Role Play Challenge: Stagnation! [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

TheMeInTeam

Dec 07, 2008, 01:17 AM

Shadowed to 1875 AD ------> I CANT TAKE IT ANYMORE. IT TAKES TOO LONG BETWEEN TURNS HITTING END TURN :( :( :(. I'll just report here. To hell with hitting end turn 600 times. I think I have a case for this being shored up anyway.

Only built 1 wonder: Great wall. Barbs annoy me. But on marathon, more so. On an island all to ourselves but with galley access to the AIs? I'm just going to make it. I could go GLH but then I'd have to exert actual effort in this game and that's a big no no.

After Gwall I rexed. You see, if you go 1N as suggested, you get 2 gems. 2 gems with ORG/EXP means it doesn't take rocket science or an excel spreadsheet to think of what one might do next.

I easily outexpanded the AI and blocked off my entire island. The problem with the island nonsense is that war is harder. Well it would be on not marathon.

Here's some 1 AD dealies ----> i constantly dow'd asoka in this because gilga and cathy liked doing that, and it was good for diplo. Between gwall and just using gilgamesh/cathy for diplo I had 100% defense militarily and teched in peace:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/rpc%20mehmed/1adnorth0000.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/rpc%20mehmed/1adsouth0000.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/rpc%20mehmed/1adcathy0000.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/rpc%20mehmed/1adgilgamesh0000.jpg

Whoa I can see the AI cities. This is the magic "boat scout across the channel in a galley, unload it and press "e" trick.

I eventually got in on the action maces/cats vs archers vs asoka but only got 2 cities before he capped to gilgamesh. Now, normally that would really piss me off and I'd be SoL with super friendly hindu block getting each others back. But, no. We have cathy, after all.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/rpc%20mehmed/995dowgilga0000.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/rpc%20mehmed/995dowgilgasouth0000.jpg

This was actually a kind of hard war. I lost both cities I took from india but thanks to Gwall settled spy and focus on gilga a long time in advance I spyraped all his defenses and took him down. Eventually after taking his major cities I left him 2 cities next to cathy.

Why would I do this? Because of broken vassal mechanics. IIRC on standard sharing 8 tiles with gilga means when i dow cathy, she's a "land target" for gilgamesh, greatly reducing the effort needed to make her capitulate. Realistic, i know right.

So as always cuirassers and spies on cathy.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/rpc%20mehmed/1388dowcathyftw0000.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/rpc%20mehmed/1440afterwarwithcathy0000.jpg

I got away from TMIT play and went with some micro ---> with caste/guilds I started workshopping everything on this new landmass. FP in uruk, and the new cities churned more cuirassers damned fast. Cathy was actually willing to capitulate before I to the last 5 cities to the north (note, if not for the "land target" rule, this wouldn't have been true ----> this is why I went up the western coast). Yes, I abused the #@!$%ing hell out of vassal mechanics in this game. Really bad.

By the way. The entirety of my forces crossed the channel in 3 galleys. That's right. I waged this entire war using 3 galleys to shuttle troops. Having a 1 tile channel makes it really easy though. They're not even vulnerable, and the lost travel time is minimal -----> for war purposes after taking gilga's first city way back when I might as well have been on the same land for troop move purposes (although until state property I had to use FP and other standard tricks to keep expenses under control).

I also punted india off teh continent and capitulated him. Gilga and india are down to <3 cities so can't win anything. Cathy is not but all 3 of her major cities are in my hands and I'm not giving them back. Next up: Izzy. Izzy didn't have gunpowder and I had cavalry and physics. This makes it really, really easy. Any significance longbows have go away when reduced to 4.8 str.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/rpc%20mehmed/1604dowizzy0000.jpg

I took 2 of her island cities, madrid and other select culture nonsense potentials, and capitulation.

I was content to camp but figured what the heck and slapped Zara too after a while:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/rpc%20mehmed/1726dowzara0000.jpg

MG's did kind of ok but he was sadly outnumbered and the airships only got intercepted once (plus 2 of the cities I took were coastal and could be bombarded to 0. 14.4 str MGs aren't great vs cavalry, especially when theres over 30 cavalry and 4 of those total).

After that I just went tech crazy again. I put all cities on auto build and hit end turn a lot but as I said it was getting frustrating. I'd have to get rid of hatty's thebes/memphis/alexandria around 1950 AD or so so that she doesn't win culture. She's got the slider at 80% for it. The reason I didn't attack her as of 1875 is that I want her to try culture ----> less tech headache. Once she's close run over there and burn it and now she can't win culture OR space because she had her thumb up her tech butt that whole time.

Ok, now to refute the arguments that vassals are a bad idea for this game, I show the 1875 screenshots when I quit:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/rpc%20mehmed/1875VCs0000.jpg

Hatty needs the mid 1950s to win or so. Of course I will just get the modern culture wonders, in my hemmer cities, to keep them away from anyone else.

Here's Izzy's new "capitol" as of 1875:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/rpc%20mehmed/1875bestvassalcapitol0000.jpg

It's just under 15k. Making less than 70 CPt. In other words, this city, one of the best any of my vassals has, is on pace to be less than 1/3 of the way to legendary in the 600 or so turns before the game ends. I mean, you can try, but I don't think you'd do a very good job convincing anyone that such a position will allow a monarch AI to get THREE cities to legendary before 2050, let alone 2150. So no worries there.

Ok, so what about space?

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/rpc%20mehmed/1875tech0000.jpg

Yeah. Right. Space.

Of course, you never know. Maybe they'd be able to reach it. Except that I have enough EP that I could sabotage a part every single turn if I ran the slider. Actually, they'd need to get the techs first. As you can see, they're a long, long way off and most of them are badly crippled. They could trade except for pretty much the whole world other than the culture whore is crippled this way...and researching what I tell them to research ;).

So again, maybe if I were letting my cat step on the enter key 600 times while I slept I might maybe lose space but probably not.

Obviously vassals can't win conquest/domination/time. Hatty built the UN. I utterly control it. no diplo. The AP is mine and I have controlling votes...so no dice there either for the AI.

Oh yeah, one more thing. When the time DOES come for hatty to have her capitol and 2 other culture cities razz'd to hell, I might just have the firepower to pull it off ;):

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/rpc%20mehmed/1875mytech0000.jpg

Considering I already have every single tech in the game.

So, since just writing this up is a fraction of the time it'd take to ultimately win an easy time victory, I'm just posting this now. Hell, I'll post the save if someone feels like hitting end turn about 400 times, burning 3 cities (maybe gifting one to zara to stay under dom) with modern armor and jet fighters vs infantry, then hitting end turn 200 more times or so. Have fun.

196408

apenpaap

Dec 07, 2008, 04:23 AM

1N would indeed be a good strategy. Also, an Espionage Economy would be very nice. Perhaps you could even stop teching as soon as you have alphabet and steal the rest.

PaulusIII

Dec 07, 2008, 04:31 AM

This is going to be... interesting. I'll be fun to see you drag things out to 2050. :D

vicawoo

Dec 07, 2008, 05:11 AM

TheMeInTeam

Dec 07, 2008, 05:20 AM

You lose. One of the challenging conditions of the RPC defeated you.

Are you trying to entice me? It's not like I can't just play it after the boredom wears off and finish :rolleyes:. I didn't actually RETIRE (Actually, I saved it like I hear normal people do when they end sessions).

Granted, it's unusual for me to play a game in what would be 3 segments when I usually play them start to finish, but this was marathon and as I started playing when I woke up, I could only go so many hours without eating earlier :lol:.

Still, given the nature of most games posted on the forum, we're not comparing apples to apples here if I'm being harassed a little for not playing out a TIME victory in 1 day on marathon.

vicawoo

Dec 07, 2008, 08:28 AM

I checked, and there are very few time marathon victories in the HOF. The tedium factor is a valid obstacle. And, isn't the idea of a marathon grinding it out till the end? You can't just quit at mile 19. The spirit of the challenge has not been fulfilled.

madscientist

Dec 07, 2008, 08:38 AM

madscientist

Dec 07, 2008, 09:27 AM

Stagnation!: Part I

Well, not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing for a time based game! But so far we appear to be, well let's not spoil the fun of our plodding leader.

First of all I moved the warrior 1 spot north to the hill, to scope out whether the water is a lake or seacoast.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedA0000.jpg

OK, a lake. I see absolutely NO disadvantage to settling 1 N unless there is a hidden military resource SW of the cows.

So...

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedA0001.jpg

Fresh water and 3 grasslands instead of 3 coastal tiles.

The ottomans start off with agriculture and the wheel, so no question here (especially with TWO grassland gems!).

Techpath: Mining/BW/AH/Hunting/archery/IW/start Pottery

Istanbul built order: worker/warrior/warrior/warrior/settler/worker/Stonehenge/barracks/archer.

Where did Stonehenge come frome???

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedA0002.jpg

Yes, from our scouting warrior who also picked up 393 gold!

And soon we find after BW that

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedA0003.jpg

We are isolated WITHOUT copper!!!

However, what a dynamite island for a leader who has 5 half priced buildings!!!!!

And after AH we find

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedA0004.jpg

Good, and not too far off. We then teched off iron working mostly for the jungle chop.

Because

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedA0005.jpg

Looking to mine the riverside gems! Essentially an instant town!!

And speaking of time, well why should Mehmed waste his building a monument when

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedA0006.jpg

You can get them for free!!! Well, a very good plan starts to form in Mehmed's mind here. More on that later.

Finally after Iron Working we find

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedA0007.jpg

Several excellent spots of iron. Arround GOOD tiles (not some crappy desert area) and within view to prevent the Barbs from settling.

Speaking of which.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedA0009.jpg

The Barbs dropped a city right near our horses,. and in a poor location. well, we shalt need to march an army of swordsmen overthere eventually to raze it and resettle.

In the meantime, what to do first???

On the tech order I say Pottery/meditation/priesthood and see if we can nail down the Oracle to pop Code of Laws real fast!!!! We can tech writing once we start the Oracle. The gems should fuel our economy enough. With the Oracle and SH we should get a Prophet fairly early for the Confuscian shrine.

In the meantime the second Ottoman city is a temporary military city, and we will pop out another settler for some iron.

Sound like a plan? Oh, yes I know there are islands to the SE which could lead to other civilizations. But for now we shall be content with our Isolation.

Sian

Dec 07, 2008, 11:09 AM

oh ...the isle just south of istanbul looks like a promising Moai :P and trading town

JammerUno

Dec 07, 2008, 02:23 PM

I would argue that NW or SW of the iron on the peninsula south of Istanbul is a great moai location, SW picks up the fish, NW pick up 16 (!) coastal tiles. Moai wouldn't be too hard to finish if you work the iron. A good production city (future HE) might be north of the iron to the north of the capital. It gets rice, iron and fish and some woodland plains. Settling to the W or SW of that location eliminates overlap with Edirna, but that city will be working the riverside tiles anyway, so N of the iron seems best. Less watertiles is better for a production city.

After the oracle and CoL I'ld go sailing -> math -> calander. Silk is a high commerce tile, and two cities can claim all 5 of the silk tiles. The land around the SE silk looks great for another commerce city with plenty of grassland.

CivCorpse

Dec 07, 2008, 04:52 PM

Mocha statues 1SW of the iron
Has the fish for food, and to can workshop the little island

TheMeInTeam

Dec 07, 2008, 07:01 PM

I played this out after all. Three reasons:

1. Vicawoo harassed me into it. 19th mile indeed ^_^. Where was I in the game relative to that?! Oh well.

2. In discussing the strategy for this game, everyone and their mother's uncle told Mad "no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals ".

I proceeded to point out that vassals could be viable and potentially useful in a game like this. The response to that?

"no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals no vassals". Not having it! I said I'd prove it so I guess I'd better prove it. Or, at least TRY to :p.

3. !#@$!% I'm TMIT ------> I finish games and finish them quickly. Leaving one in limbo can cause me physical damage, unless it happens to be APG Shaka :rolleyes:. Even that one got finished though. Eventually.

1497...1498...1499...1500 end turns later:

All that said, this round isn't going to be to exciting. Rather stagnant in fact. Hatty arbitrarily left culture, prompting me to DoW her earlier than planned to ensure that the war took roughly 0 effort, micro, or thought. This meant around, say 1928. I burned her top FIVE culture cities then took peace. Modern armor vs infantry that are at 1/2 health from jet fighter/carrier beatings..........really challenging, yes? No.

I automated everything. Evertying. Even what cities build. ZZZZZZZZzz. Cathy had the best tech rate and would have challenged for space, except that before teching fiber optics or fusion she mysteriously beelined future tech and stayed there :rolleyes:.

Nobody was a threat for culture. Hatty got a space part or two herself but never got all the needed techs prior to time expiring:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/rpc%20mehmed/2050time0000.jpg

Ok. Now look. See? I HAVE NOT ONE BUT FIVE VASSALS. FIVE. Some of them quite competent (well, not really, but truthfully they never are and cathy is as close as you'll see mostly). What purpose did they serve? Eating up space without putting me over dom land, that's what. Now, let's look carefully at how close I was to losing because of vassals:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/rpc%20mehmed/2050techtrade0000.jpg

Pretty easy to block space. Especially since I had well over 300,000 espionage on cathy, just in case I needed to sabotage an entire damn ship. Never needed to, stealing techs from me was pretty hard for her.

VCs:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/rpc%20mehmed/2050victoryscreen0000.jpg

Hmmmm. After burning hatty's top 5 cities, guess what? Even now my vassals aren't on the radar. Let's see why:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/rpc%20mehmed/cathyculturecity0000.jpg

Cathy's best city. I sure feel threatened by culture. You saw izzy's in the last segment. Well, I used the UN to try to pass FR a lot, which izzy, hatty, and zara would defy for a long time. Izzy got kicked down to pop 1 for her entire empire for a long time. She's even further back than cathy.

Of course, Zara lost his cities very late and the other 2 don't even have 3 cities...so, no.

Hatty's #3 city:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/rpc%20mehmed/hattyculturecity0000.jpg

Useless. Over 1000 turns to go to legendary.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/rpc%20mehmed/infoscreen0000.jpg

Long game.

BY FAR, THE MOST RETARDED POINT IN THIS GAME WAS GLOBAL WARMING. Global warming is pretend fairy magic streaming from a body part of Al Gore's not worth mentioning on the civ forums. It's BS of the worst kind, and it has nothing to do with bulbing in this case. I'd have had well over 10000 BPT and a couple more future techs if not for GW (though I didn't try to optimize research until about 70 turns left).

About 1/4 of my entire land changed into desert. Ok, now lets see the conditions under which this !@#%#@%ing nonsense occurs:

1. Zero unhealth. That's right. Not an unhealthy city in the entire e!@#$ world. Anywhere. At all. Not in my empire, not in anyone elses.

2. Massive recycling centers and future tech > 50, I wonder if maybe pollution's a little less than in real life? Nono, guess not.

3. GLOBAL WARMING DOESNT TURN THINGS INTO DESERT AND ONLY DESERT. AT LEAST NOT REALISTIC GLOBAL WARMING.

Basically, there's no late-game prevention of a mechanic that's essentially broken in cause and result. I had one of the healthiest planets ever, and yet post 2000 GW was striking on a monthly (!) basis, and more than once it struck in 3 consecutive turns...and that's just within my territory. This is definitely a flawed mechanic and frankly I'm almost as appalled with fireaxis for leaving it in like this as I am about them choosing to lie to players using the game interface, which it does.

Anyway, there's a time win. Without wiping a single civ out. With 5 vassals. So yes, it can be done and they make it easier, not harder.

UWHabs

Dec 07, 2008, 07:31 PM

TheMeInTeam

Dec 07, 2008, 07:38 PM

A few observations that probably aren't really spoiler worthy, but just in case...

Damn, that's close to the domination limit, though. I guess as long as you're careful, at that point, stealing a few tiles here or there could put you over the edge.

Also, about GW, maybe the fact that there were probably no forests left on the planet at the end causes it. There should be some sort of improvement like the National Park, but for every city, to give forests like +1 food and +3 trade or something, to encourage people to keep them. Even something as drastic as not giving any bonus for chopping a forest that's not in the 9 tiles surrounding your city.

Heck, or just have a "plant forest" once you hit ecology. A "planted forest" maybe can't be chopped (or can't be chopped for production), but would at least prevent global warming.

Or, they could just do away with this shameful attempt at it entirely, until they can balance it or make the effects realistic.

On dominations threshold -----> I actually was over 63% at one point. I checked it very frequently after the izzy/zara conquests for a while. I wound up avoiding domination by gifting zara one of his cities back. I could have easily done the same with izzy or cathy (or even asoka!) but didn't need to. Another nice thing about vassals...

Stuck in Pi

Dec 07, 2008, 07:50 PM

I could not do that. I can't do it. I'd love to shadow, but I just couldn't do it. Not 1500 turns of enter. No. I can't...

TheMeInTeam

Dec 07, 2008, 07:51 PM

I could not do that. I can't do it. I'd love to shadow, but I just couldn't do it. Not 1500 turns of enter. No. I can't...

OVER FIVE HOURS :( (5:19). The last 700 turns or so really burned my soul.

I wish you luck, mad. The sheer amount of input required for this is a special kind of challenge.

vicawoo

Dec 07, 2008, 08:03 PM

See don't you feel a sense of accomplishment for having completed the task? And you encountered several marathon/time factors, such as global warming, which you wouldn't have otherwise.

TheMeInTeam

Dec 07, 2008, 08:09 PM

Indeed it is so. Being a warmonger I'd seldom seen just how bad it can get. Now I understand all the better...

Joshua368

Dec 07, 2008, 08:11 PM

Heh, everyone was saying what a "meh" start is was and then you got two grassland gems. :p

Jabah

Dec 08, 2008, 04:53 AM

With this 'isolated' start with several island within reach, you should try to build the Gr Lighthouse....

DMOC

Dec 08, 2008, 03:16 PM

OVER FIVE HOURS :( (5:19). The last 700 turns or so really burned my soul.

I wish you luck, mad. The sheer amount of input required for this is a special kind of challenge.

I usually hit the 5 hour mark by 1-500 AD....wow.... and I play Epic.

BakingTheArt

Dec 08, 2008, 05:48 PM

TMIT, you play games to 2050 on emperor on Marathon are shorter than the the ames I play to 1500-ish on Prince. Bah.

semirami

Dec 08, 2008, 06:09 PM

@ BtA

This is Monarch and TMIT is AFAIK immortal player.

TheMeInTeam

Dec 08, 2008, 06:21 PM

@ BtA

This is Monarch and TMIT is AFAIK immortal player.

Play speed only varies slightly with difficulty (maybe 20 mins quicker below my level). In fact, I usually don't notice much difference between quick and epic, but marathon is a different animal.

I only recently started playing immortal with some consistency ----> I'm not 50% wins on immortal yet, unless you're willing to count the ridiculously cheesy HoF submissions, but I'm not willing to do that.

I'm sure mad will show us a thing or two also here! He's a lot more experienced with marathon than I am (as I implied earlier, barring early or constant warfare marathon tries my patience).

madscientist

Dec 08, 2008, 06:55 PM

Stagnation!: Part II

As we grind out our game, Mehmed certainly looks to be setting a very strong homebase VERY fast!!!! Expansive and Organized, what a combo. Well, Organized and anything is amazing if you ask me ;)

First the almighty techpath: fishing/meditation/Priesthood/writing/sailing/Aesthetics/Monarchy/Masonry/Polytheism/Literature and saved there. What, no currecy??? Well who needs it! Let's see why

We start by settling city #3 to claim the best of the iron sources.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedB0000.jpg

Also hence why I went fihing first this segment.

And we meet our first leader.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedB0001.jpg

I don't know why Gilgamesh has his nose covered like that, perhaps he smeels the reek of some stagnant water or something!

What we did find is that he's pretty close, close enough to having some culture move onto the Ottoman homebase.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedB0002.jpg

Well, he seams to be behind in tech as he was teching sailing pretty late in the segment.

And the next part of Mehmed's grand plan

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedB0003.jpg

Which we used to

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedB0004.jpg

Now, Gilgamesh is the Hindu founder so I avoided adopting Confuscianism as the state religion as I really want to delay wars until I at least get Janissaries (Now that Sulieman game was just plain old fun!).

Soon we popped the Great Prophet (Stonehenge and Oracle in one city are a great way to get an early shrined religion).

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedB0005.jpg

You bet, we shrined Confuscianism.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedB0006.jpg

We then started to set up a few more cities

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedB0007.jpg

Yes, once we get our fast lighthouse and granery setup we shall build the Moari Statues here!

The next city was the Barbarian city

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedB0008.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedB0009.jpg

Since it was established I kept the city and decided to use another city in the jungle to capture the horses.

Finally, one of our new cities get's Hinduism spread to it

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedB0010.jpg

And we adopt Hinduism.

After Monarchy we change civics

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedB0011.jpg

With Gilgamesh's favored civic HR I expect a loyal friend there right up to the time where we stab in the back to prevent him from winning.

Our last city this segment

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedB0012.jpg

Popping the borders FAST with an artist specialist and the free monument, we immediately get horses for production. While in the middle of a jungle I expect teh city to be very good. In fact, all of Mehmed's city sites are A-1, too bad Fred and Mehmed's starts were not reversed.

And just before the save we meet the second AI

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedB0013.jpg

Watch your backs folks! Well she is Hindu and favorite civic is HR also!

So at the save

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedB0014.jpg

I say three more cities here. One to the SW to claim the wine and two along the NE coast!

Diplomatically

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedB0015.jpg

The Hindu love fest has begun!

And demographics

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedB0016.jpg

OK, so things are crusing right along. Stagnation means not doing much, so my plan is to sit and relax right up until someone appears to be taking a lead. Cranking out a massive homebase sounds fine by me!

Tasks

1) More workers. Seriously, I know my weakpoint but Mehmed is expansive.

2) Settle 3-4 more cities (perhaps the west coast also.

3) Some more troops I think. I trust Cathy as far as I can throw her.

4) Spread the good faith of confuscianism for some good hard cash! Hinduism is fine to keep the neighbors happy, but Confuscianism makes the Ottoman world go round!

5) I guess I need send a few boats arround to find exactly what my neighbors are up to.

6) Great Library and NAtional epic in the capital. Farm those grasslands.

7) The riverside cities get cottaged like crazy right now.

Enough for now, Mehmed's off to take a nap.

TheMeInTeam

Dec 08, 2008, 07:01 PM

What's to fear from cathy if she likes you and there's nobody to bribe her?

CivCorpse

Dec 08, 2008, 11:44 PM

[QUOTE=madscientist;7528777]

We then started to set up a few more cities

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedB0007.jpg

Yes, once we get our fast lighthouse and granery setup we shall build the Moari Statues here!

[QUOTE]

This pleases US. We approve

Shadowcrow

Dec 09, 2008, 12:16 AM

Nuke are probably going to be fairly key. Otherwise it maybe a bit hard to stall and stop the AI from winning other victories without triggering Conquest or Dom victories.

Killroyan

Dec 09, 2008, 01:10 AM

I would propably settle the SE part of the island quickly or Gilgamesh might start settling there too. The AI have an annoying tendency to settle your land before they settle their own land. But the land looks solid. It will be a long game but at least with a good start.

Bed

Dec 09, 2008, 01:36 AM

omg build the great lighthouse asap! and like 10 workers... before even thinking of settling new cities

TheMeInTeam

Dec 09, 2008, 01:43 AM

I'd prioritize blocking the AIs before I'd prioritize a wonder, personally. If he really wanted GLH, he should not have built other wonders or waited this long (though I agree it would be spectacular with the intercontinental foreign trade). In many emperor games it's long gone by now. It certainly isn't safe to start on it in 870 bc on monarch/marathon. You MIGHT win it, but you might not too. The city, if you get it in time, is a sure thing, and a very useful sure thing too.

Speaking of blocking, why not wall off gilgamesh before settling the northern tip of the island? I know the AI is bad about shipping settlers until it fills its land, but 1) you can't see his land (I suggest you remedy that) and 2) you're tempting fate.

madscientist

Dec 09, 2008, 08:44 AM

@ CivCorpse: I am glad you approve :D

@ Shadowcrow: You bet, one of those few games where I am looking for uranium as a higher priority than oil. One of my goals is to see how much habitable lands remains in the world come 2050 AD!

@Killroyan: I believe I have blocked the Summerian as much as I can. He already has some cutlure on our coastal tiels and there are no open areas except further north near the iron which I don't think he will settle.

@Bed: The GLH already was built. I was more concerned in getting the shrined religion (thus 2 GPP wonders, and free CoL) than massive trade routes. That shrine will never go obsolete while the GLH has a limited shelf life here. You are well correct with the workers
though, lot's of jungles to chop.

@ MIT: Perhaps my screenshots are poor. The horse/jungle city effectively blocked Gilgamesh as much as I can for now. NExt are two cities along the NE coast and the SW wineshop.

The GLH certainly has alot of appeal here, but looking for some more RPC action here. Nothing stirs up a hornets nest (or a hair-trigger red-headed Russian lass) than swapping out to a heathen religion!!! :D

CreeDakota

Dec 09, 2008, 09:43 AM

What is the tech path?

Founding more religious and/or Sistine may be good to keep out of AI hands.

Or a Rush to Gunpowder and a big smackdown?

JammerUno

Dec 09, 2008, 10:20 AM

Getting samsun to the 2nd borderpop to ensure ownership of the silk tiles would seem to be a good idea. Not only are they great commerce tiles, if gilgamesh doens't have any on his continent, you can trade with them, adding even more value to those tiles.

TheMeInTeam

Dec 09, 2008, 02:16 PM

A side note with some relevance here for newer players:

Culture borders don't extend past two tiles off the current land mass the city is on. In other words, Gilgamesh's culture can't extend further onto mad's land, and placing a city in that corner tile is fine because it will never flip no matter what, even if gilga's city were to go legendary.

JammerUno

Dec 09, 2008, 03:27 PM

Even so he can swamp yonder silk tile with his culture, taking away a high commerce tile and possibly a trade for another resource. Good to know though, the 2 tile rule.

madscientist

Dec 09, 2008, 03:50 PM

Even so he can swamp yonder silk tile with his culture, taking away a high commerce tile and possibly a trade for another resource. Good to know though, the 2 tile rule.

Bah! If he takes my silk via culture I'll kill him! :devil:

TheMeInTeam

Dec 09, 2008, 04:02 PM

Bah! If he takes my silk via culture I'll kill him! :devil:

Even if he looks at you funny...most likely.

Especially if he's about to win culture, I'd imagine.

Terrance888

Dec 09, 2008, 04:27 PM

Woohooo. You are the best!

madscientist

Dec 09, 2008, 08:06 PM

Stagnation!: Part III

well, well, well. An aptly named RPC here. Let's take a look at what we have here.

Techpath was pretty amazing: Math/Currency/Music (yeah for the Free GA)/metal casting/machinery/calendar/Civil Service/Paper/Education/Philosophy

Wow, that's ALOT.

we settled another city on the east coast

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedC0000.jpg

And with out free Great Artist from Music, we started a Golden Age which Sped up the next GP

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedC0002.jpg

Which we settled in the Confuscian holy city (added gold and faster money buildings)

And also sped up

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedC0003.jpg

In the capital, which we folloed with the National Epic. Next GP was a Great Scientist which we used for an academy in the capital.

We finally got arround to building anotehr Galley to explore our friends coasta and met

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedC0004.jpg

Which made me feel better since Gilgamesh "Had Enough on His Hands" we I asked him to DOW on Cathy. Appently Asoka and Gilgamesh are involved in a major war the entire segment. We on and off went to war against Asoka for diplo points. But more on warfare later.

Finally, Cathy and Gilgamesh teched off alphabet opening up some tech trades.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedC0007.jpg

I delayed this as I preferred NOT to annoy CAthy by refusing her demands, which of course I did when she came looking for handouts.

We then launched a series of backfilling trades

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedC0008.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedC0009.jpg

Resulting in

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedC0010.jpg

Tech superiority, and our advantage of machinery has not registered yet!

We fianally set up our wine city

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedC0011.jpg

Just in time. Gilgamesh was trying to slip a galley towards that area and we had to shut off open borders for a few turns until the settler got finihsed.

we then made a trade I just could not refuse!!!!!

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedC0012.jpg

OK, so I am a jerk who likes to stir up trouble!!!!! They made peace after a while though, so I guess it was simply a tech gift to Cathy!!! Worth a try.

We dropped our last 2 cities

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedC0014.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedC0015.jpg

Scraping teh bottom of the barrell but hey we were at 80-90% science with a gold profit!!!!

Finally we popped the next Great Person which was a profit, and we saved him for a few turns because we were teching Philosphy and...

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedC0016.jpg

HOLY SMOKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Manually researching teh last tech for the liberalism race and we actually found the religion!!!!!!!!!! Well we used the prophet to shrine the religion for ANOTHER strong gold city.

we saved here to think about whether we want to research it now or wait and try to get something a little better for free, like Fission! Seriously, this techpace is just nuts.

So the map of the world as we know it.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedC0017.jpg

Cities

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedC0018.jpg

And Demographics!

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedC0019.jpg

Tops in GNP and prodcution and #3 three in soldiers (after Gilgamesh and Cathy).

Well, I guess let's see how to play up this RPC!!! I say Mehmed simply stagnates where he is and tries for time. we start some warfare once someone is a threat to actually win the game, but at this point even these morons in this hemisphere are going to be launching a spaceship after 2050.

As far as tech, I think perhaps optics to see what idiots lie on the other shore. Probably Sitting Bull and Tokugawa who are refusing to open borders with each other!

Oh, one more thing. I think no more tech trades for now. Let the AIs struggle a bit, I can backfill guilds and engineering myself without trading education, I like having universities to myself!

UWHabs

Dec 09, 2008, 08:50 PM

Given your UU, I'd want to put it to use. I see in the last pic you're researching gunpowder. My say would be that it might be time to get a foothold on that other island. Taking out Asoka might be easy, although you probably want to keep him around for the others to beat up on. Maybe grab a couple of Gilgamesh's cities?

Or go for something crazy: Gunpowder->optics->Liberalism (Astronomy), and go with a musket invasion of some cities across the ocean.

Or, with stagnation, just sit back and watch everyone kill each other. Maybe even go to the other continents with some missionaries and try to convert someone over there, since if your side has Budhism, Hinduism, confucianism, and taoism, that basically means that the other continent is all Jewish. Although, if I missed it, and Asoka or someone got Judaism on your side, the the other continent is all religion-less. If that's the case, bring one confucian and one taoist missionary on caravels going either way, and spread one religion to the 2 big players on the other side of the world. Religious wars for the win!

Kev

Dec 10, 2008, 12:03 AM

What's the setup with the AP? Could be a Christian half of the world somewhere and I'd rather have control of the AP if I could. Be a nice tool to stir up trouble - not to mention the extra stuff from the buildings.

Killroyan

Dec 10, 2008, 03:06 AM

Anybody noticing how Konya actually lies in Italy (landshape :)) Even the little island of Corsica is up there. Too bad you aren't playing the romans. They would feel right at home ;)

So far the game is in the bag but I wonder how you are going to play this out. Is it all going to be about diplomacy and getting wars going? Or will there be some conquering also?

bestje

Dec 10, 2008, 11:13 AM

with the techpace going at the rate it is I'd start taking out a few of the AIs as soon as you can get jannissaries. always better to fight at a massive advantage than on equal terms!

madscientist

Dec 10, 2008, 08:33 PM

Stagnation!: Part IV

As before a very slow and slow segment with noone really chalenging the mighty Ottomans although both our friends have higher scores (remember I can lose a time win if I have a lower score!). So to entertain myself I have decided to see how long I can go without liberalism while still being the first to it. So far we d not have it, but amazingly someone has FINALLY teched education at the save!!! And guess who...

First the techpath: gunpowder/compass/optics/guilds/banking/engineering/economics/printing press/astronomy/chemistry/replaceable parts/rifling and saved.

We got 1 Prophet which we saved for a future golden age and 2 great scientists which we used for academies.

We also made NO trades with our friends, stiffling their research.

Things started to shake up with

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedD0000.jpg

Ohhhhhh!!!!!!!!! we voted for Cathy just for diplo-points and because she really wanted the AP seat! She was so happy that she came by to ask for this

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedD0001.jpg

What the hell, I gave it to her!

We then started meeting those other leaders

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedD0002.jpg

Mao appears to be a colony of

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedD0003.jpg

We are a different religion so he's not too happy.

To address this we made this trade

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedD0004.jpg

And revolted to theocracy for diplo-points with Zara.

we also got a map showing

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedD0005.jpg

Certainly easily conquerable lands! In fatc I think I can let our allies alone to go trash some Ethiopian and Egyptian lands. Oh yes, one of the egyptians are out there.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedD0006.jpg

See!!!

OK, we met most of the Ais and checked techs

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedD0007.jpg

As we backfill techs via researching them we find that we have a big tech lead.

we then meet another Zealot leader

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedD0008.jpg

Gotta watch that lady, I have been hit by a massive stack of outdated Spanish troops before.

We made our last trade of the segment, figuring spreading music arround the world makes things a little less dull.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedD0009.jpg

we used the free GM for a trade mission to Gilgamesh for 5100 gold which allowed us to run the science slider @ 100% for the entire segment.

We meet another colony.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedD0011.jpg

Now, The Russian Lady does have nationhood and military tradition over us so we opt for a DP ASAP

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedD0013.jpg

Which lasted about 3 turns as Cathy declared war on Hatty of which we joined.

Meanwhile we built a slew of privateers to get us to an experienced enough unit to get the Heroic Epic but no GG yet.

We saved here, wanting to sit back and decide which tech to go after next.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedD0015.jpg

The tech situation

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedD0016.jpg

Well, well, well. asoka actually got Education! He is a vassal of Gilgamesh and has maybe 1-2 cities.

So I say we tech off steel for some drydocks and cannons, take liberalism and steam power for free. Then proceed to SM/RR/Combustion for kingship of the seas! If we lack oil, I say it's time to rev up some galeons and take what we need.

Our cities are doing very well

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedD0017.jpg

I think we definitely could use some FS civic for our cottage cities. Production is a littel week, and I will get to work on teh Heroic epic soon.

I figure if all goes well, we should be building a nice force of destroyers and tanks to go kill some Egyptian and Ethiopian muskets.

well, what do you all thing. YAWNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!! Yeah that's Stagnation for you!

DMOC

Dec 10, 2008, 09:08 PM

Agree, take Steam Power. Nice game so far.

v8_mark

Dec 10, 2008, 09:26 PM

Asoka's tech rate is horrible. You've got time to trade Nationalism, manually tech Constitution, Corporation and Steam Power, and take Assembly Line from Liberalism.

Go on, you know you want to ;)

Phinaeus

Dec 10, 2008, 10:47 PM

I don't like the fact that your power ratings are so low even with friendly neighbors. You're gonna need a military sooner or later, too obtain the high score.

TheMeInTeam

Dec 10, 2008, 11:03 PM

He probably wants to dominate the AI with a super tech lead. The idiot tech "full monty" warmonger is more of my realm ;).

If horse archers could swim I'd have attacked the entire neighboring continent with them.

They don't swim though.

If you can get infantry mad, do it. On marathon in a game like this, they're top notch untouchable. Their only counter is machine guns, and those are only OK if they get hit by airships (and do nothing vs arty). Essentially, infantry vs pre-MG troops is a military break point - the strongest in the entire game (just behind rifles, as IMO grenadiers are easier to come by as a counter than MG, and can...actually attack). A stack of infantry is unassailable for a long, long time.

IMO you should get rid of an annoyance or two. After all, the theme of the RPC is stagnation ----> take a lot of land, have notions of winning a non-time victory.......then stagnate :p.

Gliese 581

Dec 10, 2008, 11:09 PM

Fresh water and 3 grasslands instead of 3 coastal tiles.

Not to mention another gems tile.

cripp7

Dec 11, 2008, 08:34 AM

How can Osaka have such a tech lead with only a few cities?

Sian

Dec 11, 2008, 08:54 AM

Asoka ... Osaka is a city in Japan :p

well ... i got a few suggestions ... Asoka turned for research (just as Mansa, HC and WK) ... Shirned Buddism holy city ... loads of commence rich tiles

civvver

Dec 11, 2008, 09:54 AM

TheMeInTeam

Dec 11, 2008, 11:07 AM

You can mod GW out in the global defines. Set the odds to 0 or whatever.

What I hate about it most is its EFFECT. GW doesn't turn RANDOM tiles in the world into DESERT. That's utter nonsense. Global precipitation would likely not fall at all...global warming =/= less water. If anything there would be more water if you're melting caps.

The way it works in the game really is more like a magic spell than anything simulating reality. Somebody casts "DESERT CLOUD" on your tile. Spell succeeds! Tile is now desert! 10 MP cost. Limit 3 uses/turn.

Al Gore probably drools though.

Ormur

Dec 11, 2008, 02:19 PM

I also find it very funny that you can chop the whole amazon away in game and nothing happens but a few nukes and unhealthiness turn the world into a desert. If you can't implement it realistically, skip it.

JammerUno

Dec 11, 2008, 03:49 PM

It should turn riverside tundra into floodplains.

Kesshi

Dec 12, 2008, 02:57 AM

What I hate about it most is its EFFECT. GW doesn't turn RANDOM tiles in the world into DESERT. That's utter nonsense. Global precipitation would likely not fall at all...global warming =/= less water. If anything there would be more water if you're melting caps.

The way it works in the game really is more like a magic spell than anything simulating reality. Somebody casts "DESERT CLOUD" on your tile. Spell succeeds! Tile is now desert! 10 MP cost. Limit 3 uses/turn.

Al Gore probably drools though.

TheMeInTeam,

Did you ever play Civ1?* It had a global warming mechanic that I kinda liked. Cities produced pollution if they had too much production. However your "Workers" could remove the polution, much like in Civ4 they can Scrub Fallout. Nukes also caused pollution after they were launched. Usually 3 to 5 of the 8 squares around where the nuke hit would be polluted.

*or was it Civ2 or both of them?

If there was too much pollution in the world, the coastal lands would start to flood over. I forget the exact effects of what would happen, but I remember them starting off coastally, and it making those tiles fairly useless.

There was also a pollution meter on the right hand side of the screen. I think it was supposed to display the ozone layer depleting or something. Whatever it was, it changed colours depending on how much pollution was in the world so it could give you an early indication of global warming.

I remember one game where I got really mad and launched off a bunch of nukes in tons of places. About 3 turns later the entire world was flooded with what looked like marshlands everywhere. heh

Ai Shizuka

Dec 12, 2008, 04:25 AM

I think it was Civ 2, when global warming actually made some sense. Like grassland turning into jungle or plains becoming deserts. And coastal tiles flooded by sea.
All related to the number of polluted tiles in the world.

And I'm pretty sure there was at least 2 warnings when global warming was about to strike.

madscientist

Dec 12, 2008, 07:17 AM

Stagnation!: Part V

You want battle! You want Blodd! You want backstabbing! You want carnage!!!

Well, go find another posted game. This is STAGNATION and another uneventful segment although I think it may be time to start things going in the next segment.

First of all, forgive me if I forget something. I was posting this segment last night when the electricity went out, so I am trying to get it off from work by memory! So I will not be attaching the game until later tonight.

Techpath: Steam Power/liberalism/nationalism/constitution/corporation/assembly line

Looking at the techs

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedE0000.jpg

And you see why we went for liberalism although I think I could have gotten Assembly Line off of it, and certainly would have tried (Yes I DID want to!). However, looks to me that Asoka traded away education to anyone he could.

We popped a Great Scientist next

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedE0001.jpg

Which we used for a Golden Age (with our saved Great Prophet).

Very soon we finish liberalism

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedE0002.jpg

Opted for Steel!

And as we have steel and rifles right now, the rest of the world

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedE0003.jpg

Hmmm.......

After liberalism we adjusted civics during the Golden Age

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedE0004.jpg

I stayed in theology because I like that extra +2 XP.

And finally, after rampaging out privateers arround the world, we pop our first GG

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedE0005.jpg

Which we settled in the Heroic Epic City.

I should mention that after Steam Power

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedE0006.jpg

Now that is not good enough, we have no coal yet that upstart Ethiopian has two, and he has pretty week lands. More on that later.

We next got a Great Merchant

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedE0007.jpg

Which we used for a 5100 gold trade mission. Note all those troops in Gilgamesh's capital. More on that also later.

Now there have been several colonies that have popped up, but when I see this

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedE0008.jpg

I simply want to scream!

Then soon, this peaceful world end abruptly

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedE0009.jpg

Apparently that very old trade to get Cathy to declare War on Gilgamesh finally bared some fruit after all! I was concerned about Cathy as she Vassaled Hatty (and Asoka I think) and I was thinking that she's getting a little too big. Gilgamesh certainly put the smackdown, taking some key Russian cities AND drastically reducing her power numbers.

Right after we got this

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedE0010.jpg

Now I saw the lone Galleon and figured she must be dropping spies or missionaries. Surely she's not attacking with one ship. Sure enough, she suicided 3 knights against a coastal city, I sunk her Galeon, and she gave me 80 gold for peace 10 turns later.

In the meanwhile, as we approach Assembly Line I have been building CR II maces from the HE city, And once we AL and the 5100 gold we simply upgraded them to infantry.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedE0011.jpg

I saved here mostly because

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedE0012.jpg

Very nice fleet we have to prepare to attack, but note that lone Ethiopian caravel. well, it's not alone and there are numerous Galleons there. As Zara "Has Enough on his hands" AND the fatc that the stack is in our waters right now, he is sending those troops off to attack maybe Gilgamesh. And here I am, sitting right there with a host of Frigates at my beckoning, with a strong invasion force just waiting for someone to invade!!!!

A view of the tech situation

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedE0013.jpg

We are teching off Scientific Method right now so I can see if I need to steal, I mena "Borrow" oil from someone. Very nice that we have infantry while NOONE even has replaceable parts for rifling!!!! Nor Chemistry for frigates. Hording techs and resisting those tech trades can sometimes really pay off!!!

So two main questions

1) Do I ambush the ethiopian fleet right now, heal my frigates and go and destroy him for his coal. Or do I let him simply attack who he planned to expelling his forces there, then send our invasion force to destroy him. Either way, Mehmed wants some coal!

2) Techpath: OK, some preferences on how we terrorize the world!!! At this point I am seriously considering teching to combustion and fascism, swapping to Police State and spend to rest of the game simply destroying all of the AIs coastal cities until we win a time victory and/or get nukes. Or is that simply MADNESS!!!!!!!!!!!

nbcman

Dec 12, 2008, 08:50 AM

@ madscientist

I would keep a frigate/caravel trailing the Ethiopian fleet and hope that the Ethiopians attack Gilgamesh. Then attack the Ethiopians to take the coal and gain mutual military struggle diplo benefits with Gilly.

I would build Marines too so you can hit and run coastal cities.

UWHabs

Dec 12, 2008, 09:00 AM

The way I see it, the rest of the world is teching decently, so everyone should finish up the tech tree eventually. Which means, at the end of the game, everyone will be at relative tech parity. So since you have an edge now, I'd definitely consider invading someone.

At this point, I think you can afford to capture a few people and be under the domination threshold. So it's definitely time to invade. I'd say if Zara is going after Gilgamesh, you let them fight for 5 or 10 turns, and then turn against one of them. So either you go invade Zara's homeland while his troops are away, or you join with him and take out Gilgamesh.

But the key is that while you have a significant edge (infantry against non-rifles, you hardly even need to take out city defenses first), strike. So take out people now with infantry, then when they get rifles, strike again once you get tanks. 2 opponents gone should give you enough of a score edge to ride it out to the end, with your strategic strikes if people are approaching a victory condition.

huerfanista

Dec 12, 2008, 09:08 AM

I'd return the galleons to port so they can load up your invasion forces. Follow Zara's fleet with your frigates, and after they unload on their target you can declare and wipe out all of his galleons, stranding his army overseas and pretty much eliminating his ability to either support his initial attack or retaliate against you (plus gaining easy XP for your frigates). :devil:

Der Graf

Dec 12, 2008, 09:12 AM

So two main questions

1) Do I ambush the ethiopian fleet right now, heal my frigates and go and destroy him for his coal. Or do I let him simply attack who he planned to expelling his forces there, then send our invasion force to destroy him. Either way, Mehmed wants some coal!

2) Techpath: OK, some preferences on how we terrorize the world!!! At this point I am seriously considering teching to combustion and fascism, swapping to Police State and spend to rest of the game simply destroying all of the AIs coastal cities until we win a time victory and/or get nukes. Or is that simply MADNESS!!!!!!!!!!!

Backstab Zara
It's not madness, it's just consistent :D

Joshua368

Dec 12, 2008, 09:59 AM

By the way, you should probably trade some non-monopoly techs to Isabella for Military Tradition, maybe picking up Divine Right too (in case you capture Versailles or Spiral Minaret)

CreeDakota

Dec 12, 2008, 10:37 AM

Track his fleet, let him declare, backstab, raze all his cities except capital and coal.

Pick a new target, raze a bunch of cities.

Pick a new target, raze a bunch of cities.

Pick a new target, raze a bunch of cities.

Keep teching military, keep attacking new targets, Keep them all in the dark ages for as long as you can.

Let ridiculous MUAHAHAHAHAA laughter fill the boards!

Diamondeye

Dec 12, 2008, 10:47 AM

Why wait? Why not simply batter the Ethiopian fleet into submission now and go on a rampage invading the entire continent? I mean, the guy's got Coal. And his Oromos might be dangerous, but wait till they're upgraded, they'll be a PITA. Wipe the floor with Zara Yaqob, asap!

TheMeInTeam

Dec 12, 2008, 10:48 AM

carl corey

Dec 12, 2008, 10:53 AM

TheMeInTeam

Dec 12, 2008, 10:55 AM

A really funny way to do this would be to capture all coastal cities from a few AIs and make sure they can't get a settler on a boat anymore, then simply raze every city of the other AIs and let the land go to the barbs. :lol:

Hahahahahaha. That's pretty cool. If I wasn't hell bent on proving a point (and if I'd heard of it earlier) I'd have done it.

carl corey

Dec 12, 2008, 11:06 AM

You proved your point quite nicely, by the way. :) I just thought of it or I would have posted it earlier. I remembered how I used to treat water maps in Age of Empires: raze every dock and every ship and simply take down the AIs one by one. What's the use of having 200 knights if you can't get them to me? :lol:

UWHabs

Dec 12, 2008, 11:56 AM

IMO he should keep some cities, just being sure not to trip domination. He's nowhere near that right now though.

Domination will still be far off. I mean, he's not even first in score yet!

madscientist

Dec 12, 2008, 08:38 PM

Stagnation!: PArt VI

Well our plan is rolling right along! An excellent segment, one where I really did not want to stop but it's getting late, and I do want some opinions (I know what you all will say, but it's polite to ask!)

We took the suggestion to trade non-monolopy techs for Military Tradition from Isabella.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedF0000.jpg

And the techpath: SM/RR/Democracy/Combustion/Physics/start electricity.

So after teching SM

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedF0001.jpg

OIL, what a beuatiful thing!

So what did we do regarding that Ethiopian fleet? We followed it with Frigates while it moved along to Summaria and

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedF0002.jpg

Yep, Zara went after Gilgamesh!. At this point We let Zara unload his troops

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedF0003.jpg

Then dialed his number up

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedF0004.jpg

And to really finish one AI or another (as I see Russia and Summeria our only rivals).

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedF0005.jpg

As of the save Gilgamesh is still slowly proceeding to destroy Catherine's empire!

And at this point, I have diplomacy as I like

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedF0006.jpg

Not too concerned about the AI teching into space right now!!!

We then proceeded to bring our troops to Zara's home continent, and proceeded to exterminate them

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedF0007.jpg

Now, I am big fan of the Ethiopian UU, but to tell the truth they aint got much punch against Infantry!

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedF0009.jpg

Which came pretty well stocked!

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedF0010.jpg

And proceeded to simply take every Ethiopian city within range.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedF0011.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedF0012.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedF0013.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedF0014.jpg

OK, OK, OK. You all get the general idea, and so did Zara

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedF0016.jpg

He has 1 city left which I allowed him to keep as it's on the other side of the world and he has a few vassals. In fatc, Zara declared war on Gilgamesh later on again!.

So we simply built military and infrastructure. Gilgamesh seams to be kicking up the science rate and needs a little "adjustment".

SO after elctricity I say Industrialism and see how Glig's rifles stand against tanks. Hell, the hardest this was getting the Ethiopian capital to reach 300 culture to nab the coal resoruce!

And pretty soon the entire world erupts into war!

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedF0017.jpg

Looking at the techs

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedF0018.jpg

we are behind in 2 deadend techs!

So we have a few destroyers. I say I take our existing navy with a few token destroyers fo invincibility and start razing every damn Summerian coastal city. Non-stop war, and after Industrialism I say I get Fascism for Police State and simply keep a continual naval blockade of the world, while leveling all cities for the assorted vassals so as to allow the Barbs to take over!!!

Call it the Mehmedian death fleet!

DMOC

Dec 12, 2008, 08:53 PM

Hurry up and kill Gilgamesh! ;)

apenpaap

Dec 13, 2008, 04:48 AM

I think burning everything is a great idea. :snowgrin::snowlaugh:

Joshua368

Dec 13, 2008, 08:07 AM

Razing every to the ground in fine, and leave the last civ in an eternal naval blocade. But not gilgamesh, do you really want to spend eternity with him? Keep Catherine alive instead. ;)

TheMeInTeam

Dec 13, 2008, 10:26 AM

If you're going for eternal naval blockade, cathy's land is a bit big. Do it to Izzy. Izzy's better anyway <3 ;).

madscientist

Dec 13, 2008, 12:37 PM

Stagnation!: Part VII

Well, we are finally tops in score!!! We merely need to stay there for a few centuries!!!

We started by Moving our armada towards Gilgamesh

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedG0000.jpg

And being ever polite to our good friend

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedG0001.jpg

Now there was some dicsussion about leaving Cathy until last and a GOOD freind, however looking at the map

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedG0002.jpg

Down to one city which was captured by Gilgamesh next turn. Oh well, one less Ai to worry about and at least I do not have to deal with Cossacks!

So my idea orinially was to simply raze all Summerian coastal cities like so

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedG0003.jpg

However, we got this Crusades Quest

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedG0004.jpg

OK, new plan. we capture the southern region of Summeria!

Techpath this segment went: Electricity/Fascism/Industrialism/Communism.

we started our assault on Uruk by capturing the southern most coastal city

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedG0006.jpg And proceeded to march north. Gilgamesh is protective and has rifles and cavalry so it took quite a bit to take him down. However, TIME is somethign we certainly have plenty of!!!!!

And once we captured Uruk

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedG0007.jpg

We found it had ALOT of Booty!

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedG0008.jpg

Hindu Shrine, SoL and the SoZ, let old Gilgamesh deal with that thing. I should say we had alot of War Weariness which we ignored! We adopted Ploice State, built jails, and upped the culture slider to 30%.

And once we finished the Crusader Quest

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedG0009.jpg

We took those 4 free infantry to defend the city.

We captured and kept one more city, mostly to alleviate cultural pressure.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedG0010.jpg

And then proceeded to raze everything else we could. we also strangled Gilgameshes coastal cities by blockading each with a destroyer.

We now started taking our Naval force arround the continent

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedG0014.jpg

Quickly reducing culture defense with the destroyers and then attacking the city with infantry and razing it

After sailing arround the entire continent we actually has some infantry left at the end

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedG0015.jpg

So at this point we have a completely land-locked Gilgamesh

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedG0016.jpg

Heh, Heh, Heh!!!

And for peace

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedG0017.jpg

Hell, a really solid city for free!!!!

I saved here, looking to fillin some backwards techs, build some tanks, get all jails and then Mount Rushmore and have some fun!!!! The HE city has 5 settled GGs right now and hopefully we can get the Pentagon very soon! That's 4 free promotions from the HE city!

Techs

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedG0018.jpg

And the Glance Screen

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedG0019.jpg

Guess Gilgamesh is not too happy with us!

OK, We keep Gilgamesh land locked and alive. We kill all the other nations. Isabella we shall decide later although I think she will be killed also.

Once I get the Manhatten Project I can start nuking teh hell out of any internal, Summerian, or Barbarian cities. Just to Spite.

apenpaap

Dec 13, 2008, 01:46 PM

I advise strongly against nuking the krap out of everyone. Global Warming will have a lot of time to turn the entire world into dessert as you'll be playing until 2050. It will get annoying without nukes, but terrible ith them.

BakingTheArt

Dec 13, 2008, 01:54 PM

Well, that'll just make it harder for the others to win!

JammerUno

Dec 13, 2008, 01:56 PM

Global warming is caused by pollution, health demerits from buildings IIRC, so razing all the AIs will help a great deal. Razing all the coastal cities is nice, but I'ld be interested in how big you can get your cities with sids sushi and allmost all the worlds fish/crab/clam.

cripp7

Dec 13, 2008, 02:30 PM

yeah Sid sushi would be outstanding in this game. I do not think that nukes would have any bearing on Mad's land

Joshua368

Dec 13, 2008, 02:49 PM

Nukes will pretty much turn his land to desert. If you want the highest possible score, you certainly won't want to use them... but if you don't care it doesn't matter!

TheMeInTeam

Dec 13, 2008, 03:43 PM

yeah Sid sushi would be outstanding in this game. I do not think that nukes would have any bearing on Mad's land

They use al gore rear end fairy magic to spam pretend deserts all over the place. If mad used say 30 nukes it wouldn't surprise me if over 1/3 of his land turns into desert.

Even though nukes don't cause global warming. And global warming doesn't convert land into desert. But, Al Gore's rear end fairy magic is really strong to begin with. Nukes modify it +50%, and marathon modifies it +100%.

Creators went out of their way to poorly implement global warming in an impossible way and make it based on unrealistic factors as much as possible.

It's a function of total sick faces (regardless of if there's enough health to overcome it, so say running ENVIRONMENTALISM indirectly RAISES the odds for global warming), nukes (you know, because nukes emit green house gases in huge amounts............oh wait, they don't), and forests/jungles chopped (the only remotely serviceable thing, and the only constant as the AIs will chop it all).

So running a high tech, efficient society that recycles everywhere and cares about health will substantially raise the chances of turning miles and miles of grassland into desert at random.

I'd care less, if this had any...you know...USEFUL GAMEPLAY considerations. However, it even fails that check. It's just a nuisance (i've not once lost to GW, but the comical stupidity deserves rants nonetheless).

JammerUno

Dec 13, 2008, 04:18 PM

apenpaap

Dec 13, 2008, 05:04 PM

@TMIT: I agree, Global Warming is unrealistic and annoying in civ. You're wrong however, about nukes not creating greenhouse gases: the nuke itself doesn't make CO2, but the burning city does.

Joshua368

Dec 13, 2008, 06:06 PM

I for one wouldn't mind if Mad Scientist joined the club and quickly modded out global warming altogether. Very quick and simple to do, I know I don't like empires I painstakingly put together and perfect weakening to desert with absolutely nothing I can do about it. Once again, not game breaking... just stupid and un-fun.

Killroyan

Dec 13, 2008, 06:35 PM

What a game!!!!!!!!! Boring as hell it is supposed to be and yet is soooo much fun. I wonder how much global warming we will get.

TheMeInTeam

Dec 13, 2008, 08:54 PM

@TMIT: I agree, Global Warming is unrealistic and annoying in civ. You're wrong however, about nukes not creating greenhouse gases: the nuke itself doesn't make CO2, but the burning city does.

Does that amount to enough to contend with say, the pollution that city emits on a daily basis had the nuke not struck :nuke:? I think not.

Anyway, I vote against mad XML-removing GW in this one :devil:. I want to drag him into the suffering I felt! Hear that awful noise about 100+ times! You know you want to! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Mister Giggles

Dec 13, 2008, 10:51 PM

Oi...when nuclear weapons are involved, CO2 is the absolute least of one's worries.

Given a 60 megaton nuke (If I recall, the 'average' in the US arsenal; Russia has 'em bigger), everyone/everything within ten or so miles is simply obliterated, with a fairly extensive network of burning rubble left over. Everyone in a further radius upwards of 20 miles out from the blast will wish they died during the initial explosion, as they'll be radiated to such an extent their bodies will fall apart from the inside out due to extensive radiation poisoning caused by fallout.

And let's not forget the fallout. Lovely, really. Imagine hundreds of thousands of tons of radioactive dust being blow into the atmosphere, while taking days, weeks, even months to hit the ground again. This stuff can spread hundreds of miles away from the initial blast zone before coming down, possibly destroying the local foodchain in the process as it kills off the small stuff the bigger stuff eats.

Then you're left with thousand/ten of thousands/hundreds of thousands/millions/tens of millions (Depending on where the bomb went off) of people dead, dying, or horrifically mutilated for the rest of their lives due to the bomb and the fallout. The instance of cancers like lukemia spikes exponencially in the coming decades, and the site of and around the blast is inhospitable for life as we know it until everything's been removed, including the topsoil. All of it.

If anything, nukes in Civ IV don't do enough. But one or two won't cause global warming. Thousands of them won't, either. But then we run into something far worse than a few degrees rise in temperature and the Arctic melting away. We have a nuclear winter, where, simply, 95%+ of all life on Earth dies, and the sun isn't seen through the clouds of radioative dust again for at least a decade.

Can we actually do that? Easily. The US and Russia combined have 20,000+ nukes, more than enough to destroy every major city and first strike target in the world dozens of times over. We came within minutes of a nuclear war happening back in the Cold War, and it's very likely to come to pass this century with radical terrorists working on getting their nukes (Albiet on a smaller scale, with the victim being Israel/US and the country that launched the nukes to begin with).

A terrifying thought? Yes. But you should be terrified. The fear of destroying the world, everyone in it, has so far kept anyone from using them post-WW2. Radical Islamic terrorists don't know such fear, though...but that's another matter entirely.

Regardless, I might be off on my megaton to destruction radius, so don't take me entirely at face value there. Also, uh...

</Rant>

TheMeInTeam

Dec 13, 2008, 11:11 PM

I think you're off on the fallout (IIRC more modern ones have less fallout since they're detonated higher up, and the fission conversion is more efficient = larger explosion, less fallout ------> still quite horrific though). Even you pointed out that it has nothing to do with GW though :p. Linking them to GW is almost as ridiculous as the mod where using "too many nukes" causes the world to break in half like an egg :rolleyes:.

That said, I think it would be funny if mad used enough to cause literally 60% of the world or more to turn into desert, since he seems to want to use them. Extreme fantasy nonsense FTW!

Cmon mad. Fire at least 100 nukes :p.

Mister Giggles

Dec 13, 2008, 11:28 PM

I may be off on fallout figures, but the degree of fallout is entirely dependant on what you want to do. Higher up means more fallout over a wider area, closer to the ground means more destruction. Granted, given the power of modern nukes, it's a moot point for the people involved. They're dead.

By the way, it also depends on WHOSE nukes you're talking about. US has smaller, cleaner nukes. Russia has bigger, dirtier nukes, mainly because they can't hit the broad side of a barn with their targetting systems and therefore need to assure they still wipe of the target even if they're off 10 miles.

Kesshi

Dec 14, 2008, 04:33 AM

I think the global warming turning tiles into desert is a reflection on the land becoming useless, not becoming hot and dry, just useless. I would care as much about GW in the game if there was a realistic way of countering it, or some way of seeing the areas that will be affected beforehand.

Scrubbing radiation is even worse than GW though, it can't be done.

JammerUno,

In one of my OCC games where I was using cottages, Global Warming happening on one of my Riverside Towns. It leveled the Town. The surrounding tiles were unaffected. Does that make sense?

Same game, Global Warming happened on one of my Hills. It destroyed the Mine, so I rebuilt the mine. Sure it was -2 Hammers than before, but a Desert Hill with a Mine and a Railroad is far from useless.

JammerUno

Dec 14, 2008, 09:04 AM

In one of my OCC games where I was using cottages, Global Warming happening on one of my Riverside Towns. It leveled the Town. The surrounding tiles were unaffected. Does that make sense?

Same game, Global Warming happened on one of my Hills. It destroyed the Mine, so I rebuilt the mine. Sure it was -2 Hammers than before, but a Desert Hill with a Mine and a Railroad is far from useless.

The fact that there's no logic behind GW is a drawback, sure, it would be superior if already present deserts grew larger, or coastal landtiles would flood. But you can't have it all. I think GW would be best eliminated from the game, as long as there's no depletion of resources, why include this enviromental thing.

As fallout is concerned; fusion is far less prone to fallout than fission, but even if you reduce the relative fallout by 99%, if you then increase the power of the bomb by 200 000%, you still have a nominal increase. The most powerful nuke ever was the 50 Mts 'Tsar Bomba, which they reduced in power from 100 Mts, I quote wikipedia reluctantly, but "It has been estimated that detonating the original 100 Mt design would have released fallout amounting to about 25 percent of all fallout emitted since the invention of nuclear weapons.".
Something like Chernobyl is worse still, because there's alot of other material surrounding the blast, like massive blocks of graphite.

NoDot

Dec 14, 2008, 10:41 AM

Given a 60 megaton nuke (If I recall, the 'average' in the US arsenal; Russia has 'em bigger),i think you mean "kiloton." The largest nuke on record was the 50 megaton Tsar Bomb. Nukes that size are too large and unwieldy to use, however.

And let's not forget the fallout.[/quote]Fallout comes from matter getting sucked up into the fireball and getting irradiated. Unless it's a ground burst, fallout is irrelevant.

Then you're left with thousand/ten of thousands/hundreds of thousands/millions/tens of millions (Depending on where the bomb went off) of people dead, dying, or horrifically mutilated for the rest of their lives due to the bomb and the fallout.Fun fact: drop a nuke on London. 95% of the infrastructure remains intact (or easily repairable), and 80% of the population survives. It's a Get-Rich-Quick scheme/joke in The Business.

If anything, nukes in Civ IV don't do enough.Agreed. Nukes should perhaps destroy cities, letting the game properly simulate The Nuclear Game (http://www.tboverse.us/HPCAFORUM/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=113).

madscientist

Dec 14, 2008, 11:12 AM

cripp7

Dec 14, 2008, 11:13 AM

maybe desert warfare.. good luck Mad

madscientist

Dec 14, 2008, 11:35 AM

Stagnation!: Part VII

We started this segment with one goal in mind and ended up deviating from that original plan a bit.

To start we finished one of the happiness wonders

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedH0000.jpg

Which helps and keep us off the culture slider as we have jails, Police State, and finished Mount Rushmore.

Next, let's discuss the techpath: Communism/Flight/Radio/Rocketry/Fission/Artillery/Biology/start refridgeration.

After Communism we adjust civics.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedH0001.jpg

We got this random event

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedH0002.jpg

I would like to tell you what I took, but to be honest I forgot!!!!!!

So let's get into the Meat of the segment

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedH0004.jpg

Summerian Barbeque!

My plan was to simply chop away at Gilgamesh's coastal cities, but that plan changed. Oh we razed alot of Summerian coastal cities which I will not bore you all with but we were simply getting nowehere and old Gilgamesh is still the biggest tech threat. Meanwhile Zara and his one island city decided on a little restribution

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedH0005.jpg

We ignored him and got peace later.

We also finally finished this wonder

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedH0006.jpg

And another random event that I do remember what I did

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedH0007.jpg

Took choice #2 which gaves us +5 commerce per harbor. The other upgraded all gunpowder units to march which I did not think I needed.

we fianlly got arround to dragging our fleet to the last Indian city

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedH0008.jpg

Which we razed! At this point I decided to just attack Gilgamesh's core cities via land and eliminate him from the game. Too many good tank units were getting killed in amphibious assaults and we do have bombers now.

The first city we got

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedH0009.jpg

We accidently razed. Woops, and it was the Buddhist holy city!!! Sorry about that Gilgamesh!

However it did link our continental cities allowing us to use several attack forces to wipe him out.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedH0010.jpg

We did pop a GE which we used to speed up

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedH0012.jpg

WE also are in desperate need for a super healer so we used the next GG, Yamamota, as our Medic III unit

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedH0013.jpg

And transferred him to front!

we did not take all cities, and especially razed the coastal ones

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedH0014.jpg

This allowed alot of the other AIs to settle these lands.

We then got the Overwhelm doctrine

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedH0015.jpg

Which we fullfilled and took +5 commerce per harbor as all our naval units are already combat I!

We dropped another wonder

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedH0016.jpg

Allowing us to swap between Police State and US depending on war conditions.

I should not that between our assaults and the SoZ wonder Gilgamesh is floundering at about 2000 war weariness!

We then started assaulting the major Summerian cities with plenty of air-support

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedH0017.jpg

Suffice to say we captured all the Summerian cities rather than boring you with so many screenshots.

However the last one

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedH0024.jpg

Asoka and Gilgamesh dead, this continent is ours with a large tech edge.

We played out a few more turns to straighten things out and saved.

To Be Continued........

madscientist

Dec 14, 2008, 11:41 AM

Stagnation! Part VII

So we adjusted civics

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedH0025.jpg

For this type of game, I certaily could use that Christo Redntor wonders!

Techs

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedH0026.jpg

I think I will tech off DR, MS, and MM just so I have absolute control of all techs!

The diplomacy board

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedH0027.jpg

Victory conditions

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedH0028.jpg

I will assume that bringing those Summerian cities up to full potential will NOT get us over the Domination limit!

And the Military Advisor shows us

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedH0029.jpg

Well, we are Hatty's worse enemy, but Hatty is Isabella's worse enemy. Issabella also has enough on her hands while the other two are not planning anything.

So my plans

1) Finish the Manhatten Project and build Nukes.

2) Assembly the extremely large Armada of death and start Taking out Zara and his cronies!

I think I would prefer to spend eternity with the two ladies rather than a bunch of ugly men!

UWHabs

Dec 14, 2008, 11:49 AM

You don't have near the land area needed for the dom victory. Worst case, pick one AI and gift them a section of continent.

You have enough to prevent anyone else from winning a UN victory. You can just abstain from voting for yourself, and you're fine.

TheMeInTeam

Dec 14, 2008, 01:14 PM

Update coming! 580 turns left and the fun is only beginning!!

Regarding Global Warming in BTS, I always thought it was directly related to Nuclear activity. It occurs without dropping nukes because the AIs Nuclear Plants meltdown periodically.

Either way, I will test this out one way or another. Either keep all the AIs off of Nuclear Plants or Just nuke the entire world and see if I can actually still win the game with an empire of desert!

It's coded to be a result of 1) forest clearing, 2) unhealthy faces in cities even if the city is healthy and 3) nukes.

To put it mildly, I got wrecked by GW even though nobody built nuke plants (I didn't and they didn't have the tech for almost the entire time). Nukes were banned and never fired. Every single city in the world was healthy. All of mine had recycling centers/aqueducts/public transportation etc etc.

It doesn't matter one damned bit. If you have a lot of population, and factory/power combination at all (even if it's clean), and you cleared forests/jungle (or even if the AI did), you're getting GW.

That's why I voted you just go with the flow and nuke the entire world into desert.

Edit: You'll trip domination POP, but not land.

UWHabs

Dec 14, 2008, 01:57 PM

Well, in a sense, it makes sense to base it on total unhealthy. I mean, I think overcrowding of the world has contributed a fair bit to global warming... You can argue that they should tone down the effects of it (rising water levels "washing away" some coastal tiles would make sense, or even keeping squares in tact, but as you get more global warming, your cities get more unhappiness and unhealthiness).

Mister Giggles

Dec 14, 2008, 04:37 PM

"i think you mean "kiloton." The largest nuke on record was the 50 megaton Tsar Bomb. Nukes that size are too large and unwieldy to use, however."

Megaton. I was off on the megatonage, being that Tsar Bomba was a 100 megaton used at half yield (50, in other words), but the average nuke is still hovering in the megaton range. The nukes dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were in the range of 15 kilotons, and that was before the advent of hydrogen bombs which ramped up yields significantly.

Thank you for the correction, however. I was afraid I was off on how big the average nuke is.

"Fallout comes from matter getting sucked up into the fireball and getting irradiated. Unless it's a ground burst, fallout is irrelevant."

Unless it's done in a vacuum where there's no air (The matter), you're still going to have irradiated crap falling down from the sky. You are correct, there will be less of it, but what there is will be spread over a wider area. A ground burst will have more of it, but it won't have the same travel range.

"Fun fact: drop a nuke on London. 95% of the infrastructure remains intact (or easily repairable), and 80% of the population survives. It's a Get-Rich-Quick scheme/joke in The Business."

I would disagree with this, at least with modern nukes. A Hiroshima/Nagasaki sized bomb, I'd agree.

madscientist

Dec 15, 2008, 09:25 PM

Stagnation!: Part IX

WOW, Stagnation is right.

We started by moving our modest SoD towards Zara's homeland

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedI0000.jpg

Three vassals yet he has 1 lone island. Well that ended fast enough

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedI0001.jpg

We then sailed right next to Mao's lands and did the same to his 2 cities.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedI0002.jpg

Two Ais down real fast.

In the meantime

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedI0003.jpg

So we started building a few ICBMs.

After ripping apart the BRitish Island we find Churchill had the audacity to keep one land-locked. Well we shall show him.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedI0004.jpg

We sailed off to Destroy the Germans

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedI0005.jpg

While we awaited our ICBMs to finish

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedI0006.jpg

Then launched three against London dropping the population 1.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedI0007.jpg

Soon I became simply bored with this, so I landed my tanks and

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedI0008.jpg

Go ahead ladies, you are welcome to settle that landmass to your heart's content!

We got the last Modern wonder

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedI0009.jpg

And the ladies started a catfight amongst themselves

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedI0010.jpg

And just because I could

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedI0011.jpg

We elected ourselves the chair and ignored all fiuture proposals except for

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedI0014.jpg

I have enough to keep the ladies off of us, yet without the fear of them building their own!

The GE from Fussion (forget the techpath, I teched big and that's enough)

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedI0013.jpg

Launched a 24 turn Golden Age. Somewhere I must have picked up the Masuleum.

We built infratructure and massive military!!! More and More!!!

At the end of the GA we savced with a mere 471 turns left!

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedI0015.jpg

Well, I saved here.

I likely will play it out to the end unless something more enbtertaining occurs or the boredom drives me to attack the ladies.

Enough for tomight

PS: Yes, global warming is a small issue not but in 400+ turns we may have a wasteland!.

Shadowcrow

Dec 15, 2008, 09:31 PM

Watch out, your dangerously close to popping over that land area limit.
Also, how do you plan to stop your cities from going over the cultural limit.

TheMeInTeam

Dec 15, 2008, 09:32 PM

Watch out, your dangerously close to popping over that land area limit.
Also, how do you plan to stop your cities from going over the cultural limit.

He's not all that close to tripping dom. If he gets too close he can just gift cities...

As for culture, do recall that you need 150,000 culture on marathon. He's nowhere close and certainly won't win that by accident.

Shadowcrow

Dec 15, 2008, 09:34 PM

He's not all that close to tripping dom. If he gets too close he can just gift cities...

As for culture, do recall that you need 150,000 culture on marathon. He's nowhere close and certainly won't win that by accident.
Ah my bad, I'm too used to epic.

6% isn't a whole lot, I guess so long as you completely avoid culture popping and taking new cities it should be fine though.

Joshua368

Dec 15, 2008, 09:49 PM

Why are you referring to Suryavarman II amoung "the ladies"? D:

Kevie

Dec 15, 2008, 11:35 PM

sury does wear a headdress and a gown. shrugs* i'm sure someone finds him/her attractive....

TheMeInTeam

Dec 16, 2008, 12:01 AM

Ah my bad, I'm too used to epic.

6% isn't a whole lot, I guess so long as you completely avoid culture popping and taking new cities it should be fine though.

Well, water doesn't count, so if you're not pushing AI culture, you're fine ;).

I was actually within 1% once, although I had to gift a city back as a result. I was then comfortably ~ 1.5% below the threshold, and since no amount of border pops on my part would have increased it, it was fine.

IMO, mad's in a similar situation.

madscientist

Dec 16, 2008, 05:46 AM

sury does wear a headdress and a gown. shrugs* i'm sure someone finds him/her attractive....

Actually I nor sure what Sury is and since he is the colony of Cathy originating from conquered Hatty lands I'll give him a pass this time arround:D

NoDot

Dec 16, 2008, 02:53 PM

"Fallout comes from matter getting sucked up into the fireball and getting irradiated. Unless it's a ground burst, fallout is irrelevant."

Unless it's done in a vacuum where there's no air (The matter), you're still going to have irradiated crap falling down from the sky. You are correct, there will be less of it, but what there is will be spread over a wider area. A ground burst will have more of it, but it won't have the same travel range.I'm more inclined to side with the former Tagetteer, who claims fallout from airbursts is insignificant after 24 hours.

madscientist

Dec 16, 2008, 08:53 PM

Stagnation!: The Finale

Well, it is done, mercifully!

I played straight to the end as there was not much to relate. Still some tale is required.

We started by dropping a few wonders

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedJ0000.jpg

Mostly to keep them out of the Ais hands.

We got the random event announcing the developement of this great Game of Civilization!

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedJ0001.jpg

Always worth a screenshot!

We finished

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedJ0002.jpg

And

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedJ0003.jpg

I kept my sanity by going to all cities and basically queing up every building we can erect with little concern for happiness, health, or need. Once Isabella finally caught up in power numbers we built 10 Modern Tanks in each city, then built beakers! We also had 8 jet's protecting most cities.

We did manage to launch yet another golden age, this one with 4 GPs

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedJ0004.jpg

The UN ended up being our best defense against a sneak attack as we kept asking for the FR civic which Isabella kept defying resulting

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedJ0005.jpg

She basically starved all her cities to 1 population because of unhappiness (I assume Seville had the GT). Now that is religious fanaticism although the Spanish churches had particularly low turnout for a good long time.

Also we ended up getting to "Future Tech" 62 times for an extra 62 happy faces and 62 health!

And another thing I never saw before

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedJ0006.jpg

My best guess is all defied a UN resolution before. WOW!

Finally.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedJ0007.jpg

I need to go and buy a new mouse after this game!

The power numbers

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedJ0008.jpg

And finally the Score

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Mehmed/MehmedJ0009.jpg

I hope everyone enjoyed this LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG game! I can gaurentee I will NOT be going after anymore time victories, but still it has been done, once!

Recap to follow