http://grahamcox.co.uk/ffh/fallfurther/FallFurtherBanner.jpg


Fall Further Version 051 for Fall from Heaven 2

The purpose of this Modmod was initially to add additional, distinct civilizations to Fall from Heaven 2, whilst maintaining balance, variety and flavour. Each civilization has a distinct playstyle, some unique artwork, flavourful civilopedia entries and a few tricks up their sleeves. Since Version 030, some interface and other feature additions have also been included. This trend will continue as other modders release mod-components into the community.

Installation
1. Install Fall Further using the Setup Program linked below.
2. Install any relevant patches linked below (the most recent will contain all previous patches)

Installation is now independent from Fall from Heaven 2. It does not require a specific version or patch, or even for FfH2 to be installed at all.

Main Download Here - Version 051 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8500)
Patch C (http://grahamcox.co.uk/ffh/fallfurther/FF051-PatchC.exe)

DLL Source - for modders
For the DLL source and detail of changes, see this thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=292532)

Current Version Changelog

Version 051

Fall Further Patch C (http://grahamcox.co.uk/ffh/fallfurther/FF051-PatchC.exe) (rev 673-729) - Breaks Save Games

New/Changed Features


New Button Art for Orcish racial promotion
Chislev Mounted units can now gain Orc Slaying
Added "Obscured Line of Sight" mechanic. Archery units in a tile containing Forest, Ancient Forest, or Jungle, recieve no defensive bonus from it, and a penalty to ranged attacks/first strikes.Units with any of the following promotions are immune to this effect

Woodsman I
Woodsman II
Elven (Wood Elf)
Elven (Dark Elf)
Giantkin
Flying
Natural Habitat (see below)

Wall Defender now gives +1 Ranged Strength, and +10% Ranged attack damage limit.
Archery units can now gain Wall Defender if the city contains Summoned Walls of Stone, from the Earth I spell.
Rogue (Austrin Scout UU) Gains +25% withdrawal chance
Rogue, Explorer, Tracker, given Adventurer as free promo, to solve issues with the trait not quite working.
Trackers can now carry a hawk
Added CIV4GameText_Promotions.xml for promotion related text keys.
Bhall will no longer spawn Gretchin (for now, might bring them back in future). They are only for the Clan of Embers now
Skeletons get +20% vs Archery units
Skeletons get Free Unit promotion
Barbarian Goblin archers get no defensive bonuses
Pyre zombie penalty vs archers reduced to 15% (from 40%)
Building Glory Everlasting now lowers the armageddon counter significantly.
All Tier IV Priests now have Medic III, and can cast Heal. Full list of units affected

Runekeeper
High Priest of Leaves
High Priest of Winter
Prior
Luridus
Profane
Speaker (the Overlords priest)
Doomgiver

Maximum awakened spawns for Scions of Patria Increased
Awakened spawn rate decay decreased. Will diminish slower.
Softened difficulty modifiers for Awakened spawning.
Added slightly new Doomsayer art. He has a new helmet-less head. Doomgiver is unchanged.
Ira will now gradually lose strength over time if they're not killing things. They have a 33% chance per turn to lose 1 strength point.
Merged in new FFH Art by seZereth:

Elohim Scout
Elohim Hunter
Elohim Adept
Elohim Mage
Elohim Axeman
Elohim Champion
Elohim Archer
Elohim Horseman
Elohim Chariot
Elohim Longbowman
Elohim Horsearcher
Balseraph Chariot

Only living units can be poisoned now.
"Which Leader?" text for Temple of the Gift, Imperial Cenotaph, Korinna, and the Risen Emperor.
"In a Bright Land" story added for the leaders Risen Emperor and Korinna (Parts I and III), Awakened (Part II), and Cathedral of Rebirth (Part IV). (Korinna's former leader text moved to Martyrs of Patria.)
Reborn discount number-of-buildings fix. (odalrick)
New Scion World Spell: The Breach. (All python heavy-lifting by odalrick.)
Added "Natural Habitat" promotion. Autoaquired/Mustmaintain by lizardmen in jungles. Gives:

+5% Heal rate
+1 first strike
+10% withdrawal chance
+55 workrate
Immune to Obscured Line of Sight

Reduced Lizardman jungle combat bonuses slightly, to 20%
Illian Temples of the Hand now give +2 :culture: and +1 :gold: as well as having a massive AI weight. Lose the +20% :culture:. This should ensure the AI builds them ASAP
Added Trollkin racial promotion. Given to trolls instead of Giantkin. It has the same effects as giantkin, and trolls will still get the Giantkin age bonuses, plus:

Heals while moving
+10% heal rate
-75% fire resistance (trolls are massively weak to fire)

Removed troll "Regeneration" mechanic. This is now incorporated into their racial promotion.
Dwarves can now learn Giant Slaying
Changed button art for Stoneskin promotion, to match the Stoneskin spell
Jotnar Commander now uses Vala art.
Hippus Commander uses Magnadine art
Reduced Workrate of Lizardman Labourer by 40, to partially offset Natural Habitat. Makes them more dependant on their home terrain
Also added 25% withdrawal rate. Cowardly slaves will drop tools and run at the first sign of trouble.
Boosted Orc Slaying combat bonus, from 20% to 30%
Clan of Embers palace now gives Chaos mana instead of Nature mana.
Warrens cost reduced to 100
Warrens now only duplicates living units
Warrens now gives "Undisciplined" promotion to any units duplicated with it

-20% strength
20% miuscast chance
10% less ranged damage cap
recieves 50% more collateral damage
1% chance to become barbarian
2% chance to wear off
Automatically removed when the unit reaches lv4

Alchemy Lab and Meditation Hall(Khadi alchemy lab UB) cost reduced to 120
Ogre given it's own unitclass, moved to iron working.
Ogre Stats adjusted: 8/6, 1 move, +25% vs archery
Ogre Warchief changed unitclass to immortal, and unitcombat to commander, moved to divine essence.
Ogre warchief Stats changed as follows: 14/10 str, 1 move, Immortal
Ogre Warchief pedia updated.
Stoneskin ogre changed to Phalanx and Mythril working.
Stoneskin ogre Stat changes:16str, +25% vs archery, 1 move.
In addition, all ogres gain:

ranged strength 3, cap 50%
Collateral damage on attack: 20% strength, 80% limit, 4 targets.
City Bombard rate 5%

Enhanced Pedia design by Xienwolf, Filter and Sort dropdown menus. Designed to be modder friendly so more filters/sorts can be easily added, not to include every filter/sort which any player may desire (as that would be HUNDREDS...). It includes the same screens as the previous pedia plus a few more (by way of filtering the main screen)
New Beast of Agares art by WarKirby and seZereth



Bugfixes


Fixed OnUnitKilled python event not triggering when a unit dies. This fixes Angel/Manes spawning, the Soul Forge, and Mokka's Cauldron
Fix for UnitInfos modular loading (Defense value and Asset/Power values)
Stackable Promotions now remove properly
Fixed fireballs increasing supply costs infinitely upon death.
TXT_KEYs added/changed.

Full details 051 Patch Cycle post
40.
Armored Cav tech
FUR_NO_DEAL Cualli diplo
Promotion help: Warden
Spell pedia: Stoneskin
Spell help: Charm Person
DoM text: Grigori, Malakim
Unit Strat: Anubite, Ogre Warchief
Fixed Archos Devour Mate TXT_KEY

Take Root: Removed erroneous "Cause War" tag.
Gretchin and Engineer Corps are now properly blocked from worker promotions
Commanders authorised for hundreds of promotions and spell effects.
Changed all references of getNumRealBuilding to getNumBuilding in CvEventManager.py. This fixes the Amurites' free spells from Wizard's Halls not working with Catacomb Libralus.
Button art fixes:

Take Traveller's Cloak spell
Compelling Jewel promo
Use Potion of Restoration spell
Take/Use Healing Potion spells
Use Newt's Draught spell
Commander Defense promotions
Dural Tactician unit
Fixed Broken Art:
Fixed Hippus War Chariot art
Fixed Balseraph Galley art
Fixed Grigori horsearcher Art
Fixed battlemage art

Added iPrereqGlobalCounter 70 to Bane Divine and Glory Everlasting. They will now actually require the armageddon counter to be 70 before they can be built.
Fixed incorrect type and txt key for Commander Defense III, which made it unuseable.
Fixed a minor bug in Kahdi elemental spawning
Fixed the Civilopedia failing at Longbowman, or when capturing longbowmen, while playing as the Austrin. Longbowmen that the Austrin capture from enemies, will now have Recurve archer Graphics.
Fix for Dural Courthouse UB - Great Hall may now be built.
Tower Shield Event - Shock promotion changed to Cover.
Barbarians can no longer trigger Foxford
Added a few debug spells for modders. Several spells to control the AC within a game, and a spell to place every unit in existence, for art testing. To activate them, give yourself the Never tech through worldbuilder.
The Peace Spell (corlindale and seven pines) now correctly halves the AC
Malignant Flora can no longer end up in cities.
Removed references to "Scions Sympathisers" in spellinterface
Fixed a syntax error in RandomEventInterface
Fixed Dural Schools of Cernunnos and Fallen One being unbuildable


Patch B (http://grahamcox.co.uk/ffh/fallfurther/FF051-PatchB.exe): (Rev 656-673) -- Breaks Savegames
Bugfixes:

Immortal units will stop fighting after being reborn instead of running across the world to get instantly killed their second time
Fixed python error (maybe) for all python attempts to create a Treasure Chest with equipment in it (Scorched Staff and Lair Exploration mostly)
Units now display if they have a damage cap right beside their strength (Ranged and normal)
Cleric listed for Bannor to use, College of Theo and various Schools listed for Dural use
Egrass can now build all 21 Manas
Treasure Chests will not be deleted automatically when a hostile unit is standing on them
You can now pick up the Dragon's Horde (building form) properly
INSERT key no longer causes a CtD when pressed. Functionality changed to zoom to Capital city instead of just selecting the nearest city
Loki can no longer Entertain nor Disrupt Barbarian Cities (they kinda don't care...)
Austrin cannot found cities in the water
Reagents, Deer, Marble, Pig, Gems and Incense are no longer flagged for normalizing start locations
Brigit (Held) is no longer used, now the Ring of Carcer itself provides Brigit
Fixed Art Define for Clan of Embers Archmage
Command IV button now says IV instead of III
Summons no longer allowed to have a Commander, Animals and Beasts authorized to though.


Features & Balance:

Added Deadly Mishap mechanic to Wierd Wracked Miscast chance and eventual damage to the unit
Doomgivers rebalanced, along with Archon's Rule
Commander Unitcombat added to some promotions where applicable. More probably still need doing
Rust renamed to Corrode, no longer removes Mithril Weapons
Units now display damage caps on Ranged and Normal damage if unable to kill
Gretchin UU added for Clan of Embers. Very cheap but VERY slow worker
Added Goblinoid Racial Promotion and applied it to various Goblins in the game
New model for Ring of Carcer
Mud Golems & Default and Elven Workers have Combat Animations now
Losha Valas now uses a Shortsword animation instead of a Maceman animation
Some Game Loading Hints updated to be appropriate to Fall Further (more to follow, including some removals)


Patch A (Rev 656)

BugFixes Button for Dancing Bear building is correctly linked now
Join and Leave Commander spells are marked as Abilities
Bannor can build Clerics
Dural can build their unique Buildings, and College (Library Replacement) renamed to Hall of Tomes
Number of buildings required for Altar/Tower victories properly display
Kidnap is an Ability
Icon used for Great General in GP Bar changed (from Globe (050) to Spy (051) to Defense symbol (after next patch))
Fixed a screen-crash when Dural generate points toward a Tactician and any other Great Person at the same time in the city closest to a new Great Person birth
Fixed an issue with StackEffect Command Promotions not properly updating on movement/joining/leaving/death
BCoC Rank controlling Effect Promotions are now MustMaintain
Broken Art:

Calabim Palace
Luchuirp Palace
Adularia Chamber
Dwarven Smithy
Necropolis
Shrine to Kylorin
Kylorin Cult
Wizard's Hall
Shrouded Woods
Amurite Archer unit
Malakim Archer unit
Seraph Unit
Gibbon Goetia Popup image

Fix for CtD without error messages when any unit leaves Haunted Lands
Removed the possibility of a General following one of his own Followers
Now you REALLY cannot work plots outside of allowed city radius
Improved output in OOS Logger, now tells you WHICH tiles are being worked by each city
Join/Leave Commander can be used even if you have cast another spell. Only restricted from joining/leaving if you have finished all of your attacks for the turn.
Couple of GameText typo's fixed

New Features Included "MountainCoast" and "PerfectWorld2" map scripts
Elohim now get Verdandi (doviello phalanx UU) As Phalanx UU.
Khazad and Luchuirp now share the same palace art[/QUOTE]

Release (Rev 633)
1 Modular Loading updated - modules are now able to do a lot more (see ModModders thread for details)
2 Improved Gamefont layout - many more available slots for resources, religions and guilds
3 Scrolling civic screen - less limiting regarding number of civics/categories
4 Enabled CombatXP vs Civilized players to generate Great Commanders
5 Great Commanders now have a choice between creating a Command Post or Recruiting troops - neither will kill the commander
6 Great Commanders are now able to lead other units (initially 3) and provide promotions to all their followers in range
7 Great Commanders gain XP when their followers do. Less gain if the follower is a much higher/lower level than the commander
8 Added "Command Limit I and II" promotions - allows commander to control additional units
9 Added "Command Range I and II" promotions - increases the range at which commanders apply their promotions to followers
10 Added "Commander Defense I and II" promotions - increases defensive strength of commander
11 Added "Great Leader" - increases the rate at which followers gain XP by 50%
12 Added "Field Medic I and II" - increases the rate followers heal at (I) and allows followers to heal whilst moving (II)
13 Added "Battle Command I, II and III" - increases the strength of followers and unlocks several other promotions
14 Added "Battlefield Tactics" - provides free Tactics promotions to followers
15 Added "Tactical Knowledge - Battleline" - allows Melee followers to adopt Battleline formation (bonus vs Melee)
16 Added "Tactical Knowledge - Block" - allows Melee followers to adopt Block formation (bonus vs Mounted)
17 Added "Tactical Knowledge - Loose" - allows Melee followers to adopt Loose formation (bonus vs Archer)
18 Added "Artillery Master" and "Siege Tactics" - improves effectiveness of Siege unit followers
19 Added "Garrison Commander" and "Archery Commander" - improves effectiveness of Archer unit followers
20 Added "Scouting I, II and II" - allows Recon units additional line of sight (I), improved movement (II) and ability to see invisible units (III)
21 Added "Religious Leader" - improves strength of Disciple followers
22 Added "Arcane Mentor" - significantly improves rate at which Adept followers gain passive XP
23 Added "Captain" Bannor UU for Commander - starts with Leadership and Battle Command I, can gain higher level of Commander Defense than other civs
24 Donal Lugh now can command 3 units, granting Battle Command 1 (+% strength) and Leadership (faster XP), with a command range of 1 (cannot gain further commander promotions)
25 Added "Warchief" Chislev UU for Commander - stronger than other commanders and can attack, starts "Tactical Knowledge - Battleline" and has a greater Base/Max limit to number of followers
26 Added "Tactician" Dural UU for Commander - starts with Command Limit I, Command Range I, Battlefield Tactics
27 Improved display of Unique Units/Buildings in Civ-screen of pedia
28 Added Blighted Forest - early game units who approach too closely will be forced away (can be overcome with Iron Working tech OR Mines of Gal Dur wonder)
29 Blighted forests tend to have more animals that other forests
30 Added Diakonos - tricksy blighted fawns who confuse all who approach (nearby units may become blind and wander for a short time)
31 Added "Dark Forests" game option - enables the Blighted Forest and Diakonos (one will be present at random) - considered a challenge mode.
32 Number of Scion Reborn units created when capturing/razing cities reduced.
33 Scion Haunted Lands will spontaneously appear, based on the number of relevant units owned and the type of terrain
34 Haunted Lands Concept pedia entry updated to reflect above
35 Arawn's Dust can now destroy camps
36 Fed creepers do not cause war when "taking root"
37 Martyr's of Patria are now free units
38 Rooted Creepers stats boosted
39 Scions spawing/training improved in OCC games
40 Blocked an exploit involving Korinna in Hauntform and blitz
41 Scion palace War Weariness increased to 35 from 25
42 Scion Building Graphics updated
43 Vacant Mausoleum and Imperial Centaph now properly blocked from Risen Emperor
44 Temple of the Gift now properly blocked from Korinna
45 Assigned Field of the Horselords to Hippus correctly
46 Assigned Shrouded Woods to Svartalfar correctly
47 Mother's "Devour Mate" icon and pedia fixed
48 Dunespeak no longer provides free maintenance
49 Bedouin village removed
50 Malakim flood plains don't provide a hammer
51 Malakim desert no longer provides a bonus commerce
52 Infirmary removed Diseased
53 Cualli Priests of Agruonn and Shadow Priests of Agruonn gain Medic 2
54 Miquiztli loses "Chosen of Aeron"
55 Prereq for Master Outfitter moved to Hunter's Hall instead of Hunting Lodge
56 Additional pedia explanation for each Master-building
57 Chaos and Fire Mana add +50% each to production of Pax Diabolis
58 Gnoslings now gain strength when certain types of mana are controlled - only one point for the first of each relevant type (one shot affinity)
59 Khazad gain +1 commerce from mines
60 Scorch now correctly affects swamp again
61 Go for the eyes!
62 Undead units are less resistant to Unholy and less vulnerable to Holy damage types
63 Ranged attacks are not allowed against targets you won't damage
64 AI won't try to heal within range of a ranged attacker
65 Barbarians of different Civs won't share a tile anymore
66 Werewolf Promotion now controls generation of new werewolves,
67 Werewolf is now a promotion state, not a unit (except for lair results). Werewolf units retain original appearance.
68 Added "Inspiring Statue" - Dural UB Monument
69 Added "College" - Dural UB Library
70 Added "Fayre" - Dural UB Market
71 Added "Exposition" - Dural UB Carnival
72 Added "Great Hall" - Dural UB Courthouse
73 Added "Council" - Dural UB Elder Council
74 Added "Apothecary" - Dural UB Herbalist
75 Added "College of Theology" - Dural only, allows construction of several additional "schools", based on religions present in city
76 Tech Trading available at Writing
77 Improved AI teching, especially with regard to accessing later game heroes
78 Improved AI construction choices
79 Improved AI awareness of economy
80 Increased palace commerce from +8 to +12 (helps non-REXing civs such as the Khazad to stay competitive early game)
81 Ranged combat now provides diminishing returns (good XP at low level, reduced somewhat every 5XP after that)
82 Twincast is available to all Adept units of Level 10 or greater
83 Duin gains Cannibalize
84 Diseased Corpses and Moroi never obsolete
85 Lizard work rates increased (still slow, but not as slow as they were)
86 Three Stooges correctly gain Giantkin
87 Strength of Force Bolt spell increased 50%
88 AI now more likely to build workers and is smarter about using them
89 Added "Caste System" process - allows you to create Culture, Research and Wealth, each equal to 50% of your production (requires Caste System civic)
90 Added "Wealth (Improved)" process - requires Taxation, converts Production to Wealth at 100% rate
91 Added "Research (Improved)" process - requires Academy in city, converts Production to Research at 100% rate
92 Added "Culture (Improved)" process - requires Liberty Civic, converts Production to Culture at 100% rate
93 Dropped items are now held in treasure chests (first step toward the AI being smart about equipment and an extension of the current system)
94 Austrin gain CivTrait "Wanderer" - all recon units gain "Adventurer" promotion
95 Austrin Recurve archer gains "Ignore Terrain Cost" and "Woodsman II"
96 Jotnar "Traditions" civic NumCitiesMaintenance significantly reduced (more rebalancing to come based on work in FF+)
97 Highlander UU for Austrin added (Axeman)
98 Dwarven Defender UU for Khazad added (Champion) - has Heavy promotion and can learn City Garrison
99 Wizards Hall UB is now buildable correctly
100 Fixed Soldiers of Kilmorph artwork
101 Pegasus riders now Receive No Defenseive Bonus
102 Pegasus units are now Flying whilst unmounted as well as after mounting
103 Guerilla I now 20% Hills Attack, 30% Hills Defense
104 Guerilla II now 25% Hills Attack, 30% Hills Defense, Double Move in Hills
105 Fixed Amurite UU Archmage
106 Fixed Govannon's Teach ability with Creation/Force/Dimensional spheres
107 Fixed Jotnar Arcane units not being able to build Creation/Force/Dimensional nodes
108 Many German translations added (thanks to Lac)
109 Quack quack!
110 Centaur Charger and Centaur Guard now receive defensive bonuses
111 Insane/Trait changes work properly
112 Boar Riders are now 2 move, 4 strength, +25% vs Melee and Archery
113 AllowPromotion/DenyPromotion entries in UnitInfo's fixed (for modmodders - no in game effect)
114 Chislev Immortal model optimized (was a little ungainly)
115 Improved Alazkan Pedia/Popup text (thanks to Killerclowns)
116 Scion Workers are now Engineer Corpse (no aptitude, no free XP, +25% base workrate)
117 Workboats are now correctly used by the AI
118 Fixed Orcish Berserker Art
119 New Orcish Champion art added
120 Rantine temporarily borrows the (fairly rare) Orc Paladin art
121 Removed redundant "Continue" entry on Esus constellation event
122 New artwork for Griffon
123 New artwork for Austrin Champion
124 New artwork for Austrin Recurve Archer
125 New artwork for Pegasus and Pegasus riding units
126 Infernal warriors are now "Warrior Manes" instead of Skeletons
127 New artwork for Cualli Assassin
128 New artwork for Mercurian Seraph
129 Fixed "Multiple Blights in one Game" issue
130 AI Worker construction improved, they should keep more workers on hand.
131 Great Commander GPP producing buildings now generally increase Great Commander emergence rate instead
132 Basilica produces Great Prophet points instead of Great Commander
133 National Epic still produces +1GPP, but is now untyped
134 Lumbermills can now be built in Ancient Forests
135 Commander promotions have their own pedia section
136 Baron Duin Halfnorn now has some command limit
137 Baron gets Pack Alpha promotion. Keeps werewolves following him under control
138 Springing a desert with a Bedouin Sit/Camp/Gathering will replace the improvement with a Cottage (disruption to their way of life)
139 Message for Degrading promotions is now quicker and silent
140 Added a ton of new button images for the various comander promotions
141 XP required to level up is now capped at 25. This means that beyond lv13, xp required to level up no longer increases. So reaching higher levels will be easier.
142 Prereq NOT Minion and Python Help fields added to spell infos and put to immediate work with the Join Commander spell.
143 Arawn's Dust has delayed effect. Creeper visible and may be attacked as Hidden Nationality unit during delay.
144 New mechanism for spawning units from Goblin Forts, now they can spawn any of the Scorpion Clan unit types.
145 Improvment Spawn Limitations are now controlled only by ImprovementInfos.xml, number of such units in the area is no longer considered at all.
146 Added Bannor Only spell for converting a level 10 unit into a Captain. (Called Advancement)
147 Dwarven Slinger can now upgrade to Arquebus
148 Made Margalard/Gurid/Leviathan appear in all games with high probability.
149 Crusader art now has Shield of Junil emblazoned on shield/clothing, insead of christian cross.
150 Compatible with BtS 3.19.

Version 050

Patch N (http://grahamcox.co.uk/ffh/fallfurther/FF050-PatchN.exe) (will break save games)
1. Fixes prereq problem that could cause non-Jotnar units to become Giantkin.
2. Fixes Recon-Mission related CtD (had to revert some changes to ranged unit AI - hopefully the next version will have them acting smartly again)
3. Malakim Oasis bonus set to +1 (as intended, had merged Malakim+'s bonus of +2 over the original change)
4. Desert Stealth spells added for Dervish (allows unit to become invisible in Desert only)
5. Bedouins can build roads properly.
6. Feral TXT_KEY added.

(Reserved for when the changelog gets stupidly long again)

well done :goodjob:

Patch O - Download (http://grahamcox.co.uk/ffh/fallfurther/FF042-PatchO.exe)
1. Resolved issue with Feats/Options
2. Functionality of Nox Nocts/Chosen of Esus invisibility reworked - you may now choose to become visible at will whilst under the effect.
3. Ship crew mechanic switched to use Exclusive Promotions mechanic
4. Weapon Tier mechanic switched to use Exclusive Promotions mechanic
5. XP cap "removed" for fighting animals of other civilizations (100 XP cap still applies for barbarian animals)
6. "All Unique Features" game option added
7. Mana-Surge "Anti-ritual" ritual added
8. Default barbarian first-spawn time based on number of cities (as with base FfH)
9. "Barbarian World" game option ignores the number of player cities when spawning barbarians (Raging + Barbarian World is nasty)

Contrary to the rumours - Patch N never existed. Honest. Nothing to see here, move along please, <jedi mind trick>these aren't the patches you're looking for</jedi mind trick> - oh, and help yourself to Patch O on the way out.

(The download labeled as Patch N was "lacking")

I started a game with patch N, is patch O savegame compatible ? :D

Gekko;7316305']I started a game with patch N, is patch O savegame compatible ? :D

Should be - it just fixes cosmetic issues in any case...

===

I mean... "IMPOSSIBLE! There is no Patch N and there never was!"

What was wrong with patch N?

What was wrong with patch N?

Apart from its non-existence?

Couple of changed files weren't included by the automated script I use to pull out/bundle patches. Needed to tweak the script to take them into account. As there had already been 44 unique IPs downloading the N patch, I altered the letter to avoid confusion between "Partial N" and "Full N"

when is the ff thats compatible with ffh 2 034 going to be released?

God kills a puppy every day we go without a new version of FF.... Save the puppies! Release a new version! :goodjob:

God kills a puppy every day we go without a new version of FF.... Save the puppies! Release a new version! :goodjob:

What does God do to people who, unprovoked, bump the download thread and get other people's hopes up, hmm?

What does God do to people who, unprovoked, bump the download thread and get other people's hopes up, hmm?

Heh - and there was me thinking that people were posting in here because I sneakily updated the changelog earlier to include the current checked in changes...

What does God do to people who, unprovoked, bump the download thread and get other people's hopes up, hmm?

Most likely something horrible... I'm waiting for the plague to strike lol.

Edit: Woot! Been waiting for a changelog... Like the new +health buildings. :D

Heh - and there was me thinking that people were posting in here because I sneakily updated the changelog earlier to include the current checked in changes...

Too sneaky.

Nice list! Glad you took some good stuff from MaxAstro. Skirmisher for J. Throwers is a good call - hadn't occurred to me at all.

I think "Sewers" a particularly good addition. I like encouraging differentiation/specialization between cities.

Too sneaky.

Nice list! Glad you took some good stuff from MaxAstro. Skirmisher for J. Throwers is a good call - hadn't occurred to me at all.

I think "Sewers" a particularly good addition. I like encouraging differentiation/specialization between cities.

Agreed, especially seeing as the City of Slums was changed to add unhealth.

awesome! although I'm not really sure what you mean by "old FF style exploration" and "Kael style exploration" tbh :D

it's nice to know that ice mana is still buildable btw ;)

Gekko;7419995']awesome! although I'm not really sure what you mean by "old FF style exploration" and "Kael style exploration" tbh :D

it's nice to know that ice mana is still buildable btw ;)

Basically the "FF Style" is the one that FF has always had - with our magic items, monsters and other random results.

"Kael Style" is what is in 034 - which may be better than what we had, or not, or just different. There's no problem with running the two systems alongside each other for the moment - and it actually gives us a wider range of results depending on which lairs you explore. They'll probably be reworked and unified at some point in 043 (sounds like good material for a patch of its own), but this way is quick and gives us chance to see which parts of each should be kept in the reworked system.

I personally like making it so that exploring has a delay instead of costing the unit its movement.

Could you make it so that delayed cast spells are cast just before the immobility wears off instead of just after, so that units can cast as soon as they can move again?

Wow, awesome changelog. And I'm quite honored to see some of my changes on there. :) Also love what you did to Aqueducts, that's exactly the kind of fix I should have come up with.

While you are tweaking the archery line (very much approve that change, btw), would you consider looking at lowering the cost of Bowyers? It really seems like one of the most overpriced techs on the tree.

need this Mod mod soo bad.. the channel log has some awesome tweaks.. any news on a release date please?

I second Dogfax. im dying for my FF Fix :p

Changelog looks great. Looking forward to it.

Any chance you can tweak the AI to favor building next to rivers as they have become more important. Always bugs me that they seem to feel rivers are irrelevant leading me, in my perfectionist ways to raze the city and resettle one square over.

Awful quiet. Has this mod-mod been abandonned? That would be horrible.

The rest of the forum seems to be alive, so I guess not... :)

lol allow me to quote Vehem replying to the same question in the original FF thread: :lol:

"Have you noticed that the thread is now in a "Fall Further" forum? I'm guessing that you might have subscribed to this thread and are just clicking through to it directly as a couple of the points you've raised are discussed in other threads in this forum (mobile siege etc) and I haven't noticed you posting in any of the other threads.

That might also explain why the original thread seems slow "

Awful quiet. Has this mod-mod been abandonned? That would be horrible.

Definitely not abandoned- we've just had an influx of new ideas and a lack of time lately. We've now banned ourselves however from making any major additions beyond what we have already and are basically working to get it out the door. To give you an idea of activity behind the scenes, I didn't get chance to check PMs yesterday and woke up with 16 of them all about Fall Further from the people working on 043.

Of course - the additions we don't make just now will show up a little later on anyway...

i suspect the patches will be filled with new goodies too :D

"people working on 043" ? I thought it was just you and xienwolf... did the FF team get bigger? :D

Another change I'd like to request: Could you make Stirrups no longer require Archery? It feels weird to have to grab Archery to continue down the mounted path... Although it will be less of a problem now that Archery is easier to reach.

Horse Archers requiring Archery makes sense, but Stirrups requiring Archery makes little sense to me.

Another change I'd like to request: Could you make Stirrups no longer require Archery? It feels weird to have to grab Archery to continue down the mounted path... Although it will be less of a problem now that Archery is easier to reach.

Horse Archers requiring Archery makes sense, but Stirrups requiring Archery makes little sense to me.

Good call - included.

Something else that occurs to me: While I love the changes to Archery to make it much more accessible, would it possibly make Gilden Silveric come too early for the elves? He is already a pretty strong early game hero.

Well he has str 5 attack after all, the equivalence of Rantine or Lucian with copper, which is about the same age.
Of course defensive-wise he's a real beast early on, but having him appear a little earlier shouldn't really make the Ljosalfar too strong offensively.

Well he has str 5 attack after all, the equivalence of Rantine or Lucian with copper, which is about the same age.
Of course defensive-wise he's a real beast early on, but having him appear a little earlier shouldn't really make the Ljosalfar too strong offensively.

Dexterous makes him total 6 strength, the equivalent of an Axeman with Iron Weapons, plus he has a ranged attack. He doesn't get City Raider, but he's still pretty potent.

oh yea forgot that he has dexterous.
His ranged attack is really weak though iirc, something like 10-15% capped. But he'll still have trouble breaking cities, lacking shock II and CR. Unless of course you reach a really high level on him

oh yea forgot that he has dexterous.
His ranged attack is really weak though iirc, something like 10-15% capped. But he'll still have trouble breaking cities, lacking shock II and CR. Unless of course you reach a really high level on him

The Gilden rush is already a well accepted MP tactic- he can win you the game if your opponents aren't rush prepared. Try it against the computer and you'll find you can crush your whole continent if you get him early enough.

If you are buffing archery, he really needs something to stop him coming out even earlier. Archery AND hunting maybe? Or more hammers?

I was thinking making him require Archery and Hunting would be about right. That puts him about where he was previously, if not even a little slower because you need Crafting.

Loving the passive xp effects, especially the dwarven vault additions!

in the current changelog, it states that full dwarven vaults give more passive XP than overflowing dwarven vaults, yet overflowing is the 'better' vault. Any reason for this, or typo?

Simple, the dwarves get lazy when they have their vaults all loaded and good to go ;) :p

in the current changelog, it states that full dwarven vaults give more passive XP than overflowing dwarven vaults, yet overflowing is the 'better' vault. Any reason for this, or typo?

Thanks - I'd done the same thing in the XML as well, but both are sorted now.

Version 043
0. Updated to FfH 034.
1. Scions of Patria added (civilization by Tarquelne)
2. Curse the Lands, Appease Divinity and Mana Surge rituals temporarily disabled (we've got plans for these but at the moment they're going to interfere too much with the Illian rituals - watch this space)
3. Barrows, Ruins and Hill Giant Steadings use old Fall Further style exploration. New style dungeons (including goblin forts and Epic Dungeons) use Kael style exploration. (both alongside to compare/contrast, plus extra variability).
4. Ice Mana is still a standard node type (change from FfH 034 back to FF042).
5. Ice spells split into "Divine" and "Arcane".
6. Ice Arcane includes Slow, Summon Ice Elemental, Frozen Lands.
7. Ice Divine includes Summon Frostling, Stasis Curse, Snowfall.
8. Epic Lairs will not disappear when explored/destroyed. Can be successfully explored/destroyed once every 100 turns. (Mr Underhill)
9. Lightbringers gain better results from tribal villages (MaxAstro).
10. Theatre cost decreased to 180 hammers (MaxAstro).
11. Aqueduct cost decreased to 150 hammers. Tech Prereq changed to Construction.
12. "Well" building added. Cost 75 hammers. Requires: Crafting. +1 Health.
13. "Sewers" building added. Cost 180 hammers. Requires: Sanitation, City next to river. +1 Health, no Unhealthiness from buildings in city.
14. Buildings which require riverside cities (Brewery, Spirit Mill, Sewers) display the requirement in their help text.
15. Cualli start with "Blood and Sacrifice" as a default civic (MaxAstro)
16. Daracaat is now Barbarian, Aggressive, Defender (Aggressive and Defender are not mutually exclusive thematically) (MaxAstro).
17. Polar Bears will only spawn on Snow, not Forest (MaxAstro).
18. City of a Thousand Slums now requires Taxation instead of Engineering (MaxAstro).
19. City of a Thousand Slums now provides -5 Health (negated if you have a sewer in the city).
20. Mazatl Palace provides Creation mana instead of Mind mana (MaxAstro).
21. Letum Frigus will spawn Beastmen periodically - it still attracts warriors of the Doviello who know it as a legendary place (MaxAstro).
22. Axemen and "standard" Axeman UU's (i.e. Moroi, Brutes and Swordsmen but not Pyre Zombies and Wood Golems) gain 25% Attack vs Warriors (don't rely on warriors to defend well).
23. Archery now requires Crafting instead of Exploration->Hunting.
24. Archery cost increased by 20% to 360 (offsets the cheaper path to the tech slightly, but still massively easier to reach than previously).
25. Javelin thrower units gain the "Skirmisher" promotion (promotion introduced by the Scions - +15% chance to withdraw, increased chance to defend stack).
26. Added Promotion Duration mechanic (for ModModders).
27. Added CivSelect GameOption - allows you to enable or disable civs that will may be selected when choosing Random civilizations.
28. Added chance for Fall Further magic items to be found in treasure chests
29. Added GameOption to disable Worker Experience gain (promotions still available so if they *do* gain XP from somewhere it can be spent, but there is no passive gain).
30. Lizardman promotion grants attack/defense bonuses in normal jungle as well as deep jungle (MaxAstro)
31. Added Carrack naval unit. Requires: Optics. Strength 9, Range 1. (Role: Escort)
32. Frigate moved to Astronomy. Strength 11, Range 1, Moves 5, No cargo. Bonuses vs transport ships - Galley, Galleon, Queen of the Line - and Privateers. (Role: Escort/Patrol vessel)
33. Galleon moved to Optics, 1 extra cargo. (Role: Transport)
34. Caravel gains +35% withdrawal chance. (Role: Exploration)
35. Galley gains 2 cargo spaces and increases in cost by 10 hammers. (Role: Early Transport)
36. Man O' War gains ranged attack (Range 2, 60% limit). Moves reduced to 3. Strength increased to 16. National Unit - Limit: 4 (Role: Heavy Warship)
37. Pirate (Lanun UU) gains 1 move and starts with Buccaneer crew (allows them to use the Buccaneers spell). Gains +50% bonus vs Transport ships (see above).
38. Privateers gain +25% bonus vs transport ships.
39. All bonus requirements (copper, iron) for naval units below Astronomy level removed (encourages the use of different ships, especially by the AI).
40. Trade Ship added. Strength 2, Moves 3. Can carry out trade missions in foreign ports.
41. Archery is no longer a prereq for Stirrups (though is still required for most units under UNITCLASS_HORSEARCHER). (MaxAstro)
42. Gilden Silveric requires Hunting in addition to Archery (puts him back where he was in the tech-tree).
43. Kraken gains 25% vs Man O War
44. "Training Yard" renamed to "Barracks".
45. New building "Training Yard", requires Warfare, +10 Passive XP Cap for Melee.
46. "Archery Range" renamed to "Fletcher".
47. New building "Archery Range", requires Archery, +10 Passive XP Cap for Archer.
48. New building "Jousting Tilt", requires Feudalism, +16 Passive XP Cap for Mounted.
49. Hunting Lodge and House of the Grey (Sidar UB for Hunting Lodge) gain +5 Passive XP Cap for Recon.
50. Exploration Guild (Austrin UB for Hunting Lodge) gains +10 Passive XP Cap for Recon.
51. Command Post gains +50% Passive XP Gain Rate for Melee, Mounted and Archer.
52. Mages Guild and Alchemy Lab both gain +25% Passive XP Gain Rate for Adept.
53. Meditation Hall (Kahdi UB Alchemy Lab) gains +50% Passive XP Gain Rate for Adept.
54. Pagan Temple gains +25% Passive XP Gain Rate for Disciple.
55. Temple of Temporance gains +75% Passive XP Gain Rate for Disciple.
56. Jousting Tilt grants +2 Happiness with Aristocracy
57. Archery Range grants +1 Happiness with Aristocracy
58. Full Dwarven Vault grants +25% Passive XP Gain Rate for all unit combat types.
59. Overflowing Dwarven Vault grants +50% Passive XP Gain Rate for all unit combat types.
60. Low Dwarven Vault grants -50% Passive XP Gain Rate for all unit combat types.
61. Empty Dwarven Vault grants -100% Passive XP Gain Rate for all unit combat types.
62. Hippodrome grants +50% Passive XP Gain Rate for Mounted.
63. Cave of Ancestors grants +50% Passive XP Gain Rate for Adept.
64. Planar Gate grants +25% Passive XP Gain Rate for Adept and Disciple.
65. Determination (Force2 spell) removed.
66. Force Bolt (Force1 spell) increased in strength and moved to Force2.
67. Accelerate spell added at Force1. Increases movement rate temporarily for Siege and Golem units.
68. Boarding Parties and Buccaneers gain +50% vs Naval Units (as per Kael's comment for 040 - guessing at the value)
69. City Raider 2 reduced to 30% bonus (was 40%) (as per Kael's comment for 040)
70. City Raider 3 reduced to 30% bonus (was 50%) (as per Kael's comment for 040)
71. Abbey (Elohim UB) grants +10 Passive XP Cap and +50% Passive XP Gain Rate for Disciple.
72. Game Option "Simultaneous Turns" added for Single Player use (treat as experimental).
73. FF Version and Patch Version are shown when hovering the civ-flag. (Jean Elcard)
74. Added "Avoid Unhappy Growth" city option. (Jean Elcard)
75. Added "Avoid Unhealthy Growth" city option. (Jean Elcard)
76. Haste is persistent so long as you start your turn in a tile with a unit capable of casting Haste.
77. When Haste does eventually wear off, all units suffer the Fatigued promotion (no longer a Centaur specific penalty).
78. Extended End of Winter option included (replaces old End of Winter) - see this post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7438216&postcount=122) for details (Jean Elcard)
79. Erebus-Wrap script removed.
80. Erebus Mapscript now includes options for "World Wrap" and "Soften Peak Percentage" (Jean Elcard)

W00t, release! A game as the Scions started me near Patrian Artifacts, Dragon Bones, a ruined city, a river and a nice number of plains hills - this version looks good! :)

Ah, excellent, finally one of the mods I was waiting on to be updated has been updated. Downloading now! :goodjob:

wheeee finally its out...

-Was glancing at the naval changes though--it said that privateers gain 25% against transport ships, which I believe are the galley, galleon, queen of the line.
Is there a typo in your pedia entry that it gains 25% against Carracks?
Isn't Carracks supposed to be the escort/warship type unit during the sailing era?
Though they are of slightly higher base strength of 9 compared to privateers, the 25% puts privateers almost on par with Carracks :confused: not to mention the additional 20% withdrawal.

-Also, you might want to update your pedia entries for Archery Range, Hunting Lodge etc to say that they raise the corresponding passive XP caps. Its kind of confusing to have to refer back to your changelog to get the correct (I assume thats the intended one) details.

-mmm... might want to add what the new Force I does from your changelog to the pedia--its kind of cryptic at the moment.
As for the Force II spell (which was the reworked Force I spell), could I also recommend a rewording of the pedia entry? It did take a while to decipher it when I saw it back in the previous patches when it was added -- a somewhat layman explanation of what it does could help instead of the somewhat "technical" looking entry.

On the whole its looking good ^^ just minor updates to the pedia needed I guess =D

Gonna mess around with the Scions in a bit to see how much has been changed--you guys have effectively squashed any chances of me catching up on lost sleep over the weekend~

Wow! There goes my evening =) Thanks to all the FF team for putting so much effort into this mod...

Ok, time to go play my first 0.43 game... goodbye outside world!

You've made my night. :)

I started playing, but then decided that I shouldn't for a few days or else I'd probably fail the tests I have Monday.


Why did the Scions have 3 apparently identical versions of Training Yards buildable?

(Note: I suppose I could have caused some problems by not doing a fresh install of FfH first. I'm not sure if my changes could have messed things up.)

mine's a "clean" version of FfH and I see 3 yards on the tech tree too--not really an issue just minor cleaning up needed haha :lol:

Wooohooo!!! *jacks in, lost in the FFHFF matrix* :lol:

anyone else with vista crashing when they try to init a game?(.43)

Note on the "No Worker XP" Gameoption: It only disabled the XP from attributes of the worker (Apptitude), not from Buildings. So anyone who Mod-mod-mod's the game to have buildings which grant XP caps for workers will see Workers gaining XP even with the gameoption enabled, but only if they sit in a city with the proper buildings.

-Also, you might want to update your pedia entries for Archery Range, Hunting Lodge etc to say that they raise the corresponding passive XP caps. Its kind of confusing to have to refer back to your changelog to get the correct (I assume thats the intended one) details.


Archery Range doesn't do a cap, it is the Fletcher which does. Hunting Lodges though are a small typo in the XML causing them not to work.

anyone else with vista crashing when they try to init a game?(.43)

I'm using Vista, and as noted elsewhere mine crashes as the game is creating the map. So not the exact same thing, but still the only time I have had crash problems with FFH.

Archery Range doesn't do a cap, it is the Fletcher which does. Hunting Lodges though are a small typo in the XML causing them not to work.

46. "Archery Range" renamed to "Fletcher".
47. New building "Archery Range", requires Archery, +10 Passive XP Cap for Archer.

So which is a typo? :)

Well, the current XML and release has the Fletcher granting the XP cap. It would make sense that it was intended for the Archery Range to do so instead however, as it is somewhere you go to train, and a Fletcher is something you require to BECOME.

Also, about the Well: It is useful as a health boosting building, however it is more expensive than the Herbalist but considerably less powerful. Perhaps either a slight boost or slight hammer cost reduction would be in order?

anyone else with vista crashing when they try to init a game?(.43)

yep :( crashes after i select my civ and settings and click 'Start'. as soon as i click start it insta-CTDs :(

halp!

Patch A (http://grahamcox.co.uk/ffh/fallfurther/FF043-PatchA.exe)
1. Archery Ranges now correctly provide the Archer Training, not Fletchers.
2. Typo on Hunting Lodge and House of the Grey fixed (now allows training correctly).
3. Cost of Well reduced to 60.
4. Default Building for "BUILDINGCLASS_BARRACKS" is now "Barracks", not "Training Yard".
5. Default Building for "BUILDINGCLASS_JOUSTING_TILT" is now "Jousting Tilt", not "Training Yard".
6. Cosmetic issue with grids on ocean not lining up correctly fixed (should have been in the initial release).
7. Combat Log callback re-enabled.

Solves most of the issues reported so far, but probably not the Vista problem. There was a small amount of badly formed XML in the release that could be causing problems for Vista somehow (so it's worth checking), but I suspect that should have caused it to crash on initial loading if anywhere.

If you do have Vista - give it a try and let me know, but it's a long shot. I'm installing Civ on a Vista machine now, but it's borrowed and not particularly high spec, so not sure what it'll make of Civ in general.

I have vista and this is what has been happening for me.

Initially it would go through the map set up and tell me it couldn't unpack the files and would take me in to the game but with no HUD...I installed patch a and now it kicks me out during the map generation.

UAC disabled?

Not sure? Sorry, but I am not the most computer literate person so if you can explain it better then I can check and see. :blush:

Then almost certainly it isn't. The thing was designed for those who are not very computer literate to help prevent programs from taking advantage of you. It just happens to also prevent many programs from doing their job.

Here is a link (http://blogs.msdn.com/tims/archive/2006/09/20/763275.aspx) to information on disabling the UAC, should you want to try it.

I disabled it. It still crashes while trying to Initialize the map. basically I hit the start game and while it is initializing it crashes.

Try this:

Go to where your savegames are stored (most likely ...\My Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\Saves\single).

In the folder Auto, you should find a file named AutoSave_Initial_AD-0001. Delete this file. Then try to start a game of FF. After it crashes, check this folder to see if the file was re-created. If the file exists again, try to load it and see if the game works from that point in.

Ok, did that. After the crash I went back to the folder and there was no file. :(

It wasn't re-created for me... damn.

First off...

Damn you guys are good. I prefer to play this Modmod over the vanilla (may lord Kael and his host (no offense to the devs intended if they are cooler than Kael) overlook this trangession).

Had a blast as Cualli, saving the rainforest and pwning the human scum HOWEVER I had a memory allocation error anytime I reloaded my autosave (of course i reloaded due to massive meteor strikes in my hometown, not due to losing Nietz the Bandit Lord to a puny warrior who stood a 2% at living,...dammit)

Thanks for the kick ass mod guys!

Yours Truly,

*some other guy than Deadliver the Mighty Morphin Save/Load Hor*

edit: this was before patch a

Ok, so the file not being created just helps to isolate how early the crash is happening. Doesn't help you immediately, but cuts about half the guesswork out of the equation for us :)


Could someone post a save that isn't loading properly for me? and/or describe precisely what the game was like at that point? I've loaded the game up and did an immediate save/load, worked fine. Settled a city and tried again, still worked fine. So something isn't saving properly for you, but it is something that doesn't exist till later in the game I guess.

Could someone post a save that isn't loading properly for me? and/or describe precisely what the game was like at that point? I've loaded the game up and did an immediate save/load, worked fine. Settled a city and tried again, still worked fine. So something isn't saving properly for you, but it is something that doesn't exist till later in the game I guess.

If it was a MAF rather than "failed to unpack", odds are it's the base Civ/BtS issue with save files. Was it a long game or a large map, Deadliver?

-Was glancing at the naval changes though--it said that privateers gain 25% against transport ships, which I believe are the galley, galleon, queen of the line.
Is there a typo in your pedia entry that it gains 25% against Carracks?
Isn't Carracks supposed to be the escort/warship type unit during the sailing era?
Though they are of slightly higher base strength of 9 compared to privateers, the 25% puts privateers almost on par with Carracks :confused: not to mention the additional 20% withdrawal.


=P since Vehem's here and my old post seems to be buried by the enthusiasm about 043 this is a shameless bump about an old query

=P since Vehem's here and my old post seems to be buried by the enthusiasm about 043 this is a shameless bump about an old query

Aye - that does sound wrong. I'll take a poke at it shortly (I've finally managed to get a working install of Vista, with Civ installed - now to bug hunt the FF issue...)

Good luck Vehem...I am really wanting to play the mod but just can't get it to work for me :(

npnp... take your time lol~ Thanks for the speedy reply

Main Download Here - Version 043 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8500)
No Current Patch



Bold - Me

Post 1. Thought I might save some people who don't scroll down to the next post some confusion

Bold - Me

Post 1. Thought I might save some people who don't scroll down to the next post some confusion

Thanks - sorted.

You know, last week, I came back to this forum and thought 'I really want a game of FF'... And then realised I had the wrong version of FfH. And lo and behold, you bring out the next version! :D

In FfH, the Governor's manor give you one hammer per population. That is, it counts unhappy people before applying happiness to them. In FF, you have changed it so that it is only unhappy people after happiness is applied that gives you a hammer. And the manor also gives you 1 unhappiness, and reduces maintenance only 20%.

So, Courthouse gives -40% maintenance, whereas the Governor's manor gives -20% maintenance, -25% war weariness and -1 happiness (and +1 hammer for non-working citizens).

Basically, building a courthouse, when you are at maximum population for a given happiness removes one worker, and replaces him/her with 1 hammer :( Not so useful. If you think +1 hammer per population was too much in FfH, I think you should make it having actual unhappy citizens more useful. Like give them beakers (experimenting on citizens) or more hammers (like +2).

Edit:

I take that back. It works fine, display is incorrect.

I have a Pop 8 city. It has:

8 unhappy + 1 building unhappy = 9.
4 Happy (just because) + 2 happy from buildings (bear + capital) = 6.

So 6 Happy, 9 unhappy, and 8 citizens total.
5 are working, and 3 are sad faces. My hammers are reported as:
4 working + 3 from sad faces = 7 total. But the total applied is 13. Totally confused here.

So, 9-6 = 3 unhappy, 5 happy. The 5 working yield 4 hammers. 13-4=9. So, it is actually giving 1 per unhappy, which is 1 more than the population, since the manor gives 1 extra unhappy. So it works the same as FfH, but the display is incorrect. So I guess I am happy :)


195181

In FfH, the Governor's manor give you one hammer per population. That is, it counts unhappy people before applying happiness to them. In FF, you have changed it so that it is only unhappy people after happiness is applied that gives you a hammer. And the manor also gives you 1 unhappiness, and reduces maintenance only 20%.

....

So it works the same as FfH, but the display is incorrect. So I guess I am happy :)


195181


This one has been thrown around quite a bit - and I'm still not sure it's actually working in a way that makes sense. I know that Kael and Xien have both made changes to it in past versions - one of which will have caused the display to be off I think.

The current version (the way it works, not what it displays) is effectively +1 Hammer for every member of the population, + extra hammers for any building that annoys them.

The other way (which I actually think would be the correct way) is that there are a certain number of citizens who are so unhappy that they refuse to work (the citizens over the happy cap). The Governor's Manor forces these malcontents to actually do some work - even if it's only a single hammer each.

====

That aside, if it were to work in the second way, it would need rebalancing on the points that you mentioned. -40% Maintenance (same as Courthouse), -25% War Weariness and removing the +1 Unhappy altogether should do the trick there.

This one has been thrown around quite a bit - and I'm still not sure it's actually working in a way that makes sense. I know that Kael and Xien have both made changes to it in past versions - one of which will have caused the display to be off I think.

The current version (the way it works, not what it displays) is effectively +1 Hammer for every member of the population, + extra hammers for any building that annoys them.

The other way (which I actually think would be the correct way) is that there are a certain number of citizens who are so unhappy that they refuse to work (the citizens over the happy cap). The Governor's Manor forces these malcontents to actually do some work - even if it's only a single hammer each.

====

That aside, if it were to work in the second way, it would need rebalancing on the points that you mentioned. -40% Maintenance (same as Courthouse), -25% War Weariness and removing the +1 Unhappy altogether should do the trick there.

Kael has said that the way it currently works is the intended function, mainly because unhappy people over your happy cap aren't worth 1 hammer. How often do you work desert hill tiles (1 hammer and nothing else)? 1 hammer from each unhappy citizen is effectively the same.

I like the current version, but I do wish it would display properly so I didn't have to guess at my actual production.

I like the current version, but I do wish it would display properly so I didn't have to guess at my actual production.

Same thing goes for the Necropolis' production bonus.

Both require only relatively simple changes to MainInterface.py fortunately. Main issue is just realizing they aren't displaying, then finding the line which ought to do so :) Could be DLLWidgetData.cpp instead though, since they are mouseover text slots.

ive got vista and patch a means i am able to start a game, but there is no interface. i can still play though hotkeys but thats no fun. especially with scions who i have no idea how they work lol

EDIT: to my amazement , when i alt tabed back into my scion game the interface was there! WOOT!

EDIT 2: im getting -1243074 gold a turn O_O on turn 47

EDIT 3: all my units have infinite Experience, able to get every single promotion on turn 1.

EDIT 4: cannot explore barrows (no option to explore) or dungeons (explore spell greyed out)

EDIT 5: oops i didnt realise there was a bug thread lol moving these to that :p sorry.

Still working on Vista - but not much luck so far.
Thanks to everyone who has offered help or feedback to solve this one - we'll keep trying.

Patch B (http://grahamcox.co.uk/ffh/fallfurther/FF043-PatchB.exe)
1. Fixed Archos melee line (no longer requires Barracks).
2. GameOption added for CombatLog.
3. Brigit Animations fixed.
4. City "Mini-Interface" fixed.
5. Fixed issue with Scions "Unhealthy Discontent".
6. Fixed a couple of issues relating to Korrina.
7. Governor's Manor display accurately reflects bonus production.

great work mate, cant wait to try. keep it up

Still working on Vista - but not much luck so far.
Thanks to everyone who has offered help or feedback to solve this one - we'll keep trying.


Thanks for you hard work and nice mod.!:)

crap, patch B breaks saves O_O

Hey, good news, the mod is finally out! :) One question though, is it compatible with Orbis? Probably not but i've just had to ask as the guilds in Orbis seem pretty neat. Thanks for a great mod. Any plans to integrate Scions of Patria and/or Legion of D'Tesh?

The mod has Scions of Patria in it right now.

Hey, good news, the mod is finally out! :) One question though, is it compatible with Orbis? Probably not but i've just had to ask as the guilds in Orbis seem pretty neat. Thanks for a great mod. Any plans to integrate Scions of Patria and/or Legion of D'Tesh?

The Scions have been integrated in this version, and the Jotnar will hopefully be in the next one... Not sure about the Legion, it's still basically a beta.

Hey, good news, the mod is finally out! :) One question though, is it compatible with Orbis? Probably not but i've just had to ask as the guilds in Orbis seem pretty neat. Thanks for a great mod. Any plans to integrate Scions of Patria and/or Legion of D'Tesh?

Can't think of any way to word this without sounding rather "stuck up" about it, but there is not a chance that this mod is ever compatible with any other mod, they have to make themselves compatible with us. There is just FAR too much that we have changed, so if there is something we like enough to go through any effort with it, we just kinda absorb it (hello Scions... and their Creator...)

Can't think of any way to word this without sounding rather "stuck up" about it, but there is not a chance that this mod is ever compatible with any other mod, they have to make themselves compatible with us. There is just FAR too much that we have changed, so if there is something we like enough to go through any effort with it, we just kinda absorb it (hello Scions... and their Creator...)

Hehe, now I have an image in my mind of Fall Further as this giant, B-movie blob, carving a path of devastation through some unfortunate forum and absorbing everything in it's path, growing bigger and bigger as it progresses. :p

Hehe, now I have an image in my mind of Fall Further as this giant, B-movie blob, carving a path of devastation through some unfortunate forum and absorbing everything in it's path, growing bigger and bigger as it progresses. :p

Exactly. Watch out for the forum blob! I recognized the blob too late when it was approaching me ...

Why is the Seven Pines back to providing Enchantment Mana? I thought we agreed that Force Mana fits bests, and that Law and Life were much more appropriate than Enchantment.

Yes, kind of odd is it not?

There is just FAR too much that we have changed, so if there is something we like enough to go through any effort with it, we just kinda absorb it (hello Scions... and their Creator...)

:wavey:

The Risen Emperor, for his part, thanks you for all the work you guys did on his mod previous to his formal Awakening.

Im having problems in the interface. First game, there was no utility bar, no info, no turns past, no armaggedon counter, no map, no anything. I couldnt play at all because I couldnt even settle my first settler. Another game. Im playing the scions and I get an awakened. I cant add them to the city, but I can make another city. Then, I met the Elohim. She (leader) didnt say anything and there were no options for declaring war or making peace, basically making me stuck in that screen.

Anybody else having the same problems?

Sounds like you're either on Vista, or didn't reset all the FFH game options... Might have a few of the hidden options enabled. If so, just start a quick game.. It'll clear all the options, and then you can go back in and set them.

Quickgame didnt work. Now, my units have the unit upgrade glow all the time, and I can upgrade them and give them any promotion, itll gain a level, and ill still be able to upgrade until there are no more promos left. I doubt its because I have Vista, because I never had a problem with any mod or any game that warns me about Vista. Thanks anyways though. Ill try reinstalling.

Quickgame didnt work. Now, my units have the unit upgrade glow all the time, and I can upgrade them and give them any promotion, itll gain a level, and ill still be able to upgrade until there are no more promos left. I doubt its because I have Vista, because I never had a problem with any mod or any game that warns me about Vista. Thanks anyways though. Ill try reinstalling.

Ah, actually it IS because of Vista. Several people have been reporting the same issues, and Vehem and Xienwolf are working on fixing... Could be a little while, depends on what the issue actually is.

Ok, I guess ill just have to wait a while.

As long as you have unlimited XP though, could you verify that you can ALWAYS take another promotion? There is a special promotion that doesn't do anything which should become available when you run out of real promotions.

yes there is one promotion left when you reach the end... and it keeps poping up.

Yippie :) The culmination of a couple of my toys in the code which weren't getting used for anything else :)

BTW, if anyone wanted to you COULD give that promotion stats and they would get applied each time. Make it +5% strength or something and it's like the Future Tech of Promotions ;)

Sounds like it should be more in line with +1/+1 str/def or better..! If a unit's lived that long and gained that much xp it deserves a really good end promotion. :D

Can't run FF at all woth patch B. Crashes at(or before) the map generation no matter what settings I use or who I play.. Is there any way I could log the process so you guys can figure out what's wrong?

Edit: Vista Business +SP1

How large is the download?

Patch C (http://grahamcox.co.uk/ffh/fallfurther/FF043-PatchC.exe)
1. Great Person Progress bar readded to MainInterface.
2. Feat added to track when Alcinus builds his keep.
3. Fixed exploit where Alcinus could potentially build multiple keeps after being resurrected.
4. Frostlings will now display properly in the pedia.
5. Scions Dark Council will now only be spawned at the correct time.


====

Haven't run this one against Vista yet, but I'd imagine no change (though there have been some changes in the DLL so it's worth a long-shot).


My main plan for Vista now is to create a DLL with a decent amount of logging code in to help track down where exactly the problem is. I've looked at the stack trace and there's no help there. At the moment it's pretty much the only thing I'm personally looking at though (the rest of the team have done all the work to provide the patch-fixes so far).

Wish I had better news to give you - but hopefully the logging will reveal something.

I can confirm that patch C still doesn't work with Vista. shame on you, Vista! :lol:

Hey, Running vista,
Unfortunately still dose not work, gives the "program not responding" Error
I Run it as an administrator,
Turned DEP off for it as well, doubt that's the problem since it usually give a DEP error.

Patch B
Game main menu loads fine.
Play a game going through standard settings,
Stalls after initial loading screen, creating map.

If a customized game is used with advanced starting selected, the game will load up correctly let you pick a place to build a city, place units, all the menus I checked worked.
After clicking begin it stalls.

Patch C
Game main menu loads fine.
Play a game going through standard settings, or advanced settings.
Stalls after initial loading screen, creating map.

I'll go fool around with the debug settings and see if I can give a more exact error report.

If a customized game is used with advanced starting selected, the game will load up correctly let you pick a place to build a city, place units, all the menus I checked worked.
After clicking begin it stalls.


Now that is interesting - and possibly very useful. Thanks for that - will try it out and see if I can learn anything that way.

Any chance Scions of Patria will include a haunted lands graphic suggestion soon. On the Scions download forum a person suggested that haunted lands should have an aura, which would be the green cloud a city gets when its sick but recolored to be fog like. Yeah its only a graphical change but a little goes a long way and I think most players would appreciate that. Anyways if its included in like the next few patches that would be awesome.

EDIT: Now that I have covered my whole base in haunted lands, I must say, it looks TERRIBLE. Now granted the design for haunted lands is not bad at all, but when you have 100's of tiles covered in them it's rather unapealing. So I beg of your development team, make it so haunted lands does NOT spawn the trees in a non tree tile it just covers it with fog, and if it is spawned in a tree tile, make it so there are several tree patterns for haunted lands so it all doesn't look the same. But again, it NEEDS the fog to make the haunted part, without it it's just "lands".

Oh and please Tarqueline (I think thats how you spell it) can you make a short guide on how the Scions work, it could just be a pdf. That would be awesome for new Scions players. I will admit, when I first started it took me forever to figure things out, took me hours to figure out you can spread haunted lands with Ghost Walkers. So a short and sweet guide explaining all the features would be greatly appreciated!

I must say I was scared to play your mod as for the most part I dislike playing non official mod-mod's. Fall Further being an exception. But after trying it in fall further I am amazed at how great a mod it is and all the unique little features you put in it. Two of my favorites are giving Centeni the headless promotion. I was scared to do it on the first game I played because I thought it would be weird having a unit with the headless promotion that is living AND still has a head. Until I actually got the promotion only to find out that it made them undead, their skin rot slightly, and beheaded them! I was so exited to see that. Also ghostwalkers turning that funky blueish color with that glow is to cool in the haunted lands. These little things exite me!

Downloaded Patch C and started a game up as Scions. Also running Vista.


-Game is pretty off and on about freezing up and not responding during map generation, and during this current game it seemed as if it froze up again and I tabbed out to open up my browser, and then tabbed back in to a ready and waiting map. It could have been me just being impatient or tabbing in and out could have had something to do with it.

-Upon city founding Swamp-dwelling and Seafaring were available to me

-I started at -1243060gp/t and at 0% research, and when I increased research output to 100%, the -gp/t increased but had no real effect. The next turn though my research went back to 0%

-The ability to make my Awakened join my city is greyed out although that could be because of a Scions mechanic that I'm not aware of.

-Got the Korinna message at Turn 1 but no Korinna unit

-Also got the infinite promotions for my starting Centeni and Velite, and while my Velite upgraded all the way to xienwolf's "future tech"-esque promotion, my Centeni stopped gaining at level 12 after I grabbed the Headless promotion even though promotions still looked like they were available

-Something in general that I've noticed is that interacting with other leaders takes a ridiculously long amount of time because while their window pops up, options for interaction (ie: ask them about other leaders, or open up the deal window) take forever to show up. In fact I haven't actually waited long enough to see how long or even if those options show up at all as I often just hit escape to close the window and continue with the game.

EDIT: just realized I posted these in the wrong thread :\

Just downloading this now, but was looking at the change log. I notice that haste lasts as long as you have someone in the group able to cast it, any plan on adding other spells like this(a natural seems to be the new acceleration force1 spell). Of course you might already have done that. :)

I also worry slightly about the archery range + jousting field happiness with whats already a great civic in aristocracy. I'll have to play a game or two with them to see how powerful it is.

it seems that when i play custom game.. if i disable certain civ i can get to the map with infinite experience...

other times it will get stuck in the initiation stage...

will have to try loading civ one by one... but dont have the time flying out in the morning tommorow and wont be back till dec1

Regarding the haunted land gfx...would it be too g-card nuking to have a blue tinged terrain tile with a ghostly looking smoke effect? By that I mean the smoke effect with ghosts in it?

Otherwise, how about the haunted lands being shrouded by a mist?

edit: oh yeah,:bowdown:

Any chance Scions of Patria will include a haunted lands graphic suggestion soon.

I believe the only obstacle keeping us from a better HL graphic is my inability to make one. I'll take another stab at it, though, using a different method. (And probably actually boning up on the subject.)


Oh and please Tarqueline (I think thats how you spell it) can you make a short guide on how the Scions work, it could just be a pdf.

Did you see the Scions documentation thread? (Put up late yesterday.) When I'm done revising it I'll probably make an html file for inclusion in FF.

Until I actually got the promotion only to find out that it made them undead, their skin rot slightly, and beheaded them! .... Also ghostwalkers turning that funky blueish color with that glow is to cool in the haunted lands.

Those are a couple of my favorite "touches" too. Glad you like them.

on the paper wandering sage are under national unit limit - 4 - but in reality you can build them as much as you wish.

...and in one occasion I got 2 (two) artifacts from lair,

I just noticed that the ice spells were divided into two groups. I've been on an Illian binge of late, using my snowfall casting archmagi to blast my enemy to icy bits. Reviewing the changelog, snowfall is now a level 3 devine spell and no longer available to archmagi (oh nooooo!! jk). The only priests available to the Illians are the Priests of Winter.

Do these guys eventually gain a third level to be able to cast snowfall?

Quick question, what do fletchers currently do, 2 exp to archery units?

2nd point, The training buildings seem much more useful for people who don't have civics/buildings that give free exp already(as it takes very few turns with a training yard to get to level 2). So currently it acts as a slightly slower version of that. I'm not sure if its intended to be so much less useful with those civics/buildings? I guess the intent was for it to be for builders rather than warmongers.

Doesn't this fact basically mean that its relatively useless for high level ai's, if they are starting with 8 or so exp for free? I guess one fix would be to track free exp(civics/buildings/ai bonus) vs earned exp(either training or combat), and have the training buildings take you to free + 10 at the current rate they take you to 10?

I don't believe that Snowfall was ever available to mere Priests of Winter. It was always level 3, available only to High Priests of Winter (and Auric Ascended, but that is technically a seperate spell). Priests of Winter get upgraded the same way all the other priests do.


Fletchers make archers buildable. They also provide the city a small defensive bonus, but they don't effect xp. They are basically what archery ranges are in vanilla FfH.

I tend to think that giving the AI an increase in the training rate and/or xp based on levels could be a good idea.

Regarding the haunted land gfx...would it be too g-card nuking to have a blue tinged terrain tile with a ghostly looking smoke effect? By that I mean the smoke effect with ghosts in it?

Otherwise, how about the haunted lands being shrouded by a mist?

edit: oh yeah,:bowdown:

I love your idea! Each tile would have to be a different shaped and number of ghosts though, it would make it repetiative if it was the same. Maybe even 1/4 of the tiles have ghosts, it would just be a visual effect.

Also blue tinted terrain would be awesome, while it might take a while to make I would be MORE than happy to have blueish or grey fog as a replacement.

Quick question, what do fletchers currently do, 2 exp to archery units?

2nd point, The training buildings seem much more useful for people who don't have civics/buildings that give free exp already(as it takes very few turns with a training yard to get to level 2). So currently it acts as a slightly slower version of that. I'm not sure if its intended to be so much less useful with those civics/buildings? I guess the intent was for it to be for builders rather than warmongers.

Doesn't this fact basically mean that its relatively useless for high level ai's, if they are starting with 8 or so exp for free? I guess one fix would be to track free exp(civics/buildings/ai bonus) vs earned exp(either training or combat), and have the training buildings take you to free + 10 at the current rate they take you to 10?

Yes, the free XP from Difficulty level means that Training XP is nearly useless to the AI. It may be worthwhile to move the Difficulty settings from flat out free XP to instead be a TrainingXP rate/cap for all unitcombats, but for now I'm decently happy with how it works. The AI takes the free XP they gain into account when deciding how much value to place in a building which grants an XP cap/rate bonus.

And yes, the instant XP from Civics and a few base FfH buildings are meant for the warmongers, get something now, get to work. Training XP is meant for the builders, invest heavily, bide your time, get a larger payoff. The difference in level you can reach isn't very severe, but that is because this is only the first part of the builder enhancement we are working on. Next chunk will be huge and significant, hopefully making that playstyle become a valid option.

Patch D (http://grahamcox.co.uk/ffh/fallfurther/FF043-PatchD.exe)
1. Haunted Lands graphics updated.
2. Brigit Scale/Animation updated.
3. Austrin Recurve Archers buildable again.
4. Scions event triggers fixed (shouldn't trigger for team mates)
5. Scions pedia/help text updated for some units.
6. Missing "goody" text key added.
7. Hauntstalk artstyle temporarily disabled (solves artstyle issues with some Scions units).
8. Scions cannot build cottages on desert-city tiles.
9. Included some fixes that should have been in from FfH Patch H but were missed.

oh... and 10. Vista works.

Fletchers make archers buildable. They also provide the city a small defensive bonus, but they don't effect xp. They are basically what archery ranges are in vanilla FfH.

My question was due to the fact I was playing dwarves(khazad), and I could build the dwarven archer replacement without having the fletcher. Should perhaps make the building not available for dwarves(and with rock hurling units, fletchers don't really make sense anyhow)?

I could have sworn at some point in FF(or it could have been some other modmod I guess), that archery ranges were removed as a requirment for archers, and instead gave free xp.

Yes, vista is working now (with patch D), I can finally get past the map generation screen. :crazyeye: :goodjob: .

Out of sheer curiosity, what was bugging up vista in the first place?

Woooooo, I can finally play! Thanks! :crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye:

Yes, vista is working now (with patch D), I can finally get past the map generation screen. :crazyeye: :goodjob: .

Out of sheer curiosity, what was bugging up vista in the first place?

An overflow error in the DLL, which XP ignored but Vista decided was a potential security flaw (which technically it could have been). Once that was dealt with, problem solved.

Kinda odd that Vista's approach to dealing with "potential security flaws" is to crash the program without feedback though...

An overflow error in the DLL, which XP ignored but Vista decided was a potential security flaw (which technically it could have been). Once that was dealt with, problem solved.

Kinda odd that Vista's approach to dealing with "potential security flaws" is to crash the program without feedback though...

Nah, that sounds par for the course as far as Vista is concerned.

Nah, that sounds par for the course as far as Vista is concerned.

Bad would be it reports you to Homeland Security.

My buddy's copy of Vista filed a lawsuit against him. You can check to see if the same thing happened to you by clicking on MySubpoenas.

Current Version Changelog

Patch D (http://grahamcox.co.uk/ffh/fallfurther/FF043-PatchD.exe)
1. Haunted Lands graphics updated.
2. Brigit Scale/Animation updated.
3. Austrin Recurve Archers buildable again.
4. Scions event triggers fixed (shouldn't trigger for team mates)
5. Scions pedia/help text updated for some units.
6. Missing "goody" text key added.
7. Hauntstalk artstyle temporarily disabled (solves artstyle issues with some Scions units).
8. Scions cannot build cottages on desert-city tiles.
9. Included some fixes that should have been in from FfH Patch H but were missed.

oh... and 10. Vista works.
(Jean Elcard)

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:
Thanks so much. That was fast.

Oh my gosh! You updated haunted lands already! I LOVE YOU!

*Crosses fingers and PRAYS it doesn't break my turn 300+ scions game*



IT BROKE MY SAVE AAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THATS THE SECOND SCIONS GAME THAT BROKE WRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGG!!!!!

*Calms down*

A warning when the patch breaks the game would be kick butt.

OMFG WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT *plays all day*

after 150 turns as Scions i have STILL not got any awakened or reborn or whatever theyre called spawn from my capital. its VERY irritating having to build every single population point in the capital.

Is the In-game flag supposed to show the Current Patch the game is running? If so, I can't get anything past patch A to instal.

Patch C had erroneously stated it was also patch A, but yes... if you install Patch B or D it will state that it is patch B or D properly.

after 150 turns as Scions i have STILL not got any awakened

An upcoming version will have the % per turn of an Awakened spawning. To increase the odds you can:

Add to capital's population
Get Patrian Artifact resources (each increases the odds)
Get other luxury resources (most increase the odds)
Build Shrines to Kylorin, Temples of the Gift/Imperial Cenotaphs, Halls of the Covenant, or the Flesh Studio
Switch to Aristocracy

Legates can "capture" Reborn via combat.

If you're aware of all that... then you should treasure the fact that luck has handed you a challenging game. :)

Add to capital's population
Get Patrian Artifact resources (each increases the odds)
Get other luxury resources (most increase the odds)
Build Shrines to Kylorin, Temples of the Gift/Imperial Cenotaphs, Halls of the Covenant, or the Flesh Studio
Switch to Aristocracy

i had pop 4,
5 patrian artifacts
silk, gold and gems
and shrine of kylorin and still nill. :( there should be a maximum period between spawns i think. if it goes too long without a spawn regardless of the factors it should pop one anyway.

I have got absolutely no pbms of awakened spawning in my current game. Having numerous small cities (+a big capital) building the spawning buildings worked well for me. (patch B game)

Previous game spawned regular save broken with patch D and no spawning at all yet in new game?

In true tradition :) posted went back to play and up popped an awakened :)

I am getting CTDs whenever I reload. Although I dont reload too much, it is still a problem.

How long would you guess it would be until the next patch comes out? I'm trying to decide if I should go ahead and merge my changes into FF or wait for a more stable version so I don't have to do it all over.

Probably be a little while, but as for the next patch being more stable, that is anyone's guess. I'd say update to what we have now, and any more updating required for future patches will be that much easier.

How long would you guess it would be until the next patch comes out? I'm trying to decide if I should go ahead and merge my changes into FF or wait for a more stable version so I don't have to do it all over.

Probably be a little while, but as for the next patch being more stable, that is anyone's guess. I'd say update to what we have now, and any more updating required for future patches will be that much easier.

Aye - the best way is going to be to do what we do with the main FfH patches. Don't apply them, but compare them to the base FfH XML/Python and make the same changes in the FF files directly.

Got another bug. Dunespeak promo doesnt fully work. No support works in desert inside borders, but as I moved my stack into another desert right outside of my border, I lost 23 gold per turn even though my units had the promo.

That would be unit supply cost, not unit support costs. Unit Support always applies, but Unit Supply only applies to military units outside of your territory. So it still saves you money, but doesn't make them completely free.

Looking forward to the new patch, what does Gift of Succor do?

Possible exploit involving Korrina the Red Lady.... She is supposed to be living, and therefore unable to promote to Implacable or Cannibalize, but if you use a Redactor's Grant Gift spell you can make her undead, with all the benefits you can get from it, and still gain her Immortal promotion.

Was playing as Mazatl and noticed that Assassins still have the human graphic.

Looking forward to the new patch, what does Gift of Succor do?

I believe that's a spell that allows Pelemoc to take the sick from a city as Reborn without causing war... Was an idea that was tossed around in the Scions thread.

Not sure if this has been said before but why can't I build light of lugus? Im +500 good as Varn Gosam. Empryian religion. Have all the required techs. The ritual is in my city screen but its greyed out and unable to build.

Heres the wierd part, I think I was somehow effected by the chosen of esus ritual, the screen is darker and all my units have the ability to hide with the shroud of Esus.

Its really wierd. Someone tell me what the HECK happened!

Not sure if this has been said before but why can't I build light of lugus? Im +500 good as Varn Gosam. Empryian religion. Have all the required techs. The ritual is in my city screen but its greyed out and unable to build.

Heres the wierd part, I think I was somehow effected by the chosen of esus ritual, the screen is darker and all my units have the ability to hide with the shroud of Esus.

Its really wierd. Someone tell me what the HECK happened!

There must still be something stopping the casting of rituals. I am unable to use any at this point.

I'm thinking that letting Basium summon a second Mercurian Civ including a second Basium by building the Mercurian Gate when playing the game with the option to unlock the Mercurian civ is probably inappropriate. It shouldn't be too hard to place a block requiring the Mercurians not have entered the game in order to build the gate.


I also think that you should set it up so that when a religion is founded by spreading though a spell (like the Found Temples and Spread Council of Esus spells) or by being placed when a city is built (in the case of the Infernals being playable from the start and thus introducing AV long before Corruption of Spirit is researched) the first city should become the Holy City, just like when a religion is founded by a disciple rescued from a dungeon.

Did you disable the ability to liberate colonies? I haven't been able to do that in my recent games.

(hmmm...that just got me thinking, if I can't get my old plan of how to lat you liberate any city as a colony instead of just those on seperate continents to work I could probably create a spell with a similar effect.)

Ack. You bumped the download thread. I got all excited that maybe patch E was available. Oh well.

Fall Further doesn't work for me. Multiple downloads, multiple install attempts.

I have newest version of fall from heaven. Newest patch. H I believe.

I install Fall Further. Try to run it. Crashes on entrance of a game.

I install the Fall Further patch. I can enter a game, but every unit has unlimited xp upgrades, science doesn't work, and the gold is -8348325236 per turn, but doesn't actually effect the gold I have.

When I start with the patch, there is also no interface. If I alt tab then it will come back.

I am running Vista.

Fall from Heaven works perfectly for me.

Sounds like exactly what Vista was facing before patch D. Which patch are you trying to use?

patch d. Patch D actually lets me into the game, but I get the no console, and then unlimited upgrades for units, and the -1243535 gold problem

patch d. Patch D actually lets me into the game, but I get the no console, and then unlimited upgrades for units, and the -1243535 gold problem

There's a possible issue with Vista not allowing some files to be overwritten if you've installed Civ "For All Users", have UAC turned on and your current account is a limited account.

That would allow a partial patch, but I don't think it would allow a DLL to be overwritten in that case - it counts as an executable or program file. As Vista protects those from being changed by users with insufficient privileges, it may not have updated correctly.

Does that resemble your setup? (UAC, Non-Admin Accounts, Installed for all users)

There's a possible issue with Vista not allowing some files to be overwritten if you've installed Civ "For All Users", have UAC turned on and your current account is a limited account.

That would allow a partial patch, but I don't think it would allow a DLL to be overwritten in that case - it counts as an executable or program file. As Vista protects those from being changed by users with insufficient privileges, it may not have updated correctly.

Does that resemble your setup? (UAC, Non-Admin Accounts, Installed for all users)

I have UAC off.

So is the expanded alignment implemented yet? The Pedia text still says only religion alters alignment, so I'm not sure.

Broader Alignments used to be in every FF game, but when Xienwolf joined the team he made BA a game option, that was FF 042 I believe.

So is it an option in Fall Further?

Yes, it's towards the bottom of the options list.

BIG BIG BIG BIG graphic annoyance. I have campaigned for this change since the dawn of man yet nothing has been done on vanilla ffh2. So I take this to the people of fall further.

Can the FF dev team PLEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAASE make a new Arquebruisers (I believe thats how its spelt) graphic. Its used so often in the endgame I feel that it is really odd for it to look like it came from the pilgrims of the 1500's. So please consider a change to make it a bit more fantasy like. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW FFH2 Ice changelog has been released!!!!!!!

Can the FF dev team PLEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAASE make a new Arquebruisers (I believe thats how its spelt) graphic. Its used so often in the endgame I feel that it is really odd for it to look like it came from the pilgrims of the 1500's. So please consider a change to make it a bit more fantasy like. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!


If you can point us in the direction of some suitable units, we'd love to include them. There just seems to be a lack so far. I have only vague model editing knowledge (creating/skinning components such as weapons or one of Kahd's heads in Blender) and so far as I know none of the others have really experimented too much in that direction.

I might be able to do something with the heads/skins, but it'd be superficial compared to the work SeZ has done on the main units.

If you can point us in the direction of some suitable units, we'd love to include them. There just seems to be a lack so far. I have only vague model editing knowledge (creating/skinning components such as weapons or one of Kahd's heads in Blender) and so far as I know none of the others have really experimented too much in that direction.

I might be able to do something with the heads/skins, but it'd be superficial compared to the work SeZ has done on the main units.

Here is some art taken from the Malakim+ Modular mod in the FF forum, personally I love it, it looks so much better. It has the old age feel with the fantasy flair. Maybe recolor it a little and change a few things, but as of now its marvelous!


EDIT: Quick question, why was sacrifice the weak civic nerfed in this mod? I felt it was fine in vanilla FFH2, the 1.5 food consumed food per population change compared to the 1 per pop is a major nerf. As of now you need a city of 8 just to gain actual benifit from the civic city wise due to the +4 unhealth you inherit, (asuming you already had unhealth) which is really odd because then you have to build health buildings which kind of kills the whole evil sacrifice others civic.

So is their any intent on changing it back? Right now all it does is basically give you an extra population and 10% more gold at the cost of 20% GPP rate, if it was 1 food per pop, like it is in vanilla ffh, then you would benifit much more. 1 less food per 2 population just doesnt cut it when you lose 4 food from the unhealth. But 1 per 1 is much better.

Anyways thats just my thoughts, if you could write back with why the change was implemented in the first place I might change my mind about how it is currently.

Patch E (http://grahamcox.co.uk/ffh/fallfurther/FF043-PatchE.exe)
1. Caravels now upgrade to Frigates.
2. Fixed issue with Divided Souls disappearing after one turn.
3. Scions "Grant Gift" spells can now only be used on living Scions units.
4. Concept entries added to 'pedia for some Scions mechanics.
5. Pelemoc gains "Gift of Succor" spell.
6. Legate, Revenant, Doomsayer and Doomgiver no longer require Emperor's Mark.
7. Emperor's Dagger no longer requires God King.
8. Sons of Asena are now correctly UNITCOMBAT_MELEE.
9. Patrian Bazaar is now a unique Money Changer rather than it's own building class.
10. Spirit Mill now gives happiness from Deer.
11. Shrine to Kylorin now costs 50 hammers (previously 60).
12. Scions UB and UU prereqs handled without reference to TECH_THE_GIFT.
13. Added "True Pilgrim" units (Reborn unit that is buildable with God King)
14. Fixed some graphics issues with Scions units that caused some members of the unit to appear human.
15. Fixed strategy entry for "Glory" civic.
16. Miscast mechanic implemented (when a unit Miscasts, it will gain a "Burnout" promotion. Miscasting is only currently possible when affected by a negative Scions spell)
17. Infernals specific yield 0/1/1 on Burning Sands.
18. Infernals specific yield 0/2/0 on Field of Perdition.
19. Infernals specific yield 0/0/2 on Broken Lands.
20. Improved feedback for promotion degradation.
21. Scions awakening chance added to Main Interface for Scions Civs (next to mana display).
22. Ghastly Dragoon promotion added (undead horsies).
23. Broken Promotion added (recovery mechanic for Ghastly Dragoons).
24. Fixed issue with capturing Brigit and losing promotions.
25. War Elephant upgrades returned to standard upgrade mechanic (<iMinLevel>1 now works correctly).
26. Infernals/Mercurians will only spawn if they have not already been in the game (for cases where players choose to unlock them as starting Civs using the custom civ settings).
27. Fixed XP limit in Worldbuilder (did have low limit due to decimal XP changes, now as before).
28. In One City Challenges, Alcinus's Keep may be constructed in the Capital (normally he's exiled to do his experiments further away from the tomb).
29. Korrina may not be gifted if she chooses the Red Path.
30. Fixed XP issues when converting units from GhostWalker<->Haunt.
31. Fixed Negative Unit Upkeep costs from <iExtraSupport> (used by some Scions units)
32. Fixed Trophy button (was invisible).
33. Improved Defensive AI. AI cities will now defend much more effectively against Barbarians/other players.
34. Increased iFreeUnits allowed per difficulty level (AI was crippling itself when trying to defend against barbarians by having high unit costs).
35. AI much more likely to settle/attack overseas in the early game using Galley units.
36. AI values Education and Sailing more than previously.
37. Haunted Land mechanic reworked. Living units in Haunted Lands may fall victim to a number of "spooky" effects.

oh yeah! thanx for the new patch FF team. time to start a new game :D

Here is some art taken from the Malakim+ Modular mod in the FF forum, personally I love it, it looks so much better. It has the old age feel with the fantasy flair. Maybe recolor it a little and change a few things, but as of now its marvelous!


EDIT: Quick question, why was sacrifice the weak civic nerfed in this mod? I felt it was fine in vanilla FFH2, the 1.5 food consumed food per population change compared to the 1 per pop is a major nerf. As of now you need a city of 8 just to gain actual benifit from the civic city wise due to the +4 unhealth you inherit, (asuming you already had unhealth) which is really odd because then you have to build health buildings which kind of kills the whole evil sacrifice others civic.

So is their any intent on changing it back? Right now all it does is basically give you an extra population and 10% more gold at the cost of 20% GPP rate, if it was 1 food per pop, like it is in vanilla ffh, then you would benifit much more. 1 less food per 2 population just doesnt cut it when you lose 4 food from the unhealth. But 1 per 1 is much better.

Anyways thats just my thoughts, if you could write back with why the change was implemented in the first place I might change my mind about how it is currently.



Quick answer version: No new art so far because none of the team are artists ;) But supplied art like this is always good. I'd like it if they happened to look like the guys from Last Exile personally ;)

And for the civic, it was a hands-down No-Brainer to run it ALL the time if you could. That is why it was changed.

I thought of a new sidar building. Now in the civilopedia in the leader of the sidars page ( I forgot his name) it mentions his figure blending in with the mist, almost as if he were one with them. I thought, why not have a special sidar building that acts as the illian temple of the white hand, but instead adds a mistlike improvement around the city. Like the haunted lands blue aura, but more transperent and grey. This aura would give sidar units within it a 10% withdrawl rate and an extra first strike chance. If something like this was implemented that would be great.

I just always wanted to see the Sidar lands reflect the fact that a good number of them are shades, it would look so cool if this was put in.

Please change the dwarven cannon art, steal it from Orbi's mod.

Oh yeah Dwarven cannon, as well as the normal cannon *Bleh*. Maybe a little touch ups, its not that bad though at all. Not nearly as bad as Arquebus.




To the FF dev team. Any plans to add more Civilizations that are NOT humans? I just realized how few non human races their actually are. Okay its not THAT few, but still. More undead civs would be totally welcomed. (scions are AMAZING) I totally want to see a hell bent civ that is lead by demons vampires and the undead. A mix of the evils. That would be awesome. Anyways I notice all I do is ask ask ask for more, but fail to say how amazing it is what you guys have done. So awesome job on making FFH2 better than it already is.



EDIT: With "Ice" announced, any plans on integrating the new features EXCLUDING SCENARIOS. If I want to play a scenario I will load vanilla FFH, but if I don't I will play FF. So will you guys add the base game changes only, and when? For example the amazing change to drill and removal of many top tier buildings.



EDIT EDIT: Forgot to say, last patch (patch D) you got a VERY ANNOYING aura when building the nox noctis or dies dee. Dies has this blinding sun border, and Nox makes everything look so drably dark. It's so annoying I have not played any civs with synergies to those religions nor played the religions since. So I got to ask did you take away that effect with this patch, if not, will you?

EDIT: With "Ice" announced, any plans on integrating the new features EXCLUDING SCENARIOS. If I want to play a scenario I will load vanilla FFH, but if I don't I will play FF. So will you guys add the base game changes only, and when? For example the amazing change to drill and removal of many top tier buildings.


The latest final Ice changes will almost all be included, yes. Couple to look at where they fit with changes we already have, but most will be in.


EDIT EDIT: Forgot to say, last patch (patch D) you got a VERY ANNOYING aura when building the nox noctis or dies dee. Dies has this blinding sun border, and Nox makes everything look so drably dark. It's so annoying I have not played any civs with synergies to those religions nor played the religions since. So I got to ask did you take away that effect with this patch, if not, will you?

Aye - that's gone (it was removed a while back, but snuck back into D).

Patch E didn't include a few files (or had slightly old versions). Shouldn't have been anything major, but when I compared the install to the current dev version, there were a few files that hadn't been included properly.

Patch F (http://grahamcox.co.uk/ffh/fallfurther/FF043-PatchF.exe)
1. Includes a few files that were missing or outdated in PatchE (we're moving to an SVN based system and I had a few teething issues).

i was playing with arcos and i could n´t build a adept. i have patch e.

(moved from the FF 042 thread)

Just wanted to say -- the addition of the automated caps to avoid angry cities was a great idea! Thanks! That feature by itself makes FF leagues better than any other mod!

On the other hand one thing I noticed is the propensity for AI civs to adopt all too eagerly the same religion as the leading civ, even when it doesn't make much sense, or when others have been founded and are obviously available. Evil civs adopting good religions (and vice-versa) should only happen as the result of coercion, such as the consequence of vassalage/conquest. I play standard Erebus maps typically with 8 AI civs, and almost invariably 6 or 7 of them spontaneously adopt the leading civ's religion. It's unfortunate as it takes away part of the flavor of the game. Anything can be done about that?

(moved from the FF 042 thread)

Just wanted to say -- the addition of the automated caps to avoid angry cities was a great idea! Thanks! That feature by itself makes FF leagues better than any other mod!

On the other hand one thing I noticed is the propensity for AI civs to adopt all too eagerly the same religion as the leading civ, even when it doesn't make much sense, or when others have been founded and are obviously available. Evil civs adopting good religions (and vice-versa) should only happen as the result of coercion, such as the consequence of vassalage/conquest. I play standard Erebus maps typically with 8 AI civs, and almost invariably 6 or 7 of them spontaneously adopt the leading civ's religion. It's unfortunate as it takes away part of the flavor of the game. Anything can be done about that?

I've been getting a lot of FoL Sheaim in my games recently :\.

I think it's whoever gets whatever religion first, provided that's the leading Civ at the time, and everybody else adopts the leader's religion.

I've duplicated that with Veil, Runes, Leaves, etc. It's not one religion in particular.

Patch F fixed my problem. I can now play Fall from Further without issue.

Yay!

I think it's whoever gets whatever religion first, provided that's the leading Civ at the time, and everybody else adopts the leader's religion.

I think this is directly related to the dwarves beelining ROK and the elves beelining FOL. Those two religions are almost always founded very early in games (sometimes unbelievably too early!) and that sets the pattern for the whole game. It spreads to AI civs (elves often spam Disciples that ALWAYS seems to spread their religion on first try!) and, before you know it, you are the only one with OO, the Order, Empyrean, etc.

Not quite the point I was making. I often end up being the bigger civ early on, and the nearby AI civs quickly adopt my religion as a result, including Good-aligned civs picking up an Evil religion, or an Evil ones picking up a good religion. What I specifically object to is a civ picking up a religion totally opposed to its normal alignment without any coercion.

Not quite the point I was making. I often end up being the bigger civ early on, and the nearby AI civs quickly adopt my religion as a result, including Good-aligned civs picking up an Evil religion, or an Evil ones picking up a good religion. What I specifically object to is a civ picking up a religion totally opposed to its normal alignment without any coercion.



OK, I see your point, but doesn't it make sense that the AI will adopt the first religion that spreads to one of its cities? And, if you are the big dog, maybe with the religion's holy building, it will spread to them in short order.

I do see what you are saying about inconsistencies with religions and alignments, but must admit I do it too sometimes. For example, in one game I had to abandon because of CTDs I was playing as the Sheaim and the only religion that had not been founded was the Order. I researched and adopted the Order to get the benefits that come with founding a religion. A Good Sheaim civ didn't make sense though.

OK, I see your point, but doesn't it make sense that the AI will adopt the first religion that spreads to one of its cities? And, if you are the big dog, maybe with the religion's holy building, it will spread to them in short order.

Spreading a religion to a city whose people are philosophically compatible with the new faith, especially if no other religion is already there, makes a lot of sense in fact. Odds of this happening, however, ought to drop substantially if both conditions aren't true. In general, closed borders should also reduce odds any religion spontaneously spreading to another city.

If the host city has a diametrically opposed alignment than the one associated with the new religion, and/or it has at least one other religion already practiced there, a "hated" religion ought to require a missionary and open borders of course (no spontaneous spread should be possible in that case).

Furthermore, an AI Civ should never adopt a "hated" faith as its official religion unless forced through a peace process or as the eventual consequence of conquest.

snarko's options mod has an option that allows the player to raise/lower the chance that a religion will expand to a city owned by a "culturally incompatible" civ. so, for example, you can choose to make it very unlikely that the order spreads to sheaim cities. it's an interesting mechanic that the team could use imho ;)

I agree. I'm also concerned that the addition of such will further contribute to the mod's increasingly slow speed on average computers. ::sigh::

I personally think that religions should stick to alignment. Even so far the techs for religions locked based on alignment. You can't have your religion be completely opposed.

Neutral has no problems with this.

That'd be my vote. Good Religion can't spread to evil cities, and the other way around.

OR... It can spread VERY unlikely, and if it does it causes some crazy negative happiness. Like -5 or something.

Why? If anything, it should cause an increase in maintnece costs, since radical cults are never a good thing;). I don't see why just because, say Alexis is evil means her people wouldn't want to pray to Lugus for a better life.

I personally think that religions should stick to alignment. Even so far the techs for religions locked based on alignment. You can't have your religion be completely opposed.

Neutral has no problems with this.

That'd be my vote. Good Religion can't spread to evil cities, and the other way around.

OR... It can spread VERY unlikely, and if it does it causes some crazy negative happiness. Like -5 or something.

For the AI that might make sense. For the player it would defeat one of the whole points of Fall from Heaven. It's entirely possible for the Bannor to become corrupt and fall to worship of the Veil, just as the Calabim can redeem themselves and follow the Order.

Saying "civs are not allowed to change their alignment" defeats half the point of the alignment system.

For the AI that might make sense. For the player it would defeat one of the whole points of Fall from Heaven. It's entirely possible for the Bannor to become corrupt and fall to worship of the Veil, just as the Calabim can redeem themselves and follow the Order.

Saying "civs are not allowed to change their alignment" defeats half the point of the alignment system.

And defeats the dynamic nature of the game. Personally I love converting the elohim to the ashen veil as sheaim. It is OUR game not some kind of set script where the baddies are always bad and the goodies always good.

Besides, if this bugs you change it yourself. There are religion weight modifiers for all the leaders in the leaderheadinfos.xml

That said, I do agree that the AI adopts religions too easily. It should take more than dropping one order missionary in one city to get the Sheaim to adopt Order, but if they have no other religion, that's what happens...

:eek: I kept hearing about this mod, finially got around to reading up on it. Probably wait for the update to 0.40, then download and enjoy this. :goodjob:

The religon thing, one fix, though it's not one prefer to use. Jump into world builder, and give the races a acolyte of the appropaite religion. I did that for a game, and they all popped em, and viola, religion bug fixed..ish. :lol:

Hated to do it, but the inappropaite religion thing really gets on my nerves.

And defeats the dynamic nature of the game.

I generally modify the weights to encourage "proper" civ-religion matches. But, yeah, it's easy for me to imagine getting tired of that sometime and wanting more variability.

So I want what I always want when there's something to be said for both sides: I want xienwolf to make a game-option.

Maybe something like "Multiply religion weights by 4." Or 3 or whatever'd work with the current figures to keep variability with the option off but remove most - but not all - of it when the option's on.

I'm leaning toward weighting the Civilizations to be less likely to open their borders to anyone who doesn't share alignment. Combine that with Kael's block to research alignment-altering religious technologies and it should serve nicely to keep religions from being LIKELY to spread around and break alignments, but won't make it impossible.

I like Tarquelne's idea of an option to change weighting of religious preferences for the AI (players should definitely have the option of adopting any old religion they like but I hate seeing things like the Bannor adopting AV and the Malakim taking CoE with great frequency - and FoL is virtually useless for non-elves). And what block does Kael have on researching alignment-altering religious techs? I went over the current FfH 0.40 changelog and didn't see anything. Is it just for the AI (another weighting thing) or a hard and fast rule affecting players too?

As for borders: I might suggest that border arrangements should be based not on alignment but rather on disposition (which comes with a built-in alignment modifier). I think there is some weighting already in play but perhaps not enough; I frequently am able to establish open borders with civs I meet who are annoyed with me from the start (and sometimes can't get it with good dispositions) and I almost never see civs closing borders even when they are furious. Such events would be realistic and flavorful.

Another possible set of modifiers would be certain civics: for example a civ running civics such as mercantilism or theocracy might be less likely to sign open border agreements and more likely to cancel pre-existing ones while civics such as liberty and foreign trade would be the reverse.

One more obvious choice for borders would be existing state religions; Order and AV civs should probably pretty much cancel any open borders agreements immediately upon adopting that religion. You might also consider greater disposition penalties or instituting a new penalty category for opposed religions (and maybe bonuses for similarly-aligned religions); as it stands (for example) Order civs hate evil FoL civs and evil AV civs the same (and have the same negative religious adjustment toward Emp civs).

Just my two cents. Take it for what it's worth.:rolleyes:

I'm leaning toward weighting the Civilizations to be less likely to open their borders to anyone who doesn't share alignment.

I'd rather see an increase in the alignment-based negative diplomatic modifiers overall than have my pal not open borders.

Hmm... and I guess I don't see the mere presence of disciples of an opposed alignment religion as a significant problem. It's the seeming eagerness of the AI to switch, and that's controlled well by the AI religion modifiers. They're just generally set pretty low ATM.

OTOH: Could you do an alignment-based modifier on a disciples chance of success at spreading a religion?

Or how about a "buffer" in the AI's decision making. Something to give alignment inertia. No buffer for a Good changing to Good, say, but when looking at the number of cities a Neutral civ will assume some phantom cities with a neutral alignment.

So, will the current version of FF work with FFH 2 0.40 or do we have to wait for a new version of FF to be released, too?

You can keep playing the old version without any issue, even if you already deleted your copy of FfH 2.034. New features from 040 will not be a part of FF until we release an updated version though.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Answered my question, though.

We played a multiplayergame with patch F and got OOS every time someone would actively attack other units.

We started multiple games - the problem persisted.

A suggestion: It seems to me that the Svartalfar aren't different enough from the Ljosalfar...just the "evil" version with few other real changes. Playing on Faeryl's status as the "Winter Queen" and the attendant lore I might suggest that Svartalfar units be given the Winterborn promotion to reflect their affinity for wintery conditions. And if Winterborn doesn't automatically grant a work speed bonus on tundra and ice/snow is there a way to make it do so? I already suggested to Jean Elcard in the FlavourMod thread that it might be a good idea to give the Svartalfar an affinity for forest/tundra terrain and the Ljosalfar an aversion to tundra terrain to solve an issue brought up by another player in which the Ljosalfar seemed to often end up in tundra due to their forest affinity and the fact that many tundra squares are forested. :cool:

We played a multiplayergame with patch F and got OOS every time someone would actively attack other units.

We started multiple games - the problem persisted.

Thanks - Xienwolf was looking into this one already and (I think) found a fix for it. Was related to the code that prevented you accidentally attacking units in unexplored squares (no more scouts attacking invisible elephants).

A suggestion: It seems to me that the Svartalfar aren't different enough from the Ljosalfar...just the "evil" version with few other real changes. Playing on Faeryl's status as the "Winter Queen" and the attendant lore I might suggest that Svartalfar units be given the Winterborn promotion to reflect their affinity for wintery conditions. And if Winterborn doesn't automatically grant a work speed bonus on tundra and ice/snow is there a way to make it do so? I already suggested to Jean Elcard in the FlavourMod thread that it might be a good idea to give the Svartalfar an affinity for forest/tundra terrain and the Ljosalfar an aversion to tundra terrain to solve an issue brought up by another player in which the Ljosalfar seemed to often end up in tundra due to their forest affinity and the fact that many tundra squares are forested. :cool:

I'm not sure there's a need for that much more differentiation (the two civs really do play very differently already) but the Winterborn for the Winter court is an interesting point. The main sticking point there would be that Elves are naturally weak vs cold (-25% resistance) so the Winterborn would only make it less of a penalty rather than a bonus, though the Tundra/Ice benefits would remain...

I'm not sure there's a need for that much more differentiation (the two civs really do play very differently already) but the Winterborn for the Winter court is an interesting point. The main sticking point there would be that Elves are naturally weak vs cold (-25% resistance) so the Winterborn would only make it less of a penalty rather than a bonus, though the Tundra/Ice benefits would remain...

Maybe add a "Winter Court" civ trait or something that gives Winterborn plus a small bonus vs. cold to negate the cold penalty (no bonus either)?

I don't think the Winter Court should be made to have bonuses in the cold weather terrains. They didn't rule colder areas, they ruled the same lands in the winter. They were upset by this because it meant that they only ruled when the weather was not conducive to getting anything done. Faeryl would clearly have preferred to rule in the Summer.

I guess I could be open to making the Dark Elf promotion loose the cold penalty though.

I don't think the Winter Court should be made to have bonuses in the cold weather terrains. They didn't rule colder areas, they ruled the same lands in the winter. They were upset by this because it meant that they only ruled when the weather was not conducive to getting anything done. Faeryl would clearly have preferred to rule in the Summer.

True...back then. However, after hundreds of years of cultural and perhaps genetic divergence, the Svartalfar may have learned to get things done in wintery conditions after all. I assume it wasn't JUST a government thing in the first place, some sort of power-sharing arrangement...there had to have been some differences between those elves who followed Arendel's Summer Court and those who aligned themselves with Faeryl's Winter Court. Otherwise why bother? One government ruling all the time would have been much more efficient... :D

You can keep playing the old version without any issue, even if you already deleted your copy of FfH 2.034. New features from 040 will not be a part of FF until we release an updated version though.

I think it would be better to wait so that FFH 0.40 is stabilised before using any new features from it. In the meantime, perhaps it would be possible to release a patch that addresses the already fixed bugs?
I mean, it is implied by your replies in some threads that you have already fixed some bugs in your dll, however, these fixes are not available for download... please? :please:

We are getting VERY close to having our new version ready. It isn't so much about updating to include features from 040 (as the scenarios require that you use FfH 2 for them to run anyway), as it is about including features we are working on for FF and making sure that crashes aren't so common as to make it unplayable.

Are you getting closer to improving game/processing speed?

Are you getting closer to improving game/processing speed?

Could be better. From my side the loading speed improvements for End of Winter and Flavour Start are in. I'll take a look at the Hell Terrain spread delays on the coming weekend. That is, if I pass my test in Computational Neuroscience tomorrow ...

Best of luck then!

good luck man, that sounds hard but interesting :D

May be somenone has already ask this question :blush:

but where can i find Fall from Heaven 2 034h ??

Thanks, I love this modmod.

:goodjob:

hey Vehem, Xien or whoever. Any date set for the next release? havent been lurking much lately so i apologise if you've posted it already

No, not posted on this thread. We are all anxiously waiting... But of course I am sure that there is a lot of CtD hunting at this moment.

When will you release the next update compatible with FfH 040?

Dear all, i need some help finding Fall from heaven 2 034.
I have downloaded fall from heaven 2 and the lastest mod install them and they run fine. I tried to play fall further and down load the main fall further mod and the patch. however the main mod would not install because "C:\programfiles.....\ source file fall from heaven 2 034 doesn't exist" im not sure where i go wrong please help. i tried to find mod 034 for fall from heaven 2 but can't seem to find it anywhere.

much appreciate for any help. Cheer

FF isn't updated for the newest version of FfH yet, and I haven't been able to find a copy of 034 anywhere, so you'll probably have to wait for the next release. Hopefully that won't be long. :D

I may have an installation of FFH 2 v 0.34, but I am not sure if I have kept the patches... I do have it installed, but I don't think this would do you any good...

ah i see. fall from heaven and fall further change civ4 completely. i swear it make civ 4 even better by 100%, so many diffrent concept to try out. Ans so much eager waiting the next patch hehe :D

thank for reply guys

I've got a copy and the latest patch. Can someone suggest where to upload and I'm happy to do so.

-Z

EDIT: Torrented at Mininova: Never needed to create a torrent before,so I hope it works OK :)
http://www.mininova.org/tor/2190166

If the problem is not yet solved, I also have .34 & patch F. If your e-mail box can handle the size, just PM me your e-mail to send it to you.

EDIT: Until FF adjusts to FFH 2.40, perhaps it would be nice if FFH 2.34+patch F was provided at the first page of this thread, along with FF. What do you think, FF creators?

The work you have done is amazing people! The mod is so much better than the last time I played. Well done! :thumbsup:

Ehm, is there somewhere a documentation of the features you have added and/or tweaked?

And, is age an informational field, or does it do something more than that?

And, sorry for posting this here, but I couldn't decide which is the best thread to give credits to your amazing work. My first thought was the "Credits" thread, but there is only the original message there, so I decided to skip it ...

Hello, pardon my ignorance, but I'm guessing this won't work with version .40 of FFHII, right? Is there a way to get the older version then, so I can play this awesome modmod?

0.40 version is hopefully going to be up this weekend.

If you cannot wait that long, here is a link for 0.34 of FfH (http://grahamcox.co.uk/ffh/xienwolf/FallfromHeaven2034.exe), but I don't have patch F anymore (should mostly work without the patch though)

0.40 version is hopefully going to be up this weekend.

You have adapted to all changes of 0.40? *cough* I mean, new enraged, removal of buildings, removal of war chariots etc?

Ah, thank you. I hopefully can wait though. :)

You have adapted to all changes of 0.40? *cough* I mean, new enraged, removal of buildings, removal of war chariots etc?

Not all - War Chariots stayed for the moment. The other two were altered in a slightly different way...

Not all - War Chariots stayed for the moment. The other two were altered in a slightly different way...

:) Can't wait to see :)

044 Changelog posted to top of thread

wow! lots and lots and lots of exciting new stuff to play with :D

can the AI use Master Equipment mechanics?

Exciting change log. Woohoo

Barbs can spawn inside your borders now? Or just friendly tiles outside of your borders?

I presume that it means tiles friendly to the Barbarians - ie, inside cultural borders of those who fit the criteria for peace with that particular faction.

By this weekend I really, really, really hope you mean Friday night or Saturday morning. These changes sound like they need some serious playing around with.

Man, I can't wait for this to come out. Looks like a lot of fun changes in there. :D

I must say the change log reflects an amount of new content which was far, FAR more than I was expecting for there to be. Kudos gentlemen, kudos.

I must say the change log reflects an amount of new content which was far, FAR more than I was expecting for there to be.

Me too. :)

Aye, we've been playing with these change for so long now (well, I've been AutoPlaying with them...) that it was hard to remember what was new and what was old. :)

Current Version Changelog

Version 044 (Unreleased)
1. Barbarians split into 3 separate factions - Demons, Savages and Animals (. . .)

Wow. . . that's a lot of stuff! :eek:

Exciting change log. Woohoo

Barbs can spawn inside your borders now? Or just friendly tiles outside of your borders?

I presume that it means tiles friendly to the Barbarians - ie, inside cultural borders of those who fit the criteria for peace with that particular faction.

What Geejo said. Savages and animals can spawn in tiles owned by (inside culture) civs at peace with them. Demons aren't so fussy - they'll quite happily pop up anywhere that you allow hell terrain to spread...

By this weekend I really, really, really hope you mean Friday night or Saturday morning. These changes sound like they need some serious playing around with.

Might be the other end - Friday night/Saturday morning is when we play around with the final version to check things out...

Simply put, Amazing.

It is obvious you keep a close track of the FFH forum debates. The solution for enraged looks great! The Barbarian system and Dociello world spell is, IMO, Brilliand! The Agnostic civs improvements, buildings, equipment, the new promotions, and(for those that get bored easily) the new victory conditions, and all others...It is weird, that I couldn't think "this was not needed" or "OMG this is a serious nerf" for any line of the changelong!

I am rendered speechless..Thankfully, this does not prevent me from writting :lol:

Good job!:goodjob:

80. Added "Ambush" promotion - extra defensive strength within borders (Esus Only)
81. Added "Camisade" promotion - allows a weak ranged strike (Esus Only)
82. Added "Misdirection" promotion - maximises your withdrawal chance for one combat (Esus Only)
83. Added "Racketeering" promotions - first increases loot from pillage and reduces revolt chance, second removes unit maintenance (Esus Only)
84. Added "Deceitful" promotion - prereq for some of the above (Esus Only)
85. Added "Freelancer" promotion - allows highly promoted units to ignore the National Unit cap, but may go off to fight unexpectedly on their own (Esus Only)
86. All Esus Only promotions are lost if you abandon CoE state religion

ooh - Esus looks nice and sneaky.....don't s'pose it'd be possible to add a "field surgeon" promotion too? Would be an Esus equivalent of a combined heal/cure disease spell - but perhaps costs 1 gold per unit in the stack, and finishes the casting units move. Perhaps perfectly healthy units in the stack are charged too - for simplicity sake....justified in that the surgeon is charging them for a haircut as a reference to Barbers being the field surgeons/dentists of old. (Perhaps the promotion could even be represented by a red-white striped button?!)

Forgive the stupid question, but I've been away from the game for quite a while. Are Machinist shops in for the Khazad too? If not, why only for the Luchuirpsomething?

Hello, I don't post in this thread very often, but I noticed that barbarians are being split into three teams. I was wondering if there would be some kind of frostling faction for Auric Ulvin? Samhain is pretty useless right now...

Here's 043 patch F if someone wants a direct download.

It's not the installer - it's the files from inside the installer. You'll need to put them in place manually - copy the two folders to your 043 install and let them overwrite.

Hello, I don't post in this thread very often, but I noticed that barbarians are being split into three teams. I was wondering if there would be some kind of frostling faction for Auric Ulvin? Samhain is pretty useless right now...

Have you played the Illians in FF? It is not quite the same as FFH2. Someone please correct me if I am mistaken.

There are only the 3 factions right now, Frostlings count as Savages IIRC. But the number of barbarian factions can fairly easily be increased now that the bugs are worked out and we understand what the EXE has hardcoded a bit better.

With the new barbarians civs, has the maximum number of possible players been increased or would we need to reduce the number of players in the game? I'd like it if it was possible to have every leader, including minor leaders, in the game at one time.


Could you make it so that (at least when there are multiple version of the same civ or leader in the game) it will always list both the leader and civ name when you mouseover territory or discuss someone in diplomacy? It gets annoying when you declare war on the wrong leader.


Would it be possible to let us change a unit's religion in world builder?

Have you figured out yet why peaks will never yield anything, even when you change the <iPeakChange> in CIV4YieldInfos.xml, and changed it?

Excelent change with the barb factions. A question, though. Are the animals and savages at peace with with each other, or will the orcs kill off all the animals?

With all the changes, I don't know what to play first. A barb trait civ, the Luch to try and get the new Great Buildings, an CoE game? Too many choices.