that fogbusting is a lot more important - while growing your first city pump out a few more Warriors and use them to fogbust your next few city sites.

I agree with the other posters that suggested a greater focus on what you need. I find beelining techs is the most important thing (after properly selecting/managing your early game cities). Beelining (hopefully) gives you a monopoly on a tech and a headstart on a key unit or building.

When tech trading with the AI, I would suggest holding off on trading a monopoly tech to the AI until you can trade with several AI at once (eg - instead of trading currency the turn after you research it to one AI for construction, hold off for a few turns and trade it to three AI for 2 techs + gold) - note this does risk the AI researching it and trading it before you can. If an AI is almost done researching it, you wont get much for it anyway.



Also, only backfill trade for techs you need - at Prince level I used to get flustered that the AI had Mono/HBR/Music/Theo/DR before me and trade away key techs just to fill up - when 90% of my games don't utilize the benefits of these technologies.

Warring at tech parity is something I had to do often on Monarch (let alone doing it at a tech disadvantage at Emperor! :P) - as Neal pointed out, the key is more siege weapons - usually I use a half-dozen accuracy Trebuchets and a LOT of CR catapaults for taking cities. I find that if you are DoW'ed on, letting the AI bring its SoD into your territory and pummelling it when it is on flat, uncovered ground works well.

I have been experimenting with beelining Steel after Liberalism (for suicide Cannons) and using pikes/cannons for (limited) stack protection, CR Maces to finish off AI Riflemen and Muskets for CG duties - this may work for you also.

I'm sure you can win at this level, it just takes a little bit of adjustment and practise. Also, remember the game isn't over until one of the AI's achieve a victory condition. Warring weaker, tech deficient AI's and using their lands to catch up in tech can salvage a 'lost' game.

Adding to Bley's key economy techs is pottery. I don't care WHAT economy building you run or what else you do in a city - the granary is the #1 economic building in the game. If you're whipping, it helps you regrow. If you're growing a city large, it will get you there *much* faster. It might even make you breakfast in bed if you get them up fast enough.

Add to the fact that you gain the option to build and work cottages, and all you need is some :) and courthouses to fund a MASSIVE empire. Currency is a very, very nice tech too.

The thing to remember about tech trades as you move up in level is that they become less and less fair. So it's quite alright sometimes to give the AI 1.5-2 times the beakers or more than what you receive in techs. The important thing then becomes to target techs that you can trade to multiple AIs. Suddenly what you give away might be less then what you gain overall even if all the AIs individually benefit more from the deal. This is part of the reason why bulbing is so powerful on higher levels, it can instantly give you a tech that noone yet possesses that you would have slim hope of researching normally in time.
You can live with the unfair trades, because you're going to use what you get much more effectively than the AI can ever hope to do.
Some good techs have already been mentioned, Aesthetics and COL for example. Other than some basic generally good trade techs like these it will vary from game to game as different leaders have different preferences and adapt if ineptly to the situation at hand.

Thanks for all the responses :)

Lots of very sound advice there

Try some easier leaders, with strong financial techs.

I have been avoiding overly powerful leaders & rerolling starts with gold or gems in the capitals BFC purely because I wanted to see if I could beat Monarch without such nice advatages. I guess I should stop making things hard on myself :crazyeye: and pick a one of the stronger leaders, give myself a break! :)

Dont be afraid to fall behind. If you fall behind because you've just conquered your neighbour, in 50 turns you'll be much better off than you were before you conquered him/her.

If you fall behind because your a builder... well, i honestly dont know, because i never turtle because i find it REALLY boring! :lol:

The best advice anyone ever gave me on these boards was "the more tiles you work, the more powerful you are".


EDIT: also, what helped me learn was to reload some maps from the beginning and try and play them differently.

The biggest thing you have to watch out for is falling behind in power. Since all the AI's begin with a bigger power rating and can start building archers from the start you start to trail fast. If you neglect barracks, walls (as protective) and a couple of axemen you all of a sudden become a tasty target. Combine this with not adopting a popular religion and you might get some unwanted visitors fast.

If you are a sloppy player (like me) then prince is your level. If you do micromanage more and start paying attention to diplomacy then monarch can be done. I can handle monarch but I am too lazy for all the MM. And no MM does not mean Mansa Munsa or Mass Media over here :p

Firstly thanks for all the great tips so far :) and sorry for dragging this thread back up again :mischief: but it seemed silly to start a new one.

After reading all the advice here I decided to run several starts on monarch to really try and understand what I've finding difficult with the jump to Monarch. Here's what I've found.

Early exploration! :(

Most of the time I either loose my starting unit early or I'm really cautious with the fellow, which normally results with very slow exploration and very few huts popped! A lot of the time I'm starting my first settler and have 0 funds in the bank.

The general lack of money & slightly higher costs really hamper me when I attempt to settle cities having to drop the slider very quickly and research dies until libraries are up and some scientists are running.

Its seems very difficult trying to keep up with the AI both in power rating and settling new cities and I generally have to focus on one more than the other. After several random starts it seems to me rushing seems the most viable strategy on higher difficulties.

Its seems fairly easy to out power neighbours by focussing just on military, maybe settling one city to grab an early military resource and then spamming some troops and taking an opportunity to take out a rival whose neglected units. From early rushing I get a well promoted army, plenty of funds from conquering cities and of course new cities without having to build settlers.

Of course all this isn't new or anything its just new to me, I never rush unless boxed in, and in fact some games I never even build Heroic Epic because I never get a lvl 3 unit. :lol:

Rushes do seem very hit and miss and an oportunist tactic, is this the way to go Monarch or above? seems I can't get very far playing a peaceful game at the start. And sometimes rushes just ain't viable, no close by neighbour, trying to rex on Monarch just seems to kill me.

I could just stick to prince I guess ;) but it is starting to get a bit easy and I want a challenge but not a grind.

Having your science crash until you get writing is a good thing. If the slider stays at 90%-100% early game you aren't exapnding enough. :p

Though getting writing as soon as reasonably possible is a good idea.

Sounds like you're doing OK Groo.

As for this part:
Rushes do seem very hit and miss and an oportunist tactic, is this the way to go Monarch or above? seems I can't get very far playing a peaceful game at the start. And sometimes rushes just ain't viable, no close by neighbour, trying to rex on Monarch just seems to kill me.

I could just stick to prince I guess ;) but it is starting to get a bit easy and I want a challenge but not a grind.
Rushing like most levels, if the guy is right next to you and you pop copper, go for it, but if have enough land to expand fairly well without bothering, you can always wait for a more pure military advantage. You dont have to REX, settle the strong spots, carve out territory, get those Libs and Courthouses down, and play smart. Settle as you can, no need for a big rush once you have 3 or 4 solid sites nailed down.

Rushing like most levels, if the guy is right next to you and you pop copper, go for it, but if have enough land to expand fairly well without bothering, you can always wait for a more pure military advantage.

Expanding on this thought - once you're up to construction, and have gotten sufficient practice, you do have a pure military advantage. You have a brain, all the AI has are dice.

About the exploration bit; you should be more concerned with keeping your scouts alive and doing a systematic search in an expanding circle from your capital than popping huts. You get fewer and fewer huts as you move up in level anyhow since the AI spam scouts like no tomorrow and steals most of them.

First, enjoy it while it lasts. For me, beating Monarch meant getting a better grasp of concepts and strategies (still enough freedom to try cool and unusual stuff) rather than tight play (Emperor, Immortal) or abusing the hell out of the mechanics (Deity), so mastering it was more fun.

Monarch is defined by strategy: You can still play from the front, but you usually can't run away in everything.
As such you need to focus: do you want a wonder collection, an early tech lead, more land or simply cripple neighbour 2 and 3 for eventual conquest after rushing the first one?

If you're used to lower-level play, you are probably too afraid about compromising early research. Expanding so fast that you're dropping down to 20% science isn't a sign you're doing things wrong; in fact this might well become the norm on higher levels. Catching up in tech with sufficient land is easier than the other way round (if you only have a handful of cities, building up an army to break the squeeze will take up most of your resources for a long time...).

Thanks everyone, now I just have to put all that into practice :crazyeye:

Cheers :)

Expansion drives my research rate down big time, and I'm trying a lot of different ideas to address it after that first expansion.

I've probably got a mish-mosh of strategies going here, :crazyeye: and I know two major weaknesses are a lack of sufficiently specialized cities, and a lack of cottages. I'm trying the alternate tech paths: settling that first GS and running a 0% research rate for a time to get the cash up: and being A LOT more selective with which (if any) wonders I go for (e.g. maybe Artemis /GLH if I'm Hannibal, probably not if I'm someone else; I used to love the Parthenon, but it seems like a luxury at higher levels; I recently got the Mausoleum for the first time in a LONG time and hardly even remember how to get the most out of it).

My most recent gambit has been beelining Literature, building part of Parthenon before switching to GL, trading Aesthetics when GL is almost done to backfill some essential techs and taking the cash when some AI inevitably beats me to the Parthenon. In the meantime, I try to take out my closest/most problematic neighbor as soon as I can (Alexander is a PITA). That has given me a chance at tech parity in most of my games, and the early conquest usually gives me a couple of good cities and veteran troops.

The biggest problem I've had with this is the economic consequences, and I am trying to get over my anti-razing bias (hard to "keep the best, raze the rest.) However, getting the land has helped, eliminating the rival has helped: specializing my cities would surely help (keeping military units in the pipeline, GP popping out regularly.)

Do I really need markets everywhere to compete? And should it be markets before courthouses, or forges before either, or temples of my religon for those extra two hammers and the :) that I need before I even do that? And the temptation of "just one more axeman" before building something I really need is tough to resist, especially when the power graph/demo screen is scaring me....

I guess that's what it's all about-figuring out the challenges and learning from my mistakes. :blush:

Hey guys, I'm doing(imo) pretty well (compared to some dismal failures) in a recent Monarch game. I was wondering if I could have some general tips on what I'm doing wrong/should do.

I'm playing Pacal on Mon/Epic, and here are some pics.


Top half of my empire:
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Civ4ScreenShot0007-2.jpg

Bottom Half:
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Civ4ScreenShot0008-2.jpg

Demographics:
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Civ4ScreenShot0009-2.jpg

Power graph:
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Civ4ScreenShot0010-2.jpg


Now, I'm doing badly in Power, but Prod., Food, and Pop. is doing well. Life expectancy, I'm not too worried about since that'll be good once I clear this jungle. I think I'd be able to pull off a space race victory, but I'd still like some tips. Should I war? If so, should I attack Sulie before his truckload of cities develops, or Churchill? Basically, how can I make this game a total thrashing for the AI?

EDIT: I also would like to know where should I put my GP farm? Mutal? (I know, it's rather late for a GP farm, but I kinda forgot :blush:)

EDIT2: Forgive my lack of courthouses;I only just researched CoL

Save is below.

About the exploration bit; you should be more concerned with keeping your scouts alive and doing a systematic search in an expanding circle from your capital than popping huts. You get fewer and fewer huts as you move up in level anyhow since the AI spam scouts like no tomorrow and steals most of them.

I disagree. Particularly with a scout, go for huts until the AIs have most regions of the land scouted (won't take long). Then look around your remaining territory. The first warrior you build while growing check out nearby spots you missed.

Chop those jungles, ASAP (build like 5 workers fast). If you're building up a city, granary before courthouse. You don't need spies and you can skip galleys. Prioritize axes over holkans, as Zara's peaceful and I don't think Churchill is much of a backstabber. Skip the aqueduct if your city is healthy.

Oz should have been settled 2S. Cottage cities should get libraries over courthouses.

Cottage the flood plains in Mutal. Trade some resources (clams) for gold.

@ Krick19: Research currency; 7 cities with an extra trade route is worth 15-20 gpt and its free. Not sure why you researched construction and aren't building cats.

Generally speaking at monarch you should really be having at least an outline plan e.g. peaceful spam and space race; spam and go cultural; spam then medieval war; spam then gunpowder war; prepare for war now (collate units in a stack, add a dozen cats and kill someone). The precise plan is less important than just having one. A plan gives you a focus and tells you what to prioritise (research, buildings,units etc) and what to omit.

Krick

You have way too much jungle/ forest left. Have you not heard of chopping??All that extra production bonus chopping provides at start is key. I would of used the forest to speed up worker/ settler production. Unless you were saving it for a reason?

By doing this the English would never have laid hastings so close to your capital. Although a city with bad terrain is never great. Food is key at start.

For me this start screams not enough chopping and too few workers. Jungle/forest heavy land needs 2-3+ more workers than usual. Its unfortunate you dont seem to have copper or horse near your capital. Still iron working would of allowed an early war. I would not want to be boxed in by the English.

Just had a look at your save. If you switch to caste system you could be running 6 scientists in your capital. A great person in 9 turns. Thats an academy in 9 turns. This would also hike up your science beakers per turn by about 40-50%.

I am concerned its 310ad and you have not had a single great person yet. The Ai have 100% blocked you in. Your now left in a situation where your trying to catch up in science. (A gp farm can provide a city that gives over 50% of your science beakers a turn). A wonder would have helped pop a great person. If you can build hanging gardens this would help pop a great engineer. (Guessing Ai might be building this already) You dont seem to have stone or marble either. Ackkk!!

My strategy going forward would be to chop as many forest as possible and build swordmens and more workers. Taking the English holy city would help your economy. You might anger a few neighbours in doing so. You need to make your military at par first. Not sure if you have catapults yet. (I didnt check) You need to do this before the English get longbowmen.

I think your expansion at start was delayed by decision to not chop the forest. I aim for 4 cities by 2000bc on my games. bronze working is a key early tech for me. A library and 2 scientists in a city early on is a must for me too.

Its more than possible on Monarch by 1500ad to be 3-4 techs ahead of the AI. For me this would not be possible without a GP farm or a strategy using great light house or pyramids.

Heck, as long as I'm taking another crack at Monarch right now, I might as well jump in looking for some help. I played Monarch a few times, but I didn't like the 50/50 win ratio I was getting, so I went back to prince and experimented with all sorts of leaders and map settings. With a near 100% win rate now, and frequently boring end-games, I'm going to step it up again.


Attached is a save of my first new attempt at Monarch. I chose normal sized map, continents, epic speed, and the leader with my favorite (Charasmatic) and biggest crutch (Financial) traits. Might as well stack the deck in my favor while I get the hang of it. I also prioritized the UU tech, which allowed me to capture a Barb city and keep the power rating pretty high.


Here's the deal:, it's a big landmass; three other civs on it (Pacal, Hammurabi, Isabella, not a bad group, actually.) All of them were too far away for me to rush out of the box, which is too bad, becuase a quick grab of an enemy capital seems to guarantee victory for me. So, I am trying to grab some land before they gobble it all up, and here's where I need the advice.


Please look at this save and let me know what you would do next. I'm thinking I can keep whipping military units and settler/workers in the big cities (as well as adding a scientist or two to start the GP points.) Elsewhere, I think I can improve, chop/whip the new cities while also settling 1-3 more cities to the East. I'd really like to get a city on the East coast if possible. This strategy means seriously cutting production in the capital, as I will need to use it almost exclusively for commerce to carry the economy.

Speaking of economy, I'm working on currency at the moment because I think it will help me and I THINK I'll be able to trade it to my girlfriend for Monarchy. So, does that make sense, and how should I go about it?


Ooh! Pretty pictures:
top half cities
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/JTMacc99/CivIV/Hannibaltopcities.jpg
bottom half cities
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/JTMacc99/CivIV/Hannibalbottomcities.jpg

top half continent
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/JTMacc99/CivIV/Hannibaltophalf.jpg
bottom half continent
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/JTMacc99/CivIV/Hannibalbottomhalf.jpg

Hmmm... looking at these pictures make me think I should grab that gold/silk there pretty soon.

The carthage Numidian cavalry is a hugely powerful UU. You should be building these in mass. Your two main cities can knock these out in 6/7 turns. Both good for producing units. I would give them flanking promotion. 40% withdrawl chance would make them hugely powerful even against spearmen. If you chop your forest you could soon have a stack of 7-10 of these. You already have 3 sitting in cities looking pretty.

I dont know why your building a christian missionary. Not needed really. Open borders will spread religion into your land. I dont think you need a wall either at mo. Build lots of horsemen and attack. Your cavalry will take out most melee units.

My key target to attack would be the holy city of Akkad. Take enough horsemen and this should fall. The Babylonian bowmen get no bonus against horsemen. If you can convince spain to join war this would be good.

Once you have 7-8 cities from the war with babylonian you can concentrate on specialists in your capital. 2 scientists would soon pop a great scientist and you could build an academy. Building lots of cottages or having a city with lots of specilists will greatly increase your science rate. Dont worry if your science rate falls to 10% from the war. Count the science beakers a turn not the science rate. Once the war is over your economy wll recover as your cottages or specilaist city grow.

You do need to use specialists or build wonders to get great people.

Okay heres what I did. I switched all cities to Numidian Cavalry. I didnt finish the wall/missionary or axemen. I built 3-4 N cavalry. I sent 6 or so and the axemen to babylonian borders and attacked. They only had swordsmen defending. I lost no horsemen in the attack. They all retreated after doing good damage. Babylon is next and its looking rather weak.

I gave the Spanish horse riding and they delcared war on Babylon.

i have just noticed north of carthage you have copper and crabs. great for a city. Anyway by 55ad you could take Akkad.

I switched from a food resource near border to production resource so the border city is now low on food. Once the food is low i will switch this back to save the pop. You can whip Akkad for a building.

Heh. Kill, kill, kill. I see....

So, what do I do after running my horde of NC through Babylon? My thought would be to keep going right to the coastal city, assume that my girlfriend will take out anything south of that, and then swing back and do something about Opis. I'm not sure I'd want to keep Opis, as I would be in much better condition if I were to settle in the Gold/Silk site and then somwhere on the coast around the spices and south of the incense. This puts me at 10 cities, which should be a fiscal disaster, but would also seal off the continent much to my advantage. I'm sure the Spanish would set sights on the little guy while I regroup.


I forget how cool the UU (and the UB for that matter) are for the Carthaginians.


And to answer the questions, I was building the missionary for the new city on the west coast. I think it was going to take 5 turns, plus another two or so to get him down there. The thought process was that, even though I know the religion would spread there eventually, I figured that I could accelerate the border pop and make back a few of the hammers when I whipped a building (Granary I think) there under my current civic of Organized Religion. I was building the wall because I was thinking about building more settlers to grab the northern land, and was looking to discourage aggression without massing troops there.

Having said that, I like your way better.

I would expand till you have 8 or so cities. I would certainly take Babylon and capture or burn opis.

Once you have 7-8+ cities you can concentrate on cottage economy or specialist economy. Just decide what each city will do. you have 2 good production cities at mo. One should be dedicated to units.

I might even use The NC while I can. Once the Ai have longbowmen this is the time to stop and build. Even after the war you have 3-4 good places to build new cities.

At some point you will have to stop and build your economy when you science rate fall to 10-20%. You will also need a great priest to build the holy building in Akkad. This will generate 10-15 gold a turn. build a Temple and add two priests to a city. Perhaps your capital once peace is in place.

Your economy should be helped from money from captured cities.

Hmm.. gotta try those Numidians. :):)
1) They do well against Axemen and Swordsmen
2) They do relatively well against Spearmen especially with CI+Shock, making them tough to counter
3) They do as well vs. Archers as Axemen
4) They can flank attack siege weapons.
5) They have 2 movement points!!

I think you can build 10ish of these guys and just pillage any AI's territory to the ground and pick off some cities as well. Tough to counter these things except with Horse Archers which actually do well against these but come at the same time. If you beeline HBR, no should have Horse Archers for a while.

@Krick19

Sully is weaker than Churchill in power and not Protective so I'd attack him since you seem to be boxed in.

A couple things helped me move from Prince to Monarch:

Tech trading properly.
Fast expansion.
Dropped my wonder addiction.
Learned proper warmongering, especially in the renaissance era.
Better city specialization.

Hannibals unit looks like a lot of fun. I am almost tempted to start a game with him. Trouble is i am not finishing many games at mo. :lol:

I like experimenting. :crazyeye:

I'm working on the same myself, I however play with techbrokering off wich makes life a lot easier, still some of my advice may be useful.


Early exploration! :(

Most of the time I either loose my starting unit early or I'm really cautious with the fellow, which normally results with very slow exploration and very few huts popped! A lot of the time I'm starting my first settler and have 0 funds in the bank.

The general lack of money & slightly higher costs really hamper me when I attempt to settle cities having to drop the slider very quickly and research dies until libraries are up and some scientists are running.


It's easy to slow down early. As rolo wrote focus is important!
Consider where you settle both for strategic AND economic reasons.
Also you'll often need to work something that generates gold with the second or third pop, make one or two cottages (no need for 10 cottages).
The autoassign engine sometimes sets too much weight on growth, you need to make sure that the city is actually working that gold mine/cottage or whatever you use for cash.


Its seems very difficult trying to keep up with the AI both in power rating and settling new cities and I generally have to focus on one more than the other. After several random starts it seems to me rushing seems the most viable strategy on higher difficulties.

Even more so on lower difficulties.


Its seems fairly easy to out power neighbours by focussing just on military, maybe settling one city to grab an early military resource and then spamming some troops and taking an opportunity to take out a rival whose neglected units. From early rushing I get a well promoted army, plenty of funds from conquering cities and of course new cities without having to build settlers.

Indeed, grabbing other capital sites make a lot of difference.
If you also have alphabet, you can trade peace for techs that you are behind, 10 rounds later you finish them off (with the risk of him bribing allies).


Of course all this isn't new or anything its just new to me, I never rush unless boxed in, and in fact some games I never even build Heroic Epic because I never get a lvl 3 unit. :lol:

It's more and more important to utilize the special buildings at higher levels.
I keep forgetting about the globe theater/draft trick.
Heroic Epic is GREAT, you'll get a lvl3 unit in your first war.


Rushes do seem very hit and miss and an oportunist tactic, is this the way to go Monarch or above? seems I can't get very far playing a peaceful game at the start. And sometimes rushes just ain't viable, no close by neighbour, trying to rex on Monarch just seems to kill me.


Very early rush (a few axemen w/o barracks) is maybe a hit and miss.

I'd say it's the way to go on Monarch and lower (not trying higher yet).
Some considerations, the protective trait often puts a halt to warring especially if cities are on hills.
With a big enough stacks you don't really need catapults until the AI have longbowmen.
I always build barracks so I can get the cr1 promo.
Go for the capital, AI can seldom do anything useful after it's taken.

Choose your techpatch wisely.
After food I often go for alphabet, currency, monarchy and feudalism before stuff like literature or code of laws.
While courthouses mercantilism are good, I don't need them yet.
Fuedalism is good for vassaling, while vassals aren't that useful vassaling will shorten the wars, quick wars are good wars.