Has there been any official word from Firaxis if this is allowed or not? I know that some mods have used assets from other Firaxis games (Pirates! and Railroads come to mind) but I didn't know if this is different because Colonization is newer than Civ4.

Cheers,
ripple01

Well, I think it'd be okay, I mean the game's title starts with the title 'Civilization 4'. This is formally a Civlization 4 expansion pack, it's just a lot different from what you'd expect from the typical expansion.

No it's not a Civ4 expansion pack. It's a stand-alone game.

I know for fact that in Civ3 days, it was not allowed to take Guerrilla unit model from 1st expansion to make a mod for regular Civ3 with same unit.

I guess same would apply here.
Exempt, if explicitly said otherwise.

Wow, this topic comes up every time a new game comes out.

If it doesn't say you can't do it in the ESRA, they haven't posted anywhere that they are against it, or some official Firaxian doesn't post their disapproval in this or any of the other dozens of threads on this topic.. then you can do it.

Stuff has been taken from Pirates! and Railroads! so I don't see why this game would be any different. If you own legit copies of both games then you can do what you want with their contents as long as you don't make money off of it.

If I'm wrong then, please, a Firaxian say so.

Personally, I don't think they care as long as you own a Firaxis game. :)

Stuff has been taken from Pirates! and Railroads! so I don't see why this game would be any different. If you own legit copies of both games then you can do what you want with their contents as long as you don't make money off of it.

Yes, but in case of making Civ4 mod with Colonization assets, in order to make it work you would need to put original Colonization assets as part of download for Civ4 mod.

I don't think it's allowed (sharing original game files, even if just assets).

In all honesty, people use all media from other Firaxis games that we probably shouldn't (Original Railroads assets are in a lot of mods). Not to mention the amount of mods that use copyrighted non-Firaxis songs somewhere:sad:

I'm holding off on doing it for the time being, but I think it's eventually going to be okay. (I hope so or I won't be able to release the next version of my mod which I've already started putting Col leaderheads into)

Why? Well, even if you use the assets I highly doubt you could make a colonization mod for civ 4 (unlike in the example given with civ 3 and its expansion pack.... it's relatively easier to make a base game the same as an expansion pack if you export everything).

Additionally, it is labeled under the Civ 4 brand of games and I remember in some podcast someone mentioning able to use textures from Col in Civ 4. (Someone will have to look that up).

I would suggest that it's fine as long as you don't entirely remake Colonization, but make your own mod. If you remade Colonization in Civ4 (which would be hella hard but not impossible I suspect) they would probably be annoyed.

I would just like to put the Bolivar leaderhead in my Venezuela Civ, or San Martín in my Argentine civ.

I want that gorgeous water on my HUGE civ4 map!!!! I run Nargulok's earth map with 18 BTS civs on Vista 64 with 4GB RAM and I swear its the Civ experience I've always wanted. But, lemme have that beautiful Civ4Col water effect in Civ 4!!! :lol:

Yes, but in case of making Civ4 mod with Colonization assets, in order to make it work you would need to put original Colonization assets as part of download for Civ4 mod.
And does the exact same thing not apply to Pirates! and Railroads! somehow?

It sounds as though Firaxis realises that this doesn't actually hurt them. Realistically nobody buys computer games for spare parts, and disallowing a mod for whatever reason doesn't get more games sold. If someone wants a part of Colonization (or Pirates!, or Railroads! or whatever) in their mod and Firaxis says no, they'll either use original material or they'll abandon the mod. They won't take the effort to write a routine that searches for a legal version of Colonization (or Pirates!, or Railroads! or whatever) and extracts the relevant part. I don't know what Firaxis's position is, but if it were me I wouldn't care.

And does the exact same thing not apply to Pirates! and Railroads! somehow?

The difference is that these assets will be in exactly same form as in original game they came from.

And does the exact same thing not apply to Pirates! and Railroads! somehow?

It sounds as though Firaxis realises that this doesn't actually hurt them. Realistically nobody buys computer games for spare parts, and disallowing a mod for whatever reason doesn't get more games sold. If someone wants a part of Colonization (or Pirates!, or Railroads! or whatever) in their mod and Firaxis says no, they'll either use original material or they'll abandon the mod. They won't take the effort to write a routine that searches for a legal version of Colonization (or Pirates!, or Railroads! or whatever) and extracts the relevant part. I don't know what Firaxis's position is, but if it were me I wouldn't care.


Good points, Dyhad. I agree with everything you've said here and, as someone above pointed out, if one is using a few elements from another game and not trying to copy the whole game, I think it should be OK.

Cheers,
ripple01

The difference is that these assets will be in exactly same form as in original game they came from.

Could you explain how that makes a difference, in a legal sense? Copyrighted material is copyrighted material regardless of what form you do or don't convert it to. For example, I may change a Railroads! model from Railroads NIF format to Civ4 NIF format, but it is still the same model and looked at as the same object in a legal sense.

The law doesn't work the way it sounds good or even logical. Its all about what you gained (ie do or don't make money on) and if anything was deprived of the Rights Owner (ie they lost money or were prevented from making money).

Again, unless you can point to some where that an official Firaxian said any part of Civ4, Warlords, Beyond the Sword, Colonization 2, Pirates!, or Railroads! is off limits to cross game modding or modding in general, then you can assume you are completly within your rights to do as you wish with any of the legal products you own.

Another expansion another copyright conversation, personally I have to agree with Jeckel


Again, unless you can point to some where that an official Firaxian said any part of Civ4, Warlords, Beyond the Sword, Colonization 2, Pirates!, or Railroads! is off limits to cross game modding or modding in general, then you can assume you are completly within your rights to do as you wish with any of the legal products you own.


But saying that... no-one that has spoken yet, has any 'real' authority one way or the other to say yes or no. Until you hear from one of them I would say do what your going to do without fear, and if someone with that authority says hey.. wait a min.. Then it would be a good time to stop cause it would be then when your about to cross that line.


Edit: This reminds me though, I heard that there might be problums using Civ 4 graphics in Colonization because of a new shader.. Is this true on all things or specific things? And if so is there a converter or anything like that, that might help moving them?

Again, unless you can point to some where that an official Firaxian said any part of Civ4, Warlords, Beyond the Sword, Colonization 2, Pirates!, or Railroads! is off limits to cross game modding or modding in general, then you can assume you are completly within your rights to do as you wish with any of the legal products you own.

Sadly for you, the law doesn't work that way. You don't have to gain anything to be infringing of copyright, nor does the copyright owner have to be losing anything tangible. You could copy some guy's painting, and pay New Yorker Magazine $100,000 to print an ad with it solely advertising that people should buy the painting, and you'd still be infringing upon his copyright.

That said, as I said earlier, I don't think Firaxis is going to object in this case. There's no reason for them to, and they have not objected in the past, as long as you don't entirely remake Col (and thus give people a reason not to buy it).

After doing a little looking, I ran into this


Amendments to the 1976 Copyright Act

No Electronic Theft Act (NET Act), a federal law passed in 1997

With the passage of the so-called No Electronic Theft Act (NET Act), US copyright law was changed to allow for the civil and criminal prosecution of persons allegedly engaged in copying of copyrighted works without permission that did not result in personal financial gain; historically, the criminal copyright law required infringement to be for financial gain. Among other things, the NET Act altered the definition of financial gain to include bartering and trading. In addition, under this US law, members of software piracy groups could also be prosecuted for participation in a criminal enterprise.


This is not related to whether you can or can't copy assets (As I still have the same opinion on that) Just to Jeckel/Snoopys discussion on the profit part of the copyright law.

The reason why they have the name "Civilization 4" after Colonization is because it's using the Civ 4 engine to remake the colonization game on the Civ 4 engine.

As to the NET Act mentioned by Melinko.

The text in the following spoiler is cut/pasted from the Department of Justice's website.

On Tuesday, December 16, 1997, the President signed into law H.R. 2265, the "No Electronic Theft (NET)" Act. The Act was passed unanimously by both houses of Congress (143 Cong. Rec. S12689 and 143 Cong. Rec. H9883-01).

The NET Act strengthens the copyright and trademark laws, providing enhanced protection in the digital age in a careful and balanced manner. The criminal copyright and trademark provisions in titles 17 and 18 of the U.S. Code are amended to:

* Permit the Department to prosecute individuals under misdemeanor or felony provisions^(1) <#N_1_> in cases involving large-scale illegal reproduction or distribution of copyrighted works where the infringers act willfully but without a discernible profit motive, bridging the gap in statutory protection discussed in _U.S. v. LaMacchia_, 871 F. Supp. 535 (D. Mass. 1994);

* Exempt from criminal prosecution reproduction or distribution that is not done "willfully" or that constitutes small-scale non-commercial copying (copyrighted works with a total retail value of less than $1,000);

* Clarify that "willful" infringement must consist of evidence of more than the mere intentional reproduction or distribution of copyrighted works;

* Define "financial gain" in the Copyright Act (17 U.S.C. 101 et seq.) to include the "receipt, or expectation of receipt, of anything of value, including the receipt of other copyrighted works," to ensure that persons who illegally traffic in copyrighted works by using barter rather than cash are covered by the statute;

* Clarify that "reproduction or distribution" includes by electronic as well as tangible means;

* Extend the statute of limitations from three to five years, making the criminal copyright statute consistent with most other criminal statutes;

* Establish a recidivist provision which raises penalties for second or subsequent felony copyright offenses;

* Recognize victims' rights by allowing parties who own rights in the pirated copyrighted works or in trademarks on counterfeit goods to provide a victim impact statement to the sentencing court; and

* Enhance the deterrent power of the copyright criminal laws by directing the Sentencing Commission to amend the Sentencing Guideline for copyright and trademark infringement to allow courts to consider the quantity of infringing goods and the retail value of the good infringed upon, rather than the often lower value of the infringing good, when sentencing defendants. Copies of the trademark and copyright provisions as amended by the NET Act are attached. These are 17 U.S.C. §§ 101, 506, and 507 and 18 U.S.C. §§ 2319, 2319A, and 2320. New language appears in bold typeface. The Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section (CCIPS), Criminal Division, is preparing a supplement to the manual "Federal Prosecution of Violations of Intellectual Property Rights - Copyrights, Trademarks and Trade Secrets" which will explain and incorporate the changes effected by the NET Act. The supplement will be reproduced and distributed to recipients of the manual and will be posted on our website (www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *1.* The reproduction or distribution of 10 or more copies of 1 or more copyrighted works which have a total retail value of $2,500 or more constitutes a felony, with a maximum sentence of three years imprisonment and a fine of $250,000. The reproduction or distribution of 1 or more copies of 1 or more copyrighted works which have a total retail value of more than $1,000 constitutes a misdemeanor, with a one-year maximum sentence and a fine of up to $100,000. Return to CCIPS page

For those that don't speak legaleze, that admendment to the copyright laws did several things.

First, it clarified that coping of electronic things was the same as coping physical objects.

Second, it clarified "financial gain" to mean receiving or expectation of receiving anything of value. Basicly this was to cover those that traded stolen songs or movies for other stolen songs or movies.

Third, and most important to us, that admendment made some exemptions to copyright infringment prosecution. If the infringment was not "willful" or did not total atleast $1,000 in value, then you can not be prosecuted.

Fourth, it clarified that for infringment to be considered "willful" there must be more evidence then just the coping/distributing of copyrighted material.


Bottom line, the prosecution of copyright infringment still total revolves around the "willful" intent to infringe on those rights.

The use of copyrighted material in a mod released with the intent to provide enjoyment of a game does not constitute "willful infringement". Don't ask for anything in return for making your mods and you can include any copyrighted material you want, but the moment you ask for money, beer, postcards, or anything else of value in return you will fall squarly under the bad area of the law.

EDIT: For those that don't like to google things, http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime.

Leaving piracy issues aside...

Would it be possible to mod Bolivar's LH into regular Civ4:BTS?

Third, and most important to us, that admendment made some exemptions to copyright infringment prosecution. If the infringment was not "willful" or did not total atleast $1,000 in value, then you can not be prosecuted.


Good find, and actually this makes sense when you look at how 'most' companies handle the problem. The first thing they do in most cases is send a cease and desist letter (Basically a letter that says stop it heh). If you continue it shows you are willfully infringing on their copyright.

So in other words there is no rules against using the assets, in any Civ product in another Civ Product... And if there were, they would not immediately sue you for damages (Unless you were selling it for profit). But at least send a letter telling you to stop it.

So stop worrying and get to work! LOL :goodjob:

Leaving piracy issues aside...

Would it be possible to mod Bolivar's LH into regular Civ4:BTS?

Once I get Civ4:Col. I'm going to find out ;)

Leaving piracy issues aside...

Would it be possible to mod Bolivar's LH into regular Civ4:BTS?

Hmm, I too am tempted to add Bolivar to my Venezuela mod but I'm not sure "WHAT" can happen!

As for your question...yes MadmanOfALeader, I tried and it is possible...:D


http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/5839/44585179bq3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

did you have to change anything or you just copied the files over and did the proper xml work?

if so i guess the shader 1.1 stuff won't be a problem (though what the hell is with Bolivar's suit, it seems anachronistic)

the only thing I noticed with the "colonization" xml was that it doesn't use the "shadernif" tag line.

All the leaderheads can be moved really easily and as they are, along with half the units and buildings, and work fine with no problems.

Some buildings have their textures mess up when you transport them and the terrain graphics also either don't work or have problems.

I hope we are allowed to move them. I've already put all the leaderheads in my personal version of my mod and would like to eventually be able to release it.

Also it should be noted that some of the leaderheads seem to be made for different leaders than what they are eventually used as.

Mangas Coloradas is listed as Cochise in the files (a few natives are listed as someone else actually). Although Bolivar is labeled Bolivar in the files I highly suspect that the leaderhead was made for Cortez or someone else as it doesn't really resemble Bolivar imo.

Also, at least half of the leaderheads are either repeats or actually just really good re-skins, e.g. Champlain is a reskin of Jao

I noticed that about Cochise to (which is who I am going to use the art for in the LH modpack I have been assembling).

I agree on Bolivar, he doesnt really look like him.

I am having a hard time with the Kings.

France is obviously Louis from Civ4 fame
England: I think is Charles II
Netherlands: William, I dont believe its William the Silent, might be a decendent
Spain: Ferdinand I.

in any event I was going to mod the 3 new ones in as well, along with Adams, Logan, Cochise and the Cherokee LH.

i'm going to modify the colonization bolivar to get rid of the goatee and put him the red suit i made for my leaderhead.

on that note many people posted reskins of warlords and BtS leaderheads and firaxis hasn't said anything so would posting colonization leaderheads really matter?

Well all the dds files in the KING_ENGLAND folder are listed as George and I suppose historically George III fits, though they style is also a bit anachronistic. His style is definitely more fitting for Charles II.

Since people have already released some of the graphics (the dutch leaderheads) and someone released the marsh mod for BTS today I'm going to say it's okay. When I'm done with the next version of my mod which uses all the leaderheads in some capacity I'm just going to post it and if there's a problem take it down later

did you have to change anything or you just copied the files over and did the proper xml work?


I have copied over several miscellaneous art files from Civ 4 (arrows,lines,tech buttons) into Colonization and it all seems to work fine, and look just like it did. I haven't tried a unit yet, but I am interested in seeing if it works, and if it does if they look the same.

You do just have to add to the XML just like in Civ 4, but unless that specific XML you want isn't there (Which is a pain, but shouldn't happen if you just wanting to add one in.) you should be fine.:goodjob:

All units and leaderheads from Colonization work fine in Civ 4 as well as any building that doesn't have a gloss file. Terrain - mainly the ocean - has problems.

Speaking of which, can anyone here add the great person glow to the Colonization Great General? It animates attaches to units all the same as in civ 4 - its just missing it's glow.

If that's not too difficult and you have time could you add it to the elder statesman and farmer units (i could use them for my great person mod).

Units (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190762&d=1223399668)

tsentom,

I fpked all the leaderheads and put them in my personal bts mod but found that the game gets slowed down a lot. have you notied this?

I have a GeForce 8600M GT on a 2GHz dual Core laptop with 2GB RAM - so I find it hard to believe its my computer (mainly since Colonization runs great1)

I'm thinking there might be a problem with civ4 compatibility. I don't see it in the civilopedia but I do see it in game. :(

Hey, where are these released Dutch leaderhead files. You may remember me Tsentom, I am trying to get all the native leaderheads from Colonization as well as the Dutch ones and Simon Bolivar (who I am going to use as Philip II of Spain) for a mod I am working on. I was hoping someone would have already released these by now, but I guess I'm wrong.

Anyway this would be helpful to me if you could point me in the right direction, or at least remember to e-mail me the files I asked you for (remember its TRuiz024@gmail.com). I have a feeling if these LHs work good we're going to see a lot of new leaderheads soon.

EDIT: I DLed those dutch leaderheads, and they aren't full files. So if you would be so nice to send me Van der donck that would be splendid of you.

~ekmek

I have all the leaderheads in my personal version of Thomas War that I'm editing for release and haven't noticed any significant slow down. However, I haven't really played any game for a significant length (as I'm mainly just testing to see if things work at the moment. I'll try to do a longer game this weekend and test it). Then again, Thomas War is slightly slower due to me calling the unit and building cost python defines but not by much. I also use a bunch of units and buildings from Colonization. What are the game conditions (map size, players, later in the game etc) when you experience the slowdown and do you mean longer times between turns, or running choppy etc.

My computer is about the same as yours. Also, how did you do the leaderhead artdefines (though I don't see how we would have done the xml different but you never know)

I'm going to try it (using colonization assets in civ4). If anyone with authority would tell me not to, then I'd just keep the mod to myself for personal play. After all, if you own the games legally, you should be able to do with them as you please :).

~ekmek

I have all the leaderheads in my personal version of Thomas War that I'm editing for release and haven't noticed any significant slow down. However, I haven't really played any game for a significant length (as I'm mainly just testing to see if things work at the moment. I'll try to do a longer game this weekend and test it). Then again, Thomas War is slightly slower due to me calling the unit and building cost python defines but not by much. I also use a bunch of units and buildings from Colonization. What are the game conditions (map size, players, later in the game etc) when you experience the slowdown and do you mean longer times between turns, or running choppy etc.

My computer is about the same as yours. Also, how did you do the leaderhead artdefines (though I don't see how we would have done the xml different but you never know)


weird. when I fpk the colonization LHs (and have a separate colonization.fpk) I start the game and its all choppy. but i got rid of the fpk and just copied the graphic files over and the game runs fine. weird. for the record my mod has Varietas Delectat plus all my leaderheads in separate fpks but runs fine. I also put all the fpk in the original assets folder in program files to save space (so I can access them from different mods). only with te colonizationLH.fpk in there does it kill my mod. weird.

Hmm, wierd

Yeah I haven't packed any of the new leaderheads. Waiting till all the new art I'll be including in my next version is in before I pack it all at once.

Maybe we just can't pack the new art files.

[QUOTE=DWOLF;7289995]Hmm, I too am tempted to add Bolivar to my Venezuela mod but I'm not sure "WHAT" can happen!

As for your question...yes MadmanOfALeader, I tried and it is possible...:D

QUOTE]

What did you do for the button?

Hmm, I too am tempted to add Bolivar to my Venezuela mod but I'm not sure "WHAT" can happen!

As for your question...yes MadmanOfALeader, I tried and it is possible...:D

I was trying to do something very similar, although with the King of Spain. For some reason, everything works...except for the eyebrows. I have bright pink lines over his eyes. I tried the same with Logan of the Iroquois as another Native leader and Civ, and I have the same problem. How did you avoid the graphics bugs?

I thought it had something to do with the lack of a noshader .nif file, but I'm not a graphics expert (I have done no graphics editing on my own). I tried substituting the base leaderhead's noshader *.nif file (for the King of Spain, it looks like Qin Shi Huang)...but that didn't work.

Or, what did you do to add him successfully? I've never added a Civ, so I'm making it up as I go along. I tried to upload the Native archers from the game (the Braves), and all I have is an archer who looks like he has been crucified (not animated at all).

copy the eyebrows.dds file from frontenac to the king-spain leaderhead folder and that fixes the pink eyes, put NONE for the nonshader file.

What I need is how to get the buttons to work, I get a pink box right now...

Okay, that fix worked for me. I got the icons by copying out the Colonization atlas thing.

More than likely, you copied just the Atlas map and its location on the map. Now, just make up a new file location, formatted like the normal Civ4 entries, immediately before it. I don't have my code with me at the moment, but you will have something like this:

,Art,...Colonization_Atlas,x,y

Just write this: ,Art/.../NAME.dds,Art...Colonization_Atlas,x,y

You don't actually need a file. I don't know why, but it works.

If anyone's interested I use a bunch of the colonization assets in my Thomas War 3.1 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11092) mod I just released (BTS) and I also made Civ 4 style buttons for the Colonization leaders (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11086) (as the colonization atlas is in a slightly different style).

Did you use any music from Colonization? I tried to copy over some of the soundtracks, modified the AudioDefines, Audio2DScripts, and EraInfos, but it crashes every time I open it.