Into the Desert feedback [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

Nikis-Knight

Dec 19, 2008, 07:42 PM

I chose to play Malakim and I got Calabim.Clearly the previous event just writes them backwards. It'll be fixed, thanks.
Playing Malakim, I used my priest to build a temple and found the empyrean. Now that I've discovered honor, I get a pop up at the start of every turn asking which religion I want to found, Order or OO. I click on one but it does nothing (I'd assume because they're disallowed in the scenario?) and the next turn, the same thing happens.This happens when you found a religion through a unit before someone has the researched it. Maybe a bigger fix would be good, but in the meantime it is balanced around not getting the religion that way, but we seemed to have left in that Vicar.

I've only played as the Calabim. When you send a nightwatch near one of Kain's cities that he throws all his city's soldiers to their death leaving that city vulnerable to barbarian attacks. Is this deliberate?Hidden Nationality seems to attract undo attention from the ai. It's not especially intended for this scenario, but keep it in mind.

petcarcharodon

Dec 20, 2008, 03:01 AM

i had a pick religon after researching honor, i had alredy discovered empyrean with a vicar. i picked OO :D

I founded Esus. :lol:

MagisterCultuum

Dec 20, 2008, 03:46 AM

I was afraid that someone would research all the other religion and case a game ending bug, so I chose The Order. Since this religion is disabled, it could not be founded, and I had to choose it again every turn.

I really do think we need a larger fix for this. I think Kael already dealt with it (and the potential CtD it can cause when it tried to found an 8th religion) for religions founded by disciples spreading religions, but didn't remember that when he allowed spells to found religions too.

In the mean time, I'm thinking it may be a good idea to make all the Found Temple spells require the techs that founds their respective religions. The scenario should probably specifically tell you to research Honor too.

Grey Fox

Dec 20, 2008, 09:08 AM

I accidentally chose Malakim in the previous scenario but wanted to chose Calabim, and since I got Calabim I was satisfied. :p

Anyways, first mission was to raze the barbarian city of "Dirge". I couldn't find it, but I did find a city belong to Varn Gosam named "Dirage". First I thought there might be two similar sounding cities, but I later declared war on Varn and razed the city, it was the one. So fix the spelling error from "Dirge" to "Dirage".

Then I had 75 turns to weaken the Malakim and since I was at war already I didn't need to use Hidden Nationality units as Flauros suggested, so I continued to raze all of Varn's cities, eventually killing him off entirely. I figured I would try to get some Hidden nationality units and "weaken" my friend Kane a bit. Well, once I reached Guilds (none of my assassins got CoE religion so couldn't turn HN) I had like 5 turns left to weaken Malakim.
But once all 75 turns had elapsed I won immediately. Even though I had gotten a new mission to raze all Empyrean cities, and there were plenty of empyrean cities left in the world. Non that belonged to the Varn Gosian Malakim, but Kane had plenty and was following the religion.

Nikis-Knight

Dec 20, 2008, 09:32 AM

Anyways, first mission was to raze the barbarian city of "Dirge". I couldn't find it, but I did find a city belong to Varn Gosam named "Dirage". First I thought there might be two similar sounding cities, but I later declared war on Varn and razed the city, it was the one. So fix the spelling error from "Dirge" to "Dirage".Boo. I guess that means the Barbarians deleted their hill giants there. It's so hard to have the ai controlled players NOT delete their units.:mad: (That's why Muirin is a world unit, actually.) Oh, maybe if there are some units there with city_defender ai... heh...

But once all 75 turns had elapsed I won immediately. Even though I had gotten a new mission to raze all Empyrean cities, and there were plenty of empyrean cities left in the world. Non that belonged to the Varn Gosian Malakim, but Kane had plenty and was following the religion. Okay, thanks. I'd prefer it if you didn't win until all Empyrean cities were gone. But at least you got to finish it alright.

In the mean time, I'm thinking it may be a good idea to make all the Found Temple spells require the techs that founds their respective religions. The scenario should probably specifically tell you to research Honor too. Yes on the first, that would be a better fix than removing him. As to telling the player to research Honor... I guess so, since it is an early scenario and it is possible players don't know techs found religions.

ChinaBlue

Dec 20, 2008, 03:52 PM

Trading with Kane for his world map makes the game crash.

Saytr

Dec 20, 2008, 05:03 PM

Wouldn't the nest way to solve the choose religion problem, be finding Varn/razing Dirge give you the founding tech?

I've been getting the Kane map CtD as well, as well as map trading with Ethne (don't know about Faeryl/Arturus).

This is my favourite sceanario so far, I really like Deius, as well as the focus on character's personalities, which I wish was more noticable in other storylines.

Scott Alexander

Dec 20, 2008, 06:22 PM

Finished! Nothing worse than the Kane map trade bug.

The scenario was a lot of fun, though the religious victory condition was hard. I wish the map had some gunpowder though. I didn't see any, though it might have been off in a corner somewhere. Gunpowder and the Malakim go well together, and Teutorix is one of my favorite heroes (Actually, when I got Blasting Powder, I was able to build the Shrine of the Champion. I don't know why. I don't think Kane had already built Teutorix, because I don't think he had gunpowder either.)

The Calabim devoted most of their resources to building a single stack of about 60 (!) ritualists. It wasn't a very efficient use of their time.

If you add to this scenario, make a bigger deal out of the Overcouncil. We never really got to hear what went on during the Council meeting or what its significance was.

Thanks for a great scenario.

Nikis-Knight

Dec 20, 2008, 06:35 PM

hmm, I might have neglected gunpoweder. At least your hero shouldn't need it.

Ur_Vile_Wedge

Dec 21, 2008, 03:16 PM

I beat the scenario, as the Malakim (going back to try it with the Calabim next I think) but it isn't unlocking "Wages of Sin" Is this supposed to happen? I mean, Wages of sin doesn't sound like something that would happen after helign the supposedly good Malakim, but if it isn't supposed to lead there, does the campaign arc just end at Into the Desert?

rusty217

Dec 21, 2008, 03:26 PM

Jie

Dec 21, 2008, 10:08 PM

For some reason this scenario keeps crashing for me, I can't seem to load it up any one else? Do I need to do anything different for this one versus what's been working for other scenarios?

xxHammerxx

Dec 22, 2008, 01:43 AM

IMO you should not be able to declare war against the Malakim during the sneaky 75 turns to weaken the Malakim. It just doesnt feel right by outright killing them when you are supposed to be using hidden nationality units. As to winning after Varn is killed instead of all Empy cities, it kinda makes sense b/c I captured timberling actually. So I have an Empy city currently tho im supposed to raze em all . . . and my Esus relig cant get priests so no inquisitions . . . meh. theres always leave it undefended for the barbs, if the all empy cities is actually implemented now.

Also, since Flauros mentioned not using more vamps on the battlefield, I dont think mor vamps should be buildable till after the HN "weakening" turns. Im not actually sure if that is the case or not though, because I didnt research feudalism till afterwards anyways . . . but I dont think it should be allowed.

I guess my main thing is I dont think Calabim should be able to declare war (at least against malakim civs) until Decius "convinces" Flauros to allow direct conflict.

xxHammerxx

Dec 22, 2008, 03:14 AM

Ah, well as it turns out this goal does not include empy cities under Calabim rule. Good to know.

Love

Dec 22, 2008, 04:20 AM

i made peace with flauros and razed the svartalf and khazad cities, because they wouldn't follow the faith!

reverend oats

Dec 22, 2008, 08:21 AM

I converted the Svartalfar to Empyrean!

mimic

Dec 22, 2008, 08:39 AM

Finished as calabim, by the end the malakim had over 40 empryrean priests and didn't use them for anything, whenever I attacked a city they would move to another (don't know where they went after I took their last city though :P)

bonedog

Dec 22, 2008, 01:19 PM

I managed to beat the Malakim version (on Noble), though I spent a long time with just one city because I accidentally bypassed the Mirror of Heaven and sent my explorers all the way east towards the Calabim and Khazad. Oops. :hammer2:

Overall, I think this was a pretty fun scenario. Aiming for a religious victory was kind of a pain, as I got stuck at about 70% influence, and my vicars were taking too long with the Empyrean Inquisition. I ended up just razing a bunch of non-Empy cities... much faster that way! :lol:

Sand lions. Ouch.

Sekerah

Dec 22, 2008, 10:58 PM

Patch F: This scenario seems really bugged. I think something with one of the patches broke it because most other people seem to be able to play it fine.

The first time I loaded the scenario(as Calabim) the game crashed as soon as I closed the story window. The second time the game didn't crash but my cities didn't show up, only a few tiles of culture. When I hit enter to end the turn the game crashed. The third time this happened:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26996118@N06/3130220780/sizes/o/

That city is Prespur, Nubia showed up okay which I'm guessing it why it didn't crash this time. The other two times whatever happened to Nubia happened to both my cities and caused the game to crash. When I look at Prespur in the world builder mode I see that it has 0 pop. Also I didn't start off with any units at all.

Edit: No matter how many times I restart it there is always a crash or the aforementioned bug. However, if I directly load it from the worldbuilder save it works fine.

petcarcharodon

Dec 22, 2008, 11:25 PM

Moofalot

Dec 23, 2008, 12:50 AM

Beat it as Calabim. Make sure to declare on Elohim kind of early to bait them into using their worldspell so you don't have to wait for it to wear off to finish the game after destroying the Malakim.

Jessant

Dec 23, 2008, 11:22 AM

I got the 'You're top score please come and rule us instead' event from the Svartalfar which probably shouldn't happen.

Also playing as Calabim when I went down too the Giant camp/first objective there were 6-7 goblin archers sat in there so I looked around and took the much easier Malakim cities, then when I did get around too the Objective I was already at war with both Malakim and under Sacrifice the Weak so the next chapter didn't follow the story :(. I don't know if actually putting hard blocks on people doing things another way would actually be a good idea or just plain annoying though.

snorfie

Dec 23, 2008, 12:58 PM

with me the game CtDed everytime when i razed the barbarian city (first objective). tried to wait and change the way of attack, did not help.

Nikis-Knight

Dec 23, 2008, 05:24 PM

Please post a crash from the turn before if you have it. There might be a larger issue.

snorfie

Dec 23, 2008, 09:42 PM

how do i post a file?

Mesix

Dec 23, 2008, 10:12 PM

I beat Into the Desert and the followon scenario Wages of Sin was not unlocked as advertised. I will use MagisterCultuum's advice to load the next installment.

Overall I thought it was a fun scenario with a good story. The 80% threshold for a religious victory seems a bit high. It basically takes a domination strategy to get a religious victory.

My experience is precisely the other way around.

I did get around it though by loading the scenario directly from C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Fall from Heaven 2\Assets\XML\Scenarios. You'll find that there are actually two different scenarios Into the Desert Calabim.CivBeyondSwordWBSave and Into the Desert Malakim.CivBeyondSwordWBSave, and that which one is unlocked depends on the choice in the previous scenario. You can however ignore all such prereqs if you load the scenarios up directly from these files. (I've already gotten the trophy for Lord of the Balors, even though it hasn't been unlocked yet.)
This is great advice. It is a way to get around the clunky loading of scenarios from ingame. I really think there should be a scenario loading screen on in the game setup instead of having to load from ingame which seems to cause a lot of CTD problems.

Y T

Dec 23, 2008, 10:45 PM

Postet this in the bugthread too, since it seems to b a general issue:

In "Into the Desert" I trade my fellow Malakim friend Kane Honour to spread it. In the same turn I got a brandnew Ecclesiastic from trading to him & observing the next turn, Kane got one for him aswell!

That works both ways: Kane traded FoL with Ethne & I got a disciple of it too!

Mesix

Dec 24, 2008, 12:22 AM

As a side not...my starting Camel Archer was my best uint. I attached the Commander to him and had him kill a lot early on. By the end of the scenario he had 5 movement, Blitz, Commando, and every other worthwile promotion with about 250 exp. He was tougher than my hero. A nice combo was having the hero cast Pillar of Flame on a stack in an enemy city and then having the Camel Archer kill five guys each turn! There was no need to bombard the defenses at all.

Guale

Dec 24, 2008, 12:42 AM

I did the same thing with my starting camel archer, though he didn't reach 150 exp he did hit around level 13 and was the strongest out of any of my units. Other than that, fun scenario, my first time even trying to do a religious victory which I managed with only spreading it to one Svartalfar city :).

Kilrathi

Dec 24, 2008, 09:24 AM

Dumb question, but when I'm supposed to "spread the Empyrean before the council meeting in 75 turns" what exactly does that mean? I've spread it to all my cities and converted Kane, but that hasn't triggered anything new. Is this condition actually the religious win that people above are talking about (and am I supposed to be able to do that in 75 turns? If so, a new strategy's in order since I've got 20 turns left and Ethne, Faeryl and Arturus aren't having any of my Empyrean thus far)?

Maybe I missed an explanation somewhere, but to me it's not obvious how far/to what extent/where I'm supposed to be spreading the religion -- maybe this could be made more clear in-game (and if someone could let me know via this thread so I can decide whether this game's winnable or if I should just install patch "g" and replay the scenario, that'd be great, too).

Thanks,
-Kilrathi

p.s. off-topic but does anyone else have problems with poison not disappearing even when a poisoned unit heals to 100%?

Mesix

Dec 24, 2008, 09:55 AM

DioBrando

Dec 24, 2008, 07:06 PM

When I got to the northeast corner of the map there were three or four Barbarian Azalkhan the Assassin units. Is this intended as part of the scenario or a bug in the barbarian unit generation? If it is part of the scenario, perhaps it could be incorporated into the story in some way to make more sense.

Only way i could see that happen is if you have used the worldbuilder to give yourself more than one of the same hero. Otherwise it's probably a bug.

Breunor

Dec 24, 2008, 10:54 PM

Kilrathi

Dec 25, 2008, 07:27 PM

I think so, too -- but can someone explain this? I feel like I'm doing fine otherwise but not knowing what it's going to take to "spread" the religion while the turns are counting down has me worried that I may be messing something up...

Guale

Dec 25, 2008, 08:41 PM

I was worried about that on my first playthrough but I can't find any signifigance to it. I belive it is supposed to give you a diplomacy penalty to all of the civs you don't spread it to but it doesn't seem to do so.

iwas8989

Dec 26, 2008, 07:54 PM

Breunor

Dec 26, 2008, 08:54 PM

Hi, I'm at about turn 230 on Emperor difficulty and am having a hard time. Because nobody can produce settlers, a good deal of the map is still completely unpopulated, and I'm having a hard time facing down the waves of high level barbarians that are coming out of the empty areas, particularly the northwest.

I suppose it's partially my own fault for letting the scenario run for so long (I didn't realize you could use inquisition on allied cities until very late, and I fought a pretty bloody war against Kane, whoops), but its becoming very difficult to make any sort of military progress against the Calabim when my supply lines and workers are constantly hit by barb rangers. Any thoughts?

I won on emperor, it can take a while. You didn't say if you are the Malakim or the Calabim (I was the Malakim). If you were the Malakim I can let you know what worked for me. Otherwise, I don't know how helpful this is ....

POTENTIAL SPOILERS

One issues that plagues you is whether to attack the other Malakim player. I managed to get the Elohim and the Malakim to Empyrean; I left them alone. The other Malakim player is a pain, because he has barbarian as a trait. Therefore, as opposed to shielding you from barbarians, he gives them de facto sanctuary.

POTENTIAL SPOILERS

I built a lot of horsemen. You want to get stirrups early to get camel archers -- they are very tough and fast and cover a lot of ground. I used my supplies to build a library and built a stable as my first build (maybe one warrior first). The good news is that with no settlers you don't need escorts and to many workers for now. The horsemen should do until the camel archers come. Obviously, make sure you run God King.

POTENTIAL SPOILERS

Attach Decius to your original Camel archer. He should get a lot of experience points as your designated killer unit. I had him at about 200 by the game end, he would have had more but by then I had other stronger units.

Anyway, although some of the original cavalry will die, I had a bunch of units with 40 - 60 experience points after the barbarian stage and they stayed around killing barbarians.

After building the two cities (and locating them is also a tough decisions. make sure they are close to your starting city, it is more important than being optimal city places. One question is whether to place on in the mountains to the south to get the iron; I didn't, as I decided to concentrate on the camel archers and I wanted other things.) You need some workers to get them developed.

I almost lost when the Calabim came knocking. They actually took one of my three cities; this was bad. My Decius/horse archer attacked to take it back. I had a 73% against Rosier and won. (Wheh!) It is important to try to keep the Vicar alive, he is the openly unit for a while that can cure disease against the diseased corpses.

The middle game for me was a war with the barbarians. I captured 8 barbarian cities and had the largest and strongest empire. Decius is organized, use it to expand SLOWLY against the barbarians and build courthouses. I never switched from God King (although I was mightily tempted) and got resources and territory. Note that health is particularly a problem on this map so pay attention to health resources. I captured some sea cities that were really good as I got some sea health resources. I used the one great engineer I got for Aquae Secullus (although I did build some other wonders like the Guild of Hammers).

I got Empyrean (honor). Make sure you don't found the Empyrean religion with the Vicar you get from Garn -- wait until you found the religion. As I said, I spread it tot he Elohim and the Malakim and they never turned on me.

I then researched priesthood, religious law, build Chalid, and then I basically knew I couldn't lose. Mathematics and engineering are very good, movement bonus is very helpful. I went for Knowledge of the ether, elementalism, and built a water node form my starting city culture. I then used spring on my desert areas.

The key to the game is hold off multiple attacks by the barbs and the potential enemies (most likely the Calabim and the Svaltalfar) with a Strong mobile force and capture as many barbarians cities as possible. You then take some enemy cities and you have a nice empire.

My game went about 300 turns. After defeating the Calabim and the Svaltalfar and largely defeating the dwarves, I cast my world spell (14 cities then with Empyrean), moved Vicar's into every Elohim and Malakim city, and on the word 'go' did an inquisition in every city.

Don't forget your Raiders ability; you can get a lot of money by pillaging and your cavalry is particularly well suited to this task.

I'm sure you can also win by attacking the other Malakim faction. This is a totally different game them I would suspect. In that case, you will find yourself with few friends but the barbarians don't have so many sanctuaries. I suspect the key here is to be able to take your enemies out piecemeal.

Anyway, I hope this helped! As I said, I had a hairy moment in the original Calabim war but once I killed Rosier the win was rather straightforward.

Best wishes,

Breunor

Senethro

Dec 27, 2008, 10:10 AM

Played as the Calabim, Prince, Normal speed, patch G.

I forgot the directions to Dirage and so went Northwest before going around the central lake and approaching the city from the rear. It had so many Goblin archers that I gave up and went to steal Kane's closest city for its copper resource. With 8 bronze Moroi I felt more confident of victory and returned to find Varn had nearly taken the city himself. After razing Dirage I turtled as Flauros requested, spreading CoE to Khazad and Svart using a CoE Hawk. When the 75 turns were up I had 7 cities and iron Vampires and completed the scenario in 13 turns with little resistance.

The map looked to be most built by hand. It was very nice, so thanks for going to the effort whoever it was. The Shadow/Death nodes in the north west were a little mystifying though. Looking forward to the next in this series.

Kenjister

Dec 27, 2008, 12:47 PM

Long time lurker here, finally got around to signing in!
I played as the Malakim one Prince and found this to be a extremely well done scenario. The map especially contributed to the feel of the whole thing. I found the low production created a challenging early game. I was barely saved from a few Calabim and Svaltalfar invasions by a Radiant Guard that had just been built in time, stopping the invaders until my Decius/Camel Archer came to wipe them out. Some of the greatest fun I've had in a while!

The only thing that seems a bit off is the AV and Rosier. The AV is fine, but it allows Rosier before he's supposed to have completely fallen so maybe it should be blocked?
Either way, great scenario and I can't wait until for the next two installments!

Smakemupagus

Dec 27, 2008, 09:59 PM

I thought this scenario was well put together, and a nice tutorial for religious victory.

Chip56

Dec 28, 2008, 05:35 AM

Another good way to convert elohim to empyrian:
Just gift them honor. Thats a lot faster than sending units down there.
Also you could upgrade early build lightbringer to disciples of empyrian for 5 gold.

snorfie

Dec 28, 2008, 07:05 AM

Please post a crash from the turn before if you have it. There might be a larger issue.

ok, found it

Nikis-Knight

Dec 28, 2008, 10:35 AM

It had so many Goblin archers that I gave up and went to steal Kane's closest city for its copper resourceIt could be that you took a long time and they spawned from the forts, but one problem is that when starting the scenario to edit it, it will sometimes spawn more archers on each fort, so after a few edits it can get silly if I forget to delete extras. And then they get moved to barb cities since they are city defenders.
We'll see if that is the case.

spreading CoE to Khazad and Svart using a CoE Hawk:lol:

Nikis-Knight

Dec 28, 2008, 10:53 AM

p.s. off-topic but does anyone else have problems with poison not disappearing even when a poisoned unit heals to 100%?It takes one extra turn of waiting at full strength for poison to be removed.

Dumb question, but when I'm supposed to "spread the Empyrean before the council meeting in 75 turns" what exactly does that mean? I've Maybe it's not clear, you're supposed to spread it to the other Malakim civ at this time. After 75 turns the plan was for those Malakim cities that you spread it to to be gifted to your control, and the others to declare war on you.
I guess obviously that the goal isn't clear and the reward isn't occuring anyway.
I'm glad to hear it is good anyway, though maybe we can get that working as designed.

Breunor

Dec 28, 2008, 12:04 PM

It takes one extra turn of waiting at full strength for poison to be removed.

Maybe it's not clear, you're supposed to spread it to the other Malakim civ at this time. After 75 turns the plan was for those Malakim cities that you spread it to to be gifted to your control, and the others to declare war on you.
I guess obviously that the goal isn't clear and the reward isn't occuring anyway.
I'm glad to hear it is good anyway, though maybe we can get that working as designed.

Ahh, thanks for the explanation.

Ok, I hope you don't mind if I give you my own subjective opinion coming from exactly one game only meaning I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but, if you don't mind, here goes anyway!

I do think you should make the message clear that you should spread the Empyrean religion to Kane's cities. Otherwise, Kane is not the greatest ally in the world.

I think the scenario should either:

a. Gift Kane's converted cities to Decius as originally intended. This result would be the correct 'feel' for the scenario. It would also make it CONSIDERABLY easier.

b. Leave it the way it is, a much harder scenario; now you have to decide if you want to conquer Kane or not and he is a pain in the arse; however, he likes you and few others do. In this case, you may even want to remove the objective and the 75 turns. It may be worthwhile converting Civ's to your religion as in any Civ IV of FfH game, but if it does no special benefit than the normal diplomacy, it probably shouldn't be highlighted.

As an example here, I spent far more energy converting cities than I would have had I known that there was no reward beyond that in any game Civ IV game.

I'm probably favoring 'a' from a 'scenario' standpoint, I think its kind of cool.

However, I have to admit, I like the scenario as is for a fairly tough challenge! Indeed, I LOVED the scenario when I played it -- it was exactly what I would want in a scenario; as a player, I was faced with a situation that does not occur in a standard Epic game which causes a different set of strategies to work. It was tense most of the way and fun.

Either way you go, it is great scenario and my kudos to the designers.

Best wishes,

Breunor

westamastaflash

Dec 29, 2008, 09:38 AM

The Calabim Objective is to "De-story" all Empryean cities. I suppose once they are razed, they are no longer part of the story...

westamastaflash

Dec 29, 2008, 11:30 AM

I razed all the Empryean cities but I'm not getting a game end. Empryean has 0% influence now. Do I have to kill all of My Vassal Kane's cities too??

Edit - Never mind. Found a dwarf city with empryean.

cyther

Dec 30, 2008, 03:23 PM

I enjoyed this scenario and am looking to the next two.

bluedevil99

Dec 30, 2008, 03:52 PM

Malakim, Emperor level. Really enjoyed this scenario. I'll post my thoughts on balance and strategy below.

Balance (SPOILERS)
The other Malakim player ended up really powerful. Starting him with six cities seems a little excessive; I'd maybe start him with five and the Khazad and Elohim with four each. This adds challenge since the Dwarves end up founding RoK and end up squarely in the path to religious victory. I didn't like that Flauros started with only two cities. I understand taking a barb city is an objective in the Calabim version of the scenario, but the AI isn't smart enough to take barb cities and as it was Flauros was really bottled up.

I noticed shortly after finding Varn, I could have acquired a 4th city in trade with the other Malakim player (Liberate). I didn't do this quickly enough and a few turns later the option was gone. Is this intentional?

Strategy (SPOILERS)

Thankfully I noticed the sand lions right away and used my camel archer to deal with them. Settled my 2 additional cities along the river both east of Golden Leane and spammed cottages. Used supplies to build a Library; rushed libraries in the other 2 cities and the GL in the capital. Used world spell early for the 3 free Vicars and built a 4th. Gave them mobility and had them kill barbs until they hit level 6. Rushed Honor and Religious Law for Chalid, and with the GL was able to get Theocracy pretty early. Used Chalid and the 4 Luridus units to walk over Khazad and Calabim, and won religious victory shortly thereafter.

Really the high priests were overkill; I could pretty easily have done the job with Chalid and a stack of Camel archers. But I don't play Empyrean a lot so it was fun. I took a couple of barb cities for resources which was a big help. The AI doesn't let barb cities grow to size 2 before taking them, and nobody can build settlers, so it's possible to get a pretty good number of cities.

This map is set up pretty well for religious victory (good thing, heh). I wouldn't advise going to war with the other Malakim player or Elohim as they're easy to convert (though obviously getting them converted ASAP is a priority). As long as you know to use Vicars with the Inquisition promotion to clear out rival religions in cities, it's pretty easy. I really only ended up having to deal with the Dwarves, who founded RoK, and Flauros, who founded AV.

[to_xp]Gekko

Dec 30, 2008, 05:40 PM

still playing through the scenario, something odd happened: I've captured some animals ( mostly lions ) with the starting hunter. I'm pretty sure that the first 2 lions I captured didn't have HN.

westamastaflash

Dec 31, 2008, 03:35 PM

The Calabim version breaks if you don't raze the hill giant city... shouldn't you *have* to raze it??

[to_xp]Gekko

Jan 01, 2009, 07:50 PM

I've just finished the Malakim version of the scenario, lots of fun :)

edit: the text that appears when you complete the religious victory says "Ethene" instead of "Ethne" ( the White )

phoulishwan

Jan 01, 2009, 08:37 PM

I enjoyed this map quite a bit, played Monarch and waited it out a bit before going to pay Varn a visit in the Mirror, used the supplies for an archery range considering my only archer got owned by the starting sand lions along with my hunter, at least until I'd gotten a bunch archers up in my capital to keep me safe from barbs and could freely explore the lay of the land. If I'd known it was only those few sand lions to start I would have played it much differently!

When I finally payed Varn a visit, I had a few remaining turns before founding the Empyrean. I settled my 2 settlers one for the iron in the south and one for the 2 marbles east. I wasn't too surprised when Flauros declared on me after visiting Varn so I scouted her out with my camel archer who was already pretty well leveled up, found her secondary city was ill guarded so I captured it and gave it to Kane. I then went and pillaged the crap out her capital, she never really recovered from the blow as the Svarts had declared on her in her weak state and kept up a steady if unsuccesful pressure. I founded Empyrean in my Capital with the Vicar, before completing research and needing the happiness blew my world spell for the 3 Vicars, they found temples in my two outlying cities for the culture instead of having to build obelisks and I kept one to coddle and gain xp. I also set out to nab a prophet for the Empy Wonder.

About 5 turns later I completed teching Empyrean and started pumping out empyrean disciples to convert the faithless, I sent the first one down to Ethne hoping for to save some building time with natural spread out her way and the next 3 up to Faeryl to take advantage of our current ongoing campaign against the Vampires boosting our diplo enough for open borders. After her 3 cities were turned Empyrean she converted on her own! I soon realized the real challenge would be getting an open borders agreement with Arturus who had founded RoK in the meantime, Somnium was now in play for improved relations, I lost the 1st game much to my dismay, won the second 80ish turns later...I played this map very diplomatically, with only 3 cities.

Eventually the Svarts conceded their war against Flauros and this gave her an opportunity to grab her original city back from Kane, fortunately for me, I'd already spread Empyrean to it, so she adopted it all on her own and came round to my block, rather rapidly. My diplomatic relations against Arturus were horrible because of our religious differences. I ended up dropping out of Empyrean religion and eventually won him him over enough for open borders via a few Masterful Somnium games, I was disappointed I couldn't Inquisition RoK from his cities after obtaining an open borders agreement and figured I'd have to make him convert first, which I also unfortunately found out I couldn't do without being Empyrean myself. So I spread Empyrean to all his cities and won a religious victory before I wanted to!

I had to figure out how to use Inquisition though, so I decided to spend a few more turns playing after the victory to see how to get it to work, once I converted back to Empyrean he didn't like me much again certainly not enough to convert despite all his cities having Empyrean and only a 2 of his 4 cities having RoK. I decided to declare on Flauros to get a mutual war bonus with him at which point he became willing to adopt Empyrean for pretty much everything I had over him. Then I could purge RoK from his cities and complete the game with 100% Empyrean following and no other religions in play!

[to_xp]Gekko

Jan 02, 2009, 07:30 AM

a couple oddities I've noticed while playing this scenario:

1) east from your starting locations as the malakim there's a couple marble resources, with an oasis right next to it and another one ( with a pasture ) slightly south. workers are unable to build anything on the oasis tile that has no improvement, and they can't even get rid of the pasture on the other one. even if you pillage the pasture they can not improve it. same thing happens with a camp+oasis tile west of there.

2) if you build a cottage on a desert+scrubs tile, scrubs remain. but if you have a hill/desert+scrubs and build a mine there, scrubs get chopped.

Jabie

Jan 07, 2009, 11:05 AM

Patch M - as Malakim - got a CtD twice on the occasion when i got lucky and the scenario loaded up OK I had no city or units(!) and yet my citizens(?) want to join the Elohim.

Jabie

Jan 07, 2009, 11:32 AM

Regression to patch L seems to fix the scenario issue. Will repatch up to M and see if problem is consistent or localised.

Jabie

Jan 07, 2009, 11:48 AM

Repatched to M and got CtD.

Jabie

Jan 09, 2009, 05:47 AM

Patch N fixes this bug.

Keyeth

Jan 18, 2009, 12:50 PM

I am also crashing when attempting to raze the barbarian city. Attached the save file for the turn of the crash. Tried taking it with several different units in all sorts of combinations with/without Decius

Jabie

Jan 19, 2009, 06:57 AM

Completed this scenario as Malakim. Here's my feedback:

1. I'd drop the number of Sand Lions at the start of the scenario to one and/or give a warning about them in the flavour text.

2. I somehow managed to miss the Mirror completely and didn't find it until quite some time into the game. (My own fault I skipped the key word "East" in the flavour text) During my travels I sprung a zealot from a dungeon and got him all the way back to my capital before I received the found Empyrean quest. I think this Dungeon Event needs to be removed from this scenario.

3. Because I missed the Mirror for quite a while the Elohim founded Runes of Kilmorph! By the end of the game, I got my modifier with them up in the +20 to +30 range, spread Empyrean in their lands, built temples for them and they still refused to switch religion through diplomacy.

4. You can't build Ecclesiast units to spread your religion til you found the Order tech. The red quest text ought to reflect this and state: "Research Order and Spread Empyrean in 75 turns"

5. Not a scenario (or even an FfH) issue but two general BtS issues:
* I missed the trade Territory Maps feature in Civ 3.
* I would love to chose what I pillaged. Specifically I wanted my mounted raiders to pillage the roads to prevent any kind of counterattack or reinforcement, but I was forever pillaging towns and mines instead.

Kenjister

Jan 21, 2009, 05:49 PM

2. I somehow managed to miss the Mirror completely and didn't find it until quite some time into the game. (My own fault I skipped the key word "East" in the flavour text) During my travels I sprung a zealot from a dungeon and got him all the way back to my capital before I received the found Empyrean quest. I think this Dungeon Event needs to be removed from this scenario.

4. You can't build Ecclesiast units to spread your religion til you found the Order tech. The red quest text ought to reflect this and state: "Research Order and Spread Empyrean in 75 turns"

I did the first thing too, I didn't remeber the direction too carefully and guessed West. Took a loooong time to find the mirror :lol:

As for the Order needed to build Ecclesiatics, that's a bug. I didn't notice it when I played though... I guess it got broken in a patch?

Yashkaf

Jan 22, 2009, 05:53 AM

Calabim, Immortal, patch L.

My, my, what an annoying dissapointment. Details below.

1. I started the game focusing mainly on cottaging around Prespur and Nubia, with no military building whatsoever. I slowly hunted up an animal army with the two hunters, other than that my first vampire (renamed: "Beny") attached Decius and walked around the map wiping everyone out. It took me quite a while to find Dirage, by that time my forces consisted of two hasting adepts, two promoted hunters, a war elephant (Dumbo) and a 110xp Beny.

2. Took out Dirage with Dumbo and Beny as I was halfway through researching the AV founding tech. Since the point of the scenario is CoE, that was just hundreds of wasted beakers. There really should be a hint that you shouldn't found religions, like Flauros telling you "Focus on your strength, general. The right faith will show itself in good time."

3. "Weaken for 75 turns"?! Could you be any more cryptic? I got the point that I should harrass Kane and Varn with HN units, so I presumed war is not an option. Unfortunately, I wasn't close to being able to build any, so I started researching deception and bowyers to get Nightwatches, something that would of taken me about 74 of the 75 turns. Pissed off as I am already about wasting the beakers for AV, I get another surprise: Kane declares on me with a stack of 4 warriors and 2 lightbringers next to the newly built Acaia. I gift Alteration to Faeryl and Arthurus to declare on Kane as well (what do the Khazad need it for??) Within two turns, his stack is dust (I even upgraded a bear to CR3 on the poor buggers). Within 20 turns Kane capitulates with one city left. Faeryl has a big stack by now next to Varn, so the three of us declare on Varn and wipe him out within another 10 turns.

4. Aftermath: I still have 25 turns of weakening the Malakim who are down to one vassal city out of two empires. I wasted half my beakers on AV and Bowyers, completing neither. I gifted Bourne to Thorne and Faeryl got another of Varn's cities, both with Empy. I also control the Empyrean Timberling, and Ethne got Empy in Glens.

5. I sit around picking my nose for 25 turns waiting for the next objective.

6. I get the new goal, declare on Ethne and sit around picking my nose for 30 turns while she Sanctuaries.

7. At the end of the 30 turns I declare war on everybody and conquer the three cities with Empy within 1(!) turn with stacks of CR3 vampires.

Summary:
I understand the Decius line was written by Nikis-Knight, and the differences tell. While the storytelling is excellent (minus the typos here and there), the playability is pretty lousy. I played the scenario as close as possible to what the author intended I do and ended up:

1. Becoming easy tech leader after about 100 turns despite playing on Immortal and expecting a challenge.

2. Having the unit I started out with (the vampire) get to 160 xp despite never fighting under 97% odds, despite playing on Immortal and expecting a challenge.

3. Wasting hundreds of beakers on techs I never completed because of the objectives.

4. Having the civ I'm supposed to sneakily weaken declare war on me and get wiped out.

5. Having the other civ I'm supposed to sneakily weaken get wiped out.

6. Running out of nostrils to pick after 55 turns of SHIFT+ENTERING (except for auto-building vampires in every city).

7. Winning the game in one turn, having Decius run off to the other side of the world and discovering that "Wages of Sin" isn't out yet as of patch Q.

I hope I don't sound bitter, the scenario is actually quite good and interesting. However, if you put it contrast with the others (the Falamar line, Splintered Court..) it's quite dissapointing and pretty annoying. Like chasing a Hill Giant through a desert.

I hope I get better wages for my sins,

Yashkaf.

mondits

Jan 22, 2009, 06:11 PM

Played this as Decius and it was the first time I play with vampires and I thought the scenario was pretty good but once I got a stack of Morois and couple feasting vampires going, it was pretty much conquest (destroy all Empyrean cities) which in my case was everyone. Go figure that out. The Counci is pretty intersting but I thought I was supposed to have hidden nationality assassins? I did not. How do you get them? Can you ever?

MagisterCultuum

Jan 22, 2009, 07:53 PM

Assassins with the Council of Esus religion (there is a 20% chance that a unit will adopt each religion present in the city that built it) have access to the Mask spell, which grants HN.

Nikis-Knight

Jan 22, 2009, 08:11 PM

@Yashkaf; I can see why the Elohim world spell would be annoying, I'm sorry I had forgotten that. Maybe they can be denied it for one scenario? I'll ask.

I think the plan is to put in some penalty for out-right declaring war prior to the event where Decius insists on it, such as having your vampires abandon you if you disobey. What I envisioned at this point was the player spreading the Council of Esus and using HN units to pick off Varn's missionaries & workers before they could spread religion to Kane; I can see how this might prove tedious after 75 turns; do you have a better idea for a trigger?

The Calabim version breaks if you don't raze the hill giant city... shouldn't you *have* to raze it??Yes, I'll see if that's possible.

Nikis-Knight

Jan 22, 2009, 08:16 PM

4. You can't build Ecclesiast units to spread your religion til you found the Order tech. The red quest text ought to reflect this and state: "Research Order and Spread Empyrean in 75 turns"Please tell me you meant that you needed the Empyrean tech honor, not the Orders from Heaven tech?

3. Because I missed the Mirror for quite a while the Elohim founded Runes of Kilmorph! By the end of the game, I got my modifier with them up in the +20 to +30 range, spread Empyrean in their lands, built temples for them and they still refused to switch religion through diplomacy.Then there's war.

Jabie

Jan 23, 2009, 06:49 AM

Please tell me you meant that you needed the Empyrean tech honor, not the Orders from Heaven tech?

Mae Culpa. I should have written Honour, not Orders from Heavens, but the problem still remains. The tech requirement either needs to be spelt out, unrestricted for the purposes of building disciple units you should receive the tech and get on with the business in hand. My personal preference is for free tech, as it makes sense in story terms.

Also, although I didn't try it, cos I don't have time, the game asks for a Religious Victory. What happens if you found some other religion and win a Religious Victory as, say AV or OO? Maybe the other religions could be turned off for the Malakim in this scenario and the other Civs could be prevented from researching Honour until you have it (to prevent the unlikely chance that they found Empyrean by accident)

Love

Jan 23, 2009, 08:33 AM

Dirage had 5 barbarian archers, plus that hill giant which makes it impassable to raze

Yashkaf

Jan 23, 2009, 12:53 PM

Nikis-Knight, you're right. It would be more useful if I came up with suggestions instead of just being annoyed, so I'll try my best:

Early Game

I started focusing on economy because of the way the scenario felt: I have two cities easily defended by archers, both in prime locations for economy with a gold mine and beautiful riverside locations for cottages. The objective of raizing a barb city just doesn't seem that urgent, especially since I have only one good unit and it takes a while to level up. My only neighbor is Kane, who is very weak, slow teching and poses no threat whatsoever. I don't focus on military or expansion because I face no threats and have no settlers. If the point is to bang out a couple of moroi and rush Dirage, I would change the gold mine to copper and make the cities more production oriented, and I would add the barbarians as a significant threat: probably a couple of auto-razing barbarian cities on the way to Dirage that would send warriors harrassing you through Kane's lands. That would present more of a challenge, and give a point to the whole exercise: what does Flauros care about a couple of drunk hill giants wandering around the desert miles from his cities? If you managed to fight through the barbs on the way and get Dirage, an event could happen that would eliminate the other barbs as a threat, either by reducing their aggresiveness or just taking them off the map.

Tech Lead

Again, that could be solved by making you focus on early military, and improving the starting locations of the Khazad and Svarts economically (toss'em a couple of gold mines/plantations sites).

The Big Weakening

First of all, I assume the point is to get at Varn, not Kane? I would make Kane agnostic, which would leave him as a side player in the show. It would discourage religion spreading to his cities and you can also change the final objective to not include Kane's cities, as well as your own.

The first thing you need to do is make the objective clear, to make people understand that they should harrass Varn for 75 turns without declaring. How about a defensive pact between Varn, Ethne, Kane and Arthurus for 75 turns? That would make a player think twice about just wiping them off the map one by one.

The second thing is to give the player the tools to do so. I would simply eliminate all religions but RoK for the Khazad, Empy and CoE from the game. What's the point of getting AV and fighting Ethne's confessors in a Coe vs. Empy plotline? Also, to have the ability to harrass properly, a plyer should either be given Deception+Bowyers or just spawn a nightwatch every 7-8 turns in Prespur. Researching both takes around 75 turns, and waiting for every fifth assassin to be HN is pointless.

If the player focused the early game on breaking through the barbs to get Dirage, this should a time of building up the economy and teching, which is why a free (but slow) supply of nightwatchmen would be my preferred solution.

Beakers Wasted, Unclear Objectives

Again, let Flauros explain. You don't to spell everything out for the players, but they need to get the idea. I would give some lines along: "Don't worry about religions, friend, in the desert the strength of your sword arm is more important than that the strength of your faith. The right path will show itself in due time." After Dirage is smokin', perhaps: "Now isn't the time to go after the Malakim directly, the other peoples here won't like that. However, remember that the friends of the Dark Council have other means at their disposal, of a more clandestine nature. Don't worry though, general, I know you thirst for war. The time for resolution by arms will come eventually, as it must."

Wow, I used "clandestine" in a sentence. I didn't even know I knew it.

Endspiel, unit balance

Really, vampires against archers and axemen is a bloody slaughter. What's the point of fighting the Empyrean if there's nary a radiant guard to be seen? I would eliminate the first vampire you get as he's easy to turn into a monster and he's twice as strong as any other unit in any point in time. The first fight should be with stacks of moroi, hunters and captured animals (though really, elephants in the desert?) against hill giants and archers. Why is Decius . .. .. .. .. .ing about lousy troops if he gets a vampire while others have warriors? The end game should be about vampires versus Empy units. Either give tha AIs Honor through an event or just gift them some Empy units when the objective hits. Also, while subverting Faeryl to your cause is easy and logical, I see no reason why Ethne should be stomped by hordes of Dwarven Axemen. Not to be too restrictive, giving the Khazad a +8 to relations with the good guys (like Varn has -11 with you) would at least make them less likely to jump in the evil boat.

All in all, the scenarion has a geat story, but it doesn't feel that way. You should get the feeling of starting out as lonely evil guys in a hostile environment, then sneaky plotters, and then a religious war. To me the scenario was like the war in Iraq, happily leading a coalition of guys from around the world on a military exercise to exterminate some backwards fools living in the desert having their way with camels.

Love

Jan 23, 2009, 01:18 PM

Its pretty easy to spread CoE to all kanes and ethnes cities, just if you have open borders send declared nationality nightwatch along with vampire and haste them to it.

Keyeth

Jan 23, 2009, 04:30 PM

Its pretty easy to spread CoE to all kanes and ethnes cities, just if you have open borders send declared nationality nightwatch along with vampire and haste them to it.

I don't think he's talking about the open borders situation, in which case you could just drop a couple of 'Hawks of Esus' on people, instead of wasting all that time running around with nightwatch and vampires. He's talking about situations in which you spread the religion in a recondite way.

Nikis-Knight

Jan 23, 2009, 07:42 PM

Now isn't the time to go after the Malakim directly, the other peoples here won't like that. However, remember that the friends of the Dark Council have other means at their disposal, of a more clandestine nature. Don't worry though, general, I know you thirst for war. The time for resolution by arms will come eventually, as it must." To be fair, that's what I was going for with this:
...I have shared our secret with you, Decius, but wish it to remain that. If we take ourselves into the battlefield, we will be hunted down by all the nations. Better to stay on the edges of the civilized world. Lugus has other enemies that may aid us, however, without asking questions. Let us encourage the Council of Esus among our lands, and train men who can strike without revealing their masters. Use them to eliminate the disciples of Lugus, and the power I wield may be yours

But I didn't have anything along the lines of: "Don't worry about religions, friend, in the desert the strength of your sword arm is more important than that the strength of your faith. The right path will show itself in due time." I was trying to leave these things open for the player to decide, but you are right that there are some options that are clearly less helpful and advice regarding tech options, when I have a particular strategy in mind, is vital. I will request an event like the following to trigger on turn 2 or something:
An obese, pale man, carried on a litter by a slaves watches Decius training his units for the assault on Dirage. Decius walks over after organizing a scout patrol. "I don't suppose you've come to enlist," he says. The man has the clear signs of Calabim aristocracy, but Decius takes a measure of satisfaction from refusing to acknowledge it.
"I am the governor of this city. Flauros decrees that I must cooperate with you, find out what you need to research for your task. It pleases him to give this authority to such as yourself, for reasons I couldn't grasp."
Decius thought for a moment. "If I am successful, I will have the cusp of an empire. Fuedalism would be useful for this, though..." He glanced up at the governor, realizing he wanted more than to build an empire for lazy fools like these. Deception. Poison. Tools like these could help him in a conflict with his benefactor or other foes to come. Religion was a useful tool for controling a nation, but he decided it would be a poor idea to invite such foreign influence and invite the eye of meddling goods.

The first thing you need to do is make the objective clear, to make people understand that they should harrass Varn for 75 turns without declaring. How about a defensive pact between Varn, Ethne, Kane and Arthurus for 75 turns? That would make a player think twice about just wiping them off the map one by one.That's an excellent idea.

I would eliminate the first vampire you get as he's easy to turn into a monster and he's twice as strong as any other unit in any point in time. I wanted to make sure the player got to use the distinct/fun Calabim units, and it is comprable to Malakim getting a camel archer... until you feast with it, I guess. Perhaps a Moroi with the vampire promotion? That would also fit the story better, as the aristocrats don't favor Decius until he proves himself.

Love

Jan 24, 2009, 12:56 AM

In my game varn had defensive pact with Ethne and kane, they was pleased to me even but they were at war with me :D

MagisterCultuum

Jan 24, 2009, 01:15 AM

In my last game I got a weird bug that I think I had gotten once or twice in this scenario right after it was first released. I started up a Calabim game directly from the file (not using the scenario screen), and found that I started with no cities or units, only a few tiles of territory. I did not get this problem when I started over.

Nikis-Knight

Jan 24, 2009, 09:28 AM

That sounds like the bug due to random resoures placed under a city, but this doesn't use random resources and that bug was fixed! :huh:

Yashkaf

Jan 24, 2009, 06:09 PM

Decius thought for a moment. "If I am successful, I will have the cusp of an empire. Fuedalism would be useful for this, though..." He glanced up at the governor, realizing he wanted more than to build an empire for lazy fools like these. Deception. Poison. Tools like these could help him in a conflict with his benefactor or other foes to come. Religion was a useful tool for controling a nation, but he decided it would be a poor idea to invite such foreign influence and invite the eye of meddling goods.

Just to remark, I think that spelling out the techs by name (Feudalism, Deception..) doesn't seem quite in good taste. Decius doesn't know he's in a PC game. If a player realizes he plays with a vampire civ but doesn't know which tech gets them, he needs a couple of hours on the can with Xienwolf's manual printed out more than a line of text to help him. Hey, we've all been new to this. Also, saying things like "he decided that.." makes it seem final, and not a mere suggestion. I switched from AV because I wanted to roleplay into the story. If a dude likes flamethrowers (sorry, "ritualists") he should be able to enjoy the scenario too.

With that said, I'll leave the rest of the writing to the actual writer among us and wait patiently in my corner for "Wages of Sin" to come out.

Nikis-Knight

Jan 24, 2009, 06:17 PM

Decius doesn't know he's in a PC gameI think it makes sense that poisons and deception are concepts in the world of Erebus as well as names of game technology, though, especially assuming that someone else has already discovered these conceptually and you just need to figure out the applications.

Kenjister

Jan 26, 2009, 11:55 PM

It does make sense, though it seems odd that the characters refer to them that way (as by the tech name). Doesn't seem like they would actually talk that way. Maybe you could have the characters speak more in naturally, but at the end have an out of character bit that clarifies everything just in case.
Just seems wrong that Confessor Wallon told me to research something. Otherwise I'm loving the storyline! It would be nice if you could expand the text more. Not that it's like any more work right? :mischief:

Nikis-Knight

Jan 27, 2009, 12:02 AM

Not that it's like any more work right? Not compared to the next one, with more leaders to do begining and endings for, blurbs when/if the old bannor oath-takers return, and a large side story that will force the lore forum to rewrite one tiny detail of a minor character's story.

Kenjister

Jan 27, 2009, 12:30 AM

Not compared to the next one, with more leaders to do begining and endings for, blurbs when/if the old bannor oath-takers return, and a large side story that will force the lore forum to rewrite one tiny detail of a minor character's story.

:drool:
Dang, can you make the wait any more harder? It's killing me!
The only cure is... to play more FfH. Back I go.

MagisterCultuum

Jan 29, 2009, 11:54 PM

This and all of the other Decius scenarios have this code in them:

def onUnitKilled(self, pUnit, iAttacker):
if gc.getGame().isOption(GameOptionTypes.GAMEOPTION_W B_INTO_THE_DESERT):
if pUnit.isHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROM OTION_GREAT_COMMANDER')):
iDecius = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_DECIUS')
if pUnit.getScenarioCounter() == iDecius:
pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(pUnit.getOwner())
pCity = pPlayer.getCapitalCity()
if not pCity.isNone():
pPlayer.initUnit(iDecius, pCity.getX(), pCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.UNITAI_ATTACK, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH) which gives you a new Decius unit if you lose the unit you had him attached to. I think that this is overpowered when combined with an Immortal unit (especially Losha), as the unit will keep the promotion but still create a new Decius, letting you get a lot of free great commanders.

Go Boks

Feb 01, 2009, 01:32 AM

Hey NK,

I liked the map, but the scenario really didn't do it for me. I've read the whole thread and it sounds like several features aren't working yet anyway. However, even when they are, it still seems like there is some potential you still won't be using.

As the Malakim, the 75 turns thing seemed asinine. Spread Empyrean for 75 turns. Then spread it some more. I understand that you want to add a flip on Kane cities with Empyrean and an ensuing civil war with whatever he has left, but even then, 75 turns is a LONG time. If you want to keep this part of the scenario as intended, I would only give Decius 1 settler and a third of the turns, so that a challenging civil war happens unless you really focus on spreading Empyrean like Varn asks you too.

However, I was looking forward to an Overcouncil meeting at the end of the 75 turns, which never happened. Maybe you should ditch the flip idea and make the challenge to get everyone else to convert to Empyrean in 75 turns? Whomever does not adopt it as a state religion by the time the 75 turns are up automatically adopts CoE, setting up a battle royale with the Calabim and their Undercouncil allies. However, this should be challenging, and the Calabim should be aggresively trying to spread CoE on their own, and actively hunting your disciple units with their HN units.

Also, I don't think the Calabim should declare on you as soon as the 75 turn counter starts, considering the Calabim version of this scenario. They should be trying to be peaceful with everybody but undermining the Empyrean with HN units and spreading CoE.

Also, I thought that evil mana node valley up in the NW was cool too. Maybe you should add an interim quest up in that area for both sides? As the Malakim, maybe the first Overcouncil meeting sends you there to wipe out a den of HN vampires or something similar. As the Calabim, if you can defend them, you gain a powerful ally in some form (hero unit, new allied civ, whatever). It would be especially cool if it involved Rosier in some way (maybe this valley of evil is where he finally falls or some such). When you get back from that quest, the war with the Undercouncil begins.

Anyway, nice work on the scenario as is. Almost got the GM fired up, but couldn't find a god damned wolf of all things!

TheGreatSteve

Feb 01, 2009, 02:18 PM

As the Malakim, I'd suggest substantially increasing the tech level of the other civilizations. Once you pick up Honour tech trading makes everything too easy. Give Ethne/Faeryl/Kane/Khazad a few basic techs to make em like you. Trade them the next set in exchange for war with Flauros. Then give Ethne and Kane Honour and watch them spread it themselves, give it to the Khazad as well to get them on the Council. With your many gifts, your mutual struggle against Flauros, everyone loves you and even Faeryl will soon open borders and let the Empy in.

In the scenarios generosity like that has no downside. In the regular game there's no way I'd give potential competitiors as much help as I did here, but in a scenario there's no reason not to.

Diamondeye

Feb 02, 2009, 09:02 AM

I have no idea whether it has been mentioned already, but:

(Patch Q): Faeryl Viconia can found Veil. Then, she can build Rosier the Fallen... Doesn't seem to fit with the storyline (don't know, haven't completed this yet), since I/someone can kill Rosier now (and he is a wicked demon guy)...

loki1232

Feb 02, 2009, 09:28 AM

Got a python error after burning dirage:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=202335&stc=1&d=1233588533

Nikis-Knight

Feb 05, 2009, 10:50 PM

Hey NK,

I liked the map, but the scenario really didn't do it for me. I've read the whole thread and it sounds like several features aren't working yet anyway. However, even when they are, it still seems like there is some potential you still won't be using.Thanks for the feedback, I'll consider this when I get around to looking at this again, (probably in a couple of weeks.)
This and all of the other Decius scenarios have this code in them:Thanks, that could especially screw up the next one.
As the Malakim, I'd suggest substantially increasing the tech level of the other civilizations...Good point.

Nanocyborgasm

Feb 11, 2009, 09:28 PM

Exactly what has to be 80% to be considered a religious victory for the Council of the Empyrean? Is it 80% of cities? What if a city has more than one religion? I had to abandon one game where Flauros converted to the Empyrean but hated me too much to open borders, so only 1 of his cities was Empyrean. To top it off, he was a vassal of my ally, Ethne, so I couldn't just conquer him. I also have to wonder if building another shrine (Tablets of Bambur) gives more weight to that religion.

MagisterCultuum

Feb 11, 2009, 09:32 PM

It is 80% of the world population following your religion, under the assumption that the population of every city is equally divided among followers of each religion present there.

Love

Feb 12, 2009, 05:27 AM

raising heathen cities with chalid is the best thing to do about it.

cIV_khanh93

Feb 18, 2009, 07:22 PM

I'm not upposed to be able to build settlers am i?

Sid_Unbreakable

Feb 18, 2009, 07:43 PM

raising heathen cities with chalid is the best thing to do about it.

:lol: Death to the heathen. (I suppose that the Priest's inquisitional abilities would also be helpful, never bothered to do it myself I prefer the direct approach ^^)

Maniac

Feb 25, 2009, 01:21 PM

Well, that was fun! (Malakim) Compare to the Momus scenario: because of the overwhelming Infernal power, you mostly just sit/defend and wait, gradually building up a stack of doom full of mages, and once you get it, it's long boring march to victory with no one to oppose you.

Here instead you have some real choices: should I spend my limited resources on capturing animals, exploring dungeons & goodie huts, defending against barbarians or Calabim/Svartalfar attacks, spread my religion, capture barbarian cities or pillage Calabim/Svartalfar territory? Once you get Chalid it's an instawin of course, but by that time eventual victory is assured anyway, so it shortens the boring endgame. I've actually played this game to the end, someone which I very rarely (never?) do.

Oh, and you're an awesome map creator! :goodjob:

Iainuki

Feb 27, 2009, 11:56 AM

I got an eccelesiastic from a dungeon before razing Dirage. I didn't *actually* break the scenario, but if I'd founded the religion, what would have happened?

Broken Hawk

Mar 05, 2009, 02:51 PM

I spread the Empyrean religion for 75 turns. Then Varn has Deicus spread it more for a Religious Victory? That's it? Nothing else happens between quests? Did I miss something?

Love the Sand Lions.

Broken Hawk

Mar 12, 2009, 02:25 PM

Talia Gosam (Great Prophet) is born in one of the Svartalfar cities. That seems odd given the lore of the scenario.

Broken Hawk

Mar 13, 2009, 07:39 AM

<crickets chirping>Is this scenario a final product?</crickets chirping>

GoodGame

Apr 15, 2009, 08:18 AM

I had my entire military destroyed by sand lions in two turns. :lol:

Yeah this one is tricky at the start. Seems like I restart it a lot to avoid the worker getting mauled by barb units invading the cultural sphere.

Seems like the trick of making this scenario easy is to use the latitudal rivers to spread the faith before the council meeting. I placed one settler on the north river, founded Empyrean there, and before I knew it, the Svaltar were converted. I'm thinking have one city on each river, and the dark elves and dwarves will be converted before the meeting.

deanej

Apr 15, 2009, 10:13 PM

Tried this a couple of times as the Calabim but keep getting tripped up at the hidden nationality step. How do you get hidden nationality within the 75 turns? Most of the techs take forever to research, so I'm a very long ways away from getting to them. Am I supposed to be using only my starting nighthawk?

Also, any recommendations on what to do with the settlers that are given after razing Dirage? Any cities founded don't seem like they're going to be productive any time soon.

Any other strategies you would like to share would also be welcome (such as what to research, since everything takes so long, or how I could make it go faster). Also, got a python exception when razing Dirage:
Traceback (most recent call last):

File "CvEventInterface", line 23, in onEvent

File "CvEventManager", line 213, in handleEvent

File "CvEventManager", line 1964, in onCityRazed

File "ScenarioFunctions", line 1547, in onCityRazed

AttributeError: 'CyTeam' object has no attribute 'setDefensivePact'
ERR: Python function onEvent failed, module CvEventInterface

Kiwi Tyrant

Apr 29, 2009, 09:30 PM

I played this one as the calm Calabim, due entirely to the way Decius was treated by his freak of a father in Fall of Cuantine. Revenge is best served cold, father, and you're going to pay big time!!!

I found this too, to be relatively easy on Emperor level. Love these advanced start-up's.

* Amongst the initial Civic's available is Slavery. Definitely chose this for a whipping start!

* Used Supplies for a Hunting Lodge (instead of normal library option), just to build a Hawk to put on my starting Hunter. This worked out awesome for spotting and keeping tab's on the Hill Giant's, who seemed to be moving more than 1 tile at a time?

* With the 2 free settler's, I placed both on the river; north to get the copper, and south to get a couple of horses and wheat. I read that there was iron somewhere south too, but never got around to studying it (so it never showed). Game was finished in 149 turn's.

* The initial Moroi that start's with 'Vampirism' is your key man. As you 'feed' and other unit's kill barb's, you'll be able to pass it on long before you can actually make Vampire's!

* Raze Dirage and get free Nightwatch. I personally made sure it got some quick XP to get the Mobility1 promotion. Then I 'declared nationality' and immediately sent it out to spread CoE to the Khazad (gift everything to get open border's with the stubborn little stub's), Kane, and the dark elves. Due to lack of road's, I could'nt reach the Elohim in time before the 75 turn's is up. However, I did get 3 opponent's to switch to CoE.

* Turn 75 tick's over and I'm expecting auto declaration's of war etc. etc. NOTHING!!!
Just a message telling you to basically wipe out all cities with the Empyrean religion.
You can actually declare when you are ready, on any one enemy, and the other's don't even band together or offer a united front or anything. So I just got all CoE convert's to declare war on the main Malakim guy (yellow). I took him out (the other's did next to nothing) and then systematically razed any other cities that heathen religion had spread to, including my past 'friends'....

Not even Hyborem would turn on me like that father........ I personally want to see you writhing in a Breeding Pit with a hundred, leprous, hermaphrodite Orc's, spewing some mutant swine disease. Only then will I smile, close my eye's and look away, toward's the next scenario......

Antinous

Jun 03, 2009, 11:31 AM

Jesus Christ! You don't hold much of a grudge, do you Kiwi?

Moos

Jun 18, 2009, 11:30 AM

Also, got a python exception when razing Dirage:
Traceback (most recent call last):

File "CvEventInterface", line 23, in onEvent

File "CvEventManager", line 213, in handleEvent

File "CvEventManager", line 1964, in onCityRazed

File "ScenarioFunctions", line 1547, in onCityRazed

AttributeError: 'CyTeam' object has no attribute 'setDefensivePact'
ERR: Python function onEvent failed, module CvEventInterface

I also encounter this error and promptly gets a CtD.

deanej

Jun 18, 2009, 06:00 PM

I believe the method needed is "signDefensivePact", not "setDefensivePact".

Dragoon1

Jul 15, 2009, 10:06 PM

I played as Calabim. During the assault on Dirage an Khazad unit passed by and finished of the last defender. Capturing Dirage. :(

deanej

Jul 15, 2009, 11:25 PM

Can anyone help me with this scenario? I can't seem to raze Dirage. It's filled with goblin archers and none of my units stand a chance. I gave my moroi death II hoping that spectres would cause the units to scatter, but they do not. Are barbarian units immune to fear, or is this a bug? Could someone please help?

Dragoon1

Jul 16, 2009, 03:51 AM

I cleared it by bating the defenders. My forces stayed 2 tiles away from the city and each round I parked a lonely specter next to the city. AI kept attacking until there was only one Hill Giant and Warrior left. Than the Dwarf made their dick move.

deanej

Jul 20, 2009, 09:51 PM

Dragoon1

Jul 22, 2009, 08:02 AM

Could someone help me with razing Dirage? I tried Dragoon1's strategy of using a sprecter but it didn't work: the AI refused to attack it. I've attached a save (I later moved my forces over to prevent reinforcements from getting in).

It works! The AI is dumb, but not so dumb to jeopardize the safety of its city while your stack is right next to the city.
First you need to move your stack outside the cityradius and your stack should not have more than 3 units. Now cast the spectre and move it next to the city. The bab archers will attack it. Either they die or they win in which case next turn your newly summoned spectre will retaliate.

http://www.abload.de/img/civ4screenshot00011blx.jpg

After all archers plus a warrior died I gathered the troops and attacked Dirage. First with a spectre and than with blood a mori.
I uploaded the autosave and a save after razing Dirage.

Notice I founded Esus that turn, so build Gibbon Goetia asap. You want his cool Shadow 3 summon Mistform.
BTW east from Dirage is a river with a lot of flooded plains and some hills. Wouldn't be that a great place for a city with granary, smoke house, and a breeding pit to feed your vampires? Make sure all your vampires have the spectre summon promotion, and a few regeneration. Also build as many death mana nodes as you can.
Each node will increase spectre strength by one. You can easily have 3 death mana, that will give you strength 6 spectres. 10 Vampires with spectre summon can wipe out any city on the map.

deanej

Jul 22, 2009, 10:12 PM

I had tried from near that position earlier, so I started from an autosave a few turns back and tried again, this time with only a stack of three Moroi near Dirage. Didn't work. The AI did attack the specter this time, but the rate of units suiciding themselves was equal to the rate of reinforcements coming in. After no more reinforcements were available, the AI stopped attacking it. I've attached an autosave from around that point.

Where do I build the three death nodes? I only see two mana in the area, only one of which I will be able to harness. The planned city sites are where the two roads lead to. Should I put one near the mana on the coast instead of near the copper? Didn't notice that specters had death affinity - is this documented anywhere? It doesn't show up on the unit when I mouse over it (though it may be in the pedia; should check again).

Dragoon1

Jul 23, 2009, 05:40 AM

There are 3 Mana nodes close to you. There is the one next to your city, one on the coast that will eventually end-up in your cultural borders and a third west of you capital near the cooper.
You can build a city below the mountain to have cooper and mana in your city cross, but you need to boost culture because it is already a bit late in the game and the Malakim city grown big already.
A bit of advice, even it is now to late to benefit from it in time. You start with a Horseman. Horseman have a +40% vs archery units, with promotions you can push this to +120%.
You should have send your Horseman out exploring the world right from the beginning.
With combat and cover promotions it would be likely now a powerful archer killer.

The fact that you did noticed the third mana node next to you, after 50 turns gives you a hid you didn't explored aggressively enough.

In the manual that you can find here
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=265888
is the death affinity of the Spectres noted. You should search through the entire document for the word affinity to get an overview which units has affinity to which mana.

JFSebastian

Jul 23, 2009, 08:04 AM

If you head towards Dirage immediately, you can easily dispatch the single Hill Giant defending it. There are a couple of Graveyards on the way. Using the Moroi with Raise Skeleton on one will give you a small stack of skeletons to soften him up. Your Decius/Hunter, who you may be able to level up on the way, gets a nice bonus against Hill Giants (animals).

deanej

Jul 23, 2009, 08:37 PM

I could start again. Taking Dirage from the start is easy, but then your cities aren't ready for anything when you get the weaken Malakim objective. It doesn't seem like I can easily get Dirage and still be ready for the later objectives.

Also, if you make the horseman an archer killer, what's to prevent the hill giant or the warrior from defending, slaughtering the horseman and leaving you with nothing against the archers?

Dragoon1

Jul 24, 2009, 10:10 AM

I could start again. Taking Dirage from the start is easy, but then your cities aren't ready for anything when you get the weaken Malakim objective. It doesn't seem like I can easily get Dirage and still be ready for the later objectives.

You hurt only yourself if you wait razing Dirage because after you get 2 settlers.
The is no pressure for the latter objectives. The weaken Malakim for 75 turns can't be failed. In fact you can start the war with Varn Gosman at your discretion.

Also, if you make the horseman an archer killer, what's to prevent the hill giant or the warrior from defending, slaughtering the horseman and leaving you with nothing against the archers?

Backup? How about you don't let the horseman go in alone but with support from mori? You could even bring an archer with Hill Defend promotion.

Come on you could came up with this yourself or? ;)

deanej

Jul 24, 2009, 02:07 PM

Well, in normal civ the game selects the best defender for any attacker. So an attacking horseman with a huge bonus vs. archers would get the hill giant defending, and the Mori would get the archers...

I'm a bit of a permanoob when it comes to civ in general. I spend most of my time modding, and the little time spent playing is split between RFC and FFH, so I'm not that great at either. I think next time I'll just prepare for the war instead of doing what Flauros says. Seems like it's not worth the effort to do the latter (I must admit I was trying to roleplay the scenarios).

deanej

Jul 24, 2009, 10:58 PM

After doing this, I encounter a new python exception:

Traceback (most recent call last):

File "CvEventInterface", line 23, in onEvent

File "CvEventManager", line 212, in handleEvent

File "CvEventManager", line 1963, in onCityRazed

File "ScenarioFunctions", line 1547, in onCityRazed

NameError: global name 'getID' is not defined
ERR: Python function onEvent failed, module CvEventInterface

TC01

Jul 25, 2009, 09:02 AM

pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(0) #Varn
--------------------------------------------------------
eTeam = gc.getTeam(pPlayer.getTeam())
--------------------------------------------------------
eTeam.signDefensivePact(getID(2), true)
eTeam.signDefensivePact(getID(3), true)
eTeam.signDefensivePact(getID(5), true)

These are the lines of code where this error occurs. Apparently the game doesn't like "getID". I think, instead of using "getID" to retrieve the player number, you'd need something like this:

eTeam.signDefensivePact(gc.getTeam(gc.getPlayer(2) .getTeam()), true)
eTeam.signDefensivePact(gc.getTeam(gc.getPlayer(3) .getTeam()), true)
eTeam.signDefensivePact(gc.getTeam(gc.getPlayer(5) .getTeam()), true)

I'm assuming this would be the right method. I don't know if defensive pacts are signed by team to team or by team to player. Team to player would look like this:

eTeam.signDefensivePact(gc.getPlayer(2), true)
eTeam.signDefensivePact(gc.getPlayer(3), true)
eTeam.signDefensivePact(gc.getPlayer(5), true)

GordonF

Jul 30, 2009, 06:57 PM

Well, this was a rather interesting game. I am playing as the Malakim, and decided to milk the hell out of that period before finding Varn. Attaching Decius to my Hunter, he became my hero and I managed to capture a barb city that formed to my north (in the foresty/hilly/grassy area-- perfect site for a production city). I spread Empyrean to Kane (the other Malakim) and the Elohim, and both Flauros and Sval war-dec'd me. I haven't played the game normally past the "Spread within 75 turns" so I interpretted that as "win a religious victory in 75 turns or lose" (if it isn't, please correct me :lol:). Switching to RoK, I got open borders with the Dwarves and spread it to them too, before switching back and bribing them to convert to Emp.

And then, Kane vassalized Flauros (and would later vassalize the Dwarves too). I managed to defeat and vassalize the Sval, and "encouraged" them to convert to Emp too. So now all that was left was stubborn old Flauros (as a vassal of Kane, he was unable to declare war on me, but the -10 diplo modifier made it impossible for me to convert him to Emp).

Feeling pretty good, I moved my heroic hunter (now Beastmaster Awesome) onto the Mirror and BAM! Kane and Flauros and Dwarves wardec me. Ouch. So, I reload (I swear I never do this, but COME ON.)

Taking an alternate strategy, I notice that the religious victory is still enabled and proceed to Inquisition every city on the map (except Flauros who is still clinging to OO), and win a religious victory. I get a nice little dialog box with Varn (guess he found his way out of the desert on his own), and the next scenario unlocks.

Aside from the reloading, would you say this is cheating, a glitch, or just an alternative way of beating the scenario?

TC01

Jul 31, 2009, 09:34 PM

Bill Bisco

Aug 02, 2009, 08:57 AM

There must be a bug in this scenario because I killed the Calabim before the 75 turns was up, and yet the dialogue during the Council meeting says that Flauros will likely oppose me. But, he's already dead so that dialogue doesn't make any sense.

By the way, the only way I can stand to play this scenario is on Marathon so that I have time to turn my Camel Archer with Decius into a superstar killing machine before the other civs can build armies fast enough to stop me.

Kill all barbs on the map to get a lot of xp, and be sure to get the anti-Archer, anti-Warrior and anti-Mounted Promotion. Then proceed to kill the Calabim, then the Svarts, then the Dwarves. Raze every city; don't waste time and resources with occupation.

Lone Wolf

Aug 07, 2009, 11:41 AM

There must be a bug in this scenario because I killed the Calabim before the 75 turns was up, and yet the dialogue during the Council meeting says that Flauros will likely oppose me. But, he's already dead so that dialogue doesn't make any sense.

Well, think that all those Calabim cities you razed are just a part of their empire that borders the Malaki desert.

hbar

Sep 22, 2009, 01:15 PM

playing as Cabalim, Python error on razing Dirage (latest patch)

Traceback
File "CvEventInterface", lin23, in onEvent
File "CvEventManager" line 212 in handleEvent
File "CvEventManager", line 1963, in onCityRazed
File "ScenarioFunctions", line 1551, in onCityRazed

ArgumentError: Python argument types in
CyTeam.signDefensivePact(CyTeam, CyTeam)
did not match C++ signature:
signDefensivePact(class CyTeam {lvalue],int)
But it seems the scenario is still playable after the error.

Veqryn

Oct 19, 2009, 01:21 PM

having a major problem with this scenario

it starts up ok from the scenario launcher, but the second I click end turn (the first turn), the game hangs and stops (have to press esc to close it)

i have latest patch "i", am playing as malakim
other scenarios seem to work fine. I can't get the black tower to work from the launcher, but i haven't tried other methods yet, and all other scenarios work

Breunor

Oct 19, 2009, 11:07 PM

Veqryn

Oct 21, 2009, 10:23 PM

I tried a couple more times, fresh starts, and even one directly from the scenario files on the computer. none will work. I thought maybe there is something wrong with the malakim version of the scenario? I have gone back, done the fall of cuantine a second time and chosen calabrim. Still does not work.
Everything loads perfectly fine, then when I go to press the end turn for the first turn, the game hangs / does not respond.

i've attached my save file, saved on turn one, if someone can check that out and see if the game plays ok?
i am using patch 'i'
I have windows xp pro, sp3, and also .net 3.5, and i can post other information about my computer or setup if need be

edit: it now works with patch "j"

JonQ

Jan 15, 2010, 08:26 AM

how do I play as calabim? was this option removed?

deanej

Jan 15, 2010, 02:11 PM

You have to choose to flee to the Calabim in the previous scenario.

MagisterCultuum

Jan 15, 2010, 03:33 PM

Or, you could just load the scenario file directly, and choose the version with Calakim in the name instead of Malakim.

Mods\Fall from Heaven 2\Assets\XML\Scenarios\Into the Desert Calabim.CivBeyondSwordWBSave

JonQ

Jan 16, 2010, 03:09 PM

Thanks for the help Magister.

Seems I got a religious victory in the previous one. Playing as the calabim Varn Gosam founds and spreads ROK, the objectives of the scenario is to "destroy all empyrian cities".
I guess this means get a conquest victory before someone wins a religious victory.

Seems like the AI in scenarios are bad at handling starting out with a religion, or getting a religion from a priest. (They research other religions even when having the holy city).

When playing as the Malakim I also noticed Kane was eager to switch to FOL, even if every city had empyrian he switched if one of his cities was FOL (even gifted me a FOL deciple unit).
Elohim leader seems to do the same with empyrian.
Being unable to ask the AI to switch religions makes this scenario hard to win without attacking other civs.

Its a fun scenario, but think the AI could be made to play the Malakim a bit more like the player would (Malakim focusing on Empyrian, calabim esus instead of always going for OO.)

Also, the sand lions are annoying. They just sit outside the malakim city and wont attack (on a forrested hill making it impossible to kill them.)

Folket

Feb 04, 2010, 06:02 AM

I find it really sad that you decide which civ to join at the end of the first scenario. It would be nicer to choose at the beginning of this scenario so that you easier play both stories.

PPQ_Purple

Apr 07, 2010, 03:59 PM

A question, playing as the Calibim.
The objective to raise all Empirean cities, what exactly does that mean?
Does it refer to all cities with the emperian religion present or just to the Malikim cities?

Also, what happens if emperian spreads to one of my cities?

PPQ_Purple

Apr 19, 2010, 05:22 PM

Sorry for the bump but ANYONE???

Senethro

Apr 22, 2010, 04:08 PM

I had to raze all Empyrean cities. I did this by not being a big turtle and sitting about all game. I got my war on early and often.

PPQ_Purple

Apr 22, 2010, 06:19 PM

So I will have to burn that one... oh well. More blood for me.

Hesmyrr

Oct 25, 2010, 01:49 AM

Holy hell, I just finished this campaign on Noble and I think I took the approach which made it too unnecessarily hard for myself. Wanting to take pacifist apporach, I immeidately put everything to 100% and started producing research, beelining for Forest -> Earth -> Octopus religion respectively. Used Decius+Camel archer immediately toward the mirror to get all those 3 city boosts as possible, and was very lucky in that there were TWO sand tiger dens in my way, so got those eliminated pretty quickly and didn't have to deal with them at all.

And at output of 100% and 3 cities my finance was obviously in red, and I was scouring the goody huts with my now powerful Decius+Camel archer (with skill that gives 2 gold when beating enemy learned) for additional funds to keep my science output at max. And even then I was beaten to the Octopus Overlords by EXACTLY 1 turn by Flauros taking advantage of the moment when my treasury ran out and I had to put my science fund allocation down to 90% for few turns. So I loaded my save state approx. 10 turns before and hit the same goody hut over and over again hoping it'd give out some money so I could keep science at 100%, and it gave out FISHING instead, which was perfectly fine with me xD

Even then, although I beelined for Theocracy immediately to prevent spread of non-state religion, it was way too late and when I got Theocracy up I was in dire need for lot of inquisitors.
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/9035/civ4screenshot0002e.jpg
The fact that I researched Honour last probably has something to do with this statistics.
Fortunately everyone but Flauros was in overcouncil with me so relations wasn't that much of the problem, with exception of the latter of course. In fact he led a group of fifteen Maoi? Mioi? those strength 4 guys with three catapults and actually took down one of two barbarian cities I captured solely using camel archer. Cracked up religious fervor (I actually forgot about my world spell until my Malakim counterpart Kain kindly used up his world spell after the seige) and used my recently completed Arakin? well, Inquisitor hero guy + camel archer to beat back the rest of stack from invading my mainland, which wasn't really that hard since there was only about 6 of them surviving. Since he razed the barbarian city I captured I had no choice but to deviate from my pacifist position, abandon my scientific lead, and put all my production into warfare and capture the lowermost of his city to persuade him into making temporary seize fire. And I saw Empyrean in fact spread to few of his cities as well, and by then the Empyrean percentage was about 45% and so, and I was wondering why it was so low while me + Kain + Elohim nearly had perfect Empyrean nation then I realized that barbarian city concentrations count as the overall population needed for religious victory too wtf -_-

There were 6 cities with all over at least population of 4 - all conveniently located on south side which meant it would be far away from Calabrim - so I had to lead half of my army just to make sure against possible backstabbing, and used my hero to go on barbarian sweep tour which made the religious situation much more tolerable. Even then it took some more turn to get the threshold over 80% because I hadn't been taking that much attention to the religious situation of dwarf and evil elf civ and needed to influence them too. What a marathon D:

Edit: And for some reason game crashed every time when I tried to use solinum-diplomacy to try to curry favour toward me for some reason =/