Feature List


7 New Civilizations

Dural Civilization
Artists and students, the Dural are coming to realise that study alone will not sustain them in the wartorn Age of Rebirth. Led by the visionary Dannmos, the Dural seek to return civilization to the world, or at least their corner of it - though the task seems daunting indeed

With access to a number of unique national wonders (the Statues of the Seven Virtues) and the potent Professor unit (a priest replacement who can cast Hope and Inspiration), the Dural can do well on any path within the game. They are somewhat limited in religion (they can adopt religion and build disciples, but Temples and Priests are unavailable to them) as they are more concerned with the achievements of man than the worship of the gods, and are not naturally inclined to war but are quite capable of combat when the need arises. Their Hero - Karrlson - is a champion-level unit who was once a student until he saw first hand the dangers the world faced, at which point he began to study warfare instead. A good, solid choice for any player who enjoys a "builder" playstyle, with plenty of potential.

The Chislev Tribe
Tribal warriors out for revenge, the Chislev were almost wiped out when Jonas marched through their lands on the way to wage war on the Bannor. Previously a peaceful people, the Chislev were forced to fight for survival with their leader Absaroke at the fore. With the immediate danger now passed, the tribe must rebuild what they have lost if they are ever to avenge the fallen.

The Tribe has a number of unique buildings, some of which replace existing early structures (Elder Council and Pagan Shrine) and other, more potent buildings which can only be constructed once a number of others have been built within the empire. The most important of this higher-level buildings is the Council of the Warchief - which provides the effect of a Forbidden palace as well as boosting military production and global city-defence. One of these can in theory be built for every 3 cities, leading to the possibility of many small groups of settlements, each close to a "centre of government" to reduce maintenance. Additionally, the Chislev only civic - "Tribal Law" - acts in a similar manner to City States, but reduces Number of Cities maintenance instead of distance. Finally, when their world spell is cast, the Chislev receive free units in every city containing a Council of the Warchief, as the troops are rallied to seek their revenge. On the downside, the tribe has recently abandoned their homes, and suffers somewhat in the early game - lacking the means to make rapid tech-progress. Once they get established however, their enemies should be wary. A good civ for those who like to build early and war late.

The Archos
The Archos spent the Age of Ice trapped in spider infested caves. Over time they developed mutations and even began to worship the spiders. Shortly before the Age of Rebirth dawned, a formal spider cult emerged worshipping a giant spider they commonly called "Mother". Whilst the cult remains secretive and below ground even now, they hold sway over their barbaric tribe who have returned to the surface, under the command of Daracaat. Daracaat is fierce warrior, none-too-subtle in his approach but wily enough to understand the position the spider cult has put him in. He wishes to build the power of the tribe and conquer those civilizations nearby and uses brute strength and giant spiders to do it.

The Archos are a "barbarian-friendly" civilzation, though they tend to allow their spiders to feed upon any orcs that stray too close. Whilst the civilization has a strong "spider-theme", they cannot build spiders themselves and mostly rely on the brute strength of their warriors, especially in the early game. The spiders are born in the "Nest-City" (Capital) which benefits greatly when it increases in size. At Size 5, Baby Spiders are born periodically, whilst at Size 10 this changes to Giant Spiders. At Size 20, the Giant Spiders become Strong. There is one other important size-level for the Nest - size 15. This is the minimum size required to cast their world-spell, which brings their Hero unit "Mother" into the world. She's a big spider. And fun. 'nuff said. Subtle game-play isn't high on the list of Archos traits - they like to war and have the means to do it. Their Melee line lacks access to some of the weapon upgrades (generally only available to higher level units than normal) but make up for that with poison strength. Their Recon line is especially potent, and leads to the tech required to wake Mother (Feral Bond) and eventually toward the tech required to train Haruspex - the spider priests. These druid replacements trade summoning abilities for the Chaos Sphere, making them a unique blend of druid and attack-caster. The Archos have good potential for early war, and it just gets better once Mother and friends turn up...

Enter the Lizardmen - Cualli and Mazatl Civilizations

The Cualli and Mazatl civilizations are two surviving factions of an ancient race that was all but destroyed in the Age of Ice. Whilst they share a common root, they have developed in dramatically different directions since the dawn of the Age of Rebirth.

The Cualli survived the Age of Ice by making pacts with their dark god. Now bound to his service, they are a selfish and bloodthirsty people. Utilizing slavery and blood sacrifices to build their empire and dark magics combined with natural aggression to conquer their neighbours. Their leader is ruthlessly cunning and cold blooded in his tactics and their high-level units are incredibly potent, combining the power and stealth of the Shadow unit with the spell casting abilities of the Priest line.

The Mazatl on the other hand are an enlightened civilization, burdened with the foresight of the impending Armageddon. Their priests have divined what will happen if none stand to prevent the Infernals and the Sheaim from completing their plans, so they now make preparations to make that stand.

Lust for Knowledge - Kahdi

A new civ with an identity crisis - the Kahdi are ambitious, power hungry and utterly convinced that they're actually "nice guys". Believing that they serve Oghma
in pursuit of knowledge, their path has been twisted by Mammon and they truly covet power instead. Granted a direct link to Oghma's vault through "Vault Gates",
will Kahd eventually discover the truth and if so - with which god will he side?

Where the wind blows - Austrin

The Austrin are born explorers and their units and abilities reflect their wandering ways. Whilst the short term benefits of exploration are obvious, units like the Tracker also allow you to keep your lands safe from barbarians more easily whilst your melee forces are more mobile than those of other civilizations. Eventually they are able to field units such as the Windsword and Pegasus riders.

Scions of Patria

The Scions of Patria claim they represent the rebirth of humankind's greatest empire and Erebus' best hope for salvation, for life. But the enigmatic Risen Emperor's people are themselves long dead. Are the Scions reindling the glory of a lost age, or harbingers of an unnatural doom? A study in contradictions, within the shining cities of Patria Reborn sophisticated pleasures war with the despair of eternal existance. The Scions' rich markets are full of precious things from the Age of Magic, but traders must seek them through the macabre Haunted Lands. In the Haunted Lands Ghostwalkers melt through and with the shadows, and grotesque mergings of the living and the dead can lead to madness or great wealth. Champions of art and philosophy, the citizens of Patria Reborn also worship their Risen Emperor with burning fanaticism.

Full citizens of Patria Reborn are all undead. Cities don't gain population by accumulating Food. Instead they entice Awakened citizens out of the Bottomless Tomb with desirable resources or attractive Civics. Additionally, the Scions may either persuade or forcibly convert members of other civilizations.

Patria Reborn is led either by their Risen Emperor or by Korrina, guardian of the Emperor's Mausoleum. Under Korrina the Scions may adopt other religions. The Risen Emperor is "Agnostic", but provides access to units and buildings of a state religion. When the Risen Emperor rules Korrina is the Scions' Hero, and visa versa.

The Scions also have access to the four Grand Councilors of the Dark Council: Pelemoc Goldtongue, Themoch the Silent Watcher, Melante the Artful Governor, and Alcinus the Mad Thaumaturge.

Most Scions units are undead and many have unusual abilities. The Melee line features Headless spearmen and heavy infantry formations. The Recon line contains skirmishers, transforming Reaching Creepers and Ghostwalkers, and the terrible Horned Dread. The Arcane line has Necromancers, Corpus spells, and Mana types chosen partially at random by the mad Alcinus.

The Haunted Lands are the Scions' special terrain Feature. Along with Commerce and combat benefits it inhibits the growth of other civilizations, spawns Reaching Creepers, shelters Haunts, and can place a variety of curses on invaders, including transformation into hostile undead.

There are several "Concept" Civlopedia entires and online documentation here.

================


New terrain and unique features

Welcome to the Jungle

With the Cualli and Mazatl civilizations comes a new terrain mechanic to help represent their disposition toward jungle climates. It introduces a new terrain type (Wetland), feature (Deep Jungle) and "Improvement" (Swampland). Each of these will develop naturally over time in Lizard-man lands, turning their empire into a lush jungle land. The lizardmen draw some benefits from these terrain types, but they also provide an obstacle to would-be conquerors.

Lore Locations

Seven Pines, Mount Kalshekk, Bradeline's Well and Sirona's Beacon join the list of unique features to be found in Erebus, each with it's own benefits. Some are based on locations found in Fall from Heaven Canon lore, others are based on the FF civilizations.

New flavour for existing civs

Subtle changes to the existing civilizations add new options and flavour to the races. For instance - Lanun ships can now summon a weak boarding party in order to capture enemy vessels at sea if they have the "Buccaneer Crew" promotion, the Sidar gain the "Divided Soul" hunter replacement (able to split itself into separate parts and teleport between locations) and the Elohim have been extensively reworked as a defensive, monastic civilization.


================


Features from other modders

Explorable Lairs (original by Marnok)

Marnok has produced an excellent mod-component that means that monster lairs (Barrows, Ruins etc) are no longer so easily defeated. A unit must stand upon
the lair and "Assault the Dungeon". This can be a risky business, with all manner of dangers awaiting the unit and no guarantee of success. However - it can also be
very rewarding - experience, gold, magic items, unique promotions and unimaginable fame all await intrepid adventurers in the darkness. They need only be bold
enough to enter...

When a unit stands upon a tile with a "Lair" improvement, it no longer vanishes. You must use the "Explore Dungeon" ability in order to attempt to destroy the lair.
When you do so, a great many results are possible - but the process occurs automatically and you are informed of what happens during the adventure. The results vary
from valuable to outright deadly. You can improve your chances however with the "Adventurer" promotion - which helps your unit to avoid the worst of what the dungeon
can throw at them.


Broader Alignment (original by Grey Fox)

Evil? You call yourself evil? I'm more evil than you could ever be and I can prove it... Grey Fox produced a very impressive interface allowing a much greater
variety of factors to influence your alignment.

Alignment is no longer purely tied to religion - each leader has an initial alignment score (ranging from very good to very evil) and this can be influenced by religion, civics, units created, buildings built,
event results, cities razed - pretty much anything you can think of. Most influencing factors are commented on in their 'pedia entries or the help text for the option
though some are not immediately obvious (event results and such). Whilst Grey Fox did a *lot* of work on this, I do plan to extend that further in later versions
and to tweak the existing factors to make things a little easier to follow. The coloured bar in the top left of the interface displays your current alignment status.


Worker Promotions (original by Xienwolf)

Feel like a faceless labourer? Tired of working all day with no recognition of your skill? Then you need "Worker Promotions", new from Xienwolf.

Workers gain experience over time, allowing them to acquire promotions. These promotions can influence work rate, experience gain rate, defensive strength,
movement rate and visibility range. Skilled V, Mobility I workers make an excellent workfore - it just takes a little effort and a lot of worker protection to
get there.

Also included in this mod-comp was a number of addiitonal XML tags on promotions - some of which are used to implement other features below.


Diverse Citysets

Rather than using Era/Religion-based city art, Fall Further now uses Civ-specific city art. The buildings in your city will reflect the nature of the civ
you're playing. Orcs live in dirty camps, whilst elves construct elegant homes. This is purely a cosmetic change, but hopefully a worthwhile one. Some of the
religion specific improvements have been altered as well such that they don't stand out against the new city art as much.

Artwork by:

Woodelf, Winddelay and Darque (Dragonia II mod)
GeoModder, asioasioasio, Chamaedrys, C.Roland, Ganart, Sevo, White Rabbit, Woodelf and "the FfH art team" (Ethnic Citystyles Mod)
Vehem (DIY-Balseraph Tents Mod - and a number of other tweaks)

Reserved for Later

Reserved for Later

Is there any place where the tweaks to the "old" FFH civs are listed?

In the changelogs.

Will the dll source be released ?

Will the dll source be released ?

Aye - it's been available for (almost) each version since the start - though the only link was on the original thread. I've now added it to the first post on the Download thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=292120).

I'm thinking it would be good to create a Modmodders Guide to Fall Further thread, detailing all of Xienwolf's changes and including not only the dll but all the files needed for FF functionality without actual content (schema files, screens, etc.)

I forgot about doing that, and I will do so right away. Then I can lay the old MODCOMP thread to rest completely. Though I'll only be linking the DLL sourcecode, not all the schemas and whatnot.

Thanks a lot ! This is great.
Well, I was trying to modifiy a bit the sdk to make the conqueror trait work with units, and I modified a few things in CvCity.cpp & CvPlayer.cpp and it seems I messed up with something... When I build the dll (merged code of FFH2033, FF042 and mine), I don't get any errors, and the game starts normaly, but the sevopedia won't show up and I have no in-game UI (no menus, no mini-map, only the units and terrains...).
(Can anyone tell me what I've been doing wrong ?)

Problem solved, my mistake, should have used the cbp of FFH2 from the beginning.

Thanks a lot ! This is great.
Well, I was trying to modifiy a bit the sdk to make the conqueror trait work with units, and I modified a few things in CvCity.cpp & CvPlayer.cpp and it seems I messed up with something... When I build the dll (merged code of FFH2033, FF042 and mine), I don't get any errors, and the game starts normaly, but the sevopedia won't show up and I have no in-game UI (no menus, no mini-map, only the units and terrains...).
Can anyone tell me what I've been doing wrong ?

Try unhiding Python Exceptions (there's an option in Civ4Config.ini) and you should get a message when the interface fails to complete. It may be that you changed something that is exposed to Python and so it fails when it reaches that point.

This sounds increddible - downloading now!

I havea question ... How is it with TwinCast ??
I have mage with Combat 5 and I can't promote him to twincast (no twincast promote button)... ):

Twincast is only available to units with the Hero promotion

Twincast is only available to units with the Hero promotion

What he said - it's just the same as in normal FfH. If it's not displaying in the 'pedia however we may be able to do something about that.

I kiss the feet of whoever thought of broader alignment. I've always deplored the idea that good or evil were tied to Judeo-Christian views of Heaven and Hell, and longed to just be called good because in the secular sense I give my people a good life.

Edit: Also, do you have a list of all the things that affect alignment?

Several people (perhaps most prominently myself, although I don't think I was the first) proposed having a large range of alignments for a ling time, but Grey Fox was the first to implement it.

Cool. So what about the list?

while we're talking about broader alignments, I love it but doesn't it make it too easy to drift to evil as opposed to drifting to good? seems like there are quite a lot of actions considered "evil" around, but only a few considered "good" ;)

BA is right now in official "Red-headed Stepchild" status in Fall Further. It is there, and it does something, but not what we want it to do, and we're too busy elsewhere to slap it into line at the moment.


Vehem and I have both often stated a desire to go in and overhaul how it is being run. Like adding in per-turn effects on some things (like civics) among other possibilities. Just another of many "lack of time" issues.

Ideally when we overhaul the system it will get an entry in the Civilopedia under Concepts section which will auto-link everything that improves your alignment and everything that lowers it.

As for a list right now... no clue ;)

Should update this with a description of the Scions. ;)

Should update this with a description of the Scions. ;)

And a link to the Scions documentation. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=300307

question: what does the force 1 spell (accelerate) actually do?

I can't find any reference to it and it is always greyed out.

question: what does the force 1 spell (accelerate) actually do?

I can't find any reference to it and it is always greyed out.

It is the equivalent of Haste for Siege units.

cool. I think the tip for it is broken, as it only says 'forced effects only last for 1 round'.

Is there anything that will increase the chances of terrain becoming Wetlands, for the swamp dwelling races? I am on turn 295 and only three plots have become wetlands. Of course, I started in the desert, with a few rivers, and had workers "spring" all the desert tiles. And did have a few tiles with forest.

Is there anything that will increase the chances of terrain becoming Wetlands, for the swamp dwelling races? I am on turn 295 and only three plots have become wetlands. Of course, I started in the desert, with a few rivers, and had workers "spring" all the desert tiles. And did have a few tiles with forest.

The quickest to change are Grassland tiles on riversides, so a desert start is pretty harsh. The "FlavourStart" option is probably quite important for the Lizardmen, as they do gain quite a lot from their swamplands (FlavourStart should start you near very suitable terrain for Wetland spread).

If you are stuck with deserts, spring and Genesis are pretty much your only recourse, other than hunting down some jungle and colonizing there too.

This was with the Erebus map script with flavor start. I have started two games with this script and FF, one as Sidar, and one as Lizards. Both started in dry areas, and near the Seven Pines -- which was on desert both times. I would think that would at least be restricted to a plot that was forested...

I guess I had bad luck. I don't think genesis works in patch D.

This was with the Erebus map script with flavor start. I have started two games with this script and FF, one as Sidar, and one as Lizards. Both started in dry areas, and near the Seven Pines -- which was on desert both times. I would think that would at least be restricted to a plot that was forested...

I guess I had bad luck. I don't think genesis works in patch D.

Actually, I have been noticing a serious bug with the Erebus mapscript. Extensive testing seems to show that the flavor start built into the mapscript conflicts quite heavily with Flavor 2.0. I don't think I have EVER seen the Mazatl start in jungle in recent history when using Erebus with Flavor Start enabled.

Could the flavor start built into Erebus PLEASE be stripped out? It's outdated legacy code that really does seem to be causing problems.

(Ask RogueThunder for more info about the extensive testing; he spent an entire afternoon playing with it)

Actually, I have been noticing a serious bug with the Erebus mapscript. Extensive testing seems to show that the flavor start built into the mapscript conflicts quite heavily with Flavor 2.0. I don't think I have EVER seen the Mazatl start in jungle in recent history when using Erebus with Flavor Start enabled.

Could the flavor start built into Erebus PLEASE be stripped out? It's outdated legacy code that really does seem to be causing problems.

(Ask RogueThunder for more info about the extensive testing; he spent an entire afternoon playing with it)

I'll check it out. There are more than one possibility to solve this.


Switch off Flavour Start 2 for Erebus.
Remove Cephalo's Erebus Flavour Start Code.
Remove Cephalo's starting location code completly, let Civ4 assign the starting plots and reassign them with Flavour Start 2.


I tend to go with number three, but this will very likely lead to more than one civilization starting in one and the same Area. On the other hand it would solve the Python error as a side effect, which occurs, if you want to play Erebus with more civs than Areas are available. I don't know if the first problem is really a problem or rather an advantage. What do you think?

I'll check it out. There are more than one possibility to solve this.

Switch off Flavour Start 2 for Erebus.
Remove Cephalo's Erebus Flavour Start Code.
Remove Cephalo's starting location code completly, let Civ4 assign the starting plots and reassign them with Flavour Start 2.
I tend to go with number three, but this will very likely lead to more than one civilization starting in one and the same Area. On the other hand it would solve the Python error as a side effect, which occurs, if you want to play Erebus with more civs than Areas are available. I don't know if the first problem is really a problem or rather an advantage. What do you think?

The problem with #1 is that non of the FF civs are defined in the mapscript's native flavorstart. And the problem with #3 is that will likely not let the Mazatl get jungle starts, since base Civ will never assign a jungle as a start location to my knowledge. #2 is definitely my preffered fix.

The problem with #1 is that non of the FF civs are defined in the mapscript's native flavorstart.

It's not impossible to add them to the list. Could be useful as a preselection.

And the problem with #3 is that will likely not let the Mazatl get jungle starts, since base Civ will never assign a jungle as a start location to my knowledge.

Don't worry, it does. I saw it happen myself on different kind of maps. And btw: It's not aboslutely necessary for the Maztl to start in the jungle. A nice forested riverside location is almost as good for them as a jungle start.

#2 is definitely my preffered fix.

I'll run some tests and see what 's working best.

The problem with #1 is also that I like Flavor 2.0 much, much better than the flavormod built into Erebus, because of what it does with forts, ancient towers, etc., which to my knowledge the default flavor in Erebus does not do. :)

Oi. I'd be the one who hit erebus+flavorstart 2 alot to test it...

While yes, it occasionaly gives a jungle start to mazatl. Its happening just as often as someone would normally get shafted with a jungle start accidentaly. AKA, accidental in the first place....

Ive done solution #1 several times btw :P I call it ErebusFF XD...

That said, flavor 2.0 REALLY is superior...

Hi there, I couldn't decide what to do, so I decided to go the easy way and let the player decide. :p

I've added a new ingame Map Option to the Erebus map script, which allows you to choose, if you want Civilization IV to do the assignment of starting plots (as on any other map script) or if you want it the Erebus way with only one civilization per valley and Erebus Flavour.

If you also choose Flavour Start from the game options, Flavor Start will redistribute the base starting plots generated by one of two methods mentioned above according to the FlavourMod flavour descriptions.

@RogueThunder: Would you mind posting your ErebusFF map scrip? I would like to take a look.

After looking through the FAQ and opening the Scion Documention thread, I still don't really understand what they are. Are they an obstacle or tool? Could you add a short description of how Scions work to the feature list?

There already is a not very short introduction in the civopedia feature list.

After looking through the FAQ and opening the Scion Documention thread, I still don't really understand what they are. Are they an obstacle or tool?

/slightly puzzled/ Did you catch that they're a civ, "Scions of Patria"?
(Though I think of them as a time sink. ;))

So they're as much an obstacle or tool as, say, the Balseraphs, but without the dubious fashion sense.

/slightly puzzled/ Did you catch that they're a civ, "Scions of Patria"?
(Though I think of them as a time sink. ;))

So they're as much an obstacle or tool as, say, the Balseraphs, but without the dubious fashion sense.

No, I didn't catch that; thanks for the info. I normally just use a random civ, and I hadn't met them yet in the small map games I've played. In my defense, they're not listed with the other new Civs in the first post of this thread (the Feature list and FAQ). The post even mentions that there are seven new civs but only lists six.

No, I didn't catch that; thanks for the info. I normally just use a random civ, and I hadn't met them yet in the small map games I've played. In my defense, they're not listed with the other new Civs in the first post of this thread (the Feature list and FAQ). The post even mentions that there are seven new civs but only lists six.

There are actually 8 now - need to add the Scions to the first post though as you mentioned. The first post is actually just a combination of several other release posts from the original thread that were cobbled together when we got our own forum.

Archos - Spider worshiping barbarians
Chislev - Vengeful tribe
Dural - Artists and scholars
Mazatl - Good Lizards, opposed to Armageddon
Cualli - Evil Lizards, slavery and and power hungry assassins
Kahdi - Ambitious but misguided
Austrin - Explorers and wanderers
Scions - Undead Empire with nostalgia for "the good old days" of Patria

Tarq - do you want to do similar "intro piece" to those for the Archos/Chislev etc, and I'll copy/post it at the top?

Long, but I figured it might help either head off questions or help guide people to the documentation.


*****

The Scions of Patria claim they represent the rebirth of humankind's greatest empire and Erebus' best hope for salvation, for life. But the enigmatic Risen Emperor's people are themselves long dead. Are the Scions reindling the glory of a lost age, or harbingers of an unnatural doom? A study in contradictions, within the shining cities of Patria Reborn sophisticated pleasures war with the despair of eternal existance. The Scions' rich markets are full of precious things from the Age of Magic, but traders must seek them through the macabre Haunted Lands. In the Haunted Lands Ghostwalkers melt through and with the shadows, and grotesque mergings of the living and the dead can lead to madness or great wealth. Champions of art and philosophy, the citizens of Patria Reborn also worship their Risen Emperor with burning fanaticism.

Full citizens of Patria Reborn are all undead. Cities don't gain population by accumulating Food. Instead they entice Awakened citizens out of the Bottomless Tomb with desirable resources or attractive Civics. Additionally, the Scions may either persuade or forcibly convert members of other civilizations.

Patria Reborn is led either by their Risen Emperor or by Korrina, guardian of the Emperor's Mausoleum. Under Korrina the Scions may adopt other religions. The Risen Emperor is "Agnostic", but provides access to units and buildings of a state religion. When the Risen Emperor rules Korrina is the Scions' Hero, and visa versa.

The Scions also have access to the four Grand Councilors of the Dark Council: Pelemoc Goldtongue, Themoch the Silent Watcher, Melante the Artful Governor, and Alcinus the Mad Thaumaturge.

Most Scions units are undead and many have unusual abilities. The Melee line features Headless spearmen and heavy infantry formations. The Recon line contains skirmishers, transforming Reaching Creepers and Ghostwalkers, and the terrible Horned Dread. The Arcane line has Necromancers, Corpus spells, and Mana types chosen partially at random by the mad Alcinus.

The Haunted Lands are the Scions' special terrain Feature. Along with Commerce and combat benefits it inhibits the growth of other civilizations, spawns Reaching Creepers, shelters Haunts, and can place a variety of curses on invaders, including transformation into hostile undead.

There are several "Concept" Civlopedia entires and online documentation here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=300307)

So might wanna add this to the FAQ, although I am the only one that apperently ever had this propleme:

To what location/path should the installer point?

Also, I would like to see a detailed documantation of FF (all new civs, their unique units, list of all their unique buildings, and their world spells). Crucify me if there is already something like this or if it is too hard, but I would like to see what I am up against before I try this mod. I think I will stop babbling now...

Also, I would like to see a detailed documantation of FF (all new civs, their unique units, list of all their unique buildings, and their world spells). Crucify me if there is already something like this or if it is too hard, but I would like to see what I am up against before I try this mod. I think I will stop babbling now...

That's something I'd like to get done soon as well. I suspect I may borrow the Manual templates from Xienwolf and start adding sometime during the 05x cycle...

I played this game once before, when the older version was out. I just played two games (wanted to check out various leaders aside from the Archos, which I really liked before) today, and I just wanted to say...this is outstanding.

I played as the Kahdi, and the feel of that civ, is perfect for me. Research based, magic based, something along the lines of the Planar Gates but for research (I don't know what comes out of them, as I had only just built the first one before I had to exit). I really like the flavor of this game, and it seems even better than when I got into my archos thing a while back (loved playing as them!).

I also really love what you've done with exploring lairs, villages, dungeons, barrows, etc. I had a couple of scouts die, and a scout get a hostile result. But, there was one scout I had that explored several villages, barrows, dungeons, and even an epic dungeon, and get nothing but positive results (aside from plagued which was quickly offset by the other results). Right before exploring an epic dungeon (the Pyre of Seraphic), I got an adventurer promotion, for better results, and ended up getting an adventurer out of the pyre. I don't think I've ever had a result like that from there.

So yeah, very fun game, lots of flavor, a lot of variety, and a lot of fun with some risk while exploring. Thanks for an awesome mod mod!

First, this is a great modmod and I am enjoying it.
I' ve got some question concerning the wetlands and Deep Jungles:

Do wetlands spread to plain tiles and/or worked tiles (cottage, farm, etc.)?

Is it intended that Deep Jungle is cut by building an improvement on a marsh terrain tile?

Is it possible to build cottages on wetlands? (I didn't even had the option to do this)

Should swamps remove forests and deep jungles by spawning?

what does "automatically pillages enemy" mean? It shows up for the ring of carcer and something else that i can't remember.

That would be the Raider trait that Brigit has because she is a demon.

Since when was Brigit a Demon?

Since when was Brigit a Demon?

Since they invented/altered the Lore that didn't suit them, obviously. :)

Brigit is a demon in this game?

I assume he means she is OWNED by demons while trapped in the Ring of Carcer. Doesn't make much sense to have her owned by orcish barbarians, after all.

Demon Civ is probably more appropriately named "Extraplanar Civ" they contain all demons/angels/elementals which belong to any Barbarian Civ. Thus they also contain Brigit.

what do you need to be able to use Pax Diabolis?

Gekko;7768912']what do you need to be able to use Pax Diabolis?

State Religion of Ashen Veil, currently at War with the Demons, 2000 Hammers, Double production speed with Entropy Mana, 1 per team.

Completing the Ritual preparations allows any unit in the city to cast the spell, destroying the city, converting a lot of the population into Manes (if Hyborem is around) and gaining peace with the Demon civ.

Abandoning AV will result in war with the demons again.

Sheaim under AV are automatically granted peace with the demons - they don't need to complete the ritual.

thanx for the reply. you might want to add this information to the civilopedia since it just says you get double speed with entropy mana, but doesn't list any prerequisite ;)

too bad I'm OO and not willing to switch to AV. I'm gonna have to summon Basium to help me deal with those damn demons... all those azers are driving me nuts :lol:

Hey, so sometimes when I get one of the "make a hard choice" events, such as the one where you have to pick who to convict for a woman's murder, you get the green notification that your people are pleased with your wisdom. Cool. But what does it do? I don't remember ever getting this in regular FfH, but perhaps I just make a lot of bad choices.

It is an event from base FfH. The "right choice" is based on your current civics. And I personally don't recall what the benefit is of making the right choice (or penalty of a wrong one) I would imagine it is temporary happiness though.

It is an event from base FfH. The "right choice" is based on your current civics. And I personally don't recall what the benefit is of making the right choice (or penalty of a wrong one) I would imagine it is temporary happiness though.

The "governor assassinated" one is based on your civics.

The murdered wife event - the correct answer is always the husband, regardless of your civics.

And yes, it is a temporary happiness boost for getting it right. The penalty for getting the answer wrong is a temporary anger increase.

I think the OP of this thread could do with some updating. Many neat things aren't mentioned, and some of the things that are mentioned, are now out of date.

I'm basing my thoughts here on the assumption that a feature list is intended to "sell" the mod. It will mostly be read by people who haven't tried it yet, and it's general purpose is to convince them to do so, by saying "look at all this cool stuff we have"

I'll try to sum up the things I noticed:

"Bugs"

Seven Pines and Bradeline's well are mentioned as new unique features. These are now in base FFH.

The Sidar divided soul unit is mentioned. FFH has this too.

explorable lairs, also in FFH. although I don't think the Adventurer promotion is.

Diverse citysets. I think FFH has this to some extent, although I notice balseraph buildings in FF are tents and such. Maybe it should say "more diverse citysets", and mention how it improves that part of FFH, rather than saying it's a completely new feature.


Omissions

The part about the lizardman races doesn't really explain much. For the mazatl, it should mention their 3 types of priests, and that their hero is a lesser dragon, of sorts.

The Khadi part ought to mention something about the ease with which they can get mages. And also about the vault creatures.

The austrin part is kind of short in general. maybe could do with some fleshing out. like say what windswords are.

nothing is mentioned about ranged attacks, which are an awesome thing and ought to be mentioned.

The great engineer buildings are not mentioned. They allow a lot of pretty nice equipment, and are a major feature.

The various buildings that give xp over time to certain unit types, make a significant change in military aspects of FF. These ought to be mentioned.



Just the things I can think of for now. There's probably more.

Okay, now that the Somnium button is replaced with the Guilds button, how do I play Somnium?

Okay, now that the Somnium button is replaced with the Guilds button, how do I play Somnium?

The button has been moved to the top left corner, near the sliders.

How do I get pegasus as Austrin?

How do I get pegasus as Austrin?

Their Archmagi can summon them - Harmatt on a Horsie is fun :)

Their Archmagi can summon them - Harmatt on a Horsie is fun :)

who in the what now?

also, I don't mean to be a bother, but if it's not too much trouble, could you possibly read my previous post in this thread. Say....5 or so posts ago. And possibly act upon the issues mentioned therein.

Can anyone tell me what the Transmutation spell does? There is nothing in the help and my priests of Kalshekk can't cast it.

I believe it converts copper into gold... Haven't used it in a while though, so I'm not sure.

who in the what now?

also, I don't mean to be a bother, but if it's not too much trouble, could you possibly read my previous post in this thread. Say....5 or so posts ago. And possibly act upon the issues mentioned therein.

Agreed that it's horribly outdated - but recent versions have moved very quickly (as has FfH with the features that were once FF specific - though most of the ones you mentioned are actually still a little different in FF as Kael recoded them from scratch).

It's also not a big priority at the moment however. It will get done, but the time may be better spent elsewhere for now. We have an excellent community who are able to provide as much feedback as we could ever want, so until we're a little more "finished and polished" on the current feature set, I'm not going to spend much time marketing it.

(that being said - I do have some time coming up over the Easter Break - so I'll probably do it as a distraction from Python at some point)

From the standpoint of a developer I can tell you that it is very hard to make documentation in retrospect, though it is very well possible it would be much faster if it were made as the progress goes.

While working on one of my projects, I decided I needed a picture of the tech map to work with... Figured if I wanted one, others might also. :lol: All unique techs are marked with the civ they correspond to, as well as any modmod required for them. Going to put it on the Wiki as well, I think.

While working on one of my projects, I decided I needed a picture of the tech map to work with... Figured if I wanted one, others might also. :lol: All unique techs are marked with the civ they correspond to, as well as any modmod required for them. Going to put it on the Wiki as well, I think.

Seems incomplete. Doesn't Commune with Nature require Feral Bond, at least? There's no graphical link between the two.

that's just one example I can think of.

Seems incomplete. Doesn't Commune with Nature require Feral Bond, at least? There's no graphical link between the two.

that's just one example I can think of.

The icon for Feral Bond is in the top right corner of Commune with Nature. It's an "AND" link, the arrows are "OR" links.

I would imagine that it is actually pretty complete, as it looks to be screenshots of the actual tech tree copied and stuck together...

Like Vehem said, it's an AND prereq, so it's in the top right corner of the tech. It's from in game, so I'd hope it's complete. :lol:

It's not going to be accurate for FFPlus though.... Several shifts. Mostly graphical. Only gameplay-impacting shift I'm willing to talk about would be the removal of the Bowyers requirement from Machinery.

Only gameplay-impacting shift I'm willing to talk about would be the removal of the Bowyers requirement from Machinery.

Hmm - didn't I already do that one? Thought I'd made it so that Machinery was independent from Bowyers but Crossbowmen required the "Bowyer" building, round about the same time I added Industry...

If not - I will be doing shortly :D It'll definitely help the Doviello out in as they (roughly) go for Machinery after Iron Working to get The War Machine, then back to Mithril Working - which required Engineering from the other path anyway (all of that subject to detours and deviations as dictated by economic considerations).

Nope, still requires it.... Checked the FF files to make sure I didn't merge wrong. :lol:

It helps the Jotnar as well, as it allows them to research it..... they're completely blocked from the archery line as it is.

The icon for Feral Bond is in the top right corner of Commune with Nature. It's an "AND" link, the arrows are "OR" links.

I would imagine that it is actually pretty complete, as it looks to be screenshots of the actual tech tree copied and stuck together...

I guess.
I didn't notice that, though. Which leads me to believe that many others wouldn't.


Personally, I really loved the printed fold-out tech tree that came with Civ Ii and Alpha Centaurii. it had lots of spaghetti lines everywhere which seemed confusing at first, but you could actually follow them. you could look at a tech, and follow back each of the lines that led into it to see it's requirements.

On a completely unrelated note, why does Divine Essence require Mithril Working. seems like something that should be along the religious/arcane paths, not the industrial

It would be nice if an OR requirement was shown by having the arrows connect to each other before they touch the destination tech, and an AND requirement just went straight to the tech itself. Changing how the arrows work would be a tad tricky from what I understand, but I haven't looked at it, so it could be simple enough to manage.

Who created the Lizardmen? Were they created as the Humans were? If not, would that mean that they don't have an eternal soul? Since, if I got it right, humans' souls are eternal because of the divine spark of Nemed. Elves and Orcs are humans that were "changed", iirc, so they also have that same divine spark. I don't know for the Dwarves, though... Anyway, I wondered about the Lizardmen (and, in extenso, about the Gnolls)...

As far as I'm aware, lizardmen and other beings like them, were created by Patrian archmages using Humans as a base. Since humans were used in their creation, they have sparks.

Yes, Lizardmen, Centaurs, Lamiae, etc., where all created by patrian mages by combining humans with other animals. I think of them as basically flesh golems with the ability to reproduce. Kezef was likely involved. It was probably mostly Body mana being used, but Life mana definitely played a role in one of the mages creations and Nature and Creation likely did to.

Thanks both of you.

So, I guess the same should be said about my gnolls. Someone suggested it in the Ngomele thread I think. It would be tricky to say that they are the creation of another god... Or maybe they just evolved and haven't the spark.

Not sure where this question gets asked, so I thought here might be good. As a newcomer to FF, i was SHOCKED to see that I lost a game to a Lightning Cultural victory. I was playing a custom game, as I prefer maps with more opponents in a living world with aggressive AI.

My question is, what are the standard victory settings on a normal "play game" game.

Thanks

The quick/lightning victory conditions are the same as the normal versions, but with a lower requirement.

I find them silly personally, but I could see them being useful for lan parties or such, where the players have a limited time together.

You can change what victory conditions are applicable in the custom game screen. To be honest, I only ever use "play game" for quick testing of a tweak. Whenever playing seriously, I use Custom game. Everyone should. so much more control over things.

In the unpatched version I think the problem of Lightning being the default choice was present, but if you are up to date it SHOULD be fixed so that the "normal" time scales are set by default (changed the order of them was all)

What are the little icons next to the tribe name? Right now playing as Malakim, i have a sunburst next to my name. I have also seen a wolf next to the Doviello and a small tree next to the Grigori.

I know the wolf means = at peace with animals.
A sort of head with a blindfold (?) = at peace with barbarians.
A demon head = at peace with demons.

I don't what the other symbols mean...

The sort of head with a blindfold is an orc head, they are the same image as used on the flags for each Barbarian Civ, just get hard to see :)


Sun Mana Icon means you have Light of Lugus effect (all invisible units in your territory are visible to you), Shadow Mana Icon means you have Chosen of Esus effect (all your units not in cities in your territory are invisible), and Nature Mana icon means you have Dowsing active (can see all resources on the map)

The sort of head with a blindfold is an orc head, they are the same image as used on the flags for each Barbarian Civ, just get hard to see :)


Sun Mana Icon means you have Light of Lugus effect (all invisible units in your territory are visible to you), Shadow Mana Icon means you have Chosen of Esus effect (all your units not in cities in your territory are invisible), and Nature Mana icon means you have Dowsing active (can see all resources on the map)

Great, thanks for the info.

What does Republic actually do? I have been running the civic for quite sometime, and have not seen any Elections taking place. How often are they supposed to happen?

What does Republic actually do? I have been running the civic for quite sometime, and have not seen any Elections taking place. How often are they supposed to happen?

Not nearly often enough is the best answer I can give you on that one :). As to what they do:
Each election has a choice between two options. Your first choice has an 80% chance of the first option and a 20% chance of nothing happening. Your second choice is the same for the second option, and the third choice is a 50% chance of either. Most often, you get a choice between two traits (Aggressive or Defender is the one I've gotten the most, but also seen Spiritual, Organized, Industrious, and Philosophical have also shown up), but occasionally you get a choice between Great People.
That's been my experience so far, there may be other things I haven't encountered yet.

Not nearly often enough is the best answer I can give you on that one :). As to what they do:
Each election has a choice between two options. Your first choice has an 80% chance of the first option and a 20% chance of nothing happening. Your second choice is the same for the second option, and the third choice is a 50% chance of either. Most often, you get a choice between two traits (Aggressive or Defender is the one I've gotten the most, but also seen Spiritual, Organized, Industrious, and Philosophical have also shown up), but occasionally you get a choice between Great People.
That's been my experience so far, there may be other things I haven't encountered yet.

Thanks, in some ways I feel that Republic is lacking when those elections don't happen.

how does the AI handle naval behaviour in 051? I'd like to start a game with a continents like map, but I don't want to find out that the AI is crap at that 200 turns in it :lol:

Well, Gekko, in a game I just completed earlier today, the Bannor were in a lone, tiny continent - think Australia. They never made any off-island cities, and I didn't see any boats by the time I found them.

The Scions of Patria were in an island just South of where I started, it was smaller than the Bannor's island, but the Scions were pretty close to the large continent I was on, which had five other civs on it. The Scions never went off-island either, nor did they make any boats...

So, yeah. I don't think they'll be conquering foreign landmasses any time soon. The naval tech tree probably one of the last tech lines they research.

I won a religious victory - only me and the Malakim founded religions... Plus all of the civs had absolutely terrible economies... the Bannor and Scions had giant armies, though, because they never fought anyone.


Unrelated, but I can't think of anywhere to ask, how does the Sheaim ritual Elegy of the Sheaim work in FF, exactly? I was producing them like a madman until I realized that the AC wasn't going up at all from (at least) some of 'em.


Edit: I should have been more specific: does Elegy of the Sheaim stop working after a certain amount have been made, because it wasn't increasing the raw AC, either.

that's because the ritual raises the raw armageddon counter ( which depends on map size and other stuff ) , while the one that's shown in the interface is a percentage.

anyway, awww that's sad about AIs. notque's modmod had them capable of doing fine... we need him back :lol:

Actually, unless they were fixed in 051, both Elegy and Hallowing are broken atm. They're missing the tags that make them affect the AC. Fixed it in FFPlus, only reason I know of it. :lol:

oh, then maybe you should post this in the maybe-a-bug-maybe-not thread Valk ;)

So I discovered 'The Breach' and creepers with it. How do I use them effectively? I want to nurture them, not sacrifice them...

keep creepers alive. plant them somewhere on the edge of your empire and forget about them for 100 turns or so. They mainly act as scouts and watch for enemies, but if they live long enough they can become haunted lands, or sacrifice themselves to damage incoming invaders.

Thanks!

Thanks, in some ways I feel that Republic is lacking when those elections don't happen.

They do happen, it is just random and far between. I have gotten 4-6 per game some times (I run republic a lot)

BTW If you chose the 80/20 and loose then I believe you do not lose the trait from last the last election.

I have not played FFH in a while and never played Farther before, but I noticed "Age: 0" on my warrior and scout when starting a game. What does this mean, that I will have to replace units every so often because they'll die of old age?

I have not played FFH in a while and never played Farther before, but I noticed "Age: 0" on my warrior and scout when starting a game. What does this mean, that I will have to replace units every so often because they'll die of old age?

Not at all, it's just how many turns it's been around. In most cases, you can ignore it. It can be used for a promotion prereq, though, and is used for the Jotnar; As your giants get older, they get stronger. Animals also gain strength with age.

There is an Octopus Ovelord student unit that I cannot control. He's running haphazardly around my lands. I cannot click on him. WTF??? :confused::dunno:

There is an Octopus Ovelord student unit that I cannot control. He's running haphazardly around my lands. I cannot click on him. WTF??? :confused::dunno:

He's under AI control; It's a standard feature of all FfH mods, called Crazed.

No, it's called Enraged. Crazed grants enraged, but does not itself have another effect.

That's just nitpicking, there. :lol:

I don't know how certain "new" elements introduced in FF work. I built a Training Yard which is supposedly required to build a Master Smith, but you have to *have* a Master Smith to build a Master Smith...? :crazyeye::crazyeye::sad: Also, how do you found Fabricaforma, the Farmers Guild, etc? I have the prereq techs, but I still cannot build them?

all of the above require a great person to be founded. The Master buildings require a great engineer, after one is built the rest can be built in their out cities, the guilds are founded by great people as well with Fabricaforma founded by a GE I think and Farmers Guild founded by a great merchant.

Some minor graphics bugs, such as this amusing one where a Champion appears to be wearing a hot pink bodysuit... :p

http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/ff346/spectre73/Civ4BeyondSword001.jpg

What is the implication of the age of a unit? Do they die of old age?
At which number are the borders between good and neutral, evil and neutral?
Does it make a difference if you are more good than another civ?

Is it flavour only or are there effective differences?

he failed to mention the Jontar, who are one of my favorite civs at the beginning

The Jotnar weren't in the original FF, but were added later. That's why they're not mentioned in the first post of this thread.

They're definitely a fun civ to play, though.