Well, I've been playing Colonization for a few days, and the modding bug has started to bite. I never played the original Colonization, so perhaps that puts me in a good position to make sacrilegious changes. There's a number of things that really are core aspects of the game that I thought needed a bit of an overhaul. Not everything in my list is earth-shattering, but I thought I would run some of them by you all and see what you think:

New cash crops: Hemp (used for ship units) and Coffee
Remove all of the cash crops from the map except for Tobacco and add several new improvements: Sugar Plantation, Tobacco Plantation, Cotton Plantation, Hemp Plantation and Coffee Plantation. This will give you some control over wear you grow the cash crops, but there will be limitations on the type of land you can build them on, the latitude of the tile on the map, and you will get more or less depending on certain terrains/features. Sugar Plantations will produce more in Marshes, for example.
Add new small, cheap ships that can transport goods between island cities but can't explore and can't travel to Europe.
Scrap crosses as the sole factor in the accumulation of points towards immigrants (see below)
Add city happiness that will, among other things, be calculated into a new immigration point system. Happiness will come from buildings, as expected, but will also provide a practical use for domestic consumption of luxury goods that would otherwise be getting shipped off to Europe. I think sliders that control the rate of consumption in each city would be the best way to handle this.
New Europe-only trade goods like European Fashions and Tea that will increase city happiness and entice immigrants by promising European comforts in the New World.
Add new Africa screen where you can trade finished products (they have no use for raw materials) in exchange for Slave units thus completing the famed Triangle Trade.So I'm looking for constructive criticism... I want to know where any of these things might cause problems so I can either tweak them or scrap them (hopefully not scrap them).

Sounds interesting, I'm looking forward to playing it. :)

If you're implementing slavery and plantations as a mechanic, I had a couple of ideas on what I thought were realistic and relatively simple to implement ways of modelling that aspect of production. If you want, feel free to read them in the last post of this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=282777&page=6).

Of course, you probably have your own ideas of how to implement them, so I'd be interested to hear any of your own ideas for implementing them.

Trading with the natives needs to be addressed.

Of course, you probably have your own ideas of how to implement them, so I'd be interested to hear any of your own ideas for implementing them.

I didn't really, so any and all suggestions on that are welcome :lol:
I'll give this thread a read.

Trading with the natives needs to be addressed.

What exactly do you think needs to be addressed? I'm open to anything.

What exactly do you think needs to be addressed? I'm open to anything.

Don't let them run out cash so early that they can't reasonably trade with you later. I know historically they got swindled, but if they have needs for things later on they should be able to pay fair value for it. Maybe gold or ancient treasure would symbolize land trading for your goods? I didn't play the original either so don't know if this is a normal mechanic or not.

I'm interested in the Africa aspect of it all and completing the Triangle Trade..

How do you plan to go about simulating that? I can imagine that simulating slavery might get a lot of bad feedback. Would you make the slaves more capable of producing cotton, tobacco, sugar and other specialized raw products than free colonists, indentured servants and convict laborers (but maybe not as good as truly specialized planters)? Would you make the slaves 'free' for pickup at the docks or would they have to be purchased? How about specialized slave ships that would have to be built / purchased in Europe, similar to the Galleons?

In any case, I'm interested, but you really need to tread carefully around the issue of slavery, so as to not make it seem trivial.. Good luck!

Don't let them run out cash so early that they can't reasonably trade with you later. I know historically they got swindled, but if they have needs for things later on they should be able to pay fair value for it. Maybe gold or ancient treasure would symbolize land trading for your goods? I didn't play the original either so don't know if this is a normal mechanic or not.

I'm fairly sure that the Indians in Col 1 had an infinite supply of gold for trading. Certainly, they seemed to pay the same at the start for goods as they did at the end, and a common tactic as you got closer to independence was to sever trade with europe and just go to the Indians if they were nearby.

What might be the easiest system to implement for native trading would be to just give them a fixed value of gold each turn (say 2000 gold), and remove any excess gold at the end of the turn, so you could do about 2 trades a turn of medium value goods, or 1 trade of a high value one.

That can be done with a fairly simple python script, instead of overhauling the system in the SDK, right?

Hmm.. Okay, I've read through the suggestions proposed in the slavery thread. I think that the game mechanics will probably produce some of the desired effects for realism. An area with lots of plantations will have very little food production and will thus keep the number of people working in buildings (and thus the city's industrial capacity) rather low. Lots of plantations will also mean lots of cleared forests and thus no opportunity to switch over to chopping wood. So unless you start importing lots of food and other raw materials, you're not going to have big, industrial cities surrounded by plantations. But if you're going to go to that kind of trouble, why hamper the player from doing it?

I hadn't really planned on giving slaves any special abilities but rather to let them act as a quick supply of cheap labor (which is what they basically were in the New World).

As far as native trading: I'm not sure I want the natives loaded with cash, but certainly there could be other benefits they could provide in return for commodities. I'm thinking of adding some new diplomatic options as well although what I'm not sure of yet.

How do you plan to go about simulating that?

If you're asking how I'm going to simulate the Triangle Trade, the plan is rather simple. Personally, I think that producing added-value goods is a bit too easy in the game, and it starts happening too early. Colonies were sources for raw materials. Producing processed goods should really be a slap in the face of the motherland because you're now competing with it. The African markets should demand on finished products because they lack the infrastructure to make use of the raw materials. Europe then becomes the important middle ground. Colonies will ship their raw materials to Europe, then your transport will load up on finished products and sail to the Africa part of the map and trade in those goods in exchange for slaves.

I can imagine that simulating slavery might get a lot of bad feedback.
Oh, I'm aware that some people will be upset about this. As the descendent of slaves, slave owners and abolitionists, I am aware of the sensitivity of the issue. I probably wouldn't bother trying to add such a sensitive aspect of history in the game if it wasn't so huge in scope. The face of several countries in the Americas is defined by this evil institution. America was built on the backs of African slaves, and without slavery, the history of the Americas would be completely different. My response to critics would be that if we are going to excise atrocity from the game, then players should start off on a clean, completely uninhabited piece of land. But I'm fairly certain that descendents of Native Americans would probably call this a white wash by removing them from the game to make our activities seem much more sanitized.

Would you make the slaves more capable of producing cotton, tobacco, sugar and other specialized raw products than free colonists, indentured servants and convict laborers (but maybe not as good as truly specialized planters)?
I'm really not sure what abilities/problems slave units should have. I mean, the problem here is: are units working a land the laborers or the managers? Slaves would obviously never be the managers, but Planters would obviously never be the laborers... yet both could potentially be put to work on the same tile doing the same thing. Much of the plantation work is labor-intensive and dangerous requiring a large, cheap labor force to effectively produce the crops. But if you have slaves being better than specialists, it breaks the game aspect of increasingly improved units.

Would you make the slaves 'free' for pickup at the docks or would they have to be purchased?
No. They would have to be purchased in all instances. I'm debating whether to have your goods sellable in the African port for gold, and then the gold can be put towards buying the slaves, or if the goods should be used in a direct trade for slaves.

How about specialized slave ships that would have to be built / purchased in Europe, similar to the Galleons?
That might be something to think about in the future, but it's not a top priority at this time.

Pardon me for double posting this, but I think it's relevant to your thread.

I had suggested in another thread a major improvement (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7287644&postcount=19) (I'm not holding my breath about this one ever seeing the light of day). On the other hand, under the current system, it's difficult setting up the network of automated wagon trains to not only spread out certain resources where they are needed within the colonies, but also preventing that they bunch up in one colony, causing waste.

It would be an improvement if the automated wagon trains would quit bringing a certain type of resource to a colony that already has its stores full. It's irritating (not mention tedious) constantly watching and switching import/export settings to avoid losing tools and weapons!


I totally agree with adding trade connections with Africa, as well as certain extra resources, such as Coffee in particular, and Europe-only goods. Some automation to trade with natives would be nice.

The game's also missing trade agreements negotiated via diplomacy, special import fees, and trading with other monarchs as well (angering one's own monarch). Getting a foreign king to send some kind of military help would be more historical, especially a rival monarchy. Corporations are also singularly missing (Hudson Bay co, Compagnie des Indes, etc...)

For combat, if ships can bombard cities, land artillery (which historically was far more accurate than shipboard cannons) should obviously be able to return fire!

I'd stay away from anything requiring more complex resource/colonist allocation mechanics, unless better automation can be made available. I think there more than enough micromanagement required at this level already.

Finally, scenarios other than the WoI schtick would allow for a different sort of game.

On the topic of slavery -- this is thorny issue. Maybe the simplest way to represent it (if ever desirable) would be to give a small abstract productivity bonus to the colony or its land where slavery is in use. The "slave" unit is absorbed by the colony and does not show as a separate colonist, possibly until released (fights on the side of colonists if given freedom by the new constitution, runs away and forms a hostile independent colony*, or takes up arms and rebels against the colony).

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EDIT

(*) This actually opens a door to an interesting option. The "hostile colony" would be at war with the former owner. The only two ways to put an end to it would be to send troops and destroy the hostile colony, OR negotiate ----> something like this: "We'll make peace with you and recognize your freedom as a separate colony, but you can only buy goods from and sell goods to us. We'll even guarantee your protection against natives and foreign powers -- take it or leave it!" Although this smacks of neo-colonialism, it brings back "vassal" mechanics to Civ4Col. ;)

Regarding trade routes: I would like to do something with this. I think Dale made a great case for why the trade routes are the way they are, and I can't see any reason to change their mechanics. What does need to be changed probably is how that information is displayed. A trade route screen would be a good idea where you could set the imports/exports of multiple cities at a glance. I'm not sure how to minimize the list of cities in the transport's list of trade route options... I don't think there'd be a way to add a filter to a popup. But it would be nice if you could select two cities and get all of the possible resources to trade between them.

I definitely agree that the wagon should stop trading if the destination city has maxed out its space. That could be something I can look into.

The game's also missing trade agreements negotiated via diplomacy, special import fees, and trading with other monarchs as well (angering one's own monarch). Getting a foreign king to send some kind of military help would be more historical, especially a rival monarchy. Corporations are also singularly missing (Hudson Bay co, Compagnie des Indes, etc...)

Yeah, Europe in general seems to need some fleshing out. Any of these points probably need to be in there. European wars should also be factored in as far as I'm concerned. There's also a perfectly good events system that's gone largely unused. There's lots of potential for interesting random events. I'm not sure about the best way to represent corporations since in many instances they were the direct administraters of these colonies (essentially they'd have YOUR job)... so I don't know about the companies.

For combat, if ships can bombard cities, land artillery (which historically was far more accurate than shipboard cannons) should obviously be able to return fire!

Yeah, DCM or at least Ranged Bombardment should be added.

I'd stay away from anything requiring more complex resource/colonist allocation mechanics, unless better automation can be made available. I think there more than enough micromanagement required at this level already.

Well, this is part of the reason I want to have plantations instead of being entirely at the mercy of the distribution of the cash crops on the map. I found that this resource distribution, more than anything else, was leading to the crushing micromanagement I was experiencing. Having three different cities shipping in their pitiful quantities of a raw material to make a lot of a processed commodity was annoying. In addition, with this, the map essentially starts out with four resources: Lumber, Food, Fur and Ore. Then you can sort of step back and see where you want the city to go from there.

Finally, scenarios other than the WoI schtick would allow for a different sort of game.

Yeah, one of the things I was going to add to the list (but really haven't developed enough to post) is the idea for multiple routes to independence. I mean, I come from Brazil which had no such War of Independence. Brazil bought its independence from Portugal by assuming all of the debt Portugal had accumulated from the Napoleonic Wars. So a kind of commercial victory where you buy your independence might be interesting. A political victory where you move to limited autonomy and then eventual independence might be interesting for some people too. But there has to be a fundamental change too since there will have to be a risk that the social order will collapse and that you'll find yourself at war with the home country if you don't thread the needle.

As far as native trading: I'm not sure I want the natives loaded with cash, but certainly there could be other benefits they could provide in return for commodities. I'm thinking of adding some new diplomatic options as well although what I'm not sure of yet.

What about the option when you settle too close and they want gold they instead ask for x number of produced goods? So you do trade for land in this way.

Couldn't the slave "units" simply be a type of colonist you cannot use in any buildings but which will only consume 50% of the food a normal colonist would consume (maybe even less)?
In the original Colonization, the indian immigrants could not be used for many tasks, which is kinda similar and could also be reintroduced.
Also,I think what you have in mind for the african slave trade was in place for trading with the indians: you didn't trade goods for money, but goods for different goods instead. Which would be another good thing to reintroduce.
Indian colonies could just produce a certain amount of goods each turn, and those would be available for trade. Makes sense, too.
The original game also had a mechanic for preventing mega-cities: your towns would get less and less efficient after growing past a certain size, a situation you could only remedy by producing sufficient bells. To reintroduce this, changing the REF growth would be required, though.

Something that was not in the original game but would be cool: have some mechanic to keep scouts useful. For example, indian "scouts" could have a chance of "settling down", producing additional goodie huts.
Also, something like "high level huts" could be introduced. Give seasoned scouts a "Explorer" ability with several levels, and some huts could require "Explorer IV" or something. To make achieving higher skill levels possible, maybe uncovering unknown (black) terrain could provide a small amount of XP.
And/or you could train it in the university.
In the original game, there were "mega huts", like the Seven Cities of Cimbula (or something similar, you got a HUGE treasure from them) or the Fountain of Youth (triggering like a dozen free immigrants). These could also be put back in and only obtainable by experienced seasoned scouts in the mid-game or even later (when they are completely useless in the current system).

I hope you don't mind I'm throwing around some random points here...
_____
rezaf

What about the option when you settle too close and they want gold they instead ask for x number of produced goods? So you do trade for land in this way.

That certainly makes sense. This may be hard-coded though... the trade screen is a bit tricky and they really haven't exposed as much as I would've liked. Best I can say to that is maybe.

Here's what we can do for sure though: We could add a new trade option where the Natives cede X tiles of their territory. 3 sounds like a good number to me... could vary based on world size. Anyway, you trade with the Natives for the rights to 3 tiles of their land...

So let's say you now want to build a city on a piece of land and 4 of the tiles are controlled by that tribe. When calculating how much gold to demand from you, it will subtract the 3 tiles you bought, so they'll basically only be demanding the value of that fourth tile. They will also be less angry than they would be if you refuse to pay since you've only stolen 1 tile instead of 4.

It would be nice if you could whip out the selection tool and select the tiles you want so it will be a pre-defined area of land, but this just isn't possible. Still, I think the above plan is better than nothing.

Religion is also missing. I'm surprised nothing transpires into the game regarding the Reformation and the Wars of Religions. We have two Civs that are nominally Catholic (three with Dale's Portuguese), and two others that are likely Protestants. The two religious groups really hated each other, and this should have some impact as regards diplomacy but also Missionary rivalries. Scenario with Religious victory conditions?

With natives (animism?) and possibly slaves (voodoo?), this complicates things a bit.

Religion is also missing. I'm surprised nothing transpires into the game regarding the Reformation and the Wars of Religions. We have two Civs that are nominally Catholic (three with Dale's Portuguese), and two others that are likely Protestants. The two religious groups really hated each other, and this should have some impact as regards diplomacy but also Missionary rivalries. Scenario with Religious victory conditions?

Certainly I think there's room for representing the rift between Catholic and Protestant countries. Of course, the game starts pre-Reformation... so I don't know if we'd want to have the sides locked in from the start... this is particularly true for a country like England that vacillated between Catholicism and Protestantism.

Honestly, I can't really understand why building sectarian religious structures that further the glory and power of particular religious institutions increase religious tolerance. So things like Churches and Cathedrals should really bolster the religious rather than increase religious tolerance.

Regarding Native trade, why not make some of your happy goods available ONLY via natives so that the trade is actually bi-directional. Also, maybe have them ship stuff TO you as opposed to requiring that the player initiate the trade.

How about someones fixs the dam western map god it looks horrible no great lakes few rivers the old col north american map looked better then this.

Regarding Native trade, why not make some of your happy goods available ONLY via natives so that the trade is actually bi-directional. Also, maybe have them ship stuff TO you as opposed to requiring that the player initiate the trade.

That's an interesting possibility. Certainly you should get natives coming into your cities to initiate trade deals. As far as native-specific goods, what do you have in mind?

How about someones fixs the dam western map god it looks horrible no great lakes few rivers the old col north american map looked better then this.

That's a map-scripting issue. Not my area of expertise at all.

I had an idea: What do you think about adding European banks that you can take loans out from? If you need a quick injection of cash, open up the Europe screen and there'll be a button that you can push to get a loan. Each turn, they'll charge you interest, and the more loans you take out, the higher that interest gets...

We could even add new trait attributes to reduce the interest rates or raise the cap where the banks will cut you off if you take out too much money.

I figure the best means of paying it off will be that if you take out a loan, each time you sell goods back in Europe, the revenue produced from the transaction will go toward paying back the loan?

Some more ideas and possibilities:


Closed ports - if you tick off the monarch, he may close one of your ports preventing goods from coming in and out. I'm not sure how this should work. Should it be possible to get around the closure at the risk of your ship being caught and impounded? Should it block ships from coming or going? Or should it just block goods from being moved to or from transports?
Imperial fleet presence - your home country's fleet floats about in your general area taking out pirates, engaging in wars when they're declared (aside from WoI)
Smuggling - with your homeland's fleet in the area, they will also be dealing with smuggling that you'll probably be doing. Goods bought from other players will be marked and ships carrying them can be seized by the fleet for smuggling
Colonial Charter - extends civics choices back to the start of the game rather than just a post-DoI thing. The crown will also insist you make certain changes... refusal will, of course, have consequences.
Quilombos - if we have slaves, then it makes sense to have escaped slave settlements spring up on the periphery of your colonies. Native villages could also be magnets for escaping slave units
Royal tax increases - Instead of the tax applying to all goods, it could be good-specific. This nerfs the effect of the tax obviously, but it could also provide some variation on what products will be targeted for taxation, how frequently, and how badly

Sounds like a good plan, but you may have to change terrain as well. It's not obvious in this one but in the old one there were four or five types of terrain. Each one could grow one crop much better than the others, and if they were forests they would supply more of less lumber.

If you want to check it out hit up the actual america scenario map and look for yields and note the colors. I'm sure if you can add now crops and mods you can add in new terrain as well.

I like the smuggling idea but I think it should be an option. Choose if you want to smuggle before you set sail for Europe. There's a chance you will be caught and your ship and goods taken away, but if you succeed you can sell the goods at full price without taxes and even boycotted stuff.

Some more ideas and possibilities:


Closed ports - if you tick off the monarch, he may close one of your ports preventing goods from coming in and out. I'm not sure how this should work. Should it be possible to get around the closure at the risk of your ship being caught and impounded? Should it block ships from coming or going? Or should it just block goods from being moved to or from transports?
Imperial fleet presence - your home country's fleet floats about in your general area taking out pirates, engaging in wars when they're declared (aside from WoI)
Smuggling - with your homeland's fleet in the area, they will also be dealing with smuggling that you'll probably be doing. Goods bought from other players will be marked and ships carrying them can be seized by the fleet for smuggling
Colonial Charter - extends civics choices back to the start of the game rather than just a post-DoI thing. The crown will also insist you make certain changes... refusal will, of course, have consequences.
Quilombos - if we have slaves, then it makes sense to have escaped slave settlements spring up on the periphery of your colonies. Native villages could also be magnets for escaping slave units
Royal tax increases - Instead of the tax applying to all goods, it could be good-specific. This nerfs the effect of the tax obviously, but it could also provide some variation on what products will be targeted for taxation, how frequently, and how badly


Closed Ports: not sure what this all about. Do you have historical examples?

Imperial Fleet: wouldn't it make more sense if the monarch commanded his colonial governor (the player) to hunt down pirates? It would be more like a quest-type event with a benefit for the player if the quest succeeds (like an extra MoW to guard the colonial waters).

Smuggling: that would be awesome. As Feannag suggested, a chance getting smugglers caught would work well. At last a way to stick it to the old man! ;)

Colonial Charter: makes sense. I suggested earlier in this thread adding back civics. This approach would work well in this respect.

Quilombos: I had suggested earlier in this thread a similar outcome for slaves. I went a little further with the ability to do diplomacy with them which might lead to bringing back "vassalization" mechanics.

Royal Taxes: sure. A bit more financial/fiscal strategy couldn't hurt.

Slave revolts ought to play a role (not just escaped slaves) -- look at what happened in RW Haiti.

Sounds like a good plan, but you may have to change terrain as well. It's not obvious in this one but in the old one there were four or five types of terrain. Each one could grow one crop much better than the others, and if they were forests they would supply more of less lumber.
Well, I'm stripping the map of all of the current cash crops... at the very least all of the ones that are not indigenous to the Americas. Cash crops will now be grown from plantation improvements. But I do plan to have certain plantations grow more of a crop on certain terrains. Sugar will do better in Marshes for example.

I like the smuggling idea but I think it should be an option. Choose if you want to smuggle before you set sail for Europe. There's a chance you will be caught and your ship and goods taken away, but if you succeed you can sell the goods at full price without taxes and even boycotted stuff.
I hadn't really been thinking of it in terms of moving your goods to your European markets. I had been thinking of it in cases where you bought goods from another country and are trying to move the goods to one of your cities or to Europe. This is a big oversimplification of the the system, but I'm not sure what the alternative might be.

I suppose every time you buy something in another colony's cities, you might get a prompt when you bring those goods into port whether you want to pay the import tax or try to smuggle them past royal tax collectors... that might get very annoying though. And you'll only be getting that prompt as you enter the city, so it'll be a complete crap shoot whether you succeed or not whereas simply blocking all foreign goods would make it dependent on whether you have a run-in with a patrolling warship.

Closed Ports: not sure what this all about. Do you have historical examples?

Remember that little party with the tea? The British government responded by closing the Port of Boston until the destroyed tea was repaid.

Imperial Fleet: wouldn't it make more sense if the monarch commanded his colonial governor (the player) to hunt down pirates? It would be more like a quest-type event with a benefit for the player if the quest succeeds (like an extra MoW to guard the colonial waters).

Well, I am thinking of quest type events where the crown will ask the colonial governor to contribute to a war effort, but navy ships would be under the control of the crown rather than the colonial governor in most cases... also, it adds a little more interactions that some people have complained is missing from the game.

Slave revolts ought to play a role (not just escaped slaves) -- look at what happened in RW Haiti.
I'm considering that, but I'm not really sure how that'd end up working...that's like a next generation consideration.

One more thing to add -- making sure that colonists that just entered a town, but still have a movement point left, can be incorporated to that town right away, rather than having to wait for the next turn. It's a small thing, but it's irritating as all heck!

Re. Slave revolts


I'm considering that, but I'm not really sure how that'd end up working...that's like a next generation consideration.

I thought my earlier description was pretty clear about how it might work out. (??)

Re: Slavery - Why not make Slaves an expendable worker type unit that is used up upon improvement. For example, buy a slave from Africa, bring them to the Americas, set them outside the city and select "build tobacco plantation." Slave disappears, tobacco plantation appears. Then use the colonist units to work/manage the plot, at whatever the advantage the plantation gives.

This I think would be a good compromise, in that you need the slaves for the plantation, and the overseer (specialist) managing the production.

Other: What about some new buildings that provide gold based on population and finished goods, instead of (or in addition to) a Customs House. For example, if you have 15 population and some Rum on hand, you could build a tavern, which converts 15 Rum to Cash at full price per turn. Same could apply to other "finished" goods as well, such as a Jewelery for Silver, a Smoke Shop for Cigars, a Clothes store for Cloth, and a Fashion Store (lame I know) for Coats.

i'm loving the mod ideas so far and am eagerly anticipating the results. Dom Pedro II do not disappoint!

daveyjwin's home market for goods sounds great. At the moment their is effectively no use for processed goods within your own city.Why not make like Anno and make certain goods a requirement before certain settlers will appear or buildings become available. Eg. no elder statesmen before cigars, no soldiers without rum or the like. Consumption of processed goods for happiness would be cool, with luxury goods from europe as an extra.

I'm lovin' the idea about slaves and the trade triangle, screw political correctness, col is effectively a war game as is. Perhaps, make slaves a unit that do not consume food but whose efficiency slowly declines over time. Should a player disband his slaves these would go on to establish revolt colonies. Slave ships could be the AI African slave traders fleet which when the slaves are bought would not require the player himself to transport the slaves themselves.

One small idea, perhaps make it so that when you sail to Europe one could choose at which country to dock with, thus allowing trade with multiple leaders per journey, angering one's king by trading with a rival monarch who offers a greater reward in return. Perhaps with time the religion of the various nations could play a role with the cross prodution within each dock.

One minor design bug that irritates me greatly in Col. is the building option, the screen has only the thumbnail image and requires moving your mouse over the image for the building name. At the moment i'm constantly searching for the next building within the options since the thumbnails aren't clear enough. A drop down menu with the names and the image would be much easier and quicker to navigate.

Otherwise, greatly looking forward to your mod, sounds like there are plenty good ideas already.

An improvement of the game's performance, if possible, would be nice too. Civ4Col seems much slower than my BtS game. In the 1700's, there were substantial drops in performance -- for example, it takes a long time (6 seconds or more) to open city screens and even longer to draft colonists back to their garrisons. This thing's a hog!

There is no tech tree in this game (it doesn't necessarily need one), however, there ought to be events that allow new ideas and new knowledge to come about, which would affect perhaps finances, warfare, the gathering of resources and bells, and the production of finished goods. There's a big difference between the early 16th and the late 18th century in all of these regards. Granted, the game isn't about tech-mongering, but something's missing here. I'm not sure that, memory-wise and as far as the sheer amount of data to process goes, Civ4Col could withstand the additional layers of coding, but right now, it sure seems that Civ4Col has been stripped of most Civ4 features for the sake of this god-awful resource/manpower allocation system (all gone are techs, events, civics, spies, corporations, etc).

This thing also needs a major SPAM_FILTER! There needs to be an in-game option to remove all the useless messages about every native chief handing you a handful of tobacco leaves, a wad of cotton, or bit of ore that requires at least one click. One click should be enough when leaving a colonist to learn a specialty at a native camp, or when accepting a new tax raise. Likewise all the little messages about excess resources being wasted or sold off. After a while, I don't even bother reading those. Damn, that spam is annoying!

An improvement of the game's performance, if possible, would be nice too. Civ4Col seems much slower than my BtS game. In the 1700's, there were substantial drops in performance -- for example, it takes a long time (6 seconds or more) to open city screens and even longer to draft colonists back to their garrisons. This thing's a hog!

I personally think that the slow down is due to the fact that rather than use BonusTypes like they did with Civ4, all of the commodities in the game are YieldTypes. Yields are sprinkled throughout the code and are the bedrock of the game. As a result, they are cycled through frequently in lots of different places. Of course, there are a lot more yields in Colonization vs. the 3 in Civ4 (Production, Food and Commerce). This means cycling through yields takes 4 or 5 times as long.

Now, one of the ways they compensate for this by having far fewer players. But that will just reduce the time between turns rather than the time it takes for any particular thing (like opening the city window).

There is no tech tree in this game (it doesn't necessarily need one), however, there ought to be events that allow new ideas and new knowledge to come about, which would affect perhaps finances, warfare, the gathering of resources and bells, and the production of finished goods. There's a big difference between the early 16th and the late 18th century in all of these regards. Granted, the game isn't about tech-mongering, but something's missing here. I'm not sure that, memory-wise and as far as the sheer amount of data to process goes, Civ4Col could withstand the additional layers of coding, but right now, it sure seems that Civ4Col has been stripped of most Civ4 features for the sake of this god-awful resource/manpower allocation system (all gone are techs, events, civics, spies, corporations, etc).

These things were stripped because they were remaking Colonization and not revamping Civ4. But certainly there is a performance question, and not having these things (to some degree) increases performance.

This thing also needs a major SPAM_FILTER! There needs to be an in-game option to remove all the useless messages about every native chief handing you a handful of tobacco leaves, a wad of cotton, or bit of ore that requires at least one click. One click should be enough when leaving a colonist to learn a specialty at a native camp, or when accepting a new tax raise. Likewise all the little messages about excess resources being wasted or sold off. After a while, I don't even bother reading those. Damn, that spam is annoying!
I'm not really sure how that could be changed, but there should probably be some kind of a way to turn off those.

I was thinking about the royal taxes idea, and came up with a similar one:

Preferred Goods - Occasionally, the crown is in great need of a certain resource, and gives you a tax break on sales of that item. This would be especially common for the resources that are usually low value, possibly to increase the feasibility of shipping them to Europe, like Food, Lumber, and Guns.

What I was thinking was that the Royal Taxes and Tax breaks could be tied to the presently mostly pointless lump sum demands by the king. If you refuse a gold demand from the king, he'll respond by raising a tax on a single good significantly. The king could also demand resources, like the ones above, and accepting these demands would net you a tax break on that good from him.

I was thinking about the royal taxes idea, and came up with a similar one:

Preferred Goods - Occasionally, the crown is in great need of a certain resource, and gives you a tax break on sales of that item. This would be especially common for the resources that are usually low value, possibly to increase the feasibility of shipping them to Europe, like Food, Lumber, and Guns.

What I was thinking was that the Royal Taxes and Tax breaks could be tied to the presently mostly pointless lump sum demands by the king. If you refuse a gold demand from the king, he'll respond by raising a tax on a single good significantly. The king could also demand resources, like the ones above, and accepting these demands would net you a tax break on that good from him.

This is an interesting idea and something to consider for the future. I like game components that provide the carrot and the stick to the player.

One thing i found annoying was that after i gained independence that my former king would try to raise taxes or demand gold. If there was anyway to fix that it could add more to the game after victory.

Hi, just a word about performances. I feel that the problem is not the game itself (i.e.: the Yield and whatnot) but a huge memory leak. Try it. When the game start slowing down after a few hundred turns, save... reload... voila! Responsiveness!

At least that was my experience.

Ya i think the new col has some major memorey leaks later in game

Hi, just a word about performances. I feel that the problem is not the game itself (i.e.: the Yield and whatnot) but a huge memory leak. Try it. When the game start slowing down after a few hundred turns, save... reload... voila! Responsiveness!

At least that was my experience.

Ya i think the new col has some major memorey leaks later in game

Interesting. I think myself and other modders will have to look into this possibility. Hopefully we can correct this problem.

I've been thinking of ways to prevent people from using wagons and ships to get around the storage limitations of yields. The basic idea I have is that idle wagons will dump yields back into the city storage. Idle/fortified wagons outside of the city will be subject to "bandit" events that will cause a loss of part of the yields they're containing.

Another possibility is to have a prompt appear every turn when you have a wagon full of goods idling. Would get pretty annoying if you were systematically holding wagons not being moved to a location ;)

I really don't have a problem with the mobile depots, and in fact would like to be able to have colonists obtain guns from them. Bandit events are a good idea though, but I would not restrict that event to only idle wagons but to any wagon.

A better way would be to tie weapons production to REF size, since the King most likely has some idea of what is going on and that weapons are being stock-piled.

The King should have spy units!

Well, to quote somebody from your thread:

Why not? Simply build some wagon trains and/or galleons (or any ships for that matter) and load them full of food. Then, after declaring independence, suddenly unload all of them. BAM, +1 free colonist for every full food wagon unloaded

This sounds like an exploit to me. Seems like it should be stopped or at least strongly discouraged somehow.

For food I wished they would just allow you, in an overview screen, to assign excess food-per-turn to other colonies without requiring physical transport of the food, and disabling food transport all together. Even buying food from Europe seems gamey.

Well, to quote somebody from your thread:



This sounds like an exploit to me. Seems like it should be stopped or at least strongly discouraged somehow.

What if food exports are only allowable with automated wagons or ships? I.e. food cannot be loaded manually on transport vehicles. Should this fix the problem?

Alright, I've added the code necessary to have the plantation system I was discussing earlier. I still have to actually add the plantations in.

Right now though I'm working on adding in the loan system I was discussing earlier. That's going pretty well and hopefully I can have that done by the end of the weekend.

Getting a great formula for it might take a little longer and will require more community feedback I'm sure ;)

But the basic formula is that you will be able to get small loans in the early game at moderate interest rates. As you develop, the banks will offer bigger and bigger loans, and if you keep your debt low, at reasonable interest rates. You can take out several loans in a short period of time, but the interest rate will build up quite rapidly that way. Accumulated debt will also reduce the amount of money the bank will be willing to lend in the future.

My plan is that if you have outstanding debt, goods sold in Europe will go towards paying that debt. You will not get gold from transactions until the debt has been paid. Gold traded through diplomacy, however, will not go directly towards the debt (but you can pay the debt at any point obviously).

Debt will also count negatively toward your final score as well. I figure this is a good way to prevent players from taking out a huge loan at the very end of the game and then declaring independence with no intention of ever paying the money back. If you're not going to be doing much trading with Europe anyway in the end, there's no incentive to pay it back. Negatively affecting the score then seems like a good solution. Huge debt will also make it less likely that other European players will intervene on your behalf.

Nice DPII. :goodjob:

Can't wait to see how you do some of this.

For those that have mentioned the Trade Route system, I'm about half done with a complete overhaul of system. It will have a completly new interface and a slightly different mechanics that will make it work much more like those from other games. I'm going to start a thread for it when I get home tonight and will post some Screen Shots of the new interface.

Good luck with your project, your mods rock. :band:

EDIT: JTradeRoutes Mod Discussion Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7311882)

I like the idea of a happiness slider per city other then one the main screen. It seems colonization is about city management more then empire management, and that fits right in. Also that it could require actual luxuries from what you have stored in the city fits as well. So maybe the higher the slider the higher the drain of those luxuries?

I also like the idea of the debt system, but I wonder if that isn't exploitable? I am on the fence because how you balanced it out with the trade paying back the debt is a really good idea, but you don't have to trade to make all you need, and if you get a large enough loan at once late game... I don't know I am probably seeing something that isn't there as I am not able to make a specific example so just keep an eye out :)

Nice DPII. :goodjob:

Can't wait to see how you do some of this.

For those that have mentioned the Trade Route system, I'm about half done with a complete overhaul of system. It will have a completly new interface and a slightly different mechanics that will make it work much more like those from other games. I'm going to start a thread for it when I get home tonight and will post some Screen Shots of the new interface.

Good luck with your project, your mods rock. :band:

Looking forward to the changes! And thanks for the good words :)

I like the idea of a happiness slider per city other then one the main screen. It seems colonization is about city management more then empire management, and that fits right in. Also that it could require actual luxuries from what you have stored in the city fits as well. So maybe the higher the slider the higher the drain of those luxuries?

Yes, that's the plan. I based the idea off of the internet game Ikariam which has a slider that consumes Wine at a Tavern based on the slider you set. The higher the slider, the more happiness and the more wine consumed. It seems like the best option for a game like this.

I also like the idea of the debt system, but I wonder if that isn't exploitable? I am on the fence because how you balanced it out with the trade paying back the debt is a really good idea, but you don't have to trade to make all you need, and if you get a large enough loan at once late game... I don't know I am probably seeing something that isn't there as I am not able to make a specific example so just keep an eye out :)
I was concerned about that too. My solution was to A) base your final score in part on your debt much in the same way that it's based partially on how high the king's tax is on you. And B) tie debt into foreign relations. Since I plan to add the ability to get foreign countries involved in your revolutionary war, they could be more reluctant to join you if you seem to be up to your neck in debt. Also, since I plan to revamp the immigration system, debt could negatively affect the rate of new immigrants. Of course, we don't want to tie it into too much, but I think we can make it so that it's got sufficient downsides to keep people from abusing it.

I've been thinking of ways to prevent people from using wagons and ships to get around the storage limitations of yields. The basic idea I have is that idle wagons will dump yields back into the city storage.

Bad idea, IMHO

Better idea every wagon(or maybe every loaded wagon)= some maintenance cost.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc63/carioca713/interface1.jpg

I wanted to show a screenshot of some things I've been working on. I haven't had much time to do anything lately, so all I've got at the moment is a simple SDK interface change.

I've added a new infotype called YieldClassTypes. It's editable in the XML, so people can create their own yield classes and/or change the yield class associated with each yield type.

I thought it would be easier to find what you're looking for if yields were grouped.

I've added the same groupings to the trade routes popup, so now you can easily sort through trade routes via the popup. I think this will work well with Jeckel's trade screen for those few times when it's easier to just click the unit's button rather than enter the trade route screen.

Dom Pedro

I think a good way around the food exploit is to create a new resource call pop growth. The resource would be created at one per settled colonist, and totally non exportable. after you get 200 pop growth, a new colonist.
1 settler = 200 turn
5 settler = 40 turns
20 settlers = 10 turns

With all of these ideas manifesting I think that we will need two expansions 1) Colonization Landlords followed by 2) Beyond the Sugar Beet.

Please include Portugal as a colonizing nation.

Portugal not only colonized Brazil but also:

Angola
Mozambique
Guinea
Cape Verde Islands
Sao Tome e Principe Islands
East Timor

Looking forward for your MOD.

Yes, Portugal will be added, but right now I'm concerned with interface and mechanics changes rather than new content.

I had another thought:

How about being able to sell your ships in Europe?

This thread just keeps getting better Dom.

What about adding the possibilities of cities loyal to the king splitting from your colony when the liberty bar is beyond 50% in general but some cities have no rebellion movement at all?
This would force a player to keep a general level of independance and not just in the major cities.

So, the higher your independance level is beyond 50% the higher the chance that a homeland loyal city might sort of switch to the king (like the king conquering one of your cities during WoI, just without any troops).
But if your general culture level is high enough these independant cities might be "convinced" to rejoin the colony without any need to start a war to regain them due to the cultural border. Just like convincing those indian tribes to give up their settlements, but without losing the city, of course.

Please include Portugal as a colonizing nation.

Portugal not only colonized Brazil but also:

Angola
Mozambique
Guinea
Cape Verde Islands
Sao Tome e Principe Islands
East Timor

Looking forward for your MOD.

Add to this the Macau trading post in China. Portuguese had trading posts in India as well, but these were later taken over by the Dutch or the Brits. The Portuguese also had trade arrangements with Japan at the time it was still closed to other Gaijin powers -- a concept that really isn't available in Civ4Col.

Add to this the Macau trading post in China. Portuguese had trading posts in India as well, but these were later taken over by the Dutch or the Brits. The Portuguese also had trade arrangements with Japan at the time it was still closed to other Gaijin powers -- a concept that really isn't available in Civ4Col.

But this game only covers the New World. And in the New World, the Portuguese only had Brazil. However, that said, Brazil is bigger than the combined French possessions in the Americas and vastly larger than the combined Dutch possessions. That justifies them being included as opposed to whatever else they might have held elsewhere in the world.

I'm not entirely surprised that Portugal was left out because Brazil is somewhat the odd man out in the Americas. It is a Portuguese-speaking country surrounded by Spanish-speaking countries, and Americans see far more Hispanics than they do Brazilians. When I was applying to college, my guidance counselor would come to me with countless scholarships for "Latino" students. And invariably, there would be a place on the form that would say "Brazilians need not apply"

But this game only covers the New World. And in the New World, the Portuguese only had Brazil. However, that said, Brazil is bigger than the combined French possessions in the Americas and vastly larger than the combined Dutch possessions. That justifies them being included as opposed to whatever else they might have held elsewhere in the world.

Did I give you the impression I didn't agree with the above?

I'm not entirely surprised that Portugal was left out because Brazil is somewhat the odd man out in the Americas. It is a Portuguese-speaking country surrounded by Spanish-speaking countries, and Americans see far more Hispanics than they do Brazilians. When I was applying to college, my guidance counselor would come to me with countless scholarships for "Latino" students. And invariably, there would be a place on the form that would say "Brazilians need not apply"

"Brazilians need not apply" -- wow! I had no idea. At any rate, I didn't think this would be the basis for not including Portugal in a historically inspired New World setting. IIRC, the basic Civ4Col map includes both North and South America. Although the Dutch had a small presence in both North and South America while the Portuguese manifested themselves in a big way down in South America only, I thought the Portuguese were more relevant as a "colonizing" power than the Dutch, certainly as far as controlled landmass and population were concerned. Either way, it's arguable. ;)

Early on, btw, the territory of French Louisiane + Quebec/Nouvelle France was comparable to the size of Brazil, or pretty darn close.

Early on, btw, the territory of French Louisiane + Quebec/Nouvelle France was comparable to the size of Brazil, or pretty darn close.

Well, it gets a little hazy because while the French controlled vast territories on paper, the reality was that they only settled very small portions of that territory. But the same was true of the Portuguese in Brazil. I think modern Brazil is slightly larger than the combined French territories. Hence why I only used the word "vastly" larger in comparison to the Dutch territories ;)


And no, you didn't give any impression that you disagreed, but my point was that it really doesn't matter how much territory the Portuguese controlled outside of the Americas. They could've controlled all of Africa and Asia, but without any colonies in the New World, I would not think they had a place in the game. But since they did and since Brazil is so large, it does justify their being in the game.


"Brazilians need not apply" -- wow! I had no idea. At any rate, I didn't think this would be the basis for not including Portugal in a historically inspired New World setting. IIRC, the basic Civ4Col map includes both North and South America. Although the Dutch had a small presence in both North and South America while the Portuguese manifested themselves in a big way down in South America only, I thought the Portuguese were more relevant as a "colonizing" power than the Dutch, certainly as far as controlled landmass and population were concerned. Either way, it's arguable.

The reason why the Dutch are included? One word: Manhattan.

I'm sure "Yankees" are quite happy to learn the term might come from "Jan-Kees" (or Jan-Kaas, John-Cheese), hence the Dutch connection.

I'd also add two more words: Sid Meier.:p

Alright, I've added the code necessary to have the plantation system I was discussing earlier. I still have to actually add the plantations in.


Your just going to use the planations from civ4 right? no need for new graphics I think. Are you going to have it that only Expert cotton planters etc are able to build the plantations. It would be restricting but I think better than having pioneers do it ll.



Right now though I'm working on adding in the loan system I was discussing earlier. That's going pretty well and hopefully I can have that done by the end of the weekend.

Getting a great formula for it might take a little longer and will require more community feedback I'm sure ;)



But the basic formula is that you will be able to get small loans in the early game at moderate interest rates. As you develop, the banks will offer bigger and bigger loans, and if you keep your debt low, at reasonable interest rates. You can take out several loans in a short period of time, but the interest rate will build up quite rapidly that way. Accumulated debt will also reduce the amount of money the bank will be willing to lend in the future.

My plan is that if you have outstanding debt, goods sold in Europe will go towards paying that debt. You will not get gold from transactions until the debt has been paid. Gold traded through diplomacy, however, will not go directly towards the debt (but you can pay the debt at any point obviously).

Debt will also count negatively toward your final score as well. I figure this is a good way to prevent players from taking out a huge loan at the very end of the game and then declaring independence with no intention of ever paying the money back. If you're not going to be doing much trading with Europe anyway in the end, there's no incentive to pay it back. Negatively affecting the score then seems like a good solution. Huge debt will also make it less likely that other European players will intervene on your behalf.

adding some of the financial aspects like banking and insurance that made colonization possible would be cool. but how will it interact between players? use it to minimize events or taxes?


another idea
i was thinking of having some colonization code go to civ4 and ran into the issue of where does the money come from. My idea, and maybe you can use this for your mod, is have silver (and add gold and copper) instead of being sold be able to be converted to cash (coinage) like lumber comverts to hammers. of course make it more profitable to send it to europe like the spanish historically did, but it would be cool to generate some cash in the colonies through a metalsmith.

:)

Well, the Dutch played more of a role in US history than the Portuguese ever did. I lived in Bergen county New Jersey for most of my life with countless streets named after Dutch people I've never heard of in history. Two of America's Presidents, Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt, came from a Dutch family that first settled in New Amsterdam in the 1600s. Then there's more peripheral things such as the Puritans having settled in the Netherlands for a period of time and Britain's long-standing ties with the Netherlands.

And ultimately, even though it isn't presented as such, this is a game that's about American history and America's Revolutionary War. Everything in the game is based on the American colonial experience. I don't have a problem with this, but it seems to me like they kind of draped a little bit of flavor from the history of Latin America in there and marketed it as a general Age of Discovery game when it really isn't.

Your just going to use the planations from civ4 right? no need for new graphics I think. Are you going to have it that only Expert cotton planters etc are able to build the plantations. It would be restricting but I think better than having pioneers do it ll.
Hey, if you want to do some graphics for these specific crop types... ;)

And the problem with the expert planters is that they're rather late arrivals to the game. I want to remove all of the crops from the game map. So the only sources of these crops will be from tiles with plantations on them, so the plantations have to be buildable very early.

adding some of the financial aspects like banking and insurance that made colonization possible would be cool. but how will it interact between players? use it to minimize events or taxes?
Well, the loan system is fairly simple (as I've designed it). You can take money and pay the money back (money will be automatically paid back from your European sales too). Your debt will affect two things: your score, and your relations with other players. If you have huge debts, other players will be less likely to help you. There has to be some kind of a penalty for racking up huge debts so that it's not abused by players.


another idea
i was thinking of having some colonization code go to civ4 and ran into the issue of where does the money come from. My idea, and maybe you can use this for your mod, is have silver (and add gold and copper) instead of being sold be able to be converted to cash (coinage) like lumber comverts to hammers. of course make it more profitable to send it to europe like the spanish historically did, but it would be cool to generate some cash in the colonies through a metalsmith.
Yes, you're right. I've been thinking about this too. Silver & gold should be converted directly to gold (money).

And ultimately, even though it isn't presented as such, this is a game that's about American history and America's Revolutionary War. Everything in the game is based on the American colonial experience. I don't have a problem with this, but it seems to me like they kind of draped a little bit of flavor from the history of Latin America in there and marketed it as a general Age of Discovery game when it really isn't.

Yeah, that's specifically where I was going with this. Civ4Col is definitely wrapped around Washington's belly button as a general concept. It definitely begs for an Age of Discovery development -- which connects with the object of this thread. Soooo.... I'll now leave all this in your capable hands. :lol:

Dom Pedro I really like the Loan idea its pretty cool. Colonial Debt was part of the reason for the stamp act crisis. Maybe the debt could be used as leverage against the crown forces like if you pay the debt off the REF forces will shrink but if you don't pay the debt the crown will increase its forces to eventually make those stubborn colonists pay up when they do revolt. Also can you make Sugar Planters availible in Europe because Sugar is a European plant :)

Dom Pedro I really like the Loan idea its pretty cool. Colonial Debt was part of the reason for the stamp act crisis. Maybe the debt could be used as leverage against the crown forces like if you pay the debt off the REF forces will shrink but if you don't pay the debt the crown will increase its forces to eventually make those stubborn colonists pay up when they do revolt. Also can you make Sugar Planters availible in Europe because Sugar is a European plant :)

There's a number of things that can be done with the debt. However, since you're borrowing the money from a European "bank" rather than the crown, it wouldn't make much sense if th crown comes to collect the debt. But REF could still be affected by the level of your outstanding debt a the time of the revolution.

And yes, the Sugar Planter thing is a bit silly. In fact, among the crop resources in the game, only Tobacco is actually indigenous to the Americas. It's also a bit silly that you can train Expert Ore Miners in native villages considering that very few Pre-Columbian civilizations knew anything about metalworking (and even then only soft metals like gold), and I doubt they had anything to teach the Europeans about mining.

Just... for an update:

I've gotten the loan system up and running. I haven't coded all of the details about the debt and how it affects score, player relations, etc. But there is now a new button on the top left hand corner of the screen for loans. When you push it, a popup appears telling you the maximum amount the bank will lend right now and your interest rate increase.

If you have outstanding debt, there will be a third button that will allow you to pay back some of the loan. If you push that, a new popup will appear that will let you input the amount you want to pay back.

I haven't decided where exactly I want to put the debt. I figure it should probably be on the main interface... maybe next to the amount of gold you have.

I was going to post some screenshots, but it was late and I was tired. I'll have something up later tonight when I get home from work.

Just... for an update:

I've gotten the loan system up and running. I haven't coded all of the details about the debt and how it affects score, player relations, etc. But there is now a new button on the top left hand corner of the screen for loans. When you push it, a popup appears telling you the maximum amount the bank will lend right now and your interest rate increase.

If you have outstanding debt, there will be a third button that will allow you to pay back some of the loan. If you push that, a new popup will appear that will let you input the amount you want to pay back.

I haven't decided where exactly I want to put the debt. I figure it should probably be on the main interface... maybe next to the amount of gold you have.

I was going to post some screenshots, but it was late and I was tired. I'll have something up later tonight when I get home from work.

Good to hear about the progress, one suggestion for most of where to put all this is maybe a Financial Advisor screen of some sort. This might be a little more then you want to put in there, but it might be an easy way to show the values of the gold exchange and negitives (or positives) to income. :goodjob:

And we want screenshots... :whipped: (LOL :joke:)

And we want screenshots... :whipped: (LOL :joke:)

Ask and ye shall receive ;)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=191605&stc=1&d=1224194542

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=191606&stc=1&d=1224194542

I increased the size of some parts of the image so that people can see it more clearly since I shrunk down the image to fit well on the forum. The number next to the gold is your debt amount. There's supposed to be a smaller red gold stack next to the regular gold stack, but for some reason, it's not appearing... I'm going to work on fixing that. I've figured out what I did wrong and have corrected it.


http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=191649&stc=1&d=1224210321

I've added the ability to sell your ships in Europe. The price is based on a base price plus the costs of yields required to produce the ship.


http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=191650&stc=1&d=1224210321

I've also added a new unit called a Coastal Trader. It's essentially a floating Wagon Train. It has the same storage capacity, can only carry goods, and can't make the trip to Europe. But it only requires a Dock and is very cheap to build.

Ok, I've posted more screenshots in the above post. I'll feel comfortable enough with these changes to release an initial version soon.

Of course, most of the really big stuff like the Africa screen and the new plantation system are still on the drawing board. But this is a start.

Very awesome DPII!! :goodjob:

I like the new Button on the Main Interface, that rocks. Selling ships is also a very good idea and I think will add more fun to the game. :band:

There's a number of things that can be done with the debt. However, since you're borrowing the money from a European "bank" rather than the crown, it wouldn't make much sense if th crown comes to collect the debt. But REF could still be affected by the level of your outstanding debt a the time of the revolution.

And yes, the Sugar Planter thing is a bit silly. In fact, among the crop resources in the game, only Tobacco is actually indigenous to the Americas. It's also a bit silly that you can train Expert Ore Miners in native villages considering that very few Pre-Columbian civilizations knew anything about metalworking (and even then only soft metals like gold), and I doubt they had anything to teach the Europeans about mining.

How bout if you borrow the money and you decide not to pay it back and the crown drops your taxes a bit because of pressure in parliament from the bankers and merchants who want you to pay back some of that money thus lowering your tax rate but angering the king.

Very awesome DPII!! :goodjob:

I like the new Button on the Main Interface, that rocks. Selling ships is also a very good idea and I think will add more fun to the game. :band:

I'm just glad I actually did something with python and the universe didn't end :p It's not exactly my strong spot.

As for selling ships, I think it will be very useful. If you start the game with a Caravel, you can essentially trade it in (with some extra gold of course) for some other ship like a Merchantman. But it also opens the possibility for the player to set up a ship-building business like New England did in the later game. Rather than trade in cash crops, you could focus on building and selling ships.

How bout if you borrow the money and you decide not to pay it back and the crown drops your taxes a bit because of pressure in parliament from the bankers and merchants who want you to pay back some of that money thus lowering your tax rate but angering the king.
Well, I'm not inclined to give rewards for not paying back a loan.

To all: Okay, so I'm planning to release my mod either tonight or Sunday. Then I'll let you guys find all my bugs while I work on the next game components :)

I'm going to make a couple small changes to these things now. First, I'm considering that Coastal Traders also need to be unable to enter undiscovered territory so that people don't exploit them as cheap exploration vessels. Btw, there's now a new XML tag that I used for this unit that prevents a unit from being able to sail to Europe.

I also need to solidify the max loan amount and interest rate formula because right now you'll just get the max amounts that modders can change in the XML.

My next battle is with the plantations. I'm not particularly familiar with the art stuff, so that's going to be the big problem because I'm not adding any new functionality (I already added it to the SDK :) ).

Nice to see the mod is moving on. :)

I have one question before I start playing with this mod: What happens to goods or units on the ship when you are selling the ship?

Will you inlcude Dale mods?

Nice to see the mod is moving on. :)

I have one question before I start playing with this mod: What happens to goods or units on the ship when you are selling the ship?
Well, if you decide to sell a ship that is actually loaded with cargo at the time, units will be dumped on the dock and goods will be sold.

Will you inlcude Dale mods?
Depends on whether he provides source code :)

I don't know if anyone noticed, but I released the earliest version of my mod in the mod subforum... hasn't gotten much interest though :(

Depends on whether he provides source code :)


Source code for the patch and patchmod are included in the downloads. :)

I don't know if anyone noticed, but I released the earliest version of my mod in the mod subforum... hasn't gotten much interest though :(

I didn't know there was a find the mod contest..

But I found it (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=295813), so what do I win..? :P

Dom Pedro I noticed and I'm excited about your mod :)

I don't know if anyone noticed, but I released the earliest version of my mod in the mod subforum... hasn't gotten much interest though :(


Ask and ye shall receive


+1 :)

I didn't know there was a find the mod contest..

But I found it (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=295813), so what do I win..? :P

Isn't it running till December... maybe add one of your many mod's into the mix for the big win :)

I was thinking about the first page of posts when I thought about this plan for incorporating slaves/criminals/indentured servants. Why not make it like a pyramid effect? You have one cotton plantation being run by a expert cotton planter. He produces lets say 6 cotton per turn and consumes 2 food. He has 3 slots underneath him though for those mentioned above. Plug a slave in underneath him and the plantation starts churning out more cotton. It would take more food though, but maybe not as much as was being used for free colonist. Maybe each slave slot only takes up 1 food each? I really don't have much else, but I think that's one way to implement the slavery aspect of colonization.

I was thinking about the first page of posts when I thought about this plan for incorporating slaves/criminals/indentured servants. Why not make it like a pyramid effect? You have one cotton plantation being run by a expert cotton planter. He produces lets say 6 cotton per turn and consumes 2 food. He has 3 slots underneath him though for those mentioned above. Plug a slave in underneath him and the plantation starts churning out more cotton. It would take more food though, but maybe not as much as was being used for free colonist. Maybe each slave slot only takes up 1 food each? I really don't have much else, but I think that's one way to implement the slavery aspect of colonization.

That's actually a very interesting suggestion. At this point, I think it's probably the best way to address this issue, but it's also the one that's most likely to be limited by what we have access to change in the code. I'm definitely going to keep this idea in mind because it's a great one!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/screenshot8_0Al.jpg

New screenshot for ya...

I've added port closings. Instead of boycotting your goods, the king threatens you with a closed port.

After the Boston Tea Party, England ordered the closing of the port of Boston until the lost tea was repaid.

In this case, ports are closed until you declare independence which means you cannot load or unload goods by boat. You can still use the Wagon Trains, and ships can still load and unload units, but the port will be closed to commerce.

I'm considering a couple of possibilities for this: 1) A timer so that the port will only be closed for a set number of turns, 2) The ability to negotiate with the king for the reopening of a port.

I've also added the imperial fleets. The numbers and kinds of imperial ships are dependent on the number of tiles you control. So either more cities or more liberty bells (expanded culture borders) will increase the imperial navy's presence on the map. Curently, you'll start seeing Man O Wars after you've built your 3rd city, but that might be tweaked in the future.

very cool :D

I've added port closings. Instead of boycotting your goods, the king threatens you with a closed port...
After the Boston Tea Party, England ordered the closing of the port of Boston until the lost tea was repaid.

Awesome idea!

I'm considering a couple of possibilities for this: 1) A timer so that the port will only be closed for a set number of turns, 2) The ability to negotiate with the king for the reopening of a port.

Could the king remember how much price-wise was dumped? You could then set the timer based on the value of the goods dumped and/or pay off the king based on the price of the goods dumped.

For example, you dump 100 tons of cigars at 10gp, which means you owe the king 1000gp. The port would then be closed for X amount of turns where X = 1000/Y (which could be 10, 20, or more depending on how long you want the port closed). If you want to pay off the king you just give him 1000gp (or even have the cost to reopen decrease by Y each turn).

another idea

when you have too much of a good in a city currently the game just dumps it. which i guess is asimplification of what happens economically. wouldn't it be better if it drops the price of the good and its other components. like if its too much tobacco the sell price drops and so does cigars to demonsrate excess supply? not sure how tough its to implement.


on another note - how much of your work has been sdk? is pretty easy to identify how the resource code works and possibly port it over to civ4bts?

another idea

when you have too much of a good in a city currently the game just dumps it. which i guess is asimplification of what happens economically. wouldn't it be better if it drops the price of the good and its other components. like if its too much tobacco the sell price drops and so does cigars to demonsrate excess supply? not sure how tough its to implement.
Well, I do think that prices should fluctuate more depending on quantity. I think sell prices in Europe do fall depending on how much you've traded. I'm not sure if they should fall if they're not actually on the market (i.e. being stockpiled in a city).

One thing I want to add is that when you sell raw materials in Europe, there will be a corresponding drop in price of the processed goods made from that raw material. Of course, the buy prices should be fighting against this... so if you sell 200 Cotton and drive down the price of Cloth one turn, you can't come back 15 turns later and expect the price to just as low.

another note - how much of your work has been sdk? is pretty easy to identify how the resource code works and possibly port it over to civ4bts?
The vast majority of it is SDK changes. Even where I could've done it in python, I didn't because I'm all thumbs when it comes to python. The only places where I used python was where I had no choice.

The loans should be easy to port, but the rest of it really wouldn't be compatible because the games play in totally different ways. There's no "Europe" to sell ships in, and there's no monarch that can demand taxes or else close your ports.

The vast majority of it is SDK changes. Even where I could've done it in python, I didn't because I'm all thumbs when it comes to python. The only places where I used python was where I had no choice.


This is just mainly curiosity more then anything, but do you still expose your new functions to python? It is a great help when you are importing that information, changing numbers, etc.. From not only screens, but anything else you want to do in python if those are exposed.

I am sure you already know how to do this, but it is not something to look over as it adds extra functionality to the code :goodjob:

I generally don't expose the code to python. This isn't because I don't know how to or based on any kind of objection to it, I'm just lazy and opposed to doing unnecessary work :)

Some of the functions are exposed because I needed to expose them to work with the python changes I've made, but I will usually expose code upon request. I take your curiousity as a request, so I'll work on exposing the rest of it ;)

I generally don't expose the code to python. This isn't because I don't know how to or based on any kind of objection to it, I'm just lazy and opposed to doing unnecessary work :)

I hear ya there on the lazy part, I usually wait to do the exposing :wow: to last if I can.

But don't get me wrong, any internal functions really don't need to be exposed. I don't mean to suggest anything that would be a waste of course. :)

An example just to make sure we have the same definition on internal :

For example, if you have a function to change the number, but then a function that all it does is add that change to the base... I mean the function that just adds that change would be internal, and the change function would not be.


Some of the functions are exposed because I needed to expose them to work with the python changes I've made, but I will usually expose code upon request. I take your curiosity as a request, so I'll work on exposing the rest of it ;)
:goodjob:
Cool, I just wish the developers had that general idea sometimes heh :) So many functions in the SDK could easily be exposed, and add more functionality to Python Mods, but that is just IMO :)

I generally don't expose the code to python. This isn't because I don't know how to or based on any kind of objection to it, I'm just lazy and opposed to doing unnecessary work :)

Some of the functions are exposed because I needed to expose them to work with the python changes I've made, but I will usually expose code upon request. I take your curiousity as a request, so I'll work on exposing the rest of it ;)

Speaking of code methods, you aren't hardcoding any physical values, but exposing them through xml? If you need help doing this just ask. :)

Speaking of code methods, you aren't hardcoding any physical values, but exposing them through xml? If you need help doing this just ask. :)
Glad you're a fan of my previous work, Dale ;)

I have been having some trouble with trying to add new build types though. I added three for a Sugar Plantation, Cotton Plantation and Tobacco Plantation. But the buttons only appear sometimes with no apparent pattern. The improvements also don't give the right yields when I can actually build them.

yet another idea

i see the johny smith figured a way out in civ4bts to have corporation and religion screens only show if they have been founded. maybe for the city screen similar code can be used to only show the resources you have is storage that way you have room for any new resources you plan on modding in

yet another idea

i see the johny smith figured a way out in civ4bts to have corporation and religion screens only show if they have been founded. maybe for the city screen similar code can be used to only show the resources you have is storage that way you have room for any new resources you plan on modding in
Yeah, that's actually a fairly simple thing to do and it makes good sense. You're unlikely to have every good in every city. People probably wouldn't have to rescale resources then if they add new ones to the game.

I don't know if this has been brought up or not, but if the game is to be expanded very much at all, city management needs to be changed to be more like civ4. Using the Colonization system, every time you add a resource or cash crop, you'll have to add three buildings, two specialists, and an extra container bin at the bottom of the screen.

Plus I hate dragging people around so they're working in the right buildings.

Is there any reason the Russians couldn't be included too? Have them show up on the West coast and settle from Alaska down to Northern California.
Also Belgium, Scandinavia and Germany would be fun. Not historically 100% accurate, but it's a big continent and the more the merrier.

Oh, and the Incas and Aztecs should be regional powers. They have much more in common with the Europeans than with, say, the Tupis. Making them playable would be nice, too.

I don't know if this has been brought up or not, but if the game is to be expanded very much at all, city management needs to be changed to be more like civ4. Using the Colonization system, every time you add a resource or cash crop, you'll have to add three buildings, two specialists, and an extra container bin at the bottom of the screen.

Plus I hate dragging people around so they're working in the right buildings.

Since Colonization is a Settlement Management game, I don't think it would make much sense to take out the Settlement Management part...

I've updated the list of [http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=295813]current and planned changes[/url].

I'm going to need Slave unit art soon. Anybody know where I can find this from Civ4 maybe? Or if not, anybody want to make this for me? ;)

I just had a thought that would fit for you. Since you are stripping the map of resources.. don't forget silver. Although not a cash crop, certain mountain ranges and areas were better at producing it than others in Middle and South Americas.

Some mechanics of Colonization that needs addressed IMO - is the REF and taxes (perhaps a conqueror type of player keeps the King happy by sending treasures back to Europe and King relations improve if had been giving the king cash on the side which means can get Vet. Soldiers and Cannons at a reduced rate, lack of being able to train a Veteran Soldier yourself, lack of custom house, lack of indian funds to trade middle and end-game (some of these might have been addressed already but that's what's wrong with 'vanilla Col' ). Also I think the AI and/or UI for auto-trade is horrid (both Settlement to Settlement and Settlement to Europe). I am intrigued with your Triangle Trade and hope it works.


I like your mod in theory. Hope it all works out, look forward to playing.

I just had a thought that would fit for you. Since you are stripping the map of resources.. don't forget silver. Although not a cash crop, certain mountain ranges and areas were better at producing it than others in Middle and South Americas.
Silver along with Furs, Ore and Lumber will be left as is on the map. These are raw materials that are 1) indigenous to the Americas and 2) have fixed locations. Crops have much greater flexibility in terms of where you can grow them, these other things don't.

Some mechanics of Colonization that needs addressed IMO - is the REF and taxes (perhaps a conqueror type of player keeps the King happy by sending treasures back to Europe and King relations improve if had been giving the king cash on the side which means can get Vet. Soldiers and Cannons at a reduced rate, lack of being able to train a Veteran Soldier yourself, lack of custom house, lack of indian funds to trade middle and end-game (some of these might have been addressed already but that's what's wrong with 'vanilla Col' ).
Yeah, I think that there isn't really a particularly good route for working with the King. I would also like to open up the diplomacy screen so you can engage in negotiations with the King.

Also I think the AI and/or UI for auto-trade is horrid (both Settlement to Settlement and Settlement to Europe). I am intrigued with your Triangle Trade and hope it works.
Yeah, Jeckel has dealt with making trade routes easier to use. I intend to merge his stuff into my mod because it's just that good.

This is an early preview of the Africa Screen:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/screenshot9_7mn.jpg

It's still going to be a bit before this is up and running, but you can see where I'm going with it at least.

Nice can you sell rum and guns to the Africans as well as buy slaves?

Nice can you sell rum and guns to the Africans as well as buy slaves?
Yes, Rum, Guns and Horses will be in high demand in Africa. Raw materials will be virtually worthless because they have no way to refine them.

Basically, much of the game will involve you taking raw materials to Europe, selling them, buying processed materials in Europe and then selling those in Africa in exchange for slaves. You can either put the slaves to work or sell them to another player in the New World.

The Africa screen looks really nice... well done ;)

Yea, that looks Screen looks good DPII. :band:

I cant wait to play this mod. Fantasic Job!

In the original Col, forts and above situated on the coast/river mouths could and Would fire upon Privateers and other Hostile AI ships. Cannons iirc were a prerequiste.

JosEPh

In the original Col, forts and above situated on the coast/river mouths could and Would fire upon Privateers and other Hostile AI ships. Cannons iirc were a prerequiste.

JosEPh

Yeah, forts were something I was thinking about addressing, but I didn't hear anybody clamoring for it...

I love forts so... !!CLAMOR CLAMOR!! :lol: ;)

I'm going to need Slave unit art soon. Anybody know where I can find this from Civ4 maybe? Or if not, anybody want to make this for me? ;)

the african worker in arian's varietas delectat should do right?

I'll look into that one.

Also: Do you think that there should be buttons in the Europe and Africa screens to sail from one to the other directly without reentering the main map?

Forts would be cool, maybe a Area of control.. but if that is too much just the forts alone would be awesome I have to agree with Jeckel heh :)

I'll look into that one.

Also: Do you think that there should be buttons in the Europe and Africa screens to sail from one to the other directly without reentering the main map?

And if you do it this way (be honest Either way would be cool) it should take some time to get from Europe to Africa, and it should be longer then it takes from going from the exit point to Europe :)

Wouldn't it be awesome if you could hold two maps, one being the New World and the second being Africa. Then you could attempt to colonise both continents. :)

Ahhhh...... to dream.......

Forts would be cool, maybe a Area of control.. but if that is too much just the forts alone would be awesome I have to agree with Jeckel heh :)
Well, considering he's the one who just released a Fort mod for Civ4, he should be doing the damn forts :p

And if you do it this way (be honest Either way would be cool) it should take some time to get from Europe to Africa, and it should be longer then it takes from going from the exit point to Europe :)
Yes, basically, the unit would go into that Outbound box, stay there until time was up, then switch to the Inbound box for Africa.

Wouldn't it be awesome if you could hold two maps, one being the New World and the second being Africa. Then you could attempt to colonise both continents. :)

Ahhhh...... to dream.......
Well, it's theoretically possible... you'd have to somehow store plot information for multiple maps, then when you switch between maps, it would clear the map and then generate the second map putting all the cities, units, and improvements back in their proper places. Of course, this would be absolutely insane on large maps... I could just imagine flipping between two Huge maps...

But yeah, it would be nice to have those Test of Time multiple maps. Of course, the thing that really stunk about Test of Time was the fact that the transport points between the maps dropped you off at the same coordinates on the new map. So if you made a WWII map with three maps: Europe, USA and Pacific, leaving with troops from New York City would drop you off in Russia on the Europe map and Mongolia in the Pacific map. It would not have been ridiculous to have some sort of ability to invert those points, but they were thinking different planets.. not different locations on the globe.

Well, it's theoretically possible... you'd have to somehow store plot information for multiple maps, then when you switch between maps, it would clear the map and then generate the second map putting all the cities, units, and improvements back in their proper places. Of course, this would be absolutely insane on large maps... I could just imagine flipping between two Huge maps...

Do you mean maps on different "pages", like an Excel file?

Do you mean maps on different "pages", like an Excel file?
Yep. If you've ever played Civilization II: Test of Time, you'll know what I mean. You could alternate between up to four maps. In the base game, there was the main Earth map and then one Alpha Centauri map. You could build transport sites that would remove a unit from one and drop it onto the corresponding tile on the other map.

Please note... I am not saying that I'm going to do this for Colonization! I was merely saying that it was theoretically possible to throw such a system together.

I tried doing that for BtS, but it was just way too hard and system hogging. Plus I just couldn't get the map flipping to work right so I gave up. :)

I tried doing that for BtS, but it was just way too hard and system hogging. Plus I just couldn't get the map flipping to work right so I gave up. :)
I wish we had the Civ2:ToT source code... either way, it's not something I'm too keen on doing.

Here's a screenshot of the Slave pedia:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/screenshot10_EWi.jpg

Notice that the City produces 3 Food and the extra food is none and you've got two citizens, a regular citizen and a Slave that consumes -1 Food:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/screenshot12_Hd5.jpg

This is the purchasing popup in the Africa screen:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/screenshot11_2Ze.jpg

Nicely done... I really like the way this is shaping up... however on the pedia entry is there a way to have it mention the 5% chance to escape? It's mentioned in the history, but since its a special ability I think it should be in that box.

Nicely done... I really like the way this is shaping up... however on the pedia entry is there a way to have it mention the 5% chance to escape? It's mentioned in the history, but since its a special ability I think it should be in that box.

It's not there because I haven't coded it in yet ;)

Right now, I focused on actually getting the Africa screen to work and getting the slaves actually into it. So none of the escape mechanics has been added yet.

It's not there because I haven't coded it in yet ;)

Well that explains that ;)

I can NOT wait to try this.


There should be a way, durring the WoI, depending on what 'civics' you picked for your constitution or charter or whatever its called, your slaves(or ones your capture) would change accordingly.

I can NOT wait to try this.


There should be a way, durring the WoI, depending on what 'civics' you picked for your constitution or charter or whatever its called, your slaves(or ones your capture) would change accordingly.

Well, I'm planning that if you accept the emancipation civic, all of your Slaves will be converted into a new unit called Freed Slave.

the slave looks awesome! but the civilopedia shows only negatives of it, whats the advantage of slavery? bonus cotton and tobacco?

the africa screen would be a great place to test the code where only some trade goods, not all, show up.

the slave looks awesome! but the civilopedia shows only negatives of it, whats the advantage of slavery? bonus cotton and tobacco?
Well, I hadn't planned on there being any bonuses to yield production. Their strengths are: 1) They can be purchased at a fairly cheap price in Africa without price increases for each new Slave you buy, 2) They can be traded to natives and other players through the diplomacy screen (not implemented yet), 3) They consume -1 Food, which means that you can have 3 Slaves in a colony that could only otherwise support 2 regular Colonists, and 4) They aren't factored into rebel sentiment making it easier for colonies with large slave populations to reach the 50% threshold.

Their disadvantages are: 1) Small chance of escape & revolt, 2) Reduced production on processed goods only, 3) Cannot explore or settle NEW colonies, and 4) Cannot be armed in the Revolution without being freed first.

the africa screen would be a great place to test the code where only some trade goods, not all, show up.
Good point. A lot of 0's there ;)

Well, I'm planning that if you accept the emancipation civic, all of your Slaves will be converted into a new unit called Freed Slave.

Have you planned on the stats for the 'freed slave' ? like any kind of spec promotion or anything? Or will they be just like free colos?

Have you planned on the stats for the 'freed slave' ? like any kind of spec promotion or anything? Or will they be just like free colos?
I was thinking they'd be more like converted natives, but I'm open to suggestions on potential special abilities of Freed Slaves.

You're really exciting people with this idea!

I also can't wait :D!

By the way, great ideas regarding slaves. The decreased food cost and the other stats that you've decided on make good sense to me.

Although some tinkering around may be required in play testing (for example if some sort of exploit was discovered), I think this is a good place to start.

Looks nice. But if the 5% escape chance is per turn, it will be 40% after ten turns. Too much.

1% per turn will be 10% after 11 turns.

Its looking great::goodjob:

There comes something into my mind... just a question: Would it be possible, to add different european screens AND get them working for these ... AI?

Since you added an Africa screen, there seems to no problem to add 3-4 more Europe Screens. Or - maybe - just one single additional "foreign Europe" screen. Some rough ideas which are connected to this foreign Europe:


You can only buy goods in foreign Europe, no units.
During WoI you ar able to trade there (limited trading only?)
If you send ships to foreign Europe, your own king will become angry (add some penalties or bonusses here)
Trading with foreign Europe may have some small good or bad effects on relations to foreign players, maybe depending on which goods you bought/selled.
Trading with foreign Europe will have lesser effects on prices then trading in your own home port.
there always is a chance to loose goods (or even ships?) when trading with foreign Europe:

If you are at peace with all european nations, there is a chance, your own king will impound some goods, just becouse he calls it smuggling. "Your Galeon was stopped by a kings war ship. XXX goods of XXX got impound."
if you are at war with one or more Colonies, then the chance will incrace with each power you are in war with. Imagine a message like... "Your Galeon was stopped by an foreign (<--- beeing specific here would be a nice touch as well) war ship. XXX goods of XXX got confiscated."




Again - would htis kind of screen be possible? Or is this an useless idea in general?

Well, there already are AI-controlled corsairs in the game (and pirates?) that effectively do that. On the other hand, it would be nice if a player could pull a "John Paul Jones" on his estranged monarchy, provided the player has managed to gain access to a foreign port in Europe.

Its looking great::goodjob:

There comes something into my mind... just a question: Would it be possible, to add different european screens AND get them working for these ... AI?

Since you added an Africa screen, there seems to no problem to add 3-4 more Europe Screens. Or - maybe - just one single additional "foreign Europe" screen. Some rough ideas which are connected to this foreign Europe:

You can only buy goods in foreign Europe, no units.
During WoI you ar able to trade there (limited trading only?)
If you send ships to foreign Europe, your own king will become angry (add some penalties or bonusses here)
Trading with foreign Europe may have some small good or bad effects on relations to foreign players, maybe depending on which goods you bought/selled.
Trading with foreign Europe will have lesser effects on prices then trading in your own home port....

Again - would htis kind of screen be possible? Or is this an useless idea in general?

Well, it's certainly possible. There are some problems with adding new screens however. I mean, you can add as many screens as you want without issue, but adding new "places" where your ships sail to comes with some problems. For reasons that are not entirely clear to me, Firaxis seems to have hard-coded quite a bit of the code involving traveling to Europe. So for my Africa screen, I had to sort of improvise. It works, but rather than working with Firaxis's system, it's just working around it.

For each new location, it requires more buttons on the interface. I would prefer it if you could click on the Sail to Europe button on the interface and a popup would appear asking you which location you'd like to sail to, but I'm not sure if this could be possible.

At the moment, I'm not sure if the above list warrants a new screen. If so, I'd rather rename the current Europe screen to "Your Country"... so if you're playing as the Spanish, the screen will be the Spain screen... and then there'd be the general Europe screen to represent everything else.



If you are at peace with all european nations, there is a chance, your own king will impound some goods, just becouse he calls it smuggling. "Your Galeon was stopped by a kings war ship. XXX goods of XXX got impound."
if you are at war with one or more Colonies, then the chance will incrace with each power you are in war with. Imagine a message like... "Your Galeon was stopped by an foreign (<--- beeing specific here would be a nice touch as well) war ship. XXX goods of XXX got confiscated."

Well, there already are AI-controlled corsairs in the game (and pirates?) that effectively do that. On the other hand, it would be nice if a player could pull a "John Paul Jones" on his estranged monarchy, provided the player has managed to gain access to a foreign port in Europe.

Well, I have already added in home country navies. So the King's fleet will be seen moving in the vicinity of your cities. These units will protect you against pirates, but they will also stop any of your ships carrying illegal cargo. The two main types of illegal cargo are dependent upon your country's civics, and they include: Slaves and foreign goods.

speaking of navies, any way to implement blockades? but unlike BtS it would be nice if the blockade prevented transport ships from going into those squares - basically making it like there is a closed border agreement. that way you can try and choke out port cities. i guess to try and break it, if you try and enter that square you immediately fight the ships imposing the blockade.

speaking of navies, any way to implement blockades? but unlike BtS it would be nice if the blockade prevented transport ships from going into those squares - basically making it like there is a closed border agreement. that way you can try and choke out port cities. i guess to try and break it, if you try and enter that square you immediately fight the ships imposing the blockade.
The game already has blockades. If a transport ship shows up, you sink it :) That's what a blockade is. Civ4 requires a specific blockade mechanic because there is no physical transportation of goods.

Well, I have already added in home country navies. So the King's fleet will be seen moving in the vicinity of your cities. These units will protect you against pirates, but they will also stop any of your ships carrying illegal cargo. The two main types of illegal cargo are dependent upon your country's civics, and they include: Slaves and foreign goods.

Not that I think more really needs to be added as regard naval warfare, but what I was suggesting was using corsairs on European coasts against one's original liege, such as John Paul Jones operating from French ports against English interests. I couldn't see how your answer addressed my point. :confused:

Not that I think more really needs to be added as regard naval warfare, but what I was suggesting was using corsairs on European coasts against one's original liege, such as John Paul Jones operating from French ports against English interests. I couldn't see how your answer addressed my point. :confused:
Well, it looked like you were responding to the poster above who was asking for the King to periodically confiscate cargo from your ships. So I grouped the two quotes together and answered them both at once.

Attacks on European ports would be nice, but it would also require that Europe actually be in the map too ;)

I never said "attack ports." That's your assumption. What I said went more along the lines of being a nuisance to the former liege, such as "working against someone's interests". I know there is no map for the European ports, and I never thought you'd add any. What I implied was something abstract by nature.

Well, my latest efforts have been to get the Civ4 civics screen in Colonization... I got the screen to appear, then tried to correct a bug and broke it completely :p

But hopefully I can have a screenshot in the next few days of that. Python's not my strong suit, so I've got my fingers crossed that I won't need to seek outside help for this...

If so, I'd rather rename the current Europe screen to "Your Country"... so if you're playing as the Spanish, the screen will be the Spain screen... and then there'd be the general Europe screen to represent everything else.I agree on that point. Something like that would be fine to me.


Well, I have already added in home country navies. So the King's fleet will be seen moving in the vicinity of your cities. These units will protect you against pirates, but they will also stop any of your ships carrying illegal cargo. The two main types of illegal cargo are dependent upon your country's civics, and they include: Slaves and foreign goods.Ah, I see; I didn't know this. How about combining this with the new, additional europe screen? The effects of my rough ideas don't need always to be negative, there also may appear positive results: additional cargo, more speed (+1 movement) for this particular unit for X turns becouse of new maps or such. Lots of ideas come into my mind...