Post your feedback for this scenario here.

The intent of this scenario is that it is a tutorial for spell casting. Something to ease new players into FfH.

Crashes everytime I've tried to start it--other scenarios seem fine so far.

---ugh scratch that... must be coincidence that the first two loads ended up in CTDs and the 3rd was fine lol

someone has to explain meshabber's riddle to me... I stared at it for a full 5 mins and had absolutely no clue on what it really meant and had to *cough* go to trial and error

.. heisenberg, in the text, scroll down ...

Anoying thing is besides the crashing issue (I started the scenario from the folder instead from within the game) is when you die, all the "end windows" shows and one of them gives you the map. Okey I should have thought about that (and don't look so much at the map, but a couple seconds was enough), but normally I never "dies" and then load a save game to try again. Perhaps not the most important scenario to know the map in (or is it). I realise that this is probably nothing that can be solved, so let it be a warning for those that haven't played the scenario yet.

CtD when I tried to load the scenario.

Got the fix. Thanks.

Played the scenario and finished. Only issue is the riddle - it isn't terribly clear, even for a riddle. I'm guessing the five colors are red, black, green, gray and...? The five drinks are ale, grog, wine, water, and...? Then there's a pit, a cave, a dungeon, cliffs, a bed, and a tree? I'm suggesting a rewrite along these lines that would at least clarify some of the clue relations.

If you would pass beyond this door
Answer this riddle of forgotten lore
Five of each, beast, lair, color and drink
Which is which, is that all, d'you think?
The question asked of the quester be,
Which of these likes to snack on thee?

Satyr, Naga, Werewolf, Harpy,
And golem are the five you see.


...And that's all I've got so far. If the scenario authors want to fill me in on the clue-puzzle relation, then I suppose I could write out the riddle with clues more clearly filled in. As it is, the thing just turned into a guessing game. I think the riddle could be shortened without giving too much away, and that would yield a more concise logic puzzle.

or I could simply be an obtuse m'f'er that couldn't see past an obvious solution.

I seriously don't get the riddle :(

I seriously don't get the riddle :(

Bah, it only took me four tries in my little guessing game:rolleyes:

I couldn't get the riddle either. I just reverted to trial-and-error.

Also, am I the only person who can't kill the Stoneskin Ogre? Am I missing something? Is there some way to kill or bypass the ogre? Maelstrom often doesn't do enough damage to permanently harm it, and fireballs just do nothing. Did I miss a treasure chest somewhere?

I couldn't get the riddle either. I just reverted to trial-and-error.

Also, am I the only person who can't kill the Stoneskin Ogre? Am I missing something? Is there some way to kill or bypass the ogre? Maelstrom often doesn't do enough damage to permanently harm it, and fireballs just do nothing. Did I miss a treasure chest somewhere?

I didn't kill it. I won't spoil it for you but you should look better near him... I ask the same though, I left the tar monster alone, did I miss something?

also

I left the clockwork golem alone, I think I *could* kill him but he got 2 mov so I just ran away

I solved the riddle by trial and error too :P

I didn't kill it. I won't spoil it for you but you should look better near him... I ask the same though, I left the tar monster alone, did I miss something?

also

I left the clockwork golem alone, I think I *could* kill him but he got 2 mov so I just ran away

I solved the riddle by trial and error too :P

I killed the tar demon, you just missed three overs without the held promotion.

But how do I get to the room with the skeletons?

I liked the riddle. It wasn't trivial but didn't require any special knowledge that you can't expect a player of a fantasy strategy game to have. We all know what Nagas are, right?

Pointing out that the places have an internal relation (id est they are ordered from left to right) might save some frustration though.


I started with making a five by five grid to fill in whatever facts I figured out.

Then I figured out the order of dwellings. Filled in the easy stuff.

The information was organized in pairs, for instance the beer drinker likes brown.

Three or four of those taken together can only be placed in the grid in one way. All that remains is filling in the rest and the empty space is human favourite food.

Or one could guess.

You can easily sneak past the Clockwork golem with the invisibility potion you got by the sidar

And is there any reward for killing Tar Demon or Stoneskin Ogre?

And is there any reward for killing Tar Demon or Stoneskin Ogre?

So isn't the 'Awe' of your people enough for you, eh?

So isn't the 'Awe' of your people enough for you, eh?

..I tell you what: while playing Hearts of Iron 2, I captured Berlin by an elite cadre of paratroopers. I was playing Ireland. THAT time "Awe" of my people was more than enough for me :)...

And.. well, you see, that's a CRPG-style scenario. In RPG you always wait for some reward for crashing enemies, who were not designed for defeat :)

Of course, it's OK, if there's no reward. Scenario is still great.

..I tell you what: while playing Hearts of Iron 2, I captured Berlin by an elite cadre of paratroopers. I was playing Ireland. THAT time "Awe" of my people was more than enough for me :)...

And.. well, you see, that's a CRPG-style scenario. In RPG you always wait for some reward for crashing enemies, who were not designed for defeat :)

Of course, it's OK, if there's no reward. Scenario is still great.
Regarding this ...
I did it the hard way (killed most things on map) and for no appearant reason as it seams.

Got the correct answer of the riddle after 5 tries ;)

Sidar got killed before I got to it =( I got a lucky shot at the Clockwork Golem with my Fireball though. Liked this scenario =)

Got the correct answer of the riddle after 5 tries ;)

Sidar got killed before I got to it =( I got a lucky shot at the Clockwork Golem with my Fireball though. Liked this scenario =)

I almost used the trophy system to track failed responses and made meshabber offer more insulting comments as it went on. I might still add that.

i LIKE that idea, not all trophies are good ones. For example in elementary school you got a ribbon for up to 6th place. Believe me it is not fun to be number 6..., but I got my Trophy. Problem here is the fact that I would make the wrong answer just so I can get a laugh out of Meshabber responses. =)

I got stuck on the scenario for a while, as I didn't figure out I was supposed to actually approach Meshebber of Dis - I did my best to avoid him, since I knew from his stats that he'd kill me in an instant and was thus afraid of provoking him. This led to some frustration, as there was apparently no way to go. Only figured the right course of action from reading this thread.

It's kinda short. I beat it in about 30 minutes. Could use a little extending. That or I should play it harder than Noble. I think I'll do that. ..This entire message is now unnecessary.

I got stuck on the scenario for a while, as I didn't figure out I was supposed to actually approach Meshebber of Dis - I did my best to avoid him, since I knew from his stats that he'd kill me in an instant and was thus afraid of provoking him. This led to some frustration, as there was apparently no way to go. Only figured the right course of action from reading this thread.

Can't tell you how many times I tried to maelstrom him down to my level!:blush:

Rather than just have Meshabber just insult those who use a guess and check pattern, I really think that he needs to randomly choose offer one of several similar riddles with different correct answers.



I liked the scenario, but it seemed too short to me. I don't suppose I could convince you to expand it so that you have to study all 21 spheres of magic before you could complete it, could I?

Really great one. Haven't tried the dungeon modmod before, but i must say it's really fun. Looking forward to see more dungeon adventures.

By the way, how do I enter the room with the skeletons?

I liked the scenario, but it seemed too short to me. I don't suppose I could convince you to expand it so that you have to study all 21 spheres of magic before you could complete it, could I?Well, some don't lend themselves to puzzles much.
"If only you were more loyal to yourself, you could cross this bridge!" doesn't make a lot of sense.
Although charm person could be work well somewhere.

I almost used the trophy system to track failed responses and made meshabber offer more insulting comments as it went on. I might still add that.

Sounds interesting :p

Must agree with other posters that the Meshabber of Dis looks kind of frightening. I too tried to use Maelstrom a lot to get his strength down for several minutes before moving next to him.

Well I liked the riddle and having played lots of logic problems when younger immediately started drawing out the grid. :)

Sadly, my lines weren't very straight and it got a little confusing and in the end I gave up and guessed - wrongly. :eek:

Going to waste some time at work today drawing out a grid in excel to make this easier when re-trying this evening.

I did find the last clue somewhat confusing, as "black of heart" is not really clear whether it means they like Black, or are just evil for another reason - i.e. wanting to eat me.

edit: Oh, and it was annoying that you couldn't get the skeletons through the Fire & Air doors - though at least with the Air door you could throw it at the Tar Demon.

Is the Sidar important? Because it died before I got to it.

you get a potion of invisibility. Thats it, its pretty useful getting past the clockwork golem.

This was pretty fun, but I wish there was more of a reward for killing certain things, like the tar demon... I used my spell staff up to kill him, and nothing? He seems to really lack a point.

I second the question of how to get to those skeletons.

you get a potion of invisibility. Thats it, its pretty useful getting past the clockwork golem.

Huh? I got a message stating that the Sidar died when I single handedly took several tar demons. I figured it was just some kind of control variable - the monsters needed a "race" just to prevent BtS thinking you'd won a conquest victory - so I shrugged my shoulders and carried on.

Later on, after blapping the hellhound I got a message about a Sidar who handed me a potion of invisbility. In fact I got the message twice - though only got the potion the once. Used the potion and the Portal and got telported to the end of the game - seemingly in solid rock. Teleporting back to a town might be nice and give a slightly less huh?!? feeling, but I digress.

There were a couple of spelling errors in the scenario and in some of the other scenario descriptions (e.g. aide instead of aid), but all in all I enjoyed the game.

Re: The Demon. It's not obvious that you need to stand next to him. How about a triggered event once all the manes have been slain? Something like "Pitiful human. Would you dare pit your wits against mine? Stand before me and we shall see if you are worthy of your power."

Re: The Demon. It's not obvious that you need to stand next to him. How about a triggered event once all the manes have been slain? Something like "Pitiful human. Would you dare pit your wits against mine? Stand before me and we shall see if you are worthy of your power."

Or you could have him spawn when Dain approaches the door, so people are not afraid to go near him. He could appear and immediately ask his question. Of course, this would prevent people from knowing to save right before him (which I did), which could be good or bad.

I also cheated and just kept guessing until I got the answer. =/ I just did not understand the riddle.

I liked the riddle and worked it out with a few sheets of paper in about 15 minutes. I didn't particularly enjoy killing what seemed like 30 Manes by fireballing them over and over (and over and over and over . . .)

And yes -- how DO you get into the room with the skeleton?

Not sure if I should put this in spoiler tags so just to be safe I will.





Playing through this a second time, after my fifth turn the Sidar Adept killed destroying the Sidar civilization. After checking in the worldbuilder to see what happened I found it was the result of a barbarian Champion wandering over. Maybe having the Sidar at peace with the barbarians would stop the Sidar being destroyed?

Not sure if I should put this in spoiler tags so just to be safe I will.

Playing through this a second time, after my fifth turn the Sidar Adept killed destroying the Sidar civilization. After checking in the worldbuilder to see what happened I found it was the result of a barbarian Champion wandering over. Maybe having the Sidar at peace with the barbarians would stop the Sidar being destroyed?

That will be fixed in patch "b".

I had fun with this!

I would like the writers to know that I did them justice by solving the riddle.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=197556&stc=1&d=1229577428

Screenshot and a spreadsheet: Every Caswallawn's secret weapon.

Also, the Sidar died earlier on in my game too, but it's the spot he's on, not the unit, that triggers the event, so I still got the invisibility potion. I thought it was intentional, since he was invisible and all.

Took me tons of turns spamming Maelstrom before finding the "non-violent" ways of passing the big dudes.

Fun stuff here.

By the way, how do I enter the room with the skeletons?

There is a secret door at the south wall to your right after the first door.

Like I said before, great concept and execution. Although, I think the floating eye was unnecessary, as there were no invisible dangers and it kind of defeated the purpose of the maze... unless that is its purpose... I think most players are going to explore the area anyway and find the adept, or they might get lucky at the golem.

the floating eye was good warning for champions

the floating eye was good warning for champions

True, but they have 1 movement, and with your 2 movement and Sentry you don't really need any warning.

I was able to take them out pretty easily. Not sure why. Maybe I'm just lucky.

^.^" Way too short, but definately not bad.


BTW: I took out the clockwork golem with a single fireball XD Talk about epic... and lucky.

Absolutely beautiful scenario, and exactly what I was hoping for out of Ice - a fun scenario with significant differences from regular gameplay that advances the FFH plot. I loved the riddle. Meshabber could teach Perpentach a thing or two about poems.

Absolutely beautiful scenario, and exactly what I was hoping for out of Ice - a fun scenario with significant differences from regular gameplay that advances the FFH plot.

I was not going to comment on this at first, because I did not want to seem overly critical. :( But, we are supposed to be testing, so... I was actually dissapointed with the story and did not think it advanced the plot of FFH. It offered very little insight into Dain, both in the introduction and in the cave. He wandered around, killed things and solved puzzles, but we do not learn about his history or (most upsetting) his personality. The challenges were not tweaked to test his character, which I admit I was expecting, in order to let the player find out who this person is. That could have been any Amurite mage.

I've completed the scenario, but I didn't get to the room with the skelies. What's in it?

I've completed the scenario, but I didn't get to the room with the skelies. What's in it?

Just skelies, and a chest that teaches you to summon more skelies.

First play through I got overconfident about taking out the Manes by defending on a hill, only took 2 of them to take me down. Second round I beelined for Maelstrom and killed everything in the dungeon by attacking it (after enough Maelstrom's of course). Couldn't weaken Meshabber or Stoneskin quite enough, but if I had found the skeleton summon MAYBE I could have managed it (Immunity to Unholy would have helped against Mesh, but he'd probably heal far too fast for anything to really dent him). Good choice on where to set the next level, killing everything except the Sidar myself & on the attack resulted in me still not gaining a level.

And yes, as pointed out with the spreadsheet, Meshabber isn't asking a riddle, he is posing a logic puzzle, more specifically, a Logic Grid Puzzle. If you want to practice up to the point of solving one with so many factors, practice here (http://www.braingle.com/Logic-Grid.html) (they provide you with the grid you need for each puzzle)

How do you get past the ogres? Nothing I have will weaken them enough to not be strong enough to kill me if I get close enough, especially the Stoneskin.

How do you get past the ogres? Nothing I have will weaken them enough to not be strong enough to kill me if I get close enough, especially the Stoneskin.

Maelstrom works fairly well against the ogres, and you don't actually have to fight the stoneskin. If you go up from the door you came in there is a path that will take you behind the stoneskin and to the door...

yeah the stoneskin is held

Like I said before, great concept and execution. Although, I think the floating eye was unnecessary, as there were no invisible dangers and it kind of defeated the purpose of the maze... unless that is its purpose... I think most players are going to explore the area anyway and find the adept, or they might get lucky at the golem.

This could be forced by placing a patch of water in front of the doorway leading to the final room. A chest behind the Hellhound could grant the Water Walking Spell, thus forcing players to encounter the Hellhound and hence the Sidar/Potion of Invisbility.

Ah, but then you could avoid the encounter by fighting all the battles you can and getting enough xp to get one more level after getting the initial water I promotion. I almost got to that point once before me Dain died.

Edit: I just realized this wouldn't have been possible if I hadn't, as usual, removed the xp from barbarians cap.

Ok was fun introduction to magic and a good use of Lutefisks dungeon mod. But the riddle made me feel stupid.

I actually had to guess SIX times cause I was sure the Golem ate orcs cause I read "the Construct likes Green".

I liked the scenario, but it seemed too short to me. I don't suppose I could convince you to expand it so that you have to study all 21 spheres of magic before you could complete it, could I?

id like to second this. its wayyyyyyyyyyy too short.

This scenario gives me a CTD.

I tried 3 times and gave up. I will try a different scenario.

Now that I think about it, is there anything to explain who Dain is aside from his Pedia entry?

He's the leader of the Amurites :D

He's the leader of the Amurites :D
Not really, Valledia the Even is their leader. They live at the same time, and he is more like the top mage of the Amurites (the title of Caswallawn is something you only get by defeating the previous Caswallawn in mortal magic combat). And head advisor to Valledia.

Yes, Valledia is Queen of the Amurites, but dosen't have much magic ability (this, of course, is like saying Mahala is a physically weak Doviello), and Dain is Caswallen, or head-high-Archmage, and serves as an Advisor to Valledia.

I believe the Casawallen is in theory also the head of the army (the mages in the army at least), but for the most part it is an honorary position rather than one of real power. The chief duty of a Casawallen is to ensure that the Amurites magical bloodlines remain strong by mating with a lot of talented young women (or men, if said Casawallen in female). I tend to think that Dain might have been too shy to get dates and so took the trials mostly as a way to meet women, but now has so many girls forced on him that he is worn out and can't really enjoy sex anymore. The other chief duty of a Casawallen is to accept any challenge to magical mortal combat to defend his title. His skills are such that it would be very foolish to challenge him though.


The Amurite government is a Republic, more in the sense of Plato's Republic than in the modern sense. The aristocracy in Amurite Society is made of the heads of the mage guilds. At the top there is an elected monarch, Valledia. Valledia has no significant magical talent, but is an extremely shrewd politicians and an excellent blackmailer who has the aristocratic bureaucrats of the mage guilds terrified. They could easily kill her, but not before word got out of the head of the school of necromancy's necrophilia, and similarly embarrassing secrets about everyone else. It is illegal to track the bloodlines, but she does it anyway and is so actively breeding for the best mages. She was democratically elected and maintained her popularity much like Hitler and Saddam Hussein did. However, she does not have a huge ego and so has not displayed such hubris as most dictators do, and so will probably remain on top for quite a while.

I sincerely liked the Dungeon and I indeed solved the riddle just by creating my own grid system in excel.

I especially liked that you didnt had to explore/kill everything in order to solve the Dungeon.

You could easily outrun the Manes just blowing out the ones in your way, You could ignore the Tar Demon, Stoneskin Ogre and even outrun the Champions with the help of the Floating Eye (which I suppose is the whole purpose of the Floating Eye)

I didnt find the Skeletons and I didnt need to find the Adept as the Clockwork Golem seems to be pretty vulnerable to the fireballs.



But I sincerely disliked that you had only 2 movements and so youi had to hit enter very very often. In the afterworld mod the situation was different, as there you had more movement and could spend your movement on actions. I like this concept way more !!

In the dungeon the limited movement is kind of making it a staggering experience the smoothness is missing. It feels pretty ... ancient ..

My main problem with this scenario is what happens when you die. First, you're shown the entire map. Not in detail, but still. Second, you're forced into clicking through all the 'You Lost' screens so you can get back to the main menu and load a save. Or, just Alt-F4 and restart Civ. Neither option is very fun and we all know that sometimes, even the 99% combats are lost.

yah, I died in there too so i just said "meh. i might do this later."

Fun scenario. :b:

Loved the riddle too. :b:

Took me a bit with an excel sheet, but I got it. Though, like others, I didn't figure out I needed to walk right up next to him until I checked here.

i killede the tar demon, took a dozen fireballs. but I wanted to. You can skip most of the guys that fight. The toughest part was all the buggers that you had to use maelstrom on and hope only 1-2 attacked at a time.

I also don't want to see the whole map if I lose a battle.

The eye should be better somehow.
Give some minor extra if you kill the held monsters.
I miss that the hero can't get xp-promotions.
It's not fun that sceletons you have promoted alot can't move thoughh doorways.

i died twice with greater than 90% odds. that was not a good day. but because of that, i found that if you are in a combat where you are bound to die, such as the Mesha-thingy, if you click the menu button, the "you have been defeated" screen pops up over the menu, but when you click ok, the menu comes back on top, allowing you to load a game. Also, i found a thing that pops up next to dain when he's in a combat that he's going to lose.

I finished the scenario. Fairly cool. I missed leveling up, and some combats were a bit over repeative with fireballs. The dungeon idea is very cool.

I too tried to kill Meshabber, after I legged it in a panic looking for another way past. It wasnt until pure fustration that I charged the demon, and up popped the riddle. Very cool riddle. Solved it after 4 tries.

I killed the clockwork golem, but never did get to the skelly room...

Hate to be overly critical, but this one left me cold.

Too short, pretty tedious, nothing felt like there was any point to it. At no point was there any use of magic that required thought or cleverness... it was just open a box and it has what you need in it, go cast it in the obvious place, done. Suggestion: scenario should be about, oh, three times as long, and there should be actual puzzles, ie, something a little more complicated.

Tar Demon... why? It's held, poses no threat at all, and killing it gives you nothing. Pointless. Suggestion: remove the Held promotion so it can chase you, such that it's actually kind of scary.

I'm not into the lack of XP. BtS included a very fun adventure scenario where you wander around killing zombies (I think they were zombies? Been a while) and gathering powerups and whatnot. That was an excellent dungeon game... this was not. The removal of the possibility of leveling up made it very tedious. Leveling up makes me feel good... it's a little reward mechanism that keeps me going forward, because I'm close to the next one. With this it mostly just felt like a waste of time.

Lastly, as others said, there was nothing at all interesting about this in terms of the lore or character. It seems like a wasted opportunity... when I saw it on the scenario list I was excited, thought "that sounds really cool!" -- but the delivery was entirely meh-tacular. One riddle that had no relation to anything, a bunch of pointless combat, a couple "go to X and then go to Y" things, and it's done and I'm being told how I've done the impossible. Wooo.

As for Meshabber's riddle, I started to chart it out but before getting very far just guessed "golem" based on the lack of information either related to the golem or to "green," its colour (ie, a number of the others were ruled out because food was given, or given in relation to a colour), so while I hadn't actually proved for certain that it was the golem, it seemed pretty likely. Plus, I was getting bored.

I Did Not Get The Riddle :(

Actually thought this one was pretty neat - a few turns in when acquiring the first spell I realized it was kind of a tutorial so I wasn't expecting it to be epic like some of the others I have yet to finish. I guess part of the reason I liked it was simply the time I spent on the riddle and satisfaction from it (So, here's the story: I was playing this one late at night, finding Meshabber, I first was trying to avoid/damage him for a few turns, then set myself up so I could walk next to him and then run away- but that triggered the event. Of course, I was roleplaying going into the cave with only my wits, a salve, and a spellstaff - so I decided not to get out any paper or anything, and just do the riddle in my head. Then I spent about thirty minutes repeating things to myself like "tree, goat, middle, red, pit, end, cliff, green..." but got it right in the end, first try!

The one thing I realized about the riddle is it's actually not even clear which order, left to right, everything goes in. This is particularly troublesome since two places were specified with one left of the other... and other clues refer to one of the places as "first." But then going over it in my head both ways, I think it turned out the same if they are both left of the middle (the tree) or both right of the middle. All in all though I was quite pleased with the riddle, a fitting challenge, shame on all of you who failed...

PS. I'm not going to post in all the threads... loving pretty much all the scenarios though. I played through the first three ice ones a while back but was waiting for the final battle to be unlocked... now I hear I can access those "coming soon" scenarios through the files directly, even better!

I liked this scenario. The riddle was great (actually solved it, instead of guessing). I wouldn't change it, as people who are stumped by it can always guess.

I too high tailed it when I first saw Meshabber! :blush: Eventually, after spending a lot of time wondering around looking for an alternate path, I finally just walked up to him and viola!

The only suggestions I have would be to make Meshabber not so scary (have him call you over in a pop up the first time you see him so that it is apparent to the player that he is an NPC) and maybe try to work in a few more spells by adding in a few more puzzles (I don't think you should attempt to get all the spells in like others suggested, or this scenario would get too long - one or two of each spell type would do, especially since this is a tutorial type scenario, such as a direct damage spell, a summoning spell, etc.).

I did like how some sections were optional and/or had different ways to get past them. That really fits with the back story of the cave being a trial. I would definitely try to add more of that, especially if you are going to work in more spells.

I also agree that the scenario feels a little choppy. However, I wouldn't add in an Afterworld-type system, as then it would cease to really be a tutorial as the mechanics would be different to the main game. I would give everything in the scenario a mobility promotion or something so there is more movement in each turn though.

I too didn't get the riddle and had to do guess-work (I think I guessed wrong six times before getting it right, because I didn't pay attention the first two times). It made zero sense to me, and even after looking at the grid-chart that explains it... I'm still pretty lost. If I was a mage in Erebus, I'd be dead right now. Good thing I always saw myself as a Harlequin :lol:

I found the scenario a bit tedious to be honest. Random odds like 90% where you lose are particularly annoying to deal with, since you have to start over. I'm not 100% sure whether this is the best way to introduce new players to the spells system but I did enjoy the lore of this scenario (chickens truly are divine), so that's a positive I can take from it.

Also, I know you guys are aware of it, but the "Orc" Champions showed up as human. Just a bit of an oddity, although I didn't think human champions looked out of place (they looked ghostly), rather the fact they had the Orcish promotion looked out of place.

does beating this do anything, or is it just for fun?

Interestingly I used photoshop to solve the riddle instead of a spreadsheet. I throughly enjoyed it but it was a bit too hard to solve in your head.

I didn't like the combat with the champions in the maze though. They were weak enough to seem killable (as opposed to Meshabba and stoneskin) but it is seems impossible to get them up to even 80% chance of victory which is alright for an army but not your only unit. Was I missing some pac-man action?

The main thing though was that defeated fireballs seemed to be giving experience. Is this supposed to happen?

Just finished the scenario, patch t, and I have a few comments:

1)The fireball behaves strangely. It does not go through lava or water and does not get the benefit of the spell extention I promotion that Dain starts with. Also, starts with mobility I(?) and has 2 :move: with the mobility I.
2)The maelstorm pop up info incorectly states that it does 50% damage max, while now it does 30.
3)It is impossible to kill the stoneskin Ogre as it is now. It has 14 strength and regenerates 10% each turn. Max damage from maelstorm is 30%, but even if that goes in a single turn(impossible since Dain does not have any combat promotions), still the ogre has 9.5 strength approx.If you compare this with Dain's 5, you can see you can never kill that Ogre. This needs to be fixed IMO.

I would join with others saying this is a slow scenario, and the fact that the fireball is bugged makes it irritating. I would suggest giving Dain a few combat promotions, and the ability to gain the Haste spell when in the labirinth. After all, he is an Archmage!

@ThunderGr:

3: You do not need to kill the stoneskin... It is held. Think.

@ThunderGr:

3: You do not need to kill the stoneskin... It is held. Think.

So, how am I supposed to get through that door then? I can't pass over him now, can I?
Now, I did search for an alternative rout, but couldn't find any. If you say there is one, I must have missed something.
Anyway, the most significant issues are the rest. In this one I might have missed a scenario feature...

EDIT: By the way, I did try to attack it, and lost. He is not a riddle guy.

There is a route around.
also:

1)The fireball behaves strangely. It does not go through lava or water and does not get the benefit of the spell extention I promotion that Dain starts with. Also, starts with mobility I(?) and has 2 with the mobility I.

The "flying" ability is turned off in several of the scenarios, so no moving over water,etc.

You do realise that Spell extension I grants Mobility I, and that Fireballs have a base move of 1....

There is a route around.
also:


The "flying" ability is turned off in several of the scenarios, so no moving over water,etc.

You do realise that Spell extension I grants Mobility I, and that Fireballs have a base move of 1....

No, Fireballs have a base move of 2 and spell extension does not grant "Mobility" promotions to the summon, it adds +1 or +2 to the speed. The mobility pomotion can still be taken from UNITCOMBAT_MELEE summons, such as skeletons.
Plus fireballs do not have a specific "fly" promotion. They just move over any terrain+ impassable at cost of 1mp.

Trust me, I know my way around magic in FFH2 ;).

EDIT: However, no summoned unit with spell extension can take the mobility promotion.

No, Fireballs have a base move of 2 and spell extension does not grant "Mobility" promotions to the summon, it adds +1 or +2 to the speed.
Well I was just quoting Xienwolf's manual ... oh, and the Civlopedia.

Trust me, I know my way around magic in FFH2 ;).
Aparently not that well.

OK, I have played many games in FFH and fireballs have 2 base move and 4 with spell extension II. If you have played a single game using fireballs you should have known that.

I am not going to argue any more about obvious things, just start FFH and begin a game using Play Now.

Ah, I see; the "flying" promotion actually add +1 movement!

So Fireballs do actually have a Base movement of 1, but since they start with flying, it seems like 2.

Since flying is disabled in the scenario, the Fireball is back down to 1, but then raised to 2 by the Mobility granted from the spell extension.

Just shows that neither of us should jump to unnecessary conclusions; my apologies.

Also, I know you guys are aware of it, but the "Orc" Champions showed up as human. Just a bit of an oddity, although I didn't think human champions looked out of place (they looked ghostly), rather the fact they had the Orcish promotion looked out of place.

Just beat this again, the Sidar who gives you the potion also describes them as Orcs. I'm wondering if glasses have yet been invented on Erebus :lol:

The popup for Maelstrom still reads that the damage is 50% even though it has been nerfed to 30% in a patch.

Excuse me in advance for this useless and stupid post, but I'm stuck at the very beginning of this scenario (the fire rune door) without any spell, I looked everywhere around hoping for a secret door but didn't find anything ; then I did hit "enter" again and again hoping for a promotion, but nothing came (I stopped doing this at turn 140). I must be totally dumb, but I don't understand. A little help (PM ?) would be appreciated, thanks !

You should be able to enter after getting the treasure chest past the hellfire.

I see no one else is interested about the bugy fireball.
As for flying being "usually disabled in scenarios" it is at least missinformation. There is no such thing in Momus, Radiant Guard, Splintered Court etc. Fireballs work as they should there. I can't believe that in a scenario seemingly designed as a tutorial to magic, the texts are incorrect and the fireball is behaving erroneous, and, most of all, so many patches afterwards noone has decided to fix that.

Kael has said that flying is disabled in dungeons cause otherwise flying units would be able to fly over walls and doors etc.

There are no flying units in this scenario. And, even if they were, they could be confined in specific borders, just like the Grand Menangerie scenario. If you are to teach something, it is better to teach it well or not teach it at all, IMHO. As it is, this scenario could have been very well omitted and noone would have missed anything.

EDIT: OK, the fireball is a flying unit and could have gone over walls. Then it should have been given mobility 2, ignore movement costs and fire immunity.

Can't see any units or chests, only in this scenario ; actually, there is just nothing (ie. the first chest on the hill in front of the fire rune door).
Thanks for Deanej for all his help !
(patch x)

@Jfred : It appears that this scenario has been totally abandoned, since it is not updated with the patches. You do not miss anything really ;)

Can't see any units or chests, only in this scenario ; actually, there is just nothing (ie. the first chest on the hill in front of the fire rune door).
Thanks for Deanej for all his help !
(patch x)

This reminds me of Lukefisk Mafia complaining that patch x messed up some things in his scenario contest entry having to do with invisible chests.

I almost couldn't sleep one night fighting with those fkkkking bugz lol !

@Jfred : It appears that this scenario has been totally abandoned, since it is not updated with the patches. You do not miss anything really ;)

I thought the reason it hasn't been updated is because there weren't any bugs to fix. Are the other scenarios updated just for the sake of updating the scenarios?

I thought the reason it hasn't been updated is because there weren't any bugs to fix. Are the other scenarios updated just for the sake of updating the scenarios?

Obviously, you have missed the fireball bug and Maelstorm incorrect text. In addition, the dissapearance of the chests with patch x is a direct implication that this scenario is long forgotten.

The fireball behaves like a base fireball - the scenario is designed for noobs who probably won't even notice anything (I certainly didn't, but then again, I'm a noob when it comes to magic). Again, Flying is disabled in this scenario so that Fireballs won't fly over walls and doors. It's intended behavior.

As for text, we'll have to verify it ourselves or ask someone who's played it recently. Text changes are not mentioned in the patch changelog, so it could have been changed and we wouldn't even know it without playing it.

I haven't played this scenario prior to patch x, but with patch x and y it definitely seems to be broken. I can't see any chests before the fire door

The fireball behaves like a base fireball - the scenario is designed for noobs who probably won't even notice anything (I certainly didn't, but then again, I'm a noob when it comes to magic). Again, Flying is disabled in this scenario so that Fireballs won't fly over walls and doors. It's intended behavior.

As for text, we'll have to verify it ourselves or ask someone who's played it recently. Text changes are not mentioned in the patch changelog, so it could have been changed and we wouldn't even know it without playing it.

The fireball cannot move over lava FGS! I have already proposed a solution to the problem. Give this scenario's fireball Mobility II and fire immunity(so it can move over lava).
Besides, if a noobie cannot notice a faulty behaviour, this cannot justify the behaviour itself. You are supposed to be teaching something, you are not supposed to count on ignorance to teach something in a faulty way...

I have already verified the text is wrong. I do not understand what do you mean by "we". Who is "we" in contrast with "us", meaning me and Mesix that we have already report it?

In addition, new players already report the problem with the chests, starting with x, and not fixed with y...So, I really don't see any point in your arguments. I hope you don't argue just for the shake of the argument...

By "we" I ment the forum. If the text is vereified that's fine, but I didn't do it myself and there was no indication on this thread (that I can remember) that anyone had verified it since the patch after the maelstrom nerf.

Hm, It seems like this scenario is broken right now, as none of the chests are in the game (eg. NO SPELLS)

I think this bug may be getting fixed in patch z. Most of the time treasure chests are invisible, but in Gift of Kylorin they aren't. The current patch z changelog consists of: 1. Fixed an issue where removing invisibility from a treasure chest deleted the chest.

Hm, It seems like this scenario is broken right now, as none of the chests are in the game (eg. NO SPELLS)

playing this for the first time today i was just sitting there scratching my head. not seeing any chest and have no spells.
sigh. looks like fun though, will have to check back.

There is a know bug that will be fixed in patch z.

Z fixed it, and I got to try it not long after it went out. Have to say I was rather pleased, the scenario does a good job as a tutorial of sorts. Some spoilerific comments:

1. Loved the riddle. Took me a while to puzzle it out, but I was very satisfied to complete it on the first try. The only problem is that Mr. Giant Demon from the Abyss is absurdly intimidating and I admit I at first tried to hammer him with Maelstroms and Fireballs (ineffectively) before I finally approached him. :lol:

2. You can nab the Skeleton summon from the secret room, but it's not actually all that useful. I can't think of anywhere where I used it that another spell wouldn't have worked just as well, and most enemies you could hammer with Fireballs/Maelstroms while playing keep-away almost indefinitely due to Dain's 2 movement.

3. The Sidar mentioned Orcs. There were some Champions lurking about, but they didn't look orcish to me, so I'm going to assume there's some sort of graphical issue (Orcs have Ogres instead, right?)

I have to say, this scenario was pretty awesome. Good job whoever designed it, I'd definitely love to play more dungeon adventures.

The skeletons are useful! I used him as cannon fodder for the Stoneskin Golem and he actually killed him! Hooray for the RNG! Then I saw the back path.

Um... I'm walking up to the Meshabbir of Dis and I'm not getting any riddle pop up? I'm just getting attacked...