Check out this savegame of the GOTM09.

Retire and look at the history. Look at how fast he's growing. If you ask me that's simply impossible. What do you think?

Edit: Should be "Kouznetsov" instead of "Kournetsov".

I have never seen anything like it. Sad that someone just have to cheat.
At first i thought he might use the whip under depoism but then again how could he attack on the same time considering his cities have to be on 1 most of the time because of his massive settler building. He was also able to build wonders at the same time and research very fast. At the end he was expanding even faster and he had republic. Under republic you cant rushwhip and he could never afford so many settlers. I also noticed his many big cities.. where did all the settlers came from. A last thing was that he had a big problem with money. That meant he could´nt research fast and he did not earn alot of money.
Conclusion: this is a cheater and he should be banned from GOTM :(
thumbs down :ar15: :sad: :rocket:

Hmm, I´d say NOT possible. I only played until 10AD in that GOTM, no more time, but my plan was similar, early conquest. I researched directly to the Great Lighthouse, only 3 or 4 settlers left my capitol before starting the project. Yet, it was completed almost 1000years later. While his cities still where churning out settlers at an enormous rate.

Ok, let´s do some simple calculation:
Thebes has excess food of 3 under despotism, no matter any irrigation. This means it needs 7 turns to grow. So, it can produce a settler after a minimum of 14 turns. Would be 700years. So, 3300BC.
Let´s assume the first 2 cities being settlers from huts (Memphis, Heliopolis). Then Elephantine would be the first that can be produced by a "real" settler. The next settler from Thebes can then be produced only much later.
The other 2 cities have excess of 2 food, needing 10 turns to grow =20 for a settler. So, they can produce a settler earliest after 1000 years after founding.
But after Elephantine, 4 cities are made within 5 turns. Ok, let´s assume all huts on the continent (5 IIRC) give a settler, which is almost impossible.
Now all hut settlers are used, we look at the next time interval, the next 7 turns. We are now 28 turns after start,
Until that time Thebes can produce a max of 2 settlers (14 turns to reach size 3). The other 2 earliest founded cities can produce only 1 each. So we have a max of 5 settlers, founding 6!!! cities in that time. Let´s assume further, the initial worker is added to another city, we have 3 more to choose from. Then we get the sixth worker, although I doubt that´s possible.
Now, only 2 cities, the last 2 founded earlier, are capable of producing a settler during the NEXT 5 turns, where 3!!! cities are founded. Now we have no possibility of achieving that, at least IMO. :eek:
Now, these calculations did not take into account that Thebes can´t reach the 3 food tile until 10 turns later!!!
And not too mention that it´s IMPOSSIBLE to reach 2 huts with the worker until 3500BC. :rolleyes:

Now, this only took into account the food needed.
He also researched a lot during that time, build military units to explore and even accumulated the shields needed for a Great Wonder. :crazyeye:

I say it´s impossible. Especially when looking at how the game develops further. A good way to achieve such a growth rate is to let a settler only take away ONE pop point. :lol:

But I also say, let´s wait and hope for a reply from the player in question. And to take a look at earlier achievements. His early finishes are spectacular and he won several awards with them. So there should be a closer investigation.
:D

Did you notice how slow the German and American growth was. He got a quick jump on the Japanese and Persians, but even while he was growing on their home islands, the Germans only had 2 cities and the Americans 3 when he arrived around 500 BC.

Just watching him grow on the home island was amazing. He had 8 cities before anybody else had 4. There isn't that much luck available even if every hut was a settler, he couldn't build them that fast and still build the wonders. Either reducing the settler population penalty or increasing the food available might allow for this growth, but there's no way to accomplish this legally.

The only question I have is WHY????


:confused: :confused: :confused:

I think the Lighthouse really shows alot about this game. Memphis built the Lighthouse 32 turns after it was founded. It would have had to produce almost 10 shields a turn, average, to produce the 300 shields required to build. At the finish of the game you cannot get that city to produce ten shields when it is a size 6 city so how it was done from the time it was size one is a pretty good job!!!! Now you could say it was produced by a Great Leader, except there is no evidence that any troops had landed over by Japan yet, to the contrary the Japanese are expanding to the coast about that time. Not to mention that this city produced a temple 2 turns after it was founded or a library 4 turns after it produced the wonder. [There are lots of these miracle builds in the game.]

One other question, how many other people that played GOTM09 had 3 other civs that only had 1 city at 2000BC. This was an Emperor game, the AI expands a bit faster than that at this level.

Sorry to say it but what i can see he have cheated in other games too(well in the deity game).
He created his second city in 3500 BC but allready in 3000 BC he completed the collosus in that very same city.
His third city was created in 3300 BC and in 2430 BC he created the pyramids in that town. In 2230 BC he created the Oracle in the same town. All this was before he went to war.... Is that possible without a leader??
1475 BC great library created, 1425 BC great lighthouse created, 1150 BC hanging gardens created.
How the hell can he place many cities, make many wonders and conquer alot in the same time?

Ok, I think it's quite obvious. :)

I've asked him to read this thread and respond. Till then he will be deleted and banned from the GOTM.
:arrow:

This game is flat-out absurd. It is not physically possible to win a conquest victory on a LARGE, ARCHIPELAGO map on Emperor in 130BC!!! The most damning evidence is not even the player's (impossibly) fast growth, but the slowed growth of the AI civs. The Amercians, Aztecs, and Germans still have not founded a second city in 1500BC. That would NEVER happen in an Emperor game; I've played enough to know. And completing the Great Library in 2070BC? Please. Even in the most rampant 1.21f Deity games I never saw a wonder built before 2000BC, and the first wonder was always the Pyramids or the Oracle, never the Library. Clearly a cheated game.

But I don't understand the motivation here. I mean, why cheat in the first place, but if you're going to cheat at least make it so it's plausible! Did this player honestly think a 130BC CONQUEST victory would go unchecked? Well it's a good thing though, since now those other extremely early finishes in GOTM7 and 8 can be checked as well (that 720AD conquest in GOTM8 especially is a little fishy)

I loaded the game, then i saw the save was on 130BC, then i saw he had taken over the whole world :rofl:

Did you take out his results from his other games, too?
Cause it is unlikely that if he has cheated this rampantly in this game, that he has not cheated in the other ones.
I still see him in the results, but it should be deleted, at least temporarely, until he can give an explanation.
:D

Clear, it is possible, I now the trick, but I won't tell you :lol:

I'm sorry to say this, but when I opened up the savegame of this player from GOTM7, it's clear that there was cheating going on in that game, as well. Every wonder built by the player (NEVER would happen on Deity) at outrageously early dates: the Colossus in 3000BC (at which time he has 3 cities - not likely), Pyramids in 2430BC, Oracle in 2190BC, Great Library in 1475BC, Lighthouse in the SAME CITY in 1400BC (!) It's also rather... suspicious that this player was at war with Russia, Germany, Persia, Rome, and England simultaneously and was advancing on all fronts (in a Deity game, no less). Open up the game and check it out for yourself, if you don't believe me. I suspect something similar in GOTM8, though no savegame has been posted for that yet. It's very disappointing that someone would think they have to cheat in the GOTM. :(

Why would someone cheat in game where the only prize for winning in the honour of the win?

Originally posted by flexo
Why would someone cheat in game where the only prize for winning in the honour of the win?
simple answer: Because he can....
He´s probaly a kid who want to have other think that he is very good at this game, and therefore taking steps toward wrecking this tournament by cheating.
when you play an online tournaments/games(no matter what game it is) there will allways be cheaters i guess :(

I haven't actually looked at the savegame, but from what the others have posted, it does look like he/she probably cheated.

However, shouldn't it be "innocent until proven guilty"?? It is useful to post the save to get lots of input into whether he/she has cheated, but couldn't it have been posted without the username?

It could be posted later when the person is found to have cheated.

Good point. :cool:

Matrix, I think you have mailed him.
Any answers from him about this?

Take a look at the demo and there's your proof right there. That's blatant cheating. If matrix wasn't 100% sure he cheated he wouldn't have posted his name i think.

I just returned from my buisiness trip and could not end my GOTM9 though I was so close to win.:( I send to Valeri Kouznetsov email written on russian language. May be it help us to know the real state of things. May be it was unknown bug?

If you watch the replay of this game there is an incredibly fast build out. Here are the first 10 cities and their founding date:

Thebes 4000 bc
Memphis 3650 bc
Heliopolis 3550 bc
Elephantine 3200 bc
Alexandria 3150 bc
Pi-Ramesses 3050 bc
Giza 3000 bc
Byblos 2950 bc
El-Amarna 2800 bc
Hieraconpolis 2750 bc

In this start location, the absolute fastest Thebes can hit size three and produce the first settler is 3150. The only bonus square at the start location is the cow and it isn't available until your borders expand. Even if a settler was built at 3150, the earliest possible city it could settle is the 7th city Giza in 3000 bc and this is if there was a road built right to and on the city location.

The only other possibility is settlers from huts. In this game there are 4 huts on the start and some island are not reachable for the first 6 cities. Clearly these cities were not founded by settlers from huts.

This player definitly cheated.

I have not reviewed the information yet, but I cannot see how they could have gotten so many cities so quickly. I consider myself to be fairly quick at expanding early in the game, and I would be hard pressed to have 10 cities by 1500 BC let alone 2750BC!!!!

Trying to maintain a fair and unbalanced view point though, has any one heard from the accused? It would be nice to get an honest answer as to what happened. Also I don't think it was totaly fair to post the name until after it had been evaluated that it was indeed cheating. (although I am inclined to say that I can't see any other way they could have achieved these results in that timeframe!!!!):mad:

Maybe he had a really fast comp :)

Originally posted by Barker
Maybe he had a really fast comp :)

I tried using 220 volts on my computer and got slightly better results.

Regarding the issue of "innocent until proven guilty"

Matrix spotted a suspicious save game (or was notified by someone)

He, as GOTM admin reviewed it and decided there was a possible case to answer.

The game was opened to study by a "jury" of the accussed peers.

The accused has not been presumed guilty, any more than any other accused person.

But if he fails to defend himself in front of the evidence, then a conclusion may be drawn.

IRL, the identity of the accused is most certainly NOT protected.

And in any case, inspection of the save game would have revealed the identity. After all, there weren't two such rapid finishes, were there? :)

I think it's obvious he adjusted the cost factors in the mod.bic file. Made it so everything was real easy for him (fast growth, everything was cheap for him to build, fast research). And adjusted the cost factor so it took the AI forever to grow and build stuff. The cities cannot be explained by goody huts. The first one, sure, but not any after that. One rule about whether or not you can get a settler from a goody hut is that you must have less than or equal the average # cities of all the other AI.

In my current HOF game, I got 11 cities by 1500 B.C. But I got that by starting on all grassland, getting a free settler at 3700 BC, capturing 2 cities with chariots, building the pyramids at 2070 BC from a great leader I got, and building ICS style. Granted my starting position didn't have much bonus resources nearby, it still would be impossible to get 11 cities by the date he got them at.

Originally posted by MadScot
Regarding the issue of "innocent until proven guilty"

Matrix spotted a suspicious save game (or was notified by someone)

He, as GOTM admin reviewed it and decided there was a possible case to answer.

The game was opened to study by a "jury" of the accussed peers.

The accused has not been presumed guilty, any more than any other accused person.

But if he fails to defend himself in front of the evidence, then a conclusion may be drawn.

IRL, the identity of the accused is most certainly NOT protected.
Sometimes it is - name supression is granted quite frequently for a period.

And more often than not, for some "crimes" people find themselves "labelled", even if they are subsequently found innocent. Look at sex offenders, for example (and NO I'm not saying that cheating in the GOTM is anything akin to a sex offense or any other causal link!)

I think that on the evidence that the person cheated. However, was there malicious intent to deceive, or was it a mistake?



Anyway:

What is gained by publishing the name of the suspected offender, prior to reaching a consensus that he/she has cheated? I don't see any, barring the ability to go back and check previous save games. However, I think that you should be able to make a decision from a single game file.

What is lost? That the person has been branded a "cheater" in the public forum before he/she has had a chance to defend him/herself. No-one will ever want to participate in a PBEM, multiplayer or similar game with this person again. And it may be something as "innocent" as having forgotten to uninstall a mod.

It is naïve to think he was not aware of himself cheating. Come on dude..... this is just getting silly talking about how to reach a consensus. It's only a friggin game ffs.
What's next, getting lawyers involved?

So are you quite happy for him to carry on playing and submitting the GOTM?

After all, "its just a game".

What i am saying is, it's going a bit too far and it's a bit too serious to even compare it with something IRL. Here it's a lot less complicated. Please don't take the former post too personal i just found it somewhat ridiculous.

About him carrying on, i don't see why not. And while we're at it let's change the rules so that everyone can and may freely abuse all known bugs, let all possible cheats run rampant throughout the game only in order to reach the ultimate goal: Get as many points as possible. :spank:

ainwood,

If it will make you feel any happier we could just discuss the already publicly posted game under that name in the GOTM07 submissions.

Perhaps you could take the time to have a look at it and give us your thoughts on that already publicly available game. Your insight may help us determine what has gone on here.

Thanks,

CB

So what will we do if he is guilty?

I would say let him play the GotM of this month and future games like all of us.

Delete the cheated games from the Gotm-Rankings.

OK?

Originally posted by Sullla
I'm sorry to say this, but when I opened up the savegame of this player from GOTM7, it's clear that there was cheating going on in that game, as well. Every wonder built by the player (NEVER would happen on Deity) at outrageously early dates: the Colossus in 3000BC (at which time he has 3 cities - not likely), Pyramids in 2430BC, Oracle in 2190BC, Great Library in 1475BC, Lighthouse in the SAME CITY in 1400BC (!) It's also rather... suspicious that this player was at war with Russia, Germany, Persia, Rome, and England simultaneously and was advancing on all fronts (in a Deity game, no less). Open up the game and check it out for yourself, if you don't believe me. I suspect something similar in GOTM8, though no savegame has been posted for that yet. It's very disappointing that someone would think they have to cheat in the GOTM. :(

Thats so obivious cheating, that makes me wonder why some here still think he might be innocent :confused:
No way would anyone get all those wonders done so early in deity. And dont judge my opinion by my post count, i have been playing these since civ 1, just new here at cfc.

Very much thumbs down for such a cheater. :mad:

Originally posted by Cartouche Bee
ainwood,

If it will make you feel any happier we could just discuss the already publicly posted game under that name in the GOTM07 submissions.
Would anyone have looked at the GOTM7 file if the name of the suspected cheater had not been released? We could have all looked back at the "history" after it had been agreed that a .sav file was the result of cheating, and then the name had been released.

And what say you had looked at this file, and thought that the person was cheating? What would you have done? Personally, I wouldn't have posted it on the forum, I would probably have PM'd Matrix with my reasons as to why I thought the person was cheating. What we don't want is a rush of "this person is cheating" accusations. There's been (unfounded) accusations here before, but IIRC they stopped-short of naming names.

Sorry, but I am yet to see a convincing argument for publishing the name.




Originally posted by Green Light
And dont judge my opinion by my post count, i have been playing these since civ 1, just new here at cfc.
That's exactly what we try to avoid (and no-one seems to listen to me, despite my high(er) postcount ;) )

:lol: :lol:

English
--------------------
Good afternoon.
We Beg pardon for my bad english.
In than strictly problem. I play in CIV since 1996 and much what about it knows.
I did not break nor what rules GOTM. And where is written, with what velocity possible to build the city.
And if someone play better You, that this does not signify that he cheater. And it is impossible declare the cheater of any lucky player.
So I think all your claim groundless.

?????? ????.
? ??? ?????????? ????????. ? ????? ? CIV ? 1996 ? ????? ???? ? ??? ????.
? ?? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? GOTM. ? ??? ????????, ? ????? ????????? ????? ??????? ??????.
? ???? ???-?? ?????? ????? ???, ?? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ?????. ? ?????? ????????? ??????? ?????? ?????????? ??????.
??????? ? ????? ??? ???? ????????? ???????????.

VAK,

Perhaps you could post the .bic file that you play with?



Others;

Isn’t the .bic info stored in the .sav file now? If so, can’t you look in the .sav and see what the production in each of the cities is? (eg. How many shields are needed for a settler, the amount of pop. Points lost when producing a settler etc)?

Does the PowerBar work with 1.21/1.29?

Originally posted by VAK
I did not break nor what rules GOTM. And where is written, with what velocity possible to build the city.


That is written in the rules files.

Valeri, did you by any chance play with a modified version of the game? If not, just tell us where the settler came from that founded Memphis in 3500 BC, since the earliest possible date to produce one is in 3250 BC.

Haven't posted here for a while, also because of my birthday.

First of all, I shouldn't have revealed his name at first, but then again, is that so important?

The accused can't speak English very well: ai.

Anyway, the fact that he might have forgotten to uninstall a mod is unlikely. Even then: that's his fault and the result remains invalid. It only applies on the fact whether he may continue to play on with the GOTM. I think not since his defence is rather weak, yet.

He could attach his civ3mod.bic but how the heck can we know it's even his file?

Sorry, but he's guilty as hell, until proven innocent. We can't wait for this; it's already the 14th and I want to post the results this evening.

Matrix,

It's obvious that his result can't count, so go ahead (I'm not in the results btw because I hadn't finished in time ;)).

But I think it's also important to make him understand what is wrong with his submission, now that he has showed up.

Given his location, I wouldn't be surprised if he had an illegal version of the game, copied from a 'friend' who had made some changes to make such a hard game easier for the human player.

Originally posted by Ribannah

... I think it's also important to make him understand what is wrong with his submission, now that he has showed up.

True.


Given his location, I wouldn't be surprised if he had an illegal version of the game, copied from a 'friend' who had made some changes to make such a hard game easier for the human player.

So behind the "iron coat" are mostly illegal copies? :rolleyes:

Maybe we should send him a normal .bic file and let him play future Gotms normal.

We could see him as having a "yellow Card" like in Soccer.

MAybe all this is a mistake...

I have to agree with the comment of moving on. Enough time has been given for a decent rebuttal, and it seems like nothing substantial came from it. His results should be removed from the tables.

As to whether or not he should be allowed to participate in future GOTM's, I have no problem with that as long as a proper version of the game is used with no mods.

Originally posted by Ribannah
Given his location, I wouldn't be surprised if he had an illegal version of the game, copied from a 'friend' who had made some changes to make such a hard game easier for the human player.
This sounds a bit like discrimination, but anyway, if he got the game illegal, he's not allowed to play the GOTM anyway. :p

I feel as if he shouldn't play future games. I am a strong believer in once a cheater always a cheater. Who can say that in the future he will not still mod his .bic/.sav file, yet in a more subtle, less obvious way.

Just for the record; I didnt check his saved game but if VAL can prove he played by the rules he should have a decent chance to do so. Let him send his bic file and discribe how he played the first few turns (between 4000 and 3000 BC). His early map should then be easely reproduced by any good player (which disqualifies me I am afraid).

The scores of the GOTM can always be adjusted afterwards if so needed. Lets be carefull with our accusations please.

MPF

Although I think that it goes too far to ban the player for future Gotm's I'm afraid that it's probably already too late for him to participate as a "normal player" because, since he apparently cheated in various other gotm's as well, every good result he gets from now on will be looked upon by most players as "cheated", no matter how fair this result may have been obtained.
By cheating in this manner he has obtained a black mark on his reputation which will be very difficult to erase.

Well i am not buying his excuses here. How much of an idiot can you be if you think by editing your basic gamerules you'll playing legit?
Clearly he is trying to look innocent and unaware of how a league is played, conveniently hiding behind his bad english.

Think of this:
If you see the way he played and using his understanding of the game it shows he has to have some intelligence.
Then on the other hand he says he doesn't cheat and that he's just a better player than the rest of us. Or perhaps even more lucky. :rolleyes: It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see he's clearly cheating. So how can he think we'll believe him where he likely has the brains too to figure out he's violating basically all existing rules?

If he does want to play on he'll have to play without his cheat, i doubt he'll like the game that much still then. :lol:

I think he head-shotted meh 4 times in a row playing counterstrike earlier :p

And that through walls. :p

I speak Russian and can help you ask for a clearer explanation/dialogue if you so wish and his email is known. In other words, I could translate your meassage into Russian and his into English. Posting Russian to the board is an alternative, but I don't know if it will work. GOTM 10 will me my first, so I would be impartial for 9.

To be realistic, the versions that are floating around Russia are usually unofficial. But that doesn't mean there aren't some good versions there too or that this person's version was bought elsewhere. I don't know much about how it is usually done, but most versions played in Russia (if illegal) would probably be played in Russian (they hack it and translate it). I don't know how traceable such an action would be.

Ïîïûòêà. Just seeing if the Russian font works here.

I see it normally in Russian. I could translate your message and post it here, I geuss. Let me know.

The second half of his message is in ???? for me and that probably means he tried to write in cyrillic too. I just can't change the font to one my browser reads.

His email is vak@mail.tomsknet.ru. Please ask him to upload his civ3mod.bic to this forum and replace that file with the one zipped in the attachment of this post.

He clearly played with a different civ3mod.bic than standard.

Also ask him whether he has any idea what this file does. ;)

Thanks for the help!! :goodjob:

Originally posted by ukrneal
The second half of his message is in ???? for me and that probably means he tried to write in cyrillic too. I just can't change the font to one my browser reads.
Neither can I, but it looks like he just repeated the first part of his text.

Ok. I sent him an email. I'll let you know as soon as he sends an answer.

I think he should be allowed to play in future GOTM. Everyone will be scrutinising his score from now on, so it will be interesting to see how good a player he is without cheating. Hopefully he is rather useless and for GOTM 10 we can start a mickey taking thread. Name and Shame is definitely the way to go.

simple answer: Because he can....
He´s probaly a kid who want to have other think that he is very good at this game, and therefore taking steps toward wrecking this tournament by cheating.
when you play an online tournaments/games(no matter what game it is) there will allways be cheaters

Wait for multiplayer; only then when can really make up who is the real Elite player! Allthough my gut feeling says that people on this board do not cheat this rampantly and that players like Aeson and SirPleb will dominate in multiplayer too (like they do at the tournament and GOTM).
But then I'll be able to play against them (if they want to!) :goodjob:

ERIKK

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Single player and multiplayer often asks very different strategies. It was already noticable with Civ2.

Anyway, if Valeri always played with a wrong civ3mod.bic, then he's gonna have a hard time playing with the correct rules! :p

Yeah, MP civilization is VERY different and almost not comparable at all. :eek:
Sure, people who are at the top in the GOTM probably know most of the game mechanics very well and therefore may have an advantage due to this fact. But knowing how to play the game is only a rather minor part of multiplayer.
I have yet to see an AI which can be described as playing humanlike and therefore compared to human oppenents. At least for complex computer games like Civ.
:D

I`ve never played MP via a site before, only via LAN (Civ2), could anyone please tell how that is done. Timewise I mean. I can remember playing Civ2 MP took me about a week or two, how do you take care of that problem if I play through site.

besides the new modes (turnless, regicide etc..) I mean

Yeah, MP civilization is VERY different and almost not comparable at all.
Sure, people who are at the top in the GOTM probably know most of the game mechanics very well and therefore may have an advantage due to this fact. But knowing how to play the game is only a rather minor part of multiplayer.
I have yet to see an AI which can be describes as playing humanly and therefore compared to human oppenents. At least for complex computer games like Civ.

Ok, but the game will be harder, because the AI is often so predictable! What I've seen in the civ2 mp threads were games of 4 people playing 2 against 2. I do not know yet what to expect from a civ3 MP game....

The MP game should be a lot harder for some of the top scoreers. If you look at their game play they tend to build for expansion more than military because the AI is consistant with how they play. Having to take into account how a human plays forces you to change and adds a defensive postion to your game. I know when civnet game out years ago my game play changed drastically because of this.

If you look at their game play they tend to build for expansion more than military because the AI is consistant with how they play. Having to take into account how a human plays forces you to change and adds a defensive postion to your game.

Fortunally your military advisor will tell you if the human opponent is building military (or is expanding like you!). No JK ;) I'm sure it will be a different game style, probably more fun playing against humans!

Originally posted by acjvanv
I`ve never played MP via a site before, only via LAN (Civ2), could anyone please tell how that is done. Timewise I mean. I can remember playing Civ2 MP took me about a week or two, how do you take care of that problem if I play through site.

besides the new modes (turnless, regicide etc..) I mean
Well, I can only talk about Civ2 MP and that can be played via IP networks, too.
Some sites offer being the host of such games, but that isn´t necessary. You, when connected to the internet, can always host a game, other people just have to connect to your IP. :yeah:

Civ2 supports several means of speeding up the game. Usually, scenarios, not full games are played, and full games always tend to end rather early instead of going all the way to Alpha Centauri.
And you have to remember the 2x2x function for MP. Meaning double the land movement points and double the production (shields, foods, trade). This definitely speeds up the game but also allows you to build rather huge armies early.

I do believe the production and movement boni are also included in a Civ3 MP game.
:D

Alas, enough of it. (I shouldn't have gone off-topic here. http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/undecided.gif)

Ukrneal, any word from Valeri yet? :confused:

I also havn't answer from VAK.

Originally posted by acjvanv
I`ve never played MP via a site before, only via LAN (Civ2), could anyone please tell how that is done. Timewise I mean. I can remember playing Civ2 MP took me about a week or two, how do you take care of that problem if I play through site.

besides the new modes (turnless, regicide etc..) I mean

They do exist, look at http://civ3.homeip.net/downloads.htm where you can find a Dutchmod :goodjob:
It includes the VOC Galjoen as special unit and you play as Willem van Oranje (of course).

I tried and it works fine, even get Dutch GL's;)

MPF

Even better site is http://www.netrexgp.nl/civ3/ of the creator of the dutch mod so good luck with this.

MPF

I can see there's no talk about cheating or the cheater anymore, so I'm closing this thread. You can continue your discussions at Creation & Customization (Dutch mod) or General Discussions (MP).

Valeri Kouznetsov is dead until he gives a proper response.
Ukrneal and Serg, when he responses, just PM or email me.

I got Valeri's Civ3mod.bic and it's identical with the original. And he said he didn't have a clue what it does and again that he subscribes his fortune to good luck.

But how could that be since the we are unable to reproduce the events in a legitimate way using that same original civ3mod.bic?

No matter how much luck I get in a game there is no way the Great Lighthouse just pops up in one of my cities.

Originally posted by Matrix
I got Valeri's Civ3mod.bic and it's identical with the original. And he said he didn't have a clue what it does and again that he subscribes his fortune to good luck.

Frankly I don't buy that.

He doesn't have a clue on what the .bic file does?

If you look at his profile he's an IT manager. So he should have a clue on how the thing works.

I think we should put this one to rest.

CB and I compared our game files to the suspect game and clearly came to the conclusion that the suspect game was impossible under any legitimate game conditions. CB had a very great and meticulous game. My game was as lucky as any early game could possibly be.

With no rivers on the home continent to stimulate early additional cash for tech spending, the tech progression shown in the game is absolutely impossible.

Here's an image comparing the map positions in 1575BC:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/compare_2_kousnets1.jpg

Cute image. ;)

Indeed. The Kouznetsov chapter (the introduction) is closed. :hammer:

See here for additional discussion of cracker's cool image.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=448226#post448226

Copying a CD doesn't give you a modded .bic file.

And yes, most software used outside the US is a pirated copy. Not ALL, but about 95% or so. While in Turkey, there was even a few places I saw on the street selling software and movies for ridiculously low prices, like $2 - $5 apiece for stuff that just came out. They even went to the trouble to reproduce the CD labels, but you didn't get any kind of manual, and you got it in a baggy or shrink-wrap. Not ragging on Turkey or any other country, but this is a well known, well publicized problem with the overseas market.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with whether this guy cheated, though.

He has been given a ton of opportunity to speak on his own behalf, and has elected to say nothing more than "I'm innocent", which hardly proves anything. All the experts agree that he could not possibly have done what he did without using a cheat. Most likely Powerbar, to keep a modded .bic from showing up, and because I don't think anything else works with 1.29f.

Glad some one who has used Power Bar has finally spoken. To think that someone actually uses this and then submits the game as their own work speaks alot for that person. VAK is not alone with this skill and I'm sure that a few others will show up and be revealed. ;)

CB