Ummm hey.

Three games in a row now, Mazatl, flavorstart on. Tectonics.... actual earth, pangea, panagea.

All Plains/Forest starts.

Something wrong here? O.o

Also, ErebusWrap needs an FF version; it doesn't have proper flavor start info for any of the FF civs.

Forest is actually their second choice after jungle. If the map script didn't generate any starting positions in the jungle, it is very likely they are going to start somewhere in a forest. I could add a small dislike for plains though or increase their preference for grass a notch.

and they should definitely get a preference for mount kashekk imho ;)

Forest is actually their second choice after jungle. If the map script didn't generate any starting positions in the jungle, it is very likely they are going to start somewhere in a forest. I could add a small dislike for plains though or increase their preference for grass a notch.

Forest, River and Grass is the ideal second choice - as that should convert relatively quickly to Deep Jungle.

@RogueThunder: I tried 10 games with the Mazatl on a standard sized Tectonics and on a ErebusWrap map and only once I did end up in a location without any jungle at all. And the one time without jungle it was Forest and Grass. So it seems you were really unlucky, when you've got three times plains in a row. Are you really sure, you were using the Flavour Start option? It's not active, if you play a non-custom custom for example.

Gekko;7293952']and they should definitely get a preference for mount kashekk imho ;)

Yeah, I remember you were mentioning something like that in the past. Don't worry, I will add it soon.

Forest, River and Grass is the ideal second choice - as that should convert relatively quickly to Deep Jungle.

Good to know. I will try to add something like a River preference. Shouldn't be too difficult.

Good to know. I will try to add something like a River preference. Shouldn't be too difficult.

Good to hear - being next to a river makes the wetland spread progress roughly five times faster than it otherwise would (which in turn increases the rate at which the forest converts to jungle).

ah, finally I'm starting to understand how the mechanics for forests becoming deep jungles work. rivers mean increased chance for grasslands to become wetlands, which in turn means increased chance for forests to become deep jungles. so if I cast spring with a lizard worker on a forest+grassland tile, the tile becomes wetlands+forest, which greatly raises its chance to convert into wetlands+deep jungle. correct? :D

I guess it was just really bad luck on our side or something; we really did see a plains/hills/forest start noted as "first choice" for the Mazatl, which should NEVER happen on Erebus as it basically always has large jungle areas.

Although come to think of it that start might have been the one time we tried Techtonics because we couldn't get Erebus to work right; RogueThunder, can you remind me if I'm right on that one?

Good to hear - being next to a river makes the wetland spread progress roughly five times faster than it otherwise would (which in turn increases the rate at which the forest converts to jungle).

Is it only rivers doing this or is it the Fresh Water property?

Is it only rivers doing this or is it the Fresh Water property?

It uses pPlot.isRiverside(), so just rivers methinks.

I guess it was just really bad luck on our side or something; we really did see a plains/hills/forest start noted as "first choice" for the Mazatl, which should NEVER happen on Erebus as it basically always has large jungle areas.

Although come to think of it that start might have been the one time we tried Techtonics because we couldn't get Erebus to work right; RogueThunder, can you remind me if I'm right on that one?

Yeah. We tried tectonics because it seemed like Flavorstart 2.0 was conflicting with the built in older Flavorstart that is intergrated into Erebus. I actualy got first choice on BOTH tectonics and creation with massive plains/forest...

Ok, I'll use isRiverside() then too. Thanks.

Something I recognized while coding: Maybe it would be a good idea to change the spreading code to isRiver(). The function isRiver() counts some more plots than isRiverSide(). The plot at an outer river bend for example or all the four plots adjacent to a river mouth. Makes sense to me.

EDIT: My first test after some Mazatl tweaking gave me the start shown in the screen shot below. It's an "ok" start for them, I suppose. ;)

What's that red stuff in the jungle next to the river, lava?

cultural borders. ;) that looks like a nice start for the lizzies Jean :D

No lava, sorry. Surely looks that way, hehe, but it's only the Burning Sands terrain without flames. Sometimes I use it as a marker for paths and stuff while modding. Here I used it to visualize which plots do count as riverside plots and which plots do not. Nothingg special about it.

Ah, I see. A clever device indeed. Does look kinda groovy though, especially with that volcano nearby.

I've just sent the new version of FlavourMod containing some small changes, including the Lizard tweaks, to Vehem and xienwolf. The changes are:

- Add: Riverside Preference "RIVERSIDE"
- Change: Cualli and Mazatl gain preference for riverside
- Change: Mazatl gain preference for Mount Kalshekk
- Change: Elohim lose preference for Maelstrom (not sacred enough)
- Change: Elohim gain preference for Seven Pines and Bradeline's Well
- Change: InfoType spell checking active by default
- Change: Munkres linear optimization algorithm update to 1.0.5.2

That should fix things right up; the Mazatl can (eventually) make any start work as long as it's riverside.

nice changes, but why do the Elohim get a flavor for bradeline's well? isn't it a entropy-mana "evil" unique feature?

Gekko;7302776']nice changes, but why do the Elohim get a flavor for bradeline's well? isn't it a entropy-mana "evil" unique feature?

It's one of the sites originally listed in Kael's description of the Elohim - they guard it to prevent others from abusing it - and in the current FF they can also sanctify it (the Elohim description is actually where I first read about it). From the teaser of 034 that Kael posted however it looks like he's implemented Bradeline's Well in the main mod - so our version might well be deferring to the main mod content in the near future.

Might be, but I don't think the Elohim make any differences when it comes to guarding the historically important places on Erebus. Maybe MagisterCultum or someone else knowing as much as him about erebusian history does know more about it, but that was always my interpretation of their background.

EDIT: Oops, missed Vehem's last post when I was typing this.

I see, now it makes sense - thanx for the explanation :D

It's one of the sites originally listed in Kael's description of the Elohim - they guard it to prevent others from abusing it - and in the current FF they can also sanctify it (the Elohim description is actually where I first read about it). From the teaser of 034 that Kael posted however it looks like he's implemented Bradeline's Well in the main mod - so our version might well be deferring to the main mod content in the near future.

This ties into my only real issue with Fall From Heaven - the lack of proper documentation. If I encounter an new feature on the map, the next logical step is to check the civilopeida .. is there any decent info there? Perhaps 10% chance, and if not you have to go out and search on the forums.

If someone make some new cool feature that can be used in various ways, clearly the best way to have people using it is to write it down in the pedia what it is and how to use it.