We haven't discussed a new flag for our new Nation yet (if we have, I missed it and apologize). I would like to propose an idea of using the in-game Army flag (shown below) with the in-game Germanic color of blue (a close resemblaence also shown below). If one of our graphics-design-capable people could design a flag using the solid blue cross over a white "X" (without the block style) on a solid blue background, I would appreciate it. I thought about using this idea for the last game, but never got around to it.

This thread is for all proposed ideas for a new flag and discussions thereof.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Fanatika_Flag1.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/germcolor.jpg

Cyc, just FYI, a Blue flag with an X through it is essentially the Scottish Flag, That's how they got the current British Flag. A mixture of the Red Cross with White Background (English Flag) and the Scottish Flag.

However, it would make sence with the Army units, but wouldn't be creative or Germanic since in essence it would be Scottish.

Perfect i think. This looks almost like the german war-flag in former days. Just in blue.
The cross represents the belief in the one, which will be the middle of the universe (cross). Our nation is with the one, so we are in the middle of all being and reach our arms out to govern all of it.

Sound good to me.

Originally posted by disorganizer
The cross represents the belief in the one, which will be the middle of the universe (cross). Our nation is with the one, so we are in the middle of all being and reach our arms out to govern all of it.
It's the second game though. What if there's no One there? What if there are Two there?

Well, we would need two crosses. But i still trust in "the one" being in all games ;-P

You could also replace "the one" in my post with "our fine nation". FANATIKA in the middle of the known world, reaching out to the neigbors to soon govern all of the known and unknown world.

In response to Falcon02's reply, I've put together a comparision. The first flag is Scotland's flag:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Scotland.jpg

The next one is a rough draft of what I mentioned earlier:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Scotland1a.jpg

It's darker and kind of has an iron cross look to it. Kinda.

Anyway, does anyone else have a suggestion?

Can we come up with something like an official seal, or an emblem that best represents Fanatika? I'd be against actually placing the word 'Fanatika' on the flag.

I could have sworn the Scottish Flag was a true Blue, like what you have for our flag. However, with the Cross, I kinda like it... but could we make it a different color? I'd suggest Red for the contrast if it weren't for the fact that it's too close to the British Flag then... How about a Black, or Yellow cross.

Originally posted by Shaitan

It's the second game though. What if there's no One there? What if there are Two there?

The One will always be there. Do not doubt...

Kinda reminds me of the old Scottish flag...

Well, keep in mind all our Armies in the next game will be waving frekin' Scotish flags, OK? ;)

cyc: what about mixing the german war-flag with the scotish flag?

What does the German war flag look like?

BTW: Dis, are you german?

While I'm at it, I've also compiled each of the armies from the individual eras.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Armies.jpg

The black cross flag used as well as symbol on german war-parts (like tanks) and on a flag... i will try to find it somewhere.
If someone else does, please post so.

No complaints here about using the Scottish flag :D ;)

Could this be what your looking for?

http://www.grey-net.com/fotw/images/de-bwclr.gif

This the cross you're talking about, Dis? (on the side of this 'ere tank)

http://www.battletanks.com/images/PzKw_III_Ausf_E.jpg

Perhaps that little black cross could be our flag by itself...

I think it might be a little too WWII for its own good...

Well, i dont mean the white one in the front of the tank but the black one on the side of it. It was also there as a nicer flag version.

I will search soon. stay tuned ;-)


And btw:

THIS IS NO WWII issue! The german war flag was there since the beginning and has nothing to do with ANY of the world wars. It still exists nowadays on any german tank or plane ;-)

Don't forget though - we're not Germany. We are using the stats for the German civ but we are Fanatika. I like Cyc's idea because it's based on the Civ flag, not a converted real world flag.

Well, nobody thought about the takeover of a real flag. Just to implement a alike flag to represent the ideas ;-)

Nevertheless, the flag i thought of was almost like cycs just it looked not so ... scottish ;-).

Im still searching, but i didnt find it yet :-(
It was almost like the one attached, only with a red background and more like a rectangle (also the cross in it).

i will continue the search though, but i dont know the exact name of the flag so it will be hard to find :-(

The attached one is the flag of the german admirality of the royal army.

another idea: why use a normal rectangle flag?

the flags normally used for example at war or for military in former days ware squared or in other fancy forms ;-)

like here:
holy roman empire of german nation / imperial war flag (962-1806):
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/de_sacr3y.gif

Teutonic Order (1309-1525):
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/de_teu3y.gif

Imperial Navy (German Empire)
Flotilla Pennant 1867-1945 (nowadays Squadron Commander Pennant):
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/de_com2y.gif

so why not use one of those shapes?
(i had to change colors. blue would be white in original, white would be transparent as those parts of the flag are non-existant)

I also think the flag of the "grandmaster of the teutonic order" is nice and could be reworked:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/de_teut.gif


I would propose using the "german cross" as one element for representing the civilization we play, and other parts to represent our ideals or something.

The eagle in the middle normaly represents the teutonic monarchies. Maybe this would lead to a change of flag when we discover democracy?

Good resource for flags:
http://www.fotw.ca/

As Dis, said it's not a WWII issue, the German Army used that symbol in WWI and they still use it today (If you don't believe me I can post a picture of Modern Luftwaffe Jets with the German Cross on it). It's like saying the USSR flag is too WWII, or the US flag with only the 48 Stars, it has nothing to do with the War or the Leaders, just Nationality and overall era, not just WWII.

I think we should have the German Black Cross with a twist, maybe with the Scottish Flag background, I don't know, but I like the Idea of playing with the Symbol for the German Armed Forces. And BTW I prefer the Curved version over the rectangular version of it. Adds a bit of flare.

Looking at some these designs, and improvising on my own, I've designed my own proposal.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/newflag2.jpg

Looks good Octavian X :). I was hoping fore more of a German flag from its Imperial days (Late 1800's ;) ) whitch looks like this.



http://www.fotw.stm.it/images/de-impwa.gif

Excellent Flags. Good work.

Here is something that I have whipped up a while ago ;). Same flag as above but I enlarged the Red, White, and Black and the Iron Cross parts and filled in some red.

I like CivGeneral's but I'd like more of a twist... to make it more Fanatikan somehow. I don't want a 100% real world flag, just 85.3% (sorry 85.2% won't cut it ;) )

What colors do you want replaced in the flag :)?

Here is the flag in Fanatikan's Colors (Germany's Civ Colors) :)

Add some more Yellow or Blue. I'd suggest Red, but then it might look too much like a Nazi Flag.

Here is the Version 3 flag. It goes from dark blue at the top and a light blue at the bottom with an Ironcross.

Can you replace the aqua blue at the bottom with differnt blue. like a light baby blue or sky blue?

Here is the Forth Version. As requested by Cyc, I changed the color of the bottom stripe with Sky Blue color ;).

Much better for me. Thank you very much.

Looks good, CivGeneral. However, is it possible for you to smooth out the lines around the cross?

here is mine to add my two cents worth in it, it can also be seen without the fluttering in the wind effect as well if you want to see it

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/flag2.jpg

Very well done, FionnMcCumhall. I just made your flag the background on my display. Did you design that or copy it from some site. I like it.

WOW!
I Really(!) like Fionns!


Perfect IMHO!
We could put the background in red for the war-version of our flag (so it will hold a black german-cross in the middle, the blue edge cross over the whole flag and a red-red background) (to show the blood of our enemies!)

how would it look in a non-rectangle version?

could we also get a non-jpg version? flags look nicer if not smoothed to jpg (gif or better png).
i would like to also have a straight version (no bending edges) for putting on top of threads etc. maybe we could then make department-symbols out of it.

Shouldnt be a problem to make changes since i kept an editable file ([.psd]since i work in photoshop), i can also make the flag gif.

Ok guys since it didnt take me too long :), i did a new version of the fluttering flag, and made a flat version in gif form

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatikaflag.gif

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatikaflag2.gif

i think we get to something now:

fanatika peace:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatika-peace.gif

fanatika war:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatika-war.gif

(i had problems because the lines were a bit dithered, please post new gif-files made from the original)


could you also post a zipped version of your original?

another thing i would propose:
streching the cross ;-)
the middle part to reach from the top to the bottom, and the other one from left to right somehow.
i dont know how it will look then though...

we could also have the monarchy eagle somewhere in the flag as long as we are in despotism or monarchy, use a star instead of it for republic and a sickle for communism. we leave it totally out for democracy ;-)

I can make the other colors on the flag but i figure the original flag would be the peace-time flag, Right?

WAR FLAG
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatikawar.gif

and the editable

file (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatikaflag.zip)


We can make the other flags as we go. We dont want to go overboard on our flags :) maybe we can use the cross and eagle for something else like ministry badges or banners for the forum or demogame website :)

Another idea: cut out the trangles on the right:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatika-peace-special.gif

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatika-war-special.gif

btw:
i noticed i can load psd :-(
can you export to paint-shop pro? (psp)

i also draw back my idea of the streched cross... it just didnt look right imho.

is there acceptance for any of the proposals we brought up? or non-acceptance?
or is it just 2 people in here?

another question: i noticed the borders of the colored fields as well as the lines being a bit "dithered" with other colors. did you do it via a vector program or is it a pure raster-file?

I like Fionn's latest and the adjustments to it very much.

I like Fionn's original flag with the four different shades of blue. The red one looks like a Southern Confederate flag. Wait a minute, do I hear the theme music from the Dukes of Hazzard......

blue as a war flag is kind of... hmmm... strange imho... should have colors which blind you when you see them on the battlefield so all our enemies will run from us!

shaitan: which adjustment?!

The one in post 42 for the standard flag and the bottom one in post 46 for the war flag.

Very cool work, FionnMcCumhall. I like them all.

so would the best compromise be
peace:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatika-peace.gif
war:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatika-war-special.gif
?

sidenote: we could add flattering at them as liked. its just about the general flag to use
sidenote2: sorry for the bad quality, fionn will surely improove it soon. its my program which does this

fionn:
could you do the two above in your perfect quality and post them as flattering and as non-flattering version?
we would have 4 flags them. a peace, a war, and each of them flattering and non-flattering.

Maybe to solve the Confederate Feel of the War flag, make two of the Red areas Yellow or Orange? I'm not sure how it would turn out, but it might work.

Wont the confederate feel be good for war?!?

Actually, Dis, the Flag on post 42 is this one:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatikaflag.gif

It's the original and has three background colors.

Definitely the three background colors.

Maybe it's just me but the war flag looks almost nothing like the Confederate flag. Trust me. I'm in Atlanta, Georgia. It's on half of the cars down here. ;)

Thread moved to G2 forum per citizen request.

Let me know guys which way we go and ill make the necassary adjustments.

@dis Quit using Paint Shop Pro lol, Photoshop is better, trust me i learned this the hard way. And Flattering? Whats that?

Shaitan: I don't see the connection you make to the stars and bars. As long as we don't stick little stars in the cross...

Originally posted by Octavian X
Shaitan: I don't see the connection you make to the stars and bars. As long as we don't stick little stars in the cross...
That's what I said - I don't see a connection except in the most superficial manner. I think the concern over similarity with the Confederate battle flag isn't justified.

It think Dis ment Fluttering, you know the 3D look.

Shaitan, the more I look at it, the more it takes on it's own character, seperate from the Confederate flag. Maybe making the lower left quadrent a lighter shade of red than the others, Like the peace flag, might make it look better.

Originally posted by FionnMcCumhall
Let me know guys which way we go and ill make the necassary adjustments.

@dis Quit using Paint Shop Pro lol, Photoshop is better, trust me i learned this the hard way. And Flattering? Whats that?
Use these two:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatikaflag.gif

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatika-war-special.gif

What about this (I hope this works - I haven't tried to post an atachment before). The text (Vis Unita Fortior) is latin for "united strength is stronger" (I know this cause its the moto of my football club (soccor for you guys in the US and Canada).

Originally posted by Octavian X
Shaitan: I don't see the connection you make to the stars and bars. As long as we don't stick little stars in the cross...

Darn you ruined my idea ;) i was gonna add a star to the bars with each new province :D Just Kidding, I was gonna add stars but not there. Decide how you guys want the flags, war flag especially cuz i think the flag with three diffrent bg colors should be our peace-time flag

Shaitan I like your flag. What about combining that with my moto?

Originally posted by Phoenix
Shaitan I like your flag. What about combining that with my moto?
That's Fionn's flag. I just reposted it to avoid confusion over which one I was talking about. ;)

I think it's a great motto. Perhaps on a draped banner? Fionn, can you do something like that with it?

Sorry i took the wrong lag in my post... didnt notice it was 3 colors though before :-)
I second fionns as peace-one, maybe fionn could also do a hq-war-one out of my idea an his raw-file ;-)

I think we should add the motto somewhere... but it will be hard to find a place without overloading the flag... maybe a 4 word motto would be better, as it would fit in the diagonal blue cross.

And yes, i meant the 3d look ;-)

And no, i cant use anything else than PSP :-(

Personally, I'd like the motto: 'Salus populi suprema lex esto.'
It's the Missouri State motto, meaning 'The welfare of the people shall be supreme law.'

What about "The will of the people should be supreme law"?
Any1 to translate this?
Would fit for us ;-)

ok here we go

PEACE-TIME
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatikaflag.gif

WAR-TIME
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatikawar2.gif

Perfect IMHO.

Now if we get a motto it would:
if 4 words fit into the blue diagonal bars
if 6 words fit into the colored triangles.

if we find a war motto with 6 and a peacetime motto with 8 words, it would fit best for both flags ;-)

i need a latin-english translator :-P

I tried to put in a lighter Red and it didn't look right so I went ahead with the Yellow idea instead, I want to know what you think of it. (Obviously I'd request Fionn to make a "good" copy, since he seems to be very good at this).

Here's a darker version
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatika-war-yellow.png

And a brighter version
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatika-war-yellow-bright.png

EDIT: Or Fionn is just better with color matching than I am as his above post seems to suggest.

if then definitely the upper one. as the lower one looks, well, much too "neon" for an ancient empire ;-)

what about:
"the world shall prostrate before us"
as a war motto
and
"the will of the populace shall be our highest law"
as a peace motto?

any latin-translators here?

Do you guys really want to have yellow in it?

/me no way.
but falcon wants ;-)

Personally yellow would look funny, kinda like the flag is on fire or something. But ill give it a shot.

Originally posted by disorganizer
Now if we get a motto it would:
if 4 words fit into the blue diagonal bars
if 6 words fit into the colored triangles.
Ouch. No. Never words on the body of the flag. Diagonal bars, maybe. Never on the body. More typical is a sylized, draped banner.

I vote against the yellow. Shades of red look just fine and it gives a continuity to the peacetime flag.

I think I agree, No yellow.

How about a different shade of red ;). Something that would blend in nicely and not look like just one color.

Red will keep getting darker or closer to grey in the color wheel if we try diffrent variations

same thing I experience Fionn when I tried to add a 3rd color, either blended in, was too dark, or too light.

Originally posted by FionnMcCumhall
Red will keep getting darker or closer to grey in the color wheel if we try diffrent variations

True. Even with my flag I was doing was tricky to find the RGB color code for Sky Blue ;).

so whats about our motto(s)?

I say create a seperate Seal for the Mottos. Flags for the most part should be free of wording.

That's a good idea. Can someone design a sort of 'Great Seal of Fanatika?'

tell me whats to be in it and ill do it, since you guys loved my flag

well, hopefully this isn't too late here's mine, i like it because it is simple. Enjoy.

And now the war flag:

oops, forgot to attach the file:

What about this crest. This one is my cities crest (I don't think it is copyrighted though - no reason for it to be).

It looks pretty cool. I'd still like to change that motto, though,

What to? I will see if I can do it for you.

Some one should just mod this flag. id do it, but ive got a interface to build in nine days.

We need an original flag, we are not germany, we are fanaika with german civ stats, its ok to use a biy of germany but not their real flag, besides i think we had someone do something like that earlier

Originally posted by Octavian X
Perhaps that little black cross could be our flag by itself...

can anyone say, "nazi"?
the iron cross was their symbol.

Originally posted by Stuck_As_a_Mac


can anyone say, "nazi"?
the iron cross was their symbol.
No, my friend. The cross was Germany's symbol long before the nazis and is still thier symbol today. The nazi symbol was the swastika, a bastardization of a much older indo-european symbol.

Thank you Shaitan.

I like the un-muddled versions of Fionn's in post #63. Also how about a great seal that at it's center has the town graphic from the game/ancient age. As the game progresses we replace with new graphics from our mightiest cities in whatever age we're in?

Yeah, the blue one definately does it for me. It's also in post #71. I guess the want a red war flag too.

Can we put this picture in the flag?

http://www.elliskaiser.com/doughnuts/phil-discover.gif

j/k

hmm im sure we can work the doughnut in some future work :)

Originally posted by Shaitan

No, my friend. The cross was Germany's symbol long before the nazis and is still thier symbol today. The nazi symbol was the swastika, a bastardization of a much older indo-european symbol.

Exactly... want more proof? well I'll give you some...

http://www.briggsenterprises.com/bluemax/dr1a.jpg

That's Before the Nazis (WWI)

http://www.janes.com/aerospace/military/gallery/ila2002/images/typhoon2.jpg

And today... Note there's the Black cross in both. The Swastika, is different as it has an extention at a 90 degree angle coming from each point, and it doesn't have the curvature of most German Crosses. In fact before the Swastika was defiled by Hitler and the Nazis they were even put on the walls of Synogages, (I'm sure I'm spelling that wrong) because it was concidered a sign of good luck by most... now it represents the evil of the Nazis. But it is a seperate element from the German Cross.

It's also some sort of symbol for a religion in Japan, Buddaism I believe. During the CBS broadcast of the 1998 Winter Olympics in Nagano, Japan, several viewers were upset when a swastika was visible outside a temple through the window of the main sportscaster's desk.
Also, in an anime series I watch (Yu Yu Hakusho), one of the characters that was a demon in disguise had a swastika tatooed on his forehead, as a symbol of his religious devoution. Cartoon Network editied out before airing.

@stuck:
the "german cross" originally was the symbol of the "teutonic order", where it was first seed. its a normal crusador thing.
it was called "german cross" when the "holy roman empire of german nation" was built, which was the biggest power in europe after the roman empire fell. it covered most of middle europe and almost all crusadors descended from this nation before it fell apart into the countries we know now.

the nazis took this symbol into their flag to represent that they wanted to build a empire that size again spanning the whole of europe and with teutonic culture.

as the "german cross" and its alikes are used also up to today and since the ancient age, this has nothing to do with the nazis ;- (as long as we dont put the swastika in the middle of the flag).

in fact, the cross we used (not straight) is the sign of the medieval german empire and the crusadors. the straight german cross (straight unbowed lines) which was also used in wwii and to sign war-utilities is mainly derived out of the later german monarchy and the weimar republic (before wwi until wwii), but is still used today (not on flag of course).

i forgot: i still would like to have the latest proposal of the fionn-disorganizer cooperation ;-)
it is not too complicated, represents our civish traits and the german culture, and is easy to be changed to a war-flag ;-)

Which was that again dis?

It was:
ok here we go

PROPOSAL A:
PEACE-TIME
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatikaflag.gif
WAR-TIME
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatikawar2.gif

can we comply on those? or should we put up a poll for the other options?

other options (as far as i found them):
PROPOSAL B:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/newflag2.jpg
PROPOSAL C:
PEACE-TIME
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/flag1.gif
WAR-TIME
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/flag2.gif
PROPOSAL D:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/germanimpflgalt5.gif

I'm for Proposal A. Let's put it in a poll. I think we've close to exhausted the flag debate.

I agree with Danke. Put the four in a poll. Choices 1 through 4 plus an abstain. Use multi-choice option. Highest supported flag proposal wins.

Can the cutout on the warflag (option 1) be made transparent?

I'm a bit upset that nobody has made a draped flag.

Originally posted by Phoenix
I'm a bit upset that nobody has made a draped flag.

Sure we did.... just rotate them 90 degrees and you've got a Draped Flag.

Well, if no one else posts a new flag, I'll put a poll up later tonight. This is so it won't get buried under all the upcoming election polls.

good octavian. i dont like to put up polls (bad experience);-)
@all:
we can off course 3d-the flag, rotate the flag and anything else you could imagine. so no other options should be put into the poll where only the flag is rotated or something.

if you need it draped, rotate it. if you like it fluttering, make it (or let fionn do it for you). of course we could add transperancy to the cutout part, but this wont change the proposal much ;-)

@fionn: could you post a warflag with the cutout part being transparent?

Re: transparent cutout

I'm just worried about 1st impressions. People see a white triangle, they think a white triangle is there and don't even consider a cutout.

Yeah. I didnt think of that. Propabl Fionn can just repost it before octavian posts the poll. So octavian, please dont use exactly my proposal up there, but the warflag with transparent cutout (when posted)

I'll wait, then. The poll will be posted later on this evening.

I think I got it...

That looks exactly like the one above in dis's poll proposal...

Originally posted by Octavian X
That looks exactly like the one above in dis's poll proposal...
:lol:

I couldn't figure out what you meant until I noticed you are using the "Pale White" color scheme. Switch to a different scheme and you'll see the difference. The other one has a white triangle where the cutout is. The one I just posted has a transparent triangle so won't be there no matter what background color you have.

shaitan: thats why i didnt notice it before ;-P

In that case, I'll get a new poll up now.

The poll has been posted.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30474

What is the great obsession with cuting bits out of our flag.

Why doesn't somebody make them to flutter in the "web wind" like before?

because we can do this anyway. no need to restrict us. the look and feel is important. if you like it fluttering, do it then. we discuss and decide the design. what you do (hand them backwards, hang them in the wind) is your part. if you like them fluttering, fionn can do this for you anyways.
the proposals in the poll are the different designs we had.

I like the proposal D.

this any good?

Andrew - I am sorry to say but you have came in way to late to submit a flag proposal :(. Stick around and you can submit one for the Demogame III one :).

I know you meant well... but there's one in the main demogame forum. :)

[http://www.civfanatics.net/~demogame]Demogame Website[/url] - The Fanatikan Peace Flag is in the Demogame II Webpage. BTW, it doesn't have much content yet...