This here thread is for pointing out where my best intentions have gone horribly wrong.

Please post any bugs you encounter with as much detail about how it happened and possibly even a savegame. I'll fix what I can when I can :)

For OOS related issues, please read this post: OOS Logger (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4609835&postcount=7). Then include the OOS log file as an attachment so we can figure out what caused the issue.


Changes slotted for next release

Fixed a CtD caused when a unit tries to go Barbarian and has Loyalty
Units will again be able to capture other units in combat


Reported Bugs not solved

Instant OOS if a Human makes an attack with Patch E or later DLL
Kylorin Monument appears not to be applying health bonus
Korrina the Red Lady can accept Headless Promotion
Aggressive & Guardsman are giving free promotions to more unitcombats than advertised
Werewolf Promotion doesn't create new Werewolves, it just marks race (Actually not a bug, just something which would be nice to make the Foxford results more worthwhile)
After gaining promotions while exploring Lairs, occasionally unit cycling fails to work for the affected unit
Fawns can get default races that make no sense for them (possibly need their own racial promotion, elemental may be suitable)
Volcanoes are cleared by Hell Terrain (due to being a Feature). Need Hell Routine to replace any tile with a Volcano with a Mountain (or even better, make it make all Mountains and Volcanoes into Volcanoes and some base Hell, possibly Burning Sands if it proves memory capable)
Dowsing is not buildable
Cualli Assassins show wrong model
Scions Archer unit is only 1/3 proper model
UnitStatistics is not recording data
Barbarian World setting slows down between turn times dramatically
Some Unique Features are being deleted at game start
Combat Log still not disabled by default
Metal Weapon Promotions can be carried into units not capable of using them
Double check that Ice hands out free Ice 1 for having 2 mana, not 3


Cosmetic Issues

Mazatl Assassins lack unique graphic
Would be nice to have a choice on letting Raiders units auto-pillage or having them leave the terrain alone
Danmos's Declare War text key is missing.


Base Code Issues to figure out

Some events can happen in the same place twice in a game when it makes no sense to do so (monument inscription, etc)
It is possible to enslave and capture a unit at the same time, getting 2 units from 1
Unit Pathing doesn't properly account for reduced terrain costs when only part of the stack has the benefit
No text to announce when a building casts an automated spell between turns
Decius Leader Picture in the Civilopedia cannot be clicked to link to Decius
Barbarian Cities can spawn in locations cities are not buildable
Illusions only heal after KILLING a Living unit, which means they can only heal on defense.
Tile Art doesn't update with the Dowsing Ritual to show/hide the NIF of the resource



Updated through Post 112

using vista,

crashing as soon as i try to start a game, load does not go past the init.
(in both sp and mp games)

( deleted .34FFH and old versions of FF, reinstalled FFH .34, patch H, and even re'DL'd .43 just in case had a bad DL, also made sure to run the installer and game as both admin and user)

If anyone is using Vista and CAN get the mod to work, please let me know. I just did a complete fresh install myself to check if there is a fundamental issue with the released version and things work fine, but I don't have access to a Vista machine to test things on that end of the spectrum.

XP SP3

It crashed after loading,and can load the AutoSave_Initial when restart

Another question,I use Sabathiel,but my warriors don't have the guardsman promotion

If anyone is using Vista and CAN get the mod to work, please let me know. I just did a complete fresh install myself to check if there is a fundamental issue with the released version and things work fine, but I don't have access to a Vista machine to test things on that end of the spectrum.
Thanks Xien, i remember this happened with the last version of FF until u fixed some kink in the prog.:)
I am in IRC if u want to ask me any questions bout it.

If anyone is using Vista and CAN get the mod to work, please let me know. I just did a complete fresh install myself to check if there is a fundamental issue with the released version and things work fine, but I don't have access to a Vista machine to test things on that end of the spectrum.
By chance are you a student at a college, even half a unit?
If so M$ hands out a free copy of 2k8--which for most fundamental purposes works as vista. Except wireless drivers. Dont expect wireless drivers to do CRAP on it... *grumbles*
(Although, outside the USA I recall which colleges is somewhat limited... not actually sure where your from )

If not. Hm. XD

I own Vista, bought this computer in the "transition period" where you got it with XP, but could get Vista upgrade for free. I just haven't seen good enough of a reason to swap over yet (even though it is a tablet PC and most of the nice things I have heard about Vista involve Tablets).


Verified the elsewhere reported issue with Guardsman Trait not working. I am not yet suure why/how that is happening, the trait is obviously loading onto the player (shows on flag mouseover), it just isn't doing the whole promotion thing properly. Any other traits seem buggy? (especially in regards to giving out free promotions...)

Well. I did have either HORRIBLE luck with mutation, or its acting up a little.

I got about 50%, no promotions outa it on freaks.

And the few promotions I did see on the rest seemed highly redundant, heavy, light, and resistances....


But knowing me that could be just luck.

I reinstalled the FFH2034h and FF043,and also crashed after setuping map finished when a new game was create

EDIT:I click my mouse after setuping map finished to skip the pictures at the beginning of game,and don't crash any more

Playing as the Calabim. 0.43 - no patch.

No buildable barracks. Once i get BW i three buildings show up in my build options on city screen all labeled Training Yard. Once i build one of them the others disappear as options but no barracks.

Uh... A little help here? I launched .43 for the first time, then started up a game and... the HUD doesn't show up! There's just the map, units and no interfaces - no minimap, no action icons... not even a Civilipedia button... Help!
I have Vista, playing as the Scions. Does that matter?

Playing as the Calabim. 0.43 - no patch.

No buildable barracks. Once i get BW i three buildings show up in my build options on city screen all labeled Training Yard. Once i build one of them the others disappear as options but no barracks.
I researched Warfare and there was 3 Training Yard options to build

Running Vista Business +SP1

I CTD every time I try to start a game, sometime during the loading process, sometimes when the pictures come up..

Also crashing on map load using vista

Playing as the Calabim. 0.43 - no patch.

No buildable barracks. Once i get BW i three buildings show up in my build options on city screen all labeled Training Yard. Once i build one of them the others disappear as options but no barracks.

Fixed for Patch A - silly error on my part.

Running Vista Business +SP1

I CTD every time I try to start a game, sometime during the loading process, sometimes when the pictures come up..

I researched Warfare and there was 3 Training Yard options to build

Also crashing on map load using vista

We're trying to sort out access to a Vista machine for testing purposes at the moment - we'll keep you updated.

Fixed for Patch A - silly error on my part.







We're trying to sort out access to a Vista machine for testing purposes at the moment - we'll keep you updated.

Thanks for looking into this so quickly Vehem, xien and others :)

Not sure if this is intentional or not, but exploring a Giant Steading (Seems awful like a citadel to me) removes it like lairs. Now, I don't know if this is a bug, but I think it's a little odd that a citadel like that just up and vanishes from looking around (And I think the benefit of having a citadel, especially holding a choke-point to my capital at the beginning of the game, outweighs the band of orcs I got from it. XD)

Does the adventure promotion work?I have explored lairs and dungeons many times,and the adventure promotion seems no effect

Started a game with the Scions. First thing I noticed was that every turn took much longer than vanilla FfH. I didn't turn on simultaneous turns, btw.

Also, the worker promotions are inverted compared to FfH. Since the icons aren't all that different, I picked the wrong one the first time.

I reinstalled the FFH2034h and FF043,and also crashed after setuping map finished when a new game was create

EDIT:I click my mouse after setuping map finished to skip the pictures at the beginning of game,and don't crash any more

Great to hear that it isn't immediately crashing on a Vista machine. Can you try to disable movies in the .ini and options files and see if that helps? Seems off that it would crash to very early if this is the issue, but so far it's the only lead we have :)

Uh... A little help here? I launched .43 for the first time, then started up a game and... the HUD doesn't show up! There's just the map, units and no interfaces - no minimap, no action icons... not even a Civilipedia button... Help!
I have Vista, playing as the Scions. Does that matter?

Try pressing CTRL + I and see if anything happens.

# Occasional Goody Huts give nothing and just erase themselves
I believe that's a vanilla 'issue'; basically, the goody hut code picks from a list of all possible outcomes (for the relevant difficulty setting), not just all valid ones for the situation. If it hits one which can't be applied (for instance, healing your unit) then it tries again, but it only does this a limited number of times (presumably to avoid a potential infiinite loop) before giving up - that's when the hut just vanishes.

Alternatively, that might just be Foxford - the disappearing graphic triggers every time a unit moves onto it.

You are correct, the Goody selection process only checks for goodies that work a number of times as defined in NUM_DO_GOODY_ATTEMPTS global value. Mildly curious why they don't make a list of which possible goodies are actually valid for the player then select from only that list, but haven't seen such a function in the DLL anywhere thus far.

It should be fairly rare that this point is hit, so for now I have just added a message to indicate that it is indeed what happened. Then if it continues to be reported, we know something else is actually going on.

Playing the Austin I wasn't able to build neither Barracks nor Hunting Lodge replacement (can't remember its name now). After patch A I was able to build the Barracks but the Hunting Lodge isn't available yet.

Edit: checking the xml file I found out that Exploration Guild requires Cartography. So my mistake.

Maybe I'm missing something, or maybe it hasn't been implemented yet, but I'm unable to find anyway to build the Temple of the Gift with the Scions, but there are a number of units which depend on it. Any ideas?

just played my second game with the scions.
Always after I got an awakened I emediately got a second one the turn after.
This didnt happen in my first game. I intstalled patch A for the second game.

And its kind of harder to select a city by clicking on its name. it just doesnt lite up like it should sometimes.

hmm... vehem, after patch a , it is not crashing on the init now, its crashing after the load game is almost complete. fyi

just played my second game with the scions.
Always after I got an awakened I emediately got a second one the turn after.
This didnt happen in my first game. I intstalled patch A for the second game.

And its kind of harder to select a city by clicking on its name. it just doesnt lite up like it should sometimes.

Awakened spawn at complete random based on several factors; it's not unreasonable to get two in a row.

Maybe I'm missing something, or maybe it hasn't been implemented yet, but I'm unable to find anyway to build the Temple of the Gift with the Scions, but there are a number of units which depend on it. Any ideas?

Should be Code of Laws. Although if you are playing as Alexi (er... whatever her new name is; The Protector), I think she is barred from that particular building and everything it enables, because she is not Agnostic.

If patch A cleared up some of the Vista issues then it is XML typos. So somewhere there is still a small glitch which XP ignores and Vista whines about.

Bugger.


Damn typos are hard to find, and you cannot just train yourself not to use them.

If patch A cleared up some of the Vista issues then it is XML typos. So somewhere there is still a small glitch which XP ignores and Vista whines about.

Bugger.


Damn typos are hard to find, and you cannot just train yourself not to use them.


Gremlins in the code…”vistucks” my word for describing vista probs

hope can find um soon, i soooooo want to try this out :p

I got alwaystwo awakened units in a row. everytime one spawned a second would follow.

cosmetic issue: when adding items to be built, the lower part of the interface disappear.

195153

edit: playing patch a

patch a: settlers can start mutated if you have chaos mana. it kinda sucks when new settler goes barbarian, bacause it's crazed/enraged:sad:

I have no HUD display for tech advancement on top and my tech tree is all red. stays this way for multiple turns into the game. reinstallation of both FF(patch a) an FFH(patch h)does not fix. suggestions?

roderus, you have a hidden gameoption enabled unfortunately. Start a new game using PLAY NOW to clear all your saved gameoptions. You can quit that game as soon as it finishes loading and start a new one.

Bang On! Working now. Thxs for the tip.

Should be Code of Laws. Although if you are playing as Korrina... I think she is barred from that particular building and everything it enables, because she is not Agnostic.

My guess, too, but that's not it. The civlopedia says both the TotGift and the Imperial Cenotaph are unbuildable by any civilization.

Xienwolf/Vehem: It was working OK in the first internal.

EDIT: Looks like the buildings need specific mention in CivilizationInfos.

Also: Is there any reason not to make the "Patrian Bazaar" a "Money Changer" UU? Currently the Scions don't have a Money Changer but get access to the P. Bazzaar at Currency. This *is* the way I set it up quite awhile ago. And while l assume there was a point then ATM I don't see a reason for it.

That probably means it is due to the iUnique tag in BuildingInfos and a failure to declare the building as buildable in CivilizationInfos. I warned you that I wasn't familiar with all their buildings yet :)

patch A.
Archos cannot buld Barracks etc...
Unit Brute and Chosen requires Barracks...

:)

Something very bad might happen if I don't head for the kitchen ASAP, but I think this is what's needed in CivilizationInfos. I'll check it if/when I get back.


<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_TEMPLE_OF_THE_GIFT</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_TEMPLE_OF_THE_GIFT</BuildingType>
</Building>
<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_IMPERIAL_CENOTAPH</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_IMPERIAL_CENOTAPH</BuildingType>
</Building>
<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_VACANT_MAUSOLEUM</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_VACANT_MAUSOLEUM</BuildingType>
</Building>
<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_FLESH_STUDIO</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_FLESH_STUDIO</BuildingType>
</Building>

patch A.
Archos cannot buld Barracks etc...
Unit Brute and Chosen requires Barracks...

It used to be the case that if a unit required "BUILDINGCLASS_BARRACKS" (or "BUILDINGCLASS_TRAININGYARD" as it was), but the civilization had NONE set for that building, it ignored the requirement - did that change with 034 Xien?

Those that have no HUD just tab in and out... that fixes it..
when i first downloaded and played it got me to that point... but my units were given unlimited promotions... on turn 2 after setting up my city in turn one but this was with flavor mod on...
delete and reinstalled ff2 4.3 and h patch and reinstalled ff then the problem was it was not getting out of the map generation (1/3 of the bar progress).

patch a still has not fixed anything...

Yes, Kael removed that work-around when placing UU's which didn't require a building at all in the Doviello slots.

Bradeline's Well had no Entropy Mana when I started my first game...

I got alwaystwo awakened units in a row. everytime one spawned a second would follow.

I just tried to reproduce that and couldn't. (R.E., added some spawn-increasing buildings via worldbuilder). I've no idea what might be causing that - unless your capital's population is 105 or greater.

What Leader are you using? Any other settings you can think of that might be relevant?

must have been pure luck, happened 4 times in a row. i loaded an old autosave and its normal now.

Just downloaded FF043 and patch A and I'm running vista. Initially it took a abnormally long time for map generation and when the game started up there was no HUD. That was fixed by just tabbing out and back in. Now the problem is that map generation doesn't go past 1/3 of the bar.

ive got vista and patch a means i am able to start a game, but there is no interface. i can still play though hotkeys but thats no fun. especially with scions who i have no idea how they work lol

EDIT: to my amazement , when i alt tabed back into my scion game the interface was there! WOOT!

EDIT 2: im getting -1243074 gold a turn O_O on turn 47

EDIT 3: all my units have infinite Experience, able to get every single promotion on turn 1.

EDIT 4: cannot explore barrows (no option to explore) or dungeons (explore spell greyed out)

EDIT 5: my score is always zero.

Error when playing Scions with a friend. We both played Scions, and both had our own Alcinus. We both built the Thaumaturge's Keep, and when Alcinus died and came back to each of us, we could then rebuild the Keep in our cities.
I built the keep a total of four times times, two of the times were in the same city, which just enhanced the original Keep. I also lost a city with the keep in it to Alcinus when he turned barbarian, and the Keep remained in the city, but without the Mana bonuses or any other extra buildings attached to it.

Also not sure if this is a problem, but I received 17 Awakened units where as he only received 6-7 Awakened Units.

Error when playing Scions with a friend. We both played Scions, and both had our own Alcinus. We both built the Thaumaturge's Keep, and when Alcinus died and came back to each of us, we could then rebuild the Keep in our cities.
I built the keep a total of four times times, two of the times were in the same city, which just enhanced the original Keep. I also lost a city with the keep in it to Alcinus when he turned barbarian, and the Keep remained in the city, but without the Mana bonuses or any other extra buildings attached to it.

Also not sure if this is a problem, but I received 17 Awakened units where as he only received 6-7 Awakened Units.

The awakened spawn randomly, with the chance adjusted by certain buildings and resources. There used to be a spawn chance announcement each turn, but it appears to have been left out... Love to see it in again lol.

The Alcinus exploit, however, sounds like a serious bug...

ive got vista and patch a means i am able to start a game, but there is no interface. i can still play though hotkeys but thats no fun. especially with scions who i have no idea how they work lol

EDIT: to my amazement , when i alt tabed back into my scion game the interface was there! WOOT!

EDIT 2: im getting -1243074 gold a turn O_O on turn 47

EDIT 3: all my units have infinite Experience, able to get every single promotion on turn 1.

EDIT 4: cannot explore barrows (no option to explore) or dungeons (explore spell greyed out)

EDIT 5: my score is always zero.



Same here.
--I ran the game for quite a while and noticed all units in the game show the 'gained a level' effect.

--My capitol was just two squares north of a barrows and when a skeleton spawned it moved north to attack and turned into a spectre just prior to attacking.

--When goblin archers attacked, the warning given about enemies stayed on the square when they moved and a new one was displayed at their next location and so on, till they the expired attacking my nearly invincible level 100 warrior.

Well, gota say, shes been holding together well. But we did finaly get an OOS at 3:30am...

Forgot the turn. But here it is. Me and Merd

In that same game, apparently, even after 130 someodd turns (Normal speed) I can't re-explore the Broken Sepulcher; though it says, "City must work to become Broken Sepulcher" on it. It's in my cultural borders, but does it have to be worked by an actual citizen? Honestly, I'd think that'd, as far as logic goes, make it NOT become a dungeon again. XD

Somehow, though, I don't think it's supposed to need that, thus the message about it here.

Error when playing Scions with a friend. We both played Scions, and both had our own Alcinus. We both built the Thaumaturge's Keep, and when Alcinus died and came back to each of us, we could then rebuild the Keep in our cities.

Yikes! Thought I had that bug quashed. Obviously not... xienwolf seems to have a solid fix for it, though.
EDIT: I was able to apply xienwolf's idea in a workaround, with good results. The update should incorporate a proper fix.


the Keep remained in the city, but without the Mana bonuses or any other extra buildings attached to it.

I'll look into that...

im not getting any ui. ive downloaded both ffh2 and ff several times but im still not getting it to show.

Well, gota say, shes been holding together well. But we did finaly get an OOS at 3:30am...

Forgot the turn. But here it is. Me and Merd

In that same game, apparently, even after 130 someodd turns (Normal speed) I can't re-explore the Broken Sepulcher; though it says, "City must work to become Broken Sepulcher" on it. It's in my cultural borders, but does it have to be worked by an actual citizen? Honestly, I'd think that'd, as far as logic goes, make it NOT become a dungeon again. XD

Somehow, though, I don't think it's supposed to need that, thus the message about it here.

I need both logs to be of any use :)

FF 043 patch B , game crashes on initializing but I have vista so that's just normal :D

the new combat log gameoption is slightly messed up: I guess the "WARNING" part should be red, instead of "255,0,0,255-something WARNING" ;)

looking forward for a vista-compatible patch, thanks a lot to the whole ff team for this new version. :)

Try pressing CTRL + I and see if anything happens.

Nothing happens. I still can't get the interface to show up.

Nothing happens. I still can't get the interface to show up.

Vista or XP? Have had a few people report much the same as you are getting with Vista, still working on that one.

Patched up to B, on XP, my favourite GP bar still isn't showing! :cry:
lol~

Vista-
No Interface [yea you've heard]
but also, no saving, whenever a save is attempted the message 'Cannot compress game data' comes up. I am using through steam as well, though, so crazy things happen.

It found the install path perfectly though, huzzah!

Another small bug, i've picked up a traveller's cape from a treasure chest. However, another unit that tried to pick it up from the current owner has a pink box over where the cape icon should have been. ;)

Patch B, XP

When I started playing a game as the Scions, I decided that I didn't like the starting position very much and so moved the settler to settle on the second turn. When the event that always happens on the first turn and creates those 2 heroes occurred, the game couldn't figure out where to put them (as I had no cities) and the game promptly crashed.

When I started playing a game as the Scions, I decided that I didn't like the starting position very much and so moved the settler to settle on the second turn. When the event that always happens on the first turn and creates those 2 heroes occurred, the game couldn't figure out where to put them (as I had no cities) and the game promptly crashed.

Sounds like some of the Scions code got mangled; that event never used to trigger until you founded your first city...

When the event that always happens on the first turn and creates those 2 heroes occurred, the game couldn't figure out where to put them (as I had no cities) and the game promptly crashed.

I can't reproduce it. I'm not getting Korrina until I settle. And: Two heroes? Who else are you getting?

Scions seems to work fine for me even if i move my settlers and settle past turn 1. ^^

On a separate note, and off-topic, Tarq could you include in the pedia the mechanics of Awakened generation? (all I know is that it depends on the Random Number Generator :lol:)

I think I was getting Themoch and Alcinus.

It was a Classical Age Start, if that matters.

I think I was getting Themoch and Alcinus.

It was a Classical Age Start, if that matters.

Oh. So you started the game with Tracking and Knowledge of the Ether, there by causing those events to occur when you had no cities. That makes sense.

Ah. Those two only spawn after you have Tracking and KotE, respectively... Since they spawn after you research a certain tech, rather than build a city, the only way to prevent it without a patch is to either play a full game, or settle immediately.

Edit: Damn, MaxAstro beat me to it.:(

Ah. Those two only spawn after you have Tracking and KotE, respectively...

Yeah, I think you guys nailed it. Thanks, MC.

I'd wondered about Advanced Start, but totally forgot "Era" starts. A city-check should be do-able. (Well, heck, it's what Korrina already uses.)

v.43b, WinXp

a)
I can't seem to build barracks playing Amurites.

The pedia even says barracks can't be built by any civiliation - is this intendend ? If yes, how do I build/zpgrade swordsman or chamions now ?


b)
more a graphical issue:
After researching Warfare I am allowed to build a training yard.
The icon to build it shows up thrice in the city screen (instead of once).
I can still just build 1 though (if I click either one, the other 2 are greyed out)

Just ran a test game as Amurites (actually playing myself!) and I was able to build a Barracks. Didn't play long enough to test Training yards, but they show up fine in the pedia.

v.43b, WinXp

a)
I can't seem to build barracks playing Amurites.

The pedia even says barracks can't be built by any civiliation - is this intendend ? If yes, how do I build/zpgrade swordsman or chamions now ?


b)
more a graphical issue:
After researching Warfare I am allowed to build a training yard.
The icon to build it shows up thrice in the city screen (instead of once).
I can still just build 1 though (if I click either one, the other 2 are greyed out)

You don't have patch B; that was one of the bugs that was fixed in that patch, IIRC.

One on my Austrin Warriors gained experience without combat.

I noticed it after I had built the Exploration Guild, and it was before I even had the tech for Training Yards. There was also another Warrior at the tile that wasn't gaining experience.

Tiny bug, when playing as the scions of patria, I took the canibilize (I'm 90% sure) and all the other promotions were in blue, even though I didn't have enough experience, and when i clicked on them nothing happened, however, when I clicked on a different unit then back the choices were gone, (until i got to the next level), still it's a great mod guys :)

One on my Austrin Warriors gained experience without combat.

I noticed it after I had built the Exploration Guild, and it was before I even had the tech for Training Yards. There was also another Warrior at the tile that wasn't gaining experience.

Precisely how much XP did he get? 0.5 and then stopped, or did it start with a different number or keep going for a while? And I assume they were both in a city?

Tiny bug, when playing as the scions of patria, I took the canibilize (I'm 90% sure) and all the other promotions were in blue, even though I didn't have enough experience, and when i clicked on them nothing happened, however, when I clicked on a different unit then back the choices were gone, (until i got to the next level), still it's a great mod guys :)

Did the guy explore a Lair and gain some promotions from it as well recently? Sounds similar to a minor bug in base FfH that we noticed during the last version as well.

Ok, even with patch C this seems to be the pattern. FF 043 crashes if I try to run it from any other folder then 'Fall Further 043' if I create a new folder and copies the whole thing to 'Fall Further 043 INKLJOTNAR2' and changes the shortcutpath - it crashes when I try to start a game. Thusfar 100%.

Precisely how much XP did he get? 0.5 and then stopped, or did it start with a different number or keep going for a while? And I assume they were both in a city?

I wouldn't have noticed a mere .5 experience. He gained enough for a promotion and was still going at 2.6 . It stopped when I he took his first promotion though. I don't think the Warrior had ever seen combat, so it would have started from 0 xp.

HUGE bug with Korina the Black Lady. After you get the tech to upgrade her, (I think its Feral Bond) when you turn into a haunt your movement points are reset when you turn back to Korina, and when you turn back into a haunt the haunt has 4 movement points again, this can be done indefinitely and you can basically go on forever.

This means if you have a bunch of promotions and cannibalism you can attack everyone in haunt form and kill them in Korina form and then repeat with haunt. Crazily overpowered.

Ok, even with patch C this seems to be the pattern. FF 043 crashes if I try to run it from any other folder then 'Fall Further 043' if I create a new folder and copies the whole thing to 'Fall Further 043 INKLJOTNAR2' and changes the shortcutpath - it crashes when I try to start a game. Thusfar 100%.

You have to modify CIV4ArtDefeines_Misc.xml to state the name of the mod location. Whatever directory is referenced in that file MUST exist (for the Resource directory). So copy FF and rename the copy will work (as long as you don't try to change anything in your new Resource file and see anything happen from it), but completley removing the FF directory (or flat renaming it) won't work at all, unless you modify the reference :)

I wouldn't have noticed a mere .5 experience. He gained enough for a promotion and was still going at 2.6 . It stopped when I he took his first promotion though. I don't think the Warrior had ever seen combat, so it would have started from 0 xp.

Hrm... keep an eye out for it to happen again. Unfortunately till something can be repeated it is a bugger to fix. But I'll keep my eyes on the XP code for any possible glitches.

Downloaded Patch C and started a game up as Scions. Also running Vista.


-Game is pretty off and on about freezing up and not responding during map generation, and during this current game it seemed as if it froze up again and I tabbed out to open up my browser, and then tabbed back in to a ready and waiting map. It could have been me just being impatient or tabbing in and out could have had something to do with it.

-Upon city founding Swamp-dwelling and Seafaring were available to me

-I started at -1243060gp/t and at 0% research, and when I increased research output to 100%, the -gp/t increased but had no real effect. The next turn though my research went back to 0%

-The ability to make my Awakened join my city is greyed out although that could be because of a Scions mechanic that I'm not aware of.

-Got the Korinna message at Turn 1 but no Korinna unit

-Also got the infinite promotions for my starting Centeni and Velite, and while my Velite upgraded all the way to xienwolf's "future tech"-esque promotion, my Centeni stopped gaining at level 12 after I grabbed the Headless promotion even though promotions still looked like they were available

-Something in general that I've noticed is that interacting with other leaders takes a ridiculously long amount of time because while their window pops up, options for interaction (ie: ask them about other leaders, or open up the deal window) take forever to show up. In fact I haven't actually waited long enough to see how long or even if those options show up at all as I often just hit escape to close the window and continue with the game.

HUGE bug with Korina the Black Lady. After you get the tech to upgrade her,

Thanks! Fixes sent - should show up in a patch or so. (Tranformed units are considered to have cast a spell already that turn. Fixed some text_keys and an icon.)

-The ability to make my Awakened join my city is greyed out although that could be because of a Scions mechanic that I'm not aware of.


it could be because your out of happyness you can't add to city unless you have enough hapiness, (otherwise i am experiencing the same bug)

Found a potentially major bug... Believe it's Scion specific, but may not be. Started in the desert, and found that since scion workers are able to build cottages on desert tiles, they could actually construct cottages under my cities... Allows my settlements to pay for themselves quite easily. :lol:

CTD during game-init. Windows server 2003 RC2 SP2 (XP, basicaly. With better networking stuf.)
Patch C, Erebus with wrap on omni, and peek smothing 10%. Large...
No preticularly interesting settings. Flavor OFF. (To allow erebus's internal to work on its own)

I just saw a Volcano flattened by the spread of Hell terrain.

Playing first game as Scions, patch 'c'. My teammate (Cassiel) has an Alcinus too.

EDIT: Wow, that was fun. About 3 turns after my Alcinus went mad, Cassiel's Alcinus was reborn in my capital. There was an epic duel, but in the end, Alcinus prevailed.

Found a potentially major bug... Believe it's Scion specific, but may not be. Started in the desert, and found that since scion workers are able to build cottages on desert tiles

Thanks. That's almost certainly Scion specific - a fix is in the works.

Playing first game as Scions, patch 'c'. My teammate (Cassiel) has an Alcinus too.

That's not good... though did you mislay yours? When Alcinus is killed he's always resurrected, but he doesn't always return to the Emperor's side.

EDIT: Teammate? If he has the Gift the Alcinus event will trigger for him. I'd guess that's it. I'll see about a fix.

Austrin cannot build Recurve Archers.

Fauns can get the dwarven or orc kin promotion when built by the Luchurip, Clan, or Khazad civilization. This seems very odd.

I just saw a Volcano flattened by the spread of Hell terrain.

I think Genesis can also do this. It was 0.32 L though.

With patch a, the Scion Honored Band upkeep costs were buggy. Instead of +1 gold, they cost 2, but when they died (or were deleted), the costs went down by 5-10 gold. I got about 8 of them killed and was earning 71 gold a turn in extra "costs." :p

IIRC Volcanoes are handled by placing an impassable feature on normal terrain. Thus when Hell Terrain spreads and clears the feature, poof goes the volcano. Should be possible to make it an exception in the Hell Routine somehow.

I believe that adding all the hell terrains to the Volcano Feature's TerrainBooleans is the proper solution. The spread of hell only removes features that are not valid on the tile's new terrain.

Oh, I guess you'd have to add all the non-hell terrains too, as otherwise the same problem would happen when hell recedes.







(When I decided I wanted Obsidian Plains to actually show up I had to make both Obsidian Plains and Flood Plains valid on both Burning Sands and Deserts, and then change it with python that unfortunately didn't seem to change until a turn later.

I think that adding <iPlotCounterDown>, <FeatureDown>, <iPlotCounterUp>, <FeatureUp> and applying these just before the terrain changes could be a good idea.)

Found another rather large bug. When a Redactor casts "Grant Gift" its supposed to only effect units on your team. However I went into a stack of Falamars 20 some chariots and casted it and it turned everything in the stack to undead.


Notice all the undead promotions on his stack.

As far as I was aware, the Grant Gift spell affected all friendly and neutral units... At the very least, that is the original implementation, can't remember if it was changed or not.

Read the toltip. Says it only affects the player.

I think I can fix that by either removing a couple of lines of XML and thus remove the tool-tip that says it only effects the player, or I can add some python to make it only effect the player.

I like the idea of Redactor's going around undead-ifying other civ's units... But is that interesting or annoying? Or abusive?

ATM I think its probably annoying, and perhaps abusive. (Someone who uses Haste a lot would be out of luck, for example.) Maybe a small chance of changing another player's unit?

OTOH, As a top tier unit it may be OK if they can be annoying and/or abusive. :)

Opinions?

Unable to launch Fall Further 034. I get the following message at the "Init engine" stage when I try to launch the mod either directly or through the "load mod" option:

Initialize Renderer failed. Check DirectX Installation, Latest Graphics Drivers and Graphics Settings Parameters:

- width = 1024
- height = 768
- flags = 0x8
- hwnd = 0xd047a
- adaptrid = 0
- deviceid =1

I'm running Windows XP with the latest DirextX and Graphics Drivers; I have the latest patch for BTS; Fall From Heaven is version 0.34h; Fall Further was installed in the default directory, and is version 043c. BTS is from a purchased disc (not Steam). I'm able to run vanilla BTS, Fall From Heaven 0.34h, and Fall Further 0.33 without any issues, so the problem appears to be with this version. Any help would be appreciated.

I like the idea of Redactor's going around undead-ifying other civ's units... But is that interesting or annoying? Or abusive?


The second two. Not keen on that idea at all - mostly as it's a passive way to mess with other civs units and is too prone to changing the nature of the game (imagine if all units that are normally considered "living" had potential to not be, without the consent of the owning player).

Great Mod!!!

Nothing major but when I hover over my civ symbol at the top left of the screen, it displays patch A, not patch C. After patching it did cause me some confusion (not hard to do in any case).

I'm pretty sure I'm running C since the GP bar is back (thanks for that!!)

Found a cosmetic bug, really annoying.

Picture 1.) Heres what the berseker is supposed to look like for scions.

Picture 2.) Heres what it looks like after I built it.


EDIT: It actually appears to be the "Hauntstalk" promotion gained when in the haunted lands thats bugging the graphic.

Picture 3.) Heres the same berseker outside of the haunted lands without the "Hauntstalk" promotion.

Proper one shows up for me in testing, do you have Frozen Animations turned on maybe?

Proper one shows up for me in testing, do you have Frozen Animations turned on maybe?

I'm seeing the bug, too. "Hauntstalk" is picked up via autoacquire in Haunted Lands and applies a new artstyle (UNIT_ARTSTYLE_HAUNTSTALK.) Currently only Ghostwalkers have a definition there. In previous versions undefined units didn't change styles.

Is this be related to the bug that prevents all the models of a unit (Scion Archers, for example) from adopting the civ's artstyle?

I'm seeing the bug, too. "Hauntstalk" is picked up via autoacquire in Haunted Lands and applies a new artstyle (UNIT_ARTSTYLE_HAUNTSTALK.) Currently only Ghostwalkers have a definition there. In previous versions undefined units didn't change styles.

Is this be related to the bug that prevents all the models of a unit (Scion Archers, for example) from adopting the civ's artstyle?

Possibly because Berserker graphics are only applied through ArtStyle anyway (they're not a UU), therefore when you've replaced the artstyle and they can't find an entry, they just fall back to a standard Berserker.

===

I've pulled the Artstyle from Hauntedstalk for the moment, can reapply it after looking at it a little more (making all Scions units UU's isn't really an option).

Vista user. Up to date with windows updates. BtS 317 (No unofficial patches) FfH 34h, FF043C.

FF not working for me. Tried shortcut and the game failed before I even played one turn.

Tried loading FfH then loading a mod from there. Actually got into the game, but no interface whatsoever. Played a few turns, checked WorldBuilder (that still worked) Went to Exit to Menu before I got a crash (via Escape key).

Tried loading from BtS 317. Got into the game again. No interface. Played three turns then Retired. Retirement screens came up, although mini-map which showed progress was a pixelated mess. Upon choosing (Exit to Main Menu) I got a crash again.

Took a quick look in eventvwr, but it's fairly meaningless. Application Error. EventID 1000. It seems to be a fairly standard "trouble 't mill" message when an Application crashes according to Google.

Is there a way of turning off the BUG mode in FF? With the interface not working, i'm wondering if there's a problem in BUG. Or am I barking up the wrong tree.

Vista user. Up to date with windows updates. BtS 317 (No unofficial patches) FfH 34h, FF043C.

FF not working for me. Tried shortcut and the game failed before I even played one turn.

Tried loading FfH then loading a mod from there. Actually got into the game, but no interface whatsoever. Played a few turns, checked WorldBuilder (that still worked) Went to Exit to Menu before I got a crash (via Escape key).

Tried loading from BtS 317. Got into the game again. No interface. Played three turns then Retired. Retirement screens came up, although mini-map which showed progress was a pixelated mess. Upon choosing (Exit to Main Menu) I got a crash again.

Took a quick look in eventvwr, but it's fairly meaningless. Application Error. EventID 1000. It seems to be a fairly standard "trouble 't mill" message when an Application crashes according to Google.

Is there a way of turning off the BUG mode in FF? With the interface not working, i'm wondering if there's a problem in BUG. Or am I barking up the wrong tree.

Grab Patch D - hopefully Vista is a happy bunny again.

Grab Patch D - hopefully Vista is a happy bunny again.

a BIG thanks to you Vehem, xien and team. Thanks for the great job and quick response to that vista problem. :D

The game seems to be playable now using Vista. :D

Small bug when playing as scions. My Legate attacked a defense-promoted worker, and was able to take both a slave and a reborn from the one unit... Spontaneous cloning? :lol:

Well, if we take the "Units represent regiments" approach, then you just happened to enslave half of them, and simply capture the other half as indentured servants ;p

quick response to that vista problem. :D

Somehow it feels like a very long time ago that we started looking at that problem, but it was actually only about 3 days ago. New warning label for the box methinks.

"Vista Warning: May cause time dilation"

Small bug when playing as scions. My Legate attacked a defense-promoted worker, and was able to take both a slave and a reborn from the one unit... Spontaneous cloning? :lol:

Well, if we take the "Units represent regiments" approach, then you just happened to enslave half of them, and simply capture the other half as indentured servants ;p

Though rationalizations aside, it should probably just be one capture mechanic in effect per unit. I think that's the stance with Command, so we should probably follow that example.

Not sure if this is a bug, but the Dowsing ritual was not buildable after discovering mysticism. I couldn't find any other requirements besides the tech.

First, my thanks to the development team for getting the Vista fix pronto! Good job guys!

I noticed my first few turns had long delays while the AI moved or something happened. A little further into the game it is fine though.

A few things I saw that are carryovers from .42:

1. The main barb force is still coming way to early, especially at the slower speeds. In my epic speed game I had a ton of barbs on my doorstep on Turn 49! As I mentioned with .42, this doesn't work for two reasons:

a. I was prepared with 4 defenders. The AI never prepares and 6 of the 10 AI civs were wiped out before turn 75. At least the AI barbs don't seem to be targeting just one civ at a time as it is in FFH .34. However, I know it was talked about before, can anything be done to slow down the appearance of the barbs to avoid so many civs getting wiped out early?

b. The other thing is having all those barbs on the map so early really eliminates the exploration phase of the game. You simply cannot send lone exploring unit out to check out lairs/dungeons and/or capture animals. This IMO is one of the most fun elements of the game and is missing in FF. Again, give us a little more time to have fun with the exploration phase of the game instead of plopping down a load of barbs on the map so soon. Also, just about every lair/dungeon/goody hut gets a guard that is very difficult to take out with a Scout. :(

2. Does anyone think the Adventurer promotion really works when exploring dungeons/lairs? I have never seen better results from it. I think the success rate exploring these is abysmal with or without the promotion. Definitely, high risk, but it would be nice if that promotion actually did improve your chances of getting a good result.

3. I am not yet at Turn 150 in the epic speed game and have lost 2 99.9% battles. Just bad luck, eh? But, boy, it really sucks when your highly promoted Centeni loses a 99.9% battle to a freakin' Gorilla. :mad:

4. I always let the computer randomly choose the civ I get to play. My first .43 game I get the Scions of Patria. I was totally lost. There is some good flavor material on the civ, but precious little that I could find explaining how this civ works. Yes, I am figuring a lot out through trial and error, but what a unique, different civ!

And, why did two barb Goblins kill the Velite unit I had in my city when I had 4 strong Centeni units defending? Those were not Goblin Marksmen.

Anyway, thanks again for making this nice modmod available to us poor Vista users!:goodjob:

I don't think Divided Souls are working correctly (patch D). If you sever soul, you get two severed souls that "cannot move" for one turn. And they appear to have 1 turn duration. So they vanish before you can even move them.

For some reason I can't upgrade Elephants into War Elephants...

Also, having just captured Brigit for the first time ever, it occurs to me that she is a little bland. At the very least, shouldn't she have the Angel race? :) Possibly Flying as well would be appropriate.

Not sure if this is a bug, but the Dowsing ritual was not buildable after discovering mysticism. I couldn't find any other requirements besides the tech.

Dowsing, and the other FF rituals, have been disabled atm... The patch log implies they're planning something, but no clue as to what.

And, why did two barb Goblins kill the Velite unit I had in my city when I had 4 strong Centeni units defending? Those were not Goblin Marksmen.

That's actually because of the promotion that Velites start with... Gives them retreat chance and an increased chance to defend the stack.

1. The main barb force is still coming way to early, especially at the slower speeds. In my epic speed game I had a ton of barbs on my doorstep on Turn 49! As I mentioned with .42, this doesn't work for two reasons:

a. I was prepared with 4 defenders. The AI never prepares and 6 of the 10 AI civs were wiped out before turn 75. At least the AI barbs don't seem to be targeting just one civ at a time as it is in FFH .34. However, I know it was talked about before, can anything be done to slow down the appearance of the barbs to avoid so many civs getting wiped out early?

b. The other thing is having all those barbs on the map so early really eliminates the exploration phase of the game. You simply cannot send lone exploring unit out to check out lairs/dungeons and/or capture animals. This IMO is one of the most fun elements of the game and is missing in FF. Again, give us a little more time to have fun with the exploration phase of the game instead of plopping down a load of barbs on the map so soon. Also, just about every lair/dungeon/goody hut gets a guard that is very difficult to take out with a Scout. :(

I have to assume you are using patch D, so sucks to hear that AI are still getting wiped out. I did tweak their defensive code, but I guess they still can't cut it.

As for the barbarians coming early, I'll check again, but I could have swore I made it so that normal barbarians shouldn't show up until the same point they would in base FfH.

I don't think Divided Souls are working correctly (patch D). If you sever soul, you get two severed souls that "cannot move" for one turn. And they appear to have 1 turn duration. So they vanish before you can even move them.

Somehow they got flagged as "SpecialUnit Spell" type, which causes the unit to be deleted at the start of the turn even if it doesn't have a duration.

Some events happens twice in a single city... while probably they shouldn't.

Like:

Chose inscription for your monument.
A great artist emerges at the carnival.

Cualli assasins are not displaying their proper graphics. Instead they look like normal assasins (vanilla spies). I do not have frozen animations on.

4. I always let the computer randomly choose the civ I get to play. My first .43 game I get the Scions of Patria. I was totally lost. There is some good flavor material on the civ, but precious little that I could find explaining how this civ works.

I'd like to put an entry in the "Concepts" section to at least explain Awakened/spawning. Can't figure out how to do so, though.

I'd like to put an entry in the "Concepts" section to at least explain Awakened/spawning. Can't figure out how to do so, though.

XML\BasicInfos\Civ4BasicInfos.xml

<ConceptInfo>
<Type>CONCEPT_WHAT_IS_FALL_FROM_HEAVEN</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_CONCEPT_WHAT_IS_FALL_FROM_HEAVEN</Description>
<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_CONCEPT_WHAT_IS_FALL_FROM_HEAVEN_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
</ConceptInfo>

Fairly self-explanatory XML block, just need to add the TXT_KEYs. Can you add them as "Scions of Patria - Awakened" and "Scions of Patria - History" etc - such that they're all grouped together (assuming you want to add more than one?)

XML\BasicInfos\Civ4BasicInfos.xml


Ah, so that's where it was hiding! Thanks.


Can you add them as "Scions of Patria - Awakened" and "Scions of Patria - History" etc - such that they're all grouped together

Sure. There needs to be a section on Awakened. I'll ask in the Scions documentation thread about other sections that're needed.

Some events happens twice in a single city... while probably they shouldn't.

Like:

Chose inscription for your monument.
A great artist emerges at the carnival.

That's actually an FFH bug.... Been around as long as I can remember.

Scion archer units, two out of three of the archers look like vanilla archers. Frozen animations is off.

I'm playing w/Win-XP as Scions of Patria.

I'm currently under attack by the Cualli. During the initial attack, 22 Cualli units died and I can see 42 other units (give or take) in my territory. How the (censored) is Cualli able to pay for all these units considering that Civ needs to keep units to defend his own territory since he's right up against the Calibim which is the largest nation right now. This sort of thing really (censored) me off since to defend myself, I think I would have had to do nothing but build mostly units. The whole point of Civ is that there are different paths to victory. Well as the Scions, I can't build that fast. Even with having the bulk of my forces in a well fortified city with pallisides & walls on a mountain, I know I'm going to get wiped out by the sheer weight of numbers. :mad:

Plus, I have NEVER like that this MASSIVE force has to get through the Chisliv's territory who is very happy with me. Beyond the 'real world' logistics of feeding an army that size, they would make a mess on their way to attack me. Plus I don't think most people would allow a massive army through their territory anyway.

So I don't know what 'magic' the AI is using to be able to field this massive army but it is totally unbalancing the game. It's like being back playing Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri when you'd go broke trying to field enough units to defend your cities and yet the Lord's Believers could somehow not only produce 15+ cheap units but also manage to pay the maintenance cost on them when you know that to produce these units time wise means they haven't build ANY buildings.

GRRRRR! This is not how I want my first FF 0.43 game to go! :mad: :mad: If I wanted to play a game where I did nothing but crank out military units, I'd play Command & Conquer or something! :mad:

Unit Statistics isn't tracking anything.

I'm probably doing something really stupid but if you could provide a steer it would be much appreciated.

I'm running XP Pro SP3. I have a fully patched BTS (the disc is loaded) likewise with FFH version 34h. I've downloaded FF 43 and patched to D. All files are located in their default locations. FFH loads and runs fine.

When FF runs from both the short cut and using BTS/advanced/load a mod it starts fine and loads the splash screen (cityscape) but no menu/text whatsoever.

Any ideas?

First thing I noticed was that every turn took much longer than vanilla FfH. I didn't turn on simultaneous turns, btw.

Okay, I figured out what was causing this: the 'Barbarian World' option. Which I like to enable combined with 'No Settlers' to leave the world, all things considered, rather empty and a bit more 'wild', if you knwo what I mean.

But, like I said, it's a whole lot slower. Unplayable, even, if you're easily bothered by such things, like I sort of am.Any chance you could look into what's making turns so slow? FfH seems able to cope...

Every between turn was slower just for having Barbarian world activated then?

I'm currently under attack by the Cualli. During the initial attack, 22 Cualli units died and I can see 42 other units (give or take) in my territory. How the (censored) is Cualli able to pay for all these units

The AI has a very different view of what it can "afford" to what a human does. It will happily drop it's research rate to 0 to handle maintenance if it's on a "Total War" strategy. That doesn't trigger too often - but certain leaders (Charadon, Daracaat and Kolsehvahn among them) seem to be more prone to it. Kolsehvahn also finds it a little easier to rush his production, having early access to slavery.

Regarding the Calabim - if the AI has decided to go "all out" against you, it probably is neglecting its own defenses (minimum defenders only). Being at war with the Calabim should reduce the chances that it will consider total war, but won't prevent it. You could liken it to a human player taking a big risk - not necessarily a smart one either, but it sounds like it's working in this case.

I'm probably doing something really stupid but if you could provide a steer it would be much appreciated.

I'm running XP Pro SP3. I have a fully patched BTS (the disc is loaded) likewise with FFH version 34h. I've downloaded FF 43 and patched to D. All files are located in their default locations. FFH loads and runs fine.

When FF runs from both the short cut and using BTS/advanced/load a mod it starts fine and loads the splash screen (cityscape) but no menu/text whatsoever.

Any ideas?

That's normally a language issue, but I'm assuming you're using English from your location. Everything else sounds like it should work though. For the sake of experimenting, can you "Cut" the Assets\XML\Text directory and paste it elsewhere temporarily (you'll need to move it back afterwards) and see if you get a lot of "TXT_KEY_SOMETHING_SOMETHING" messages where the text would be? It's not a fix, but it'll indicate if there's a problem with your GameTexts which I can checkout.

The only time I've really seen that issue before is with it set to use a language that doesn't have a complete set of entries...

That's normally a language issue, but I'm assuming you're using English from your location. Everything else sounds like it should work though. For the sake of experimenting, can you "Cut" the Assets\XML\Text directory and paste it elsewhere temporarily (you'll need to move it back afterwards) and see if you get a lot of "TXT_KEY_SOMETHING_SOMETHING" messages where the text would be? It's not a fix, but it'll indicate if there's a problem with your GameTexts which I can checkout.

The only time I've really seen that issue before is with it set to use a language that doesn't have a complete set of entries...

Did that and no difference I get the FF splash screen but still no menu text. I know I have not messed with any language settings. Yes I'm Northern ;) so English is my sole language.

I have run successfully all previous versions of FF and posted several times on the original thread, usually positive feedback and seldom any issues so I'm more than a little confused

Every between turn was slower just for having Barbarian world activated then?

Markedly so, from the very first turn. I even tested with no other options turned on besides 'Barbarian World' and it ran slow.

Found an exploit with Korinna the Black Lady. With Feral Bonds (?) she and the ranger UUs can turn into haunts, which is fine, but whenever Korinna switches forms, she regains all her mps and the ability to attack, so she can move as much as she wants and attack as much as she wants in one turn.

Found an exploit with Korinna the Black Lady...

Hmm... there was a fix for that. Looks like part of it didn't get included in the last patch. I'll put it up again.

That's actually because of the promotion that Velites start with... Gives them retreat chance and an increased chance to defend the stack.

Thanks. After building a couple more Velites and having them promptly killed, I learned that it was a waste to build them when you are being besieged by barbs in your sole city and there is no way to get them out of it.

It would be nice if they could somehow lose that promotion when they were stuck in a city. I suppose there might be cause for them to defend a stack when promoted, but as a basic Velite, that would have to be one weak stack of units for them to defend. ;)

I have to assume you are using patch D, so sucks to hear that AI are still getting wiped out. I did tweak their defensive code, but I guess they still can't cut it.

As for the barbarians coming early, I'll check again, but I could have swore I made it so that normal barbarians shouldn't show up until the same point they would in base FfH.


Yes, xienwolf, it was with the latest patch D. After playing a good number of .34 FFH raging barb games at Epic speed, I was shocked when the barb force showed up in this game - actually it just brought back unpleasant memories of FF .42. ;) Again, it FFH .34 they come around Turn 200 or thereabouts. Of course, when they do come I find there are plenty of Lizardmen and Axemen in the mix and Wolf Riders come quickly.

As I mentioned, one good thing in FF is that the targeting mechanism in FFH doesn't seem to be working. I would get smashed by barbs for about 20 turns, then they would stop coming for about 40 turns while they wiped out someone else. As a result, in Turn 300 there are 4 civs (of 11) left - all with one city. The AI was not able to expand untouched while one civ (you) get pounded continuously for the whole game.

So, this aspect of raging barbs in FF I like!:)

However, with them coming too early, the exploration phase of the game, IMO one of the most fun things, is missing in FF.

I'd like to put an entry in the "Concepts" section to at least explain Awakened/spawning. Can't figure out how to do so, though.

I've since found some very good explanations on the Scions of Patria in this forum. However, my problem, and maybe others is that I don't have a good broadband connection so I play FF/FFH offline and cannot quickly refer to this forum. I depend on the Civilopedia for tips, documentation, etc. and find there is not much there to help often.

The AI has a very different view of what it can "afford" to what a human does. It will happily drop it's research rate to 0 to handle maintenance if it's on a "Total War" strategy. That doesn't trigger too often - but certain leaders (Charadon, Daracaat and Kolsehvahn among them) seem to be more prone to it. Kolsehvahn also finds it a little easier to rush his production, having early access to slavery.



I saw this a lot in version .33 of FFH. I posted about one game where I had four different civs throwing stacks of over 100 units at me. One, the Infernal, had over 200 in their stack.

Yes, when you are scrimping to field a modest army and find your maintenance costs always running in the red, you really have to wonder how the AI does it. This was as Monarch difficulty too.

Ok, I just reviewed my code and the Barbarians should not arrive any earlier than they do in base FfH UNLESS you have Barbarian World enabled. That allows them to start spawning as soon as the animals start to spawn.

Personally, as I always enjoy the early exploration period and abundance of animals, I generally go in and triple the minimum barbarian spawn turn.

EDIT: Possible bug I just noticed. With the epic lairs that are explorable multiple times, do they use the same upgrade code as normal improvements? If so, I don't think they are ever going to become re-explorable most games. After exploring both the Pyre and Aifon Isle, they both say "City must work to become blah blah blah". Does that mean they won't upgrade until a city is built near them? That will be a little hard for Aifon Isle...

Possible bugs and cosmetic issues:

* Entries which appear within City seems to lack Sid's tips and point to a TXT entry instead.

* Raided a dungeon and got bushwhacked by a Spectre. Later on, whilst exploring, the Spectre seemed to be best friends with a Bear. They used to go everywhere together, like they were in a badly written fairy tale. I guess the AI treats them both as Barbarians, but it looked ludicrous to see this bear wandering around the woods and a Spectre running after it going "wait for me!"

* Dunespeak - The pop tells me it can get acquired after certain criteria are met, but the Civilopedia maintains its silence over the matter. Maybe, I need to learn Dunespeak. Maybe the first rule of Dunespeak is that you don't talk about Dunespeak.

* Civ4Alerts are very handy. There's no BUG mode or trophy room. Is this a conscious choice?

patch D : on turn 3 my goblin finds a tile with Earth Mana on it. is this supposed to happen?

The earth mana tile would be Standing Stones, mysteriously removed. I've had the same and also had Letum Frigus removed during test games. Haven't discovered yet precisely where/why this is happening, I am inclined to suspect that the starting plot normalization is doing it somehow/somewhere.

@Jabie: What entries in a city? Really no clue where to start to look to figure out what you are talking about with that one :( As for the Spectre & Bear, they are both Barbarians. Dunespeak ought to list the requirements right after stating that you need to meet the requirements, which would be Malakim and in a Desert. There ought to be a trophy hall, I'll check on that one, and by BUG mode do you mean CTRL+ALT+O options screen? That one is intentionally not there as we simply haven't written one yet.

Unique Features are not showing the mana they grant in the civilopedia. btw, IIRC the standing stones grant nature mana while mount of kalshekk gives earth.

and I can confirm that Barbarian World makes the game unbearably slow :(

No improvement shows the bonus that it creates, in FF or FfH. It would be nice if it did though.

not sure if this is intended: deer can now appear even in normal grassland tiles ( i.e. they don't need a forest )

Some extra testing for the 'Barbarian World' thingie:

Started a game with it enabled, nothing else. Slow turns.
Went into WB, deleted all Barbarian units. Turn still slow, maybe a teeny bit faster but hard to tell.
Next turn, went into WB and deleted all Barb cities. Turn back to normal speed.

So my conclusion would be that the 'fault' lies in the AI handling of the cities. Too many cities, too spread out for one AI to handle them all efficiently?

I'm working on a revision to how the City AI works right now. Among other things I am trying to make the AI perform Terraforming actions in a similar manner to how they do worker actions. While I am in there I will be completley re-writing how the city decides what to build and when to do it.


Each one is a pretty complex routine, so don't expect results before christmas, or expect any results before then to be rather buggy :) But ideally it will sort out the Barbarian speed issue. If I see anything which is obviously slowing them down while I am in there I'll touch it up.



Could you try starting a normal game (non-Barb world) and placing a bunch of Barbarian cities yourself with Worldbuilder? If that doesn't slow things down in a similar fashion then I can limit how much I look at. Personally I haven't been able to notice the slowdown myself or I would just run such a test right now.

Ok, I just reviewed my code and the Barbarians should not arrive any earlier than they do in base FfH UNLESS you have Barbarian World enabled. That allows them to start spawning as soon as the animals start to spawn.

Whoa! That certainly knocks the Barbarian World option out of games for me!

The animals start spawning around Turn 7 at Epic Speed. If you are saying that the main barb force will come then you will see every civ be wiped out quickly. In Epic speed it generally takes about 20 turns to build that first defender. You would have to keep both of your starting units in the city and forget about exploring.

Still, I guess it is better to start with no barb cities than to have the main barb force arrive on Turn 49. This will give the player more time to enjoy the exploring phase of the game before all hell breaks loose!;)

I am getting the same bug with lairs/dungeons that I get with FFH.

There are enough bad results you can get from exploring, but it is just plain frustrating when you explore and get...

SAVING GAME

I'm not sure what is up with that.

BTW, I got the event where I bought a Dungeon on one of the tiles inside my borders. I explored it, and guess what I got? A damn Eidolon and a few lesser thugs! Man, he was hard to bring down with my Tier 2 units!:eek:

The combat log is enabled regardless of the game setting.

Thanks a million for the Vista fix. Anyways, Risen Emperor Scions game with Patch D.

-Contrary to the Scions documentation thread, I can build: Aqueduct, Granary, Herbalist, Smokehouse, and I'm willing to to bet that I can build Groves as soon as I research them.

-I seem to lose Alcinus a lot. For awhile I thought he just never respawned but I eventually found him perched on top of the Mirror of Heaven while I was out catching animals and I had to bring the guy back home in a straight-jacket. Anyways, he turned into a barbarian two turns in a row and after I put him down a second time he never respawned. I jumped into the world editor to make sure I didn't lose him again, but he's definetely gone for good now. Kinda makes it hard to build the Dark Council. :\

-Necropolis cancels out the happiness from wine, but from buildings like Inn's you still get happiness from wine. Is that intentional?

Thanks a million for the Vista fix. Anyways, Risen Emperor Scions game with Patch D.

-Contrary to the Scions documentation thread, I can build: Aqueduct, Granary, Herbalist, Smokehouse, and I'm willing to to bet that I can build Groves as soon as I research them.

-I seem to lose Alcinus a lot. For awhile I thought he just never respawned but I eventually found him perched on top of the Mirror of Heaven while I was out catching animals and I had to bring the guy back home in a straight-jacket. Anyways, he turned into a barbarian two turns in a row and after I put him down a second time he never respawned. I jumped into the world editor to make sure I didn't lose him again, but he's definetely gone for good now. Kinda makes it hard to build the Dark Council. :\

-Necropolis cancels out the happiness from wine, but from buildings like Inn's you still get happiness from wine. Is that intentional?

1. Most of the Health buildings were added back in, as a Unhealthy Discontent building has been added that pops up if you have too much unhealth.... 2 unhappiness, something major to avoid.

2. Alcinus will actually respawn as a member of another civ occasionally, in which case you have to go take him out with a special assassin unit or wait for him to turn again.

3. This one I have no idea on. ;)

Bleh, looks like I need to do some more Alcinus hunting then :\

-Forgot to note that I can build Praetorians (Royal Guard units) without Aristocracy. Don't know if that's intended.

Patch D:

I have 2 spirit and 2 ice mana. New adepts get 1 level of spirit (courage) but no auto level for ice.
: Maybe OK. Have 3 ice. Adept got free level 1 then free level2 when upgraded to mage.


Also, is the acceleration (force 1) working? I get the arrow icon but it's never highlighted. Adept was in stack with living units and catapults.

If you upgrade to an archer or arquebus, that arent allowed to have a metal promo (as in bronze/iron weapons) keeps the promo.

Do principes calculate their extra cost correctly? I find this very odd. It might be something else too but I doubt it.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/eteranl_guardian/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

EDIT: My army consists of:
1 trojan horse
1 Pelemoc
1 Melante
20 mercenaries
7 honored bands
18 centenis
20 principes
1 Korinna the Protector (still shackled if that counts)
1 doomsayer
1 trireme
2 workers

EDIT2: I upgraded my centenis to principes and my upkeep costs went up (though I still pay negative maintenance for my army. Talk about efficiency. Still now I am even more confused.

No zup, the "extra cost" Scions units definitely do not calculate correctly.

Whoa! That certainly knocks the Barbarian World option out of games for me!

The animals start spawning around Turn 7 at Epic Speed. If you are saying that the main barb force will come then you will see every civ be wiped out quickly. In Epic speed it generally takes about 20 turns to build that first defender. You would have to keep both of your starting units in the city and forget about exploring.

Still, I guess it is better to start with no barb cities than to have the main barb force arrive on Turn 49. This will give the player more time to enjoy the exploring phase of the game before all hell breaks loose!;)

My main thought on this one was that it is silly to allow Barbarian cities without allowing them defenders. But since they DO build units on their own, it might be a decision which I should retract.

I am getting the same bug with lairs/dungeons that I get with FFH.

There are enough bad results you can get from exploring, but it is just plain frustrating when you explore and get...

SAVING GAME

I'm not sure what is up with that.

BTW, I got the event where I bought a Dungeon on one of the tiles inside my borders. I explored it, and guess what I got? A damn Eidolon and a few lesser thugs! Man, he was hard to bring down with my Tier 2 units!:eek:

I would love if you could manage a savegame with this happening reliably. And where does it save the game too? IIRC you stated that it just pops up the savegame screen in the background, so you have to hit enter for the game to continue (which would mean the save is default name and location unless you type something while waiting?)

The combat log is enabled regardless of the game setting.

Yes, small oversight of the program used to compile our changes, it slipped through each version since I introduced the option. Hopefully next patch we actually get it to change properly :)

Do principes calculate their extra cost correctly? I find this very odd.



Someone else reported issues with the extra cost on these units. Just haven't had a chance to test it out quite yet to get precise numbers. Supposedly deleting a few will garner you quite limitless income potential till we do fix it ;)

It looks like FF 0.43 is slower than its 0.42 incarnation, and slower than the latest FfH, right from Turn #1. It used to be that turns were almost instantaneous at the beginning of the game, while now they require easily 6-7 seconds... It goes downhill from there. Makes the game really sluggish.

------------------

To be more accurate, I start off with turns taking about 10 seconds, and about turn 300, they last about 1'25". That's way slower than it used to be. I use the same computer (standard Erebus map with 9 civs).

It freezes during the "Initializing XML" part of loading the mod.

My Sons of Asena seem to be created with no unitcombat. They are incapable of gaining promotions, and shock doesn't work on them.

My Sons of Asena seem to be created with no unitcombat. They are incapable of gaining promotions, and shock doesn't work on them.

Thanks - fixed in next patch.

It looks like FF 0.43 is slower than its 0.42 incarnation, and slower than the latest FfH, right from Turn #1. It used to be that turns were almost instantaneous at the beginning of the game, while now they require easily 6-7 seconds... It goes downhill from there. Makes the game really sluggish.

Are you using the 'Barbarian World' option? If so, it's been reported and Xienwolf seems to be investigating it.

Dannmos's declare war text is broken/missing. It just gives a text key reference.

Are you using the 'Barbarian World' option? If so, it's been reported and Xienwolf seems to be investigating it.

Yes I am. Thanks for that bit of info.

I'm playing FF0.43 Patch D

Units lose their unique graphics when they are inactive. (e.g. Hill Giant is displayed as a giant Swordsman) When you select them they appear normal again...

I'm playing FF0.43 Patch D

Units lose their unique graphics when they are inactive. (e.g. Hill Giant is displayed as a giant Swordsman) When you select them they appear normal again...

You have Frozen Animations turned on.

It freezes during the "Initializing XML" part of loading the mod.

Which patch and Operating System?

Patch D: I can see through parts of the Scions units, such as the belt of the Centrenis and my Velites elbows. My be my computer, but anyone else have this problem?

My main thought on this one was that it is silly to allow Barbarian cities without allowing them defenders. But since they DO build units on their own, it might be a decision which I should retract.


I would love if you could manage a savegame with this happening reliably. And where does it save the game too? IIRC you stated that it just pops up the savegame screen in the background, so you have to hit enter for the game to continue (which would mean the save is default name and location unless you type something while waiting?)



One other thing to consider is that if the Clan is in the game, they ALWAYS pop their For the Horde WorldSpell immediately. Barb defenders change to Clan and wander off. If you have a barb city near you, it is a gift that will get you off to a great start - Settlers take a long time to build in slow game speeds. The barbs will build a defender in less than 10 turns, though, so you have to move fast. They always build their units faster than the human player - Monarch difficulty.

What happens is I click on the Dragon 'explore lair/dungeon' icon. The save game screen does NOT pop up. I only see the message Saving Game, the game is paused and the lair/Dungeon is gone. I will get a print screen next time I get one.

It shouldn't take long as I am getting 2-3 of these a game it seems. The last one I got when I had 2 units on the lair. I got two messages: 1. Saving Game
2. The lair is empty.

That brings me to another bug/question - when I have more than one unit on a lair/dungeon, sometimes I get only one result, sometimes more than one. Often it is a bad thing and a good thing. Why the inconsistencies there?

I have to say the lair/dungeon exploration in FF is more interesting although it seems the bad results come more frequently than in FFH. One thing I liked is getting a couple of units I otherwise would not have been able to build (playing as Scions) - a Monk and an Angel. :)

Haven't looked into the multi-unit dungeon delving yet. But it ought to be that only the head unit actually does any exploration (and obviously it ought not to be trying to save your game)

You have Frozen Animations turned on.

Aaaah...:rolleyes: that's right!

And why my Hunters can Subdue only Wolves, Lions, Bears and Griffins and not Tigers and Gorillas? :confused:

That brings me to another bug/question - when I have more than one unit on a lair/dungeon, sometimes I get only one result, sometimes more than one. Often it is a bad thing and a good thing. Why the inconsistencies there?


By the sounds of it, you're failing the first dungeon exploration (a result that doesn't destroy it), but possibly succeeding on a later one. If you have a stack of units, they'll explore it in turn - if one fails, the next will try. If you succeed on one attempt, there's no dungeon left for the others to explore so they can't attempt to do it again. It's because the spell system allows you to cast with multiple units in turn, but only if the spell is still valid (so if you have a stack of Haste adepts, you can click cast but only the first capable unit will actually cast as the spell is invalid once all eligible units on the tile already have the Haste promotion - if the spell was Fireball, then all units would cast it at once as it's always a valid choice).

Basically in cases where you only have one result, the first explorer cleared the dungeon out. Multiple results mean it took multiple expeditions.

====

The save issue though is very odd. What types of lair is it happening on? There are two sets of code at the moment (Kael's and Marnoks original) that trigger for different lair types (Marnok's for the old lairs - Barrows, Lairs etc, Kael's for the new - Goblin Forts, Dungeons...)

Should the Corpus promotions not be takeable for free? As it is you have to pay for the pretty-much useless Body promos and then again to replace them with Corpus ones.

1) Got Alcinus, trained him in Accelerate, got a Python error about iNaval not being defined

2) I have a -37 extra unit cost with the Scions right now, which means my units are earning me money...

1) Got Alcinus, trained him in Accelerate, got a Python error about iNaval not being defined

Thanks - fixed.

The unit cost issue is being looked at as well.

Should the Corpus promotions not be takeable for free? As it is you have to pay for the pretty-much useless Body promos and then again to replace them with Corpus ones.

There's a bug there: You're supposed have the Corpus promotions available in place of the Body promotions.

Which unit(s) are able to get Body?

EDIT: I'm seeing the expected behavior (Can get Corpus, not Body) in a test game. The Corpus promo does look like Body, but it's greenish rather than blue.

That was what I was expecting but not seeing it - built a couple of body nodes for the flesh studio, amd my units have Body available and get Body I for free - and can cast Regeneration and Haste; when they level up Corpus shows up to purchase, and if I do so it replaces Body.

Talking about Necromancers and Adepts here - I can attach the save if that helps any.

I think that the "Free from Mana" is where the catch is happening.

Tbuilt a couple of body nodes for the flesh studio, amd my units have Body available and get Body I for free

Oh, right - now I understand. Fix'll probably be in the next patch.

EDIT:

I think that the "Free from Mana" is where the catch is happening.

Yep.

Promoted a Doomsayer to Inquisition to remove the Ashen Veil religion from my newly conquered Sheiam cities, and was unable to use the ability. Is there some other requirement for this that I'm unaware of?


Edit: Also, I was under the impression that Accelerate is Haste for non-living units, but I can't cast it on my undead. I take it the spell is limited to siege?

Edit: Also, I was under the impression that Accelerate is Haste for non-living units, but I can't cast it on my undead. I take it the spell is limited to siege?

The spell says Golems and Siege.

I don't know about the Inquisition question. Holy City?

Is fertility supposed to be able to be cast an infinite number of times per turn?
And noone comented on the slight graphics isssues I've had, with being able to see through parts of Scions units, most notable Centrenises belts.

The spell says Golems and Siege.

I don't know about the Inquisition question. Holy City?
You need a state religion - it removes non-state ones from your cities. So it doesn't work if you're Agnostic, like the Emperor.

I posted this in the main thread and I want to make sure im heard so heres a cut and paste.

Not sure if this has been said before but why can't I build light of lugus? Im +500 good as Varn Gosam. Empryian religion. Have all the required techs. The ritual is in my city screen but its greyed out and unable to build.

Heres the wierd part, I think I was somehow effected by the chosen of esus ritual, the screen is darker and all my units have the ability to hide with the shroud of Esus.

Its really wierd. Someone tell me what the HECK happened!

And noone comented on the slight graphics isssues I've had, with being able to see through parts of Scions units, most notable Centrenises belts.

Beyond the generic "it's your graphics" guess... perhaps there's an old version of Scions? If there was one in your 042 directory and you've got modular loading on you might be seeing units, etc. from the old version.

I posted this in the main thread and I want to make sure im heard so heres a cut and paste.

Not sure if this has been said before but why can't I build light of lugus? Im +500 good as Varn Gosam. Empryian religion. Have all the required techs. The ritual is in my city screen but its greyed out and unable to build.

Heres the wierd part, I think I was somehow effected by the chosen of esus ritual, the screen is darker and all my units have the ability to hide with the shroud of Esus.

Its really wierd. Someone tell me what the HECK happened!


The darker screen border is intended, and should mean that you have the Shroud of Esus active, or own Nox Noctis. Inability to build Light of Lugus though I am not sure what is going on, just as with inability to build the Dowsing ritual reported earlier. At one point all the new rituals were going to be blocked while we revise rituals in general, but I don't see any reason for them to be blocked right now.

The only thing I can think of is to check if there is a timer counting down. Maybe someone else on your team already spent all 4 uses, though the cooldown is short enough that means you ought to have it active right now

By the sounds of it, you're failing the first dungeon exploration (a result that doesn't destroy it), but possibly succeeding on a later one. If you have a stack of units, they'll explore it in turn - if one fails, the next will try. If you succeed on one attempt, there's no dungeon left for the others to explore so they can't attempt to do it again. It's because the spell system allows you to cast with multiple units in turn, but only if the spell is still valid (so if you have a stack of Haste adepts, you can click cast but only the first capable unit will actually cast as the spell is invalid once all eligible units on the tile already have the Haste promotion - if the spell was Fireball, then all units would cast it at once as it's always a valid choice).

Basically in cases where you only have one result, the first explorer cleared the dungeon out. Multiple results mean it took multiple expeditions.

====



The save issue though is very odd. What types of lair is it happening on? There are two sets of code at the moment (Kael's and Marnoks original) that trigger for different lair types (Marnok's for the old lairs - Barrows, Lairs etc, Kael's for the new - Goblin Forts, Dungeons...)

But, wouldn't you get a message announcing the non-result? I think I get one if I have only one exploring unit try. Honestly, it is really confusing to me whether the lair/dungeon goes or stays after exploration. Is that just random, or is it set for the type of result? I mean the 'common' dungeon/lair, not the special ones.

I saw the "Saving Game" result in FFH too and reported it in the bug thread there - no response. One thing I have noticed sometimes is the text about the result is a dark-grey color which, for me anyway, blends in with the background. I'm hoping to get it again so I can Prt Scrn it and post.

The darker screen border is intended, and should mean that you have the Shroud of Esus active, or own Nox Noctis. Inability to build Light of Lugus though I am not sure what is going on, just as with inability to build the Dowsing ritual reported earlier. At one point all the new rituals were going to be blocked while we revise rituals in general, but I don't see any reason for them to be blocked right now.

The only thing I can think of is to check if there is a timer counting down. Maybe someone else on your team already spent all 4 uses, though the cooldown is short enough that means you ought to have it active right now

Been 50+ turns with NO light of lugus option. The darkened screen is REALLY annoying, I am malakim to boot so it just doesn't work.

I don't have a team but I do have a vassal. And my vassal sure as heck has not built light of lugus once.

Oh I also found out I have the nox noctis, captured the city a short while back. Maybe I need the dies dee to build LoL?

EDIT: Just went into world builder and got the dies dee, it still does not enable the light of lugus ritual. Also, is there any way to remove the special affects of these buildings? Nox Noctis is really drab and the Dies Dee's border looks like crap. Sorry it's not to bad but it can be annoying. Can there be an option to remove the affects? For now im removing both the buildings because I can't stand the looks.

The spell says Golems and Siege.

I don't know about the Inquisition question. Holy City?

Ah, couldn't find anything about it in the 'pedia.

You need a state religion - it removes non-state ones from your cities. So it doesn't work if you're Agnostic, like the Emperor.

Damn. Was hoping to eliminate that religion, as it's the only major one to have been founded... Only civs left in the game are myself, as the Emperor so agnostic, the Mazatl, the Grigori, the Clan, and now, the Infernal. Sheiam almost had a religious victory until I took them out, would rather not win that way myself. ;)

OK, I'm playing as Decius/Malakhim and thought it would be good to try that civ with Empyrean religion. I luckily find an Ecclesiastic in a lair early on and found the religion. I get a Great Prophet and get the holy building.

Then, I go blind. :cry:

At first I thought maybe my monitor went on the fritz, then I thought this might be some ingenious feature from the game/modmod developers.

I never saw this yellow aura around my monitor in the main game before.

It is annoying, distracting, and I fear my peepers may go bad.

Is there a way to get rid of it?

I, and the Society for the Blind, thank you for your response!;)

As I posted in the Balance thread (obviously the wrong place!) when I free Brigit from the RoC she appears with only Hero and (6+1Fire+3Holy=10). Now MagisterCultuum says (and everyone else agree) that she has a lot of nice promos and Angel race, but i just don't seem to get them...

The screenshot attached is a simulation of what happens when I enter the RoC with a Ranger (made Level 15 in the WB) My game version is FfH2.0.43h and FF0.43d

Another thing is that animals get killed, not captured when I use a Hunter with subdue animal promo. Griffins are the only exception. The third screenshot shows what happens after a line of Rangers (all with Subdue Animal) attacked a line of various animals seen in other two screenshots.

Can someone, please, tell me what's wrong?

thnx

LOL Sarisin, I JUST mentioned that above your post. Great timing. It seems im not the only one pissed off.

The building Dies Dee (or whatever) is linked to that aura thing. The only way to remove it as of now is removing the building in world builder. Hopefully they can add an option to remove that effect.

Erzherzog, well first off I think you listed the wrong FFH2 version. 0.43h is not even out. Do you mean 0.34h? And you mean subdue animal as opposed to subdue beast right? If yes to the above you might wan't to disable any modules or mod-mod's that you may have installed, and also reinstall fall from heaven 2 completely and the same for FF if that doesn't work.

So basically.

1.) Turn ALL modules and mod-mod's off except FFH2 and FF.
2.) If that doesn't work reinstall FF and patch up.
3.) If that doesn't work reinstall FFH2 and patch up then install FF again.
4.) If that doesn't work throw your computer against the wall and follow what this kid did. http://tinyurl.com/syvyg

Yes, that and the darkening that hiphopin mentions are both indicators of Light of Lugus (or Dies Dieie) and Shroud of Esus (or Nox Noctis). They had been cut out at some point till we could make them a bit more appealing, but I suppose they slipped back in when I merged things for the last big release.

You don't need the shrine to build LoL. In fact having the shrine will make it impossible to build the ritual. So still not sure why it isn't available to you.

The AI has a very different view of what it can "afford" to what a human does. It will happily drop it's research rate to 0 to handle maintenance if it's on a "Total War" strategy. That doesn't trigger too often - but certain leaders (Charadon, Daracaat and Kolsehvahn among them) seem to be more prone to it. Kolsehvahn also finds it a little easier to rush his production, having early access to slavery.

Hmmm, that makes sense. Especially since I went back to an earlier save and built up more troops. What was odd was in the first game, the Cualli was using mostly Chariots but when we ended up going to war again (slightly later than in the first game) the Cualli had almost none as well as having a lot less units. I guess in the second version of that game the Cualli didn't get that total war flag.

One bug I did find (which may have been mentioned before) is that my game was getting really slow in between turns and finally the game crashes with no error message other than the generic Windows "Sorry your program crashed; do you want to send an error report." Since I have an older Win XP machine, I play only standard size maps with 6-8 Civ's with rather basic options such as living world. In my last game, I hadn't even bumped into the Bannor yet, even though I had them on my map. I can't seem to find a common trigger; it's just like the game gets bogged down on something and then gives up.

Since I never played the Scion mod, I second what some people have been saying about a primer for them. I mean since they don't use food, it's easy 'wasting' time on certain buildings or techs before you remember they really don't apply to the Scions. Also, I'm having the same graphic bug I think previously mentioned where my Scion archers are either all humans or only one is a skeleton.

One question: is it built into the game that the Infernals must start in some forsaken icy wilderness? I've have played many a FfH/FF game where there is open land that no one, not even the Barbs have claimed, yet the Infernals spawn in a bad icy spot, hemmed in by Civs. It doesn't make sense. :confused:

LOL Sarisin, I JUST mentioned that above your post. Great timing. It seems im not the only one pissed off.

The building Dies Dee (or whatever) is linked to that aura thing. The only way to remove it as of now is removing the building in world builder. Hopefully they can add an option to remove that effect.

Sorry I missed your post - I think I was busy writing a previous post and didn't see it.

Are you saying you can delete the building in WB and eliminate the aura while keeping the DD and its effects?

If not, I think I'll start a new game.

As I posted in the Balance thread (obviously the wrong place!) when I free Brigit from the RoC she appears with only Hero and (6+1Fire+3Holy=10). Now MagisterCultuum says (and everyone else agree) that she has a lot of nice promos and Angel race, but i just don't seem to get them...

I'm noticing the same thing, Brigit has nothing but Hero when I capture her. She should certainly at least be an Angel.

Small nitpick: I said that all those promotions except Angel and Hero were my additions.

The minor downside of talking about your version when the discussion was about something else entirely at the time ;)


Civilopedia shows her as starting with Angel, and XML states she should have angel. I think the catch might be that she is captured with the same mechanic that workers use to grant a worker to the attacking player. And since that function was re-written to maintain race, Brigit (Held) needs to be an angel as well.


Hrm.. strike that, Brigit (held) is an angel.

In testing, if I place Brigit in worldbuilder, she is fine. If I capture Brigit (Held) from the Barbarians, the result is a non-Angel Brigit.

So for the time being, since Brigit has a post-combat Python function anyway, I'll just spawn Brigit via python instead of via Capture XML field.

@hiphopin: OK sorry, the version is 2.0.34h, it was a typo... if it matters at all, anyway... I did all that BEFORE i made the screenshots. This problem has been bugging me for days now... 4.) If that doesn't work throw your computer against the wall and follow what this kid did. http://tinyurl.com/syvyg Gee... Well, thank Agares I just speak their tongue as a second foreign, I'm not actually one of them. (Aber doch mag ich euch, Deutsche!!!!:D) :sarcasm:

I'm noticing the same thing, Brigit has nothing but Hero when I capture her. She should certainly at least be an Angel.

You see!!!! :crazyeye: I'm not hallucinating, I told you I wasn't!

My concern is that about subdue animals. Failing started happening after I installed FF. In FfH it's working fine. In FfH Brigit is Angel and Hero, but still no :nuke: Crown of Brilliance, Pillar of Fire and other perks that MagisterCultuum was telling about in the balance thread...

She is a bit lackluster, but not as lackluster as Erzherzog described as she should have Angel and Hero, and Fire affinity. In my version, he has Angel, Hero, March, Blitz, Flying, Command I, Valor, and Crown of Brilliance (which she gains back after every battle), slightly higher strength, twice the affinity, and the Pillar of Fire spell, and I obviously didn't take away the unit's intrinsic immortality. Freeing her also starts a golden age, but only Good civs can release her. (Neutral and evil can release an equally strong Odio from his prison instead.)

So It must be a FF bug, what else?? :dunno:

redundant, thus deleted

Small nitpick: I said that all those promotions except Angel and Hero were my additions.


Your 'additions' as the ones you customly added for your liking? Not the ones you wrote scripts for in the mod? I apologize for not paying attention. :stupid:

Then Brigit is as she's ment to be, right? Hero, Angel, 10 strength
But in FF she's just a hero, and Brigit (held) is just an Angel.

Found another Python exception, with the Governor this time.

Traceback (most recent call last):

File "CvSpellInterface", line 21, in canCast

File "<string>", line 0, in ?

File "CvSpellInterface", line 5306, in reqDarkC

UnboundLocalError: local variable 'bThemocPresent' referenced before assignment
ERR: Python function canCast failed, module CvSpellInterface

------------------------------------

Also found a Python error that affects each and every unit I try to move, rendering the game unplayable.

Traceback (most recent call last):

File "CvSpellInterface", line 21, in canCast

File "<string>", line 0, in ?

NameError: name 'reqSlaveTrade' is not defined
ERR: Python function canCast failed, module CvSpellInterface

File "CvSpellInterface", line 5306, in reqDarkC

UnboundLocalError: local variable 'bThemocPresent' referenced before assignment

Arghhh... typos! TYPOS!!!


NameError: name 'reqSlaveTrade' is not defined
ERR: Python function canCast failed, module CvSpellInterface

There's no reqSlaveTrade in the file, but there's a XML tag for prereqslavetrade, so I'd guess the python req shouldn't be in the spell file. Someone else would know for sure...

a couple oddities I noticed in my current Calabim game ( Patch D ) :

one of my cities grew into unhappiness even though it had the "avoid unhappiness" button checked. shame I don't have a savegame to check out what exactly happened there.

I attacked a scorpion clan goblin across a river, and no combat odds were showing.

Alexis' aggressive trait is giving combat 1 to some units that IIRC shouldn't get it, like workers, settlers and summoned skeletons ( from vampires )

btw, it would be nice if the marsh terrain was recolored a bit, right now it looks a lot like grasslands which is sometimes annoying.

edit: oh, and penguins are showing up green in the civilopedia. I've never seen them ingame though. :D

The avoid unhappiness button doesn't quite work right if the city will gain 2 :mad: when the population grows. Something we still need to work out proper code to account for without slowing things down.



Was your unit Hidden Nationality that was attacking the Scorpion Gobbo, and did your leader have the Barbarian trait?


Penguins in the Pedia are a bit off in base FfH as well. If I remember right it is actually your current Civ color that they wind up with. They'll be fine in the game though.

Thanks for catching the Aggressive issue. We are still trying to figure out what is going wrong with guardsman, similar issue on it. So this helps to narrow it down (but the skeleton SHOULD get it, they are Unitcombat Melee now)

First, i want to say that it's really a great mod, makes ffh even better than it was.
The new undead faction is one of the best in game, very unique with amazing units and structures, really like the style

Two problems i have encountered during my 405 turns game with the scions.
First, the Ai never use bombardment before attacking my cities, just send wave after wave of soldiers to die from my archers arrows.
it think it need some tweaking...
Second, the game is very laggy at the advanced stage, and i mean REAL laggy..im playing on large map with 9 players and i have never seen the game so slow when the turn ends.

am i the only one who had this problem ? i tried to lower my graphic but it didn't helped...

thanx for your work, and i am sure that next updates will make this mod even more amazing :goodjob:

Found another error when razing a city (playing the Scions)

assets/python\CvEventManager.py:2252: DeprecationWarning: integer argument expected, got float

no, my unit wasn't hidden nationality, and I was playing Alexis so no barb trait either. my neighbour was Jonas Endain, maybe the scorpion goblin was HN? I don't think that can happen though.

you're right about the penguins btw. if I look at their civilopedia page with no game going on they are random colors , but I've loaded up my calabim game, then checked them and they are definitely red :D

Found another error when razing a city (playing the Scions)

assets/python\CvEventManager.py:2252: DeprecationWarning: integer argument expected, got float

Thanks! The program doesn't like multiplying things by 1 anymore...

Yeah, the no combat odds thing is just wierd for now, but noted incase it helps reveal something bigger later on.

now that I think of it, the city that go unhappiness even though I had "avoid unhappiness" checked did NOT gain 2 unhappy faces by growing. it was at 7 happy / 7 unhappy, and it simply did not stop growth until it got 1 more unhappy face. I guess this was due to massive food production in that city, or maybe due to simultaneous turns. anyway, imho it should stop growth a little sooner to avoid such issues. possibly right after it gets to happy= unhappy. and having "avoid unhappy" ON by default would make sense ;)

Whenever you kill Alcinus when he is owned by another civ, or Korrina turns into a haunt, the unit looses all of its exp.

Yeah, the no combat odds thing is just wierd for now, but noted incase it helps reveal something bigger later on.

I will not see the combat odds when I use a HN unit like the Stooges or a Giant Spider when attacking a civ with the Barbarian trait like the Clan, Duracast or Charadon.

I posted in the FFH bug thread the last several versions about this.

So what's up with the Duracast/Spidey Guys?

The only three left in my game are me (Decius/Malakhim), Duracast and Scions/Empire.

I am on good terms with both and just fending off barbs as I try to expand.

In fact, the Duracast and I are on Friendly terms and share Empyrean religion. Then, he declares war on the Scion. As is usual for the game, he asks me to pile on the next turn. I refuse, and the relations are now Pleased.

Sure enough, about 6 turns later here comes a large stack of Brutes, Recluses, and what have you and he declares war on me. Now I have the barbs and a steady stream of Duracast units to deal with.

Only one negative thing in the diplomacy (refusal to declare war on the Scion) and he declares war on me. :confused:

This guy makes Monty look like a peacenik. ;)

Gekko;7504085']now that I think of it, the city that go unhappiness even though I had "avoid unhappiness" checked did NOT gain 2 unhappy faces by growing. it was at 7 happy / 7 unhappy, and it simply did not stop growth until it got 1 more unhappy face. I guess this was due to massive food production in that city, or maybe due to simultaneous turns. anyway, imho it should stop growth a little sooner to avoid such issues. possibly right after it gets to happy= unhappy. and having "avoid unhappy" ON by default would make sense ;)

You don't have a save game from a turn shortly before this happened by any chance? Massive food production shouldn't have any influence at all. I like to keep the avoid mechanism optional and off by default. To force it on might easily lead to a messed up AI (or a better one, who knows).

First, i want to say that it's really a great mod, makes ffh even better than it was.
The new undead faction is one of the best in game, very unique with amazing units and structures, really like the style

Two problems i have encountered during my 405 turns game with the scions.
First, the Ai never use bombardment before attacking my cities, just send wave after wave of soldiers to die from my archers arrows.
it think it need some tweaking...
Second, the game is very laggy at the advanced stage, and i mean REAL laggy..im playing on large map with 9 players and i have never seen the game so slow when the turn ends.

am i the only one who had this problem ? i tried to lower my graphic but it didn't helped...

thanx for your work, and i am sure that next updates will make this mod even more amazing :goodjob:

I had the exact same problem when I played the Scions. Oddly it seems its only them that cause it. I played a game on a larger map with more civs (note, I have the AI unable to choose the Fall Further civs) as Varn Gossam and had 2.5 times as many citys as I did with the scions and more units. And it was 3-6 times faster than my Scions game when loading turns I kid you not.

Just installed Fall Further and everything seems fine, but I get a weird issue when I start a game the intro movie doesn't run. Same with the initial info screen were it says "your civilization yada yada". It just skips straight to the currently selected unit. Also when I create a city, I can't name it, it just picks the default name.

Don't know what can be causing it. Anyone?

Edit:nvm... I just uninstalled and reinstalled the mod. Seems to work fine now.

One possibility is the spawning code is taking awhile to run. If that's the problem then it should be painfully obvious in the next version, but here's something you can try: Open the game in the World Builder and give one of your cities a population of 70. That should shut down the spawning calculation - see if the turn time alters.

A (probably stronger) possibility is Haunted Lands.

One possibility is the spawning code is taking awhile to run. If that's the problem then it should be painfully obvious in the next version, but here's something you can try: Open the game in the World Builder and give one of your cities a population of 70. That should shut down the spawning calculation - see if the turn time alters.

A (probably stronger) possibility is Haunted Lands.

The haunted lands was my first thought... I'm a bit over 400 turns into a game right now, going for cultural victory in 10 more :), and while I don't have much turn delay it DID get noticeably longer when I covered my first continent in Haunted Lands, and then a smaller jump when I covered my second continent.

Ok thanx

Is there a way to fix the haunted lands problem ? the scions are one of the coolest civ in the game, so i hope there will be a solution to this problem.

about the fix, should i had 70 population to my city or other player cities ?
and btw, what about the problem with the AI that never use siege weapon ?

To check if it's the spawn code affecting the game speed, add 70 pop to one of the Scion cities. If it's the haunted lands, it's most likely due to the fog in the graphic.

You don't have a save game from a turn shortly before this happened by any chance? Massive food production shouldn't have any influence at all. I like to keep the avoid mechanism optional and off by default. To force it on might easily lead to a messed up AI (or a better one, who knows).

unfortunately no :( I checked and I got a savegame on turn 50 ( way before that city was founded ) and one on turn 150 ( way after that oddity happened )

To check if it's the spawn code affecting the game speed, add 70 pop to one of the Scion cities. If it's the haunted lands, it's most likely due to the fog in the graphic.

Yep and yep - the other possibility for the Haunted Lands is the python run looking for wounded units.

Spawn python, graphics, or HL python I'm pretty sure something can be done. Just need to nail down where the problem is. My computer hasn't seen a significant slowdown yet. After "E" comes out I'll take a crack at figuring it out.

Is it supposed to be you can't revive Korrinna with Resurection? Because I can't. Also, only one Scion Archer has unique graphics, the other two men are normal. And Alincus, the Scion mage Counciler, losses xp (but keeps promotions) when he dies, allowing you to get huge number of promotions with him

Using patch D -- observed a number of barb animals roaming freely within Civ borders.

Had a bad mem allocation that caused a crash on turn 447 during the AI's turn. I think it's because I ended up declaring war to two other civs, one of which was the Lanun. I suppose the Lanun attempted to use their world spell and caused my computer to have a brain fart. (Standard Erebus size, nine civs + Basium & Hyborem, Standard speed, no dragon, no hell terrain).

Regarding the scions
I think I read somewhere that there was a hard limit on the overall number of reborns that can spawn randomly. That's too bad because, later in the game, there are lots of cities needing reborns, and it's fairly difficult to produce them just through cathedrals. I've got only two cathedrals so far, for about 18 cities.
I also thought that scions weren't supposed to be able to build granaries, herbalist, aqueducts (etc). These buildings have been available and largely unneeded.
The inquisition spell doesn't work either. What the heck does the "Gift" spell actually do? What about the Emperor's Mark? Are they supposed to do something?
I noticed a slowdown, but that seem to have been linked to the number of AI units running around. Once I knocked out two AI civs, the game sped up a bit. I didn't see any slowdown due to the Haunted Lands fog, if that's any help.
As regards that haunted fog, it would be cool if it extended into sea squares, in order to allow ghost ships (eventually).


An of course, the AI has been horrid. I've seen big stacks of enemy units just sitting in front of one of my vassal's cities. The two forces just sat there, eyeing each other for a very long time while I was capturing/razing many of the AI's cities. The AI's units wouldn't run back to defend their capital (all successive five or six of them by the time I destroyed the AI's empire). Nope... didn't even twitch. :)

One more thing -- how do you cast the Scion's world spell? With Alcinus becoming a barb in short order, the world spell just cannot be cast at all. Is that a bug?

Using patch D -- observed a number of barb animals roaming freely within Civ borders.

Maybe they're not barb animals, just Hidden Nationality? Although not likely, since in my FF games I CANNOT EVEN CATCH THEM!!!! :mad:

Please someone address this issue! :cry:

HN elephants are pretty useless! :lol:

Regarding the scions
I think I read somewhere that there was a hard limit on the overall number of reborns that can spawn randomly. That's too bad because, later in the game, there are lots of cities needing reborns, and it's fairly difficult to produce them just through cathedrals. I've got only two cathedrals so far, for about 18 cities.
I also thought that scions weren't supposed to be able to build granaries, herbalist, aqueducts (etc). These buildings have been available and largely unneeded.
The inquisition spell doesn't work either. What the heck does the "Gift" spell actually do? What about the Emperor's Mark? Are they supposed to do something?
I noticed a slowdown, but that seem to have been linked to the number of AI units running around. Once I knocked out two AI civs, the game sped up a bit. I didn't see any slowdown due to the Haunted Lands fog, if that's any help.
As regards that haunted fog, it would be cool if it extended into sea squares, in order to allow ghost ships (eventually).



1. The limit is between 20 and 70, depending on map size... I think it's between 40 and 50 for a standard. Personally, I tend to focus on building a handful of super-cities that get to where I can produce a reborn in 5-10 turns, and only then really worrying about my 'settlements'.

2. Originally, the Scions couldn't build the health buildings. Now, however, they automatically receive a two unhappiness building if their cities are too unhealthy, so the health buildings were reallowed.

3. Yeah, I had the same complaint about inquisition... Requires you to have a state religion, so it's unusable by agnostics. I know the Grigori have their own version, so I'd like to see the Scions be able to use that. The Gift spell grants units the undead race, so if you capture living units you can make them undead, and get the Implacable and Cannibalize promotions, along with the haunted lands buff. And lastly, the Emperor's mark is available in all cities actually built by the Scions while playing as the Emperor. It's required to build some units atm, although that looks like it will be removed, and works like a free Obelisk.

4. Actually, I'd like to see the Haunted Lands be reworked to operate along the lines of Hell Terrain... Keep it manually spread, but allow resources to change, along the lines of sheep to toad. Would be more in line with the 'pedia entry talking about all the strange things to be found there... Probably too powerful a change, though.

1. The limit is between 20 and 70, depending on map size... I think it's between 40 and 50 for a standard. Personally, I tend to focus on building a handful of super-cities that get to where I can produce a reborn in 5-10 turns, and only then really worring about my 'settlements'.

My two cities produce a reborn in 5 and 7 turns respectively. It's a shame though to have to use your very best cities just to produce reborns.

I also noticed a big problem with the maintenance cost of Honor Bands. Way off kilter (I think that was brought up earlier). I only had 5 of these units because of that, and by the time I had them killed off or upgraded, there was easily a 50 gold income difference.

Hrm.. strike that, Brigit (held) is an angel.

In testing, if I place Brigit in worldbuilder, she is fine. If I capture Brigit (Held) from the Barbarians, the result is a non-Angel Brigit.


I just noticed that when I capture workers (from the barbarian state at least) they lose their racial promotions too.

Edit: and then the next time I captured one it did have the promotion. How odd... Maybe it was a worker the barbs captured and it never had a racial promotion, but for some reason its graphics looked like a goblin worker.

Edit2: Now that I think of it though, that second time I happened to capture it with a units with a couple command promotions.

I just noticed that when I capture workers (from the barbarian state at least) they lose their racial promotions too.

Edit: and then the next time I captured one it did have the promotion. How odd... Maybe it was a worker the barbs captured and it never had a racial promotion, but for some reason its graphics looked like a goblin worker.

I've captured workers from several civs in my last game as the Scions, and while they all changed to the Scion worker graphics they were not undead. It SHOULD be either keeping the original race or applying the new one, but they end up with none for some reason.

I seem to be suffering massive slowdown while playing FF, even when compared to FFH. I play on duel-sized maps with only 3-4 AI's, but within 100 turns the turns are taking 5-6 seconds. It doesn't seem to be related to the civ i'm playing.

My specs are: 2.8 Ghtz processor, 512 meg graphics card (Nnvidia 7600 gt), 2 gig ram.

I also get slowdown in normal FFH, but it's not nearly as bad as this. It becomes unplayable ~200-300 turns in.

Turn off the Barbarian World option if you have it on.

My two cities produce a reborn in 5 and 7 turns respectively. It's a shame though to have to use your very best cities just to produce reborns.

That's WAD - The game-play is supposed to at least partially shift in focus from spawning to hammers or other methods. The idea is that it's generally hard to get population - early game you scramble for spawning modifiers, later you have to spend even more hammers. Or use war, or lots of $.


I also noticed a big problem with the maintenance cost of Honor Bands.

Next patch should see that fixed. The extra cost has been shifted from a straight +1 gold to extra support cost. That should make it more susceptible to influence from military civics, which makes sense. It's also part of the Heavy Formation promotion, which is more in line with what's supposed to be going on.

Xienwolf's fixed the buggy tag to we can go back to the old way if it is better.

Re: "Give Gift" and "Emperor's Mark"
"The Gift" is undead-ness. Next version it'll have an additional effect. (It'll be in the pedia.)
I've added a pedia entry for Emperor's Mark. Thanks!

That's WAD - The game-play is supposed to at least partially shift in focus from spawning to hammers or other methods. The idea is that it's generally hard to get population - early game you scramble for spawning modifiers, later you have to spend even more hammers. Or use war, or lots of $.

Fine. In the late game (turns 500+), I did have four cathedrals, so the issue wasn't as pronounced. On the other hand, by then I had way too much cash each turn (like +350/turn, with God King & 100% budgeted for research, while spread out all over the map). I was blowing off thousands of gold creating hordes of mercenaries on the last few turns. That did feel a bit overpowered. :crazyeye:

Thanks for the other info.

Is it supposed to be you can't revive Korrinna with Resurection? Because I can't.

Yep, I'll check it out. EDIT: Fixed. Had updated the spell req python, but not the python called by the spell req python...


Also, only one Scion Archer has unique graphics, the other two men are normal.

Known bug of some sort I don't understand.


And Alincus, the Scion mage Counciler, losses xp (but keeps promotions) when he dies, allowing you to get huge number of promotions with him

Xienwolf just supplied a fix. (All Hail Xienwolf.)

Is there some problem with the AI in regards to the Shieam and the Kahdi? I sometimes like to play games with the 'weaker' races so the game can focus more on diplomacy and the like without someone like the Hippus showing up on your borders with a zillion units saying, "Stand And Deliver!"

However, playing on Noble for everyone, I've really haven't seen the Shieam or Kahdi ever have more than a token of their specialty units. Off the top of my head I think I've seen one or two Moebius Witches and I can't remember the last time I saw any gate creatures for the Kahdi.

So what happens is I'm fighting the Kahdi and all they have is warriors and scouts. I mean it's pretty pathetic when I'm attacking with Praetorians, Redactors and the like and they are reacting with scouts! Even the Shieam have nothing but their Pyre Zombies.

Are these races just better left out of the game unless a human is playing them? I also concur with other posts where the AI isn't using archers and they will often ignore very significant threats during combat. Though I must say so far in this version of FF, I haven't seen the AI doing nothing but pump out lots of naval units for no purpose.

Fine. In the late game (turns 500+), I did have four cathedrals, so the issue wasn't as pronounced. On the other hand, by then I had way too much cash each turn (like +350/turn, with God King & 100% budgeted for research, while spread out all over the map). I was blowing off thousands of gold creating hordes of mercenaries on the last few turns. That did feel a bit overpowered. :crazyeye:

Thanks for the other info.

That's actually how I defend conquered cities... They're generally on a different continent, so I ship across my stack of doom and leave piles of mercenaries behind me to mop up. :D

It's also a good way to suddenly boost what is otherwise an average defense (this + mages with enchant weapons...)

Off topic... sorry. All done now. ;)

Okay -- here's a bonafide bug. Playing the Doviello. I have a series of Sons of Asena that don't get promoted, regardless of their XP's (25+ XP without a battle-earned single promotion).

that's because they have no unitcombat right now. will be fixed in patch E, fear not ;)

Hi, this save file crashes every time I end the turn. This is with patch D, Windows Vista Home Premium.

Gekko;7510768']that's because they have no unitcombat right now. will be fixed in patch E, fear not ;)

Is that it? Oh well...

Alright then, my Doviello army shall therefore commit seppuku and be promptly reborn as another Civ. ;)

Crashes for me as well Zeo :) Quite possibly it is due to the tech you just discovered, but I'll check it out more completely this weekend sometime and try to clear up the issue (next patch will probably break savegames though, sorry)

Is there some problem with the AI in regards to the Shieam and the Kahdi? I sometimes like to play games with the 'weaker' races so the game can focus more on diplomacy and the like without someone like the Hippus showing up on your borders with a zillion units saying, "Stand And Deliver!"

However, playing on Noble for everyone, I've really haven't seen the Shieam or Kahdi ever have more than a token of their specialty units. Off the top of my head I think I've seen one or two Moebius Witches and I can't remember the last time I saw any gate creatures for the Kahdi.

So what happens is I'm fighting the Kahdi and all they have is warriors and scouts. I mean it's pretty pathetic when I'm attacking with Praetorians, Redactors and the like and they are reacting with scouts! Even the Shieam have nothing but their Pyre Zombies.

Are these races just better left out of the game unless a human is playing them? I also concur with other posts where the AI isn't using archers and they will often ignore very significant threats during combat. Though I must say so far in this version of FF, I haven't seen the AI doing nothing but pump out lots of naval units for no purpose.

I don't know about the Kahdi, but I have had some problems with the Sheaim and their mass-building of Pyre Zombies. I have had stacks of them show up and even if you manage to kill them their explosions really do a job on you.

Maybe it is your Noble difficulty? I play at Monarch and while some civs do get into a Scout-Warrior rut, I find most pretty good at fielding a decent army. Also, using the option of no buildings required or something like that makes the AI armies tougher.

But, I think you are right about not seeing as many Gate creatures from the Sheaim.