Hi, I'm a casual Civ4 player and a old player of Colonization though I haven't played in years. So far I like this new iteration even if I miss some stuff like the land sharing (Now it's all or nothing with the Amerindians). But twice now I've tried to declare independence and got creamed. You might have some tips and/or clues to help me?

Here's my situation now:

Tunr 174 on Epic/Pioneer/Huge. I have 5 colonies 3 well developed and 2 still developing. My main export (read almost only export) is the Coats. 4 of my colonies have Beavers/Stags in their radius and I must produce about 100 coats a turn globally. The last colony is producing Ore/Tools/Weapons (Though the Weapon part is still not matured). I have good relations with my Amerindians neighbor (Mainly for the Fur Trapper training and because I felt that War with them even if they do hold some resources felt economically unviable). I have 5 Veterans Soldiers (mostly through the King and a few lucky Immigrants), 4 Cannons and a Frigate.

I don't have any Rebel support. The problem is that I tried to put a few colonists to gather support, but as soon as I did so, the King started investing like mad in the REF (A unit a turn for at least 5 consecutive turns for a mere 1% Rebel support) I can't imagine keeping up with him. Also I had picked the Dutch exactly because of their Tax reduction (Well the +100% time between increases.) but now my tax rate is even higher than what I had at the same date during my last game and it's going up fast with the King pestering me every few turns. (27%) What cause this?

Also am I the only one who feel that it's quite stupid that it becomes much less costly to hire low-level expert colonists (I.e.: Farmer/Fisherman/Lumberjack) at 1200 rather that hurry the immigrant at 2000+? You can always do this, cancel the training and train him in the specialty you want or just use his as a Free Colonist.

So basically I'm asking for mid to late game tips on how to deal with taxes and the REF mostly.

Hi, I'm a casual Civ4 player and a old player of Colonization though I haven't played in years. So far I like this new iteration even if I miss some stuff like the land sharing (Now it's all or nothing with the Amerindians). But twice now I've tried to declare independence and got creamed. You might have some tips and/or clues to help me?

Here's my situation now:

Tunr 174 on Epic/Pioneer/Huge. I have 5 colonies 3 well developed and 2 still developing. My main export (read almost only export) is the Coats. 4 of my colonies have Beavers/Stags in their radius and I must produce about 100 coats a turn globally. The last colony is producing Ore/Tools/Weapons (Though the Weapon part is still not matured). I have good relations with my Amerindians neighbor (Mainly for the Fur Trapper training and because I felt that War with them even if they do hold some resources felt economically unviable). I have 5 Veterans Soldiers (mostly through the King and a few lucky Immigrants), 4 Cannons and a Frigate.

Problem number one ... diversify, diversify, diversify. You need multiple products if you are going to keep your money flowing.

I don't have any Rebel support. The problem is that I tried to put a few colonists to gather support, but as soon as I did so, the King started investing like mad in the REF (A unit a turn for at least 5 consecutive turns for a mere 1% Rebel support) I can't imagine keeping up with him. Also I had picked the Dutch exactly because of their Tax reduction (Well the +100% time between increases.) but now my tax rate is even higher than what I had at the same date during my last game and it's going up fast with the King pestering me every few turns. (27%) What cause this?

That's sort of how it is ... the more rebel support, the more REF. You should be able to build a lot of military yourself if this is a problem, though. I'd guess this is why Dale suggests elsewhere to put off liberty bell production for a while, though I did it early enough in my game (and have high taxes and a huge REF, of course). You can always hold a (whatever) party instead of accepting the tax ...


Also am I the only one who feel that it's quite stupid that it becomes much less costly to hire low-level expert colonists (I.e.: Farmer/Fisherman/Lumberjack) at 1200 rather that hurry the immigrant at 2000+? You can always do this, cancel the training and train him in the specialty you want or just use his as a Free Colonist.

Oh, it's even better if you have the 1/2 cost unit purchasing FF. 600 per farmer :)
Crosses reduce this, of course, so invest in some churches and start working them; that will give you cheaper immigration.


So basically I'm asking for mid to late game tips on how to deal with taxes and the REF mostly.

Build more units? :)

Tunr 174 on Epic/Pioneer/Huge. I have 5 colonies 3 well developed and 2 still developing.

I think thats your main problem, you should have way more colonies in this stage of the game.

Do what I will now refer to as:

The Reb Rush! (c)

To firstly explain, if you were King George, and saw rebel sentiment rising in the colonies ("Down With George!", "On no we won't go!" and other placards) you'd be worried too and beef up the REF. :D

Anyways, the point of this strategy is to:
1. Race as FAST as possible from zero sentiment to the required 50% sentiment.
2. Minimise the size of the REF.

Point 2 is easy to fulfil, as just producing zero bells will cause the King to lavish in you dollars and not increase the size of the REF (I have done the DoI around 200 turns with the REF being something like 10 soldiers, 8 dragoons, etc).

The trick to this strategy is point 1. Rush to DoI. Once you have the DoI the REF does not increase. It should be decreasing (as you kill them) ;). For this strategy to work you need:

1. Two elder statesmen fortified outside each colony.
2. Newspapers in each colony.
3. Lots of colonists in your cities (just produce more food) and each colony with a maximum of guns and horses. This is because units outside of colonies cannot be made rebels, they count against the big reb counter (even if all you cities are 100% sentiment). :)
4. No units outside of cities that don't need to be (to support point 3).

When you're ready, dump those two elder statesmen into the town hall, and you'll start rising quickly. Also change every colony to produce politics points (the politicians REALLY help you out!). From this point on, reject every single tax increase. Do not trade with the King. No point giving the King more money to buy more bullets to shoot at you. :)

Your sentiment should then race upwards, and the King will invest in the REF heavily. Don't worry, that's why you loaded your colonies with useless colonists and guns. :p Once you hit 50% have the DoI and immediately convert all those colonists into soldiers. You can even get away with only having natives in your colonies, and everyone else in the army. :)

You'll be facing a much smaller REF (probably around 40 units) instead of the usual 100+ if you produce bells slowely the whole game. :)

I think thats your main problem, you should have way more colonies in this stage of the game.

Not really. It's easier to defend 6 colonies than 12. I only have 6 colonies in any one game. :)

I understand what you're saying, Dale, about rushing to the 50%, but I don't much care for that strategy - it seems like an exploit, and at the same time misses founding fathers, which are interesting (if not that valuable). I think I'd prefer it if you were limited like in Col1 to having only 6 or 7 non-rebel citizens (essentially, unhappy faces that are countered by happy faces, ie rebels) before you start having penalties. It would make the game more interesting, and force you to have some bells (or not have huge colonies).

You can produce politics points in colonies you know right? They are the FF points. You don't have to produce bells to accumulate politics points.

Yeah, but you don't get nearly as many unless you just produce politics points; and again, I prefer the game to play more reasonably than that.

:lol: You can't have it all mate. And besides, you get 3 points per hammer, that's not a small amount. :)

Enjoy those 100+ REF's. ;)

This strategy seems like an exploit and feels like if I DON'T do it, I will lose. Meaning, every game will be the same. I'm regetting ordering this now, as I thought it would have the replayability and awesomeness of all the CIV series.

I suspect there are other strategies out there; and if not, the game can be fixed. We'll see if a 100+ REF is manageable or not. If not, i'll mod it to reduce the REF size until it's appropriate. Colonization itself is quite replayable, probably as much as Civ; it just may need tweaking. :)

Dale, that's really the issue - if it is as you say, and only really beatable by putting off liberty bells until the end, that is not a good game. It's no different from all-slavery-all-the-time Civ4, as it was initially - but even worse, as all-slavery was just a small part of the gameplay, while not having any liberty bells is a LARGE part of it.

That said, we'll see. Liberty bells early on gives you big advantages - 1/2 of the rebel percentage as increase in your production, so a 70% rebel city gets 1/3 more of everything; and the increased FFs is nice also. Whether it pays for the increased REFs or not will be interesting to see. Obviously this is something easily enough fixed in a patch or a mod if it's just a gameplay balance issue.

Yeah, I had hoped they'd go up a bit faster than they do. I had 3 Elders working at my Newspapers since I got my first 6000 gold and the city stays at like 40%... :(

Course the pop is about 20.

:lol: That's a lot of population.

Yeah, I use my Civ1 strategy of a bunch of raw material feeder cities and then one manufacturing/food centre that produces everything.

It's enjoyable and it takes a lot of work setting up the infrastructure.

I could certainly see it working, but I suspect the Elder Statesmen limit could be a problem. I sort of work the other way around - I like to have specialized manufacturing cities and one giant food city to provide colonists for those other cities. Easier to keep the population low enough to have plenty of elder statesmen running the show. :)

I suspect there are other strategies out there; and if not, the game can be fixed. We'll see if a 100+ REF is manageable or not. If not, i'll mod it to reduce the REF size until it's appropriate. Colonization itself is quite replayable, probably as much as Civ; it just may need tweaking. :)

Dale, that's really the issue - if it is as you say, and only really beatable by putting off liberty bells until the end, that is not a good game. It's no different from all-slavery-all-the-time Civ4, as it was initially - but even worse, as all-slavery was just a small part of the gameplay, while not having any liberty bells is a LARGE part of it.

That said, we'll see. Liberty bells early on gives you big advantages - 1/2 of the rebel percentage as increase in your production, so a 70% rebel city gets 1/3 more of everything; and the increased FFs is nice also. Whether it pays for the increased REFs or not will be interesting to see. Obviously this is something easily enough fixed in a patch or a mod if it's just a gameplay balance issue.

Oh definitely, and I bet there IS other very viable strategies. And like you say, I miss a lot of FF's early on because I don't have the politics points coming in. But I get a lot of the later FF's because my exploration, trade, military and religion points are so high when I start generating politics points they just topple to me. But I do miss some of the best ones. :( A free stockade in every colony is useful early on.

The Reb Rush is only one strategy, and the OP was after a method of dealing with mid-late game taxes and REF. This strategy allows for easy dealing with it by pure reduction. But you do suffer in other areas (less production output, less FF's and harder to move cities when you do start the statesmen as the cities are quite big by turn 200). It also doesn't allow for the early DoI either. :)

Other strategies I know for a fact that work are the Spanish Native Scorched Earth strategy (kill every native and convert the treasure to soldiers) and the massive fortress empire (10-15 colonies maxed out in defenses). Some strategies come with huge REF's that you can meet with a huge rebel army, and some come with small REF's like the Reb Rush.

That's what I love about this new iterration, it provides so many different play styles. :)

Let's get some more of those beta-testers posting about their strategies then... with only you posting it sounds rather one-sided. ;)

Most of the beta-testers wouldn't even know Poly or CFC if it bit them. They came from the "public test" recruitment drive at the start of the year. :p

How do you hire low-level expert colonists without hurrying immigrants? I bought the Steam version and didn't get a manual...

$ sign by Purchase above your colonists choice.

I think thats your main problem, you should have way more colonies in this stage of the game.
Well, How many Cities should I strive for then? I ask because I usually am a turtleler, preferring small number of larges colonies (10-15 pop each) but obviously I could be wrong.

For the taxes, I didn't see the correlation between the Bells and the taxes since I still didn't had any bells to my name when I achieved a 27% tax in my game.

Also I want to thanks everyone for all the replies. I'm still trying to get the hang of the game, I understand the basics with no problems, but not the strategies yet but I think this will come.

Also which nation is the best? I tried England and Dutch now. Washington was good for the weapons but useless (or almost) for the immigration. The Dutch are nice for the Merchantman but I didn't felt the other bonuses... Prices still changes, Taxes still rises fast.

Finally I want to ask, is the European ally still in the game? I remember that in the original, when the WoI was declared, you could build a lot of crosses or bells (not sure which one) and France or whoever would send it's own REF to help you fight the English, is that still in? Because I didn't see any indication that it is.

Again, thanks for the replies.