Is there anything plan to include some sorts of mechanism to simulate the complex structure of the HRE? It played a central part in the RFeurope timeframe so that would be a very cool feature to add. And if anything is planned at this time, anyone have tought about some kind HRE mechanism to implant in the mod?:crazyeye: It would add a lot of historical flavor!:goodjob:

Is there anything plan to include some sorts of mechanism to simulate the complex structure of the HRE? It played a central part in the RFeurope timeframe so that would be a very cool feature to add. And if anything is planned at this time, anyone have tought about some kind HRE mechanism to implant in the mod?:crazyeye: It would add a lot of historical flavor!:goodjob:

There were discussions about implementing it as an AP function, but for now we've sort of passed over it for now. There was a long and ugly debate over whether we should include it as a civ, which we ultimately decided against (going with Germany, which is less historically accurate in some ways but more in tune with the civilization concept than the HRE ever was). That debate is over, but the concept of the HRE is definitely something we should address.

If someone can come up with a function for the HRE, which is codeable and will not completely unbalance the game, I think we'd all be willing to listen.

AP is still in RFCE as Papal States' pre-built wonder, though?

AP is still in RFCE as Papal States' pre-built wonder, though?

It will be, eventually. Lots to implement before then though. Just to put my 2 cents in about the HRE. As st. lucifer has says, this was debated back and forth for ages before it was finally rejected. The problem is interepretation. The HRE was, at various times in its history, different things to different people. Trying to depict the myriad changes in it throughout its history would be a nightmare IMO.

A raw idea:
I think the HRE should be elected among the catholic rulers and receive stability, diplomacy and espionage boni, BUT must intervene in defense of any attacked member, or receive a stability penalty.
A catholic civ should be able to join (stab. bonus) or leave (only once + stab. penalty) the Empire, although the mechanics are slipping from my mind right now ;)

What is more important IMHO is that it should be a game mechanic that is fun and interesting, historical accuracy shouldn't be the main concern because otherwise we would get to the same conclusion as the civ. A base of historical accuracy with a mix of fun gameplay component is the right recipe I think.

A raw idea:
I think the HRE should be elected among the catholic rulers and receive stability, diplomacy and espionage boni, BUT must intervene in defense of any attacked member, or receive a stability penalty.
A catholic civ should be able to join (stab. bonus) or leave (only once + stab. penalty) the Empire, although the mechanics are slipping from my mind right now ;)

Do you mean making something like Apostolic Palace? It would actually be a great idea;)

AP is still in RFCE as Papal States' pre-built wonder, though?

Isn't yet, but will be with some changes. Specifically, there's going to be a crusade function and possible some others, and the hammer bonus will be eliminated.

A raw idea:
I think the HRE should be elected among the catholic rulers and receive stability, diplomacy and espionage boni, BUT must intervene in defense of any attacked member, or receive a stability penalty.
A catholic civ should be able to join (stab. bonus) or leave (only once + stab. penalty) the Empire, although the mechanics are slipping from my mind right now ;)

What is more important IMHO is that it should be a game mechanic that is fun and interesting, historical accuracy shouldn't be the main concern because otherwise we would get to the same conclusion as the civ. A base of historical accuracy with a mix of fun gameplay component is the right recipe I think.

I like the suggestion. Historical accuracy with the HRE is either impossible, or impossible to avoid duplicating, depending on how you look at it - as Jessiecat said, it was many things to many people throughout its history, and it wasn't a static entity. So, I'd agree that we should strive to preserve function over precise historical accuracy.


Mostly, I'm just worried about the debate showing up again! :D

HRE and Crusades should be incorporated together with the Papal State. See the Papal State tread for what I mean.

Do you mean making something like Apostolic Palace? It would actually be a great idea;)

no, my idea is quite different actually... except for the election.

Split the HRE into a big alliance!

Split the HRE into a big alliance!

Why the necro?

I have a really simple but effective idea, and i cant believe no one has thought of it yet (correct me if i'm wrong):

The catholic civ with the most faith points is the Holy Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire gets stability points. The Holy Roman Empire cannot be a vassal. SIMPLE.

I have a really simple but effective idea, and i cant believe no one has thought of it yet (correct me if i'm wrong):

The catholic civ with the most faith points is the Holy Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire gets stability points. The Holy Roman Empire cannot be a vassal. SIMPLE.

I like it. And in addition, they get a opportunity to get control of the crusade and a much better relationship with the Pope and other catholic Civs.

I like it. And in addition, they get a opportunity to get control of the crusade and a much better relationship with the Pope and other catholic Civs.

I was also gonna write that. I like the idea! Some mods already have the "most favoured by the pope concept" like the included Charlemagne mod.

Thumbs up for the idea. :w00t: :thumbsup:

An other thing I suggested a long time ago, which can be implanted in this idea, is that the HRE is kind of the leader of the vanilla Apostelic Palace. All features of the AP remanes (maybe except that you have to build a wonder), but the +2:hammers: for religious buildings will be reduced to +1:hammers:.

Then can we expect an ugly reformation war, like history in 1618-1648?

I like it. And in addition, they get a opportunity to get control of the crusade and a much better relationship with the Pope and other catholic Civs.

Well sounds good too, though im afraid it will complicate things for the modders.

How about just stability bonus and a chance to take over crusade for the HRE?? Its much simpler (thats the idea), and the HRE wont be so overpowered too.

Its important to keep the idea of HRE in the game simple becos there are 100 different opinions on what the HRE should or is expected to do, which is why there were so many discussions on the topic of HRE.

Well sounds good too, though im afraid it will complicate things for the modders.

How about just stability bonus and a chance to take over crusade for the HRE?? Its much simpler (thats the idea), and the HRE wont be so overpowered too.

Its important to keep the idea of HRE in the game simple becos there are 100 different opinions on what the HRE should or is expected to do, which is why there were so many discussions on the topic of HRE.

I don't know exactly, but when 3Miro gave the Gardens of Al Andalus it's farm spread ability, he said it wasn't that hard, because he only had to change an ability from a tech to a building. I think (but I can be wrong), that changing an ability from a building to another thing isn't that hard either. (Or just give the pre-build catholic shrine this ability and do some little changes)