For those of you who are just after the map and not the mod - here is a list of world maps I have completed for Civ (all Conquests compatible):
Just Maps
TETurkhan - The Lost World (World Map 256x256) http://www.civfanatics.net/~teturkhan/downloads/TETurkhan - The Lost World (World Map 256x256).biq
TETurkhan - Test of Time (World Map 256x256) http://www.civfanatics.net/~teturkhan/downloads/TETurkhan - Test of Time (World Map 256x256).biq
TETurkhan - Test of Time 2.0 (World Map 362x362)http://www.civfanatics.net/~teturkhan/downloads/TETurkhan - Test of Time 2.0 (World Map 362x362).biq


Version 1.93 us however ready http://www.civfanatics.net/~teturkhan/downloads/tet1.93-update.exe (further details on this version can be found below).

IDEAL GAME SETTINGS

Player Setup

• First I should mention that I use to recommend Regicide mod but not any longer. If you do select this the game will crash or freeze for insane length of time.
• All default settings except turn off respawn AI players IF you are playing the World Map with Cities version. If you are playing random map then I would say choose whatever your preference is.
• Choose Deity

Preferences

• Select “Color Blind Help” – it helps distinguish between the many different colors that look very similar to one another.
• Select “Show Advanced Unit Action Buttons” – it gives you many more options in controlling your units.
• Depending on the speed of your computer you may want to turn off a number of animations. If this does not work good enough then I would even turn off some of your unit moves – but don’t turn off your enemy moves ;)



ABOUT THE MOD:
There are dramatic differences between the version on the PTW disk and what you will have after this update. Thus it is highly recommended that you download it. Those of you that already have version 1.65 or 1.66, all you need do is download the latest file listed below called "tet1.93 update". Many people have written me about the scenario stalling when loading (the City Version). Be advised loading times can be quite extensive. Finally, remember that if you have a slow PC, you can play the mod version (where you choose a small random map) that will significantly reduce loading times as well as wait time between turns.


• INSTALL DIRECTIONS: Just review these instructions and when finished, click one of the two primary updates followed by the latest 1.93 Update.

A. If you have the PTW Disk or Version 1.5 of the TETurkhan Mod then Download the TET1.66-Update (the file is self installing, one click and you are done-then proceed to download the 1.93 Update).
B. If you want to reinstall the entire mod then download TET1.66-FULL (this is also a self installing file), followed by the 1.93 Update.
C. IMPORTANT: The primary updates should erase all previous BIX(s) (scenarios) of TETurkhan mod. However people with an operating system other than XP will need to delete the old BIX(s) manually. There are a total of 5 that need to be erased. They have similar names so ensure you have the right ones. One last note, it has recently come to my attention that some people with older operating systems such as Win98 are unable to get either of the two primary installs to work at all. These installs were made using Winrar (http://download.com.com/3000-2250-10007677.html), use it to open the install file, then manually extract all files and folder into their appropriate places.

• BIX(s) (Scenarios) THAT NEED TO BE ERASED (these are no longer compatible with the new version 1.65 & up):
1. TETurkhan.bix
2. TETurkhan Test of Time (with cities).bix
3. TETurkhan Test of Time (start position only).bix
4. TETurkhan Test of Time (Regular).bix
5. TETurkhan Test of Time (Cities).bix



UPDATE DOWNLOAD: Update to 1.66 version of Mod (53.9 MB Zipped) http://www.civfanatics.net/~teturkhan/downloads/tet1.66-update.exe(This primary update is for those of you that have the PTW disk or version 1.5 - After downloading and installing this, proceed to download the 1.93 Update)

FULL INSTALL: Complete install of Mod (88.5 MB Zipped) http://www.civfanatics.net/~teturkhan/downloads/tet1.66-full.exe(This is also a primary file, but unlike the update it reinstalls the full mod updating it to version 1.66 - I recommend this ONLY if your have in some way erased the mod, and again you will need to download the 1.93 Update afterwards)

VERSION 1.93 UPDATE (critical one): Gives you the latest fixes and modifications http://www.civfanatics.net/~teturkhan/downloads/tet1.93-update.exe(Make sure you have the 1.65 or 1.66 primary installed before downloading this file. When done, just click the update file once and it will self install.

I know this all seems confusing and sorry for that, but if you get lost here is a basic summary:
1- You must have 1.65 or 1.66 downloaded first (the Update or Full).
2- Then download the latest 1.93 Update and you are done!

That’s it! I have a tendency & talent for making things more complicated than they are - if you have difficulty just email me teturkhan@hotmail.com and I will more than happy to assist.



Taken from the TETurkhan Readme file

• THREE WAYS TO PLAY TETurkhan Test of Time:

1. Just Mod: You choose the map you want to play on, but use TETurkhan Rules (units, resource etc).
2. World Map: TETurkhan Rules played on the TETurkhan Giga World Map (256 by 256).
3. World Map & Cities: Has over 250 cities placed in their historical spots, each with a starting population of one. Approximately 2-14 cities per Civilization. Some Civilizations have a clear advantage while others do not. If you seek an equal & fair start for all Civs then I suggest you play the other two versions.



• VARIATIONS:

A. Slow PC: If you have a slower computer I highly recommend you choose just the mod version where you pick choose the size of the map you wish to play on. The smaller the map the faster the game – its as simple as that.
B. Boredom: For those of you that like the mod & map, but want some added variety – simply go to the editor and choose ‘Redistribute Resources’. This will change all resource locations.



• GENERAL DETAILS:

When you think of the TETurkhan Map & Mod, think detail, realism and ultimately depth. Every aspect of the game was changed and modified to this end. Range of units, their real life costs, terrain, resources, cities that grow to their actual population sizes recorded in history, and so much more. Every detail and change was based on facts & formulas with next to no guess work involved. How detailed am I talking? Read on…

1. 31 Civs in total, with each having their own unique leaderheads except one where I doubled up. Included are the WW2, Japanese & Dinosaur units found in the extra folders on the PTW disk, plus a dozen more I added. Over 40 resources, all placed accurately according to history.
2. Hills that represent mountains from 500-2000meters high, Mountains represent ones that are 2000-4000meters high, and Snow Cap Mountains represent ones over 4000 meters high.
3. Forests were placed according to what the Earth looked like 5000 years ago. Resources like horses will spread to different regions as time passes in the game, just as they did in history.
4. To obtain unit movement ranges/rates, I simply took the circumference of the world 24900 miles, size of my map 256 squares across, then found out the range or speed of the unit and converted it to squares.
5. Figuring out unit costs, I applied ratios again, however since the game’s maximum production shield limit is 1000, I had to modify the higher end units to compensate. This however could not be helped, and if you look at the game where a $30 million fighter costs 10 shields and $4.5 Billion dollar Carrier costs 18 shields, my adjustments are much closer to reality. How can you afford such units? Simple, some of the Civilization Advances you discover will cause resources to pop up; which will give you additional wealth to help facilitate your purchase.
6. Great effort went into Barbarian placement. In almost all cases I renamed them according to the indigenous people who lived in that particular region. Furthermore I placed “workers” in villages to represent the indigenous people – thus you conquer the village you can take them as your slaves. Many barbarian villages have great leaders, before destroying a unit check to see if it is anyone special.
7. Infamous Pirates now sail the seas. I placed over a dozen famous pirates found in history through out the map. They are terribly fearsome in battle and will wreak havoc on your shipping lanes.
8. Cities grow to sizes that they did in history and at the right times.
9. Diplomacy text that is updated with the new Civs, with unique text for each.
10. Dinosaurs: I know my mod and map are both based on realism, but I swayed from this on one point for the sake of adding some comic relief (if you can consider a T-Rex funny ). I added Dinosaurs and placed them in remotest parts of the South American and African Jungles. They are locked in those areas, thus you will not have to worry about them stomping on your cities (though that would be fun ;)). They can be quite powerful, so you might want to send a descent sized expedition force, depending on the Dinosaur to kill it. If this feature is not to your liking, then it’s as simple as opening up the map and deleting them. Remember Dinosaurs cannot be built by players or barbarians; whatever is on the map at the beginning is all that will appear in the game.
11. Silk Road: I found out the route of the Silk Road and placed it on the World Map. It connects China with the Middle East and promotes trade. Cities along the Silk Road are historically correct. Of course over time Civs will build roads everywhere making the Silk Road obsolete, however initially it is of vital strategic importance being the primary medium for trade between East & West.
12. Ancient Relics: The Lost Ark, Holy Grail, Buddhist & Islamic Relics can be found on the mod. They can give their owners great power, but they can also serve as a curse fore other Civs will want them for themselves. Each relic is Religion specific; the Holy Grail only works for Christian Civs, the Ark of the Covenant only works for Jews and so on. The holy land (around Jerusalem) has key relics for Islam, Christianity & Judaism and is thus a battle ground. He (or she ) who controls Jerusalem will wield the power of Templar Knights, Ghazis or Shofar Warriors, depending on their Civs Religion..



There is more, but too much to list here... for further details, check out the Civilopedia while playing the mod. It is completely updated with text for all the added units, techs, resource, Civs etc. Any and all information you need you can find there.

Try a game and see what you think - feedback is welcome!

_________________________________________________
***CURRENT VERSION 1.93***

VERSION 1.90 BUG REPORT

World:

Africa:

Asia:

Europe:

North America:

South America:

GODZILLA!

nice! :goodjob:

Map looks great... But when can we expect one with resources?

as he said: soon!

It isn't easy to place resources, because gameplay and realism are at odds. If you want to place huge deposits only, which will give you a good number of each resource for gameplay, you will end up with many historical starting positions that are practically resource-free, if you add resources to these areas, then you end up with say over 30 coal worldswide for 16 players - not good!

Also, Rubber is a ridiculous resource and should better be replaced by copper, also, Horses are restricted to central Asia in BC times, want to do that historically correct????????? Difficult things to balance in a mod, so give him some time!

Wow! That is amazing! Can't wait for the scenario!

WOW! :eek: That is the best world map I've seen. He even included the starting locations to the new civs coming in PTW. Fantastic job on the map can't wait for you to finish the scenario. :goodjob:

EDIT: Oh wait, I found the size (256 X 256). I guess I should of read the read me first.

I know the title "simply best blah blah blah map ever" is not going to sit well with some of you... sure you are thinking, who does this guy think he is... well WAIT and before you start posting for me to get my ego out of my ***

Understand the reason I did this was to spark curiousity... many modders are using maps right now for their scenarios, I wanted to grab their attention and make them aware of an alternative choice.

As for other maps out there. I have nothing but respect for the people who have labored hours on end to make them... And there are some real good ones (refer to the chart for my top picks)...

So the title is nothing more than a marketing tactic - ok? :D

Also, Rubber is a ridiculous resource and should better be replaced by copper, also, Horses are restricted to central Asia in BC times, want to do that historically correct????????? Difficult things to balance in a mod, so give him some time!


How can you say Rubber is a ridiculous resource?
During WWII it was one of the most importantly sought resources of the war. It wasn't until after the war that synthetic rubber was really invented and used. Japan needed to invade Burma and other SE Asian countries to secure supplies of rubber, Americans recycled tires, etc in order to get rubber. Without WWII there might not have been synthetic rubber, but it was developed to alleviate the problem of worldwide rubber shortages during the war.

Pap

pap1723: you are talking about 20 years of importance! That is maybe 15 tunrs in Civ3!!!!! And since the AIS are so unwilling to trade resources it really stinks.

• just change it in the world size menu?
• adjust all advances, by adding more cost to them? (Which by the way might very effective in slowing down earlier Eras, since they go by so fast and are disproportionately compared to the ladder ones).

I agree rubber was important but plastic would be a cool resource to add, maybe after rubber or something, I also like the idea of copper. Very nice looking map, I will try it out when I get home. Also, off hand, what was the size or Marla's world map?

larger map should mean the units can move more spaces...
question is how much etc..

in particular I want to know about bombers and fighters...

ideas anyone?

Isn't plastic made from petroleum?
I am not sure, just wondering, if so, than it is covered with Oil, and then when you discover plastics, it makes the ability to make the plastics.

Here is a possibility...
Make rubber a required resource for infantry, tanks, and whatever else it is currently used for in the game, and make a new advance further in the tree called synthetics, Unless is there one???

Then you can make new units that have the same stats as the other units that require the rubber resource, but make them so that they do not require rubber.

Just an idea...

Well, the bombers and the fighters are limited to the 8 space bombard, unless you are considering making them air units that are not immobile.

I'd say early fighters give them a 4-6 range with all bombers and fighters after the jet fighter with an 8 range.

Pap

Even better, I like synthetics, it covers alot of materials. Good idea! I read the Marla World map post but still cannot find the size of the Marla map, anyone find that info out yet?

The size of her map is aproximately 200by256...
the chart I posted compares maps that are large to giga size...

pap1723: great idea! would throw Rubber out for copper, but if we can add more resources (have to check on that), Rubber + tech 'Synthetics' makes sense :goodjob:

now why am I too thick to think of stuff like that????? :rolleyes:

This map was created with one main goal, and that being accuracy. That first phase (the Map) done, now comes placement of resources, editing unit stats etc to make them work in sync perfectly with the map. As Lt. 'Killer' M. stated, the game itself is limiting and something’s will have to give way for playabilities sake. However the aim will still be focused on creating a game that gives the player a real historical feel.

So in saying that obviously certain things in the game need to be edited. I have put together a list of areas that will be addressed – and I encourage anyone for their input. One other development, I have spoken to Kal-El over the course of this past week. He was really impressed with the map and was wanting to incorporate it with his mod DyP. I unfortunately haven’t had the opportunity try his mod yet, have any of you? And if so, how is the historical feel of the mod? Resources, units etc, do they all work well or do they still require some refinement? Let me know... one additional point, I would like to keep the game as close to its original form as possible. Only critical aspects of the game to be adjusted, my goal is not to recreate it but to add and modify it to 1-work smoothly with the map and 2-add historical feel...

List of areas that will be addressed with the Scenario/Mod:

• Terrains will allow more types of resources to be placed on them. For example, Germany is covered by forests and has much coal deposits, but since forest terrain does not allow coal, you have the change the terrain to compensate – which makes for an inaccurate map.
• Units on large maps should not move at the same rate as units on small maps. There should be an automatic scale system that factors in world size, but there isn’t. In light of this, I will edit the unit movement rates to compensate.
• City locations. I will edit certain resources (give them more food points etc), to encourage large cities where they were typically found through out history. I will also reduce flood plain food output to fix disproportionately large cities being formed around deserts. I have a unique system that enables me to get the AI to place cities in the right place and with the right name. It is not 100%, but it works most times… Obviously the first city will be in the right location but I am talking the 2nd and 3rd cities as well. Again this will add to the historical feel of the game.
• Tech Rate. Aside from increasing the tech rate I plan on adding more costs to techs in the starting Eras. Many times I find the ladder ages lasting quite long but the early ones whizzing by prematurely…
• Resources. They are limited, and certain key ones as pointed out by a few of you are missing and yet we have others that don’t make much sense. The most irritating has to be strategic resources. In my opinion a strategic resource that COMPLETELY disables a Civilization from advancing is stupid. Like Saltpeter, it’s strategic but yet I have to put one by every Civilization otherwise it will put them and a huge disadvantage – where then is the strategy in that? Or like Horses, found originally in Steppes of Asia but in eventually found all over the world – again same problem, what do you do? Placing them only in one part of the world gives any Civilizations around there clear advantage, but placing them all over the globe takes away from the strategy aspect… I know, it is good to create some limits etc, but I think it has to be within reason…. Also there are not enough resources in the game… I am looking to expand this, but not just for the sake of adding more but because it will add historical flavor to the game…
• Unique Units & Golden Age. I sometimes do not find that the UU's impact the game enough, in most cases they are only slightly more powerful than conventional units of their time. I for example would like a UU that is considerably more powerful, this could be done by editing the ADM, or by reducing the cost. So let’s say you’re playing your game, all of a sudden you see Mongol Horsemen (UU), you panic, because you know this means the Mongols are going through their golden age and you will face hordes of these units. The fear factor has to be there… I made a mod a while back and I reduced the Mongol Units cost and increased their Defense higher than any other horse unit. One time I was playing the game as the Chinese, I saw one Mongol UU appear, up until that point the Mongols were backwards and no threat, but with in short time hordes of these units were pouring over my borders… the units were exceptionally powerful and I lost number of cities… though they did culture flip back to be later on :D The point is, tweaking such units really adds some historical flavor to the game…

Thats about it for now, once again any insights are welcome

Great great great great great map!!!!!! :D


It's the first time in 10+ years and three versions of Civ that a world map doesn't features an ugly and inaccurate shape of my country.

:goodjob:

Gorgeous map Teturkhan! :goodjob: Special applause for the Caribbean section, Italy, and heck, all the rest of it ;) You must have had some tool to get the map editor to produce exactly the coastline you wanted (which is otherwise a pain).

With a max operational range of 8, air units will get even more unrealistic than before... :(

A thought about the resources. As mentioned, rubber was extremely important during WWII until synthetic rubber was invented; in a similar way, horses were quite "strategic" originally (monopolized by the Central Asian nomads) until the rest of the world started breeding and training them in quantity.

In the light of this, I'm thinking resources should "go obsolete" at some point, e.g. with the discovery of some tech (Synthetic Fibers for rubber, for example).

No tool was used, I took longitude and latitude lines on a globe, where ever they crossed I marked the map with a pollution spot. Using these I did the map square by square... and incredably long process...

glad you like the map - tried real hard to come up with a map for Civ that was bar none the best ever made... lots of maps out there are good, but not to the level I think they could of been...

here is an image of what the map looked while under contruction (note the pollution spots):

Yes, I have that feeling about many maps - I look at them and immediately see parts that should be modified. But the current user-created maps around are very high-quality, better than anything made for the earlier games. The Civ2 basic-earth map was so abysmal I just found it plain insulting! (I'm a geography buff, don't mind me ;) )

A note about starting-locations:

* The Persian start looks unplayable - deserts, hills, a few plains? - that can't be irrigated?!? Seems their only hope would be to move west to Mesopotamia, where they'll be greeted by the Babylonians (hopefully not with a deity-level horde ;) ).

* Your Viking start is inaccurate. The so-called Vikings (some of us prefer a different term, e.g. Northmen) originated in southern Sweden, whence the Danes moved into modern Denmark and pushed out the Jutes (who settled England with the Angles). Norway was also settled from Sweden. Whatever capital Firaxis will choose for the Vikings, they really should start out in South-Sweden.

Persian starting point: Yes the terrain around the starting point doesn't look good. Keep in mind though, that this is a limitation of the game and not a mistake in the map design. When I make a mod for this map I will compensate/offset such tough areas with resources enabling the city to grow and become vibrant metropolis.

Viking Starting location: From all indications the Viking Capital will be Trondheim and thus the reason I put it there. You are correct though on where the Vikings originated from – but in the end my placement of the start point will reflect Firaxis's decision - maybe in the mod I can change this though ;)

Antarctica is VERY large. Are you going to do anything to prevent the AI from settling there?

in the mod I will implement tactics to discourage this... yes it is large, Mercators projection really shows a high level of distortion near the poles. Though I could of altered this, I chose to keep true to the projection...

currently the food output of tundra is 1, the same as plains...
let me give it some thought and see what I can come up with...

curious, is the AI known to colonize tundra squares?

teturkhan: what I suggested to you via PM for the Horses migth be done for the Rubber, too ;)

as for the Tundra: in my mod there is no city building on Tundra and Desert. This can be circumvented by planting forest on Tundra, but even then the cities stay small, and the AI will NOT land workers on new islands to plant those forests. Thus, settling a Tundra island will take extremely long.

Also, you could introduce another terrain type 'Polar Ice' - no sttiling, no bonus whatsoever, no roads, no nothing. That WOULD keep the ice-covered areas free. I'll help if i can :D

I can replace an existing one but how do I add?

The resource version is nearly complete!
I expect to post it tonight :D

Looks fabulous, and I don't mind not having to do one now myself!

Question -- what sources did you use for climate / terrain type distribution for 4000 BCE?

I was just bracing myself to work with:

1. "Global Atlas Of Palaeovegetation Since The Last Glacial Maximum": http://www.soton.ac.uk/~tjms/adams4.html

2. "Global Distribution Of Original And Remaining Forests":
http://www.unep-wcmc.org/forest/original.htm

3. "Major Biomes Of The World": http://www.runet.edu/%7Eswoodwar/CLASSES/GEOG235/biomes/main.html

4. World Climates (PDF): http://www.eduplace.com/ss/maps/pdf/world_clim.pdf

5. Interactive map of forest cover changes:
http://www.globalforestwatch.org/english/interactive.maps/global.htm

Also, for alternative 2D projections of the Earth:
http://hum.amu.edu.pl/~zbzw/glob/glob0.htm


All the Best,

Ozymandias

I am familiar with a few of your maps, but the 2nd link is the one I used mostly for the forests.

Glad you like the map, just so you know though, I made it without any graphic mods. Meaning it is best viewed with the games original design..

Hmm….

Curious, what does the map look like I wonder with Snoop’s graphic mod? Hope it hasn’t distorted things...

anyone with snoops view the map?

Great map! :goodjob: have you sent it in to the Firaxis site? I haven’t played with it yet, but I have Womok's Graphic pack, and I'll tell you how it looks in a bit. lmao, you might want to change the name of the Forum title though, or at least mention it’s a world map. Im very interested in this mod considering you say you had help from a geologist. I also like the idea of antarctica. Btw are you thinking of distributing Barbarian camps? If you accurately place the barbarian’s. This would limit free tech’s, and by doing so making it more realistic.

the title was just a marketing ploy :D

I have done considerable work on the mod, in essence I am trying to balance the game as best as possible.


I expect it to be done no later than this friday...

the title was just a marketing ploy :D
Im aware of that, But I think good advertizing should say what the thread has in it. For instance Simply the Biggest, most accurate and ultimately Best World Map Ever made for the Game!

BtwThe reason I say this is because I was looking for a world map, to populate it (private mod). With accurate City placement. More than starting positions.

If you want to change the name of thread, even slightly to world map, change the header in your first post. Besides, it just so happens I agree with you ;). I played it on Womoks mod and it looked fine. It was interesting, I seemed completely stuck in the ancient ages, without resources. . . And I Liked it! I have done considerable work on the mod, in essence I am trying to balance the game as best as possible....I expect it to be done no later than this friday...
Thats fast, I look foreword to seeing it, you should send it into Firaxis though.

I played it on Womoks mod and it looked fine. It was interesting, I seemed completely stuck in the ancient ages, without resources. . . And I Liked it! :lol:

Mod Update: I have over 200 cities in their historical locations, which is much harder than I originally thought. Things like Name Change, Historical significance, population size etc can make for some tough calls... but so far so good :)

The real pain in the *** will be in giving each city just the right amount of resources to get it to grow to actual size... I got a formula but to apply it to over 250 cities??? Firaxis you reading this??? should hire me to do all the boring tendias stuff nobody else would!!! :D

thanks for the compliment - and let me see what I can do about the name....

now where do I go to change it??

I put in some new snapshots of the Mod, shows the city placement... still hard at work though finishing it off...

Hopefully it will be done by Friday.

Awesome :goodjob: Your right, Accurate city placement is a b****. I tried yesterday, Im was determined to give each civ 12 cities. So now, France, England, And Germany share parts of Scandinavia. :lol: And for Africa!?!??!?! I decided to break it up into two owners, The Zulu in the south And Egyptians in the North. Im curious to see what you did for Australia. Thats were I put England's other 9 Cities. . . . Anyway It ended with me trashing the project, hope you have better luck! :enlighten

In the first post try changing the title, or the 'header' If you notice mine says Good morning GWM . It might not work, I’ve done it in other forum fansites though.

This map is truly incredible and I can't wait to get the finished article! :crazyeye: :egypt:

Alrighty then, finally done!!!

Only one bug I need to fix and it happens to be in an area I am weak in :confused:

When in the diplomacy screen, I see the actually programing instead of just the text.. so it will read: ; Mediterraneans = AI's people (ADJ)

or when in the foreign advisor screen the icons are all mixed up, Mao for the English etc???

anyone have any ideas???

let's see...did u add new custom civs into the mod, with no leaderheads?

i think the diplomacy text is 'cos of the new custom civs without any diplomacy dialogues programmed into the diplomacy.txt file. i added the scottish civ (with sween32's leaderhead) and realised this, but i was just too lazy to add the text, so i just let it be.

but i had no prob with the foreign advisor screen.

not good with this stuff, was hoping to get help... so far none available...

it looks like I got to do some text file editing... hopefull it will not take long... the mod is finished all this stuff is cosmetic... but people expect that too :)

Ill look into your problem. For starters, You just have to go to your Civ iii file, open the text folder, then open 'diplomacy'. Its actually user friendly, it even has a legend at the top. Or you can go here. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15270 Dan Magaha of FIRAXIS, was good enough to right it. It should help.

teturkhan I e-mailed you, How big is this mod going to be?

currently 19 civs but there will be 31 when PTW comes out - no worries though, 7 of them will drop out soon (explain later)...

over 250 cities with correct historical locations as well as correct population growth... etc etc...

let me put it to you this way, it takes a minute for the game to start :D

so the map here have resources?

I love this map, but once you get playing into it and have numerious cities the game play takes FOREVER. I can't wait 10-15 mins between turns... grab me a gun

thisismysn20,
get a faster cpu.......:lol:

It does it to you too... fag hehe

I assume one of you people rated the map lower than a 5, which your entitled to do. However keep in mind, this map is a GIGA sized (says so right in its title). If your going to rate a GIGA sized map, how can you penalize it for being big? ;)

There are excellent small, medium, large, huge and Giga sized maps out there... if your going to rate them, rate it according to their category.

If a map like this gets a rating of 4 when other maps that don't even come close get higher ratings - then that just a disservice to people looking looking around for a world map.

I love this mod, infact I'd rate it a 5... just don't love the time delay

When can we expect a finished product?

Its all done now...
but it hasnt been tested (not enough anyway)

so I will let you guys at it and you can give me feedback on what works what doesnt'...

cool?

I voted 5, But most likely it was the other map makers coming to seek vengeance upon you. . .

so I will let you guys at it and you can give me feedback on what works what doesnt'...

Ill give 'er a whirl (always wanted to say that)

I think you need to upload the file to the server. It sounds like a real neat idea. Can’t wait to try ‘er out.

I posted the download at the begining of this thread.
One thing I got to tell you guys, if you opt to play with the cities, things can get pretty slow... I was thinking, this is only with 250 cities, how the hell could anyone play with over 500!? :crazyeye:

anyhow, check it out and let me know what ya think.

I warned everyone I hadn't tested this out as much as I would have liked. Needless to say I am disappointed with the amount of mistakes there were :eek: Just kidding :D

But there were some real stupid errors.. and I have since corrected them...

here is the list of fixes:

1- (resource map)there were no settler units available with the resource map, so basically you started the game with only a worker... lots of fun huh? :D

2- (city mod)intro text has been added

3- (resource map) Babylonians didn't have a start position

4- (both M&M) pedia txt lines were missing certain keys causing errors

5- (city mod) game balance was way off, nuetrals far too powerful - gave normal civs units at begining and also enlarged city.

Few more things that don't come to mind at the moment...
I am testing the mod out now and its working fine...

Updated download is at the begining of this thread..

You edited the rules?:mad: :D

As long as you don't make an install program that overwrites files in civ3 that you'll never be able to find so you have to reinstall the game just to play a map (marlas) I'm fine.

Originally posted by teturkhan
I can replace an existing one but how do I add?

You've probably discovered by now that you can't. Having done an extensive graphics mod (Simply the Best Graphics Mod ;)), I don't see how you could add a terrain without supplying a lot of graphics files even if the code could support it.

BTW, congrats ;)

the Civilopedia you can add, it in no way should effect your other regullar games. It will however provide additional details than what comes regular with the game. The Pedia & diplomacy text file I would highly recommend backing up your original before putting them in.

thanks for the compliments, and know that I am still hard at work to fine tune this mod...

I dunno teturkhan The problem is No one Declared war on the 'Europeans' except me. I ended up taking over all of Europe before The Mediveal ages. Its a shame we cant set Diplo before hand. Perhaps a save game editor would help? I like the new civ's and I like how the Barbarians have workers, But now the Aztecs or 'Amerdians' are all powerfull and own half the world. . . Bottom line is Its fun And makes for interesting Gameplay, but its confusing all the same.

I was actually just thinking of that(diplomacy settings) a few moments ago. In Civ2 I had that option, but not so here. BTW you must be damn good to take out the Europeans, hell I always get sacked by their hordes of units they send after me. So now you own Europe and the rest of the regular Civs haven't done anything? Could you give some more details pls.

As for the Amerindians, they cannot build settlers, so their cities are limited in the New World, actually none of the Neutrals can settlers.

Hey PCHIghway could you send me your savegame?
that woudl be great help bud - thanks
email it to teturkhan@hotmail.com

okay Ill post it in a bit. To tell the truth I haven’t met the Amerindians, I got a map from some guy with That looked like Montezuma. BTW you must be damn good to take out the Europeans Well... er... for testing purposes I played on chieftain:D. even though Its fun, the plan completely backfired. Think Ill start a game on Monarch next time.

Well... er... for testing purposes I played on chieftain. even though Its fun, the plan completely backfired. Think Ill start a game on Monarch next time.
Thats too funny! :D


I played Romans and got roasted everytime by hordes of Europeans. I made a new improvement on it though to tip the balance more in favor of the regular Civs. One thing you touched on, the AI... hard to know how they will react in situation like this... all a matter of testing...

I figured it out! I played Romans and got roasted every time by hordes of Europeans. I checked out your map in the editor, There’s supposed to be a civ called the "Europeans" but in the chieftain game there. . . Wasn’t? I to, was the Romans, (my biggest trouble was the Mediterraneans) But there was no civ called Europeans? Then I decided to play a different game. And this time there were no Mediterraneans? no wonder it was so easy to take over Europe:lol:. Is this a glitch? It seems one is missing, to many civs perhaps? Thats too funny! Yeah, yeah, You just wait till Ptw comes out.

:D

When you set up your game, make sure all the new civs are included (this is for the city mod) - I have a feeling you did not include Mediterraneans in your game setup.

Altaics, Afroasiatics, Austroasiatics, Amerindians, Sino-Tibetans, Europeans, Mediterraneans and Indics. It is very important to have these civs because they represent almost all 250 cities. That also means you will not be able to play with all regular civs (at least until PTW comes out).

IF however you are playing the regular version, which is just the map, resources and my edited rules, you will not find any new civs or cities...

hope this helps.

One more point.. the city mod is a tough game, human player should be able to domination the new civs but I am not so sure about other AI... the idea with the new neutral civs is to have them pretty much out of the game near the end of the middle ages except maybe the Amerindians and Austroasiatics.

Tet,

Keep up the good work man. :goodjob: Glad to see this thing finally coming together. :D

I have a feeling you did not include Mediterraneans in your game setup. Most likely.

:D this is the best and most gameplay-historically accurate map\scn for Civ III, I’ve ever played:goodjob:. And as for the diplomacy, I think you could use a save game editor.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26034
you might want to check out the tutorial page in general, some pretty big movements going on there.



Btw, Is it possible to have to many Resources on the map at once? making some not load when the game starts?.

Thanks, its good to hear that I am going in the right direction with this M&M (Map & Mod). In saying that though, I want you to know I have already made substantial changes to further fine tune it and of course fix some stupid errors (:D). Even now, the download is somewhat outdated. I apologize for continually updated it like this, but like I said from the onset, this next while will be the test heavy part of the mod. IF any of you are reading this - don’t be turned off, you can still play the resource version of the map or even simpler - set the rules to default and you won’t have to test anything – almost all the testing now is being done with the City Version, the map itself is solid (so far :p).

One thing I want to ask you PCHighway, what did you think about the Egyptians having the Pyramids, the Greeks the Colossus and the Chinese the Great Wall of China right from the start of the Game? I originally wanted to leave those wonders available for anyone, but then thought that those three Wonders were so intertwined with the region that it’s only fitting to have them there.

Btw, Is it possible to have to many Resources on the map at once? making some not load when the game starts?.

No unfortunately I do not think there is a way to achieve what your asking. The good news however is that I will be taking out many of the bonus resources and instead making some super – bonus resources. As for the Strategic or Luxury, check out the excel sheet included in the download, it lists all the resources, what region they are located etc, If you want to reduce some of these then I highly recommend going over that chart first before doing so. Give me a bit of time on this front fore it is a priority for me also.

Hey I just wanted to say that I really appreciate your testing the mod PCHighway, the feedback you give is invaluable... and thanks for the tip about the diplomacy, that sure would enable me to better control those neutral Civs...

What I meant was: When I played as England, the game didn’t load The cows:confused:. I was stuck at size 2 until I expanded 3 times.

You know? I didn’t notice the wonder things? While it is rather unfair, I would suggest making one wonder per playable civ? maybe you should make the 'Europeans' and other neutral civs non-playable? The Chinese Great wall seems rather unfair as I got crushed by Those Pike-Vikings. Hey I just wanted to say that I really appreciate your testing the mod PCHighway, the feedback you give is invaluable... and thanks for the tip about the diplomacy, that sure would enable me to better control those neutral Civs... :D No problem, But Im happy you took it on yourself to make the mod, My Civ edit is filled with half finished mods. Thanks for making this great mod!:goodjob: Also a stroke of genius on your part making accelerated production on. Once again the workers as a bonus for the Barbs is a great plan.:enlighten

Now I don't know if you are going to like this or not but here it goes anyway...

what I did with the cows is as follows... there are two types... one that is comes out early in the game (ancient to middle ages or so) and another around the Industrial to modern eral.

The reason you did not sees those cows is because you did not hit the industrial era yet. Englands population experienced a boom during the industrial age thus the resources were placed accordingly to mimic growth that actually happened in history...

What I did was look through history, learn which cities grew at what times... and then placed resources with prereq. techs in the right time period.

Interesting idea! although, this almost means I can't get a settler, 'till the industrial age, maybe you should put in the Thames? that way I can get irrigation, to atleast allow a settler?What I did was look through history, learn which cities grew at what times... and then placed resources with prereq. techs in the right time period. Damn, you must have done alot of reasearch:eek:. Do you have any plans? things I should look into?

"Damn, you must have done alot of reasearch"
hi PCHighway, you have no idea how much! :D

I definately do need help. First let me upload the newest version for you, then if you could try each playable civ and see how they work out. I recommend playing each civ (aside from neutrals) up until 300AD. ONce done we could compare notes to see how they made out. Afterwards continue testing each game up until the Middle Ages are over etc.

I have so far tried Rome and Japan and both are working fine. As for England I am going to take a look at them see if I can give them a bit of a kick start, maybe settler unit from the begining - let me fix this and then I will upload the latest version.

Okay Ill download right away, and try Japan. You mentioned you might add units? I see the civ that replaces the Aztecs cant use horses or Iron, But the Jaguar has increased attack, There are alot of Aztec units you could add. I also noticed That the middle eastern civs couldn’t build Knights? :D YES! (the Egyptians are giving my English some trouble {Monarch Level!}, Now at least I can look forward to knights :egypt: ) If you are going to add units, I have a million. Unless your talking planes\tanks. And could give you advice, for instance, The Camel, Mameluke, Horse Archer, Arab Horseman or cataphract
The eagle warrior
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28442
The alternate Jaguar Warrior
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29057
And a plumed Archer
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28337
Camel
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20866
Mameluke
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23146
Cataphract
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23224
Horse Archer
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18005&highlight=horse+archer
Arab Horseman
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20077&highlight=horse+archer


Btw:Hey Teturkhan, do you know if they give warnings before someone gets Banned?

sorry PCHighway, I haven't uploaded it yet - give me until tommorow.

The Amerindians (Civ that replaces IRQ. & Aztecs) can build mounted warriors but only until later in the industrial era, up until that point they cannot build any horsemen)... the horse resources is timed to show up in american in that age and not before...

As for the units, they must be original meaning they cannot be coversions from other games.

Banned? I am pretty sure they would warn you first.

Hold on the download
Okay Ill check it out.

This post is full of suggestions.
Hey Teturkhan, I tested the Russians up to 300ad. They have a good staring position, beside the uncomfortable fact that my scout was rendered useless by the forest. Just curiously, what are the playable civs? any playable ones on the America's? Also, perhaps the Europeans\Mediterraneans shouldn’t be able to build pikemen? They are very powerful. I must have wasted an hour punching down those punk Pikemen. This would give the Real civs a boost, you know, like something to look forward to?
the horse resources is timed to show up in american in that age and not before... Damn, How did you do that?!?!?!?! A minor problem is the Warriors in the beginning, by the gold they waste, you think their eating it. Which gives us a slow start in the tech, if I change it that is. Maybe they should start with 20 gold, instead of 10? before your next update, you might want to make the neutral civs, non-playable. Couldn’t this be done by making the certain civs, automatically in the game, period. That way you couldnt choose them, right?

I'm thinking of using your map for an upcoming scn I'm making (Cuban Missile Crisis)...just asking permission first. Would you mind? I want perfect accuracy (suckup, i know) for the game, some of the other maps out there are bad...

Very Nice I'm using it! Maybe not the mod though, possibly just the map!

I'm thinking of using your map for an upcoming scn I'm making (Cuban Missile Crisis)...just asking permission first. Would you mind? I want perfect accuracy (suckup, i know) for the game, some of the other maps out there are bad...

I have no probs in anyone using the map, just please mention in your readme that it is TETurkhan GWM that you are using - thats all :) and if you release a edited version of the map then please state "TETurkhan GWM - something something version"


PCHighway,
You are really going to love the finished product, I am putting everything I got into making this mod & map very well balanced...
thanks for your work with the Russians, I fixed the english BTW but still haven't uploaded the new version :p

See if you can test the others ones too! :goodjob:

Holy crap, nearly 3000 views. You can thank my annoying perpetual rambling for keeping it at the top of the Forum:p. LoL.
Im on the Chinese Btw, did you say I get the Great wall? Do I get it when I study Construction? Every things going well, This time I didn’t immediately declare war on the Great neutral civs, although im bidding my time They build bowman like crazy, absolutely NO spearmen, huh, when pikemen come, ill upgrade, and they cant, unless they go for longbowmen. Then Ill send some knights out there a give the Sino-Tibetans hell, with maybe some Help from the Altaics. Speaking of the Altaics, you know that 'Diplomacy editor' link I gave you? did you try using it? Maybe that’s how you can change the Speech. I doubt it though, It currently allows 16 civs.

If you wanted to set Diplo, then you would have to use Gramphos(es) Civ3Multi-tool. I think, that would work. I was checking out the units, Smoking Mirror's animations rock! And they're all original, try the Iron Frigate, Mobile Infantry, or Sailor. Balou’s Modern Infantry is another great unit. And you cant leave out Kinboats legendary Pre-Tanks. Nonnobs German units are great, but I don’t know if you could incorporate it into the game for all civs. Yaniv made the Flame Thrower, it looks great for the romans or another red civ. But The flame is Civ Colored! There are Pesoloco's Mines, naval and land. Ill think of some more. I remember I started making a ‘Mediterranean’ (not an actual Mediterranean map, but a generic inland sea) To make it original, I made the planes move, (like in Civ2, im told) Again Pesoloco’s name shows up:D. But I was wondering if the great unobservant public, would want that? Would they like it more, or less? I don’t know. But It didn’t matter, the Ai fell to my Unbalanced, all-powerful, un-match able, Helicopter. Speaking of which, you should check out the Apache Helicopter by Papajhons and Bone doc. If you want links just ask.

Btw the Gold and dyes disappeared on me, did you make them Natural resources? I like it though, makes it more realistic. But damn, I miss that gold, it gave me, like a million wealth.

fixed the english BTW but still haven't uploaded the new version:p Thats alright, Its already awesome:goodjob: In fact you might want to wait, to upload. To many updates might be bothersome. Unless of ‘course your testing:lol:.
Forgot to tell you about the fact that Oriental civs can build both archers and Bowmen.

In the new version, Sino-Tibetans can't build bowman (and the reason they build so many is cause they are dirt cheap :))

so so far England, Japan, China, Russia are done right?

I edited the diplomacy text, especially with the Altiacs - you might notice.

Gold & Dyes, I will look into that, I did increase the chances of certain resources disappearing but I didn't think I edited Dyes... anyhow I will look them over and see what I can do.

I will upload the latest version by this Sunday, September 8.
(I do not expect any more until after PTW comes out, unless there is a critical bug or flaw.)

I like the additional movement points for Horsemen. I just realized I wont be getting Knights though. This will make it a little mor difficult to take out the Sino-Tibetan. I like the additional movement points for Horsemen. I just realized I wont be getting Knights though. This will make it a little mor difficult to take out the Sino-Tibetan. I like the additional movement points for Horsemen. I just realized I wont be getting Knights though. This will make it a little more difficult to take out the Sino-Tibetan. Sunday? I better get testing. What I like the most is how techs go slow untill you reach Mapmaking, then everything speeds up like crazy. I was 7 techs behind the Sino-Tibetans, then got mapmaking before them, and got there world map sold that to the Europeans for 2 techs, than to the Altaics, for 2 more and then ripped of the rest of the civs Communications. For the map.:D

I just realized I wont be getting Knights though
you alright there PCHighway? or maybe your trying to give me a hint? :D

I gave the Chinese Bowman and dirt cheap. YOu can produce massive amounts of them this should help you out a bit.

The Chinese are resources rich, have many luxuries to trade, and thus a did curtail their ability military wise. In the new version the Sino-Tibetans do not get bowman which should seriously slow them down.

Tech rate. honestly I have no idea how it will turn out. I geared some cities to grow up to 12 million people (modern times). The main concern I have PC is how fast each age goes by, I want to make it so that it happens within right times.

aproximate times:
Ancient Era - 300AD
Middle Ages - 400-1750
Industrial 1700-1950
Modern 1950 - present

If you game is way off let me know.

:D the Chinese game is going great, so Ill play this one to the end. I started playing the Egyptians to play between turns, They have a great stating position, plenty of room to expand, and some free workers in the Congo jungle. But not much terrain for Shields. One thing I forgot to mention about China is that you have Peking as the capital, and Beijing is the second city. I know you know they are the same, so I thought I’d mention it.

Me worried?!??! Ha! I laugh in the face of the Sino-Tibetans 500 bowmen! Soon me and the Persians Will rise up and crush their Sniveling Archers! Then, we will call in the Help of the Altaics, while he is busy fighting them Ill send up MY 500 horsemen and , when the treaty expires, declare war on That fool.:satan: Then enlist the help of the Europeans, who, will attack the Mediterraneans. Then I will run over to the new world (America) and start settling and preparing for the Nuclear war.:smoke:

PCHighway,

Check your Email I just sent you one - and get back to me ASAP via email.

thanks,

Ray

E-Mail Reply.
I sent you others before, but I dont think you got those.

here is my email, it should work

teturkhan@hotmail.com

Ok sent another one, if this dosent work, Ill try that Private Message thing.

Early in the thread someone stated they thought plastic was made from petroleum, they are correct..... not only is pplastic made from petroleum, so is nylon, rayon, synthetic rubber, crayons, glues, inks... the list goes on forever.... which is why it is the worlds most sought after resource, black gold, it is definitely the resource with the most uses.

Hey Your Map is Excellent!

The only critic i have to make is about Argentina:

I think you may have missunderstood your source, Argentina is not a country with deserts!
The Patagonia (in spanish) may appear in the books as deserted, but that's in terms of population! It doesn't mean it's a desert!
It's more likely to be plains and grasslands, with some forests.
The Pampas (Buenos Aires, Cordoba, La Pampa) , it's all fertile grasslands.
Argentina is a big producer of food in the world.
Also have oil in the south, in Santa Cruz.

The Argentinian Mesopotamia (Between the rivers) it's also grasslands and forests (Entre Rios, Corrientes, Misiones) it's the north east of the country.

There are no deserts in Argentina...

Patagonia and the Lake District
South of the Rio Colorado, experiences a desert climate, although temperatures range from mild to subzero and terrain varies from bucolic river valleys to the gigantic, ice-capped southern Andes. Its cool grazing grounds support enormous flocks of sheep, and numerous fruit and vegetable farms can be found in the valleys. Patagonia also holds vast reserves of oil and coal.

See in my sources and probably most map makers (judging from the maps out there), indicates there are deserts in Argentina, however I guess there are lots of grazing grounds as well (maybe in between?), let me see what I can do and you can expect some changes in the next version, thanks for the heads up!

there's also a mistake in the other maps, as marla, etc.

the climate is very cold, but is not a desert like the african deserts. it's completely different, it's not in-between, it's Argentina strongest economy.

I believe the books refer to a desertic zone because of the low population. But it's no way physically near a desert :D

There are welsh and english living in the south. I guess they brought the sheep culture, etc.

The coal and oil are one of the most important resources in Comodoro Rivadavia - province of Santa Cruz

Could be in the middle north in Santiago del Estero. But there are lots of salt over there.

About Patagonia:

Starts at the south of Colorado River, end in the Tierra del Fuego. Physically it's a system of plateaus, some with more than 1000 metres, (3300 feet).
The weather is cold and dry-arid.
Vegetation: Steppe type.

both provinces are rich in Sheeps and Oil.

more than 1000 metres i meant metres of altitude.

Here's what the 2002 edition of TIME Almanac describes Argentina:

......Argentina is a plain, rising from the Atlantic to the Chilian border and the towering Andes peaks..........The northern area is the swampy and partly wooded Gran Chaco, bordering on Bolivia and Parguay. South of that are the rolling, fertile Pampas, which are rich in agriculture and sheep and cattle grazing and support most of the population. Next southward is Patagonia, a region of cool, arid steppes with some wooded fertile sections.

Yea, doesn't really sound like ALL desert to me.

I love this map. But I was wondering if anyone had made this map compatible with the DyP mod. I would like the map without all the cities already in place. So right now, I have to go and delete all those units that are lying all over the map. Why isn't there a 'delete all units' option in the editor?

When I load up the map in the editor all the resources are screwed up, obviously, because I have the DyP mod installed. So wine shows up where fish should be :crazyeye: . So I was going to go and switch all the resources to the correct ones, so that all the resources are still in the correct locations (and certain city sites are still well supplied with food for high population, etc.). But then I realized that the DyP mod has so many more resources that I would have to come up with new locations for those. So I said, to heck with that and after I selected 'restore default rules' (to use DyP rules) I selected 'redistribute natural resources'. Now I get fruit in tundra (because of forests) and Antartica is loaded with goodies. :mad:

Also I noticed in Antartica at the very south there are a few spots with rivers (tiny lakes). Don't know if that was intentional or not.

Bamspeedy- I would like the map without all the cities already in place. When you download, aren’t there two Mod. Files? In the folder? You could open your editor, then go to import, choose map, then choose GWM, (without the Cities) If you have to place the Resources yourself, maybe you should download the Modders edition. I noticed the 'Rivers' (that look more like lakes) in antarctica to.

Yes, I realized all those extra units are designated as barbarians, as at first I thought they were belonging to other civs. But I see there are barbarian settler/special ops units. I was thinking maybe those settlers where there for the human to capture them and found their own city. I don't want them there as I want to settle my own cities. Maybe those units are actually barbarian warriors/horseman and because of the DyP mod they appear as different units.

Barbarian Workers, these are merely there to highlight the slave trade, they will not force you to found a city where you find them...

There is also an option for you to play without cities and only resources but with my rules set...

I reviewed Argentina.

There are some areas in Argentina that are desert and many maps I have reviewed support this... As for Argentina not being fertile enough - you have to keep in mind that flood plains look just like deserts... infact when I looked over Argentina on my map most it is full of flood plains and thus very fertile...

The look of flood plains is decieving... hopefully in the future the graphic for this terrain will be modified.

it's true that it's a system of plateau and steppes!!
there aren't really deserts!
desertic weather doesn't mean it's a desert! and it's too cold to be a desert, but also there's no tundra.

des•ert

Pronunciation: (dez'urt),
—n.
1. a region so arid because of little rainfall that it supports only sparse and widely spaced vegetation or no vegetation at all: The Sahara is a vast sandy desert.
2. any area in which few forms of life can exist because of lack of water, permanent frost, or absence of soil.
3. an area of the ocean in which it is believed no marine life exists.
4. (formerly) any unsettled area between the Mississippi and the Rocky Mountains thought to be unsuitable for human habitation.
5. any place lacking in something: The town was a cultural desert.

—adj.
1. of, pertaining to, or like a desert; desolate; barren.
2. occurring, living, or flourishing in the desert: a desert tribe; a desert palm.
3. designed or suitable for wear in the desert, as cool, protective clothing: a big, wide-brimmed desert hat.

"An area having an annual rainfall of 10 in. (25 cm) or less is considered to be a desert. Some deserts have no rain for intervals of several years. Deserts and semideserts exist in some regions having up to about 20 in. (50 cm) of rainfall where evaporation is very high and loss by runoff is great. The largest desert regions of the world lie between 20° and 30° north and south of the equator, either where mountains intercept the paths of the trade winds or where atmospheric high-pressure areas cause descending air currents and a lack of precipitation. Other factors contributing to the formation of deserts include the amount of sunshine, rate of evaporation of water, and range of temperature. Temperature ranges in deserts are often extreme.

Plants of the desert have leaves and stems adapted to lessen their loss of water, and individual plants are more widely spaced than those in more humid regions; their roots form a spreading network sometimes penetrating to 50 ft (15 m) underground. Among the animals living in deserts of North America are species of squirrels, mice, bats, foxes, rabbits, and deer; reptiles, e.g., the Arizona coral snake, species of rattlesnakes, the desert tortoise, and the horned toad, gila monster, and many other lizards; a number of birds, e.g., the cactus wren, the road runner, species of owls, sparrows, and hawks; and spiders, scorpions, termites, and beetles."

All information from Infoplease.com (http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0857737.html)

As you can see from those definitions a desert is not restricted to sand and camels.

Guess that is the end of the discussion :D

on a side note - Look at the headaches your creating for me Kalel, already I am getting bothered to make my map compatible with your mod!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: Good thing we were already discussing that. :D

sebanaj - well what would you classify the terrain as than, in terms of civ3 terrain that is available? Just because we classify it as desert doesn't mean that it is as bad as what people normally think of when they think of 'desert'. Not all deserts of the world are just like the Sahara, for example. Plains I think *might* be giving them too much food for what that area provides.

Good thing we were already discussing that.

I saw you guys mention it briefly. Was anyone seriously going to do it? Right now I got 3 maps opened up. I'm keeping Teturkhan's map and the basic land formations the same (islands stay the same shape and size, for example), but I'm placing resources based on how Kal-El has them on his 180 X 180 map (I keep the # of resources the same, just sometimes a little further apart because of difference in map size), and Marla's map open for some geographical comparisons, and I got my almanac I am referring to.

I'm not going to be too picky on exactly where the resources and some extra mountains/land changes go, as long as they are pretty close. I changed Iceland more to the way Marla had it. Kal-El's was too fertile, while Teturkhan's was too icy. I added some forests to Greenland to allow a couple small cities there, mostly to serve as military bases/resource gathering. I added some mountains smack dab in the middle of Greenland, so maybe some resources could pop up there and you would have to make a colony there to get it.

I haven't invest too much time into this yet, so if anyone else was already doing this, let me know and tell me how soon you plan to have it done, so I don't waste time doing this...

Bamspeedy,

I would hold off on that unless yoiu just can't wait. The next version of DyP has 7 additional resources and the resources have been rearranged in the bic. I am going to have to redo the map to compensate for the new resource order. Any work you do on Tet's map will then be incompatible with the new version of the mod. Sorry.

The next version of DyP will probably be out before the end of the month. It will have all the new techs and a few more units/improvements/wonders, etc.

I thought I had changed Greenland to be more tundra. Didn't I release that version?

I have the v1.8 of your 180 X180 map for DyP that someone had posted in that thread where they fixed the correct starting locations. I downloaded the first v1.8 of that map that you had posted in your first post there, but the starting locations were screwed up. In this map you have Iceland as having all hills, forests (with plains/grassland underneath), and a mountain. I think if there was tundra underneath those forests it would be better. The sheep on the hills, fish and seal add enough food as it is. Greenland you have as mostly mountains with some forests. Some of the forests have grassland underneath. I think there is too much forests there allowing too many cities in greenland. Probably just have some forests in the south where there are today small cities, so the AI can settle on the forests.

I can tell you one thing about resources on my map, they are very precise in their placement (location)... I did everything to ensure correctness on this front, so in my view and I don't think anyone elses will be dramatically different (most of us have the same sources ;))

I think down the road you can expect a mod, which will have elements of DyP as well as mine in it...

anyhow... I got to get back to work...

PS-Bamspeedy, have you looked at the excell sheet and the readme that came with the download of my map? if you get a chance look it over you might find a number of things in there interesting...

(Kalel - I think you should change the name of your mod to Monster Mod - bloody thing is taking over my thread! :lol: )

with that definition said I'm right as nothing of that happens in the patagonia.

here are a few points for those of you who haven't had an opportunity to review the readme file yet:

* resources have been altered, so for example as pointed out a few posts earlier, though Iceland looks completely barren and not able to sustain a city, in actuality it does. I have modified the resources to help those cities. Even though there maybe only one fish resource, it probably produces more than the regular fish food output... I even have some resources appear later on during the industrial age etc to make the city grow even further... this as far as I know is the most in-depth effort for city and resource creation... Some resources such as horses, appear in central asia at the begining, later they spread out, into africa, europe and in later Eras the americas... The resources are not only placed right, but they actually move over time to mimic history...

* furthermore, the size of the cities will grow to how what they did in history... this might not sit well with some, so you can of course alter this.. however from a realism point of view, I dont think you are going to find resources, terrain, cities and their sizes come close to as historically accurate as this map... even the resources were researched to great length, not one, not two but multiple sources... then I had a Geologist look them over... IF there are any inaccuracies then it is a limit of the game itself and not error on my part...

To really understand how this map and mod works I highly recommend you look over the readme, glance over the excel sheet... otherwise you will miss many things that are not visually apparent just from looking at the map.. something do not even show up until later in the game....

On another point, where is my main tester??? PCHighway where are ya?

The Patagonia produce food for 300 millions of people.
yeha it should be plains, and according to the desert definition by Kal-El: none of those points describe the patagonia.
Rio Negro, Neuquen, Chubut, Santa Cruz are full of resources and food production.

It's deserted in terms of density of population!
It rains weekly.

http://www.peninsulavaldes.org/patagonia/geography/geogeneral.htm

it says it's a bit semidesertic towards the andes, but towards the coasts it's fertile.

here are a few points for those of you who haven't had an opportunity to review the readme file yet:

For some reason when I do open the readme file I get an error and it won't open. But I had read your notes about this, so I knew what you were wanting to do. I love the map, but playing towards the goals of this map (correct cities in correct locations with correct populations), I don't really care for. Great idea, just not for me.

Maybe if/when you get more techs/units in the mod I will give it a try. The tech tree that came with the original civ3 game is just too short for me. And I don't like being limited to so few of the original civs. All these other puny (handicapped) civs I don't like. I like to play with 16 fully capable civs. Where are my Americans! ;)

I can tell you one thing about resources on my map, they are very precise in their placement (location)... I did everything to ensure correctness on this front, so in my view and I don't think anyone elses will be dramatically different (most of us have the same sources )

Yes, yours is accurate, but I need other sources to include all the resources from the DyP mod that yours doesn't like copper, flax, olive oil etc. There are 14 other resources I would have to find spots for to put them on your map. When I see a wine I can easily switch that to fish as by the terrain it is easy to know what is what. But other times it gets way too confusing knowing which resources I had just changed and what was already there and not changed. I've given up on it anyways. Too many differences between land shapes (like Alaska) to put the resources very accurately.

The next version of DyP has 7 additional resources and the resources have been rearranged in the bic.

PLEASE tell me that you will arrange the first 22 resources in the same order that the original civ3 game has. This way when we load up an unmodded game we don't get wines where the fish should be.:crazyeye:

Feels like we are beating this issue to death. Firstly, if we are looking at my map you will notice Argentina is not all desert, in fact it is fertile with flood plains. Now if we are talking on whether or not Argentina has any desert, then all sources I have run by are conclusive in indicating that indeed there are.

You are welcome to make those changes to the map you wish, however at this point I am happy with the look of Argentina and don't feel there are any errors...

PS. The link you provided is in spanish, and unfortunately I dont know any :confused:

strange, has anyone else had a problem with the readme file???
Gosh there is so much information in there - hope its working...

response to Bamspeedy:
limited tech tree: I agree, the games original tech tree is somewhat short, I will be working on a dynamic tech tree, one that allows specialization beyond the current limits.... I will however only add techs as long game balance is not jeopardized, simply adding techs just for the sake of having more doesnt work for me...

resources: Same as techs, having more resources is great but I like there to be some application behind it, some depth... I dont care for resources just as additional cosmetics/graphics... I will be looking into adding more, but only after I am comfortable that it will add to the mod, make it more dynamic...

strange, has anyone else had a problem with the readme file???

It could be (probably is) my system, but I get a 'Wordpad has caused an error in MSWRD832.CNV Wordpad will now shut down' message. If you can put it in some other format, like notepad and e-mail it to me, that would be great. Bamspeedy@msn.com


resources: Same as techs, having more resources is great but I like there to be some application behind it, some depth... I dont care for resources just as additional cosmetics/graphics... I will be looking into adding more, but only after I am comfortable that it will add to the mod, make it more dynamic...

Yeah, I see your point. Bonus resources are pretty much just for cosmetics/graphics. No need to really add any more bonus resources (or any resources that would add food) to your mod since you have all the populations figured out correctly. Although it is kind of nice to be able to put seals up north in the coasts instead of fish and whales all the time. But if you re-distribute or randomize natural resources you end up with seal by the equator :o.

I guess you should kind of watch how strategic resources work in other mods to see how that affects the game before implementing them. Examples: How desperate are civs to gain this resource or that one? How do they value them? How good/quick are they at acquiring the resources they need at the appropriate time? In the DyP mod in some games the AI lacked any navy because they couldn't acquire all 3 resources needed for some ships. So some resources the AI does pursue and others it neglects depending on how it values that resource. Which I don't think anyone has figured out a perfect formula for yet.

I downloaded the map and switched the rules back to default rules (which would be the DyP mod for me), then re-distributed the resources. I then tried loading the game and it wouldn't load. I gave up after 15 minutes of watching the 'configuring scenario' message and it still looked like less than 10% of it was loaded. I have a fast computer and was expecting a few minutes wait because you said it does take several minutes to load, but I wasn't expecting that long of a wait. Perhaps there is a compatability issue of switching rules to some other mod?

Did I say that? If I did I was just kidding :D

Kalel & I will be working together in the near future on a merger effort... you can expect my mod to incorporate more elements of DyP ( I can hear Kalels evil laugh already "Muhahahaha")...

currently though I would suggest holding tight, if you really want to play with my map best to use my rules - if not, then wait some until Kalel and I get something put together...

Hey Teturkhan, just wanted to see how things were looking. Did you decide on the Civs?

31 Civs will be in the PTW version of the Mod. The Neutrals have been dropped, along with the Americans (wanted to recreate Colonization), and finally the Babylonians.
Here is a list of Civs included in the Mod:
-Rome
-Egypt
-Greece
-Israel
-Germany
-Russia
-China
-Poland
-Japan
-France
-India
-Persia
-Aztecs
-Zulu
-Tibetans
-England
-Mongols
-Spanish
-Vikings
-Turks
-Celts
-Arabs
-Carthage
-Korea
-Hungary
-Abyssinia
-Songhai
-Sioux
-Indonesia
-Khmer
-Incas

Three versions of the Mod:
1- Multiplayer Version
2- City Version: All 31 Civs, and 250 cities
3- Regular Version: Just Starting points (no cities)

I will give more details later- too busy right now working my butt off trying to get it completed :crazyeye:

:goodjob:!! Great to see it coming together! But; Teturkhan-
dropped, along with the Americans
-Incas
-Sioux
:confused: Do you mean the American Neutral civs??? Im sorry to see the neutral civs go, but glad to have the new ones:D. And in the end, I think you made a good decision. Im especially interested in the "multiplayer version", sounds interesting. Teturkhan-too busy right now working my butt off trying to get it completed yeah, i’d hate to have to think of the City lists!

I wanted in the Americans in it, but colonization is a big factor in my mod, so instead I opted to put the Incas, Aztecs & Souix in the Americas. I gave them a fair amount of cities from the get go, and curtailed their ability to produced settlers until around 1500. Otherwise they would have probably settled all of the Americas.

I loved the Neutral Concept as well, but with insufficient time to test and the problem with them being so powerful I had to go with the other alternative. Kalel and I talked about the possiblity if bringing them back in the future when he & I will work on a joint project.

I might though put Americans back in for the Multiplayer or No City versions of the Mod. Let me see what I can do...

how have your games been working out? any news?

teturkhan- curtailed their ability to produced settlers until around 1500. This means new units:D. But its important to remember that many people will want to play as the Incas or Sioux, etc. So not to make them to light handed. On the other hand, it sounds like a good gameplay experience, to start out with cities, concentrate on building up, and defending what you already have.teturkhan- how have your games been working out? any news? Well I tried a game as the Europeans, but gave the other civs a head start.(waited) The Rus had to be my biggest non-neutral competitor. and the way they are going, they would soon be stronger.

TETurkhan - Do you have the modder's version (map with no resources) still around somewhere? It looks like there was at one point, but I can't find it anywhere. Because I discovered what the problem was in trying to use your map for other mods. It's those units (workers/different military units) you placed with the barbarian camps. With other mods they appear as settlers, special ops, great leaders, mech infantry, etc. And when you try loading the map in a game it won't load (when using a different mod). Once I deleted all those units, the map loaded up just fine (and pretty quickly).

Playing on a Giga map though, I have to get out of some bad habits, like trying to get a city on every single island, and having some overlapping of tiles. Otherwise I hit the limit of 512 cities too soon.:blush:

I have it kicking around somewhere (just changed computers)...

Hi all this is a frog civ3 fan :-)

teturkhan congratulations for this great map! but where exactly can I download its very last version ?
Do you know if it works with Civ3 VF + patch 1.21 ??

On general topic : I am really disappointed by the game's gameplay. even if the keyboard helps a lot, to my mind it lacks of informations in the city and advisors screens, total amounts of culture per city, direct change of "mood" in the city advisor sreen, etc. etc.

Any news from a civ4 ??? :-)

Thanks for your help

Civ4?:D. Nah, maybe in a couple years though, you might want to look into the PTW expansion, thats Play The World. (it will be out in october)It makes a lot of changes, add 6 new civs, give multiplayer, better Scenario features, new terrain graphics, a Japanese unit pack? etc. But I havnt heard much about city-view changes. What exactly is the problem? I think in 1.21 patch it says how much culture in the upperright corner. how many turns to expansion anyway, and how much it has total, im sure this is in 1.29 patch. I dont think the mod works on 1.21

Teturkhan, I haven’t gotten around to much testing lately:(. because I decide to start a Prehistoric mod:lol:. remember that game I played on the modders edition map? The one without resources? I said I liked it without resources didn’t I? I liked it enough to attempt a mod anyway:lol:. But I promise to get testing again, Think Ill try the Indians this time. Do You have any Info one the next update? Also If Bamspeedy still needs the Modders Edition I still have it.

Play the World will include:

Multiplayer
8 New Civs
Completed Editor
11 Maps and Scenarios
New Terrain Graphics
Feudal Japan Unit Set
WWII Unit Set
Dinosaur Unit Set
and more. . .

BTW, love the map Teturkhan, but it is just too big for me to play a decent game on my sluggish computer. :(

this is the best map ever made, however ive made some small changes:D :D :goodjob:

Hey. Readme doesn't work for me either. Take out any weird fonts or pictures, maybe? Or put it into .pdf? Should I try to play it without reading this, or could I screw something up? Bye. :( :) :( :( :) :(

Hi all!

First, sorry about the Read-me file, I have a tendency to use weird fonts and I bet that’s what is causing the problem. :D
(don't sweat it though, there is nothing overly critical in there)

New-News:

• I posted some new snapshots on the first page - check them out.
• TETurkhan M&M next version is complete (will be available on the PTW disk)
• In the meantime I will return my focus to this version and fine tune it a bit, you can expect an update within a week.


That’s about it people!

OH Yeah! Just one more thing: I wanted to ask some of you - when you get a chance could you please rate this map. All you have to do is go to the bottom right of any page in this thread and click on where it says Rate This Thread. Then choose between 1-5 on how this map stands with you.

Thats it - thanks!

teturkhan-

• TETurkhan M&M next version is complete (will be available on the PTW disk)

:goodjob:

Well, glad your back! For a while I thought you gave up on this or something. Just what exactly do you plan change with this version? Does the new version that Will Be in the PTW, have no have Neutral civs? (you dont have to answer this though)
before you were talking about 'the PTW version' and you said you were getting rid of the Neutral civs, So does this mean, that in this version, (the one you said might come out in a week) the Neutral civs will still be intact?

Problem with neutrals is that the AI plays them hard - in the end they become anything but neutral. All my attempts to curb this have failed.

Should I keep them in for the update of this version? You help me decide - what are your thoughts on this - and how have your games playing the mod come along?

let me know and I will edit it accordingly.

Well. . . To tell you the truth I have only played and finished about two GWM games. but your right, that aren’t very 'neutral'. Have you tried playing around with the 'build often' and 'never build' options for civs? You might be able to do something there, like the neutral civs can never build happiness:satan:. (I had a rather difficult game were the Europeans joined forces with the Altaics and crushed me) My advice would be to take them out. And put them aside, perhaps to add them later.

Glad to see this thread is past 5000 - PCHighway now how much do I owe you? :p

:lol: Nah, how else would I get my post count up? Have you decided on the civs?

Actually I am still spending time on the PTW version - the update for it.

Do you recall the American Idea? Where they would be stuck on Bermuda Island until the age of sail, when I woudl give them ships and cheap settlers - to facilitate thier expansion. The problem with that was, who in the heck would want to play them up until that point? That would be the most boring game ever.

And that was the reason I didn't include them in the PTW version. But now I got to thinking, maybe I should make an american version - call it TETurkhan: American Destiny

Have everyone start out in the late middle ages. America with one city - New York. The hard part would be to adjust the cities and Civs. Celts were no where to be found by the industrial age, not as a state anyways. I could however just use the current city version but bring everyones techs to the industrial age.


Do you have any thoughts on the PC?

TET- TETurkhan: American Destiny
:hmm:. . . . It could work, but then maybe not. You would have to shape the entire scenario around the person playing as the Americans. It’s a plan. If you feel like you need to some makeup for leaving them out, then sure. However. I would make the Natives Americans, start in the ancient ages :eek:. but, make them scientific, or click 'build science often' so they could get some riflemen, soon????

Already got the basic guidelines ready - the game will start in 1500, the age of exploration, colonization etc... Americans will have to fight English for Indpendence... the Incas the Spanish and so on..

should be interesting :)

teturkhan- should be interesting:)
Certainly sounds like it;). But how will you do the set diplomacy? How is the Scn. going?

The Mod is awesome. I am very pleased with how it turned out. As for diplomacy - I came up with a few innovative tricks to initiate and guide diplomatic relations.

If you thought this map and mod were good, you are going to be totally up on the next version.

teturkhan- If you thought this map and mod were good, you are going to be totally up on the next version.:D New units? That would be cool.
teturkhan- I came up with a few innovative tricks to initiate and guide diplomatic relations. Is it the governments? I made an Irish mod, and the only way to get Ulster to start a war with the rest of Ireland, was to make two governments, and make the civs hate, or 'shun' each others government, then I made the oppressing civ's, aggressiveness on max.

It sounds like it is coming together, and you sound happy with it. I'll have to keep my eyes riveted to the Completed Scenario section, for this ones Release.

- over 80 new units

- 42 different resources

- 31 different Civs: Poland, Tibet, Abyssinian (Ethiopian), Khmer (Cambodian), Majapahits (Indonesian), Hungary & the Songhai (Present day Mali).

-religion now plays a factor

ONLY ONE "TEMPORARY" PROBLEM: playing on a giga sized map with 31 Civs is only feesable if you have a fast computer. I have done everything to reduce the wait time between turns but its still substantial. The solution: get a faster PC :D, drop the amount of Civs in one game or try some options like regicide etc.

teturkhan-
- over 80 new units Holy Crap:eek: 80 eh? Will these be on the PtW disk? Or will they have to be downloaded?
teturkhan-
- 42 different resources

- 31 different Civs: Poland, Tibet, Abyssinian (Ethiopian), Khmer (Cambodian), Majapahits (Indonesian), Hungary & the Songhai (Present day Mali).

teturkhan-
-religion now plays a factor Thought so;). I you changed what I think you did, you might want to alter the Tech tree a little.

I like this map very much. I only have a problem with antarctica..

1) It's way 2 big
2) I would like to see this map withouth Antarctica because it has no value in history. (without it, the mini map would become a bit clearer 2)

Yes I know it looks far too big - but no 2 dimensional map can ever give a correct image our world. There is always some level of distortion and the question comes down to where you want to see this distortion? There are a variety of different looking maps based on different projections. My thoughts were that since antarctica is barren and doesn't really effect gameplay that would be the ideal place to stretch it out etc.

Just keep in mind no map you see anywhere is going to give you a exact image of the world unless its done on a sphere.

Of course its not just Antarctica that gets distorted in that projection. :P As we have dicussed on numerous occasions Tet, that projection completely distorts the the continents as you move further from the equator. Greenland should not be the same size as South America, and the north coast North America and Asia should not be that distended. Its just not what the continents look like. The distortion in the southern hemisphere is less noticeable due to the lack of large land masses, excluding Antarctica of course.

That being said, this is the best map of this size, and is an amazingly accurate rendition of the earth using this particular projection. The attention to detail is amazing. And the love and affection that the creator felt for his subject matter, and his desire to perfectly replicate the given map projection are evident in the end product.

As Tet has said, there will always be some level of distortion with a flat image attempting to portray a spherical object.

The New TETurkhan Map & Mod will be posted this wednesday right here in this thread. At that time you can expect new snapshots of the map, details on the mod and of course the full download!

Only one catch - it is only compatible with PTW - so get to your stores and pick up the Game!!!

(Response to previous post) Thanx for the words of praise Kalel - especially when its coming from the creator of Double your Pleasure!

Wow. I am in AWE of your map. I have never seen a map so extremely accurate!!!

Question: i am curious of your "multiplayer" version of your map, PTW Mod Version and how you have dinosaur units on a screenshot.
Do you have PTW already??? Your modding seems so advanced. I assume the latest version will be shipped with PTW.

Also, Tell me more about the new units you intend to have on your mod.

Too bad i have a slow computer... :(
I'd love to maximize gameplay on this amazing mod!! :goodjob:

Is your latest newer than the version on the PTW disk?

Do you have a version of your map with "standard" resources?

This mod is on the PTW disk. I am afriad you need to purchase the disk to play the mod.

To answer the questions:

Is your latest newer than the version on the PTW disk? - warpstorm

Yes it is, infact there are substancial differences. Once you purchase the PTW Disk you will need to download this update for it.

Also, Tell me more about the new units you intend to have on your mod. - Tammi

Here are some new units & Tammi, you don't have to worry about the speed of your computer - its all a matter of making the right choices when you set up the game. You can choose regicide, less Civs or even play on a smaller map. There is a "Just Mod" version that you choose the map etc - these options should remedy any speed issues you have. However if you like to play with 31 Civs, on my world map with cities :D thats a different story.

Shofar Warriors, Israelites, these warriors were the ones that brought down the walls of Jericho. When they fight you can hear their horns blasting striking fear into their enemies! To build Shofar warriors you need both pieces (resources) of the Ark of the Covenant, one is located right besides present day Jerusalem and the other in around Sinai Peninsula (Egyptian territory). Only one problem, Christians and Muslims also have their elite religious warriors. The Christians have Templar Knights and the Muslims Ghazi Holy Warriors. They also required relics, and one of the relics they need is also around Jerusalem.

Pirates, over 12 of the most fearsome pirates who ever sailed the Seas are in the game. They have their own unique ships, and absolutely terrorize the Oceans of the world.

Lost World, in the remotest parts of the jungle, where few men have traveled lives a few remnants of a forgotten age... Dinosaurs!

The King is still alive, rumor has it he was seen somewhere in the desert around Las Vegas. Go grab a show if you’re in the neighborhood.

Those are all the details I will give for now, don’t forget, download the update when it’s put up – this will update the version that is on the PTW disk.

(Also note that the older version of the Mod will be terminated at the end of the week)

teturkhan, what you got for having your mod in ptw??

teturkhan, what you got for having your mod in ptw?? - Erez

Didn't quite understand the question :confused:

I think he want's to know how much money Firaxis paid you to finish this for them :D

Don't give the exact figure though - IRS might be eavesdropping....

Seriously though, congrats on being on the PtW disc TETurkhan - I'm looking forward to playing the new version :goodjob:

Oh, and I take it you didn't recognize Warpstorm's avatar, from a certain other board... :)

could you post the link to actually get the map....the link on your first post doesn't work...
thanks

if his link will work so firaxis will sue him...

erez87- if his link will work so Firaxis will sue him... Care to Explain? Do you think we are not allowed to put up mods only compatible with PtW? Or do you think, that just because the mod comes with PtW we are not allowed to get it from other sources? Unless I am completely blind-sighted, Many mods will be featured on, 'the best of the net'. And, i think many are, and will be allowed to be posted here. At Civfanatics.

The download for the old version is working now.


if his link will work so firaxis will sue him...-erez87

Sorry Erez87, I do not understand what your talking about.

I think his first post, he was asking if you got paid by Firaxis. Btw anything new going on?

I've been kinda busy lately, so I was wondering if you will 'alert' us on this thread, if you release a new mod in the completed scenario section?

Im supposed to get PtW in about 2 days, did you get it yet? Cant wait for it:D. The new units look awesome! I think that Civ iii shiped with with 66 or 77 units, And PtW will have 88 new ones!?!?! Not to mention the Civs. Speaking of which, are you going to correct the GWM starting positions, I know you had them there before, but you had 'Any Start' perhaps soon you should change that, or have you already?

Before, you were talking about a multiplayer 'challenge' thread;). Perhaps you should resurrect that idea.

EDIT- just checked out the pics, and I saw the 'godzilla pic' guess that answers one of my questions:D.

your mod is in PTW, isn't it? so it belong to firaxis now, right?

Erez87, I have been given permission to post the mod here, there is no conflict, and furthermore it is only compatible with PTW.

PCHighway, I have already provided a link to this thread on the readme file found with mod on the PTW disk. Though the map has become more than that, I think I will still use this thread as the primary one. I do have a thread in the mod section, but maybe I will just update it referring people here.

I am hoping to have the download ready by tomorrow, both the Full and just the Updated one.

Finally, I can say that I am playing one of the most enjoyable games of Civ ever. My Civilization is the Israelites and the mod is the TETurkhan city version (over 250 cities on a world map).

Details of the Game:

Zion Ambition

• In the beginning I only had two cities, Jerusalem and Damascus. The city version TETurkhan mod doesn’t start every Civ on equal ground. The Chinese, Indians and a number of other Civs have numerous cities giving them a huge advantage over others.
• To the west were the Egyptians, to the south the Arabs, in the East the Persians and to the North the Greeks. With hardly any land near by to settle, I knew I had to conquer to expand. The problem was all the Civs around me were much more powerful, and it was clear that only with a dynamic strategy could I expect to subdue them.
• Playing Israel I knew after sometime with the discovery of Philosophy, I would be able to build my powerful Shofar Warriors. They would be able to fight on equal ground with the best my enemies had such as the Hoplites and Immortals.
• But until the discovery of Philosophy I decided to concentrate my efforts on improving my land, and advancing my technology. I maximized the resources of my two cities; and though Damascus stayed relatively small, Jerusalem grew to be a magnificent city. My people were amongst the most happy and content in the world.
• Once my scholars discovered Philosophy, one piece of the Ark of the Covenant (the Ark is broken into two separate pieces) appeared besides my city of Jerusalem. As I looked for the 2nd one, I saw in the land of the Egyptians, around the Sinai Peninsula. There was little question to what I needed to do… war with Egypt would be a certainty. The Jews were about to go back into Egypt but this time not as slaves but as conquerors!
• I built up a huge army; all resources were spent to this end. So much so that my economy was on the verge of complete collapse. I mobilized my men, moving them along the border with Egypt. The moment had come, David was about to take on Goliath. I declared war, and my armies thrust forward into my enemy’s lands.
• Though they Egyptians were powerful, they were caught unprepared. Suez City fell to me with great ease. The question was would I be able to hold on to it. I knew in time the Egyptians could draw upon their vast wealth and resources and come back to crush me. There was no doubt left that I would have to move onwards, while still having the advantage of surprise.
• My armies moved forward, Cairo was next to fall then I besieged Alexandria. The defenders of the great city offered stubborn resistance, and many of my men were lost. From the south, Egyptians were sending reinforcements, with my southern flank exposed, plus the loss of so many men the situation became dire. Cairo & Suez were besieged by the Egyptians; if they fell I would be isolated deep in Egyptian territory.
• The heroic defense of Alexandria finally ended, and not a moment too soon. Leaving a small garrison there, I moved the bulk of my army southward to meet the challenge of the oncoming Egyptians. The war raged on, with great casualties on both sides. The Egyptians however were replenishing their losses at much higher rate than I. The longer the war went on, the worse my situation became.
• I knew had to sue for peace, but would the Egyptians accept? They clearly had the upper hand… I had to give them a reason, an incentive for peace. Their capital city of Thebes lay near by, if I could bring my men within the city limits, this could cause Queen Cleopatra to panic and capitulate.
• I moved 5 powerful units within the city limits, and then offered peace. My intuition was right; the Queen not only agreed to all my terms but also surrendered the city of Benghazi.
• In a short time, I had conquered 4 cities, more than doubling the size of my lands. Most importantly I had acquired the 2nd piece of the Ark of the Covenant and was now able to build my mighty Shofar Warriors.
• Once again all effort, resources and manpower were spent on enlarging the army. Soon it was one of the largest and most powerful in the area, but this came at a price. Land development was suffering, research was stagnate, and few wonders or improvements were built. My empire was a geared toward one end… War.
• My aim was to control the Eastern Mediterranean. Only one port city remained between me and this realization. The Greek city of Antioch. The Greeks were more powerful than the Egyptians, their empire stretched from Greece, through out Anatolia, with a number of ports along the Black Sea. I mobilized my men to Damascus, a total of 25 Shofar Warriors. Declared war, and my troops poured over the border onto Antioch. The city fell after a brief resistance, giving me confidence to move further in looking to maybe take Smyrna or Trabzon.
• The Greeks however were much faster to respond to this invasion than the Egyptians. My troops didn’t even make it to two cities, and were stopped dead in their tracks half way there. The war ensued in the mountains of Anatolia, the Hoplites wreaked havoc on my attacking Shofar Warriors. The Greeks replaced their losses, putting two men on the field where they had lost one. Soon my troops were vastly outnumbered. My ambition had got the best of me, and now my once great invasion looked to be turning into a rout. Beaten on the battlefield I sued for peace. The Greeks demanded war reparations; I conceded giving them many of my workers. To my surprise however I was able to keep Antioch, which was after all my primary goal.
• The Greeks showed me how little attention I had given to my economy and that though I built a huge army, I could not sustain a prolonged war. My wars would have to be over quickly, but what if they didn’t end this way? If the Greeks hadn’t of accepted peace, I would have surely been doomed.

Zion Ambition II

• My empire now stretched from Benghazi all the way along the coast to Antioch. The Eastern Mediterranean was becoming an Israeli Lake, but I still had to deal with those pesky Berbers (Pirates), in particular the infamous Barbarossa brothers. A plan to build a powerful fleet was put into the works, but before implemented my attention was drawn elsewhere.
• From the East emerged a new threat. An envoy from the Persians came, demanding tribute. Pompous Persians, who did they think they were? I was not some petty power they could push around. My thoughts were that they were bluffing, merely trying to scare me into handing over my Gold. I refused their demands, and they immediately declared war.
• This was unexpected, obviously they were relying on their military might – that or they were just plain stupid. This mattered not now though, fore it was not a time of thought but one that demanded action. War had been declared and was time to let loose the dogs of war.
• The Persian Empire was huge, from the Caucus Mountains through modern day Iran. To the immediate East however lay the famous Arab city of Baghdad, unless I could get a right of passage agreement from the Arabs I would have to go around them to the North. Many Arab units were within my borders so it made sense to have a formal agreement between us. I sent envoys to them requesting free passage but much to my dismay I was denied. There was no way I would allow their troops to remain within my borders if I couldn’t pass through theirs. I demanded they remove their men and the Arabs declared war.
• Now my war was against two enemies, the Persians and the Arabs. So be it, the Arabs would be first to feel the brunt of my forces, especially since Baghdad was right in my path. In a single turn over 30 units were in position to assault the city. Baghdad was a huge, much larger than any other in my realm. Only after the 20th unit had attacked did the great city fall and even then fighting went on into the streets forcing me to garrison 15 units to maintain order.
• In a single turn, I had broken the back of the Arab Empire, took away its most prized city. Arab resistance after this point waned, and my focus shifted primarily on the Persians.
• My troops poured into Persian territory. Susa fell to me due mostly to the Persians mobilization which was slow. Immortals came from the North (Caucus), and from the East. Shofar Warrior stats are 3A-3D, while the Immortals are 4A-2D, the key was to initiate the attack, whoever attacked first could expect to win. To this end I moderately successful, but after much time our forces were locked into a stalemate.
• Every time I would try to put an end to it by requesting peace the Persians would demand Susa back. That however was an impossibility, there was no way I engaged in this costly war to walk away empty handed. I tried to scare Emperor Xerxes as I had done with Cleopatra, by moving a number of men within range of his capital. He did not even flinch, instead laughed at me saying that time was on his side. He might have been right, but luck was on mine.
• The Emperor personality or lack of had made him many enemies. The Turks from Central Asia and the Indians both on his Eastern Flank attacked him. He now had to fight a two front war, and I could see his men moving away from the front with me and towards the East. His once impenetrable lines of defense became weak, and my men broke through. The beautiful city of Isfahan fell. Knowing the Persians situation was desperate I initiated peace talks but the stubborn old mule was defiant, still laughing at me saying I did not have what it took to stomach a long tough war. Though my lines were overextended I pushed on, this time for his capital. After much fighting I conquered the Persian capital of Persepolis and it was now the Persians who came crawling back asking for peace, which I of course accepted on very favorable terms to myself.
• Peace with the Persians was long in coming, I threw everything I had at them, and only the Turks and Indians coming into the war tipped the scales in my favor. Settled up with the Persians I would now finally be able to deal with the Arabs, who though quite silent since the fall of Baghdad were still carrying out guerilla warfare against me. I regrouped a large force in Baghdad, then moved southward to Basra, and though they resisted it was futile, the city fell without a single loss to my forces.
• I pondered my next move. Much time had elapsed since the start of this Great War; my empire was very large, stretching from Egypt to Persia. The smart thing to do would be to consolidate my gains. Peace was sought with the Arabs which they promptly & gratefully accepted.
• Now it was time to rest, build improvements, work the land, and make my people happy. War would find me soon enough, but for now there would be peace in the Middle East.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/Zion_Ambition.jpg

Will Continue

Sorry to interrupt your story but. . . Holy crap:eek:! This story is very good, and should be used to promote your mod.

-Stories Forum- (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=47)

There is no doubt in my mind that your combination of Unique specified civs, and a very accurate and detailed map of your surroundings, makes this mod one for the ages. The Ark of the covenant is a ingenious idea, it seriously puts nonpareil depth into the game. And as a result, The Ark would make the game very Historical, as capturing a 'relic' would would inspire the civ with Zealotry, and give the aforementioned civ a fairly-brief influx in power. Often times in my games I find myself with no enemies left that pose a threat. With your map, and your positioning of cities, "there is always someone left to conquer." World domination in fact, doesn’t seem possible, Without a great amount of work. The fact that this mod spans the world, and doesn’t center on one country, is remarkable. I could hardly imagine a Mod of 'the expansion of Rome' or 'Wars of the Greek city-states' to be more detailed. The fact that you created two new resources just for the gaming pleasure for whoever chooses the Israelites, is very telling for what you did with the rest of the mod.

Things im concerned about, are (again) balance, I know you don’t need or want it to be too balanced. But Israelis trials do sound very difficult. Perhaps in a later edition of the mod, you can give them some type of 'second' UU In the modern age. Or make them the only of the Middle eastern civs to build modern armor?

thanks PCHighway,

I know I put a lot of work into making this map and mod as detailed as possible... some of the concepts are unique and innovative, but as you said how does it effect game balance... well I can say that the latest version is the best one done to date... wait time between turns has been reduced, the mod and map have a strong historical feel to them, and the best part I have give 3 ways to play...

1-the city version (my favorite)
2-Just the World map
3-Just the Mod (you choose the map)

The attention given to detail was almost at an obsession level, I did next to no guess work, virtually everything was based on facts, formulas etc... I destroyed my atlas all together, went through 7 notebooks (full of projections and notes)... looking at all the work I did makes me wonder if I should see a shrink :crazyeye:

I think you will like the mod, curious to get your feedback once you pick up the PTW disk...

hey teturkhan, I'm really enjoying your story, I was curious, did you put victory point locations in your mod? Like each city would have a certain amount of victory points depending on the size or whatever. i think that would be kinda neat.

that a great idea Downer, however I haven't done anything like that for this version. Look for it on the next one though, most likely give extra points for certain cities etc.

I have however done somethings like place resources by certain cities that make them worth your while to conquer... like Jerusalem has holy relics for Christianity, Islam and Judaism.... these relics (resources) are need to build religious type units like Templar knights, Ghazis, or Shofar Warriors... all three of these units are very powerful and can change the balance of power on a global scale... I noticed now that I added this feature, I am always aware of who is controling Jerusalem, and making sure nobody can build those units (except me of course lol)...

Its not much of a story but its true, and as I said it is by far the best game I have ever played on any of the Civ Games. It is that fun... but don't take my word for it, give it a try yourself... after playing the Israelis I think I will give the Incas a try... there is something appealing about having the Europeans discover the Americas only to find one HUGE POWER HOUSE! Muhahahahahaa!!! LOL

The map is great, Tet; I am glad you were able to get it into PtW.

*whistle* This is a pretty sweet looking map. Do you mind other modders tinkering with it as a base for their own projects (provided due credit is given, of course)?

No I don't mind.

If its a variation of the map then I would like it to be stated as follows: TETurkhan - TomL version

If its a mod, then simply putting it in the readme is fine :)

thanks for your compliments people, glad your like it.

Oh TomL, best to download the latest version - its improved substancially over previous ones. Look for the download in an one hours time.

Download is ready - if you encounter any probs let me know.

Happy Gaming!

It looks good; I will play a game of it tonight.

Have you decided where you would like to add Victory Locations yet?

hey when you download it let me know Kring, lets get a multiplayer game going (just the mod Version), not with the world map but somethign smaller - random generated one.

MSN me at teturkhan@hotmail.com

The 54 MB file is uploaded to the CFC file server. I will upload the full install later today. :)

There are some problems with the download, will be corrected soon.

hmm for some reason the links arent working for me, i'll try back later..

the download is working now

Hi teturkhan,

Yesterday I have played about 6 hours your PTW Version Test of Time Map. (Regular)

Somehow it was too easy in regent. (I am not a professional player in Civ3) maybe because of the many good ressources in the starting points.

The worst thing was that there wasn't any Iron in Persia. I couldn't build any Immortals until early middle age. I have found a place near Siberia, but how should I build a road to the main country for importing them? Its crazy, so I gave up.

I know that you want to make this map realistic but Persians had iron. ;) Did you checked also other ressources besides food?

Besides where are the Babylons? :king:

Your Map is fine, but I hope your new one is better, since I couldn't even irritate Persepolis. :eek:

greetings
Houman

I hope you have the update? The update has many changes in it (the version on the disk is over a month old).

As for Iron, even with the new map it can still be a pain in the butt to get. I suggest you find other civs that have iron, there are lots on the map, some places like Russia will have many. Trade with them, if this is not your style then conquer near by lands that have the resource. There is iron in eastern Anatolia go for it! I trade for what I need, if they don't trade with me then I take it from them! IF I were you, I would launch an attack against the Greeks, secure that iron resource, this way you force them to trade to get it or fight you, but by that time you would have built your immortals :)

As for the tech, I agree, the old version the techs moved too fast, so I slowed it down now, giving Civs an opportunity to build roads and trade etc... now the opposite is true, techs move way too slow!!! But its getting better, I hope to have some new BIX files with the edited tech rates up by tomorrow (these would be used with the new updated version)...

Just so you know when placing resources I made sure there was enough for everyone minus a few... on this map there are 24 Iron deposites, meaning if you play with 31 civs 7 of them will be screwed... not fair but this game isn't about being fair, I want some Civs to die (Muhahahah) :) It really adds to the strategy when some resources are lacking, to have a better understanding of the map (I dont recommend it but...) check out the excel sheet that is in the TETurkhan scenario folder. There you can see a complete break down of all resources and their locations, this might help you to better plan your strategy...

once again my suggestions:

1- download the latest version
2- look at the excel sheet to get an understand of where resources are located...
3- don't automate your workers, only after you have done the most important jobs should you automate them - cause if you wait for them to connect a road to a vital resource it could take more time, and in some cases that extra time makes all the difference.

happy gaming and I hope this was helpful!

I have a query about production costs in the PTW version of the Test of Time mod.

You say in your readme that the maximum unit cost is 1000 shields - but actually the number you put into the editor for the shield cost is multiplied by 10 in the game, so actually the maximum cost is 10000. But it seems that you made battleships, aircraft carriers, etc cost 1000 and 900 respectively, in the editor. This means that in the game they are going to cost 10000 and 9000 shields respectively. Which means that even if you have a very high production city, it will take at least 70-100 turns to build these units! Of course it is possible to rush production, but who would be able to pay 40,000 gold for a single battleship? Maybe the human player would be able to save up, but the AI is doomed - it will keep building these units for hundreds of turns...

Please correct if I am wrong (I haven't actually played the mod yet, I only investigated the bix files), but it seems to me that the mod would become unplayable in the modern era when units are so forbiddingly expensive.
I know some resources give 10+ shields and gold, but I'm not convinced that it will balance out such ridiculously high unit costs.

Sorry for this rant! :)
On the bright side, this mod looks fantastic and is indeed very detailed. Well done! And congratulations on getting it into PTW! :goodjob:

(If you've done something to correct this in the update, then I'm sorry - I wasn't able to download the update yet)

Maybe this is answered somewhere and I missed it, but I am playing the map and mod on the PTW disk, and I've just gotten down to the south of France.
Where are the Pyrenees? Is this fixed in this new updated version, or is there some reason they are not there?
Otherwise, I really like what you've done here.

LoneWolf: I am not familiar with the term Pyrenees. Can you explain pls.

sgrig: Certain advances cause certain resources to pop up. These will give you additional shields to help facilitate your purchase. Yes I know some units are incredably expensive, like Aircraft Carriers etc, however this in my view is more realistic. How many Aircraft Carriers are there in the world? In my mod, these ships cost a fortune BUT they are incredably powerful. Furthermore, you can hurry production to build them, and if you have a large enough empire/state you should beable to afford this. One city alone will as you said take a very long time to build such units, but thats unrealistic anyway. Such units should require the resources, manpower of an entire country to build.

hope this clears some issues. again as I said before the new version has many fixes and updates (it has to its 54MB big!) :)

ITs the mountain range on the border between France and Spain. Its a very important goegraphical feature, which really needs to be there. :)

on my map there is a thick border line running across this area you are speaking of which makes it difficult to see... I looked at it closely but haven't noticed any large moutains... by large I mean over 2000 meters high...

if you can indicate to me where such moutain of this height exist I will put them in for the next update :)...

Well, honestly, you probably ought to get a different map. Check Marla's map, she's got them in the right spot. The highest peak is 3400 meters.
Here's a link:
http://best.da.upm.es/events/sc02/pyrenees_html

Originally posted by teturkhan
LoneWolf: I am not familiar with the term Pyrenees. Can you explain pls.

sgrig: Certain advances cause certain resources to pop up. These will give you additional shields to help facilitate your purchase. Yes I know some units are incredably expensive, like Aircraft Carriers etc, however this in my view is more realistic. How many Aircraft Carriers are there in the world? In my mod, these ships cost a fortune BUT they are incredably powerful. Furthermore, you can hurry production to build them, and if you have a large enough empire/state you should beable to afford this. One city alone will as you said take a very long time to build such units, but thats unrealistic anyway. Such units should require the resources, manpower of an entire country to build.

hope this clears some issues. again as I said before the new version has many fixes and updates (it has to its 54MB big!) :)

OK, thanks. :)

I'll wait for the update before starting a game with the mod and submitting more comments! ;)

EDIT: I just thought about this a bit more and came to the conclusion that such high unit costs mean that Communist governments won't be able to build any of the modern units, because communists cannot pay to rush projects, they can only pop rush, but it is practically impossible to have say size 100 cities! So communist governments will inevitably be stuck with industrial units, which will lead to their downfall in the modern age! (Which could be regarded as realistic).

SGRIG: Didn't Communism fail? - whoops forgot about Castro and China:)
And as for population of cities - in this mod they can reach levels of 70 plus, depending on the city.

LoneWolf: Well, honestly, you probably ought to get a different map. Check Marla's map, she's got them in the right spot. The highest peak is 3400 meters.

This statement I really did not care for. It feels like you are trying to create a level of competition between our two maps. If I found some areas in Marla’s map that could use improvement, I would simply post a message, give reference to some sources and that’s it. I definitely would not say oh take a look at Kalel’s map he has this and that (not saying your map isn't all that Kalel:)) But seriously SGRIG, what the heck was that? If I didn’t know any better I say you were trying to stir things up ;)

Anyhow, I encourage everyone’s input, but not just quite in the way you made that statement. Regardless though, thanks for your input, and after reviewing a few sources I have decided to add a few mountains in that region.

Actually I believe LoneWolf said that not Sgrig;). The reason I know of the Pyrenees is because of the prehistoric Cave painting's located in that region. Also Isn’t Accelerated production on?

Spain and France have perfect shape. If I throw one mountain in the Pyrenees region it distorts things. I have tried different combinations for the past half an hour but with no success. Finally I remember why I didn't put them in there in the first place ;)

Anyhow, see what you can come up with, maybe you will have better success than I.

Yeah I mixed up there names (justed fixed it a second ago), so have you got PTW yet PCHighway? cant wait to have a multiplayer game with you on the City version Mod

:D

Arrggg! I Do have play the World but I got a scratch on my original CD when Uninstalling. I did see your mod, though and those Warrior monks looked awesome in the 'extras' folder. Anyway, I'll most likely pick one (original Civ iii) up on Sunday.
So close yet so far.

Can't you send in a scratched CD for partial credit? I thought I heard something like this a while back - worth looking into.

I am, actually. But still, I need It Now! I'll see what happens. Just curiously I heard (in the manual) you can turn of cultural Flipping. Is this incorporated in your mod? It looks like i will fulfill my promise, and get a custom Avatar before I play PtW.

I hate culture flipping but in this mod it has taken on a role that is vital for historical feel. It doesn't happen often but places where it does is ususally where similar events took place.

You can of course turn this option off if you so choose.

No:D. I like it to, Just pointing it out. So it seems you got the One click Installer working? But speaking of these options, I always thought that Civ III went to fast, If you say you made the techs more expensive, and gave the units more shields, then It would (realistically) pay to have a standing army. Correct?

The ancient era goes by slow in all three mods. Having a standing army is a must. The difference in being able to build archers vs warriors can make you or break you. Technology hardly even plays a factor in the ancient era, I usually set it at 10% and wage war and nothing but. This is great when playing 31 Civs cause a few usually get knocked off. However as time progresses, it will play a larger factor.

I am debating to make tech research easier but haven't quite decided. As a matter of fact i am testing a game now, and based on it I will decide what to do.

Actually Lonewolf made a good point about the Pyrenees, but I think it's not that important on the scale of this map. ;)

By the way, Teturkhan, do you know when the update will be available for download?

I'm getting impatient to play the mod, but I don't want to start a game before I get the update.

yes it was a good point, but I couldn't do it...

Update - should be available soon - really sorry about the delay.

Hey, no offense intended. I didn't mean to compare your's to Marla's, only to give you an example.
Still, with all due respect, you are the one who has advertised this as the best map ever. It's only fair, therefore, to compare it to other maps. I don't see how you can object to adding a geological feature that is clearly there. It does affect gameplay greatly, since the Pyrenees are a great place to create a defensive line.
But hey, its your map, do what you like. I can add them myself; no big deal. As I said, I think the rest of your work on this is excellent (I'm playing it right now and its great), and I don't mean to be difficult.:)

Hey, no offense intended. I didn't mean to compare your's to Marla's, only to give you an example

- you pointed out an error on my map, then used Marla's as reference... by doing so you intentionally or not are implying Marla’s map is accurate and mine isn't... and that I should refer to hers as if hers is the standard. This in itself is revealing and indicates you have bias for her map.

Still, with all due respect, you are the one who has advertised this as the best map ever. It's only fair, therefore, to compare it to other maps.

-So basically you are here to make me eat my words is what you’re saying? Go for it and compare, but what exactly is your criteria? Do you base it on correct size, shape, terrain or a balance of each? Marla's map may have mountains where you like them, but I think my Spain and France look more accurate shape and size wise. Does this mean my map is better than hers or hers is better than mine? No, not at all, it comes down to people’s preference. However to state my map is inaccurate in comparison to hers is very misleading and not appreciated.

I don't see how you can object to adding a geological feature that is clearly there. It does affect gameplay greatly, since the Pyrenees are a great place to create a defensive line.

-I don't object LoneWolf, not at all. I do want to put the mountains in there,but when I tried months ago when first making the map, Spain became distorted. Thus I left them out, and besides when designing a world map how much time can you possibly spend on one area? If you can place mountains in the Pyrenees and not distort the shape, then I will be more than willing to add the changes. As for the mountains greatly affect game play. It is a nice defensive line as you said but my winning the game has more to do with many other things than just a few mountains.

Well, never mind, then.

Hello,
Please excuse my ignorance. I just wanted to clarify that this forum is indeed the only place to get the update for "TETurkhan Test of Time (Map & Mod)"? Thank you for your time.
Andrew

Downloads are good to go - available on the first post of this thread.

Oh no! I got upto 92% of the download, but then it just stopped and wouldn't go any further! :mad:

EDIT: The download finally finished!

TET, excellent job on your map. :goodjob: It looks like you poured a great deal of effort into it, and I'm glad they put it on the PTW disk. After posting, I'll download your latest version and try it out.

Ok, after the compliments...any chance you will make a new version that's 362 X 362?

(Yes, we ARE a demanding lot... ;) )

You should post the additions and changes in the first post when you create a new patch. I for one would love to know what has changed from 1.6 to 1.65.

Originally posted by sgrig
You say in your readme that the maximum unit cost is 1000 shields - but actually the number you put into the editor for the shield cost is multiplied by 10 in the game, so actually the maximum cost is 10000. But it seems that you made battleships, aircraft carriers, etc cost 1000 and 900 respectively, in the editor. This means that in the game they are going to cost 10000 and 9000 shields respectively. Which means that even if you have a very high production city, it will take at least 70-100 turns to build these units! Of course it is possible to rush production, but who would be able to pay 40,000 gold for a single battleship? Maybe the human player would be able to save up, but the AI is doomed - it will keep building these units for hundreds of turns...


I agree those numbers are extremely high. If it is done to limit the amount of the unit in the game it should not make it near impossible to build. It would keep the AI in a deadlock of production in its sea cities. I would definately like to see a version of this mod without that.

Ok, after the compliments...any chance you will make a new version that's 362 X 362? -bartdanr

Thanks, I am glad you like the map. As for coming up with a larger one, that is highly unlikely at this point, especially a world map. The wait time between turns is already the single most problematic issue with maps this size. Anything larger, unless the map was mainly ocean would render the map unplayable (unless you got an insane amount of patience and time).



You should post the additions and changes in the first post when you create a new patch. I for one would love to know what has changed from 1.6 to 1.65.-Kanaric

Good point, the reason I didn't put it up was because version 1.6 was up for only a day. I did not want to confuse people with more text, and I figured only a handful downloaded this version anyway; and to be honest, I just don't have the time - trying to get the download ready, updating the readme, editing the map and so much more. I am a one man show, and at times it gets difficult to keep up. I only posted 1.65 last night, this is the next morning – so give me some slack please.


You say in your readme that the maximum unit cost is 1000 shields - but actually the number you put into the editor for the shield cost is multiplied by 10 in the game, so actually the maximum cost is 10000. But it seems that you made battleships, aircraft carriers, etc cost 1000 and 900 respectively, in the editor. This means that in the game they are going to cost 10000 and 9000 shields respectively. Which means that even if you have a very high production city, it will take at least 70-100 turns to build these units! Of course it is possible to rush production, but who would be able to pay 40,000 gold for a single battleship? Maybe the human player would be able to save up, but the AI is doomed - it will keep building these units for hundreds of turns... - sgrig

I agree those numbers are extremely high. If it is done to limit the amount of the unit in the game it should not make it near impossible to build. It would keep the AI in a deadlock of production in its sea cities. I would definately like to see a version of this mod without that. - Kanaric

Thanks for you input. This raises some good points, however as I have already stated on a few occasions, resources have been adjusted accordingly to help facilitate such large purchases. There are many checks and balances that I implemented to maintain game play integrity. Wanting a new version of the mod just based on a quick look of some stats is premature. This very issue might not even be a problem; only with actual playing or a very in-depth review of the mod would you be able to come to such a final & correct conclusion.

Deleted - accidentally double posted

Might be just me, but if teturkhan says it works better to bring up the reality, then I for one wont argue. As I said before, To me the Civ game went way to fast. Besides, all these new resources, by having one near a city, you would think that cities production would cut it down to say, half, Im not sure, but by making the initial price bigger, you have more room to 'cut away' for certain cities, just put 'this' resource by here, and 'that' one here well lets say ‘this’ one gives the civ a shield bonus of ---- and ‘that’ one gives -----.

EDIT - Damn! Foiled again!!! Well on the bright side, I was right.

Btw, Teturkhan, I got a new disk today (about an hour ago) and The game works fine, I will start a new game soon, but if you want to play an online game, im all for it ;). Just name the time. Also, I should I skip ahead and play the update, or the mod that comes with the city version on the disk? In game, You say certain civs get a head start? Well, when we play online I think I will be <cough> <cough> China <cough>.

Is it just me, or is the new forums not registering my posts quick as usual?

Definately get the update, it will make the mod considerably more enjoyable.

PM me if you want to play a game, should be interesting :)

Teturkhan- PM me if you want to play a game, should be interesting Interesting, eh? No fair you made the mod! I change my mind, whatever civ I choose It will be faaaaaar away from yours:p. I will Pm you, but be on the look out, I have a strange suspicion my other PM's didn’t get through.

Hey, your map looks great!

However, I just downloaded the .EXE file, and it won't work. When I click on it, it says it has performed an illegal operation and quits. Any ideas?

the server that the downloads are on is a bit unstable... ensure you have the full download (53.9MB for the update and 88.5MB for the full version), some people have told me their downloads were cut short so this could be the problem.

if not however, let me know

I think it's me, not the file. For whatever reason, it won't launch. I tried it with another file.

Would it be possible to post a .zip file of it? I don't what is wrong with my computer. It should open this.

I would love to but right now I am working to get this download stable - sorry.

What operating system are you using?

I'm on Windows 98. The icon shows the little books coming out of the box, and it used to work. Ive ran plenty of executables after downloading. I'm stumped. Oh well. I can wait for the .zip file, so no rush. I have to make a wedding website anyway. Ugh.

thats probably the problem...
I have the zip file right now, you will however have to manually install it...

look for it in the first post of this thread - probably tonight or tomorrow..

Thanks, TETurkhan, it's much appreciated. I'll download it when I get home tonight.

One question I've always wondered about. Is Europe able to support a reasonable amount of good size cities?

Originally posted by PCHighway
Interesting, eh? No fair you made the mod! I change my mind, whatever civ I choose It will be faaaaaar away from yours:p. I will Pm you, but be on the look out, I have a strange suspicion my other PM's didn’t get through.

I would be interested in playing the game as well.

I actually got around to playing the updated version - so far I really like it! Excellent job, Teturkhan!

Putting up the settler costs was a great idea - although it makes expansion so much harder, it actually does give more realism to the game. I'm currently in about 2500BC, playing as Russians, on start locations only, and with mass regicide enabled (on Monarch level)

I still only have 2 cities (and actually a good portion of AI civs also have only 2 cities), but I've already got the Pyramids in Moscow and I'm at war with Germany!

By about 3000 BC I already knew most of the Civs in Europe, Asia and N. Africa, and this made tech trade really easy - so with science only set to 10%, I'm one of the most advanced civs.

I actually got around to playing the updated version - so far I really like it! Excellent job, Teturkhan! - SGRIG

Thanks, just hope it all works out smooth. I am guilty of mostly testing the city version of the mod with 31 civs and at the hardest level. Everything there seems to work fine, however I am suspect of the tech research rate. I assume your playing the world version without cities. Ensure to expand and grab enough cities, and don't hesitate to hurry production because of the hit your population will take - I have made one citizen worth lots of production.

One other point, find out where the largetst cities in history were, and build a ones in those locations. Even if the region is initially lacking in resources, it most likely will grow over time.

Finally, who is up for a game on this scenario?

We need to choose between 3 versions, city, world & random map. Then we can assign 8 civs to people, and choose method of play (I recommend email game - since getting upto 8 people to play at one time can be very difficult). Email will enable all of us to have around a turn a day - yes its slow but I for one don't mind. We could form a thread, like a weekly gazette of world events telling whats going on. Though turns would go by slow, people could keep themselves busy by scheming, plotting, forming alliances etc... you might even find the write ups and dealings more interesting than the actual turn :)

if your are interested, drop me an email (email only pls, not in this thread)... I will at the end of the week post the people who are in - remember a maxium of 8 Civs, so be quick and choose your Civ. Civs will be given according to who asks for them first. I will do the gentlemen thing and choose the last available civ.

This should be interesting and please make sure you understand the mod, changes, strategies that work etc before we start... I don't want people in the middle of the game quiting saying they didn't know how it worked etc - no excuses!!! :D

Summary:

1- your name & Email
2- Civ you want to play
3- Version of the mod you want to play (City, World Or random map)
4- finally email me this information teturkhan@hotmail.com

I will post the list of players on the first page of this thread

sgrig- I still only have 2 cities (and actually a good portion of AI civs also have only 2 cities), but I've already got the Pyramids in Moscow and I'm at war with Germany! Whoa!, I to started one, the time scale seems pretty exact. And actually somehow, unexpectedly, balanced!!!

I played as Poland, and once I had seen that Russia was wide open, and I had 3 warriors, I charged straight for them, I decided to take a downward rout, taking Kiev, Kharkiv (sp?), and Rostov, by the time I was at the borders of Rostov, they had a spearmen there, and two warriors headed for Minsk.

I did a daring maneuver with my Queen and killed one, and 2 turns later, had the defense of Minsk to kill the second, but more started appearing, and I had to act fast, but for some reason, Russia's warrior started running back upwards (and out of site) I figured someone else was at war with them, and decided to leave my cities once more and send my Warrior down to Rostov, Where I had left my other warriors (the ones that took Kiev and Kharkiv), as I didn’t think 3 warriors would be a match for the spearmen of Kostov, by the time backup arrived, I started seeing one or two, Russian warriors coming back towards Minsk, and, long story short, I took Rostov and offered peace, they declined, so I attacked a city called Ryazan, which I took then lost, and then they came to me and offered peace. I accepted.
For some reason they had a distraction from the north, which seems to have saved me, because a couple of turns later, I saw many warriors circling my borders. And I knew I would either be dead soon, or dead later so I was surprised when the Celts attacked the Russians! So I attacked the Russians also, but Was defeated pretty quick, and in a bad move sent out all my warriors to defend, Minsk, which led to my ruin. And soon my Queen was running through the middle east, then Africa, where I committed suicide (I went to Africa So I could see a Dino:D)

Kanaric- I would be interested in playing the game as well.Hmm, I see the start of something big here!??!?! When will you start the new thread?

Do you have to have PTW to get at the files? I'd love to give the city map a whirl, with the new units and everything. I can set it up the old fashioned way if I had access to the files.

Not that I'm trying to be a freeloader, I just was hesitant to toss away 30 bucks for PTW after everyone said multiplayer was worthless and unplayable, so I've put it off. I'll probably have to buy it, I guess, but this mod looks like it will make it worthwhile.

I am noticing the posts are racking up in this thread. Many of them are one or two lines, others are messages to me rather than about the mod. Please limit your posts and put more thought into them before posting. The thread will be much more effective this way, and useful for people wanting to know issues regarding the mod. If you have any questions, you can always email me or PM me.

Thanks, and in addition you can now partake in multiplayer games on this mod (just click the link below "Power Politics")

accidently double posted

I have a suggestion for the greeks. Instead of giving them knights give them cataphracts (sp?) for example since in medieval times they didn't have knights in the same way eastern europe had them.

If you ever have ever played medieval total war there are a lot of good units on there that you could use an ideas for more new ones in your mod if you wish to add more. You may be able to convert the unit graphics on there but i dont know since i have never made a custom unit.


BTW when do you intend on playing the game and what settings would you use? I probably would have enough free time to play on the cities and world map version.

This mod really looks fantastic and with all the new units and other mods, I really do not want to play another mod. However, I cannot play this game as anything other than the Americans but they are no where to be found in this mod.

I know that Americans in this mod would not be realistic since they were not around in 5000 BC but is there any way I can get them in the game? I have tried playing a custom civ, but then i get placed in europe or I have to be an indian tribe which i do not want to be. Call me a homer, but the good old USA is all i want to be, plus the Americans get the F-15 ;)

Any love coming for an american included version?

Thanks and great work.

I think the Babylons should also come back. Teturkhan, you've made an excellent work, but why did you kicked out the Babylons? :rolleyes:

Maybe you did this, so Israel, Persian and the Arab could have more room to expand. But does it looks different in Europe? no, its also tight. :D

Put them back, so the players can choose at the beginning if they want the Babylons or the Arabs instead.

I will now check your new Version. Another Question: Do you make also changes to the terrain or just the rules?

Good Work
Houman

I really wanted to include the Americans, however as you pointed out, its difficult to place them around 5000BC.

I do have a spin off of this mod in the works which is called American Destiny. It starts around 1500AD and will highlight the American Rise to Power, very very cool. The Americans start off small but they explode on to the scene eventually to become the super power they are today :D

As for the current available mods I suggest you play England or France. You know come to think of it, I shoud make the Just Mod version include Americans. After all its a random map so it should work out - let me review it and see what I can come up with.

reply to Houman - yes I did some terrain changes... I was able to implement the suggestion LoneWolf made earlier.

help,

I have tried to install the new version of the Mod 1.66 Full Version.

After running the setup.exe a Dos Box came up and disapeared again.
So I moved the file to my Civ Directory and tried again, but nothing happend, so I tried again, and could see the Harddrive was working hard. :)

I checked the processes and found out two processes of 1.66-setup.exe both were running.

How should I install this exe ?

Thanks
Houman

P.S. Besides I have WInXP

click it and give it a minute - it should be installed (watch the harddrive, once it stops working you will know, safe bet is to give it a couple of minutes)

The update version has a window showing you the install as it takes place, however the full install does not.

I have added your mod to the downloads collection. :)

Update: http://www.civfanatics.net/files/civ3/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=535

Full: http://www.civfanatics.net/files/civ3/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=536

Houman, same thing happened to me. I think install works in the background even after the DOS window disppeared. So if you wait a few minutes the install should be completed. :) If you open the readme it should say v1.66.

I will not be surprised if what I will say now was repeated in this thread dozens of times but I apologize for not reading the replies since there are more than 200 of them.

I'm amazed by TETurkhan's modpack :eek:
You have put a lot of effort in this and providing us with such a modpack is more than just a favor. In my opinion, your modpack is better than the expansion pack PLAY THE WORLD itself!! It looks like you made more changes and improvements in the game than the whole Firaxis team that worked on the expansion. I'd better buy your modpack officially than PLAY THE WORLD... you could have made a lot of money.

Again, I thank you for allowing me to download this modpack, I can't be grateful enough. I haven't managed to play it much but I checked out some of the concepts. You've added quite accurate CIVILIOPEDIA TRIBE'S HISTORY and added a lot of customized units.

One disadvantage (that is not your fault and can't really be fixed) is the speed of the game when having 30 AI players. I'm playing Regicide and it takes like 7-10 seconds per turn.

10/10 :goodjob:

Truly impressive work, TETurkhan!! Thanks for adding the Pyrenees!;)

Just downloaded the update and it looks like the egyptians are missing a capitol. I'm not real experienced with the editor, but all the civs have a circle around their capitol city except the egyptians. The game loads up, then it gives a message saying the egyptions have been eliminated and then crashes when playing regicide mode.

That is really strange, I had double & Triple checked start locations, so how that was missing is beyond me?

Nevertheless I made the changes and 1.67 BIX update has them included. Thanks for the heads up!:goodjob:

I am impressed, your first post in this forum and you picked it out! :eek:

Just one problem with the map (maybe this has been pointed out)

You can get from europe to the new world with only mapmaking. (via greenland)

Historically, Nav. or at least astronomy should be req'd

But I think the vikings did exactly this, taking the Greenland route with trirremes and reaching North America.

A sidenote: Dinosaurs in South America? I am from Brazil and feel ofended.;)

There is a fine line between guiding game play in the scenario and over limiting it where then the Civs become less dynamic. I put mapmaking in light of early Viking voyages. I did however plague the Atlantic Ocean with Pirates so it isn't as simple (shouldn't be), settlers costs fortune in the mod, I know myself I *** bricks when risking a galley with a few settlers across pirate invested oceans. Big gamble but if it pays off fantastic.... Or is it? remember Iroq & the multitude of Indepdent Native tribes inhabit the New World. Until you get a stronghold in the New World you can at anytime be over run by hordes of natives. :)

I will review it though, a possible solution could be to make Greenland smaller since it is over sized. The thing is I don't want to elminate any chance of Vikings making the voyage. Let me think this one over a bit and I will let you guys know if I change anything.

Dinosaurs in South America - all that jungle I couldn't resist. You guys got the worst of it too, the mighty T-Rex. You know that you don't have to kill it. You could choose to leave them alone. Kind of like a wild life park with Dinosaurs :)

Lastly, I made some recent fixes in a very short time and want to apologize for it. I had changed terrain attributes to not allow cities on hills (was done to speed game up). However some Civs had start points on hills and the settler got stuck, just noticed this and fixed it right away (version 1.68 has this fix included).

I don't like to keep putting up new updates but this is the first week people are getting a chance to try the mod and this sort of thing is to be expect especially considering the depth and detail of the mod.

I love you Teturkhan!

Looking forward to buying PTW after finals to try your mod. I wonder how much you increased PTW sales? You should be proud.

To those who have PTW... I read that Teturkhanou added some additional units or reduced the costs for some civs? Anyone with some time on their hands feel like making a post that lists the different units for the different civs along with stats and costs? Might be a fun morsel for us that do not have PTW yet, and a good reference for those who do!

I've tried using WinRAR but it just doesn't work. Is there any way you could make this a WinZip file?

Is there a readme to tell us what the changes to unit stats etc are?

Other than that, best map and mod I've seen, ever! :goodjob: :goodjob:

I've tried using WinRAR but it just doesn't work. Is there any way you could make this a WinZip file? - Troquelet

What operating system are you using? (respond to me by email pls) teturkhan@hotmail.com

Furthermore this goes out to everyone. If you have technical problems please email me instead of posting here. I would like to keep the thread informative as possible dealing strictly with the game itself rather than download problems etc.

thanks

Originally posted by CivFan2k1

One disadvantage (that is not your fault and can't really be fixed) is the speed of the game when having 30 AI players. I'm playing Regicide and it takes like 7-10 seconds per turn.

10/10 :goodjob:

You think 7-10 seconds per turn is slow? :lol:

I'm currently still in BC and it takes at least 1min a turn!