The following is a short strategy theory in regard to Babylon that is successful both in single and multi-player modes.

Hammurabi- Babylon
Aggressive-Free Combat I promotion for melee and gunpowder units.
Double production speed of Barracks and Drydock.
Organized-Civic upkeep reduced 50 percent.
Double production speed of Lighthouse, Factory, and Courthouse.
The key wonder for Babylon is The Hanging Gardens (Mathematics and an Aquaduct)
+1 health in all cities
+1 population in all cities
City more likely to generate Great Engineer

Game designers unconsciuosly rely on psychological and visual clues more telling then rationalized desicions, note the color scheme and strange unique unit the Bowmen -(horribly deficient against horse/chariot
and archers). However, this weakness, coupled with traits and finesse' fields a greater army than Rome.
The unique building is the Garden
Replaces Colosseum- (Construction)
+1 :)
+2 :health:
+1 :) per 20% rate

The tech line is fairly straight forward- Archery for the Bowmen- then towards Animal Husbandry. Army composition is Chariots/Horse Archers, and Bowmen and in a reverse of positioning horse archers and chariots are used as city defenders until more Formation and the much neglected Cover promoted Bowmen are available. (Either Drill or Combat line- keep in mind there is a non-upgradable built-in amplified Shock-like promotion for Bowmen- (also Guerilla II will allow for faster troops to keep up with horse if speed is needed over a march- however keep in mind catapults are available with the tech path forseen)
Religion is usually not an option- skip it and adopt Buddhism if it comes around. Teching towards Mathematics and Construction then takes priority ( Hanging Gardens, Garden)
The Organized trait will amplify this small but focused empire allowing for either a defensive or offensive posture, later teching towards Feudalism to upgrade any surviving Bowmen and too switch to the Civics of Vassalage and Serfdom.
This tactic was successful against three opponents of high ability on multiplayer game who had decided that Greece and the Phalanx were the optimal choice- only to have their armies destroyed.

TtF it seems that rather than discussing strategy you just discuss what happens/happened in one of your games. Well done that you defeated some human opponents but none of it had anything to do with anything you wrote here.

Can't take you seriously until you backup your assertions with clear explanations rather than gibberish about venn diagrams and binary genetics.

By the way, who were these three high level opponents?

AHHHHH I GET IT! I had to defend my Babylonian cities with horse archers! Everything makes sense now!

And how exactly is The Hanging Gardens so useful to the Babylonians?

Game designers unconsciuosly rely on psychological and visual clues more telling then rationalized desicions

That explains a lot:lol::lol:

So instead of using your brain and strategies you just "look" at the game:lol:

And how exactly is The Hanging Gardens so useful to the Babylonians?

The Hanging Gardens is more useful to the Babylonians then other early wonders in conjunction with running a small size empire with few workers and heading towards Feudalism and running Vassalage and Serfdom Civics.
"The added health and population increases productivity, research and your economy.-" WoundedKnight
There is also a Colloseum event which gives a bonus adding to the unique buildings.

"Game designers unconsciuosly rely on psychological and visual clues more telling then rationalized desicions"

"That explains a lot"

One simple interpretation is that the hue lavenderish implies a red- (aggressive) color with blue
(spiritual) thereby showing the optimal war path would be a taunting aggression-
The bit of gold is added to imply Budhhism would be a good religion (ie convert early) and building will be favorable.

I just have a small request:

Can you please post a game up here on the forums with loads of screenshots so we can see your strategy in action?

I'm not saying the guide is bad, it just doesn't seem very clear, like this:

Game designers unconsciuosly rely on psychological and visual clues more telling then rationalized desicions

And how exactly is The Hanging Gardens so useful to the Babylonians?
Because in the Real World, they are the "Hanging Gardens of Babylon". (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanging_Gardens_of_Babylon)

See, troy relies on actual world history to form his strategies, as well as the colors of the Civ's, and of course, abstract mathematical concepts that have nothing to do with actual in-game math.

The starting techs are The Wheel and Agriculture
Getting to Construction with Ivory allows a host of options. The Babylonian immediate worker gives automatic builds (allowing for full automation), while a quick Hunting/Archery dash does little to slow the 48 turns to Construction allowing for Gardens, Hanging Gardens , and War Elephants. (Animal Husbandry and Horsebackriding).
The Attacko Method - Horse Archers/Chariots and/or War Elephants, Bowmen, Garden, Hanging Gardens, Catapults, and a Great Engineer, early and final.

The advice given by attacko is literally just rambling. It makes your head hurt just trying to figure out the point, because there is none.

It's becoming borderline spam now.

I'll ask again since my question didn't get answered in my previous post.

Could we see a sample game please? Thanks.

to be really really honest, I like his way of thinking.

although most, if not all of his comments should be looked as a good comedy, they do have certain truths in them. Attacko is supposed to be like a super aggressive, war-mongering, blood thirsty zealot, and I like him!
It doesn't really have to make sense or be fully efficient to be "fun", as long as the strategy has a clear objective IMO.

I'd like to see more of these short strategies as I am very interested to know what other civs would look like under Attacko's command.

Keep up the good work!

EDIT: oh yeah, sample game would be so great :O

Bowmen -(horribly deficient against horse/chariot
and archers). However, this weakness, coupled with traits and finesse' fields a greater army than Rome.

Army composition is Chariots/Horse Archers, and Bowmen and in a reverse of positioning horse archers and chariots are used as city defenders until more Formation and the much neglected Cover promoted Bowmen are available.

I'm sorry, but my army of cover promoted and cr promoted Praetorians will make mince meat of your chariot/bowman army, especially since you have your horse archers/chariots defending your captured cities... And why would you give a bowman the cover promotion for city defense (unless of course I'm reading this wrong)?

And why would you give a bowman the cover promotion for city defense (unless of course I'm reading this wrong)?
His point is legit here. Bowman start with + vs Melee, so giving them Cover will make them better City Raiders, since Archery units cant get the CR promo line.

But they arent for defense, you are suggested to leave your Chariots and HAs behind as garrisons while your army of Bowman romp onward.

Because in the Real World, they are the "Hanging Gardens of Babylon".


Ah, I understood now, why The Pyramids is best suitable for Ramses and Chichen Itza for Monty(it's actually Pacal, but not a big difference) Let me guess. The next will be Qin and The Great Wall, Pericles with The Oracle and Victoria with Stonehenge.

On another note, this reminds me of the bowman unique unit for Babylon in Civ III. Had 2 attack and 2 defense so it functioned as both the normal attacker and defender of the early game. Which means you could just amass bowman and use them as defenders for the cities they captured.

Hmmm...

i might be high or something, but fair do's to attacko.

Getting Hunting/Archery early enough to scout with Bowmen- bumping up their Drill or Combat promotions in order to get the sorely needed Cover or Formation is neccessay- battling animals and warriors and getting Cover for the later barbarian archers.

"reminds me of the bowman unique unit for Babylon in Civ III."
The ol Civ3 Bowmen was called a "poor man's Legionairre" but was better and easier than the Civ4 Bowmen.

I'll ask again since my question didn't get answered in my previous post.

Could we see a sample game please? Thanks.

Faith is about believing when there isn't a shred of evidence. Faith is a virtue.

To prove this, I google the keywords faith good. 16,300,000 results.
faith bad. 1,980,000 results.

The internet has spoken.

There are a couple of random events which play into this theory- one is where "our bowmakers have improved bows" (giving Cover) and the other is the colloseum event. Also Mathematics (prioritized in this method) allows for "Can build fort. Workers produces 50% more hammers from chopping ) - using chopping (the Hanging Gardens ) when the chopping is good, and allowing for a Fort as a troops station point and enemy death trap.

"Mathematics. Hanging Gardens -- + 1 POP and +1 health in all your cities is huge, especially when you have a lot of small and moderate-size cities." -WoundedKnight

An optimal promotion path would be Drill/Combat, Cover, Drill II/Combat II, Formation.
Non-frontline troops can later be given the option for City Garrison as they move towards the front.
One way to get a decent anti-horse/chariot/archer defender on the attack without Formation or chariot/horse cover is Guerilla but this can be terrain limiting. Cutting off an enemy's horse resource takes priority over metal. Your early screen of fog busting Bowmen become your frontline assault storm trooper shock archers. There is an old Babylonian adage- "a wolf hunting, panther killing, barbarian mauling Bowmen in the field- never again enters a city, unless it is the enemy's."

Army composition is Chariots/Horse Archers, and Bowmen and in a reverse of positioning horse archers and chariots are used as city defenders until more Formation and the much neglected Cover promoted Bowmen are available.

I've had considerable success using large numbers of chariots & horse archers to defend cities, especially when attacked by huge stacks with catapults.
The trick is not to just sit behind the walls and wait for them to attack, but to attack them first when they pull up next to the city. With a barracks and stable in the cities where you're building, they'll have the maximum promotions right from the start. The large numbers and the two promotions will help a good number of them survive, even when the attacking stacks have spearmen. The survivors will be promoted again and more likely to survive again. Later, they can be upgraded to knights, cavalry etc. This can be an excellent technique with Cyrus and the Great Wall.

I had one game where Tokugawa was attacking relentlessly with massive stacks. I must have popped 4 GG's during the horse archer era alone. I like to put all those GG's in the best production city to pump out highly promoted units. Eventually you get an army that's so highly promoted, that the other civs (even if they're more technically advanced) can be crushed by the strength of the promoted units. :)

I'm a great fan of your strategies my friend, but I feel you have missed a major component of Hammurabi's strategy here.

Due to the fact he has the Organised trait, Harbours become extremely important. Of course the main problem with this, is that Harbours are on the wrong side of the tech tree from Mathematics. The best solution is to vassalize your nearest neighbour rather than conquer, this therefore makes it easier to grab the Shwedagon Paya...bang...problem solved.

I'll ask again since I didn't get my question answered by troytheface in my previous 2 posts in this thread.

Could we see a sample game here exhibiting the strategy in the guide? Thanks

Edit: Nevermind....

'The best solution is to vassalize your nearest neighbour rather than conquer, this therefore makes it easier to grab the Shwedagon Paya...bang...problem solved."

Babylon oft times misses out on religion so the Shwedagon Paya suggestion makes sense especially if you have Gold.

"I've had considerable success using large numbers of chariots & horse archers to defend cities"

I am surprised at the scoffing at horse units as defenders, - if you play enough you'll encounter this as a phenomenon if nothing else.

"Could we see a sample game here exhibiting the strategy in the guide? Thanks"

Thanks for the comments. Attacko strategy articles expand inward instead of outward, (unlike others with dated walkthroughs, or cottage building whining) The more you break up space the more room there is. however, i believe Attacko likens walkthroughs to facism. maybe a video of "Attacko's Ice City First Build Attack" can be found.

Never mind

"Could we see a sample game here exhibiting the strategy in the guide? Thanks"

No intention to ignore, insults and mockery have followed some postings like ants to carrion,
however, i beleive Attacko likens walkthroughs to facism.

Thank you for responding.

I'm not quite sure I understand your point, though. How are walkthroughs similar to fascism?

"a walkthrough is a truth, not proof of a truth." - Attacko

from - "Attacko's Civ4- an Analytical Approach to Positional Play"

a walkthrough is a truth, not proof of a truth. - Attacko

Does that make sense?

Does that make sense?

It has to have been.

lol, Thanks for the laughs. I had a rough day and some of your quotes cracked me up.

I have to read the "Attacko's Ice City First Build Attack" thread.

"a walkthrough is a truth, not proof of a truth." - ha ha, that reminded of something Johnny Cochrane would say in the 1st OJ trial, or the Chewbaca defense on Southpark.

"a walkthrough is a truth, not proof of a truth." - Attacko

from - "Attacko's Civ4- an Analytical Approach to Positional Play"

Exactly. A walkthrough is a truth (well with a few exceptions). I disagree with the proof of a truth. Walkthroughs are meant to show what strategies work. A person who plays a game and demonstrates a SE and then wins by domination on a huge map on immortal difficulty in 1500 sure shows us "proof" of this "truth" of a specialist economy.

I still don't understand why you are declining to do a simple, simple walkthrough. It doesn't have to be long, it just has to be lengthy enough to prove your point. For example, look at Snaaty's guide for Emperor+ on BTS. He does a sample game to about 1000 AD.

I get the feeling this is satire, and I love it.

The only thing that would make this better is if Attacko spoke with reversed sentence structure, like Yoda.

I'd like to see a "modern era quechua rush" strategy :crazyeye:

I get the feeling this is satire, and I love it.

The only thing that would make this better is if Attacko spoke with reversed sentence structure, like Yoda.

I'd like to see a "modern era quechua rush" strategy :crazyeye:

Use amphibious elephants you must!

If you read through the funny satire the actual strat proposed is quite sound. Of course there are some additions like the forced adaption (because of the very golden visual clue :lol:) of Buddism if it comes along that make it harder.

I'll need time to fully adapt to this brilliant strat myself but i'm sure with the sound guidelines i have received here i could pull it off on emperor. The strat needs to be summarized and some rules should be adhered to/forced of course so as not to decend to some heathen inferior sub strategy (such as taking up hinduism :eek:).

Hi Troy,

Another well reasoned article - is it optimal to try and integrate Attacko's numerous and superior tactics in one game? i.e. using the catastrophy therom in conjuction with the "spy flood" & "buddhist typhoon" as Babylonia when launching waves of cover promoted bowmen onto border cities, luring defenders away from coastal/core cities when the main strike force - amphibous promoted elephants on galleys with great generals attached take the proverbial "candy from a baby"

Your thoughts on this would be appreciated- is it optimal to link the theories?

Thanks in advance!

In some cases it's true that a civ should generally build their historic wonder.
Egypt and the Pyramids for sure.
Brennus gets huge benefit from his, Stonehenge.
Qin with the Great wall. He's Ind, and allows him to expand quickly with just protective archers.
Both Greek leaders and the Parthenon.
some more I'm sure...

In some cases it's true that a civ should generally build their historic wonder.
Egypt and the Pyramids for sure.
Brennus gets huge benefit from his, Stonehenge.
Qin with the Great wall. He's Ind, and allows him to expand quickly with just protective archers.
Both Greek leaders and the Parthenon.
some more I'm sure...

Stone Henge is for England.

Both Celtic leaders get the Monument benefit, just as both Egyptian leaders have SPI for swapping civics with the Mids.

But there are many more that dont really link up. The HGs is one of them, heh. I suppose some synergy with their UB (early happiness) could link to extra pop, and the building it replaces has the +health link as well, sort of, but its pretty transient. I also suppose we could list every Wonder, and link it to a RL Civ, and see if we can find a relationship.

@ Bleys - Of course you could.

Now back to the OP, this approach fails to take advantage of the agressive trait, but it otherwise spot on. Trade in that mounted defense for axes and spears.

The gold, is really the tip of the bronze spear.

The only thing that would make this better is if Attacko spoke with reversed sentence structure, like Yoda.
If your attacking army is Bowmen, frustrated you will be. Good, your melee bonus appears at first! Realize you then that most AI cities, Archers defend. Against Archers, no bonus is gained. Like flies, your Bowmen will die.

Also ... Hammy's Aggressive bonus helps Bowmen not. Free Combat I they skip. Poor synergy, this is!

Better advice: Cover-promoted Axes, your offense will be. (Easy with Aggressive!) Bowmen, your cities will defend. A handful of Cover-promoted Spearmen, your stack defense against mounted troops, if Egypt or Persia your neighbor is.

Attacko must be a post-modernist who embraces intertextualism. I approve of this!

If your attacking army is Bowmen, frustrated you will be. Good, your melee bonus appears at first! Realize you then that most AI cities, Archers defend. Against Archers, no bonus is gained. Like flies, your Bowmen will die.

Also ... Hammy's Aggressive bonus helps Bowmen not. Free Combat I they skip. Poor synergy, this is!

Better advice: Cover-promoted Axes, your offense will be. (Easy with Aggressive!) Bowmen, your cities will defend. A handful of Cover-promoted Spearmen, your stack defense against mounted troops, if Egypt or Persia your neighbor is.


Aaah, Attackos always brightens up my day. This was even better!

yes bowmen are one of the best unique units in the game.

Fact- Bowmen replace the Archer- the first decent unit- that lasts a long time.

Fact- Babylon won't be able to found an early religion- so build bowmen

Fact- Promotion fun, and a unit that negates about 80 percent of others early unique units

Fact- Bowmen and Horsearchers are better than Preatorians and Catapults

Hammy is Org and Agg, those are awesome warrior traits. When he waves his hand to the right and to the left he is showing you his vast empire. But I just cant see how the bowmen can attack cities defended with archers. And I am not sold on the horsemen. Hammy should REX.

You say he cant grab a religion, but he was one of the first kings, and there are his famous Code of Laws. I think he needs to build many cities and then the HG which will basically allow a free specialist in every city under Caste. Defend with bowmen.

Stone Henge is for England.

It's not entirely clear who built stonehenge (some think Celtic druids, though it may be even older than they were) - but it wasn't "England" which didn't exist until thousands of years later. Whoever it was, they were then conquered or absorbed by a range of peoples including the Celts, the French (Normans), the Vikings (Danes), the Germans (Saxons) and varous others. England does happen to own it at the moment though... too bad it's obsolete! :D

It's not entirely clear who built stonehenge (some think Celtic druids, though it may be even older than they were) - but it wasn't "England" which didn't exist until thousands of years later. Whoever it was, they were then conquered or absorbed by a range of peoples including the Celts, the French (Normans), the Vikings (Danes), the Germans (Saxons) and varous others. England does happen to own it at the moment though... too bad it's obsolete! :D

You mean the barbarians built it?

One time on here I suggested that the Celts built it and got slammed hard for it.:confused:

Yeah, Stonehenge was built by Neolithic people as a.... well as a stone henge. Celts came in the Bronze Age, which makes Stonehenge all the more awesome when you consider they had no metal tools. That's why they couldn't axe rush Scotland and take over Britain...

Sounds like it was barbs that built it then! (or even a "random event" done by aliens...!)

"A being of pure divine light comes to the city of Scrobbyscir. It offers to release the power of the ancestors. Do we welcome it?

-Yes! Let it do its thing! (Stonehenge built)
-No! Kill it and sell the autopsy video! (+2 :-) in all cities, +550 gold)

yes bowmen are one of the best unique units in the game.

Fact- Bowmen replace the Archer- the first decent unit- that lasts a long time.


Warriors are the first decent unit. Scouts are the second. Bowmen are the third decent unit (assuming you decide to skip Bronze Working in favor of Archery).


Fact- Babylon won't be able to found an early religion- so build bowmen


This is untrue. I have founded early religions as Babylon. I don't reccommend it because you have to ignore other priorities in order to do so, but it is certainly possible.


Fact- Promotion fun, and a unit that negates about 80 percent of others early unique units


Please recall that negating 80% of other unit types does not mean negating 80% of other units. There's a reason why Quecha are so astoundingly powerful even though they "only" offer a bonus against Archers.


Fact- Bowmen and Horsearchers are better than Preatorians and Catapults

Bowmen are certainly better than Praetorians when you are playing with a Babylonian empire. Primarily because the Praetorians are controlled by Rome and you're not playing Rome. I'd still rather have a Praetorian on the march than a Bowman, though.

This is supposed to be funny, right? Except - i cant seem to find the bit thats funny... i dont get it :(

"A being of pure divine light comes to the city of Scrobbyscir. It offers to release the power of the ancestors. Do we welcome it?

-Yes! Let it do its thing! (Stonehenge built)
-No! Kill it and sell the autopsy video! (+2 :-) in all cities, +550 gold)

:lol: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob:

Babylon is good for new players or women.

I didn't realize that civ was a sexist game

I didn't realize that civ was a sexist game


You OBVIOUSLY have not kept up with the literature.

Babylon is good for new players or women.

I find the logic here very reasonable. Babylon holds everything a female civver would need: Flowers (UB), early defense (Bowmen) to keep the kids safe, a calm and female civ colour, and a leader with a well-groomed beard. All in all, I would think the civ is merely included to make civ appeal to larger parts of the female audience.

Fact: Babylon was included to appeal to the female users, whereas Celtia was included to appeal to the male users

I wonder when the "Attacko's Take on Boudica's Attributes" comes out...

Maybe he could draw a Venn diagram showing Boudica's finest attributes.

ParadigmShifter, as Troy has already stated, Venn diagrams should only be used in multiples of two. Hence, we'd need a Venn diagram for each of Boudicas (two) finest attributes. I will let Troy or Attacko draw them as I am no doubt unworthy of calculating that fine details in the game.

EDIT: I came up with the basic shape I think the Venn diagram should have:
http://www.louisianavoices.org/images/edu_venn_diagram_blank.gif

I am aware that it should be coloured and have details on it, but as I said, I'll leave that to Troy.

I think he means the number of sets in the Venn diagram should be a multiple of 2, because
of something to do with binary.

However:

a) Shouldn't that be a power of 2 and not a multiple of 2?
b) Why is the universal set not counted as a set in the Venn diagram? Is it not a set? Oh look, it is a set. That's why it has the word "set" in its name. ;)

I feel we are dragging this thread away from the main point, but I have some comments on the subject of Venn diagrams:

Counting the mutual sets and the universal set, it is impossible to reach an amount of set that is a power of 2, as there will always be an uneven amount of sets.

A Venn diagram with 2 basic sets has 3 sets,
A Venn diagram with 3 basic sets has 7 sets,
A Venn diagram with 4 basic sets has 13 sets,
A Venn diagram with 5 basic sets has 21 sets,
A Venn diagram with 6 basic sets has 31 sets,
A Venn diagram with 7 basic sets has 43 sets,
A Venn diagram with 8 basic sets has 57 sets,
A Venn diagram with 9 basic sets has 73 sets,
A Venn diagram with 10 basic sets has 101 sets,
andsoforth.

This is counting that all set combinations exist, which is what I believe is true. If there is any Venn diagram expert out there (Attacko!), please do correct me if I am wrong.

Not all combinations need to exist (i.e intersections could be the empty set, a set could be a proper subset of another, etc.).

With 1 set A and the universal set there are 2 sets, E (can't do the universal set squiggly E here) and A which is a proper subset of E.

With 2 sets A and B you can have 3 sets (E, A and B which is a proper subset of A i.e. A intersect B is the set A itself) or you can have the case where A and B are disjoint so A intersect B is the empty set, or 4 sets (E, A, B, and A intersect B).

That's just the simple case where neither A and B are themselves the universal set, and A is not the same set as B.

Hope that clears things up.

EDIT: One thing I wouldn't mind Attacko explaining, if we have 2 sets, one which contains all sets which contain themselves as a subset, and another which contains all sets which do not contain themselves, will this naive set theory model be consistent with regards to Peano arithmetic? Or is a set which can contain itself as a member not in fact a set but a class?

I feel we are dragging this thread away from the main point, but I have some comments on the subject of Venn diagrams:

Counting the mutual sets and the universal set, it is impossible to reach an amount of set that is a power of 2, as there will always be an uneven amount of sets.

A Venn diagram with 2 basic sets has 3 sets,



This is not quite right. Each object can potentially be
A) a member of the set (or)
B) not a member of the set.

Given 1 set Alpha, all objects are put into 2 categories: Member Alpha or not-Member Alpha.

Given 2 sets, Alpha and Beta, all objects will be put into 4 categories.
1 Member Alpha/Member Beta
2 Member Alpha/not-Member Beta
3 not-Member Alpha/Member Beta
4 not-Member Alpha/not-member Beta

This trend continues with more sets available. I think that you were leaving out the not-member for all sets when you made your list of options on the first two and then your later ones were just completely wrong. Just keep in mind that for each set, the only options at this level are "member" or "not-member" and you'll see that it must end up with powers of two.

Edit: Just to state it explicitly, I'm leaving out sets of sets because recursion is what makes some reasonable folks argue that set theory isn't properly a branch of mathematics at all because it leads to inherent problems of paradox. Goedel, Escher and Bach is a very good and very readable book on this subject and a quick look at the liar's paradox on Wikipedia should give a decent introduction to the problem (as would a google search on "sets which contain themselves").

Edit the Second:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_paradox
link to the Wikipedia article that has a neat explanation on this issue. Completely unnecessary to understand Venn diagrams, but very necessary if someone wants to argue with me that there are more options in set theory than "Member" vs. "not-Member"

Cross posted with popejubal I guess. I was hinting at the difference between a set and a class in my edit.

Venn diagrams aren't that useful anyway because there are only so many interactions you can show between sets in 2d space. If we move to higher dimensions I think we are still limited by the kissing number of hyperspheres I believe. Even then, many higher dimensional kissing numbers are not yet known exactly, only a lower bound, which as everyone knows is

k >= RiemannZetaFunction(n) / power(2, n-1)

where k is the n dimensional kissing number.

I see, thanks for clearing that out. Now we just need Attacko to actually use a Venn diagram here...

I am going to make a Venn diagram TODAY, no matter what anyone else says! HAHAHAH!

Ok, I made a diagram, showing the difference and similarities between men, women, Babylon, and Waffles. I apologize for blurriness- if all else fails blame poor psyche or poor aura or whatever.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/237/attackoattacks.jpg (http://img27.imageshack.us/my.php?image=attackoattacks.jpg)

I think he means the number of sets in the Venn diagram should be a multiple of 2, because
of something to do with binary.

However:

a) Shouldn't that be a power of 2 and not a multiple of 2?
b) Why is the universal set not counted as a set in the Venn diagram? Is it not a set? Oh look, it is a set. That's why it has the word "set" in its name. ;)


Don't forget the empty set, ParadigmShifter! :p

CHEESE,

Red text on purple is impossible to read once the image is compressed. :(

Apologies to teh extreme- I forgot about the law of advanced purplism.

Don't forget the empty set, ParadigmShifter! :p

The empty set is there in a Venn diagram of course, it's a member of the Universal Set ;)

Presumably the posted Venn diagram uses fuzzy-logic hence why the text isn't readable.

The empty set is there in a Venn diagram of course, it's a member of the Universal Set ;)

Presumably the posted Venn diagram uses fuzzy-logic hence why the text isn't readable.

One of the things that absolutely blew my mind during college was the fact that some girls were willing make out with me just because I didn't treat them like garbage.

One of the other things that blew my mind during college was the fact that there are things that can't actually be put into a Venn diagram. I wonder if Troy knows about these things.

Apologies to teh extreme- I forgot about the law of advanced purplism.

Didn't you ever go to school? :p

Babylon is good for new players or women.

This the post where I completely lost it.

Good show, lad.

Maybe we need Moonsinger and Misotu to give Attacko a good civ kicking.

Now I think about Venn diagrams I'm not sure the universal set is in fact a set but a proper class instead (since I don't think a set can contain all other sets and still remain a set). I think my high school teacher may have been telling porkies. Perhaps Attacko can clear this up for us.

'Maybe we need Moonsinger and Misotu to give Attacko a good civ kicking.'

lol. one thing is for certain- you'd need at least two probably four to make it even.
Mudslinger, Mr Mitshu? never heard of them, but average civ4 players are not any big deal for ol Attacko.:scan:

Didn't you ever go to school? :p

No. I live in a box on the street, and acquired a laptop by donations for my juggling skills. I am, however, an expert on advanced telepathic psychology.

ParadigmShifter,

The Universal Set is certainly a set. It is a union of sets - not a collection of sets, as such.

Venn diagrams or set diagrams are diagrams that show all hypothetically possible logical relations between a finite collection of sets (groups of things). Venn diagrams were conceived around 1880 by John Venn. They are used in many fields, including set theory, probability, logic, statistics, and computer science.

holypedia

Tesla, John Venn-like theories applied to Civ4 via the Attacko method.
The electric connections made can be rerouted by adjusting settings such as clicking off sid tips and the blue city circle suggestion.

Likewise a good attack is based on confusing the enemy- ie cutting off troop supply roads so you don't have to fight four hundred and fifty two archers.

The empty set is there in a Venn diagram of course, it's a member of the Universal Set ;)

Presumably the posted Venn diagram uses fuzzy-logic hence why the text isn't readable.

"Hence why"? ;)

LOL @ cheese venn diagram :goodjob:

Venn diagrams or set diagrams are diagrams that show all hypothetically possible logical relations between a finite collection of sets (groups of things). Venn diagrams were conceived around 1880 by John Venn. They are used in many fields, including set theory, probability, logic, statistics, and computer science.

Like so many other things, you got this one wrong as well. Use of graphic representations to make logic more understandable was going on for centuries (possibly millenia) before John Venn. He does deserve some credit based on his paper that popularized (but did not originate) the specific idea of using shapes to categorize objects as being possible members of 1 or more sets. Often, those shapes are circles, but not when 4 or more sets need to be represented on a 2 dimensional surface.

Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venn_diagram (the site that troytheface plagurized with his quote, "Venn diagrams or set diagrams are diagrams that show all hypothetically possible logical relations between a finite collection of sets (groups of things). Venn diagrams were conceived around 1880 by John Venn. They are used in many fields, including set theory, probability, logic, statistics, and computer science." for a very nice example of how to make a Venn diagram with more than three categories on a flat surface.


Likewise a good attack is based on confusing the enemy- ie cutting off troop supply roads so you don't have to fight four hundred and fifty two archers.

Wow, this is just wrong on so many levels.
First of all, most people play single player most of the time, so it might be handy to mention sometimes that your advice is strictly for multiplayer and that it does nothing against the AI. You can't confuse the computer. You can mislead it and you can misdirect it and you can outthink it, but you can't confuse it.
Second, cutting off supply roads is not confusing to the enemy. It's inconvenient and disruptive, but it's not confusing. Many of your other tactics are confusing, but that's because they are stupid. (Like moving a bunch of Scouts up to a city because you think your opponent is dumb enough to drag his assault force away from its target to deal with the "threat" that the scouts present.)
Third, if you don't want to have to fight four hundred and fifty two Archers, then DON'T CUT THE SUPPLY LINES. If you cut the supply lines, then the opponent can ONLY build resourceless units like Archers. If you do not cut the supply lines, you will face fewer archers because the opponent can build Axes, Swords, etc. as well. I do think that cutting supply lines is a good idea, but it's not because you will face fewer Archers. It's because you will face MORE Archers and fewer of the other units.

It bothers me that so many of your stupid ideas seem accidental. It's as if you are putting together something that you want to sound smart with stupid things in there as a form of entertainment, but the things that you sprinkle in to make the article appear smart are just as foolish as the intentionally foolish ideas.

No. I live in a box on the street, and acquired a laptop by donations for my juggling skills. I am, however, an expert on advanced telepathic psychology.

Did your copy of Civ come with the donations?

"Hence why"? ;)

sorry, I meant "whence" of course.

Re: the universal set - the set of all sets can't be a set without encountering Russel's paradox.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_of_all_sets

No. I live in a box on the street, and acquired a laptop by donations for my juggling skills. I am, however, an expert on advanced telepathic psychology.
Do you know my friend Weasal? Hes a mime in NYC. He also wears kilts. He is . . . disturbed but one of the coolest gamers I know, LOL.

"the quote plagerized...."

lol. it was cited moron boy.

"you can't confuse the computer"

lol.. the term refernces making enemy units lose cooridination. (ie routes)
"Confuse" the enemiy peices in chess...ie- hinder their ability to support one another.

"It bothers me that so many of your stupid ideas seem accidental"

lol. i am sorry ideas bother you.

Did your copy of Civ come with the donations?

No, that was with the alien's help. Long story.

Seems you could gear the game towards any one of the great people - make a great artist civ for example.

sorry, I meant "whence" of course.

Re: the universal set - the set of all sets can't be a set without encountering Russel's paradox.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_of_all_sets

Yes but the universal set is not the set of all sets, unless the definition changed recently, and wikipedia is not really a valid source for claiming such a change.

"A contains B" does not mean the same as "B is a member of A", although even mathematicians are often lazy enough to not make the distinction clear in conversation.

"A contains B" means every element of B is necessarily an element of A. i.e. B is a subset of A (whether a strict subset or not is not important).

"B is a member of A" means A is a class and it has at least one set as one of its members (the set B).

The Universal Set is often denoted by the Greek letter Omega, particularly in Probability.

yes, subsets are not "members".

they do however, explain everythiong that algebra can - and more.

in regard to Civ4 it explains how a bowmen and organized can be the superior.

You guys have lost me here.

digression from the topic. However, suffice to say that if B is in A it does not mean B likes A, nor does it mean A invited B to anything.

Yes but it is expected B will buy A breakfast.

Well little spoilt miss A will get a darn good suprise, won't she?

You are all sets maniacs.

If B is in A did he have to Euler first?

lol

It depends whether A was real or imaginary. In either case it would be complex of course. :p

in strategical terms-

A= Civ4 (mechanics- psychology-(ie theory)
B=Babylonian Empire (mechanics- psychology-(ie theory)
C=Bowmen/Garden...Organized/ Aggressive
D=Player's Psychological/Environmental make-up

In Venn Diagram terms (4 not three-note-) the Babylonian Maneuver is merely an analysis of an actual Attacko game. (see "Attacko's Best 100 Games")

remember - don't put the cart before the horse- movement and response to catastrophism and luck (circumstance?) are more important than analysis when ramming War Elephants down your opponent's throat.

Real nice. This thread should be relocated to the off topic jokes/humor section.

in strategical terms-

A= Civ4 (mechanics- psychology-(ie theory)
B=Babylonian Empire (mechanics- psychology-(ie theory)
C=Bowmen/Garden...Organized/ Aggressive
D=Player's Psychological/Environmental make-up

In Venn Diagram terms (4 not three-note-) the Babylonian Maneuver is merely an analysis of an actual Attacko game. (see "Attacko's Best 100 Games")

remember - don't put the cart before the horse- movement and response to catastrophism and luck (circumstance?) are more important than analysis when ramming War Elephants down your opponent's throat.

You have just disproved everything I ever thought I knew. There is no point in existence now. I cannot believe you would do such a thing to me. I hate you, and I hate Attacko, and I hate your diagrams, and I hate most of all your ruthless, merciless LOGIC! I will never speak to you again until you come out with something funny.

My head hurts from reading this thread :lol:

Fact - You should be wearing adequate head protection when reading this thread. A hard hat or bicycle helmet would suffice. Failure to follow this warning while reading this thread can result in head hurting or in more severe cases temporary or permanent brain damage.

Fact - The easiest way to implement Attacko's method is by declaring war and deleting every single unit you have. The AI will try to evaluate the strength of your empire by finding the average strength of your units. Of course, in doing so it will divide by zero causing it to crash and lose.

Fact - As demonstrated above, italicising random words does not strengthen any argument.

Fact - Definition: Catastrophism
The name coined by William Whewell in 1837 to describe a view in geology championed by Hutton that the rate and mechanisms of past geological change are dramatically different than those of today. More recently it has been used to refer to 'episodic' or 'quantum' evolutionary processes, and to scientific models that requires extremely large scale change to account for past developments. It is wrongly applied to the punctuated equilibrium theory of Gould and Eldredge, which involves variable rates but not dramatically distinct causes. See Uniformitarianism. (source: http://www.biologie.uni-hamburg.de/b-online/e36_talk/precursors/glossary.html)

Fact - troytheface think's he's hilarious but he's not.

Fact - You should be wearing adequate head protection when reading this thread. A hard hat or bicycle helmet would suffice. Failure to follow this warning while reading this thread can result in head hurting or in more severe cases temporary or permanent brain damage.

Fact - The easiest way to implement Attacko's method is by declaring war and deleting every single unit you have. The AI will try to evaluate the strength of your empire by finding the average strength of your units. Of course, in doing so it will divide by zero causing it to crash and lose.

Fact - As demonstrated above, italicising random words does not strengthen any argument.

Fact - Definition: Catastrophism
The name coined by William Whewell in 1837 to describe a view in geology championed by Hutton that the rate and mechanisms of past geological change are dramatically different than those of today. More recently it has been used to refer to 'episodic' or 'quantum' evolutionary processes, and to scientific models that requires extremely large scale change to account for past developments. It is wrongly applied to the punctuated equilibrium theory of Gould and Eldredge, which involves variable rates but not dramatically distinct causes. See Uniformitarianism. (source: http://www.biologie.uni-hamburg.de/b-online/e36_talk/precursors/glossary.html)


How dare you. You are just like them all, aren't you?! Just a crusher of dreams, destroyer of hopes, killer of thoughts, just like the rest of em. You, sir, are the ultimate evil. Why don't you just put the cereal in the jar and be done with it???!!?!??!?!?

Fact - Definition: Catastrophism
The name coined by William Whewell in 1837 to describe a view in geology championed by Hutton that the rate and mechanisms of past geological change are dramatically different than those of today. More recently it has been used to refer to 'episodic' or 'quantum' evolutionary processes, and to scientific models that requires extremely large scale change to account for past developments. It is wrongly applied to the punctuated equilibrium theory of Gould and Eldredge, which involves variable rates but not dramatically distinct causes. See Uniformitarianism. (source: http://www.biologie.uni-hamburg.de/b-online/e36_talk/precursors/glossary.html)

I forgot my helmet and thus this ensued :hammer2:

thank you for the comments and also for copying the writing style.

like most great innovators, being copied is the norm

Fact- One of the best strategies on the board

Fact- One Attacko with a manuever is equal to twelve civfanatics playing boudica of rome

Fact- Failure to understand a Venn is not the same as failure to execute a Venn

Fact- "The shortest road to victory in Civ4? lol , it sure as hell ain't cottages or reloading"- Attacko 2007

Fact - You should be wearing adequate head protection when reading this thread. A hard hat or bicycle helmet would suffice. Failure to follow this warning while reading this thread can result in head hurting or in more severe cases temporary or permanent brain damage.
I highly recommend the Tin Foil Hat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_Foil_Hat), since then you and troy will both be wearing one!

Fact- "The shortest road to victory in Civ4? lol , it sure as hell ain't cottages or reloading"- Attacko 2007

Being serious for a moment, why would you want to take the shortest path to victory? What fun is that? I play Civ4 to play out the entire span of the game, not to win in 50 A.D. What fun is it to make a crapload of Bowmen, and go and murder everyone before the A.D.'s? You don't gain anything from that except large numbers on a screen that nobody but you will see. I like to do diplomacy, to make wars, to feel what its like to take an empire from 4000 B.C. and turn it into a leading global superpower in the modern era. And yes to do that, your going to need cottages, as in RL, thats what founded empires, not going around conquering everyone. If you actually look at history, which you tend to reference a lot, all the empires that went around conquering, ended up losing it all really fast (Roman Empire, Mongol Empire, etc.). The game (I find) isn't about winning really fast, its about giving you the feeling of managing a large empire over time and having fun at the same time.

yes, you make good points.

which is why there is "Attacko's Guide to War for Cottage Building Females and Homosexual Civ4 Players".

It goes over the finer points of household-like management and drapery.

Warned for flaming.

yes, you make good points.

which is why there is "Attacko's Guide to War for Cottage Building Females and Homosexual Civ4 Players".

It goes over the finer points of household-like management and drapery.

Yes, lets see if you could be even more insulting. Deal with it, your not funny (look, even in a language you can understand)

Was that language English con grammatical errors? ;)

If this is what you mean :D

If this is what you mean :D

I think we are on the same page. :)

:goodjob:

10char

yes, you make good points.

which is why there is "Attacko's Guide to War for Cottage Building Females and Homosexual Civ4 Players".

It goes over the finer points of household-like management and drapery.

It's good to stick to your strengths.

And where is the guide? My homosexual friends and female acquaintances would like to read it. :)

I love Troy. He keeps this board from a monotonous drone of cottages, specialists, and axe rushes, an basically lightens the tone of the whole board. Plus, he's funny. :p

yes, you make good points.

which is why there is "Attacko's Guide to War for Cottage Building Females and Homosexual Civ4 Players".

It goes over the finer points of household-like management and drapery.

Why would homosexuals and women play the game any differently? What a misogynistic, homophobic, bigoted attempt at humor. Maybe attacko should write a strategy guide for blacks, jews, mexicans, and muslims next?

Serious mode-ON.

Yeah, troy, can we stop this slide toward more base and unwitty humor, and get back to amphibious war elephants and the like?

That's enough spam.

Troy, I have just thought of an idea which Attacko could use to make a great guide.
Why not attack the computer at April 1st, and do something confusing, then say "April fools!", which will cause him to be angry that the player fooled him and crash?

Wait, was this supposed to be locked?

Fact- The Babylonian Manuever is not locked

Fact- This tactic has been proven by countless games and verfied by hundreds of top level players

Fact- This tactic has been proven by countless games and verfied by hundreds of top level players

Yes. Proven by "countless games and verified by hundreds of top level players" that it's stupid. ;)

Hahahahahahaha! April Fool's!


Finally I got him to say it.

AAAARGH! THE ANTICHRIST!

Huh? I didn't see that.

It would have been funnier if it was preceded by some perfectly normal and reasonable advice, though.

Huh? I didn't see that.

Troy never said that, but as you can see you can type anything you want here and it looks like somebody else said it. :D

10characters

Figures. I have mockingly (all in good fun, of course) summarized people like that before, but for some reason forgot that anyone would question the great Attacko.

While making up phrases in a quote box and attributing them to someone else is an interesting notion, it does make writing top rate civ4 articles more a task.

however, undaunted by the the whimpering liars that reload alot i would also suggest....

Fact- In multiplayer there are alot of civs chosen with melee uu's
Fact- Organized, Aggressive = Bowmen at War
Fact- No resources- no worry- road to kill
Fact- You should build on strategic resources to end headaches

Fact- Organized, Aggressive = Bowmen at War
Fact- The Aggressive trait does not help Bowmen. Not even a little bit. So why do you keep mentioning it?

" Army composition is Chariots/Horse Archers, and Bowmen"
from, "Attacko's Babylonian Manuever"

Dissecting an interaction of traits is an interesting notion, however, i fail to see how it is relevant.

" Army composition is Chariots/Horse Archers, and Bowmen"
from, "Attacko's Babylonian Manuever"
Fact- The Aggressive trait does not help Chariots or Horse Archers, either.

Dissecting an interaction of traits is an interesting notion, however, i fail to see how it is relevant.
Well, I was basing my reply on your assertion that:
Fact- Organized, Aggressive = Bowmen at War

So I logically assumed that those two traits -- Organized and Aggressive -- had something to do with using Bowmen to wage war. Or were you just making a non sequitur?

Actually, I can think of one way in which Aggressive helps Bowmen, Chariots, and Horse Archers. Aggressive makes your Barracks cheaper, which will help to boost all of your land-based military units. But I think that's an indirect benefit.

So what exactly is your strategy? Could you possibly play through a sample game with the Babylonian Maneuver so we could see your strategy in action? So far, your "strategy" seems to look like a mere list of Babylon's strengths, combined with some random assertions about Horse Archers. How does it all work together?

So I logically assumed that those two traits -- Organized and Aggressive -- had something to do with using Bowmen to wage war.

Conventional logic is helpless when dealing with Attacko's strategic wisdom. However, Attacko's points can be understood in the context of chaos theory and Venn diagrams.

I dunno, I studied chaos theory in my degree and his posts still don't make any sense ;)

Organized- Civic upkeep reduced 50 percent. ...more troops affordable earlier

Aggressive- Barracks time to build in half

In essence, cheap archer uu with two techs. there is a sub chapter somewhere
"Barracks First Build" which allows for Bowmen and chariots promoted- hitting barbarians and animals and getting more promoted at a very early stage of the game.

Don't forget that Hammurabi's beard has great synergy with philosophy, thus making the Babylonian maneuver that much more deadly.

Fact - Gilgamesh's beard is the superior

Fact - Gilgamesh has a "brass beard"--it's like brass knuckles, but for your beard.

Fans of Attacko's guide should be aware of a hilarious new development.

There is a food site called www.rivercottage.net it has recipes and food related forums.

Guess who has an account there? http://community.rivercottage.net/users/attacko/qsasked

:lol:

Attacko cant stand the very concept of cottages even outside of Civ!

Fact - Gilgamesh's beard is the superior

Yes, but who has the best hat. Cathy is pretty sharp in hers, but Charlemenge has a crown. Thats pretty jammin.

Fact - Charlemange looks like the Burger King, suggesting early research of AH is the superiior.

Fans of Attacko's guide should be aware of a hilarious new development.

There is a food site called www.rivercottage.net it has recipes and food related forums.

Guess who has an account there? http://community.rivercottage.net/users/attacko/qsasked

:lol:

Attacko cant stand the very concept of cottages even outside of Civ!

Attacko's avatar is a chicken !?!? :eek:

Yes, but who has the best hat. Cathy is pretty sharp in hers, but Charlemenge has a crown. Thats pretty jammin.

That proves that Hereditary Rule is suited for Charlemagne while Cathy is best used for spamming Privateers (Pirates!).

yes, i suggest seemingly innocuous visual clues does lend one tactical insight. Without anything other than the icons and visual information one can win the game.

a boudica or a catherine for example- the warrior woman and the smart warrior women (hence the garb) but without any other information one could assess that Asoka is not a killer in his robe, Montezuma looks ready to attack.

this information is outside of the babylonian manuever however.

Win which game? Space Invaders? Please specify the game.

Win which game? Space Invaders? Please specify the game.

I believe this is the game he was referring to.

I thought it was this one?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510N74YAM8L._SL500_AA280_.jpg

You just lost the game.

I thought it was this one?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510N74YAM8L._SL500_AA280_.jpg

Probably both.

"Game designers unconsciuosly rely on psychological and visual clues more telling then rationalized desicions, note the color scheme and strange unique unit the Bowmen"

even in satrical retort the truth shines forth like a baleful star on a solemn night.
The Hello kiddie and Babylonian Civ share the same color.
this is indicative of the proposed theory and shows an underlying admission of agreement.

So Hello Kitty is a bloodthirsty killer?

And an amazing Civ player.

And a megolamanical tyrant.

And an amphibious war elephant.

Well KMadCandy is a HoF quattromaster and she has the Hello Kitty game ;)

yes, i suggest seemingly innocuous visual clues does lend one tactical insight. Without anything other than the icons and visual information one can win the game.

a boudica or a catherine for example- the warrior woman and the smart warrior women (hence the garb)


The outfit is a definte clue as to when to time your strike.


but without any other information one could assess that Asoka is not a killer in his robe, Montezuma looks ready to attack.

this information is outside of the babylonian manuever however.

Asoka is a killer. Any Organized leader is a killer.

meant Ghandi. the Indian. Unless Asoka is indian too, in which case i am correct and he is a pushover as well.

Fact- Captured Indian wrker = 2 regular wrkers in venn theory

Fact- Bad at defending, supplying retreating and no military unique unit to save them

Fact- Builder civ - waiting is not the superior- kill fast and chop with stolen fast wrkers

Fact- Babylonian Manuever is almost an exploit against India

troy, dosen't seem like you play a lot of civ. B/C in my experience, I've seen Asoka become a massive military power, to the point in which they actually surpassed me (and just about every other civ on the planet (I was the top dog :D )), and out of fear of invasion I actually had to become friends with him. Just because his UU dosen't lend him any military power, dosen't mean he can't become one.

meant Ghandi. the Indian. Unless Asoka is indian too, in which case i am correct and he is a pushover as well.

I really don't know how to describe that comment. Racist?

I really don't know how to describe that comment. Racist?

Its troy, he dosen't like anyone except himself, elephants, Attacko, and apparently Pink Babylonian Bowmen :lol: .

Yes, i understand many may be young or play at a low level so i will try to explain it simply.

kill india early and steal wrkers

letting builder civs grow is not a good idea

don't focus on building a cottage, focus on killing the enemy

this is the superior

If you actually want to help people, you have to stop insulting them.

Stealing their workers does not give you their UU, its just an ordinary worker

I know its not a good idea, I actually play civ

Why would I want to only focus on killing the enemy? The game was designed in mind that the player can do what he wishes, and win in that way. If I want to cottage build and peacefully expand, I can do that b/c civ gives me that option. If I just wanted to go around and kill everyone, every single game, I'd go and start playing Sins of a Solar Empire again.

Anyways, if you want to prove this "strategy" works to the community, I'd recommend a sample game along with pictures and such, that way you'd actually be taken seriously, which I can see you have a problem with.

thank you for the comments.

at any rate, the event...

Bowyer
Prereq: ARCHERY
Obsolete: NATIONALISM or PRINTING_PRESS or EDUCATION or GUNPOWDER or ASTRONOMY
Active/Weight: 35/50
Result:
1.All your Archery units gain the Combat 1 promotion

also plays in nicley with the Babylonian Maneuver.
Those that withold teching archery are fodder for the superior.

Why would I want to only focus on killing the enemy?

Because all of troys advice is geared toward Multi-player, not Single-player.

Seriously folks, if you're going to feed the troll, dont be so shocked when he keeps coming back for more.

Hey troy, heres a game for you to check out, I used Unrestricted Leaders, and made Churchill of Babylon. PRO + CHA + Bowmen = good, right? Earliest save I have is 3740 BC though, but its good enough. Show us your stuff! Its Emperor, Normal Speed.

I think most of Troy's advice is geared towards message-board playing, not MP or SP. I doubt he's ever done more than read the civilopedia. Proven by the fact he thought stolen fast workers remain fast workers for you. In fact, I doubt he owns the game or he'd at least use worldbuilder to create some false screenshots to back up his claims.

:agree: :thanx:

"Proven by the fact he thought stolen fast workers remain fast workers for you.


twice this lie is mentioned. if liars are lieing around all the time i guess debate has little room. I suggest that those that prefer liars advice stay away from attacko articles and listen to either liars or stupid people with low reading comprehension skills.

"Fact- Captured Indian wrker = 2 regular wrkers in venn theory"

i guess this means to some "a captured indian wrker gives you a fast wrker" to those that can't understand an english sentence well.

Oh, then troy, what does "Fact- Captured Indian wrker = 2 regular wrkers" mean for all of us "liars or stupid people with low reading comprehension skills"?

I usually have fun with Troy, but I'm irritated today. I'm telling you, this guy doesn't own civ, has never played civ, and only read about it on the net.

Fact-Captured Indian worker is absolutely the same as captured regular worker. Try playing the game Troy. No lying here:

http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt335/pbwfed/Civ4ScreenShot0000-1.jpg

http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt335/pbwfed/Civ4ScreenShot0001-1.jpg

http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt335/pbwfed/Civ4ScreenShot0002-1.jpg

http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt335/pbwfed/Civ4ScreenShot0003-2.jpg

I know Tro(ll)y is all fun and games (I guess) but I had a horrible day at work and I just don't feel like being called a liar, even by a troll.

:thanx: :agree: again; troy has been really insulting lately.

"Fact- Captured Indian wrker = 2 regular wrkers" (left out ... in venn theory")

misquoted yet again, but not suprised.
it is simple. people who project- then lie then think they are right, see it all the time- dime a dozen.
Go through the post. I have been called a "troll" and yet it is i that have been "insulting" lol.

"No lying here: "

lol. - this is yet another. since you don't know "this guy" and since there is no way you could acertain ownership then it is at best a guess. Once again an irritated liar lieing about lieing.

See, Attacko doesn't say that a captured Fast Worker remains a fast worker, he says that in venn theory, captured Indian worker = two regular workers. These are two different things.

And in some ways, it does. Stealing a worker not only adds one to your total, it subtracts one from the AI you stole it from, hence, a 2-worker swing. Of course, this is true of ANY worker stolen.

"Fact- Captured Indian wrker = 2 regular wrkers" (left out ... in venn theory")

misquoted yet again, but not suprised.
it is simple. people who project- then lie then think they are right, see it all the time- dime a dozen.
Go through the post. I have been called a "troll" and yet it is i that have been "insulting" lol.

"No lying here: "

lol. - this is yet another. since you don't know "this guy" and since there is no way you could acertain ownership then it is at best a guess. Once again an irritated liar lieing about lieing.

You don't think you've been insulting? What a dick move. I'm sorry troy, I can't hold it in any longer. So far today you have called me juvenile, low-level civ player, a liar, stupid, claimed I have low reading comprehension, etc. I just can't take it any more, there is no talking to you, you think your funny, YOUR NOT. I'll try to start a discussion with you, but you just take me down with insults asserting your better. Maybe I want to try this strategy, but if I ask a question about it, you can't give me a reasonable answer except calling me a female and a homosexual (not that they're bad, but that he uses them as if they are insults). I know your probably going to take this comment, dissect it and make fun of each part individually as you do on a regular basis, but troy, just stop, before you post, think about what your saying. Is it helpful or are you just spamming the forums with more nonsense and insults? Think about it troy.

This has gone on long enough.

Closed.