Triangle Trade


Download (1.62 MB) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10978)

When complete, this mod will be a fairly large overhaul of Colonization. Right now I've only made a few changes, but I would like people to experiment with what I've created and let me know what doesn't work, what needs tweaking and rebalancing, and any ideas they might have for the future.

Current new features:

Selling Ships - You can now sail ships to Europe and sell them. The sale price is based on the base price and the cost of the yields needed to build it.
Loans - you can now take out loans from a "bank". Your debt increases each turn based on your interest rate. Debt negatively affects your game score, so you'll want to pay it off quickly and never let it accumulate. You can pay back a loan at any time in the same interface. Otherwise, the money will be taken out of your sale of goods and ships in Europe until you've paid off your debt.
Coastal Trader - Coastal Traders are small, cheap ships. They only require a Dock, they can only carry goods, they can't explore and they can't sail to Europe. They're essentially floating Wagon Trains.
Imperial Fleet - Your country's imperial fleet is now present on the map from the start of the game. The more colonies you have, the bigger the fleet and the more powerful the ships.
Closed Ports - The king now has the power to shut down your ports when you anger him. Closed ports cannot load or unload goods to ships but they can load and unload units. Goods can still be moved by Wagon Train.


Changes:

Wagon Trains are a little cheaper.
Goods are now grouped in popups by their classification for easy searching for the one you want.
Instead of boycotting your goods when you refuse a tax increase, the king will instead close the port in which the goods Party takes place. The port will be closed until the War of Independence during which no goods will be able to be unloaded and unloaded by ship.


Planned changes:


Africa Screen (In Progress) - In addition to sailing to Europe, your ships will also be able to sail to Africa. The Africa screen is more limited than the Europe screen. In Africa, you can sell goods, but the only "good" available for purchase are Slave Units. Africa is in demand for finished goods: Horses, Muskets, Rum, Cigars and Tools. They have little or no use for colonial raw materials.
Slave Units (In Progress) - Slave units consume -1 Food. In other words, a city that could only support 2 regular units will be able to support 3 Slaves. Slaves can also be traded in the Diplomacy Screen. The downside, however, is that they have a small chance of escaping and either joining a Native village or founding their own settlement.
Plantation System - Cash crops such as Cotton, Tobacco and Sugar are being removed from the map. The only way to grow these crops will be by building Plantation improvements that give these yields. This will allow the player to concentrate particular yields in particular cities so they don't have to have raw materials trickling in from several sources spread across the map to a processing or distribution center. Furs, Ore, Silver and Lumber will be left untouched.
Unit Trading - Some units can be traded in the Diplomacy Screen. These include Slaves, Cannon, Wagon Trains and Ships.
Smuggling - The imperial fleet will be prowling the sea looking for scofflaws who ignore trading laws. Two civics choices banning foreign-bought goods and Slaves will be enforced if they are adopted by the King. Transports carrying these have a chance of being caught and the cargo impounded. Other than that, goods purchased from foreign colonies will be subject to an import tax that the player will have to pay upon entering one of their ports or the player can try to bribe a customs official. If this fails, the cargo will be impounded.
Maroons - There will be a new civilization for escaped slaves called the Maroons. Their leader is Zumbi. Escaping slaves that have no Native village to flee to will found new settlements on the fringe of your colonies. They will be hostile and will harrass your colonies until you crush them.
Colonial Charter/Constitution (In Progress) - Civics won't just be for the WoI anymore. Your Constitution in the early game will be referred to as a Colonial Charter. You'll have a good degree of control over it, but the King will be able to revise your Colonial Charter when it suits him... this will come in the form of demands like the tax demands. There will also be civics categories available under the colonial charter that will not be available after independence and vise versa. Some civics will deal with your interactions with the King.
Naval Reform - There will be some changes to the navy. The map will now have Natural Harbors. Harbors, whether Natural or built, will be necessary to permit deep-draft vessels to enter coastal cities. You will also be unable to build the military-only vessels like Frigates and Ship of the Line while in the colonial period. Your home country's navy will handle your sea defense. I'm also planning to add Trade Winds that will speed up movement when sailing with the wind and slow down movement when sailing against it.
Natives & Training - Natives will be beefed up a bit. They'll have special promotions that make them invisible in Forests, Jungles and Marshes. Your units will also be able to acquire these promotions when they train with the Natives.

I can't wait to see the full list. I like the addition of loans.

Looks very cool. I will test it when it it's combinded with modpatch or AoD2.

It looks very cool, but when I tested the loans feature it resulted in a CTD.

Ooooo, downloading it now. :goodjob:

It looks very cool, but when I tested the loans feature it resulted in a CTD.

Hmmm... it's working for me. At what point did the CTD occur? When you pushed the button on the main interface? When you accepted the loan? Or at some other point?

Hmm, downloaded the mod, and it seems the changed SDK files seems to be missing from the download. Is there another link where I can get them?

Sorry. to clarify, the CTD occurs when I click the button on the main interface or use the keyboard shortcut (I tried both to be thorough). The only thing left for me to try is to make sure my CustomAssets folder is empty, as I know that sometimes that causes problems (I removed Blue Marble, I just need to make sure there's nothing left causing trouble).

EDIT: I can now confirm that CustomAssets is empty.

Nice idea, but will the AI use it? If not, it just makes the game even easier for the human player.

Nice!

Hmmm. Triangle trade - will you be implementing slaves from Africa?

Nice idea, but will the AI use it? If not, it just makes the game even easier for the human player.
Well, could the AI use it? Probably. Does it currently? No. But I will be adding a number of new components that will probably make the game more challenging for the player (hopefully without increasing the game's excessive micromanagement).

Nice!

Hmmm. Triangle trade - will you be implementing slaves from Africa?
An Africa screen and slave units is the largest new planned component, yes.

An Africa screen and slave units is the largest new planned component, yes.

This will be nothing short of awesome.

Make the Africans able to go to school and train as elder statesmen just like the Natives can and I don't think anyone will gripe that much.

Edit:
You're gonna need some slavery-related founding fathers to go with.

Suggestion:

Carreira das Indias and Manila Galleon ;)

Allready a great Mod. I like the coastal trader most and the grouped goods. :)

Do you plan to added any new Victory Conditions to the mod? Or any Civs or beef up the Natives?

You may consider these ideas... LINK (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7375442)

Do you plan to added any new Victory Conditions to the mod? Or any Civs or beef up the Natives?

You may consider these ideas... LINK (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7375442)
Victory Conditions: Yes, they all focus on independence, but they provide different modes for independence. Brazil bought it's independence from Portugal, so I think accumulating X amount of gold would be a good way to do this. Also, I think a peaceful transition through cooperation with the king would be a good option as well. So essentially it's a choice between a Military, Financial and Diplomatic victory.

Natives: I'm planning on merging by Civ4 Conqueror's Delight mod with this which will include promotions for invisibility that will allow units to be invisible only on certain terrain/features. So I may make some new promotions for natives that will make them invisible in forests, light forest and jungles. I've also included heal rate modifiers for terrains and features as well.

I'm also thinking about a Train with Natives option for military units that will work like the Live Among Natives command that will give you special promotions like the ones mentioned above.

How does "can't explore" feature work ?

How does "can't explore" feature work ?
This code is taken from Beyond the Sword. What it means is that when you move a unit, it checks to see if the tile you're moving to is adjacent to unexplored territory. If it is, you can't move to that tile because it would cause you to reveal the unexplored tile next to it.

In BtS, I think this is used to keep players from sending out Spies (which appear much earlier in BtS than in vanilla Civ4) as scouts that can't be attacked by Barbs and could move freely through rival territory. Here I use it to keep players from using Coastal Traders as anything other than cheap cargo ships.

Since they're the first ships you'll be able to build yourself, and because they're so cheap, it seemed that they could potentially be exploited to explore the map very early. Coastal Traders are only meant to remove the penalty of building on islands as opposed to on one large land mass.

Never seen that kind of behavior in BTS. (i am fairly sure i did use Spies as scouts there...). It would make a lot of sense on work boats (in Civ) too, that's why i ask :mischief:

Never seen that kind of behavior in BTS. (i am fairly sure i did use Spies as scouts there...). It would make a lot of sense on work boats (in Civ) too, that's why i ask :mischief:
:dunno:
The code is there. Don't know if it's actually used. I only remember pre-release that people thought Spies would be getting this penalty... But the code is there and it does work. So if you were looking to apply this to BtS, you need no help from me ;)

Thanks, i will look it up.

I've updated the list of completed and planned changes. I'm pushing fast and furious on the Africa screen and Slave unit right now.

Will the plantations need the resourse to be buildable? I hope so.

Will the plantations need the resourse to be buildable? I hope so.
I had not been planning on this. A few reasons... 1) Where would this yield be taken from? The city nearest the tile? There's no resource on the tile, so you can't get it from there. 2) Crops come from the seeds of these plants, but the resources you're selling are not the seeds. True, cotton could potentially have seeds in it. Sugar or Tobacco would not though. The seeds for these crops were not sufficiently hard to come by that it would be the limiting factor. I've got the cost for each Plantation at 100 gold, which I think adequately representing acquiring the seeds to grow the crops and other factors in setting up the production.

The real limiting factor I think would be knowledge. You need to have people who know how to cultivate that particular crop. Otherwise you've just got acres of dirt until next year.

Dom Pedro II,

Just to clarify... you will be taking away the resources, but the terrain yields (tobbaco, cotton, & sugar) will remain the same, correct?

For example if a tobbaco plantation grants a +2 tobbaco bonus, then a terrain that normally produces 3 tabbaco will produce 5 with the plantation, but one that normally produces 0 will produce 2? Or will you have it so that certain plantations can only be built on the corresponding terrain?

Thanks for your work and your answers. ;)

Dom Pedro II,

Just to clarify... you will be taking away the resources, but the terrain yields (tobbaco, cotton, & sugar) will remain the same, correct?

For example if a tobbaco plantation grants a +2 tobbaco bonus, then a terrain that normally produces 3 tabbaco will produce 5 with the plantation, but one that normally produces 0 will produce 2? Or will you have it so that certain plantations can only be built on the corresponding terrain?

Thanks for your work and your answers. ;)
That's about the size of it. I'm going to limit the locations to some degree. I'm thinking Sugar Plantations should be permissible on Marsh and Grassland, and Marsh should definitely produce more Sugar than Grassland. Tobacco, on the other hand, I would probably only allow on Plains and Grassland but not on Marsh.

That's about the size of it. I'm going to limit the locations to some degree. I'm thinking Sugar Plantations should be permissible on Marsh and Grassland, and Marsh should definitely produce more Sugar than Grassland. Tobacco, on the other hand, I would probably only allow on Plains and Grassland but not on Marsh.

Cool... sounds like it'll work out well to me. I'll definately keep an eye out on this mod ;)

PS: I'm working on a Portugal mod... Dom Pedro II is one of the leaders... feel free to stop on by and make suggestions for him ;)

Sounds very promising indeed Dom Pedro. Thanks a lot for developing this.

1.Colonial charters as early constitutions giving you some additional choices how to shape your colony...I was thinking along those lines as well.
Allow say 3 picks out of a list of options or have a list of choices between alternatives as in constitution? Any ideas in detail?
Religious tolerance and permission of slavery are obvious options. Permission to process raw materials efficiently ie. build distilleries or hire Tobacconists etc., produce tools or even arms, or trade with foreign nations could be others.

2.Alternative victory conditions thus no preparation for WoI from turn 1? I like that approach.

3. Are slaves going to be as productive as colonists on the fields or more?
An idea regarding slaves: if there are more slaves than colonists in a city they will revolt (and make it a Maroon city) unless there is a dragoon or soldier garrisoned (not just muskets stored).

4. Plantations. May I suggest higher yield on squares adjacent to rivers due to better irrigation and transport?

I had not been planning on this. A few reasons...

I guess that would be better :). A few follow up question on this though.

Making a farm costs 20 gold.
Making a road costs 20 gold.

Making a resourse will cost 100 gold.

Can you make a farm on a tile without a resourse?
Can you farm a tile without a farm?
Can you farm a tile without a resourse?
if so, what is the logic behing being able to get tabacco from a grass (wheet??) field?

Will you bring back some mineral/soil rich resourse from civ1-2, the shield tiles.

Can resourses be depelated? Can they spread?

I guess that would be better :). A few follow up question on this though.

Making a farm costs 20 gold.
Making a road costs 20 gold.

Making a resourse will cost 100 gold.

Can you make a farm on a tile without a resourse?
Can you farm a tile without a farm?
Can you farm a tile without a resourse?
if so, what is the logic behing being able to get tabacco from a grass (wheet??) field?

Will you bring back some mineral/soil rich resourse from civ1-2, the shield tiles.

Can resourses be depelated? Can they spread?

Alright.. I'm trying to follow the logic here...

First, regarding Farms. I'm leaving the regular Farms in the game as is. The only difference is that they will strictly be used to increase the Food output on a tile.

Second, I've got to explain a couple things so we're all on the same page. This game and Civ4 have Yields and Bonuses. In Civ4, Bonuses were often referred to "resources". In Colonization, Yields are referred to as "resources" or "goods". Bonuses in Colonization refer only to those few specific tiles that have the physical resources on them. Bonus tiles give extra of whatever yield they're related to.

But I assume you're probably referring to Plantations. Let's take a Cotton Plantation so we have a clear example. I'm removing both the Cotton Yields and the Cotton Bonuses from the map, so you don't need either to build the Plantation. You need 100 gold and the tile has to be Grass or Plains. The tile also has to be on a latitude less than a certain amount. I haven't solidified what that'll be exactly.

When you build a Plantation, it puts that Bonus on the tile. If you remove the Plantation, it removes the Bonus.

I wouldn't say that you're trying to get Tobacco or Cotton out of grass. Like I said, you're planting the crop and growing it there. To me, that's not only more realistic, but it makes things neater too. I hate having one city that happens to produce 2 or 3 of several different raw materials. I'd rather have cities dedicated to the production of one or two things.

As for Civ1/2 bonuses, you mean like the Peat Moss? I haven't thought about anything like that.

As for depleted resources, I've been thinking about having Silver and Gold (I want to add Gold to the map too) be depleted. I hadn't thought about spreading, but I don't really know why they would.

"Spreading Gold" might make sense in limited amount if you call it "Finding".
After depleting a mine there could be a somewhat limited chance to find more silver in a adjacent square by following the "vein"
Or someone might find a nugget in area that previously had no Gold causing a "rush".

A interesting twist could be not to let the player know how much gold there is.

Say: you find a nugget in indian land, you settle a mining town there, piss off the indians... And then find out that the mine only yielded a few turns worth of Gold...

Or: you find a nugget in indian land, you settle a mining town there, piss off the indians... And then find out that there is also Gold in the adjacent square, and lots of it, so the expansion there was worthwhile.

In any case the discovery could/should boost a minor population boost (only if the player claims the Bonus) so it is still worth some trouble to claim even if the Gold run out fast.

Sounds very promising indeed Dom Pedro. Thanks a lot for developing this.

1.Colonial charters as early constitutions giving you some additional choices how to shape your colony...I was thinking along those lines as well.
Allow say 3 picks out of a list of options or have a list of choices between alternatives as in constitution? Any ideas in detail?
Religious tolerance and permission of slavery are obvious options. Permission to process raw materials efficiently ie. build distilleries or hire Tobacconists etc., produce tools or even arms, or trade with foreign nations could be others.
Yes, trade with foreign nations will definitely be one. I was also thinking that the King could impose something like the Proclamation of 1763 and subsequent legislation that restricted expansion and Indian trading.

3. Are slaves going to be as productive as colonists on the fields or more?
An idea regarding slaves: if there are more slaves than colonists in a city they will revolt (and make it a Maroon city) unless there is a dragoon or soldier garrisoned (not just muskets stored).
I had been planning on less food requirements rather than better yield production. That way you can support more of them while putting less of a burden on your food supply.

Slaves will definitely escape. Slave revolts are iffy, but I'm thinking about how they might work.

4. Plantations. May I suggest higher yield on squares adjacent to rivers due to better irrigation and transport?
Yeah, I'm probably going to do that.

Hello,

Just to say that I very like your first changes and the others ideas you plan to make.

I have'nt tested your first version yet, but I will keep an eye on your work.

A few comments about your projects, on a nutshell :
- Africa screen : sounds excellent. I think african cities should not give that gold for refined products, excepts perhaps for merchandises ; else, it would be too easy to rely only on african for trading and thus not being affected by taxes and boycott. Buying slaves should remain main activity of african screen.
- Slaves : like the idea of slaves requiring less foods ; but as it is already a great advantages, I think they should be "just correct" for raw production and bad for all other tasks.
- Plantations : I don't understand exactly imagine how it will work, but why not.
- Colonial charter : excellent idea too. One of the choice could be : will the colony will be directly managed by the crown or by some private company with royal charter? For example, new-France was managed initially by a private company then directly integrated in royal domains.
- About natives : it would be great to be able to include some of them in your army, when having good relations with them ; perhaps just temporary, during a war, an allied indian leader may offer you the help of X experienced indian units during X turns.

Some thoughts on Slaves,

Slaves would initialy be a high efficiency production method, cost would be modest with output thats on part with what citizens produce. This makes it advantageous to purchase slaves over recruiting European imigrants.

But as time passes the advantage drops, one method to drop efficiency would be that slaves do not receive the Liberty bonus modifier to their production, this would tend to naturally create a decrease in the efficiency of Slavery as cities become more urban and reach high liberty levels. This would reflect the North/South economic model as Slavery dwindled and disappeared in the North. How slaves factor into the liberty percentage also needs to be considered.

The main driver of Slave revolts would be Slave/non-Slave ratio, the higher the ratio the higher the per turn probability of revolt. Once in a state of revolt the effect is very similar to the BTS slave revolt event, all production halts and in addition stores may be destroyed and colonists killed. The revolt may end of its own accord or external military suppression may be applied at the cost of reducing the slave population. Each turn a city is in revolt their is a possibility of an Uprising which is basically what happened in Hati, all non-slaves are eliminated and city flips control.

A few comments about your projects, on a nutshell :
- Africa screen : sounds excellent. I think african cities should not give that gold for refined products, excepts perhaps for merchandises ; else, it would be too easy to rely only on african for trading and thus not being affected by taxes and boycott. Buying slaves should remain main activity of african screen.
This is a very good point and one that I've been mulling over. While Africa had vast quantities of gold to trade with, it might be best to use the barter system in the Africa screen. So, instead of gold, you'd have trade points. Sell the goods in Africa for trade points, and slaves would have a trade point value.

- Slaves : like the idea of slaves requiring less foods ; but as it is already a great advantages, I think they should be "just correct" for raw production and bad for all other tasks.
Yes, that's my thought too. I've considered actually blocking them from doing certain tasks... in particular, I was thinking preventing them from being able to take certain professions. In particular, I was thinking of blocking them from some of the building jobs, water tiles, lumberjack and trapper.

- Plantations : I don't understand exactly imagine how it will work, but why not.
I'll post a screenshot since most people don't seem to quite be on my wavelength with this feature :)

- Colonial charter : excellent idea too. One of the choice could be : will the colony will be directly managed by the crown or by some private company with royal charter? For example, new-France was managed initially by a private company then directly integrated in royal domains.
That's true. Although I kind of think of the player as being the head of some joint-stock company running the colony. So such a civic would really reflect the nature of your government I think in the same way that Civ4 gave you a choice between Hereditary Rule, Representation, etc.

;7388603']Some thoughts on Slaves,

Slaves would initialy be a high efficiency production method, cost would be modest with output thats on part with what citizens produce. This makes it advantageous to purchase slaves over recruiting European imigrants.

But as time passes the advantage drops, one method to drop efficiency would be that slaves do not receive the Liberty bonus modifier to their production, this would tend to naturally create a decrease in the efficiency of Slavery as cities become more urban and reach high liberty levels. This would reflect the North/South economic model as Slavery dwindled and disappeared in the North. How slaves factor into the liberty percentage also needs to be considered.
I was actually thinking that slaves would not be counted into the population. So if you had a city size 10 with half free half slave, you're rebel sentiment would be based on the 5 non-slave citizens.

The main driver of Slave revolts would be Slave/non-Slave ratio, the higher the ratio the higher the per turn probability of revolt. Once in a state of revolt the effect is very similar to the BTS slave revolt event, all production halts and in addition stores may be destroyed and colonists killed. The revolt may end of its own accord or external military suppression may be applied at the cost of reducing the slave population. Each turn a city is in revolt their is a possibility of an Uprising which is basically what happened in Hati, all non-slaves are eliminated and city flips control.
I would say that the troop presence in the city should also make a difference too. Garrisoned troops should reduce the chance of revolt moreso than more non-Slave citizens.

Right now though, I'm simply working on the mechanic for escaping slaves.

There will be a new civilization for escaped slaves called the Maroons. Their leader is Zumbi. Escaping slaves that have no Native village to flee to will found new settlements on the fringe of your colonies. They will be hostile and will harrass your colonies until you crush them.

Why would the Marrons harrass your colony? Would you not think they would want to go in hiding and just arm theirselves to prevent from being enslaved again? I mean why would they want to attack a colony out of revenge? I would think it would be better they act just like some Natives in a lot of ways. Just my opinion though.

You may have a point johnny smith regarding maroon attacks out of sheer revenge.
However, as long as your colony still has slaves they may have the very good reason to liberate relatives or friends. Supply with arms, ammunition and other stuff that they may not be able to produce themselves could also provide good reasons.

Regarding slaves and liberty bells I think the Impaler made a good point.

Regarding Colonial Charter:
I like the idea of player as a head of a colonial company. I would however see it dependant on the nature of the charter whether that be a kind of stock company (commercial) or religious community (thinking of pilgrims).
I also wonder whether the charter should be a set of alternative decisions as in the constitution or whether it should be a more open list of privileges where you start with say 2 privileges and can acquire additional ones in the course of time. These could include manufacturing finished products, building factories, producing arms and cannon.

Why would the Marrons harrass your colony? Would you not think they would want to go in hiding and just arm theirselves to prevent from being enslaved again? I mean why would they want to attack a colony out of revenge? I would think it would be better they act just like some Natives in a lot of ways. Just my opinion though.
Ok... let me rephrase.. they will be hostile and right on your border. So they may not attack you, but they'll hinder any expansion or exploration in that direction until you've rid yourself of them.

Aggression is easily moddable. We see what works.


Regarding Colonial Charter:
I like the idea of player as a head of a colonial company. I would however see it dependant on the nature of the charter whether that be a kind of stock company (commercial) or religious community (thinking of pilgrims).
I also wonder whether the charter should be a set of alternative decisions as in the constitution or whether it should be a more open list of privileges where you start with say 2 privileges and can acquire additional ones in the course of time. These could include manufacturing finished products, building factories, producing arms and cannon.
Well, priveleges, as opposed to a set of binary options, strikes me more as Founding Fathers/technologies type game mechanics.

However, since I want to make civics categories that only apply under the colonial system and others that only apply after independence, and possibly some that only concern the monarchs, it could be possible to have categories that need to be unlocked... although i suppose there's not really a difference between that option and what they did in Civ4 where you have a set of default civics with no effects.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Revolution

Well I just think of Haiti sort of in this case. I mean after a certain amount of time. I would think a Slave city should stop harassing your colonies like the Natives forgetting that you their stole land. And at that point they trade with you. Don't know how long.

Or maybe a better way would be to decide which foreign civs you are trading with and having something linked to your civic choice to decide if you would able to trade with former slaves or not.

I mean for example look at Haiti is what I am thinking. But it may just be a horrible idea.

Here's a screenshot of the Slave pedia:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/screenshot10_EWi.jpg

Notice that the City produces 3 Food and the extra food is none and you've got two citizens, a regular citizen and a Slave that consumes -1 Food:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/screenshot12_Hd5.jpg

This is the purchasing popup in the Africa screen:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/screenshot11_2Ze.jpg

Looks good.:)

Looks excellent.

Finally, slaves will be allowed to become stateman, preacher, etc... ? No tasks will be forbidden (stateman slave sounds strange)?

I like very much the idea of bartner instead of trading in Africa (merchandises/rhum/weapons... in exchange of slaves), but it would be probably quite difficult to implement.

IT looks Awesome. Thanks for the work.

Finally, slaves will be allowed to become stateman, preacher, etc... ? No tasks will be forbidden (stateman slave sounds strange)?
I'm going to also add new code blocking slaves from becoming statesmen and preachers.

I like very much the idea of bartner instead of trading in Africa (merchandises/rhum/weapons... in exchange of slaves), but it would be probably quite difficult to implement.
Actually, it would be fairly simple.

An idea for the DoI could be that with the All Men are Free option, all Slaves become normal units(and hence can be drafted into the army), or with Slavery, they remain as Slaves. You could also make slaves cost less money then normal units. In addition, with All Men are Free, Converted Natives should be turned into normal colonists as well.

Hi All,

I haven't read all the posts. My apologies if i repeat an already made question.

Will you add a system where Slaves can revolt ? Or simply flee away ?
A good thing can be a system that compare the number of "soldiers" to the number of "slaves". A ratio between these two "units" would give the chance of revolt or slave escape. It doesn't have to be devastating, but just annoying enough to force the players to take care of the number of slaves in a city.

Take your time to make your mod, it seems very interesting and promising.

Hian the Frog.

I just wanted to say I am realy looking forward next release :).

I'm planning to release at the end of the week. It's been a busy few days and I've been distracted with other things. The next release will be chock full of new goodies including Colonial Charters, Africa Screen, Slaves, home country fleets and port closings. There will be a couple other miscellaneous items.

Your like a modding machine gun. :cool: :band:

[U][SIZE=6]
Natives & Training - Natives will be beefed up a bit. They'll have special promotions that make them invisible in Forests, Jungles and Marshes. Your units will also be able to acquire these promotions when they train with the Natives.
[/LIST]

maybe add a hidden nationality (like privateer) land unit for the natives so they can do small raids without war declared

maybe add a hidden nationality (like privateer) land unit for the natives so they can do small raids without war declared

I am working on this, the main problem is that they appear to be a bit passive. I have used the AI from the privateer which probably it is not a good idea. But it is fun to see messages saying "the enemy is close to x" and you see a brave with hidden nationality roaming your colonies.

I think too it is an interesting idea. It should be easy to implement it but the question (as always) would be : how the IA will use it?

It would be quite close to original Colonization actually, where sometimes there were "indians raid" althought you were in peace (but with bad relations) with them.

The AI would need to be limited in how it used this. I would say that they should only attack those they have bad standings with, and the chance they will attack at all should be maybe half or less. Because I could see the player getting spammed by these units without some kind of check.

Well, leaving them with the same AI as the privateer made them pretty passive. Most of them went to their respective nations villages, maybe because if was the beginning of the game and they didn't have any defenders.

I will have to test it more but they didn't appear to be very aggressive.

Any news for this project?

A good example of different approaches to slavery was what happened in South Carolina. There were basically two ways to organize slave labor:
1. Gangs
2. Tasks
Gangs were formed to make work more efficient but required supervisors. Also 'playing dumb' and other forms of obstruction were common. In gang labor slave comunities mutiny was more likely to happen, especially if the slaves were brought directly from Africa (some of them were wariors prior to being enslaved; the slaves fro West Indies, e.g. Barbados, were much less belligerent, and the length of slaves presence in the colony should be a appeasing factor). You might think of introducing a new 'profession' - slave overseer (and possibly some building to put them in), and it would require, say' one overseer per three slaves. This would increase slave productivity, but it would bind some free population that could be used elsewhere. Another drawback could be a negative impact of gang slave labor on liberty bells.
Task oriented labor meant that slaves are free to do their own things once they complete the task, and no overseers are required. Productivity might be lower, but there was no obstruction (which may recur randomly in gang labor system by lowering productivity of some building/lower yield etc. for a few turns), no free population is kept busy, and there was considerably less tension among slaves. However, it was easier for slaves to run away in such conditions, as well.
As far as keeping slaves under control, there were militias of gentry whose only purpose was to seek runaway slaves, and this job could also be required to limit/prevent slaves escaping (and bind free population).
It is not true that slaves were limited to farming jobs only, and they did them inefficiently. In the North, the largest slave populations were concentrated near ironworks and other heavy industries. In the South, the slaves were expert in lake and river fishing, and they were indispensable when growing rice (I wonder why this crop is not in the game, being a real cash cow for the early South Carolininan farmers, and it grew fantastically on swamps) because they had experience from Africa, and they were (mostly) much more immune to malaria than Europeans (sickle-cell disease that worked like a vaccine).
I realize these ideas might be somewhat complex and hard to implement in the game, but I guess the need of more complexity is behind this mod.
Anyway, even now, I am greatly impressed with your job.

It seems to me that if you have slaves in the game, you must have slave revolts.

There are a number of ways that this could be implemented, but I like the suggestion of making it a ratio of military to slaves per colony:

OK a quick idea --

Anti -revolt factors / revolt factors

Anti revolt factors --
min(number of guns /75) ,number of non slave, non servant, non criminal colonists) using holdenhk's idea of armed gentry
+ number of expert statesmen (good leaders give promise of future)
+ number of military units in city * 2 (military units are key)
+ number of scouts in city (scout units do not have much use after exploration phase, and scouts are good at pursuing runaways)

Revolt factors
number of slaves producing LB (player's choice, is a risky move)
+ number of slaves producing crosses (player's choice, is a risky move)
+ number of slaves * colony rebelliousness percent
+ number of indentured servants * colony rebelliousness percent
+ number of sugar squares under cultivation (sugar cultivation is very hard)
If another Leader revolts, and frees slaves, double colony rebelliousness percent (same idea as Emancipation effect in CIV 4)

A note on permitting slave to produce LB and crosses -- upthread -- it was mentioned that it should be prohibited -- I think let people do it, just reflect the possible costs. I am intentionally double counting LB and cross producers on the revolt side.

If ratio of revolt factors / Anti-revolt factors > 1 then
-1 to production of slaves
If ratio of revolt factors / Anti-revolt factors > 2 then
production of slaves is zero
If ratio of revolt factors / Anti -revolt factors > 3 then
city goes into slave revolt
-- all non slave, non indentured servants flee city, become external colonists.
-- 1/2 of guns and horses are available for creation of soldiers and scouts in the gentry (non indentured and non criminal colonists).
-- All slaves become soldiers and are at war

This idea should not require a Slave civilization, but it could.

check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_revolt#South_America_and_Caribbean
for other ideas

Ah -- I noticed that Dom P plans a Slave Society. That is great!

Maroons - There will be a new civilization for escaped slaves called the Maroons. Their leader is Zumbi. Escaping slaves that have no Native village to flee to will found new settlements on the fringe of your colonies. They will be hostile and will harrass your colonies until you crush them

Sorry -- I did not do all the research I could have.
That being the case, then a city going into slave revolt would join the Maroon civilization, in addition to the other effects.

Dom Pedro II - are you gone?

This is one hell of a mod Dom Pedro. I have a question though...

I love your idea of the coastal trader. How would I pull that little unit out of your mod and add it to the base game files?

I see it's listing in unitinfos, and I'm pretty sure I just can't copy it out of there and paste it in to another unitinfos xml file.

*update*

So apparently I AM smart enough to figure out how to get the unit in to the game. However, I'm now at the point where I define that the Unit can not sail to Europe or explore unexplored Areas. Now, I believe that involves editing the CvGameCoreDLL.dll. Am I right? And if so, what can I use to edit it?

Thanks.

This is one hell of a mod Dom Pedro. I have a question though...

I love your idea of the coastal trader. How would I pull that little unit out of your mod and add it to the base game files?

I see it's listing in unitinfos, and I'm pretty sure I just can't copy it out of there and paste it in to another unitinfos xml file.

You can do that, but you need to grab the art files as well.

So apparently I AM smart enough to figure out how to get the unit in to the game. However, I'm now at the point where I define that the Unit can not sail to Europe or explore unexplored Areas. Now, I believe that involves editing the CvGameCoreDLL.dll. Am I right? And if so, what can I use to edit it?

Thanks.

i thought the xml line has one for Europe :dunno:

Dom has this info in the CIV4UnitSchema.xml:

<!-- TRIANGLETRADE 10/15/08 by DPII -->
<ElementType name="bNoCrossOcean" content="textOnly" dt:type="boolean"/>
<ElementType name="bNoRevealMap" content="textOnly" dt:type="boolean"/>
<!-- -->

This adds elements to each Unit. For the Coastal Transport Unit, I have each of these values set to 1, which is the default from Dom's mod.


This is how it looks in the UnitInfos XML:

<bNoCrossOcean>1</bNoCrossOcean>
<bNoRevealMap>1</bNoRevealMap>


I checked what Dom has set for all of the other Ships that can travel to Europe, and he doesn't even have these tags as options for those Units.

I need to somehow tell the game how these two ElementTypes work...but I have no Idea where to do that.

Need the source code DP2! :)

From "Dom Pedro II"s profile, he logged in yesterday. So still hope for the source code.

I currently just have them disabled. I feel like I'm cheating as my little cheap boats sail to Europe full of goods to sell while they're set to do auto trade routes.

Plus...it doesn't look like the Computer AI is building many of these things. In fact, I don't think the computer AI emphasized building ANYTHING... Why is that?

You may have a point johnny smith regarding maroon attacks out of sheer revenge.
However, as long as your colony still has slaves they may have the very good reason to liberate relatives or friends. Supply with arms, ammunition and other stuff that they may not be able to produce themselves could also provide good reasons.

I'm presently reading a book about Francis Drake.

The escaped slaves tended to hate the Spanish for the rest of their lives. While they readily adapted to the south american jungle and were largely self-sufficient, they were interested in iron for making arrowheads and tools, and would attack the spanish villages on occaision just to get it.

They would also attack the mule trains carrying gold, kill the spanish and throw the gold in the river or burry it there.

From "Dom Pedro II"s profile, he logged in yesterday. So still hope for the source code.

Well he hasnt logged in again yet :(
Has anyone thought to email him :p

Can Saved Games used this mod?

Dom Pedro II was logged in 23rd of dec. Still no reply.

Maybe if everyone gets in a circle and does a big Dom Pedro II Summoning Dance, it will make him appear. :P :band:

He's gone. Poof in the wind.

Maybe something happened with his family or something outside the computer world :(

[U]
Maroons - There will be a new civilization for escaped slaves called the Maroons. Their leader is Zumbi. Escaping slaves that have no Native village to flee to will found new settlements on the fringe of your colonies. They will be hostile and will harrass your colonies until you crush them.


Thought on the maroons---why not make them convertible by a religion? And have them produce units if your civ makes peace with them?

Great ideas!!!

Dom Pedro II is active in Civ4 again (Better AI). Hopefully he will come here too.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=315240

I've just pm'ed for code.

Did you get any response?

Bring back this great mod!

Not sure if its too late to post this here since the mod is old but how do you install this mod?

I have two folders - Triangle Trade - SDK Files which in the folder i have know idea how to install?

Not sure if its too late to post this here since the mod is old but how do you install this mod?

I have two folders - Triangle Trade - SDK Files which in the folder i have know idea how to install?

You really didn't need to start a new thread asking the same question in the main Col C&C forum.

To answer your question:

1. To install a mod, you copy the mod folder into your Program Files\2K Games\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization IV Colonization\Mods directory.

This path will vary depending on whether you installed Colonization via Civ 4 Complete or Steam. Search for "Colonization.exe" on your computer.

If you've never installed a mod before, there will be no Mods folder in this directory. So create one. (Firaxis didn't bother, since there were no mods included with Colonization).

2. The mod folder, in this case, is "Triangle Trade". This is what you copy.

3. The SDK Files folder is irrelevant in your case. It contains the source files Dom Pedro II modified when he compiled Triangle Trade's DLL (a file called CvGameCoreDLL.dll). They are not required for the game to run.

Normally this folder is included inside the mod directory and so normally you don't have to worry about it.

4. All this is irrelevant if you have the 1.01 patch for Colonization installed. Because this mod contains a new DLL, and because mods with new DLLs created before the patch will not run once you have installed the patch, if you have the patch installed, you cannot run this mod.

Sorry for the double post but the last post in this thread was in Nov of 2009 so I assumed there might not be anyone around to answer my question and posted on the main mod forum to make sure of its success.

Anyway, I do have the patch 1.01 installed. I also knew how to install mods as you described but didn't know what I was suppose to do with the SDK files since I have never seen them outside any mod folder? That was my main question. But that really sux since the mod looked extemely cool with slave trade.

Do you know if the author plans to update Triangle Trade Mod? - I assume not since its been a couple of years since release.

If not do you know of any other mod with slave trade or the taking there of (similar to this mod) that is updated to work with the 1.01 patch?

One last question, I installed the Land of our Father v1.4 along with this mod but it would crash when I loaded the mod. Is that the case with Land of our Father v1.4 not working either?

Thank you for your time.

Sorry for the double post but the last post in this thread was in Nov of 2009 so I assumed there might not be anyone around to answer my question and posted on the main mod forum to make sure of its success.

Anyway, I do have the patch 1.01 installed. I also knew how to install mods as you described but didn't know what I was suppose to do with the SDK files since I have never seen them outside any mod folder? That was my main question. But that really sux since the mod looked extemely cool with slave trade.

Do you know if the author plans to update Triangle Trade Mod? - I assume not since its been a couple of years since release.

If not do you know of any other mod with slave trade or the taking there of (similar to this mod) that is updated to work with the 1.01 patch?

One last question, I installed the Land of our Father v1.4 along with this mod but it would crash when I loaded the mod. Is that the case with Land of our Father v1.4 not working either?

Thank you for your time.

The Slavery Market (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=361561) modcomp by KJ Jansson is based off of Triangle Trade and works with the patch.

In general, anything will work with the patch if it's been released after March 2009, which was when the patch was released. Anything before then, you will need to see if it replaces the CvGameCoreDLL file. You can do this by opening up the Assets directory insdide the mod folder.

Land of our Fathers is another mod with a DLL replacement, and so will not work with the patch.

Looks awsome, can't wait untill the arfica screan is done. But could you add a finished good for silver? (Perferably silverware or jewlary) Also please add the related buildings and proffesions. Thanks, can't wait!:D