The Immortal Cookbook is a concurrent succession game series aiming to help readers learn how to play and win at Immortal level in Civilization 4: Beyond the Sword, v3.17.

Latest news: Round 2 posting time extended to January 11th.

The rules of the IMC series are borrowed from the original series played on Monarch (see Monarchist Cookbook Bullpen (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=272935)) and slightly modified:

1. A 4000 BC save is generated.
2. All players play one round from that save.
3. All saves are uploaded with a corresponding report in a spoiler.
4. Each player who posted a save for the round votes for 3 saves: best save receives 3 points, 2nd place 2, and 3rd place 1. You cannot vote for your own save.
5. Steps 2-4 are repeated using only the previous best save until Victory. In case of a tie players will continue from the save they chose as best among those in the tie. If a player has not voted for any of the saves in the tie, he can choose from which of the tied saves to play. If a player's save is included in the tie he can play from it if he wants to.

Beloved (I'm sure) leader:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Immortal%20Cookbook%20III/IMCIII_leader.jpg

You wanted a challenge, right? :D

Settings for this game:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Immortal%20Cookbook%20III/IMCIII_settings.jpg

In addition to the settings shown, the ones for the Hemispheres map are: 2 massive continents, islands size: islands. If you want to know how it could look like here are some examples from Mortac's "The Complete Guide To Map Generation" (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=246788#hemispheres):

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg70/Mortac/hem7.gif


Starting position:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Immortal%20Cookbook%20III/IMCIII_start.jpg

There will be no roster for this game. Anyone can pick the save chosen as starting point for a round and play the next round. You can also post shadow games in spoilers. Please don't post saves, reports or shadows for future rounds.

Rounds:
Round 0: The starting save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196689&d=1228840937)
Round 1: 4000 BC - 1AD - Abegweit got the most votes for this round. Here's the save for the second round: save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=197335&d=1229379062)
Round 2: 1AD - 1000AD - currently playing, ends on Sunday, January 11th, 2009
Round 3: 1000AD - 1600AD
Round 4: 1600AD - victory

Please include your username in the save name.

Reserved for future use.

I will try to get a go at this game someday.

Normal speed. :goodjob:

Start is fast so I'll probably play at least a round. After that, if time permits.

Hmm, 2 resources and 6 forests in the fat cross. I have a feeling we'll see horses or copper in there.

And I just realized how bad those starting techs are, especially on high difficulties. No food, no early start for a better unit. Basically, if you went the "normal" route here, Agriculture (corn) -> AH (cows) -> Mining -> BW and you didn't find either horses or copper nearby (or stone for Great Wall) you'd still need two techs to get a barb-fighting unit: Hunting -> Archery. Is this a case in which teching Hunting (optional prerequisite) before AH is actually a better strategy? Since not finding horses most probably implies going for Archery anyway.

ol Saladin, one of the better leaders and Civs. Get Hinduism, which gives an early religion and goes well with the color scheme and the Spiritual trait and a focus to build the The Great Library to match the Madrassa as the superior.
Camel Archers are a ways off, but no need to rush Animal Husbandry with Protective archers (border cities on hills, multi-player style-Guerilla and Garrison) My move is to build on the hill, tech Polytheism, set the animation to single figure, auto explore the warrior and hope he scans as much as possible as he gets no rest if wounded because i want him to die anyway to fund better newly built archer units with Guerilla. Then i'd tech Animal Husbandry because i changed my mind and build the second city on a hill on a river on the coast next to a resource of some sort.

I'll think i join this. Have to finish my own game here that's been stalled for a week and most of all the DC costs some time. On the other hand playing until 1 AD before 14 December should be doable. Good start btw.

I think i will auto explore the first warrior btw.It's time to adapt to the strats of the genius and really put these strats to work. I'll also adopt hinduism if it comes around, spurning all other religions. Might mean i have too make a more defensive stance earlier in the game which makes things interesting.

I tried to load this. Got Sid Meier as a leaderhead and about fourteen choices of the American civilisation as a civ. When I clicked OK, I got a CTD. Any thoughts?

I tried to load this. Got Sid Meier as a leaderhead and about fourteen choices of the American civilisation as a civ. When I clicked OK, I got a CTD. Any thoughts?
Uninstall the Attacko mod and try again.

Uninstall the Attacko mod and try again.What is the Attacko mod? Are you saying that he more than just a troll? I've found his trolling to be funny. If he takes over my comp that is something completely different.

No, I was kidding. If there was an Attacko mod, that's probably what it would do.

But I just tried the save and I get exactly the same problem.

Your response WAS funny. Thank you. ;)

However it would be nice to be able to load the save.

I love the attacko mod! Warriors have 80 strength and 7 first strikes, but the AI still chooses to obsolete them! Hahahaha!

I had the same issue as Abegweit upon trying to load the save.

Ah, crap, it's probably the latest version of the unofficial patch. Solver's version (0.19) didn't have any major problem with 3.17, but Dresden's version (0.21) does I guess. I'm not sure what to do here. Maybe someone else could provide a save and in the meantime I'll look in Dresden's thread to see if the problem has been identified.

What patches/mods do you guys have installed? I have 3.17 + Dresden's 0.21 + BUG Mod 3.5.

Hi everyone :hatsoff:,

I have no time this month for another game, I can barely play the already subscribed ones! But if you have problem with maps, I can make one for you Carl... PM me if you need help...

Cheers and have fun!

Ok, RRRaskolnikov's save is on the way (3.17 unpatched) and I posted in Dresden's thread to ask about the problem. I'll probably extend the period for the first round to December 14th. I meant extend past December 14th if people don't manage to play by then. :)

If you created a save with the 50-civ dll running you can only load it with the 50-civ dll. But you can "repair" the save by loading it with the 50-civ, then go to WB and save as a scenario which can then be loaded and played with the normal 18-civ dll (deleting teams and players 18-49 with notepad might be useful).

I did just that plus gave the Barbs their techs again (Hunting, Archery, Agriculture -- they forget these when detouring through WB...). If you choose to play this save, here it is.

So that's a save usable by both the 50 civs DLL games and others? Although I'll probably install the "normal" 18 civs version too. Anyway, thanks. :) Ras has sent me another save in the meantime. Now I have to decide which to use! :lol: May I ask if you think that this save is unbalanced in some way? Maybe we have no strategic resources nearby, or have 4-5 gold waiting for us just outside the capital's fat cross? (sorry to bother you even more :))

I think it's balanced...

Hmmm, the 18-civ save can't be loaded with the 50-civ dll (it doesn't matter whether teams/players 18-49 have been deleted or not). So right now I think the only "interface" between the two versions is WB.

The map looks balanced, a strategic resource is within reach.

Gotcha. I installed the 50 civs version thinking I'll try a slug-fest with more than 18 civs on a standard map at one point, but that won't come very soon. So I guess we'll play from this save and I'll just reinstall the normal 18 civs patch.

Sorry Ras to have bothered you with a save that won't get played. :) Although if anyone's interested I could post it in the thread, or send it to him by email.

DanF5771's corrected save has been inserted in the first post. Thanks for doing all the work. :)

I had some fun playing. Still can't perceive myself playing immortal seriously. I actually managed to expand to three cities (besides settled 1W ) and to build Stonehenge before BC1500.

When despite emergency axes barbs shredded me to pieces. Well, i lost city on marble to barb warrior (okay that was injured half hitpoints axe, but c'mmon axe against warior:cry:). Western one (pigs +corn+riverside grassland) got something like 6barb archers and some wariors stream in three turn window. I probably could hold that one but some barbs cut road towards capital and copper.

Well, learned that good(or at least any) fogbusting is better then stonehenge.

Edit: Couldn't you play once in a year on epic speed. Going both difficulty up and faster speed is not that easy...

Fun game though I don't know if I agree that the start is balanced, I think it's very powerful.

Here's a slipshod attempt at round 1;


Started by building Stonehenge to spend the hammers gained while growing the capital on something worthwile (warrior army didn't qualify).

Settler right after 2-pop whipping SH; tech Masonry and start the great wall. Meanwhile the second city builds a worker while working a copper tile. Wasn't too concerned with not being able to cottage the 2nd city cause it could contribute to worker production as it was.

Finished the Great Wall just in time for the barbarian invasion... I tried to shoot for the Oracle but failed it. Next was to settle next to Stone and build the Pyramids @ +/- 17 turns. Succeeded there and switched to Rep.

Teched Pottery in between, Aesthetics as first "big" tech. Started on the Parthenon, now +/- 6 turns away from completion. Literature is also in at this point. GLib buildable in +/- 15 turns. Currently teching Alphabet for tech trades + ability to bulb Philosophy when a GSci pops up.

Working Madrassa scientists + priests in 1 city, cottages in 2 others, grassland mines in the capital. Capital can work scientists + priests for a total research rate above 80 bpt.

Beaker rate: +/- 56
No of cities: 4
Wonders: Stonehenge, Great Wall, Pyramids, 6 turns to go on Parthenon
Great People: settled GPriest + settled GSpy in capital

Listed in Monarchists Cookbook Bullpen, thanks for the notice, CarlCorey.

I'm certainly feeling a little rusty, but how could I pass on Saladin?

Up to 1ad

Mecca founded 1E

Early Tech:
Ag->Pottery->AH->Mining->BW

I like Hemisphere scripts, and expect a lot of land area. This means a strong economy is important (to support a land grab) -- since we have food and a nice river early pottery seemed good.

I should mention that barbs have been a horrendous pita: by 1ad I've killed:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj294/olodune/barb_kills.jpg

Naturally that had a huge impact on my ability to scout and expand quickly. Oh well.


My second city went to the NE marble, so Mecca could build the oracle:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj294/olodune/oracle_mon.jpg

Monarchy seemed vital since there are very few happy resources within a reasonable radius of our start. Maybe 'mids would work as well, using the southern stone.

Mecca used HR to get up to 13 pop by 1ad, mostly working commerce tiles. The GLib will actually only take 12 turns since the marble will be (re)-connected next turn (barbs).

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj294/olodune/mecca_1ad.jpg

The stunted empire:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj294/olodune/better_over1ad.jpg

Some summary info:

Tech Trades: None (no one has alpha)

Tech Researched: Literature, IW, Monarchy

Religion: Confu (with both Sitting Bull and Rags)

Wars: A quick Rag on SB at around 900bc

Wonders: Oracle, Glib (in progress)

Army: 10 axes, 11 warrs

GP: 1 GPriest (idle), could be used for a Theo bulb, or GA

The plan from here is to get CoL->CS for a very nice Bureaucracy capital

Very poor attempt to 1AD :) Only playing as a shadow game so don't have to worry about any votes. :lol:



I settled 1S in hindsight I think 1E would have been much better and from there things just got much worse. :lol:

My tech rate has been abysmal, Techs went Agr, Hunt, AH, Archery, BW, Masonry, Writing and Pot. I think that is as far as I have got. :lol: Should have gone for writing and pot much earlier. By the time I got around to it my tech rate was a joke and with all the barbs running around (Great Wall would be a huge help on this map) everything is going much slower for me than it should.

Positive points. Not many!!!

I built the Pyramids. Rag and SB have had a short war which I'm hoping will start again soon and thats about it. Lots of land still to settle although the jungle to the North is not very appealing, not many resources or rivers. Lots of desert to the West.

I was planning on going for the GLib (have to now after nearly fininshing Aesth, at least I've unlocked the HE for future wars which I can see happening).

Current Lands.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/SJG12345/Civ4ScreenShot0019-1.jpg

As I wanted to join this game, here is an attempt up to 1AD:


Capital: settled 1E, built an academy there
Cities: 5, most have basic infra (granary, monument, madrassa, Damascus still building madrassa, Najran pretty new)
Pop: 18
Rex: got Gem-city in the north (try to trade IW asap after alpha to improve the gems), will go west now (where I see barb borders)
Workers: 7
Troops: 4 Warriors
Wonders: GW (just in time before a massive barb rising), Parth, GLib
Techs: don't remember exactly, I think: Ag-Min-BW-Mas-Pottery-AH-Writing-Aesth-Poly-Lit-Alpha
Tech speed seems to be rather slow everywhere. The Oracle went somewhen around 500BC! (should have tried building it!). And nobody on my continent has alpha so far.
Religion: adopted Confu (from SB)
Other civs: long war between SB and Ragnar. SB is Confu, Ragnar pagan.

The Empire:
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg296/CellKu/ImCBSaladinEmpire1AD.jpg

And the Capital:
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg296/CellKu/ImCBSaladinCapital1AD.jpg

I am not sure whether I will find sufficient time before Xmas to continue. If not, I will shadow it.

I should title my save "Saladin the wonder whore"


I settled in the spot, then settled city #2 and #3 in quick succession around 2000 BC. #2 went to the stone to the south and #3 to the bronze to the east. I then built the GW, Pyramids, and ToA (was hoping for cash). I'm currently running a haphazard madrassa fueled SE. I think philosophy for AW will be very powerful with representation + the UB.

My research has finally started to pick up again (I didn't get writing until about 1000 BC) and my GNP is #1 in the world. Just got the triple gems city and will soon start rexing into the jungle to claim more land as I tech currency.

I'm in a fake war with SB right now. Ragnar is doing most of the warring and I'm just sitting tight. If we need peace, I can always give SB alphabet. But I haven't seen any troops heading in our direction yet so I've left it as is.

I also got a GSpy which I settled. I thought about sending it after Ragnar but he didn't look to be teching particularly fast. Plus the 6 beakers from settling was nothing to sneeze at.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/shyuhe/immortal%20cookbook/Civ4ScreenShot0030.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/shyuhe/immortal%20cookbook/Civ4ScreenShot0036.jpg

Round 1 to 1 AD:



Techs: Ag, Pottery, AH, Hunting, Archery, Mining, BW, Masonry, Med, PH, Writing, COL (via Oracle), Fishing, Sailing, Alphabet, IW (trade), Aesthetics, Poly, Lit.

4000: I decided to settle 1E to get riverside and 2 FPs. I start on Worker + Ag.

3600: Ag -> Pottery. With the FPs and having The Wheel as start tech I decided to go for early pottery.

3520: Meet Ragnar's scout from northeast

3440: Meet SB's scout in north, coming from west.

3200: Pottery -> AH.

2720: AH -> Hunting, no horses so I go for archery.

2680: Finish my 3rd warrior in row after the initial worker and grow to cap of 5, start on settler.

2520: Hunting -> Archery.

2320: Archery -> Mining, finish Settler start on archers/workers.

2280: I settle Medina. Fast access to marble which is good since I planned for Oracle at this point and I get to work all FPs since I also want a city to get the 2 fish in the south.

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn131/Gliese5812/Sal430000.jpg

2160: Mining -> BW.

1960: SH BIDL.

1840: BW -> Masonry.

1680: Masonry -> Meditation.

1600: Judaism FIDL.

1520: TGW BIDL.

1480: Med -> PH.

1360: PH -> Writing, start on Oracle.

1160: Writing -> Fishing.

1080: Fishing -> Sailing. Finish Oracle, pick COL. The reason for this is that neither Ragnar or SB who are the only ones on our continent from what it appeared, has gotten a religion. With the madrassa and spiritual cheap temples it's also easy for us to generate a GP and found a shrine. When religion spreads in the other two camps this should provide a great source of income it will also help me get Ragnar to friendly along with HR. Confu is founded in Medina, I spread it to Mecca with the missionary.

925: Sailing -> Alphabet.

875: Settle 3rd city.

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn131/Gliese5812/Sal800000.jpg

600: SB converts to confucianism.

575: Alphabet -> Aesthetics. I go for the GL next. I trade with SB.

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn131/Gliese5812/Sal920000.jpg

500: Ragnar converts to confu.

425: SB threaten for Med, I accept. Ragnar is WHEOOHRN.

375: Ragnar DOWs SB. I decide to cancel OB with SB to reduce the risk of demerits. Ragnar is all that is needed for trade routes right now.

350: 4th city. In hindsight I should have put it 1W or 1N as I wasn't ready to run caste for an artist at this point and it's unlikely I can settle all the land in this area anyhow so the wasted grasslands to the east won't matter.

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn131/Gliese5812/Sal1010001.jpg

275: Aest -> Poly. A GP is born in Medina and I use him to build the shrine there.

175: Poly -> Lit. Found 5th city. This will be a good target for Moai and is probably a good idea for the NE as well, don't you just love having both marble and stone? (6 specialists at size 10 working fish and fp cottages).

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn131/Gliese5812/Sal1080000.jpg

150: Jew Shrine BIDL.

1AD: Finish Lit and round.

Empire shot:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn131/Gliese5812/Sal1150000.jpg

Rest of the continent, Ragnar NE, SB NW.

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn131/Gliese5812/Sal1150001.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn131/Gliese5812/Sal1150002.jpg

I found the gems relatively late in my scouting, it's not yet taken and I have a settler en route as you can see.

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn131/Gliese5812/Sal1150007.jpg

Capital is building a Madrassa. I've put research to Monotheism next (although not before taking pics) which will make Monarchy (a priority tech) cheaper and which will coincide with Mecca growing to size 7 at which point I can switch civics to both Slavery and OR and whip Madrassa with OR bonus then start on GL and get the production bonus going the entire time there as well.

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn131/Gliese5812/Sal1150003.jpg

Medina, building monastery here turned out to be a little superfluos at this point but I didn't decide on going for OR until at the end of my set. Shrine good for 6 gold but hopefully the AI will start to spread it actively once their war stops. I don't know yet if I want them to continue fighting or not, I could bribe for peace a couple of turns ago and probably still but held off for now.

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn131/Gliese5812/Sal1150004.jpg

Techs, can trade for Maths with Ragnar but that would give me demerit from SB:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn131/Gliese5812/Sal1150005.jpg

Demograhpics:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn131/Gliese5812/Sal1150006.jpg

Priorities right now is getting Monarchy for HR since happiness is badly needed and CS to run Bur.
I'm also thinking of getting more priests though (after an academy for the capital) and maybe try for the AP with a theo bulb. With cheap temples the AP+UoS would be an awesome combo and help me convince my neighbours to stay in my religion (esp if SB don't manage to found christianity before me or someone on the other continent).
Damascus GSs are only temporary to ensure Mono is in 2 turns from now then it should probably switch back to production to utilize all of its good tiles.
Oh and I forgot to mention I've unlocked the HE (twice).

Looks like I won't make it for this round. I'll let you vote starting tomorrow morning and I'll try to get in a shadow game just to see how things are going and only look at your saves afterwards. Good luck everybody!

The question is if we vote if we don't get more saves. We only have 5 saves submitted thus far. Perhaps we should convert it to an immortal university games where everyone is free to run from any save, unless we get a few more by tomorrow?

Alright, saw this on the forum tonight so I just gave it a shot now. I'll be back in a few hours to read over how everyone else did.




2680 BC
This was really weird. I ended up making StoneHenge, before TGW. This is because of Saladin’s really weird starting techs.

And masonry will kick in right on time. I guess I should eventually start researching food techs for the corn and cow now since this is hemispheres-map and I probably wont be able to trade for them for a long time???

http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/3/12/14/obsolete/f_sal2680bcm_abf6c5f.jpg


2120 BC
The Great Wall ready for completion. Now I can pour more materials into infrastructure instead of defense for a while.

http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/3/12/14/obsolete/f_sal2120bcm_0d296be.jpg

1400 BC
Damnit, we popped a G-Spy. Oh well…sorry guys.


1360 BC

I whip city down to 1 pop just to make sure we don’t lose the Oracle race. Haha!
I chose Iron Working, partly because its very expensive.

Note: If we were doing Emperor, I’d have researched Writing first, then used it to take Aesthetics instead.

http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/3/12/14/obsolete/f_sal1360bcm_395eea9.jpg


750 BC
Stone-City is founded!

After fog busting in a counter clockwise order around the capital, I froze my warrior there for the longest time to make sure nothing else settles there like barbs to mess up my future plans.


625 BC
Ragnar attacks SB!


400 BC
We keep getting warnings of enemies spotted hear Home! I don’t know we get this warning when I have TGW???

Oh, and we pop a Great Priest. Yipppeeeee!


350 BC
Sitting Bull makes peace with Ragnar!
Temple of Solomon has been built somewhere… anyone have any ideas on who that could be? Hehe.

300 BC
The Pyramids is ready for completion.

Note: mathematics is en route. I am trying to take a shot at the Hanging Gardens since I don’t want our stone to go to waste. While math research is finishing off, I’ll build a library. I was tempted to finish the library first, which is optimal, but not if there is a risk that the Mids would be lost.

http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/3/12/14/obsolete/f_sal300bcm_ae12f41.jpg


1 AD
Hmm. Here you go, an inside shot.

Let me know if you like it.

Oh, and as for other notes… Another settler is on its way to found our 3’rd city. This puts me at the halfway point for my empire goal.


http://img37.picoodle.com/img/img37/3/12/14/obsolete/f_sal1m_270e698.jpg

@all: Don't forget that this map is low sea level.

I have been having serious Internet access issues for more than a week. Have tried to post this repeatedly. I simply cannot get any attachments, pics or games, to work. Getting a new modem on Tuesday. Hopefully that will solve it. In the meantime, here's the story.

I'm almost embarrassed to submit this game since I popped Silver in the capital. It was very early too, around 2500BC. To top it off I got Iron as well although that was almost at the end of the round. I'm not sure to what extent this really changed the outcome but it sure couldn't have hurt!

Settled 1S to get off the hill and onto the river. Plus the tiles in the second tier to the north of the start are weak. Wasn't sure what would be on the other side but it would be unlikely to be worse. Turned out to be marginally better. The biggest difference, of course, was that I skillfully avoided building the city on the Silver. What talent!

I started teching Agri-Mining-BW. When my scouting warrior discovered that we had both stone and marble (not to mention copper) in the neighbourhood, I decided to try an SSE/WE so I next went after Masonry. It was about here that I found the Silver. It hurt a bit for those critical early wonders, as it reduces the hammer output of a mine. OTOH, the payback in research comes real quick.

Back to the game. Build order was worker-warrior-worker-Stonehenge. That was triple-chopped, as was the GW after it. Next came a settler to capture the stone, also partially chopped. Then the Pyramids, which were largely built from scratch. On the tech side, I went to AH for the cattle and sheep and then continued on my wonder-hogging ways with Polytheism, Writing, Priesthood, Aesthetics and Literature. Squeezed IW in somewhere. I duly landed the Oracle (took CoL and Got Religion), Parthenon, ToA and GL. Now working on the NE. Also have a couple of turns into the Chicken, which can be claimed at leisure.

Just popped my third GP, a scientist. The others were a Priest and a Spy, both settled. It seems obvious to me to build an Academy with this guy but I haven't done it in case the game is chosen and someone wants to do something else. The AI seems to be teching really slow. I recall Obsolete saying that this happens when you grab all the wonders.

Sit-Rep.

The capital has been wonder-obsessed so overall empire development has suffered. We are weak and don't have enough workers. Fortunately, the AIs are at war so there's no real worries about surprise attacks. OTOH, I have lots of demerit points for refusing to get involved.

Just founded cities four and five, one at the gems to the north and the other at the double-fish to the east. For quite a while we were making money with the slider at 100%. It has just crashed to 30%. We're still doing decent however, due mostly to the five GP hanging out in Mecca. It will soon get better quickly as the gems come on line, the scientists get hired and the courthouses constructed. Oh yes, there's that Academy too.

Still don't know Pottery. Gotta get around to that. At 1AD :lol: First, though, Math for the HG. That's due in two turns. Maybe after that. OTOH, Theology beckons. In retrospect, maybe it was a mistake to settle the Priest.



Mecca. Note the silver mine on the starting tile.
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm171/abegweit/ICbIIIMecca.jpg



Culture Map. There is a road to the northern Gems. One worker is there with another on the way.
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm171/abegweit/ICbIIIEmpire.jpg

@all: Don't forget that this map is low sea level.

What are you getting at?

The question is if we vote if we don't get more saves. We only have 5 saves submitted thus far. Perhaps we should convert it to an immortal university games where everyone is free to run from any save, unless we get a few more by tomorrow?

We already had a vote on the rules and no, people didn't want to change to a immortal university format. I'd make this round last longer but it wouldn't be fair for those who tried hard to get their saves in yesterday. People can still play shadows of the first round if they want to and then pick up the best save from round 1 and go from there. I'll make round 2 last longer so that those who want can catch up.

That said, I think I'll give people one more day to submit saves. I probably won't be able to do it since I'm busy this evening, but if others can, I'll accept their saves. Voting begins tomorrow.

That said, I think I'll give people one more day to submit saves. I probably won't be able to do it since I'm busy this evening, but if others can, I'll accept their saves. Voting begins tomorrow.

Great, I'm very nearly done and will be able to get my save in for tonight. Still a bit more rushed thatn I would have liked :cry:

What are you getting at?

Lots of land to settle and lots of barbs.

Well, "low" is probably the most common choice for the "sea level" option. It's like telling people to be careful because the map size is standard. It usually is.

Is low the standard choice? I always play normal so I'm not used to low sea level maps.

With hemispheres and big & small I usually use normal as well -- these scripts already have a lot of land.

1ad:

The Great Wall really payed off for those who took the gamble. :goodjob: I would generally be very nervous building it with stone from a second city since it often is BIADL very early. Of those who did get it I like shyuhe and (probably) Abegweit so far. My only worry is whether the HE is enabled in those games.

Well, standard as in "most used on these forums". :) I don't know if it was the original option, or if the default option differs for each map type.

With hemispheres and big & small I usually use normal as well -- these scripts already have a lot of land.

1ad:

The Great Wall really payed off for those who took the gamble. :goodjob: I would generally be very nervous building it with stone from a second city since it often is BIADL very early. Of those who did get it I like shyuhe and (probably) Abegweit so far. My only worry is whether the HE is enabled in those games.



I hardly think getting TGW on Immortal is a gamble.

I hardly think getting TGW on Immortal is a gamble.



Using your build order I agree -- but you sacrifice growth and settlers. shyuhe finished two settlers before TGW, risky (imo) but with a big payback.

1080: Fishing -> Sailing. Finish Oracle, pick COL. The reason for this is that neither Ragnar or SB who are the only ones on our continent from what it appeared, has gotten a religion. With the madrassa and spiritual cheap temples it's also easy for us to generate a GP and found a shrine. When religion spreads in the other two camps this should provide a great source of income it will also help me get Ragnar to friendly along with HR. Confu is founded in Medina, I spread it to Mecca with the missionary.


I had been thinking on this in my game as well. I was thinking on gifting techs to SB so he can go up the philo-route, and found taosim. Then HE can spread it to me, and HE can turn all my cities into Taos, and then HE can waste a GP on building the shrine.

Then, after that is all said & done, I can go and take it from him. What do you think about it?

Here's my save. I'll embellish with screenshots later - EDIT: added screenshots now

I seem to be one of the few people that didn't manage to get the Oracle! I got beaten by 5 turns. But I did manage to get the Pyramids and then tech CoL first. I used the missionary to spread Conf to Ragner who is now one of the faithful. I also got a Great Prophet who founded the shrine in Damascus.

Barbs were a pain in the bum but I was ready for them with a few Axemen and they didn't cause too much trouble.

Empire overview:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q277/Kaleb79/1ADEmpire.jpg

Main Cities overview:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q277/Kaleb79/1ADDamascus.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q277/Kaleb79/1ADMedina.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q277/Kaleb79/1ADDamascus.jpg

Tech trade situation:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q277/Kaleb79/1ADTechs.jpg

I've only just got Alpha and Ragnar doesn't want to trade. SB won't speak with me as he's upset with me for cutting trade ties. That was a mistake on my part. I should have canceld the OB as soon as he got the war dec from Ragnar.

Globe view:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q277/Kaleb79/1ADGlobe.jpg

Demographics:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q277/Kaleb79/1ADDemog-1.jpg

I still can't access the Internet from home but Sneakernet works everywhere. :D so I brought stuff into work from home and updated my original post.

Given I certainly agree that building the Great Wall really helps on this map. I can't claim to have realized that when I did it. I was just madly grabbing wonders.

What is the difference exactly? The barbs weren't that bad in ICbII and we had plenty of open spaces in that game too. Olodune, wow! :eek:

Now that the saves are delayed one day i just have time to join. Thought i wouldn't have time today but turns out i can't play tomorrow but can play today. One thing in advance, low sea levels is certainly not the norm afaik and i didn't like it much. I'll explain in the spoiler.

Settled 1e because the warrior sees 2 fp's. Explored with the warrior and soon found out that the ais, Rag and SB, are enormously far away.They both seem to be in the north, didn't venture to far into the west but i think there's a lot of land there too. Went AG-POT. I could have gone AH, the cow sure is important but having some cottages up early helps enormously with BW/AH later. After POT i go Min/BW. Again AH is an option but i may need some heavy chopping soon.

My build order in capital was worker-worker-grow to 2 once corn is improved-worker-warrior. I do this almost always nowadays, it hardly costs since the second tile is unimproved, the surplus 3 food is now used for a very useful second worker instead of working a second useless tile. I do calculate that when the second tile is improved i'm at size 2.

Find bronze near capital, stall 2 warriors in the neighbourhood to fogbust. Settle there next and connect the copper. My second worker is already chopping so i can get the first axe out immed.

1500 BC Barbs on a rampage
Turns out soon that i need a lot, from 1500 BC on i'm getting hammered by barbarians as i've never been hammered before. I had expected barb problems so i had roaded in between my 2 cities a lot but this surpassed my wildest dreams, wondered what a low sea level map means on deity. Helped by chopping I have 5 axes up in short time and i never got pillaged but the constant annoyance of barbs may have meant i lost focus at some points (i researched med instead of poly for instance). It certainly meant i could not expand outward before ~1200 BC because i needed all the axes near my 2 cities to defend myself.

1080 BC Oracle
Around 1800 BC Oracle hasn't been build yet, i had researched masonry by then since the marble seems like a good tile in itself, so i give it a try. With marble it's no more expensive than a granary and i get it pretty soon with a chop,copper and marble.I didn't find choosing a Tech too difficult here, as good as Col is i need happiness badly with all the juicy tiles i have so Monarchy it is. This allows me to work good tiles and assign scientists at the same time when the capital's size is 8.If alpha is teched soon i'll gift it to Rag and get him to pleased this way.

925 BCDamascus founded
Finally i get some air and i use it to get an axe, a settler and a worker on the long journey north, 3 gems a wheat and a lot of jungle is awaiting us there.This city will also have a lot of blocking value so it's imo simple a must to build it despite the high maintenance.Damascus is founded 925 BC. Later on my other workers find some time to build a road to it,these workers also had a fogbusting role, a nice side effect.

925BC-1AD
After monarchy things get a lot easier, i assign 2 scientists, i still can grow the capital to 8 pretty soon so i can keep working 2 resources and 4 cottages. Capital is at happy cap for the moment, i could have built warriors but there's nothing improved near the capital so i queue workers instead. My second city Medina is good as long as it can work copper/marble and 4 cottages, it's unhealty however so growing it further seems a bit pointless. So i also queue settlers/workers here sometimes whipping since the city's none too happy.

Since i had mistakenly researched med first i have to research poly now. I had accumulated 350 gold waiting for the madrassa's so i can research 100% for a while.Get poly in 2 turns. Proceed with aest/lit. I go for Parthenon and GL in Medina/Mecca now.

I have built 2 other cities in the meantime, the obvious double fish city which is coming online nicely already. In the sheep/wheat city a monument has just been built, once borders pop we can do nice things there.

1 AD it's certain i can get both wonders now with a whip. But it's probably fairly safe to finish them the normal way since the wonder build rate has been low this game.

I have just finished IW and i've begun mining the gems. Since i have 6 workers and the chopping for Part/GL has been done i can assign ~3 of my workers to get this great city up and running. The other 3 workers will continue cottaging near the capital and improving near Narjan (the sheep city). Focus'll be on getting some more workers so more cottages can be worked. A barb city has gone up near the corn pig spot so i'll build some extra axes too to take this city.

Since my gold is depleted techrate's not that high right now, this'll improve drastically soon when sailing(next turn), gems and GL are online and more cottages are worked.

Overview, No techscreen since annoyingly no one has alpha.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s256/dirk1302/Civ4ScreenShot0000-15.jpg

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s256/dirk1302/Civ4ScreenShot0001-13.jpg

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s256/dirk1302/Civ4ScreenShot0002-12.jpg

About low sea level, imo there are 2 distinct problems with this.

First constantly fighting barbs is no fun. I was prepared but everytime i killed some 4 of them i saw several red signs on the edges of the screen next turn meaning reinforcements of the barbarian army were on the way. Barbs are part of the game but this seems excessive. I killed 21 archers, 23 warriors, read Olodune got hammered even harder, i feel for him.

Secondly now the barbs have been conquered the map seems very easy with all the expanding room. A more crowded map is more of a challenge.

I saw in a few games that GW was build, one time 1200 BC. I hope you didn't depend on getting this wonder for barb protection, seems like an enormous gamble to me if this was the case. It got built in my game 1560 BC while there are certainly no wonder hogs about. Could easily have been pre 2000 bc as the ais are rather fond of this wonder.

Using your build order I agree -- but you sacrifice growth and settlers. shyuhe finished two settlers before TGW, risky (imo) but with a big payback.


Ahh, well yes I agree with you there then. I also was sort of surprised when I saw the walls around TWO other cities. That's sort of like pushing it with a prayer, but maybe he was only trying to build wealth and got the wonder by accident?

His tech isn't the best right now, but I'm sure he'll catch up great in the future. That's the problem with expansion.

What I really found interesting is he went or ToA! Haha. I totally forgot about that one.

@Obsolete and Olodune (and others)

I think relying on GW on this map after 2000 BC is sheer lunacy. In my case if i had started it instead of chopping/whipping out 5 solid axes i'd just have been dead if i missed it on this map that seems like an easy win to me if you just survive the initial onslaught.You can't play a game that way imo.

@Obsolete, i don't have problems with the way you played it, chances for success were high since you built it 2120 BC iirc. You sacrificed a lot for it too ignoring AG/AH.

A bit harsh maybe but i'm inclined to exclude the saves that built GW after 2000 bc, at least for the top position.Edit: i mean in my own vote, i don't want to suggest here that these saves should be taken out by Carl. There's no way i could have done that in my game and afford missing it. I feel that this may be a problem of the cookbook format altogether, you may need to gamble this way to get the best save in but i seriously don't think this is optimal play. In the end i value solid play more than what may be the best position 1 AD.

@Dirk

I don't think that any save should be banned from voting. In any case, the only way this could happen is if Carl decided it on his own. If you want to give reasons why you think that a particular game is worthy or unworthy of consideration you are, of course, welcome to do so.

In my case, I really feel guilty about my huge luck with the metals. OTOH, luck is part of this game. For example, not everyone w/o the GW got clobbered by barbs. I wonder whether it's really right to turn off random events. I personally like them. There's something wrong with keeping the slider at 0 gold. The Goody Huts are a different story. The human never gets anything from them anyway.

@Abegweit

No way i'm suggesting that these saves should be taken out of the vote by Carl, that would be extremely arrogant. It's just that i'm reluctant myself to vote for saves that have been played this way. I'm very sorry if this wasn't clear, i have edited my previous post in this respect.. I even feel i would go too far myself if i excluded this saves entirely out of my own vote, in the end apart from the imo dubious build of GW these games may have been played very well. (Your save is pretty good for instance, i can't see when GW is built btw here because your save crashes if if i try to view the log). I do feel gameplay/saves should be judged over the whole time frame and not only on the vote position. But in the end everyone's free to vote the way he/she likes.

This is the second cookbook game i play and while i find them to be very enjoyable there are some aspects to the format that don't sit entirely right with me. I'd like to start a discussion about this after i have finished the DC so i have a better overall view . But one of the aspects i have already mentioned here is that i feel that in comparision to other games i've seen there's more of a gambling element. I also feel when playing myself that i have to make certain deadlines at the voting point. But i'll get back to all of this later in the discussion thread.

@Dirk

We're on the same wavelength on what to do about voting :goodjob:

As for my game, you're not the first person to have problems with the log. I have some myself sometimes. I think that I am going to have to break down and re-install everything. But you can see the date when the GW was built if you look in the wonders screen: 2080BC

@Abegweit

Wonderscreen, missed that completely :blush:. That's a good gamble then since your success rate is rather high and you'll have time to recover if it fails. Going to have to study your game more closely, i may not be the greatest wonderbuilder of all time but i thought about GW ~3000 BC as i saw the huge amounts of unoccupied lands. Decided i'd have to sacrifice too much to pull it off also since i had begun POT already i felt i was on the wrong tech track. Anyway your save's in for my vote :goodjob:.

Strange about the log, i'd certainly advise a reinstall, it should work correctly, i use it a lot to fill in the details for reports. Wished it had a more cooperative layout though.

There's no way i could have done that in my game and afford missing it. I feel that this may be a problem of the cookbook format altogether, you may need to gamble this way to get the best save in but i seriously don't think this is optimal play. In the end i value solid play more than what may be the best position 1 AD.

I agree with you 100% and have been mentioning this for years. The hall of fame games suffer from the same issue. The ones that win with the highest scores are just about always the worst played, yet everyone likes to "ohhhh ahhh" at the highscore/early finish. Totally oblivious that it was a less than 1% shot to pull through.

I'll always prefer the solid play as well, though this doesn't mean unorthodox plays don't count. I just don't like gambles. I do gamble time to time, but only when I have a backup if it fails.

@Dirk

I'm assuming you mean my save with the 1200 BC GW. I was rather surprised myself that I was able to complete it so late. I was only building it because my capital had nothing better to build (other than axes) at that point if I recall. I had messed up my tech order (combined with city settling) and couldn't build any more workers/settlers until I hit writing. I didn't want to build too many axes because I didn't want to pay maintenance for them - hence the GW was the only thing left to build.

@shyuhe

That explains a lot and it makes sense, 1200 BC's too late even if you get it some damage would certainly have been done if you hadn't had other protection. Did you see a lot of barbs btw? I was itching to build something else (workers/settlers/madrassa) in the cap apart from axes but really couldn't do it for some time. I had writing by that time which makes a lot of difference of course. If it comes to workers btw i'm not too afraid of maintenance they're so important imo even if all they can do is road building.

@Dirk


I didn't see many barbs when I built the GW. My southern city got a few warriors and archers but that was pretty much it. Maybe my early rexing killed some of the barb spawn rate because it erased fog tiles. Of course it also killed my tech rate (which forced me to stop expanding). So I agree that my game was unsound - because I teched masonry and planted 2 cities before teching pottery :lol: It's more that the GW bailed out my early mistake, not that I gambled my game on it.

As for workers, I passed on them because I figured GW would turn into gold and get me to pottery/writing.

Ok, time's up, the saves posted so far are the ones entering the vote. Voting starts today and finishes Friday morning. No need for spoilers anymore, even for people posting shadows for this round. I remind you again that no shadows or saves for the future rounds are permitted until this one's done.

Now that the saves are delayed one day i just have time to join. Thought i wouldn't have time today but turns out i can't play tomorrow but can play today. One thing in advance, low sea levels is certainly not the norm afaik and i didn't like it much. I'll explain in the spoiler.

My bad, I must have set my sea level to low a long time ago, I don't remember ever playing differently. I'll make a bet here and say that the problem you explained in the spoiler is that you're swamped with barbs. :lol:

^You must be clairvoyant :lol:.

I wonder how much easier games would be with medium sea level. Even on continents with low sea level you get a lot of barbs on Emperor, which makes getting a counter unit or the Great Wall a priority. And by "a" counter unit I mean Axemen or Chariots+Archers. Chariots alone will have a hard time dealing with barb Spearmen, and Archers alone aren't really an option when you have to protect several tiles.

It's probably easier on low sea level as you need to worry about barbs but don't need to worry about expanding room. The barbs are more of an annoyance than a real threat.

Strange about the log, i'd certainly advise a reinstall, it should work correctly, i use it a lot to fill in the details for reports. Wished it had a more cooperative layout though.The log doesn't cause me any problems. For me, the only effect is that occasionally I can't see back more than a few hundred years and re-loading seems to solve that. As I only ever use it in order to check events in the last round (the enemy has been spotted...), I didn't even know there was an issue until Carl (?) pointed it out in another thread. I'm pretty sure that it's a BUG issue. I tried upgrading to the latest version but apparently that didn't work.

If it was just me, I'd live with it. But if I am going to continue to submit games to the community, I'd better fix it. So I will try a re-install. Probably sometime over the Holidays.

the log crash is because you have an extra file left over from an older version of BUG. Ask the guys in charge of BUG as they can tell you what file to delete. I'm not remembering it off the top of my head.

As for looking at saves, I'm a little busy with work so I won't have time to comment but I'll post votes at least (as opposed to the deity cookbook where I didn't even have time to vote :lol:).

^ But you don't have to right now, you can vote until friday in the DC. About bugmod, simplest is clearing the custom/assets folder, then reinstall bug. Should work.

I meant that in the context of I'm busy until Christmas, unfortunately. I should have the time to look at 9 saves between now and Friday. I think :hide:

My votes are:

1. Abegweit
2. Dirk1302
3. CellKu

The games with the GW look like they had an easier time expanding, but Dirk's game shows that you can still expand quite well without the GW. Abegweit's game with the wonder whoring is just plain ridiculous...

Btw I updated my earlier post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7552440&postcount=50) with some screenshots

Btw I updated my earlier post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7552440&postcount=50) with some screenshots

Kaleb, you uploaded the wrong save for your game.

AARGH - that was the last cookbook series :aargh::aargh::aargh:

Ok, I've corrected it now.

Apologies for being a bumbass

Do we HAVE ta vote? I think this game is impossible to lose no matter who's save is picked.

Maybe we should just pick the worst one, to make it challenging? :P

We've had this discussion before. :rolleyes: Vote, and vote for the best save. If you feel like you can win the game from turn 0 on Immortal then maybe this setup is too easy for you. Just move on to the Deity Cookbook and leave the Immortal Cookbook for people who want to play Immortal.

^Agreed about moving onto a higher diff if this doesn't suit. I know that i was rather rash and harsh to judge about the GW being founded, thinking it's a bit of a gamble. Learned from Abegweit and Shyuhe that i was just plain wrong in assuming that they'd had gambled this way.

Having said that i think voting is a personal process and i think it's entirely correct to vote for a playing style that you think is correct on a particular map.There is no reason at all to vote always for the save that's strictly most promising. If you think the way it's been played is not the soundest way to play the map you should be free to choose another save. I might do so and i would be confident to defend my point of view.

OTOH, i've looked at some saves and i'm certainly not so childish as to deny the merit of Abegweit's save which is great. He didn't take a mortal risk with GW because he finished before 2000 BC. Have to look at the other saves but this seems to be a winner. Why Abeg isn't featuring in the DC is beyond me btw :eek:.

OTOH, i've looked at some saves and i'm certainly not so childish as to deny the merit of Abegweit's save which is great. He didn't take a mortal risk with GW because he finished before 2000 BC. Have to look at the other saves but this seems to be a winner. Why Abeg isn't featuring in the DC is beyond me btw :eek:.Thanks for the compliments. IMO, they are somewhat unmerited. I normally play Emperor and mostly as a past-time. My mania is laying down a perfect beginning. I blow away the AI and then lose interest in the game. Rarely go past Liberalism and often don't reach it. I finish very few. Only recently started trying higher levels.

I did try the current DC. My game was middling decent, far from the top. In contrast with this one, I got hit HARD by the barbs. I wanted to ask some questions about the game but my Internet problems prevented that.

Abegweit: From what I've seen recently you've had several saves chosen as best in immortal games and been one of the dominating players so I'd say you're ready to try deity if I am. :)

Voting on this one feels a bit moot since it's clearly the best save submitted but I'll get around to it.

@Gliese

I'm surprised that I didn't try the higher levels sooner. This is only my third Immortal game. The first ended in tears and the second was the previous cookbook. I think it's time I moved up for my offline games as well.

My only Deity attempt so far was the cookbook. My experience was kinda like yours in this game. I played conservatively through to the 1800BC checkpoint and was glad of it as I got pounded by the barbs. Then I read the thread and found that everyone had gone wonder-happy. :lol: To add insult, they were all explaining how you don't need to worry on barbs on this kind of map. :rolleyes: My position seems reasonable but I really can't say as I don't have any feel for the level. After beating me up, the barbs proceeded to do me a favour by setting up nice blocking cities for me to take at my leisure. I may try to continue the game during the Holidays.

Since I think I'm supposed to be voting:

After looking at reports I'm convinced the best approach would have been TGW+GLib+<maybe one more wonder -- 'Mids, Oracle> focused on economy and land claiming. Due to the large landmass I don't think wonderspam + settled GP is optimal for this map (I'm not saying it won't work).

While I agree with Dirk1302 that this format rewards risky play -- I've chosen to evaluate the saves solely based on the 1ad situation.

1) shyuhe -- excellent expansion + good wonders + gem city (including the wheat :goodjob: )

2) Dirk1302 -- my favorite of the non-GW games

3) Abegweit -- Excellent solid play (helped by the silver). Slightly under-expanded for my tastes.

I find the voting quite hard here, i may have missed one but am i the only one who built an academy? Seems that marble and stone bring out the wonder builder in participants. I generally have a different playing style and i just find it hard to judge the merits of all those wonders.

Anyway,

1. Abegweit, this one was easy, expanding to 5 cites including the imo very important gem city (but without wheat? i don't understand this fully but i suppose you didn't want to annoy Rag since he's cautious) and still building so much wonders is quite an achievement

2. Gliese, i like the plan that's followed here. The conf shrine will indeed make a lot of money later on. It also gave security early in the game. I take it the GL is going to be chopped next in the capital and an academy will be installed asap. Gems city will also be settled so while it looks a bit iffy now all will be well in due time.

3. Shyuhe. Very good expansion, also gems + wheat. Mids take care of the happiness which is very important on this map. I'm not so fond of the mids but here they come in very handy. The wonders i really care about, Part and GL aren't there though and since aest hasn't been researched i feel these might well be missed.

Honourable mention to Obsolete's save, if you can just shrug your shoulders at an irrigated corn, going mining-BW first researching AG as an afterthought 1480 BC, and still win these games you have truly mastered the game :goodjob:.

... very important gem city (but without wheat? i don't understand this fully but i suppose you didn't want to annoy Rag since he's cautious)The city is simply misplaced. :blush: I missed the other spot totally. In my defence, I expected to utilize the food resource which is in SB's borders to the north and then to settle another city to the east. Unfortunately, SB's city expanded borders right after I settled. You can see in the save that the worker is building a road to the food, not to the gems. I expect to win a culture battle for it but clearly it won't be soon.

Yes, build another wonder there :lol:. Seriously though i think that culture fight is indeed winnable.

I find the voting quite hard here, i may have missed one but am i the only one who built an academy?

Ohh I got plenty of Academys beat already...

Academy = 50% Sci boost
Rep = 100% Sci boost

Academy affects only in city it's build.
Rep affects EVERY city you own



And for the record, TGL is on its way just in case Rep is not up to your fancy...

But you only have 1 city (well there will be some satellites later i know). I should have rep and you the academy. Seriously though, if you're going to settle a load of great people then Mids is obviously great. But i think that if you plan on heavy bulbing it's not that useful. I used to build it sometimes in the past and it just didn't do much for me because i didn't bend my game towards the wonder.

I was intending to experiment a bit more with settling specs, seems i get a good chance in this game.

Ohh I got plenty of Academys beat already...

Academy = 50% Sci boost
Rep = 100% Sci boost

Academy affects only in city it's build.
Rep affects EVERY city you own



And for the record, TGL is on its way just in case Rep is not up to your fancy...Well, I have Rep AND TGL. Not to mention that there's a GS hanging around if an Academy also suits your fancy. :mischief:

Seriously though, if you're going to settle a load of great people then Mids is obviously great. But i think that if you plan on heavy bulbing it's not that useful.I really can't agree. Rep has two principal advantages: happies in your top cities and science from your specialists. Yes, it tends to favour settling over bulbing but it's still good in the latter case because your specialists are producing more.

If you have stone and wood, it's silly not to build the Mids. Unlocking HR, PS and US isn't to be sneered at either

We have only 3 votes so far. Could more people vote today so that we can start round 2? If not I'll go with the best current save, which is Abegweit's.

I really can't agree. Rep has two principal advantages: happies in your top cities and science from your specialists. Yes, it tends to favour settling over bulbing but it's still good in the latter case because your specialists are producing more.

If you have stone and wood, it's silly not to build the Mids. Unlocking HR, PS and US isn't to be sneered at either On this map it's great for early happiness which was badly needed. Often you find 1 or 2 happy resources and trade for monarchy ~400 bc or other happy resources. My cities are seldom beyond 7 at that stage. The science bonus from the specialists in a bulbing strategy looks nice but is negligible compared to the amount of bulbed beakers.And after having bulbed lib you're close to constitution. The higher the level the less important Mids are imo because:

- you can indeed trade for monarchy/happy resources early
- Also due to trading with the other ais you'll reach constitution earlier, on deity constitution is generally teched between 500-1000 AD.

If i had to compare saves that were exactly equal here but one had the gem city, the other mids i would always take the one with the gem city. And the gem city is much cheaper hammer wise.

My votes:

1. Abegweit
2. Dirk
3. Cellku

My votes:

1. Gliese
2. Abegweit
3. Dirk

My first place goes to Gliese because he's mostly doing what I was trying to do but that bit better! He got Oracle and I didn't. 2nd city placement is better and overall city specialisation looks well thought through already. Abeg's save is very strong but Gliese is the save I would most like to play myself.

If i had to compare saves that were exactly equal here but one had the gem city, the other mids i would always take the one with the gem city. And the gem city is much cheaper hammer wise.These are second sites. The question is how best your capital interacts with your other cities. With the Mids, I rate the double-fish to be about the equal of the triple gems. I can get two scientists up in the double-fish fast. With Caste, I can get several more.

What's more two-food sites are fairly common while 3-gem sites are almost non-existent. IOW, a Mids capital can help several other cities while a Gems city has to be justified on its own.

My Internet problems continue so I have not looked at any saves, just the reports. Based on that my choices are:

Dirk
Gliese
Shyuhe

Voting is closed and Abegweit's save tops the round. Round 2 starts today from Abegweit's save to 1000AD and will last until Sunday, January 4th 2009. Happy holidays in the meantime to everyone. :)

1. Abegweit - do I need to explain this? :D considering tech-rate is the limiting factor in the date at which wonders get built, a lot of the succes was owed to the resource pop. It is still the best result by a long stretch, though.
2. Obsolete - for being the guy that WOULD have gotten the GWall and SH if this had been a multiplayer game; also the use of an unusual strategy deserves a bit of compensatory credit
3. Dirk - solid play with no reliance on the GW; would have stood his man regardless of what other players did if this was MP

Thanks all for the votes for my game. Thanks also for the criticisms of it.

My gems city is clearly misplaced and I didn't realise that until I saw games posted with the (much better) alternate location. Not only wheat but iron too!!! Thank you for pointing it out.

It is also true that I went overboard on the wonder-hogging. While I don't regret any of the wonders I landed, I am embarrassed by my two turns into the Chicken.

My next round will concentrate on expansion, whether through REX or war. There is one more wonder that I want in the near future - the MoM. I think that is really powerful. Up with the Mids and the GL.

Agreed,but usually it's very hard to get. Good chance with these ai around though.

Well, considering the number of wonders, we may be able to run a wonder-economy out of the capital an SE everywhere else. If that's the case, having a GP generating wonder like the Chicken isn't so bad.

2. Obsolete - for being the guy that WOULD have gotten the GWall and SH if this had been a multiplayer game; also the use of an unusual strategy deserves a bit of compensatory credit

True, he really did get quite a barbarian horde! I thought I'd had a lot of barbs until I saw how many he'd had :eek:

Voting is closed and Abegweit's save tops the round. Round 2 starts today from Abegweit's save to 1000AD and will last until Sunday, January 4th 2009. Happy holidays in the meantime to everyone. :)

You meant 1AD save

Well, I meant from his 1AD save to 1000AD. :)

Round 2: 1AD - 1000AD - currently playing, ends on Sunday, January 4th, 2009

hehe, I was just logging in here to say sorry that I wasn't able to play the round as I was on holiday...

seems I wasn't the only one!!

Yeah, I was on holiday too until the 3rd, and was about to bump it to say I'll extend the 2nd round until this Sunday. :)

Not really a spoiler, but once you play the game out, get ready for surprises on the other continent.

So, is there still anyone playing this? I'll post my save tonight (just have to finish the report), but if it's gonna be the only save there's not much interest to do it. :)

I finished up my game before the New Year so I'm kind of out... Unless I can find an old save :lol:

You know, I was wondering how people could say that the game is won without seeing the other continent (which I still haven't found in my game). Then I saw how many wonders we had in the capital... o_O I tried playing the first round just to see how the land is and to get an idea of what is and what isn't possible, but I was nowhere near Abegweit's save. Anyway, if people lost interest in this one it's ok. We can start another if enough people still want to play, what with all the "universities", "PYL" and other stuff. :)

The 1AD save is a little overpowering. GW with tons of land to expand into and the only other 2 AI being at war with each other sets up a cake-walk renaissance war. After you get the entire continent, it's your choice of victory pretty much.

Indeed. The fact that in my save SB was the first to Philo (I kind of ignored it) even though he was still fighting with Ragnar means the other continent is pretty backward. I have had Emperor level games in which it was pretty hard to win despite being in a similar situation, without the huge number of wonders. (I had only GW, Pyrs and GL) The other continent featured Gilgamesh, with Hannibal and Mansa Musa as vassals. Don't remember who the fourth was. Needless to say they teched like mad and I had to go to war with nukes or face a very tough Space Race. But having a few more wonders really takes care of the AIs' boosts (no Oracle tech, fewer great people, etc).

You know, I was wondering how people could say that the game is won without seeing the other continent (which I still haven't found in my game). Then I saw how many wonders we had in the capital... o_O I tried playing the first round just to see how the land is and to get an idea of what is and what isn't possible, but I was nowhere near Abegweit's save. Anyway, if people lost interest in this one it's ok. We can start another if enough people still want to play, what with all the "universities", "PYL" and other stuff. :)

Sounds cool, but what do you mean by "universities" and "PYL" :rolleyes:

Sorry if they are dumb ass questions...

@Kaleb: he is talking of the other games (threads) running at the same time in this forum...

@Carl: So true about wonders, AIs suck a lot more without them...

Cheers

btw will you be posting a link to IMC IV in this thread when it gets up and running?

I'm not sure whether there's enough interest in the series to continue it. I guess I could give it another go, but if the next one flops then it's off-line single-player for me again. :) Maybe it's the format, maybe it was just the period, I don't know. Anyway, I'm not interested in running a series with everyone playing from their save, and just posting reports; that's the "universities" series, and there's no reason for two of them to exist.

Personally I am interested. I think keeping more classical cookbook game [next round from voted save] would be best.

I'm not sure whether there's enough interest in the series to continue it. I guess I could give it another go, but if the next one flops then it's off-line single-player for me again. :) Maybe it's the format, maybe it was just the period, I don't know. Anyway, I'm not interested in running a series with everyone playing from their save, and just posting reports; that's the "universities" series, and there's no reason for two of them to exist.

I play immortal as my primary difficulty now, but as always with this format and succession games the pace is too slow for me ;). Of course I watch these games since the players in it are in some cases markedly better than myself, but actually participating is a bit harder. I'll play the first save, and then wind up forgetting or finishing the game :p.

So for me, the revived immortal U makes more sense, but I do at least follow this too.

Edit: If participation gets really bad I'll submit my low-micro speed type saves just to keep people semi-honest!

TMIT, I think you've hit one of the problems: people like to play at their own pace, and on various game speeds. That's why it's hard to stick to playing this to the end. It's even harder if we put it on Epic speed, although it's liked by quite a few people, as there will be even more rounds, etc.

Anyway, I'll start another game this weekend, normal speed. We'll see how it goes from there.

I'll play the next game, just to keep the numbers up you understand :lol: ;)

So no one got to see Tokugawa vassalize the entire other continent??

:(

Nope. Although I can deal with that (and so can others). I'm much more worried when Gilgamesh, Zara or Julius do the same thing.

But thanks for telling us that. It's a good reminder not to call a game won even with such an excellent start.

In case someone is interested ICIV is up. Sorta