I'm making this a thread of it's own so that it's easy for everyone to find (I fully expect a few questions asking when the 034 compatible version of FF is released otherwise).

We're planning on waiting a little longer than usual before releasing an updated version of FF for 034. The main reasons are;

Patch Week - there is normally a period of quick-fix patching for any major release and 034 will probably be the same Major and Overlapping Features in 034 - Some of the changes in 034 are pretty vast in scale and will take some studying before they can be used properly on the new civs. Also, some of the features overlap what we've done already (Ice Mana being the most significant) so we'll be looking at what to do there - in most cases historically I've deferred to the FfH version and that's the most likely case here too. Significant developments for FF - 043 is slated for the inclusion of the Scions and with the additions that Xienwolf has made to the XML lately, a fair bit more beside. It's also going to be a version with some AI tweaking (mostly to help out the Scions, but there may be knock-on effects to general AI behaviour)

Either way - once FF has been installed it's completely stand alone from the main mod these days - so you can keep the existing version of Fall Further installed whilst enjoying the latest from Kael and co (as I intend to) - it's no longer "either/or".

as I've already said, I think waiting for patch week to be over is the best choice.

any chance for the Jotnar to be in alongside the Scions?

I agree, waiting for the patches is best. I have to say though, I prefer the way you handled the ice mana... Although with the changes to the Illians, the FfH version may be necessary. And Gekko, I don't really see the Jotnar being included yet... As awesome as it would be, the Jotnar are still undergoing development, and aren't quite a finished version yet. Maybe if Arctic Circle can crank it out in time... :please:

Well, it appears that FfH patchweek is about over... Now we get to wait a few days, only to sit through FF patchweek. ;)

Unfortunately it turns out that our desire to delay in release was transmitted cosmically, and the Karmic backlash from depriving people of the joys of FF updated for 34 has swamped both Vehem and myself.

We're working on updates, but unfortunately we're also pretty busy and things might take a while.

hahaha, theres no rush guys take your time :) best to get it done right the first time rather than the third time isnt it?

we'll be ( eagerly :D ) waiting. take your time :)

The best laid plans can always go awry... Take as much time as you need ;).

I want it now, dammit, NOW!!!

err wait a minute, I am 41 years old...errr, take your time, gents :lol: :D

I agree, waiting for the patches is best. I have to say though, I prefer the way you handled the ice mana... Although with the changes to the Illians, the FfH version may be necessary. And Gekko, I don't really see the Jotnar being included yet... As awesome as it would be, the Jotnar are still undergoing development, and aren't quite a finished version yet. Maybe if Arctic Circle can crank it out in time... :please:

While I truly appriciate the intrest, firstly I sincerly am not done and do not have the free time to crank it out.. I doubt if anything happens with Jotnar this week. Perhapd sometime next week I can fix things up. But I am pretty finished. ;)

Secondly I think Vehem have enough on his plate. The impression I got is that he would not be very fond of an additional thing to do. But please strongly support the Jotnar as a part of next version of Fall Further.

Not to mention that I do not want to steal any of Tal's thunder, there will be enough discussions about the 'new civ' aka Scions vs other Civs. Both Jotnar and Scions both have rather unique playstyles, and I'd prefer if the 'balance' discussions to be held seperatly.

I want it now, dammit, NOW!!!

err wait a minute, I am 41 years old...errr, take your time, gents :lol: :D

Pretty much exactly what I was going to type!

We can wait patiently if we really have to :D

Thanks for all the hard work.

Main reason I'd like to be able to push it out quickly for you guys is just the gameoption issue with swapping between FF and FfH 034. I cannot imagine it is fun to swap between the two mods regularly and have to reset everything each time :)

But yeah... I'm not sacrificing my teaching or grades to rush anything. However, now that the main update of the manual is done I can work more on getting things updated on this end. I've added a few small tweaks here and there already in the DLL (latest one was to maintain the City Art Style of the base Civilization for each City. Pretty cool looking Decius lands now)

Here is a preview of one of the major code hurdles finally overcome :)

192404

I introduce you to the Civ Select Screen. The screen is launched by attempting to select the last game option (you can read the tooltip if you want, kinda sucks right now though). I say TRY to select the option because the option will never remain selected (it exists only to launch this window, and if it stays selected, this window launches as soon as you start the game).

As you can see, Infernals and Mercurians are even on the list to be changed as playable (for now at least). This screen is how it will look the first time you launch it (well, except it'll have the Scions as well when we actually release)

192407

And in this screen I have restricted the AI to only FF Civs, and allowed myself to wind up with Balseraph, Khazad, Chislev or Austrin (so Chislev and Austrin show as selectable by anyone, and all the base FfH civs show as locked).

These controls only apply when you have Random selection set. If you choose a Civ/Leader manually, then it bypasses these restrictions (so if you want Thessa, but neither of the other 2 Ljosalfar, then you manually select her, and Lock Ljosalfar).


I am not certain, but I am pretty sure that using this in Multiplayer will cause an instant OOS upon the game finally loading. But the change in data might happen to be sent to all computers, so I haven't blocked MP use of the option just yet.

--------------------------------

Note: The Civ Select configuration is saved as long as the game (BtS) is still loaded. So if you finish a game, leave the program active, and start a new one, all of your selections will be saved. But if you quit to the desktop, re-load FF and then go to start a new game, all civs are selectable by random under the default rules (everyone but Hybo/Basium).

Also, if you are too picky about which civs you allow, AI slots get cut. ie - launch a game where only Sidar and Kuriotates are selectable by the AI and you decide to play as Cardith Lorda. Even if you had 33 AI slots open and set on Random, you'll find the map populated by yourself, Sandalphon and another Cardith Lorda (the AI won't give itself the same leader as another AI, but apparently doesn't mind having the same one as the Human).


EDIT:

While I am doing screenshots, here is a more subtle change I have made recently:

192409


If you look closely, you'll notice that the Unique Units listed in the Dawn of Man screen includes those units which are COMPLETELY unique, and it is followed by a list of which units they cannot build which are normally available (same is done for buildings, but they don't all fit on the screen at once. I might need to expand this screen just for that).

This is extended to display in the Civilization section of the Civilopedia, and in the Units/Buildings sections of the Civilopedia as well (ie - Tailor actually tells you it is a unique building for the Kuriotates, instead of appearing to be something available to everyone)

I introduce you to the Civ Select Screen.

Nice! I've always wanted that. Well, since Civ1.


If you look closely, you'll notice that the Unique Units listed in the Dawn of Man screen includes those units which are COMPLETELY unique, and it is followed by a list of which units they cannot build which are normally available.

Cool - that'll be a big help to newbies, I think. (At least that's something I had problems with.)

But.......................... PLEASE, an e.t.a.!?

When will i be playing ff again?

But.......................... PLEASE, an e.t.a.!?

When will i be playing ff again?

This one is mostly my fault - I had to step back a little (as was planned anyway, but I stepped further than I'd originally intended) to sort out work/family, combined with being briefly ill and having some hard drive issues (not on a drive with FF however, and there are plenty of backups around even if it was).

In the meantime however, Xienwolf has been working hard and I arrived tonight to find a number of messages waiting for me - and it seems like he's already done a great deal of the more tedious work (XML/Python merges) as well as implementing some of the niftier features we've been planning for a while (such as the Civ select screen).

In anycase - it's now the half-term holiday (I'm a teacher) so I get a week to myself in which to finally sort out an 043 release. Regarding the ETA - I'll probably say around Nov 1st - simply to allow for some test games before the release.

Thank you very much.... I wish I had some help to offer.

it's great to see you back Vehem :)

@xienwolf: awesome job on the new civ selection screen ;)

The selection screen is really nice work. I wanted something like this for a long time and can imagine some other uses for a screen like this already.

Here is a preview of one of the major code hurdles finally overcome :)


These controls only apply when you have Random selection set. If you choose a Civ/Leader manually, then it bypasses these restrictions (so if you want Thessa, but neither of the other 2 Ljosalfar, then you manually select her, and Lock Ljosalfar).




Question about this, Does this currently only allow one to allow/deny access to a civ to the ai, not leaders?.

If so, do you plan on extending this to allow/deny access to specific leaders for both the player and the ai. (For example(not even sure this is true), but if the AI tends to do much better as Hannah rather than Falmar you can set it so the ai will always get Hannah, but only if the lanun are randomly chosen, but you can get either. Of course the same could be used for player control, if you find that Keelyn is broken with the balphs(at least if you abuse the puppet/summoner combo), then if you get them, you are forced to have Perpentach).

Question about this, Does this currently only allow one to allow/deny access to a civ to the ai, not leaders?.

If so, do you plan on extending this to allow/deny access to specific leaders for both the player and the ai. (For example(not even sure this is true), but if the AI tends to do much better as Hannah rather than Falmar you can set it so the ai will always get Hannah, but only if the lanun are randomly chosen, but you can get either. Of course the same could be used for player control, if you find that Keelyn is broken with the balphs(at least if you abuse the puppet/summoner combo), then if you get them, you are forced to have Perpentach).

It was originally planned to block specific civs from random selection (so that we can effectively allow players to "turn off" the FF civs as they wish - we try to make as much of the content optional as we can) but the leaders option should be possible too (might even be the better way to do it).

This one is mostly my fault - I had to step back a little (as was planned anyway, but I stepped further than I'd originally intended) to sort out work/family, combined with being briefly ill and having some hard drive issues (not on a drive with FF however, and there are plenty of backups around even if it was).

In the meantime however, Xienwolf has been working hard and I arrived tonight to find a number of messages waiting for me - and it seems like he's already done a great deal of the more tedious work (XML/Python merges) as well as implementing some of the niftier features we've been planning for a while (such as the Civ select screen).

In anycase - it's now the half-term holiday (I'm a teacher) so I get a week to myself in which to finally sort out an 043 release. Regarding the ETA - I'll probably say around Nov 1st - simply to allow for some test games before the release.

Might be pushing it at this - hadn't realised at the time but both Xienwolf and myself are away for much of the weekend. Will see what we can do, but it's being awkward at the moment...

If you are running into any technical issues Im glad to help get them straightened out. Dont hesitate to ask.

D'oh! :D no worries, we'll just wait. have a nice weekend ;)

cant wait for this... the cherry on top of the perfect cake.

If you are running into any technical issues Im glad to help get them straightened out. Dont hesitate to ask.

Mostly it is a raw Time factor really, even with the extra week you gave us ;). Lots of overlapping items added which we have to decide how to compromise or which one to stick with (like half of your Civilization Traits are completely useless since we already didn't need the buildings). The merge into patch G itself wasn't too bad after re-sorting the XML, though I am getting crashes here and there (most likely due to me trying to leave some things unchanged for Vehem to decide on later)

If you are running into any technical issues Im glad to help get them straightened out. Dont hesitate to ask.

Mostly it is a raw Time factor really, even with the extra week you gave us ;). Lots of overlapping items added which we have to decide how to compromise or which one to stick with (like half of your Civilization Traits are completely useless since we already didn't need the buildings). The merge into patch G itself wasn't too bad after re-sorting the XML, though I am getting crashes here and there (most likely due to me trying to leave some things unchanged for Vehem to decide on later)

Aye - it's pretty much as Xienwolf said - lack of time. We had a long summer with plenty of progress made, but both of our time tables are pretty much linked to the academic year (I'm a high school teacher and Xienwolf is both studying and teaching) and the first term of the year is always the most difficult (for me at least) until things settle into a routine.

Any technical issues that we've been coming up against are self inflicted anyway (changing the oil on a moving car and all that :D) but on the whole I think it'll be fine given a little time...

I'm a high school teacher and Xienwolf is both studying and teaching)...

Perhaps your students could benefit from a little XML/python/C sweatshop workshop? It'd be fun, plus teach logic and real computer skills!

Perhaps your students could benefit from a little XML/python/C sweatshop workshop? It'd be fun, plus teach logic and real computer skills!

Good idea! Seconded that! + They can have ideas how to improve FF. :D:D

MaxAstro has some interesting mods for the Amurites that he seems to waiting on the new FF release to post. Maybe you could coordinate with him on this.

MaxAstro has some interesting mods for the Amurites that he seems to waiting on the new FF release to post. Maybe you could coordinate with him on this.

I've actually decided to release for the current version of FF; I'm just trying to get Channel working first, which is mainly an issue of getting it to target the proper unit. Once I get that working, I'll just have a few minor tweaks to make to things before I post.

Besides, once the new version of FF is out, it'll probably take me nearly a month just to update all my changes to the new version. :)

And by then FfH 0.40 will be out and it'll start again!

TELL me about it. XD Sometimes it feels like 75% of the work I do is just updating the work I've already done for new patches... :p

EDIT: Channel is (mostly) working. Still one bug I can't crush (can't find a way to effectively prevent the unit from targeting itself, which makes Channeling for any spellcasters weaker than the caster impossible), but I might have to live with that for the release version. The only real issue with that is it makes it impossible for Wizards to Channel for (non-High) Priests and Spellswords. But I can live with that.

So, if all goes well, I'll probably be posting my mod Saturday (gonna be busy tomorrow, obviously :) ).

EDIT2: Although to think of it, Sunday might be more likely, as I may be busy Saturday, too.

If it makes you feel any better 95% of the work on 0.40 is in the scenarios so it won't have nearly the merge requires of other versions. The scenario specific code is run out of a new file that doesn't run unless your playing one of the ice scenarios so mod modders can ignore it.

There are some AI changes being made (I like doing AI and scenario work at the same time since its a lot easier to understand the specifics of a situation in a scenario than on a random map) and 1 new feature added so far. But outside of that it should be a relatively easy merge.

so 0.40 is the one coming right after 0.34 , or will there be some other versions inbetween?

If it makes you feel any better 95% of the work on 0.40 is in the scenarios so it won't have nearly the merge requires of other versions. The scenario specific code is run out of a new file that doesn't run unless your playing one of the ice scenarios so mod modders can ignore it.

There are some AI changes being made (I like doing AI and scenario work at the same time since its a lot easier to understand the specifics of a situation in a scenario than on a random map) and 1 new feature added so far. But outside of that it should be a relatively easy merge.

We kind of figured that was the case. Quite a few big plans for new features ourselves, but unfortunately probably won't be getting them out (or even cleaning up Scions that much) with this next release. But in the future we can make our major version changes be because we are including new features of our own, especially if we wind up with a full team working on things ;)

Gekko;7408985']so 0.40 is the one coming right after 0.34 , or will there be some other versions inbetween?

0.40 is the next version. "Shadow" is done.

We kind of figured that was the case. Quite a few big plans for new features ourselves, but unfortunately probably won't be getting them out (or even cleaning up Scions that much) with this next release. But in the future we can make our major version changes be because we are including new features of our own, especially if we wind up with a full team working on things ;)

Very cool, Im excited to see what you guys come up with. :goodjob: