New Versions of WBSaves posted Dec 22 Small bug fixed, the signs should show up now.

Several of you have indicated your willingness to help out on extending/fixing City Name maps. These are the maps which control what a city is called when settled or renamed when captured by a particular Civilization. We have a large number of these maps mostly complete, but some Civilizations were only ever sparsely filled in, and there have been some changes to the map which necessitate revisions. I have generated WorldBuilderSaves for each Civ's settler map. These contain signs/landmarks which show what a particular Civ's city founded on that spot will be called. If you're interested in helping out, here is the procedure:


Post in this thread to say which city name maps you are working on.
Download the pack of WorldBuilderSaves attached to this thread.
Open up the map which is named after your civ. For instance, the Arab City Name Map is called Arabia_CityNameMap.CivBeyondSwordWBSave. On my computer, simply double-clicking on one of these file will cause it to launch correctly in Civ 4.
You will arrive at the starting game menu. Pick one of the first nations (Burgundy) and start a game.
Once the game loads enter WorldBuilder
You should be able to see the signs with city names.
Click on the "Landmark" tool in WorldBuilder and add/delete/modify signs to your heart's content. I think you can't actually modify a Landmark, you may have to erase a current Landmark and make a new one. This will also erase resources below it, but this is ok. Keep in mind that cities can be built with only one square separating them (they can never be next to each other), so it is ok for a 2x2 grid of squares to all have the same name, but it should never be larger than that.
In general, cities should be named in their native spelling. Latin-1 accents should be okay now. On my system I have no problem entering Latin-1 accents with alt escape codes http://tlt.its.psu.edu/suggestions/international/accents/codealt.html, saving as a World Builder Save and then re-opening, but you can also enter accents as html entites: http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/entities/latin1.html. This means you'll have to use the best "Westernization" of many Eastern or Slavic names.
While still in WorldBuilder, save your map.
Upload the map back here, along with a (brief) description of what you've done. I have a Python script which will steal the sign-names out of the file and put them back into the proper place in the mod.

I will somehow improve the Austrian map

I think in several cases one map will serve more than one civ. The original map I did for the Arabs also covered Al Andalus, Arabic obviously being the shared language. I've just had a quick look at it and will make a few corrections being I repost it here. That's 2 out of the way then.
Can we do this with France/Burgundy, Germany/Austria, Venice/Genoa and Moscow/Kievan Rus?
If one map can work for two it will make life easier for everybody.

I'll try to do some improvements for the dutch..

one question.. When I open op the worldbuildersave fot the dutch and enter worldbuilder, there aren't any landmarks on dutch terrain. However there is a huge terrain north of the balkans with landmarks and city names... Am I doing something wrong or?

No, you're not doing anything wrong. We've never had a Dutch map (or if we ever did it didn't make it into the code). That map you're seeing is the generic/blank map we have in as a placeholder for Civs without a map. Luckily the Dutch map should be small to create from scratch...

OK. Just finished revising the England CityNames map. Hows this?

EDIT Revised as per donbot's suggestions

I'll do the italian merchant republics to begin with, but keep in mind I don't have plenty of time to do this and most of all that the new version of RFC is out ;)

Austrian improved version 1

Erased all current names and put in Austria, Czech(not eastern) , Hungary (not eastern), Slovenia, Croatia (seaside and Zagreb), and northern Italy, as well as Bavaria...

Sedna I have a problem: I followed your instructions, but when I try to load the map saved through worldbuilder the game hangs (it loads forever). Any idea what's wrong ?

OK. Just finished revising the England CityNames map. Hows this?

I mostly agree with your map, but I do have a few suggestions.

-Swindon is a railway town and not suitable for the time period of the mod. I suggest moving Oxford one tile south and adding Banbury or Statford in place of Oxfords current tile, or Chippenham and Cirencester were towns in the area of Swindon

-Swap Windsor and Reading, as Reading is further north than Windsor

-I would have Durham rather than Richmond next to Newcastle

-Southampton is west of Portsmouth

I mostly agree with your map, but I do have a few suggestions.

-Swindon is a railway town and not suitable for the time period of the mod. I suggest moving Oxford one tile south and adding Banbury or Statford in place of Oxfords current tile, or Chippenham and Cirencester were towns in the area of Swindon

-Swap Windsor and Reading, as Reading is further north than Windsor

-I would have Durham rather than Richmond next to Newcastle

-Southampton is west of Portsmouth

Thanks for your suggestions. See above.:)

EDIT: Spain CityName map now done.

Sedna I have a problem: I followed your instructions, but when I try to load the map saved through worldbuilder the game hangs (it loads forever). Any idea what's wrong ?

Not yet. Which map are you trying to load? One of the Italian ones?

Is anyone else have this problem?

Thanks for your suggestions. See above.:)

EDIT: Spain CityName map now done.

Yeah Jessiecat, it's fine to double-up maps if there are no city names where the two civs would disagree. Your England map looks good, but your Spanish one is broken -- there is just one sign in it. Maybe the file got truncated on upload, or else...

EDIT: micbic, the Austria map looks good too. Thanks for filling in that important gap.

Yeah Jessiecat, it's fine to double-up maps if there are no city names where the two civs would disagree. Your England map looks good, but your Spanish one is broken -- there is just one sign in it. Maybe the file got truncated on upload, or else...

EDIT: micbic, the Austria map looks good too. Thanks for filling in that important gap.

I don't know why but it won't let my save the changes in WB. So this time I've saved it as a saved game which should be OK for both Spain and Portugal. This should open OK. A couple of issues though with this map. To make it work more accurately we need to make the following changes.

1. Move the Toledo indy 1 tile east.
2. Move the Pamplona indy 1 tile east.

Not yet. Which map are you trying to load? One of the Italian ones?

Is anyone else have this problem?

I loaded your WBS just fine. Modified italian city names based on the work I had already posted in the map thread (but since I didn't produce an excel version, I guess it was never implemented). I then saved the stuff through the worldbuilder save function, and planned to further modify it later to add italian city names abroad. The wbs I saved is the one I can't load. If I double click the icon from Windows the game will load -without the mod- and hang. If I load your WBS again, enter worldbuilder and try to load my changes, it hangs again.
Now that I think about it, I deleted Catania, moved the mountain and built Syracuse through the worldbuilder... might this have screwed something ?


edit:
this link might be of help for compiling city lists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_European_cities_in_different_languages

this link might be of help for compiling city lists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_European_cities_in_different_languages

Thanks for that, pal. Now this means I have to change all the names to Arabic on the Arab/Cordoba CityName map (from the Atlantic to the Black Sea). Great!:wallbash:

I loaded your WBS just fine. Modified italian city names based on the work I had already posted in the map thread (but since I didn't produce an excel version, I guess it was never implemented). I then saved the stuff through the worldbuilder save function, and planned to further modify it later to add italian city names abroad. The wbs I saved is the one I can't load. If I double click the icon from Windows the game will load -without the mod- and hang. If I load your WBS again, enter worldbuilder and try to load my changes, it hangs again.
Now that I think about it, I deleted Catania, moved the mountain and built Syracuse through the worldbuilder... might this have screwed something ?


edit:
this link might be of help for compiling city lists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_European_cities_in_different_languages

Hey onedreamer,

Can you post your (old) WBS, I can't find it in the map thread? Some change to the mod in the meantime will be preventing it from loading, but I should be able to convert it over and then post the new version from which you can continue tweaking.

Thanks for that link, too.

micbic, the Austria map looks good too. Thanks for filling in that important gap.

I plan to a) germanize city names and b) expand the map to poland, transylvania and until belgrad and lemberg

Right, so it turns out that WorldBuilder can display accented landmarks, but not save them. Stupid broken unicode support. I think the BUG people have managed to fix this, so I'm looking into it. I'm also going to have to update the WBS I posted above.


In the meantime:

Civ's unicode support is broken, so you should enter only regular ascii characters (no accents) in the landmark/signs. Since we want our city names to have accents, please provide an additional file describing the replacements that should happen. Like: Leon -> Léon. Even with this, we only have support for latin-1 characters. This means you'll have to use the best "Westernization" of many Eastern or Slavic names.

Hey onedreamer,

Can you post your (old) WBS, I can't find it in the map thread? Some change to the mod in the meantime will be preventing it from loading, but I should be able to convert it over and then post the new version from which you can continue tweaking.

Thanks for that link, too.

Sedna, the WBS I can't load is generated from your saves ;) I'll post it this evening. I went to dinner and saved and quit. Came back to load it, and can't.

In the map thread there are only screenshots. Here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6862614&postcount=364

Thanks for that, pal. Now this means I have to change all the names to Arabic on the Arab/Cordoba CityName map (from the Atlantic to the Black Sea). Great!:wallbash:

I did that on purpouse :P
But there isn't a specific arabian list ... too bad.

Yeah, if you post that WorldBuilderSave I may be able to salvage your work from it. Did you add any accented city names?

I don't think so but there is definitely one city with a space and I didn't use the html format, my bad >_<

Finished at last. Here is the revised combined Arab/Cordoba City/Name map. Big changes in Iberia but not so much in the Eastern Med where most of the names are fine. These do not have accents but I can supply most of them on request.

Sedna, attached is the wbs.
There is one fundamental problem with this process btw: I can't go about inserting labels for italian colonies or italian names abroad because I don't know the exact location of these cities on the map.
I think we should split this work in 2 phases:
a 1st phase where only "homeland" cities are compiled and sent to you. You can then collect them all and produce a single wbs, which is then edited again (2nd phase) civ by civ with localized names and sent back to you.

Just tidied up the Norse City/Name map. Not much to change though.

Austrian version 2 ready. Germanized city names ( eg maribor to marburg an der drau, bolzano to bozen etc):)

Wow, you guys are good and fast. You sure I can't convince any of you to learn Python?

Onedreamer, I intend to load these versions of the city maps into a new test version of the game, and then produce new/updated WBS saves, which I guess will help you accomplish your "two-step" process. Just have to make sure my other changes don't crash the game.

Sedna, attached is the wbs.
There is one fundamental problem with this process btw: I can't go about inserting labels for italian colonies or italian names abroad because I don't know the exact location of these cities on the map.
I think we should split this work in 2 phases:
a 1st phase where only "homeland" cities are compiled and sent to you. You can then collect them all and produce a single wbs, which is then edited again (2nd phase) civ by civ with localized names and sent back to you.

Sorry onedreamer, this file appears to be broken, I can't get much out of it. Spaces shouldn't be a problem. Perhaps you can try the new posted version of the Italy maps again.

Sorry onedreamer, this file appears to be broken, I can't get much out of it. Spaces shouldn't be a problem. Perhaps you can try the new posted version of the Italy maps again.

If you haven't incorporated the CityName map for Spain/Portugal in the new test version that's OK because I'd like to make some minor changes to it anyway. Thanks for moving Toledo and Pamplona. That helps a lot.

EDIT Thanks also for incorporating all the other CityName maps and the indy starts. Just downloaded the latest version and started as Poland. However they still start at Warsaw (see screenshot). Hadn't we decided to switch the start to Kracow? But they flip Breslau as planned which becomes Wroclaw. So the Warsaw start looks good as well. Which do people prefer?

A couple of problems with the indies though. Did you forget Yaroslavl? And Kazan hasn't been built at all (maybe because of the dense forest?). Samara has been razed by somebody. Smolensk has been captured by the Kievan Rus and Lubeck by the Norse. Aside from that, everything looks good. Thanks.

Austrian version 2 ready. Germanized city names ( eg maribor to marburg an der drau, bolzano to bozen etc):)

See what I mean ?
Micbic has Bozen where I have Trent, Venice where I have Padua etc, plus city called Weiden which I know nothing about in Friuli... all because he doesn't have my updated italian citymap. This kind of approach is going to create only a mess...

See what I mean ?
Micbic has Bozen where I have Trent, Venice where I have Padua etc, plus city called Weiden which I know nothing about in Friuli... all because he doesn't have my updated italian citymap. This kind of approach is going to create only a mess...

I can't understand why you're having so much trouble. I've loaded setna's Venecian CityName map and selected Burgundy, played one turn and saved the game. Then I exited to desktop, opened properties, find target, civ4 saves and got Richard turn 1 saved game. I just renamed it Italy CityNames map.
Here it is. All you have to do is edit it and save it as a saved game, NOT a WB save.
See if you can open this. It should work for you just as well IMO.

EDIT I've just opened it from this link. It works for me. It should work for you.

Jessicat, post #31 refers to post #25.

Attached is the city list for italian cities (in Italy), like Jessicat said I saved it normally instead of using WB. Note that like I said, this file is in obvious contrast with Micbic's.

Jessicat, post #31 refers to post #25.

Attached is the city list for italian cities (in Italy), like Jessicat said I saved it normally instead of using WB. Note that like I said, this file is in obvious contrast with Micbic's.

Sorry if that caused trouble.:cry: I am going to update as in your Italy map in the final Austrian version to post today

By the way, Weiden is the German name for Udine.

Attached is the reworked map for byzantium. I made a lot of changes to Asia minor, the levant and palaestina, north africa and the balkan. I added some city names for Italy, South of Spain, crimean peninsula.
North africa western of oran, southern of tunis, where the arabic names are, and the slavic names on the balkan need some work though.
I would move Damascus two tiles to the south because it it lies too far in the north.

Yes, ladies and gentlemen!! We are proud to announce that...Austrian map is ready:cool:!!!

To do until Tuesday: a) Make a Hungarian map in name ratio with the Austrian
b) Make some corrections to the German and Poland maps (so that the Germans don't capture Prag
and the city is renamed to Dresden, let's say).

@ onedreamer: I tried to replace my Austrian map as per yours. Mostly did it, but Aquileia and the other city in the north ( neither Gorizza nor Trento, can't remember it) hadn't German names so kept Weiden ( since they were both pro-medieval cities if ever Austria gets there, it will be in the actual era that Udine was a prospering town).

@ blackwhole: Did you correct Greece?

By the way, forgotten to attach the file!!!:lol:

Micbic, you didn't create any problem, I just think that we risk to create many errors accross the map unless someone double checks all maps.

Btw, if you're willing to update your map, Trento and Gorizia are Trent and Görz respectively for Austria.
Edit: you meant Cividale, that's Östrich in german.

Udine became more important around the 14th century. I'm fine with it in place of Cividale if you want, or just place it the square right east of Cividale.

Micbic, you didn't create any problem, I just think that we risk to create many errors accross the map unless someone double checks all maps.

Btw, if you're willing to update your map, Trento and Gorizia are Trent and Görz respectively for Austria.
Edit: you meant Cividale, that's Östrich in german.

Udine became more important around the 14th century. I'm fine with it in place of Cividale if you want, or just place it the square right east of Cividale.

I already updated it. Ostrich seems a good name (so this is not final version!!) and I am looking for a German name for Aquileia. In case there isn't, any info for coastal cities between Venezia and Trieste would be useful, otherwise I will keep it Weiden.

it's Aglar or Agley.

Does someone want to volunteer to be responsible for checking that individual maps all sort of agree on where the major/overlapping cities are? I'd love for that person not to be me :)

EDIT Thanks also for incorporating all the other CityName maps and the indy starts. Just downloaded the latest version and started as Poland. However they still start at Warsaw (see screenshot). Hadn't we decided to switch the start to Kracow? But they flip Breslau as planned which becomes Wroclaw. So the Warsaw start looks good as well. Which do people prefer?

A couple of problems with the indies though. Did you forget Yaroslavl? And Kazan hasn't been built at all (maybe because of the dense forest?). Samara has been razed by somebody. Smolensk has been captured by the Kievan Rus and Lubeck by the Norse. Aside from that, everything looks good. Thanks.

I agree with the Polish move to Kracow, more historically accurate -- that's just a separate file/syntax to figure out so I didn't get to it yet. I'll investigate what might be preventing Yaroslavl and Kazan from starting correctly and get around to boosting later rising cities defenders to prevent them all from falling too quickly.

I know it would be tedious but wouldn't a good idea be for someone to make a city name map completley full covering the whole map in English? That way people could just translate the city names and then there would be no problem with matching up cities to the same spot.

Sorry for lousy typing it's been a long day...

it's Aglar or Agley.

Thanks, I will update so.

@sedna17: I will do it for Central European maps (Austria, Poland, Germany and Hungary) expect results in 3-4 days.

Does someone want to volunteer to be responsible for checking that individual maps all sort of agree on where the major/overlapping cities are? I'd love for that person not to be me :)

I could do it but as you may have noticed I don't have a lot of free time, so it would take me a lot of time. I think it would be acceptable since it's not a major feature, still if there are better candidate I'll be glad, so I can also test-play the mod, which I haven't been doing :lol:

I've done something like that with the latest maps I've been working on. After revising my Spain/Portugal map and saving it, I decided to use it as the start of a France/Burgundy map. So I changed most of the Spanish names to their French equivalent and used that map to make my French one. I've finished that one so now we've got two maps covering 4 civs that are totally compatible with each other. Here they are.

EDIT Files removed for revision. Will be reposted below.

Does someone want to volunteer to be responsible for checking that individual maps all sort of agree on where the major/overlapping cities are? I'd love for that person not to be me :)

If it can wait till Monday, then I can do it then

We have to be careful with the city name maps.

Any change on the Balkans would have to be reflected in the Byzantines, Bulgarian and Ottoman maps. Parts of the Balkans are reflected in the Venice and Hungarian maps.

Any change to Asia Minor has to be reflected in the Byzantine, Arabic and Ottoman maps.

There are many other regions like that.

We have to be careful with the city name maps.

Any change on the Balkans would have to be reflected in the Byzantines, Bulgarian and Ottoman maps. Parts of the Balkans are reflected in the Venice and Hungarian maps.

Any change to Asia Minor has to be reflected in the Byzantine, Arabic and Ottoman maps.

There are many other regions like that.

Which is what I did with the Spain/Portugal and France/Burgundy maps as I've explained in my previous post.

Which is what I did with the Spain/Portugal and France/Burgundy maps as I've explained in my previous post.

Precisely my point. Everyone should be doing this, I think someone talked about changing the Byzantine map, but did not changed the others.

Precisely my point. Everyone should be doing this, I think someone talked about changing the Byzantine map, but did not changed the others.

I'd much prefer the person coordinating the Byzantine/Ottoman/Bulgarian maps was yourself, considering they are your much-improved version of my original attempts anyway.:D

I might have a go at the German map and try to extend it from the French map in the same way, but I'll need to see what the Austria map is like first. However, I can't do accents so I'll have to post it without. Is that OK?
EDIT Just looked at micbic's Austria map. It'll be easier to extend the Germany map from that instead.

I only changed the Balkan part of the Byzantine map. I feel pretty confident about that one (except for the couple of tiles that have changed from sea to land). I will see what the "new" Byzantine map looks like.

My problem with Genoa and Venice is the location of cities, since they had colonies far away from Italy. I'd have to look up in several different files and they might even be inconsistent with one another. And I could also use a final settler map.
Otherwise I could just place italian names all over, but there are italian names for practically all cities in Iberia, France, Germany and Byzantine Empire at its highest extent, so I am unsure this work is worth the time if then the italian states will never -or very rarely- reach certain spots.

onedreamer, do the best you can. Cover the territory that those are most likely to take first (i.e. Dalmatian coast). See how far you get. If necessary wait for others to complete the other maps and then do your one.

onedreamer, do the best you can. Cover the territory that those are most likely to take first (i.e. Dalmatian coast). See how far you get. If necessary wait for others to complete the other maps and then do your one.

@ 3 Miro. I've finished the German CityNames map which I extended from the Austria map already posted. You won't need the Austria map now as this one will work for both Germany and Austria. I've also made some revision to the France/Burgundy map I posted earler. These are now fully compatible with each other and with the Iberia map already posted. I've reposted them all here now for inclusion in the next test version if you've got time.
One serious issue has arisen though. Lubeck is completely in the wrong place.(my fault :blush:).
We'll need to move it 2 tiles west and 1 north (Think of the knight move in chess),
as I've already allowed for that new position on all the maps.

Files deleted and moved below.

Started a new game as Austria. Settled my capital on the spawn spot, and settled Zara? Where is Vienna? I assumed that Vienna would be the capital (or at least Austria would spawn at Vienna since it is part of the Ottoman UHV).

When I looked up Zara, I found it to be a name for Zadar, Croatia on teh Dalmatian Coast, far from where i settled.

Settling 2 other cities near the capital, the settled cities do not appear to have Germanic names: Kapronca (NW of the fresh water lake to the SE of Zara) and Pozsegavar (NE of the Wheat east of Zara)

Any thoughts on where Vienna actually is?

Started a new game as Austria. Settled my capital on the spawn spot, and settled Zara? Where is Vienna? I assumed that Vienna would be the capital (or at least Austria would spawn at Vienna since it is part of the Ottoman UHV).

When I looked up Zara, I found it to be a name for Zadar, Croatia on teh Dalmatian Coast, far from where i settled.

Settling 2 other cities near the capital, the settled cities do not appear to have Germanic names: Kapronca (NW of the fresh water lake to the SE of Zara) and Pozsegavar (NE of the Wheat east of Zara)

Any thoughts on where Vienna actually is?

Sort of East of the horses I think. See Wien near the top of this screenshot. Don't worry. It will all make more sense when the above CityName maps are included in the next version.

@ 3 Miro. I've finished the German CityNames map which I extended from the Austria map already posted. You won't need the Austria map now as this one will work for both Germany and Austria. I've also made some revision to the France/Burgundy map I posted earler. These are now fully compatible with each other and with the Iberia map already posted. I've reposted them all here now for inclusion in the next test version if you've got time.
One serious issue has arisen though. Lubeck is completely in the wrong place.(my fault :blush:).
We'll need to move it 2 tiles west and 1 north (Think of the knight move in chess),
as I've already allowed for that new position on all the maps.

Hey Jessiecat,

A few comments.
1) Micbic indicated he was going to work on synchronizing the central European maps, maybe you missed that post. Furthermore, he has identified several cities which have different German and Austrian names, so we will have different (though similar) maps for these two civs. Please attempt to co-ordinate work where possible.
2) Can you please post WorldBuilderSaves instead of normal saves? It saves me quite a bit of time.
3) I'm not sure which of 3Miro or will be processing these maps into the game files. I can do it generally, but they may not make it into the very next test version if that is the case.
4) I assume Lubeck is now in the geographically correct spot? It's quite easy to change indy-spawn positions, so we'll make sure that gets done.

I have no way of editing city name maps other than manual. Sedna if you have some scripts ready, could you do it?

I have no way of editing city name maps other than manual. Sedna if you have some scripts ready, could you do it?

Yeah, I'll handle it. RFCEMaps.py will be the only Python file I modify.

Hey Jessiecat,

A few comments.
1) Micbic indicated he was going to work on synchronizing the central European maps, maybe you missed that post. Furthermore, he has identified several cities which have different German and Austrian names, so we will have different (though similar) maps for these two civs. Please attempt to co-ordinate work where possible.
2) Can you please post WorldBuilderSaves instead of normal saves? It saves me quite a bit of time.
3) I'm not sure which of 3Miro or will be processing these maps into the game files. I can do it generally, but they may not make it into the very next test version if that is the case.
4) I assume Lubeck is now in the geographically correct spot? It's quite easy to change indy-spawn positions, so we'll make sure that gets done.

1. I did see that post but figured that was about everything east of Germany and Austria. Anyway I made my German map as an extension of his Austria map so they are in complete agreement AFAIK.
2. I'm sure one of you said saved games were OK but I've reposted the maps here as WB saves instead.
3. Doesn't matter when. They're there to use when you like.
4. Yes. The German map has Lubeck in the correct position but the spawn tile needs to be changed as I said (2 west, 1 north)

EDIT These WB saves won't open for some reason. Here is the screenshot of the error. So I will have to repost the saved games anyway. Sorry.

1. I did see that post but figured that was about everything east of Germany and Austria. Anyway I made my German map as an extension of his Austria map so they are in complete agreement AFAIK.
2. I'm sure one of you said saved games were OK but I've reposted the maps here in both versions anyway.
3. Doesn't matter when. They're there to use when you like.
4. Yes. The German map has Lubeck in the correct position but the spawn tile needs to be changed as I said (2 west, 1 north)

I don't think I posted that German and Austrian cities have different names ! German and Austrian names are 99,5% the same (and slightly different in 0,5%)
Anyway, thanks for extending the German map.
Just to know, as it would be better to be coordinated, I will be making minor changes to the Hungarian map. You could improve the Polish map where possible.

I don't think I posted that German and Austrian cities have different names ! German and Austrian names are 99,5% the same (and slightly different in 0,5%)
Anyway, thanks for extending the German map.
Just to know, as it would be better to be coordinated, I will be making minor changes to the Hungarian map. You could improve the Polish map where possible.

No. I didn't know there was any difference. But of course I didn't change your map at all. Just added German cities to it.Then I don't speak German, Im afraid. You're welcome to check what I did with Germany and change anything you like.
I'd like to improve the Polish map as I've extended German names through most of Poland on my Germany map. Though maybe it needs somebody who speaks Polish to do that.

I neither speak German.
You could check Wikipedia for city names in different languages

I neither speak German.
You could check Wikipedia for city names in different languages

There has to be someone that speaks German on this forum. We have people that speak such obscured language as Bulgarian, there has be someone who knows German.

There has to be someone that speaks German on this forum. We have people that speak such obscured language as Bulgarian, there has be someone who knows German.

Try Mitsho who lurks here on occasion. He's Swiss German. Or holy king who's Austrian.
But then nobody's perfect.:lol:

Try Mitsho who lurks here on occasion. He's Swiss German. Or holy king who's Austrian.
But then nobody's perfect.:lol:

I'm just not a poster ;) (and I hope your comment only relates to Austrians, right? ;-))

Well, it's simple, we're in exams time, I do not have time to do it. I could do it in January or after Xmas, but not before (the topic is synchronizing Austrian and German city name maps, right?)

Btw. I don't think there are differences between the two lists, and if, they are solemnly due to modern spelling dictionaries, not that important to include, (or to check 100 city names in the dictionary because of that).

mfg Mike

PS: the condition is that Basel gets included as a independent city! (just kidding ;))

Started a new game as Austria. Settled my capital on the spawn spot, and settled Zara? Where is Vienna? I assumed that Vienna would be the capital (or at least Austria would spawn at Vienna since it is part of the Ottoman UHV).

When I looked up Zara, I found it to be a name for Zadar, Croatia on teh Dalmatian Coast, far from where i settled.

Settling 2 other cities near the capital, the settled cities do not appear to have Germanic names: Kapronca (NW of the fresh water lake to the SE of Zara) and Pozsegavar (NE of the Wheat east of Zara)

Any thoughts on where Vienna actually is?

Zara is the italian name for Zadar.
Kapronca sounds Crotian and Pozsegavar Ungarian.

I've fixed up the Poland CityNames map (which didn't need much changing) and I've extended it to the Rhine using only Polish names (or German ones where its the same). Someone has suggested moving the Prague spawn a couple of tiles north so I've left it as it is on the Poland map for now (Which is where he wants it). Sorry about using a saved game but my can't seem to open my WB ones (some bug).

Zara is the italian name for Zadar.
Kapronca sounds Crotian and Pozsegavar Ungarian.

It sounds as if the coordinates for the austrian civ are mixed up, right? (gotta check that out!)

It sounds as if the coordinates for the austrian civ are mixed up, right? (gotta check that out!)

The revised Austrian CityName has been done but not loaded into the mod yet. Along with a few others. Hopefully soon.

There should not be 100 cities per city name map, cities on the map should take 2x2 tiles. It makes little sense to put one tile for Vienna and one for some small town nearby, so that suddenly we have no Vienna but a small town no one has heard of. In general everyone should follow the 2x2 scheme and first fill the map with large cities, then fill the gaps with smaller and less important ones.

It makes little sense to put one tile for Vienna and one for some small town nearby, so that suddenly we have no Vienna but a small town no one has heard of.

Do you mean Sankt Polten?? In case yes, I will remove it and post the new version

I picked Vienna at random, this is a general guideline for everyone making a city name map.

I picked Vienna at random, this is a general guideline for everyone making a city name map.

I don't mind going over all the maps I've done and doing as you ask, as they're coodinated together anyway. But I'm not sure with the Polish map I've just edited and posted. There are so many towns with 1 tile each and I don't really know which are most important, as its not my map.
BTW. Could you clear this up for me. I said I had to post saved games instead of WB saves cause I've had trouble opening them. You told us that saved games are fine but sedna now says they're a lot more work for him. Aren't my maps any use to you guys?:confused:

I don't mind going over all the maps I've done and doing as you ask, as they're coodinated together anyway. But I'm not sure with the Polish map I've just edited and posted. There are so many towns with 1 tile each and I don't really know which are most important, as its not my map.
BTW. Could you clear this up for me. I said I had to post saved games instead of WB saves cause I've had trouble opening them. You told us that saved games are fine but sedna now says they're a lot more work for him. Aren't my maps any use to you guys?:confused:

By the way in your extension a)some cities cover more than 2x2 (Memel, Riga)
b) a general problem. Some cities have a mis-placement in the city name maps and in the normal map as indies (Prag and perhaps Memel). I don't know which should be changed

I don't mind going over all the maps I've done and doing as you ask, as they're coodinated together anyway. But I'm not sure with the Polish map I've just edited and posted. There are so many towns with 1 tile each and I don't really know which are most important, as its not my map.
BTW. Could you clear this up for me. I said I had to post saved games instead of WB saves cause I've had trouble opening them. You told us that saved games are fine but sedna now says they're a lot more work for him. Aren't my maps any use to you guys?:confused:

Sedna needs a WB save for the city names (set comments on all the plots with the appropriate city name). When I am testing for bugs, I need a savegame so I can play couple of turns before and after the bug to figure out what is happening.

Sedna needs a WB save for the city names (set comments on all the plots with the appropriate city name). When I am testing for bugs, I need a savegame so I can play couple of turns before and after the bug to figure out what is happening.

As I've said so many times before. I can't give you a WB save. When I do that and try to open it, it crashes. I don't know why. I've posted about this before. Don't you understand?
Anyway, I've posted all the maps as saved games. There is no choice. If that's no good enough for your purposes, I'm sorry. I can do no more than that. I'm not being awkward. It's just the facts.

By the way in your extension a)some cities cover more than 2x2 (Memel, Riga)
b) a general problem. Some cities have a mis-placement in the city name maps and in the normal map as indies (Prag and perhaps Memel). I don't know which should be changed

Yes. Some cities like those 2 have more than 2x2, if they are pre-set indies. But that's all.

As I've said. I can't give you a WB save. When I do that and try to open it, it crashes. I don't know why. I've posted about this before.
Anyway, I've posted all the maps as saved games. There is no choice. If that's no good enough for your purposes, I'm sorry. I can do no more than that.

Double check with sedna, but here is what I think you should do.

Start the game, go to WB mode, add markers, exit WB mod, save_game

Later when you want to add more markers:
load game, enter WB mod, add markers .....

Once you are done with all the markers, save the file as WB file. You cannot open it (probably because it tries to load a new RFCE game), but sedna and I can (via TextPad or other editors) and we can just get the markers out of it.

I might be wrong about this (if sedna is doing something completely different), but I think would work.

Double check with sedna, but here is what I think you should do.

Start the game, go to WB mode, add markers, exit WB mod, save_game

Later when you want to add more markers:
load game, enter WB mod, add markers .....

Once you are done with all the markers, save the file as WB file. You cannot open it (probably because it tries to load a new RFCE game), but sedna and I can (via TextPad or other editors) and we can just get the markers out of it.

I might be wrong about this (if sedna is doing something completely different), but I think would work.

So are you saying that I can resave the saved games as WB saves that you can open them but not me? If so, I'll do that gladly and the problem is solved. Let me know and I'll do it for the rest of the maps in the morning. Thanks.

Edit I've just tried it with two. Can you open these? @sedna17. If you're reading this, please try to open these for me.

Edit 2. Germany map added, Poland tomorrow.

Edit 3. Poland map added

Okay, the problem is solved. The original WorldBuilder save file function was broken when it came to dealing with accents. These files that Jessiecat has been working with have accents in them, and so refused to save correctly as WorldBuilderSaves. Luckily the save functionality of WorldBuilder is in python so I was able to fix it. I can now read and use these save files. I'll push out this fix in the next version of our mod so that everyone using our mod will be able to save files even with accented landmarks files as WorldBuilderSaves in the future (thus saving me time). For now, I can access all these (regular) save files and will try to get them into the mod pronto. Don't worry, all your hard work was not for naught!

Okay, the problem is solved. The original WorldBuilder save file function was broken when it came to dealing with accents. These files that Jessiecat has been working with have accents in them, and so refused to save correctly as WorldBuilderSaves. Luckily the save functionality of WorldBuilder is in python so I was able to fix it. I can now read and use these save files. I'll push out this fix in the next version of our mod so that everyone using our mod will be able to save files even with accented landmarks files as WorldBuilderSaves in the future (thus saving me time). For now, I can access all these (regular) save files and will try to get them into the mod pronto. Don't worry, all your hard work was not for naught!

Great! The last two saves (Iberia and France) above are in WB. To them I've added Germany. I'll finish editing the Poland one in the morning and post it there too. If you can read those then they're ready for inclusion in the next test version. Phew! What a relief.

I picked Vienna at random, this is a general guideline for everyone making a city name map.

2x2 is a too large scale. Cities in the middle ages weren't metropolis. Also you should consider the different areas, in the far east a large scale is more appropriate but not in Italy, France and Central Europe for example, 2x2 should be only for very big cities.

@sedna 17

The CityName maps of Iberia, France/Burgundy,Germany/Austria and Poland are all posted above as WB saves. However there is a serious problem with the WB saves folder you posted earlier. I opened the Hungary, Russia and the Kievan Rus saves only to find they are identical. Each one is a Hungary WB save and even it is seriously flawed.
I think micbic is working on a brand new Hungary map. He'll need to as the original one is full of nonsense like Ragusa and Spalato near Prague. It looks like noone has ever done CityName maps for Russia or the Kievan Rus at all. No wonder people have had such problems playing with them.
Unless some brave soul wants to volunteer to do both, I'll have to do it. I'll start from fresh today but this is a big job as it is a huge area and has to overlap with Poland, Hungary, Byzantium and Bulgaria. It'll take a lot more than just a day or two for this one.

@sedna 17

The CityName maps of Iberia, France/Burgundy,Germany/Austria and Poland are all posted above as WB saves. However there is a serious problem with the WB saves folder you posted earlier. I opened the Hungary, Russia and the Kievan Rus saves only to find they are identical. Each one is a Hungary WB save and even it is seriously flawed.
I think micbic is working on a brand new Hungary map. He'll need to as the original one is full of nonsense like Ragusa and Spalato near Prague. It looks like noone has ever done CityName maps for Russia or the Kievan Rus at all. No wonder people have had such problems playing with them.
Unless some brave soul wants to volunteer to do both, I'll have to do it. I'll start from fresh today but this is a big job as it is a huge area and has to overlap with Poland, Hungary, Byzantium and Bulgaria. It'll take a lot more than just a day or two for this one.

I will post a Hungary map today, so as to make your job easier.

2x2 is a too large scale. Cities in the middle ages weren't metropolis. Also you should consider the different areas, in the far east a large scale is more appropriate but not in Italy, France and Central Europe for example, 2x2 should be only for very big cities.

No city would actually take a 2x2 area, the idea is that if you add a city one tile to the left of where Moscow is, you still want to see Moscow founded and not a small obscured town. 2x2 guarantees that there would be at most one Moscow on the map and at the same time improved the probability that there would be at least on Moscow.

I agree that Italy is a bit different. There ware many important cities in Italy and the land there is somewhat limited. So it makes sense to have many 1x1 cities, just as long as they are important and not something that only an Italian might have heard of.

@sedna 17
... It looks like noone has ever done CityName maps for Russia or the Kievan Rus at all. No wonder people have had such problems playing with them.
Unless some brave soul wants to volunteer to do both, I'll have to do it. I'll start from fresh today but this is a big job as it is a huge area and has to overlap with Poland, Hungary, Byzantium and Bulgaria. It'll take a lot more than just a day or two for this one.

You are correct, we have no name map for Russia. This doesn't effect gameplay though, you realize, right? Cities can't be founded on dense forests, and dense forests can't be chopped, so don't both coming up with names on the dense forests or swamps. That helps somewhat... still a big job.

I have spent a tiring night...I don't know how I'll wake up at morning... but the Hungarian map is complete!!:) I also attach a minorly upgraded Austro-German (that's what it should be called) city name map (movement of Ungwar and Munkatsch, some changes in Italy proposed by onedreamer, little change in Breslau placement, removed Sankt Polten, added Passau (only covering one tile))

By the way, which tiles are dense forests (I can't make out their design)?

Dense Forests are all the "snowy" conifers. Thanks for the new maps, I'll convert them over.

I am working at the russian map (Moscow and Kiew), but there are some inaccuracies in the map. The Dnjepr river needs to start several tiles in the north and needs to be stretched. The eastern arm of the river should start, where I set Smolensk. The rivers Desna, Pripjet and Dnjepr flow into one river two tiles north from where I set Kijev.
Otherwise it is impossible to generate a accurate city name map.
The attachment is far from complete, btw.

EDIT: The two-tile-sea in the north of Moskva didn't exisi in medieval times. It is an artificial lake constructed in 1935. ;)

I am working at the russian map (Moscow and Kiew), but there are some inaccuracies in the map. The Dnjepr river needs to start several tiles in the north and needs to be stretched. The eastern arm of the river should start, where I set Smolensk. The rivers Desna, Pripjet and Dnjepr flow into one river two tiles north from where I set Kijev.
Otherwise it is impossible to generate a accurate city name map.
The attachment is far from complete, btw.

Sorry, but I've nearly finished a Russian map which incorporates all the present independent city locations. I wish you said you were doing one as I 've already said I'd do it a few posts ago. Let me look at yours before I do any more. Maybe we can pool our ideas. But changing all the main city locations and river flows is not really a priority right now. It doesn't have to be geographically perfect with the size and scale of our map. Though we'd like it to be fairly close.
EDIT Tried to open yours but I get an error message. So I'll finish my map and post it tomorrow. Then you're welcome to comment on what I've done.

Minor fixes in Germano-Austrian and Hungarian maps (hopefully last)

1) Removed all dense forest and marsh city names (for practical reasons, since I know now that these can't be passed to the map).

Hungary
2) Removed that unknown city-capital (!!!) putting here Debrecen.
3) Expanded the names to the south Karpaty mounts (Sibiu) and through Danube (Vrsac)

Germany
4) Fixed as per the Hungarian where the maps had common points
5) Moved Prag to fill the indie Prag tile. Filled the gap by Teplitz and Pardubitz

@jessiecat: Could I format the Polish map to coordinate it with the others?

The files (Where do I have my mind???)

Minor fixes in Germano-Austrian and Hungarian maps (hopefully last)

1) Removed all dense forest and marsh city names (for practical reasons, since I know now that these can't be passed to the map).

Hungary
2) Removed that unknown city-capital (!!!) putting here Debrecen.
3) Expanded the names to the south Karpaty mounts (Sibiu) and through Danube (Vrsac)

Germany
4) Fixed as per the Hungarian where the maps had common points
5) Moved Prag to fill the indie Prag tile. Filled the gap by Teplitz and Pardubitz

@jessiecat: Could I format the Polish map to coordinate it with the others?

Sure. It wasn't my map originally but I tried to make it link with my German one which might be a bit different than yours in the German cities although I made it an extension of your Austria map. So they must be pretty alike. I think Sedna has coded those already for the next test version.
I don't know what to say about overlaps with the Russian one as somebody has gone ahead with their own version while I was still working on mine (which should be finished tomorrow sometime, I hope). It's good you and I are working together on this. I wish everybody else would try "singing from the same song sheet" as they say in this country.;)

EDIT This screenshot shows the only area where your Hungary map will overlap with the Polish one.
If you want to make them agree in this small area that'd be fine.

I am working at the russian map (Moscow and Kiew), but there are some inaccuracies in the map. The Dnjepr river needs to start several tiles in the north and needs to be stretched. The eastern arm of the river should start, where I set Smolensk. The rivers Desna, Pripjet and Dnjepr flow into one river two tiles north from where I set Kijev.
Otherwise it is impossible to generate a accurate city name map.
The attachment is far from complete, btw.

EDIT: The two-tile-sea in the north of Moskva didn't exisi in medieval times. It is an artificial lake constructed in 1935. ;)

Give me a screenshot and I'll update it.


I know I didn't do a very good job on the Russian rivers. This isn't the first fix.

OK. After 3 days of graft I've come up with a complete Russian CityNames map which can serve both the Moscovans and the Kievan Rus. It's not perfect but its a start. No doubt I'll be blasted for including obscure villages as space-fillers but every name is accurate based on an scanned 1870 map that uses Russian names in Western script without accents. The location of spawn points remains as now and the names are consistent with that. I'm sure our experts will point out numerous spelling errors and incorrect locations but everyone should feel free to edit this any way you want as long as you save your new version for Sedna to code. Please note that any city names using over 4 tiles are capitols or preset independents. All others use 4 or less tiles. And be gentle with me guys.This is an approximate map for the purposes of our game, not a geography Phd thesis.;)

Note. This is saved game, not a WBsave so everybody should be able to open it.

I want to update the italian city map but I need to open the updated byzantine one (post #36), though this crashes when I try to. Can anyone repost it as a save game ?

I want to update the italian city map but I need to open the updated byzantine one (post #36), though this crashes when I try to. Can anyone repost it as a save game ?

I can't open these WB saves from rar either. They just crash for me. That's why I'm only using saved games. They're so much easier for everybody.

ok I really hope someone can help with that. For now I updated the Arabian citylist in Sicily. I made it consistent with my italian map + used arabian names for sicialian cities (except Syracuse, which I can't find).

Note. This is saved game, not a WBsave so everybody should be able to open it.

Everybody except for me I guess -- it crashes. Can you re-post as a WBSave? Without any accents you shouldn't have a problem I hope.

I've incorporated Black Whole's Byzantium map, which is an extension of the old one, so should still be in sync with the Balkans. Attached is my WorldBuilderSave version of it, which is "clean" and should work for people to look at. I can't post a regular save for you guys right now, since my current version of RFCEurope is a version ahead of yours, so the save games are currently incompatible.

Black Whole's Russian map is very sparse still -- about 10 cities on it, so not too much duplicated effort here. Hopefully Black Whole and Jessiecat and St. Lucifer can all work together to improve the geography of Russia first and then improve Jessiecat's Russian City Names map.

P.S. Black Whole, your Russian city name map contains some characters I'm having trouble recognizing. For instance, I see the city called T&#x161;ernigov, which I assume is the city Tchernigov, Ukraine. I would probably translate &#x161; as an s with a caron or hacek, obviously a fine alternate transliteration, but (my copy of) Civ doesn't recognize it as a valid character. I think we should still with non-accented transliterations for now.

I'm sorry for the WBSaves. I can't open them too :(
I agree with sedna about the characters if they don't work.

I looked through your map, jessiecat, and here are my proposed changes so far:
1. Kiev should be renamed to Kijev
2. the same for Moscow -> Moskva
3. Azov and Rostov lie at the same spot and rostov was built in 1749, so I think it would be the best to remove rostov and keep azov.
4. the same for odessa (1794) it should be Belgorod Dnjestrovski
5. Polotzk -> Polotsk
6. Verluga should be replaced with Nishni Novgorod due to importance
7. Novgorod -> Veliki Novgorod
8. I'm not sure about Anada... I would replace it with Tmutarakan
9. Baklava -> Yalta
10. Kirilov and the area around the lake should be Bjelosersk.
11. In the western part, I would like to include the following cities:
Proskurov -> Halicz
Dubno -> Tarnopol
Konigsberg -> Kaliningrad
12. Kronstadt is only a small island, I would replace it with another name.

That's all for now, the rest looked good so far.

I will try to post screenshots about the new location of the river, since I don't know how to change it effectively.

@ Black Whole. I've incorporated almost all your suggestions to my Russian CityNames map except for these.
1. Rather than use the very long name you suggested for Odessa, I've used its original Khanate name, "Khadjibie".
2. Instead of Kaliningrad (very 20th.C) for Konigsberg I've put its Byelorussian name "Karalaviec".
3. I haven't changed Tver to Kalinin as thats a 20thC. name also. Tver is a very old name in fact.
Thanks for your help though.:goodjob:

@sedna 17. Thanks to the excellent suggestions posted above by Black Whole, I've revised the Russian citynames map. The capitols will now spawn at Kijev (Kiev) and Moskva (Moscow). I've included the WB save below for your viewing.

I've fixed up the Poland CityNames map (which didn't need much changing) and I've extended it to the Rhine using only Polish names (or German ones where its the same). Someone has suggested moving the Prague spawn a couple of tiles north so I've left it as it is on the Poland map for now (Which is where he wants it). Sorry about using a saved game but my can't seem to open my WB ones (some bug).

It was me (who wanted Prag in north). I have no problem with it now (that's why moved it in the German map).

Sedna, thanks for the WBS. However that Byzantine map is inconsistent with the italian and hungarian maps in Italy and the Balkans. I hope to have a fixed byz and a new italian maps for Sunday night.

Sedna, thanks for the WBS. However that Byzantine map is inconsistent with the italian and hungarian maps in Italy and the Balkans. I hope to have a fixed byz and a new italian maps for Sunday night.

Great. After that, the only really unfinished map is for the Dutch (unless someone posted one I missed).

ok I really hope someone can help with that. For now I updated the Arabian citylist in Sicily. I made it consistent with my italian map + used arabian names for sicialian cities (except Syracuse, which I can't find).

Syracuse in Arabic is spelt "Siraguza". (From the wiki site you recommended.):D

LOOOOL, I didn't see there was also an alphabetical list. Awesome page :D

@jessiecat: Can't open your Polish city name map. So no editing can be done.

I edited the city name map of micbic (landmarks for the Carpathian Basin) because I think that there is a quite big area (almost whole Transylvania) which had Hungarian settlements, and this part wasn't so accurate or I don't know. So here it is (attached). I tried to make every landmark an own name, but there were areas I couldn't.

@jessiecat: Can't open your Polish city name map. So no editing can be done.

It wasn't my Polish map. I just added stuff to the German side of it. Anyway I think Sedna 17 has already coded it for the next version. But here's a saved game of it anyway.

I edited the city name map of micbic (landmarks for the Carpathian Basin) because I think that there is a quite big area (almost whole Transylvania) which had Hungarian settlements, and this part wasn't so accurate or I don't know. So here it is (attached). I tried to make every landmark an own name, but there were areas I couldn't.

I hope you didn't put names on the dense forest (snowy) as you can't found cities there anyway.

I hope you didn't put names on the dense forest (snowy) as you can't found cities there anyway.
Unfortunately I did but the ones not there I think are correct. Because there were settlements like Postyen which do not have significance and have three tiles I wanted to change these things. Anyway sorry about putting names in the snow I'm a noob...

It's not terrible to have dense forest squares with names. I just thought it would save people time.

Ok I'm not so depressed about it :D. At least it's complete.

Unfortunately I did but the ones not there I think are correct. Because there were settlements like Postyen which do not have significance and have three tiles I wanted to change these things. Anyway sorry about putting names in the snow I'm a noob...

Replacing city names in a map means replacing these names in every map. So a new version of both German and Polish maps is needed to reflect your changes...(I will do them)

Allright but first I want to ask that should every tile has its own name or bigger cities should own 3-4 tiles?

bigger cities 2-4 tiles.

Replacing city names in a map means replacing these names in every map. So a new version of both German and Polish maps is needed to reflect your changes...(I will do them)

I'm not trying to put you off. But if sedna has already coded all these maps for inclusion in the next test version as he says, then won't he also have to recode each map all over again?

I'm not trying to put you off. But if sedna has already coded all these maps for inclusion in the next test version as he says, then won't he also have to recode each map all over again?

OK then. No new versions- posted are regarded as finished. So I will return to my previous ''job''-playtesting.

OK then. No new versions- posted are regarded as finished. So I will return to my previous ''job''-playtesting.

That's a "job" for all of us. I was just asking. Maybe sedna can tell us if its OK to do revisions once they're coded. If so, Great!

It's a couple seconds for me to take a WorldBuilderSave into a city map, so it's no problem to keep doing refinements. In fact, I encourage it, because we need to get good agreement between different maps and that obviously requires some back-and-forth.

It takes a lot longer if I have to check to see if a new map is "good" for inclusion though. Operafantom's latest map is too detailed, in the sense of too many small one-tile squares.

Perhaps it makes sense for everyone to take a little break from this. I'll get what's currently "good" into the next version, update the initial posts' WBSaves and we can iterate from there.

Ok here's an update:

Modified Albania and Zeta (added Kotor, Skodra and Vlore). Added Beirut in the Levant. Fixed some mess in Cyprus.

Italian maps:
- added italian city names for Dalmatia, Albania, Greece, Cyprus, Levant and Crimea (in line with Byzantine, I hope it's the same as the Russian one).

Hungarian map:
- updated to new Zeta

Byzantine map:
- completely redid Italy and Yugoslavia (+ Albania) to be in line with Hungary and Venice-Genua.

Todo:

(Micbic)
fix the italo-austrian border according to Micbic's Austro-german citylist. My problem is that I can't open his file !! Please Micbic repost it.


I edited the city name map of micbic (landmarks for the Carpathian Basin) because I think that there is a quite big area (almost whole Transylvania) which had Hungarian settlements, and this part wasn't so accurate or I don't know. So here it is (attached). I tried to make every landmark an own name, but there were areas I couldn't.

It's good to have new people working on city lists, however the file you produced is completely inconsistent in Dalmatia with Micbic's Hungary and with Italian republics (Sedna: please disregard it for now). Please readd the Transilvanian cities starting from the LAST Hungarian update, which means the one in this post. Also, if you change something please specify what you changed, because as it's been said many times, changes should be reflected in all maps.

It seems there is a problem at opening files .rar, at least I have a problem in that (getting the message "Failed to uncompress game data'' or something like that. Is there any possibility that the files are of the old version and I have the new or what???

The .sav file (hope you open it)

yeah sorry I used an old version (23rd November) And I can't open your file, same error.
Can you just post a screenshot of the area (Udine/Weiden etc) please ?

Yes. If the problem remains, it seems screenshots are the only decent way of working.
Sankt Flaum is on old Germanic name for Rijeka (Fiume in Italian, right?)

@sedna 17

Made some small changes to Russian CityName map S and E of Minsk due to shifting of Pripet Marshes on st. lucifer's improved map.

@sedna 17

Made some small changes to Russian CityName map S and E of Minsk due to shifting of Pripet Marshes on st. lucifer's improved map.

Sorry for the inconvenience - thanks for fixing it.

forgot to post updated italian names for the Austro-Venetian border (moved Gorizia, added Udine).

I'm re-purposing this thread as a general-purpose "coded-maps" thread.

So, I'm working on a general-purpose tool to aid in creation and display of RFCEurope "areas". The idea is that we need something like the RFC Atlas (http://zepto-angstrom.co.uk/scrap/rfcmap/index.html) so that people can check out spawn areas and victory condition areas. While pretty, that atlas is hard to produce with a simple program, slightly slow and online, so potentially difficult to check, etc.

I'm writing a simple program which will produce a schematic representation of the map with areas overlain. This program is also useful to me for easily making non-rectangular spawn shapes. Key features are:

1) Reads the map from the WBS, so when you run this program it's always up-to-date.
2) Reads and writes areas completely compatible with Consts.py

It also produces relatively small graphics files which we might be able to insert into the Civilopedia, for instance (I'm unsure how hard this is currently). At the very least, we can include up-to-date images with each version.

Here's a sample image. The Austrian spawn area used to be just a rectangle, but I extended it arbitrarily into a non-rectangular shape. Oh-ah. Alright, it doesn't look that impressive, but trust me, it was a bit of work. The idea would be to have one image with all the spawn areas, one with all the "normal" areas, and one for each territory-based UHV.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=197508&stc=1&d=1229538703

Comments? Suggestions? Do you think I should get back to work on fixing annoying crashes in the mod instead of wasting my time on this?

A. I don't think it's a waste of time and will be a great help to everyone.

B. Its been suggested that Austria's flip zone should extend west and north-west so they flip Prague and Augsburg when it spawns. Can you do this?

C. Fixing the dreaded 1400+ bug is a big priority if you have time. Please.:D

A. I don't think it's a waste of time and will be a great help to everyone.

B. Its been suggested that Austria's flip zone should extend west and north-west so they flip Prague and Augsburg when it spawns. Can you do this?

C. Fixing the dreaded 1400+ bug is a big priority if you have time. Please.:D

Let's flip Prague and leave Augsburg independent (but with a strong desirability value for Austria, Germany, and maybe Burgundy).

That starts the Austrians with one mid-sized city and Vienna, which will grow rapidly, and space for at least one more good one in the Danube valley, the forest NE of Venice (Tirol or Trent), or NE of their spawn.

We might also consider Augsburg on our independents-to-drop list.



Sedna, I don't think creating these maps is a waste of time at all. It's a big help to all of us, it's a resource we'll need to provide people with eventually, and it provides a platform for debating core areas, flips, and that sort of thing. Definitely worth pursuing.

it's very cool stuff. Actually, I think you could release it as a separate modmod because it would be useful for RFC too. There isn't an up-to-date Atlas for RFC.

@sedna: Sorry for being late in that, but playtesting has led me in updating the German and Hungarian maps. Could you take the time and pass the updates in your next version?

German version:
1) Re-fixed the Prag, now falls at the same square at the indy Prague and that change needs changing in much of the Czech Republic names-basically reverting them to what it PREVIOUSLY was.
2) Extended the names to Upper Transylvania, as per the Hungarian map.

Hungarian version:
1) Some extension at Danube, nothing else.

As per the spawn areas, it's generally a good idea to include them as they currently are at a PNG file. I don't disagree at any point-currently.

EDIT: @onedreamer: Could you post a screenshot at your improvements in the Hungarian map? That means that my current update is not ready-for-use.

Right now I can't, btw they only regarded Podgorica in Montenegro IIRC.

Right now I can't, btw they only regarded Podgorica in Montenegro IIRC.

Could you do it when possible?

I can't open the save anymore (it was with an old version) but luckily I still have a screenshot :D The city names are in italian:
Ribnica = Podgorica
Scutari = Skodra
Cattaro = Kotor

Thx a lot:goodjob:

So, so far I've only included Jessiecat's updated Russian map in the under-development version. Do I understand correctly that I'm waiting for micbic and onedreamer to make sure that new versions of the Italy, Hungary, and Germany maps are properly synced up?

And a reminder again, you MUST post World Builder Saves. With the latest versions of the mod you now all have my fix to the World Builder export function automatically and so you hopefully shouldn't have any of the old problems saving files this way.

The trouble with saved game files is that they are (sometimes) specific to a particular version. Since we have so many versions I can't possibly figure out which version each person was using on the date they saved and posted each file (even if I did keep all the test versions saved on my computer, which I don't).

So, so far I've only included Jessiecat's updated Russian map in the under-development version. Do I understand correctly that I'm waiting for micbic and onedreamer to make sure that new versions of the Italy, Hungary, and Germany maps are properly synced up?

And a reminder again, you MUST post World Builder Saves. With the latest versions of the mod you now all have my fix to the World Builder export function automatically and so you hopefully shouldn't have any of the old problems saving files this way.

The trouble with saved game files is that they are (sometimes) specific to a particular version. Since we have so many versions I can't possibly figure out which version each person was using on the date they saved and posted each file (even if I did keep all the test versions saved on my computer, which I don't).

The German and AFAIK onedreamer's Italian are ready. I am currently fixing-synchronizing the Hungarian map, expect finish shortly.

EDIT: Do not open the Hungarian file-it is the same as German. I now have to work from an older version-to-post-tomorrow

The one CityName map not done at all yet is the Dutch one. A small job maybe but best left to a Dutch-speaker for authenticity I think.

Here's an attempt at the Dutch map. I don't know how it matches up with the neighbors, though. Also, for the map, it might be a good idea to move the Dyes south a tile so Amsterdam has an appropriate, resource-free tile. It's unfortunate that the map doesn't really allow for Antwerp to have sea access, but oh well.

(Cales is Calais, Rijsel is Lille, Namen is Namur, Charnoy is Charleroi, Luik is Liege, others should be self-explanatory)

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/1315/screenshotby7.png (http://imageshack.us)

Thanks for the map Verily. Unfortunately it doesn't match up with the neighbor maps very well. Perhaps someone can see what they can do to either modify this map or the French/German/?? maps to bring them all into agreement?

I'm going to post new WorldBuilderSaves with the current city names shortly if that will help people make sure they're all on the same page.

Thanks for the map Verily. Unfortunately it doesn't match up with the neighbor maps very well. Perhaps someone can see what they can do to either modify this map or the French/German/?? maps to bring them all into agreement?

I'm going to post new WorldBuilderSaves with the current city names shortly if that will help people make sure they're all on the same page.

I'm not sure I've still got the latest saves for those. But if you post those I'll tie them up with the Dutch one.

Okay the latest versions are now posted on the first post of this thread. These are the ones I have put into the Dec 20th test version, and are mostly up-to-date, but I know micbic has promised a new Hungary, and I haven't been able to use onedreamer's latest Italy (due to saved game incompatibility).

well tough luck. I posted the save 2 weeks ago and specified it was a save game. Now, since I wasn't notified that it couldn't be imported (actually I kept reading they were insta-imported) I have deleted old RFCE versions. And Sedna, no matter how many times you repeat to save them in WBS. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

Okay the latest versions are now posted on the first post of this thread. These are the ones I have put into the Dec 20th test version, and are mostly up-to-date, but I know micbic has promised a new Hungary, and I haven't been able to use onedreamer's latest Italy (due to saved game incompatibility).

I hate to say this, but all the CityName maps in that folder are blank. ie. no names at all. I'll try and find the latest French and German maps in this thread and work with those.

EDIT I've revised and extended the Dutch map a bit. It should be fairly compatible with the French and German ones now. I've included both the WBsave and a saved game. Plus a screenshot.

If I hadn't made the idiot mistake of actually saving the German map as Hungarian and as German, the Hungarian map would be there yesterday. Anyway, after two hours of checking and replacing, it is ready for use.

EDIT I've revised and extended the Dutch map a bit. It should be fairly compatible with the French and German ones now. I've included both the WBsave and a saved game. Plus a screenshot.

Some suggestions:

Antwerp --> Antwerpen
Koln --> Keulen
Breda isn't approtiate, since it IRL is between Rotterdam and Antwerpen, so I'd replace it with Nijmegen (south) and Arnhem (north). The current Nijmegen could be replaced with Enschede (north) and Arnhem (south), and Enschede with Groningen.
Charnoy --> Charleroi / Namen (Sadomacho knows what's more approtiate)
Dunkerke --> Duinkerken
Cales --> Calais, as it is in France.
Aachen --> Aken. Also, Aken is east of Maastricht IRL.
Oostend --> Oostende

Is it necessary to expand these settler maps to some major cities outside their historical important area? E.g. Paris could become Parijs if conquered by the Dutch. If so, I'm willing to do this (for real now:p)

Some suggestions:

Antwerp --> Antwerpen
Koln --> Keulen
Breda isn't approtiate, since it IRL is between Rotterdam and Antwerpen, so I'd replace it with Nijmegen (south) and Arnhem (north). The current Nijmegen could be replaced with Enschede (north) and Arnhem (south), and Enschede with Groningen.
Charnoy --> Charleroi / Namen (Sadomacho knows what's more approtiate)
Dunkerke --> Duinkerken
Cales --> Calais, as it is in France.
Aachen --> Aken. Also, Aken is east of Maastricht IRL.
Oostend --> Oostende

Is it necessary to expand these settler maps to some major cities outside their historical important area? E.g. Paris could become Parijs if conquered by the Dutch. If so, I'm willing to do this (for real now:p)

OK. Why don't you load my saved game, make all the changes you think necessary then save it as WB save and post it here. That'd be great. Thanks.

Here's an attempt at the Dutch map. I don't know how it matches up with the neighbors, though. Also, for the map, it might be a good idea to move the Dyes south a tile so Amsterdam has an appropriate, resource-free tile. It's unfortunate that the map doesn't really allow for Antwerp to have sea access, but oh well.

(Cales is Calais, Rijsel is Lille, Namen is Namur, Charnoy is Charleroi, Luik is Liege, others should be self-explanatory)


I hate to say this, but all the CityName maps in that folder are blank. ie. no names at all. I'll try and find the latest French and German maps in this thread and work with those.

EDIT I've revised and extended the Dutch map a bit. It should be fairly compatible with the French and German ones now. I've included both the WBsave and a saved game. Plus a screenshot.

I'm open to moving the marshes around if we need to - especially if they're keeping important cities out of their right spots.

I'm also going to put a short river (2 tiles) going due N from the mouth of the others, to represent the Lys.

Some suggestions:

Antwerp --> Antwerpen
Koln --> Keulen
Breda isn't approtiate, since it IRL is between Rotterdam and Antwerpen, so I'd replace it with Nijmegen (south) and Arnhem (north). The current Nijmegen could be replaced with Enschede (north) and Arnhem (south), and Enschede with Groningen.
Charnoy --> Charleroi / Namen (Sadomacho knows what's more approtiate)
Dunkerke --> Duinkerken
Cales --> Calais, as it is in France.
Aachen --> Aken. Also, Aken is east of Maastricht IRL.
Oostend --> Oostende

Is it necessary to expand these settler maps to some major cities outside their historical important area? E.g. Paris could become Parijs if conquered by the Dutch. If so, I'm willing to do this (for real now:p)

In my looking things up, I discovered some old, no longer used Dutch names for places; those included Charnoy for Charleroi and Kales for Calais. Modern Dutch presumably uses the French names, but medieval Dutch would not have done so. (Oostende is a typo on my part.)

Edit: Actually, it should be Charnoy on the French map, too. The city was refounded as Charles-Roy (Charleroi) in 1666 for Emperor Charles V; for the vast majority of our time period, it was called Charnoy.

Hello,
I wanted to work a bit on the Norse city map, but there are no landmarks in the newest version.:(
Then I tried to go back in this thread and find the newest version of the Norse map. I found a somewhat old save from Jessiecat, but when I try to open the save file, I get an "unable to open file" msg.:sad:

Hello,
I wanted to work a bit on the Norse city map, but there are no landmarks in the newest version.:(
Then I tried to go back in this thread and find the newest version of the Norse map. I found a somewhat old save from Jessiecat, but when I try to open the save file, I get an "unable to open file" msg.:sad:

Unfortunately you are right on both counts. I can't open my old save either for some reason. And like you say, the folder containing the various CityName maps contains nothing but a bunch of blank maps. Hopefully, sedna17 will spot this soon and rectify it.

In the meantime, is there something you'd like to change about the Norse CityName map? I thought I'd made it pretty extensive, covering all of Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and the whole Baltic coast.

Unfortunately you are right on both counts. I can't open my old save either for some reason. And like you say, the folder containing the various CityName maps contains nothing but a bunch of blank maps. Hopefully, sedna17 will spot this soon and rectify it.

In the meantime, is there something you'd like to change about the Norse CityName map? I thought I'd made it pretty extensive, covering all of Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and the whole Baltic coast.

There are some things that I think could be improved. Heres a list:

- Kobenhaven -> København.
- When one founds a city in the northen part of jutland, at the tile at the east coast just south of the river, it should be Aalborg and not Århus.
- The north-eastern tile of the four tiles depicting Scania should probably have the name Christianstad, the name can be debated, but it definently shouldnt be Malmo imo (Which in turn should be "Malmø").
- The south-western tile in Scania (which I asume) has the name "Malmo", should perhaps have name "Lund" or "Malmø-Lund". Today Malmø is the bigger of the two cities, but Lund was the "capital" of Denmark in the 1100-1200 period, and perhaps the most importent city in Denmark 1100~1300.
- I havent looked that much at the city names used in Jutland, but atleast the city of Esbjerg didnt exist before 1868.

There are some things that I think could be improved. Heres a list:

- Kobenhaven -> København.
- When one founds a city in the northen part of jutland, at the tile at the east coast just south of the river, it should be Aalborg and not Århus.
- The north-eastern tile of the four tiles depicting Scania should probably have the name Christianstad, the name can be debated, but it definently shouldnt be Malmo imo (Which in turn should be "Malmø").
- The south-western tile in Scania (which I asume) has the name "Malmo", should perhaps have name "Lund" or "Malmø-Lund". Today Malmø is the bigger of the two cities, but Lund was the "capital" of Denmark in the 1100-1200 period, and perhaps the most importent city in Denmark 1100~1300.
- I havent looked that much at the city names used in Jutland, but atleast the city of Esbjerg didnt exist before 1868.

I bow to your expertise on those points. But i guess we'll have to wait on sedna to post some workable CityName maps before we can revise them. Won't be long, I hope? Anyway, thanks for your help.

There was a small bug preventing landmarks from displaying. New (working!) versions have now been posted on the first post. Go nuts. I'm happy to post-process maps to add in accents by-the-way.

There was a small bug preventing landmarks from displaying. New (working!) versions have now been posted on the first post. Go nuts. I'm happy to post-process maps to add in accents by-the-way.

Thanks. Just finished revising and correcting Arab/Cordoba CityName map. Removed mountain-top names and fixed the anomaly whereby a rebuilt Tangier was renamed Wufah instead of Tanjah. Not many accents. Arabic spellings are distinct enough IMO. Saved game and WB save below.

Hello guys!
I've edited Hungary citynamemap and the Carpathian part of Austria city name map. I attached them. What other civs' city name maps do I have to edit? The German map is really the same as Austrian?
Other thing: I looked at Ottoman city name map, and it also has problems (cities in the mountains for example).
Another: Can the river Tisza be changed? Because it's quite unnatural that Hungarian capital is Debrecen, and it's on the wrong side of the river. I attached a picture about what it looks like now and how I imagine it.
And another: I think Hungarian capital should be the tile which is Fehervar in my version. It's not in the zone of Wien and it has some resources, too.
What do you think?

And the city name maps:

@sedna: When and if possible,change the 1st French UHV territory area in the south, so as to exclude Aragon.

How are you going with the Kievan and Moscow city names? I just want to make sure that the most prominent kievan cities as Pskov, Polock, Smolensk, Novgorod, Chernygov, Vladimir, Suzdal are included and they are properly placed(with some resources so they are actually worth founding instead of other minor cities). I may be able to help as im now taking a course of russian history. just tell me how if you need my help.

Pskov: included (NW of Staiava Russa)
Polotsk: included (4-5 tiles NE of Minsk, maybe too much?)
Smolensk: included (3-4 tiles S of Moskva. Starts as independent city, spawns to Muscowy
Novgorod: included just north of Ilmen (?) lake. Starts as independent, doesn't flip till captured
Tchernigov: included E of Mozyr and W of Poltava
Vladimir: included just NE of Moskva
Suzdal: included just E of Vladimir (NNE from Moskva)

For Spain:

Logrono is Logroño
La Corunna is La Coruña (though it might be more adecuate as "A Coruña")

Also, when conquering Marseilles it appears as "Marsala" (should be Marsella).
Toulouse is Tolosa.

I don't know if Hispanized names (proposed Logrono and La Corunna) can stand at computers not having the Spanish language.
The Marseilles point is correct, and I will change La Corunna to A Coruna.

Civ has support for a limited set of accent characters. The Spanish ñ is definitely included. However, I think you'll need to enter it in the python file with its _numeric_ html entity code. See this page for a list. (http://tlt.its.psu.edu/suggestions/international/web/codehtml.html)

So you could do a simple find-and-replace on the City Names python file and replace
La Corunna with La Coru&# 241;a

Bah, no good way to write out the explicit form. You'd think the code tag might work. Anyhow, it's what I have above but without the space between # and 241

Thanks for explaining

When Byzantium built a city 2 SW of Athinai, the city was called Athenai. (I suggested to build a fort on the hill, but that wouldn't stop them from civil war:lol:)

Kobenhaven (norse) should be renamed into København

city two north of Copper in Jutland (1sw of the cows on the tip) should be Aalborg and not Aarhus

@wessel: My mistake, shall fix it
@sian: Will address it

Since working on the city name maps, given the fact that some of them are badly synchronized, is not too easy for me, I propose the following:
1) I make a map of a good number of important cities, which applies for every civ (Ok not for every- no Sevilla naming should be on the map for the Russian eg, except someone tries a conquest victory)
2) Localizers get a specific region under their command, which they know, make remarks on current placement in their region, and fill missing gaps with cities/towns in that area (note: in every map of their area)
Is it a good idea, or I should continue doing it the good old way? ;)

Since working on the city name maps, given the fact that some of them are badly synchronized, is not too easy for me, I propose the following:
1) I make a map of a good number of important cities, which applies for every civ (Ok not for every- no Sevilla naming should be on the map for the Russian eg, except someone tries a conquest victory)
2) Localizers get a specific region under their command, which they know, make remarks on current placement in their region, and fill missing gaps with cities/towns in that area (note: in every map of their area)
Is it a good idea, or I should continue doing it the good old way? ;)

I has a similar idea, but never did anything about it. There should be one gigantic map with what I propose to be modern names of modern cities. Then each civ would take a small portion of the map (relevant for the civ) and implement the historically and linguistically relevant names for that civ. This way things would be synchronized.

There are some issues, like modern Preslav is basically a small village, Shumen is the significant city in the region. Under Ottoman control Preslav renames into Shumen even thought the those are technically different cities. So some compromises of this type should be done.

Unfortunately I don't currently have the ability to participate in the map work.

I've some problems with Kazan (wasn't there until Mongol invasion, the old city's name was Bulgar), Kremenchursk which should be Kremenchug, and Crimean cities for Russia. Willing to participate in Moscowitizing the city names, if someone could please tell me what to do.

edit: double post

The following description is for making a city name map from scratch
1) Open the mod, most likely with a civ spawning before Muscowy, I prefer Poland (so as to view all independents as independents and not flipped cities). Note: Kremenchursk should be Kharkiv.
2) Open worldbuilder (haven't you ever used it? :mischief:)
3) Place city names as landmarks, each city name should cover 2x2 tiles maximum
4) Save the worldbuilder file, rar it and post it there. Then I will convert it to a ''properly working'' city name map.
P.S. If you want, do the same with eg the Kievans. An idea would be to give the Kievan map a more ''oldish'' atmosphere using medieval names, and the Muscowans a more modern one. I am currently doing the same with the Norse/Swede maps.

Well, yeah, from scratch, thanx a lot :) However, we already have rather good non-scratch map, so all I wanted was to introduce some fixes, not redo from the start. Can you please provide me with the current version?

Well, yeah, from scratch, thanx a lot :) However, we already have rather good non-scratch map, so all I wanted was to introduce some fixes, not redo from the start. Can you please provide me with the current version?

What format do you want these in? I can (relatively) easily provide world-builder saved games with the current city names as signs in the strategy layer. These would be one for each civ.

I did this at the start of this thread, but it was a lot of work juggling lots of little edits. I don't know how micbic works with these maps (possibly in a spreadsheet), but it might be easier for him (as grand-high city name master) if you work in the same formats.

What format do you want these in? I can (relatively) easily provide world-builder saved games with the current city names as signs in the strategy layer. These would be one for each civ.That would be perfectly all right with me. However, it's up to micbic. Filling the whole Mother Russia from scratch would require quite an evening from me :)

What format do you want these in? I can (relatively) easily provide world-builder saved games with the current city names as signs in the strategy layer. These would be one for each civ.

I did this at the start of this thread, but it was a lot of work juggling lots of little edits. I don't know how micbic works with these maps (possibly in a spreadsheet), but it might be easier for him (as grand-high city name master) if you work in the same formats.

If you could post up to date WB saves with the current city names, that'd be great. I'd like to check a couple of areas myself.
Also, in the absence of st. lucifer I'd like to make a few slight changes to terrain and resource placement in some areas. As 3Miro suggested I'll liase with micbic and Lexad on these. Initially I've posted some limited changes below to the British Isles for them to look at.

Briefly,
- added 3 tiles to extend N of Scotland, wooded moorland hills
- moved hills in NW Ireland to west coast, replaced with grassland
- added pig resource to S. Ireland
- added sheep resource to Norfolk, E. England
- added clams to E. Ireland near Dublin
- added fish to N. Cornwall, N. Wales and E. of London
- added several wooded areas to Scotland, Ireland and SW England.

@sedna: How do you transform WB files to city name maps? The method that I have figured out is somehow time-eating, specifically
1) Work the names on the WB as landmarks (as I did when I made my first maps, Austria and Hungary)
2) Save the file and open it with Notepad.
3) Open the RFCEmaps file, and replace with the information on the Notepadded WB. A sign, eg Bjorgvin x:22 y:18 (or something kinda like that) means that the city on the (x,y)=(22,18) coordinates has to be Bjorgvin, and I count 22 "columns" eastward, and 18 lines southward, to place there Bjorgvin

Ah, and before I forget (@all): Do you think the Norse map has to include Viking Era cities, or 1200-1400 (pre-renaissance) cities would fit better?

@sedna: How do you transform WB files to city name maps? The method that I have figured out is somehow time-eating, specifically
1) Work the names on the WB as landmarks (as I did when I made my first maps, Austria and Hungary)
2) Save the file and open it with Notepad.
3) Open the RFCEmaps file, and replace with the information on the Notepadded WB. A sign, eg Bjorgvin x:22 y:18 (or something kinda like that) means that the city on the (x,y)=(22,18) coordinates has to be Bjorgvin, and I count 22 "columns" eastward, and 18 lines southward, to place there Bjorgvin

Ah, and before I forget (@all): Do you think the Norse map has to include Viking Era cities, or 1200-1400 (pre-renaissance) cities would fit better?

I have two python scripts, one of which reads RFCEMaps.py and generates a WBS for each civ by adding signs to a (template) WBS file. The other script takes as input a WBS file for a given civ and spits out the properly formatted new array, which you then have to paste into RFCEMaps.py (I was too lazy to get around to fully automating that part). The scripts are a little klunky, but I could document and clean them up and send them to you. I guess you'd have to install a version of python if you wanted to run these under Windows? Not really sure how that all works with an archaic OS :)

For synching up different maps, this method sucks. There, you really want to see the arrays, probably in a spreadsheet or something. Umarth made a python script back in the day to convert WBS to a spreadsheet (.csv) file, and I modified it and use it for settler/war maps. The problem is, names are so long it's really awkward to view these huge arrays in a spreadsheet (works fine for the single digits in a settler/war map).

I think the Norse map should be Viking cities and the Swedish map should be pre-industrial names. Plain RFC renames some cities as a function of time, and we could (in theory) always implement a similar function.

I have two python scripts, one of which reads RFCEMaps.py and generates a WBS for each civ by adding signs to a (template) WBS file. The other script takes as input a WBS file for a given civ and spits out the properly formatted new array, which you then have to paste into RFCEMaps.py (I was too lazy to get around to fully automating that part). The scripts are a little klunky, but I could document and clean them up and send them to you. I guess you'd have to install a version of python if you wanted to run these under Windows? Not really sure how that all works with an archaic OS :)

For synching up different maps, this method sucks. There, you really want to see the arrays, probably in a spreadsheet or something. Umarth made a python script back in the day to convert WBS to a spreadsheet (.csv) file, and I modified it and use it for settler/war maps. The problem is, names are so long it's really awkward to view these huge arrays in a spreadsheet (works fine for the single digits in a settler/war map).

I think the Norse map should be Viking cities and the Swedish map should be pre-industrial names. Plain RFC renames some cities as a function of time, and we could (in theory) always implement a similar function.

Dang, have to rework from scratch

That's why I had the idea for starting with modern city names. Have one map that spans all of our Europe and puts modern city names for all the tiles. Then what we would need is to simply change those appropriate names for each civ/era. That way we can fix the location of the city of Varna (for example) and put the different names it had during the ages ( :) in more than 15 centuries and under three Empires Varna has never changed name).

It is a lot of work either way, though.

Dang, have to rework from scratch

If this is referring to Scandanavian city names, my comment was just a suggestion. If you've already done a lot of work with more modern cities, that's probably fine too.

sedna17
The question: if I provide you with csv file with names, would it be ok for you to convert using scribt into WBS?

If this is referring to Scandanavian city names, my comment was just a suggestion. If you've already done a lot of work with more modern cities, that's probably fine too.

No no no. I may be destruction, but at least I am a perfectionist destruction :lol:

Been meaning to say this for some time... am I the only one that thinks Spain's (or Iberian for that matter) part of the map is wrong?

Rivers aren't correctly placed (esp. Guadalquivir, the southest one), but my biggest concern is Cordoba, it just should be 2 tiles W, also making place for Granada, very important city during the Middle Ages. In fact, as it is now, you'll never see it built, though we have 1 wonder from there (The Alhambra)...

Believe me, I know, it's where I live. :)

It should be interesting to have also place for Sevilla, and change Cordoban and Spanish settler maps to ensure those get built.

In Andalusia there are too many productive resources and too few food ones (should be the other way around). Those should be in northern Spain.

I don't know if it's too late to talk about the map now, but if sedna, 3Miro or anyone let me I can change a bit the map myself and post it here to comment it.

sedna17
The question: if I provide you with csv file with names, would it be ok for you to convert using scribt into WBS?

I'm not sure I understand. I could do this. However, if the csv file has your corrected names though, I would just put it into the file that controls this for the mod directly. I could then output a WBS from that file as well.

Been meaning to say this for some time... am I the only one that thinks Spain's (or Iberian for that matter) part of the map is wrong?

Rivers aren't correctly placed (esp. Guadalquivir, the southest one), but my biggest concern is Cordoba, it just should be 2 tiles W, also making place for Granada, very important city during the Middle Ages. In fact, as it is now, you'll never see it built, though we have 1 wonder from there (The Alhambra)...

Believe me, I know, it's where I live. :)

It should be interesting to have also place for Sevilla, and change Cordoban and Spanish settler maps to ensure those get built.

In Andalusia there are too many productive resources and too few food ones (should be the other way around). Those should be in northern Spain.


I don't know if it's too late to talk about the map now, but if sedna, 3Miro or anyone let me I can change a bit the map myself and post it here to comment it.

I'm the one responsible for most of the stuff on the Iberia map. As it is I've already changed the Guadalquivir (it originally flowed into the Med.:crazyeye:). But I agree that it should be possible to build Granada even though it was never as important as Cordoba in Muslim times was it? I'm happy if you redo Iberia and post it as a WB save
like the one below showing where I think the cities should be. Your suggestions as to resource placement would also be welcome. Put them on the WB map as well. While I have been to Spain many times your local knowledge will be much appreciated.
BTW I always build Sevilla instead of Cadiz in my games. I think we could fix the city placement by moving the Cordoba start one tile west, making room to build Granada, as I have suggested before. How would that be for you?

Why would you ever build Seville instead of Cadiz? Cadiz is an infinitely better site.

Moving Cordoba one tile west takes the Barley and Wool out of its BFC and is generally a very much inferior city site for the first UHV. Really, I don't think Granada is all that important that there absolutely needs to be room for it to be built. Even with Cordoba moved one west, building Granada would be a waste (doesn't get any useful tiles not taken by Valencia/Alicante/Cordoba/Cuenca).

Also, Valencia is currently one tile north of where you have it on that map.

(Historically, Granada was briefly a center of administration under the Visigoths and then the Byzantines, a minor city in early Muslim Spain, completely destroyed in Muslim civil wars in the early 11th century, rebuilt in the 12th century and became significant only in the 13th century as the capital of the last Muslim territories in Spain. It was known as Ilbira for most of its time under Muslim rule.)

One more note I just thought of; I'm pretty sure Badajoz flips to the Portuguese, which is wrong. (Generally the "home area" and "flip zone" maps need major work.)

Well, the problem is Sevilla is far more important historically-wise than Cadiz. It was one of the most important cities in Spain after the discovery of America, just until the second half of the XVIII century, when comerce with the colonies was made more open. Before then every single spanish galleon from America entered there.

Even in islamic times, Cadiz was moreless a poor village, and Sevilla the region's capital.

As to the importance of Granada, it was the capital of the last islamic kingdom in Spain (XIII-XV centuries), and the last part of the Reconquista.

The city was taken the same year Columbus sailed (he even signed his contract here while the siege was in progress) and jews were expelled from the kingdom. Those three events are seen as some of the most relevant in Spain's history.

The cities' symbol (a pomegranate, as "granada" means that in spanish) was later incorporated into the emblem of the Habsburg ruling family, and now it's even present in the country's one.

I'd like to see the three cities present in the game, before any other southern Spain one, if that means to relocate the resources, should it be done?

Having Sevilla instead of Cadiz you lose a port in the atlantic and the "atlantic access" resource. The river (Guadalquivir) was navigable by those times. I can change one plains tile for a coast one... but I don't like how it looks. :(

I also agree that Badajoz shouldn't flip to the portuguese (for obvious reasons). And it could make sense to have Santiago instead of A Coruña as the indy city to be incorporated after spawn, even having a third one in the north (Santander?).

Quite right about Valencia. My error. As Cordoba, I always build Seville if only for historical reasons. I'll try Cadiz next time. Actually I agree with you about Granada as not very important. But I've enjoyed the place myself and the guy lives there. Give him a break.:lol:

Well, the problem is Sevilla is far more important historically-wise than Cadiz. It was one of the most important cities in Spain after the discovery of America, just until the second half of the XVIII century, when comerce with the colonies was made more open. Before then every single spanish galleon from America entered there.

Even in islamic times, Cadiz was moreless a poor village, and Sevilla the region's capital.

As to the importance of Granada, it was the capital of the last islamic kingdom in Spain (XIII-XV centuries), and the last part of the Reconquista.

The city was taken the same year Columbus sailed (he even signed his contract here while the siege was in progress) and jews were expelled from the kingdom. Those three events are seen as some of the most relevant in Spain's history.

The cities' symbol (a pomegranate, as "granada" means that in spanish) was later incorporated into the emblem of the Habsburg ruling family, and now it's even present in the country's one.

I'd like to see the three cities present in the game, before any other southern Spain one, if that means to relocate the resources, should it be done?

Having Sevilla instead of Cadiz you lose a port in the atlantic and the "atlantic access" resource. The river (Guadalquivir) was navigable by those times. I can change one plains tile for a coast one... but I don't like how it looks. :(

Sorry. We crossposted. Did you see my comments above and on the other thread?

BTW I always build Sevilla instead of Cadiz in my games. I think we could fix the city placement by moving the Cordoba start one tile west, making room to build Granada, as I have suggested before. How would that be for you?

Yes, I think Cordoba is too much on the east as it is now.

I like that idea, even though some cities are still wrongly placed, but I've played with the worldbuilder a bit and it's the lesser evil, as you put it.

I'd have Cartagena instead of Alicante (in the same tile). And as I've said, it could be good changing settler maps to make sure Cordoba or Spain build Sevilla and Granada at least.

Also have in mind the south of Spain is not supposed to be productive at all, only the copper near Cadiz/Sevilla indicates a real mining area.

As it is now Cordoba (the city) is a powerhouse and that should be changed. At its peak it was the hugest city in all Europe. You could say in the game that means a GP generator, not a production one.

I'd like Cordoba's survival to be as difficult as the Egyptian one in RFC; it's just how things are supposed to be, a doomed civ from the start.

Another thing, what if by 1550 the Spanish capital is automatically moved to Toledo (if already conquered), and renamed as Madrid?

Another thing, what if by 1550 the Spanish capital is automatically moved to Toledo (if already conquered), and renamed as Madrid?

I've done this playing as Spain myself. It takes about 6 turns. Why should the AI care?
It really doesn't need to be automatic IMO.

I've done this playing as Spain myself. It takes about 6 turns. Why should the AI care?
It really doesn't need to be automatic IMO.

Well, it's more of a matter of eyecandy than anything.

Same as the ottoman capital going to Istanbul in RFC, or renaming Edo as Tokyo.

As the scenario takes from 500 to 1800, for a lot of turns Madrid was the capital of Spain. Leon, Burgos, Valladolid and most of the other "old castillian" towns lost a great deal of importance.

I'm not sure I understand. I could do this. However, if the csv file has your corrected names though, I would just put it into the file that controls this for the mod directly. I could then output a WBS from that file as well.The thing I want to do is you give me csv with names already on the map (for Russia and Kievan Rus), me editing and sending you back, you putting it back into WBS. Is this feasible?

Well, here are the changes I suggest. I know there are more resources than before and that can be unbalanced.

Some of the city suggestions, I'd never build (like Cartagena, Málaga, Gijón and Tarragona), but sometimes the AI can be unpredictable.

There are also less hills in general, the land is less productive this way (as it should).

Something I have noticed about Iberia is when the Moors settle where Madrid is it is named Cuenca. Reading a book now about Al Andalus (A Vanished World, Chris Lowery) which mentions Cuenca as a small village 100 miles north of Madrid which was noted for its religious diversity. I think The Moors should name the town in the Arabic name for Madrid. The Moors founded Madrid and i think in Arabic it means place of water? I Know Ma or Mau is water. In normal RFC it goes to Al Magrit i think. Plus there is no C in the Arabic Alfabet so Cueca would be quenqa or Kuenka or some thing along those lines. I also agree would be nice to see Granada make an appearance have seen sevilla on occasion.

Question:What is the latest update for rfcEurope because all photos posted seem to have different colors for civs than I do.

Another thing, what if by 1550 the Spanish capital is automatically moved to Toledo (if already conquered), and renamed as Madrid?

Isn't Madrid on the city name map to the north of Toledo? (As it should be.)

Anyway, yes, Seville was much more important than Cadiz. But, since we can't represent Seville's ocean access very well, Cadiz is very much the superior site in-game. (Actually, IIRC the reason for Seville's decline and the eventual prominence of La Corunna in the late 18th century was because the Guadalquivir silted up enough that large ships couldn't reach Seville any more. Of course, by that time the Spanish colonial empire was in severe decline anyway.)

As for other cities in Spain, the Cordobans need Arabic forms for most of the cities in the northern half of Spain. This could be hard to find, but it's kind of silly to found "Cuenca" as the Cordobans. (IIRC it was actually founded as Kunka al-Kazabah under Arab rule. I'm not sure what standards for transliterating Arabic we're using, though, especially since the Arab city name map is in awful shape.*)

*For example, Byzantine Cyrene becomes "Barca" when conquered by the Arabs. Barca is the Greek name for a different city nearby; the Arabs would have called it Barqah. In any case, Cyrene had disappeared by the time of the Arab conquest, and the Byzantine city should probably be Barca if anything (maybe Berenike, which was the period name for modern Benghazi).




On a complete aside, this map (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/df/Roman_Empire_125.svg) explains where Rhye got the silver in Spain from. Maybe the silver should be moved south towards Alicante and another placed near Cadiz?

@jediclemente: Thx for the suggestions. If you could cover the whole Iberian area with Medieval era (1000-1300) cities, I would be grateful

And I don't think Madrid was an important city before 14th-15th century, it may occupy a place in the map though.

Just founded "Krosno" in western Poland. Krosno is in southeastern Poland; I think this is supposed to be Gorzów.

The way rivers are in the map, Madrid should occupy the same spot as Toledo or 1 tile north.

It was a very small village until it suddenly became Spain's capital around 1560. But onwards it became one of the most important cities in Europe (as it is now).

That's why I proposed the auto-renaming and palace-moving thingy. Of course it shouldn't make sense from the AI or the player's point of view to found the city, as in the settlermaps it should be just next to Toledo.

Another synching issue: Minsk is renamed Nowogrodek when captured by Poland. Nowogrodek is a different city; the Polish name for Minsk is just Minsk. Edit: Also saw the Norse capture Lubeck and it become Kiel; it should be Lybæk.

Is there a better way of reporting these than by posting them here? (Some way to have the most recent settler maps posted?)

I could have done it already, but currently am reworking the whole maps instead of doing minor fixes. I will post a new file tomorrow as a 'minor patch' to be included to the next version. Thx for the reports.

@jediclemente: Thx for the suggestions. If you could cover the whole Iberian area with Medieval era (1000-1300) cities, I would be grateful

And I don't think Madrid was an important city before 14th-15th century, it may occupy a place in the map though.

Be careful what you are suggesting about a whole new list of city names for Iberia. What is there already is not perfect but it does fit, in most cases, for 3 civs. Changing for Spain will mean changing for Cordoba and Portugal as well as all the present Arabic names. A lot of work and could effect civ starts as well.

Well, at least moving Cordoba 1 tile west and moving some resources should be easy?

Well, at least moving Cordoba 1 tile west and moving some resources should be easy?

Which is exactly what I'm going to do. Thanks for your map. Resources will be changed much as you suggest. But I'll do it in the morning. It's late here, as it must be in Granada. Buenas Noches. Hasta Luego.:D

A small fix for city names. Kharkiv doesn't become Kremenchursk, Samara doesn't become Petrovsk, Krosno is now Gorzow (Landsberg), Minsk doesn't become Nowogrodek, and La Corunna is now A Coruna. Thx to Lexad, Verily and JediClemente for pointing these out :)

Hi, a bit of help is needed. I would like to change some of the citynames for the Norse, but for some reason the WB crashes when I try to open the file I downloaded from this thread. I know nothing of coding or suchs. but I think its a version-issue. So a bit of help is needed, please. :)

Indeed it is version-related. I will post the Norse maps as they are right now-make the changes you want, and post the new file, which I will implement ;)

where can I find the current RFCE maps, so I can make some changes?

where can I find the current RFCE maps, so I can make some changes?

Do you mean the Worldbuilder map? If so, start a game, switch to WB, make some changes and save it as a WB save. Then post it here for everybody to look at. Map changes at this stage will be fairly minor and subject to agreement.

@Allan79:There is a file in Assets/Python named RFCEmaps. It includes all settler, war and city name maps, in coded format. If you want to change them just make some ''find and replace'' things in any of these. Transforming one of those into a WB-based map and vice versa is some work indeed.

BTW: I don't know whether the maps should change given the 2 tiles minimum distance...

I don't think the maps should need to change with the increased (minimum) city spacing. The AI was basically told to settle that far apart normally anyway.

I thought it would be something like this:undecide:

IMO the Norse map should contain Viking-era settlements and is the only map that needs much changing. Make sure it is synchronized with other maps.

I'm having problems with the Spain city name map. According to the game I just played, Madrid is directly East of Toledo(INCORRECT). There are also many problems with the Cadiz-Seville area as it is impossible to found both of those cities. This isn't really a problem with the city-name map though, we just need to go back to the 1 tile city spacing rule. Single spacing is also important if Madrid and Toledo are going to both be founded in the same game, the same goes for Braga and Oporto. (also, is there a way to keep Al-Andalus from consistently founding Granada(garnata) on the Bronze resource? It's kind of annoying. Also... where the hell are the Madeira islands??? They're just- not there....?

I'll see if I can make some improvements to the Spain map. Also, please change the spacing rule, please. I'm willing to give up production for historical accuracy. :)

Oh, I forgot, Spain doesn't have any city names for Southern Morocco, parts of Sicily, Southern Italy, Genoa, and the Netherlands. I'll work on that too.

I keep getting errors 2 seconds after the map starts loading.

I already answered in the other thread, but you can easily change the spacing.

Just look for this lines

<Define>
<DefineName>MIN_CITY_RANGE</DefineName>
<!-- Rhye -->
<iDefineIntVal>2</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>


in Assets\XML\GlobalDefines.xml

and change the 2 for a 1. You shouldn't use Notepad (Wordpad is better).

But nobody is going to make city names for the areas I mentioned?

Well I get an error when I try to do that, and I think more people would be better off if it just could saved as 1.
Can you even name the reasons why we have it as 2??? I can't.

I thought it would be something like this:undecide:

Instead of Flensborg, which is a more modern city, that site should be Hedeby.

Well I get an error when I try to do that, and I think more people would be better off if it just could saved as 1.
Can you even name the reasons why we have it as 2??? I can't.

I think I answered that question in the other thread. Most people would not be better off with the 1 tile spacing. Packing a lot of cities into a small space might look good to you historically but all you end up with is a lot of small, crappy cities that you can't defend and produce nothing. And your finances will be crippled with maintenance costs. And you will never win a game either. Is that what you want?
Ask yourself this. Do I want to build a few powerful cities so I can win the game or do I want to build a lot of cities so I can make a pretty map? You can't have both.

A to-do list:

1) Remove all accent graves. DONE
2) Replace Vibo Valentia DONE
3) Revise Norse map (at least in Denmark)
4) More work in the Spanish map (Sicily, Netherlands, Peloponnese) PARTIALLY DONE
5) Remove all silly Hungarizations-where there is no Hungarian name use the slavic and do not create a hungarization DONE
6) Expand the Hungarian map to the north

EDIT: Post 263 now.

A to-do list:

1) Remove all accent graves.
2) Replace Vibo Valentia
3) Revise Norse map (at least in Denmark)
4) More work in the Spanish map (I actually thought I had fixed the Sicily thing)

Have you got a WB version of the Spanish CityName map? If so, I'd like to look at it too. It should have names in N and W Africa, and Sicily. I'm sure it did in the original version.

A WB? No, I work them as .txt files (as painful as it may be)...

Pretty map is good, but I've learned to deal without it, besides on some instances it does let me found them close to each other. :rolleyes:

The bigger problem I have come to discuss is the lack of city names for the Spanish settlers outside of Spain. West Africa, Sicily, Southern Italy, Southern France, the NEtherlands. (I even ran into a blank tile inside of Spain, west of Valencia)

I would gladly do all this myself, but I can't seem to get the map where I edit it open , I keep getting an error right after picking the leader.

Can anyone please, in a very meticulously detailed manner, explain to me (as if I were 8 years old or mentally challenged) how to find the right file, and get to where I can edit it? :confused::confused::confused:

Pretty map is good, but I've learned to deal without it, besides on some instances it does let me found them close to each other. :rolleyes:

The bigger problem I have come to discuss is the lack of city names for the Spanish settlers outside of Spain. West Africa, Sicily, Southern Italy, Southern France, the NEtherlands. (I even ran into a blank tile inside of Spain, west of Valencia)

I would gladly do all this myself, but I can't seem to get the map where I edit it open , I keep getting an error right after picking the leader.

Can anyone please, in a very meticulously detailed manner, explain to me (as if I were 8 years old or mentally challenged) how to find the right file, and get to where I can edit it? :confused::confused::confused:

As you can see in post 229, Micbic is going to look at the Spanish map again. Let him do that. He's editing all the maps at the moment. As I said before, I think you may be the only person who really wants 1 tile spacing between cities, so it'll probably stay as it is. 2 tiles between cities is about close enough IMO.

hmmm I get the feeling you guys just don't want me tampering with those maps. :(

I'm originally from Spain myself, I think I could contribute. :)

...
And the Madeiras???
Nobody seems to care, is there a secret anti-Madeira Islands conspiracy I'm not aware of?

hmmm I get the feeling you guys just don't want me tampering with those maps. :(

I'm originally from Spain myself, I think I could contribute. :)

...
And the Madeiras???
Nobody seems to care, is there a secret anti-Madeira Islands conspiracy I'm not aware of?


Feel free to suggest whatever you like but somebody's got to be in charge of different jobs and Micbic is doing maps (for his sins).
BTW You're not the only Spanish guy here. JediClemente still lives in Granada. And why should I hate Madeira? It produced Christiano Ronaldo didn't it? And Man.U beat Porto 1-0 on a Ronaldo goal tonight. Now for the semi-final against Arsenal.:goodjob:

"Sid Meier's Civilization 4 : Beyond The Sword has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience."

Every time I try to load a map. Any suggestions?

Michael Vick, I tell you I already proposed a lot of changes to the city locations and to the map itself in Spain, but at this point it's not worth it. Too much work when other areas need improvement too.

By the way, the game lacks texts in spanish for the most part. I've tried to put them in the wonders I add, yet there's still a lot only in english. It is in my to-do list, but the last weeks I've dedicated more time to RFC:A (and still a bit to RFCE wonders).

It'd be nice if you could help there.

And why should I hate Madeira? It produced Christiano Ronaldo didn't it? And Man.U beat Porto 1-0 on a Ronaldo goal tonight. Now for the semi-final against Arsenal.:goodjob:

(sorry, offtopic)
Oh, so it must be true any englishman from out of Manchester supports United and from the town supports City... Anyway, prepare to be beaten in Roma by the best european squad. I don't need to say which is it. :D

Feel free to suggest whatever you like but somebody's got to be in charge of different jobs and Micbic is doing maps (for his sins).
BTW You're not the only Spanish guy here. JediClemente still lives in Granada. And why should I hate Madeira? It produced Christiano Ronaldo didn't it? And Man.U beat Porto 1-0 on a Ronaldo goal tonight. Now for the semi-final against Arsenal.:goodjob:

Where you ManU fans will be beaten by Wenger's young armada :D
Returning on topic, post 229 will be used as a general plan-making. Any new info about more work or finished work will be added there, so make sure you take looks at it.
And please, for some not definitive problems (ie city west of Valencia has no name) please post a screenshot ;)

I like the idea of 2 tiles between cities. The only comment is what you can see on the picture. This will always happen if Vasteras is build.

Yeah, this is a general problem with requiring 2 spaces between cities. It will require a little adjustment to the code which governs civ birth.

EDIT: I think this same general problem is what sometimes ends up exiling the Dutch to Iceland (with 1-tile spacing).

Hrmm. I now realise the 2-tile spacing, even if no one build cities close to the Netherlands, means LESS cities buildable by the Dutch.

I think that, in vanilla RFC when Ottomans spawn, Gordion autorazes. Something similar might be the case here?

Instead of Flensborg, which is a more modern city, that site should be Hedeby.

Yes of course ;)

Yes, the two-city spacing rule is rather tough on the Dutch. Spawning civs could auto-destroy cities in their way, that seems... harsh somehow. All those poor people. Maybe we should return to 1-tile spacing.

Hrmm. I now realise the 2-tile spacing, even if no one build cities close to the Netherlands, means LESS cities buildable by the Dutch.

YES! Who is 1 tile spacing hurting?? Just the people who want cities with 1 tile spacing. Nobody is forcing you to have unproductive cities!! It should be the player's choice. Think of the poor, poor Dutch....

Now that we're starting to listen to me, lol, how about the introduction of the Madeira islands to the map??

I think the limit should be set to one because then everyone's happy, I mean you can still place your cities two tiles apart if you want. Also, this is why the limit is just one in RFC, because of spacing, spawns and stuff like this.

Thank you, Metal Alloy Man.

These for Micbic, unless someone can explain how I can get to edit this my self.

Ummm wait,ya, I have screenshots to upload but they are bmp and 5 MB each so I it won't let me, what do I do?:confused:

Thank you, Metal Alloy Man.

These for Micbic, unless someone can explain how I can get to edit this my self.

Ummm wait,ya, I have screenshots to upload but they are bmp and 5 MB each so I it won't let me, what do I do?:confused:

Civ screenshots are always jpeg. usually at less than 150k each. Why are yours bmp? see example below.

@Michael Vick: IMHO the basic reason for changing the tile spacing rule, was the AI behavior, it was many times turtling, so in order to make for a more ''challenging'' AI, the thing was changed back to 2-tiles. Moreover there is far more space in RFCE for civs to place cities, so...

Just finished a game as Spain and some of the med. still seems to need work. Founded Palermo which the computer named Murcia, though Syracuse was spelled how it is in Spanish. Then Founded a city where Olympia should be in Greece which also Came out Murcia. Morrocan cities all seem to be working good founded Tetouan and Casablanca which both had correct names.
Now playing a Game as Hungary and Utica showed up when founded a city near the cow resource south of Poland.