Sad to say, but it seems like there has been another cheater in GOTM 9 too :(

seems like JAMES who had fastest diplo victory in 1190 AD, has not been playing by the rules.

You can for example check the powergraph behind f8 key and choose "power" option : he has been OVERWHELMINGLY POWERFUL AT 4000 BC !

This should not be so in any case, especially not when ai has more troops than you at 4000 bc when level is emperor.
I compared it to few other games powergraphs and they were normal, like mine, so how can James be so powerful at 4000 BC ?
Maybe some sort of trainer program ?

Plus if you check out the cultural advisor, it says that he had built a research lab in thebes at 1325 _BC_ , seems bit strange ? Research labs so early, huh ?

I couldnt attach his save because its over 250 kb, but maybe those with fast connections can dl the whole 30 mb save package and check it out too.

Oh no! not again....

I'm downloading the saves now, but have you already informed Matrix about this? As moderator he should know about this ASAP and I haven't seen him on the boards for a while.

Wow found the "easy upload"
his game is now downloadable from here: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/James.zip

Well, I just looked at the file and all I can say is Unbelievable!!!

How does anyone have that many battleships, rifleman and so on all over the place at that stage of the game? Looking at the culture page for Memphis he built a
library in 950BC
University 825 BC
Colloseum 775 BC
Temple 750 BC
Cathedral 730 BC
REsearch lab 670 BC

Now I know there are better players than me out there, and at higher levels the tech rate can improve drastically, but a reserch lab in 670 BC????

Also the power graph is off the charts very early in the game as Green Light pointed out. None of this makes any sense compared to any game I have played.

I can only come to one conclusion looking at the game file and it is not a good one :mad:

Hmmmm, He's researching future tech 62 in 1160 AD, that seems to be a little too fast if you ask me. And indeed the power graph is unbelievably high in the early stages. Either he cheated or I'll humbly ask him to write a strategy guide for me. :)

Originally posted by Creepster
Now I know there are better players than me out there, and at higher levels the tech rate can improve drastically, but a reserch lab in 670 BC????

If you wonder that, check out Thebes also, he had a research lab there already at 1325 BC.

Now watched his replay too, and something strange happens at the end of 4000 bc turn: his power goes literally trough the roof.

Very clear conclusion indeed.

Kemal, I forgot to look at what tech he was researching. If he was on future tech 62 then he must have had 248 turns of research after he discovered all of the other techs. (there is a minimum of 4 turns per tech so 4 x 62 = 248turns).

The 248th turn occurs at 1290 AD which is after he already achieved a victory. It does not look good.

Ohno, not again :(

What can be done about this?

EEK,
We can do what is being done. I believe most of the players are honest and there are only a few who are trying this for what ever reason. Self policing the game is in our best interest in keeping people honest.

His powerbar is just plain idiotic. I hoped the problem with valery Kouznetsov was one ot a kind but that does'nt seem that way.
What should be done then: First reveal their names and make sure they cant join a GOTM game again exept they post a good explanation.
I guess the staff on this site wont IP ban them for this(allthough it is irritating it is not something who would hurt the site anyway)

Some time ago i played diablo2 on bnet.. I know that many dont like the game because of the simplicity and the fact that the only thing you do is to kill monsters and then more monsters.
Anyhow.. i still like the game very much and are a big fan of that game also.
I dont play it anymore beacause of the cheating. Diablo2 has proved that a game can be totaly wrecked and no fun to play for other than the cheaters and scammers. Allmost everyone cheats, try to trick you and stealing your stuff. Many seems to abandon diablo2 because of that.

I know civ3 will not become a victim of massive cheating but if only 10% of the people that submit cheats will damage this tournament alot. Lets say one guy scores a great score. Many will question his score and some would even blame him for cheating eventhough he has'nt done it.
It has happened with all other games(cs, d2 and so on)
people get suspicious because someone allready have cheated and is known in the community.
I have tried to be banned in counterstrike because they thought i cheated. The only problem was that i had a great score but because there where many cheaters in cs they believed me to be a cheater also :(

Last thing i would have thought was cheating in civ3.. how fun can it be :confused:

Alas, James will be deleted. Done for. Terminated. Nullified. Executed and permanently banned.

It's good that you all check all savegames now and then. This way cheaters will never have a chance.

Indeed it's sad. :( Pathetic actually. Ironically a few weeks ago there was a thread active "why cheat?".

Matrix: I'm assuming you gave this poor schlub a chance to explain himself? If not, you at least owe him that courtesy before you cast him to the lions.
Of course, if he refuses to explain or comes up with a lame reason, burn 'im at the stake!

Originally posted by Franklyn
Matrix: I'm assuming you gave this poor schlub a chance to explain himself? If not, you at least owe him that courtesy before you cast him to the lions.
Of course, if he refuses to explain or comes up with a lame reason, burn 'im at the stake!

I can hear you have not looked at his savegame. If you had you would not write this

Maybe when he opened his hut he received every technology.;)

The second hut could have contained 5 settlers and 20000 gold.

That's it! We need to get serious here. We should get a group of players/volunteers to analyze all the top 10? 20? scores/fast finishes every month. They could be the 'Scotland Yard' of the GOTM.

There are probably too many games for Matrix to analyze every month, especially when he has other managerial things to do. But if we could get say, 3-5 people to each analze 5 or 10 games we can catch all the obvious and blatant cheats. If they come across a suspicious game where they think someone cheated they can e-mail the other 'judges' and come to a consenses before posting a thread about it for everyone to know about.

The two cheaters this month were obvious ones, that any reasonable person would know they cheated, but there may be some games in the future that are not so obvious and that is why I recommend a panel of judges take a look at it, before it gets posted in a thread and everyone jumps to conclusions and labels that person a cheater, when it might turn out later that he did not cheat. And also, to give that person a chance to respond/explain in private. If it's an obvious and blatant cheat and the player doesn't offer any reasonable explanation, than go ahead and do what you want.

I suggest we check the saved games of all winners before posting the results. It's worth the extra time.

I'm sorry to see GOTM plagued by cheaters. The silliest part is, these guys who have been caught are so blatant about it, they have to be morons. Did they really believe they'd get away with it??? Now instead of their names being praised as skilled players, they are and will be villified as lamers extraordinaire: weak, foolish, and dishonest.

I hope a couple of these guys getting caught acts as a deterrent to others. Cheaters go against the interests of all honest gamers and every Civ III community. I might say more, but I won't. I wish you the best in rooting out and stamping out the bad behavior.


- Sirian

I normally don't play the GOTM because I pretty much suck compared to the rest of you... :p ...but I think that Sirian, Thunderfall and Bam Speedy are all right in that:

1) Moderators should peruse the saves

2) Develop a law enforcement arm to assist them in these matters as well as an established protocol.

3) IP ban those who are caught cheating (banning the name won't stop a cheater from registering under another handle IMHO)

I don't know who these cheaters think they are fooling. One thing is for certain, I hope that the people at Firaxis make sure that PTW doesn't have any loopholes that could turn it into another Diablo2. If PTW is solid, then the people who cheat will be mutilated when they get into real games with other human players, so their antics are just setting them up for a bigger fall.

Anyway that is my two cents... :) ...

That's the second in just a few days. I'm sorry to hear about it. I like BamSpeedy's idea of a few people checking a decent number of the top placers. Rather than designate a few people as a policing group, I would recomend opening a thread to discuss the results of the last games for the sole purpose of investigation.

While policing the GOTM results is not a fun job, knowing that there will be people looking into maintaining a fair GOTM will far outweigh the cost. Personally, the only reason I am reluctant to check other participants' saves is my internet connection. 56k. 25MB downloads take years for me. If a smaller "top 15/25" plus medal winners was offered, I could manage it. Policing isn't the only reason I'd download the games. I can also learn a great deal from others' successes.

From what I have heard thus far, Matrix (while doing an outstanding job with GOTM) can't check each and every submission each month (without a ~2 month waiting period before the results). That's my primary motivation for throwing out the ideas of devoting a thread for each GOTM where people can share their thoughts AFTER reviewing the saves, as well as a smaller "top" games file.

I tip my hat to those who finish their G'sOTM honestly each and every time. Keep it up.:king:

what a pity

From the looks of it he gave himself a huge amount of money and all of the knowledge to begin with. The he could buy whatever he wanted as the game went along. When you look at his slow city growth it highlights his how wrong all of this is. If you check a couple of other civs you'll see they have over 50K in gold. Also you'll note that all of his cities are either completing a project or will never complete them (except for the couple of Wonders he couldn't buy) There is also the fact that he built 5 wonders in the same city in less than 400 years. That would take incredible luck to get 4 GL's in such a small time span. I think the fact that he has completed SETI, the Cure for Cancer and Longevity before 1500AD and has 62 future techs raises the biggest red flag.

This is so sad.:confused: :cry: :( :mad:

Are you kidding? :eek:

If you take James out than you must hand me his medal. And this at my first GOTM.

Please confirm me what I am seeing. AM I THE HIGHEST SCORE DIPLO VICTORY IN GOTM 9?

I will write Matrix to question this and please checkl my game for cheats if you wish, do anythingyou want but give me a medal on my first game and I'll play all the games from now on and I'll promise I'll post more, I'll even post " The story of the diplo medal in GOTM IX".

But please tell me I've won a medal:king:

You've won a medal :D

Originally posted by Yndy
But please tell me I've won a medal:king: And who said nothing good ever came out of cheating ;)

Congratulations!

Yes Yndy, you got the medal now. ;) I'm glad to hear you're playing all GOTM's from now on. :D

Anyway, I do not have the time to check all these savegames. Some other people may do that. Any volunteers already? :) To reveal the results after the savegames have been checked would be rather tricky, but not undoable.

TF, we then would need to have our own GOTM staff forum. :) There I can post a link where I put all savegames before making the results. And they can say if the savegames are clear.

I would be willing to do some extra work to keep the gotm-community cheatfree so you can count me in to do some savechecking. As you pointed out this will take vast amounts of time and is too much work to be done by a single person, so anyone else wants to help?

I see Ainwood has already started a topic on discussing on how to check on cheaters more efficiently since this method is obviously the most time-consuming.

I would also like to volunteer for this :cool:

I too would be willing to volunteer to check some of the games out. Let me know.

Matrix - As with the previous incident I hope an email has been sent to James pointing him/her to this thread. If there is going to be checking of games would it be possible to have more games submitted as a GOTM posting requirement, to help this process?
1000BC, 500AD and 1000AD for example.

This would be useful for the GOTM as a whole to compare their games against others.

James - Feel free to reply at any time :confused:

Originally posted by Matrix
TF, we then would need to have our own GOTM staff forum. :) There I can post a link where I put all savegames before making the results. And they can say if the savegames are clear.
Shouldn't be a problem.. Check your ICQ... :)

Instead of posting two saved game zips each month (one zip contains all submitted saved games and the second zip contains only the final saved games), maybe we can doing it a little differently and post 3 zips each month, based on the results. So first zips contains top 25 saved games and medal winners, second zip contains 26-50, and the final zip contains all other saved games. It's easier for people to download this way and allows more people to check the saves.

Originally posted by Matrix
Alas, James will be deleted. Done for. Terminated. Nullified. Executed and permanently banned.

I'm just curious how you plan on going about this... he can get a new email address and give a different nick, and voila, how do you know? You'll have to check the saves, and even then you wouldn't know it was him.

Matrix I am willing to be a GOTM staff member. I think I know most of the possible cheats, and max growth rates game to game to look for. However I presume that these games must, or should be checked before the results come out. How would we go about doing this, or just PM me if I am choosen to be one of the few, the proud, GOTM staff members.

I too, would like to volunteer. I have a DSL connection, and would have no problem downloading.

Thanks,
Andy

Good to see there are people willing to help. :)

In time I'll PM those who I could use, but first need to discuss things with Thunderfall...

I would be happy to assist in the checking. Studying one's adversaries before multiplayer is a good thing, and this way it is usefull aswell.

I think JAMES should be removed from Gotm 9 results page: http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3gotm/civ3gotm_results_09.shtml

No glory for the cheaters :D

I think I better look more closely at all the new HOF and SDC games after reading this thread :(

Yes JFL it is a pity that not all are honarable. It is but a pity that some have cheat to succed. I started playing the GOTM's a few months ago and have greatly improved my play. Started placeing pretty low, 25 something place, and have finnally earned my first metal in GOTM9. It just takes mad patience to improve ones play.

In competitive sports don't they do drug tests on winners. Would it be easiest to check only the top scores with winning potential. If you cheat to come in 29th rather than 35th who are you kidding. The more popular this game becomes the bigger your workload. Hats off to all the volunteers who actually know what to look for.

Matrix: Dank je wel

If you need any more volunteers to check for cheaters I'd be glad to help. I've been busting cheaters since I played my first civ2 MP game on the Zone.

Curious why this game is still posted in the GOTMIX results? I think Yndy would like to see his game highlighted.

Thnx,

Greg

I was patient even if I checked the table every other day. But I guess Matrix has other things to do also.

I'll send him a reminder ;)

Or, i'll do like the guy who added the reminder within his signature, Bamspeedy I think ...:) .

Thank you for your support.:goodjob:

What a pity, I cannot believe that some people will do this.
Where can you find the results/games where all this is investigated?

Got my diplo :D,
Thx Matrix.

Aeneas, you mean his saved game ? It's on the first page of this thread. It was investigated right on this thread.

If you mean where are all of the saves, I don't know but if you search the GOTM board and the file server (civfanatics.net) you should find them somewhere.