Format: BTS Pitboss Sequential seems to be concensus
Turn Timer?
Number of teams? Poll open
Game Admins? Any needed for Pitboss?
Rules? Anything really needed if sequential?
Map settings?
Signups
Forums (need #teams)
Announcement
Host
Launch

Format: BTS Pitboss Sequential seems to be consensus :thumbsup:
Turn Timer 24 hours is what I've heard most often. But we'd better poll this, I think.
Number of teams? I'll go vote right now :) (looks like 5 is winning)
Game Admins? I think we need one... just in case. Hopefully there won't be anything for them to do.
Rules? Yes. I think we really need a basic set. At least covering things like exploits and any out-of-game espionage (like creating multiple CFC accounts or something) That last ruleset is a good starting point, I think: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=167795
Map settings: Better poll this one also. I think we need to do a Standard (or maybe even smaller!) map - but that's just me.
Signups: In progress.
Forums (need #teams)
Announcement: I'll work on some pretty pictures for this maybe? :) I think we should wait for the mainpage announcement till we've got the details nailed down. Maybe aim to announce it October 24th? (1 week before start)
Host: DaveMcW?
Launch: October 31st

I am interested in this.

Yes I am a “noob.” I hate that word, btw. I have plenty of experience playing single player Civ 1, 3, and 4. I can usually beat Monarch in BTS. I don't expect to win, but I doubt I'll be as predictable a “noob” as one might expect. And you got to start somewhere, right?

I think we might need to push back tthe start time since we have not recruited well so far.

More todo's.

Start teams -- perhaps one thread for each team.
Encourage breaking up 'ringer' teams? :mischief:
New sign-up thread, or massage the existing one?
Decide if we actually need admins. And who they are.
Get a confirmation from the host that we're still all systems go.

Test sequential pitboss! In particular can the game be paused?

Test sequential pitboss! In particular can the game be paused?

I'd add to that a test to extend the turn-timer from 24 to 48 hours - just thinking ahead to the later game where the turns take a couple of hours to execute. I'm told this can be done, but we want to make sure that the pitboss host can do these things without an error creeping into the save file.

I tested sequential. The game can be paused and unpaused by any team.
Civstats only sends an email at the end of everything, and it shows all but the current team to play as being done. So a turn tracker would be needed.

Thanks DaveShack! :salute:
That's good to know.


Let me respond to this one:
Decide if we actually need admins. And who they are.
I think we'll need at least 1 Admin, just in case a dispute comes up over (God-forbid) someone cheating or something. Better to have an Admin in place from the beginning vs trying to name one in the midst of a fight.

However - I don't think status as an "Admin" must necessarily prevent someone from joining a team and playing. There are a number of players who I would trust to be impartial as an Admin, even if I were on a seperate team from them.
Ginger_Ale, Peter Grimes, & Kylearan all come to mind.

Hopefully their title would just be ceremonial anyway.

I'd be willing to "Adjudicate", but I wouldn't play on a team . I'd rather just lurk all the teams in that case.

But if someone else really wants to do it, and they really want to be on a team as well, I won't have a problem with it.

We do need to have one, though. In each MTDG so far, at least one issue has arisen that's had to be appealed to an out-of-game decider ;)

Hi,

I could have sworn I had posted a reply to this thread, but it looks like I didn't. Er.

I'd be willing to be admin (or part of an admin group?) for this game if people want me to. I'd like to participate as a player too, though - but would refrain from doing so if people have objections to that. In that case, I'd lurk all teams, just as Peter said.

-Kylearan

It looks like GA is planning to admin and not play, so we're good in that area.

There is also a potential exposure with hosting and playing, since it's necessary for the host to have the admin pw to start the pitboss every time it needs to be restarted. It is not necessary to view the map though, so I think any trustworthy player can host.

:agree:

I'm hoping we can get DaveMcW to host. I sent him a PM asking.

Is there anyone else with the ability to host a PitBoss for a long period of time?

This looks rediculously interesting...

Lets see...my history...
I started playing Civilization Call to Power on linux and I loved it so much. I'd play it like crazy tho some of the mechanics were a little broken (lol wtf I can't refuel my plain so it dies in my capital city? xD) From there I moved on to Civilization 1, but I found it boring so I went back to Call to Power xD
Fast forward a few years...I start playing civ 3 immensely and loved everything about it. I upgraded all the way to C3C but lost it at a (sorry, a lil geeky here) computer club play in. Hey, a 5 year run ain't that bad lol.
A year and 2 track and field state qualifies later, I get Civ IV (around when it came out) and I loved it despite my old computer barely able to play it. During this time I had my first and only multiplayer game in which my fried got owned by the AI so I went to save him with my macemen (everyone else and him had axemen) but I was too late (at least deemed by me heheh) In the end, I won that game. That game was however in normal speed and I just distrust that speed because of how fast things get done, Marathon FTW. Anyways, I followed the series from there on. Played colonization as well but BTS triumphs for its more openness (especially the Rise of Mankind mod that I've been playing)
That's another thing, I've basically grown to mods since about a year into civ 4, so I may be a lil rusty with the core game mechanics. I've also found myself more of a builder as I prefer to get every building I could possibly get into every city leading to a lacking in military until I get to like Renaissance era (or industrial in some games) but recently I've been deviating from that by focusing on production. Still a little slow in early games and not truly multiplayer savy, I want to join this as this sounds like one of the best things I've come around since DnD lol

Welcome Domino369!
Hope you have a blast playing with us! :thumbsup:

Hey everyone, new around these parts and trying to get my feet wet by playing a game with you. I am mostly trying to take it all in right now -- not as many suggestions as I have questions, to be honest.

Very interested. If there's anything that needs to be done then let me know and I'll try to help!

I hope to post an updated checklist sometime soon so that we can clearly see what we need to accomplish and then figure out how it will get done. There isn't too much that needs to be done: primarily just a map and a server.

Ginger Ale, would you like me to organize the map setup efforts? With your approval, I would like to set up some polls in the individual team forums related to game and map settings. The general polls here provide some good ideas, but they're kind of... disorganized. And the sooner we get moving on this, the sooner we can get the game started. :)

:agree:

I know you (rightly) asked Ginger_Ale - but I just wanted to say that I 100% support you just taking over the whole map making process.

Thanks for jumping in Sulla! :hatsoff:

Don't we need to get a host? Shouldn't that be like #1 on the todo list?

Yes, I believe that's why GA listed a map and a server. :p

Sullla: Can I ask that you not do traditional forum-controlled polls? Typically you would post a question, and we would argue that for a bit before each of us reaching a decision, but if there's a poll in the first post then people tend to vote right away without waiting for the discussion. It should be easy enough to count the votes of 10-20 people manually. :)

Ginger Ale, would you like me to organize the map setup efforts? With your approval, I would like to set up some polls in the individual team forums related to game and map settings. The general polls here provide some good ideas, but they're kind of... disorganized. And the sooner we get moving on this, the sooner we can get the game started. :)

Please, go ahead. :goodjob: There's no reason we can't have map making going on at the same time as other discussion.

How do we plan to select our Civs/Civ Leaders? We don't want two FDRs in one game, do we?

Sullla: Can I ask that you not do traditional forum-controlled polls? Typically you would post a question, and we would argue that for a bit before each of us reaching a decision, but if there's a poll in the first post then people tend to vote right away without waiting for the discussion. It should be easy enough to count the votes of 10-20 people manually. :)

I agree completely - you pretty much read my mind. :) I actually hate forum polls, for all manner of reasons that I won't get into here. Deciding on the settings needs to be a TEAM decision, with discussion and bartering and arguing and all the rest, not simply the highest number on a straw poll.

Well, GA gave his approval, so I guess it's time to get to work...

How do we plan to select our Civs/Civ Leaders? We don't want two FDRs in one game, do we?
As far as I know we basically we flip a coin if we get a conflict. Loser gets their second choice.

There isn't really a problem with having 2 of the same leaders..

There's no technical problem, but it would be a lot less fun IMO.

I agree with Niklas...

Now, what is the public opinion on two different leaders, but same civ? (Ottomans, Persians, Mongols, etc...)

I was thinking about this too...I guess we just pick an alternate? I've never done this before...but I wouldn't want to tip my hand at selection until I was discovered in game.

In the Civ3 MTDG2, each team listed their top 5 choices in private. The admins and map maker then assigned the teams based on the wishes, with duplicates being randomly decided. I think this is the best way to go at it.

Viva Chingon brings up an interesting point. Do we want to keep choices hidden until contact? That would certainly spice up the early game a bit, and probably put a wrench in some strategies. I'm all for it. :mischief:

I don't mind two different leaders from the same civ being played, but I don't feel strongly about it.

Yes - absolutely keep the civ choices hidden! :please:

That worked really well for the civ3 game.

I don't think that is really possible in pitboss... You chose which leader to play when you log in...

Now that I think about it...I think you might be right, Oyzar. What a bummer. Maybe there's some clever way around this, but I don't think so...cause soon as the turn player logs in, as said before, all the leaders would be available for selection.

Does that also mean that anyone can connect to the game and start up as any of the other civs? So...could I just go log in as Team 2 and check their city defenses, for instance?

Not unless you had their pw...

I don't think that is really possible in pitboss... You chose which leader to play when you log in...
Would it be possible for the Map Maker / Admin to do this once for each team before the game gets started?

I can see that might waste the first turn, but if all the Admin does is log in, select the leader and does nothing else (or does the same thing for each team) that might be acceptable.

I like the thought of not knowing the opponents at the beginning, if technically possible, of course.

I am not too fond of having the same civ twice on the map, not to mention the same leader :nono: We should not start cloning people ;)

Me and oyzar did a test, and it is unfortunately not possible to hide which the other teams are. Unless we anonymize them with custom names and custom leaderheads. But I don't think we'll go through that trouble.

:agree: Nice idea - but not practical for PitBoss.

Now... about finding a host for this shindig.... :shifty:

Here are what I see as the remaining tasks:

Finding a host: This is one of the most important, obviously, but it's relatively straightfoward. I'm thinking about asking in the PitBoss forum to see if anyone is willing, unless someone here is able to host or knows another member that can. Any ideas?

Determining the game settings: This is currently underway and Sullla has set the deadline of Wednesday, November 19th. Here is what needs to be agreed upon:
- Huts: On/Off
- Events: On/Off
- Vassal States: On/Off
- Barbarians: None, Normal, or Raging
- Tech Trading: Normal, No Tech Trading, No Tech Brokering
- Difficulty Level: Low (Noble/Prince), Medium (Monarch/Emperor), High (Immortal/Deity)

Making the map: We already have a map maker, thanks to Sullla, so this is another pretty straightfoward step that can take place after November 19th, when teams have given their input on various map types.

Choosing civilizations and leaders: If you haven't already done so, teams should begin discussion of what leader they want to play as (I think Unrestricted Leaders will be OFF, so stick to normal combinations). Teams can also come up with custom nouns, adjectives, and the like. We need to decide whether duplicate leaders/civilizations should be allowed -- any thoughts?

Deciding upon team names: This is up to individual teams to do at their own pace: when you are ready, let me know via PM and I can have TF change the names of your forum and member group. This also needs to be finalized before the game can start, so that the map includes these changes.

Recruitment of more members: This never hurts, considering that the ranks inevitably dwindle as the game goes on. I will put up an announcement for the Civ4 forums when the game is really close to starting (i.e. a final date has been set for the launch).

Finalize a ruleset: There is already some good ruleset discussion underway, so we just need to iron out any complaints and hopefully get teams to agree to it (or, just let it pass, since a vast majority of users already approved it).

Password decisions: Pretty simple -- teams need to decide on a password for the game.

-------------

Missing anything? :hmm:

On hosting, earlier discussion mentioned DaveMcW.

I'm capable of hosting but sometimes keeping the game computer's connection going has been an issue. And I'll almost certainly have business trips and definitely will have vacations over the next 18-24 months, and it's not something I can leave up when I'm not here.

I've never seen anyone host from being asked in the pitboss forum so that seems rather useless, should make an anouncement here, maybe someone have a spare server lying around?

Also a password: it is largely useless as all civs will be pw protected anyways so noone not in the game can log into the game anyways. However it does take 2-5 seconds of your life every time you log in. While this doesn't seem like much it really does add up if you login say once per day for 2 years...

Civs/leaders:

I don't think duplicate leaders would be good, not sure about duplicate civs though...

No chance we could actually get Thunderfall to host the server somewhere on the CFC family of machines (mtdg.civfanatics.net?)? Presumably he wouldn't actually administer it himself, rather GA (and Sullla?) would handle that part. Feasible?

Given how unstable pitboss and civstats uploader is i seriously doubt that...

I am completely against duplicate leaders/civs.

Guys, please keep this thread related to Tasks that need to be completed for the game to start.

There is a separate thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=299226) for offering opinions on Duplicate leaders and civs.. Posting them here could mean they don't get counted where it matters ;)

Also a password: it is largely useless as all civs will be pw protected anyways so noone not in the game can log into the game anyways. However it does take 2-5 seconds of your life every time you log in. While this doesn't seem like much it really does add up if you login say once per day for 2 years...

There are three types of passwords for a pitboss game.

The game password opens up connection to the game. This is the one ozyar is saying is useless, and I agree. Some people use a multiple connections tool to choose a game and launch civ directly into that connection, and a game password gets in the way of that.

The admin password is used to launch the game into the pitboss engine. I've never tried to run a game without it. The admin can enter the game as any civ using the admin password. The host needs to have it too, since the pitboss server asks for it every time the server starts.

The individual civ passwords do the obvious...

No chance we could actually get Thunderfall to host the server somewhere on the CFC family of machines (mtdg.civfanatics.net?)? Presumably he wouldn't actually administer it himself, rather GA (and Sullla?) would handle that part. Feasible?
I know oyzar thinks this isn't realistic... but is there any comment from GA or Sulla?
Sounds like this could be a potential solution to me... but I have very limited experience with PitBoss.

@DaveShack - thanks for the rules clarifications!
I agree - there's no need for a universal game password.
Just 1 for each individual Civ (and 1 for the admin) will be plenty. :thumbsup:

I can serve as game admin (and would not object to doing so), but I cannot actually provide a server. I don't even own the server my website runs on, which is kindly hosted by a fan of my writing.

On hosting a Pitboss -- the only thing that is required if you have a normal :bts: installation is your game computer has a permanent internet connection.

My pitboss runs fine on a system with a P4 2.2Ghz and 1GB of RAM.

I am in favor of using a new mod that was created that limits intel on civilizations you have not met yet. Basically it does not allow you to see the score or graphs for unknown opponents...so you can't use those factors to help determine your path prematurely! The only issue is that it apparently does NOT work if there IS an admin password.

I am in favor of using a new mod that was created that limits intel on civilizations you have not met yet. Basically it does not allow you to see the score or graphs for unknown opponents...so you can't use those factors to help determine your path prematurely! The only issue is that it apparently does NOT work if there IS an admin password.

Part of the reason to play a diplo game is to be able to analyze every aspect of the game. Not having the graphs etc there would kinda remove this...

I don't think there's going to be much support here for playing with a mod. That means that every player will have to load the game in the mod before looking at the save...

Plus, the idea that the save isn't locked is a little disconcerting. :dunno:

Unless there's overwhelming support for switching this game to a mod, I'm not in favor of it.

Unless there's overwhelming support for switching this game to a mod, I'm not in favor of it.
I'm not in favour of using any kind of mod for this game.

I think the HOF mod is pretty cool. It fixes a lot of bugs and we won't play the game any differently. Plus, it gives you CivAlerts when something is about to happen, so it makes a pretty handy tool.

Hof mod is not possible to use for multiplayer though.

Hof mod is not possible to use for multiplayer though.
I don't think it would be too hard to change it so that you could, but I agree with the rest, I would definitely rather not use a mod.

I would suggest this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=299226) to be locked.

I'll just leave it to die, unless there's a more compelling reason to close it.

Map creation is finished! :D I will go about sending teams pictures of their starting positions shortly.

A few quick notes for the game host:

- The game is saved in Worldbuilder format. This was (by far) the easiest way for me to do the editing, and I have been told that PitBoss has no problems accepting Worldbuilder saves.

- The game is currently set to Noble difficulty. This was due to the fact that the AIs get various bonuses on higher difficulty levels, which we don't want. Game host, please make sure to set all five teams to Monarch difficulty when we start, as agreed upon here in the forums. :)

- Rather than fooling with team names, I've left the default ones. To rename all the important details, simply type Alt-D and fill in your team's preferences.

- Remember to come up with your team's password and send it to the game host! We'll need that before we can start too.

That should be everything, at least in theory. I'm really hoping I did this correctly, as I put a lot of time into crafting the map. You're going to enjoy this one, trust me. ;)

:clap:

Thanks, Sullla! It was great that you volunteered to do this map for us, and I'm sure we'll enjoy it ;)

Well done, and thanks for the map. How many hours do you reckon it took you? ;)

Thanks for the map creation.

Is there any way in which you can show us what the actual tile yields are? What I mean is that it might be difficult to tell whether a tile is grassland or plains especially if they have a resource on them or if they are on hills or forested.

Thanks for the map creation.

Is there any way in which you can show us what the actual tile yields are? What I mean is that it might be difficult to tell whether a tile is grassland or plains especially if they have a resource on them or if they are on hills or forested.
I'm guessing that turning on "show tile yields" and taking another series of screenshots would probably work. It's a minor issue though, so Sullla might not bother with it. ;)

Please,where can I get the save?
Best regards,

You can't get the save of course... First we need a host... You do know how sequential pitboss works right?

Team 1 has a name, we are now to be called Team Kazakhstan.

Team 4 will henceforth be known as Team Cavaleiros.

We have a map, we have a host (thanks DaveShack!), and now all we need is a starting date. I suggest that we send DaveShack the Worldbuilder save for the map, spend a day or two to make sure everything connects correctly, then get this game launched. Maybe pick Wednesday of next week (Dec. 3rd) to begin?

How does that sound?

Sounds fine to me. :thumbsup:

Wasn't the start date set to 30th of november? what is wrong with that date?

The fact that it'd be tomorrow, 1 team hasn't decided on a team name and who knows what else hasn't been decided by the teams.

I don't see why anyone would have to decide on a name before they play one turn...

Let's shoot for Wednesday - we don't want to have a problem with the start simply due to impatience - it would be awful to have a hitch that causes us to restart! ;)

Team 5 will have an official name by Monday, at the very latest :D

Wednesday works well for Team Saturn. Let's get this thing underway as soon as it's practical. :)

I was hoping to receive a pitboss save. My record for correctly launching games isn't the greatest. Like forgetting to set the difficulty level, or missing a setting checkbox. :rolleyes:

But I'll do my best with whatever the process is. :)

The hard part is setting the passwords. I don't especially want to know all civ's passwords, and some tests we did within Team 5 showed some difficulties with changing the password once set. Maybe we'll need to have the pw's set on first login like a normal pitboss.

The fact that it'd be tomorrow, 1 team hasn't decided on a team name and who knows what else hasn't been decided by the teams.

We must not tell you our name; we can start and then change the name, every turn, if that is our wish. This will not trouble you or the game.

I was hoping to receive a pitboss save. My record for correctly launching games isn't the greatest. Like forgetting to set the difficulty level, or missing a setting checkbox. :rolleyes:

But I'll do my best with whatever the process is. :)

The hard part is setting the passwords. I don't especially want to know all civ's passwords, and some tests we did within Team 5 showed some difficulties with changing the password once set. Maybe we'll need to have the pw's set on first login like a normal pitboss.

Perhaps when you get the game set up you can send me a message and I can log on for all the teams ahead of time to set their passwords?

I take it Sullla has sent you the save, or not yet?

DaveShack, I'll be happy to send you the starting Worldbuilder file, if you'll PM me with an email address. :)

Having Ginger_Ale do the first round of logins to set passwords sounds great.

Dave - after you set the game up, you can PM G_A with the IP, and then after the passwords are all set, the IP can be posted publicly. :thumbsup:

A goal of starting on the 3rd sounds good to me! Should be a good omen for team 3, right? ;)

The 3. day is a good day to begin, because it is blessed double.