Bleys had an idea for this thread which I found good. All interested in the 18 civs map, from Settler to Diety, could (hopefully) get good advice here. Our objective is to have several players (preferably 17+) take reports on each 18 civ civ EXCEPT ROME. Please, if there are no restrictions, play the game fully. When you have finished, write your title (ex. Toku, Monarch, Epic). Then write your report. Please write your report in spoilers-
Like this

For example:
Toku, Settler, Quick
I played as Toku on settler. I settled in place:
(pic) and then did blah. Qin did blah. Blah. I won a space race victory in 1 AD. My strategy was to.......... I would(n't) recommend this civ because....

Reports may be brief or long as you wish, so long they are in spoilers. If time is on your side, write an epic report complete with a plethora of pictures. If you have to get on the plane in two hours, write a short strategy guide for your civ.

Enjoy! Hope people teach and learn from this idea.




ORIGINAL POST: (you may still reply to this if you wish)
What is the best civ, in start, space, UU, and UB for Earth Eighteen? EXCLUDING ROME please. I just started out Monarch on Earth 18, and want less of a challenge (till I can win as HC :crazyeye:) other than Rome.

BtS version btw.

Well, Neal has played quite a few games on the Earth 18 map (he's on game #7).

For me personally I can imagine that Frederick would be a good choice. Berlin has a good starting spot and he can soon nab London, Paris, Madrid, and Rome. All of which are chock full of resources.

Egypt and China can be powerhouses too I believe.

Hatshepsut.

Fredric or louis or alex or isabella can all take out europe with warriors and win from there...

My problem with Hatty is the hellish health crush. I always stagnate in 3000 BC because of the what- 10 flood tiles? It's crazy! How could I get out of the plague pains?

Oyzar, roughly how many warriors do you think it takes to get an archer down?

I plan on China or Germany next.

My personal favorite for a conquest-type game is Japan. You have a practically unassailable powerhouse production core, more great, fertile land in east Asia, and you can really kick your war machine into high gear once Samurai come along. The UB is crap but, well, what are you gonna do?

I made some mistakes in the Tokugawa KotW, but even so, you can see in there what a monster Japan can be.

My problem with Hatty is the hellish health crush. I always stagnate in 3000 BC because of the what- 10 flood tiles? It's crazy! How could I get out of the plague pains?

Oyzar, roughly how many warriors do you think it takes to get an archer down?

I plan on China or Germany next.

The AI doesn't start with archery at any level on the earth map, as such they only have warriors...

Persia- Settle your capitol 1 tile north and you've got yourself a great production city and great place to do an immortal rush, which can really boost you ahead early game.

China- Resources, Resources, Resources!!!

Germany- Great production land, and lots of room for expansion

Aztecs- Great production land in Mexico, and if you make it too the midwest before America does you get even better land

I'm pretty sure there are others, just I can't remember the last time I played 18 civs, I play 34 civs now and I don't really remember what civs are in 18, though the ones I listed are really great starts that I played in 18 when I did play it.

Germany. You start with mining, you have copper, you have useful economic traits after you seized Europe with a rush. I'm not even sure Rome has it easier...

EXCLUDING ROME please. I just started out Monarch on Earth 18, and want less of a challenge (till I can win as HC :crazyeye:) other than Rome.
Have you tried Rome?

LOL, sorry mate, couldnt resist, especially since I just had the time of my life ripping through Europe with those ridiculous Praets that capture 5 AI Capitols before 1 AD. It was the first time I had played that scenario since I was Prince level, and the very first time I played it as JC. Incredibly fun, I am planning to try it again very soon, Immortal-Marathon.

In other words, I am interested in the information you gather in this thread. I actually did a sort of "random multi-civ scenario" thing called the PYL (Pick Your Leader) where players chose one of 7 leaders on a single, common map. Its cool to see the variances of various leaders. The Earth 18 Civs map is sort of like this, the game differs when the player changes who he plays, Rome and England will have 2 very very different "looks".

Hey, you know what might be a good idea for a thread? An entire thread devoted solely to this scenario, with people doing reports from the various leaders. Maybe we can even call it "Other Than Rome". I might be onto something here. Gathering a bunch of reports on a specific map has to be a great learning/teaching aid.

Even better, lets do it right in this thread! "Beyond Rome" is catchy! As soon as I finish my SG turn, I will play mine, and edit the report into this thread (see the example for the game I am playing for the series). We run it just like the LHC series (still the best pure series on the boards), folks just do reports in a casual way, with a few guidelines, in spoilers. We all label our spoilers clearly, for example:

"Egypt/Hatty, Emperor level, Epic speed, 4000 BC to 1000 BC"

Place report in /spoilers, as detailed or brief as you wish.Best thing about it, it has a TON of re-playability. You really do get a drastically different game if you take Toku compared to Izzy compared to Roosevelt compared to Monty. Sounds like a thread I would play a few times, maybe just to shamelessly bump it if it starts slipping down the thread-list, heh. Speak up if you think you are going to try one (game + report), so we can see if there is interest.

The AI doesn't start with archery at any level on the earth map, as such they only have warriors...
If you wanted too, though, you COULD hand-World Builder it in. Its not like you are going to spoil the map or anything. They would still start with Warriors (unless you REALLY wanted to go all-out), but they would build Archers. You could also give the Barbs Archery (and more, if you wanted to go higher, AIs get a lot of techs on Immortal and Deity)

That would certainly change things quite a bit.

Rome is an obvious choice, but I think that Germany is even better off than the Romans because Rome starts with Iron and Germany starts with Copper. That means Germany settles in place, builds a Barracks and a couple of Axes and then very soon owns Paris (first) and then Rome (second).

Research Bronze Working first and start the Barracks. Scout wanders around, looking for huts and future conquests. Once you have 2 population, switch to Worker and wait for him to finish naturally (no whip needed). Build yourself a Warrior for Garrison duty (get this done before the Copper is hooked up!) and then finish the Barracks and build yourself another Worker. The Warrior built before Copper is hooked up is nice because you need a garrison unit only for :) in your city and not for any real defense.

After you get Bronze Working, go for Roads, Agriculture, Pottery followed by Masonry and Iron Working (these last two in either order).

The workers can build roads and chop down forests so that you have a few axes from chopped trees and whipping together instead of just whipping and natural production. All Axes should be promoted to City Raider after the first one. That first Axe should be Wood I so that he can start the path to the miracle that is Wood III.

Once you have 2 Axes, you'll be able to take Paris - it's only guarded by Warriors now. You'll want more Axemen than 2, certainly, but 2 is all you really need for France. :) Wait until France builds a Quarry on its marble and Stone before attacking them - after all, it will be a while before you're able to do so, so why not let them do the heavy lifting? Attack Paris and take it - making sure that you get to attack all of France's workers BEFORE you take Paris if they happen to be outside of the city when you are able to do so. Leftover Workers disappear when you take a Civ's last city.

After Paris, let your Axes heal and then go, take out Rome. Even if the Romans have Archers now, you'll have enough Axes by that point to take out the city with no problems. Build a Spearman for stack protection and go take out Spain next. Research Sailing when you have an opportunity to do so and take England (remembering to take an Axeman and the Spearman across the channel FIRST in case you are attacked by an English Chariot). Hopefully Spain founded a religion, so try to make sure your first Great Person is a Great Priest for the Shrine. Spain is a terrible city until you chop down a few trees and irrigate those grasslands. It then becomes an outstanding religious center.

You'll probably have a Great General by the time you finish taking out the Romans, so settle him in either Berlin or Rome. Both cities are production powerhouses and both cities will do extraordinarily well as military centers. Berlin has a little more production while Rome can pump out Naval units. I'd say it's pretty much a toss up. Don't attach him to a unit. Wood III is plenty to keep your units in fighting shape for a long time to come and Wood III is just 10 XP.

You did start out one of your Axes on the path to Wood III early on, didn't you? Don't forget that the Wood III +15% heal rate stacks with the +10% heal rate from :health: promotion ONLY if both promotions are on the same unit. The Wood III Axe should take out easy targets of opportunity when it can do so with little risk until it has that magic combination of Wood III, Medic I for an amazing +25% healing rate. That's getting 6x the normal heal rate in enemy territory that your troops would ordinarily get.

You now have the entire European continent and your economy is still fine because of the stupendously amazing tiles available for your use. The world is your oyster and it's still well before 0 AD. If Temple of Artemis is still available, build it in England. England is off the Europe/Africa/Asia continent, so it will have a +100% bonus to all trade route income to start. Both England and France make amazing GP farms and a city plopped down in Norway/Denmark/Sweden can be a lovely National Park city if you're willing to sit on a less than stellar city until you have Biology (it's not an awful city - just less amazing than the rest of Europe).

BLEYS:


I agree! I won't take part for the while- I need to pass monarch and get up to Emperor. But I agree with that idea and will edit my post.

As long as the AI don't start with archers, any european leader beside liz a can rush all the other leaders in a heartbeat. You can take at least 2 capitals with warriors, and there's copper/iron all over the place.

Persia- Settle your capitol 1 tile north and you've got yourself a great production city and great place to do an immortal rush, which can really boost you ahead early game.



You weren't lying man! I was apprehensive at first when I tried because of the desert tiles but man that is a solid spot. I took out India very quickly with Immortal rush.

I've been playing the Earth 18 Civs maps since I first got CivIV. Let me tell you, there are some solid players on this map. My favourites are India, Egypt, China and virtually any European civ. Europe is so resource thick that you can quickly overcome any problem with extra resources. And each time you discover a new one, Europe is sure to have it. China is really fun if you can pull off the Oracle -> Metal Casting then Pyramids + Forge GE to bulb Machinery trick. Cho-Ko-Nus go unanswered for years and years.

For a OCC, I found that England is really fun if you move your starting Settler 2N2W and build the Moai Statues quick enough.

But yeah, Rome is the easiest due to an overpowered unit.

Who does everyone hate? I'll play that civ.

Edit: PYL isn't dead, Bleys ;). I'm debating between PROs, IMPs, or as many women as possible + a select few.

Who does everyone hate? I'll play that civ.

Probably Mongolia. :)

Also the only leader with a screwed start (Isabella, Mansa Musa, HC...) that Neal hasn't played.

I've played this one a bit--I play on immortal but I go into WB and give any nearby AI archery and a couple of archers so if I rush them I have to earn it. I also try and play as if I don't know the map.

So far I've tried France, Greece, Spain, Arabia, Japan, Inca, USA, Mongols.

I lost the Mongols (China rushed me before I could get to HBR), and USA--I rexed too much and Monte came for me before I was ready. Both of those seem a little challenging--the Mongol lands are weak and not so easy to rush a protective civ, the USA has limited trading opportunities and Monte is a little challenging. I might try that one again and play for an early rush.

Monty can be fun, if you're up for what is basically an isolated start. I think I'll try that.

Probably Mongolia. :)

Also the only leader with a screwed start (Isabella, Mansa Musa, HC...) that Neal hasn't played.

Less than 8 tiles from China, and with the ability to build what is probably the 2nd best UU on the map (or best with fast game speeds) huh. I do so like the mongols, perhaps I'll go that route then.

Less than 8 tiles from China, and with the ability to build what is probably the 2nd best UU on the map (or best with fast game speeds) huh. I do so like the mongols, perhaps I'll go that route then.

Well from an AI perspective. HC and Issy obviously aren't in trouble controlled by humans either... still his base land supposedly sucks, so you'll have to have some fun. :p

I'm pretty sure greece is the hardest. In the game I played with them, Rome Praet rushed France and Germany, so I was nestled between Russia, Persia, and him. Fun.

Germany beats Rome big time ;-p

Conquer Rome before they see any metal. I found happiness issues hard to overcome though. Writing/scientist would be a good solution for the high upkeep/high growth. I couldn't whip anything but more troops ;-) Europe is such an awesome place. ;-)

Funny that this should come up, I just played a game as Liz, Prince, Normal, its not "over" (but its over.)

With Louis' so close by, I chose two routes to deal with my little wonder-whoring neighbor. I settled 2W on the stone to abate Paris' culture a bit and so that I could work 2 cows, a horse, crabs and wheat for fast, fast growth. My immediate tech targets were Sailing, Agriculture and AH, followed by Bronze Working. After getting a work boat, worker and warrior out, I was able to whip a Settler for Aberdeen (1E of Scotland's sheep) which was to be my HE/Moai city, a massive military producer.) Another whip produced a settler for Ireland (probably not a great city location) and I founded Dublin 1S of the sheep. Dublin mostly worked its financial-enhanced water tiles and became a rather-ho-hum city that provided most of my early gold.

With that in place, I aimed for Priesthood, Pottery and Iron Working while I chopped/whipped into the Oracle for a MC slingshot. With Liz's financial trait, I was able to work water tiles (and Aberdeen's fur) to great effect. I got the Oracle and started in on a forge/the colossus in London while Aberdeen pumped swords, a token axe and galleys.

It was all too easy. Paris had built the Great Wall (really? Really, Louis?) so it had absolutely no defense. By that time, I had joined the Buddhist bloc of JC and Issy. Freddy was outcast and my next target. More swords and then chariots (to counter Freddy's axes) made a blitzing attack against Berlin, abating the cultural pressure on Paris and capturing more workers. I had met Cathy and several more members of Saladin's hindu bloc, which Fred had joined during the war. Berlin and Hamburg were my tickets into the infinitely more powerful Hindu fraternity, which would be useful since Madrid's shrine was already in my sights.

The war with Fred slogged on, I managed to beat Cathy (who joined in on the fun) to the southern Scandinavian cities (she managed to take one of those useless tundra cities) and I settled southern Sweeden. I razed a poorly placed city of Freds on the west coast of Norway and resettled along the Baltic Sea, solidifying my hold on the best parts of Scandinavia. Iberia and Italy were next. Paris became my capital to offset the colonial maintenance of Greater Europe.

While Rome fought an impotent war with Greece, I quickly back-stabbed Issy. By this time, I had crossbows online and maces were not far off. The only thing that could have hurt me at this point was Rome's dreaded legions. Maces and X-bows would eliminate that threat as well as superior siege. I switched to Hindu to curry favor with Saladin and his cronies. At this point in time, the game was won. Cathy vassal-ed to me and became a powerful attack dog that I would use in later wars once I attacked the Hindu bloc. That would not happen for some time, however, as I first finished off my conquest of Italy and then took the fight to Hatty, the Jewish outcast.

By now, Saladin had capitulated to Cyrus (so much for Hindu unity) who along with QSH were becoming the other powers on the super continent. To rub it in their face, I renamed England to Europa and began my quest for world domination. Alex and Hatty were easily wiped out, Alex completely and Hatty exiled to South Africa. Mansa cowered in indecision until I took Timbuktu. He immediately knelt to Europe and Africa was mine. At this point, Cathy's army was staggeringly large, and I kept her busy, running her from the Congo to Afghanistan to attack Cyrus' holdings. It was roughly around this point when I stopped - the game was far won. I had tanks, they had muskets. One by one, Cathy and I would steamroll Asia demanding each leader to kneel and kiss the ring, then I'd have to slog my army off to America to complete the conquest. That's the problem with the Earth map, fun as all hell to play but once you get to the 1500s, each turn becomes longer and longer as you wait for the computer to calculate all the cities and moves and... yeah.

In my opinion, Europe is almost too easy to play on this map if you are aggressive. Neal has it right with Toku but Liz is even better in my opinion with an easy fight for Paris (The Great Wall? Really? Really Louis?) and a snowball effect on the lush lands of Europe. Its just too nice of a location. Great production in Paris, Madrid, Rome/Aberdeen (depending on where you put the Maoi), all the resources you need (a bit light on the happy faces but that is what HR is for) in a nice tight compact space.

While its true that every leader in Europe can simply romp in the hands of a human, there are ways to balance the game a tad further. On turn 1, go into the World Builder, and hand-edit in Archery, and replace their Warriors with Archers. You dont have to do every AI in the game that way, just your close neighbors. It will certainly change the flavor and difficulty of things.

Of course, in that circumstance, another civ may be "stronger", since its a bit harder to pull off so many "rushes", and there really isnt room to expand for many of the Euro leaders. Hatty or Mansa may get the nod here, since they can bust out a bunch of cities, and build a real army, and roll through Europe Blitzkrieg-style, Archers or not.

Remember, in the scenario, the AIs have to tech Archery, and they all do almost instantly. Thats quite a few turns of slow-down. Giving it to them means they can hit BW faster, IW faster, Construction, etc, etc.

If you aren't heading for a rush Catherin, Monty or Qin may have the best land to expand into traditionally to build a base for later wars.

Bleys,

I don't think I need to tell you how easy it would be to rush an AI with only Axes, even if that AI starts with 2 Archers. Your capitol can make short work of any civ in less than 10 tiles from your start. Also, since virtually every European city is an excellent early production powerhouse it isn't too difficult to build up a huge army of Axemen and go romping through the world at a very early stage in the game.

In my Prince Rome Earth 34civs game I had all of Europe (inc England and Scandinavia) and most af Africa dominated by 1ad with Praetorians. Praets require Iron, so my inital rush was delayed much more than if I were to have used Axemen, though I will admit that I suffered far fewer losses due to the extra 3 strength over Axemen, and I was mostly fighting Warriors for a long time, not Archers.

My point here is that it should be very easy to have all of Europe conquered by as early as 1000 or ever 2000bc with only Axemen and Swordsmen, even if the AI starts with Archers, so long as you start somewhere remotely close to Europe.

Only recently got into this Scenario, but it is a beauty...

Tried HC first, boy does he have a tricky start. Monty and FDR are enjoyable but again, the resources aren't where you want them to be.

I haven't tried any of the European's yet, but want to give Fred a go having read the above.:goodjob:

My current best is China:king:, what a powerhouse. Take out Japan and Genghis with your C-K-O's, expand into Siam and keep going to Ozland. More resources then you can shake a stick at.

The funny thing with China though is that I often find myself lacking oil when I play them on this map. By then it's usually easy to just take it but still it's interesting.

What you don't like about Greece:rolleyes:? The only time i played that scenario to end was as Greece. Did conquest? Infantry against jaguars wasn't even funny.

Looks like its going to difficult to balance out the game so that European civs don't have a cakewalk (or axe-rush followed by cakewalk). A radical alternative would be to go into worldbuilder and remove some of Europe's resources. You'd still have all the free cities but the land wouldn't be quite as good.

It would help too if the European AIs were a bit more aggressive. Usually it is a Buddhist love-fest in Europe early on until the close borders spill over. I have seen Freddy rush France once or twice though.

Having Louis the wonder-whore sitting on the best land in Europe cranking out the Great Wall isn't exactly a huge speed bump either for any of the other European civs.

In my experience, either the Aztecs or Americans are both in a great spot to win a space race. They just have to kill the other North American civ early and then expand into South America before the rest of the world gets Astronomy, and they find themselves with a ton of good land. South America especially is fantastic once levees come around.

Played as Mongols on Monarch, epic.

It is INCREDIBLY hard to keep up with Cyrus and Hatty, especially on this new difficulty. I C rushed China, and went along REXing. Got EIGHT cities at the end but gave up. The maintenence for Genghis seems insane when you REX. When Cyrus got Mathematics and I was still on Monotheism, I gave up. It is HARD as Genghis.

Played as Hatty on Monarch, Epic.

Did a REX beeline to settle Mesopotamia (which I named "Uruk") and Jerusalem (to keep logistics lines going to Uruk), and Aswan SE of the cap to hook up Ivory.

Saladin founded Hinduism which quickly spam-spread all over. I, Persia, India, Cathy, and Frederick, all converted. Issy founded Buddhism and that spam-spread to England, France, Rome, Greece, and China (those ghost missionaries really knew how to send a message in a bottle!) Diplo blocs generally followed religious lines, which made me unwilling to chariot-rush Arabia or Persia. Mansa was just a beast for tech-trading so I didn't want to ruin that relationship. The only really viable option for conquest was Greece.

Uruk wasn't quite as productive as I'd hoped though, and didn't really afford enough of a stack to take on the Greek phalanxes, so I choked and stayed at peace, waiting for a triangulation opportunity (let someone else declare and go in while he's busy against Freddie and Cathy).

Thebes was just a JOKE. Health limit was 7 EVEN WITH having chopped the Hanging Gardens in Jerusalem, granary, and aquaduct. Plenty of good tiles, no health to allow working them. It was probably a mistake but I was running scientists and built the GL there, so I was #2 worldwide in science (after Saladin), but productivity was extremely low, and geographically I was absolutely boxed. Open land in the core of Africa, but it was just JUNK. No food, no real goodies to speak of. Just a jungle clearing mess if you want to generate a cottage farm 6,000 squares from Thebes, and... no thanks.

Found what I thought was a triangulation opportunity when Buddhist Louis declared on Hindu Freddie. Freddie talked me into joining the war against Louis which I figured would get Aggro Alex to declare on me, which would let me do my defensive demolition on his forces then go in for the kill. Didn't roll that way. Alex stayed neutral (he was probably afraid of Cathy who was encroaching on his territory from the NE), and Issy declared on me instead. I wasn't worried about that but just annoyed that I'd have to bring a third enemy into the war if I wanted to expand into Greece. So I stared working on building a bigger stack. And when in mid-build of that stack, BOOM, Issy shows up with about 10 HAs, 12 swordsmen, 4 or 5 axemen, and easily 20 catapults. My forces were no match (Uruk was the only really productive city and it couldn't pick up all the slack from the others' weaknesses), so, pulled the plug.

I plan to try again with immediate chariot-rushes against Saladin and Alex regardless of how the religions pan out, let the spiritual chips fall where they may. This will probably mean Persia will take that sweet Iraqi production land though, so maybe take out Cyrus after Sally. But without spears... I suppose war chariots > immortals, but still, it'll be tough when Thebes is so frigging worthless for health. Size max 7 means whip max 3, joy oh joy. Just build one worker who'll be overworking after 3 tiles. :rolleyes:

Sorry this won't contain any screenshots, I don't have the save anymore since I won this game, but I'll briefly recount the victory.

America, prince, normal speed.


Monty seems a little far away for an all out axe rush. Plus his jaguars are weak compared to axes and he doesn't have metals close. So I expanded to three cities before building/whipping 15 axes and taking him out.

Great places to expand are north into new york/maine, west around michigan or illinois and south west maybe around texas. The biggest problem I seemed to have was getting enough production out of my midwest cities and enough food for my western ones. The west is all plains and hills, midwest is all grasslands. Sets up for a great cottage economy though. I built moi statues in washington dc and used it as a bureaucracy production center. Made a midwest city full of cottages my tech city.

I went for the great lighthouse asap and placed a lot of cities along coasts- there's nice ones up along the eastern coast like I mentioned and also in california and washington state area. Then you can expand lower into south america since hayuena never gets out of his starting area. Then I just peacefully expanded to fill the rest of the americas and won a space victory with ease. Did my usual milestones like great library, liberalism race and astronomy early to trade over oceans without the old world being able to trade back with me.

Overall if you take care of monty early this game is really easy. You just build up and if you want you could go kick the old world's butt or just win a peaceful victory. One thing to do though, if Monty does not found a religion make sure you found one! Otherwise you'll be religion-less until 1000ad ish. I usually shoot for Confucianism or Taoism if I miss that.

I would recommend this leader if you're a builder. You'll get a lot of space to expand and develop a huge empire without much warring. I wouldn't recommend if you're an avid warmonger. In that case play rome :lol:

I'd Moai Florida if I were playing America. :)

Played as Mongols on Monarch, epic.

It is INCREDIBLY hard to keep up with Cyrus and Hatty, especially on this new difficulty. I C rushed China, and went along REXing. Got EIGHT cities at the end but gave up. The maintenence for Genghis seems insane when you REX. When Cyrus got Mathematics and I was still on Monotheism, I gave up. It is HARD as Genghis.

I'll take them, EMP/Epic, this weekend.

@Cheese

I have been playing a game with GK in the weekends ( it is in the Midles ages now ) and I'm in a very respectable position. I started as you and had some troubles with the cash ( was 2 turns away of complete bankrupcy :p ), but I have a very solid position now: half India ( where I was forced to stop due to the money issues ), China, Korea area and Japan ( that one was bloody but Toku never had more than 2 cities...... He was always dropping setters in the mainland :confused: I only had to move my army 2 units by turn to his island during a ceasefire and then I blitzed him.

I'm still rebuilding and probably will have the war to end all wars when I want to expand seriously again, because Cyrus is a monster in size ( mainly because there is no GK AI expanding to Siberia :p ) . Probably will need to wait for rifles ;)

Definetely doable.... I wonder where did you putted your cities. China land can sustain more than a 8 cities empire :D

Played E18 as Frederick early this morning. Holy crap, my first "easy" win on Immortal!

Woooooooot! ;)

Just a little advice for GK;
I would advise not invading Japan until you have extremely advanced troops in comparison. Toku just produces unit after unit until he has like a 50 man army in Kyoto. Simply not worth it. Just take the mainland stuff, killing China, and moving into India. It's also smart to reposition your capital, since it's going to be quite spread out in comparison to a conquered empire. GK is a hellish climb to the top, even on the lower levels. I wasn't top dog until nearly 500 AD, at which point I controlled all of SE Asia save Japan, but still lagged behind tech-wise. Tech will be the biggest problem you have as GK. I advise tech trading to be used fully if possible.

Inspired by Neal, I just started two E18 games as germany, one on deity and one on immortal.

In both cases, I settled on the copper, researched IW and chopped an axe army. In the immortal case, the army of 8 or so axemen took rome, paris, madrid, and london. The freaky thing was, madrid and london were guarded by a pair of warriors each. The game was in the bag.

In the deity game, I was totally overrun by the AI and couldn't even get Rome down. The game was lost.

Do other people have the same experience of immortal vs deity? or was I just unlucky in the deity attempt? I like playing E18, but it seems that it is either unwinnable (ie a crap leader at a decent difficulty or a good leader at deity) or cheesy-easy (one level down). What are your experiences?

Currently playing Mongolia, Monarch, Epic, Earth18civs, Kublai instead of Gengis, Raging Barbarians, Aggressive AI, some other changes. Things were pretty grim at first:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=197190&stc=1&d=1229273343

Having modded-in Meiji instead of Tokugawa was good:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=197191&stc=1&d=1229273343

And finally, when the Barbarians where defeated, I managed to capture Beijing and its many wonders:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=197192&stc=1&d=1229273343

And that's how Mongolia looks now:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=197193&stc=1&d=1229273535

Soon it'll be the time for another push into China. Notice that the whole Old World is Taoist.

Please put your report in SPOILERS Wolf.

Also could we keep mods to a minimum, this is for the Vanilla scenario.

I basically played Hatshepsut for a few turns. I managed to get a city by copper (a few tiles away from Persepolis) and then backfilled a city. For some reason, I just...stopped playing. I don't know why LOL.

Then I played Rome (yes, sorry) on Immortal, just like the Hatshepsut game. It's about 1800 BC and I've got 8 axes ready to invade Catherine with about 5 others guarding the homeland and 3 others ready to strike soon as well. Catherine only has 3 cities but they're guarded by about 3 archers and 1 warrior each. Spain, France, and Germany have been wiped out. I have 6 cities by this point, and am going for Sailing for the Great Lighthouse. No wonders or Iron Working yet.

If I ever get off my lazy ass and post screenshots, I'll do so (in spoilers of course).

I will post a non-BTS game, probably Huayna Capac/Monarch/Epic.

My Strategy:
I'm thinking moving the settler 1 SW to get a Coastal, while keeping the Gold and Corn. Settle two cities quickly - the 2 Corn, 1 Dye site to pump out settlers, and the 2 Copper site to pump out Galleys and Work Boats. Settle Colombia and Venezuela, then Argentina. Brazil and the interior should be left for last, with a large amount of Workers ready.

Also could we keep mods to a minimum, this is for the Vanilla scenario.

Which is not that different from the original Earth18. (Unless changing a few leaders and changing the terrain graphics counts as something game-breakable). So I did keep mods to a minimm.

I like to play as Alex, you can axe rush east or west :) although i nab the west europe every time because it puts me in first place point wise..

Gave up as America on Immortal...
...due to axe-rushing attempts at Monty absolutely going nowhere. Full plunders down to bare earth and with two size-1 cities he could still make enough archers and jaguars to keep hold of those cities.

I plan to try again with a "policy of containment", starting with a plunder-rush, keep his two cities under siege with a skeleton crew, suppressed rather than killed, and meanwhile try to settle a few cities into the midwest, get some economy rolling, and establish trade with Huayna Capac. With any luck he'll be a different religion than Monty or else I'll have to beeline contact with Europe for trade routes.

So I continued playing my Rome game on Immortal difficulty and epic speed. I played to 25 AD. Screenshots below:

Overview
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0043-2.jpg

Closer view of Europe.
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0044-2.jpg

My plan is to go after Alex next. I can still use praets with catapults for this war.

I just finished a very fun game with Spain, where I eschewed the "rush everyone (or anyone for that matter) in Europe" strategy completely and still won!

Issabella/Monarch/Epic:

Moved over East one or two spaces for first city (you can tell where to go because of the resources) to grant water access, took advantage of Mysticism to get first early religion, which spread to rest of Europe except Russia and Greece as Arabs founded other early religion. Actually sent a few missionaries to ensure the religion stuck as Hinduism was beginning to spread and I was afraid Italy and Germany would flip on me, so I converted a few of their secondary cities. Generally tried to keep good relations with other local powers with trade and open borders, and out of their wars.

Built an early galley and founded second city in about Tunisia to make sure Rome or Egypt didn't move there, and then third city right where Atlantic and Mediterranian Sea meet (which recaptured a resource or two I lost in Iberia by moving Madrid east). Then I just put some emphasis on culture buildings to keep the borders stable, built up a modest deterrent defense, sent a missionary to Mansa who was still without religion to keep him peaceful, and got some good tech trades from Mansa as well.

During this time, I was peaceful with my neighbors. I did get war declared once by Mongolia for some odd reason who managed to actually get a stack to Madrid through open borders which my archers handled nicely, and once by Persia who never attacked. (This was the scary part, as Persia was by far the leader, with an empire stretching from Siberia to Vietnam, but Persia was in more or less perma-war with Russia, China and India so it never had a chance to attack me.) There were various unimportant wars in the area, the only notable one being Russia taking Paris and eliminating the French, the only elimination the entire game. My little three city empire was fairly competitive in tech and my overall was just enough to put me in the top third.

I didn't completely beeline it, but I did reach Astronomy well before everyone else, so I was able to implement my strategy from the beginning: South American Dominance!

My earlier caravel and explorer (I got the first caravel too, and of course circumnavigation bonus thereafter) confirmed what almost always happens: Monty preoccupied with Washington and the Incas too dumb to build a galley and put a settler on it to escape their mountainous prison. The bulk of South America, with its breathtaking river run plains, hilly resource filled coasts, and poorly defended but semi-developed and well placed barbarian cities was completely up for grabs. Isabella wasn't intimidated by all that jungle of course, being Expansive, knowing that clearing it and jungly health issues wouldn't be too bad.

Long story short, during the midgame I built enough of a galleon navy to protect my intercontinental shipping lanes and move troops about, an army to conquer the three barb cities, enough settlers to build cities to seal off the coast from Argentina to Panama (starting from the point of land in Brazil closest to Europe and spreading from there), and then had my new cities spawn enough settlers and workers to claim the Amazon basin all the way to the Andes. I wasn't quick enough to expand over the whole continent to stop Mansa from establishing a city on the southern tip and also the Faulkland Islands, but he was a middling power and my closest friend so I didn't get anal about it.

As I was establishing and developing my South American empire, China became the sole true superpower, with Mongolian and Japanese vassals (both five or six city powers in themselves) and a bunch of cities where you would expect. Persia was also strong, with a wedge up to the arctic between Russia and Mongolia and pushing India almost completely out of Asia mainland but for two cities, although India was still respectable in size if not development by being the one to claim most of Indonesia and Australia. Russia was in good shape, having taken a lot of Germany, Scandinavia, and Siberia until it hit Persia, as well as Paris as I mentioned earlier, although Germany still had two cities. England had a few colonies in the tundra area of Canada, one in Cuba and also two in South Africa, so was respectable. Egypt had most of East Africa and the Mideast, leaving the Arabs with just two cities in Arabian penninsula. Mansa was average in West Africa. Rome and Greece were both two city powers, eventually vassalled to Russia and Persia respectably. No one in the old world paid much attention to me, although I did pay out some tech bribes from time to time to keep it that way.

Halfway through settling South America, Monty made America and the Incas his vassals and of course declared war on me. However, through naval dominance and the fact that a mountain separates North and South America, this wasn't a problem. I just kept sinking his ships. He did land a couple of invasion forces on the northern part of South America but I was able to beat them back. We went back and forth between war and peace until the end of the game. I was tempted to take the three cities of his Incan vassal because Incan culture was impeding on my Amazon cities, and probably should have just for the aesthetic value of owning the continent save for Mansa's two cities in the south, but didn't because by then I was well on my way to winning.

Winning via space, of course. I had kept my research high throughout and built all the research buildings wherever reasonable, wasn't wasting many resources on military beyond basic city defense (and a fairly large army in Madrid with transports to take them to my two North African cities if necessary, and a big army in South America just in case), wasn't building much of an economic base beyond a gold city in South America, and wasn't paying attention to espionage at all.

Once I got Apollo, I had three monster production cities ready to build what I needed (two in South America, both former barb cities, the other in North Africa which I had earlier given Maori). It was all she wrote from there!

This game was fun because it didn't rely on the usual crush your Western European neighbors strategy and glide to the win. I got pretty lucky avoiding ruinous war early on, the mid game rush to fill out South America before anyone else gets there is fun and takes some strategy, and it felt great to stuff it in China and Persia's face at the very end when they were leading the whole game and to beat them without a shot ever fired.

The South American strategy works well for a bunch of countries but probably the best with Spain. Expansive is a big help clearing out the jungle, and with Spain you don't have to worry about the lack of open borders shutting down sea lanes once you get Astronomy to exploit it (Rome or Greece might be boxed in by a Spain which refuses to grant open borders for example; same with Germany being cut off by England). Mali would work great too, maybe even better. And of course if you play the Incas, do what computer Incas never seem to do, build a galley early and claim the continent for yourself before anyone else discovers Astronomy.

Good report and welcome to the forums Jarbo! :beer:!

Good report and welcome to the forums Jarbo! :beer:!

I Agree. Welcome Jarbo. :goodjob:

@Lone Wolf - Are you running any kind of graphical mod? I think your terrain looks really slick.

@Lone Wolf - Are you running any kind of graphical mod? I think your terrain looks really slick.

It's the terrain from latest Rhye's and Fall.

Update:

When I got Rifling, I build myself a huge army and declared on China (who had Infantries) again, two times. The AI demonstrated militiary incompetence in these wars twice (once deciding that the best way to attack my Rifle-Cannon SOD is when it's on a hill and across a river, and once decining that tutrling in a resisting city captured from Khmer is more important than reinforcing a core city). Thus the Chinese are now only in India (they conquered North India) and also they hold a Siberian city.

I play with No Tech Brokering. Perhaps that's the reason no AI has researched Artillery yet, and for some time I'll be the only one with Rocketry. Thus, I stand some chance in the space race.

The conquered Chinese lands:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=198144&stc=1&d=1230044665

Note the strong Japan - that's what happens when it's not leaded by a cranky xenophobe, - and a strong Arabia - the founder of (nearly) One True Faith.

I've played this scenario a lot--my default is immortal and I give any nearby AI archery+2 archers. I also try and play as if I don't know the map. Most of these games I didn't finish--I don't play them out once they're decided.

Spain Settle 1E on the coast. Rush France. A little tougher but still works. Capture a bunch of wonders then take out England=game over.

FranceThis was tougher--I wonderspammed then took out Spain, Rome, Greece, Arab. Easier to conquer the wonders than to build'em

Rome-I played deity but gave the AI no bonusesI guess they needed the bonuses. Still after conquering France, Spain, England, Germany, Greece and picking up several wonders I think I was third in score:lol:

GermanyThis was a little interesting as I settled on the coast like one normally would and lost the copper. I rexed up into Scandinavia but had a little excitement as I got ganged up on a bit but played defense then took out France, England

GreeceI went east and took the good lands there--no troubles.

Persiatoo easy

Malithis was tough. Capital sucks and couldn't get anything going--gave it up

MongolsI played this twice. After scout move the better capital site with 2 sheep is revealed and settled there. First attempt I tried to get the UU and rexed a bit but Qin rushed me:(. Next game I chariot rushed QSH and won but it seemed I got a bit lucky. Chinese lands are too good so that was enough.

HCthis was a good game (not necessarily well played). I hurried to the GLH, then played a peaceful space game getting most of the continent as I dithered a bit settling. I won by about 25 turns.

Japanrexed a bit, China was part of a large AP block--got overwhelming land--resources are awesome, etc. Just too strong even without attacking China.

England--deityI take out Louis and think I'm in pretty good shape when Rome whacks me:(

USA--I lose this one--I rexed too much and Monte rushed me before I was ready.

Egypt--settle city 2 up by the sheep/stone and it's just too strong.

Asoka-lands are very strong--peaceful cultural although I surely could have done others

Cathy-rexed into uber lands--fell behind on tech for a while but then got it going and had waaay too much land before I even started warmongering

My top picks--Europe--Louis (or Liz up a level)
Mongols
USA for a challenge.
HC for a peaceful game

Rome is incredibly fun on this map... :mischief:

Here's some screenshots from my 745 AD game on Immortal difficulty (with Epic speed). I have 6 civs dead and 2 vassalized so far.



The overall view:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0046-2.jpg


I am currently at war with Saladin, who will soon lose his capital. :goodjob: After I capture the cities on the Arabian mainland, I will vassalize him since he has many cities in Africa, including Madagascar. Next up on the target list will probably be the Asoka and Cyrus team.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0047-2.jpg

I like this tech screen. :goodjob:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0048-2.jpg

A view of my capital and best city, Paris.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0049-2.jpg



I think I started out well but kind of stagnanted somewhere between 1 AD and 500 AD due to lack of workers and focusing on wonders instead of military. :mischief: But I'm still planning on getting a Conquest win ASAP.

I researched Liberalism sometime around 700 AD and took Astronomy with it. I was hoping to get Open Borders with the Aztecs and America, but Montezuma won't OB with me even though he's Cautious towards me. :(

And Roosevelt hasn't researched Meditation and Priesthood yet?!? Genghis Khan hasn't researched Priesthood as well...and on top of that, I actually gave him 2 free gold resources in his capital to help him out! GK and Roosy are not Immortal AI's.

Mind putting that last bit in a spoiler DMOC?

Damn, Paris is nice.

My HC game up and died. I tried to REX like crazy, but barbs starting hitting my cities before I could whip Archers into place. Gave up when I saw an English Galleon next to my Galley.

Lost my Space Race to Lizzie the Space Race monster. :( I wasn't doing too bad, through.

Saladin become a total monster in the game. Germany eliminated Russia in the Industrial Age. Egypt vassalized Persia. Aggressive AI truly makes them more aggressive. Watching over such AI conquests is fun.

My biggest mistake was selecting Raging Barbarians and being unprepared for them.

I like playing E18, but it seems that it is either unwinnable (ie a crap leader at a decent difficulty or a good leader at deity) or cheesy-easy (one level down). What are your experiences?

Try Huayna Capac at your easier level. He's Ind/Fin and all the superlatives that come with that, BUT, he's on the west side of an impassable mountain range and Sailing is a long way off. No REX, almost no resources. What to do, what to do... (there's plenty that can be done, but it's a mid-range challenge that's neither unwinnable nor unloseable).

Playing an Earth 18 now, and broadcasting it! Yay!

i just won a diplomatic victory as china in 17xx AD... I either destroyed or made vassal's of every civilization which starts in asia, africa and europe.. difficult was low, it was my first game in a long long time..

just started a game as louis a couple difficult levels up. right now its around 300b.c. and its just england, russia and myself in europe... i hate catherine so shes about to get ganked

i love earth 18 civ!

Try Huayna Capac at your easier level. He's Ind/Fin and all the superlatives that come with that, BUT, he's on the west side of an impassable mountain range and Sailing is a long way off. No REX, almost no resources. What to do, what to do... (there's plenty that can be done, but it's a mid-range challenge that's neither unwinnable nor unloseable).

Are you kidding me? Hayena Copoc has one of the easiest starts on the map, maybe a bit under China or Russia. Escape from Peru takes a while (Not impossible, there's an exit into Argentina), but once you do, you can get the best land in the game, the advantages of being connected to the world (tech trading, warring, trade) without the drawbacks (Namely invasions, the AI is designed so that they can't invade a continent if there's a land route but it's blocked by a mountain. Sink the mountain or turn it into a plains, and you get plenty of invasions.). The land in Brazil makes me weep, and the east coast has plenty of luxury and strategic resources.

If you really want a challenge, go Mongolia, Greece, or Mali.

Try Huayna Capac at your easier level. He's Ind/Fin and all the superlatives that come with that, BUT, he's on the west side of an impassable mountain range and Sailing is a long way off. No REX, almost no resources. What to do, what to do... (there's plenty that can be done, but it's a mid-range challenge that's neither unwinnable nor unloseable).

In the default map, he's trapped. However, the mountain impasse trapping monte bugs the game and monte pretty much won't declare on you. This yields almost completely free run to the entirety of south america! This is probably the largest span of untouched land in the game. It's a smidge boring though.

It's hard to get wonders but on most difficulties you can sell out on the great wall and ignore barbs. Once you get IW and a couple workers on that jungle you have some of the best land in the map.

As for sailing, you'll probably get 3 cities before needing to expand. That's plenty of time. Until barb galleys start being a problem, you can easily handle all unit transport to the rest of the continent with a single galley (no way would you be producing more than 2 units/turn out of the first 3 cities).

Are you kidding me? Hayena Copoc has one of the easiest starts on the map


It's not a *bad* start but come on, this is a map where Frederick can axe-roll straight into domination like falling off a log. Things are relative here.


maybe a bit under China or Russia. Escape from Peru takes a while (Not impossible, there's an exit into Argentina), but once you do, you can get the best land in the game,


Assuming Mansa doesn't beat you to it. He'll beeline Astro and he's a tech-trade whore with the entire, and I mean ENTIRE Eurasian world. Meanwhile you're trying to scrape by a few trades with Monty and Teddy gets into greedy streaks for long periods of the game where he won't give up any backfills. I can tell from your descriptions here you've only been playing this on the lower levels.


the advantages of being connected to the world (tech trading, warring, trade)


See above.


without the drawbacks (Namely invasions, the AI is designed so that they can't invade a continent if there's a land route but it's blocked by a mountain. Sink the mountain or turn it into a plains, and you get plenty of invasions.). The land in Brazil makes me weep, and the east coast has plenty of luxury and strategic resources.

If you really want a challenge, go Mongolia, Greece, or Mali.

Yes, those are greater challenges (especially Mongolia where it's "KESHLIK AND A PRAYER" for lucky war results), but it's also completely dishonest to claim Huayna's start here is "easy".

It's hard to get wonders but on most difficulties you can sell out on the great wall and ignore barbs.


Well you can't ignore barbs because they'll settle Brazil and Venezuela long before you do. And while you're busy with axe-on-axe meat grinding there, bing bing BING, the east coast goes Mali. It comes down to a very specific beeline and anti-barb-rush tactic with very little room for fluff, and that's what a "challenge" is. Not easy, not impossible, but *interesting*, which was my point.


Once you get IW and a couple workers on that jungle you have some of the best land in the map.


True that, if your anti-barb rush succeeds prior to the Mali spam.


As for sailing, you'll probably get 3 cities before needing to expand.


2 if you want to feed them.


That's plenty of time. Until barb galleys start being a problem, you can easily handle all unit transport to the rest of the continent with a single galley (no way would you be producing more than 2 units/turn out of the first 3 cities).

Galley production isn't the problem. In fact "eventually" beating the barb cities in the sweet locations isn't a problem. The challenge is doing so QUICKLY, quicker than a tech-trading-whore with access to all of Eurasia for trades, can get to astro. At the higher levels that's no walk in the park.

Mali? They have some horrible land, and will get killed by someone, whether it be Russians, Barbs or Saladin.

Mali? They have some horrible land, and will get killed by someone, whether it be Russians, Barbs or Saladin.

That's a random result you may have run into, but if Mali survives they become obsessed with owning Brazil. Which they will sooner than you'd think because of their tech rate and how they trade (galleons). And likely when you meet them they'll have longbows smirking at your axes, so, have a plan.

In my games something like France or England goes to South America faster than Mali.

Honestly at Astro time MAli is non existant factor. Even if he would be Mansa build way to low troops. Beat crap out of him.

On my first try of HC on the map I was too slow and Saladin beat me to Brazil.

I started at the top though. Next time I took Argentina first and worked my way up the coast, then I could get the whole continent before the others came over.

That's a random result you may have run into, but if Mali survives they become obsessed with owning Brazil. Which they will sooner than you'd think because of their tech rate and how they trade (galleons). And likely when you meet them they'll have longbows smirking at your axes, so, have a plan.

Really? I usually play at Prince, but usually they are a backwards, weak vassal state that gets to Astronomy a little bit before the Mongolians.

Yeah, usually the settlement of Brazil goes to England and Germany. Mansa is almost always up there in the tech race, though. He never really does anything with his scientific knowledge (and after playing a game as him, I can see why- he's crippled by health problems and low production), but I've never seen him "backwards."

I agree with those saying Mansa is a non-factor. I remember ONE game where he was second in the tech lead -- and he was one of my seven vassals. ;)

Yeah, usually the settlement of Brazil goes to England and Germany. Mansa is almost always up there in the tech race, though. He never really does anything with his scientific knowledge (and after playing a game as him, I can see why- he's crippled by health problems and low production), but I've never seen him "backwards."

Yeah, I saw that game. I can't believe you pulled that out. :p

Well, I've only played a few Earth 18 games when Mali wasn't a vassal, but when they were a vassal, they were backwards before being conquered, but after, I guess the conquerer gifted them techs. They were still a non factor, though.

Also, I agree with England getting to the new world, but a lot of times I see China do it. :crazyeye:

In my games something like France or England goes to South America faster than Mali.

Honestly at Astro time MAli is non existant factor. Even if he would be Mansa build way to low troops. Beat crap out of him.

E18 has a wide variety, admittedly, of how the AIs can play out, especially in Eurasia. The run-through I did last night (tinkering with Inca strategies), the PERSIANS were destroyed, which almost never happens.

But the thing last night's game reminded me about is the absolutely sick flood of axemen the barbs will attack you with when you try to REX along south America. Basically a stream of 1 per turn is not unusual even on Monarch. This means having to bite the bullet with either an early wonder to culture over the copper or building a trash city there to claim it. Archer stacks just get eaten alive. I was able to build GLH last night and started to make some pretty good progress. One black stack did take over my panama-ish city but the setback just makes it more interesting. I've basically shifted gears to building "colonization stacks" of axes and cats, 4 or 5 per settler, just to fend off barb axe floods.

It's something you con't have to deal with when you're surrounded by AIs, a blessing and a curse.