Alright so a bunch of us(me included) thought Elizabeth would be a great leader to take us to the next level. So she's back and badder than ever!


http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Civ4ScreenShot0003-5.jpg
Her traits are great, FIN and PHI, two of my faves. This calls for a great hybrid economy. Her UU, the Redcoat gets a 25% bonus against Gunpowder Units, which is really helpful when you're attacking muskets or rifles. Lastly the UB is a Bank with 65% more income instead of 50%. This combines for a nasty combo.

And the start:

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Civ4ScreenShot0004-4.jpg


And here is the standard cut and paste of our Club Doctrine(ME STOLE YOUR DOCTRINE, BLEYS!):

There are no hard and fast rules here, fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do request that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards.

Tentative posting updates are suggested at:

4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, etc)
500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didnt, met other continent if applicable, etc)
1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

Remember, these are only guidelines. What we really want are your thoughts as the game goes on, so if your strats dont fall into line with those dates, feel free to adjust your reports accordingly.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps(I could never get the WB saves right), and all of you for playing.

The WB-save is attached (zipped, they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, I suggest checking out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC XII". This allows you to play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Prince, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Also, it should be noted that although this is a "pre-Monarch" oriented series, you are welcome to play it at levels above Prince. However, the AIs will NOT get their full set of bonus techs. The main difference is Archery, which the AI normally gets for free at Monarch and above. The main affects of this are in the AIs starting units (warriors instead of archers) and it also creates a tad "slower" AI, since they now have to tech Archery themselves.

In addition, because of the variations of using the Scenario menu, your starting Scout/Warrior may not be in exactly the same spot as the one shown.

I had a feeling this was coming out so I'm delaying PYL for a week. I'll probably stay emperor here while immortal is still hit or miss for me (don't want to beat it without its bonuses and immortal AIs even get AG etc :p).

Not a lot of food in this start unless something's hidden in fog (maybe 2-3 flood plains to the right?, can't quite tell).

Rolo/Bleys had adjusted to complaints on NC X about difficult maps by posting a spoiler suggestion for new players on approaching the map. Once I play it I'll do something similar for people who haven't started yet. I'll say right now though, that if food is a problem you're going to want to ease off whipping you'd otherwise want to do quite fervently :p.

EDIT: TMIT's Map tip:

Similar to NC X, this map greatly favors aggressive settling practices. Nearby :) resources and the trait combo lends strongly towards avoiding wonders in favor of more cities. I advise against a traditional EARLY rush, and coming from me that means something! Pick religion carefully to avoid unnecessary early surprises.

Plains. Everywhere. at least there's a river and what looks like a Floodplain right near by, though. I'll take a crack at this, I guess.

Great :)

I've been waiting for this game for my first renewed solo effort at Monarch.

Wow! :eek: I don't think I've ever seen so much plains in a starting screenie before. I'm really hoping thats theres's some food hiding in the fog!

I'll be going Monarch/Epic this game.

Yeah Monarch/Epic for me too. Lulz groo, you wanna have a friendly competition? See who wins first?(Though tbh, I haven't won yet, so it would probably be survive as long as I can) :p

I wonder whats hidden where the settlers are. A lot of forest, and feck all resources. There has to be something there:)

Yeah Monarch/Epic for me too. Lulz groo, you wanna have a friendly competition? See who wins first?(Though tbh, I haven't won yet, so it would probably be survive as long as I can) :p

Yeah, it probably would be a case of who loses last rather than who wins first :lol: I havn't beaten Monarch yet either!

I'm up for a bit of freindly competition :) just for fun!

Checkpoint1, 1150 BC, Noble/Marathon:
I posted earlier that there might be something hidden in the bare spot the settlers were standing. Going with that instinct, I decided for a move 1E of the start.
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm20/xl_single_malt/NCLIZ/start-move10000.jpg
Turned out to be quite profitable, 4FP and precious gold. My first research choice was BW, and build was a worker (I wanted a mine there ASAP). Then Wheel and pottery were next up, as the FP were begging for cottages. Suffice to say my research skyrocketed. I also found Zara early and decided to DoW him, in the hope his cap was undefended. No such luck, a warrior was already there, and a worker too:mad:. I just left my warrior there, as I didn't want him expanding too quick. It paid off, as he had to wait for archery, and two archers to kill my warrior, by which time I was getting ready to settle for copper. I managed to tech MC by about 1800BC or maybe even earlier...financial gold start rocks.

Here is the sit rep
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm20/xl_single_malt/NCLIZ/myworld0000.jpg
not explored much - will soon change

The civs I have met
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm20/xl_single_malt/NCLIZ/FA10000.jpg
The power sit
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm20/xl_single_malt/NCLIZ/graph10000.jpgSury seems to be spending quite a bit on espionage...

Techs researched (Alphabet being done as we speak)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm20/xl_single_malt/NCLIZ/tech10000.jpg
London
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm20/xl_single_malt/NCLIZ/London10000.jpg
York
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm20/xl_single_malt/NCLIZ/York10000.jpg
My immediate plan is to get two more cities, scout the lands with axes, and send a few axes Zara's direction

I wonder whats hidden where the settlers are. A lot of forest, and feck all resources. There has to be something there:)

I think there is never a resource in the settler's starting spot.

Emp/Epic to 1000 BC


Starting warrior in a different spot - we have GOLD! Still not much food though. Except that the warrior reveals rice if I settle 1 SE. Ok.

3900 Nearby jumbos mean we have +2 :) from resources early. Nice.
3825 Met Zara. Yikes...must be close.
3475 Sury. Hmm...Zealot. No religion for zara so we'll see how this goes.
3400 Tech whore MM.
3325 MM is hindu
3125 Copper very near - next border pop.
2975 I declare war on Zara and plant a warrior next to his border on a forest hill. I will later swap an axe in there.
2375 Forgot to mention I already settled york 4 E of capitol a while back. It will whip a monument next turn.
2350 I have all worker techs, pottery, and bronze working. I'm going IW next to claim gems to SW...then probably priesthood/writing ----> CoL
2325 Met Louis
1400 3rd city settled to claim 2x gems, a 3rd copper, and corn.
1000 BC Gems are long hooked up, Zara broke the Axe choke but I'm looking to replace it (Basically I don't care as long as I slow him down).

I'm 2 turns from CoL, so I'm likely to found Confuc. - I will try to find and spread this to Sury for some fun religious hell (Louis is buddhist, MM hindu :p). I will continue to settled towards Mali while choking Zara with minimal military to slow him up. I've badly hampered his ability to work improved tiles in any but 2 of his cities, so it should keep him out of contention.

Since I have Jumbos, it's probably going to be a catapult/axe/jumbo push to take all of the NW forcibly after blocking MM a bit. Sury is pretty peace when in your religion so having a super zealot on my border in my religion sounds convenient (and potentially lucrative :p).

Mon/Epic to 950 BC



Not too much, settled 1SW and have 4 cities(including London). One to get corn+copper, one to get cows copper+ivory, and last to grab almost every single dye+gem.

Emp/Epic to 500 AD:


950 Founded confucianism - courthouse powered expansion/conquest is going to be fun. Construction/HBR are priority techs now.
825 Confucianism spread to Sury. Hahahaha.
470 Skirmishing with Zara and his archers/chariots is inconclusive. Of course, he still hasn't improved the iron in his territory, and I doubt he's teched well. I settle a 4th city in the junble for cow/banana/rice/sugar.
230 Starting to whip some cats.
215 Fighting in my territory (which I largely emerged from victorious) granted me a GG. I made a medic III axe.
125 Zara finally gets rid of my last choking axe - he can hook up iron now.
80 Whipping some stable/elephant, more cats.
65 Met gilgamesh. He has a lot of cities. Good thing he's far.
85 I give Sury Col for archery, sailing, and war with Zara. This will let me take a few of Zara's cities then force him to give me monarchy, then declare on him later to end him.
130 Sury switches to buddhism. I decide to mimic this, having captured a buddhist city off of zara just now!
505 AD forces are bombarding Aksum. Zara has one other lightly defended city. I'm teching a rather average 78 BPT but hold a tech lead on all but MM. Since the whole world is buddhist except for hindu MM and jewish Gilgamesh, and MM is the only person with theology, it's probably that MM builds the AP. This would be great for me, as after I settle my surrounding lands for like 15+ cities I'd instantly just overrun him with elephant/cat/axe and take it. Sury is friendly and would vote me to win. I'd like an easy ending like that

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/NC%20Liz%20II/505adaksumsiege0000.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/NC%20Liz%20II/505tech0000.jpg

Emp/epic

to 1200 AD


565 - Aksum is mine
685 Zara is no more. Time for a settling spree since I captured some workers. I will also whip up more forces for MM.
860 MM circumnavigated the globe, eh. Ah yeah. One thing people forget about conquesting is the resources. I'm currently selling 3 resources for 24 GPT. That's as much as many shrines will give you, especially at this point in the game. Don't forget to do this...Also good for me is that BOTH france AND khmer are friendly.
930 Gilgamesh created a Ghandi colony in Confucianism.......?
940 Met Hammy. Backwards...although I'm only at parity I also have 12 cities.
980 Roosevelt, colony of France.
1030 MM built the AP :p. I kill him off, I win, although running hindu guys around in caravels may be a little annoying.
1050 I have guilds, which means unless MM gets cuirassers, I can take whatever he can make. #'s advantage = ME!
1120 I declare on the tech-leading MM. He's almost to liberalism, but of course doesn't even have guilds. Or power. Or any hammer improvements. Or (great for me) friends. Sury has too much on his hands also :(. I have to hurry or Sury might vassal this sucker.
1130 MM bribed hammy to war with me. To bad for MM that his "ally" needs to sail across the world through my allies. In galleys.
1140 I lose 1 cat to take Awdaghost. Ha.
1150 MM takes DR off of lib. Jihad, MM?
1170 Knew it. Sury declares on MM.
1190 2 cats and Kumba Saleh is mine. What am I using? A GG mace, a gg healer mace, a bunch of elephants, a couple knights, and catapults...although soon I'll start making trebs because I almost have engineering. MM is mostly defending with longbows.
1200 Move forces into Kumba Saleh to heal - shouldn't take long.

Yeah...so MM is going to die. From there I can just spread religion and win or tech to infantry, shred the gilgamesh continent, and take domination. AP seems to be less effort, so that's the pick.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/NC%20Liz%20II/1120waronmm0000.jpg

Emp/Epic

To 1600 AD

..................................

Just kidding. The game ends in 1565 ;).


War continues. I'm having aksum build some galleys/triremes to cross over and wipe MM out completely. Two more cities are pumping buddhist/hindu missionaries exclusively. The rest have long since whipped forges and barracks and courthouses and are contributing to the war effort. MM techs well but is a pushover at parity. Onward...

1220 Sury captures a city. I bribe him out of the war with MM for both guilds and engineering. What do I care? Sury is my super ally...and I don't need my AP being vassaled to that.
1260 3 cats and nothing else lost to kill about 10 units and capture timbuktu's AP. Yes! Hindu shrine is worth 26 GPT once the city comes out of revolt.
1265 MM will capitulate but that would be a poor move on my part - i don't want his diplo averaged with min.
1285 Hammy gives me a little gold for peace.
1295 Gao falls.
1360 I take Djenne
1430 I take MM's last continental city and gear up for an excursion to his 4 city island.
1515 Sury declares on MM again and takes one of his last 2 cities. I don't mind this time Sury...have at what's left of him :p.
1525 I take MM's last city. I have everything I need for the AP win now except Roosy and Gandhi having the religion (I don't have 75% of votes by myself, but sury/louis voting me will give me over 90%). I have open borders with both ;).
1550 Hindu to ghandi
1555 Hindu to Roosy
1565 I win via AP diplo

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/NC%20Liz%20II/1565APwin0000.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/NC%20Liz%20II/infoscreen0000.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/NC%20Liz%20II/score0000.jpg

After reading the last Nobles Challange I decided I would really like to try this.
I'm a Noble level player. Well maybe Warlord now that the AI has improved.
Thing is, I still play as if I'm on Settler level. Not much in the way of strategies.

I will be playing Noble/marathon.

I already have a question about my start.

My start put my warrior 2S,1W of my settler. There is a goody hut 1W of him. Should I pop it before settling?

I already have a question about my start.

My start put my warrior 2S,1W of my settler. There is a goody hut 1W of him. Should I pop it before settling?


No. You don't get techs from huts if you haven't settled yet. If you want the chance of popping a tech, settle 1st

Just kidding. The game ends in 1565 ;).

You finished before I even started :lol:

Played to 900BC things seem to be going okay although I could have settled more cities!

Update - Monarch/Epic - 900BC (incl dotmap)

Luckily my warrior started to the east of the settler revealing Gold & 4 Floodplains. Decided to settle 1 east losing cow & a turn but gaining 2 floodplains.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXII_Groo000.jpg

Tech path was, Aggriculture > Bronze > Animal Husb > Wheel > Pottery > Mysticism > Writing > Alpha > Currency (9 turns left).

I was pretty lucky with huts popping 6 in total, popped Sailing, 70gold, 93gold, warrior, hostile village & another warrior. I ended up with a bunch of warriors :rolleyes: including the few I built.

It looks like we have the market cornered in copper with three sources close to the capital.

My first city grabbed copper & corn to the southwest, 2nd city was founded to the Northwest which should force Zara to settle the lovely tundra to the North :lol:, and a 3rd city was settled directly south of the capital to grab Rice, Banana & some nice riverside grassland tiles.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXII_Groo001.jpg

Plan from here on in is to just try and grab as many southern spots in the jungle as possible, heres a dot map for settling the south.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXII_Groo002.jpg

Thats it for now!

Noble/normal

This does not appear to be the most propitious of placements for a capital city, but no alternative site well recommends itself to me. The notional scheme is BW and some warriors for walkabouts.

Count me in... Noble/Epic

I made a start, then realised that I had forgotten to change the speed from Normal to Epic.

This is my start, and due to forests, I settled in place and hoped the game would reveal a helpful square or two.
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8506/startda1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/3718/start2ss4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Lots of hammers...


My thoughts:
I have started a worker (23 turns) and Agriculture research aiming for AH.
Depending on how much faster the worker will be once the BFC expands, I may research hunting before AH, because I think it will reduce the beaker cost.

I will explore in a rough circle around London, but I am hoping that there is coast to the East.

After AH I will go for BW.
Agri - (hunting?) - AH - BW Wheel
Worker - Warrior - Scout/Warrior - Settler.

I am off out for a while (gym) and hope to play to 1000BC later this evening.

edit: Just looked at the Krick19's start and it looks like we all get the same start...
Silly me assumed it would be randomised. My Start pictures are now unnecessary.

1000 BC debriefing

It might be counted as a good sign, or two-city hubris, that I am not yet seeking advice from the community.

Settling in place dictated York on the eastern copper so as not to waste a flood plain tile. As is my wont, if not addiction, the Great Wall was built in London. The four walkabout warriors brought in more than 250 Gold; have explored a lot of land meeting Zara Yaqob, Mansa Musa, Suryavarman II, Louis XIV while unusually remaining alive. The tech path was iffy. BW, Masonry, Agriculture, AH, Wheel, Mysticism (to expand York), Sailing, Pottery, IW, Hunting, Meditation. Leading in score the English Empire is really rather average.
The future? Well now, a southern expansion from York and an Iron city in the far west (working on both) seem rational, but The Oracle is a Siren song. With the GW and elephants I'm not too concerned about the badly placed horses.

Making haste slowly, is the current byword.

Played a few more turns... currently @ 625 AD, things are going okay but I think I've got stuck into peaceful builder mode!

Previous reports
Update - Monarch Epic - 900BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7246460&postcount=18)

Update Monarch/Epic 625AD

My tech path this round went... Currency > Code of Laws > Maths > Calender > Civilservice > Philosophy (bulbed) > Construction > Metal Casting > Machinery.

As you can see I got a little side tracked going through some military techs rather than staying on the education > Libralism path :crazyeye:. I was planning a war against Zara with cats/maces but I don't think its really on after all, so it will have to wait until Red Coats.

I managed to grab all the southern sites I wanted allthough I'm feeling the pressure from sury (creative Git :mad:) so desperatley need culture in a couple of my cities.

I feel I've lost focus a bit with this game, Were philosophical and I don't even have a dedicated GP farm Just yet :rolleyes:, managed to grab a spot in the south with 2x Clam 1x Grassland Cow which will have to do for now. Guess I just got mesmerised by all the gems & Dye in the south!:drool:

My empire

The North

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXII_Groo101.jpg


The South

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXII_Groo102.jpg


Cities

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXII_Groo103.jpg


Techs

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXII_Groo104.jpg


Power

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXII_Groo105.jpg

@ Groog:



You're definitely in "builder mode" :p. All of your cities are producing buildings! There's nothing wrong with this per se', but if you wanted an early war on someone you should have gone for elephants since you have them! Redcoats would work just fine too ;). It is kind of funny though - at the point in time where you are in my game, all cities were either producing military or recently captured so making forge/courthouse/barracks so that they could do so, with the exception of one city I think :p. You're in good shape though so whatever works!

@ TMIT

Yeah, I definatley got stuck in builder mode, I have 8 cities and only 1 of them is dedicated to building military :crazyeye:! The rest are all being cottaged up! I've definatley decided to go to war when rifling kicks in gives me time to get another military city up and running and build plenty of City Raiders for up grading.

540 AD debriefing

On balance, the developments have been favourable and the English have a short-term plan.

The Iron city was built in the NW (although it is under some cultural pressure, and an elephant/copper city and a gems/dye city in the SE. The added techs were priesthood, polytheism, writing, alphabet, mathematics, construstion, aesthetics (for the Statue of Zeus in London) and HBR. The English have a modest tech lead without great trade availability. Eight workers are rebuilding the economy and currency is but a turn away.
The strategic appreciation is two-fold. The four neighbours have four different religions while the English have none so there is a great deal of free-floating annoyance directed every where but at London. The closest and weakest neighbour, Zara Yaqob, has no strategic resource other than horses. So I will eschew adopting a religion, build catapults and elephants, then liberate some Ethiopian cities.

A plan is a positive thing.

Monarch/Normal to 25BC



Settled in place. Despite TMIT advice i built wonders!!
worker>Worker-chopped>S/H-chopped>Settler>Axe * 6.

Teched BW first then headed off to writing and Priesthood.

Zara has been a lazy boy, my 6 axemen on his borders, he has 2 warriors protecting the Greatwall. Take a look what he completed the turn before hostilies commenced.

http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo214/KingMorgan1/NC-1-Zara0000.jpg

A swift invasion of the 2nd city and Zara was spearing elephants in the next world.

http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo214/KingMorgan1/NC-2-Zara0000.jpg

Oracle was completed, CoL was taken for Confu, although i'm not going to run it. Raised a ba ba city on my southern borders, settled 3S of cap. Ruins should give +beakers event at some point.

http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo214/KingMorgan1/NC-3-World0000.jpg

Need to explore the rest of the continet, possibly Mansa has blocked off the rest of AI, going to REX with a vengence. Courthouse and librabry has been a popular build, Zara ex Cap will be a GP farm with NE, it has a powerful build potenial too. other city is rough but will pay for it's self as the GLig was captured.

Capital View

http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo214/KingMorgan1/NC-4-Cap0000.jpg

Will REX for the mo till more map is uncovered.



To 1020AD


As planned the REX and exploration occured.

Mansa is on his own in the SW corner, Loius is hidden behind Surey and i'm not sure where Gilamesh is, islands or behind Loius i guess.

Despite some doubters, (not looking at TMIT) :lol:

Built, SoZ - have the event, TGL - have the event, Patha good for the Nat Epic, soon to start the Awatt.

I hve expanded.

http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo214/KingMorgan1/NC-5-World0000.jpg

Loius decided to go for an annoying DOW on Mansa, then decided i was fair game :rolleyes: idiot. He has slowed the mighty REX and allowed his annoying Budist Sury to STEAL MY LAND. He has taken on of Mansa cities just below me.

http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo214/KingMorgan1/NC-6-Middle0000.jpg

Stupid computer put Taosim in my weakest city in the middle of all the troubles, still double gems. Soon a Fpalace in coventry to keep down maintaince of my soon to be captured empire.

I have a huge tech lead as should be expected.

http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo214/KingMorgan1/NC-6-Middle0000.jpg

One glance screen for you trainspotters!!

http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo214/KingMorgan1/NC-7-Glance0000.jpg

New plan is to pal up to Mansa, i have peace with Louis, and many catputs in build queues. Few spare Axes that weren't needed in the phoney war. I have a ruins event on MCasting so will head to Mach and upgrade Axes to Maces, tech to Enginnering. Sury has the Mids so will swing by to liberate them, then continue to Frog lands for some vengence.



188759

To 1938AD


1220 - GS from farm, adcademy - GM arrives Mansa cap 1600 gold (ToA)
1230 - Loius DOw on me. I upgrade 9 axes to mace.
1320 - loius peace, has lost Gao to me. AP demand peace. Bulb ED to finish.
1330 - Relise i could have defied AP stop war as only 1 city is buddist. :lol:
1370 - Bulb part PP
1470- GS Adcadmey london
1535 - Upgrade rest of axes to Redcoats. I take Rifling with Lib.
http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo214/KingMorgan1/NC-1b-Lib0000.jpg
1575 - AP demands peace with Loius.

Safe in the knolwlege i have 10 turns of peace with Louis, i declare war on Sury.
http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo214/KingMorgan1/NC-1b-Stack0000.jpg

I had been building trebs!!

Hamms demands AP peace. Too lazy to march over there and raise the AP.

http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo214/KingMorgan1/NC-1b-Sury-Peace-AP0000.jpg

Peace sury, redclare on Louis, take 2 cities.

AP peace again!! Vassalize Sury around 1830's

Louis culture flips one of Surys ex cities. Time to declare on Louis.

http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo214/KingMorgan1/NC-1b-Louis10000.jpg

Upgraded to Infantry, Cannons etc.

Vassalize Louis, he was a vassal of Gila, sadly his master didn;t protect him, his lonbows and the odd musket weren;t up to the job.

Lost my large tech lead, take peace with Hamm,Gila,Hastp.

http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo214/KingMorgan1/NC-1b-Conti0000.jpg

I own the contient. Manas recongises my Empire and for a 2nd time offers as a vassal, Gila hates him. I refuse then relant a few turns later. I tech to Mass Media, hammi has taken most of the radio wonders. I take effial and the important Christo. (After building Christo i didn;t change civics, such a waste) Build UN, ifail to realise that Mansa is 2nd highest in pop, major miscalc. i now fail a Diplo victory in 1870's. I tech for Computers. I build Internet, aquire 3 techs, another 2 before the end. Head for space. Tune 6 best cities, build SS to 3 turns till launch. Then out of the blue

http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo214/KingMorgan1/NC-1b-Diplo0000.jpg

Gilga had decided his pal Hammi was for the chop, he vassalizes hammi, Now Gila is 2nd in pop. i win as mansa has to vote for me.

Ironicaly i get the victory i planned for 50 turns ago.

@ Kingmorgan



Of course you don't have to follow my advice :p. The reason I gave it, though, was that there is +3 :) worth of resources to be claimed early on - gold in BFC, nearby ivory, and gems to the south (which you don't have yet). Gems were my 3rd city, although I did some very abusive axe-locking on Zara (Dow early with a warrior at first, and just park axes in his territory forcing him to spam units and work unimproved tiles for extended periods). Just as an example, I DIDN'T oracle CoL, but had it in 950 BC. Working gold and 2x gems was a big part of that tech speed - and it also powered me to construction by around 100 BC which was very important to my military throughout the game.

Still, you denied an AI those wonders and everything has a cost/benefit to it. Hopefully you at least see the reason for my (not quite expert) advice though ;)!

Havn't played anymore turns as of yet but looking at my game again I have a few questions about going forward

The details on the spoiler are based on my last update Update - Monarch Epic - 625 AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7249467&postcount=22)

Planning ahead and looking to my first war I'm actually thinking of getting cannons before redcoats, I can get steel a lot earlier than rifling and will probably attack Zara with Cannons/Maces. I know redcoats are awesome but they are just standard rifles until matched against other gunpowder units where they get there bonus.

So am I being crazy thinking of going steel first? I've never gone for cannons with lib always rifles and just fancy trying things differently.

Also regarding civics and whipping. I'll have education soon and to be honest most of my cities still don't have courthouses! I'm planning to switch to slavery for just to whip uni's & courts then switch back to cast. Is it worth the 2 turns of anarchy? Normally once I switch to cast I stay there. I still havn't used my one GP goldenage yet but I'm saving him for a mass unit buildup/upgrade gold type of situation.

Thanks :)

@ groog:

Cannons will help you a lot as long as you're sure you won't be tech-matched by zara and run into massed cuirassers. Probably not. As you mentioned, redcoats are just rifles vs longbows so CR cannons might be nicer. IMO you can go either way with it but if you wanna do cannons do cannons for something different :p.

As for caste vs slavery I usually stay in slavery till emancipation if not spiritual so it's not something I'm familiar with. If it gets you courthouses/oxford quickly and you need the tech power go for it. Actually, you may wish to use slavery to actually produce the cannons too, since you can't draft them! The longer you wait to use a military edge, the shorter/weaker that edge is after all. You could go the guilds/caste/workshop route also though, but if you do that set it up ASAP so that you can really churn out cannons once you get there.

Believe it or not, despite warring/whipping all game I was running cottages in virtually every city :p, with the exception of the good hammer sites.

1200 AD debriefing

Plan 540 proved to have some merit. The principal failure to date has been making only passive use of the philisopical trait.
The Ethiopians only had six chariots, perhaps a dozen catapults and a whack of archers. Five cities have fallen and one of the last three should quite soon be acquired. England remained religion-free but in 940 AD Louis XIV converted from Judaism to Suryavarman II's Hinduism which suggests the source of the first French religion was close off-shore to the east. Team Hindu is a friendly pair annoyed at Mansa Musa. Trouble brewing?
The economy is not too bad but my tech lead has erroded so I think I'll try for banking in 17 (?) turns, then look at Liberalism, rifling or steel. As to matters military I'll take the two remaining enemy cities on the land mass and dither a bit about the one across the channel from Aksum as there are no English ships. The next war? First I'll commission a couple of horse archers for a continental "good will" tour. I have engineering , may trade for civil service, build a formidable field force in the SE and play the opportunist.
So, now, the English have more of a platform for action than a plan. A religion can be adopted when necessary and there are two Great Artists available for emergency use.

Ok, I'm officailly a complete idiot!!! :blush:

mini update - Monarch/Epic - 1300 AD

Decided to aim for steel with libralism and wipe out Zara with cannons, been building lots of CR2 maces & trebs, I have a GP ready to spark a goldenage for wartime civics switch, whipping up cannons & upgrade gold, Libralism comes in, Grab steel, and.....

I don't have any Iron do I! :blush: :lol:

Really its :smoke: moves like this that keep me stuck at prince :crazyeye:

@Groo
No, it is not that kind of error that keeps you in prince :p ( i've made it in Emperor :blush: )

Well, it might be some iron for sale ..... :p

Ok, I'm officailly a complete idiot!!! :blush:

mini update - Monarch/Epic - 1300 AD

Decided to aim for steel with libralism and wipe out Zara with cannons, been building lots of CR2 maces & trebs, I have a GP ready to spark a goldenage for wartime civics switch, whipping up cannons & upgrade gold, Libralism comes in, Grab steel, and.....

I don't have any Iron do I! :blush: :lol:

Really its :smoke: moves like this that keep me stuck at prince :crazyeye:

Yikes, my bad. I forgot the Iron I had came from Zara :lol:. I was running around with knights and just assumed you'd have the iron for cannons without even thinking about where I got mine - his cities. As rolo suggests, you may wish to attempt a trade, especially if you have a nice religious friend. Otherwise, tech grenadiers, use them + trebs to capture iron, then upgrade to cannons from city capture money + whatever you can drum up...cannon upgrades aren't super expensive from trebs.

Okay so maybe its not so bad after all.

Grenadiers... Hmmm... Not a bad idea I think I'll roll with that, military science is only 9 turns away. Thanks! :)

I can't believe I forgot I didn't have Iron :blush: just took it for granted really!

@ Kingmorgan



Of course you don't have to follow my advice :p. The reason I gave it, though, was that there is +3 :) worth of resources to be claimed early on - gold in BFC, nearby ivory, and gems to the south (which you don't have yet). Gems were my 3rd city, although I did some very abusive axe-locking on Zara (Dow early with a warrior at first, and just park axes in his territory forcing him to spam units and work unimproved tiles for extended periods). Just as an example, I DIDN'T oracle CoL, but had it in 950 BC. Working gold and 2x gems was a big part of that tech speed - and it also powered me to construction by around 100 BC which was very important to my military throughout the game.

Still, you denied an AI those wonders and everything has a cost/benefit to it. Hopefully you at least see the reason for my (not quite expert) advice though ;)!

@TMIT


Only a little joke with you. Had i been a Noble level player i would have followed your advice, it was the right advice. I'll always take wonders just for culture/denial/usefulness. In this case SH saves building/whipping moments, which is a clear advatage. On the map the 3rd border pop was required to take the copper, without it you have to wait for the settler to be built, tech the wheel, connect the 2nd city (or mine, if you didn't settle the coppper). Personally i think stonehenge is a must if your not creative or deity.

Just read your write up, very surpised you didn;t axe rush Zara. In this save does AI start with Archery on Emp? Or did you not get copper connected in time?

Okay so maybe its not so bad after all.

Actually maybe it is that bad! :lol:

Things have gone a bit screwy in my game, played up till 1500AD and I'm about to retire. :(

After my mistake with the Iron I went for Military science for Grenadiers instead. Built a huge stack of Trebs/Grens prepared to Declare on Zara... and Sury declares on me.

It takes my stack 6 turns to get to the Sury frontline, I had to aggresivley whip all my commerce cities TWICE! in the south to repel Sury until the rest of my troops arrived. Fought sury, eventually taking most of his cities, but... neglected my border with Zara.

Sury became a vassel to Zara, Zara Dow'd me and began picking off my lightly defended cities in the North! I had to whip all my commerce cities in the North but didn't really help much. All my troops were in Surys lands about 12 turns away!!!

I'm retiring because I've whipped the hell out of my cottage cities and really destroyed my economy keeping too many of Sury's cities, I'm starting to fall behind in tech except for military techs, problem is I can't produce enough troops to take advantage of it!

Really didn't have enough production cities in this game for war.

Ouch groo.

Anyways I need some help.

I'm doing pretty well, but I'm still a bit behind in tech, and way behind in power. I don't have much time to write a report, but if someone could look at my save and give me a few pointers, that would be great.


1540 AD save below.

I can do it, but probably not today - I just got home after doing school/work for 12 hours straight (although I'm clearly a forum presence at work ;) )...so I'll hold off on analyzing saves.

That's a shame groo - diplomacy is one of the keys to this game at all levels:



I mentioned it in my "tip to beginners" but of course couldn't spoil anything there ("choose religions carefully to avoid nasty surprises"). Sury is a dangerous, dangerous zealot if not in his religion, which prompted both my immediate attempt to spread it to him, and then when he adopted buddhism like louis I followed him over. Sury is hell when not in your religion, but one of your best friends when he is (comparable to sal, izzy, zara, and all other zealots). His favorite civic is OR, which I was also in all game for this reason! This was important because if I didn't do it, I'd have been toast before 200 AD with all the zara warring I was doing :p.

You're on pace to winning on monarch - you had the regular empire management pieces in place here, even with a blunder in terms of resources (which I apologize for not noticing). A little bit more diplomacy would have seen surprise DoWs being nearly impossible - friendly AIs won't take your enemies as "peaceful" vassals because that means a DoW! Other than that, you did well. Note that you out-teched me all game on a lower difficulty level, which means you had more than enough tech power to win militarily! I didn't have rifling, liberalism, chemistry, or even MT at the end of my game (I think I traded astro for a lot of stuff last second, including PP to make my beakers look cool there). Granted, this is somewhat the consequence of warring all game, but still! Don't give up, you have Monarch in your grasp, and you're very close! First one is always the hardest...get it in NC XIII :)

Edit: Never mind I lied Krick. My thoughts:


Shame that Zara got the AP in your religion, you won't be cheesing out like I did :p.

I'd have placed hastings for more food...

Canterbury/warwick seem to be working unimproved tiles, so be sure to improve those ASAP. Merchants IMO are not efficient in warwick, while coventry seems to be functioning well as a GP farm.

Merc is good since you have a vassal - you're not feeling much negative effect from it like you might otherwise especially since you only have 2 routes/city atm.

I have to hate on caste here - I don't see how it's helping you at all relative to slavery. You're working maybe 1-3 workshops empire wide, and other than that it's only seeing use in your GP farm, but I don't see a bulbing strategy that merits holding down only scientists, so you may wish to convert to slavery. IMO you want free speech ASAP also - it will help you a lot more than B. at this point.

Since you got the mids (which I admittedly shake my head at somewhat for no industrious/stone), you do have another option here - get stock exchanges up and rush buy like crazy once you hit rifling. You have some distance on the AIs on the rifling race. IMO you can go that route, or consider using nationalism and drafting, which will probably require more culture infrastructure...your pick if you wish to use a redcoat war.

IMO if you're quick you can redcoat both zara and MM to death. Your power is ok if not a little scattered. I'd prioritize either siege now or CR maces for upgrades, no need for muskets.

Overall you're doing pretty good - IMO you can win this and have a reasonably certain path toward doing so if you play your cards correctly. Do keep an eye on french culture, although he seems a long ways off atm.

@TMIT

diplomacy is one of the keys to this game at all levels

Agreed :mischief: funny though when I'm playing a peaceful culture or space win I have no problems with Diplo as soon as I throw war into the picture it all goes wrong. I got too sidetracked into one thing with this game and lose focus on the other aspects.


Sury is a dangerous, dangerous zealot if not in his religion, which prompted both my immediate attempt to spread it to him, and then when he adopted buddhism like louis I followed him over.

Yeah, this was actually a tricky one in my game, Sury was hindu, the only hindu in the game so I opted for buddism along with Zara & Mansa. Zara swapped out when he founded the Jewish faith. Really should have thought about possibly swapping to free religion after lib.


even with a blunder in terms of resources (which I apologize for not noticing).

While I'd like to blame you :p that was totally my fault, all credit goes to me on that one :blush:, no need to apologize. I really appreciate the tips you've been giving me, thanks. :)

Thinking about it again, after sury Dow'd I shouldn't have decided to take his lands instead of Zara's (Sury's lands were mostly quiet nasty) should have just defended sued for peace and then moved on to Zara.

I may replay this from just before the Sury DoW to see how I could do things better.

Thanks again for the advice :)

Update:

I haven't had a chance to play at all since Monday's start - I have barely had time to check my emails. I do have an evening free tonight and will make my first moves then.

I have been able to log into this thread from work, the temptation to look at the spoilers is really high, but I have managed to resist so far. I'd only be cheating myself anyway, but I'd still like to try this 'on my own'.

AR

Haha TMIT


I'm such a noob at monarch, I generally just try to survive and get lots of land. All your advice will be great in totally streamlining and make my game stronger.

Haha TMIT


I'm such a noob at monarch, I generally just try to survive and get lots of land. All your advice will be great in totally streamlining and make my game stronger.



You should probably have more baracks. You got lots of unimproved units that has been produced in cites witout baracks. I am curious why so many longbows in all your cites it looks almost like AI. -30 units upkeep feals like allot. It might be just my personality but I build army have hight maintance attack enemy maintance go down make peace and repeat.

You should probably have more baracks. You got lots of unimproved units that has been produced in cites witout baracks. I am curious why so many longbows in all your cites it looks almost like AI. -30 units upkeep feals like allot. It might be just my personality but I build army have hight maintance attack enemy maintance go down make peace and repeat.


Yeah, that's a major problem. I never get the "perfect" production city I want and I never know what to settle for. So I build barracks haphazardly. I built a lot of longbows cuz I wasn't sure if I wanted to go on the offensive, but I knew I might be on the defensive.

I have now played to 950 BC

Turn report (edited)

Logging by BUG Mod 1.0 (BUG Mod 3.0) (BtS 3.17)
------------------------------------------------
[b]Turn 0/750 (4000 BC)
London founded
London begins: Worker (23 turns)
Research begun: Agriculture (12 Turns)

Turn 3/750 (3925 BC)
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): The Wheel
Tribal village results: technology

Turn 7/750 (3825 BC)
London's borders expand
Contact made: Ethiopian Empire
Tribal village results: scout

Turn 12/750 (3700 BC)
Research begun: Animal Husbandry (15 Turns)

Turn 18/750 (3550 BC)
Contact made: French Empire

Turn 23/750 (3425 BC)
London begins: Warrior (22 turns)

Turn 25/750 (3375 BC)
Hinduism founded in a distant land

Turn 27/750 (3325 BC)
Research begun: Bronze Working (18 Turns)

Turn 29/750 (3275 BC)
Contact made: Khmer Empire

Turn 30/750 (3250 BC)
Buddhism founded in a distant land

Turn 31/750 (3225 BC)
State Religion Change: Zara Yaqob(Ethiopia) from 'no State Religion' to 'Buddhism'

Turn 32/750 (3200 BC)
Contact made: Malinese Empire
A Pasture was built near London (Cows)

Turn 35/750 (3125 BC)
London begins: Barracks (19 turns)

Turn 44/750 (2900 BC)
A Mine was built near London (Gold)
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Bronze Working

Turn 45/750 (2875 BC)
Research begun: Mysticism (83 Turns)
London begins: Settler (150 turns)
Civics Change: NC XII(England) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 50/750 (2750 BC)
Research begun: Pottery (6 Turns)

Turn 56/750 (2600 BC)
Research begun: Hunting (3 Turns)

Turn 57/750 (2575 BC)
The whip was applied in London
London finishes: Settler

Turn 58/750 (2550 BC)
London finishes: Barracks

Turn 59/750 (2525 BC)
London begins: Warrior (6 turns)

Turn 60/750 (2500 BC)
Research begun: Archery (9 Turns)
A Mine was built near London

Turn 62/750 (2450 BC)
York founded
York begins: Monument (45 turns)

Turn 65/750 (2375 BC)
London grows to size 3

Turn 68/750 (2300 BC)
Research begun: Masonry (9 Turns)

Turn 69/750 (2275 BC)
A Cottage was built near London
London begins: Worker (10 turns)

Turn 70/750 (2250 BC)
Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Louis XIV(France) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 74/750 (2150 BC)
Research begun: Writing (7 Turns)
After End Turn:
The whip was applied in London
The whip was applied in York
London finishes: Worker
York finishes: Monument

Turn 75/750 (2125 BC)
London begins: Granary (23 turns)
York begins: Work Boat (45 turns)

Turn 78/750 (2050 BC)
A Mine was built near York (copper)

Turn 81/750 (1975 BC)
Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Suryavarman II(Khmer) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 82/750 (1950 BC)
A Camp was built near York (heffalumps)

Turn 83/750 (1925 BC)
Research begun: Sailing (7 Turns)
A Hamlet was built near London

Turn 88/750 (1800 BC) [18-Sep-2008 21:53:31]
London finishes: Granary

Turn 89/750 (1775 BC)
London begins: Axeman (13 turns)
Research begun: Mathematics (20 Turns)

Turn 93/750 (1675 BC)
Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Zara Yaqob(Ethiopia) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 98/750 (1550 BC)
Axeman 1 of London (Axeman) promoted: City Raider I
London begins: Settler (15 turns)

Turn 104/750 (1400 BC)
Research begun: Iron Working (9 Turns)
London begins: Axeman (8 turns)
After End Turn:
The whip was applied in London
London finishes: Settler
Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 106/750 (1350 BC)
York begins: Granary (18 turns)

Turn 107/750 (1325 BC)
Axeman 2 of London (Axeman) promoted: Woodsman I
London begins: Library (34 turns)

Turn 114/750 (1150 BC)
Research begun: Construction (53 Turns)

Turn 115/750 (1125 BC)
After End Turn:
A Village was built near London

Turn 118/750 (1050 BC)
London begins: Worker (9 turns)
Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Zara Yaqob(Ethiopia) towards NC XII(England), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Game Report to 1000 BC
The early Warrior and Scout (from the hut) were both killed in the wild so I haven't explored too far, but I've found everyone except the French...

I have a 3rd town two moves from settlement - going for the Iron to the west.
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6840/settler2ub2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Everyone is annoyed with Mansa in the S - The French have asked me to stop trading with him - but I only have OB and refused.
I can't have the Elizabeth listening to a Frenchman...

I have had 3 events - rats, slave revolts and we discoved a special axe. All Axemen get Shock(?) + 25% vs Melee, which is nice.

The French built Stonehenge and the Ethiopians The Great Wall.

I am not sure where to place the 4th and 5th cities?
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/2973/nextcitync4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Any advice?

AR

Edit

put 2nd spoilers in.

Sorry, I assumed I was the last one playing. All the other posters seems a lot further into the game than me. I'll spoiler everything in future just in case.

Any advice?

How about put your game write up in a spoiler box :p wouldn't want to spoil it for other players.

Concerning future city placements, I'm playing through my second attempt at the moment so it might not be best to follow my dotmaps! :mischief: I've played to 410 BC, my dotmap and some details are in the spoiler below incase you want to compare regarding 4th & 5th cities.

WIth settling the south I guess it depends on how far your willing to go! I decided on this run through to settle as deep towards the other AI as possible, heres a crude dotmap... I hate the strategy layer! Hastings and coventry were my 4th and 5th cities.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo100.jpg

Anomander:

Please put your reports in spoilers. We don't want to ruin the game for others by posting leaders and such :)

Just as a note to all players, both barracks and walls add to power rating, which means they're viable in the power respect and they don't cost maintenance. Although I don't rate them the same as granary/courthouse in terms of "buildings that go in every city", I often put barracks in the majority if not all of my cities. This allows for FAST massing of troops through the whip/draft times (and rush buy if you're like me), and also keeps shaka and monty off your back in the BC's. Even Snaaty advocates early barracks in his "guide to emperor+", so this isn't just coming from me ;).

Walls are less useful than barracks game-long but they're worth noting for this purpose, especially if you have stone and want to abuse some hammer overflow for gold. Since the AIs have a fixation with *very* slowly bombarding walls down with its 2-3 catapults, they can buy you some time too, or if you flank/kill that siege, you can watch the AI suicide into them. Far less typical/useful than barracks, but still good to keep in mind.

And barracks also give :) under certain civics :p

Walls are must for Border cities, as said the AI loves to have a bombard, even if they could just roll into a poorly defended city.

@TMIT


Just read your write up, very surpised you didn;t axe rush Zara. In this save does AI start with Archery on Emp? Or did you not get copper connected in time?

Walls are must for Border cities, as said the AI loves to have a bombard, even if they could just roll into a poorly defended city.


I disagree. Walls can be useful in some cases, as with celts for instance as the UB and for spain as it leads to citadels. But, in most cases, I skip the walls. Even if it's not many hammers in a wall, the hammers is better used for other things.

The best defense is as always to never let the AI get so close so the walls will come to play. How to manage this in border cities? Fast moving task force behind the line, offensive troops and siege units amongst the defenders in border cities.

And do aim at building up culture in border cities, the cultural defense last all game, the walls defensive power is obsolete when gunpowder arrives. So to sum things up, cultural defense is better, offensive troops to counter AI attacks. Only build walls when in great need and the the whip is your friend, or if you want the castle for some reason, like the spypoints or traderoutes.

Best defense is attacking the enemy and owning them :D

I kinda got carried away with my second attempt and played right through to 800AD

So here's my report, things are going rather well this time round. :)

2nd Attempt - Monarch/Epic - 800AD

My opening strategy this time round was to settle to cities close to the capital towards Zara as early as possible and use them alomg with my capital to pump out settlers/workers/axes. I also made a point of deviating from the Alpha > Currency > Col > CS route picking up Iron working before rexing stalled my research. Just finished teching Civilservice and I'm on my way to paper.

The tech situation is looking good...

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo101.jpg


I aggresivley rexed the southern jungle peacefully settling 10 cities and still have space within my borders for a couple more. Economy dived for a long time but things are looking okay now.

The British Empire

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo102.jpg


And my cities, beaker output doesn't seem so great for this stage of the game, but enough to hold onto a lead over the AI.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo103.jpg


I also made the decision to plan my first war a lot earlier using the resources around me this time rather than ones I didn't have! :lol: So I will be attacking Zara with Ellies/Cats/Axes. I'm looking good on power with positive ratings against all my neighbours.


I've built up a nice little stack and have another mini stack almost ready.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo104.jpg


My crude battle plan!!! Which is actually probably more confusing than anything else! :crazyeye:

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo105.jpg

Plan to take Lalbela then Gondar, then a second stack will raze Yeha while my mian stack heals. The combined stack then marches on to Aksum.


Religion is interesting, with all the civs I've met devided between Hinduism or Buddism. I'm planning the turn before attacking Zara switching to Buddism to keep Louis, Sury & Gilga happy. Both mansa & Zara are hindu's. Mansa's looking quite pathetic in my game and will probably be my next target after Zara.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo106.jpg


I did wonder about attcking Mansa first he's so weak! But my gur feeling is take out Zara before he gets longbows plus his cities are closer to my capital and shouldn't hurt my economy too much.

Phew... Thats it for now, I definatley have used my previous knowledge to play the game out better this time :mischief: but its a great way to learn what works at this level. I've never rexed so far and so hard in my games, I actually dropped right down to 10% slider for a while but I'm in such a strong position now, only I could mess it up!

:lol:


If anyone has any feedback on my current plan, or just thinks I'm missing a trick, let me know.

I disagree. Walls can be useful in some cases, as with celts for instance as the UB and for spain as it leads to citadels. But, in most cases, I skip the walls.

I agree, i've only ever built about 5 walls, but for a noble/price player i think they are essential. If nothing else they will buy you time with an AI stack outside your city, walls could give you 3+ turns to bolster your defence. Unless i am running HR then i'll usually have one or two defenders in a city. Partly because the AI is so predictable, you can pretty much bank on it attacking a specfic city, bombading for 2/3 turns before attacking.

@Googaroo

Post a save mate and i'll take a look.

@groogaroo

Just did a quick browse of your post, looks pretty good. Your battleplan seems good enough, but one thing, If my eyes doesn't fool me, isn't Addis Abeba the holy city for confucianism? (looks to me there's a little star on the religionsymbol). If it's a wide spread religion (looks less likely) it may be a good idea to keep the city for a possible shrine. But on the other hand, if you care nothing for confu, there's no shrine built and you'll not get many prophets, then you might as well raze it, it doesn't look very good otherwise.

Good spot dubrown! I hadn't noticed that!

Hmmm, that leaves me with some questions.

Now I don't believe confu has spread much so I don't care too much about that aspect but there are diplo penalties for razing a holy city.

Will I suffer -diplo with every leader? or is it only with leaders who have it as their state religion?

Anyone know how severe the diplo hit would be?

:confused:

Good spot dubrown! I hadn't noticed that!

Hmmm, that leaves me with some questions.

Now I don't believe confu has spread much so I don't care too much about that aspect but there are diplo penalties for razing a holy city.

Will I suffer -diplo with every leader? or is it only with leaders who have it as their state religion?

Anyone know how severe the diplo hit would be?

:confused:


I'm not sure but my guess would be a diplohit only with those with that religion as statereligion. It sounds illogical that for example a buddist would care if a confu holy city would get razed. And in your game confu isn't spread much and noone but zara would object and that's only for razing the city itself. But then, he's dead soon so who cares... ;)

Walls are must for Border cities, as said the AI loves to have a bombard, even if they could just roll into a poorly defended city.

@TMIT


Just read your write up, very surpised you didn;t axe rush Zara. In this save does AI start with Archery on Emp? Or did you not get copper connected in time?

Although I didn't axe rush traditionally, I put several axes over there to screw him and make him really weak (his expansion was slow, he massed useless archers, and the axe camping greatly delayed his improving tiles, so he worked unimproved tiles in new cities for turns on end). I knew Sury and MM were nearby, but not their exact positions at first. I absolutely, positively wanted the land to my south (especially the gems and other :) resources), while at the same time slowing Zara down so that if I beat him I'd have a commanding empire size (this turned out to be true, I had 12 cities when declaring on MM, but with a fish city or two could have made 15+ after killing Zara).

Also note that although it didn't work out for me, a sword/axe war is often quite efficient compared to an axe rush (something I learned a bunch of Immortal U's ago after watching ABigCivFan play that one). I needed IW anyway for the gems, but was hoping for iron. No dice until after I'd functionally beaten Zara :(. Anyway, swords, even a CR I sword, have the odds against archers in cities with 20% defense on flatlands. The player is far less likely to suffer major losses taking cities with them. Combined with my desire for *very* aggressive land grab, this "axe harass and expand" approach worked out for me. Note, however, that to avoid a :backstab: I very aggressively copied Sury's religion (first getting him into confuc, later switching to buddhist to follow him).

My best unit was the knight :p. Very fun. At the end though my research was looking damn good despite having 5 empire wide libraries because I made FP in djenne. If I'd whipped out some stock exchanges/markets/grocers, teched democracy, and then rush bought whatever I needed, this would have been runaway very shortly ;).

Edit: You only get diplo penalties for razing holy cities with civs that have it as their state religion. I still recommend against razing holy cities outside of RPC angles though. Once you have a decent-sized empire you can put a secondary production city on alt-click missionary, and fill your continent with the religion. Then the holy city is a market/grocer/bank away from 50 GPT or more.

1600 AD debriefing

Platform 1200 looked fine until 1220 AD when it appeared that Elizabeth might well have to land the Hindenburg on the deck of the Titanic.
The three known empires that I wasn't at war with were cautious, the third to last of Zara Yaqob's cities had just been liberated, feudalism had been gained and a few troops had received their orders to march toward the SE. Then, Mansa Musa takes on the Ethiopians as a vassal, thereby declaring war on England while my two border cities were weakly defended. When its two against one, three or four against one is rather invited. So, a Great Artist was used to start a Golden Age, England converted to the Hinduism of Suryavarman II and Louis XIV and the military building programme was expanded.
By 1290 AD England purchased a 'pleased' from France; an Ethiopian city and a Malinese city were under siege. By 1340 AD the cities were taken, a navy was started in the West, Suryavarman was "pleased", the economy was headed south, so, with banking but two turns away peace was exchanged for one of Mansa Musa's techs and the switch was made to bureaucray and organized religion. Money, money, money led to Liberalism in 1560 AD, the Taj Mahal in 1585 AD and Economics in 1590 AD. In an early fifteenth century tour of France a horse archer viewed the work boats of Gilgamesh and Hammurabi.
The current state of affairs? England leads in production, soldiers and land, the economy is adequate, the tech lead is measurable, the fellow Hindus are "friendly". A Great Merchant has been dispatched to Paris and there are three Great People in reserve. Mansa Musa just opened his borders so a pre-invasion scouting party is at work and a marine force is ready to take the last Ehtiopian city.
Victory view? Unclear. Advice is always welcomed.
By the time England can eliminate its two old foes there will be a Grand Army as the tech path is rifling then steel. Unfortunately, S/L and G/H are friendly pairs improbably pleased with each other. Domination requires some sort of a break-up as would a UN Diplomatic Victory. Logic, at this point, suggests preparing for Domination while keeping the Space Race as a fall-back.

Well I've played through this 2nd run a bit more things seem to be going well although the game is starting to get more complicated :crazyeye:

2nd Attempt - Monarch/Epic - 1660 AD

Okay so at my last update I was about to go to war with Zara with Axes/Ellies/Cats which went okay he has a couple of offshore cities so I just kicked him off the continent then sued for peace for every tech he had. I decided to keep war rolling seeing as I had a stack sitting around, and moved my troops towards Mansa who was woefully weak.

Just before Dowing on mansa I grabbed Steel from Lib so upgraded any trebs I had to cannons and ripped him apart. As with Zara Mansa had an offshore city so again once I kicked him off the continent I sued for peace accidently vasseling him in the process! I hate vassels! Really have to check what I'm signing when I sue for peace! The war with Mansa was very plentiful netting me, two shrined holy cities & the pyramids.

Heres the British Empire @ 1660 AD

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo201.jpg


The political situation in the game is now interesting with lots of vassels and colonies popping up all over the place.

There are 4 main players in the game,


Me, master of Mansa

Gilgamesh, master of Mao & Huayna

Sury, master of Louis

Hammy, master of Cyrus


Here's a look at the leader board,

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo202.jpg


I'm still top of the board in both score & power which is good and the tech situation looks okay too.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo203.jpg


Relations

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo204.jpg


and, Glance screen

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo205.jpg


My plan is to go to war with Sury next then move onto his vassel Louis, as Louis holds the Buddist holy city & shrine which must be netting close to 60 Gpt pre multipliers. I've just finished teching rifles and my CR3 maces have been upgraded. Then I'll build up a Navy a go for Gilgamesh to hopefully net me a Domi win.

Does that seem like a sound plan?

Hmmm... gone pretty quiet over here, anyone still playing?

I'm still slogging away at this game! Feels like I've been playing it forever, but determined to end it soon!

2nd Attempt Update - Monarch/Epic - 1758 AD

At the end of my last round I was preparing to attack sury (Louis Master) with Redcoats & Cannons Vs his Longbows & Maces.

Heres a quick reminder of the situation...

Sury's land

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo301.jpg


and my two stacks preparing to invade

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo302.jpg


Now I planned to take 2 cities from louis then use one stack to take/raze Louis cities neighbouring my empire whilst the other keeps moving through Surys terriotory.

All went fairly well. Louis renounced Sury's as his master once I had taken enough of his land, I sued for peace with france and focus all my forces on wiping out Sury. He has only one good city left at this stage the rest are all pretty much Tundra/Snow cities.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo303.jpg


After taking Ankor Thom I decided to redeclare on Louis as I had enough troops to stage a two front war, I really want Frances Buddist shrine.

Suddenly Sury vassels to Gilgamesh. I hate Vassels! Suddenly I at war with just about every civ in the game! Opps!

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo304.jpg


I've just started my attack on france but I pretty much own our starting continent, just a few more cities to take.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo305.jpg


Heres The remaining cities

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo306.jpg


Victory Screen

I'm already a fair my into the domination figures, still waiting for some borderpops/revolts

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo307.jpg


Here's a pic of the land belonging to Gilgamesh/Hammurabi.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo308.jpg


Question is just go for domination or Conquest? I've never won by conquest before so I'm a bit unsure the best way to go about it... Try to vassel everyone through capitulation? There are a lot of colonies/vassels about so that might make it harder.

And the best way to go about domination?

Take out the big landmass belonging to Gilga/Hammy or pic off the island cities belonging to their vassels?

I'm really suffering with huge War weariness and am running the science slider @10% due to having to up the culture to combat it.

Any tips on going forward from here would be great.

I would revover abit then go to the big landmass and kick there ass. In my game I won dominiaiton by controling the entire original land mass and then attacking gigla for the last %.

Victory! Finally... And my highest ever score! :D

Domination Victory - Monarch/Epic - 1891 AD

I finished cleaning up the continent taking the last of Louis & Sury's city then went into a long period of recouperation & build up for the final big war to win domination.

I had infantry & Destroyers/transports at this point and decided to take all of the cities in the island chain to the south of the main continent before moving on to Gilga's mainland.

By the time I got to Gilgamesh's main cities it was a bit of a joke really.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo401.jpg


The Victory screen... almost double my highest ever score which was a domination on prince with Joao in a previous NC game.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo404.jpg


The map of the world at the end

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo402.jpg


Score & Power... a bit silly really

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/NXIIT2_Groo403.jpg


I have to admit finishing of domination victories really seem to take a lot outta me! I think I might play a nice peaceful game next time Nobles Club comes round!

:)

Gratz :D

(Damm limit)

Hi

grrrrrrr stupid Ike. two weeks with no power no cable no internet and Im waaay behind on stuff like this now. I will DL this game and try to catch up.

Kaytie

1907 AD final debriefing

U.N. Diplomatic Victory
As we left off in 1600 AD (so there was the American election, the Canadian election and the crisis in Chad to follow) S/L and G/H were friendly pairs happy with each, so the plan was domination with the space race as a back-up. In 1620 England started the next Ethiopian War (unable to get to the island, brilliant) which was discovered after the 1630 declaration of war on Mali. Being hyper-nice to the other four empires resulted in them declaring war on Mansa Musa in 1675 and it became a race to the Malinese towns.

And, so it was that by 1828 Louis XIV had taken one and the last was about to fall to the English. Domination delayed, domination denied? Hmmm. There were just too many happy campers to easily beat. So, a 12-turn Golden Age spent on non-military stuff while London got ready to build the United Nations. By 1882 everyone was friendly but for Gilgamesh's two colonial cronies and just in case England's war-focused cities had maintained the best navy and army.

Out of the blue Elizabeth was elected as the Apostolic Palace Resident in 1890 which led to a defensive pact excluding only G&2 one turn before the UN spilt 811 for, 201 against, 78 abstentions on Liz as Leader.

Looking back, key one was founding the NW Iron city which made the Ethiopian War rather easy; key two was the three surplus Great Merchants for the cash trips. One step ahead or as Seneca put it: "Luck is what happens when preperation meets opportunity." If this had been lost my fault would have been about not maximizing the philisophical trait.
Question.
In the Catherine game my base score of 6,469 in 1908 carried a Domination win of 47,824. The Elizabeth base score of 3,461 in 1907 carried a Diplomatic win of just 23,655. My second game felt more difficult. Is there a victory formula I do not quite ken?
One could, perhaps, play against expectation.

Scores are based MOSTLY (as in this is pretty much all you care about) on population, finish date, and difficulty. Domination = more pop obviously, so if you finish that vs another condition at the same time, it's going to have a higher score.

It is possible sometimes, however, to finish a game close to the domination threshold via UN and get a very high score as opposed to taking the time to get the remaining land or pop...especially if all you need is land.

But unless your GOAL is a high score and not winning, forget about it and just win!

TheMeInTeam:

Thank you for the explanation on scores. Interesting.

As a newbie the chance to see how others play is truly enlightening. So thanks to THE Noble's Club, and all those who participate. What I see from your game play strategies, points out just how bad I am at this game. So it's no wonder that even the few wins I have managed, only clock-up a Dan Quayle, and after seven plus hours of play, that really hurts.:sad:
I have tried to understand the guides & advice.:confused: Although at present my Commerce & Production cites just don't seem to function properly.
Then I downloaded the KingMorgan NC XII AD-1020.CivBeyondSwordSave file and really studied it. Just wish all the moves had been logged, as per BAT mod, but there was plenty there to show how it should be done.
I made detailed notes of all the cites builds and tile workings. Viewed the event log for the research path and civ changes. I was amazed to see that after BW had been researched no slavery. In fact no civ change until 400AD with Caste & Hereditary.
I had been blindly whipping away and ruining my cites. Thinking that was the correct way to get things done.
So back to Liz & 4000BC I go, following KingMorgan lead and I got a decent city turning out Axes in a couple of turns with no whipping.:)
Now all I have to grasp is how to use my six axes to conquer and not all end up dead. I feel for each and every one of them.:sad:
So if KingMorgan, TMIT and all could post the odd save file or log, I would be ever so grateful. It's a great learning tool.

Well... the problem is that this is an old game, so there might be less chances of people who have played it to still have the relevant files, but who knows... maybe you're lucky!

In the meantime, I'd like to suggest some of the more recent NC games, they're very fresh in memory and you could play along and better yourself. (The Victoria game was rather easy)

And also... check out tks2103's videos on 100 turns walkthrough. Search for tks2103 on youtube and you'll find your way from there. ;)

But of course, play some NC games and ask for advice/comments on your play.

Great, I will play it through with the knowledge gleaned from KingMorgan. Then compare my progress with the files dualmaster and Shafi have provided.