Since I'm celebrating two wonderful years on CFC, I thought I'd do one of those ALC things. :D

I'm sure most of you know the drill by now, but here's how it's going to work:

1) I'll post a save, some screenies, and a load of rambling nonsense about what I've done/what I intend to do.

2) You'll respond by telling me how moronic my strategy and micromanagement are, whilst making some devastatingly brilliant suggestions for the next round.

3) I'll totally ignore what you've said, make a complete hash of things, and get conquered by Gandhi in 250bc.

For the sake of doing something different, I decided to play with both Unrestricted Leaders and Random Personalities. To keep with the 'lucky dip' theme, I went for RandomScriptMap with randomised Sea Level and Climate.

Here are the settings:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

Our leader and civ:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg

And the start:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

So, what should I do?

Settle in place and irrigate the corn for a powerful 6 food tile. Then mining/fishing. Up to you after that. I like early archers, but most people would want BW first and only archers after that.

So, what should I do?

Having already established for your audience the initial data available, you should then follow with your own analysis of the circumstances, and the short term plan that this suggests to you.

settle on the clam and research rifling.

Having already established for your audience the initial data available, you should then follow with your own analysis of the circumstances, and the short term plan that this suggests to you.

:lol: Trust you to make me think for myself.

My first thought is to move the warrior 1S and see how things look. Taking the settler 1SE might be the best move, although I'm worried that it may block subsequent cities.

As for a short-term plan, I'm thinking Worker first, while researching Mining.

I would actually move 1 se then settle. You stay coastal, keep all the current resources in your BFC as well as the fresg water bonus. normally i settle in place no matter what, but in this case you can trade resourceless water tiles for potentially resourceful (is that a word?) land tiles. Unless there's deserts or peaks to the south in which case you should ignore me completely...

settle on the clam and research rifling.

:lol:

I was about to post something like this... nice one Pete

@Winston: good luck with your game ;)

Cheers,

Rakolnikov

Move warrior 1S and see if you got lucky. Is that desert to the SW or floodplain? If it's to, maybe move settler 1E, 1 SE for a super commerce cap. I guess you lose coastal, but hey, that's what a second city's for.

Moving settler 1SE looks best, more land tiles and fresh water.

1SE would give desert instead of water tiles, not exactly better... Settle in place, worker first tech mining -> bw. BTW lock modified assets means ALOT of people will not be able to look at the save etc.. not a good idea i think...

BTW lock modified assets means ALOT of people will not be able to look at the save etc.. not a good idea i think...

I had no idea about that. Who won't be able to access it? And is there any way to disable it once it's on?

I didn't even mean to have it ticked, it was just left on from my previous game. :hammer2:

Settle in place;build water boat;research mining.
Best regards,

I'd move the warrior 1N to to see if there's any seafood there, which would be hard to work if you settle in place. Stuff south of the gold can be worked by other cities if the capital can't reach them.

Research mining, build a boat.

Move the warrior south onto the gold hill.

If you settle in place you have 12 non-financial ocean tiles. If you settle SE on the forest you roughly get 5 extra grasslands (ripe for cottages) and a desert, plus the +2 health bonus, for the cost of 6 ocean tiles.

But 1st move the warrior S.

p.s. first post

Welcome to the forums, civuminati. [party]

Welcome to the forums, civuminati. [party]

Thanks Winston Hughes.

Glad to be part of the fun.:king:

I had no idea about that. Who won't be able to access it? And is there any way to disable it once it's on?

I didn't even mean to have it ticked, it was just left on from my previous game. :hammer2:

Anyone who have any different files than you... Meaning anyone who have modified anything or anyone with one of the thousands of bugs that causes different assets for no apparent reasons(read vista users). Of course if you have modified anything from the standard game probably noone would be able to open it...

1SE would give desert instead of water tiles, not exactly better... Settle in place, worker first tech mining -> bw. BTW lock modified assets means ALOT of people will not be able to look at the save etc.. not a good idea i think...

You gain at least 2 grasslands (actually I think 3), and have 1, at most 2 desert tiles. Reduce non-island maintenance, gain fresh water, lose a forest (and a potential farm I guess).

Don't go workboat first. Clams is 4 food, corn is 6. Sure you can build a lighthouse, but do you really want to spend 60 hammers for your one seafood early?

Anyone who have any different files than you... Meaning anyone who have modified anything or anyone with one of the thousands of bugs that causes different assets for no apparent reasons(read vista users). Of course if you have modified anything from the standard game probably noone would be able to open it...

So this means that only people with BUGmod (and nothing else) can open the save, and even they might not be able to?

Damn. I managed to screw this up without even playing a single turn. :cry:

Oh well, I'll just have to do extra-detailed reports to compensate.

settle on corn, it wont be irrigated anyway since youre surronded by ocean.

thats a nice start, settle where you like, either option looks good to me.
build a worker first then a work boat.

EDIT: isn't the corn next to a freshwater lake? so is irrigated as soon as you farm it?

I chose to move the warrior south, and look what I found:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg

:yumyum: I don't often pay attention to the blue circles, but that one looks very well placed to me. Coastal but plenty of land, with fresh water, gold, corn, clams, plus at least three hills and four floodplains! Lucky dip indeed.

The question is, does anyone disagree that that's the place to settle?

Hi Winston,

Me :)...

seriously your city will not be size 20 before a long time so why not settle in place and make your second city on the desert hill... this way you will be working more good tiles sooner... :)

Cheers,

Raskolnikov

Hi Winston,

Me :)...

seriously your city will not be size 20 before a long time so why not settle in place and make your second city on the desert hill... this way you will be working more good tiles sooner... :)

Cheers,

Raskolnikov

Settling on the blue circle only loses one turn.

@Vicawoo: I was not refering to that ;)

But more to the fact that putting 20 awesome tiles in one BFC is not always better than splitting them between cities because in early game you have low happy cap and so low pop...

Sorry if it was not clear... :)

Anyways, the starting area + a nice leader will make this game a success either way I am sure.

Cheers,

Raskolnikov

I still kind of like SE and then tilesharing to work the floods with a 2nd city but you can pick anything and do well.

I say settle in place and build a second city near the floodplains.

On a side note ... Justinian of The Netherlands .. hmm. You are Spi and Imp and you have East Indiaman and Dikes. Interesting combo!!

I personally like the idea of moving to the blue circle. Do we have any idea how big the land mass will be? Super capitals are fun, cottaged floodplains and gold make for a great bureaucracy site. And there isn't any pressing need to share the wealth unless we assume the rest of the continent will be small or terrible.

I say settle SE as well, you can share the floodplains with a 2nd city. Don't know about the desert hill though.

I suggest settling SE as you don't know on what kind of landmass you are on. So it's better to avoid risking taking all the land with your capital if you happen to start on a small island.

I would have settled 1SE even if it were two desert tiles instead of flood plains, not doing so now would be madness.

Edit: Well actually an argument can be made for moving even closer to the FPS, but in place? yuck..

settle on corn, it wont be irrigated anyway since youre surronded by ocean.

It looks like it will be irrigated by a lake, but none the less, I like this idea.

Still Costal, but less tiles in the water
More hills for Production
Floodplains for Cottages if you go that route
Immediately reap benefits of the Corn

Ship It.

Sarge:gp:

Settling on corn and just give up 3 food not counting plains->grassland for another food lost is probably the worst thing he could do.

Settling on corn and just give up 3 food not counting plains->grassland for another food lost is probably the worst thing he could do.


Don't we get the terrain improvement on the Corn when we settle, so we are not losing the corn at all.

Research Mining, mine the gold, you've got food, production, and extra commerce.

What am i missing?

Sarge:gp:

Settle on Blue circle.

Irrigated Corn+gold hill+clams+fresh water+Dike+ (? 7 flood plains)

This will be a Monster science capital and it will contribute 50-100% of your empire research well into the Industrial Era.

And you can use it as an early GP farm, now go find Marble and build GL in it...

Settle in place. Enough good resourse locations and tiles to last you for few thousand years. Probably strategic reason 1n of current spot. Also a great city late game with Dike. I would probably build Moai Statues here.

1SE loses a turn and a chop.

the blue circle hogs alot of tiles that may need to be split on a small island.

The flood plain city can be settle next and the capital can be moved there if desired at buercracy era.

Don't we get the terrain improvement on the Corn when we settle, so we are not losing the corn at all.

Research Mining, mine the gold, you've got food, production, and extra commerce.

What am i missing?

Sarge:gp:

If you settle on the corn the capital gives 3F1H1C so 1 food extra. Irrigating and working the corn OTOH is 6 food, so you lose 3 food, not counting the lost food from settling on the plains tile (2food capital instead of 1food from working it).

Don't we get the terrain improvement on the Corn when we settle, so we are not losing the corn at all.

No - dropping a city (or a fort) on a resource will connect the resource for you (once you have discovered the appropriate technologies), but it doesn't give you the extra yield you would get from an improved resource.

In other words, you don't lose the corn, but you do lose the +3F (later +4F) that a worked farm would give you.

A pretty safe rule is to never ever settle on food resources. You'd need a pretty strong reason to ever do so.

A pretty safe rule is to never ever settle on food resources. You'd need a pretty strong reason to ever do so.

I sometimes settle on food resources that would only yield 4 food. Rice that is costly or impossible to irrigate or would give you the best spot very early in the game, bananas unless Calendar is close, but generally speaking yes it's rare.

A pretty safe rule is to never ever settle on food resources. You'd need a pretty strong reason to ever do so.

Whenever I see Sugar, I always consider settling on it. It's not a very strong tile either with a Plantation or a Cottage. By building on a jungle-infested Sugar, I can get the food bonus before Iron Working, and leverage that into whatever I want using the whip. I'll sometimes settle on jungle-infested Rice for the same reasons.

I dont mind settling on Sugar, but very rarely Rice, since there are 2 bumps for it (irrigation and Biology). Even if irrigating looks like a pain, its still a Farm so Bio bumps it.

Settle on the blue circle -- strong capitals are important!

I settle on banana, sugars and rice all the time...

i'd say blue circle as well

Round 1: 4000bc - 3700bc (12 turns)

That's right, twelve measly turns. Don't worry, I'm not going to play the whole game like this.

You will have noticed that, contrary to the ALC approach, I neither gave nor invited any ideas about how the traits/UU/UB might be leveraged or about any strategies I might adopt. I like my theory as much as anyone, but whilst playing I tend to follow the Lord Chambers doctrine (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=273061) and concentrate on emergent map conditions.Focus on the basics: improving your land and making tech choices according to immediate needs. If you do that you’ll be better off than trying to apply what you read in the Wall Street Journal to Civ4. With experience you will develop habits that look like long-term planning and become a smarter player. But don’t start with long term planning. Just get’cho land, son. All this banter about CE vs SE and its 8 million cousins should only help inform your decision making, but not make it for you.This doesn't mean I discourage anyone from discussing long-term options, or from suggesting ways to leverage this unusual Leader/Civ combo. It does mean, however, that I'm going to take things very slowly through the first few rounds, allowing you guys to see the new map information as it comes in, so you can help me to make sensible decisions in this crucial period.

I mulled over the various points raised in favour of other spots, but the blue circle seemed too perfect to pass up. Not only it will it make an awesome capital, it also allows for another city on the original spot (sharing the capital's food, whilst helping to develop some of its cottages). Another very minor bonus it gives is an extra :commerce: from the start, speeding our progress to the first couple of techs.

And so...
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

Floodplaintastic. This is going to be a monster. Health might pose a small problem at some point, but that can be dealt with fairly easily. Plus there's another gold to the south with at least two floodplains to support it (maybe that city could also overlap with the capital to help grow some cottages?).

And then, with only three turns on the clock:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg

I wouldn't count on it, Charlie.

My exploring warrior was redirected to seek out the Gallic capital. It didn't take long:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

He's on a hill, which is bad. But he's got stone, which is good. Let's hope De Gaulle has the personality of a troop-shy wonderspammer.

The warrior continued north, fighting off a lion attack, and discovering more desert. I decided to end the round as Mining came in, to discuss what I should research next, and to think about how we should deal with our mustachioed neighbour. Here's what we know about the world so far:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg

It seems there's a reasonable chance that De Gaulle is backed into a corner, and as such it might make more sense to block him than to rush him. With any luck, he'll build wonders whilst we hoover up the good land.

The one vaguely noteworthy thing I noticed from the info screens was that (if I understand it correctly) at least one other civ has a full twenty tiles of land in their initial BFC, meaning that this probably isn't an archipelago map.
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg

The average is fairly low, however, so I'm guessing most civs have started on the coast. As such, and from the look of our starting area, it could be worth a shot at the Great Lighthouse.

So, what do you guys think I should research next? Bronzeworking would be an obvious choice, what with all the food for whipping. On the other hand, The Wheel would allow us to hook up the corn and gold, and open up Pottery so we can get an early start on those floodplain cottages.

On the production front, the worker will be done in twelve turns, after which I figure he'll farm the corn and then mine the gold. Does anyone disagree with going for a workboat next?

Hi Winston,

My take on techs: BW ->Wheel -> Pottery -> IW (if no Bronze)
Prod:what you need to kill De Gaulle... (mainly depends on where is copper and need for a second city), don't block him: he is an agressive jerk...

Cheers,

Raskolnikov

don't block him: he is an agressive jerk...

Remember that Random Personalities is on, so he might be a pussycat. Of course, he might have Monty's brain instead, so I'm not taking anything for granted...

Oh my bad... well so your choice... perhaps BW (archery if no bronze)->potery ->writing in this case...

Cheers,

Raskolnikov

edit for GL path: BW->sailing (build the regular lighthouse while reserching...)->Masonry->Potery->Writing

yeah ... BW first and foremost

then if you have copper anywhere go Sailing>Masonry

if no copper go grab archery first

If he builds a dun and barracks, he'll have charismatic guerilla archers on a hill defending. If he upgrades to guerilla 2, and lets his religion speed him to a 60% bonus that's +50+50+25+50+60=235 bonus, or strength 10 archers.

I would go warrior before workboat. between corn and fp's you won't be desperate for food, and you have to scout to the south if you want to "get'cho land, son"! For techs, BW for the whip and to see where the copper is, and then post another round.

Tech: BW->Wheel->Pottery->(decide when more land is revealed)

BW to reveal copper, chop settler and work boat, slavery
Wheel to connect Corn and gold, you need health ASAP
Pottery for early cottages

Build: worker->warrior-warrior (grow to size 3) -> chop settler to rush to settle 1E of the desert gold hill before the Celts. (while working Corn and gold) -> Fish boat-> worker->Archer/settler combos

Have the 2 workers build cottages non-stop until happy limit.

You will get the early techs very quickly with gold and cottages, so you could go with Archery if no copper. Scout around to reveal more land to the south.

chop settler to rush to settle 1E of the desert gold hill before the Celts.

I like your plan, but that chop will cost us a :health:.

Do you think it's feasible to get the settler out in time without chopping, though?

I'd probably let De Gaulle run free for a bit. He's still industrious (right?), and he's got stone, so voting him off of the island should be deferred until he finishes a couple of wonders for you in Bibracte.

I like your plan, but that chop will cost us a :health:.

Do you think it's feasible to get the settler out in time without chopping, though?

1E of desert hill claims 4 FPs, 2 incense and a gold hill as far as we could see, this city will boost research considerablely, and connect it to your capital ASAP to add trade routes.

While i am not certain on this speed and difficulty, but I would recommend not taking any chances to miss this prime city spot.

We are Imperialistic, chopping Settler gets a large boost, those trees will go sooner or later.

We are coastal and have fresh water, health should be ok in the long run, for near term, you could whip a granary for added health.

Barbs could be a problem soon so BW followed by Archery if needed or by Husbandry to look for horses. A second city to the south is a huge priority; it will leave France blocked and get you closer to Brennus' land. after two cities than workers for cottages and you decide who to rush first.

I'd probably let De Gaulle run free for a bit. He's still industrious (right?), and he's got stone, so voting him off of the island should be deferred until he finishes a couple of wonders for you in Bibracte.

That's a very nice idea and a good way to use AI bonuses....

@ABigCivFan:
offtopic but thanks you for the warmonger's clash threads you posted some time ago... :goodjob:

A second city to the south is a huge priority; it will leave France blocked and get you closer to Brennus' land. after two cities than workers for cottages and you decide who to rush first.

No Brennus here, I'm afraid (well, not yet anyway).

This is Unrestricted Leaders and our only neighbour thus far is De Gaulle of the Celts (a peculiarly apt combo, given that the Gauls were a Celtic tribe).

Settle on the gold, you'll get an extra hammer to build with right from the get-go.

Boat-Worker->warrior. Farm the flood plains until cottages come along
Beeline pottery, push the city straight to 6 pop as gold will be already activated once you get mining and you are swimming in food. Mine the 2 hills, work them and as many cottages as you can once at cap. Pump, pump....

EDIT oops ignore me, I missed the boat already...

Settle on the gold, you'll get an extra hammer to build with right from the get-go.

Boat-Worker->warrior. Farm the flood plains until cottages come along
Beeline pottery, push the city straight to 6 pop as gold will be already activated once you get mining and you are swimming in food. Mine the 2 hills, work them and as many cottages as you can once at cap. Pump, pump....

EDIT oops ignore me, I missed the boat already...

What's with you guys and suggesting he settle on top of his superb tiles anyway? What, you wnat to make sure his capital isn't too good? :lol:

I can understand with calendar resources or subpar tiles like ivory and stone and I guess unirrigated rice, but gold in the capital is... pretty powerful, almost as great as high food.

But yeah, the boat has left the dock. :p

Edit: Bah people are confused so I get confused. I'll just point to Joshua's reply and urge you to mentally underline it.

Round 2: 3700bc - 2825bc (35 turns)

I decided to follow everyone's advice and stick with BW - enabling Slavery and chopping whilst revealing copper makes this tech pretty much the standard choice once I have a decent food source. Rare is the game where I put 3+ techs in front of it (though I've heard that some top-level players eschew it in favour of early Writing).

The first event of any note came when my warrior happened upon a forest of facial hair whilst exploring to the north:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip/Lucky%20Dip%20R2/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

Shortly after this, Mehmed founded and converted to Hinduism, putting him at odds with De Gaulle, who has taken up the teachings of Buddha.

Having discovered one neighbour to the north, further exploration was needed in that direction. Hence, as my worker set off to farm the corn, I started on a second warrior to scout the south:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip/Lucky%20Dip%20R2/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg

Shortly after this, my northern warrior came upon another rival:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip/Lucky%20Dip%20R2/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

I soon found out that Joao is actually on a different landmass, to the west of Mehmed:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip/Lucky%20Dip%20R2/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg

This brought two thoughts to mind. Firstly, the GLh looks yet more attractive (actually building it might be a problem, though). Secondly, I should send a workboat out to do some exploring, starting with those islands to the north-west of the capital.

Around this time, BW came in. Despite it not revealing any copper, I chose to go for The Wheel next, rather than starting towards Archery or AH:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip/Lucky%20Dip%20R2/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

As ABigCivFan pointed out, that gold mine makes early techs very quick to research, so we should have time to grab Archery if required. Moreover, having discovered a larger landmass to the north, I had a feeling that the south was not the expansive wilderness we had hoped for. Thus, a handful of fogbusting warriors might prove sufficient.

Once my worker had improved the corn and the gold, he got started on chopping for the settler:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip/Lucky%20Dip%20R2/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg

The new warrior headed south, and quickly discovered something that might come in handy:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip/Lucky%20Dip%20R2/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg

If De Gaulle shows himself to be in a wonderspamming mood, and if we don't decide to crush him beforehand, then I might consider trading the marble to him. Then, while he fills his boots, we sharpen our catapults. :mwaha:

When The Wheel was finished, I thought seriously about going for Sailing or Masonry, but decided to stick with Pottery:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip/Lucky%20Dip%20R2/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg

Will this leave time to grab the GLh? Maybe not, but I want those cottages up soon (plus granaries for health and whipping).

When the chop came in, I switched painlessly to Slavery (thank-you, Spiritual) and reached for the whip:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip/Lucky%20Dip%20R2/Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg

The next turn, with the settler waiting for orders and the south fully explored, I decided to end the turnset and seek further guidance.

In keeping with the grand tradition built by Sisiutil, a state-of-the-world post will follow.

Here is the south fully revealed, and dot mapped in crude fashion:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip/Lucky%20Dip%20R2/Civ4ScreenShot0016.jpg

Not much space, but enough to work with for the time being. Plus there's still some hope of finding more land across the NW sea.

On the desert isthmus to the north, it turns out that De Gaulle has blocked us in:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip/Lucky%20Dip%20R2/Civ4ScreenShot0011.jpg

I think this could actually play into our hands quite nicely, if we do decide to stay peaceful for the time being. Assuming the Celts continue to expand northwards, they're going to come up against Mehmed soon enough. Hence, they might have to divide their forces, leaving us an easier entry to De Gaulle's palace of wonders. We'll see.

Here's the area between the two of them:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip/Lucky%20Dip%20R2/Civ4ScreenShot0012.jpg

And Mehmed's lands:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip/Lucky%20Dip%20R2/Civ4ScreenShot0013.jpg

Inside our capital:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip/Lucky%20Dip%20R2/Civ4ScreenShot0014.jpg

If I'd noticed De Gaulle's second city was already settled, I would've delayed the whip to allow immediate regrowth. I've selected a warrior for the next build, but should I switch to a workboat? And should I dump the whip overflow into a second worker?

Espionage:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip/Lucky%20Dip%20R2/Civ4ScreenShot0017.jpg

This is arranged so that I keep getting demographic info on Joao and Mehmed. Does anyone have a better plan?

Finally, here is the demographics screen (not that I can see anything interesting here, but maybe someone else will):
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip/Lucky%20Dip%20R2/Civ4ScreenShot0000-1.jpg

If anybody wants to see any other screenies, I'll be happy to add them.

Can you post the starting save?

A few thoughts and recommendations.

1. Settle city 1, block off Celts. Have 1-2 warriors fogbust in the south and eliminate any barb problem from the south. which means you dont need to build more protective units or tech archery for a while and focus on setting up economy.

2. In capital, build 2nd worker(with the overflow) while keep working the corn and Gold, you will need him fast since now you have 2 cities needing improvements. Have the 2 workers connect corn, gold, and cottage spam FPs.

3. Chop+whip Granary for super fast pop growth and + 1 :health:. Then build a work boat and get that +1 :health: since you are health maxed at pop 2.

4. With the granary, allow capital to grow to max pop, work all the cottage FPs, then start pump out more settlers/warriors to clam your city 2 and 3 (i dont see the need for city 4 in that spot).

5. In city 1, chop/whip monument, then start a worker, Granary..

6. City 2 is a nice spot for an early GP farm, later we could even add Moai/workshops to make it prod powerhouse.

7. when have spare hammer, send a galley/scout to the west landmass to explore for more city spots.

Techwise:

Pottery->Myst

Then it gets interesting from here, you have high research rate with capital and city 1. You should be able to build Oracle or TOA.

If celts build the pyramid early then IW will be a priority :)

Edit: On further thoughts, given the low :hammers: high :commerce: situiation, buidling wonders is probably a bad distraction, you will blow away the poor AIs on research in the entire game without any wonders(except GL). Instead, I would think the next priorities should be:

1. Get city 1 and city 2 up ASAP, set city 1 on FP cottages, city 2 assign 2 scients (for an Academy in capital)

2. You are already boxed in with limited resources, so Send galley carrying archers to the West for explore and possibility to unlock HE. Settle West if found good land.

3. Go Aest->Literature route for GL in capital

4. Re-evaluate taking out Celts early to get his high prod capital with stone/seafood. This will require IW and Iron.

Can you post the starting save?

In fact plz can you post everytime you dump a load of screens. Having the saves to pore over is always easier than the screenies (loading issues aside).

I'll be particularly interested how you fare if you don't get any iron to go with your lack of copper.

3. Go Aest->Literature route for GL in capital

Is putting GL in capital such good idea ? The capital looks like a good bureacracy capital, why not put GL in the GPP farm ?

Is putting GL in capital such good idea ? The capital looks like a good bureacracy capital, why not put GL in the GPP farm ?

In general, the capital is always the most developed city suited for building the GL. But in this game, city 2 certainly is a good candidate for this job as the primary GP farm.

Sometimes the simplest solution is the best one, you're boxed in, I dont care about the west, De gaulle has got to go, this means your gonna have to get some metal and/or horses to take him out. IW and AH should be priorities, if he doesn't have time to build any shiny wonders for you then tough luck, your 4 cities may look good atm but remember that land is power and right now you are being denied what is rightfully yours. In summary, the general rule is when boxed in, kill De Gaulle, worry bout the rest later...

If this doesn't work, then beeline COL so you can build Chicken Itza, the AI's, realizing that you are now indestructible, should all immediately capitulate to you.

Personally being this cramped and only two tiles away I would rush the guy, but I suppose that's just me. Just don't like being boxed in. :p Build any smelly wonders I want myself afterwards.

If you do plan on being peaceful beyond the classical era, you're going to need to expand somewhere. Those islands to your northwest are your best bet, I'd check those out for any cities asap.

Being trapped in is really bad.

Can you post the starting save?

In fact plz can you post everytime you dump a load of screens. Having the saves to pore over is always easier than the screenies (loading issues aside).

Oops. More dumbness. :blush:

I've now attached the saves. I hope they work for you.

Being trapped in is really bad.

True. But, from the looks of things, neither De Gaulle or Mehmed has much to work with either. I suspect that the combination of arid climate and high sea level means good land will be in very short supply. The worry, of course, is that one or two AI civs get most of it, while the rest of us have to fight over scraps.

In general, the capital is always the most developed city suited for building the GL.

Is this because you are racing to build it ? I can see how being fearful of losing that race would cause you to build it in a capital or production city. But those free GPP's should really be in your GP farm IMHO.

Personally being this cramped and only two tiles away I would rush the guy,
What would you rush him with ? - gold jewelery ? He has no copper and we wait with breathless anticipation for the iron to make itself known...

I've now attached the saves. I hope they work for you.

Ahh, they don't - looks like you'll need to upload your entire Civ4 directory :mischief:- or maybe I'll just stick to the screenies - Thanks for trying...

What would you rush him with ? - gold jewelery ? He has no copper and we wait with breathless anticipation for the iron to make itself known...

Horses or iron, odds are he has at least one of those.

Then again this is a bizarre map, perhaps he won't have any strategic resources at all. Go go longbow rush! :lol:

Why the heck are you chopping at this point?

What would you rush him with ? - gold jewelery ? He has no copper and we wait with breathless anticipation for the iron to make itself known...

De Gaulle also has a hilltop holy-city for a capital, which counts very strongly against an Archer rush (which would be pretty desperate anyway).

But should I make the detour to IW right now? Other than revealing Iron, the tech holds no benefit for me in the current situation, and it's fairly pricey. If no iron was available on my peninsula, then I'd have wasted a lot of early beakers for nothing.

I have space for a few cities and can build a pretty useful economy (low maintenance too, since the cities will be very close together), so I could head up the Writing path whilst checking out the NW islands. If insufficient land was available, then I could go for an army of cats + whatever else I can muster (after teching/trading for IW and AH).

Another question at the moment is whether I should take a shot at any early wonders. The GLh looks very powerful on this map, and with marble the Oracle might be feasible. Hammers are in short supply, but I could use whip overflow to speed things up.

Again, though, this would take me off the Writing path, and would mean less focus on basic economic development.

All suggestions will be gratefully received.

Why the heck are you chopping at this point?

Yeah, that was a mistake. The point was to get the settler out asap to prevent De Gaulle from settling the second gold. In the event (and as I should have realised) he settled elsewhere, so I could've preserved the health benefit. :sad:

Edit: Oh, do you mean right now, on the hill to the SW? The worker was actually moved there to scout the coast, so I could dotmap before settling. In retrospect, that was unnecessary and quite wasteful (two worker turns?).

But should I make the detour to IW right now?

I have no idea, but getting swordrushed by AI's when I've only got archery is a speciality of mine, and I was wondering if it was yours too. Odds are you'll improve your resource situation anyway scouting the NW islands, which I'm guessing is your primary strategy after settling your plot.

Its just that its going to be an exciting spectator event waiting to see what Degaulle does if he has resources himself...:mischief:

Still if he has stone and no iron (can't see copper) then might he build wonders instead of defense ? - how tempting is that ?

settle se and go scout the islands on NW

Yeah, that was a mistake. The point was to get the settler out asap to prevent De Gaulle from settling the second gold. In the event (and as I should have realised) he settled elsewhere, so I could've preserved the health benefit. :sad:



This is Immortal, how do you know De Gaulle does not have another settler waiting to settle that nice spot in 3 turns?

losing 1 :health: in capital is not nearly as bad as losing a prime city spot in a very small land mass.

After you add some cottages, your research will be very high, you could just go Writing/Aesth/Literature route, and trade Aesth for alphabet and IW. I think this is the most economically sound option give you have Marble, and it gives you a shot at early GL/Parthenon.

If you research IW and dont get Iron, it will be a big waste of beakers.

Actually it's emperor, but the point stands. You can still sword/axe or whatever him if you trade for IW and have it (should be time before feudalism normally, even on immortal), and the research boost from the lit route will help immensely.

Round 3: 2825bc - 1375bc (58 turns)

I had intended to settle 1E of the gold, but on arrival realised this would miss out on a valuable foodsource, and so:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R3/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

It's a shame that Utrecht won't be able to help grow the capital's cottages, but the fish will make it much better for whipping troops and such.

Meanwhile, it seems we're the third largest civ:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R3/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

Does this refer to land or population? In either case, it's nice to know our rivals haven't all got off to an explosive start.

Once Pottery came in, the next tech was an easy choice:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R3/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg

The tech path for this round went: Pottery->Myst->Writing->Sailing->AH->Maths.

I should've gone for AH earlier to start working the cows (I often make this mistake, for some reason).

And ignoring the advice from some very knowledgeable players, I chose Maths over Aethetics. The latter doesn't have quite the same trade value on Emperor as it does on higher levels (since it's much easier to be first to other tradeable techs). And, being blocked in with low production and (hopefully) a wonderspamming neighbour, the idea of building shiny stuff doesn't seem so appealing, especially as I discovered elephants to the NW:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R3/Civ4ScreenShot0011.jpg

Despite being Spiritual, I neglected to switch out of Slavery whenever possible, and paid the inevitable price:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R3/Civ4ScreenShot0018.jpg

You can see in the background of the last screen that De Gaulle (Celts) has built the Great Wall. He doesn't seem to be building many troops either, which is a very positive sign. With Mehmed (Carthage) having built Stonehenge, and both of them having founding early religions, this is looking like my kind of neighbourhood. :ar15:

De Gaulle saw fit to demand we convert to his faith:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R3/Civ4ScreenShot0022.jpg

I declined, but accepted a subsequent demand from Joao:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R3/Civ4ScreenShot0023.jpg

By the end of the turnset I had settled a third city:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R3/Civ4ScreenShot0024.jpg

Other than the elephants, the islands to the northwest proved rather disappointing:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R3/Civ4ScreenShot0026.jpg

Although I did discover some more islands to the southeast, there's only one useful spot, and even that looks valuable only for the resources:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R3/Civ4ScreenShot0025-1.jpg

The Celtic lands don't look especially great either:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R3/Civ4ScreenShot0027.jpg

Assuming I attack in the not-too-distant future, I'd think about razing Vienne and replacing it with a city on the incense, which could help grow the capital's cottages.

My neighbours' power ratings are better than mine, but not so much as I might expect with only three warriors to my name:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R3/Civ4ScreenShot0030.jpg

On the diplomatic front, as ever it looks to be dividing on religious lines - De Gaulle (Buddhist) on one side, Mehmed and Joao (Hindu) on the other. I don't have Hinduism as yet, but I figure I'll convert straight away if it spreads to one of my cities.

So, that's where I'm up to. What next?

How soon should I look to attack De Gaulle? I'm tempted to wait and see if he builds any more wonders, though it'd be nice to hit him before he gets longbows (and then, perhaps, move straight onto Mehmed).

And which techs should I be pursuing now? Currency would offer an economic boost, and usually makes excellent trade fodder at this level. From there, I could continue on to CoL, thus enabling Caste System (which, being Spiritual with plenty of food, could be very handy indeed).

On the other hand, the warmonger in me is crying out for Construction and HBR. With such limited production, it would be helpful to get started on building an army sooner rather than later.

Or maybe you still think I should go for Aesthetics and Literature? I reckon I could get the Great Library if I went straight for it. But is it worth both the beakers and hammers at this stage?

Any other comments, suggestions or criticisms?

:hmm: Five days, zero responses. Any takers? Or shall I let the thread die and finish this game in private?

Aww yeh this is kinda depressing.

The idea for this game was good, but personally the Arid map and random civ doesn't attract me that much, but it suprises me to see there are no reactions at all :(

Five days, zero responses. Any takers? Or shall I let the thread die and finish this game in private?

Sounds like my experience in the latest SOGTM (I left...)..

How soon should I look to attack De Gaulle?

As soon as you find something better than clubs to hit him with... I take it you're eying up the elephants. Never done a fast contruction tech myself, look forward to watching how you do it ( I take it thats what the early Mathematics was for...).

I wouldn't give up on the island with the copper, there seem to be a few places where fish could be found yet.

You have gold, ivory and fur - nice ! who needs monarchy ??

I also really wanna see this game playd out, you're kinda boxed in on an interesting mapwith interesting civs, at the very least you can make the game interesting by doing some kind of gambit like beeline construction and go to war with elephants and cats. I'm always interested in how you would play a game with no metals readily available, I just usually reroll if that happens:blush:...

Play it out, i have never really had a great game as Wilhelm, i may learn a thing or 2

Winston, I DL your files but BTS complained about locked asset and crashed my game every time.

I was gonna play some turns for you to compare your game with. Could you post a normal save? Or do I need to do something special to open your saves?

I'm always interested in how you would play a game with no metals readily available, I just usually reroll if that happens..

I always get my butt kicked when that happens...

I was gonna play some turns for you to compare your game with. Could you post a normal save? Or do I need to do something special to open your saves?

I can't load the game either, but its beyond our control. Winston accidentally set the game with locked assets so unless you set up your selection of mods on your PC EXACTLY like him you can't load the game. This is a screenie based game forum :)

I made a similar mistake when I started a thread once.....

Please, don't give up :)
This game has been very interesting and I'd love to see it continue. Maybe some elephant action..?

I just found this thread today and was thinking while reading it that it seems like an interesting game, so I would also like to see it continued.

I don't think you should wait any longer with De Gaulle. He did build you a wonder, but since random personalities is on it could also be the last he'll build the entire game; even Shaka sometimes builds wonders. Due to its shape and the fact that you're boxed in with no good islands nearby your continent is begging to be conquered, and it'll be a rather linear affair. There is no real reason to delay this. If you start now you could have the whole continent consolidated and your economy recovered by the time you meet the rest of the world (if they are too far to meet pre-Optics).

I would tech Construction and start building catapults while teching either Iron Working or HBR, and send a settler to the elephants in the meantime as well. It is a bit of a shame to waste the marble by not going the Literature route but I think the situation calls for it.

I hope you'll keep this game going. I've noticed that forum participation has really dropped off now that school is back in session. :p So don't be discouraged by lack of responses.

I'd say it's time to take out DeGaulle. You've got 2 other tech partners (for the time being), so just adopt hinduism and join the Happy Hindu Tech Club (HHTC) until you're ready to take over the continent.

I hope you'll keep this game going. I've noticed that forum participation has really dropped off now that school is back in session. So don't be discouraged by lack of responses.

hehe, I'm back at school myself (though not as a student).

Anyway, as long as I know there's someone reading my reports, I'm happy to continue.

Winston, I DL your files but BTS complained about locked asset and crashed my game every time.

Negator is right, I'm afraid. Even I've suffered a couple of CTDs while attempting to load the saves (I think this is because I have BUGmod, though that doesn't explain why it hasn't happened every time).

People with a totally unmodded but fully patched (3.17 plus Solver (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=279724)) BtS might have more luck, though.

The moral of this story? Lock Modified Assets is the non-default option of Satan. :satan:

Maybe some elephant action..?

That seems very likely. :D

I'm always interested in how you would play a game with no metals readily available

Well, there is copper on that island to the SE, and I'll be making sure to grab it in the near future.

But you should definitely check out these succession games:

An Empire of Cards - No Metal Challenge (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=206431)

Empire of Cards - No Metal Challenge 2 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=209385)

i have never really had a great game as Wilhelm, i may learn a thing or 2

I'm actually playing as Justinian (Spi/Imp) of the Dutch.

Despite having my favourite trait (Spiritual), this is a fair bit weaker than Willem's Fin/Cre, especially on a watery map. But the Dikes will surely get a workout, and the East Indiaman might come in handy too.

I would tech Construction and start building catapults while teching either Iron Working or HBR, and send a settler to the elephants in the meantime as well. It is a bit of a shame to waste the marble by not going the Literature route but I think the situation calls for it.

hehe, I'm definitely more warmonger than wonderspammer, so this plan suits me very well.

Never done a fast contruction tech myself, look forward to watching how you do it ( I take it thats what the early Mathematics was for...)

I'd also like to pick up Currency before long. The extra trade route is nice, especially since I'll have overseas cities once I've settled the islands, but it's the ability to trade (and beg) for gold that I'm most attracted to.

but it's the ability to trade (and beg) for gold that I'm most attracted to.

Do you beg with a big stick ??? I've never done that either.... ahh lots of new civ-tech coming up methinks...

Do you beg with a big stick ???

You mean demand tribute? Yes, but only when I'm not worried about the diplomatic demerits.

Round 4: 1375bc - 395bc (42 turns)

My first decision was to go for Currency next, rather than Construction. I wasn't ready to start spamming troops right away, and Currency->Construction would be faster than the other way round.

The RNG decided to lend me a hand:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%201/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

The galley in the top left corner was carrying a settler to found Rotterdam on the fish/elephant island (I forgot the screenie).

Shortly after Currency came in, I was informed that De Gaulle had completed the Great Lighthouse - the very wonder I had been most tempted to build myself. :yumyum:

From here I went Hunting->Masonry->Construction.

Another rival made his presence known:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%201/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg

And a fifth city was settled to the south:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%201/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg

Having three happiness resources means I can afford to wait a little longer than usual for Monarchy/Calendar.

Around this time, the tech trade market opened for business...

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%201/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg

Over the next few turns I made a number of trades, picking up Archery, Meditation, IW and about 200 gold. I also begged Priesthood from Mehmed, our trade relations having raised him to Pleased.

Meanwhile, De Gaulle had made several demands, all of which I rejected. Given my low power rating and the closeness of our borders, I kept a close eye on his diplo screen:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%201/Civ4ScreenShot0022.jpg

With Mehmed way ahead of him on the power chart, I was surely the target. Even though my military buildup had now begun, I would be in real trouble if he invaded any time soon.

Thankfully, I had enough leverage with Mehmed to buy me some time:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%201/Civ4ScreenShot0023.jpg

I wasn't entirely happy with this, there being a slight danger of Mehmed crushing De Gaulle before I'm ready to join in.

Another low-rent coastal city was settled:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%201/Civ4ScreenShot0024.jpg

With the techs needed for war elephants now in place, my research could switch to an economic focus. I chose CoL next, for Caste System, and to open up CS and Philosophy.

Late on, De Gaulle bribed Joao to join the war against Mehmed:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%201/Civ4ScreenShot0025.jpg

A welcome development, I think.

Little else of note happened before the end of the round, and I decided to stop after CoL came in (founding Confucianism in The Hague).

YAY this thread isnt dead!:lol:

The State of Play - 395bc

My corner of the world:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%201/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%202/Civ4ScreenShot0013.jpghttp://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%201/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%202/Civ4ScreenShot0014.jpgDe Gaulle:http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%201/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%202/Civ4ScreenShot0015.jpgThe North:http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%201/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%202/Civ4ScreenShot0011.jpghttp://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%201/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%202/Civ4ScreenShot0012.jpgTech and Resources:http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%201/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%202/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpghttp://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%201/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%202/Civ4ScreenShot0016.jpgDemographics, Wonders, and Power Graph:http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%201/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%202/Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpghttp://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%201/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%202/Civ4ScreenShot0010.jpghttp://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%201/Lucky%20Dip%20R4%20part%202/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpgWhat Now?

At the moment, De Gaulle has neither metals nor horses connected, although he does have an unseen third city, which may claim the iron to the north. In any case, his first two cities are on hills, and will probably have Duns by the time I attack (if they don't already), which means both tougher defences and tougher defenders.

All I have so far is a single catapult, and clearly I'll be needing more of those. But how should the rest of my army be composed? An even mix of axes, swords and eles?

Also, there's the question of my attack plan. Will it be better to take down Vienne first, or to go straight for the main prize? I'm leaning towards the latter, and maybe planting a defender or two on the hill SE of Vienne to guard against counterattacks.

On the tech front, I've put one turn into CS already, but I'm wondering if I should go for Philosophy first. Being Spiritual, I can switch to Caste/Pacifism (and the requisite religion) between whips, to get my GP production on the go. Any thoughts?

YAY this thread isnt dead!:lol:

Aye, against all the odds it's still clinging on to life. This week saw it survive the near-destruction of my civ PC by a houseguest. :badcomp:

This week saw it survive the near-destruction of my civ PC by a houseguest. :badcomp:
Wow, that sounds like a story, mate, lets have some details!

Wow, that sounds like a story, mate, lets have some details!

I don't actually know what he did - the guest had vanished by the time I got home, and hasn't been seen or heard from since.

From the damage it sustained, I can only assume he managed to knock the PC off my desk.

Given that it's right next to my bed, which I had lent to him and his girlfriend while I was away, one possible explanation does spring to mind... :spank:

elephants, cats, and a couple of axes are all you would need for DeGualle smashing. I would only bother with swords if you wanted some well promoted City raider veterans for latter campaings. Since it looks like you are out of free land at the moment sooner rather than later for war seems warranted.

As far as war tactic, I dont think it matters alot since you will not be keeping the second city and his cultural borders are large. He will have time to whip defenders if either city is first target.

Unless you prepared a navy for a quicker strike? I know that is alot more hammers to use but you may need the navy both to chase down his last cities and long term for a water heavy map.

Anyway thanks for taking the thread back up!

Get enough elephants and catapults (whip and use the sea to regrow) and QUICKLY get Bibracte. Then go attack Vienne.

Hi,

Go on with the game Winston... it' a nice read ;)
Too bad with your PC problems, but the story was hilarious :)
On the game: nothing to add to what DMOC said, you have cities, good GNP, time to war!

Cheers,
Raskolnikov

heh heh... Amphibious Elephants ?? (then he ducked...)

Round 5: 395bc - 175ad (38 turns)

I began the round by switching research to Philosophy, and trading Maths to Joao for Polytheism and 80 gold. I also sent my missionary onwards to check out De Gaulle's defences, and to find his third city:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

So, no metals for him just yet, which means my Elephants should have a pretty easy ride.

Since he didn't have horses either, I saw no harm in making this little trade:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg

He soon lost that third city, as Mehmed's marauders swept southwards:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Civ4ScreenShot0010.jpg

At this point I began to question the wisdom of having provoked that war in the first place. In the event, I managed to knock out half-decent army pretty damned fast. And since De Gaulle only had Archers, I surely could've handled anything he might have thrown at me.

In any case, Mehmed's success spurred me to get my own army built even quicker, racking up some serious multi-whip unhappiness in the process. Adding to De Gaulle's woes, JC joined the war against him in 140bc.

Meanwhile, I got another holy city when Philosophy came in:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Civ4ScreenShot0014.jpg

That makes four on the continent - my two, plus one each for Mehmed and De Gaulle. I'm beginning to think about going for a culture victory. Four religions plus Spiritual's cheap Temples is all good. And I should be pretty secure once I've taken over the whole continent. Also, with plenty of seafood about, Sid's Sushi looks very attractive.

De Gaulle had been spamming Archers like a man possessed, but lost several to Mehmed's troops, and my whip frenzy soon yielded enough units for the job. Time to get in on the action:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Civ4ScreenShot0019.jpg

I had to leave a couple of Axes behind to deal with enemy incursions (of which there were several), but soon my stack reached the Celtic capital:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Civ4ScreenShot0023.jpg

I took a turn to reduce the defences, then sacrificed a couple of Cats to weaken the defenders, allowing my Eles to take the city without any major risk of casualties.

There was an extra bonus waiting in Bibracte:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Civ4ScreenShot0039.jpg

I don't know if I'll ever get much use out of Scotlard Yard, but it's nice to have the option.

The main thing was that I now had the GLh. My economy got a significant boost straight away, and it will only get better as my empire expands. The attack also brought my first Great General, which I later settled in Bibracte for reasons that now escape me.

Having achieved my main objective, however, I realised I wasn't quite ready to take Vienne as well. That city now had even more Archers than I'd faced in Bibracte, and I needed to bring up some reinforcements. Since I was going to raze it, I also wanted to have a settler ready to prevent Mehmed sneaking in.

Checking the diplo situation, a second DoW would further weaken relations with Joao. But, to be frank, the latter was looking very weak, with only three cities up and a huge tech deficit. So, I decided to call a temporary halt to the war, taking Monotheism from De Gaulle in exchange. This wasn't necessary, but it was convenient and didn't do any real harm.

As always, I took every opportunity to get something for nothing:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Civ4ScreenShot0044.jpg

This was the best of several successful begs, the total haul being about 200 gold. Along with the conquest cash, this allowed me to keep up a reasonable research rate through the round, despite escalating costs.

At this time, with my reinforcements now on their way to join the stack, I made the civics switch I had been planning since the start of the round:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Civ4ScreenShot0053.jpg

Having adopted Buddhism as well, this allowed me to use a weaker city to blast out my first GP:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Civ4ScreenShot0055.jpg

Thank you, Spiritual. :goodjob:

Despite our religious differences, Mehmed was still open to tech trading:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Civ4ScreenShot0063.jpg

I'm planning to move against him before long, and the other civs I've met so far are total losers. Thus, I wasn't too bothered about losing my monopoly on these techs. If I'm to have any real opposition as the game goes on, it'll come from one of the unmet civs, so it makes sense to speed things up at my end.

Once my Great Scientist had been born in Rotterdam (and sent to build an Academy in the capital), I changed civics again:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Civ4ScreenShot0065.jpg

I also went back to 'no state religion', which improved the diplomatic situation. I'll need to start pumping out some missionaries soon, but for the time being, the cost of Organised Religion outweighs the benefits.

As soon as the ten turns of peace were up, I went on the attack once more:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Civ4ScreenShot0067.jpg

The city fell easily enough, and met the fate it deserved for being so badly placed:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Civ4ScreenShot0075.jpg

My last significant action of the round was to settle another, more helpfully-placed city, and to use my free Taoist missionary to save it building a Monument:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Civ4ScreenShot0077.jpg

You will notice, however, that De Gaulle is still in the game. He got a new third city shortly before I took Bibracte. It must be on another island somewhere, and I suppose I could go hunt it down (I do have a second Galley in production). But I'm thinking it might be better to roll straight on to Mehmed...

The State of Play - 175ad

The Dutch Empire:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part2/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpghttp://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part2/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpghttp://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part2/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpgMehmed:http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part2/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpghttp://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part2/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpgTech and Diplomacy:http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part2/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpghttp://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part2/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpgDemographics, Wonders, and Power Graph:http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part2/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpghttp://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part2/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpghttp://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part1/Lucky%20Dip%20R5%20part2/Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpgWhat Now?

I'm minded to go after Mehmed almost immediately. Tolosa only has a single Archer defending it at present, and my forces look more than adequate to take that and then move onto Cologne (which, now I come to think about it, he must have taken from Joao). I might then pause to bring up reinforcements, and recover my economy a little, before pushing on to secure the north.

The real question I'm mulling over right now is whether to start working towards a cultural victory. Looking at the information available, I have little doubt I could win this game by military means, racking up a much bigger score in the process. But things are set up quite nicely for culture, and I could do with some practice going for that victory condition.

Hi Winston :hatsoff:,

nice round...
Yes Mehmet is your next target if the economy allows...
I would suggest a switch to Hindu when your last city have poped borders, in order to please Joao and Cesar while you kill the Mehmet...

The risk going cultural is that you don't know the AIs out there, with random personnality, you can expect everything... including some random DoW...
That being said, with all your religions, it could be interesting...

Cheers,
Raskolnikov

Cultural is certainly possible at this point. You should know the basics... have nine cities, spread all your religions to each of them, build temples, then build cathedrals, that's mostly all there is to it. :p

Make sure each of your three culture cities is at least one of the following: Cottaged up for the culture slider, has tons of excess food for Caste System artists, or lots of wonders for culture. Then tech liberalism (free speech), nationalism (hermitage) and printing press (more culture from cottages), shut off research, have the three cities build culture, press enter a hundred times and win. :king:

I would suggest a switch to Hindu when your last city have poped borders, in order to please Joao and Cesar while you kill the Mehmet...

Unfortunately, I don't have Hinduism in any of my cities (otherwise I would've converted already). But it is a reason not to adopt any other religion for the moment.

The risk going cultural is that you don't know the AIs out there, with random personnality, you can expect everything... including some random DoW...

Yep, and this is why I don't often go for culture - generally, the choice needs to be made well before you have full knowledge of the map and your opponents. It is possible to rush for culture later on - especially if you get a decent corp - but, in my experience, it really pays to make the decision early.

Cultural is certainly possible at this point. You should know the basics... have nine cities, spread all your religions to each of them, build temples, then build cathedrals, that's mostly all there is to it.

Make sure each of your three culture cities is at least one of the following: Cottaged up for the culture slider, has tons of excess food for Caste System artists, or lots of wonders for culture. Then tech liberalism (free speech), nationalism (hermitage) and printing press (more culture from cottages), shut off research, have the three cities build culture, press enter a hundred times and win.

That's a very nice summary of the 'classic' culture strat. :goodjob:

There is, however, a certain danger in that approach. Namely, you risk being invaded by a technologically advanced rival.

An alternative I've used in the past is to have cottages everywhere but the culture cities, the latter being tailored for production and/or specialists instead. This way, you don't need to sacrifice the research output of other cities by raising the culture slider, so you can continue to pick up military techs, as well as those later-game culture boosters (esp. corps, broadcast towers). In ideal circumstances, it's not as fast as the classic method. But in other cases it can be the safer option.

As for this game, my capital would be a good cottaged culture city, whilst Mehmed's capital will do very nicely as an Artist culture city. But where is the third one? Bibracte has a couple of wonders, and could have a shrine later on, but there's lots of water and not enough food or production for my liking.

I'm thinking I should scout out Joao and JC's capitals in the near future. If both are stacked with food, then maybe I could use them to run Artists, and keep all my other cities (inc. the capital) pumping out beakers. On the other hand, if I'm going to conquer those two as well, perhaps I should just take my standard, warmongering route to victory. :hmm:

If I read your report right, you have four religions on your landmass, that means only 3 for any others, perhaps there is another continent more religiously united than yours.

Might this not spell trouble if you go for Culture win too soon ( getting dogpiled by "the faithful ?).

If Monte is out there (or more precisely, someone with Monte's brain) you might want to spot him with optics sooner rather than later....

But, as has been said, nice job with the ele-cats...

So far looking pretty good. Ofcourse we don't know what the 'unknown' civs are doing atm.

Cultural is ofcourse possible with that many religions on your island, but maybe it's more fun to dominate the world and well looking at your current known civs this should be possible.
Your power rating is allready far above theirs, so if I were you and you have the forces now I would go for Mehmed.

:bump: YAY!