If you can narrow the problem down to something specific that would probably help. For example the next time it crashes, re-load and do the exact same thing. If it still crashes then it's likely game related but if it's crashing spontaneously (with little rhyme or reason) then it's more likely a general computer problem.

Well, I don't have the most cutting edge computer but it can run Crysis on high settings at a decent framrate. There's 4 gigs of RAM so I don't think that's the issue either.

The issue is becoming increasingly more prevalent. Every few turns it does this now (in the early-mid renaissance era, 1750 or so). This happens right before my turn, after the ai comes to me for diplomacy. I can't be more specific -- I save every turn, and if the game crashes, I load the save of that turn without doing anything differently, and it doesn't crash. When it does crash, the game briefly loops the audio before the computer resets, which made me believe it was some sort of infinite loop or something.

I did make a few small tweaks to the game, such as giving civs 2 settlers to begin with instead of 1, greatly increasing barbarian frequency and rate of barbarian city spawning, and reducing the chances of revolutions in the .ini file, but I doubt these contribute to the crash. For a while I thought perhaps the game was trying to spawn a new barbarian city but it had run out of available names to call it, but I don't think that's it (still not entirely sure though).

If nobody else is getting these issues, I guess it must be something on my end though. I'll try turning off barbarian city spawning in the xml and see if that helps anything.

EDIT: Issue appears to be resolved; seems to have resulted from unstable graphics card overclocking (oddly enough this didn't affect any other games, just civ)

hmmm, well, I've never experienced this. I've had it crash once or twice, but had the same thing happen with unmodded BtS. I wouldn't have released this mod if it wasn't stable just in general. When I first started modding, I had my share of crashes occur, but these were all reproduceable, sometimes I could fix the issue, ask for help here, and fix the issue, sometimes I was at a loss, but the key thing was I could reproduce the CTD. In your case, since saving and reloading doesn't cause the crash on the same turn, I have no idea where to even begin trying to figure out the cause. Sorry I can't be of more help, but I honestly think your issue is comp specific. Try using WolfRev 1.1.2, that might fix the issue for you, or wait till the next release and try that one. Personally i wouldn't be willing to play a mod that crashed every few turns myself. Then again on my old rig it takes a few minutes to load up CIV.

Edit:I've got another strange bug, my attack submarines aren't getting promotions past 10 xp. I have some that show 11/10 xp, but the blue promotion light doesn't come on for them. It only seems to be happening to attack subs (I don't know about boomer subs... none of them have over 10 xp yet).
Additionally, I still haven't figured out why tile improvement bombing isn't working. Can anyone tell me where that's located in xml so I can see if something's messed up?
Well, my guess is that this is because the UnitCombat that the attack sub is in doesn't have access to any more promotions, you can check this in the promotioninfos.xml in the units XML folder. Because I am expecting Wolfshanze 2.86 to come out soon, I will not be looking into this myself though. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, when WolfRev 1.3.x is released I'll make sure to look into this.

Hmm, well it turns out my brother had overclocked the video card to the point where it was slightly unstable. He reduced that, and I played for 20 or so turns without any crashes so I think the issue is solved. Sorry to have cluttered the thread.

To be productive to the thread, one thing I've noticed is that barbarians get rams and capped rams, which seems strange since they don't get any siege weapons in vanilla. I'm sure that this is from Wolfshanze's mod, but I figured I'd mention it here.

Hmm, well it turns out my brother had overclocked the video card to the point where it was slightly unstable. He reduced that, and I played for 20 or so turns without any crashes so I think the issue is solved. Sorry to have cluttered the thread.

To be productive to the thread, one thing I've noticed is that barbarians get rams and capped rams, which seems strange since they don't get any siege weapons in vanilla. I'm sure that this is from Wolfshanze's mod, but I figured I'd mention it here.

Yeah, they do. They also get Axemen and Spearmen, so you have to be on your guard, even if you're not at war with anyone.

I've got another strange bug, my attack submarines aren't getting promotions past 10 xp. I have some that show 11/10 xp, but the blue promotion light doesn't come on for them. It only seems to be happening to attack subs (I don't know about boomer subs... none of them have over 10 xp yet).
Additionally, I still haven't figured out why tile improvement bombing isn't working. Can anyone tell me where that's located in xml so I can see if something's messed up?

I've seen this happen where you promote standard subs with flanking 1 & 2 to attack subs. Once they're promoted, they're over the max withdrawal chance allowed and they never get any more promotions regardless of experience.

Well if that's the cause it's an easy fix, but it wol't come out till the 1.3.x build. Also this would be intrinsic to the Wolfshanze mod as well, if that's what's causing it.

Edit: As far as barbarians getting rams, it would be easy enough to remove (CivilizationsInfos.xml if you're interested), never really thought about it.

I'd rather the "Feature" be kept. I see no problem with barbs having rams

Very nice merge

i suggest to merge also culturally linked start mod and assimilation mod...

and possibly next war! :scan::goodjob:

i suggest to merge also culturally linked start mod and assimilation mod...
I'd have to compile a new gamecore. Honestly, I'm a lazy bastard, and haven't figured out how to do that yet. I do agree though, those would be nice aditional options in the mod.

I'd rather the "Feature" be kept. I see no problem with barbs having rams

I don't either; it is an inconsistency though (they don't get any other siege weapons). I think giving them rams weakens them since they never attack in stacks big enough to utilize them.

I don't either; it is an inconsistency though (they don't get any other siege weapons). I think giving them rams weakens them since they never attack in stacks big enough to utilize them.

Ever play with Raging Barbarians? They do then. Once I saw 1 Ram, 2 Archers and an Axeman on a hill outside of one of my cities. I killed them in the end, but I had to divert a reasonable amount of my military to deal with them.

Ever play with Raging Barbarians? They do then. Once I saw 1 Ram, 2 Archers and an Axeman on a hill outside of one of my cities. I killed them in the end, but I had to divert a reasonable amount of my military to deal with them.

I actually mod my game to be completely infested with barbarians and animals. It kills early exploration and thew entire game is basically slowly pushing back the barbarians until the middle ages (This also works well with revolutions since so many civs form from barbarians). The game I'm playing right now still has 10 or so barbarian cities in 1920 AD (early industrial era). However, I rarely see barbarians in a stack; most of the time it's just a steady trickle of units. In my game, the barbarians just sent their rams in unprotected

Hi Phungus,

Just thought i would upload a save which still seems to be showing a bug with diplomacy even with the newest version of WolfRev.

The save is one turn before England asks me to join the war against the mongols. Problem is that although i can highlight either response - both are inactive. The only way out is to quit civ entirely. (i believe others are experiencing similar problems)

I hope my save can help to solve the problem.

One thought i have is that perhaps it is due to the fact that i am running "Civ4 Complete" the edition which was sold With BTS included on the same disc, rather than vanilla Civ4 with BTS on top. This does mean that i have a slighlty diffenent path to my mods folder to most (i think). Mine is :-

C:\Program Files\2K Games\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Complete\Beyond the Sword\Mods\WolfRevolution

Not sure if something to do with this could be causing me to have issues? Your Previous version (pre 1.2.1) worked fine.

Thanks,

The Badger.

redacted drunken ravings

Thanks for the save Badger, but I can't reproduce this on my end. When England makes the demand, I just pick the no option and the game continues fine. Last time your save with the blank diplo bug helped me fix it, but this time since I can't reproduce it, I don't have any way to figure out what could be causing the problem for some users.

Someone on here reported that when the unresponsive diplo bug happened to them, they just saved while the demand was being made, and reloaded, and the game continued on fine. Hope that would work for you.

Figure I should attach this as well, it's your save after I picked no to the demand, so you can continue your game if saving and reloading doesn't work.

Ryhse and Fall had a similar problem with the Egyptians for a bit maybe you could ask Rhye if hes got any advice ?

When I start a new game, I don't have any UI elements, although issuing commands with the keyboard does seem to work. Is this a known bug?

So, here's an interesting one - really related to the IDW module.

In my current game, I was attacking the Austrians. I had a few artillery units sitting two squares away from the city I was attacking, with a couple covering infantry units and my early tanks with a couple additional infantry units right north of the Austrian city. Immediately to the north of me was the territory of the Russian rebels, who had broken away from the Austrians. I didn't have a open border agreement with them, as my plan was to capitulate the Austrians, then declare on the Russians, capture their cities and liberate them back to Austria.

Well, I bombarded away their defenses and proceeded to attack. About the third attack on the Austrian city and *poof* all my tanks, infantry and artillery in the area seemed to disappear. I was kind of freaking out, because my super-promoted, great general led, hammer of a tank had vanished. Then I realized what had happened. My attacks on the Austrian city had enough of a cultural influence that the tiles I was attacking from had flipped to Russian control, causing my units to be relocated to the nearest friendly area. Which turned out to be two different spots. One for the arty and it's covering infantry, one for the attacking tanks and infantry. Both spots were now 3 moves away from being back in attacking position!

I was still able to achieve my plans, but talk about a weird situation! Wonder if there's any way to fix how the units are relocated so they can at least stay close to the city that they're attacking...

When I start a new game, I don't have any UI elements, although issuing commands with the keyboard does seem to work. Is this a known bug?
I'm guessing you have a STEAM version of the game. See the STEAM Version Mod Problems Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=303955).

@ERLoft: Bring this to glider1's attention in the RevolutionDCM thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=262937).

Actually, I'm not using a Steam version, and their solution of trying a hacked exe didn't work either. I even tried the RevolutionDCM mod and had the exact same problem. I've been playing with the standard Revolution mod for a while now, though.

Another cause I've overlooked could very well be custom assets. Do you have anything in your custom assets? If so move them to their own folder in the mods folder of BtS and make your custom changes their own proper mod, custom assets frequently crash or ruin mods. If your custom assets is clear (nothing in there), then We need to try to isolate the problem. We know it's caused by RevDCM too, but not Revolutions itself, have you tried the BUG mod itself? If it's a problem intrinsic to BUG, it might be easier to isolate. Also I'd be interested to know if WolfRevolution1.1.2 (http://files.filefront.com/WolfRevolution1+1+2exe/;12293171;/fileinfo.html) works for you. If it is BUG related, it should, as the change from BUG 3.0 to 3.5 is the main upgrade from WolfRev1.1.2 to 1.2.2
Thanks for bringing this to my attention and helping out tracking down the problems. Since on my comp it works fine, having people highlight and help me track down problems I can't produce is invaluable.

Everytime I have tried to enter a game with this mod loaded, during initializing it freezes and crashes on me. I have only tried the 1st map script wich is the earth generator that is unique to this mod. I don't know if it works on other map scripts, but the point is, it doesn't work like it's supposed to. I am using 3.17. My custom assets folder is also cleaned out.

I honestly can't find an Earth map script on Play Now, or Custom game, I can find an Earth2. But if the game crashes on initialization, how are you even getting to an option screen to select a map type?

Another cause I've overlooked could very well be custom assets. Do you have anything in your custom assets? If so move them to their own folder in the mods folder of BtS and make your custom changes their own proper mod, custom assets frequently crash or ruin mods. If your custom assets is clear (nothing in there), then We need to try to isolate the problem. We know it's caused by RevDCM too, but not Revolutions itself, have you tried the BUG mod itself? If it's a problem intrinsic to BUG, it might be easier to isolate. Also I'd be interested to know if WolfRevolution1.1.2 (http://files.filefront.com/WolfRevolution1+1+2exe/;12293171;/fileinfo.html) works for you. If it is BUG related, it should, as the change from BUG 3.0 to 3.5 is the main upgrade from WolfRev1.1.2 to 1.2.2
Thanks for bringing this to my attention and helping out tracking down the problems. Since on my comp it works fine, having people highlight and help me track down problems I can't produce is invaluable.

I've made a few small tweaks to the XML files, but that's about it. All really minor stuff, like changing the sizes of things and altering the properties of some terrain. I definitely didn't touch anything that's part of the UI, though. I guess that's likely the problem; I'll probably have to go with a reinstall because I'm not sure if I could back it all out.

Update: I installed 1.1.2 and it indeed does work! Any clue on what the updates were that I can fix, and save myself the re-install?

Not really, 1.2.2 is completely rebuilt. The RevDCM core was remade to incorporate the newer Revolutions & BetterAI versions. Also the change from BUG 3.0 to BUG 3.5 is a massive one. Anyway if your problem is caused by custom assets, I'd just recomend moveing them to their own proper mod folder. You don't need to reinstall.

I honestly can't find an Earth map script on Play Now, or Custom game, I can find an Earth2. But if the game crashes on initialization, how are you even getting to an option screen to select a map type?

I guess it's technically not called initialization then, but it's just after you finish picking your options and click "OK" and the loading screen shows up. The loading bar gets stuck (never showing any movement past a quarter way) and after about anywhere between 5-10 or so minutes of waiting/loading it just crashes the game all together.

The map script is not an actual earth map but a generator to replicate earthlike terrain and continents. It is around the very top option in the maps selection screen and upon selecting it you have somewhere between 5-10 more additional selections screens for the map type before you can finally move on to other options and then "OK".

I would give you the exact wording for each screen, but I don't have the mod anymore. After trying to get it to work a couple times and seeing that it wouldn't, I deleted the rather large and beefy mod folder off of my hard drive.

I guess it's technically not called initialization then, but it's just after you finish picking your options and click "OK" and the loading screen shows up. The loading bar gets stuck (never showing any movement past a quarter way) and after about anywhere between 5-10 or so minutes of waiting/loading it just crashes the game all together.

The map script is not an actual earth map but a generator to replicate earthlike terrain and continents. It is around the very top option in the maps selection screen and upon selecting it you have somewhere between 5-10 more additional selections screens for the map type before you can finally move on to other options and then "OK".

I would give you the exact wording for each screen, but I don't have the mod anymore. After trying to get it to work a couple times and seeing that it wouldn't, I deleted the rather large and beefy mod folder off of my hard drive.

Sounds like you don't have enough RAM(Especially if you're using PerfectWorld or something similar). Tone down your graphics and/or use a fast-loading mapscript like Continents or Pangeia.

Sounds like you don't have enough RAM(Especially if you're using PerfectWorld or something similar). Tone down your graphics and/or use a fast-loading mapscript like Continents or Pangeia.

I have 2 Gigs of RAM. My system is only about a year old. The Wolfshanze Mod loads up just fine and works great on my system.

Thank you for identifying the map script I was thinking of. :) Perfect World is what I trying to remember and it definately sounds extremely interesting... something that's right up my alley.

Do I actually need more than 2 Gigs of Ram to play this mod?

Do I actually need more than 2 Gigs of Ram to play this mod?

Not unless you're playing on huge worlds. I have only 2 gigs (and my computer is 8 yrs old...I think I saw a vacuum tube in there once ;)) and I've played it without any loading or other memory-type problems. I always play on small maps though too.

Ah, I see. I only play huge maps. I find it to be more epic. Games last longer which is not nescessarily a plus, but it is more challenging and more interactive. To me it's more fun and realistic to deal with more civs and explore land. :)

was wondering since there is no CIV4GameSpeedInfo in the mod how do i adjust the game speed for the mod, can i copy in the default one from bts and mod it and have it work or not.

That should work fine.

Ah, I see. I only play huge maps. I find it to be more epic. Games last longer which is not nescessarily a plus, but it is more challenging and more interactive. To me it's more fun and realistic to deal with more civs and explore land. :)

I used to play huge maps all the time with only 1 gig of RAM, so 2 should be plenty (although I usually play large, since I find huge maps to involve too much micromanagement).

How long did you give the PerfectWorld script to generate? Your system may have seemed like it was locked up, but sometimes the script can actually take 15+ minutes to generate a huge map. Your best bet is to kick it off and go do the dishes or take a shower.

Actually the 2nd or 3d time I attempted to load it, that's exactly what I did. I tried to enter the game and while it was loading I threw some clothes in the laundry and then watch a TV show for 30 minutes. I came back and there was an Error window pane that had appeared. I don't remember exactly what it said, though.

Actually the 2nd or 3d time I attempted to load it, that's exactly what I did. I tried to enter the game and while it was loading I threw some clothes in the laundry and then watch a TV show for 30 minutes. I came back and there was an Error window pane that had appeared. I don't remember exactly what it said, though.

Ah, you should probably report the bug in the thread for that map script then, it's not actually a part of this mod:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239982

Well I can't find a "Perfect World" map script. Tried the planet generator script (the first option), and it worked fine. So I don't know.

Well I can't find a "Perfect World" map script. Tried the planet generator script (the first option), and it worked fine. So I don't know.

Perfect World is actually an amazing script, if you can stand the generation time. It creates a climate model, and bases the terrain on that, so it's not purely banded by latitude, like most scripts. I've never had a problem with it, but I've heard it has compatibility issues with some mods that mess with the random number generator. I haven't seen that problem with this mod though.

Really though, if you haven't tried it, download it from the link I posted above, right away. I consider any game played without it to be sub-par (and I wrote the Hemispheres script for Firaxis, so that's not said lightly).

I agree. Once I started using the PerfectWorld script I couldn't go back to anything else. My only gripes are that sometimes it will generate a continent in the extreme north or south, when I think it would be better if it could shift the landmasses up or down to a more moderate zone, and occasionally some of the starting locations are pretty bad.

EDIT: I think the compatibility issues with the script only occur if you have a mapscript called "random" in your mapscript folder.

The thing I don't like about Perfect World is how it will sometimes generate clumps of Tundra in the middle of the Equator(if it is between two mountain ranges) right next to a large expanse of Desert. Clashes horribly.

Phungus, for some reason, I can't run your wonderful mod on my Steam-purchased copy of Civ complete (I lost my CDs). I tried loading it up through the client but I couldn't get any UI going.

What do I do?

Phungus, for some reason, I can't run your wonderful mod on my Steam-purchased copy of Civ complete (I lost my CDs). I tried loading it up through the client but I couldn't get any UI going.

What do I do?
Read the second post, under Known Bugs. Other then that, the rules of this site specifically forbidden discussing the matter further (and for good legal reason--If I ran the site I'd have the same rule).

Umm... crap. Well, I wasted $50

I suppose this will be chalked up to lesson learned. I will be fixing this problem on my end, sigh.

Thanks for the quick response, Phungus

edit: The problem has been resolved.

was wondering since there is no CIV4GameSpeedInfo in the mod how do i adjust the game speed for the mod, can i copy in the default one from bts and mod it and have it work or not.

That should work fine.

i tried just copying and pasteing the file over then making my changes but i got errors on the game (and mod) loading up is there something else i have to change too.

What's the file, and what changes are you making? I'll see if I can get it to work on my end and then get back to you. If the mod doesn't have the file in it, it is using the default BtS (or Warlords, CIV vanilla depending) file, so copying and pasting the original to the mod should work.

What's the file, and what changes are you making? I'll see if I can get it to work on my end and then get back to you. If the mod doesn't have the file in it, it is using the default BtS (or Warlords, CIV vanilla depending) file, so copying and pasting the original to the mod should work.
its just the default bts CIV4GameSpeedInfo file so i can modify the amount of turns and production and reaserch percents and such but when i copyed over the default CIV4GameSpeedInfo file over made my changes and tried to run the game it refused to load the file and errored out.

Well, I tried the default file, and it worked. Try that first, see if it loads and you can start a new game. If that works, need to check out the changes you made in the XML.

Well, I tried the default file, and it worked. Try that first, see if it loads and you can start a new game. If that works, need to check out the changes you made in the XML.

wierd i must have screwed something up when i changed thangs in the file to make it error. I tried again and it loaded up just fine this time thanks for the help :D

I got your MOD running on my main computer but, I am still unable to see the interface when running your mod on my laptop. I uninstalled all civilization games and then reinstalled them. Then I patched them to 3.17. Next I checked to my sure that my directx and video card drivers were up to date. Finally, I installed your mod. I did not install anything else. However, I was unable to see the interface.
However, when I installed version 1.1.2 it worked. So, I pretty sure it is a problem with BUG 3.5, but I have no idea how to fix it. Any ideas?

There are two main causes of this. Both are covered under the Known Bugs section in the second post. 1st, if you have anything in your custom assets, specifically the BUG mod, this can cause you to loose your interface. Secondly, if your version of CIV is STEAM the .exe is borked for the STEAM versions. See the second post in this thread under Known Bugs to see how to troubleshoot either.

Sorry, I forgot to say I have nothing in my custom assets and my version of CIV is not STEAM.

Renaming the folder can also cause this; it is important the folder be named WolfRevolution. Those are the only known causes for loosing the interface. Sorry I can't help you out more, hopefully the next version of RevDCM (which will update the BUG mod component) will fix it for you, until then just stick with 1.1.2 if it works, 1.2.2 is only an update the interface (more BUG components) and Better AI versions, it plays virtually the same. Alternatively you could try the Destiny Mod or the Conglomarate mod, which use WolfRev as the base, and see if either of those work.

I just built a brand new machine yesterday, and did a fresh CIV-Warlords-BTS install, patched to 3.17, and installed this mod. I'm still getting the no interface bug. It's not steam, I haven't touched or renamed anything, and I haven't modded a single asset.

Have you considered rolling back the BUG version for the mod? I'd like to have the latest versions of everything else, rather than being stuck playing your old version.

To be honest, it would be too much work to rollback the BUG implementation. Also v 1.1.2 is really only 1 version behind in Better AI, and 3.0 instead of 3.5 version of BUG. Just play 1.1.2 if 1.2.2 doesn't work, it is not drastically different, they are for all intents and purposes the same mod.

WolfRevolution 1.1.2 (http://files.filefront.com/WolfRevolution1+1+2exe/;12293171;/fileinfo.html)

I got one, Phungus. Every time the computer offers me something, I can't accept it. The screen comes up with what they want to give me but the middle bit is missing. I have no idea how to confirm it, just to escape out. Other then a memory allocation error once when it was making a shuffle world, I haven't had any other problems with this fine mod (once I "updated" of course)

Since you seem the most well connected among so many mods and I was using your wolfrevolution when I noticed this, I thought I would post it here.

Simple scenario: I built a privateer and used it to kill a viking long boat. Upon winning the battle, a great general was instantly born in Viking lands. Seems the values for privateers might be reversed for great general experience.

(side note: Everything was set to default in terms of the combat mod on/off screen. huge earth 2 map, all the wolfrevolution game options (minor civ, etc) were checked, and single player game so simultaneous turns can't be the cause of this occurence.)

Edit: Haven't been able to reproduce this. I think slowdowns just caused the message of the great general to be greatly delayed in being displayed.

Does anyone else get huge slowdown between turns in this mod?

I am currently in a game as Japan and am up to the late 1700s. It's a "Large" map with 21 civs currently in the game. It currently takes around 1min 45sec between turns.

This is after I had to abandon my previous game (my first WolfRevolution game) as Rome, which was also a Large map but had 35 (possibly more) civs in 1576AD and took over four minutes between turns. That's *not* counting enemy moves.

In comparison, my previous game using just RevolutionDCM took just 38 seconds between turns - at 2040AD on a "Huge" map! It was also noticeably 'more responsive' during the time between turns - in WolfRevolution the game seems to completely freeze for a while, all animations freeze, whereas in RevolutionDCM they play normally while the game is churning away.

I noticed in my Japan game that the time between turns was fairly normal, but one turn it became suddenly much longer. As far as I could tell there was no significant occurance in the game to cause this. So I went back to an autosave several turns earlier, and the game was fine again, but after re-playing a few turns it again jumped to a longer time.

I know performance will increase if I play smaller games but I do not want to do that, I'd rather just go back to RevolutionDCM if I can't find a solution, which is a shame as I like the Wolfshanze additions, particularly the art, but can't bear the length between turns. I play Marathon games and with 700+ turns left in my Japan game, that means spending 15+ hours of my life doing nothing more than sitting staring at the game waiting for it to load between turns!

My PC is a Q6600 with 2gb RAM and a 8800gtx.

Thanks for your time, and other than my technical issues its a great mod :goodjob:

I feel your pain, man. I just crap-can the graphical settings and make sure I have my legos by my side. Try Rise of Mankind 2 on Snail and Massive if you want hefty wait times.

Still no idea how to fix the computer giving me something and me not being able to take it.

Yeah 2GB just isn't enough for large maps, given the new models from the Wolfshanze mod. I'm thinking about going through and removing all the 2000+ poly models for the next version. Anyone know how to do this? Better yet, anyone with the ability, would it be possible to get a list of the models with 2000+ polys? If I remove these the game should run alot smoother for lower end systems, but it wol't look as pretty.

I wouldn't mind Civ 1 graphics as long as the mechanics were still ace. Gameplay matters at the end of the day, dig?

I see, so would another 2gb lead to significant improvement? I've been meaning to get some more for a while.

I see, so would another 2gb lead to significant improvement? I've been meaning to get some more for a while.
Definately would help. Even the most robust systems chug playing huge maps with the Wolfshanze units in the late game though, but large seems to work fine.

On a related note, anyone with the ability care to make a list of units that Wolf introduced with over 2000 polys? Replacing them with stock units should help alot, wol't look as pretty, but I'm inclined to go for function over form myself. Anyone know how to find out the # of polys in a model?

I actually love the unique artstyles and it'd be a shame to go back to standard art, maybe make it optional? Or convince someone to reduce the poly count :D
2000 polys seems massive overkill for such little men :p

Couldn't you go into the wolfshanze files and say something like unit x gets x image?

I was all excited to download my first mod. I opened civ, went advance, and called it up. The screen kept 'clicking' and then this came up.
What is it?
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z311/SHARPCLAW117/Glitch.jpg

Soon-to-be-fan, Zach

Anyone else still getting diplo hangups? I get a demand for tribute or something and clicking on either option does nothing. I can't even escape out. I'm seriously considering reverting back to the prior version.

I was all excited to download my first mod. I opened civ, went advance, and called it up. The screen kept 'clicking' and then this came up.
What is it?
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z311/SHARPCLAW117/Glitch.jpg

Soon-to-be-fan, Zach
I have no idea what that could be... Never seen it before :dunno: You could try asking in the main mod forums... Also try downloading the straight Wolfshanze mod, see if you still get this, maybe your video card is having an issue with the higher definition units in the Wolfshanze mod.

Anyone else still getting diplo hangups? I get a demand for tribute or something and clicking on either option does nothing. I can't even escape out. I'm seriously considering reverting back to the prior version.
I've been unable to replicate this. Any chance you have a save with this occuring? If it happens for me, I should be able to get some info from the errors log, and post what it says in the BUG forum, from there I could hopefully isolate and fix the bug.

Phungus, try this one. Shaka should pop up next turn demanding polytheism; I can choose an option but nothing happens.

Thanks pswnio, At this point glider just announced the next version of RevDCM should be out in the next week or so... So even if I could replicate this error (doubtful, it seems to be machine specific), it probably isn't worth it to fix it, since a new version will be out shortly.

In the meantime:
...I think if you delete autolog.ini it should be fixed. Give it a go! You will find it at:

/MODS/WolfRevolution/Autolog.ini

Make sure the game isn't running first. Delete the autolog and restart. This should regenerate a new autolog.ini and the problem might then be fixed....
If you are getting this diplo bug, let me know if this works or not.

Autolog.ini solution in testing.

So far so good. Thanks for keeping on it.

I just want to ask, when I start a game I get a list of thigs that are on and off.
StartAsMinors can be enabled and disabled from the Custom Game meny.
But I can't get the other options like Active Defense and Batle Effects to be turned on.
How do I do it?

Yeah, the DCM and IDW options aren't in the custom game start up. To get at those, open up the GlobalDefinesAlt.xml file found in the main XML folder of the mod with notepad. You'll see a list of options with a 1 or a 0, to toggle off an option switch it to 0, to toggle one on switch it to 1, then save the file.

Yeah, the DCM and IDW options aren't in the custom game start up. To get at those, open up the GlobalDefinesAlt.xml file found in the main XML folder of the mod with notepad. You'll see a list of options with a 1 or a 0, to toggle off an option switch it to 0, to toggle one on switch it to 1, then save the file.

Thanks, but would it be possible to add them as buttons for the next version?

Edit: active city resistance still isent on, and I have set it to 1.

<DefineName>DCM_ACTIVE_DEFENSE</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>1</iDefineIntVal>

FYI, if you want the ultimate war experience from Wolf Revolution, these are the settings you want:

*Huge map
*Marathon speed
*Raging barbarians
*Aggressive AI
*Start as minor civs ON
*Barbarian civ ON
*Revolution ON
*Tech diffusion ON
*Monarch difficulty or above

Be prepared for the monarch difficulty or above...the AI WILL archer-rush you from the get-go, so you better tech archery ASAP, or pray that you have copper in the BFC of your capital.

With these settings, the PRO trait really shines. I'm playing a game as Ho Chi Mihn of Vietnam (PHI/PRO), and having protective archers was probably the only way I was able to hook up my copper in the first place. Without them, I would have been choked to death by:
*Raging barbs (spears and axes before I could get the copper hooked up, which meant lots of work for my CGI/DI/shock archers)
*Archer/battering ram stack rush from Washington
*Archer rush from Nappy III

At this point I get copper hooked up, finally. That's not the end of my troubles, by any means, though...afterwards, I get...

*Axe/chariot/capped ram rushed from Zara

I defend from within my 2nd city, for which I thankfully had chopped a quick wall. I funnel more defenders into the city as Zara's rams take down the city defense. He finally suicides his stack on my fortified troops. I lose a few. He loses all of his. Shortly thereafter, I get...

*Spawnrushed by Saladin
*Another archer rush from Nappy III
*Another axe/chariot rush from Zara
*Another axe/chariot rush from Zara
*Spawnrushed by Shaka
*Another spawnrush by Saladin...how, I'm not sure. Somehow Saladin got a bunch of free troops first when he organized his barb city into the Arabian Tribe, and then when he organized them into the Arabian city state of Mecca. I guess that's how it works. Barb civs get two free endowments of troops?
*Another small axe/chariot/archer rush from Shaka

All of this before 500 A.D. I already have 3 great generals. We're still in the classical era. Everyone is beating on everyone else so hard (Zara vs. Washington and Nappy III currently on my continent), the global tech rate is atrocious. Pure carnage. Great Generals getting born, dying in combat left and right. It's awesome. Another factor: rebellions. One of my cities that I conquered from barbs is looking to revolt any day now. Better suit up some more troops.... ;)

Hehe, the early game as start as minors with Monarch or above is very hard. With the next version I think I'm going to remove the free archery tech for the AI at Monarch, and possibly emperor, as I need to play a Monarch or Emperor game difficutly to really enjoy it, but the early rush is just too hard to deal with for me, I can't even get started (But Prince is just too much of a cakewalk). The one saving grace is that the AI views all minor cities as barb cities (that's how start as minors works, it defines the units and cities of minor tribes as barbarian--Which under Start as Minors is everyone that hasn't researched writing), so at least it doesn't prioritize or dogpile you. But it just seems too hard a jump from Prince to monarch with archery for the AI when Start as Minor tribes is on.

Thanks for sharing your experience with the mod. I'd love to see someone post a walkthrough or Succession game in the Stories and tales forum, so if someone is interested in showing how the game works with WolfRevolution, and how you play with Revolutions and such, please do share your game in the S&T forum.

@PPQ Purple, that's how you turn it on. Active resistance might have use the XML to set a cap for spawned resistance defenders, so try setting it to 5 or something, that might work (or it might crash the game, lol). I really don't like active resistance the few times I played with it on, so haven't tried messing with it since RevDCM 0.95 I think, so it's possible glider just removed it from the game, in which case that component just wol't work.
Edit: Also another possibility is that the opening window showing which components are toggled isn't detecting that Active Resistance is on, so it might be working, but still showing up red on start up.

@PPQ Purple, that's how you turn it on. Active resistance might have use the XML to set a cap for spawned resistance defenders, so try setting it to 5 or something, that might work (or it might crash the game, lol). I really don't like active resistance the few times I played with it on, so haven't tried messing with it since RevDCM 0.95 I think, so it's possible glider just removed it from the game, in which case that component just wol't work.

I newer tried any of the options actualy. This is my first time runing anything like this. I usualy stuck to FFH. So I am experimenting. Now that I know how it works, it sounds less interesting. I think I will skip that option.

Just downloaded it and it looks great so far. Thank you SO MUCH for the installer and shortcut - I wish everyone would use this for their mods (computer savvy folks always seem to forget those of us whom are dunces). :goodjob:

Sure, I'd love to post a walkthrough of my WolfRev game so far. I've had some real fun moments warring against Zara Yacob and, after taking a few of his cities and killing off a bunch of his units (probably causing oodles of war weariness in his empire, since I have the SoZ), getting a civil war to erupt in his empire and for his frontline cities to go into revolt and be surrounded by insurgent Carthaginian rebel forces just as I'm pulling up with my stack from the other side...hehehehe.

The walkthrough would be good too, since I'm also kind of stuck at a pivotal point in the medieval era where I might need some advice for getting my economy back on track.

Yeah, monarch sure is hellish with "start as minor civs" on, but I need to play monarch so that the AIs don't get just totally beat-up by the raging barbarians that I also like...and I don't like turning raging barbarians off because that seems to make new barbarian civ spawns less frequent, and I like having new civs spawn early so that they are competitive with the original civs.

Nice mod-mod. I've been playing it with Cephalo's PerfectWorld2 map script with more than recommended AI's and so it's quite challenging to expand with the revolution in play. Influence-driven war makes it fun to try to expand though. :goodjob:

Quick question. Does the Wolfshanze Purifier (v1.2.1) work with the current (v1.2.2) WolfRevolution properly? The download page for the purifer says it's for 1.2.1, so wanted to ask before I randomly zapped things.

I believe so, at least no one has said otherwise, and I can't see why it wouldn't. WolfRev 1.3.0 will be out sometime tomarrow as well. Just having a couple miner loose ends I need to tie up. I'm nearly certain I wol't be releasing a purifier for it though, but it'll have Leonardo's Workshop!

"*Tech diffusion ON" But WHYYY???

"WolfRev 1.3.0 will be out sometime tomarrow as well." HOOORAY!!!

Oooohh...haven't seen Leonardo's Workshop since Civ3.

Oooohh...haven't seen Leonardo's Workshop since Civ3.

What'll it do now?

This is a build I just uploaded. I'm making another with an uninstaller for the official release, It needs to finish compiling the install script, then I need to test it and upload it, so will be a few hours. That release will be the same though as this:

WolfRevolution v 1.3.0 (http://files.filefront.com/WolfRevolution1+3+0exe/;13421157;/fileinfo.html)
Please delete your old version of WolfRev before installing (that's why the official version will include the unistaller). Anyway, please test this, it'll be 4 or 5 hours before I get the official one up, so let me know if you find any bugs in this (as it is the same, the official version just has a different install script).

WolfRev 1.3.x is not prior version save game compatible.

Known Bugs:
WolfRevolution is actually entirely stable.
-Unfortunately the .exe for Steam users is borked, and causes problems (A loss of the User Interface) with this (as well as other) mods. There is a work around, but legally it's grey, so I can't tell you specifically how to solve this. See the STEAM Version Mod Problem Thread.
-With version 1.2.2, some users experience a bug in diplomacy where clicking on an option to a demand does not advance the game, it just sticks. This seems to be machine specific, as most users don't experience it (and can't reproduce it, even with a save where this occurs), also this bug seems to pop up in all the latest RevDCM merges. The creator of RevDCM has suggested this fix, if you experience this bug:

now here's a problem for you , i've got this no visable interface problem though by randomly clicking my mouse it activates the mod (usually enabling me to click bottom left of the screen to exit the game rather than being forced into rebooting

i play off a disc , not via steam

i've cleared out my custom assetts to no avail

i get the same problem when i load the WoC mod

i loaded the old version and the same problem persists

i was able to play this mod on my old crappy laptop, but have recently got a new one with like 3GB of RAM and a decent graphics card so i could play all these mods without em crashing

any ideas?

oh yeah , i use the blue marble graphics pack , but i've uninstalled it and tried again and it made no differance

oh , and one other diff i've noticed from other musings from other forums is i've got no interface both in game , and on the title page (i managed to get in game by guessing what invisable buttons i was pressing )

Is it a Nvidia Graphics card or a ATI graphics card?

it's an ATI

If you are losing interface, delete Autolog.ini and see if that makes any difference.

Hey Esemjay how was basic training? Glad too see you back.

thanks , i've seen that before but i'll try it

"*Tech diffusion ON" But WHYYY???

It keeps rebellious splinter-civs and civ-spawns more competitive. = more serious warfare. Keeps it so that you can't just steamroll those spawn-civs and splinter civs.

might sound really dumb , but there isn't a auto ini in the folder , nor in the folder of the other mod it's messing up

Try that 1.3.0 build I posted a few posts back, see if you still get that issue. I'd like to know if this version solves that anyway.

Glad to see no one has noticed any bugs in the latest build. I haven't uploaded a new build because the uninstaller doesn't seem to delete files from the old versions of WolfRev, so I'm going to write and compile a cleaning uninstall old version NSIS installer right now. It will take a minute because I've got to download the old versions, and then write the script and test it and what not. Should be a couple hours yet. Though the 1.3.0 build works fine if you know enough about computers to just delete the old version of WolfRev and then install it.

Try that 1.3.0 build I posted a few posts back, see if you still get that issue. I'd like to know if this version solves that anyway.

Glad to see no one has noticed any bugs in the latest build. I haven't uploaded a new build because the uninstaller doesn't seem to delete files from the old versions of WolfRev, so I'm going to write and compile a cleaning uninstall old version NSIS installer right now. It will take a minute because I've got to download the old versions, and then write the script and test it and what not. Should be a couple hours yet. Though the 1.3.0 build works fine if you know enough about computers to just delete the old version of WolfRev and then install it.

nice timing , i was 78% the way through downloading 1.2.2 again befor noticing you'd done a newer version , excuse my sarcasm before you go all DVS on me , it's just my way

Hey Esemjay how was basic training? Glad too see you back.

Everything you would think that Boot Camp would be :P

It's good to be back. I don't have the same amount of free time I used to, so I can't really work on things like I used to be able to- however, I do like to poke around every once in a while and see what's going on in the forums :)

I spend most of my Civ4 time checking out updates on the WolfRevolution and World 2009 mods.

ok , no joy on those suggestions , 1.3 and the patch gimme the same no interface

it's extra dissapointing because i know you guys out there are probably going to use Wolf and WoC as the bones for your much eagerly anticipated World 2009 mod , and i know by loosing these mods i've got aztecs on deitys chance of ever playing it with a wallpaper of a screen looking back at me

Basic wasn't that bad in my oppinion. I mean, it was alot less harsh then I thought it would be. Though I was in a strange company, and even stranger platoon. In my platoon there were only 3 of us under 20, and the average age was 27. Also our Drill Seargents were, well, just funny, 2 of them were at least. They never treated us poorly, I mean they were dicks at time, but you gotta expect that, and was all part of process.

AIT though was just irritating. There the Drills just acted like dicks, to be dicks, and they weren't very witty either.

ok , no joy on those suggestions , 1.3 and the patch gimme the same no interface

it's extra dissapointing because i know you guys out there are probably going to use Wolf and WoC as the bones for your much eagerly anticipated World 2009 mod , and i know by loosing these mods i've got aztecs on deitys chance of ever playing it with a wallpaper of a screen looking back at me
That sucks it doesn't work for you, means there will be others with the same problem. Unfortunately it's not solvable from my end, as it is obviously machine specific. Just to ask though, have you tried the troublshooting method described in the STEAM version mod thread? It stands a good chance of working.
Edit: Oh, and make sure your video card drivers are up to date.

Edit: As for updating. The 1.3.0 build up a few posts back is the same thing that will be the official 1.3.0 release. I'm just mucking around with the installer now. I'm pretty sure I've got it figured out (so it'll remove previous versions of WolfRev and then install), just needs to finish compiling and then I'll upload it, so a few hours. But if you know how to delete the old WolfRevolution folder (all you do is browse till you find it, it's in ...\Beyond The Sword\Mods\) and you want the new version now, just use that.

Basic wasn't that bad in my oppinion. I mean, it was alot less harsh then I thought it would be. Though I was in a strange company, and even stranger platoon. In my platoon there were only 3 of us under 20, and the average age was 27. Also our Drill Seargents were, well, just funny, 2 of them were at least. They never treated us poorly, I mean they were dicks at time, but you gotta expect that, and was all part of process.

AIT though was just irritating. There the Drills just acted like dicks, to be dicks, and they weren't very witty either.

USArmy? I'm USAF. Basic really wasn't bad, so much as stressful. It was far less stressful than I expected; but harsher than most would think. I was hoping it would be more like the USMC boot camp. We didn't focus as much on physical as I had wished, but our BMT was focused more on mind-games. The first three days I was there, we were deprived of sleep and food and given conflicting directives from two different TI's.

The other trainees were from 18-27 in my flight, but the average would've been like 21. Our TI's were all pretty much dicks to be dicks- and it was intimidating while we were there but now looking back on it, they were actually really funny. It's sort of rare to get a Master TI, but I was lucky enough to get two.

Technical Training was suck though. The course was slow and redundant and the MTL's (Not TI's) were dicks to be dicks, and while we had it easier than the Army did in TechSchool, the MTL's are horribly inconsistent in punishment between different Airmen. Depending on who you are, you could be (essentially) confined to your room (Checked every 30min, and woken while you are sleeping) for 30 days- or you could be verbally reprimanded. :\

WolfRev 1.3.x is not prior version save game compatible.

Downloaded and played this one as the Khmer to 1000AD. Didn't see any bugs other than when a revolt occured (I was in representation) it listed the cities except "txt_key_rev_and" showed up in the quest box.

Except I didn't uninstall the last version. Not sure if the installer did either. :blush:

Yeah, Glider just noted that text bug in the RevDCM thread. It's very minor, it should just say 'AND' but for some reason the script isn't pulling right. It's not enough to delay the next release, as it makes no change to gameplay, and, it only flubs one word AND, so it should still be obvious what it's saying.

Thanks for bringing it up though. Squashing bugs, even minor aesthetic ones is a top priority of course. As far as is known WolfRev 1.3.1 will have no other bugs (other then Revolutions not supporting Multiplayer as usual). Even the custom assets issue is fixed now, you can now have whatever you want in Custom Assets, the mod will just ignore them now.

Updated to WolfRevolution 1.3.1 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11068l)

Notes:
Updated to WolfRevolution 1.3.1 March 7, 2009
*WolfRevolution 1.3.x is not 1.2.x or lower save game compatible, finish your old game before updating to 1.3.1
*Added Uninstaller. I didn't notice any problems by simply over installing old versions, but I was worried about old files conflicting. So if you have a previous version of WolfRev please install twice (this will allow the uninstaller to purge old files), wait for the uninstaller to finish before continuing with the installation (you can ignore the uninstall box, click next on the install pop up then go back and uninstall which will just remove the mod, so uninstall first)
-Updated RevDCM component to 1.00, this includes BUG (to 3.6) and Better AI (to 0.6h)
-Removed Arty tech req from Assembly line, never liked that being there, and since Wolf has disapeared, that had to go. This caused a few units to have their prereq techs altered. Very little effect on the Units will be noticed by this change, it just makes factories and such more in line with the rest of the flow of the game
-To make Start As Minors playable for people at or near my skill level (prince is just a cakewalk, and in Default BtS I play on emperor, but the archer rush was too hard to survive with start as minors int his mod), removed Archery tech from Monarch and Emperor level AIs. I will probably in the future add in a new difficutly level to smooth out the transition from Emperor to Immortal with the next release because of this. Feedback here would be welcome.
-Locked Custom Assets, you can now do whatever you want with custom assets, install BUG there make your own modding files whatever, they will no longer conflict with WolfRev


Known Bugs:
WolfRevolution is actually entirely stable.
-Unfortunately the .exe for Steam users is borked, and causes problems (A loss of the User Interface) with this (as well as other) mods. There is a work around, but legally it's grey, so I can't tell you specifically how to solve this. See the STEAM Version Mod Problem Thread. *This bug may be fixed with 1.3.1
-On Huge maps with Revolutions and Barbarian Civs enabled the scoreboard can get a little messy looking.
-The Revolution mod component is not considered to be Multiplayer supported (Though it will work), for instance other human players can see your revolution displays and pop ups, and OSS errors will occur more often then in default BTS. Thus it is recommended you leave the specific Revolutions option off when starting up a multi game (Though if you don't mind the issues you can play with it on). All other mod components should work just as well as unmodded BTS in multiplayer.
-There is a known visual bug from a revolution pop up where what should be 'AND' doesn't pull from the XML text right and displays as REV_DEFS_TEXT_AND or some such thing. It's minor, just assume it says AND. This will be fixed eventually, but I didn't want to delay the release of 1.3.x for something so trivial.
-Not a bug, but you can access a cheatmod like option by pressing ctrl + p. Just consider doing so the same thing as opening worldbuilder.


Requests:

I really enjoy reading the Stories and Tales section. Hell I've probably spent as much time watching the AI and testing then playing (but that's cause modding and seeing it's effects is fun for me). It would be great if someone posted a game of WolfRev in either a succession game (probably the most entertaining) or the main Stories and tales forum. :deal:

This Mod needs maps and scenarios. If you are a mapmaker/scenario maker, please take some time to make some maps and/or scenarios for this mod. I'll include them in all future uploads. I don't even think a Europe of Earth map exists for WolfRev :(


As always I am interested in feedback, so feel free to post your thoughts on WolfRev, how it can be improved, your experiences with it, etc.

All,

I am nearing the end of my current game so am working with 1.2.2 version, I have some game losing/winning questions if you don't mind:

since when was it possible to destroy COMPLETED spaceship parts
How can I do it as I need to knock Zara back as he is doing it to me
What is a super spy
if you have the spy building's in a city does any additional spy's have an effect then for catching others
how best do I keep Zara spy's out of my cities


Just to let you know the situation, I have been building my space ship for near on 45-50 turns, and everytime I am almost ready to launch ZARA blows something up so I start again on that item (10 engines, 5 docking, 4 cockpits and 2 statis pods)

He is nearing a completed ship which i cannot really stop at the minute, so i am also planning to try to take his capital if it comes to it, but this will be a last resort as ZARA is a completed monster with 4 vassels and I have a power rating of .3 on him, which considering the fact I have stealth bombers, s destroyers, modern armours etc etc lets you know what I am up against.

One last thing when he blows up a space ship part sometimes it says a certain city although the part in question is in a different city. ( i hope it's a bug so I can claim a default victory)

I am playing on Monarch level although I don't think that will effect the above

Hey Guys,

I noticed that WolfRevolution has both RangedBombardment, ArcherBarrage and other components. They are not activated when i play. How can i fix that??

Thanks :=)

this is by far the best mod-pack for civ4 BTS

keep this alive please :D

Hey Guys,

I noticed that WolfRevolution has both RangedBombardment, ArcherBarrage and other components. They are not activated when i play. How can i fix that??

Thanks :=)


when ingame, press ctrl+alt+o and you will see a window where you can change many options, also ranged bomb, barrage etc.

regards

when ingame, press ctrl+alt+o and you will see a window where you can change many options, also ranged bomb, barrage etc.

regards

Hey,

Thanks for the help,

I still cant get to work though. Sure this is the right way?

Thanks

This looks like a great mod and I'm very eager to try it but am I the only one who is having problems with filefront? :(

It keeps rebellious splinter-civs and civ-spawns more competitive. = more serious warfare. Keeps it so that you can't just steamroll those spawn-civs and splinter civs.

Well now that's a hard point to argue against.

I keep getting "bug options failed writing ini file" error in the events box. Any ideas?

This looks like a great mod and I'm very eager to try it but am I the only one who is having problems with filefront? :(

FileFront uses a pop-ups to start the download so you have your browser/security set to allow pop-ups, or to at least ask for permission to show them (a little bar shows at the top of the browser).


I believe FileFront is also anti-download managers (the programs that allow batch downloading and simultaneous downloads), so if you have one installed, read the docs on how to temporarily disable it to use your browser's native downloader.

If all else fails, try installing a competing browser (IE, Firefox, etc...) and downloading by that.

Thanks, I managed to download it on another computer, now it exits to desktop while loading the graphics. Maybe I need to update my drivers or something.

Hey,

Thanks for the help,

I still cant get to work though. Sure this is the right way?

Thanks
When you use Ctrl + alt + o and change the options in the RevolutionDCM tab, you will need to save your game, and restart it for those changes to take effect.

Thanks, I managed to download it on another computer, now it exits to desktop while loading the graphics. Maybe I need to update my drivers or something.
Yeah, make sure your drivers are up to date. Not sure what else could be causing a crash like that. Been totally stable from my end.

To address your original problem, I'm now uploading WolfRev to MegaUpload, so it'll have a download mirror for users that have a problem with filefront.

I keep getting "bug options failed writing ini file" error in the events box. Any ideas?
Hmmm, this is strange. Do you have admin privelegas on your comp? The BUG core basically pulls information from the XML and writes apropriate ini files when you first start the game... That's a really strange bug, I'll ask glider1 and the BUG people if they have heard of this before and see how to troubleshoot it.

All,

I am nearing the end of my current game so am working with 1.2.2 version, I have some game losing/winning questions if you don't mind:

since when was it possible to destroy COMPLETED spaceship parts
How can I do it as I need to knock Zara back as he is doing it to me
What is a super spy
if you have the spy building's in a city does any additional spy's have an effect then for catching others
how best do I keep Zara spy's out of my cities


Just to let you know the situation, I have been building my space ship for near on 45-50 turns, and everytime I am almost ready to launch ZARA blows something up so I start again on that item (10 engines, 5 docking, 4 cockpits and 2 statis pods)

He is nearing a completed ship which i cannot really stop at the minute, so i am also planning to try to take his capital if it comes to it, but this will be a last resort as ZARA is a completed monster with 4 vassels and I have a power rating of .3 on him, which considering the fact I have stealth bombers, s destroyers, modern armours etc etc lets you know what I am up against.

One last thing when he blows up a space ship part sometimes it says a certain city although the part in question is in a different city. ( i hope it's a bug so I can claim a default victory)

I am playing on Monarch level although I don't think that will effect the above
I don't know, I never make it that far in my games, lol. I think spys could always sabotage space ship parts, it just never used that ability before BetterAI. This feature may have been introduced with super spies though. Anyway if the AI can do it with his spys, you can do it with yours.

@pswnio I've started a thread here in the BUG forum, asking about your issue:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=313049

EmperorFool has asked when you get the notification that writing the ini files has failed, and any more specifics on the error message would be useful.

What must I do to get this work with blue marble?

Well, probably the same way you merge Blue marble with BUG would work. I don't know though. I'm kind of busy with other modding projects, so unfortunately I don't have the time to look into that at the moment.

What must I do to get this work with blue marble?

This thread might be helpful if you ignore the irrelevant references: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=299458

I don't know though. If you figure something out, let us know plz.

Seconded. Blue Marble is easier on my eye. I love the streamlined-ness of the new version.

Performance question: I've got a quad core and 3 gigs of ram as well as an 8500 and my game's running slow on Standard Marathon. Other then crap-canning the graphics in the options, is there some other thing I can tinker with so the turns don't take a minute to process?

Hey guys,

I have installed the WolfRevolution mod, and i see no option of bombardment ind the Ctrl+Alt+O option.

Is this the wrong install or what could be the problem?

Thanks for all you help.

Søiberg from Denmark!

I downloaded the latest version, but got an instant CTD when selecting the USA on Rhye's clean bigger europe map...:(

I downloaded the latest version, but got an instant CTD when selecting the USA on Rhye's clean bigger europe map...:(

Opened the map with notepad and added the missing teamIDs till teamID=49 (BeginTeam/EndTeam). Same at BeginPlayer/EndPlayer). There were only teamIDs until teamID=33.

Did you try this?

Cheers

I downloaded the latest version, but got an instant CTD when selecting the USA on Rhye's clean bigger europe map...:(
WolfRev is built from RevolutionDCM which is 50 civs. So unless the map is designed for 50 civs it wol't be compatable. :sad:
Hey guys,

I have installed the WolfRevolution mod, and i see no option of bombardment ind the Ctrl+Alt+O option.

Is this the wrong install or what could be the problem?

Thanks for all you help.

Søiberg from Denmark!
It's in the RevDCM option tab accessed by the Ctrl + Alt + O options. DCM arty bombard, or something like that is the option you want to toggle on. You must save and reload for the option to take effect.

Seconded. Blue Marble is easier on my eye. I love the streamlined-ness of the new version.

Performance question: I've got a quad core and 3 gigs of ram as well as an 8500 and my game's running slow on Standard Marathon. Other then crap-canning the graphics in the options, is there some other thing I can tinker with so the turns don't take a minute to process?
This is my main focus right now. Unfortunately the Wolfshanze mod incorporates a whole slew of units that are very high deff/poly. In the process of removing the most agregious models now, but this will probably take a few weeks. So the only real way to "fix" this issue is to play on smaller maps. It's just the price of having so many pretty units. Basically you need 4 gigs of ram and a good graphix card to play this mod on huge maps.

I love the Mod and I'm having alot of fun with it. Thanks. :goodjob:

Question: What's the deal with diplomacy? It doesn't exist. I'm playing against 19 Civs with the Minor Tribes option enabled, and it's like an Always War game. It's the 1500s, everyone has Writing, and noone will talk. :confused: So much for running a TRE. :) (And forget about Tech Trades). Also, with this option enabled, does that eliminate diplo introductions? I didn't get a single "Hi, Brian, I'm "so and so"...".

And as to the previous post: My machine is a bit of a beast (I don't know what it is, but it's new and eats big civ games for breakfast) and it's lagging a bit in-between turns, also. Good luck with streamlining the graphics; I'm sure that'll help.

Almost forgot: What's the deal with Privateers? I have them on Blockade assignments and I don't get that little jangle of cash sound effect, or the cash for that matter; 'sup with that?

Good to know it's on the chopping block, Phungus. I can get next war's oceans in by copying the folder but I have no idea on blue marble. At least the fonts work, lol

When Start as minors is picked the diplo intro is bipassed. You stay at war until you negotiate peace. So just talk to some of the civs that have discovered writing and see if they will make peace. They always do with me, pretty quickly. I guess it's possible though that if you let it go so long where now everyone else is at peace with each other, and all at war with you, no one will want to stop the dogpile, but I kind of doubt it.

Also the reason you aren't getting money from privateers is related. Privateers only get money from blockading ports of civs you're at peace with. (This is a BtS rule)

Couple of quick questions:

1) What do you do to get rid of those extra filters you added- is that the BUG mod? I really don't like the filters. Probably something simple, but I don't want to tinker without knowing what I"m getting rid of. Those filters keep me from clicking on units easily. I prefer the base interface.

2) Do you have plans to continue Wolfshanze's work if he doesn't come back- such as adding the APC's and such that were planned? I think he'll come back, but you never know.

1) What do you do to get rid of those extra filters you added- is that the BUG mod? I really don't like the filters. Probably something simple, but I don't want to tinker without knowing what I"m getting rid of. Those filters keep me from clicking on units easily. I prefer the base interface.
I don't really know what you mean here. There are buttons you can click on to filter units visible by type (such as land/sea, etc.), but if you simply never use one of the buttons, it the filter never is activated, so all units are activated and visible as normal.

2) Do you have plans to continue Wolfshanze's work if he doesn't come back- such as adding the APC's and such that were planned? I think he'll come back, but you never know.
Sort of. Right now the goal is to remove the more agregious high poly count units to increase performance on low end machines (it wol't look as pretty, but I'm a function over form person myself). Getting some help from GoodGame on this.

My next goal is to add in the Motorized infantry unit and a couple techs to flush at the eras further. So yes, this process will take time though.

When Start as minors is picked the diplo intro is bipassed. You stay at war until you negotiate peace. So just talk to some of the civs that have discovered writing and see if they will make peace. They always do with me, pretty quickly. I guess it's possible though that if you let it go so long where now everyone else is at peace with each other, and all at war with you, no one will want to stop the dogpile, but I kind of doubt it.

Also the reason you aren't getting money from privateers is related. Privateers only get money from blockading ports of civs you're at peace with. (This is a BtS rule)

Thanks, Phungus.

I had an isolated start in this game, and didn't make contact with anyone until my Caravels did their exploring. NOONE will talk to me this game. I click on names and get nada. I've never seen anything like it. So, now I'm going around from island to island "introducing" myself to the neighbors (Jans + Bombards + Galleons = :cool: ). Maybe eventually someone will speak to me and welcome me to the neighborhood. :lol:

Thanks, Phungus.

I had an isolated start in this game, and didn't make contact with anyone until my Caravels did their exploring. NOONE will talk to me this game. I click on names and get nada. I've never seen anything like it. So, now I'm going around from island to island "introducing" myself to the neighbors (Jans + Bombards + Galleons = :cool: ). Maybe eventually someone will speak to me and welcome me to the neighborhood. :lol:

Ahh, you have discovered the New World then. They are still minor tribes (new world civs will stay as minor tribes until an old world civ's unit steps foot on their land mass AND they have seen units from 2 seperate old world civs). When you find the rest of the old world civs you will get the normal first contact intro and stuff. BTW this New world civ thing of being minor tribes until a couple old world civs makes contact happens in all games where Barbarian civ is turned on, and there is a New World continent.

Ahh, you have discovered the New World then. They are still minor tribes (new world civs will stay as minor tribes until an old world civ's unit steps foot on their land mass AND they have seen units from 2 seperate old world civs). When you find the rest of the old world civs you will get the normal first contact intro and stuff. BTW this New world civ thing of being minor tribes until a couple old world civs makes contact happens in all games where Barbarian civ is turned on, and there is a New World continent.

Unfortunately, I don't know what counts as "New" and "Old" in this game. I used the Planet map building script included in the mod and got a weird sort of "Continental-Archipelago" map. I was isolated; most everyone else was together. I guess I've got to land Explorers when I send out my Caravels if I want to make contact? (I didn't bother this time, because everyone is on islands).

My next goal is to add in the Motorized infantry unit and a couple techs to flush at the eras further. So yes, this process will take time though.

Cool, I look forward to that. Will you add in two units, or just one?

Probably a WW2 one would do, but it'd be nice to see some M113 and BMP1s---like a WW2, 1960-1970s, then the modern version IFV (that vanilla has).

I've also posted some helicopter ideas to Wolf's thread.

Well, there are only 2 units I envision adding, Motorized inf, (late WW2/Korean War/Vietnam era) to fill the gap between the default WW1 infantry in the game that upgrade directly to post modern Information age Mechanized inf, that's too big a jump. Also I think Gunships need to be split into early Vietnam era Air Cav, and Current Attack choppers. I think a steam ship can be dropped as well, they are a little too crowded (do we really need Ironclad Battleships, Protected Cruisers, Pre-Dreadnoughts and destroyer escorts all coming out about the same time?).

Just finished the python work I was doing on city distance. So next step is to remove all those high poly units in the industrial and later eras to improve performance. Once that's done we can start working on getting unit art for the the new units. Finding art is the hard part, actually doing the XML work to introduce a new unit is trivial.

WolfRev is built from RevolutionDCM which is 50 civs. So unless the map is designed for 50 civs it wol't be compatable. :sad:

:confused: Then why did you include the 34 civ maps?

I didn't, I removed all the maps from 1.3.x
In previous builds I included the maps that came with RevDCM, figured they worked, since they came with RevDCM. They don't though, dont' know why glider includes them. I don't think there are any maps compatible with RevDCM based mods :(

Ah, OK... Damn those modders!:mischief:

Hey, Phungus. I'm still trying to get a handle on the "Start as Minors" thing. Diplo seems to be a big hassle. A couple of questions:

1. Do both parties need Writing, or just one?

2. As per your post above, I'd like just a clarification: So, my Caravel explores, and lands an Explorer (which is, of course, promptly killed), this will allow diplo contact (hasn't worked yet)?

3. Like I said, in the game I described, I was isolated and when I met everyone I was -8 for War, and also negative for religion. Noone would talk to me; heck, I only had one civ that would show "Refuses to Talk", everyone else was just a dead mouse click. How would I engage them in this situation? I'm even thinking of trying to build a Diplomat. :D Even in games without starting isolated, I still haven't been able to engage anyone in diplo.

4. Are there forums where the rules and strategies for Revolutions and Start as Minors are spelled out? There doesn't seem to be alot in the Mod Forums as regards actual play (mostly appears to be requests, code writing, and bug reports). I mean, how would I know that I have to land a land unit to engage a civ on another continent? I'd assume that there would have to be a guide somewhere, but I'm coming up with gotz on my share.

Thanks for the time, Phungus.

I don't really know what you mean here. There are buttons you can click on to filter units visible by type (such as land/sea, etc.), but if you simply never use one of the buttons, it the filter never is activated, so all units are activated and visible as normal.



I want to get rid of those buttons. They make it near-impossible for me to activate units by clicking on them. I don't have that problem in any other mod. They're glitched to me.

@bestbrian
Start as minors means the game treats units and cities from minor tribes as barbarian (that's the way it's coded it defines as pPlayer.isBarbarian). So diplo is impossible and you are at war. Once writing is discovered the isBarbarian functionality is removed. What you are experiencing is actually an effect of Barbarian Civs on the new world continent (or barbarian civs on islands not conected to the Old world). With barbarian civ, Civs that spawn from barbarian cities are always treated as minor tribes until that civ makes contact with 2 full civs AND has writing. Further New World civs have a third check, where it requires a full civ to set foot on the landmass where one of their cities is before the minor tribe status is removed.

Look at the scoreboard, if you hover over a civ on the scorboard there should be a little thing that tells you if the civ is a "minor" if so diplo is impossible until you have writing AND they have writing. Now if the civ is a new world civ that spawned from barbarians (Old world is the continent where the original civs that are created when the game is launched are on, New world are landmasses that are not connected to this continent), minor status is still imparted on that civ until the basic conditions are met AND an old world civ puts a unit on their landmass.

Now in your case since you were isolated, and you have caravels, it's a foregone conclusion all the other Old World civs have writing. So when you meet these civs, diplo introductions and the like will happen as usual (The way diplo introductions are done in default BtS--since they are not minor tribes any more, and neither are you, diplo will function as normal). However if you meet a new world civ (a civ that spawned from a barbarian city off of the continent where the old world civs were created) they will stay in minor tribe status unil the three conditions above are met. When a minor tribe gets organized you also stay at war until peace is declared.

I want to get rid of those buttons. They make it near-impossible for me to activate units by clicking on them. I don't have that problem in any other mod. They're glitched to me.
Could you show me a screenshot so I can see what you are talking about? In my game everything is normal, I just have the option to click filter buttons based on unit type/function (I never really use these to be honest, they are just part of the enhanced interface of BUG).

Thanks, Phungus, but that wouldn't seem to be the case. This game was a Huge/Marathon game with a total of 20 Civs. Two Civs have spawned from Barbs in this game, and a mouseover of the diplo screen did come up with the "Minor Civ" blackout for diplo. With all the other civs, it is as I described above (ie "dead" buttons, no diplomatic introductions, etc). Do I need to break out Civ II and build a Diplomat? :)

I'll post a save for you if you'd like, just tell me how.

You only recieve notification of a barbarian civ forming if you have seen the barb city it spawns from. I'm possitive you are running across new world barb civs. On a huge map, scores of them could spawn. Old World civs are no longer minors once they discover writing, you will have diplomacy with them as normal.

Feel free to post a save though.

Could you show me a screenshot so I can see what you are talking about? In my game everything is normal, I just have the option to click filter buttons based on unit type/function (I never really use these to be honest, they are just part of the enhanced interface of BUG).

Can't tell in a screenshot. It's when I click on the unit that it doesn't wake the unit.

Have you clicked the up arrow that unfilters all units?

phungus, i suggest to take a look at this mini-mod... it's great for any long civ game because it makes the global warming much more interesting.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11408

it would be great to include it in the next version of your great merge!

You only recieve notification of a barbarian civ forming if you have seen the barb city it spawns from. I'm possitive you are running across new world barb civs. On a huge map, scores of them could spawn. Old World civs are no longer minors once they discover writing, you will have diplomacy with them as normal.

Feel free to post a save though.

Someone was having a glitch in RevDCM where they weren't able to conduct diplomacy at all, even with full civs. I don't remember if that person got it fixed or if they did, what they did to fix it, but it's possible that the same thing is happening to bestbrian. I think if he does post a save that can clear things up though.

Also I think Gunships need to be split into early Vietnam era Air Cav, and Current Attack choppers. I think a steam ship can be dropped as well, they are a little too crowded (do we really need Ironclad Battleships, Protected Cruisers, Pre-Dreadnoughts and destroyer escorts all coming out about the same time?).



Looks like Varietas Delectat and Marnzmod will be a good place to look for the units.

For the helicopters, I've seen a few units:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7249638
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=253499 http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=3657
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8434
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239713

I'm not real sure on the ships. My own opinion is it's nice to represent every generation of 20-30 years, even if every generation wasn't involved in major wars in real life.

Not making promises on new art, but I did just score a copy of Blender for Dummies, so who knows, maybe I'll be able to make some low poly vehicles on my own. :)

Well, on my old comp- which runs XP, it worked fine.

New comp is on Windows 7 right now. Old comp can't run this mod period- heated up to about 95C running it. Why I have a new one.

I'll test tonight at work and try to get back some details before 8am ET tomorrow.

BTW I'd like to vote against removing ships. I like having all those options. I just wish it wasn't so bunched up.

Any thought to the anti-tank gun and anti-air gun from Merged Mod? Wolf hates those units though.

Also, adding units pretty much means your mod and Wolf's will diverge.

Someone was having a glitch in RevDCM where they weren't able to conduct diplomacy at all, even with full civs. I don't remember if that person got it fixed or if they did, what they did to fix it, but it's possible that the same thing is happening to bestbrian. I think if he does post a save that can clear things up though.

Thanks, Bob, I read that post when I first started researching this glitch, unfortunately, like you said, that thread died without a solution. I'll post a save from the game to clear things up. Now how do I go about doing that?

Someone was having a glitch in RevDCM where they weren't able to conduct diplomacy at all, even with full civs. I don't remember if that person got it fixed or if they did, what they did to fix it, but it's possible that the same thing is happening to bestbrian. I think if he does post a save that can clear things up though.

Thanks, Bob, I read that post when I first started researching this glitch, unfortunately, like you said, that thread died without a solution. I'll post a save from the game to clear things up. Now how do I go about doing that?

So what are people's thoughts on Leonardo's Workshop so far?

So what are people's thoughts on Leonardo's Workshop so far?

Didn't play it in-game yet, but I think it's statted perfectly--right cost, right benefit, right obseletion point. If it's still over-powered, I'd consider making the discount it gives decrease with age---so say upgrading to Rifleman would only be at 25% discount.

How about a national wonder, the SkunkWorks available at Assembly Line? Make it expensive---1000 :hammers: and maybe only 25% discount for upgrades? Maybe a free great engineer slot too?

Great mod :goodjob:

A couple of queries regarding the emergent civs:

1) I could've sworn on older versions the barbarian city that becomes a new civ gets renamed to that civs capital. Has my memory gone funny, or is this something that's been removed?

2) In my latest game, when the Incas emerged around 2000BC, they could already build Explorers. Is this meant to happen? Didn't help them much - they build nothing but explorers and sent them wandering around the map, while leaving 1 quecha and an archer to defend.`

phungus, i suggest to take a look at this mini-mod... it's great for any long civ game because it makes the global warming much more interesting.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11408

it would be great to include it in the next version of your great merge!
Hmm, definatly looks interesting. I'm just aprehensious about adding things in general though. Also I'd have to know it's entirly stable before I'd consider adding it. I'll keep this component in mind, but right now there are other priorities (removing high poly units, and revamping the City distance revIDX calc).

1) I could've sworn on older versions the barbarian city that becomes a new civ gets renamed to that civs capital. Has my memory gone funny, or is this something that's been removed?
Still does
2) In my latest game, when the Incas emerged around 2000BC, they could already build Explorers. Is this meant to happen? Didn't help them much - they build nothing but explorers and sent them wandering around the map, while leaving 1 quecha and an archer to defend.
The way the techs work for emerging barbarian civs is that they get a % of all techs known by other civs. Then if they are a military based spawn, they get a bunch of units (probably not enough really), if they are boomber based (I think the program flips a coin to determine, I don't know, I'd have to look at jdogs code on this) they get a free great person that they'll often use to lightbulb a tech. That's what must have happened; they spawned with Metal Casting and Sailing (probably metal casting was just luck, but someone in the world knows it then), and they bulbed Compass so they could build explorers off the jump.

Builder civs also get a certain number of free bonus techs (configurable in the revolution.ini file), I think it's 3 by default. That same file also lets you mod the % of techs known to all civs a barb civ will get, along with the chances of becoming a builder/military civ.

Still does

Well, it hasn't been doing so for me. Just had the Portuguese of Chinook :p

The way the techs work for emerging barbarian civs is that they get a % of all techs known by other civs. Then if they are a military based spawn, they get a bunch of units (probably not enough really), if they are boomber based (I think the program flips a coin to determine, I don't know, I'd have to look at jdogs code on this) they get a free great person that they'll often use to lightbulb a tech. That's what must have happened; they spawned with Metal Casting and Sailing (probably metal casting was just luck, but someone in the world knows it then), and they bulbed Compass so they could build explorers off the jump.

Makes sense. Guess it was a really wierd set of coincidences.

Well, it hasn't been doing so for me. Just had the Portuguese of Chinook :p
Have you seen the city since the new civ spawned? In your case you should have gotten a pop up that said: "The Portuese Tribe has formed in the City of Chinook!", but if you send a unit up there to invistigate, the City of Chinook will have been ranemed to Lisbon. Also it is possible the civ spawned as usual and captured the barbarian city of Chinook after the fact.
Builder civs also get a certain number of free bonus techs (configurable in the revolution.ini file), I think it's 3 by default. That same file also lets you mod the % of techs known to all civs a barb civ will get, along with the chances of becoming a builder/military civ.
That's right forgot about that.

Have you seen the city since the new civ spawned? In your case you should have gotten a pop up that said: "The Portuese Tribe has formed in the City of Chinook!", but if you send a unit up there to invistigate, the City of Chinook will have been ranemed to Lisbon. Also it is possible the civ spawned as usual and captured the barbarian city of Chinook after the fact.

Nope. It was their first, and only city. Here's another I've had. Mongols spawned in Cimmerian and the city didn't rename:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Phrox/Civ4ScreenShot0017.jpg


Oh, and on an unrelated note, here's a screenshot from the same game... :lol:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Phrox/Civ4ScreenShot0016.jpg

Hah, yeah, it always cracks me up when Hitler adopts Judaism. He seems to like that tech path, though, because it oddly enough seems to happen a lot. :lol:

OK, I'm sure this is listed somewhere, but I can't seem to find it. Where do you go to turn the DCM components on/off?

Also, I like Revolution, but the Revolutions just seem to happen oh so much. Is there a way to lower the chance of of Revolutions happening?

Help is greatly appreciated.

Okay, I think I've learned how to attach saves.

I hope this makes the situation clearer, Phungus.

Hmmm, that's weird. I don't know why but I can't load your game. Some error pops up that says "failure to uncompress" and then it just CTDs when I try to load your game. You said this is a huge map? Might just be too much for my computer to handle.

Anyway, You could could try to reinstall WolfRev, it'll uninstall itself and reinstall, and that might fix your issue, if there is indeed a bug occuring in your game.

OK, I'm sure this is listed somewhere, but I can't seem to find it. Where do you go to turn the DCM components on/off?

Also, I like Revolution, but the Revolutions just seem to happen oh so much. Is there a way to lower the chance of of Revolutions happening?

Help is greatly appreciated.

Ctrl + Alt + O opens up the BUG options. Look under the DCM tab. Also there are a few revolutions options that are toggled on custom game start up, same spot as your default BtS game options, like aggressive AI and so forth.

As for revolutions, well, distance from your capitol can be brought down by connecting it. Harbors help, techs help. Loosing cities in war also is hell on the rev idxes of your cities. But capturing cities pacifies them quite nicely. If your tax rate goes above 50% (science below 50%), you get penalized for it. Also despotism incures a pretty large rev idx penalty, switching to monarchy as soon as possible helps alot. Spreading your state religion is huge. And having a non state religion causes some revoltionary sentiment, inquisitions help there. The non state religion and failure to spread the state religion to far flung cities is what hurts the AI most I think. Finally the last thing I can think of is building wonders. It seems like Wonders have the same calming effect on the rev indexes as capturing an enemy city, which is quite a big short term help.

Hmmm, that's weird. I don't know why but I can't load your game. Some error pops up that says "failure to uncompress" and then it just CTDs when I try to load your game. You said this is a huge map? Might just be too much for my computer to handle.

Anyway, You could could try to reinstall WolfRev, it'll uninstall itself and reinstall, and that might fix your issue, if there is indeed a bug occuring in your game.

I'll try the reinstall, thanks.

Also, I like Revolution, but the Revolutions just seem to happen oh so much. Is there a way to lower the chance of of Revolutions happening?

Open up the Revolution.ini file in the Mods/RevDCM directory, and scroll down to where it says
IndexModifier = 1.0
IndexOffset = 0
HumanIndexModifier = 1.0
HumanIndexOffset = 0

and change the IndexModifier and HumanIndexModifier to 0.5 or something. That will make it so you need twice as much time for the rev index to fill up. I have mine set to 0.4 and it seems to work pretty well, revolutions occur every now and then but not overwhelmingly all the time (to compensate, I doubled the strength rebels have using another variable in the file). There's also a bunch of other neat options in the .ini file that you can change to your liking.

Thanks for the answers, all.

First off, great mod! Thanks for the hard work. However I am having a bit of problem. I started my first game after downloading the latest version (1.3.1). It went smoothly until 1190AD, at which point I can't load my save file any more :mad:. Could you please take a look at what's wrong here? Really appreciate your help.

It's possible the save is corrupted (it's rare but it happens occasionaly, even in default BtS, I've had a couple saves that just stopped working for whatever reason). Can you load up the closest available autosave? Not at my computer right now, so can't check the save. But to be honest I've never gotten into scenario or map editing (and probably wol't just not my thing, though I apreciate those who do), and so probably wol't know how to access or fool around with it anyway. So yeah, try to load up the last autsave from your autsave file. By default BtS (including this mod) autsaves every 4 turns, so you should have a save in there close, or possibly on the turn your save was made from.

Thanks for the quick reply. I fooled around with the saves a bit more. I think I know where things went wrong, which is hard to avoid. I am playing on a continent setting. I found out that the save file becomes un-loadable right after I meet one of the AI's in another continent. If I keep avoiding contact, which I initiate at this point, I can still keep playing and the save files are fine. It's kind of strange. Any thoughts?

Hmm, that's not good. That would lead me to believe there is an introduced bug. I'll need to download that save when I get home, and see what's up with that. That would be bad, would be the first non machine specific game breaking bug in WolfRevolution since I first uploaded it.

Edit: That sounds really wierd. So the game plays fine, it just corrupts the save file if you have met this leader. Who is it, and is there any noticible bug that occurs when you meet him, or is this totally linked to the save file?

OK, I just found out yet more about this bug (I am not sure if this is a bug or not to be honest). It seems like if I don't trade map with the 2 AI's (Hannibal and Sitting Bull) on that specific continent I am fine. I can load the save files without any problems. In the event if I do trade maps with either of those 2 guys, the game plays as usual, just the save file becomes corrupt. I've never had this problem in the vanilla BTS nor some other mods like BAT I used before.

I'll get home in about an hour, please upload a save from before this occurs. I need to look into this. Have you isolated the specific leader that causes this?

Edit: Yeah, I've tried loading it up, and it acts like it's going to. I even here the unit you selected make that noise that happens when you load a game and then it crashes to desktop. I'm nearly certain this is an art bug now, but I have no idea how it could have been introduced. All the art, and such is taken directly from 1.2.2 which as far as I know had no bugs like this. I really need to see a save from before this occures. Then I'll try to see what happens if I open up worldbuilder with python exceptions on and go from there.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Now I just hope a fix is easy to figure out.

In the event if I do trade maps with either of those 2 guys, the game plays as usual, just the save file becomes corrupt.
This bit is really wierd though, I've never heard of anything like it. Usually if it is an art bug, you'll crash imediatly when you try to interact with whatever is causing it (pushing a bad button etc.). For instance if it's some bad call with the terrain you get when you trade the map, I'd assume it'd crash the minute you got the map... So I really don't know...

Here's an off topic one, Phungus. Now that you're introducing new stuff into Wolf's end of the mod, don't you think you should rename it to something new? "The Phungus Amungus Civmod V 4.20"

I'll get home in about an hour, please upload a save from before this occurs. I need to look into this. Have you isolated the specific leader that causes this?

Edit: Yeah, I've tried loading it up, and it acts like it's going to. I even here the unit you selected make that noise that happens when you load a game and then it crashes to desktop. I'm nearly certain this is an art bug now, but I have no idea how it could have been introduced. All the art, and such is taken directly from 1.2.2 which as far as I know had no bugs like this. I really need to see a save from before this occures. Then I'll try to see what happens if I open up worldbuilder with python exceptions on and go from there.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Now I just hope a fix is easy to figure out.

Sorry, I am at work now. I will upload the save file before it occurs when I get home. Thanks.

Here's an off topic one, Phungus. Now that you're introducing new stuff into Wolf's end of the mod, don't you think you should rename it to something new? "The Phungus Amungus Civmod V 4.20"


Probably should do two mods. One would be "Wolfshanze toe jam (phungus between the paws)", and then the next iteration of WolfRev.

d'oh double post

=O !!!!

I've been playing Wolfie's mod for a few months now and thought I'd stop back here and see if I could find something new. Then as I started sifting through, I realized, 'Oh... but if I use a new one, I won't have all the great stuff from Wolfshanze's.'

I'm really excited about this. ^_^

Here's an off topic one, Phungus. Now that you're introducing new stuff into Wolf's end of the mod, don't you think you should rename it to something new? "The Phungus Amungus Civmod V 4.20"

I was actually thinking of "Bronze, Steam, & Tears" for a name. If anyone comes up with anything better though, that'd be cool. I think the name WolfRevolution is part of the reason this mod gets so few downloads. People see it and think it's some weird thing about wolves, lol. It's not very descriptive as to what the mod is about anyway. So yeah, let me know if you come up with a good name for the mod. Basically the end result will be the mod as it currently stands with a few tweaks (like a motorized inf unit to go between infantry & mechanized inf.), and a slight expansion of the End game techs, I think I'll be adding in 3 of them, the Information age just seems a little too crowded to me. I rarely get to that stage of the game, but when I do it just feels a little off. I had added in Quantum Mechanics, Hydroponics, & Aquaponics in my own personal mod a while back, and it felt like it smoothed out the end game well, so I'll be encorporating those in.

@goodyear thanks again. I'm really concerned about this actually. I hate the idea of this mod having a game breaking bug. Machine specific bugs are another matter, I mean I don't like the fact they exist, but I'm a realist, there is nothing I can do about it. But the fact WolfRev might currently have a bug in it that breaks it for all users goes against the whole design philosophy of the mod. So hopefully I can figure this out right quick and squash it.

Well, the problem I was having- fiddling around with the advanced options solved everything, I didn't know those options were added in.

As for Modern and Information age techs, one area that I think the game is lacking is late-game social techs.

How about things like Advanced Economics to create the Federal Reserve (national wonder, halves inflation increases)

I'd like to see that plus 1 or 2 other modern age techs that are social.

I guess a practical real world tech could be 'Fiat Currency' what it's effect would be, I don't know. The main issue though is that my philosophy is really that adding things is bad. I'd rather not add anything, I only do so if it seems necessary to smooth out a radical jump or something that just seems off. I don't really feel that Fiat Currency or something like it is needed for gameplay. Realism, yes the movement of all economies to a fiat system off of standards (mainly gold) was a huge development in real world economics. I just don't see how this would fit into or improve gameplay.

It just feels like the late game is research a tech to build more war stuff. All the late game techs seem to be either military, or pollution reduction to me.

Then again, I have a bias towards economics.

I'd also have a "Globalization" tech that would give a boost to the player who researched it, but share technologies known by half the civs to the rest.

It just feels like the late game is research a tech to build more war stuff. All the late game techs seem to be either military, or pollution reduction to me.

Then again, I have a bias towards economics.
Ah, well that's why I'll add in a hydroponics and aquaponics tech (from next war).

Hydroponics: +1 food from farm, can build farm in desert (only +2 food though, and must be irrigated)
Aquaponics: +1 food from fishing boats (only on resource boats, like clams and fish), and it will enable a building fishery, which requires an aquaduct, and only buildable on cities on rivers, +1 food on river tiles.
Also these will be required for a spaceship part, the one that requires ecology now.

A late game culture bomb would add some flavor too. Like some kind of Psyop tech.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_operations

Though Super Spies already has that. Have to check it for late culture victories, but something to research towards that at the end of the game would be good.

New, late game victory conditions would be nice also, like wealth or religion (though technically AP is that). Maybe an anti-Emancipation tech that brain washes everyone to prefer a Theological government instead of Democracy. Like Scientology or something. :)

And a globalization tech that gives a free corporation or something. Or maybe allows currency manipulation so you can create Great Depressions in other countries. Sort of an anti-Golden age of commerce.

@goodyear thanks again. I'm really concerned about this actually. I hate the idea of this mod having a game breaking bug. Machine specific bugs are another matter, I mean I don't like the fact they exist, but I'm a realist, there is nothing I can do about it. But the fact WolfRev might currently have a bug in it that breaks it for all users goes against the whole design philosophy of the mod. So hopefully I can figure this out right quick and squash it.

Here is the save. You can load this and trade map with Sitting Bull. Then save the game and try to reload it. You should be able to see the problem. FYI, I also have BAT installed. I don't know whether that caused the problem or not.

Away from my computer so I can't check it right now. But how did you merge BAT with WolfRev?

Edit: The_J just responded to a question regarding his fix for a loss of interface. For those with Steam or Civ Complete, have you had an interface with this mod, or is this mod unplayable (there is no interface)? Also does the installer work fine for Steam and Civ Complete?

I have a fix, thanks to The_J I'd like to try, but I need some Steam and Civ Complete users to test it. Also I'd really like to know if the installer works fine for Steam and Complete versions, as the problem revolves around pulling the path from the registry, which is how the installer works.

I didn't do anything special. I just installed both BAT and WolfRev using their respective installer.

Well based on the Python error log, I'm pretty sure it's caused by some city art for the Native Americans. Unfortunately, I can't find where this is defined in the XML. Anyone know where city art, not buildable buildings, but the basic buildings used in cites, like the houses, and such is defined? In wolfshanze these are ethnic area specific. I don't know where, I've scoured the old WolfRev versions, and I can't find anything I'm missing, but I have to have screwed something up there. And I'm pretty sure it's related to that.

OK, this art related bug is really strange. If I open up world builder, just once. It seems to correct itself (but saved games still crash). However, if I don't and instead try to use the Ctr + z key (I have debugging enabled for this) to reveal the map, the crash occurs, or you get the failed saves. However simply opening world builder seems to fix this. I have no idea what's going on...

I've started a thread on it here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=313709

Well based on the Python error log, I'm pretty sure it's caused by some city art for the Native Americans.

You mean the .nif files? They're in /Art/structures/cities

I think the bug could be poly related--drawing too many polys on screen at once, maybe? I do get lots of crashes when I DCM stack a very large stack, even if they're say standard Infantry units. I suspect the crashes are due to poly overloard when the DCM stack attack is animated. It's completely avertable if I just decrease the number of units selected for the attack. Might be the same thing going on with your save.

It's not poly related. Poly related bugs cause a MAF. This has to be an XML or code issue somewhere, it's behavior is like most art related bugs, ie a problem in the art defines file. I just can't locate it. I've scoured the XML and can't figure out where the city art is defined... I'm nearly positive this is where the problem lies. Also if it were poly related, opening world builder wouldn't fix it, and the game would crash once you traded the map, as of now it crashes only if whatever is responsible is outside the Fog of war, ie in your field of view AND you have not opened worldbuilder first (I think opening Worldbuilder foces the art to be rendered correctly somehow???).

Bug Report: got the Harbormaster quest (build harbors and caravels) triggered late. I had the Harbors when the quest was triggered, but caravels were already obsolete in the Wolfshanze tech tree (I had galleons). The quest obsoletes on Industrial era.

Quest should probably be written so it's a little more flexible in the acceptable naval units, or the trigger modified.

Well because of this bug, I'm just going to remove all unique city art (also there are some structures in the unique city art that have appoling polygon counts, GoogGame found one with 10000 polys!) from Wolf once I update to a new mod. Still don't know about a good name, any ideas? Thinking of Bronze, Steam & Tears, but that's not set in stone by any means, if someone comes up with something better I'll definatly use it.

Well based on the Python error log, I'm pretty sure it's caused by some city art for the Native Americans. Unfortunately, I can't find where this is defined in the XML. Anyone know where city art, not buildable buildings, but the basic buildings used in cites, like the houses, and such is defined? In wolfshanze these are ethnic area specific. I don't know where, I've scoured the old WolfRev versions, and I can't find anything I'm missing, but I have to have screwed something up there. And I'm pretty sure it's related to that.
They are defined in CityLSystem.xml and/or PlotLSystem.xml. If I recall there was some wrong file name used in some ethnic citystyle mod's version for native american - I think file name end was "...Native American.nif" while it should have been "...Native America.nif" (or vice versa).

That name sounds good.

In a way, what you're doing is what I ended up wanting Wolf's mod to be. I know he wanted to add all this historical realism stuff, I just wanted more expanded gameplay with the new units and balance tweaks. I think I was the only person who played Wolfshanze for the gameplay tweaks.

Well it went Warlords and Beyond the Sword. What about Civ4: Atomic Edition?

They are defined in CityLSystem.xml and/or PlotLSystem.xml. If I recall there was some wrong file name used in some ethnic citystyle mod's version for native american - I think file name end was "...Native American.nif" while it should have been "...Native America.nif" (or vice versa).

Thanks I actually tracked this, and just didn't see the n. That was really dumb of me, it was right under my nose and I was like "It's making the right call" but it wasn't, I can't believe I didn't see the n. Anyway thanks to you:

Patch released:
Download v 1.3.2 Patch (required, fixes critical art bug) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11927)

Updated to WolfRevolution 1.3.2 March 13, 2009
-Fixed Art Bug with Native American cities (WolfRevolution is now completely stable again, any issues experienced with WolfRev will, as far as is known now be machine specific)
-Updated RevDCM components with released RevDCM patches
-Rebuilt City Distance Calculation, and added a few tweaks to Rev numbers

Also of note this critical art bug was in all previous versions of WolfRev, and the Wolfshanze mod itself. I just never found it, as it rarely caused an issue. Thanks to goodyear for bringing this bug to my attention allowing it to be squashed.

Updated to WolfRevolution 1.3.2 March 13, 2009
-Fixed Art Bug with Native American cities (WolfRevolution is now completely stable again, any issues experienced with WolfRev will, as far as is known now be machine specific)
-Updated RevDCM components with released RevDCM patches
-Rebuilt City Distance Calculation, and added a few tweaks to Rev numbers


Downloading. BTW, just found a 20,000 poly unit. It's the Russian heavy tank, T90s. I'm pretty sure they just ripped it from a FPS game, probably Joint Operation.




I still require some Early Cold War era APC models though to implement Motorized infantry.

I was thinking you could avoid new models if you create 'motorization/mechanization' as a new promotion. Say it gives extra moves. Problem is the condition that it's granted---all units built in the same city, etc...

Phungus: IF you do start making large divergences from Wolfshanze standard, would you be amenable to having a pure alternative version?

Other than that, playing the new version; doubleplusgood!

Keep fightin' the good fight sir.

I ran across a few python error popups:

BarbarianCiv.py - line 744 - asks for Monuments.

RebelTypes.py - line 45 - wants the Holy Roman Empire. (They were removed, right? I think they might be hiding in Poland - that guy looks familiar.)

Revolution.py - line 6221 - I forget. Something about Attitude.

(Other than those making me wonder if I messed up the install, I'm having a lot of fun. :))

That line 45 one in Rebel Types is fixed in 1.3.2 (patch available in OP). Like the rest of these there was no noticeable in game effect of the exception, you can only ever know it occurs if you turn on python exceptions. In the rebel types case, it was checking for an invalid civ string, and since I noticed this and removed it I also added in the new civs. Prior to this fix the new civs, such as Austria could never be spawned as rebel civs. Even though these exceptions don't cause any obvious problems, I'd still like to squash them. Any chance you could upload a save before they occur, or do you know what actions/action you or the AI might have taken to trigger them?

Phungus: IF you do start making large divergences from Wolfshanze standard, would you be amenable to having a pure alternative version?

I will still be supporting WolfRevolution, yes.

That line 45 one in Rebel Types is fixed in 1.3.2 (patch available in OP).

Thought I had that one - guess not.


Any chance you could upload a save before they occur, or do you know what actions/action you or the AI might have taken to trigger them?

I'll see about a save if I get a pop-up after patching.

Hey Phungus, I've started to have a problem ever since "upgrading" my machine from XP to Vista. I'm finishing up a 1.2.2 game before installing 1.3.2, and now I'm getting the problem that every time a diplo box pops up at the beginning of the turn (for requests, etc.), the game sorta freezes. I say "sorta" because the leaderhead still moves, the textual introductions or demands are still there, and I can access all other buttons in the game except for the main menu and civilopedia game buttons. Those disappear. And when I go to click on one of the options presented to me, the text gets pushed down like when I normally click on the responses, but then it doesn't do anything. And I'm stuck. No way to get away from that first diplo screen (although, like I said, I can access all of the F# screens, and even oddly enough, I can bring up my city menus behind the diplo screen. But the diploscreen just hangs there.

Also, my physical memory starts getting eaten up:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e326/Zeiter/civ4-ctd.jpg

And I get this error message:

"Pure virtual function called - R6025
C++ runtime error"

or something very close to that.

I've tried playing WolfRev or BTS in general in XP SP2 compatibility mode, but then I get the weird situation where the .exe file doesn't recognize that I have the game DVD in my laptop. I can put the DVD in, click on the autorun thing that pops up, click "play Civ4" when the little autorun screen comes up (so obviously my computer knows that the DVD is there), and then I get "Please insert game DVD blah blah blah..." It's baffling.

The diplo freeze bug is a leftover from RevDCM 0.97. Sorry I removed the troubleshooting bullet on that, since the RevDCM component has been updated in 1.3.x. Delete your autolog.ini file (found in the WolfRev folder--after deleting the BUG core in WolfRev will make a new one, so nothing is lost), and that frozen diplo bug should be fixed. Also 1.3.x doesn't have that issue, but yeah, it's not save game compatible, so might as well finish your game first.

Also you're lucky you can still play any mod with Vista. Really, XP is an upgrade from Vista. As far as I can tell Vista only changes the interface at the cost of stability, compatibility, and efficiency.

I have Vista on my college laptop, and Civ manages to work despite being under the minimum system requirements. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to play WolfRev at college until you take care of all the high poly models. If you can also figure out a way to remove the swaying animations of the trees on the terrain you would be my hero.

Thanks for the tip, Phungus, but I tried that and it didn't work. Same thing still happening. And I fear that upgrading to WolfRev 1.3.2 will not solve it.

I think I might have come closer to figuring out the culprit, though. After Civ4 froze, I ran process explorer and, sure enough, over 95% of my RAM is being used up. But guess what one of the main culprits is...it's a process running under Civ4 in the process tree called "~e5.0001.exe" by "Macrovision Europe Ltd." At first I thought, "Oh no, I have spyware on my machine or something...." But I thought it was strange that the process was running under Civ4 in the process tree. So I googled it:
http://www.neuber.com/taskmanager/process/~e5.0001.html
http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=88970
Apparently it's "legit" software that comes with many newer computer games. And it slows down those games A LOT! Every gamer who has noticed it complains about it. Apparently it's digital copyright protection or somesuch. If you are running a no-cd crack, it will majorly slow down your game or crash it. If you try deleting the program, your game crashes.

See, here's the thing I don't get: I'm not using any sort of no-cd crack, or "STEAM," or anything unusual. I have the original, physical Civ4 Complete DVD in my laptop right now. That's what I used for the installation. I don't see why there should be a problem.

And why did I never have problems with this while running XP? It makes no sense....

So, even though the main menu button disappears when the diplo demand comes up, I can still hit ctrl+L to bring up the load-game dialog box. But when I try to load another game (or reload my turn save before hitting enter and getting the diplo demand), I get a Civ4 dialog box that says:

"Memory allocation failure"
Reason: bad allocation"

So once I get to the diplo demand screen, it doesn't crash immediately, but there's nothing I can do to get out of it while keeping it from crashing.

Sorry this one is beyond me. Usually a MAF is simply your RAM or video card being overloaded, so turning on python exceptions or other debugging options probably wol't help. You could always try though, see if they tell you anything. I'm surprised deleting the autolog didn't work, everyone else that reported thier game freezing on a diplo demand, had it resolved by doing that. You're probably right this is unrelated. I'm in the process of getting a divergent mod going, based on, but evolved from WolfRev. That will have all the high poly units, and city art removed (This will significantly reduce memory reqs of the mod), so possibly when that comes out it'll fix your issue. One more thing you could try, there was a bug that snuck in through Wolfshanze mod, that was just now caught. It was a critical art bug, that would cause crashes. In the CIV4PlotLSystem.XML & CIV4CityLSystem.XML files all instances of Native_American.nif needs to be changed to native america.nif I doubt though this is related to your problem, but it does remain possible, and is the only game crashing bug I'm aware of that existed in WolfRev 1.2.x and previous versions.

For now though, I'm all ears if anyone else has any ideas to help Zeiter, this one is beyond me.

Hey, I was just playing this mod and I built a galley. Then some error came up at the top of the screen where announcements are usually made (like "This city has built a galley"), saying something about not finding something involving the age of sail. I suggest someone take a look at the unit naming code and editing it to take into account the unit categories that came from Wolfshanze.

Yeah, I intentionally didn't add all the names to the advancedunitnameing.ini Just lazyness. It's very little reward, for a lot of work. It causes no problem whatsoever, just naval units don't get fancy names. If someone wanted to take the time to add all the names to the advancedunitnaming.ini I'd include it, but right now I have other projects I'm focused on.

Sorry this one is beyond me. Usually a MAF is simply your RAM or video card being overloaded, so turning on python exceptions or other debugging options probably wol't help. You could always try though, see if they tell you anything. I'm surprised deleting the autolog didn't work, everyone else that reported thier game freezing on a diplo demand, had it resolved by doing that. You're probably right this is unrelated. I'm in the process of getting a divergent mod going, based on, but evolved from WolfRev. That will have all the high poly units, and city art removed (This will significantly reduce memory reqs of the mod), so possibly when that comes out it'll fix your issue. One more thing you could try, there was a bug that snuck in through Wolfshanze mod, that was just now caught. It was a critical art bug, that would cause crashes. In the CIV4PlotLSystem.XML & CIV4CityLSystem.XML files all instances of Native_American.nif needs to be changed to native america.nif I doubt though this is related to your problem, but it does remain possible, and is the only game crashing bug I'm aware of that existed in WolfRev 1.2.x and previous versions.

For now though, I'm all ears if anyone else has any ideas to help Zeiter, this one is beyond me.

Well, I enlarged my virtual memory to the max allowable, and that has helped me use a very strange temporary workaround:

Now when I get a diplo demand at the beginning of a turn, I click my response, then I hit ctrl+s to save, and then ctrl+l to load that very same game file. When I reload, I get taken past the diplo screen to the first city pop-ups of my turn.

Now, I only get a diplo-demand every 5 turns or so...unfortunately, after doing this odd "reload" a few times, the game will still crash...but I can usually go about 10-15 turns before having to restart the game. Meh...it's a small hassle....I'm going to play this current game until I have no doubt about my victory, then move on to 1.3.2 and hope to god that that fixes it (but I fear not). Thanks for your help, though.

Ah, now I'm thinking, it could be a problem with the way my directories were installed. I've noticed that the shortcuts to the saves folders and custom mods folders and such in "program files\2k games\firaxis\sid meier's civilization 4 complete" don't actually work. They point to "C:\Users\name\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4 complete" whereas those folders are actually, for some reason, located in "C:\Users\name\Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\" For some reason, all except the custom assets folder are located under Beyond the Sword, which itself is not listed under Civ4 complete, but adjacent to it. Also, when I click on the program files shortcut for the custom assets, it asks me which type of program I want to open the file with. Uh...internet explorer, I guess....okay, then it directs me to my custom assets folder under "my games" just fine.

Is this a normal directory structure? If not, here's what I'm thinking of doing. Tell me if you think this would work:

*Move the documents/my games Beyond the Sword folder to within Civ4 complete, rather than adjacent to it.
*Remake all those folder shortcuts by hand

Also, there's an autolog.ini file under "C:\Users\name\Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\" as well. Is that usual? Perhaps I need to delete autolog.ini in both places? I will try that.

Edit: I have yet another instance of autolog.ini, this time in the "program files\2k games\firaxis\sid meier's civilization 4 complete\Beyond the Sword\Mods\WolfRevolution\autolog\autolog.ini" (notce, also, that here beyond the sword is nested under Civ4 complete, as usual). Should I delete that autolog.ini as well?

Here is an early alpha build of Bronze Steam & Tears.
To reduce size of the upload, I pulled out the art. You will need to copy in the Art Folder, Sounds Folder, and Wolfshanze FPK from WolfRevolution. Also of Note RevDCM artillery bombard is meant to be on in this version. The AI understands DCM arty bombard now, but I just didn't like the early units having it since cIVs combat engine wasn't designed with ranged bombarding in mind. However, Artiller (the Unit), and Mobile Arty both have this added in, but their strengths have been slightly reduced to compensate. This should be balanced.

Edit: Tried to remove the City Art by deleting the CIV4CityLSystem & CIV4PlotLSystem XML files from the building folder. It failed, I'll have to go in and edit out the art manually, so yeah, if you test this you'll need to copy these files from WolfRev back into the Building XML folder.



Anyway, to help Bronze Steam & Tears along, and get it released faster, you can play it, and share any insights for game balance, or improvements. Also report any bugs. As far as I know though, this alpha is stable, so feel free just to play it to play it. To be honest I'm less concerned about bug testing, and more interested in balancing & gameplay ideas.


Things I know I need:

Buttons:
-All the explorer buttons but with guns instead of swords in the button. That way I can add in the unique unit art for the frontiersman (Will Be renamed Pathfinder BTW, but this is an early build, so I didn't change that to the better name yet.) I have these models but have not implemented them in this build.
-Improved button for Armored Scout & Motorized Infantry
-Button for Asian artstyle galley. The default Wolfshanze galley looks too much like the caravel

Unit Art- All models found must be under 2000 polys (this is the crucial part, I can find art for most things, it's just knowing the poly size so if I can use it or not that's an issue), and look good:

-Armored Scout & Motorized Inf variants.
-Unit model for "drone carrier" end game submarine carrier that will carry drones (spy planes, UAVs, and the coming UCAV)
-Unit model for the aformentioned UCAV (end game fighter)
-Unit models for Special forces (end game paratrooper/scout)
-Unit art for Attack Choppers (end game gunships)
*all above will need buttons
-Late era Infantry models to flank Mechanized infantry (like how 2 infs flank Motorized inf)

Other art:
-Intro Screen to replace the Wolfshanze mod opener
-Era screen for "Information Age", I'm thinking an image of Google or Wikipedia's Homepage, washed out like the rest of the era pop up screens.

That's everything I have planned to implement that I could use help with.

Now, I only get a diplo-demand every 5 turns or so...unfortunately, after doing this odd "reload" a few times, the game will still crash...but I can usually go about 10-15 turns before having to restart the game. Meh...it's a small hassle....I'm going to play this current game until I have no doubt about my victory, then move on to 1.3.2 and hope to god that that fixes it (but I fear not). Thanks for your help, though.

The memory reqs in 1.3.2 are still insane. Wolfshanze had 3 10,000+ poly models in it, at least. Try the above Bronze Steam & Tears alpha build. All 2000+ poly models have been removed.

I have yet another instance of autolog.ini, this time in the "program files\2k games\firaxis\sid meier's civilization 4 complete\Beyond the Sword\Mods\WolfRevolution\autolog\autolog.ini" (notce, also, that here beyond the sword is nested under Civ4 complete, as usual). Should I delete that autolog.ini as well?
Yes. Also WolfRev must be in the program files path, it wol't work in my documents. I'm not sure with 1.2.x versions, but 1.3.2 has been updated, due to BUG, where it should work fine with "Civ 4 Complete" pathing.

Phungus, are you one of those people who wants barb civs to have an equal chance at becoming as powerful as original civs do? If so, I've been working on some small xml changes to Revdcm that you might be interested in including in Bronze, Steam, and Tears.

Yes I am. I adjusted the military barb civ unit modifier to 1.5 (default is 1). I'd be curious as to how you could increase barb civ power through the XML though. I would think it would require python or SDK work.

It's not so much increasing the barb civ power directly (although I did give them an extra settler and a worker or two when they form, bu that's the only python I did), it more about limiting the power of the "ancient" civs so that barbarian civs have more of a chance to become equal. I increased barbarian activity and barbarian city formation in the handicapinfos.xml, and allowed them up to 15 defenders (which will sometimes leave the city as hordes of ~10 units). I also moved building workers to pottery and settlers to writing, so the initial civs have to weather the barb assault for a while. Civs begin the game with 2 settlers and a few defense units, so within 3-5 turns, barbarian warriors start spawning.

Basically the combination of constant barbarians and needing to wait to build infrastructure/more cities makes civs focus all their energy on just surviving the early game, and barbarian civs will spawn to a less full world, and also less powerful neighbors. Out of 10 early game civs, usually 2 or so remain powerful on the scoreboard, and 3 or 4 more manage to survive and end up as vassals. Barbarian civs can easily end up on top of the scoreboard, but it changes from game to game.

Hmmm, I'm not interested in making those changes. What I could do is add in the "Barbarian World" component from the Assimalation modcomps. If I do that, I'll probably also add in the challenge victory option. Assimilation itself would not end up in the game, as it I disagree with it's change to gameplay.

Hmmm, I'm not interested in making those changes. What I could do is add in the "Barbarian World" component from the Assimalation modcomps. If I do that, I'll probably also add in the challenge victory option. Assimilation itself would not end up in the game, as it I disagree with it's change to gameplay.

i totally agree with you

Most of the changes I've made have been to try to get a similar effect to the "barbarian world' thing without having to merge or mod it in myself. I'd love if you could merge that in as an option (hell, I'd like twice the number of barbarian cities as players). I wasn't sure how many people would actually like my changes, but I figured if you were going to change some things for your own mod I might as well suggest mine.

Even though these exceptions don't cause any obvious problems, I'd still like to squash them. Any chance you could upload a save before they occur, or do you know what actions/action you or the AI might have taken to trigger them?

The only pop-ups I've seen lately all led back to [b]sXMLMonument[b]. It's mentioned several times in BarbarianCiv.py but isn't defined in RevDefs.py.

Edit: solution found! See bottom of post.

Hey, I tried BST, and hooray! No diplo freeze bug! Even on crappy vista! Woohoo! Anyhow, I'm trying to finish my WolfRev 1.2.2 game, and it's taking forever...sometimes I'll get two diplo demands on the same turn...that means two reloads, and possibly a whole game restart just to advance to the next turn. So I've been searching for a solution, because I really want to finish this game before moving on...

The diplo freeze bug is a leftover from RevDCM 0.97. Sorry I removed the troubleshooting bullet on that, since the RevDCM component has been updated in 1.3.x. Delete your autolog.ini file (found in the WolfRev folder--after deleting the BUG core in WolfRev will make a new one, so nothing is lost), and that frozen diplo bug should be fixed.

So, sorry to harp on this, but, hmmm...this is strange...after deleting all of my autolog.ini files (and after testing the game after that, to no avail), I don't find that any new ones get created, except in the BTS directory under My Documents. Is the autolog.ini file supposed to be created somewhere else? Is that what might be causing the problem?

Also, I see these following lines:

# When checked, will log all AI-initiated trade offers and demands along with your responses.
# Default: True

TradeAll = True

# When checked, will log AI-initiated trades and gift offers and your responses.
# Default: True

TradeOffer = True

# When checked, will log AI demands for tribute or help and your responses.
# Default: True

TributeDemand = True

# When checked, will log AI demands that you change religion and your responses.
# Default: True

ReligionDemand = True

# When checked, will log AI demands that you change civics and your responses.
# Default: True

CivicDemand = True

# When checked, will log AI requests to declare war on a third party and your responses.
# Default: True

WarDemand = True

# When checked, will log AI requests to stop trading with a third party and your responses.
# Default: True

EmbargoDemand = True

What if I set all of these to "False"? Would that make a difference?

Thanks for all of your help, and hats off to the new BST version!

Edit: Yessssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111! I just tried it after changing all of those from "True" to "False," and no more diplo freeze bugs!!!!!!!!!! Woohoo!!!!!!!!! Now I can finish this game with a modicum of sanity!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well to be honest, I don't know.... The diplo freezing bug was something I could never replicate (even trying saved games from those who experienced it), but it was experience with all 0.97 merges by certain users. Eventually someone posted an error log for glider to look at from a user that experienced it. And glider figured out it was some confict from the autolog.ini file, where deleting it would cause a new one to be generated, and it would be fixed. That's all I know. The best way to get an answer and more in depth ideas on troubleshooting this would be to post in the RevDCM thread, and explain your situation. glider1 stands a better idea of figureing out a solution then I do.

Again sorry for not knowing how to fix it, I was under the impression deleting the autolog.ini file fixed this for everyone that experienced. On the plus side 1.3.2 and the upcoming BST don't have this issue at all, or any known bugs (other then a text error) at this time.

Yep, thanks for your patience, sorry for cluttering up the thread a bit, and hooray for the fix I found! (See edit on post above).

More back on topic...I see in BST that you really pushed robotics, and thus mechanized infantry back in the tech tree, such that you have to research composites (and thus have access to main battle tanks) before mech infantry. As long as mechanized infantry doesn't require oil, I think this makes the most sense, and I've been advocating for this in various BTS forum threads for a while. Because if mechanized infantry isn't running on oil, then we have to assume that they are running on some super-efficient electric battery technology that we haven't even perfected yet. So I think that change is perfect. If you don't have oil, it's gonna take extra effort on the tech tree to stay alive military (which only makes sense, considering how pivotal oil is to modern warfare in real life). But at least this does leave players without oil an option, unlike making mech inf. require oil (which was another idea bandied about).

Now, concerning the ranged arty, I see "accuracy" numbers in the unit profiles. An accuracy of "60" means what, exactly? That the arty will do a ranged bombard of a unit (or units...how many exactly? Determined in same way as before?) and have a 60% chance of inflicting on each unit as much damage as in a head-on collateral attack? If so, then there will rarely be any incentive for traditional head-on collateral attacks, except when the odds for defeat have already become very very low. I'd happily bombard away for eternity with 60% (much less 80%, as with mobile arty) as much damage as before, if I could be sure that I wasn't risking my arty. (Incidentally, this would make for an indirect method of implementing "soft" zones of control along fronts and around forts...as units go by, they will get ranged arty damage, unless they try to take out the arty and its defenders in the fort or along the front. This will enable WWI-style trench warfare situations to naturally develop, assuming the AI understands how to use 'em this way as well. Cool!) Now, will arty and mobile arty have the option of traditional head-on collateral attacks, or does ranged arty replace that?

As far as mechanized infantry, well they were pushed back, but there is now motorized infantry available, much earlier. I "berfed" artillery and mobile artillery for BST. All RevDCM bombard ranges and accuracies have been set to zero, except for Arty and Mobile arty. But since they can now ranged bombard (A huge atribute, and yes, the AI understands it), they have been reduced by 2 strength. It should make Arty a more atractive tech though, I think bombarding is very powerful. That's an alpha build BTW, mainly released it for balance ideas and bug testing. So please share any ideas. I'll be releasing the seconed alpha in a few hours. Next will be the beta release, when everything is done, and only balance tweaks, bug testing and polishing art is needed. The alpha releases still have planed gameplay elements (such as units) to be added.

Hi, I recently installed wolfrevolution and I think its fantastic.... only problem is I also love the next war mod. Is it even feasible to merge the two together or even run both at the same time, as far as I am aware I can only run one mod at a time..... if so would they conflict?

I think civ would be perfect for me if this was possible.:please:

Hi, I recently installed wolfrevolution and I think its fantastic.... only problem is I also love the next war mod. Is it even feasible to merge the two together or even run both at the same time, as far as I am aware I can only run one mod at a time..... if so would they conflict?

I think civ would be perfect for me if this was possible.:please:
Sorry it's not going to happen. Never been a fan of the Sci Fi stuff, it just doesn't seem too civish to me. That said if someone wants to create a Next War Add On for BST, I'll gladly include it in the OP, when that comes out. Also BST has 3 end game future type techs, that together allows construction of Assault Mechs, but that's as close as this will ever get, and the only reason they are in is because it's end game, and you only get it after you research litterally everything.

Speaking of Bronze, Steam & Tears, the 2nd alpha is done. As an alpha build it does not yet have all planned features included. Once I have everything that's planned for BST in and working, I will consider the build a beta. The beta will just need art, and some beta testing from you guys who want to. It should be completely stable, but I'd like to make sure before an official release. Anyway things still needing to be implemented for the alpha to be beta:

Concept:
Add in Wonder Units mod comp (single buildable units, function similar to the Hero units from FFH, but they wol't get free XP like in FFH, they will just be strong units. For instance the Planned Spartan Hoplite will be Strength 6 with a 100% bonus to melee units, and 100% defense to archers, chariots, horse archers and elephants, will start with Drill 1 & 2): I need suggestions for these. The only two I've come up with so far are Spartan Hoplites, and The Bismark. I need at least a dozen to feel good about it.
-These will need buttons and models

Trait:
Progressive trait - Non State :religion: still produces culture.
+10% Science Rate.
Negative Revolution effects of Non State :religion: halved
Bonus production of University, Industrial Park, Hydro Dam
(waiting on Tsentom for this)

Units:
UCAV (End game short range fighter, unfortunately the model disapeared from the database)
Strike Fighter (current era stealth fighters)

Art, I need tons of art Please help with this if you can:
Top priority:
Buttons:
I need buttons for all the ethnic unit pathfinders. Currently they use the explorer buttons, but I need those replaced with muskets
Better Button for Motorized Infantry & Armored Scout
Ethnic unit models for Motorized Inf & Amored Scout (must be under 2000 polys)
Modern Infantry models that are cleared for having under 2000 polys. These don't need buttons, they will only be there to flank Mechanized Inf.

Lower priority, but need it for the final release:
Opening Screen.
(that's all I can think of off the top of my head, but I'm sure I need more)


Also of note for those that test the beta, the Apache US gunship UU will be going away, it'll be replaced by the Jeep (replaces Armored scout, but ignores Terrain Movement costs). That along with the Minuteman is good enough, hell the Minuteman is probably good enough as is.

Notes included in Alpha2, other then obvious things like new units and the tweak to the tech tree:
Settlers reduced to 1 movement
Expansive leaders get Morale and Mobility promotion free on Settlers & Recon units
Imperialist leaders receive a reduction to the Revolution City Distance Penalty
Removed tax Revolution effect. I did this because from reading the Stories and tales forums, I've realized the taxes implementation of revolutions only pigeon holes out creative and novel strategies. Also I don't think the tax rate is really a tax rate per se, as science just means a different allocation of taxpayer dollars, not that the citizens are paying less. This means for the Civ Stability calculations in the code, taxes are always treated at 25% (considered normal range, basically no effect)
Organized is treated as a 0% tax rate, which means they get a constant very slight Civ Stability bonus to their Rev Index. Also the stabilizing effect from culture spending is doubled for organized leaders.
Spiritual trait has it's Positive State :religion: Rev Bonus doubled. (Not implemented yet, but Missionaries will also recieve the Morale and Sentry promos)


OK that's all I can think of for right now.

Please play test this and give me feedback. This should be stable, but if any bugs are found, I need to know, I've only been able to log in a couple hours testing it, so there may be something hidden late game or whatever. It needs playtesting for that. Also I need feedback on balancing tweaks and what not.

As with the last alpha build of BST, this doesn't include the Art, Sound, or GameCore.dll found in WolfRevolution, to save space. So you must copy the Wolfshanze.fpk, Art folder, the Sound folder, and the CvGameCoreDLL.dll from WolfRevolution into the Assets folder of BST.

And again, please playtest and give feedback.

Allow for an option to turn the Wonder Units off at least please.

I never like units such as this, and the Early Flyer.

Concept:
Add in Wonder Units mod comp (single buildable units, function similar to the Hero units from FFH, but they wol't get free XP like in FFH, they will just be strong units. For instance the Planned Spartan Hoplite will be Strength 6 with a 100% bonus to melee units, and 100% defense to archers, chariots, horse archers and elephants, will start with Drill 1 & 2): I need suggestions for these. The only two I've come up with so far are Spartan Hoplites, and The Bismark. I need at least a dozen to feel good about it.
-These will need buttons and models

Trait:
Progressive trait - Non State :religion: still produces culture.
+10% Science Rate.
Negative Revolution effects of Non State :religion: halved
Bonus production of University, Industrial Park, Hydro Dam
(waiting on Tsentom for this)


How about making these new 'Hero' units be an alternative option for the Great General, instead of making them wonder-based. If there's only one of them per type per game, they could be an alt or replacement for turning a GG into a warlord. E.g. When settling a GG into a unit, have the choice of bestoying the 20XP to the stack, or turning the single unit into a 'hero' unit?
The Hero unit might be unit-contextual----so a spearman could be turned into the Spartan unit, a battleship could be turned into the Bismark. And that way you wouldn't need to make the hero units civ-specific, or even really balance them against each other. The only imbalancing aspect would be that it'd buff 'Imperialistic' as well as the Great Wall (due to higher GG emergence). Since it'd buff the imperalistic trait, it might be a better buff than the one you posted earlier regarding the revolt bar.

For units:
Paratroopers--101st Airborne division (innate +10% healing, innate pinch, innate guerilla)
Marines-----Seal Team Six (innate ambush, amphibious, commando, combat 4, guerilla and hill defense, and ranged bombard)
Light tank---probably something from El Almein, or one of Israel's early wars.
Medium tank---probably something from Vietnam or Israel's wars
modern tank---probably 1st Cav Div, 3rd Armor Div (basically mucho extra ambush, morale, pinch, commando). Probably worth having multiple iterations to avoid unwanted haters.
longbow-------yeomen of Agincourt time frame
cavalry and cannon-----probably something from Napoleon's time. Can't find a stand out though
pikes and muskets----probably around 30years war time, maybe related to G.Adolphus?
knights-----Knights Templar (probably morale at least)
warrior------Neanderthall mercenaries? Mythic wrestler? (gilgamesh/hercules)
infantry----a lot of WW2 era choices. Should be multiple available from all the major nations. Ranger battalions, 3rd ID, 1st ID, etc..
ironclad cruiser---HMS Warrior
ironclad--------Monitor and the Virginia
submarines-----http://www.valoratsea.com/subs1.htm "Wolf Pack" maybe Donitz Wolf Pack?

I like the Progressive trait idea as a Revolutions-specific trait. Not sure if University should get handed out twice. How about Laboratory/Observatory instead (I don't believe any civ get's those cheap)?

Also how about a Repressive or Reactionary trait? Traits something like: free spy-detection bonus to spies? Bonus to building security bureau, courthouse and castle? Slight decrease in revolt chances due to distance? Increased resistance to non-state religion spread (turned off in Free Religion)? -10% to science, +10% to espionage.

Scientific civs get cheap labs, I think. I really like integrating rev stuff into traits too. For a "wonder unit," I think The Red Baron could be cool.

Found a little gem:

trebuchet.....Warwolf, probably the largest trebuchet ever made http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warwolf

Others:

battering ram....Trojan horse? (free city attack and temporarily confers immunity to siege weapons to whole stack? would need FFH2 code)
Assyrian ram? Nothing that I've seen for a super-ram in history.

catapult....early catapults were actually from ancient crossbows, invented in Greece as the Gastraphetes.. How about an early crossbow archer unit as the hero catapult? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastraphetes
http://sp8.fotologs.net/photo/40/36/53/irae_dei/1192938476_f.jpg
http://aom.heavengames.com/gameinfo/units/greek/pix/gastraphetes.jpghttp://www.xlegio.ru/artilery/gastraphetes.jpg


for swordsman...probably the Roman legions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_legions
"Legon X Equestris" mounted legion, one of the more famous of Julius Casesar's (mounted so +1 movement, innate shock?) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legio_X_Equestris
Or maybe the Praetorian Guard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praetorian_Guard or their replacements: Scholae Palatinae http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholae_Palatinae

for curaissers and muskets......household (ie.bodyguard) units. E.g. "Lifeguard"
"Maison du Roi" (Royal Household/King's Household). Could be infantry or mounted (dragoons).
Would be considered the elite units of the military.
http://www.geocities.com/uniformsbymary/lifeguard.jpg


carrier.....USS Enterprise CV-6 http://www.cv6.org/ most decorated ship of WW2

infantry....Marine raiders (given amphibious, commando)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Raiders

destroyer....USS Nicholas DD-449 (maybe most decorated US ship ever) http://www.ussnicholas.org/index.html

cruiser.....USS Portland, USS New Orleans, USS Minneapolis (all highly decorated)

jet fighter....how about a SR-71 Blackbird (stealthy, but no weapons, just used for recon)

If these things are not civ-specific it won't be too bad. These units should be unpromotable, 1 per game, and should be random which one appear in every game. First civ to build the unit should get it.

I really don't like the idea too much though.

I think in gameplay, the concept will work if the units give something unique/early but aren't just renamed warlord units.

the gameplay mechanic will be that they are buildable like wonders (only one in the world of each type may be built, unlockable with the proper tech(s), and be expensive, but have a definable useful war role if you're lucky enough to build them). There will be somewhere between a dozen and a half dozen of them. They will be treated like normal units when built, I'm assuming these will be the targets for Great Generals, but that of course will be up to the player.

Hmmm, I'm not sure if I like this idea. Unless it can be fully fleshed-out and balanced, I think it is too awkward of an addition. It feels a little...gimmicky?

Here's an alternate idea: increase the base rate of great general emergence to twice the previous rate...and give GG's 30 free xp when attaching to a unit, to make that a more attractive option. And increase the base rate of xp per battle. This give you more of an ability to customize and play around with your super-units, instead of having one set of pre-fab super-units. What I'd really like is to be able to develop a 100+-xp axeman, or a 100+-xp rifleman, etc., just as a matter of course. In FfH2, I could regularly get units up to 100 xp even without attaching GG's to them, just because I think the base rate of xp growth was increased, and it made for a heck of a lot of fun. I had one super-warrior with like 120 xp that I never attached a GG to or upgraded. He was strength 3 at first, then strength 4 with bronze, then strength 5 with iron weapons, and plus he had like combat 5, shock 2...all sorts of crazy stuff, giving him like a strength of 14+ when facing melee! Without ever upgrading him!

I'm not sure how I stand with "wonder units," but I think they could be fun. I'd much rather see the way phungus has it planned though, than messing with all the GG stuff and experience.

People love wonders. I assume Hero Units will be an interesting game concept that doesn't really change gameplay, just kind of a wonder for warmongers. Though, if people are really against it, I can of course drop the idea, it would certainly be simpler. Also if they are added, they will follow the KISS principle, so no complex great general stuff. Just simple, Wonder type stuff to build for warmongers.

Edit: Also I'm really interested in any feedback from people who are trying the BST alpha. Any ideas and tweaks to improve it are welcome. Keep in mind though, any suggested tweak must follow the KISS principle, this will not be a RoM clone mod. The goal of BST is to provide an expansion type mod that will look like what an official XP would look like. This will not end up being an overgrown beast with dozens of added features or complex concepts, everything must flow like the change from Vanilla Civ to BtS, that is the standard I am going for.

Phungus, what is the RoM mod?

Sorry it's not going to happen. Never been a fan of the Sci Fi stuff, it just doesn't seem too civish to me. That said if someone wants to create a Next War Add On for BST, I'll gladly include it in the OP, when that comes out. Also BST has 3 end game future type techs, that together allows construction of Assault Mechs, but that's as close as this will ever get, and the only reason they are in is because it's end game, and you only get it after you research litterally everything.

The main reason I like the Next War mod is how it makes it much harder to win by space race, I haven't got to the end of a game yet using WolfRevolution but i'm guessing that you haven't altered anything to do with the space race.

Really loving the mod anyhow (i'm particularly liking the revolutionary aspect, it's making games much more interesting) and will definately be sticking with it. Thanks for making civ all the more colourful :goodjob:

Originally Posted by phungus420
Sorry it's not going to happen. Never been a fan of the Sci Fi stuff, it just doesn't seem too civish to me. That said if someone wants to create a Next War Add On for BST, I'll gladly include it in the OP, when that comes out. Also BST has 3 end game future type techs, that together allows construction of Assault Mechs, but that's as close as this will ever get, and the only reason they are in is because it's end game, and you only get it after you research litterally everything.

The main reason I like the Next War mod is how it makes it much harder to win by space race


I'd been thinking it'd be possible to do a realist version of Next War, based on real current research in the military.

https://www.fcs.army.mil/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Combat_Systems

Basically 'super-units' of mechanized infantry that have the 'video game' aspect of modern war down pat (sensors, drones, instant digital communication between every single soldier and every other peace of equipment). Kind of a nice alternative to researching Future Technology #1,2,3....


EDIT: This might make a good mech inf hero unit.

Phungus, what is the RoM mod?

Rise of Mankind, one of those mega-mods which completely reworks the tech tree, adds tons of new civs/religions/units/everything.

Yeah, RoM is a great mod. But it has a different vision then I do for BST. Based on your comments Retrospect, I actually reccomend you give it a try, you may like it.

Still looking for comments from people that have tested the alpha BST build.

People love wonders. I assume Hero Units will be an interesting game concept that doesn't really change gameplay, just kind of a wonder for warmongers. Though, if people are really against it, I can of course drop the idea, it would certainly be simpler. Also if they are added, they will follow the KISS principle, so no complex great general stuff. Just simple, Wonder type stuff to build for warmongers.

Well, if you implement it in a similar way that the hero units of FfH2 are implemented, I'll be happy with it, for one. But it just seems like it would be strange to "build" a hero unit in a quasi-historical version of Civ4. Maybe have quests for each one?

I've started 2 seperate games using your alpha build. I haven't got very far into them but so far I like most of the changes.

The new roman legion seems alot more balanced than before and still owns in the field but gets completely hung up when trying to take cities. The normal swordsman (and possibly the legion) really needs its innate 10% city attack back.

I was worried about the new axeman's stats until i played it. The player can no longer just spam axes now especially with the horseman being all around more useful. However the phalanx despite all its buffs still seems to be lacking. It still seems to pale in comparison to its real life counterpart. Especially when you look at the other units that carved out enormous empires. What was the reasoning behind the +25% city defense?

Thank you for finally putting the keshik where it belongs; as a contemporary of the knight. It has irked me to no end since Civ IV came out. I might suggest bumping their withdraw up 5 or 10%. I dont think think it would hurt too much and it would better simulate the tactics they used too conquer most of asia.

I absolutely love the new special forces unit. I was wanting to create a unit exactly like that for a while now. However it comes extreeeeemely late. Its almost the last ground unit in the game. Does it really need Stealth and AI? I dont think that either of those techs should have anything to do with the unit. I know theyre supposed to use stealthy but its completely different. Is there no other place in the tech tree for them? Despite their awsomeness they dont seem overpowered to push them alot further back in the tech tree. Where they are now they run up against alot of MA and MI and completely flounder. Also the flanking against arty, mobile sam, etc doesnt seem to be working at all.

It does seem odd that you have units upgradeing into completely different classes like recon>mounted and gunpowder>recon. Nothing wrong with it just seems odd. Unless someone find degenerate combo with the promotions. I doubt it though. We can already go CR melee> CR gunpowder.

It seems like everything can see stealth destroyers now. Ive never once got far enough to build them but the invisibility seemed like their big draw. Could a super carrier really be able to see them? I really dont think that should be an inate ability of the super carrier. UAVs can already spot them so you should have to run constant recons for protection from them. Since spies and special forces can see stealth ships could you them in a sub or transport to see them?

I have alot more notes but I have to leave the computer for a while. I'll be back with more later.

Edit: By the way I really like the Idea of the wonder unit. I have a few questions and ideas concerning those.

I've started 2 seperate games using your alpha build. I haven't got very far into them but so far I like most of the changes.
Thank you for the comments and giving feedback. This is what I need.

The new roman legion seems alot more balanced than before and still owns in the field but gets completely hung up when trying to take cities. The normal swordsman (and possibly the legion) really needs its innate 10% city attack back.
Actually swordsman wol't get the 10% city attack back. This is because, firstly axes have been nerfed, and with longbows requiring construction as well as feudalism, and the availablility of siege rams; overall city defenses have been drastically nerfed. The swordsman loosing his 10% attack against cities I think is needed. BTW the Legion will now have drill. So they basically completely own enemy infantry, but they are no different then regular swordsman against mounted units.

I was worried about the new axeman's stats until i played it. The player can no longer just spam axes now especially with the horseman being all around more useful. However the phalanx despite all its buffs still seems to be lacking. It still seems to pale in comparison to its real life counterpart. Especially when you look at the other units that carved out enormous empires. What was the reasoning behind the +25% city defense?
I'm very happy with the new balance that this ended up with. str 4 with 50% vs melee makes axe spamming not the be all and end all that it is in BtS.
I agree with the phalanx though, I haven't come up with a solution to the phalanx that satisfies me. Any ideas?

Thank you for finally putting the keshik where it belongs; as a contemporary of the knight. It has irked me to no end since Civ IV came out. I might suggest bumping their withdraw up 5 or 10%. I dont think think it would hurt too much and it would better simulate the tactics they used too conquer most of asia.
I'll look over the stats again and see about this. Remember though that Knights have 0% withdrawl, and I think I set the keshik at 20%, that along with ignoring terrain movement seems pretty strong to me a though.

I absolutely love the new special forces unit. I was wanting to create a unit exactly like that for a while now. However it comes extreeeeemely late. Its almost the last ground unit in the game. Does it really need Stealth and AI? I dont think that either of those techs should have anything to do with the unit. I know theyre supposed to use stealthy but its completely different. Is there no other place in the tech tree for them? Despite their awsomeness they dont seem overpowered to push them alot further back in the tech tree. Where they are now they run up against alot of MA and MI and completely flounder. Also the flanking against arty, mobile sam, etc doesnt seem to be working at all.

It seems like everything can see stealth destroyers now. Ive never once got far enough to build them but the invisibility seemed like their big draw. Could a super carrier really be able to see them? I really dont think that should be an inate ability of the super carrier. UAVs can already spot them so you should have to run constant recons for protection from them. Since spies and special forces can see stealth ships could you them in a sub or transport to see them?
Firstly I've tweaked SF thus: 18 strength (big nerf I know, but remember they are stealth, and can drop up to 10 range). They now however get a 50% bonus against trench and siege units, and maintain their flankstrikes. Combine this with their free commando promotion, and the fact they will now target trench units first in combat outside of cities, and I think they now fit their real world role well. Now as far as moving them up in the Tech Tree, what suggestion do you have for it's prereques?

As for seeing stealth units, this is due to the fact SF are stealth. The units that can see stealth are UAV, SF, Spies, and SuperCarrier. Now the reason supercarriers can see stealth is because I can't give a unit two cargo types, it can either carry fighters, or recon planes. So I chose to pretend that a SuperCarrier had a UAV on board at all times, and thus can see stealth ships. Also stealth ships now have the ability to hold one sea plane, since in the end game navy nothing else has cargo room (everything else already has a cargo type filled).

I agree with the phalanx though, I haven't come up with a solution to the phalanx that satisfies me. Any ideas?


I haven't tried out this new mod yet, but sounds like you're handing out Drill for units that have strong tactical formations, which sounds reasonable, and especially in the case of a spear phalanx since it would be effective against all unit types except ranged siege. Sounds like Phalanx should have Drill as well then. Maybe an innate "1 first strike" plus Drill 1?



more heros:


fighter.......RAF 11 Group (Battle of Britain group that held the center of the battle, protecting London)