This is a to-do list for small bugs/fixes that people have reported or that clearly need to be done. Feel free to post additional suggestions in this thread and we'll make sure we get to them. Major balancing issues should be discussed in their respective threads.

Sedna's to-do list:
Make colors consistent between settler/war map.
UP of the Venetians is: the power of tade
Dutch Spawn date is incorrect
The autospread of missionaries function isn't working.
When a city is captured, the event log says [City] has been captured by the [noun]. It should be adjective.
Map Making has the artwork/text for Computers
Add preferred civics to civs

Done:
Move Sweden's spawn area north to not include Scania.
Mounted infantry gets the +3 xp bonus from barracks; does not get a +2 for mounted units (despite being counted as a mounted unit for offense/defense purposes vs. spearmen)
Add new unit: Dragoon
Fix Genoa AIWars map
Fix Cordoban/Arab Settler map
Remove -1 unhappy/military from Common Law due to potential human exploit
Change Serfdom to +1 hammer from farm?
Cordoba should have a different audio file for the garden (maybe the aqueduct or jungle sound) instead of the coliseum sound.
Add new building: Tavern
Modify effects of swamp on movement/health?
Make sure you can't "discover" Aluminum, Uranium, etc.
Give wind/watermills and workshops improvements later in the tech tree (or with civics)
Remove forest chop for mines and watermills.
-All units seem to be able to pass through marsh.
-Make sheep luxury
-Tamp down early city growth
Make long/crossbows upgrade to Line Infantry
Fix TXT in "We love the" and on getting Free Peasantry/Merchant Republic tehcs.
Move Open Borders up to MapMaking
Move TechTrading up to Monasticism
Add scout and spy
Berber horse upgrades to Heavy Cavalry
Pikeman upgrades to swiss pikes
Bows doesn't upgrade to guns (same as RFC. Convince me otherwise if you want)
Make Winged Hussar better than the knight it replaces
Increase ship movement (doubled, too fast?)

I will add my part to it. For right now:

-Improve some dynamical memory issues to hopefully speed up the game.
-Rebalance Stability, right now it is as if it doesn't exit, especially the economical part.
-Move the prosecutor AI to XML (as a tag that marks a unit as a prosecutor).
-Code the "war against brothers in faith" effect.
-Dynamical Indy and Barb spawns.

Add technologies for the Swedes and the Dutch.

Cattania appears to have been placed on a peak

Cattania appears to have been placed on a peak

I will fix that.

EDIT

Catania moved to 57/56

Calaris moved to 49/51

I will add my part to it. For right now:

-Improve some dynamical memory issues to hopefully speed up the game.
-Rebalance Stability, right now it is as if it doesn't exit, especially the economical part.
-Move the prosecutor AI to XML (as a tag that marks a unit as a prosecutor).
-Code the "war against brothers in faith" effect.
-Dynamical Indy and Barb spawns.

-New CityNames map for Moscow and Kievan Rus (which I will do if noone else wants to).
-Enable earlier open borders and technology trading

Add technologies for the Swedes and the Dutch.

Techs were assigned, there was a bug, fixed for the next version.

Yes OB and Tech trading is important, sedna17 please :)

Techs were assigned, there was a bug, fixed for the next version.

Yes OB and Tech trading is important, sedna17 please :)


A quick report on the new version. A couple of things. Cattania is on a mountain top. Can it move 1 tile west please. (my fault but no mts. on excel map)
Also Toulouse should move 1 tile north-east away from the mts. (again my fault)
And Caen in Corsica should read Ajaccio. Sorry. Aside from that it looks great.

A quick report on the new version. A couple of things. Cattania is on a mountain top. Can it move 1 tile west please. (my fault but no mts. on excel map)
Also Toulouse should move 1 tile north-east away from the mts. (again my fault)
And Caen in Corsica should read Ajaccio. Sorry. Aside from that it looks great.

Let's just take Ajacco off. If Genoa wants to build it, fine - but it was never very large or important, and if it spawns as an independent, we'll be representing it as though it were (and it'll get that way).

I'm not sure if this is included in "Fix Cordoban/Arab settler map", but, when the Cordobans conquer Barcelona, it's renamed to "^Barcino start". It should be Barshiluna (or Barshaluna, Bargiluna, or a few other options).

Techs were assigned, there was a bug, fixed for the next version.

Yes OB and Tech trading is important, sedna17 please :)

Okay, thanks. :D

In order to try to solve both the Italy problem and the disadvantages of the Burgundy start I've been playing about with Worldbuilder and come up with this solution. Don't worry about the Italian cities. They're not supposed to belong to Burgundy.;)

The way I see it, Dijon would flip Lyon and Bale. Genoa would flip Milano, Pisa and maybe Firenze.
While Venice would flip Verona. That would balance those 2 out a bit. What do people think?

@3Miro. Note that Milano has moved. Also be careful that Pisa is on the coast. The excel map differs slightly from the WB save. These are the new coordinates:
Lyon 46/36
Bale 51/34
Milano 53/38
Verona 56/38
Pisa 53/42
Firenze 55/43

The Italian cities are very tightly built. If you're going to have so many cities, you'll need a lot more resources there, too.

Also, I don't think Milan should flip to Genoa. Historically the four major powers of northern Italy were Venice, Genoa, Florence and Milan. Milan and Florence should start independent and have to be conquered. However, Genoa should probably have a city on Corsica that flips to it immediately (called Cardo before the flip, but Bastia thereafter).

I agree that north Italy needs more resources.

I also like the idea of Independent Milan and Florence.

I agree that north Italy needs more resources.

I also like the idea of Independent Milan and Florence.

I agree with both comments. We can leave out Verona and keep Milan where it is now (latest test version). I wasn't pressing for Pisa at all. It's just that others were keen on it. I'm happy to leave it out. Then we'd have a much better spread of cities. Not nearly so crowded. Same with a barb or indy on Corsica. I'd leave that too so it flips to Genoa.

Milan and Florence should probably spawn with Catholicism, then (in 500 AD). Same with Marseilles, actually, which should be called Massilia until conquered by Frankia or Burgundy.

A minor problem needs dealing with here

Edit: When Spain captures these two Pampalonas they become San Sebastien and Vitoria

Fixed for the next version (probably in a week). If you want, you can open the WB file (make a backup copy first), search for Pamplona and delete the line at the y=36 (just the stuff between beginCity and endcity, including).

Just downloaded the latest version (Nov21). Nice terrain changes but noticed some odd things with the indy cities. Can I suggest some changes for next time?

Screenshot 1 - not sure what this is. Wrong coordinates? Caen should be NE of Paris on the coast.

Screenshot 2 - Same again near Barcelona. Tours? Also Bordeaux and Toulouse out of place.
My mistake I think. I've landmarked the correct locations. Also for Pamplona.

Screenshot 3 - Tours should be SW of Paris as I've landmarked.

Burgundy area and Italy look just fine now though, I think.

It was a coordinate issues, some of the coordinates were wrong, taken from the excel with the row number as opposed to the number in the first column. Some were wrong some I guess were fine, but I changed a lot of cities without much research. (Tunisia IIRC was in Denmark for example)

The Italian cities are very tightly built. If you're going to have so many cities, you'll need a lot more resources there, too.

Also, I don't think Milan should flip to Genoa. Historically the four major powers of northern Italy were Venice, Genoa, Florence and Milan. Milan and Florence should start independent and have to be conquered. However, Genoa should probably have a city on Corsica that flips to it immediately (called Cardo before the flip, but Bastia thereafter).


There'll be a lot more resources in Italy than there currently are, don't worry.

I agree that Milan should stay independent, and I like the new placement better.

I disagree about having a city in Corsica to begin with. Corsica's within their core area, and they'll start with ships and settlers - but if we have an independent city on Corsica, unless it spawns 1 turn before Genoa does, it's going to be much bigger and more important than it would have been otherwise, and given that Genoa will be competing with Milan and Pisa for resources and food, it may outstrip the home city. Potentially problematic.

Jessiecat, I'd suggest moving Florence one more tile eastwards. That provides both cities with more breathing room, and it's not much of a stretch geographically.

I'll fix the rivers and resources as soon as I can get the mod running, which will hopefully be tomorrow.

There'll be a lot more resources in Italy than there currently are, don't worry.

I agree that Milan should stay independent, and I like the new placement better.

I disagree about having a city in Corsica to begin with. Corsica's within their core area, and they'll start with ships and settlers - but if we have an independent city on Corsica, unless it spawns 1 turn before Genoa does, it's going to be much bigger and more important than it would have been otherwise, and given that Genoa will be competing with Milan and Pisa for resources and food, it may outstrip the home city. Potentially problematic.

Jessiecat, I'd suggest moving Florence one more tile eastwards. That provides both cities with more breathing room, and it's not much of a stretch geographically.

I'll fix the rivers and resources as soon as I can get the mod running, which will hopefully be tomorrow.

I'm happy with Florence moving east as long as it doesn't end up on the Adriatic as a naval rival to Venice. That would be wrong. I could go either way on Corsica. Its up to 3Miro. Regarding wrong placement of cities, I've already addressed that some hours ago. (see post 19 above). I do agree on Freiburg though. I had it as Basle, 1 tile to the west.

I'm happy with Florence moving east as long as it doesn't end up on the Adriatic as a naval rival to Venice. That would be wrong. I could go either way on Corsica. Its up to 3Miro. Regarding wrong placement of cities, I've already addressed that some hours ago. (see post 19 above). I do agree on Freiburg though. I had it as Basle, 1 tile to the west.

My mistake, I missed the screenshots there. Sorry about that.

I'll post an updated WBS with cities and resources later today.

Minor issues:

-Map Making has the artwork/text for Computers
-Mounted infantry gets the +3 xp bonus from barracks; does not get a +2 for mounted units (despite being counted as a mounted unit for offense/defense purposes vs. spearmen)
-Lyon is renamed Valence when captured by Burgundy
-Lots of TXT errors - low priority to fix
-All units seem to be able to pass through marsh.
-Lumber mills are available from the beginning, as are windmills and watermills. It seems like they should be available with later techs - windmills and watermills with machinery, lumber mills later still.
-Timber doesn't have an improvement associated with it yet. Lumber mills seem like the most appropriate improvement.
-As we have a number of food/health resources already, I'm going to suggest moving sheep into the luxury resource category to represent wool. They can still give a food bonus, but there are a lot of food bonuses on the map.
-Cities are growing big early, in part because there isn't a whole lot of other stuff to do with the food.
-Kiev's capital/starting city is Khabarovsk. That doesn't seem right.
-Somehow a barbarian lion has spawned on one of the Balearic islands, and it hasn't disappeared as animals sometimes do.

I disagree about having a city in Corsica to begin with. Corsica's within their core area, and they'll start with ships and settlers - but if we have an independent city on Corsica, unless it spawns 1 turn before Genoa does, it's going to be much bigger and more important than it would have been otherwise, and given that Genoa will be competing with Milan and Pisa for resources and food, it may outstrip the home city. Potentially problematic.

Only if Corsica has the resources to support a major city, which it shouldn't. Just Wine and maybe a Fish or Clams tile within reach is all any city on Corsica should have access to within its BFC--which means it's not likely to be very productive or grow quickly. Corsica is not exactly resource-rich.

The city could spawn in 800 AD to prevent it from growing from the very beginning.

I finally managed to download and play a bit.
With Venice start, I didn't see Verona anywhere, and couldn't build it because of Milan's borders (even declaring war I couldn't... I think I should have been able to though).
I think north Italy should be crowdy but also resourceful, Pisa should flip to Genoa and Verona to Venice, while Milan and Florence should stay indipendent. Also I would remove the ability to raze.
Lastly, in case you don't know it Venice uses the default Roman city list when founding cities, at least when I play it.

I have also played in Spain where I found corn, 2 indipendent cities were next to each other (Vitoria and San Sebastian if I'm not wrong) at every start, La Coruna is named A Coruna, and the location of Sevilla needs some love (food is lacking). The rest looks perfect in Spain

I finally managed to download and play a bit.
With Venice start, I didn't see Verona anywhere, and couldn't build it because of Milan's borders (even declaring war I couldn't... I think I should have been able to though).
I think north Italy should be crowdy but also resourceful, Pisa should flip to Genoa and Verona to Venice, while Milan and Florence should stay indipendent. Also I would remove the ability to raze.
Lastly, in case you don't know it Venice uses the default Roman city list when founding cities, at least when I play it.

I have also played in Spain where I found corn, 2 indipendent cities were next to each other (Vitoria and San Sebastian if I'm not wrong) at every start, La Coruna is named A Coruna, and the location of Sevilla needs some love (food is lacking). The rest looks perfect in Spain

We decided not to include Verona if we were keeping Pisa and Firenze. You need to use the latest version incl. st.lucifers fixes (file thread). Italy looks pretty good now. Though maybe you could redo a CityNames map we could use for both Venice and Genoa. I'm sure you're as sick as I am of seeing Cumae cropping up as a default name. Also Spain has been fixed. Britain too.

Will see if I understand how to do it ^^

While playing a game as Burgundy, I saw Cordoba build Toledo, 3 squares East and 1 South of Toledo (which is still independant).

While playing a game as Burgundy, I saw Cordoba build Toledo, 3 squares East and 1 South of Toledo (which is still independant).

The CityNames and AI Settler maps for Iberia need some fixing.

Errors observed in game as Germany:
-both shipbuilding and steam engine give a +50% worker speed bonus.
-scientific method enables the laboratory from standard civ.
-steam engine enables levee, which was not going to be included in our mod. The Dutch dike, which replaces the aqueduct, was meant to have the levee function.
-Weird messages: Poland has declared war on Poland! (actually on the Norse); Hungary has become a vassal of Hungary (actually Bulgaria); Hungary has renounced the protection of Hungary and is now a free state; Venezia has renounced the protection of Venezia (actually Byzantines) and is now a free state.
-Dense forest provides no hammers. If we're cutting the food (definitely appropriate), we might make it produce 1 hammer so it isn't completely useless.
-Religious prosecutors seem very cheap to build. I'd advocate making them at least twice as expensive.
-I get the second Thessalonica 2 tiles south of Hadrianopolis too.
-Venice is building cities in the Balkans SE of Beograd, while ignoring Ragusa and Italy.
-All units except for UUs can pass through marsh.
-Clicking on the open book button next to the mercenary button generates an error which crashes the game.

that's the message list button that you can also open with ctrl-tab.
RE: marshes. If marshes are impassable then Venice should start with a Galley.
RE: Venice. The version I played didn't have Verona to flip, I started with strong indipendent borders on every side: Milan, central italian indies, Graz. Also, there are practically no resources around except for food ones, which makes the land not quite desirable. And even if, there is no iron around that Venice can use, leaving it a bit screwed if it had to conquer indies. I suggest removing Graz and let Venice colonize the Istrian area. Ragusa is also an uniteresting area.

that's the message list button that you can also open with ctrl-tab.
RE: marshes. If marshes are impassable then Venice should start with a Galley.
RE: Venice. The version I played didn't have Verona to flip, I started with strong indipendent borders on every side: Milan, central italian indies, Graz. Also, there are practically no resources around except for food ones, which makes the land not quite desirable. And even if, there is no iron around that Venice can use, leaving it a bit screwed if it had to conquer indies. I suggest removing Graz and let Venice colonize the Istrian area. Ragusa is also an uniteresting area.

Actually in the latest version Graz isn't there anymore. I'm playing them now and have done what you suggested. I added a galley and trireme and a couple of units, founded Zadar and later conquered Ragusa. I also added iron to the Istrian peninsula and horses near Zadar. Doing quite well now.(see screenshot).

Though maybe you could redo a CityNames map we could use for both Venice and Genoa. I'm sure you're as sick as I am of seeing Cumae cropping up as a default name. Also Spain has been fixed. Britain too.

Ok I give up... which files do I need to check in order to do this ?

-I get the second Thessalonica 2 tiles south of Hadrianopolis too.


I have seen the 2nd Thessalonica built in southern Italy. It must be the default name used for the Byzantines

Ok I give up... which files do I need to check in order to do this ?

You can download Sedna's latest version and replace the RFCEurope folder with it, or you can download my zipped WBS and play from there.

Ok I give up... which files do I need to check in order to do this ?

The important file is the RFCEMaps.py file in the python directory.

I would like to help here too, but what do these numbers mean (eg. 0,2,4,6, etc.). Are they important for the citiy lists?

don't know, that file makes sense only for a few civs, and for those fews I spotted several errors.

Thanks for your interest in helping with the maps. If someone is relatively computer savvy, here's what you need to know:

As mentioned, RFCEMaps.py in the Assets/Python directory of the download is the relevant file. The first third (roughly) are called Settler Maps. These maps tell the AI where to settle. The second third (starting at line 1568) are War Maps. These are just even numbers. If a portion of Nation A's non-zero War map is controlled by Nation B then Nation A is more likely to go to war with Nation B. Higher values mean more likely to go to war. The third third (starting at line 3126) are Name Maps, these maps control what a city founded by Nation Z on site X,Y is called. Each nation has both a Settler Map and a Name Map.

These three maps have different formats. Please keep the names of the three sorts of maps straight as well. One thing that anyone can do is copy and paste, for instance, a Settler Map for one nation into a spreadsheet program. If you do this for a big Settler Map (Byzantium works well) you'll see the outlines of the coast.

For the Settler Map, 20 is the default value, 3 means "Don't settler there, for the love of god!", and higher values: 150, 200, 300, 400, 500, 700 are just increasing desirable places to be settled.

For the Name Map, "-1" is the empty value, and the city names are obviously city names, also in quotes like "Paris". Ideally accents are in html escape format. So Jaén becomes Jaén.

My plan is to provide some easy scripts to facilitate transfer from these lists into and out of spreadsheets or WBS format. Some partial examples of such scripts are available at the wiki http://wikirhye.wikidot.com/rhyes-of-europe but these are a little out of date and cumbersome. If anyone is able to write such scripts themselves, you naturally have my blessing. Otherwise, I hope to get to this tomorrow (Tuesday) evening or Wednesday.

thanks for the explanation sedna. That script would be really useful otherwise it's going to take ages to figure out what I'm doing :D

Something I don't understand though: if I understood correctly, the -1 one values in the second part mean that the default name for that tile shouldn't be changed when settled/conquered by this particular civ. Where's the default name listed though ?

A further observation on the apiary/cottage issue: In my game as Turkey, the Arabians are building apiaries in places where they would ordinarily be building cottages (where no honey is available). Perhaps the improvements have been moved out of sequence in the same way the terrain was?

Oddly enough, I am unable to build apiaries in the same fashion - there must be honey present for me to do it.

thanks for the explanation sedna. That script would be really useful otherwise it's going to take ages to figure out what I'm doing :D

Something I don't understand though: if I understood correctly, the -1 one values in the second part mean that the default name for that tile shouldn't be changed when settled/conquered by this particular civ. Where's the default name listed though ?

The default name list for each Civ (used only if they settle outside their Name Map) is in Assets/XML/Civilizations/CIV4Civilizations.xml. This file shouldn't be too hard to understand. Technically, the city names in this file are only references to some other file which contains the "real" name. This is normally done in generic Civ to facilitate translations of city names into the player's local language (London -> Londres) I believe. I recommend we don't bother with these fallback lists until the City Name maps are much more complete.

Do people have a preference for how to work with City Name maps? I can either have you put city names into comments in a spreadsheet (where the background color of cells would show the map in a crude form) or have you put city names on "signs/markers" in WorldBuilder. The WorldBuilder option lets you see the map in more detail of course, but might be more tedious for doing a lot of work. Ideally I'd support both modes, but I may prioritize one mode, so comment if you care.

A further observation on the apiary/cottage issue: In my game as Turkey, the Arabians are building apiaries in places where they would ordinarily be building cottages (where no honey is available). Perhaps the improvements have been moved out of sequence in the same way the terrain was?

Oddly enough, I am unable to build apiaries in the same fashion - there must be honey present for me to do it.

Whacky. Can I get pics of this phenomena? It might help me diagnose the bug.

Whacky. Can I get pics of this phenomena? It might help me diagnose the bug.

Even better, I'll post the savegame.

Updated resource and terrain map in files thread.

The default name list for each Civ (used only if they settle outside their Name Map) is in Assets/XML/Civilizations/CIV4Civilizations.xml.

for example, Burgundy has "-1" for the tile of Trapani. This means the name of the city they might found there wouldn't change. So if they do settle there (unlikely, I know) the city name will be taken from the xml ? I thought there was a default one specific to the map.

as for working on the city maps, I'm fine with both solutions you proposed, I'd rather pick the simpler for you to implement (I guess spreadsheet) than for me to use (wbs).

I've noticed in multiple games that Genoa and Venice often will build a city and the name will show up as Cumae.

I've noticed in multiple games that Genoa and Venice often will build a city and the name will show up as Cumae.

I have seen this as well. I have also seen the Italian independent cities crying out to rejoin their homeland! But of course they HAVE no homeland.

I have seen this as well. I have also seen the Italian independent cities crying out to rejoin their homeland! But of course they HAVE no homeland.

They think they do.:lol:

Seriously. I had this in my recent game as Venice. After taking Firenze and Pisa they were in constant revolt every few turns until I bribed them with lots of culture buildings. I think its because they are coded as the same team, ie. Independent 1 or Independent 2 which you can see if you check in the civ list in WB. Or maybe they just had an election and voted in Rome as their capitol. Who knows what they get up to behind your back.;)

Hey guys,

Here's where I am at on making it easy for people to contribute City Name Maps.

I decided that it was probably easiest for people to work in WorldBuilder to get city names in the right places. I have written some simple scripts to completely automate the process of getting CityName maps from the python into signs/landmarks which will appear when you open up WorldBuilder within a game and the reverse. So far, so good.

The problem is with accents. I have some transferring accented characters between WorldBuilder and the python program. I'm going to give it another shot, 'cause I assume people are averse to entering accents at HTML entities (see here). (http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/entities/latin1.html)

I think the chance to work with WBS is already a great present Sedna, it shouldn't be such a bother for people to use html codes for accents (which won't be so many, after all). Thanks a lot.

This might belong in resources and terrain, but we may want to remove the aluminum/uranium/other unused resources from the mod entirely, if this is possible. In a game as Burgundy, I randomly discovered deposits of aluminum and uranium in France in the same turn. Those are some lucky mines!

One minor, low priority fix to think about - do we want to switch the artwork on the market and grocer as originally intended? (In the city build screen, the little icons for market and grocer are backwards).

Hmmm, that grocer/market artwork is odd. I dunno, I think people are used to it this way.

A couple of fixes come to mind, esp. concerning independents.

Can we tone down the teching and miltary production of indies a bit? If you let them develop too much past the early game they often out-tech the human player and have more advanced military units. In my last game the indies were the first to Liberalism and had gunpowder units to everybody else's crossbows.

Are these independent cities really independent are just part of some grand alliance? It seems that if you attack one of them all the rest attack you. I'm sick of stacks of 6 or 8 heavy crossbowmen rampaging about and trashing resource improvements. They're worse than barbs as all they do is produce military units. Don't they have production costs like the rest of us?

Why do all the AI players DOW on you when you get a UHV condition, esp. with your second one?

How can the Norse ever reach the ocean tiles in the Black Sea to fulfill the 3rd. UHV condition if the Byzantines will never agree to open borders with you? I've always thought a caravel could pass thru a city tile just as they pass thru all other tiles without needing an OB. Apparently not.

The Genoa UHV is still broken as control of the required areas is not recognized.

And can we change it so the AI civs stop demanding that you adopt Paganism every few turns? It's really annoying. Don't they ever change civics?

@sedna 17. Any thoughts on the above points?

There is no solution to the independents being part of a great alliance. A help would be in we make Rome not independent, since the indies get large bonuses from that city. We should also put high tech cost for them. I will do that.

I don't know about the AI, presumably it is in the AI to dislike people who are about the win the game, but still.

Norse can: trade maps or quickly build a city on the Black Sea coast. They has some cities on the Balkans once (I don't think they were on the BS coast however).

Civs need favorite civics, right now they all like Paganism.

If you don't adopt a religion, you can get OB with the Byzantines. Still, I htink it would be better if you removed ocean tiles form the BS entirely in order to make the Norse UHV less tedious.

But then that Norse UHV is trivial. If only there were some good way to simulate the Norse trading down along the rivers of Russia into the Black Sea...

But then that Norse UHV is trivial. If only there were some good way to simulate the Norse trading down along the rivers of Russia into the Black Sea...

IMO, the Norse UHV should not include the Black Sea. I don't recall reading anything about Viking raiding parties terrorizing the black sea in my history books.
If the AI were not so quick to trade maps, I would offer that the Norse need to have explored the most territory by a certain time.

Otherwise, I would be fine with all ocean tiles (some being in the Med) as long as it doesn't include the Black Sea.

The discovery UHV is related to trade not conquest (the other UHVs have "conquest" part in them). The idea is for the Norse is to establish some sort of trade/influence in the area. They did trade with the Black Sea nations.

For the Norse to achieve the victory, they have to either OB with Byzantium, Conquer Constantinople, send a settler early on to Crimea (by land) or trade maps with Bulgaria/Byzantium/Kiev.

We should make it so that Orthodox and Catholic nations have lower "hated religion" diplomatic penalties. That way even a catholic Norse could OB with Byzantium.

When I achieved the Norse UHV several versions ago, I did it with an open border agreement with the Byz.

Another thought to represent trade would be for the Norse to secure XX number of Fur, or spice, or dye resouces by a certain time.

When I achieved the Norse UHV several versions ago, I did it with an open border agreement with the Byz.

Another thought to represent trade would be for the Norse to secure XX number of Fur, or spice, or dye resouces by a certain time.

I'd be in favour of another UHV condition as well. Especially a trade or luxury related one, as you suggest.
Similiar to the Dutch UHV in RFC.

I'd be in favour of another UHV condition as well. Especially a trade or luxury related one, as you suggest.
Similiar to the Dutch UHV in RFC.

Exactly my thought.

We could do fur, ivory, and gems, to represent the three luxury goods that they dominated trade in (gems = amber). This would require them to colonize Iceland, Orkney, and the coasts of Norway and the Baltic to fulfill, rather than just sitting in Denmark.

Sounds like historically realistic goal.

We could do fur, ivory, and gems, to represent the three luxury goods that they dominated trade in (gems = amber). This would require them to colonize Iceland, Orkney, and the coasts of Norway and the Baltic to fulfill, rather than just sitting in Denmark.

That sounds much better to me! Let's do it.

I wonder if it is possible to code, but say export fur, gems (amber) and ivory to 8 different nation in year X. Force not only obtaining the resources but also trading them.

I wonder if it is possible to code, but say export fur, gems (amber) and ivory to 8 different nation in year X. Force not only obtaining the resources but also trading them.

You'd be one of the ones to know whether or not it was possible, but I like that idea a lot. That could potentially be a real challenge - while all three resources are relatively rare, finding trading partners during wars can be difficult.
One small issue - can you get around that by simply giving them away for nothing?

You'd be one of the ones to know whether or not it was possible, but I like that idea a lot. That could potentially be a real challenge - while all three resources are relatively rare, finding trading partners during wars can be difficult.
One small issue - can you get around that by simply giving them away for nothing?

Until I see the code, I don't know. Ideally you would want to get something for those resources.

I wonder if it is possible to code, but say export fur, gems (amber) and ivory to 8 different nation in year X. Force not only obtaining the resources but also trading them.

I would tentatively say no. The code would definitely track the export of 8 of a resource, however I'm fairly certain it will not track what nations you export to.

I would tentatively say no. The code would definitely track the export of 8 of a resource, however I'm fairly certain it will not track what nations you export to.


Could we do 'export 12 (ivory, gems, furs in any combination) to foreign countries in ____AD'?

This could be achieved with as few as 4 trading partners, but seems likely to require more.

Could we do 'export 12 (ivory, gems, furs in any combination) to foreign countries in ____AD'?

This could be achieved with as few as 4 trading partners, but seems likely to require more.

I think the AI will not be motivated enough to acquire all those resources. Even the human player will be hard pushed to colonize Iceland, Orkney, Scotland, Ireland, Norway, Sweden and the Baltic coast to fulfill the first two
UHV conditions and secure a number of each resource. Maybe just acquiring 4 of each (12 total) would be a big enough challenge for now. Lets try that first. If it turns out too easy we can always factor in trade later, couldn't we?

12 is too many. Go with 8 for now, 10 if 8 is too easy.

A couple of odd little bugs to report from my latest game playing as Spain on Monarch.

1. The AI has decided to gift everyone the Shrine of Uppsala. Even though the Info Screen says noone has built it, the events log shows that has been built nearly a hundred times. All my coastal cities now have one and even though the Norse have only 4 cities the event log says they have built it 12 times. I include a screenshot of the events log and the saved game.

2. I have one timber resource which I need for ship building. But when I try to build a lumber mill on it that worker option doesn't appear on the screen even though I have the required tech, Replaceable Parts. Can I build a fort to gain access to that resource?

I encountered the same shrine of Uppsala alerts, but my coastal cities don't actually have Shrines built.

I encountered the same shrine of Uppsala alerts, but my coastal cities don't actually have Shrines built.

Yep, I've squashed that bug for the next release (tonight?). In fact, the Plague was spreading a dreadful case of Shrines of Uppsala instead of real plague. So these were "built" everywhere and then disappeared again when the plague was over.

That's actually kind of funny.

SIRE!!!! a plague of shrines have devastated our realm. Now the very seas are making our fishermen more productive.

Yep, I've squashed that bug for the next release (tonight?). In fact, the Plague was spreading a dreadful case of Shrines of Uppsala instead of real plague. So these were "built" everywhere and then disappeared again when the plague was over.

Copy and paste never ceases to amuse. :D

Bug with founding of Protestantism - just got to liberalism first as Venice; I also control Rome. I got the message 'Venice has completed St. Peter's Basilica!', and checked my cities - while there was still a St. Peter's in Rome, there was also a St. Peter's now in Florence, where Protestantism was founded. It's not clear whether or not I can build All Saints' Church yet, but I thought that was an interesting outcome.

Just been looking over the UHV and spawn maps included in the latest test version and I've found some problems and have made some suggestions.

UHV maps

1. Cordoba and Spain -Control of Iberia doesn't seem to require territory east of Pamplona or north of Valencia. The UHV area should include the Pyrenees IMO.

2. Kiev - Control of the Black Sea sea shouldn't include the Bulgaria spawn area. If we move the UHV area 3 tiles east it would solve that conflict.

3. Venice - Control of the Adriatic should mean the whole east coast. At present you could get the condition while someone else owns Ragusa. I'm sure that wasn't intended.

4. Bulgaria - Control of N. Greece/Macedonia should require an area 2 or 3 tiles south of where we have it, I think.

5. France - Control of historic France seems to include NW Spain, including potentially Barcelona and Zaragoza. I'm sure we didn't intend that.

Spawn Maps

1. If we intend to have Cordoba flip Tangier, the spawn area needs to expand 2 tiles west.

2. The Portugal spawn area should expand 2 tiles north to flip Porto/Braga and 1 tile south.

3. Germany's spawn area should extend 2 tiles south to flip Augsburg IMO.

4. The Ottoman spawn area should extend 2 tiles north to flip Sinope or any other city on the north coast.

5. The Kiev spawn area should expand 2 or 3 tiles south to prevent Bulgarian expansion too far north.

6. The Austrian and Dutch spawn areas should expand a tile in all directions if possible.

Good points, will get it fixed for the next test version.

Note the picture.

This really shouldn't happen, either increase Roma's defenders or decrease the barbarians nearby, also, how come I was only informed of it at the year 792 when it happened in 784?

Note the picture.

This really shouldn't happen, either increase Roma's defenders or decrease the barbarians nearby, also, how come I was only informed of it at the year 792 when it happened in 784?

Who destroyed them? Do you have a save game/log?

One city can hardly become so unstable as to die and noone can declare war on the Pope. Also the Pope cannot declare war so he is not supposed to go after the indies in Italy (I am not sure, post if something else is happening). Then the Pope has some strong defenders so he should be well protected against Barbs. Which one of the "shoulds" is not working?

The barbarians captured Rome. Also I saw some ruins of a city in northern Italy, close to the Venetians (they spawned after Rome was destroyed so it wasn't them). Is it an indy city or maybe the Pope settled there? Anyhow it must've been the barbs who razed the city and captured Rome after.

I will have to check on the Barbs that spawn near Rome. With a Heavy Crossbowman Rome should have no problem defending, maybe the stupid AI send the Crossbowman to explore or something (should also have pikeman). Maybe a great wall option will be suitable for the Pope.

Tried to load the new version. It is playable, but it reports an error. In the XML file xml\text\civ4gametextinfos_rfce_unitpedia.xml, the arquebus tag starts with <Enlgish> instead of <English>

Darn it-- you're right. I uploaded the wrong version (luckily that typo fix was literally the only thing). I'm replacing the file now, but hopefully anyone with the old version can figure out how that they just need to change that one tag to <English> with a text editor.

Very very minor reference issue: light red in the war maps means dark red in the settler maps and vice versa.

Good catch. It's on the list.

Since we are approaching the beta, we should think about the loading screen. Currently it is the regular RFC background giving Rhye's and Fall of Civilization and Rhye's name. While I think Rhye should be cited on the screen, I don't think that the background is appropriate. The background is an old map of both Americas.

We should find an image of an old mediaeval map of Europe. Maybe on of those distorted images showing Jerusalem in the center of the world.

Also, there are some sentences in the loading screen thingy which don't belong, like the one about entente being the French word for diplomatic understanding. After all the French don't have this unique power anymore. There may be others I'm forgetting.

Also, there are some sentences in the loading screen thingy which don't belong, like the one about entente being the French word for diplomatic understanding. After all the French don't have this unique power anymore. There may be others I'm forgetting.

Every now and then I would go in and change some of those, but unless sedna took care of it, there are more things to fix. The French comment at least refers to an European power, some of the comments about China, India embassies and congress no longer apply.

Hi out there, i hope its not the wrong choice to post this in this thread. Cause it seems a bug to me but maybe some hidden feature or something is causing it.

Right now i playing Bulgaria, and the Donaub is a fine place to spam some cottages. Fine so far, as i somehow noticed in the game: My cottages denie to grow :confused: So i take a look in the Civilopedia and there are some strange things i noticed about cottages, hamlets and so on. (all captured with screenshots but hamlet and above show the same behaviour about their grow)
Is there a tech needed to grow cottages or special civics? Couldn't find anything. :crazyeye:

There used to be a problem with the slower cottage growth. We had a fix for it, but since civics were changed recently we may have another one.

What civics are you using?

City raider knights - AI's worst nightmare.
Simple fix: Make mounted Infantry upgradeable to other type of infantry, NOT cavalry.

There used to be a problem with the slower cottage growth. We had a fix for it, but since civics were changed recently we may have another one.

What civics are you using?

Did a shot aswell (can't save the names in my head :lol:)
One civic is reducing growth rate, mb this causing the issue?

if i can find any spare time i may look up in the code but im too busy atm.

No it's not the civic, I tried switching to the double cottage growth rate civic, but the cottages still won't grow.

I've given the answer in the playtesting thread. Still, I find that cottages etc. grow very weirdly. 3 turns in a row 1 turn to grow, then 1 turn 0 turns to grow, and then it finally grows. That's why I prefer farms over cottages, farms are just as powerful and stable.

I've given the answer in the playtesting thread. Still, I find that cottages etc. grow very weirdly. 3 turns in a row 1 turn to grow, then 1 turn 0 turns to grow, and then it finally grows. That's why I prefer farms over cottages, farms are just as powerful and stable.

Due to the fact that no single cottage even considered in growing up i changed all to farmes, with my civics i get 1 hammer and 1 coin extra :goodjob: a cottage supports 1 food and 1 hammer less :lol: :crazyeye:

I've given the answer in the playtesting thread. Still, I find that cottages etc. grow very weirdly. 3 turns in a row 1 turn to grow, then 1 turn 0 turns to grow, and then it finally grows. That's why I prefer farms over cottages, farms are just as powerful and stable.

You're right about the improvement order in the XML -- that was my fault for putting the "Colonial Trade Route" in the wrong place. Re-ordering the improvements as you suggest here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7740167&postcount=685) should fix the problem and not introduce new ones. I will definitely make sure this bug is fixed in the next test version.

As for cottages growing slowly -- is this under the serfdom civic?

You're right about the improvement order in the XML -- that was my fault for putting the "Colonial Trade Route" in the wrong place. Re-ordering the improvements as you suggest here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7740167&postcount=685) should fix the problem and not introduce new ones. I will definitely make sure this bug is fixed in the next test version.

As for cottages growing slowly -- is this under the serfdom civic?

OK I was looking at it and I had hard time figuring out the growth thing. Good you figured it.

There is another problem which people might have missed from a discussion some time ago. This is entirely due to Firaxis, but when one wishes to slow or increase the growth of cottages for a specific Civic, there is too much rounding. I had a fix for it so that under serfdom cottages would grow as expected, however, the time for the growth would not display correctly.

I played a game of this (Burgundy) and it's quite fun. I can write Python and XML if you need anything of that sort coded.

Good to see volunteers.

Samsa was doing the spawn nation visibility regions, I don't know if he is still working on it. That is one thing that needs to be done.

Other than that there is not much Python for coding right now. There are changes that I need to make to the C++, but those are mine and you will have to ask sedna for the XML.

I put together a little to-do list page on the wiki, with the things that I could think of that need doing. Others should feel free to add things they think need to get done. These are mostly big tasks, not the small bugs/fixes this thread is for.

Anyhow, if people are able to volunteer for some of these tasks, that would be great. Some of them are relatively self-contained (i.e. Wonders or dynamic Civ-names) while others (i.e. Specialists) would require changing lots of files throughout the mod and would thus need to be minimally coordinated with the other modders in some way.

In general, volunteer to do something that you think sounds like fun, and if it's pretty self-contained, go to it.

Either walls are supposed to be like this IDK, or there is a small bug.
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z311/SHARPCLAW117/AlQudsWall.jpg
IMO, it is awesome.
Al Quds, btw
Also, I don't want to use up a post to ask this question, but besides the settler map, where can I find the best, historical city locations (my country now is Venetia)?

Either walls are supposed to be like this IDK, or there is a small bug.
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z311/SHARPCLAW117/AlQudsWall.jpg
IMO, it is awesome.
Al Quds, btw
Also, I don't want to use up a post to ask this question, but besides the settler map, where can I find the best, historical city locations (my country now is Venetia)?

The walls look strange to me, they look kinda broken. Maybe it is a bug.

BTW In my games as Venice, I have always built Venitia, Zadar, Ragusa then Durrazzo which are historically right. Of course you will later need one in Greece, Crete, Cyprus and Rhodes for the UHV.

I put together a little to-do list page on the wiki, with the things that I could think of that need doing. Others should feel free to add things they think need to get done. These are mostly big tasks, not the small bugs/fixes this thread is for.

Anyhow, if people are able to volunteer for some of these tasks, that would be great. Some of them are relatively self-contained (i.e. Wonders or dynamic Civ-names) while others (i.e. Specialists) would require changing lots of files throughout the mod and would thus need to be minimally coordinated with the other modders in some way.

In general, volunteer to do something that you think sounds like fun, and if it's pretty self-contained, go to it.

I've bumped up the revised list of wonders, projects and colonies to the last post of the Wonders thread. I've also done a bit of editing of the wiki and added a couple of suggestions to your list. A couple of questions though. How many Great People of each type do we have now and how many of each do you want for each civ? Do you really want new art and a quotation for each and every technology? Finally, what do you think of the art I posted for the colonies and crusades on the Files thread?:)

Please don't hate me, but I have found two more bugs(I think). One of them well... crawls pretty far (unless it just conquered an indi or barbi city):
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z311/SHARPCLAW117/BulgariaBug.jpg

And please don't tell me you can mine trees...
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z311/SHARPCLAW117/SpainMineBug.jpg.

Oh, by the way JCat, thanks for helping.

Please don't hate me, but I have found two more bugs(I think). One of them well... crawls pretty far (unless it just conquered an indi or barbi city):
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z311/SHARPCLAW117/BulgariaBug.jpg

And please don't tell me you can mine trees...
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z311/SHARPCLAW117/SpainMineBug.jpg.

Oh, by the way JCat, thanks for helping.

1. Bulgaria often sends one of its starting units deep into Russia and captures a barb city. It happens quite a lot. Don't worry. They'll lose it when the Mongol hordes turn up later.

2. Building a mine doesn't cut down the forest. It wouldn't in real life, would it? We did talk about this and decided it was best like that.

No problem with helping. Glad to be of service.::)

How many Great People of each type do we have now and how many of each do you want for each civ? Do you really want new art and a quotation for each and every technology? Finally, what do you think of the art I posted for the colonies and crusades on the Files thread?

I don't really know how many Great People names we need.

I think every technology should have 1) an appropriate button and 2) at least not a wrong quote. 1) isn't too hard. There are a lot of good buttons in other mods and in the downloads database, and new buttons aren't hard to make. 2) requires a few decisions. I don't want to have low-quality audio of quotes, but I wouldn't mind retaining Nimoy for quotes which can be reasonably re-used/re-assigned. For the rest, I think we should just have a text quote and generic "new tech" sound play.

The art for the colonies is good. I'll put it in the next version. I'm not sure how I feel about the crusades art. It's not really required, and rather specific for generic events - a little bit like giving each plague unique art.

I know we have discussed the mines in forest before, but really, mined iron on a forested hill is a ridiculously good square.

Also, I don't want to use up a post to ask this question, but besides the settler map, where can I find the best, historical city locations (my country now is Venetia)?

My city locations are not very historical, but powerful enough. If Ragusa has been destroyed already, I capture the wine, clam and timber with one city, and the other city gets barley, silver and sheep. This means only 2 (but strong) cities in the area, which is IIRC not enough for the UHV. Jessiecat's cities are better then, though I'd have built Durazzo one tile north to get the sheep in stead of the stone, so it can get bigger and work all the tiles possible. The most powerful city I've seen in the entire game (outside Spain, I can't remember those exactly but they were quite strong too), is the city near the iron, horse and sulphur, that also has 2 food resources.

@ Sedna: I agree that these mines are more powerful now. However, windmills are upgraded with certain techs, mines aren't. In RFC they get +1 production with Railroads, that don't exist here. Windmills would be much stronger than mines if mines would cut forests too, so I think it was a good decision to let it be as it is now.:)

As Venice, I usually build Venice, Trieste, Pola, and Durazzo (counts in Greek area, strange as it may seem). I have also built Parma (great city site) in one game. Never thought of building Trento, though it might be a good site.

I agree that Sicily is also great. It can grow and build infrastructure in no time. 2 tiles SE of Naples is also pretty good, especially if Naples is gone.

@jessiecat: Thought about moving the RFCE wiki to the new RFC site (rhye.civfanatics.net)?

@jessiecat: Thought about moving the RFCE wiki to the new RFC site (rhye.civfanatics.net)?

The link is already there in the mod/mods section but we're only described as "proposed" rather than a work in progress.
I may PM Rhye about this very soon.

I was never clear on why the switch is happening. I find rhye.civfanatics.net very crowded/cramped. Furthermore, it would actually be a lot of work to port stuff over. Long-term, we'll need to have something on the new official wiki, but I don't think moving stuff over now during the development phase is a good thing.

The current wiki has so much work in progress that I think that when we get to either the Beta or the first official release we should redo that one. Mostly using the information from the reference that is currently in the zip file.

Hey 3Miro,

Probably you have your own list, but here are a couple of relatively important things that (as far as I can tell) require C++, and thus only you can fix.

- Fixing the end date of our mod to end in 1800 AD (currently around 1760ish)
- Cottage growth-time display bug
- East/West India company not working properly as prerequisites for other colonies
- Any issues with religion-spreading as a result of adding Judaism.

Of course this is only for whenever you have the time. I've been working on fixing python and XML bugs for the next release. Let me know if you're working on any python files so that I can be sure we don't run into conflicts.

A couple of recent things to report.

In my latest game as the Norse I was able to build the Augsburg Banking Families and the Medici Bank, both in the same city. And I was able to spread them to other cities so much that other cities got both. Aren't they supposed to be in competition with each other? But how can they be? They're using different resources. How is this competition supposed to work?:confused:

I also had a try again as Burgundy in the latest edition. Knowing that I could get unstable if I expanded too fast I built Dijon and Basle and turtled. Built markets and manor houses then the Monastery of Cluny. I was at peace with France, Spain, the Norse and Rome. Everything going good until Germany spawns. Within 2 turns Germany is wiped out by barbarians. Then Basle declares its independence. I look at the stability box. I have 3 stars on everything except foriegn which is 2. But I'm unstable. How can that be with only 2 cities and good relations with everybody? I can't play as Burgundy and I don't understand what's wrong.:confused:

Hey 3Miro,

Probably you have your own list, but here are a couple of relatively important things that (as far as I can tell) require C++, and thus only you can fix.

- Fixing the end date of our mod to end in 1800 AD (currently around 1760ish)
- Cottage growth-time display bug
- East/West India company not working properly as prerequisites for other colonies
- Any issues with religion-spreading as a result of adding Judaism.

Of course this is only for whenever you have the time. I've been working on fixing python and XML bugs for the next release. Let me know if you're working on any python files so that I can be sure we don't run into conflicts.

- The end of the game is not in c++. There is an XML file, something like game speed or something like that, it gives all the year information. Then the spawn dates are in the tBirth array in consts.py. I will fix that, however, it is not a big deal.

- Cottage display bug would probably be the hardest to fix. I will look at it when I get a chance.

- To add colony prerequisites for other colonies, I would need to add more changes in the project scheme file. I will do that.

- Of course, exposing the religion spread factor to python.

One other thing that worries me is that many people are complaining about UHVs not working. We never had such a massive UHV report before and I wonder is it is something that I messed up recently or is it the fact that people are now testing things more in depth.

I am rather busy this week, but I should have free time around Friday and hopefully more next week.

- The end of the game is not in c++. There is an XML file, something like game speed or something like that, it gives all the year information. Then the spawn dates are in the tBirth array in consts.py. I will fix that, however, it is not a big deal.

The funny thing is that the XML file looks right, and should cover 1300 years:


<GameTurnInfos>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iMonthIncrement>48</iMonthIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>100</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iMonthIncrement>36</iMonthIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>200</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iMonthIncrement>24</iMonthIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>100</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iMonthIncrement>12</iMonthIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>100</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
</GameTurnInfos>


- Cottage display bug would probably be the hardest to fix. I will look at it when I get a chance.

If it's complicated, I am totally fine with reverting to the original Firaxis code and not using the -50% cottage growth for Serfdom (in fact, I've temporarily removed that in the latest versions to get unconfused bug reports).

One other thing that worries me is that many people are complaining about UHVs not working. We never had such a massive UHV report before and I wonder is it is something that I messed up recently or is it the fact that people are now testing things more in depth.

I think it's just the latter. I've found and fixed minor bugs in Victory.py that were preventing French-culture and Spanish-religion UHVs and also have found the problem with colony UHVs not counting, so that's all working now. There are probably a few other UHV bugs left to squash, but it doesn't seem like something systematic.

@Jessiecat

Competes does mean "requires the same resources". There was a bug in the corporations XML regarding those two corporations.

As for Burgundy... I can't say for sure. Remember that being a turtle is NOT enough to remain stable. Otherwise Egypt or Babylon could survive into the late game in plain RFC. In fact, you have to grow your economy, which normally means expansion -- but this causes instability if your civ is constrained to a small area. This is the curse of Rhye, and we haven't changed the basic mechanics of this.

@Jessiecat

Competes does mean "requires the same resources". There was a bug in the corporations XML regarding those two corporations.

As for Burgundy... I can't say for sure. Remember that being a turtle is NOT enough to remain stable. Otherwise Egypt or Babylon could survive into the late game in plain RFC. In fact, you have to grow your economy, which normally means expansion -- but this causes instability if your civ is constrained to a small area. This is the curse of Rhye, and we haven't changed the basic mechanics of this.

I thought the corporation thing seemed bugged. I understand your point. About Burgundy, the problem wasn't failure to expand or economy not growing. It was 2 stars for foriegn even though my foriegn relations were excellent. Surely Germany being wiped out shouldn't be enough to make Burgundy suddenly unstable and lose 1 of 2 cities should it?

EDIT Tried it again. New start. Built 3 cities and captured Marseilles. Funny thing. Germany converted to Judaism. I thought we weren't allowing that. And Genoa became Islamic. Anyway soon lost Marseilles due to instability. Three stars on everything but 1 star for foriegn. I give up.

I've seen that before, the first box gets really low after a while, like -30. Still, it's possible to balance this by having a good economy, having good cities, etc. In my game I conquered as far as Paris, and found out that is actually helped my stability.

There is something I don't understand though: why has Burgundy much higher maintenance penalties? If it's to make sure Burgundy has to turtle, then it's fine, but if it's not, could the penalties be removed then?

I've seen that before, the first box gets really low after a while, like -30. Still, it's possible to balance this by having a good economy, having good cities, etc. In my game I conquered as far as Paris, and found out that is actually helped my stability.

There is something I don't understand though: why has Burgundy much higher maintenance penalties? If it's to make sure Burgundy has to turtle, then it's fine, but if it's not, could the penalties be removed then?

I don't know about the maintenance penalties but there seems to be a heavy penalty against foriegn relations. I've tried again and this time I haven't lost a city yet. Got the first UHV condition too. But although I have 4 or 5 OBs and Germany is my vassal (I'm running Vassalage) I still only have 1 star for foriegn and am showing as shaky (-10). I don't know what the problem is. Maybe Burgundy needs "The Power of Entente" as well. Like tweak the foriegn modifier a bit in their favour? Please sedna or 3Miro.:help:

I don't know about the maintenance penalties but there seems to be a heavy penalty against foriegn relations. I've tried again and this time I haven't lost a city yet. Got the first UHV condition too. But although I have 4 or 5 OBs and Germany is my vassal (I'm running Vassalage) I still only have 1 star for foriegn and am showing as shaky (-10). I don't know what the problem is. Maybe Burgundy needs "The Power of Entente" as well. Like tweak the foriegn modifier a bit in their favour? Please sedna or 3Miro.:help:

It has been couple of months sine I last worked on the foreign relations. IIRC the main contribution was Wars vs Neutral vs OB vs Defense Pacts. I will double check, it could actually be a bug.

On the civic screen, which one of the boxes is low, the first or the second one (or both). Could you post a screenshot of the stability/Domestics screen.

The first one. The other civs have this one usually around 0, Burgundy in the end at -30. The second box usually grows to +30, for all civs.

It has been couple of months sine I last worked on the foreign relations. IIRC the main contribution was Wars vs Neutral vs OB vs Defense Pacts. I will double check, it could actually be a bug.

On the civic screen, which one of the boxes is low, the first or the second one (or both). Could you post a screenshot of the stability/Domestics screen.

Sure. What do you mean 1st. or 2nd.? Foriegn is the last box. On this shot I've just gone up to 0 although the foriegn base no. is still low. And I have only 1 star. I've only ever had this problem with Burgundy. I've included the saved game and the previous autosave too in case you want to check them out.

Sure. What do you mean 1st. or 2nd.? Foriegn is the last box. On this shot I've just gone up to 0 although the foriegn base no. is still low. And I have only 1 star. I've only ever had this problem with Burgundy. I've included the saved game and the previous autosave too in case you want to check them out.

OK the problem is the -26. This is actually still Rhye's code. This number is decremented every time you loose a city by trade (probably not an issue in your case) and every time you win/loose combat. If you fight too many wars and the ratio of wins vs looses is less than 2 to 1 you will loose stability. The actual formula is more complicated but this is the oversimplification.

OK the problem is the -26. This is actually still Rhye's code. This number is decremented every time you loose a city by trade (probably not an issue in your case) and every time you win/loose combat. If you fight too many wars and the ratio of wins vs looses is less than 2 to 1 you will loose stability. The actual formula is more complicated but this is the oversimplification.

I see. Except in my case I had no combat to win or lose as I was never at war except for a few turns in the beginning. I did capture one city but lost no troops. That no. was about -26 long before that.. It started going down when I got Feudalism and changed civics to Electorate and Feudal Law. Something isn't right here.

Anyway I've played on until 1400 and got the 2nd. UHV condition. Though stability has stayed in minus until the GA. Funny enough I'll win the UHV now but I think the early instability seems specific in Burgundy's code. I've never had any such instability with any other civ.

1. As I reported in the other thread, there was a bug with Stefan I of Hungary not opening borders despite being Friendly, motivating that he didn't like me enough. I went to CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml, the requirement was <OpenBordersRefuseAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_CAUTIOUS</OpenBordersRefuseAttitudeThreshold>, requiring us to be Pleased iirc, which I clearly outperformed. So I switched it to ATTITUDE_ANNOYED and OBorders went active in the game. This is clearly a temporary fix, but until we figure out what caused the bug in the first place, I propose using this fix.

2. Also Stephen declared on me while being Friendly, despite not being able to plan war since Pleased (NoWarAttitudeProb = 100), and that was for some 80 turns already.

3. Sieging Independent Constantinople. Defense +225%. 5 bombards... bombard, zero effect - still +225%. NB: it had Theodossian Walls.
Edit: got it. Walls+castle+Theodossian = 0 bombardment effect. Should it be that way? Bombard is gunpowder-based, and all those rocks should have effect on pre-gunpowder only.
Used WB to put bombard, Turkish great bombard and field artillery to Ephesus. Only Turkish one ignores walls, others behave as pre-gunpowder.

4. Took Ephesus, proposed to return it to the Kingdom of Germany (vassal of mine). Hehe.

One more: regular knight units receive defensive bonus; Boyars and winged hussars do not.

Edit: and one more - musketmen and cuirassiers do not ignore walls and castles (they do in classic BtS).

Cuirassiers ignore rough terrain (while moving)

Can't move large (e.g. 12-size) stacks for more than 1 tile at a time, have to split.

Cuirassiers ignore rough terrain (while moving)

Can't move large (e.g. 12-size) stacks for more than 1 tile at a time, have to split.

This is either a Firaxis or RFC bug. I have seen it outside RFC:Europe, but I am not sure if it was in RFC or regular BtS.

I've never seen this before, thus reporting.

Another bug (or feature unknow to me) I encountered: all Swedish units, even ships and workers, have antihorse promotion.

I've never seen this before, thus reporting.

Another bug (or feature unknow to me) I encountered: all Swedish units, even ships and workers, have antihorse promotion.

I am trying to keep things as flexible as possible. The UP states that when a new unit is build, it gets promotion X. To limit Formation promotion to land units only, I will have to add another check to everything and if I ma to keep things flexible I will have to make more changes. I will probably fix it eventually, but for now it makes no difference anyway, so there is no point to change.

I've never seen this before, thus reporting.

Another bug (or feature unknow to me) I encountered: all Swedish units, even ships and workers, have antihorse promotion.

It's their UP. But I think the Workers and ships don't have to get that promotion. But with the Cordoban UP I think they should get the promotion. (even workers)

It's their UP. But I think the Workers and ships don't have to get that promotion. But with the Cordoban UP I think they should get the promotion. (even workers)

It makes only an aesthetic difference. Ships and work ersnever fight against mounted units anyway.

Burgundy
1. Control the Rhine Valley in 1200AD
2, Do not lose a city to Germans or Franks before 1400AD
3. Control 6 luxury resources in 1500AD (was 1600)*

France
1. Control the historic area of France in 1500AD
2. Build the Monastery of Cluny, Notre Dame and Versailles*(new)
3. Build 2 trading companies and 4 colonies*(changed)

Byzantines
1. Make Constantinople the largest and most cultural city in Europe in 1000AD
2. Control Constantinople, Greece and Anatolia in 1300AD
3. Be the richest empire in the world in 1400AD*(was 1500)

Arabia
1. Control the Levant, Antioch, Aleppo and Egypt in 1000AD
2. Control all of North Africa east of Oran in 1500AD*(was 1700)
3. Never lose a city before 1500AD*(new)

Bulgaria no changes

Cordoba
1. Make Cordoba the most populous city in the world in 1000AD
2. Never lose a city to Spain or Portugal before 1500AD*(new)
3. Build La Mezquita, the Alhambra and the Gardens of Al Andalus*(new)

Spain
1. Conquer Cordoba, control Portugal and have 2 cities in Italy by 1600AD*(changed)
2. Allow no non-Catholic religion in Iberia by 1650AD
3. Build 2 trading companies and 4 colonies*(changed)

The Norse
1. Have a city in France, Britain, Ireland, Iceland and Sicily by 1300AD*(changed)
2. Control Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Finland (at least 1 city each) by 1400AD*(new)
3. Build 1 trading company and 3 colonies*(new)

Venice
1. Control the Dalmation coast and have a city in mainland Greece, Crete, Rhodes and Cyprus in 1500AD*(changed)
2. Build Marco Polo's Embassy, the Basilica San Marco and Leonardo's Inventions*(new)
3. Control 10 luxury resources in 1600AD*(changed)

Kievan Rus
1. Control 8 grain resources (wheat or barley) in 1300AD*(changed)
2. Control the Black Sea coast in 1400AD*(changed)
3. Build 2 Orthodox cathedrals and 8 Orthodox monasteries by 1500AD*(changed)

Hungary
1. Control all territory between the Adriatic and the Carpathians north of Constantinople by 1500AD*(changed)
2. Never lose a city to barbarians, Byzantines or Ottomans by 1600AD*(changed)
3. Research Liberalism and adopt Free Religion by 1650AD*(changed)

Germany no changes

Poland
1. Never lose a city to Germany, Kievan Rus or Moscow before 1500AD*(changed)
2. Build 2 Catholic cathedrals and 8 Catholic monasteries before 1600AD
3. Be the most populous country in Europe in 1650AD*(changed)

Genoa
1. Control Corsica, Sardinia, Marseilles and Milano by 1500AD*(changed)
2. Control the above plus Sicily, Cyprus and Crete in 1600AD*(changed)
3. Build 1 banking corporation with branches and banks in 8 cities*(new)

England
1. Control the British Isles and Ireland and have 2 cities in France in 1600AD*(changed)
2. Be the first to reach the Industrial Age
3. Build 2 trading companies and 4 colonies

Portugal
1. Build 6 cities west of Iberia by 1500AD*(new)
2. Never lose a city before 1600AD
3. Build 1 trading company and 3 colonies*(changed)

Austria
1. Control area between Adriatic and the Carpathians north of the Danube by 1600AD*(changed)
2. Have at least 3 vassals in 1650AD
3. Have 2 defensive alliances in 1700AD

Ottomans
1. Control Constantinople and Anatolia in 1500AD
2. Control the Balkans south of the Danube and Vienna in 1600AD*(changed)
3. Control the Levant and Egypt in 1700AD*(changed)

Sweden
1. Control Sweden and Finland in 1600AD*(changed)
2. Have 2 cities east of the Baltic and 1 south of the Baltic in 1650AD*(changed)
3. Never lose a city before 1700AD*(new)

Netherlands
1. Have open borders with 10 civs in 1650AD
2. Build 5 Great Merchants
3. Build the East India Company and 3 colonies by 1750*(changed)

Arabia

3. Never lose a city to barbarians, Byzantines or crusaders*(new)

I assume it's until 1500?

I like most of them, although I'd like to make some changes. Portugal, for example, has to build 3 cities by 1500 AD, so they have app. 120 turns to build them. In RFC, this is the number of turns between 600 AD and 1600 AD. So the time to build them, is huge. And I suppose that, if you don't want to conquer Spain or Cordoba, you'd settle these areas anyway. So, maybe the goal should be changed to: settle 10 cities at least 20 (suggestion) tiles from Lisboa, by 1400 or 1500 AD.

Also, we should not forget that most of the goals in RFC were designed to stimulate an active playing style. China for example requires some serious planning. Of course some things could go wrong, but the player had to use strategies that he wouldn't use in a normal game. Who would ever try to ruin his economy only to build 120 units and 2 cathedrals? In short, I think that the goals should be designed to direct the player in a certain way, that gives victory. The Turkish goal (control some large areas) is a goal that I like very much. The player is forced to ruin his economy, and he has some stability problems, but the reward is victory.

The main difference at the moment is not that the goal is too easy, but that there is so much time to achieve it. Cathedrals require a tech to enable them, but that tech is not very advanced. It doesn't take so much time to build them either, so the goal is relatively easy. In my opinion, the best, and probably easiest, way to make this goal harder is to find out how much time it takes, with a normal playing style, to build the cathedrals, and make the goal 30 years softer.

In general: I like most goals, but I still think some of them are (way) too easy. But I think it is simply a matter of time that this will be resolved, so nothing to worry about!:)

When did the Genoans build Colonies? I would go for them to a "Have x gold at y AD''

Genoa should found banks, not colonies.

A lot of UHVs in RFC can be divided into eras: e.g 1450 for Khmer is a cut off, while for Arabia if you don't win by 1300 it's over for the UHV. The 3rd criteria is usually a little more flexible in time, e.g. conversion to religion or researching techs first. You can even say that building certain wonders have a time limit because the AI will gun for them.

I would suggest something similar mid game (counting from spawn time) for more civs, rather than spreading out the UHVs, and making the last criteria a "by" criteria rather than "in" to allow for flexibility.

Genoa should found banks, not colonies.

A lot of UHVs in RFC can be divided into eras: e.g 1450 for Khmer is a cut off, while for Arabia if you don't win by 1300 it's over for the UHV. The 3rd criteria is usually a little more flexible in time, e.g. conversion to religion or researching techs first. You can even say that building certain wonders have a time limit because the AI will gun for them.

I would suggest something similar mid game (counting from spawn time) for more civs, rather than spreading out the UHVs, and making the last criteria a "by" criteria rather than "in" to allow for flexibility.

Have added the Ottomans, Sweden and the Netherlands to the list.
I do agree about Genoa. Its just that if they are required to control Marseilles they will have Atlantic Access. However I've changed that one to 1 trading company and 1 banking corporation spread to 6 cities. That would be more fitting.
Your point about time is well taken. The assumption is that some civs like Burgundy, Kievan Rus, Cordoba and the Byzantines are intended to collapse or fade away by 1500AD so their UHV goals need to be accomplished earlier. Which I've tried to do. The rest should have to play until 1600 in order to get the UHV win, in my view. Some of the later ones will become much harder esp. if they have to build a trading company before they can build colonies. At present they don't. This needs to change.
I've also changed Portugal to "6 cities west of Iberia" to force them to colonize the islands, requiring them to have shipbuilding at least a long time before 1500AD.

A nice list. I approve of making many of the goals harder/shorter for now. A couple quick things:

1) I've (finally) figured out the obvious problem that was making the mod end in 1760. Ya'll will be able to play to 1800 now -- if your computer can handle it :) Still, I approve of having most of the time-specific conditions wrap up before then.

2) A lot of the bug fixes for the old UHVs were problems that needed to be fixed -- but programming these new goals will introduce some new typo-bugs. Ah well, we need to play them all to see if they're feasible anyway.

3) In general UHV conditions which are "by" a certain date take more processing time than those which are "in" -- the calls to check a given area for "control" take a little time to run, especially for large areas, so it makes a difference if they have to run every turn versus just on one turn. In general though, I agree with AnotherPacifist that it's nice to make a final condition be a little open-ended as this way you can putter around for a while before the win if you want to, alternatively you can just get it done in order to move on to a new game. I think the colonies largely fill this goal though, because there are a lot of them.

4) This Arab one
3. Never lose a city to barbarians, Byzantines or crusaders before 1500AD*(new)
will have to be changed to "Barbarians, Byzantines, or a Catholic nation", because there is no way to explicitly distinguish "crusaders" in the code. Still, that should play basically the same way.

5) The 1st English UHV appears to have gotten easier (dropping the 1 city in France requirement). I feel like the French city was the only interesting/challenging part of this UHV and support its return.

For England, how about specifically requiring both Calais and Aquitaine (i.e. Bordeaux or thereabouts) to be under British control? For accuracy, England should be more continentally-minded...the AI probably won't do it, but it will force the player to do so.

I agree about the time lag with "by" UHV conditions. Do civs have their conditions checked if they are not alive?

No problems with changing the Arab to "never lose a city" to anyone if that's easier. And the English one was an oversight. I've just restored it to what it was.
Could you change the trading company for colonies requirement also?:D

UHV conditions are not checked if a Civ is dead, but that's rarely more than a handful of Civs.

The trading company prerequisite thing is (like the AI/project building thing), done in C/SDK. I'm a lot less familiar with this portion of the mod, so I need some dedicated time to really understand it -- but I'm definitely trying to fix both problems at the same time.

Wow. Hadn't read that list. It's great jessiecat. Love the changes.

Though I'll propose some more.

For starters, I don't like Venice so much vent on conquest. It makes the game predictable and... too much easy.

Venice
1. Control the Dalmatian coast and have a city in mainland Greece, Crete and Cyprus by 1400AD.
2. Build Marco Polo's Embassy, San Marco Basilica, one more wonder and settle 3 great specialists in Venice by 1400AD.
3. Control 10 luxury resources by 1600AD.

No trading company, Marseilles nor Milano for Genoa. I don't really see the historical justification for that.

Genoa
1. Control Corsica, Sardinia, Cyprus, Crete by 1500AD
2. Have more gold, population and number of cities than Venice in 1500AD
3. Build 2 banking corporations in 10 cities each by 1600AD

Spain needs to be less boring and more accurate also (though it may be too difficult).

Spain
1. Conquer or vassalize all of Iberia (Cordoba must die?), and have 2 cities in Italy, 2 in Belgium/Netherlands/northeastern France by 1600 AD.
2. Allow no non-Catholic religion in its cities by 1600AD
3. Build 2 trading companies and 4 colonies

A possible bug: playing as Venice, I won two crusades and there was no question for me to redirect them to Byzantium. Only works for the AI?

Hm. Also. I won the first, and went with my crusaders for Tyrus instead of Jerusalem, waited for the second (as of course Jerusalem was still Arab), got the troops again... is this a potential exploit? It surely looks like the best strategy. Free troops for each crusade!

About jewish propagation. Is it coded completely? It never went to any of my cities. Aren't there supposed to be jews in Venezia?

A possible bug: playing as Venice, I won two crusades and there was no question for me to redirect them to Byzantium. Only works for the AI?

Hm. Also. I won the first, and went with my crusaders for Tyrus instead of Jerusalem, waited for the second (as of course Jerusalem was still Arab), got the troops again... is this a potential exploit? It surely looks like the best strategy. Free troops for each crusade!

About jewish propagation. Is it coded completely? It never went to any of my cities. Aren't there supposed to be jews in Venezia?

I agree the Crusades is really open to being an exploit if the human player hoards his troops but at present there's no reward for occupying the Holy Land and a big stability problem unless you run Imperialism. I've never had a problem with Judaism. There's always a couple of cities where I can build the Jewish Quarter.
As for the UHV list, I like your suggestions except for a couple of things.
1. Venice should have to conquer Rhodes. I'd have that instead of the specialists. The
3rd. wonder should be Leonardos Inventions. I'll alter Venice for both conditions.
2. You're probably right about the trading company but I think think 2 banking corporations with 10 branches each is too much. And I think they still need to control Milano and Marseilles.
3. Spain is a problem. I'm OK with them needing to conquer Cordoba and vassalize Portugal. And I'm OK with 2 cities in Italy by 1650. But needing 2 in the Netherlands area as well may be too much to achieve.

Burgundy
1. Control the Rhine Valley in 1200AD
2, Do not lose a city to Germans or Franks before 1400AD
3. Control 6 luxury resources in 1500AD (was 1600)*

France
1. Control the historic area of France and the west bank of the Rhine in 1500AD
2. Build the Monastery of Cluny, Notre Dame and Versailles*(new)
3. Build 2 trading companies and 4 colonies*(changed)

Byzantines
1. Make Constantinople the largest and most cultural city in Europe in 1000AD
2. Control Constantinople, Greece and Anatolia in 1300AD
3. Be the richest empire in the world in 1400AD*(was 1500)

Arabia
1. Control the Levant, Antioch, Aleppo and Egypt in 1000AD
2. Control all of North Africa east of Oran in 1500AD*(was 1700)
3. Never lose a city before 1500AD*(new)

Bulgaria no changes

Cordoba
1. Make Cordoba the most populous city in the world in 1000AD
2. Never lose a city to Spain or Portugal before 1500AD*(new)
3. Build La Mezquita, the Alhambra and the Gardens of Al Andalus*(new)

Spain
1. Conquer Cordoba, control Iberia and have 2 cities in Italy by 1600AD*(changed)
2. Allow no non-Catholic religion in Iberia by 1650AD
3. Build 2 trading companies and 4 colonies*(changed)

The Norse
1. Have a city in France, Britain, Ireland, Iceland and Sicily by 1300AD*(changed)
2. Control Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Finland (at least 1 city each) by 1400AD*(new)
3. Build 1 trading company and 3 colonies*(new)

Venice
1. Control the Dalmation coast and have a city in mainland Greece, Crete, Rhodes and Cyprus in 1500AD*(changed)
2. Build Marco Polo's Embassy, the Basilica San Marco and Leonardo's Inventions*(new)
3. Control 10 luxury resources in 1600AD*(changed)

Kievan Rus
1. Control 8 grain resources (wheat or barley) in 1300AD*(changed)
2. Control the Black Sea coast in 1400AD*(changed)
3. Build 2 Orthodox cathedrals and 8 Orthodox monasteries by 1500AD*(changed)

Hungary
1. Control all territory between the Adriatic and the Carpathians north of Constantinople by 1500AD*(changed)
2. Never lose a city to barbarians, Byzantines or Ottomans by 1600AD*(changed)
3. Research Liberalism and adopt Free Religion by 1650AD*(changed)

Germany no changes

Poland
1. Never lose a city to Germany, Kievan Rus or Moscow before 1500AD*(changed)
2. Build 2 Catholic cathedrals and 8 Catholic monasteries before 1600AD
3. Be the most populous country in Europe in 1650AD*(changed)

Genoa
1. Control Corsica, Sardinia, Marseilles and Milano by 1500AD*(changed)
2. Control the above plus Sicily, Cyprus and Crete in 1600AD*(changed)
3. Build 1 banking corporation with branches and banks in 8 cities*(new)

England
1. Control the British Isles and Ireland and have 2 cities in France in 1600AD*(changed)
2. Be the first to reach the Industrial Age
3. Build 2 trading companies and 4 colonies

Portugal
1. Build 6 cities west of Iberia by 1500AD*(new)
2. Never lose a city before 1600AD
3. Build 1 trading company and 3 colonies*(changed)

Austria
1. Control area between Adriatic and the Carpathians north of the Danube by 1600AD*(changed)
2. Have at least 3 vassals in 1650AD
3. Have 2 defensive alliances in 1700AD

Ottomans
1. Control Constantinople and Anatolia in 1500AD
2. Control the Balkans south of the Danube and Vienna in 1600AD*(changed)
3. Control the Levant and Egypt in 1700AD*(changed)

Sweden
1. Control Sweden and Finland in 1600AD*(changed)
2. Have 2 cities east of the Baltic and 1 south of the Baltic in 1650AD*(changed)
3. Never lose a city before 1700AD*(new)

Netherlands
1. Have open borders with 10 civs in 1650AD
2. Build 5 Great Merchants
3. Build the East India Company and 3 colonies by 1750*(changed)

After incorporating everybody's suggestions this is the current revised UHV list as it stands.

A couple of things:

I really liked it when Genoa had to control Crimea, that was very challenging and fun

Does this mean Hungary needs to control a city such as tomis or that one to the north of it?

Kievan, are we supposed to control northern anatolia then?

also have the settler maps been reevaluated to accomadate these UHV's

finally is there anything being done to at least give the AI some interest in controlling the spanish netherlands, a problem is war with france leads them to go for south france rather than belgium.

Wow. Hadn't read that list. It's great jessiecat. Love the changes.

Though I'll propose some more.

For starters, I don't like Venice so much vent on conquest. It makes the game predictable and... too much easy.

Venice
1. Control the Dalmatian coast and have a city in mainland Greece, Crete and Cyprus by 1400AD.
2. Build Marco Polo's Embassy, San Marco Basilica, one more wonder and settle 3 great specialists in Venice by 1400AD.
3. Control 10 luxury resources by 1600AD.

No trading company, Marseilles nor Milano for Genoa. I don't really see the historical justification for that.

Genoa
1. Control Corsica, Sardinia, Cyprus, Crete by 1500AD
2. Have more gold, population and number of cities than Venice in 1500AD
3. Build 2 banking corporations in 10 cities each by 1600AD

Spain needs to be less boring and more accurate also (though it may be too difficult).

Spain
1. Conquer or vassalize all of Iberia (Cordoba must die?), and have 2 cities in Italy, 2 in Belgium/Netherlands/northeastern France by 1600 AD.
2. Allow no non-Catholic religion in its cities by 1600AD
3. Build 2 trading companies and 4 colonies

I like your suggestions, especially the new goals of Spain and Genoa. It is more difficult, but that's not that much of a problem I think. Spain has done it in real life, so why shouldn't it be doable in a game? The corporations goal also seems to be fun, since the player first has to found 2 corporations and then spread them.

I think I pretty much agree with the other UHV's now.:)

I like that as you've put it, jessiecat. Thank you.

There should be some more interest in Italy for some AIs. Maybe Spain and France's warmaps can be changed?

My main complaint about the Lowlands area: France shouldn't settle Anvers (french didn't control that for most of the time anyway), but it shouldn't be empty anyway. I suppose Burgundy could get a city on spawn there, just below the dutch zone; or an extra settler. They're doomed to collapse later anyway.

Talking about France, maybe this
1. Control the historic area of France in 1500AD

can change to
1. Control the historic area of France, 1 city in Italy, 1 in Belgium/Netherlands and 1 in the Rhine Bank in 1650AD

Why? France was along with Spain the main warmonger in the later period of the game (even more aggresive, as most spanish wars were deffensive in origin), which I suppose is the justification for their UP.

Ah, another thingy. You wrote "Conquer Cordoba, Control Portugal", but it could be better as now, just requiring Cordoba dead. It isn't the same, as that way you have to control Iberia, including independent Barcelona.

I like that as you've put it, jessiecat. Thank you.

There should be some more interest in Italy for some AIs. Maybe Spain and France's warmaps can be changed?

My main complaint about the Lowlands area: France shouldn't settle Anvers (french didn't control that for most of the time anyway), but it shouldn't be empty anyway. I suppose Burgundy could get a city on spawn there, just below the dutch zone; or an extra settler. They're doomed to collapse later anyway.

Talking about France, maybe this
1. Control the historic area of France in 1500AD

can change to
1. Control the historic area of France, 1 city in Italy, 1 in Belgium/Netherlands and 1 in the Rhine Bank in 1650AD

Why? France was along with Spain the main warmonger in the later period of the game (even more aggresive, as most spanish wars were deffensive in origin), which I suppose is the justification for their UP.

Ah, another thingy. You wrote "Conquer Cordoba, Control Portugal", but it could be better as now, just requiring Cordoba dead. It isn't the same, as that way you have to control Iberia, including independent Barcelona.

OK. I've left Genoa as 1 corporation with 8 branches and banks for now to see how it plays. If it's too easy we can easily change it later.

You're right about controlling Iberia. I'll change it. As for the lowlands its a geographical problem as would the AI go for it if it means controlling Western France as well? I'm not sure. I'm in favour of leaving it out for now as Spain has a lot to do already.

Your point about France is very valid. I've changed it to include all territory west of the Rhine which would include Belgium and put them in direct competition with Burgundy.

And I agree that Burgundy needs another settler now that that sedna has fixed the foriegn instability bug. Maybe France needs a second one too?

I'd prefer not to start France/Burgundy with another settler. These two are your only chances in this mod to play from a relatively "normal" starting position of just one city. I have seen the Spanish AI settle in the low-countries a couple of times. If my planned revision to force France/Germany to stay out of this area works, then maybe Spain will settle there more frequently.

Yes, I'd love that kind of revision. No more french Anvers or German Utrecht please... that would also help the Dutch at spawn, not being surrounded by as much old, strong-cultured cities.

Yes, I'd love that kind of revision. No more french Anvers or German Utrecht please... that would also help the Dutch at spawn, not being surrounded by as much old, strong-cultured cities.

And assist your beloved Spanish? How could anyone think that? Perish the thought!:rolleyes:

Me? I would never say that. It must have been the other guy!:lol:

Ottomans
2. Control the Balkans south of the Danube and Vienna in 1600AD*(changed)

What exactly does this mean? Is it basically Europe south of the Danube, including Greece, as far west as and not including Venice and including Vienna? or is it something less than that?

Ottomans
2. Control the Balkans south of the Danube and Vienna in 1600AD*(changed)

What exactly does this mean? Is it basically Europe south of the Danube, including Greece, as far west as and not including Venice and including Vienna? or is it something less than that?

The Balkans is defined as being between the Adriatic and the Black Sea and south of Vienna. For the UHV that includes mainland Greece. So, basically as in the UHV map below.

I would be good if people could test out their ideas for UHVs.

For example, I played a test game as the Norse. I thought the proposed UHVs would be too easy, so I took as my goals a combination of the original UHVs and Jessiecat's, and it proved highly enjoyable.

1) Have a city in Ireland, Iceland, Britain, France and Sicily in 1050 AD.
2) Uncover all ocean tiles by 1200 AD.
3) ???

The first goal is exciting and challenging. You can't waste too much time. It is designed to allow you to be somewhere in the old viking section of England if you wish, since the goal ends before the English rise. I captured Jorvik, Dublin, and Calais reasonably easily with my initial troops and a few mercs, but barbs took and razed Calais. I built settlers and boats back home and sent them off on the long trips to Iceland and Sicily and then turned to building a new army to take a French city. The Sicilian boats had to declare war on the Cordobans to get past Gibraltar, and just barely survived their naval attack (being able to dodge into the ocean tiles to heal is a useful application of the Norse UP).

My amphibious invasion of Normany (at Caen) went well, though it was nail-biting to hold off the French counter-attacks until 1050 (I really felt the lack of horses). After meeting the goal I gifted cities back to the French and (rising) English. In the meantime, my boats had been exploring. It wasn't tough to get to see all the ocean by 1200, though I imagine it would have been if I hadn't been able to buy open borders with Byzantium. This goal kept me focused on naval techs (Cogges are useful, and Optics with +1 sight over water is a godsend) and using the Norse UB. It's not THE most exciting thing to sail your boats back and forth, but it's kind of rewarding in an OCD sort of way, and it is unique and 3Miro did have to code a special function to meet this goal.

I didn't play through goal 3, but I approve of having an open-ended goal for the last one to allow you to play with your little Norse kingdoms. Either the colonies, or a more Viking-like but time-non-specific raze X cities or sink Y boats would be fine.

P.S. Sorry for the lack of a new version this weekend. I need to squash a few more bugs before a release, and I "wasted" my free time yesterday messing around in Viking boats, but it'll come soon.

Testing new self-made UHVs--that's all fine and well, and in fact I accomplished what the Bulgarians and Arabians couldn't have in real life (i.e. conquer the Byzantine Empire), same for the Byzantines (be the only empire left standing in Asia Minor). But I need some leeway with stability before I become much more "creative" with UHVs. I would love to be able to conquer the Exarchate of Ravenna (i.e. conquer Venice and Rome back).:mischief:

Yeah yeah, you'll get your reduced expansion stability penalties...

I know I'm whining, but how about making courthouses give +2 stability and night watch/dungeons +1 stability? :crazyeye:

I'm giving Manor Houses, courthouses, dungeons, and night watches +1 stability. Everyone needs courthouses anyway, no need to give them +2 I feel. Stability should be pretty gentle in this round.

I'm giving Manor Houses, courthouses, dungeons, and night watches +1 stability. Everyone needs courthouses anyway, no need to give them +2 I feel. Stability should be pretty gentle in this round.

What's your ETA for the next version, and what will you be able to include? Tech descriptions maybe? And maybe new UHVs?

ETA: Tonight (GMT -6) or tomorrow night.

Changes: Lots of bug fixes, some modifications to the military units, tech descriptions, stability tweaks, a partial manual/readme.

Sadly not in time for this release: making the AI build colonies, most of the new UHVs.

ETA: Tonight (GMT -6) or tomorrow night.

Changes: Lots of bug fixes, some modifications to the military units, tech descriptions, stability tweaks, a partial manual/readme.

Sadly not in time for this release: making the AI build colonies, most of the new UHVs.

OK. Great. I gather you figured out how to code in the tech descriptions. So can I proceed with other descriptions, ie wonders, buildings, units etc? Which do we need first?

You should work on whatever entries are most interesting to you. That said, I've been sort of thinking about how I want to "explain" the units in the civilopedia, so perhaps you could work on buildings or wonders.

Sinking ships is very cool UHV for Norse, I enjoyed it RFC. Is there any way to count how many items did you pillage? Like hamlets, pastures, mines, towns. This can be very fresh UHV, if one could code it.

I support that idea. A large stack of units marching through France and Germany with their only duty to return everything into it's natural state..:viking:

I support that idea. A large stack of units marching through France and Germany with their only duty to return everything into it's natural state..:viking:

That would be easy to code, but I don't know a) how many "pillages" is an appropriate number and b) how you would keep track of how you're doing.

That depends on wether roads are counted or not (I'd say no). I think 50 is reasonable, maybe a little less, maybe more. I don't know how to show the number of pillaged improvements either, but possibly a simple tag would do the job, and if that doesn't work, who cares, we want to raze as much as the gods tell us.:king:

Another small suggestion, if it's possible to code, razed cities could count towards the UHV, with the number of buildings the city had = the number of destroyed improvements.

The potential exploit with pillaging is that a player can order his Norse workers to build a mine in his own cultural borders and then pillage it (without any raid money, just for UHV). This can be done 50 times :) Progress indicator is important though (ideally in F9 statistics screen). If it is possible to see the number of razed cities is there no way to see how many cottages and fishing boats have been razed by a player? Would be fun to see it even in the regular unmodded game. :)

Roads and forts of course should not count.

Just noticed a couple of things while working on the Civilopedia descriptions. Why is "L'Encyclopedia" listed as a project when it is really a World Wonder? And why are the East and West India Companies listed both as wonders and as corporations? In order to clarify all these for the new player I suggest these changes to the Civilopedia.

National Wonders (can be built by all civs given req. conditions)
Heroic Epic
National Theatre
National University
National Gallery
The Summer Palace
Tower of London (when coded)
East India Company
West India Company

World Wonders - all other wonders

Projects - renamed as Colonial Projects

Corporations - as now (7)

That would be easy to code, but I don't know a) how many "pillages" is an appropriate number and b) how you would keep track of how you're doing.

There is a "on unit pillage" event in python (in non RFC manager, so we will have to export it). If it works properly, we all should be trivial.

(Note: some events in python do not work. Some people claim to have ported an Inquisition unit to regular RFC, however, I don't think they have ported the AI properly. The Python AI functions are ignored in RFC's .dll file. That is why we had some issues with coding the proper Prosecutor AI)

Re Norse: For now I just have the 3rd Norse goal being to raze 10 cities, but that can be viewed as a placeholder.

Re Civilopedia: JediClemente coded the Encyclopedia as a project because The Internet is a project in the base game, and hence the ability to give free techs was available to projects (and not to buildings without more dll changes). I don't remember the India companies showing up under Wonders -- they show up as projects though, because that's what they "are" according to the game. Re-arranging the civilopedia as you suggest might be preferable, but would be a fair bit of work (and not so exciting, at least to me).

Re Norse: For now I just have the 3rd Norse goal being to raze 10 cities, but that can be viewed as a placeholder.

Re Civilopedia: JediClemente coded the Encyclopedia as a project because The Internet is a project in the base game, and hence the ability to give free techs was available to projects (and not to buildings without more dll changes). I don't remember the India companies showing up under Wonders -- they show up as projects though, because that's what they "are" according to the game. Re-arranging the civilopedia as you suggest might be preferable, but would be a fair bit of work (and not so exciting, at least to me).

The Round Church gives a free tech but it's listed as a wonder not a project. So why would the Encyclopedia be treated differently? And I can understand why it might be a pain to reearrange the civilopedia entries and I was mistaken about the India companies, but why should the corporations be listed twice as they are now? Check them out. There's no reason for them to be listed as wonders as well, is there?:confused:

Re. the Norse. I see the razing 10 cities is a placeholder. I hope so as its really ahistorical as the Norse rarely razed cities. Instead they looted them and demanded ransom from them. And they were pretty much settled by 1050 anyway. BTW Why did you have to alter the UHV dates so drastically? 1200 and 1400 would have been just fine, in my opinion.

The Round Church gives a free tech but it's listed as a wonder not a project. So why would the Encyclopedia be treated differently?

Because the round church gives a tech when built with the Encyclopedia gives techs known by X other players. It's a totally different function, and that's how it's coded.

And I can understand why it might be a pain to reearrange the civilopedia entries and I was mistaken about the India companies, but why should the corporations be listed twice as they are now? Check them out. There's no reason for them to be listed as wonders as well, is there?:confused:

Technically you're seeing the corporation headquarters listed as wonders. You found a corporation by building the HQ in a particular city with your GP. I think in base civ these buildings are called General Mills HQ, and so forth. We can change the names of these to something generic or cool (Templar Grand Lodge, or something) to alleviate some confusion.

Re. the Norse. I see the razing 10 cities is a placeholder. I hope so as its really ahistorical as the Norse rarely razed cities. Instead they looted them and demanded ransom from them. And they were pretty much settled by 1050 anyway. BTW Why did you have to alter the UHV dates so drastically? 1200 and 1400 would have been just fine, in my opinion.

1200 and 1400 for UHV dates give you WAY too much time making it no challenge/fun. Besides, most of the settlements in question were founded before or during the 11th century -- so that one's more historical.

I guess we have different opinions on these, esp. the Norse. Maybe you've just gone from too easy to too hard for most players now that Sicily is a goal.
Can I bring up something else? Just started a game as Arabia and Islam was founded in Tyre. And Jerusalem and Damascus didn't convert to Islam. So neither can build anything Islamic until they get Gothic Architecture and Organized Religion. Obviously when you shifted civics it changed everything, esp. for Arabia. It even messed up their UP as well. Was this intentional?

Can I bring up something else? Just started a game as Arabia and Islam was founded in Tyre. And Jerusalem and Damascus didn't convert to Islam. So neither can build anything Islamic until they get Gothic Architecture and Organized Religion. Obviously when you shifted civics it changed everything, esp. for Arabia. It even messed up their UP as well. Was this intentional?

I don't think this is entirely my fault -- it shouldn't have messed up their UP. What happens is that sometimes a civ will "rise" one turn late (counter will read -1 if you're playing them). I consider this a bug in the original RFC code. When this happens to the Arabs, they don't get a chance to switch to Islam before Jerusalem/Damascus flip, so those cities don't get Islam automatically and Arabia sometimes ends up Orthodox.

In general though, I'm not happy with the religious civics as they stand. There should be a good early religious civic (ala Organized Religion), but I'd really like to encourage the building of monasteries and so perhaps defer the "no monastery bonus" to a later religious civic (or even a couple of them, perhaps one of them the Arabs can start with).

I don't think this is entirely my fault -- it shouldn't have messed up their UP. What happens is that sometimes a civ will "rise" one turn late (counter will read -1 if you're playing them). I consider this a bug in the original RFC code. When this happens to the Arabs, they don't get a chance to switch to Islam before Jerusalem/Damascus flip, so those cities don't get Islam automatically and Arabia sometimes ends up Orthodox.

In general though, I'm not happy with the religious civics as they stand. There should be a good early religious civic (ala Organized Religion), but I'd really like to encourage the building of monasteries and so perhaps defer the "no monastery bonus" to a later religious civic (or even a couple of them, perhaps one of them the Arabs can start with).

I don't think that's the answer. Before the changes, Islam was founded in the first city, Damascus, which got a mosque and the Majid. This time I founded it in Damascus before the flip but Tyre got the mosque and the Majid while Damascus and Jerusalem got nothing and stayed Orthodox. All this stems from shifting Organized Religion to later. Frankly, I don't understand why you had to do that. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Organized Religion as it is. Monasteries shouldn't come before temples. How can you have a monastery without an established religion and a church? That's just silly. If you really want to encourage monasteries then add another research point or other bonus. Don't just turn everything on its head for the sake of it. You've upset far too many other things.
The same goes for some of the other changes. It really bugs me that a worker can build a plantation from the start but not a farm. How backwards is that? And a disastrous growth inhibitor for the early civs. I know you tried to tweak a few things to achieve a result but all you've achieved is upsetting the balance and stability without getting any meaningful improvement. Everything worked much better in the old version. Please, please change everything back to the way it was.

I think manorialism should enable plantations rather than farms. Not historical but it would restore the ability to build farms early on.

Speaking of manorialism, it reminds me of corvee which in ROTK allowed military units to be built by food. Since there's no slavery, this would give civs like Byzantine (with their inherent disadvantage of hammers) and smaller civs (like Hungary) to build units. Of course, the city stops growing while it's building a military unit, but you have a much better chance of repelling barbarians and overexpanding human players. :lol:

I would give this food-for-hammer advantage to serfdom (since it lost the 50% improvement rate) but not manorialism.

The behavior you report for Islam is not the consequence of moving Organized Religion later, I promise you that. It is possibly an accidental result of some OTHER change. I will have to investigate.

I am not going to unilaterally revert all the changes I spent the last two weeks working on. However, I do hear and appreciate your concerns. I would also like to hear opinions from other people.

Several people had complained about the lack of interesting strategic options for the starting civs with too many things available. After playing many such starts, I agreed with them and made some changes which I think make for more interesting choices -- they certainly make the game more enjoyable for me. I disagree that this is "...a disastrous growth inhibitor for the early civs." The early civs seem to be doing fine in test games, and the worker techs just aren't that far into the tree. Plantations coming before farms does seem a little funny.

@AP: A food-for-military units civic would be an interesting strategic choice. I (or someone else, the Civics XML file is easy to edit) would have to run some test games to see how it plays in practice.

Nobody expects that you reverse all the changes you made unilaterally any more than they would have expected you to make those changes unilaterally. But the fact is that some of the tech shifts have adversely affected the conditions in which civs operate. Shifting Organized Religion is only one example.
1. Making farm-building dependent on Manorialism and moving chopping to Plate Armour has further limited the no. of tiles the player can farm, as you can see in the first example below. Previously, as Cordoba, I could farm every plains tile even if it had a forest on it and achieve a population of 14-15 by 1000AD. Now, after 3 attempts the best I could achieve is 10 because 3 wooded tiles in the BFC can't be farmed. Obviously the first UHV condition is no longer possible as Constantinople or Ephesus will always grow to 12 or more. (screenshots below)

2. As AP has already reported to you, Arabia experiences early instability for no apparent reason now. After several attempts I have got to 1000AD without losing a city due to instability but look how the negative no. has increased. If I hadn't captured Alexandria and gained another star for expansion I'd have lost a city again. Look at the 2 stars for cities and economy. And that's after building 3 Wonders and the Heroic Epic. Something is wrong here. I've always been stable or solid at this stage before. (screenshots below).
I have included saved games as well.

Actually my Arab stability was even better (since I didn't change civics so it was only -2) and I had 3 stars for happiness. In fact, I had 3 stars for all of them (economy was -10), but the numbers don't add up (I got -25 by 850 AD) and with each successive declaration of independence it went down by 3. I took a chance to switch to OR and serfdom and that just made me collapse(-50).

I think building wonders should help. By 1100 I had built 11 of them: Marco Polo, Uppsala, Round Church, Cluny, Notre Dame, Crak, Mezquita, Tomb of Khalid (this one cost me quite a bit because I kept losing monuments!), the 3 Knight corporations (Templar, Hospitaller and St John--all founded with priests from Constantinople which was another reason to kill the Byzantines early), besides the ones I captured or founded in the religious cities providing plenty of cash. I was building Dome of the Rock, Golden Bull and Magna Carta after I got Divine Right when I just gave up after another faux collapse. They should definitely give at least 2-3 permanent stability points per wonder in future versions.

I hear you on Wonders giving stability. That makes sense, and is planned to happen in the next version. It looks like there are also some bugs in the rest of the stability code. I need a bit longer to debug it though.

The 1st Cordoba UHV is still quite possible. I researched Manorialism first (for farms), then Vaulted Arches (for smokehouse), and then some techs which allowed happiness. I had to focus a bit on the goal, but reached size 14 before 1000 AD, and the next largest cities in the world were only size 10 (though I admit that you will sometimes see cities up to size 11 or 12). I would definitely avoid the Civic Manorialism (-1 food from farms kills you) -- probably not historically accurate for Cordoba anyway.

I hear you on Wonders giving stability. That makes sense, and is planned to happen in the next version. It looks like there are also some bugs in the rest of the stability code. I need a bit longer to debug it though.

The 1st Cordoba UHV is still quite possible. I researched Manorialism first (for farms), then Vaulted Arches (for smokehouse), and then some techs which allowed happiness. I had to focus a bit on the goal, but reached size 14 before 1000 AD, and the next largest cities in the world were only size 10 (though I admit that you will sometimes see cities up to size 11 or 12). I would definitely avoid the Civic Manorialism (-1 food from farms kills you) -- probably not historically accurate for Cordoba anyway.

I'm glad you were able to do it. I had forgotten about the food penalty for Manorialism. That makes a big difference. I'll try that again. But you do see what we're saying about Arabian instability. I've never had a problem with that before.

Cultured is spelled wrong in France's second UHV on the starting screen. "cultued"

I HATE the art for the Enrico Dandolo guy in charge of Venice. I'd actually rather have Abraham Lincoln as Pietro II Orsolo

If not that, we could have like a still portrait (like in Charlemagne, or Greekworld, Desert War in the older civ games).

I think a picture of me would be better than this scary, possessed looking grandpa guy. ANYTHING but this.

The behavior you report for Islam is not the consequence of moving Organized Religion later, I promise you that. It is possibly an accidental result of some OTHER change. I will have to investigate.

I am not going to unilaterally revert all the changes I spent the last two weeks working on. However, I do hear and appreciate your concerns. I would also like to hear opinions from other people.

Several people had complained about the lack of interesting strategic options for the starting civs with too many things available. After playing many such starts, I agreed with them and made some changes which I think make for more interesting choices -- they certainly make the game more enjoyable for me. I disagree that this is "...a disastrous growth inhibitor for the early civs." The early civs seem to be doing fine in test games, and the worker techs just aren't that far into the tree. Plantations coming before farms does seem a little funny.

@AP: A food-for-military units civic would be an interesting strategic choice. I (or someone else, the Civics XML file is easy to edit) would have to run some test games to see how it plays in practice.

Sorry to disagree with you, but the French and Burgundians are frankly extremely crippled by the inavailability of Farms, specifically, from the beginning. (This probably hurts other civs, too, but it's been most notable with France.)

In eight loads of Ottoman starts on the new version, in all eight France had collapsed (and sometimes respawned), and in none did they even come close to controlling all of their historical territory, or even all of their historical territory except Burgundy. Burgundy was previously crippled by the old stability bug, so it's hard to tell how it's been impacted, but France should be one of the strongest competitors in the game. Instead, it's a total non-factor in every game I've loaded under the new patch.

Sorry to disagree with you, but the French and Burgundians are frankly extremely crippled by the inavailability of Farms, specifically, from the beginning. (This probably hurts other civs, too, but it's been most notable with France.)

In eight loads of Ottoman starts on the new version, in all eight France had collapsed (and sometimes respawned), and in none did they even come close to controlling all of their historical territory, or even all of their historical territory except Burgundy. Burgundy was previously crippled by the old stability bug, so it's hard to tell how it's been impacted, but France should be one of the strongest competitors in the game. Instead, it's a total non-factor in every game I've loaded under the new patch.

I stand corrected. But France collapsing is more to do with Burgundy remaining strong then anything else. France researches manorialism and builds farms just about as quick as before.

I've found one bug in the interaction of the Arab UP with stability that was causing them to rack up bad instability. It remains to be seen if fixing this will restore them to viability.

When I try to start RFCE with the newest patch (alpha 3) I get an error message saying CIV4 isn't responding. I got the same message when I tried to start it before updating to 3.19 so I thought it would solve it, but I still get the message.

- Does regular civ work.
- You must have 3.19 installed, otherwise RFCEurope will not work.
- Completely remove the Beyond the Sword\Mods\RFCEurope folder and then redownload the mod and reinstall it.
- Le me know if there are still problems.

Done all that before posting, still problems.

Done all that before posting, still problems.

zip and post the folder My Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\Logs (right after the crash I mean)

Here ya go.

got a weird bug:
if u zoom out to the satellite view normally theres a small panel wich allows u to select some options for the chosen layer. (e.g. draw lines, or just show strategic resources(
but i got no panel to switch through the options O.o someone else has this issue, if so it might comes along with 3.19

I just tried playing RFC with the new patch and it gives the same problem. The weird thing is that I was playing a game as Germany in RFC and in the middle of it I patched the game to 3.19 (but not the new RFC patch) and it kept on working, I'll try deleting and then redownloading RFC and RFCE completely and let you know if it's working.

RFCE alpha requires BtS 3.19, it will not work otherwise.

I am not sure about RFC, those are separate mods (i.e. it makes no difference which RFC and RFCE combination you have). I don't know abut RFC working or not.

I am not sure about the global view. I would try to see if it works for regular civ and RFC as well (RFC and RFCE share some code and sometimes have common bugs).

Yes as I said I updated to 3.19 in the middle of the RFC Germany game, and noticed the "bug" happening in RFCE before updating to 3.19, so I did update and the bug is still there.
Now I ran BTS and clicked on "about this build" and it says 3.17! Seems it had a problem or something updating last time I did it, I'll update again and see if it says 3.19 as it should.

RFCE Alpha 3 would not work with 3.17. Make sure you upgrade BtS properly, if regulr BtS is not working as supposed to, then RFCE wouldn't.

Yes the problem was that patching in-game just didn't work. I looked for the patch file in Gogle and installed it and now everything is working fine, currently playing Spain and having a blast conquering Iberia :).

This may have already been brought up, but in my game as Hungary, I noticed I had a -1 Diplo. with the Pope for declaring war on his friend. I was confused, as I havn't declared war on anyone.... Except Indy. Ragusa.

So yeah, just wondering if this is going to be fixed or left as is.

This may have already been brought up, but in my game as Hungary, I noticed I had a -1 Diplo. with the Pope for declaring war on his friend. I was confused, as I havn't declared war on anyone.... Except Indy. Ragusa.

So yeah, just wondering if this is going to be fixed or left as is.

I agree. The whole question of the role of the Pope and the player's relationship to him should be the next major issue we tackle, at least before we think of going beta IMO.

some bugs I've found while playing:

The skirmishers and some other mounted units (i.e. the teutonic knights) become pink, if they are paused.

Gustavs eyelids are pink, also he looks pretty ill, imo.

Aztec/Inka Conquest can be built multiple times

playing the kievans, my citizens claimed, that they don't want to fight against brothers in faith, but I only had war with one or two independant cities (if at all) and the mongols. (which didn't conquere any city of mine)

no real bug or sth, but please move the fish north of Gdansk into their fatcross. It can't be used anyway else.

Often cities don't use best towns but water tiles or smaller settlements -> a lot of micromanegement for me and less commerce for the ai. This is a bug introduced by RFCE.

Would be nice to fix the building wealth bug, the game is shipped with, too. Whenever you build wealth the city tries to grow and does not use production to actually build most possible wealth.

bye Myri

This bug is resolved in the Unofficial patches / Better AI mod not long ago I believe. Maybe we should take a look at that.

Well sometimes it seems that the AI wants the city to grow first and then focus on production, it figures this is best for long-term.

Very annoying bug: game freezes every time I hit an axe button :(

By axe I assume you mean the mercenary button? If so try Alt+M, it's a shortcut to the mercenary screen.

This bug is resolved in the Unofficial patches / Better AI mod not long ago I believe. Maybe we should take a look at that.

This is the thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=325377

Here are the most consistent bugs that has happened every time I play. (I turn on the traceback thingee that makes these windows pop up)

This happens whenever I start or load a game. When I click it away, there are no clickable buttons, so I hit the Windows button and then go back into Civ4 and the interface appears.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221273&stc=1&d=1247857259

This happens whenever the last bank corporation is founded, not usually by Genoa. It doesn't matter if it's the AI or the human that does it (in this case it was the German AI that founded it).
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221274&stc=1&d=1247857259

If all corporations have been founded and Genoa has not founded 2, mark the Genoa's UHV as failed. This part of the script is bugged, the rest apparently works. I will fix it. Thanks.

Popup said taking over crusade would cost 285 g, why not, but went from 1045 to -635 g, that's a little more.

bye Myri

Popup said taking over crusade would cost 285 g, why not, but went from 1045 to -635 g, that's a little more.

bye Myri

Bug, will fix.

This is actually not a small bug since it will make a lot of difference in game play. Whenever you inherit a city with plague already in it (e.g. Cordoba inherits Tanjah, or Turkey inherits one of the Byzantine cities), the plague will never go away since it's already "built"--i.e. it'll never grow.

This is actually not a small bug since it will make a lot of difference in game play. Whenever you inherit a city with plague already in it (e.g. Cordoba inherits Tanjah, or Turkey inherits one of the Byzantine cities), the plague will never go away since it's already "built"--i.e. it'll never grow.

Did you get those cities on spawn or conquest?

Tangier flipped to me with plague, no plaque in Cordoba, no other way to get the city healthy than opening worldbuilder and removing plaque.

I doubt anyone would conquer a plagued city :)

bye Myri

Tangier flipped to me with plague, no plaque in Cordoba, no other way to get the city healthy than opening worldbuilder and removing plaque.

I doubt anyone would conquer a plagued city :)

bye Myri

I had done that, it is the best way to get a repeated plague.

There was a bug with plague on flip and I fixed it for the next version, I hope there is no other bug.

Spanish +2 EP do not show up in espionage screen -> no +2 EP. Works fine in city view and domestic advisor, but won't help.

bye Myri

Spanish +2 EP do not show up in espionage screen -> no +2 EP. Works fine in city view and domestic advisor, but won't help.

bye Myri

Yes it does that. It is a low priority bug.

If know you were working on the Pope's relationship with other players for the next version, but could you fix one obvious bug that I find annoying? Every time you build or capture a city near Italy you get the message that the people are yearning to belong to Rome and if you gave the city to the Pope he would be really pleased with you. The Papacy is a non-playing civ and is not supposed to own cities other than Rome, anyway.

On the same note, there should be no indy homeland (I get 2 angry faces initially when conquering indy cities in emperor).
Just pulled a game in monarch and saw all kinds of indy cities (Frankfurt, Lublin, Prague, Grodno). If you can allow at least 50% of these indy cities to survive in emperor, you would have balanced the barbs just right.

I disagree, there should be indy homeland, it's a minor country, just not named. Cities from a collapsed nation should switch to indy population, not 100 % population of the conqueror.

Portugal can't build knight of aviz / maceman. Fought Cordoba for 250 years, long swords really suck vs arbalests.

bye Myri

Play nice and maybe France will give you civil service (they did for me). Very interesting development--a superior AI civ giving me a tech like pitying me.

So this vast indyland is so disparately located that its constituents are Tunis, Naples, former Byzantine Alexandria and Minsk? They must the the first "pan-Europeans." :eek:

Sorry, mistake, Knight of Aviz comes with chivalry.

One or a few indi cities are a minor country. The 4 indi nations is just game mechanics.

A few times got free tech, too.

bye Myri

The ai chops timber, can't build lumbermill later.

bye Myri

I chop timber too, just build a fort on it later. (The ones in Spain, Calais and Normandy aren't very suitable places to build cities, so it doesn't matter for me)

But I agree, the AI should try not to chop since they don't know how to use forts when the resource is within their workable tiles. That's why Arabia never has timber even though it's around Sour.

I chop timber too, just build a fort on it later. (The ones in Spain, Calais and Normandy aren't very suitable places to build cities, so it doesn't matter for me)

But I agree, the AI should try not to chop since they don't know how to use forts when the resource is within their workable tiles. That's why Arabia never has timber even though it's around Sour.

Timber should either be allowed only on Thick unchopable forest or Limber Mills should be allowed on Timber with or without Forest (just like mines are allowed on grassland for Iron and Copper).

RFC v1.186 for BTS, July 23th

- UHV text now completely displayed in victory panel

Get it! :)

bye Myri

RFC v1.186 for BTS, July 23th

- UHV text now completely displayed in victory panel

Get it! :)

bye Myri

I will see if I can borrow the code.

RFC v1.186 for BTS, July 23th

- UHV text now completely displayed in victory panel

Get it! :)

bye Myri

Are you sure, I just downloaded it and I am playing as Egypt and I don't see the entire wonder UHV.

You might want to do a quick revision of the RFC concepts Religion entry in the civilopedia, you'll find three or so spelling errors.

Also, I've mentioned this before but it never got fixed, Spain (among other civs sometimes) always auto-plays an extra turn and starts at 912. Every time. :rolleyes:

Are you sure, I just downloaded it and I am playing as Egypt and I don't see the entire wonder UHV.

Just read it, did not play.

bye Myri

I've always wondered about when you a build a colony it says "You have built East Africa" or whatever but it doesn't appear in the event log or is included your city build box or the info screen. But wonders and corporations are included (see screenshots) everywhere. Can't we have this apply to the colonies and trading companies? It would really help in checking what has been built by whom and what hasn't, wouldn't it?

I've always wondered about when you a build a colony it says "You have built East Africa" or whatever but it doesn't appear in the event log or is included your city build box or the info screen. But wonders and corporations are included (see screenshots) everywhere. Can't we have this apply to the colonies and trading companies? It would really help in checking what has been built by whom and what hasn't, wouldn't it?

On the info screen, to the top right, there is a drop down menu to select between Wonders, National Wonders and Projects. Colonies should appear under Projects.

On the info screen, to the top right, there is a drop down menu to select between Wonders, National Wonders and Projects. Colonies should appear under Projects.

Sorry. I've never noticed that before. Thanks. But colonies are still not listed in the city build box like wonders and corporations are. Is there some way to fix that?

There seems to be an Arabian bug: they have a +7 relationship with me (me being Christian in one form or another) despite them being Islamic. (Hey, we all believe in one true God, don't we? :lol:)

There seems to be an Arabian bug: they have a +7 relationship with me (me being Christian in one form or another) despite them being Islamic. (Hey, we all believe in one true God, don't we? :lol:)

Who are you and do you get a list of the items (i.e. +1 for Peace have brought out people together ... )

Sorry. I've never noticed that before. Thanks. But colonies are still not listed in the city build box like wonders and corporations are. Is there some way to fix that?

Projects do nto belong to any individual city, but are part of the entire nation. You cannot lose a colony if someone captures your city, you may not rush a Colony with Great Engineer and you can build colonies in non Coastal cities. Colonies do not belong to any individual city and hence they can only be seen in the info scree of the nation.

Projects do nto belong to any individual city, but are part of the entire nation. You cannot lose a colony if someone captures your city, you may not rush a Colony with Great Engineer and you can build colonies in non Coastal cities. Colonies do not belong to any individual city and hence they can only be seen in the info scree of the nation.

Nuff said. I guess I never thought of that either. Thanks again.:D

Who are you and do you get a list of the items (i.e. +1 for Peace have brought out people together ... )

I was France, no contact with the Arabians until I got on Crusade, then met Arabia for the first time (at war) but still have the +7.

2nd time I was Kiev, initially +7 but also some - due to different religion. Then they got pleased because Burgundy declared war on them and I was at war with Burgundy forever, to the point where Saladin was willing to trade me incense for my cathedrals and salt for my cows and bread.:)

If this is not a bug, it's a good thing.

Austrian Unit Kurassier, it's Kürassier, if necessary Kuerassier. And it's just a translation of Cuirassier.

If you can't write ü, ö, ä, ß it's (today, there was no ascii 7 in the middle ages) ue, oe, ae, ss.

bye Myri

If you want a special cacalry for Austria that is actually special maybe take Ulan, a mounted pikeman.

bye Myri

If you want a special cacalry for Austria that is actually special maybe take Ulan, a mounted pikeman.

bye Myri

Yes. It could replace the Lancer. Cheap and available from the start.

Yes. It could replace the Lancer. Cheap and available from the start.

Lancers come too early for Austria, should be Heavy Lancer or even Knight.

Lancers come too early for Austria, should be Heavy Lancer or even Knight.

Then it shoud be the Heavy Lancer.

Just read there were polish Ulan regiments earlier. Thought the name was from the polish "volunteers" in the austrian army but it's from the mongols / tartars that settled in Litauen (later east Poland). Maybe not the best idea than? But at least Austria first used them with success.

Ulans are modern (early 18th century - world war 2) light cavalry, a pistolier with a lance comes close, or a modern keshik.

bye Myri

Just read there were polish Ulan regiments earlier. Thought the name was from the polish "volunteers" in the austrian army but it's from the mongols / tartars that settled in Litauen (later east Poland). Maybe not the best idea than? But at least Austria first used them with success.

Ulans are modern (early 18th century - world war 2) light cavalry, a pistolier with a lance comes close, or a modern keshik.

bye Myri

If Poland was not a nation of its own, then Polish unit would be fine as UU of any appropriate nation (Hungary, Austria and so on), similar to the Nubian Cavalry of Carthage. The problem is, if Ulans were polish, then how eexctly would it work to send them to conquer Poland? We might have to think of something else.

I think all Ulans of the 18th century were polish, Napoleon used polish Ulans, too. Later all modern armies had Ulans not from Poland.

Gebirgsjäger (mounteneers?, i don't know) comes to mind. Leopold I. 1315 lost the battle of Morgarten vs swiss troops who knowed how to fight in the mountains. No idea if he learned anything from that but in modern times Austrian Gebirgsjäger were a special force. Could be a maceman with guerilla promotions, not bad vs Venice, Germany and Poland.

bye Myri