What sort of structure do we want as a team. Do we want to have a formal structure where we have formal chain of command where we have various positions for members should they want to be active in the game, or do we want a loose structure where anyone can be part of the action, which will be more lke a SGOTM?

So far the most successful teams have played under the formal format. I know that team MIA was the most formally structured team I have ever been under and Epsilon started out that way, but many players did not finish so it become almost a one man band, with a few helpers. So I am going for a formal structure like having a turnplayer, them someone who looks after the other bits such as diplomacy and the domestic part of the game. and so on.

I'm up for designated roles too, so we know who's butt to kick if things get missed :D

I have no problem with a formal structure as long as each has a back-up as not to miss any tasks.

Jeff

In a very structured environment, what happens when the person designated as 'It' for a subject just wanders off?

I'm not opposed to having formal roles. I just don't want to face the situation where we cannot act because one of our leaders is missing.

The single player demo games are plagued with problems generated by formal roles. I've had a pleasant experience in the current Civ III MTDG where there are no formalities. I think we should seriously consider playing together without formal roles and just let us all contribute according to our individual strengths.

In Team FREE (Civ III MTDG 2) we started out with formal positions but as the game has progressed we've drifted away from that. Sometimes it hurts, like when our Turnplayer has had to drop out for a while, but overall I think it has been helpful for participation and team input.

Right now I'm Turnplayer not because I am the best player or any such nonsense. I'm Turnplayer because I can and will do it, and no one else really wants to. Others have ideas/suggestions and I implement them.

Ideally, I would like everyone on the team (Team FREE and Team 1) to have the chance to be Turnplayer.

I don't know how different Civ IV is from Civ III, but I would favor the idea that in the early game we rotate the Turnplayer every 5 or 10 turns or so, to give more people the chance to experience the joys and pressure of being the Turnplayer. In turn, I think those people will be more inclined to stick with the game, since they have had a direct affect on the game by the decisions that they made.

Later on we could drift into other roles as we meet the other teams in-game.

I think I like the idea of 'Slightly Organized Chaos' as our team structure. :D

I like the idea of a loose structure. It allows people to be involved and not put to much pressure on a few people.

I think we need to get a little organized, at least in the beginning. We want to get off to a good start and we don't want to be the team that drops the ball and messes up the overall game.

1) Do we have any turn players? (if not this is going to be a really short game!)

2) Do we have any micromanagers who understand the BTS game mechanics and like to crunch the numbers? Our opponents have these kind of players and they are going to leverage every little efficiency to get ahead. Someone who plays at a high level on single player and knows all the gambits would help keeps us competitive.

3) Do we have any experienced diplomats? This might be a good role for our CIV III MTDG vets! My only fear is you guys might get outclassed during diplomacy by opponents who have 1st hand knowledge of the BTS mechanics (negotiating for tech trades, etc.)

Me:
1) can't right now
2) micromanager tendencies but I don't know all the gambits
3) no diplo experience

1) Can't - don't have BtS
2) I thought in [civ4] micromanaging wasn't important? :confused:
3) Only so-so in diplomacy. Our diplomat doesn't have to have exact BtS knowledge. He just has to be able to write good letters since he can get the nuts and bolts from the rest of the team.

I joined Team Smurkz in the SGOTM 9 - Civ IV (the current Civ IV SGOTM) and I was surprised at the number crunching and demo games they played. Niklas has always been a number cruncher, in addition to having a good grasp of strategy and how everything fits together.

I am willing to be Speaker-to-Animals, when the time arrives, but I don't think I should be the only one. If we do have a lot of dialogue with the other teams, we should try to have one person for each team.

Of course, if they don't talk back, that doesn't work too well. :crazyeye:

I am willing to be Speaker-to-Animals, when the time arrives, but I don't think I should be the only one.

:lol:

Ok, I hear what people are saying about set roles, but we should at least make sure we have core areas covered by maybe some mini-teams?

So for example, how many turn players do we have? How many people want to do diplo? How many micromanage? Perhaps that's a good half-way house between too much structure and not enough?

Turn-Players
Diplomats
BeanCounters and ExcelWizards
Dreamers and Planners
The Usual Gang of Idiots

Turn-Player Yes - since I have BTS and am patched to 3.17
Diplomats No - I know nobody
BeanCounters and ExcelWizards No - I was never a number counter. I guess that explains why I haven't gotten past Prince
Dreamers and Planners Yes - I do have pretty good vision for city planning and placement.
The Usual Gang of Idiots Yes - I have been called worse :crazyeye:

Jeff

Turn-Player: Willing, but I lack the game. Hopefully, that will change at Christmas.
Diplomats: Willing, have done so in the past.
BeanCounters and ExcelWizards: Not my strong suit, but it is something I need to focus on.
Dreamers and Planners: Sometimes.
The Usual Gang of Idiots: Guilty as charged. :lol:

My main claim to fame in the Civ III MTDG 2 has been creating stories about in-game events (mostly) for Team FREE. And that was because I could and nobody else would.

I'm willing to be turn-player, but I've had some problems with multiplayer in the past so I'm not sure if it will work.

Btw, this is my first Multi-team Demogame and I'm not sure how it works. How is the gamesave loaded, played, saved, etc?

If I can't be turn-player I'll just join the gang of idiots I suppose =p

I'd like to work in all areas although I don't think I have the requisites skills to lead one of the mini-teams... well maybe the usual idiots :D

But seriously, we need to identify turn players- is there anyone that can play? anyone?...

Ah Boko just volunteered to be a turn player while i was typing, at least we can get off the ground now!

Does anyone know if I could log onto to pitboss to view the turn if I don't have BTS 3.17? I'm guessing not, but i've never done pitboss before. Correct me if I'm wrong guys but the pitboss server will allow us to check out the game status anytime right? We are going to have to come up with a way to report info/screenshots so those people who cant log onto pitboss can still contribute. I might just have to patch 3.17 and say sayonara to one of my current pbem games...

Does anyone know if I could log onto to pitboss to view the turn if I don't have BTS 3.17?
Now that is a good question. Has it been asked in the UN anywhere?

Turn-Player Yes - I have BTS and am patched to 3.17 but have limited time so I should be a backup turn-player.
Diplomats No - Not sure how involved I'll be able to be in this as well.
BeanCounters and ExcelWizards Yes - Excel dude here
Dreamers and Planners Yes - I normally play on Emperor Huge or Immortal, but don't have MP experience, but happy to help with this.
The Usual Gang of Idiots - Oh alright then

I can be a turn player...will have to be subbed when on vacation though..

I am a very good microer

But I suck at diplomacy

I mainly play multiplayer on civplayers league and pitboss where diplomacy is non existant or minimal that is why..

In any case the turn player should post screens here and bring up issues for discussion..

And of course all that have BTS should log in game from time to time and see what is happening.

To be honest if someone does not have BTS It will be difficult for him to help in any way as BTS is different in many aspects than previous versions..

Is there any way I can test if I can be a turn-player? Maybe make a test pitboss game for myself to see if it works? I'd like to know if I can be a turn-player, but I'm not sure at this point since I've never done a game like this.

Is there any way I can test if I can be a turn-player? Maybe make a test pitboss game for myself to see if it works? I'd like to know if I can be a turn-player, but I'm not sure at this point since I've never done a game like this.

All you need to be a turn player is to have BTS and internet connection

But the turn player must be very experienced player, we can take decisions in the forums but micro is very important...and obviously we cannot go through every small detail here as the game progresses..

But the turn player must be very experienced player,
Well, as a Turn Player in Civ 3, experience is helpful but not required. And by this I mean that if you are a solid player at the medium difficulty ranges, you should do fine as a Turn Player. You don't have to win at Sid to do a good turn.

Also, just because you haven't played at the medium levels is no reason to disqualify someone from being Turn Player, if they have the proper guidance, and that means us giving them helps, hints and step-by-step plans of what to do.

While experience is important, another factor just as critical is trust. Do we as the team know the person well enough to trust them with playing a turn or more?

I would be wary of someone who just appears out of nowhere (new member or inactive team member) and wants the job.

In the C3C world, since it was PBEM, the Turn Player could download the save and play it, while others (Turn Players in Training) could also download the save and play it and compare it to what the Official Turn. I don't know if pitboss would let us do the same thing or not.

we can take decisions in the forums but micro is very important...and obviously we cannot go through every small detail here as the game progresses..
Oh, yes we can. :D We are only playing one turn at a time.

I don't say it has to be me commando...You don't trust me that is fine...

But it HAS to be an experienced player...getting someone who is playing medium levels against ai to do the turn player it is with 100% certainty that we will be ages behind more experienced teams before we know it.

I know because I have been there...playing with ai at medium levels..and after 2 years of multiplayer I can tell you the gap is huge...

This might sound aroggant but it is how things are..

The clock on this game will be 24 hours...you think the turn player will post here every single detail, every day and we will come to an agreemet here on what he will do?

I don't think so..... strategic choices will be made here....micro will be left to the turn player and all those who log in the game and see what is going on...

What do we mean by 'experienced'?? Is high-level (Emperor+up ?)single player good enough or do we need people with multiplayer experience too...?

I don't say it has to be me commando...You don't trust me that is fine...

I am willing to trust you as Turn Player since you have experience with the game. But I do disagree with you on some points. I can trust you completely and still disagree with you. :D

But it HAS to be an experienced player...getting someone who is playing medium levels against ai to do the turn player it is with 100% certainty that we will be ages behind more experienced teams before we know it.

I know because I have been there...playing with ai at medium levels..and after 2 years of multiplayer I can tell you the gap is huge...

This might sound aroggant but it is how things are..

Yes, but you are talking about solo mp games. This is a team effort and that does make a difference.

My first SG was C3C SGOTM 09. I had one (1) Monarch win at that point; everything else was at Chieftain. But I was part of the team and the team helped me become a better player by helping me and instructing me.

At some point a weaker player will be the Turn Player and it is our job to help that person avoid mistakes. At some point in the game I expect to be Turn Player for a bit. I am going to have to rely on my teammates to help me do a good job for the team.

The clock on this game will be 24 hours...you think the turn player will post here every single detail, every day and we will come to an agreemet here on what he will do?

I don't think so..... strategic choices will be made here....micro will be left to the turn player and all those who log in the game and see what is going on...
I really don't see any reason that the Turn Player could not post every single detail, especially early in the game. The game logs a lot of stuff anyway. And since the Turn Player is going to post a log of what they do on the turn anyway, so that we don't have to log into the game to see what has occurred, I'm sure that they are going to include their reasons for their actions in the log.

True, as our empire grows we may not want to know which citizens are working which tile in each city. :eek:

Note: In Team FREE our turn logs are several posts. One post on our current status, listing city information, resources connected to the capital, military strength and so on. Second post deals with the unit activity of the turn; who moved where and did what. Progress on worker turns is tracked in this post. Also in this post the Turn Player explains the high points of the turn; rushing builds, changes to the Science rate and things like that. The next three posts are screen shots from different parts of the game.

And yes, it is tedious (especially the first time!), but it is complete. A new person to our team could take one look at these turn logs and have a very good idea of the state of our empire. (How I wish that Team KISS in C3C MTDG I had been that wise. I came into the game late and was unsure about many things for a long time.)

We didn't decide to have logs that complete. It just got that way as the game progressed. I liked it, but I didn't start it or ask for it.

Note 2: I hope I am not sounding harsh or mean spirited. That is not my intent. I am trying to explain and to do that I must use examples from my past.

Ok...from my part I will do my best to help from any role...

I realize there are not many multiplayer players here.....so it will be even more interesting to exchange ideas...mix it up and see how it goes...


Lets have fun :)

I have experience of both single and multi player, including hosting a PitBoss game.

In BTS my strengths are Diplomacy and Espionage. I can micromanage pretty well too.

I think that it is a good idea to have some loose formal positions for overall management; finance, domestic, foreign and defence come immediately to mind- it will be more likely to keep people involved - with the understanding that anyone can contribute in any area.

Also, with the idea of keeping people involved, we could have team members assigned to individual cities as governors for micromanagement, again with the understanding that anyone could contribute.

Ok...from my part I will do my best to help from any role...

I realize there are not many multiplayer players here.....so it will be even more interesting to exchange ideas...mix it up and see how it goes...


Lets have fun :)
Not a problem. Let the exchanges begin!

I have experience of both single and multi player, including hosting a PitBoss game.

In BTS my strengths are Diplomacy and Espionage. I can micromanage pretty well too.

I think that it is a good idea to have some loose formal positions for overall management; finance, domestic, foreign and defence come immediately to mind- it will be more likely to keep people involved - with the understanding that anyone can contribute in any area.

Also, with the idea of keeping people involved, we could have team members assigned to individual cities as governors for micromanagement, again with the understanding that anyone could contribute.
It is my understanding that Civ IV games typically have fewer cities than C3C. This sounds like a good way to pick up some MM skills along the way, too.

The clock on this game will be 24 hours...you think the turn player will post here every single detail, every day and we will come to an agreemet here on what he will do?

I don't think so..... strategic choices will be made here....micro will be left to the turn player and all those who log in the game and see what is going on...

Ok I'm not sure how pit boss works. Does this 24 hour clock mean all teams must play a turn within 24 hours of the first team or within 24 hours of the team before them? If it's the latter then we won't have to make decisions every day. It could be as long as five days between our turns.

Ok I'm not sure how pit boss works. Does this 24 hour clock mean all teams must play a turn within 24 hours of the first team or within 24 hours of the team before them? If it's the latter then we won't have to make decisions every day. It could be as long as five days between our turns.

The latter. The former would be the case if this were a Simulataneous PitBoss game. But we are using Sequential turns, which means 24 hours for each team. :)

Hi everybody. I've been out of touch but here I am.

My potential roles:

-Turnplayer: I'm not certain I'm technically up to date so it's better for everybody that I stay clear of this
-Diplomats: I don't know anybody
-BeanCounter: I'm competitve at emperor so I guess I could play this role. I do it in my head so I never used an excel sheet for that (it's a game for me you know...)
-Dreamer: I'm pretty good at forcasting my city layout 5 or 6 city in advance while squeezing a wonder between 3 and 4
Idiot: Everybody is good at that

Hi everybody. I've been out of touch but here I am.

Welcome to the forum Herviov!

:dance: :banana: :woohoo: :cheers:

You probably have no idea what you signed up for, but don't feel bad. No one else does either! :lol: This is my third MTDG, first at Civ IV, and this pregame phase is so very different from my last one.

As you can see, we are still trying to decide many things about our team; even our team name and Civ Leader. donsig and classical_hero have been part of MTDGs in the Civ III world; I don't know about Civ IV. I don't know if we have anyone here from MTDG I - Civ IV or not.

Remember, there is no such thing as a stupid question. (But try not to set yourself up for a smart-aleck answer :crazyeye:).

I don't have BTS so I wont be able to play turns.

That said, I am experienced with Civ 4 multiplayer and expect me a to be a constant advocate of warfare.

I think a semi-loose game fits the format here, with a leadership of three people (we should never have more positions than an eight of our members), just to make sure all bases are covered and we got some structure.

Provo, long time no see my old TNT friend! :)

SO, who are the candidates for turnplayer? I expect we'll be needing one soon.

Good to see you too Donsig :) I was in the US backing Obama, by the way, to get in the good graces there :)

Most urgently, who is going to do turn 1? we need a screenshot of what the warrior finds and that to be fed back to the rest of the team before we build with the settler

Just an FYI, I started this thread, Turns 0 to 10 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=300738), as a place to record/log/post/discuss what we do on these turns.

Just an FYI, I started this thread, Turns 0 to 10 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=300738), as a place to record/log/post/discuss what we do on these turns.

Should we start having our planning discussions there now or is that thread intended as an historical record of our actual moves? I think the latter should be in a single thread for the entire game. We can do the minute planning in threads chopped up in ten turn units, while we continue to discuss overall strategy in the game plan thread.

Keep the planning out of the turn log and leave it in the Gamrplan therad. We don't want to clutter the turn log with non-essential or unused thoughts.

It seems the game has started...we need to appoint a turn player and strart playing our turns..

It seems the game has started...we need to appoint a turn player and strart playing our turns..

Is it possible for someone (anyone) to move our warrior as planned (NW?) and post a screenie? Actually, if there are no new resources in view after the warrior moves we can just build the capital where we are, start a worker (work the corn tile?) and begin researching agriculture.

I cannot do this - no BtS.

Is it possible for someone (anyone) to move our warrior as planned (NW?) and post a screenie? Actually, if there are no new resources in view after the warrior moves we can just build the capital where we are, start a worker (work the corn tile?) and begin researching agriculture.

I cannot do this - no BtS.

I agree, we move the warrior NW, if there is nothing interesting there we settle in place, build worker and farm the corn whilst building a workboat.

I am happy to trust the initial turn player to move the warrior around for scouting according to their best judgement so we can get the first few rounds over quickly.

So who is going to do the turns!!! I have some availability this afternoon unusually (I'm actually off work sick!)

I would say go on and move the warrior...then post a screen if you find resources or just settle if you don't...

I agree, go for it Kaleb.

Seems like there is a server issues at the moment, so no game just now (no connection, if I understand the thread correctly).

I think that we need to elect a leader/turn player. I am happy to be considered for this. After that we need the leader to choose a deputy. That should be all we need for now.

I think for the first turn we should just get it done as soon as possible. Kaleb, Bolkonski, anyone who can do it. Let's get the game rolling so we do not earn the hard feelings of other teams already! We can have a formal election soon if need be.

Done! I'll post a screeshot.

Bolkonski's already logged in and I think we are all clear of what to do in the first few turns.

But can we stick to ONE thread please for discussing ongoing tactics!! otherwise it can get confusing.

Let's not use this thread to discuss any tactics or strategy, just team roles.

I am happy with the proposed candidates. I hope they deliver, and mobilize the team resources both for fun, entertainment, grand strategy, clever diplomacy and solidarity,

I think I will be somewhat of a secretary. I am not experienced enough for major game decisions, but I can haunt our forum and get formal proposals/votes drafted and put into a poll or thread. Maybe later on I will expand, but for now that seems like it is my role.

For now, according to what I have read, our semi-formal positions are like this:
Turnplayers: Kaleb and Bolkonski, possibly jksmp1 and Boko
Diplomats: CommandoBob and Provolution
"Strategists":everyone else

This is very loose and does not actually mean very much. If you don't want to do something just pipe up.

Thanks Jimmy369! Could you edit in Bolkonski's screenshot into your turn 1 post in the turn log?

Perhaps CommandoBob and Provolution can play good cop/bad cop with the other teams if the situation ever calls for it. There might be times when we want to stall, lead another team on, or give a false impression of discord. It's much easier to baffle opponents and obfuscate when more than one person is involved in the mix ;)

Oh and i'm patched up now and able to play btw (I logged on right after Bolkonski and checked everything out).

Good cop or bad cop is one scenario we can surely play, or confused twins, or the two headed troll another one could be yin and yang, and finally, we got the two obedient clerks that stumble in hard terminology.

Turnplayers: Kaleb and Bolkonski, possibly jksmp1 and Boko

I am up for running turns - at least while it is fairly easy. I will check when I am online to see if it is our turn and Bolkonski and Kaleb are not online. I will also try to keep a Saved Game of the current known map - so we can run tests on our next moves, builds, and cities.

Jeff

Good cop/bad cop; sober/insane; Zack Addy/Jack Hodgins; Little Oprhan Annie/Little Annie Fannie. Can do, if we need to.

But until we meet our neighbors, :sleep: