If you're Memphus, Viva_Chingon, Automated Teller, or Ronnie1...

:nuke: PLEASE LEAVE NOW! :nuke:

This area is TOP SECRET!

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For the rest of you that would like to lurk this game and help me not lose horribly... WELCOME!

All help is appreciated - I think I might be a bit out of my league in this game. My talents run more towards the diplomatic than actual "skill" - so any helpful (non spoiler) tips will be appreciated!
:salute:

Hey all :wavey:

So here's what my capital area looks like:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/001-SANCTAprivate-Empire.jpg

As you can see - lots of food!
No early happy resources, and not a lot of hammer opportunity. Great forests though.

I've explored a bit - here's from the most recent turn:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/003-SANCTAprivate-Empire.jpg

It's slow going - lots of forest and jungle.

As Rome, I plan to target Iron Working very quickly anyway... but with my start location, I just couldn't resist picking up Agriculture.
All that food should give me some good whipping opportunities if I get in trouble with an early war or something.

Bronze working is next.

From the demographics screen, I'm in the lead for food - but in last place for GNP and production. No surprise there since I'm working an all food tile. Hopefully I can grow quickly and make up some of that deficit.

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?

You'll probably have metal in your fat cross, on one of the non-forested tiles.

I hope so!
I just hope it's not aluminum! :lol:

I think Agriculture - Bronze Working - Iron Working is the best research path, assuming you meet someone soon.

But be careful, everybody will be watching out for Rome's praetorians.

Thanks Dutchfire! Glad to have you lurking :)

I just saw your comment in the Off topic thread - I don't want to interrupt the other discussion going on there - but I don't want you to think I was ignoring you either!

Thanks for asking about Evangeline - I appreciate the concern! :)
She's doing pretty well, all things considered. Her heart function is still the same (1/3 of normal) - but she hasn't gotten any worse and we haven't had any more extended stays at the hospital - hooray! She's making progress in her therapy... it's slow, but we're just thrilled to see improvement.
She's getting cuter by the day also!
Proud pappa has to show a picture...

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/Laughingface.jpg



-------------------

Back to game mode - I agree 100% - BW then IW... I may need some fancy diplomacy to stay alive till I can get my Praetorians up and running.

Although... since I'll have Agriculture anyway, I kinda wonder about the possibility of getting Wheel (60) and Pottery (80) before I get Iron Working (200).

It would let me hook up resources and the granary would be awesome for whipping. Cottages would also speed the time to Iron Working a bit.
:dunno: Too risky to delay Iron Working that long?

Good to hear everything is going well.
She's now almost 2, if my memory is serving me correctly, isn't she?

---

I'd say that depends on if you have copper near you. If you have, you can safely skip iron working for a short while.

so - I got a bit of a surprise this turn!

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/004-Explore.jpg

Apparently Memphus left huts turned on! :wow:
That puts a bit more of a hustle need onto exploration.
I'm wondering if I should risk sending out my second Warrior (under construction) to explore my south.

And speaking of that... my culture expanded and:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/004-Empire-BorderExpand.jpg


It looks like there's land below me!
Yipes. I'm not sure if I like that or not.
Will be interesting to see what's down there. :shifty:


Thoughts on what to do with Warrior #2?

you can send warrior two slightly south, but be sure not to move it too far away.
The south can easily be defended, with the forest hill choke point you have there.

Some good news!

I popped that hut, and guess what I found?

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/005-Explore.jpg

A scout! Woot :dance:

This will help me in the scramble for more huts.

I decide to send my warrior back towards home, I think I'll try to shave a little more black off the northern area of my capital, then return for Police duty.
That should free me up to send Warrior #2 south more aggressively.

@Dutchfire - you're right - that forest hill choke point will be awesome.
If I build a fort there, I'll even be able to shuttle ships through that area :thumbsup:

I'm going to name Warrior #1 "Primus Fecunda" - I think that's roughly Latin for "First & Fertile" :D

I'm also thinking of the basic "Explorator" for my new scout... I'll give him an adjective when/if he does something worthwhile :)


Here's my Demo screen:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/005-Demo.jpg

As you can see - it's not very good news.
Tied for first in Food, but dead last in GNP & MFG. Whoever is tying me in food must also be working a river food tile. I'm guessing that's that 17GNP person.
My soldiers score ought to jump next turn thanks to my new scout.

I'm hoping I can translate my food edge into other areas here soon. But I think it's just generally going to be tough going for Rome till I can get Bronze Working.

Thoughts?

I think Primus Fecundus makes more sense in Latin, but I'm no expert.

More than me I'm willing to wager!
I'll go with "Fecundus" :thanx:

I'm going to need to name something after you - as my main contributor here Dutchfire :D You want a unit or city or something? :lol:

Primus Fecundusque would be better now that I think about it, as -que represents the &

I'm going to need to name something after you - as my main contributor here Dutchfire You want a unit or city or something?
A praetorian would be nice :p (Ignis Batavus)

@Dutchfire, I LOVE “Ignis Batavus” – my first Patorian will be named that! :thumbsup:

My scout made my first contact with another civ! :wow:

It’s AutomatedTeller of China!

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/006-Explore.jpg



I sent off this note:



Hail AutomatedTeller of China!

Well met – all of Rome salutes you.
We have sighted your scout "Lewis & Clark" in the jungles and are thrilled to meet your people.

-------

Let me be transparent with you – I’ve got more skills at diplomacy than I do at Civ (I'm currently getting pounded in another BtS pbem game)… and some might even question the extent of my diplomacy skills :lol:

With Memphus lurking out there with his skirmishers, I’m very nervous that I won’t live long enough to see my first Praetorian be produced. I really need an ally badly.
I also confess I’m relieved to have met you before Memphus. Hopefully that means he’s not my closest neighbor.

Since we both have later coming UUs – I think we have a good opportunity to help each other ensure we both live long enough to get to play with them.

Any chance you’re interested in cooperating and maybe even developing a more alliance-type relationship as we see the game progress?

Looking forward to hearing back from you!

General_W, Rome.


Any thoughts on my movement plan or approach to Auto Teller?

I thought Memphus was Incan? :confused:

oops! you're right.
Here's the reply I got from Auto Teller

Hail and well met, General_W of Rome!! Veni, vici, diplomati, eh?

I am happy to talk alliance - I have no experience at pbem, myself ;)

At worst, an agreement to not attack each other, and I'd be interested in a
territory agreement, tech sharing, even mutual support (my archers are
really good defenders, especially in cities on hills).

May I ask which direction you are in? I am south and trying to figure out
which direction is best to next scout in. I figure I won't go where you
are, and you and I can go different directions.

Oh - one thing: I dunno if your skirmisher remark refered to Mansa's
skirmisher's, but Memphus is Inca, thus has quecha. Which is frightening in
itself...

Still thinking about my response...

I'd be wary of making too much of an alliance before you've met any more civs - for all you know there's is only 1/4 chance that China is the best civ to ally with (I know it isn't that simple, but you get the point). :)

yeah - I agree. Better start slow.
But I'm not eager for a war with China (protective) anyway.

I just looked it up, and Qin starts with Agriculture and Mining... so how'd AutoTeller get a scout? must be the same way I did - and he's finding huts also! At least he didn't get a tech or something. lol.

If someone finds a tech in a hut, you should typically see their score rise at a point where it would not normally be expected to.

And you can check the demographics for solidercount to get an idea of whether someone else suddenly got another unit.

Although I don't know how much "schlapphüte"-analysis you're going to do, since it's just a relaxing game. :)

:lol: obviously not TOO much analysis on my part. Not my styel :D
But if you notice anything, please help me out! :hatsoff:

Here's the letter I sent back to AutoTeller:
Hail Auto Teller,

Sorry for my delay in responding.

Your plan sounds good. Le'ts start with peace and some kind of territory agreement.
My empire (heh - my single city) lies to the East of Lewis and Clark.

Shall we make some kind of deal like - once we sight the others borders, we'll turn around? Or should we try to be even more specific than that?
Or just merely pledge to respect the others borders / stay at peace?

I'm open to hear any proposal you have!

Good call on the "quecha" - obviously I need a new minister of intelligence ;)

Awaiting your reply,
General_W, Rome.

Got this reply from AutoTeller:
We can do that.

My scout went north, btw. You will run into my borders in not a long time.


My thoughts were that the jungle would make a natural border, though that
obviously depends on how much room you have to expand. Right now, I'm
planning on a city that will extend a bit into the jungle to my north
(several tiles east of Explorodus), and I'm thinking about a city on the
hill that Explorodus is standing on, or maybe 1 north, but that's as far as
north as I'm planning.

Would that conflict with where you are looking to expand?

Would you be interested in a way to share techs and, perhaps, pull off an
oracle slingshot? I don't know what that will look like - it would
probably mean you would have to forgo IW for awhile, which you wouldn't want
to do - but after BW/AH type techs, I could beeline priesthood while you
beeline alphabet and I could build Oracle, you trade me writing and we get
CoL out of it.

We'd have to work out a way to make the investment equitable, cause
writing/alphabet is a bigger burden than mysticism/meditation/priesthood.
But I make wonders fast and if you have marble you can trade me, I make it
even faster ;)

Here's my scout:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/008-Explore.jpg


My Capital grew:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/008-Empire.jpg

which gives me the #1 city in the world :smug: ... for now!
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/008-Top5.jpg

Lot going on this turn!

My scout, Explorodus, caught sight of Ronnie1! (Khmer)
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/009-Explore.jpg

I sent him this [strangely familiar looking] letter:
Hail Ronnie1 of Khmer!

Well met – all of Rome salutes you.
Our scout "Explorodus" has climbed a hill in the jungles caught sight
of your fair Blue lands. We are thrilled to meet your people.

-------

Let me be transparent with you – I've got more skills at diplomacy
than I do at Civ (I'm currently getting pounded in another BtS pbem
game)… and some might even question the extent of my diplomacy skills

With Memphus lurking out there with his Quechua, I'm very nervous that
I won't live long enough to see my first Praetorian be produced. I
really need an ally badly.
I also confess I'm relieved to have met you before Memphus. Hopefully
that means he's not my closest neighbor.

Since we both have later coming UUs – I think we have a good
opportunity to help each other ensure we both live long enough to get
to play with them.

Any chance you're interested in cooperating and maybe even developing
a more alliance-type relationship as we see the game progress?

Looking forward to hearing back from you!

General_W, Rome.

The more friends the better, I figgure!
At least until I can figure out who's best to kill! :ar15:


My Warrior, "Primus Fecundus" has found another hut!
Too bad it's not my scout! Oh well... I'll pop it next turn.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/009-Explore2.jpg


My capital, Imperium_W, is still the largest city in the world at 2 pop. The other person pulling in 5 food must be building a Worker or Workboat?
I continue working that 2 hammer forest grassland hill tile to speed production of my second warrior. Due next turn and plan to send him south. When Primus Fecundus hits the West coast, I'll turn him south for MP duty in my capital.

I plan to build a worker next.

on the other diplomacy front:
Got this from AutoTeller (China)
Hey - just so you know, I seem to be on a peninsula - I'd go north or east.

replied with this:
Thanks for the heads up!
Explorodus has already headed away North - in respect for your land's privacy.

I've marked the hill you described on my imperial maps, and intend to respect that location as belonging to the glorious Chinese Empire. :salute:

I'm not quite ready to commit to an Oracle Slingshot plan. I'm not opposed, mind you - but if I turn out to be near Memphus, I'm going to need to put more effort into military techs and may not have the luxury of going after religious techs. :scared:

Let's stay in contact though so we can continue to cooperate and build trust.
Would you like to try a formal non-aggression pact sort of thing? Maybe with some kind of timeline or else notification-of-intent to cancel clause?

Rome Salutes You,
General_W


Comments from the gallery?

Comments from the gallery?

I think you're well capable of handling your own diplo :p

I have to agree with dutchfire on that one. Judging from your diplo work thus far, you're following the same diplo strategy that you/Epsilon used in the previous MTDG, which is no doubt a very solid strategy for games with 4+ players. :)

Overdue for an update here.

I got lucky on that hut pop, and turned out Animal Husbandry!
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/010-Tech.jpg

Not the most useful tech for me right now - but I'm not complaining!
It shows me that there are no horse resources handy. Being a glass-half-full kind of guy, I take that as good news, because I believe it makes it more likely I'll have the strategic resources I really need closer by. :thumbsup:


I forgot to take shots last turn (14) - and it'll be a bit before I get to play the current turn (15).
But here's what I could see of the world North of Imperium_W:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/013-ExploringNorth.jpg



And my 2nd Warrior is uncovering some good land to my south...
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/013-ExploreSouth.jpg

Makes me wonder if it might be worthwhile to actually settle on that Hill south of Imperium_W?
Normally I wouldn't do that - but on a small map that's already gotten bloody - having my cities close together might be a good advantage.

And a city on a hill there would not only act as a water canal - it would have that nice hill defense to protect my capital from attacks from the south.

Guess I need to see a little more of what's down there before I make the decision.
Any early thoughts?

Food is not a problem, with Corn and Clams, so I'd be trying to maximise hammer tiles for the city, to give it a little flexibility. So, if it were me, I'd settle on the grassland 1S of the hill. Plus, that way it'll have instant access to the corn and clams, rather than needing to whip a monument.

Yeah, I'd agree with settling 1S

Here's an updated shot of the South:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/15-ExploreSouth.jpg

I could even settle on that plains tile, and still have a canal city. It would no longer serve as a blocker to my capital, but could be a good location for a Maoi Statues city?

Generally I prefer to settle on Plains over Grassland... is that a mistake?

Also - I'm still the only civ with a size 2 capital. This kind of surprises me on turn 15! What are the others doing? :confused: - still, I think it's good news for me.

Grassland = 2 tiles overlap with capitol, 12 water tiles for moai.
Plains = 1 peak w/0 overlap, 12 tiles for moai.

Both would have instant access to resources...that's corn under your warrior, right?

I would go for the block / 2 tile overlap (grassland settle) and build a lighthouse after moai.

Question is do you move the warrior south to complete the picture about the plains city site, or do you just wander off to the west?

Thanks Viva! Glad to have you reading along here. :)

Here's an update on the South:
Turn 16:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/016-ExploreSouth.jpg

Turn 17:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/017-SouthExplore.jpg

Killed the lion flawlessly, and got +5xp from the hut.
So my warrior will be getting 2 upgrades next turn! :)
Opinions on what to get?

Does the presence of Fish & Pigs alter anyone's thoughts on where I should settle?
Looks like I'll have 2 good city cites down here! Maybe I can have a little secret area to myself if it doesn't connect anywhere?


Up north, I popped a hunt and got another Scout.
Now I'm playing hide from the Lion on the forested hill.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/017-NorthExplore.jpg

You should definately go for woodsman 1+2 for the warrior - makes exploration safer and much faster.

Regarding city sites, I'd probably settle on the grassland, because while the two options might be roughly equal on the economic potential, I think the strategic advantage of completely blocking off with your city is very useful in multiplayer. However, if the exploration of the warrior reveals that it's a dead end and that no threats would come from that direction I'd settle on the plains tile.

And the fish+pigs is definately nice - depending on what's in the fog, it should give you one or two good citi sites. :)

:run: Code Red! Code Red! Time to panic! :run:

I took the Woodsman II promotion - and moved two tiles to uncover the border of Memphus. Worst case scenario realized... he's my closest neighbor by far :ack:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/018-ACKMemphus.jpg

If he had sent his explorers the other direction, I'd have been out first instead of Viva! :faint: Yikes... I was awfully close to death.

Now what do I do? Judging from his score, I think he's probably just recently gotten Bronze working... which means trying to make a mad run for his capital and hope it's undefended isn't probably going to work, his capital is now size two, which means he can whip out a Quecha.
But I could sweep in and try to find a worker or something?

Or I could try to talk nice to him in diplomacy and fall back to that forest hill and sit there with my Woodsman II unit fortified there as a serious impediment to coming after me.

My 1st Warrior (Primus Fecundus) will be back in my capital on Guard duty in 2 turns, so I'm not in any immediate danger.

Thoughts?

Copper will be your best defense, so unless there's nearby unclaimed Copper to the north, I'd settle the grassland tile NW of the clams as your 2nd city.

Well, good thing you can block that isthmus easily.

ok - some good news.
I discovered Bronze working on the inter-turn, and I have some VERY handy:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/019-ImperiumW.jpg

Whew! I feel much safer now. :thumbsup:


I also got 3 letters from Memphus.
Here's the second two that have all the juicy stuff:


Hey Josh ~

This is game is shaping up perfectly! I was hoping to meet you after
Viva. You would be the 2nd best player from the lot from what I have
been able to figure out from forum posts.

As Such I am very interested in peace. I would be willing to accept any
time of agreement you came up with. For example Peace until 500AD then
up for renegotiation, or peace until education is discovered, etc. It
would be entirely up to you.

The way I see it is worst case scenario the two of us would be able to
AT & Ronnie if they were to form a mass alliance.

Judging by the time it took your warrior to get to my capital, I have to
assume that you were smart on a multiplier game and were the only one
who built a warrior first. (so this is your second warrior, your first
probably ran a circle route and is getting back to your capital so no
fear of quechas, I wouldn't risk it for a 22% battle). also He has 2
promos so you must have popped a hut as well with him congrats!
That does however make me a little vulnerable as you can see the area is
quite forested. I do have a worker in there on some flood plains.

As I trust you, to come up with some form of peace treaty, I will not
move him to evade a potential attack, instead I will let that be a sign
of my good faith. (if the forces of evil were to tempt you, the
Quecha's in my capital though might not be so be happy and would be
forced to retaliate.)

So I look forward to hearing from you to how we can work together.

Ah yes early plans for me. I know of this shiny bronze type metal which
my people have figured out how to form. Also there is rumor of a
religion out and about, but we are unsure if we should convert.

Sincerely,

Matthew Wheatley


Hey Josh ~

To my West is the coast line, and to the north is jungle.

So no doubt I am in the SW part of the map. I am sure there isn’t too much land below me.

While it might not seem like your best move for your promoted warrior, if he goes north for 4 turns he will come into this vast jungle expanse, followed by a desert, and then finally the ruins of an ancient civilization.

If he goes South around my capital he will find some pigs, fish, but ultimately a dead end as the culture of my wonderful civilization will cut him off.

That said if he misses his chance north now, by the time he goes south and returns our cultural influence will have expanded again thus cutting of his northern route.

The choice is yours :)

Here's my warrior's current position:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/019-MemphusExplore-1.jpg

So - there's a TON to digest there.
It seems to me like he's hinting around that he's already founded a religion. I'll check the religion screen next turn. I didn't see any notices, but I didn't look that carefully last turn.
It also sounds like he has bronze working, but maybe not in his current cultural range.

In any case - it may be a ticket straight to second place, but I'm kind of inclined to do a peace deal with Memphus. Due to his position relative to me and the others, there's no way they can help me with a war. Perhaps once we get alphabet, I could arrange a tech alliance against Memphus to try to slow him down... but in the short term, I'm just not nearly as good of a player as Memphus, and am likely to get squashed if I go to early war against him.

I think my best plan might be to settle that grassland tile NW of the clams as the consensus here advocates, defend it with a few axeman - and go with the "trust but verify" approach for Memphus.

That'll free me to focus on expanding North. It sounds like I probably have better land available for expansion than he does.

Final note - it seems like some subterfuge that he was complaining about his start. I can see his farmed corn, and he says he has a floodplain (if he's working it, does that mean he's already got pottery? As a financial civ, he's going to be very dangerous with floodplains! :ack: ) + Bronzeworking, and now maybe a religion (makes sense, since he also started with Mysticism).

Or does the crowd here think it's a mistake to be peaceful? Should I have my worker hook up that copper next turn and try to beat the best player right out of the gate? :scared:

I think I'll respond with a peaceful letter here soon... unless someone really make a compelling argument.

I, of course, would love to see Memphus crushed. :) But that might be selfish!

If I am correctly interpreting your diplomatic communication it appears as though Memphus is on the far side of the map with you and AT close to each other some distance away from Memphus. Have you found Ronnie yet?

If this is the case he might have a lot of land to expand into...as he mentioned, there is a destroyed civ to the north of his position. This, to me, seems to be the biggest problem for you...as well as AT and Ronnie. If he is allowed to expand there will be no stopping him later.

Lead him on -- create an alliance at home and, collectively, send your forces to destroy the Inca!

Memphus did point you in the direction of the destroyed site -- which, when found, would allow you to read my spoiler. I would scout that way anyway -- before his culture cuts you off, as he suggested. Also, it would give you an idea of the land into which he could expand!

I'll try to get screenshots with the next save - but here's the scoop:

I found Viva's former capital.
You had stone!! :wow:
So I took a look at your thread - that really stinks about the warrior auto-moving :sad: If you had fortified in the capital, you'd probably still be with us!

In any case, the murderous Quecha that killed Viva just showed up to the North of my borders. My warrior Primus Fecundus is safely fortified in my capital - but no matter, Memphus appears content to pass me by anyway.

We're on the verge of working out a deal. Here's the last e-mail I sent him:
Sorry for my delay in responding!

No worries about your workers safety. I appreciate your honesty and
openness- I'll be swinging my warrior around north, as you've
suggested.

lol - it's kinda eerie how you predicted my exact moves with my 2
warriors. But I guess if you play enough multiplayer games on a small
map you learn not to leave your capital undefended pretty quickly.

I'd certainly like a peace treaty with the great Incan peoples! I
think we can both prosper better togeather rather than fighting
eachother.
I'm going to give some more thought to the specifics of a peace treaty
and then write to you then!

All of Rome salutes you,
General_W

My Woodsman II warrior - "Mighty Arborus" climbed a hill and caught sight of Memphus' capital. He does, indeed, have the Buddhist holy city. :ack:

I'm 18 turns from Iron Working... but I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't put that on pause in favor of trying for Hinduism? There are NO early happy resources in sight, and an early religion might really help me.

With Memphus playing peaceful and copper right next to my capital, maybe I can afford the diversion?

Thoughts on finishing IW vs. going Myst->Poly ?

If you don't mind the EP bonus to Memphus, you could hope for Buddhism spreading to your cities. (I forget if the bonus applies to state religion or owning the holy city.)

Holy Cities are nice, but Praets are nicer. Especially if you don't see any copper for Memphus.

hmm - maybe I'll approach Memphus about spreading Buddhism to my lands. It'll give him an extra gpt, but only after he gets a Great Prophet. Which I'm sure will be high on his to-do list.

One of us will need writing for that though, right?

And I gotta tell you, I'm kinda freaked out about going to War with Memphus early. Praetorians are awesome... but axemen will still chew them up hammer for hammer. :shifty:

I guess that's a worry for later though, I'll keep scouting Memphus' borders, and see where the Iron shows up in 18 turns...

Well...it happens. I wasn't the only one who didn't fortify their capitol...and I'm not giving anything away; I'm talking about Y O U. :)

Good luck!

I'm overdue for an update here.

I've explored some more, and come to an unfortunate conclusion... I have to do a deal with the devil.
by which, I mean Memphus :lol:

He's too close to me, too strong, and too much of a better player for me to take on at this stage.
He's got Bronze, so his Axemen would be sufficient to fight off my Praetorians. Axe's are cheaper, and with their +50% against mele, hammer-for-hammer he can take me down.

I've signed a peace deal with him to last till turn 60 (31 turns from now) and extend beyond that with with a 5 turns notice of intent to cancel clause.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/027-MilitaryMap.jpg

As you can see in the above map, we also agreed that I'd get a city below me, as planned.
I'm also working out a deal with him to spread Buddhism to my lands, then pay me 0.5gpt (rounded up) for every city I have with Buddhism in it.

Since there are NO pre-calendar happy resources that I can see, I'll need the religion to grow my cities. I think this is a pretty good deal for me since I spare myself the need to study polytheism in a race. :thumbsup:

I got a widescreen monitor for Christmas :dance:
So here's a nice new widescreen shot of my southern area border with Memphus:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/GeneralW/029-EmpireSouth.jpg

Oh yeah - and a random event gave me Truffles for Christmas.
That tile now gets +1 Food and +1gold. Awesome. It just moved to the top of my "chop and cottage" list.

I'm thinking I'll need to try to do a deal with Ron, and kill AutoTeller with Praetorians. As much as I'd rather work with AT against Memphus, I just don't think it's realistic. I need a medium-term alliance with Memphus and a long-term secret one with Ron.

Thoughts?

One major downside to attacking AT is Protective. With a barracks, he can pump out archers for half the cost of your praets. Combat I or CR I praets, coming up against fully fortified CGII DrillI Archers, behind walls, leaves you with just over 50% chances of victory. And I would be surprised if there weren't some Shock Axemen thrown in for good measure. If you did want to attack AT, I'd go through Ronnie first and get some highly promoted praets first.

Nice to see what the map looks like...you're in a tricky spot, geographically.

Your Praetorians will do heavy damage to whomever you choose to attack but Azzaman has a good point re: protective. You're obviously considering who you should employ your UU against...that's valid IMO.

In a perfect world expanding west would be the best bet because that would give you some highly defensible land with which to use in assaulting Ronnie and AT. This, however, is met with the reality of having to take Memphus head on. Taking that approach would be a gamble but would have huge payoffs...

1) You wouldn't be the meat in the sandwich any longer -- primary defense to the east
2) Defensible land -- if you secure the upper land-bridge
3) Happy, Health and Horses over there
4) Limited success in such a campaign would weaken Memphus quite a bit.

Seeing that it is an inland sea, the placement of city 2 could be adjusted or even changed to city 3 in favor of an inland land grab...especially if you've secured that area through treaty already. There really isn't much need for naval forces in the inland sea -- unless you were to assault Memphus amphibiously.

Expand to 3-4 cities, build Praetorians like crazy, come up with a good attack plan and initiate. The only Delta is which civ to attack. If you attack either Ronnie or AT they might ally against you -- but if you went straight for Memphus then they might leave you alone in favor of building themselves up to fight you later.

Those 'ifs' might be addressed through some additional diplomacy with Ronnie and AT. Though you probably won't get straightforward answers, their responses might at least serve as a litmus test for their existing communication/coordination.

gaa - I just don't know what to do.
If only Viva were still alive! He and I would have a totally natural alliance against Memphus.

As it is - I'm pretty sure that going to war with Memphus (as strategically desirable as that is) would end up with me weakening Memphus enough for AT or Ron to win.

On the flip side, if I can get some early conquest victories over AT or Ron, I'll be in a much stronger position to do some damage to Memphus.

So if I want to win (and I do) I think I have to choose between attacking Ron or AutoTeller.
If Ron were closer to me, it'd be a no-brainier.

I'm really not excited about facing a Protective civ, but in my limited experience, being protective tends to make humans over-confident on defense. With a tech alliance with Memphus, and my rear secure, I might be able to time an attack on AutoTeller for Praetorians + Catapults - heavily neutralizing his defensive advantage for being able to hole up in cities.

If I can get some kind of peace deal with Ron to keep him out of the way - it could be my path to victory.

Thoughts?
Anyone know how good of a Civ4 player AutoTeller is?

When at some point Memphus declares that in 5 turns he will be coming for you, will you be able to defend your back with your main force at the other end of the world? You're his closest neighbour and I think it would be quite an invitation to conquest if you signal that you're not home...

Not that I think declaring on Memphus will win you the game either, mind you. Actually, I don't think there are any obvious moves towards victory given your current position.

build 2 axes asap then send them both at Memphus and try to choke him?