I can probably do some, maybe not soon but eventually I can do it. (Today I looked through the first 7 or so pages but didnt write anything down.)

In that case, why don't I take 11-30?

Originally posted by TETurkhan
bobisback - sure thing no probs...
How is it coming along BTW?



I have gotten quite a bit more done:)

Pages 1-10: BobTheTerrible
Pages 11-20: Moulton
Pages 21-30: Moulton
Pages 31-40:
Pages 41-50:

Originally posted by spork
Edit: Oh how would you like this message popup: "The black plague has struck our country!" That might actually be doable, since we already have a mechanism for jungle disease...

If it would be somehow possible I think it would be great to implement Spork´s idea of diseases! Considering the fact that many disease epidemics were spreading all around the world with fatal impacts. For instance the plague touched in the Middle Ages very huge number of people and many of them died. Economics fallen dramatically down during that time. Variola spreading in course of crusade wars caused for example another fatal epidemic. About one third of European population died! I think these are considerable disasters that affected many coutries and so they could be somehow reflected in TET (if possible of course).

When we speak about disasters it would be nice to simulate floods, forest conflagrations, hurricanes and so on. These natural disasters also greatly affect life of many people all around the world. It costs not just a lot of money but also people lives (especially floods in Asia). Some ancient South American civilizations were brought to the edge of doom because of El Nino effects (long lasting drought, moving of some species off their territories...).

The goal wouldn´t be to hit the world every while with some disaster or disease, of course. An idea is to bring this mechanism about just in cases when it would reflect some key events in history of specific countries. I know that it is nearly impossible to implement it but someone might have any idea.

Its probably not possible with the current editor. The Conquests expansion is supposed to have a better editor, and include natural disasters as well. Perhaps then, with some scripting, it would be possible to make some disaters.

Speaking of Conquests, does anyone know whether the maximum civ limit will be removed?

Originally posted by TETurkhan
Pages 1-10: BobTheTerrible
Pages 11-20: Moulton
Pages 21-30: Moulton
Pages 31-40:
Pages 41-50:

I can do 31-40 by the end of this weekend.

Do you want us to email you the list of points/suggestions when we are done?

Thanks Zabba!

yes please email me the summary - teturkhan@hotmail.com
Now just one more person!

Pages 1-10: BobTheTerrible
Pages 11-20: Moulton
Pages 21-30: Moulton
Pages 31-40: Zabba149
Pages 41-50:

I'll take the 41-50 slot Tet, if that's ok for you. It will be a nice thing to do while my slow PBEM opponents play their turns :D

QUOTE]If it would be somehow possible I think it would be great to implement Spork´s idea of diseases![/QUOTE]
I think that this would only be fun in a senario, because any random event that is hugely destructive just seems anoying. If a comet were to hit your house and kill your whole family but you, leaving you with one leg and one are, would say to yourself "thats just life! Life is a journey!". I don't think you would, just like I wouldn't say "that's just the game! The game is just a game!". I would be quite anoyed! But it would be quite fun, and chalenging, to start as a European nation right at the end of the Black Plague...

Thanks Taurendil!

Pages 1-10: BobTheTerrible
Pages 11-20: Moulton
Pages 21-30: Moulton
Pages 31-40: Zabba149
Pages 41-50: Taurendil

On a different note - Lately I have not been getting any emails notifying me of new posts in this thread. Anyone else experiencing this as well? :confused:

Originally posted by McVador
I think that this would only be fun in a senario, because any random event that is hugely destructive just seems anoying... But it would be quite fun, and chalenging, to start as a European nation right at the end of the Black Plague...

I agree that any really huge destructive disaster or disease would be annoying, of course. That wasn´t my thought. The first question I wanted to discuss about was whether it would be somehow possible to simulate these events. When we find some way how to implement it than we can talk about the quality and quantity of such disasters. Dying of one third of European population is surely not much funny. Of course we have always to keep on our minds that this is just a game. And main feature of each game is fun. So we would have to find some balance between reality simulation and fun. But that is the main goal of TET-mod, isn´t it? ;)

Well just think about some new possibilities the game could bring us when this idea would be realized. Imagine that Black Plague would struck your neighbour. Firstly just one or two cities. But it would be spreading through the country without respecting the borders. If you wouldn´t have Plague cure (depending on your medicine knowledge) you could ask your allies to provide you some. Otherwise you would suffer. You would have to pay for the cure or you could get it as a proof of good will. And vice versa. If you would have the cure and someone would struggle with Plague you could trade or donate it. Or you could cure just yourself and let your enemy get weaken. It could be also interesting when your soldiers moving through diseased region could be infected and bring the disease to your country, etc... Everybody can play with its imagination to think about new possible situations that could turn up and get more dynamics and challenge to the game.

In the following thread there is an interresting tornado "unit": http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57146

Presenting it as unit is not very lucky. I couldn´t imagine anyone fighting with tornado! :rolleyes: But when it could randomly appear for instance above the ocean, randomly move towards a coast, strike that area and slowly disappear, it could look much interresting, couldn´t it? ;)

Originally posted by TETurkhan
On a different note - Lately I have not been getting any emails notifying me of new posts in this thread. Anyone else experiencing this as well? :confused:

I have received all the latest notifies! Even the one of your latest email! :confused:

You need to log into the site before you recieve another e-mail, I believe

How many of you would like to see this mod put on a ultra huge world map which is 30% bigger? “El Mencey's 362 by 362”? Look over the following key points then post your thoughts.

Thanks!


Key Points:

PROS:
• Don’t worry about slower speed times. I have devised a way around this that cuts wait time between turns down by at least half.
• The larger map will allow for greater variance in unit movement rates.
• The new map will allow for more space between cities which stop some resources meant for one city from being used by another (this results in cities having populations inconsistent with history).
• There will be two versions (both on this ultra huge map), one for slow PCs & one for faster ones.

CONS:
• It will require LOTS of time to put all units, resources, cities on the new map. Furthermore, though El Mencey’s has made an excellent map, it will need further work. The utility he uses is great but it does cause distortion in certain areas. One such area is the Adriatic Sea which is very narrow. Another is Italy which does not extend southward enough. Time will have to be spent fixing such areas - adjusting the shape & type of terrain of the map.
• The larger map will have reduced number of cities. This applies even more for the slower PC version.
Note: The negative points made here can be alleviated if I could get some help. The work will be very tedious plus will require people who are meticulous.

I think it is a great idea:goodjob:

I think it is a great idea:goodjob:

That sounds great! I'd love to be able to play on something that big. I'm curious, can you reveal how you cut turn length down?

The only part that concerns me is the reduced number of cities... I would have assumed that, on a larger map, it could be increased. Is this only due to time issues? I'm sure that plenty of people would be willing to help. I know I'd certainly like to. The only concern I'd have would *be* the speed issues-but if you have resolved them, then...

[dance] [dance]

thanks for offering to help Lord Apolon :)

Reducing the number of cities results in a considerably faster game. To give you an idea, take a look at Spain; it currently has 7 cities, the amount for the the ultra huge map would be reduced to only 3 or 4 and for the slower PC version down to 2.

I like the huge map idea, more space would definitely allow for more cities and make Europe more interesting.

I like the huge map idea, more space would definitely allow for more cities and make Europe more interesting.

I like the huge map idea, more space would definitely allow for more cities and make Europe more interesting.

I love Lord Apolon's idea! I enjoy playing the European civs like Spain, but it is so cramped that it takes away from the fun of building up your favorite cities.

I wouldn't mind the ultra huge map, but I hope you'll still design the game on a smaller map as you had previously planned on...??

The Ultra Large map will have half the amount of cities the mod currently has. In total 155 cities max. The slower PC version will have 93 cities max.

It is wrong to think that there will be more cities since the map is larger. I could go this route but honestly the game wouldn’t be playable. The wait time between turns would get insanely long.

Hope that clears things up :)

iamliberal The mod would be only on the ultra huge map. There would be a version for slower PCs but that also would be on the ultra huge map but with reduced number of cities.

Originally posted by TETurkhan
... The utility he uses is great but it does cause distortion in certain areas. ...


Hi, only one detailing, the map of 362x362 this handmade and took me to do it several months. Of course it`s possible to be improved. I animate you it. The resources are located in real the geographic zone and the right amounts. At least that I tried. ;)

Link to animate gif image.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44762

Link to World Maps - Resources, Vegetation & Physiography.
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk/civ.html



I feel not to be able to speak well English. Sorry. :(

So far I have recieved a summary for pages 31 through 40. Still awaiting the rest please try to speed things up! thanks :)

In the meantime for the rest of you, take a look at El Mencey's huge 362 by 362 map and let me know what you think - remember the larger map will not cause the mod to run slower. I will reduce the number of cities that can be founded on the map and that should cut down the time between turns by around half - making this ultra huge map playable even with 31 Civs...

Tet, I won't be able to do my part until Thursday or later, sorry.

Originally posted by TETurkhan
In the meantime for the rest of you, take a look at El Mencey's huge 362 by 362 map and let me know what you think - remember the larger map will not cause the mod to run slower. I will reduce the number of cities and that should cut down the time between turns by around half - making this ultra huge map playable even with 31 Civs...

Already have, I imported my version of you mod to his map(very fun)

Finished 11-20 -- will get you a summary today. Nothing there you have not already addressed. Will finisiih the rest today.

Love the larger map. You are right, of course, it is the number of cities it tracks that takes an insane amount of time to updat. Looks to me like they are making a sequential file and rewriting the whole thing for every change. Or something like that.

I will be glad to help with the map, or anything else. In my current test, btw, (ROME) by the time I conquered Jerusalem, Persia had expanded and claimed the Templar square.... and refused to sell. Would buy the moslem relics, of course, for all the money she had.... :)
Had to go to war to get it, but it was worth it. Templar KNights rock.

The ultra huge map is gonna take some work - El Mencey did a great job but there is still much to do in order to make it compatible with the mod... placement of resources, cities and the resources required to make them grow just right plus all unit movement rates have to be adjusted and so much more... sheesh :crazyeye:

Volunteers?? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by TETurkhan
Volunteers?? :rolleyes:



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: (funny;))

Do you plan to release version 2.0 for PTW or C3C?

Hey I've just researched Military Tradition and its letting me build the Military Academy without the need to have had three armies or whatever. I do have a leader sitting in London but he's there especially so I can build an army of Cavalry! which I can do now but I didnt expect to be able to build the Academy.

Is this intended?

BTW, thanks for giving me the very best Civ3 game I have ever played!! The stupid Songhai declared war on me 2 turns ago over a dispute about why I wont give them Theology. Even after tea and biscuits around the campfire we could not come to an agreement. My 20 catapult stack of death has evolved into 20 cannon stack of death and is enroute to North Africa to deal with this insubordinance.

Cheers
Kosh

I am working through this one as Romans... A couple of interesting things have happened, but I don't think either of them are mod related. in 1600, The mod seems to be right.
The whole world has been at war with each other since about turn 30... not unusual in itself.
Early on I signed an alliance with Egypt against Israel -- the shofar warriors were becoming a real threat, and I wanted to divide her attention... it worked well -- too well. Israel walked all over Egypt, and then came back to me. But I was ready by then.
then Egypt -- from the tip of South africa-- declared war against me. About 1100 she signed France in an alliance against me -- and in the same turn, she sued me for peace!!! Not only did she not bother with the 20year rule, not even one turn....

Now I am at war with Persia -- she refused to let me have the one square I needed for Templar Knights... to I built a town in her land, and took it. War, of course. Not wanting to destroy all ribals, and so ruin any testing in later eras, I only fought defensively... enough to blunt her power, but not destroy it. After 20 turns, asked her for peace... and she gave me 95 gold (all her cash) and world map and territory map. On her turn, she moved troops into my territory -- and declared war again....
Why would she pay boot for peace, and go right back to war???
Is this just common on Emporer? Or is something triggering this insane drive to war? She can't win.. And I have not even threatened her capital .... she moved a stack of 6 pikes, 6 Immortals and an elephant into flat land... and I sent enough Templar knights to demolish it.
Egypt is at war with 6 or 8 -- I can't keep track-- and can't even get troops there. At least 12 have signed alliances against Tibet -- any most of them can't get there. Turkiye blindly sent troops across my land at Spain turn after turn, until I blocked the whole continent. then then declared peace...

Tet, I have completed the summary of suggestions for pages 1-10 and have emailed it to you. There really wasn't a lot of suggestions, but I put in some of my own.

Thread Summary Update

Pages 1-10: BobTheTerrible - DONE
Pages 11-20: Moulton - DONE
Pages 21-30: Moulton - DONE
Pages 31-40: Zabba149 - DONE
Pages 41-50: Taurendil - AWAITING

Ok so its just you left Taurendil - how is it coming along? Let me know - thanks!

TET: 70% done, expect in on sunday.

Tet, can anything be done about relations with other countries? Because diplomatic pacts are so common (mutual defense and military alliance), and wars are so frequent, inevitably every country hates you very quickly. Likewise, my advisors hate every country for "backstabbing" our "friends" who had just recently backstabbed us anyway. Is there anyway to make civilizations forgive and forget more easily, or will we always be doomed to feel the repercussions of even the most bloodless wars for thousands of years?

Well I guess the agression level for each civ could be lowered, which would make for less wars. I don't know about forgiving/forgetting more easily though.

Hi,
I have downloaded 1.93 version. How can I use the hudge map with city?

thx

sam

I tried to chart the wars and alliances, and finally gave up.
Something is happening here. Is it the sheer number of civs on the map, and nowhere to put down their settlers? Next game I try I will limit the number of civs, even though it removes some of the history, and see what happens.
I see countries like Spain, with one island city, and Celts, with one city in Sweden and one island, turn after turn they sign alliances and declare war, but they are not capable of taking any action, thus they abrogate their contract by not sending troops.
Egypt, after many turns of war with me, and never sending troops, signed Celt, and then sued for peace in the same turn.... now 12 turns later, she signs an alliance against Celt...
I will plot the civs on a graphical presentation... Visio or something, and try to track the changes and durations.
The final result is that they spend all their shields and gold on military units and alliances, and research and infrastructure goes down the tubes. At 1700, I am still building cathedrals in many cities -- my culture level is way low -- from what I normally do -- but every civ is in awe of my culture.
TET: Maybe the cost of buildings is too high in relation to the cost of units?

Originally posted by gameforchiu
Hi,
I have downloaded 1.93 version. How can I use the hudge map with city?

thx

sam

You must have PTW. You go to "load scenario" from the main screen, and choose "TETurkhan Test of Time (with cities)" and you will have the huge world map and all civs, and cities.

Do you have an estimate to when 2.0 will come out?

Originally posted by mazzz
Do you have an estimate to when 2.0 will come out?
Well i guess i am part of the TET team now i helped out with the summaries, so i'll answer this one :p
TETurkhan will do most of the work on version 2.0 in the editor of the new expansion called Conquests. I believe that expansion is expected somewhere in the 4th quarter of this year, so a rough estimate could be 1st-2nd quarter 2004.

hi Taurendil,

I have so many mails coming in - I must have missed your thread summary - could you send it to me again please?

thanks!

Lucky i kept that file :eek: ... resent it

The following is a summary of suggestions & points brought up in this thread. Please review them, and lets get as much discussion started on them as possible. The ensuing discussion will assist in the making of version 2.0

Note, that some suggestions were left out because they were impossible to implement. Others I have not listed because of certain restrictions. ;)

Special thanks goes out to BobTheTerible, Moultan, Zabba & Taurendil for compiling all of this :goodjob:



1. RESOURCE: Adding of Synthetic rubber & Pastics as a strategic resource. I tend to agree with Nder (see his quote below) - The question then becomes with what technology would these resources no longer be necessary? Why add in synthetic rubber and plastic? They are man made and can be made from common materials. Once you get to the point in the game where you would be using synthetics just remove the resource requirement to show that you can make your own resources now. - Nder
2. GAME CONCEPT: Victory Point Locations. Have Victory points in certain cities that were strategically important in history. Such as the Suez Canal, Jerusalem, Panama Canal etc.
3. UNIT: Eagle Warrior. To be given to a South American Civ, preferably the Incas.
4. UNIT: Longships. For the Vikings, comes with an earlier tech before Map Making.
5. UNIT: Desert Warriors. Given to Arabs.
6. UNIT: Longbowmen: Given to English.
7. UNIT: More variety of units for American Civs as well as Songhai, Zulu especially in the earlier eras.
8. UNIT: Cataphracts. Given to Greeks instead in place of Knights. Same also goes to Persians, have such a unit available to them before the coming of Islam.
9. UNIT: WW2 Bomber.
10. GAME CONCEPT: More Modern Era Techs. Especially around the WW2 time period.
11. UNIT: ME 262. Hardly gets enough use in the game, adding more techs (suggestion given above) will enable player more time to use this unit.
12. GAME CONCEPT: More Governments. Reedtwostep suggestion is very interesting. I can make government types that are Civ specific. I will however put this to you people. If you want more government types, go and find out all the details and submit them to me. I will make Civ specific governments if you assist me.
13. WONDER: Eiffel Tower. Improve relations with other Civs.
14. WONDER: Apollo Program. The entire world map should become revealed once built.
15. GAME CONCEPT: Government Specific Buildings. Problem with this is what happens to the wonders & improvements when a player switches governments. Otherwise this is a great suggestion.
16. UNIT: Multi-figure Units. Certain units to be multi-figure.
17. GAME CONCEPT: Start Year 4300BC instead of 5000BC.
18. MAP: Irrigation in South Italy.
19. UNIT: Eastern Orthodox Unique Units. They should have their special ones because they did not use Knights Templar.
20. GAME CONCEPT: Manual & Strategy Guild. There is a thread already up but perhaps when 2.0 comes we could come up with a thorough guide since the mod plays so different than a regular game.
21. UNIT: Stronger Crossbowmen. Currently they are too weak.
22. UNIT: Trebuchet. Before the use of a canon.
23. UNIT: War Elephants too cheap. Will consider increasing their costs.
24. UNIT: Spy or Secret Agent.
25. UNIT: Early Submarine.
26. UNIT: Steam Frigate.
27. UNIT: Grenadier. European unit between Musketman & Rifleman.
28. UNIT: V-1 Rocket, precursor to the Cruise Missile. I really like this suggestion.
29. UNIT: Canoe. Strictly for American Civs. Movement rate of only one, and cannot go beyond coastal waters.
30. WONDER: Statue of Liberty. The effects still need to be determined.
31. IMPROVEMENT: Steel Mill. The effects still need to be determined.
32. IMPROVEMENT: Radio Tower. The effects still need to be determined.
33. IMPROVEMENT: Prison. Makes less corruption and citizens happy.
34. WONDER: CNN. Global effects. The effects still need to be determined.
35. WONDER: Sphinx. The effects still need to be determined – consider there are already many Egyptian Wonders
36. MAP: Great Wall. I am debating getting rid of the Great Wall Wonder in place of it actually placing a great wall on the map across China. Actually I will do this, and place non-mobile units on the wall.
37. UNIT: Combat Engineers. Minimum Defence. Works more faster than regular engineers, however costing more to maintain.
38. RESOURCE: Wood.
39. GAME CONCEPT: DyP Meets ToT. I have already spoken about this with Kal-el, the designer of DyP. He has agreed to let me work with his mod taking components and integrating them into Test of Time. You will see bits and pieces of DyP in version 2.0
40. GAME CONCEPT: Increase Anarchy. Especially when a capital is lost – there should ensue a long period of unrest.
41. UNIT: Templar Knights really are Knights Templar. I realize this, but Templar Knights sound so much better – however for historical accuracies sake I will change it.
42. UNIT: Guerrillas. They do have hidden nationality now and can go over mountainous terrain easier. Zero Attack – solid Defence with substantial lethal bombard strength. Great suggestion D.Minky & Rasputin!
43. UNIT: Religious Units. They have all been scaled back a bit in power.
44. UNIT: Cost of Ships. Ship prices are based on modern costs. I realize however that WW2 these maybe a bit too much. In consideration of this, I will be looking to have some ww2 type naval units added. Not as powerful as modern ones, but also not as expensive.
45. MAP: Single Tile Cities invulnerable. Amphibious units will be available to most Civs enabling them to take over such cities.
46. GAME CONCEPT: Songhai’s power will be reduced.
47. GAME CONCEPT: Mutual Protection Pacts will be moved later on the tech tree. This should finally solve having contact with too many Civs very early in the game.
48. GAME CONCEPT: Wonders.Hey Tet, A possible solution to some of the Euro Power balance could be to not place the wonders from the start. Not only does it give the Euros a lot of power it isn’t historically accurate. And we all know that the goal of this mod is historical accuracy. I know that you want the Wonders to be built in the proper cities and I have a way for that to happen without pre-placing them.
1) Make a new resource for each city that you want a wonder to be built in, e.g. Resource Rome, Resource, Alexandria, Resource Athens, etc.
2) Place these “City Resources” under each corresponding city
3) Make the appropriate Wonders require said “City Resource” be within the city radius in order to be built.
4) Now those wonders will only be able to be built in the city of your choosing.
I recommend that you then lower the costs of each wonder so that they can be built rather quickly by even the lowliest city. Otherwise you will see the AI spending inordinate amounts of time building the wonders when they should be building other things. - Kal-el
49. UNIT: Privateers. Will not be able to capture other ships etc.
50. GAME CONCEPT: Gold for Units. Cashing in units for gold. A great idea that I will look into
51. GAME CONCEPT: Spork’s Observations. There is extensive work being done to give Europe new improvements, techs, resources etc. This will facilitate their rise to prominence during the age of exploration and through out the Industrial age. The weaknesses of the AI have been noted and measures are being taken now to alleviate them.
52. GAME CONCEPT: High Research Costs. The AI will always place a lot of commerce into research, even if it would still take the maximum time. I will make sure that even 20% tech rate will make a dent
53. GAME CONCEPT: Diseases. Spork makes a great suggestion here. I ask that someone go through history and find out whenever there were plagues etc. This search should not be limited to Europe but the entire world. Americas when they were discovered by Europeans etc. I need to know the time it took place, the amount of people that perished etc.
54. ADVANCE: Early Seafaring. Something before map making for Civs like the Vikings.
55. GAME CONCEPT: Map Trading. Will not be available until astronomy.
56. RESOURCE: Copper. I want to know what this would be used for before adding it to the game.
57. UNIT: Archer Bombard Strength. To be given to units that uses some sort of missile weapon. Such as - Babylonian Bowmen, Archers (and all their replacements)
Longbowmen (and all their replacements - but not berserks)
Guerillas

56. Copper: is used with tin when making bronze, the ratio was something like 7 units of copper and 1 unit of tin. In the bronze age copper was very common material, but tin was very hard to find (usually found in the river bases). So in this light the tin would be more suitable as a strategic resource.

On the other hand, copper could be used as a luxury resource. Copper is used to make jewelry, kitchen utilities and electrical chords. ;)

You must have PTW. You go to "load scenario" from the main screen, and choose "TETurkhan Test of Time (with cities)" and you will have the huge world map and all civs, and cities

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thx
I already have PTW and load the game. It shows the orginial map with city in 1.7 version of Teturkhan.

How can I play the big map (362x 362) with city?

Tet, Conquests will have trebuchets included with it. Also do you think you will be adding in the new Conquests civs if its possible?

Another suggestion: For early ranged units like archersa, you can give them a Bombard rating of 2 and a range of 0, so that if archers are in a stack of units they will get the "Free shot" thing that cannons get when their stack is attacked. So having archers to support your stack would greatly help on defense.

Also how about a Coastal Gun emplacement or something. It would have like one move and two or three range and have lethal naval bombard. Also what about adding Howitzers for the Germans?

12, 13, and 36 can't be done. That is unless you know something about Conquests that you shouldn't be telling us. :D

Why can't 36 be done?

Originally posted by BobTheTerrible
Another suggestion: For early ranged units like archersa, you can give them a Bombard rating of 2 and a range of 0, so that if archers are in a stack of units they will get the "Free shot" thing that cannons get when their stack is attacked. So having archers to support your stack would greatly help on defense.

I love this Idea give all ranged unit a bomber but no range. I also have a suggestion about putting America in the game, why do you make America have Iroquois UU in the beginning and make them have America UU at the end.:) therefor you have Iroquois and America in the game but they are still one civ.

1-4 The addition of all these units makes sense. I especially like the idea of the long boat. I suggest giving it a high bombardment to simulate the ability of the Vikings to wage amphibious warfare with great success.

18 This makes sense but I have no suggestions.

20 This is a must. The crossbow was a very important weapon, which is under utilized in the game because of its weakness. The latest issue of Military History as a good article on the crossbow, a very good read.

26 This would be a very solid addition.

35 Great idea. Look forward to seeing this.

45 This is a must. In the test games I have played the AI can’t handle the Songhai.

46 Amen!

47 Great Idea. Go for it.

51 As thinks are now the human player has too big of an advantage. Rather than high research added tech as in DYP is a better way of slowing tech advancement down.

New Ideas

Request from Firaxis that Barbarians can control cities. This would make the early game much more interesting and would help solve the China/India problem. What I have in mind is this. Each Civ starts with just their capital (all other cities are controlled by the Barbarians. Under Barbarian control a city will act just like an encampment and produce units every so often. If this is not possible, perhaps they could add to the editor the ability to predetermine the content of goody huts. This way you could place a goody hut were every city should be and flag it to create a city when captured. Although this would not give the “correct” name to the city every time, it would show which Civ originally controlled that city in the game.

If these solutions to the China/India problem do not work I suggest that you drop or lower the free support of units for additional cities and raise the support cost of units. By raising the support cost of units large standing armies become a drain on research and happiness. The effect of this would be that the larger an empire got, the more expensive to becomes to defend. This might also simulate the boom and bust pattern we see throughout history.

1. Synthetic rubber became widely available during WW II. I remember my father being afraid to drive during daylight, for fear the tires would fail...
Could it be keyed to the last tech in the Industrial Age? or Computers in the Modern?

9. Perhaps specifically Plastics as a tech development...this also came at the end of World War II.

14. Changing government would not change the buildings... Same thing that happens to Gov specific buildings now... they just change their name and/or use, and go on.

30-32. Steel mill is just a particular type of factory/manufacturing plant. Why a seperate improvement? Radio tower? They came as a result of electronics, and every city has one or more. Prison I like... But no one likes to live near one... Maybe they could have an area corruption effect? Put them in a small town, and that town stops growing?

39. I like this. There should be some effect from the loss of your capital...

51. I am currently making 600gold per turn... setting research to 0 since even 100% makes no dent in the 50 turns..and will for two techs. so I could have 60,000 when I get Economics and Theory of Gravity. Meanwhile, the AI is going broke. I let them get Navigation -- and promptly stole it, but almost the total AI commerce went into that effort - so they have no city improvements, since they take so long to build, and they had no cash to hurry them. Nor none to buy tech and luxuries.
But not 20%. I would suggest keep them expensive, but buyable at 80 or 90 %.

Edit:
I wil have comments on ships after I get into the modern era

I corrected the numbers - for those of you that have already posted - please make the necessary changes.

thanks!

For early ranged units like archersa, you can give them a Bombard rating of 2 and a range of 0, so that if archers are in a stack of units they will get the "Free shot" - BobTheTerrible

I am certain that units with ranged animation such as archers can fire on an enemy as they approach. I do think however they need to be fortified or possibly have a few movement points left. If this is true then having bombard may not be necessary.

did I say '36'? I of course meant 37. ;)

Originally posted by TETurkhan
I am certain that units with ranged animation such as archers can fire on an enemy as they approach. I do think however they need to be fortified or possibly have a few movement points left. If this is true then having bombard may not be necessary. I believe you are speakig of the ZOC feature that allows units to take a pot shot at a unit that moves into an adjacent square. This isn't a guaranteed thing.

What that terrible Bob is talking about is getting one free shot at any unit attacking a stack that the Archer unit is in. They only get to do this once, so if more than one unit attacks only the first will get shot at, unless of course you have more than one Archer defending the stack.

Its a very nice feature. DyP has it and it works well.

I have added this to the list - Now to determine which units to give this quality to...

give it to every unit that uses some sort of missile weapon. It represents their ability to attack the enemy as they charge to engage in close combat.

Originally posted by Nder
give it to every unit that uses some sort of missile weapon. It represents their ability to attack the enemy as they charge to engage in close combat.


I agree with you:)

Originally posted by TETurkhan
I have added this to the list - Now to determine which units to give this quality to...

Babylonian Bowmen, Archers (and all their replacements)
Longbowmen (and all their replacements - but not berserks)
Guerillas

Hi,
This mod is really good. For the version 2.0, I have some suggestion. :)

The WWII unit is really good . Lots of different tank , infant..... But could you add some new unit for modern unit like Su 27, M1A1, T90, ............... Then may be more funny in modern stage.

I know let the old tank to upgrade to different modern tank is so complex. I perfer all the WWII unit can't upgrade.

In the real world , some country also use old version weapon to against modern weapon.

:)

sam

I just got an idea! Maybe you could add a new city improvment called "Electic System" So the city could have electity? Maybe it increases commce because stores may now stay open 24/7?

i recommend as much mixture of dyp and tet as possible... ESPECIALLY with the tech tree. its probably the most effiecient method of making each era the right length historically and giving every civ the right boom/bust of power equal to history.

more specifically, in the ancient era, having so many techs to research makes it take long even at a steady 80% research rate.

one other thing, i like how in dyp, you can always count on your city at least having some decent quality of sheild production. with imporvements that increase sheilds by 25% available, even island cities can actually get work done. this is also more realisitic, because even though the terrain in which the city is located makes a huge difference in how it develops, today, cities in the middle of the dessert and mountains can be some of the most productive largest cities.
just some suggestions

Tet, I have an idea for the tin/copper dilema. You can make Spearmen, available to each civ at the start of the game, as 1/2/1. Then with the discovery of Bronze working, you can make Bronze Spearmen, 1/3/1, which of course would require copper or tin.

Originally posted by BobTheTerrible
... you can make Bronze Spearmen, 1/3/1, which of course would require copper or tin.

Thus negating the advantage of the Greek UU?

well a nornmal spearman is 1/2/1 at 2 shields
a hoplite is 2/3/1 at 2 shields
you could make the bronze spearmen 1/3/1 at 3 shields?
and plus the hoplite needs no resourses, while the bronze one would. So IMO it wiould be fair...

Or add 1 defense to everything on the defensive line from spearmen up, or something else. Also the Greeks would end up getting hoplites from the start, if spearmen were available from the start.

Anyway, I'm just trying to find a use for the tin/copper idea.

Tet-why not post those fifty-odd ideas in the first post of the thread, to be kept track of easily? You can delete 'em or, better yet, mark 'em off as they're implemented.


I don't really see the need for copper/tin... spearmen are such an important unit that you'd have to give the resource to just about every civ. What's the point? And if you give everyone this Bronze Spearmen, you'd have to adjust all the offensive units to compensate in order to maintain the current balance. It would throw off everything all the way from archers to the modern age.

its probably the most effiecient method of making each era the right length historically and giving every civ the right boom/bust of power equal to history. more specifically, in the ancient era, having so many techs to research makes it take long even at a steady 80% research rate – reedtwostep
I don’t quite follow you here, can you elaborate :confused:

one other thing, i like how in dyp, you can always count on your city at least having some decent quality of sheild production. with imporvements that increase sheilds by 25% available, even island cities can actually get work done. this is also more realisitic, because even though the terrain in which the city is located makes a huge difference in how it develops, today, cities in the middle of the dessert and mountains can be some of the most productive largest cities. – reedtwostep
It is important to increase over all production for all cities especially when considering the cost of modern units. However, there is one thing you need to keep in mind. Test of Time is aimed at recreating history, and thus its imperative to limit some cities and facilitate the growth and production of others. Take for example population of cities in the mod – resources are placed in around cities in an effort to duplicate the actual real life population of that city in history and modern times. When you think about it, this approach is somewhat tunnelled, and instead of enabling any city on the map to growth and expand –it ensures the same ones will time after time. The city version of the mod could be called the historical version cause that is its primary aim – to recreate history. The World map without cities however is one where I high recommend players change things up, redistribute resources, and replace Civ Start Positions etc. The Just Mod version (random map) is the only one where I can see your suggestion well suited for and something I will consider :)

The discussion is good so far – keep the suggestions coming!
:goodjob:

I should mention though, one area I could use some ideas on is in helping initiate the bust of certain civilizations - a way to facilitate their decline?

I don't quite follow

He means instead of having a few techs worth a lot(to research), have many techs worth a little(to research). So instead of waiting 50 turns for a tech, you wait 20 turns to get one, but have more overall tach to research.

Ray, try this to help facilitate the decline of a civ.

Right now you have civs with uber units during their golden age, right? What about just making sure that after a certain point everybody else has better units than that civ’s best unit during its golden age and that the declining civs next unit in line is worse than anybody else’s, or they just don’t get to upgrade their UU’s until two or three units have been developed.

Another option is to try and use governments to some how facilitate this, but I haven’t thought that through to completion. You could start Babylon and Egypt off with an early form of Monarchy and everybody else is stuck in Despotism. Then Greece gets Democracy, and Persia gets its own form of Monarchy better than the Babylonian and Egyptian models and nobody else gets either of these until later so they are all stuck in Despotism except Babylon and Egypt which are still in their Monarchies, then Rome gets Republic which is better than Democracy but everybody else is still stuck in Despotism, but then the Byzantines step in and they get a new form of government better than Republic, and then, and then, and then, etc. etc.

Meanwhile over in Asia, China starts off with Monarchy, and then you take it from there. Same thing over in the Americas. Just keep each civ from hitting a decent government until a certain point and then after a certain point make sure certain other civs have an opportunity to jump to a better government while holding back some other civs.

Not sure if it will work, but it might be worth developing further.

Hi Kalel – thanks for your input!

I looked over your suggestions and here are my thoughts on them…

To actually make a dent meaning to affect the game in any significant manner, there would have to be a sizable variance in units stats or government types (the benefits). This could be done but then the next Civ you want to encourage to grow etc would have to have that much better a government than the previous Civs who expanded. There are many Civs through history that have risen and fell, to come up with enough government types or units in the fashion you speak of could be possible – but by doing so the unit stats would be maxed out as would the government benefits.

Hope that made sense :)

yeah, like I said, don't know how well it wouild work, but maybe the two in conjunction with each other, and along with some other as yet unsuggested ideas, it may work.

Originally posted by TETurkhan
on my map there is a thick border line running across this area you are speaking of which makes it difficult to see... I looked at it closely but haven't noticed any large moutains... by large I mean over 2000 meters high...

if you can indicate to me where such moutain of this height exist I will put them in for the next update :)...


I live in Spain, and be sure there are many mountains all along Pirineos with mountains larger than 2000 m and 3000 metres ! ;)

Tet's list of proposed changes looks great - those are very ambitious but important improvements.

About the question of declining cultures: I like the idea of disease/plague, as mentioned on the list. Half-jokingly, I suggested the possibility of a dark age, as a mirror-image of the golden age. One way to implement it would be with a civ-specific dark-age government which stifles commerce, production and happiness for 20 turns or so. The onset conditions for the dark age might be very specific, so for example, Spain's dark age might come with England's discovery of Astronomy, and Rome's dark age might come with Monotheism, provided that they control at least 8 cities at this point (no reason to knock them down if they're not a proper empire). Of course, I bet the editor won't allow complex onset conditions like this one. If something like this is possible, I think it's worth taking a half-serious look at it.

PS: Sorry about my MIA - I got very busy... Might not be able to play-test until a 2.0RC comes out.

Ey these are a good Idea! Disease, plagues, Dark Ages... But I'll prefer not to relate a Dark Age with the discoveries of other civilizations. I prefer start a Dark Age after loosing many power in only a few turns... Really, Spanish Dark Age comes with loosing la "Gran Armada" against England, not because they discovered astronomy! )
What do you think?

Originally posted by Keith Larson
If these solutions to the China/India problem do not work I suggest that you drop or lower the free support of units for additional cities and raise the support cost of units. By raising the support cost of units large standing armies become a drain on research and happiness. The effect of this would be that the larger an empire got, the more expensive to becomes to defend. This might also simulate the boom and bust pattern we see throughout history.

This suggestion from Keith seems to have passed almost unnoticed, but i believe it is a brilliant idea. This might effectively solve the problem with civs getting too big when they get their Unique/Religious Unit. Suppose, for example, that the first 20 units require no upkeep. Having town, cities and metros gives no free units, or very little. Every surplus unit costs quite severe upkeep, maybe 2 in monarchy/communism and 4-5 in republic/democracy. Very large empires would suddenly find it hard to defend their territory, let alone fight a war abroad. This would probably cost large AI empires vast amounts of money, slowing their tech rate. No longer would every tech be discovered first by China or India. Another step forwards for realism. This technique would ofcourse require every unit to cost upkeep. Having free upkeep unique units would really mess this system up big time.

Are you suggesting that we try to keep the AI (and the human) from running a world conquering campaign? IE, make it too difficult to win by conquest or domination?
As Rome, I have pretty much the Roman Empire of 44 BC -- Carthage, Egypt, Levant, Asia Minor, Greece and all Gaul. My army is reaally too large, and costs too much to maintain. But it grew largely in response to constant AI threat on all sides.With this much territory, I have to maintain troops at all borders -- it takes too long to cross (5 or 6 turns). The Ai has stayed at war with each other the whole game, and usually someone plus their allies are at war with me. No country has grown large enough to maintain a large standing army (but me), and I have done nothing to impede civs outside my territory. Russia is a nothing power. Turks have invaded 3 times, and I just turn them back.
No AI has a large army, they just keep attacking in 2's and 3's -- and losing them. Unless someone does finally grow, no civ has the possibility of conquering this world. Several have tech equal to mine, so the space race is possible. the UN is possible. Since the AI spends all its income on tech and armies, I will probably win by culture, by default--not my goal.
In this game no civ has enough units to fear additional maintenance. There is no unsettled territory except Australia.

Many people have reported different observations Moulton. In almost every game some nation seems to conquer most of the world, sometimes it's China, sometimes the Turks and as it was in my last game, the Indians. I'm sure you remember Spork's posts where he tells the story of conquering most of the world in no time as the Romans, largely due to his legions being cheap to build and costing no upkeep.

I would hate to see the AI 'free unit' costs decreased.

Already the mod playes like a vanilla Monarch game on Deity. Please don't do anything to make it even easier for the human.

I did not mean to make it easier for the human.... far from that. I have to large an army, and it costs me too much for upkeep -- not because the cost is too high, but because I built too many. Looks like I am being charged maintenance for legions as well as other units... and I should be. I have read the reports of AI civs overrunning the world, especially China and India, but in 3 games (yes, 3 is not many, but it takes weeks per game) it has not happened to me. Maybe I let my empire grow too large, and unduly restrict the free flow of the AI. After all, my goal is not to win, but to test gameplay.
The difficulties I see at this point, is that infrastructure costs too much in relation to military units, and the AI has no place to plant its settlers, which it is required to build.
Since I have never played at this level before -- was just beginning to master Monarch when I came to this -- maybe continuous war is common at diety. But it looks to me like the AI spends far too much of its resouerces on war, and their infrastructure and research suffers. I took tech lead with Engineering -- with research at 0, one citizen scientist. Maybe if a civ gets a lucky break and expands its territory so as to have a large economic base, it gets ahead of the curve, and takes the rest of the world.

I would not want maintenance costs decreased, but would be leary of making them too high. if we make them high enough to PREVENT a large empire, then we eliminate a possible goal.

Mind, I have limited myself to the empire size as it is-- 41 cities--and this may be too large. I do have cathedrals in all Cities, and coloseums in most. But the AI is just now building cathedrals and universities, and only a few of them. I think maybe if the building cost were less in comparison to unit cost, AI would build up more, and fight less.

Some input-

If you were to make goverments for the "fall" of civs, then it wouldn't be completely balanced. The player of course wouldn't choose these goverments because he or she knows that they are bad. The idea of a Dark Age is a good one IMO, perhaps someone could contact Firaxis(Atari?) about it. Or it might be implemented with the so-called "improved editor" Conquests boasts about.

I think the idea is to make a government that is better than the contemporary governments, and the rising civ is the only one that gets that, but then when its time for that civ to fall all the other civs get a government that's even better. So, it is in the players best interest to get into the good government as soon as they can, but then they have to ride out the storm while everyone else gets access to a government that's even better.

Its sort of like the ruling party holding on too long while everybody else is moving into more progressive forms of government.

Sorry, I thought the idea was to (example) give Rome a government in about the 400 AD era where it would be worse than everyone else.

Good idea but for 31 civs thats alot of governments, and alot of work to.;)

I assume that some civs would double up on the governments.

So, for example we have Civs A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, and J

and we have governments 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10

game starts:
B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, and J are in government 1
A is in government 2
several turns pass:
B and C get access to government 2
several turns pass:
D, E, F, G, H, I, and J
get access to government 3
several turns pass:
D gets access to government 4
A gets access to government 3
several turns pass:
C gets access to government 3
A, B, E, F, G, H, I, and J get access to government 5
several turns pass:
E gets access to government 6
several turns pass:
F gets access to government 6
C gets access to government 5
several turns pass:
A, B, C, D, G, H, I, and J get access to government 7
several turns pass:
G gets access to government 8
several turns pass:
A, B, C, D, E, F, H, I, and J get access to government 9
several turns pass:
A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, and J all get access to government 10


Something like that.

Well I guess that makes sense.:)

The variance in benefits provided by each government has to be substantial enough from one another otherwise it will not make an impact. If the aim here was merely to add 10 governments each with a slight benefit over the previous then no problem, but what we are aiming to do here is create such a difference that it results in a dramatic decline for a particular Civ. Consider if there were 10 levels/types of government – each level/type would have to be considerably advanced than the preceding one. Let’s say double in order to ensure it will make a dent in the game. 10 levels/types of government, meaning that the level 10 government would be 512 times better than the level 1 government. That’s insane.

One way to get around it is to have a “fall” government specific to that Civ. While everyone else has the government of the times – the Civ that we want to push into decline has to make due with a different less efficient version of the same type of government. Then we can add in units in the mix – Units can be used as they are now to bring on the rise of certain Civs. This rise with units and fall with governments could work but there are a few key concerns.

• The AI seldom grasps such intricate concepts.
• The government types will play an insanely huge factor in how the game turns out – with the ladder types of government being over 500 times better than earlier ones.
• In the chart below, a Unique Unit (UU) indicates the rise of a certain Civ. It is when a Civ enters into its golden age. The stats for unique units are adjusted according to the historical impact of that particular Civ. As with all units UU will also become obsolete with the discovery of a certain tech and thus upgraded or disbanded. Problem is AI does this without hesitation where the human player holds off – prolonging the units function. The way to get around this would be to follow the government concept but that kind of variance based on game play rather than realism will result in extremely exaggerated unit stats. The chart below could also be used to demonstrate how high unit stats could get.

Chart is below - under Moulton's post...

Thinking out loud. What causes governments to decline? It is not so much that a better government comes along... although that might work as a game tool to simulate change. If could make corruprtion grow over time, and provide something in the way of improvement ... So if they do not build courhouses, corruption goes up exponentially. or perhaps only doubles once. or doubles every 200 turns or so. After courthouses and police stations, then add GeriatricHospitals or something. If they don't keep up on social engineering, the empire will collaps eventually. As they did.

(I edited my previous post - highlighting some additional points)

Question- How are you going to work this, so that Rome can't get Feudalism, or Babylon can't get monarchy/republic? I mean, if you do something like create an Era:NONE tech and put it as a starting tech, can't civs trade it around with each other? Am I making any sense at all?

You might not be able to force civs into an inferior governement to ensure their fall, but you can deny them a powerful army. Take the classic example of Rome: in their ruling age they will build hundreds of legionaries, and hopefully if it's an AI, will conquer quite a bit of land. A while later, around when we want the Roman empire to crumble, better units are discovered: pikemen, longbows, all forms of knights. Now if we don't allow Rome to build any of these units, things could get interesting. Perhaps we could even deny them musketmen, to ensure that their 'Dark age' lasts long enough for other AI's to take much of their territory.
Ofcourse we don't want Rome to be totally obliterated during this period, but that is where my last suggestion comes in. Using that system of many free units + high upkeep should make small territories heavilly defended, and attacking forces relatively small.
I don't exactly know how these changes would affect the AI's playing styles, but i don't see how they would make it easier on the human player. He is usually the one with the largest empire anyway.

How about this for decline of empires?

To bring about the decline give each Civ a UU that more or less sucks. Have it be a diseased soldier or low moral, whatever, just give it high cost and lower stats. To keep the civ from making other units make all the older ones obsolete at this point. Then at a certain point they can get better units and upgrade them all.

what if this more or less "sucky" UU the upgrade of the original UU.

for instance... legionaries upgrade to a "degraded" legionary unit once X tech is discovered. the same with war chariots and kazers... whatever. maybe the AI would fall for it, and definately not the human, but isnt the decline of the AI empire what we are looking for? the human is there to change history, so isnt engineering the fall of the roman AI more important?

food for thought at least

Interesting discussion - but I think it's showing that there is no obvious and fair-sounding way to engineer the decline of large empires. Tet has a lot on his plate already. Maybe this is just asking too much.

As far as I'm concerned, the most important reason for wanting to break down huge empires is not to prevent AI conquest but rather unhindered human domination. For this reason, "degraded" AI units will only make the problem worse.

As a matter of historical fact, continent-scale empires break down through a process of secession: a chunk of the empire declares its independence from the empire's capital. There is absolutely no mechanism in Civ3 to simulate that - the closest analogue would be to institute a brief (5-turn) era where outlying cities have a 10X probability of culture-flipping. Again, I don't know the limitations of the editor and I suspect this is unbuildable, but it might be interesting.

A different sort of solution would be to have an era where all units cost 5 gold each to upkeep. That would quickly bankrupt states who run huge armies of occupation, and their troops would start dying out. Of course, a state like that would just send their expensive soldiers to their deaths in a massive war, and that might not really improve anything. Yeah, this is a hard problem that we probably shouldn't expect Tet to solve.

I would prefer that the focus be on the prevention of easily-acquired, gigantic empires, such as a united Europe. Improvements in this will hopefully make empire-breaking a less urgent matter.

maybe this is where that idea of "european walls" and different imrovements around europe to help maintain each civ's original cities should come in... rather than mess with uu's, govs and such

Hello TETurkhan... let me sya this is a very instetrsting and worked map.. but I had a complain. When I was playing as Incas in the world map.. well, as you know there is a lot of jungle, and, if the world map if you want to build a city it must be placed in grassland or plains, so... why did you put so high the working-rate for cleanig the jungle for the Incas??.. I know they never expanded in jungle (because I'm peruvian, as u can see), but this little thing makes me go out of the game and try the mod.

So, please, could you tell me how to low the clean-jungle rate??... because I think it's a little unfair for them.

Except of this, I think your mod is one of the best I've seen before.

Best wishes.

The Slayer

P.d. = if you are going to answer me, please send me an e-mail to: eapanitz (a) hotmail (.) com . Thks:goodjob:

I emailed a reply to The Slayer, as i know how busy TETurkhan is working to still improve on the mod :D . Here's how it went...

The aim of the TETurkhan mod is to recreate the world's history as close as possible, leaving some room for the human player to change the course of history. You say the Inca's never expanded into the jungle in real life. If TET's mod made it very difficult to do just that, then he has done a good job. Workers take ages to clear jungles, and quite long to clear forests too in fact, because clearing the size of a map tile in real life would take an enourmous effort. While practically impossible in the ancient age, it is quite do-able later in the game, if you commit a lot of workers to it. Again, this sounds very realistic to me.
Keep in mind that the TET mod does not give equal chance to all nations. In fact the Inca's will have a very hard time growing as powerful as the rest of the world, and they are bound to be backward by the time the America's are discovered by the rest of the world. If you don't feel comfortable playing such a role, that's perfectly understandable. Perhaps you should try playing a different nation. Be wary of the very large ones, or wonder-full Egypt, because they might make the game too easy for you.

Thks for answer me so quickly... yes, perhaps you are right.. but, at least.. I suggest one thing.. allow the incas to build cities anywhere (hills, deserts and jungles) because 2 things:

1) In their territory, there is just a few grasslands to settle
2) Historicaly, the Incas have settlements in deserts (Chan-Chan, for example), in hills (almost all their cities... Cuzco, Cajamarca, etc) and also a few that their conquered in the jungle.

So, at least give me that wish.. ;).. thank you.

Originally posted by The Slayer
2) Historicaly, the Incas have settlements in deserts (Chan-Chan, for example), in hills (almost all their cities... Cuzco, Cajamarca, etc) and also a few that their conquered in the jungle.I like this idea, it makes some historical sense too.

Very good idea but you are not able to:(

btw you can build cities on hills.

Great mod TETurkhan but my only complaint is India and China get way too powerful, and china ends up building all the wonders.
Witch I might add, is not historically accurate. maybe if there is a
way too make the Mongols suddenly get more powerful around 1100AD so they could build there horde up and invade china like
they did in history it cold balance this out but I dont know how too do this without making them too strong early in the game.

Originally posted by Bobisback
Very good idea but you are not able to:(

btw you can build cities on hills. Why ever not? Create a new settler unit that can settle in jungles, etc, then give it to the Incas...

Originally posted by anarres
Why ever not? Create a new settler unit that can settle in jungles, etc, then give it to the Incas...


Yes you could do the that but then he would have to check the allow city box for that terrain then all the settlers could settle and to fix this you would have to make all the settlers except the Incas settler impassable to that terrain then that would cause aother problem now all the settlers could not go over jungles, etc.
then any of the civs could just put a road on the jungle and build a city there so this works to a certain extent but makes it so everybody can build cities everywhere.

Ahh, I didn't realise the switch for settling on types of terrain was associated with terrain in the editor. I had assumed it would be associated with the units instead. :sad:

I had this simple idea a week or so ago and have been toying with it a bit...

Here it is: Give the city of Amsterdam to Spain.

The Netherlands were controlled by Spain for quite a long time, after all-Belgium even longer. I don't know that Germany EVER controlled it except before the nation of The Netherlands even existed.

I see no real harm to Germany... they still have a seacoast.
As for Spain, it gives them a few extra contacts right away-and they certainly *did* have contact with Western Europe early on.

(Amusingly, in my current game as Greece, Rome took all of the Carthaginian cities in Spain-never seen 'em do that before, but it was historically accurate! Of course, Germany conquered Tbilisi from Persia... this is the ancient age, for heaven's sake! And... as Greece, I can't seem to muster enough swordsmen to avenge the egregious wrong Persia committed in razing Trebizond... they shall die, for I am Alexander!)

Er... yeah, ignore my tale and heed my idea instead. ;)

I started to play the 1.93 version. The mode is wonderful. I could see, as I played that earth history is like recreated there, I am not maybe very knowledgable about that, but Scandinavia did visit Americas quite early in galleys, and England did establish a colony in North America some time later. I liked that. Maybe the only thing that is strange, is all those western european nations going east so far in asia, and making colonies in Sibiria - i thought Russians, Mongols only there would be better - but - this is just AI......... :)
the comp i am playing it is not that fast - athlon around 1 GHz. After year 1000 AD my turns are like 3 or 4 minutes. One way to speed it up is to choose less civs, but also using smaller than around 250x250 map could help. Has ayone experiment with smaller map? I mean the map of earth, not randomly generated from (just mod) version?

Originally posted by mart777
the comp i am playing it is not that fast - athlon around 1 GHz. After year 1000 AD my turns are like 3 or 4 minutes.

I have 900 mhz celeron processor, and in about 0 AD the turns get to the 5-minute mark. I read in between my turns.

Tet is currently working to speed up the mod, and its final version it will have a small (and an ultra-giga huge) map.

As of yet, I haven't tried the city/world map versions of 1.93. I mostly play random maps, but to me the "deformaties" in history such as Poland conquering Germany is what makes the mod fun to me.

The mod will actually only be on a ultra huge world map - yet it is twice as fast. ;)

Originally posted by TETurkhan
The mod will actually only be on a ultra huge world map - yet it is twice as fast. ;)

Well I figured that since you call the current size "giga," then the next step up would be "ultra-giga."

Anyway what have you done to speed things up? Less cities?Less civs?

Less cities is the ticket - this increased space between cities out also prevents resources from one city going to another...

You are right Bob - the mod is now on a new ultra-giga world map :)

Yes, I have noticed that having less cities helps a lot. Already not being able to make cities in tundra or on desert allowed to decrease time between turns. I know that actually also wars make turns longer - movement of units and their fights between computer player take more time. when computers do not fight each other turns are much faster. Unit upkeep is now 2 gold, would making it even higher make AI to manufacture significantly less such as to see faster turns? Well, 5 minutes is not so bad, i remember i played some large map in original civ 3 release and got turns 30 - 40 minutes .........
I think that present number of cities allow to achieve good timing for technologies for develop, my middle ages were in right time. I played the version without starting cities, just created all of them. Europe was not so crowded.

Sorry, I forgot to tell you something... why the UU of the Incas is the same of the Aztecs??.. there isn't another unit over there??.. I don't know... a shaman, an andinian warrior (treats mountanous and hills as grasslands - like alpine troops), or another one.

Thks for the attention gived!!:goodjob:

Where can a person get the new ultra-giga map for ToT? I have found El-mer's but it does not haved the ToT resources.

Its not released yet, I think Tet is doing this as part of version 2 which will be released after conquests is available.

You can't. It isn't done yet. ;) I presume that it shall be used for version 2.0.

Here's an idea that came upon me in the car -- I don't know how feasible it is, though. Anyway, here goes:

To solve the problem of certain civs getting too powerful (Rome, China) when in fact they had numerous Dark Ages though history, why not make insurgences of barbarians?

Say in 350 AD, barbarian activity in Europe increases. By 400 AD, it is even more, and by 500 AD, it's enough to topple whatever big civ controls most of Europe by then. That will certainly turn the tides and end the supremacy of the Legionary. Same thing can happen in the 1100's in the Middle East to stop the advances of the Holy Ghazi Warriors (there were historical barbarians at that time). Same thing with the 1200s in India, and all throughout Chinese history.

That's the basic idea, I wonder if this can be done?

Great idea, but unfortuately there is no way to do this... I've been to the editor often and there is no way to increase activity.

I think you can do it I do not no if it is time related but TETurkhan has done it, example in TETurkhan's mod some where around 300 BC and 300 AD there is huge rushes of barbarians, we are talking about 30 swordmen per barbarian camp. (if you have barbarian activity really high) I have had this happen with all of TETurkhan's map (just mod, world map with cities and world map without cities) but I play original civ 3 PTW this does not happen. maybe TETurkhan can let use no;)


Btw I think you should make the barbarians more powerful

Well when the first person reaches the midieval age, there is a massive uprising in all barabrian camps. Is this what your talking about?

yeah, that is a Civ3 feature. It was meant to represent this very thing, but they made the barbarians too weak to have any real impact on the game.

Okay, now I'm not very proficient with the editor, and I really can't say I know much about it's limitations, but I read in the latest patch something that seemed to imply different tech trees for different civs in the same game. Is this really possible?

If it is, think of the implications... A lot of what is currently happening in the mod could be accomplished in a slightly different, but more interesting way by adjusting the tech trees for certain civs.

It could be timed so Islamic countries don't get Monotheism until 600 AD, and Christian countries don't get it until 350 AD.

Certain civs could skip polytheism completely (Israel), some could skip monotheim completely. It could just not exist on their tree at all.

The Americas could skip a lot of the techs they never discovered on their own. Feudalism, Republic, Monotheism, Gunpowder, Chivalry, etc. could all be removed from their tech tree. When discovered by whomever discovers them, they could resume trading for more modern techs (Military Tradition). This would make them catch up to the other civs much faster than normal, giving them a better chance to survive (or rewrite history) in the more modern times. As it stands, the Americas definately research slowly, but it takes too much work for them to catch up -- they usually don't even have polytheism or currency by the time they are discovered, and it is way too easy to just conquer them. They should be allowed a fighting chance to catch up. (Now I know you can point out that the Incans and Aztecs really did not catch up in real history, but the North Americans did. Even in the late 19th century, Native Americans were putting up one hell of a fight against the white Americans -- the big reason they were nearly annihalated being the sheer population difference between the white Americans and Native Americans.)

Same thing goes for the Zulu -- they may have been eventually defeated, but they were quick to modernize. The way Tet's mod currently functions, there is little chance for these extremely backwards civilizations to modernize and join the rest of the world.

There are, of course, huge other implications of this is true. I'm really sorry if I'm just a fool and misunderstood the meaning in the statement about tech trees. But if it is possible, do you think there is any chance of this working?

I was about to mention that last night, but I couldn't find this thread. Each civ could have specific techs for governements and stuff. And that civ can't trade the tech around with another civ that doesn't have it in the tree. It could get very useful.

And, to simulate a dark age, you could make their techs in that era very expencive, so everyone else can catch up.

GREAT IDEA D. Minky!!!!!! as shortej pionted out we can simulate a dark ages and as D. Minky pionted out we can make all the backwards civilizations catch up in modern times. As BobTheTerrible said we can give civ specific governements and other things. the cool part is that it is poissble with the current editor:)

Wow, I'm so glad that's possible. It always kind of bugged me the way that Civ has a generic tech progression for every civ, especially when China had invented gunpowder and the printing press long before Europe began using them (though they didn't have the techniques perfected as far as Europe did). Also that Polytheism comes so far before Monotheism, when some civilizations (Israel, Egypt) had monotheism long before the Common Era.

This also makes it possible (one of my very big hopes) to lower the cost of technology so that it's actually functional to use the technology/tax slider. If different civs have different tech trees, then they will only be able to trade with other civs for techs that are on both of their trees. This would slow down the rate of tech exchange between civs, thus making it possible to lower the cost of tech. I've always been a little disappointed that even though I have so many cities and I make so much gold per turn, I still can't get less that 50 turns for a tech.

One question, are the bowmen supposed to start the golden era for Arabs? I was QUITE surprised in a bad way last turn... Thinking about restarting a game even, tho things are going well so i shouldnt actually need to...

BTW, Excellent mod. Exactly as good as DyP but in another way.

I finally reached the point where I could research a tech -- about the middle of the middle ages. I am about a century behind where I should be, in history. Researching Coporation in the middle of the 20th century. Fortunately, with all the warring going on, I can pretty well count on getting GL's to haste the wonders...

Civ-specific research is not possible.

It is with the new patch.

I have a question. With the First vrsion that came with wanilla PTW, the diplo-screen was far too dark. Has this been fixed?

Originally posted by Moulton
I finally reached the point where I could research a tech

Yeah I reached that too. I actually sped up research on Democracy and Magnetism to realistic speeds, but for some reason, even with 200 gold per turn tributes from the other civs (I was making 500 gold per turn on 100% tech), Theory of Gravity still is taking me 50 turns. It's 1939 and I'm not even in the industrial age yet... :eek:

While playing 1.93 Map+Cities, I suddenly wondered: Why would annyone research Music Theory?

JS Bach's Cathetdral is allready in Berlin when the game starts, and Music Theory only gives acces to this wonder.

Thats a good point :)

However in 2.0 the wonders are not pre-placed. Instead they get built by the apropriate Civ (historically accurate) around the right time they were in history.

Have any of your maps all the units available without any other rules changed? I mean, no new civs, no new resources or the new resources with modest values?

Originally posted by BobTheTerrible
It is with the new patch.

I'm overjoyed to be wrong! Very cool! Do you know if Tet is planning on taking advantage of this?

Originally posted by thestonesfan


I'm overjoyed to be wrong! Very cool! Do you know if Tet is planning on taking advantage of this?


I am reasoning with him right now he has not answered me back on that idea though.

Originally posted by thestonesfan


I'm overjoyed to be wrong! Very cool! Do you know if Tet is planning on taking advantage of this?

That's what started this whole thing about using the individual civs tech tree.

Hello TeTurkhan. I really like your mod. But I like also DyP. So a couple of weeks ago, I decided to join together the two mods, and add some flavour units or graphics from here.

Now the beta version of this "new mod" is finished, so I want your "permission/authorisation" to use formally your mod into mine.

I've already talked with Kal-el, and he agreed. He told me I have to include his credits, so I suppose is going the same with you.

I hope you can agree too, so I can realise this first version in Poly (I hope)

Yours faithfully

The Slayer

*mouth begins waterring profusely*

Originally posted by TETurkhan
However in 2.0 the wonders are not pre-placed.

That's good to know.

I completed my game with v1.93.
I lost in 1991 to England, which easily achived cultural victory because of palace, Shakespeare's Theater and Newton's University beeing there from the beginning accumulated to 20.000 cultur points in London.

The big three were Arabia, Abyssinia (myself, north africa and western europe) and India. China was destroyed in the very beginning. :-)

I found no bugs.

But because of the wonders, it was to easy even on good level:
Are you in need of groth? Get Memphis with the pyramids. Need tech? Go to Alexandria and get the Great Library.

TET, I have down loaded your Mods, they look great, however they have been crashing. The Extra units appear to be crashing the program. I tried to import the "Mod Only" Package onto the El Mency giga map. Again it seems that the extra units and wonders are crashing. How does one correct this problem?

TET, I have down loaded your Mods, they look great, however they have been crashing. The Extra units appear to be crashing the program. I tried to import the "Mod Only" Package onto the El Mency giga map. Again it seems that the extra units and wonders are crashing. How does one correct this problem?

Over this past year many people have asked me to approve certain projects that would be derived from the Test of Time Mod in some shape or form. I appreciate that people would want to use the Test of Time, however the fact is many of the proposed scenarios are already being undertaken.

Test of Time is a historical based scenario and its aim is to recreate history. If a person wants to take elements of Test of Time and make a completely new themed scenario – then I am totally for it. However, if the proposal is aimed at doing something already being worked on, then I cannot endorse it nor do I have the time to offer my support and assistance on such similar projects. I suggest that people create new and different type scenarios, however if what you are aiming is similar to what we here are working on then why not consider coming aboard and assisting with Test of Time 2.0. It is incredably huge in scope, and though I don’t want to divulge details I can say, when it is posted it will set a new standard for scenario making - something that you could be a part of.

So to summarize:

Make a new scenario with unique theme – would be the best route to go!
Make a mimic of Test of Time or undertake or one which is similar to what is already being worked on then I am afraid I cannot support it.

Originally posted by TETurkhan
Test of Time is a historical based scenario and its aim is to recreate history. If a person wants to take elements of Test of Time and make a completely new themed scenario – then I am totally for it. However, if the proposal is aimed at doing something already being worked on, then I cannot endorse it nor do I have the time to offer my support and assistance on such similar projects.

Well, as I said before, my mod combines yours and Kal-el's DyP. Now I just finished it and the last version of DyP appeared. Now my mod is very similar to the last one, expect it have the same civs. as your mod, and also the same asian "flavour" units, leaderheads, and new graphics (like different roads, mountains, barbarian camps, b. ships (pirates), radar stations and so on ).

So I just wanted our "check" to use them out :b: :D

I suggest that people create new and different type scenarios, however if what you are aiming is similar to what we here are working on then why not consider coming aboard and assisting with Test of Time 2.0. It is incredably huge in scope, and though I don’t want to divulge details I can say, when it is posted it will set a new standard for scenario making - something that you could be a part of.

Sound excellent. I admire to much your job, so I want to contribute with this. :goodjob: .

Well, thanks for your answer anyway, now I can realise the beta version of my mod in the Spanish Forum there in Poly (my pals over there are helping me and I'm not very sure if Thunderfall or DanQ (Poly admin.) are going to agree to upload the full mod in their servers (about 150 MB by the fussion of these great mods.)

Now it's time to talk with them. and again, you can count with me to aid you in your mod.

:)

To the King of Kings:

Thank you for creating the best Civ3 mod ever, and for reviving the interest of a cynical and jaded player, so much so that I don't mind waiting 3-5 minutes between turns on my Pentium II 500 mHz PC.

I'm looking forward to v2.0, especially the map for the turtle pcs.

To everyone else:

I know that the focus of this awesome mod is realism, but it can get so monotonous....monotonous....monotonous....monotono us....monotonous....monotonous....when you're waiting 50 turns for a new tech.... doing nothing...

So can anyone tell me how to start this mod in the Middle Ages?

Hi Tet,

Did you know that the Tibitans have no unit capable of starting their golden age? With the techs taking as long as they do I'm not sure I want to wait for the internet to get a GA :)

>I know that the focus of this awesome mod is realism, but it can get so monotonous....monotonous....monotonous....monotono us....monotonous....monotonous....when you're waiting 50 turns for a new tech.... doing nothing...<

Actually something I was thinking about earlier was that once the new civs come in with Conquests (namely the Portuguese and Dutch) we're going to have a serious problem with overcrowding in Tet. Normally this problem is solved by Rome killing half of Europe and becoming a superpower, but of course if those Civs are eliminated from the game, they will never survive to the middle ages, when the mod specifically begins boosting Europe.

I think something needs to be done to make it possible to play this game with only 1 city. As is, with 50 turns per tech and such high shield costs for good defensive units (especially when Roman offensive units are so cheap), there is no chance for smaller civs to really hold their land. If one or two cities fall, it can mean the end of an entire European civ -- Rome taking Europe has pretty much been consistent in everyone's gave that I've heard about.

Well, if the Dutch and the Portuguese are going to be added (which I think is REALLY good, because they were major players in history) I think something needs to be modified in Tet to make it possible for 1-city civs to survive and actually function -- even wage small wars. When you think of the size of a city on a Civ3 world map, it's really the size of a small country. With high culture, a city can become the size of Texas. So it's not unreasonable to assume these 1-city civs could actually be pretty formidable.

So often I see the Hungarians and Celts reduced to one city each in central Europe, and then Egypt, Greece, and Rome (the constant 3 superpowers) destroy them. Remember that in actual history, the Celts held up pretty darn well against the Romans, and in fact held Germania and even reconquered Dacia and some other lands. I'd like to see this sort of thing possible in Tet's mod... though I don't know how it would be possible except by lowering unit costs (which in turn makes it easier for bigger civs to just wipe out the smaller civs).

So yeah, this may or may not be really possible, but I'm sure that something can be come up with(?)...

End of December

Bravo!

Just want to add a counterpoint here. To EPL: I am not sure but can't you get a golden age by a defensive victory as well? If so then warrior monks can kick that GA off TOO soon! To D.Minky...I don't have definitive data but I have two TET games gone up until industrial ages so far. In my first game as Cambodia No one nation came to power,but France germany,spain and Poland bought it.....hmmm come to think of it they died in my Incas game too. :( Rome and Greece survived intact in both but Greece was by far the bigger power then Rome in either case....In Incas game though Hungary wiped out all of Russia and Celts now own almost all of Spain and Central Europe;either of them is more powerful then Rome. I have yet to see this Mega Rome come out yet,at least in AI form. Those four civs I mentioned dieing off though,anyone else see them go out early? Tet may want to look at them. I think Hungary is in good shape because of the nice layout of their cites but who knows :)
Sasebo

Sasebo: The warrier monks and even the fanatic warrior monks don't have 'trigger GA' set in the editor so they can't trigger a Ga at all. Nor could any other unit available to the Tibitans that i could see

Some notes from an E-mail I sent TET,he requested I add it to forums so others could comment on some of the points I made,hope this is the right spot!
This is a bit of feedback from a game as Incas,Monarch level,1.70 patch? It is an interesting start,the dinos are fun(not T-rex :( ) and the Aztecs will make interesting neighbors. I have had 4 wars with Aztecs now,dragged the Iroquois in on one and Aztecs ALMOST handed us both our heads! ...much fun!
If you ever get a strategy guide going for this mod I have a few points to add here. 1.) It may be obvious but the Great Library may be THE best wonder in this game,with so many civs you get everything you need soon as you can get your contacts going. 2.)If you are playing one of the New world civs BE the one to make first contact with the other civs. I was able to send 4-5 Jags through Aztec territory before we had our...differences and had a warrior running around Nova Scotia and one along the Pacific coast when I got lucky and spotted a Japanese galley. I am not the best trader but I got full contacts,4 techs and few hundred gpt and a PILE of gold from that... I was about 1 tech ahead of the other two NW civs then and left them in my dust right there. I shudder to think of what would have happened if one of them had gotten it first. :(
I was still about 5-6 techs behind at this point which was very historically accurate. They had pikemen and I had stone axes and bearskins. Republics vs Despotism. :P I remembered someone posting on their Inca game saying they stole tech to catch up and tried this. It worked beautifully and I highly recommend being a thieving magpie as any NW civ, Even if you get caught so what? What are they going to do send an army across the oceans? I'd like to see that!
For future versions I would like to see if you could put which civs can or CAN'T build which units,I was mad angry when I got astronomy and NO BOATS! Traded horses with Turks and only then found out I don't get knights either GRRR!
I started a game with the new 1.93 patch just to see the changes in the pedia and to try Egypt since I have not played in that area of the world yet in your scenario. I have a few comments here I hope you don't mind me being a bit harsh :(
GOOD: The early contact/map trading issues seem to be fixed this will help alot with those silly AI starting wars with people on the other side of the planet. With no settlers to clog up their building I expect the AI will be a bit more ...fiesty. I have not gotten to test whether boats load horses and cannons yet will let you know when I get to that.
BAD: I understand you wanting the wonders built in the right cities but I think it will be a problem where some cities will have too much of a built in advantage towards 20k culture victory (London? Alexandria?). I saw your posts where you plan on making them available in the cities via tech/resources at the appropriate time in version 2.0 which is brilliant but see my next point... I also think you will have WAY too many wonders built in Europe and that could be very bad for balance;whoever holds Europe rules the world? Too easily anyway. I think having them able to be built anywhere is better myself and more fun since you don't know where they will end up.
I saw you made a few changes to prices for units and such in the pedia. I have no problems with those but why did you change the price for Fan. War. Monks? At 30 shields they were fine at 60 they just don't cut it. I think they are way more in balance then say 10 shield legions,and I don't have a problem with those either but then maybe I am biased. I made a post to you back on page 18? 28? of this thread on the placement of the Buddha Relics, I really think you ought to look that up and consider it. It is way too hard for anyone other then Japan/Tibet to get those; even Turkistan has a much better shot then say Cambodia/Korea which I dont think is right IMO.
I like the idea with the no early settlers/cheaper settlers for Europe it should make the middle game more exciting esp. with the power swing to Europe. I am looking forward to seeing that but my game as Incas raises some issues with that you may want to look at.
Without any settlers to get new territory you will almost certainly cripple or kill any chance of a New World civ winning a game and you almost for sure will force early full scale wars there instead,since there is no other way to expand. I don't see how the Iroquois can stand up to the Aztecs if they build their temples/barracks and come at them. Even in my monarch game they were thrashing them and I was in full scale war mode at their rear! Warriors/archers vs 10 shield Jaguar warriors? NO contest there.
Also I have all of Aztecs original cites,all my own cities, and about 12 settled ones;about 28-30 I think. I had a FP on the east coast and a bunch of cities there and on the Argentine plains with all the sheep. I had all that and I was STILL an age behind in tech at first contact! without the ability to settle some new cities early I don't see how even wiping out a neighbor and putting a FP in his territory can save you. Can that gap be closed? Maybe you can let them just keep their 300 point settlers until Navigation or for the whole game?
Some final notes... I have seen maybe one other person mention it to you besides me but have you ever thought about adjusting your terrain defense values? It is just that I find jungles/mountains to be real killers in your mod. I notice they are much closer to old civ 2 values is that where you took them from? Lots of times someone attacking my cites has better defense then my units IN the cities is that what you wanted? Lastly I am changing my vote for worst starting terrain to work with from Cambodia to Incas/Tibet :P
Sasebo

p.s.-Oh yes! I noticed that the pedia says T-Rex lived in North America and you have him in South America...can we ship him home please? :D I also noticed I got Bronze Working as Incas as a starting tech but I am not Scientific! What gives???

Great Mod tet :) the only prob is that you gave Sofia to the Hungarians :( :( :(
But i have that weird question i'm playing on deity with russia and hungaria and celts are doing pretty well, i found china( just entered the mediaval age) and Europe is pretty backward, i took over a couple of cities and entered a war with greece and here is my prob i took over some greek cities and invited persia to join the war( this is about 600BC and we are all about to enter the medieval age except the rest of europe which behind and persia actualy has about 100 units in the field not the unites in cities which are between 2 and 5 in each city and even more now my question is since they have not so big cities and not that many how they support this army? They even bought a tech and besides the 1000 they gave the pay alsoe 61gptm now this is confusing and i presume that since the mod is based on history persia will fall as europe arises from it's backwardness and rome starts waging wars. In the mean time i had to load a save 10 turns back cause i made persia declare war on me and well there is no chance to survive the 100 units they unleashed in my territory for just 2 turns. BTW same goes for the celts they have few cities very small and i have about 15 and they can support a much bigger army than me and i alraedy am paying for support about 50g for supporting my army(reached the limit long ago) that's it this is the greates mod i'm just sorry i found so late and couldn't contribute to it

Hey TET, Ive been playin your mod since the beginning and i have to ask you to do one thing for 2.0 that has yet to be corrected. Dont allow settlers until one of the later 2 eras (Industrial or Modern). The countries that always seem to have settlers settle in the open Siberia. And the Celts who have access to the Atlantic Coast through Dublin always settle in the Canaries and Azores. It would be much more realistic if you fixed this. :king:

Oh and also i would suggest allowing it through nationalism. because many nations began settling during times of great nationalism

Actually, historically speaking, a great example of early settlers being utilised very successfully were the Greeks - especially prior (beginning 750-725 BCE) and during conflict with Xerxes, Darios, et al ;) The city-states were over-burgeoning with the young and able, yet had no access to the wealth of the polis. As a result, such cities as Syrakuse and the eastern Adriatic were opened by these very people. In fact, some go so far as to suggest that such cities as Syrakuse rivalled there founding city (Korinth in this instance). So though I can understand that settlers may not be realistic for ALL civs, there are very good examples of their early use, which roughly coincides with the way the game is presently structured.

Well no, I see this as a problem as well, because in all of my games, Britain settles the Canary Islands. This shouldn't happen in 4000 BC. Thats what happens when you start some civs out with settlers. :-p

Ancient relics doesn`t show up, when i redistribute resources... :(

I believe that when you redistribute resources it doesn't necessarily give you every resource:king:

"• BIX(s) (Scenarios) THAT NEED TO BE ERASED (these are no longer compatible with the new version 1.65 & up):
1. TETurkhan.bix
2. TETurkhan Test of Time (with cities).bix
3. TETurkhan Test of Time (start position only).bix
4. TETurkhan Test of Time (Regular).bix
5. TETurkhan Test of Time (Cities).bix "

How am I then supposed to play TETurkhan map or mod when I now have 1.93? :confused:

Harr mateys! Happy International Talk Like A Pirate Day to all of ye! May the wind keep in yer sails and the constabulary off of yer tails!

Originally posted by Gravitas
I believe that when you redistribute resources it doesn't necessarily give you every resource:king:
But there`s isn`t even one relic... :(

Oops... There is... :rolleyes: It seems i just don`t looked carefully... :crazyeye:

Ok Tet, I have an idea that I've been brewing for a while, but I've decided to say it in hopes that Conquests allows more civs to be in play at one time. So here it is...

Instead of giving such enormous empires to certain civs from the first turn, why not create one big "uber-civ" called "Barbarians" or "City States" or something, and let it occupy most of the map where historically other civs moved into. Disable all units but defense for the "City States" so they can't wage offensive wars -- only defensive. Then you can give most civs only 1 city to start and allow them to conquer the city states one-by-one, making gameplay more dynamic and different each time, while still keeping it historically dependent. This will also make it take a little bit longer for the big civs like China, Egypt, and India to get so powerful (as they always do in my game).

For example, in one game France might conquer more city states than Germany, in another game Rome might conquer most of them, and all this time China will be conquering cities one-by-one until it finally has a chance to come into conflict with its neighbors. So the big civs still are big civs (keeping your historical balance) it just takes them a little bit longer.

One of the biggest advantages of this, IMO, comes if you can add more civs with the new expansion. Imagine having Sumer, Akkad, Babylon, Assyria, Hittites, Israel, Ottomans, Byzantines, and the Arabs all on the map in that little area with just one city each. Certainly most of them wouldn't survive like in real history, but it gives a chance for some more dynamic historical games.

Since the expansion is adding the Portuguese and Dutch to Europe, I think this option greatly improves game balance for Europe -- there is a good chance that individual games might see different civs rising to power, rather than the same ones 80% of the time. Since each European civ had a very major "dominant" time (1500's for the Spanish, 1600's for the Dutch, 1700's for the English), and since the game is not complex enough to allow for this dramatic of a shift in game balance, I think that giving each civ a chance to take a piece of the pie for themselves without going to war with eachother could make the game much more interesting.

Maybe China and India and Egypt start out with a few cities, and lots of City-States to conquer, while the Middle East and Europe have less City-States; they'll need to fight eachother sooner or later while China and India are still expanding with impunity.

Obviously this is only plausible if the expansion allows many more Civs to be in play, but I think that this idea gives a huge new dynamic to the game play while still remaining true to your desire to keep this mod true-to-history.

Let me know what you think! :-p

This just occurred to me as well -- if you cover the whole map in "City States" or barbarians (since historically there were very few unoccupied areas on Earth), you could even turn the option to build settlers back on. That way, when major wars level so many cities that a fertile area of land is afterwards left barren (this has happened to me in a couple of games where Russia was leveled to rubble, and there was a huge area of perfect land that could not be settled, since settlers didn't exist), civs could move in and take over.

Just another idea... I don't know how good it is.

Sorry about my prevous message, got that figured out. I just wonder...
There are a lot of people discussing relic resources and other stuff about relics. I thought the relics came with version 2.0. I certainly can't find any relics in 1.93 so I'm just a little confused (as usual by now).

Happy for help

D. Minky I Understand What Your Saying But If There Is This Great City State Civ Then We Will Automatically know of the whole world through map trading untrue to history unless TET makes maptrading come along through Navigation or Some Middle Ages Tech.

Well considering that we all know what the world looks like anyway, I think it's not such a bad sacrifice. I know I'd rather have a much more flexible game and get my map way too early than keep my screen black for longer and not have this level of variation.

I just wanted to say I d/l the mod earlier today for the first time, and just spent a hell of a lot of hours trying to catch up on the 59 pages of posts up here...I've finally decided to give up for now and go give it a try! It sounds great though and I can't wait.

The only problem with that idea is that once you are at war with the city state league/barbarians, they will send hordes of defensive units to pilliage.

Maybe give them a special unit that can't pillage? Or even units with no movement at all...

With immobile units come the problem of a gazillion city defenders. Don't get me wrong, I think it is a wonderful idea, but there are so many different ways it could be bad. I would love to see this happen. Maybe a government type that restricts units or something, and then put in immoblie units, I don't know.

Well in my experience playing so far, every city ends up with a gazillion defenders anyway... it's very frustrating. So this wouldn't really be any different than it already is.

Well imagine this. A barbarian civ who only builds units, because it has no tech for buildings. 20 shields for spears. 5 shields per turn. A spear every four turns. In 100 turns there will be 25 spears. Now I don't know if this is normal or not, because I don't play the city version of Tet's awesome map.

Yet another thing is that you could trade for the barbarian civ's gold. I mean, it's gotta get pretty rich, covering nearly the whole map and all.

I've had to cut through 15+ spearmen in many cities that I've tried to take. In any case it would be a cinch to create a "city-state spearman" with a higher cost to even out the fact that the city states can create only defense.

The gold thing could be a problem though. I don't know if it's possible to edit the AI of a civ to automatically decline any trades, or if you can make it so the barbarian civ would always declare war on everybody so no trading would be possible... Well I guess that's why I'm not a designer. :-p

in the situation you are talking about guys, i would think the emense struggle against over-whelming defenders would be fitting of the struggle to become a world-class civilization.

but heres an idea, why not just let them ( the barbarian civ) build one type of unit, a worker-class unit with minimul fighting/ defending ability, say an att. of 1, and a def. of 1, i wouldnt go above 2 on either, that way you've still got a massive civ, capable of produceing massive numbers of troops, but none worth really worrying about. and the former defenders of this city-state empire, could fuel the work-force of your own empire. also, set the unit to cost 1 population per unit, that should put a limit to how large the city-states could become (no since in letting a barbarian civ get more powerful before you can catch up). All-in-all, this might be a way to have your cake, and eat it too, lol.

by the way, all this can be done on games editor, you could even change the unit graphics from the worker to something else, if you wanted. (personally, i like to keep the worker graphics, for "slaughtering of peasant-warriors" feel. :D

Ok well after reading over this I think the simplest way to solve the problem of these city states becoming too powerful would be to make the civilization totally crippled, and in fact have it never build anything. Then we can place units of no movement and attack, just a defense type unit in all of the cities. The cities would never get too big as there will be no improvements being done to it and no work being done to the terrain around it, thus them not ever becoming cities at all really just staying as towns, with most not growing at all and some may grow a small amount, but that could be expected for certain fertile regions. The problem of wealth can be solved with setting the maintenance of the units, and we can even over estimate this thus they may lose a few units but eventually it would balance out to them earning barely no money if any at all. We can make a very basic form of government, any ideas for a name is fine, and set that as their starting government and favorite government, thus they will always be on it. Basically something with around the same stats as anarchy except not transitional so they stay in it. Thus no support for units, low worker rate, and so on. We can even make them totally non agressive, allowing larger empires to extor them for their few measly pieces of gold they may have. All of this in effect would cripple this civilization leaving them with a lot of cities and some units to defend but the ability to do nothing else except sit there and watch the world change. One problem that still remains is the trading of world maps. I have no solution to this on the scale I just spoke of except that oh well we know what it looks like anyway. However there is something we can do that would solve that greatly and I think imrpove the game play overall of these city states, as well as the feel and look of the game. We can instead make more of these city state civilizations that are for specific regions of the world, i.e. Asia, Europe, Africa, mid-east, americas (or even n. and s. america). If Conquests allows for many more or unlimited civs then this will work out perfect, but even if it doesn't we can still cut the playable civs down to 25, or 26 depending on how many regions are desired. This way when I'm about to invade a city in southeast Asia, some European dude doesn't pop up and beg my troops to leave him alone. The buildings and architect of the towns will also be for that culture group area, and overall it would be much better looking. This also would be the solution to map trading, as it would only be of the small surrounding area, something that was very likely to have happened anyways with these small towns back in the day. I don't know I think that that would make your idea a very playable and an immensely enjoyable one. Seriously gread idea Minky, in fact just the idea of it is making me want to just go out and make it myself right now..haha as if thatd ever get done....well if there's any holes in what i said or any other problems you can think of go ahead and spit them out..

It's a good idea to have separate "regional" city states. Hopefully we can have unlimited civs -- as a matter of fact with unlimited civs, it would be possible to divide these city states into even more civs. For instance you could have Lombards, Goths, Etruscans, Macedonians, Prussians, Akkadians, Cherokee, Algonquins... essentially most of the map could be made into civs if that were the case. However, if there is still no unlimited number of civs, then city-states would work better.

I like your idea Donovan, but I disagree with parts of it. I think the city states should be allowed to build workers and be able to grow quite large. I agree with crippling the type of units they can build, and building types too (no Wonders!) but I think it's very important that they be allowed to become fully-fledged large cities. That is, after all, quite historically accurate. Giving them a special gov't is a great idea, and I think the most important job of that gov't would be to limit the income of the barbarians. That way they won't be researching much (or at all), and they won't be able to trade their gold away (i.e. we can't abuse them and sell them our map every turn for 200 gold).

Well in conquests at the chat log the atarians said there will still be the 31-civ limit, unfortunately. Hopefully they will change it before its release.

Well if they knew how much we'd like that to change, they might. We should all write to them and ask them to change it.

Or we could get someone to hack into the editor programming, but that would be illegal, and on top of that would probably cause the game to crash...

What would be even better is if they just added like a neutral flag you could tack on to cities, have them do the minimal, then everything we want would be accomplished AND we wouldn't have to worry at all about diplomacy, trading, and such with them. Every city would just be its own self sustained city! Just what we want. I don't know if they had this in one of the first two Civs, I don't think so but it could be where I remember it from, it was at least some sort of a game involving conquering cities...sometimes they'd just join you or sometimes the people would abandon you if they were unhappy and ungarrisoned and become neutral, requiring you to take them over again! I have to find out what that was...anyone remember?

Your right Minky they shouldn't be as easily defended and not built up at all as much as I implied before. You guys were concerend with them getting too much so pre-placing everything seemed like a good answer. We could still just pre-place defenders that way that would never get out of control, and then let them build workers and then certain buildings, etc., and put maintenance on that would keep a limit on how many workers they have. Or maybe like you said if we limit it just right we could let them build the defenders still and it won't be out of control. I guess the only way to find out is to try and see! If they stick with the 31 civ limit we could still do all this...but it'd be more difficult to keep them in check, and with the map trading and all.

Yea, you're talking about when Civs could split and form new nations. That's the biggest thing I miss in Civ3! I think that was one of the coolest things in the earlier games -- to much unrest and the city becomes a brand new civ. That way big countries could fall, smaller countries could form and be reconquered... ahh its just a dream though, becuase I doubt that wil lbe in Conquests either.

Anyway, TET, have you any thoughts on the City-States idea? Think it might be something good for your mod?

TETurkhan, for conquest make a 360x360 map thie make game more fun to play.

I believe that's the plan.

But Tet, where are you? Haven't heard from you in ages... too busy workin? ;-)

Very Busy these days - but I have been reading over all comments posted :) and most of the things brought up have already been addressed.

I will give everyone an update in a week or so - sorry to keep you all waiting! :p

Originally posted by TETurkhan
Very Busy these days - but I have been reading over all comments posted :) and most of the things brought up have already been addressed.

I will give everyone an update in a week or so - sorry to keep you all waiting! :p
i will be here waiting for you£¡£¡:)
hurry£¡

Hello. Hmm, TET, just posting here for telling you that I emailed you with a question last week, but I resended the email today. Perhaps you 'bulked' it uncounscioussly, I know it happens :D:D:D

Well, I'm posting the doubt here...

I have a question. In the TETurkhan M&M version without cities, civs are located in their real places. But I want to play with the civs randomly located, well separated... In the ptw editor I redistributed them randomly, the result is: the starting locations in colors disappear and then appear all blue ones, piled up in China and in West Europe mainly. I erased all starting points, but when I start a new game, civs still apear in those places.
Is there a way to play your map with civs randomly located in the map, well separated?

Thanks!

i notice the wonders were already built.
Can i ask for a list of wonders with the city they were built in?
it make it easier to plan which city and civ i should attack :D

Once Test of Time Version 2.0 along with some other scenarios I am working on (can’t give details yet) are completed – I will officially retire from making scenarios/mods for Civ. Its far too time consuming and with recent developments in my life its getting harder and harder to put aside time.

It is my hope however that someone, or a few of you will come forward and pick the mod up – continue work on it etc…

Thanks for your patience.

I don't blame you, TET. You've done so much work for free, and I can't even imagine how much time and energy this consumes for you. But you have done a very very good job, and I'm sure I can speak for everyone here when I say we appreciate every single second you've put into this game. Thank you so much for all that you've done, and I wish you good luck in your next endeavor.

Matt

Hey Tet. I have recently downloaded the el-mencey map and i find one problem. when playing it with no civs just as originally downloaded. It is really slow. most turns on your map right now take about 2 minutes with everyone there. On el-menceys when i have 1 city and know no other civs it takes me that same amount of time. I feel that this might cause the opposite of what you hoped to achieve (shorter turn times) by using this map:king:

TET your world map is the only way I play civ 3, honestly. I dont know what we will do when you hang up the towel.
*morns*

TET if your burdens in life become less hard will you start modding again?

I think you should use Aeldrik's world map. It is much fairer for the european civs.

(http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60045)

Look at the size of greece and rome, much more room for cities.

I think there are enough maps that are "fair" to the euro civs.... Tenno haika banzai!!!!!!


I thought this site could support Japanese text -_-

Originally posted by &quot;The Master&quot;
I think you should use Aeldrik's world map. It is much fairer for the european civs.

(http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60045)

Look at the size of greece and rome, much more room for cities.

don't use that map use this one;)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/2020worldmap.gif

I was wondering when we can expect the mod? I just picked up C3C and am in desperate need of my TET fix! :D

Also, I got the best of the net bonus CD and was hoping to get some help loading the contents onto my computer so I can use it with the new game (there were no directions with the CD and I am a bit computer illiterate)...any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

holy crap that tiny map is awesomw

Hmmm you can't build cities in europe!

Can't wait to try the new 362 map. BTW, I just finished reading this thread...all 61 pages (whew.)
I think Firaxis should hire Tet full time. I think he's a man after Sid Meier's own heart.

I think they should hire him too

How about making a version of the mod that allows one to play with the map and resources of the mod, but without the new units and stuff? I'd appreciate it. A lot. :)

if you dont want the new civs or units you can go into the editor and take them out. Its easier to take things out than it is to add things.

Originally posted by ShiroKobbure
if you dont want the new civs or units you can go into the editor and take them out. Its easier to take things out than it is to add things.

I'm sure it would be easier to make a pure map without any additional modifications downloadable than to manually remove all the custom units, civs, resources, etc.

Originally posted by Exel


I'm sure it would be easier to make a pure map without any additional modifications downloadable than to manually remove all the custom units, civs, resources, etc.


Use the import in the editor;)

ok if you just want to take out the civs and the units. Go into the editor and delete the civs and the units. Ok?

right now Im modding TETs game to add the new things from civ conquest. But to add the new civs I need to delete some of the old ones T_T

all civs added. Techs added. only thing left is to put the new units in. and test it. I also want to put in a black plague and some volcanos so the whole thing should be done by tomorrow. ^o^

Hello Everyone,

As I stated in my previous post I am working on a number of scenarios for Conquests as well as Test of Time 2.0

Work has been slow but I expect it to pick up, it has to cause starting in January I will not be able to spend any time on them. The New Scenarios are absolutely outstanding, I cannot give you more than that expect that I think they are among the best ever made for Civ and that sentiment is echoed by others designers worked on them. As for Test of Time, I will ensure that the key principles of the Scenario are upheld – so that you get a game where the time line will stay as close as possible to the way it happened in real history.

All your comments, all the feedback has been taken into consideration and most have been applied. Perhaps though, the most significant change is that now the mod is playability even slower computers. Yes, an ultra huge map where you do not sacrifice speed – anyhow I need to get back at it! :crazyeye:

TETurkhan

one thing... the installers install to D:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\Civilization III by default, i wasnt given a choice to choose directory. I dunno if you can change that next release.

didnt cause me that much bother but.... :)

and another thing, do you recommend 1gb ram at least for this map with 32 players? i know when i played the PTW version as Germany, by 1100ad it was taking 10minutes per turn :( shame i had to give it up because it had just started to look good, as Germany had settled most of north America :D

I wouldnt play with 31 civs it takes too long. If you play with 25 it doesnt take that long and you still have alot of civs

A little help please?
I have two questions I was hoping you all could help me with. I have played TET's map since the original version and frankly don't really like playing Civ unless its on a real world map with accurate starting locations. That being said, I am a complete Newbie when it comes to modding.

I know TET is hard at work on the new mods, but I was trying to play with TET's map in C3C and was having difficulty loading it. Ideally what I was hoping to do was just take the base map, add some of the new resources and use the new Civs to fool around with until TET is done. However, when I generate the map in the new editor I run into 2 problems.

The first is that the map has all of TET's Mod adjustments to it (like the civs Poland etc....) and I have NO clue how to add the new civs and powers and stuff.

The second is that after I fooled around with the editor for a while, I wanted to test it out. But I could not load the game from the main screen of C3C. The only options are Conquests or load game...and the map does not come up on either of them (even after I saved it...)

Can anyone lend me a hand with these issues? Or, does anyone know of a good (and big:-)) Earth map for Conquests with all the civs on it that I could play on instead?

Sorry for being long winded....thanks again for the help!

Greg

Greg all Scenarios are now under Civ Content

greg, as for puting in the new civs...all i can say is, go to rules, in the editor, and select reset default rules, this is what i did, it kept the map, but not the terrian, units, etc...this will put in all the conquests civs, techs, etc..., im sure the add/dis-addvantages are evident, but thats all i can offer, sorry...

as for a big map, im trying to get one done for conquests, 300x300

do you guys want me to post my TET map with the new civs and units ect?
I did it and I have been playing it
all the bugs are fixed so
I will post it if you let me know you want it

Thanks for the help guys, it is appreciated:-)

And I say you should post your mod. Just maybe use a new thread or something since this one is already so cluttered. Just a thought.

Thanks again!

you got it
I will post it the minute I come home from class
oh not all the units are in there, from the civ 3 conquest's....conquest like from the WW2 napoleonic conquest
but I put some of those and all of the normal civ conquest units more Japanese units hahaha ^o^

TET, any idea on a target date for release? I am not trying to be pushy, just curious if you think it will be days, weeks or months.

Thanks!

G

I've got Civ3 Gold edition, so it installs under the folder name "Atari", not "Infogrames Interactive". Is there anyway to use the exe. to install w/o reinstalling the game? I tried renaming the folder and installing but it didn't work...

This past summer I floated the idea of giving all cities except for the capitals to handicapped civilizations to slow the expansion of civs such as China and India and to make for a more interesting early game. I tired it out with PTW and had unsatisfactory results. Now that Conquests is out I am excited about the possibility again. I think there is even a way to now to handle the appearance and rise of a civilization like America! Let me explain.

At the bottom of the Ancient Science tree there will be a Barbarian branch ending in Despotism (The barbaric civs all start with tribal counsel). Despotism is a required tech for all the other base techs and for workers (so barbaric lands are undeveloped). Despotism will have a very high cost and be untradable. In addition the max research time will be increased beyond 50 so these nations will not exit barbarism until later in the game. The saving grace for these “Barbaric” Civilizations will be a unique wonder (via favors) that will act like the Great Library. These wonders can also be used to create units per turn to recreate the sudden rise to power of civilizations. For example, the Declaration of Independence can be priced so that it is completed around 1492 AD, giving the Americans a free tech known by two or more civs and creating a Minuteman every five turns. (The Minuteman would be a resource free Musketman that would insure the survival of Washington verses the Europeans). This little trick will do wonders for recreating the rapid rise of the Mongols and Arabs. Imagine the Torah wonder turning out Ansar Warriors every turn!

During this “Barbaric Period” these nations can only create warriors and a few other units. The cost of all these units will be raised so that they WILL lose cities (a barbaric warrior will cost 30 or more). To insure that their capitals are not taken, every capital at start will receive one or more Palace guard units (0-3-0). The number of needed Palace guards will have to be determined by play testing (the Mongols because they are so close to China will need more). To insure that captured cities are not razed every pre-placed city will start with 10 culture and “Retain Culture” will be checked.

The “Barbaric Branch” of the tech tree will have two or more “barbaric techs” between Tribal Counsel and Despotism. This will allow a pacing in the immergence of civs from Barbarism. For example, the Mayans would be the first civ to immerge from Barbarism in the Americas, with the others following after. This will be handled by given the more “advanced” Barbarians more free techs.

I foresee these Barbaric Civs having a number of side benefits to the Test of Time mod.

1. Overland travel will become next to impossible, with hostile barbaric civs controlling most of the land area at first. This will slow the unrealistic and rapid exploration of the world. It will also slow tech trading.

2. The Mediterranean Sea will give the civilizations that were born there the early advantages they enjoyed. Much more tech trading.

One final idea worth testing out: To simulate the historical importance of rivers and lakes, all rivers and lakes will have roads place along them from the start. The catch will be that the “Turns to complete” will be greatly increased to 24. This has the side benefit of showing that it is easier to build railroads than roads. It will also give the “river” civs the real advantage they enjoyed. This higher cost along with the barbarian civs will keep the world from having a complete road net before the modern age.

Nice ideas Keith Larson.:goodjob:

That's sort of like the earlier discussed idea of having a giant Barbarian civ. I don't think TET has responded about this idea yet, but it's gotten a lot of good feedback, so hopefully once TET is done with 2.0, someone will implement it.

Shouldn't the Declaration of Independance be built in 1776? That would make a bit more sense from a historical poinit of view. :)

Kal-el,

1492 might be too early, but I am afraid that 1776 would be too late. Remember this is a totally undeveloped Civ. I envision the Americans being a relatively small barbaric civ, with the Iroquois holding the rest of N. America that comes on strong thanks to the Minutemen to battle the Europeans and Iroquois for the continent.

If I do this mod, I think I will rename the wonder “Plymouth Rock” to avoid this confusion and rename the unit “Frontiersman.”

sounds good.

Grasslands Only Plan

I have been doing some more thinking about how to control Test of Time expansion, city placement, and barbarians. The main problem I see with the use of a “Super Barbarian” civ or civs is how to get the AI to fight and take the Super Barbarian cities. Since the “Super Barbarian” civs would be so large, even with one unit per city they would be too intimidating to the AI. The human play of course would have no such intimidation and would clean up in the early game. I thought about using “locked alliance” but there is no expiration date to these alliances and nations in the same alliance would never fight each other.

Keeping some of the changes I suggested for the “late bloomers” like America, I humbly offer the following suggestions:

1. Remove the “Allow Cities” flag from all but Grasslands.
2. Place a Grasslands tile on every location a Test of Time city will be founded.
3. Add the Grassland resources to Forests.
4. Place a Forest over all other Grassland tiles.
5. Place the starting capitals on the map.
6. Place Goody Hut or Barb Camp on each remaining city sight.

Just think of the game play possibilities these changes will create. First, we can mod one or more “Camp Defenders” with zero movement control the expansion of civs like China, India, America and Persia so they don’t jump too far ahead of the crowded Europeans. Second, if you look at maps of ancient forest coverage most grassland tiles were originally forest anyway. This is another way to simulate the pacing of the rise of civs. The northern European and American civs will be slower to develop because the have to contend with so much “wilderness.” The Mesopotamian and Nile river valleys will truly be the cradles of civilization. Will jump off to an early start, but because they lack some of the strategic resources other areas have, will lose their edge over time.

I foresee the following consequences which will require some adjustments to keep the game balanced:
1. The combat bonus verses Barbarians will become very important, as will the number of starting combat units. These two factors will have to be carefully adjusted in the difficulties level page to keep the game balanced and historical.
2. With settlers being used again in the early game their will have to be some way to keep Europe isolated from Asia. I would suggest created “Barbarian Walls” of immobile barbarians that will take several centuries to fight through. Seed the oceans with barbarian “sea monsters” with an attack and defense of 2. This should limit ocean exploration in the ancient period.
3. The expansionistic trait will be greatly weakened. With all the barbarians running around Scouts will not last long. I would suggest giving all expansionistic civs additional at start bonuses such as a free improvements in the capital city, free techs, additional units, or even a third trait. I don’t see any reason this has to be standard for every expansionistic civ, but customized to best represent the historic rise to greatness of each civ.

I am working on a small map with just a few civs on it to test out some of these ideas. No need to spend the effort on a huge earth map yet. I will let you know how it turns out.

Sounds like some good stuff there, Keith.

Ok my ModGod are there any Plans for the 2.0 Version of your ToT? I cant wait any longer. I love your first versions. They are so realistic. It is so cool to play the Tibetanians and build walls so that no one can tought ya.^^
It would be great to hear from your plans.

So long
Blackbeard

I've been hangin here on a string waitin for TET 2.0 to arrive. When are we all going to be amazed by your final installment TET

this year i hope...

you have to remember this is a massive mod :)

I can't even imagine how much work it took to get this far, even, heh... ^_^;; Seeing how much the Conquests editor can do compared to previous editors was quite ironic. I mean, TETurkhan can do so much more with it, but... he's going to do so much more with it, lol. It'll take a while, but it'll be worth the wait, no? =P ::drops back into lurker mode 'till then::

i think it is a good idea for TET to use land mines and naval mines from the opposum obssesed guy because of the important role in WWI and WWII. you should also add snipers for roles of assasinating leaders and stuff. I think he should add spy planes and zeppilins.

sorry extra post

the balance is break because the Germany and the Other countrys have a lot of stronger unique units

yeah well germany did have a great advantage when using tanks in that era because of Hitler's Blitz attacks and superior weapons and like a new tank every 2 years to counter the allies

• I am working with 2 development companies on the development of strategy based game. Much of my time & energy of late has been spent towards this end. Needless to say it is a serious venture, requiring much money, time & effort. It is my hope that when it is done many of you will support it. This is the only reason at this point that keeps me working on this scenario when I have so much to do on other fronts. I hope my work here will entrust me to many of you and that will encourage you to support me down the road.

• Test of Time 2.0: Right now I am breaking it up into 4-6 parts. Each starts at a different point in history. I call these parts “reset points”, and by that I mean everything is corrected along historical lines. Civs, cities and the owners of them etc are all adjusted accordingly. This works great cause it ensures that historical accuracy is maintained, for example it allows me to eliminate certain Civs and add others like America. Players will be able to play the Scenario from beginning to end OR start at anyone of these “reset points”. The biggest problem for me now, is whether to customize the tech tree and thus the eras for each part or just have one but have each part start at a certain point in that one tech tree. A modern world part would have 4 eras all dedicated to the modern era. This however is an incredible amount of work and to be honest there is no way it can be done unless people come forward to take on the tech tree for one of the parts. Here so far are the various parts of the Scenario with a few that I am still considering:
1. Ancient Era – full game from beginning to modern times.
2. Middle Ages Era – Rome has fallen, Byzantine becomes entangled in war against eastern invaders, Europe falls into darkness.
3. Industrial Era – Age of exploration where the new world is discovered, Europe awakens from dark sleep and starts rising to prominence, Islamic world starts falling behind, America is small but destined for greatness first though it has to fight England for independence, Most of the known world starts becoming colonized.
4. WWI
5. WWII
6. Modern World – After WWII until present times.

• New Scenarios: The first 4 for sure the others I am still debating (time limitations):
1. Uncharted Waters:
2. The Lost World
3. Heaven & Earth
4. Castle Siege/Epic Battles
5. Super Hero Conflict
6. Romance of the Three Kingdoms
7. Tour de Civ

• Assistance Required: Simply put, I have over extended myself and am in need of help on these scenarios. I need people who are good with the editor & who have C3C. If you are interested please contact me – teturkhan@civfanatics.net
• ETA for Test of Time: 30 days. Let the countdown begin! :)


That’s about it & oh yeah - HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! :beer:

Romance of the Three Kingdoms - Destiny of an Emperor

Heaven & Earth - Tento Chito

The Lost World

Uncharted Waters

where would i go to find the version 2.0 when it is finished?