Post your feedback for this scenario here.

The intent of this scenario is that it is a tutorial for hunting. Something to ease new players into FfH.

this scenario is missing its description in the scenario screen - only the xml tag shows up:

txt_key_wb_grand_menagerie_desc

this scenario is missing its description in the scenario screen - only the xml tag shows up:

txt_key_wb_grand_menagerie_desc

I had this issue - selecting another scenario then clicking back to this one makes the text appear however.

Good introduction to animal capturing. A bit easy but I guess its supposed to be. Finding a griffin was kind of annoying though.

I admit I skipped the intro text, so I thought I was piling up hunters in my city because Keelyn was going to attack me, or something like that :p

supposing the scenarios will get harder, I think it's OK. I was expecting to get my ass kicked haha

Chicken cat :P

I too missed the text and spent the entire game building up my forces to survive the inevitable assault by the balseraphs, which crippled my economy (as I was running pacifism for some reason).

But I (finally) found that griffon and made it to the end.

I found using a week unit (captured wolf) as bait with a hunter to pounce when the chicken cats pounce works well. The wolf lures the cats from over the ocean.

The ending made me cry - I'm rather fond of silver candlesticks.

Easy scenario :D

that was fun :D

This definitely lacks some in-game help like the quests. I am sitting there, with Keelyn telling me she wants some grey beast. So what? I'm probably supposed to understand she wants a specific animal. Not having a translation into proper English of the current objectives (hint: Quest log) makes this very boring.

The current objective is displayed in red above the score. Could probably be a bit more visible, but it's there. When Keelyn asked for a grey animal, for instance, it changed to "capture an elephant".

Looks like a part of tutorial. Interesting if it is possible to take Keelyn's capital by culture? There are carnival, grand menagerie and great bards...

My game cuts to desktop when I try to open this (or any other) scenario. Any ideas? I'm running Vista, but UAC is off.

My game cuts to desktop when I try to open this (or any other) scenario. Any ideas? I'm running Vista, but UAC is off.

Same thing happens to me, but I'm using XP.

Follow kaels instructions (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7554967&postcount=1) and it should work.

Not working. It keeps saying there was an error and exits the program.

If u had another modmod running before the download, the transferred option bug might be your problem! (I just posted something in the bugthread!)
Try start a normal civ game & hereby reset the option parameters!

I suggest an indication in the scen describs about being an hunting tutorial, a starter!

If u had another modmod running before the download, the transferred option bug might be your problem! (I just posted something in the bugthread!)
Try start a normal civ game & hereby reset the option parameters!


Or you just use the PLAY NOW! option, it resets al game options.

So, am I missing something? I get the 5 animals for the Menagerie and cage them. After caging the last one, the red 'objective' simply does not appear again. I tried building the Grand Menagerie, but with it did nothing to advance the scenario.

My bears killed two griffins. Will the griffins respawn?

Yes, I am pretty sure that there are checks to respawn animals that you need somewhere.

So, am I missing something? I get the 5 animals for the Menagerie and cage them. After caging the last one, the red 'objective' simply does not appear again. I tried building the Grand Menagerie, but with it did nothing to advance the scenario.

Same problem here... Any ideas as to what causes this? Perhaps certain events are not triggered. :confused:

So, am I missing something? I get the 5 animals for the Menagerie and cage them. After caging the last one, the red 'objective' simply does not appear again. I tried building the Grand Menagerie, but with it did nothing to advance the scenario.

You should see an objective to 'capture an elephant' - if you didn't, might be a bug of some kind.

Needs more griffins. They're very shy, and I only had one spawn on the map - I tried luring it with wolves, and that eventually worked, but it took ages before it decided to fly over from the ocean and take the bait.

I completed the scenario successfully - very entertaining and a good setup for the next one (which is a bit tougher by the looks :D )

You should see an objective to 'capture an elephant' - if you didn't, might be a bug of some kind.

Shouldnt I be getting a 'build the grand menagerie' objective?

Shouldnt I be getting a 'build the grand menagerie' objective?

Yep, but once you've got the first five animals you'll also see Kaelyn pop up and ask you to capture an elephant.

Kaelyn? :eek::eek:

Everything worked okay for me. Kind of over-simple, but only for brief periods as opposed to Momus which keeps going forever. Keelyn is just about how I always imagined her, and the story text is great :)

Possible bug: The explanations telling me about a certain type of animal activated every time I captured the animal, not just the first time.

It is a nice simple scenario but the griffon spawn rate needs to be increased significantly or the AI tweaked to keep them from wandering around the ocean. I spent literally 50 turns trying to lure one into range of a hunter. The griffons kill the quick and easy feel of the otherwise fun scenario. But if you fix that it should be perfect.

Kaelyn? Are we talking about the female version of Kael or the Balseraph leader? ;)

So I checked the Trophy room after completing this scenario and noticed that I had been awarded the trophy for building the Grand Menagerie as well as the one for completing the Scenario.

I would suggest that this scenario should not offer the Trophy for building the Grand Menagerie, as it's basically a Tutorial which is entirely focused on that goal, and thus devalues the award.

So I checked the Trophy room after completing this scenario and noticed that I had been awarded the trophy for building the Grand Menagerie as well as the one for completing the Scenario.

I would suggest that this scenario should not offer the Trophy for building the Grand Menagerie, as it's basically a Tutorial which is entirely focused on that goal, and thus devalues the award.

That's a great idea. I've just started playing with hunters/animal tracking/etc., just to play around with capturing animals and seeing what I can use them for. It kind of sucks that the trophy for that will be used on a tutorial. Not a big deal or anything, it's fun to play, but I'd say I agree with you on that.

i'd recommend placing some additional peaks in the jungle bit, and have a griffin spawn both in them, and in 1 of the peaks to the west. This would drastically improve your chances of finishing that part of the scenario in decent time.

A couple of comments:

1. The trophy room does give you the GM award, but it doesn't count as a Lanun victory. Is that intentional?

2. Besides setting up the story, is "GM" really that useful as a tutorial? I mean, hunting is pretty easy to figure out and isn't a big part of the game usually. A small text box explaining how hunting and "Subdue Animal" work will get the point over. A new player will think that hunting is one of basics of the game and expect the next scenario to be a kind of tutorial as well, only to get a tutorial on madness in Momus. An experienced player will just spend 40 minutes looking for a griffon and get annoyed.

i think its intentional because think how easy you will win an amurite victory... However you get high highscore for winning early :D

I enjoyed it much but that griffon was a bit hard to get.

I found this scenario to be a bit boring. =/ I ran around with my hunters and captured the animals, but it was all one sided. Not a whole lot happened. As for specific problems:

- Every time I caught a lion, the pop-up that they live in deserts appeared.
- The intro was third person and the ending was first person, which seemed a bit off.
- Please increase the griffon spawn rate. It took me waaaaay to long to capture that griffon. This is probably why I was bored.
- From a lore perspective, do those cities belong on Aegen Isle? Maybe Innsmouth could be, as they love their islands, but the Balseraph capital? (I will probably have this problem with a few of the scenarios. :lol: )

I don't think that it was on the Aifon Isle. I thought it was in the Aegan Isles.

Still unable to finish this scenario; after getting all animals no further instructions are given. :sad: Does anyone know why this happens to a few people? Maybe a script doesn't run, maybe something to do with Vista...

I'm having that issue on XP and not vista so its not that....

The scenarios not triggering events seems to happen on multiple scenarios.

Attaching a save with 4 caged animals and bear sitting in capital. Curious as to other people's luck when caging the bear and hitting end of turn. Does the scenario move on to the next step, or just sit there?

I actually managed to catch my griffon before I actually built the managerie. Sorta amusing to win without building the name-sake wonder.

I found this scenario to be a bit boring. =/ I ran around with my hunters and captured the animals, but it was all one sided. Not a whole lot happened.

I think this is a very good point.

If you want tutelage, make just one tutorial scenario like the one that comes with Civ, with all the little bits of tutorial information you want to convey, and no unnecessary repetition.

I tried to play it and got a CTD.

So I checked the Trophy room after completing this scenario and noticed that I had been awarded the trophy for building the Grand Menagerie as well as the one for completing the Scenario.

I would suggest that this scenario should not offer the Trophy for building the Grand Menagerie, as it's basically a Tutorial which is entirely focused on that goal, and thus devalues the award.

I disagree. Building the GM in a real game is difficult as you rarely get all the animals you need to spawn, have the correct tech and the correctly promoted units, especially with all the other complications on the top (land grab, hostile neighbours, Orthus, some fool trying to start Armageddon). Having a scenario specifically around building the GM and granting the GM award is gives me a chance to actually build this wonder.

This was way to easy. Maybe throw in a second leader that wants you to beat you in the hunt. Throw in a Hippus mercenary who has the same goals as you do just for fun.

It should declare war on you when you get the task to capture the griffin. That way you would have something to do while you hunt him. [shouldn't be a big thread, just a minor nuance to spice up this rather empty scenario]

Yes it's a cakewalk safari, but at least I got my first peek ever at a FfH2 gorilla!

I disagree. Building the GM in a real game is difficult.
IMO, that's the purpose of the trophies; to reward you for accomplishing something difficult!

As it is, you may as well not have the "Build the Grand Menagerie" trophy, as it's (virtually) implicit in the "Complete the Grand Menagerie Scenario" trophy.

I like the concept, but it was not at all challenging and became boring. Here's my suggestion: After so many turns (25-30ish Normal?) Keelyn gets impatient and attacks you until you bring back an animal. It's a little manipulable, because you can just hold on to an animal until you need to cage it to make her leave, but may add some excitement.

While I guess it's a tutorial, even a barbarian presence would spice things up... well, other than I think one Hill Giant that bothered me at some point. Something like a goblin fort at a chokepoint or a small barbarian city harassing the tourists doing a safari on their island, might be satisfying. At least would teach you to preserve your wounded animals as they limp home. If there were a barb city or two, having them autoraze if captured would be fine.

I suppose it's okay that no animals have HN once captured, saves you from either accidentally or intentionally going to war with your employer. *shrugs*

i think this would have been funner with barbs. after you have a few high level hunters, there is nothing to worry about

I lost my Ouliphant to wolves the turn I got him & I didn't find another for 30 or so turns. Had no trouble with the gryphon tho.
Also all the scenarios flavor text are rife with spelling/grammatical errors.
If the scenario didn't give the menagerie award, it would certainly make it much more difficult to attain.

I like this scenario.

What would make this scenario MUCH less of a hassle is if you could build Hawks. A Hunter armed with a Hawk is a thousand times better at tracking down animals than without, and it would teach players to make good use of Hawks.

I will also second that I expected this scenario to be a bit harder and less monotonous, and that it's annoying having the animal explanation blurb pop up every time you fight an animal.

Don´t know where to post this to get it to the programmers
my guess at the cause for the 'enter scenario on turn 1 '-crash, can´t verify it
no technology chosen for research - set some default

It would be nice building of wealth was enabled. After you have a few hunters, any more are just a pointless distraction.

I'm still wondering whats the role of the 2 Giant Monkeys in that game ;)

I don't even find an elephant. Millions of lions are spawning but no elephant. I already had a hill giant and a giant spider, but ... no elephant. Thinking of needing a griffin gives me the creeps.

[edit]

THIS was half an hour ago. After posting I went back to my save point and got an elephant after 10 turns or so. Next target: "Chicken Cat" Okay - I didn't even know how it looked like. A griffin appeared and I thought: Better safe than sorry. I subdued it and *ploing* The scenario was over (without ever getting that chicken cat). Bug?

It is not a bug. Chicken-cat is just a silly childish name that Keelyn uses to refer to griffons.

Still unable to finish this scenario; after getting all animals no further instructions are given. :sad: Does anyone know why this happens to a few people? Maybe a script doesn't run, maybe something to do with Vista...

Yes me2.

Although after several hundred moves of looking for a griffon:mad: I gave up and checked it our in the world bulder - No griffon. So I put one there:p

So maybe there is something stopping you cheating:(

Yeah right ... I knew that - just wanted to test you. :P *sigh* Lemme guess: If I'd had read this thread here more careful I would have known that without dumbassing myself. Right? :)

Yeah right ... I knew that - just wanted to test you. :P *sigh* Lemme guess: If I'd had read this thread here more careful I would have known that without dumbassing myself. Right? :)

Above the score table in game, it would have told you to capture a griffin. :P

Does the bounty hunter promotion not work on animals normally? It's not working in this scenario.
& for the record, I think this scenario does what it was designed to do pretty well.

IMO, that's the purpose of the trophies; to reward you for accomplishing something difficult!

As it is, you may as well not have the "Build the Grand Menagerie" trophy, as it's (virtually) implicit in the "Complete the Grand Menagerie Scenario" trophy.

Looks like you got your wish. I hadn't completed the GM scenario til patch c. I played through and started building the GM and was told to capture an elephant and a griffin. I caught both in short order before I had fully constructed the GM. The scenario was over and, although I received the GM Scenario trophy, I missed out on the GM Trophy.

I tried a reload from an old save. This time I didn't go hunting til I had completed the GM. Still no GM Trophy.

I loaded patch d, replayed the scenario from scratch, built the GM before hunting Elephants and Griffins, still no GM trophy. Is this intended behaviour or a bug? If it is intended behaviour, how about an event for FoL followers that grants you an animal of your choice to help build the GM in the main game?

Other things that might be nice in this scenario:

* Capacity to build Hawks, as has been mentioned by others.
* A road from Belseraphs to Lanun.
* Open Borders.
* The ability for the Spider to build the spider pen for Silk...
* ...and thus, implicitly, the option to sell Silk to the Belseraphs, more for flavour than economy.

Does the bounty hunter promotion not work on animals normally? It's not working in this scenario.
& for the record, I think this scenario does what it was designed to do pretty well.

I remember reading somewhere that the bounty hunter promotion doesn't apply to animal kills.

Has anyone who had an issue with scenario progress tracking (IE not getting a new 'goal' after caging the first 5 animals) had any luck in getting it working properly?

Yeah, any solutions for this problem? I am afraid to try other scenarios with this unresolved, since events like these not triggering would probably make many scenarios unplayable. :(

The only improvment I can think of is a Giant Spider intro (You can be gifted the necessary tech by Keelyn), as well as renaming the towns. I dislike that Jubilee and Innsmouth are on the same island, as so close.

The only improvment I can think of is a Giant Spider intro (You can be gifted the necessary tech by Keelyn), as well as renaming the towns. I dislike that Jubilee and Innsmouth are on the same island, as so close.

We should probably rename the towns in all the scenarios. But I doubt that would be high on the priority list.

Yeah, any solutions for this problem? I am afraid to try other scenarios with this unresolved, since events like these not triggering would probably make many scenarios unplayable. :(

Well I'm officially stumped. I did a complete uninstallation (including deleting old save games and replays etc) and reinstall of Civ 4, Warlord, BTS, patches, FFH2, and still I cage my last bear and the scenario just stops progressing. No prompt to build Menagerie, no contact from Keelyn, no prompt to capture a new animal, nothing (even built the Grand menagerie with no improvement on the situation).

It's a fun scenario and a good introduction to capturing animals. I had to wait 70+ turns for the griffin to show up, so that was the only frustrating aspect of the scenario.

One idea that might be nice is a dungeon with a scripted, repeating event upon exploration. The event would be something like the following:

"Your unit delves deep into the earth and meets an ancient, wizened old man. The man says he has wandered these lands for many years, and offers to tell you something of its inhabitants."

1. Ask him about Wolves
2. Ask him about Lions
3. Ask him about Bears
4. Ask him about Tigers
5. Ask him about Gorillas
6. Ask him about Spiders
7. Ask him about Griffins
8. Ask him about Hill Giants

Each answer could provide some information specific to the map, and perhaps some hints on how to find the animal. For example, the Wolf answer could be:

"Ah, wolves. They are a constant threat and dwell in the tundras north of here. You needn't search long before you will find one."

For the Griffin:

"I see you seek the most rare of all creatures, the wonderful Griffin. Know that these beasts roam the skies and sail on the winds of the oceans. They will prey on the weak, so if you wish to find one, you must bait them with a tasty morsel."

And for the Hill Giant:

"Yes, yes, the legends are true, I've seen him with my own eyes! If you travel east through the hills, be wary, for the Hill Giant roams those lands and will kill any who trespass there. It is a powerful beast, and only the most experienced can have any hope of defeating it."

Well I'm officially stumped. I did a complete uninstallation (including deleting old save games and replays etc) and reinstall of Civ 4, Warlord, BTS, patches, FFH2, and still I cage my last bear and the scenario just stops progressing. No prompt to build Menagerie, no contact from Keelyn, no prompt to capture a new animal, nothing (even built the Grand menagerie with no improvement on the situation).

I'm not an expert but if you want to get more info posted so that someone else might be able to help there's something you could try that Ori taught me.

Open your civilizationIV.ini and set all items with log in their name from 0 to 1 and then start the game, load the game in question, exit the game and then post all items in my games\beyond the sword\logs as a zip file attachment here.
(Although I'm not sure if that will show the problem you're having, it just posts the technical logs from the last game you load)

You could also try opening a new thread on the troubleshooting page to get more opinions, though the moderator might move it back here.:nospam:

I'm not an expert but if you want to get more info posted so that someone else might be able to help there's something you could try that Ori taught me.

Open your civilizationIV.ini and set all items with log in their name from 0 to 1 and then start the game, load the game in question, exit the game and then post all items in my games\beyond the sword\logs as a zip file attachment here.
(Although I'm not sure if that will show the problem you're having, it just posts the technical logs from the last game you load)

You could also try opening a new thread on the troubleshooting page to get more opinions, though the moderator might move it back here.:nospam:

Thanks for the help. I attached rar file with all the logs in it. :goodjob:

I finished this one. It was a fun diversion from the normal warfare. The griffon was tough to find at the end. I had a lions and tigers and bears (oh my!) that all had five combat promos.

There were a few gramatical errors that I saw in the writeup. As was previously mentioned, the intro is written in the 3rd person and the conclusion is written in the 1st person...they should match. In the sescription for the griffion the work may is used instead of the work make. In the intro there is a repeated word in one of the paragraphs...I will load it up ad give more info on this one since I can't remember right now.

Is there any way to make the popups only appear one time each?

edit: The other gramatical error is in the intro. Towards the end a sentence reads "...he had been serving with since Familiar since they were boys." The first since is unnecessary in that sentence.

For those who had my same issue, I went thru and did another reinstall, but this time I tracked down every civ or ffh related file on my computer before I reinstalled and deleted them, including prefetch files and saves on my brothers user account.

Seems to be working for me now, realized things were going well when I got the pre-game pop up with backstory and more then 1 of each animal spawned (making it more challenging to get the animals back to town then I remember.

To be honest, I thought this was a pretty boring scenario. Repetitive, and not much fun. Far too many annoying animals (wolves, lions, et.c) that kept attacking my hunters (without ever having a chance to do any real damage), and not enough to do. No strategy involved, just capture this (boring searching) and capture that (more boring searching). And the griffon killed itself on my elephant and the replacement decided to spend an eternity on the sea where I couldn't reach it.

I think the scenario could be more interesting if there was someone or something that tried to keep you from achieving your objective. Or something to make it more varied. Also, more events during the gameplay could probably help. Hawks would almost definitely make it better, as the searching would feel a bit more strategic.

(though I would probably just ditch this one and concentrate on perfecting the other scenarios)

Ok, can any one tell me how my hunter got mutated? Is Kaelyn up to some tricks? I just noticed it, one of my hunters (near the center of the board) is diseased, has stoneskin and mobility and is mutated!

Best wishes,

Breunor

PS. Why does the scenario have the giant tortoise? Is it to make sure there is always a barbarian unit on the map?

Silly kaelyn, up to your nasty tricks again?

I think the tortoise is in their for decoration, it's a sweet island full of animals, why not give you guys something to look at in the water. Realise that in Erebus, the world doesn't revolve around you, so why should everything on the map benefit or inhibit you?

@Old MacDonald-- I think this was just an introdution to the quest system and to animal capturing for newer players, realise that technically we have been playing a BETA, so this being the first true release there should be stuff to help the learning curve with new players.

@Old MacDonald-- I think this was just an introdution to the quest system and to animal capturing for newer players, realise that technically we have been playing a BETA, so this being the first true release there should be stuff to help the learning curve with new players.

Still, I don't think new players will find it very entertaining either. It's just too limited in terms of what you can do. You just run through it on autopilot, trying not to get annoyed by the constant attacks from animals that just get in the way.

And if it was nothing but a tutorial it should just have ended when you built the menagerie (adding the possibility to build a hawk would also be sensible if it was a tutorial). The rest just felt like a boring way to make it longer, and there's the obvious problems with the griffon (who might leave the island) as well.

Ok, I figured out why I got the mutated hunter -- I didn't realize that the Lanun palace has chaos mana! Therefore, your troops will get these enraged promotions and the like eventually.

Best withes,

Breunor

The Scenario has a really limited replay value...because it's one sided and there is no way to lose...in my opinion there should be other civs trying to capture animals so that it's a rush for building the Grand Menagerie before others...otherwise i would suggest to make The Momus scenario available without completing The Grand Menagerie for the reasons already given.

If this scenario is a tutorial, why are there other scenarios that require you to complete this one? Are they also tutorials?

I played this to the point where I was supposed to look for the griffin, got very bored, and quit. I don't think I'm going back to it. So unless there's a way to cheat my way around this, I don't think I'll see the scenarios that require you to finish this one.

Are they also tutorials?
No, The momus is actually quite hard if you try it the first time.

So unless there's a way to cheat my way around this, I don't think I'll see the scenarios that require you to finish this one.
You can edit the trophy file and change the 0 in grand menagerie into a 1.

Is that the one in my documents/my games? This is what the file contains for me:


(dp1
S'TROPHY_DEFEATED_ORTHUS'
p2
I1
sS'description'
p3
S'store trophies value'
p4
s.


I don't see grand menagerie mentioned in it.

Anyone? How can I skip that scenario?

just open up worldbuilder and look where the griffon is. then just move your hunters there and he will come and sweep upon you. scenario won.

Anyone? How can I skip that scenario?

if you go to the scenario folder within the assets folder of FF2, you can open up scenarios directly from there.

the file path will look something like

Program Files/Firaxis Games/Civ 4/BTS/Mods/FF2/Assets/Scenarios

just double click on the scenario you want to open. (this was the route I was using to play scenarios before the duel map fix)

Not sure whether you would have to continue going this route for successive scenarios though (ie; not sure if Radiant Guard can be accessed once Momus has been completed but GM has not) or indeed whether trophies are awarded for completed scenarios when pre-requisite scenarios have not been completed.

As such, the worldbuilder, delete griffon route seems the better option to me...

Will anything be done about the griffon only flying over water?

Had to add land in worldbuilder after I waited 30 turns for it to move away from one of the edges of the map.

Didnt overly like the Grand Menagerie scenario. The Momus scenario was much much better. Get subdue animals promo (need combat I) with scouts/hunters, and go on a capturing spree.

Problems:

1) Too MANY freaking animals spawn, except for the Griffon and first elephant, which take FOREVER.

2) No option to build "nothing" so the stupid city popup leaves you alone when you have 20 animals and 10 hunters sitting in the capital.

Not the most interesting scenario, but it did exactly what it intended - to teach the noob (such as I) all about the hunt. And I never did know how to build the grand menagerie and I don't think I will ever in a normal game. It's just too much of a hassle. When I first played FFH2, I didn't bother to look at the civilopedia and just played around with the grigori (becuz adventurers intrigued me :D woo for 1 xp per turn). In any case, the elephant and the griffon were abit slow to come out.

I was positively surprised about the scenario. I realize that it is only tutorial-material, but I think it did well.

I think the scenario should remain a prerequisite to Momus, as the story is established in this scenario. I really like the way you get to know Falamar's thoughts in the initial text.

The quest system worked well, I had no problems with it at all. Also, the popups that come when you defeat an animal are very helpful. I, despite being a Monarch FfH player, had no idea how one got Wolf Packs, Lion Prides, and the like.

All in all, nice, easy, short establishing scenario... Now, on to the Momus, which seems way harder. I am looking foward to it. I really appreciate the appearance of the Balseraph in these scenarios as well.

I'd suggest two basic additions to the scenario to make this a complete hunting tutorial:

1) add in parrots for the reasons stated above

2) since every other animal is dealt with in this scenario, you might as well make a Giant Spider/Spider Pen objective (to make it different to the other objectives, only put baby spiders on the map so the player has to grow the spider first)


A few suggestions to spice this scenario up (as it is rather boring):

1) Change the Aegean Isles into an archipelago. Set it up like the Galapagos, with each island having a unique biome and the relevant animals (with some redundancy, so it is not just one animal per island). Sprinkle in some dens on the starting map, so new players get to see them (I saw none when I played). Allow players to build basic ships obviously.

2) Add in some competition so it becomes a race of sorts, as previously suggested. Have the race develop in multiple stages (GM first, then other animal objectives). To keep it easy, maybe require that the player only wins a certain number of the races (but they still have to complete each objective before the next race starts). Maybe the GM race counts for 2-3 points so that it is the most important, and the rest count for 1 point. You win if you have more points than your opponent (maybe displayed to the player via mood bonuses, +1 - You were the first to bring me an Elephant).

3) Split up the starting areas away from the Isles. Maybe Keelyn and your competition start on a sliver of a continent, and you start on an island off the mainland. Your first objective could be to sail to Keelyn to get your mission. Sailing back and forth from the Isles could add a level of risk, as your low level ships compete with sea creatures to get the animals back safely (the first time you sight each sea creature, a pop up describing it could come up). Having a bunch of sea creatures around the Isles could add to their mystique and feeling of remoteness too.

4) Have open borders with Keelyn and build the cages in her city. That way, she builds the GM, not you (which also solves the extra trophy issue and makes players want to build the GM themselves in a regular game even more, as they never get to build it in this scenario). You might have to give Keelyn two cities in order to make the race with the other civ work (you have to get cages and the GM built in city A, your competition has to do it in city B).

5) To make the race part even more exciting, add in a race against time for the second phase (post GM phase). Give Keelyn's city/cities only a few hammers, so the GM builds slowly. Once she starts building, you get a pop up where she tells you she wants to throw a grand opening party for the GM. She needs silk for the performers' costumes and she wants an elephant for the show as well. You have to gift her an elephant and get a baby spider, grow it to a giant spider and build a silk pen in the city with the GM before she finishes the GM (if you manage to do it in time, she gets a bunch of hammers and finishes the GM on the next turn). You could leave the Griffon as a third, untimed phase (after the great party [or, if you failed the second phase, after you get her both items], she comes to you and says she feels the GM is incomplete and wants a Griffon to add to her collection).

I think the above suggestions would preserve the tutorial nature of this scenario, but make it MUCH more interesting and fun to play, as well as feel more immersed in the lore.

I think most of you are trying to turn this into a challenging and longer scenario; it is meant to be an introduction to hunting (and to the story), not a "real" scenario... I would not like it to be filled with lairs and opponents, that simply confuses the player and leads attention from the main objective (and some of the suggestions does not fit with the lore of the scenario).

I think most of you are trying to turn this into a challenging and longer scenario; it is meant to be an introduction to hunting (and to the story), not a "real" scenario... I would not like it to be filled with lairs and opponents, that simply confuses the player and leads attention from the main objective (and some of the suggestions does not fit with the lore of the scenario).


Nothing I suggested would make the scenario more difficult or longer.

Your opponent for Keelyn's bounty is not an enemy, and all three players would obviously always be at peace with each other.

I really liked the light-hearted spirit of this scenario, but I think that a few tweaks could make it even more enjoyable:

- Let the player build parrots
- Let the player build research (or gold) so he can stop building hunters
- Allow the mobility promotions (or allow the research of horse riding for it, without gaining anything else of course)
- Stop the cities from evolving, so people don't think that there would be a point: no population or culture gain

And for cosmetic purposes those could be nice:
- Change the name of the cities to something less legendary than the civs' capitals, like "Base camp" and "Keelyn's camp"
- Having those cities be oversized tent buildings (the carnival and freak show fit) instead of normal city graphics would be awesome

Hi all, i decided this morning to try the scenarios after several successful games of FFH (still rather new to this great Mod).

However when I try the Grand Menagerie, i get a CTD every time. Its the first error I've had with FFH. I'm running XP. I tried the helpful hint of loading it from an old game, but same thing.

Any ideas?

Edit: Never mind I figured something out. Once I highlighted a different scenario, then returned to GM it worked fine.

I liked the scenario. Completed it on the first try. I was a bit worried when the animals did not appear, but soon enough I realised that the appropriate animals were spawning over time. So, when there was not the proper animal animal around just waited a few turns.

The inability to order the city to build nothing was a bit irritating. I had to create hunters and delete them as soon as created...Not the most fun thing to do.

A nice tutorial conserning animals. I felt I learned a lot, although I think all this info should be in the civilopedia, at the specific section for each animal.

Excellent appetizer! Simple, short, and after playing FFH for 1.5 years ... it is the 1st time I have the opportunity to build the Grand Menagery !!! THANK YOU !!!

I haven't read the whole thread, but I noticed that Gorilla's have HUGE bloodspurts compared to everything else; they take up the whole screen. Playing with patch y.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I noticed that Gorilla's have HUGE bloodspurts compared to everything else; they take up the whole screen. Playing with patch y.

This is a patch related problem. Hopefully it will be corrected next patch.

Hmm... I CAN HAS GWYFFON PLS?

Is there a way to turn off upkeep on this scenario? I basically had no choice but to pump out hunter after hunter and a huge stockpile of animals - eventually I had every square in sight thanks to various hunters and my captured animals - and still the Griffon stayed out over the ocean south of Innsmouth.

I ended up plopping one down in world builder just to finish the scenario - either more griffons or a slightly more reliable way of getting them to swoop in would be good. Mine was hanging around the polar ice caps...

In the meantime I think I got nearly 10 tigers and gorillas and 4 elephants...

Hmm... I CAN HAS GWYFFON PLS?

Is there a way to turn off upkeep on this scenario? I basically had no choice but to pump out hunter after hunter and a huge stockpile of animals - eventually I had every square in sight thanks to various hunters and my captured animals - and still the Griffon stayed out over the ocean south of Innsmouth.

I ended up plopping one down in world builder just to finish the scenario - either more griffons or a slightly more reliable way of getting them to swoop in would be good. Mine was hanging around the polar ice caps...

In the meantime I think I got nearly 10 tigers and gorillas and 4 elephants...


From a financial standpoint you should probably disband the extra animals, only keep a few especially once you have a lot of hunters.

Best wishes,

Breunor

From a financial standpoint you should probably disband the extra animals, only keep a few especially once you have a lot of hunters.

Best wishes,

Breunor

Oh I did :) But it was also a case of trying to find the Griffon... I used the animals as extra pairs of eyes as it were...

Which is a bad idea, since animals wil not spawn in anyone's line of sight.

So, am I missing something? I get the 5 animals for the Menagerie and cage them. After caging the last one, the red 'objective' simply does not appear again. I tried building the Grand Menagerie, but with it did nothing to advance the scenario.
Cage all of them. Look at the red objective thing again. It should change (or a popup will appear).

Edit: Spoiler removed, sry.

Cage all of them. A popup story will appear, and you'll have to hunt for an Elephant, then a Griffin. After you capture the Griffin, the scenario ends.

Why should you post such a spoiler? :lol:

New to FFH2 and Civ4 in general. Actually got Civ4 to play the mod, sad as it sounds. :lol: Anyway, playing most of the scenarios on a low difficulty level since I'm new, so hopefully my feedback as a noob will be helpful.

I found Grand Menagerie to do a good job of what it's designed to do, give us the tutorial on hunting and the animal city improvements. Unfortunately you don't get to use these skills in the other scenarios very often, since animals disappear so quickly, but it was interesting to play at least.

I do have a few criticisms. I'll put the rest of this in a spoiler just to be safe.

1. You can capture a spider here, but you can't build a spider pen. When I first played through his scenario, this led me to believe that unlike the rest of the animals, the spider doesn't have a corresponding city building, which isn't true. I think the spider pen should be buildable, even if it's not actually required to win the scenario.

2. Being able to build culture, research, or wealth would be helpful for the end of the scenario. Quite often I built hunters only to immediately dismiss them so the island didn't get too cluttered. I didn't realize at the time that barbarians didn't spawn in line of sight, so it's a good thing I decided to junk them and the extra animals anyway. :lol:

I didn't have much problem finding the gryphon. Maybe I was just lucky in that regard.

1. You can capture a spider here, but you can't build a spider pen. When I first played through his scenario, this led me to believe that unlike the rest of the animals, the spider doesn't have a corresponding city building, which isn't true. I think the spider pen should be buildable, even if it's not actually required to win the scenario.

2. Being able to build culture, research, or wealth would be helpful for the end of the scenario. Quite often I built hunters only to immediately dismiss them so the island didn't get too cluttered. I didn't realize at the time that barbarians didn't spawn in line of sight, so it's a good thing I decided to junk them and the extra animals anyway. :lol:

I didn't have much problem finding the gryphon. Maybe I was just lucky in that regard.


In order to build the spider pen, you need a specific technology, not available in this scenario

In order to build the spider pen, you need a specific technology, not available in this scenario

True. It may make sense if you look at it that way, just seemed a bit misleading when the scenario is all about capturing animals and building their respective buildings.

I liked this as a sort of tutorial scenario, howver it didnt pepare u for momus which is much harder! Lovin' the ffh2 (the lanun r my favourit neutral nation). Is it possible to defeat Keelyn with culture (great bard=useful).

Never mind so far...

besides the scripts not fully working for me in this scenario (no keelyn telling me to catch elephant after i build GM), I noticed that animals do not respawn for me as well (Yes, I nest my hunter in the city for a few turns then checked WB). I have not changed anything in the game XML. does anyone else have this issue or know what might be causing it? i think the scenario scripts arent activating for me in general

I noticed that animals do not respawn for me as well (Yes, I nest my hunter in the city for a few turns then checked WB).

I had the same issue when playing the scenario. But Wages of Sin and The Splintered Court worked fine for me, although that was played in 0.40.

Did a clean uninstall and reinstall, same problem -.-

I remember reading in this thread something along the lines of "can the Lanun culturally conquer the Balseraphs?"

Well, I set out to see if I could, and I just did, on Turn 291.

After immediately building the carnival, I set my third citizen to be a bard. The slow increase in culture points from the Grand Menagerie and it's prereq animal cages, plus settling two great bards and getting one bard from the Menagerie, got my city's culture up to 84.00 Culture per turn. One of the three Great Bards I got I used as a culture bomb, the others I settled. My city's final culture was 18413.40. Oh, and I had 12 hunters fortified in my city, plus an elephant and a griffon.

This isn't really practical in any way, though, because I actually won the game a while ago. But it was a fun experiment.

Found a griffon, but I was using an unpromoted hunter as a scout and the hunter killed it! :cry: Now it's taking forever to find another one.