I've been doing pretty well at living through to the latest techs. However, I am getting frustrated by inevitable late game attacks.

It seems that no matter how nice I am with my neighbours they always attack me. Even if I give them presents, and we've been best friends throughout the game, they always attack me. Usually if I've been embroiled in a war with one neighbour, my once dependable neighbour decides to attack me, with absolutely no warning. They'll just cancel open borders and go straight to the attack. Which usually means the effective end of my game, since they'll suddenly drop 25 units into my productive heartlands.

I am frustrated with this, because it seems to defy the logic of the world that governments with the same religion, civics, and good relations would suddenly attack without warning.

It means that I constantly have to be so incredibly cautious about launching any kind of attacks of my own, that I usually just don't bother.

Is there some effective way to deal with this scenario???

build more troopers :)

Your power levels are probably low and you failed a check by the cpu. You probably should build more units, just in case.

I don't know how the code works in the game, but I would also imagine that the computer wants to win too. If it sees that you are about to win, it will probably want to do anything to stop you from winning and giving itself a better chance to win. It might not declare war on you, but it could also sabotage your space ship parts, buildings, etc.

There are some very knowledgeable posters here that can give you a much better answer.

Your power levels are probably low and you failed a check by the cpu. You probably should build more units, just in case.

I don't know how the code works in the game, but I would also imagine that the computer wants to win too. If it sees that you are about to win, it will probably want to do anything to stop you from winning and giving itself a better chance to win. It might not declare war on you, but it could also sabotage your space ship parts, buildings, etc.

There are some very knowledgeable posters here that can give you a much better answer.

True that they may start sabotaging parts and other non-violent means of slowing you down, but I have never had an AI declare on me to stop me from winning. The AI has stood idly by many peaceful space race and culture games, it simply doesn't care.

Now it can declare war during this period, but that'll be due to not liking me in the first place, but because its scared to lose.

Kill someone early on and take their land. You should be able to use their land to build enough military to either scare your neighbors or destroy them. Course, I'm a war monger and if you're not you might have an aversion to early game warring. In that case, tough nuggets, learn to slave units or something :x

I guess I'm just frustrated because it seems to me that there's no warning.

How am I supposed to guess that they suddenly don't like me, if we haven't even interacted in ages? Shouldn't there be some small warning signs at least, to let me know that if I dispatch 75% of my troops elsewhere they might decide to take advantage of that? Sure it makes sense on a certain level, but it isn't really in keeping with "real world" politics, if they have every cultural and political reason to like me.

I guess I just object to having to build so many "back up" troops, that it takes forever to do anything interesting tactically outside of defending your cities.

Keep a very close eye on the F9 demographics.
Watch for sudden civics changes like Theocracy and Vassalage together.
Spy and counterspy.

Welcome to the Forums yuric76. :beer:

If you go to the trade screen with a civ, mouse over the option for them to declare war on someone. If they say "we have enough on our hands right now", then you know they are about to go to war. You just might be the target!

Also, if you have open borders you should always be keeping an eye out for what troop movements your neighbors have. "Wow Shaka is suddenly moving his stack towards me!" Might be a good sign he's gonna DOW you.

Right before you attack your target, you may want to see if you can bribe other civs into wars with each other. This will also keep them off your back.

That being said, the number one piece of advice is KEEP BUILDING TROOPS. Get the bug mod, it makes it brainlessly easy to see your power rating vs. the world.

Edit - Flyin beat me to it.

Note that no AI will attack you at friendly, expect one (im looking at you Cathy). Also there is a list of civs that will not attack you at pleased you can view here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=301431)

Note that no AI will attack you at friendly

i thought that this was true unless they started to plan on attacking you (moving troops towards you, etc) at a different disposition level: that is, they plan on launching an attack at cautious, then, somehow, you get up to friendly, they can still DOW you.

i thought that this was true unless they started to plan on attacking you (moving troops towards you, etc) at a different disposition level: that is, they plan on launching an attack at cautious, then, somehow, you get up to friendly, they can still DOW you.

I forgot to mention that :crazyeye:. Thanks for bringing that up.

I forgot to mention that :crazyeye:. Thanks for bringing that up.

Note that if they do that, they'll be in We Have Enough On Our Hands Right Now mode throughout the duration of their preparations. So if they're in friendly and they aren't WHEOOHRN, you're safe as long as you stay friends. (unless its Cathy and she gets bribed of course)

Also if you have vassals it figures their relationship with the vassal as well. So if they are cautious with your vassal and friendly with you it might drop them from a friendly status. They are also probably being bribed into declaring war by your enemy. Amd finally, in the late game they may have switched to Free religion which loses the shared religion modifier, your attack on their friend is a penalty or you may have switched out of their favored civic.

great. thanks for the tips. I didn't realise that there was such a strict heirarchy of action between the levels of relations (though it makes sense).

How does one go about installing a mod?

Also, does stationing troops in friendly territory annoy them? Does giving small amounts of money to pleased or friendly nations help relations much?

The best way to secure peace is to be prepared for war. Border cities should be well-defended, and an offensive-oriented stack-o-doom should be always at the ready to retake anything an AI takes on a suprise attack. In the late game I also build mini-stacks of defenders to react to regional threats (1 or 2 turns away from each city via railroad).

Even if you're gunning for culture or space race, there's no way to get there without a military deterrent. Even Gandhi will attack you if you're weak.

Yeah, I try my best to be prepped for war. I am usually well able to handle one opponent, but once it gets up to two, or even three, I find it hard to produce enough units to deal with the sheer volume of units I will meet, not mention the war weariness that starts to creep in after decades at war. However, I will obviously have to find some way to either fight smarter, or build quicker.

War weariness isn't a problem when you're on defense. For this reason the optimal defensive strategy is different from the optimal offensive one. Losses on offense are more expensive (WW) than losses on defense, to a defensive stack first and foremost has to focus on numbers, numbers, and NUMBERS.

The game mechanics of Civ is extreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemely unrealistic when it comes to this, but so be it, might as well exploit their inability to code the game right: I don't care if they're coming at me with a mech infantry, if I throw 4 or 5 cavs at it, that sucker WILL die. Would never happen in real life, but happens all the time in the game. Substandard units for whatever reason still do "some damage" to the point where you can always overwhelm a tech-superior invader with massive numbers.

SO. When I say "well defended", I mean... BIG STACKS. Of whatever you've got.

hmmm...ok. i guess a sort of "russian strategy"... is this more efficient production wise too?

hmmm...ok. i guess a sort of "russian strategy"... is this more efficient production wise too?

It will have to be, and of course if you hadn't given any thought to defense during peace time, it's likely an invader caught you with your pacifist pants down, after a strategic soap drop.

But to me, the way I plan for the defensive phase of a war, it's a dream come true with an intended enemy invades. That expensive stack of obsolete units I might have deleted for being obsolete, can now go to good use rather than off into the vacuum of space without rendering any value. And that slows down the enemy long enough for a backfill of more modern defenders.

Also when on defense 100% of every city except those most *critical* wonder builds (e.g., Internet), switch to units. Whip or draft or chop or gold rush or whatever it takes. Better a population drop than a drop of the entire empire into the dustbin of history. Get the units out, get 'em out now.

Another important aspect of defensive war is the use of terrain. Forests and hills and forts are your friends. Stay on the opposite sides of rivers where possible. Any time you can get a terrain bonus from a move, do it. This will increase the efficiency of your defensive energy spent on your part versus the offensive energy spent by the attacker.

When attacking the AI stack, primarily you want horse-based units that can flank against siege weapons and your own siege weapons for collateral damage to their macemen or what not. Be prepared and willing to lose a lot before you start winning those combats, but eventually when you do win, and the enemy stack is annihilated, that's 2/3 of the war effort right there. Your offensive stack, which should have been kept generally safe from all of this, can now go into enemy territory and face less danger.

Who were the the civs that did that? Because that could be what the problem was. Since the civs act as their historical counterparts, some are natural backstabbers and even if they like you, if they see your weak, they'll take you down. One's to watch out for are Montezuma, Genghis Khan, Kublai Khan, etc.

I am frustrated with this, because it seems to defy the logic of the world that governments with the same religion, civics, and good relations would suddenly attack without warning.

See: Russian-Georgian conflict of 2008.
See: France/England
See: Most humans when they play civ.

it's likely an invader caught you with your pacifist pants down, after a strategic soap drop.


possibly the best line i've seen on this board.

Quote it in your sig. :D

See: Russian-Georgian conflict of 2008.
See: France/England
See: Most humans when they play civ.

I hate to break it to you, but Russians and Georgians haven't exactly been buddy buddy the last few years. And France and England are traditional adversaries....

Yuric, try U.S.-Pakistan... soon...

Quote it in your sig. :D

done and done

Try it like this:

it's likely an invader caught you with your pacifist pants down, after a strategic soap drop. Skallagrimson

I've had this happen to me before. In fact, I lost a game once in the 20th century because I got the shocker from my buddy/neighbor. I'd never had my feelings hurt by the computer before . . . that was a first.

Since then I am *always* hypervigilant in the modern age. I have my fighters doing recon over all of my neighbors and watching the oceans. I track stacks. This has saved my bacon dozens of times.

See: Russian-Georgian conflict of 2008.

They didn't have exactly great relations in the first place.

Get the bug mod, it makes it brainlessly easy to see your power rating vs. the world.

I use the BUG mod. How exactly does it help in showing your power rating against the other civs?

I use the BUG mod. How exactly does it help in showing your power rating against the other civs?
The numbers (your power compared to theirs) show up next to the score if you have enough espionage points on the relevant civ.

Ah, cheers, that explains everything. I've only played one game since I returned and mostly ignored espionage in it ;)