Thought I'd give the Pirates a try and provide a little feedback. Bear in mind a) I suck at this game and b) I was looking for things to break.

1. Apparently pirates are religious. Build a church, hire a cassock and they'll start flocking towards you. Forget gold, your military prowess or even rum, it's the Fear of God that'll bring those buccaneers running. :)

2. The mouseover for the Sail to Europe button and the pop-up that appears when you are in the Atlantic, both say sail to Europe, but isn't Tortuga in the Americas. Perhaps the Europe string needs to be changed to Sail to Homeland, or even just Sail Elsewhere which opens a menu when you reach you destination: Africa, England, France, Spain, Portugal, Holland, Russia, the Atlantic, the Pacific, etc.) One possibility might be two buttons. One for sail to Homeland, one for Sail Elsewhere.

Sailing to other nations offers the possibility of a more dynamic market. If Cigars are popular in England and Cloth is popular in France, then you can make a profit by selling the right goods to the right markets.

European colonies can charge a flat 25% tax on goods not from their own colonies, so early on it's not in the Independent Colonies interests to sell to non-homeland countries, later on it becomes more worthwhile. Of course, selling to the kings rivals ought to cause a REF raise or dip hit at some point.

3. Pirates can employ FF. It's a struggle and you have to buy PP, but you can do it. Maybe the Pirates should have legendary captains instead: Francis Drake, Walter Raleigh, Blackbeard, Captain Kid, etc. Getting Letters of Marque and playing the European kings off against one another ought to be a big feature of being a pirate. Not too sure how you implement this in the game.

4. Errol Flynn be damned. Apparently the prefered weapon of a swashbuckler isn't a rapier, cutlass or flintlock pistol but a glaive. Seeing swashbucklers using polearms looks very wrong.

5. Swashbucklers waylaid! I found that because my swashbucklers had hidden nationality they were forever being bushwhacked when they past native villages.

6. Naval interception is the way to go, which is probably as it should be. However, sacking towns doesn't give you much in the way of Plunder, and there's no option to ransom the towns either (compare with the Vikings scenario in warlords) Raiding ancient temples and burial grounds ought to give a small Plunder bonus too, as that feels like a very "pirate" kind of activity. I never saw a foreign treasure so didn't get a chance to ambush one of those and see if I got any kind of Plunder bonus from stealing them and selling them in Tortuga.

7. There's a Pirate King, but without a Town Hall I'm unlikely to be able to rebel against him and without a REF, I'll ignore his every demand for cash.

Maybe Pirate Rebel Sentiment (let's call it Morale) ought to be based on your military record - lots of looting and pillaging (and Rum?) ought to raise Morale. Maybe you could "buy" Morale, by sharing out your loot.
Own at least five colonies and raise Morale high enough, then challenge to become the new Pirate King.

The loss of the Rebel Sentiment feature also affects your work rate. Independent colonies can ring out them freedom bells and get a better rate of return from thier workforce, no such options is availabvle for the Pirates.

8. Not especially pirate related, but shouldn't the Freedom Bell Achievement read "You have rung your first bell" and the Cros achievement read something like "You have preached your first sermon"

Thats a very good playtest with some seriously great feedback :)

1. Apparently pirates are religious. Build a church, hire a cassock and they'll start flocking towards you. Forget gold, your military prowess or even rum, it's the Fear of God that'll bring those buccaneers running. :)
Interesting technique. My first thought is that perhaps pirates should not produce as many crosses, or have a higher cross requirement. Or perhaps their preachers attract donations and produce additional gold/trade goods ... Did that feel wrong when playing that way?

2. The mouseover for the Sail to Europe button and the pop-up that appears when you are in the Atlantic, both say sail to Europe, but isn't Tortuga in the Americas. Perhaps the Europe string needs to be changed to Sail to Homeland, or even just Sail Elsewhere which opens a menu when you reach you destination: Africa, England, France, Spain, Portugal, Holland, Russia, the Atlantic, the Pacific, etc.) One possibility might be two buttons. One for sail to Homeland, one for Sail Elsewhere.

Sailing to other nations offers the possibility of a more dynamic market. If Cigars are popular in England and Cloth is popular in France, then you can make a profit by selling the right goods to the right markets.

European colonies can charge a flat 25% tax on goods not from their own colonies, so early on it's not in the Independent Colonies interests to sell to non-homeland countries, later on it becomes more worthwhile. Of course, selling to the kings rivals ought to cause a REF raise or dip hit at some point.

Good ideas. Lots of work coding that but would create interesting play opportunities.
Think I'd even hike it up to all non-player European nations charge 50% import tax, but that they will accept goods boycotted by your own king...
Easiest option short term would be to change the mouseover text to "Sail to Home Port" or something similar.

3. Pirates can employ FF. It's a struggle and you have to buy PP, but you can do it. Maybe the Pirates should have legendary captains instead: Francis Drake, Walter Raleigh, Blackbeard, Captain Kid, etc. Getting Letters of Marque and playing the European kings off against one another ought to be a big feature of being a pirate. Not too sure how you implement this in the game.

Its possible to add more fathers and I think you could also add a new option or tab to the Exploration/Military/Religion menu... etc. say "Pirates".

I'm guessing you could also make Political Points a unique build for pirates so that they can only produce "Piracy Points" and gain the Pirate Fathers. I like this idea for Pirate Fathers, may have some early balancing issues, but makes them a much more fun option to play :) One drawback is graphics work, getting pictures for all fathers, editing them to usable graphics, and then formatting to fit the original col figurehead 'theme'.

4. Errol Flynn be damned. Apparently the prefered weapon of a swashbuckler isn't a rapier, cutlass or flintlock pistol but a glaive. Seeing swashbucklers using polearms looks very wrong.

Yeah that would look a bit soft :p

5. Swashbucklers waylaid! I found that because my swashbucklers had hidden nationality they were forever being bushwhacked when they past native villages.

Hooray for indians attacking the bad guys!

6. Naval interception is the way to go, which is probably as it should be. However, sacking towns doesn't give you much in the way of Plunder, and there's no option to ransom the towns either (compare with the Vikings scenario in warlords) Raiding ancient temples and burial grounds ought to give a small Plunder bonus too, as that feels like a very "pirate" kind of activity. I never saw a foreign treasure so didn't get a chance to ambush one of those and see if I got any kind of Plunder bonus from stealing them and selling them in Tortuga.

Gold from towns is one thing I slightly increased in LooF 1.4 (max 20 gold per pop - up from 10). I also doubled the 'Looter' promotion. I think both need increasing for AODII as well, and probably even more so for conquered towns. Raiding temples as a bonus is codeable as a trait for Leaders, also to me sounds like a good trait for a 'Pirate Father' to have :)

7. There's a Pirate King, but without a Town Hall I'm unlikely to be able to rebel against him and without a REF, I'll ignore his every demand for cash.

Maybe Pirate Rebel Sentiment (let's call it Morale) ought to be based on your military record - lots of looting and pillaging (and Rum?) ought to raise Morale. Maybe you could "buy" Morale, by sharing out your loot.
Own at least five colonies and raise Morale high enough, then challenge to become the new Pirate King.

The loss of the Rebel Sentiment feature also affects your work rate. Independent colonies can ring out them freedom bells and get a better rate of return from thier workforce, no such options is availabvle for the Pirates.

Interesting LT idea for playable pirates with independance, though that is a lot of work with all kinds of balance issues. I wouldn't really like to be playing as a European nation and see the pirates beat me to an independance victory!

8. Not especially pirate related, but shouldn't the Freedom Bell Achievement read "You have rung your first bell" and the Cros achievement read something like "You have preached your first sermon"

That is another good idea I like a lot :) "You have preached your first sermon", or "You have published your first independant writings". Sounds good and helps to hide a game (achievement) mechanic.

Any ideas for how to word the others (10 crosses, 100 crosses/turn, 10 bells, 100 bellls/turn)?

I tried playing the pirates in the Ozzie's Americas (Aod2) scenario, and Tortuga was not available. this is with the latest 1.05 build. When I sent my pirate brig off to "Europe", it simply sailed into the Atlantic and disappeared, never to be seen again, and the Tortuga (Europe) button was non-functional.

Needless to say, I quickly gave up.

Cheers, --- Wheldrake

Great feedback Jabie. :)

1. Actually some pirates were very religious, and actively went out of their ways to assist preachers, the church, or even take on preachers as very high members of the crew giving their a large share of the booty.

2. Yeah, as pointed out that will require some coding changes.

3. I can do the python screen and Pirate Points changes, Jenks can you form a FF line for Pirates? :)

4. That's an offshoot of the model I used. It's a Civ4 model and the animation there is not supported in Col. So I'm hoping some graphically enabled person can help out in that respect. :D

5. As intended. :)

6. Modified for the next version using LooF changes.

7. Correct. No ability to raise sentiment and no ability to rebel against Tortuga. There is no real loyalty among Pirates, so implementing a rebellion concept is a bit far fetched. I'm looking into ways to implement a "defeat the Pirate King to become the Pirate King" victory path, but it's a way off being implemented yet. As it is, Pirates can pursue Plunder, Economic and Industrial victory paths. :)

8. If you'd like to rewrite the texts, please feel free. :)

3. I can do the python screen and Pirate Points changes, Jenks can you form a FF line for Pirates?


Aint Wikipedia great? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pirates
Aside from those I mentioned before, Pierre Le Grand and Red Legs Greaves, spring to mind. Gasparilla (a.k.a. Panther Key John) is a nice choice, but is close to the end of the timeframe and somewhat apocryphal.

Dread Pirate Roberts might make a good easter egg.

8. If you'd like to rewrite the texts, please feel free. :)

I'll have a look through them at some point and see if anything springs to mind. Any directions on the XML file and location I should be looking at?

Aint Wikipedia great? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pirates
Aside from those I mentioned before, Pierre Le Grand and Red Legs Greaves, spring to mind. Gasparilla (a.k.a. Panther Key John) is a nice choice, but is close to the end of the timeframe and somewhat apocryphal.

Dread Pirate Roberts might make a good easter egg.

Bartholomew Roberts is the second Pirates leader, so no good. :)

Maybe Drake?

I'll have a look through them at some point and see if anything springs to mind. Any directions on the XML file and location I should be looking at?

The \XML\Texts\ folder is where all the text is stored. The files are labelled fairly logically to organise all the text required for the mod. :)

Several thoughts about Pirates.

1. Pirates' main (if not only) source of getting new ships must be capturing of them. According to all historical sources, it was standard route:

get a boat -> capture some barque -> go for a bigger prey

Probably 25% starting success with three levels of "Aboardage" promotion, each upgrading the chance of capturing the ship for additional 25%.

2. Pirate ships often were remodelled versions of merchant ships. Nothing is more simple, actually: just make Pirate Caravels, Merchantmans and Galleons being able to attack, no need to change their strength or anything.

3. Instead of Tortuga, they could have either vague "Europe" or all 5 possible cities. Though this is not really realistic, they usually stayed at the New World.

And that's the idea! Remove possibility of sailing TO Europe, but make it possible to buy new ships with crew there.

Important notice: while Pirate Brigs should remain cost-effective to buy, other ships price should be really high, like 2 or 3 times normal price for merchant ships, 4 for Privateer, 5 for Frigate, and no option to buy ship of the line.

Why? Simple: if you want more ships, just capture them.

And to hell with Pirate King, they don't need anyone to boss them around.

4. Pirate Brig, as the only their ship which cannot sink others, should probably stay - they would be too dangerous at start if they will have combat ship at first turn.

But major power of pirates was the possibility to sail under any flag. Not only pirates did it, of course, but the it still was a pirate trademark. Because of that versatility, it makes complete sense that pirates should be able to enter other nations' ports and trade there.

5. Indians were not that aggressive to pirates. More than that, Indians usually hated Spaniards for obvious reasons, and enemy of your enemy is your friend. I am not sure that Pirates conducted trade with the Indians, though.

6. Most pirates became pirates in the New World, not in Europe. What if any unit of Servants and Criminals, no matter what nation employs them, will have either chance to run away, transforming into Deckhand, or at least to spawn Deckhands from time to time?

7. Instead of building crosses, it may be very interesting to build "Opportunities" in mechanic similar to Great General points, but based on gold captured from all sources. Godless hoodlums don't need no stinking preachers, but if they'd heard about opportunities of the New World piracy, they'd definitely consider to travel there!

8. Pirates don't need to build colonies to gather tobacco and sugar. They are too good for this honest stuff. Their colonies' only purpose should be as temporary warehouses and repairing docks. Building new ships is probably out of their league too.

Remove pirates' cultural boundaries at all and make it possible to build only these structures:

Docks, Warehouse, Expanded Warehouse, Blacksmith Shop, Armory, Magazine, Arsenal (without necessity of Lumber Mill), Stockade, Fort, Fortress. Okay, Distillery and maybe even Tobaccionist Factory.

9. Pirate diplomacy is what makes it fun. Historically we had France supporting pirating, England and Netherlands somewhat supportive too, and Spain, obviously, was definitely against it. Why so? Simple: Spanish ships were most numerous and bountiful. Pirates could easily avoid attack on rare and small French Merchantman with raw hides just because it's better idea to attack Spanish Galleon with silver and gold.

Pirates should be able to befriend weaker factions, to spare them and to attack stronger ones. It will be interesting from balance standpoint: if you are very rich and powerful, they'll come after you.

Of course, pirates need some friends just to sell all this stolen loot. And of course, they should "enjoy" 50% tax in dealing with other Europeans, just to make it profitable for both sides.

That's enough for now.

Maybe Drake?

Definitely Drake.

The \XML\Texts\ folder is where all the text is stored. The files are labelled fairly logically to organise all the text required for the mod. :)

Hmm. Here's a first stab....

Veterans

1 = You have employed your first veteran.
25 = You have a small veteran detachment.
50 = You have a significant veteran detachment.
100 = You have a vast veteran detachment.

Soldiers

1 = You have employed your first soldier.
25 = You have a small infantry detachment
50 = You have a significant infantry detachment.
100 = You have a vast infantry detachment.

Dragoons

1 = You have employed your first dragoon.
25 = You have a small cavalry detachment.
50 = You have a significant cavalry detachment.
100 = You have a vast cavalry detachment.

Change the header from Built first bell to Rung first Bell. Change other headers likewise.

1 = You have rung your first Liberty Bell.
10 = You have fermented significant political debate.
50 = Your colony has become renowned for its political debate.

Change the header from Built first cross to Preached first Cross.

1= You have preached your first sermon.
10 = You have fermented significant religious debate.
50 = Your colony has become renowned for its religious debate.

Lose the captial W in the You have Won your tenth military victory and its kin.

Discovered Atlantic / Pacific - This feels wrong. The Europeans had already discovered the Atlantic Ocean - go to Penzance and keep going West. This is a bit of a tricky one if you going to start including Russia and other nations that arrive from the Pacific, you'll need to parametrise the terms Atlantic and Pacific. Perhaps Crossed the Atlantic and Discovered the Pacific Coast for nations that travel West. Switch the roles of the oceans for the travellers from the East.

There should be an Achivement for building the first Newspaper, plus one for 25 soldiers and one for trading your first treasure. (Header: Traded a Treasure / Text: Traded the wealth of the New World) This would take you to your magic 50 achievements.

Definitely Drake.



Hmm. Here's a first stab....

Veterans

1 = You have employed your first veteran.
25 = You have a small veteran detachment.
50 = You have a significant veteran detachment.
100 = You have a vast veteran detachment.

Soldiers

1 = You have employed your first soldier.
25 = You have a small infantry detachment
50 = You have a significant infantry detachment.
100 = You have a vast infantry detachment.

Dragoons

You have employed your first dragoon.
25 = You have a small cavalry detachment.
50 = You have a significant cavalry detachment.
100 = You have a vast cavalry detachment.

Change the header from Built first bell to Rung first Bell. Change other headers likewise.

1 = You have built your first Liberty Bell.
10 = You have fermented significant political debate.
50 = Your colony has become renowned for its political debate.

Change the header from Built first cross to Preached first Cross.

1= You have preached your first sermon.
10 = You have fermented significant religious debate.
50 = Your colony has become renowned for its religious debate.

Lose the captial W in the You have Won your tenth military victory and its kin.

Discovered Atlantic / Pacific - This feels wrong. The Europeans had already discovered the Atlantic Ocean - go to Penzance and keep going West. This is a bit of a tricky one if you going to start including Russia and other nations that arrive from the Pacific, you'll need to parametrise the terms Atlantic and Pacific. Perhaps Crossed the Atlantic and Discovered the Pacific Coast for nations that travel West. Switch the roles of the oceans for the travellers from the East.

There should be an Achivement for building the first Newspaper, plus one for 25 soldiers and one for trading your first treasure. (Header: Traded a Treasure / Text: Traded the wealth of the New World) This would take you to your magic 50 achievements.

nice suggestions every one :) (the text changes are definately easier to include than Western/Eastern explorers tho!)

10 = You have fermented significant political debate.

Er... that should be "fomented debate". While debate may involve large quantities of fermented spirits, the expression used is to "foment" debate.

<g>

Cheers, --- Wheldrake

Yeah, the ocean discoveries is going to be interesting when Russia and China are included.

Thanks for your feedback. :)

Several thoughts about Pirates.

1. Pirates' main (if not only) source of getting new ships must be capturing of them. According to all historical sources, it was standard route:

get a boat -> capture some barque -> go for a bigger prey

Probably 25% starting success with three levels of "Aboardage" promotion, each upgrading the chance of capturing the ship for additional 25%.

Getting the AI to form a formidable Pirate enclave via this method would be very hard to do. Allowing the Pirates to build/buy/capture (to come) ships is the best solution to suit all player types. I know it's not accurate, but sometimes gameplay trumps history. :)

2. Pirate ships often were remodelled versions of merchant ships. Nothing is more simple, actually: just make Pirate Caravels, Merchantmans and Galleons being able to attack, no need to change their strength or anything.

As above, I think one capturing is implemented this will fulfill all the fun requirements of Pirates. :)

3. Instead of Tortuga, they could have either vague "Europe" or all 5 possible cities. Though this is not really realistic, they usually stayed at the New World.

And that's the idea! Remove possibility of sailing TO Europe, but make it possible to buy new ships with crew there.

The Europe sea zone should be seem more as an abstraction to sailing to a Pirate safe harbor. Pirates didn't go back to Europe much, they prefered to trade/deal with Pirate safe harbors such as New Provedence (Bahamas), Port Royal (Jamaica) and Tortuga (Haiti). If a Pirate became sanctioned by a European country (and thus able to safetly trade in that nation's European ports) they became a Privateer not a Pirate, who are already modeled within Col. So that's why Europe is replaced with Tortuga. But yes, the button labels need to be changed. :)

Important notice: while Pirate Brigs should remain cost-effective to buy, other ships price should be really high, like 2 or 3 times normal price for merchant ships, 4 for Privateer, 5 for Frigate, and no option to buy ship of the line.

Why? Simple: if you want more ships, just capture them.

I don't want Pirates building/buying other ships, just Brigs and Pirate Ships.

And to hell with Pirate King, they don't need anyone to boss them around.

Necessary for a future victory condition. ;)

4. Pirate Brig, as the only their ship which cannot sink others, should probably stay - they would be too dangerous at start if they will have combat ship at first turn.

But major power of pirates was the possibility to sail under any flag. Not only pirates did it, of course, but the it still was a pirate trademark. Because of that versatility, it makes complete sense that pirates should be able to enter other nations' ports and trade there.

Agreed, needs to be changed.

5. Indians were not that aggressive to pirates. More than that, Indians usually hated Spaniards for obvious reasons, and enemy of your enemy is your friend. I am not sure that Pirates conducted trade with the Indians, though.

This is difficult as the always hostile tag makes Indians hate them too.

6. Most pirates became pirates in the New World, not in Europe. What if any unit of Servants and Criminals, no matter what nation employs them, will have either chance to run away, transforming into Deckhand, or at least to spawn Deckhands from time to time?

Actually, most Pirates came from Europe after the succession wars.

Wiki:
Many pirates came to the Caribbean after the end of the War of the Spanish Succession. Many people stayed in the Caribbean and became pirates shortly after that. Others, the buccaneers, arrived in the mid-to-late 17th century and made attempts at earning a living by farming and hunting on Hispaniola and nearby islands; pressed by Spanish raids and possibly failure of their means of making a living, they turned to a more lucrative occupation (not to mention more active and conducive to revenge). Caribbean piracy arose out of, and mirrored on a smaller scale, the conflicts over trade and colonization among the rival European powers of the time, including England, Spain, Dutch United Provinces, Portuguese Empire and France. Most of these pirates were of English, Dutch and French origin.

Besides, Tortuga is really the New World anyways. :p

7. Instead of building crosses, it may be very interesting to build "Opportunities" in mechanic similar to Great General points, but based on gold captured from all sources. Godless hoodlums don't need no stinking preachers, but if they'd heard about opportunities of the New World piracy, they'd definitely consider to travel there!

A lot of Pirates were religious, and some even came about due to the Religious Wars. Pirates weren't necessarily "godless hoodlums". :)
- William Kidd turned sailor after being a minister.

8. Pirates don't need to build colonies to gather tobacco and sugar. They are too good for this honest stuff. Their colonies' only purpose should be as temporary warehouses and repairing docks. Building new ships is probably out of their league too.

Remove pirates' cultural boundaries at all and make it possible to build only these structures:

Docks, Warehouse, Expanded Warehouse, Blacksmith Shop, Armory, Magazine, Arsenal (without necessity of Lumber Mill), Stockade, Fort, Fortress. Okay, Distillery and maybe even Tobaccionist Factory.

Pirates can form basic colonies, but nothing like the colonies of the other Europeans. I think the player also needs "something to do" rather than just sailing around looking for a few AI ships to plunder. With colonies to build it helps fill in the time.

9. Pirate diplomacy is what makes it fun. Historically we had France supporting pirating, England and Netherlands somewhat supportive too, and Spain, obviously, was definitely against it. Why so? Simple: Spanish ships were most numerous and bountiful. Pirates could easily avoid attack on rare and small French Merchantman with raw hides just because it's better idea to attack Spanish Galleon with silver and gold.

Pirates should be able to befriend weaker factions, to spare them and to attack stronger ones. It will be interesting from balance standpoint: if you are very rich and powerful, they'll come after you.

Of course, pirates need some friends just to sell all this stolen loot. And of course, they should "enjoy" 50% tax in dealing with other Europeans, just to make it profitable for both sides.

That's enough for now.

That's the purpose of Tortuga, to provide the Pirates a place to trade. As for interactions with other nations, that's coming in the future. More changes are planned for the Pirates, just other things need to come first. :)

IMO pirates shouldn't be able to win - they should just be an unplayable menace.

And how to counter attack Pirates if their plundering your ships?/wealth?

I've tried playing the pirates, and IMHO it just doesn't work.
1) I start with a pirate brig that can't attack other ships - how then can I be a pirate?
2) I've started building up my initial town, but it's very slow without any appropriate specialists.
3) I can create scouts to get a little initial income, but can't make dragoons. Is this a feature, or a bug?

As near as I can determine, the only way to get my first real pirate ship is to buy it for 3000 gold, or build a shipyard... which looks like it will take nearly all game to reach, without specialists.

Either I'm doing something wrong, or else pirates aren't yet ready to be a playable nation.

FWIW - both the Ozzie's Americas and Ozzie's Americas [AoDII] scenarios don't work with playable pirates, as access to the Tortuga screen isn't possible.

Cheers, --- Wheldrake

I noticed when playing with Pirates that they can attack me without declaring war, but for me to attack them, I do have to declare war.

IMO they should be like privateers - anyone can attack them and they can attack anyone else no need for war.

It's not a really big deal, but once you declare war on the pirates, the AI makes them gun for you more than they already were. If the intention is to have them be super aggressive then maybe the answer is to have them be permanently at war with all the European colonists.

3. I can do the python screen and Pirate Points changes, Jenks can you form a FF line for Pirates? :)


I will try and get my head around that after testing them out a couple of times :)

One brainstorming thought I have at the moment is that Pirate Points could be obtainable by building them with a carpenter (Pirates only), or also by combat victory by any unit with Hidden Nationality (i.e. would also include player Privateers)?

I guess that wouldn't work if Pirate Points were made as a unique building (replacing Political Points) - but is it possible to add another type of point?!

IMO pirates shouldn't be able to win - they should just be an unplayable menace.

I thought that too initially, but I guess having the option to play as them doesn't take this away. They are still going to be menacing, but allowing play as them allows you to find a balance (and adds a unique feature to all the players who REALLY want to play as the pirates!) :)

Hmm. Here's a first stab....

Veterans

1 = You have employed your first veteran.
25 = You have a small veteran detachment.
50 = You have a significant veteran detachment.
100 = You have a vast veteran detachment.

Soldiers

1 = You have employed your first soldier.
25 = You have a small infantry detachment
50 = You have a significant infantry detachment.
100 = You have a vast infantry detachment.

Dragoons

You have employed your first dragoon.
25 = You have a small cavalry detachment.
50 = You have a significant cavalry detachment.
100 = You have a vast cavalry detachment.

Change the header from Built first bell to Rung first Bell. Change other headers likewise.

1 = You have built your first Liberty Bell.
10 = You have fermented significant political debate.
50 = Your colony has become renowned for its political debate.

Change the header from Built first cross to Preached first Cross.

1= You have preached your first sermon.
10 = You have fermented significant religious debate.
50 = Your colony has become renowned for its religious debate.

Lose the captial W in the You have Won your tenth military victory and its kin.

Discovered Atlantic / Pacific - This feels wrong. The Europeans had already discovered the Atlantic Ocean - go to Penzance and keep going West. This is a bit of a tricky one if you going to start including Russia and other nations that arrive from the Pacific, you'll need to parametrise the terms Atlantic and Pacific. Perhaps Crossed the Atlantic and Discovered the Pacific Coast for nations that travel West. Switch the roles of the oceans for the travellers from the East.

There should be an Achivement for building the first Newspaper, plus one for 25 soldiers and one for trading your first treasure. (Header: Traded a Treasure / Text: Traded the wealth of the New World) This would take you to your magic 50 achievements.

These are pretty good. Perhaps for the military units you could use significant/relevant size wise groups, if you understand? Eg 1st soldier, platoon(?) of soldiers, regiment... or something along those lines. Also you could vary the text for the bells/crosses, to avoid repetition. Agree on the Discover Atlantic and the other new acheivements.

I've tried playing the pirates, and IMHO it just doesn't work.
1) I start with a pirate brig that can't attack other ships - how then can I be a pirate?
2) I've started building up my initial town, but it's very slow without any appropriate specialists.
3) I can create scouts to get a little initial income, but can't make dragoons. Is this a feature, or a bug?

As near as I can determine, the only way to get my first real pirate ship is to buy it for 3000 gold, or build a shipyard... which looks like it will take nearly all game to reach, without specialists.

Either I'm doing something wrong, or else pirates aren't yet ready to be a playable nation.

FWIW - both the Ozzie's Americas and Ozzie's Americas [AoDII] scenarios don't work with playable pirates, as access to the Tortuga screen isn't possible.

Cheers, --- Wheldrake

Yeah i found this and thought it a bit strange, but then i guess thats the point, that pirates arent supposed to build colonies as you would normally do, but get out and raid. Thats how i got my first ship, raid a few indians/burial grounds etc and get the treasure back, plus a bit of trading (seems weird i know). Also bought a load of horses to mount my swashbucklers and found i couldn't! I don't mind this, but is there anything in the pedia about this, to prevent other people doing the same.

I didnt use the church in my game as it seemed against the pirate ethos, but after Dale's post i will in my next game. In terms or Rebel Sentiment/Pirate Points and Crosses/Immigration, perhaps the production of Cigars/Rum could contribute to this? Afterall we all know there was nothing a Pirate loved more than having a few Rums and a Smoke! What better to entice wanna-be Pirates to join your Motley Crew?!

Got a few ships thoughts.

1. Maybe Merchantman should be renamed as "Barque"? Term "Merchantman" is too loose and it is usually applied to modern ships. I never heard anything about sailing vessel class called "Merchantman" outside Sid Meier's games.

2. Don't know about you, but I don't think that cloning of the same unit with different stats is a good idea. Caravel is stat-wise equal to Pirate Brig, and Carrack = Fluyt. How about these changes:

- Give Caravel to Pirates. Name it "Pirate Caravel" if you need another type of ship due to technical reasons.

- Carrack is good enough. But Fluyt? They were closer to Galleons than to Caravels. How about using it as a replacement for Merchantman, with +1 to Cargo Space OR with the same Cargo Space but with ability to carry gold?

- Brig was a nice all-purpose ship, both for war and trade, and game lacks this niche. Something like Strength 4, Movement 4, Cargo Space 3, +25% against Privateers and ability to attack.

3. Enter the Pinnace! Strength 2, Movement 6, Cargo Space 2, can't leave New World, can only be built in colonies. Nice local trading / scouting ship. If it's impossible to make it unable to leave local seas, that's still not bad, but price (which by default equals to Caravel) should become closer to Merchantman.

4. If someday research and technological improvement will became parts of this mod: enter the Schooner! Require advanced technologies, Strength 3, Movement 6, Cargo Space 3, can travel to Europe, very inefficient price. It's a luxury.

I believe that Colonization of a New World should have very good selection of ships, because naval battles and sea trade was extremely important during these times.

Got a few ships thoughts.

1. Maybe Merchantman should be renamed as "Barque"? Term "Merchantman" is too loose and it is usually applied to modern ships. I never heard anything about sailing vessel class called "Merchantman" outside Sid Meier's games.

2. Don't know about you, but I don't think that cloning of the same unit with different stats is a good idea. Caravel is stat-wise equal to Pirate Brig, and Carrack = Fluyt. How about these changes:

- Give Caravel to Pirates. Name it "Pirate Caravel" if you need another type of ship due to technical reasons.

- Carrack is good enough. But Fluyt? They were closer to Galleons than to Caravels. How about using it as a replacement for Merchantman, with +1 to Cargo Space OR with the same Cargo Space but with ability to carry gold?

- Brig was a nice all-purpose ship, both for war and trade, and game lacks this niche. Something like Strength 4, Movement 4, Cargo Space 3, +25% against Privateers and ability to attack.

Caravel is primarily a Spanish ship (some Portuguese too). Pirates never used caravels, prefering other ship types (like Brigs). The carrack and fluyt were inbetween caravels and galleons. They were an evolution over caravel but what is really "early galleons". The galleons in the game are more like the standard 40 gunners that were modelled on the late 1500's. Technically, the galleon was a warship, not a cargo vessel like the carrack and fluyt.

The "merchantman" is okay for me as it represents all the other assorted merchant ships that were used in the time by other nations.

3. Enter the Pinnace! Strength 2, Movement 6, Cargo Space 2, can't leave New World, can only be built in colonies. Nice local trading / scouting ship. If it's impossible to make it unable to leave local seas, that's still not bad, but price (which by default equals to Caravel) should become closer to Merchantman.

That's more like the coastal trader everyone's been requesting.

4. If someday research and technological improvement will became parts of this mod: enter the Schooner! Require advanced technologies, Strength 3, Movement 6, Cargo Space 3, can travel to Europe, very inefficient price. It's a luxury.

I believe that Colonization of a New World should have very good selection of ships, because naval battles and sea trade was extremely important during these times.

I would like to model technology differently, more like how it is handled in Imperialism 1.

Bartholomew Roberts is the second Pirates leader, so no good. :)

Maybe Drake?



The \XML\Texts\ folder is where all the text is stored. The files are labelled fairly logically to organise all the text required for the mod. :)

The Dread Pirate Roberts and Bartholomew Roberts are different people. Just thought I'd point that out.

Dread Pirate Roberts is a homage to Bart Roberts in The Princess Bride. He's fictional. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dread_Pirate_Roberts

Plus, using him as an easter egg is fairly done to death. :p

Dread Pirate Roberts is a homage to Bart Roberts in The Princess Bride. He's fictional. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dread_Pirate_Roberts

Plus, using him as an easter egg is fairly done to death. :p

No, I'm the Dread Pirate Roberts. And now you must die for knowing. :lol:

Sleep well, Dale. I'll likely kill you in the morning.

My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father, so prepare to die! :D

Great film!

Perhaps not the right thread and it may have been discussed earlier. I did try a game playing Pirates (v1.05). Some things strikes me as oddities

The main thing, Pirates are supposed to be hostile when moving about, this shows itself from Natives mostly attacking when walking by, fine by me, free experience which is frankly almost too easy to gain and to get invincible Swashbuckers isn't too hard.

European colonies on the other hand, mostly ignores my Swashbuckers, they move their colonist and parks them right beside my Swashbucker, easy xp when my turn comes around. I could disrupt the european powers expansion just by placing some Swashbuckers strategically in their land and then kill everything that walked by.

So main complaint here would be that European powers doesn't consider Pirate landtroops any threat to their colonists/pioneers unless war, though on some occasions, they would attack if they had soldiers that they figured stronger, but still, walking by a hostile with a colonist was far too common and european soldiers wouldn't have the xp to match the swashbuckers anyway.

On the seas it's the same story, get a Pirate Ship up a few levels, killing two caravels seems enough to gain a high enough level to kill everything that comes by without trouble. And the European AI seems to completely ignore to counter the threat with warships, thus it's very safe to sit around with some Pirate Ships and collect the plunder.

On another note, Pirates should be able to raid colonies as well IMHO, right now you can attack any troop/colonist/ship etc outside colonies, but if you decide you want to attack the settlement as Pirate, you need to declare war.

A raid function on a settlement would be nice, ie, Pirates can't capture another colony but they can raid it, capturing the goods within, perhaps destoying a random improvement in the process. This would be without declaring war. Quite possible it's too exploitable vs the AI and thus would greatly imbalance the game and perhaps hard to code. But as it is now it doesn't feel right that Pirates needs to declare war to "raid" a colony.

Overall, it was fun for a while to play as a Pirate, it got a bit teadious after a while as it was too easy, getting the required amount of plunder to win would've been no problem but I just didn't have the patience to wait around that long. Anyway, it's a fun improvement to the game, it just needs some more development.

As Dale said just a few days ago, he doesnt want pritates/privateers to be able to plunder a colony, as they would not just stand by.

As Dale said just a few days ago, he doesnt want pritates/privateers to be able to plunder a colony, as they would not just stand by.

If there were a way to flag pirate units as always at war with other nations, they might well try to attack ravaging pirate land units. As things stand, their strange territory-less neutral status leads to very odd situations, since pirate land units can move into or through player cities and territory, without being at war at all.

Cheers, --- Wheldrake

I captured a pirate colony, without a fight. the veteran (swashbuckler) was working as a colonish, I equipped him with muskets, and he became veteran soldier, I moved it to my colony and try to make it a dragoon, but couldnt do so.

Shouldnt this thing be handled that when such soldier is captured by europeans they can turn him into a dragoon?

Some observations, feedback and ideas on the Pirates:

- Can't attack a city without declaring war. Seems a bit odd as you can attack units without being as war.
- I've noticed extremely -ve results from Burial grounds with Pirates, with local tribes very regularly going to war with me. Also saw this when exploring them with Military units as a 'normal
nation.
- The natives relationship with pirates is very inconsistant. They will happily trade with you one turn, then randomly attack your units the next. I think that the natives/other nations should be unwilling to trade with you, certainly to start with.
- After a while all I get at the docks is prisoners, although there is the odd random SB/DH every so often.
- ATM the Pirate game seems a bit 'pointless' and dull after the initial novelty :(.
- It is very difficult to build up any decent cities, as you can have no experts, which makes the Industrial victory nigh on impossible to acheive. The Trade Victory is probably very acheivable, but feels a bit 'cheap' as most of the trade is selling spoils. Perhaps this should be got rid of and just leave the Plunder victory.
- Swashbuckler unit is pretty cool, but surely should start with the Amphibious promotion, or the one that allows to attack from a ship without penalty?

General thoughts/ideas:
I don't mind the lack of experts available to Pirates at the docks or through training, and the assosiated problems with city building, but i think this is certainly fair if it is balanced out with more powerful naval abilties - eg Promotions for SB, production bonus/cheaper prices for ships. I think someone mentioned a kind of FF for Pirates? These could give more ships etc.
Related the the point above, I think Pirates need to be made weaker on land and stronger on the sea.
Also i think the Pirates should be able to raid cites. This could be a way for them to capture experts and put them to work in their own cities, although at an adjusted rate (higher than a normal colonist, but less than a normal expert) obviously. I see Zuul posted that Dale was against this, but if the Pirates did raid a colony and capture a colonist, it could easily be won back by defeating the Pirate unit or the colonist itself if left unguarded. Obviously raids effectiveness would be affected by any Military units stationed in the colony.
Privateering - you could be hired by european nations to attack other particular european units for a fee.

I wrote a litte python snippet that delays the arrival of the pirates. :)

if (CyGame().getGameTurn() == 0):
if not gc.getPlayer(gc.getGame().getActivePlayer()).isPir ates():
iDelay = 50

for i in range(CyGame().countCivPlayersAlive()):
if gc.getPlayer(i).isPirates():
(unit, iter) = gc.getPlayer(i).firstUnit()

while (unit):
if (unit.getDomainType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString("DOMAIN_SEA")) and (not unit.isDelayedDeath()) and (not unit.getUnitTravelState == 2):
unit.setUnitTravelState( 2, false)
unit.setUnitTravelTimer(iDelay)

(unit, iter) = gc.getPlayer(i).nextUnit(iter)


I had this idea after making a recall button for outgoing ships in the Europe screen.
It works by sending all pirate ships to the 2nd travel_state (coming from europe) and setting their travel timer to 50 turns (iDelay). I placed it at the end of CvMainInterface.interfaceScreen() but i'm sure there is a better position for it (maybe as a event directly after game start). And there seems to be a problem if pirates share same start location with other players. It could happen the ship is already destroyed before changing the travel state, maybe :crazyeye:.

Probably better to put that in onGameTurn

Thank you Dale. I put it in CvEventManager.py (onGameStart) and it seems to work. :)

Makes sense really. Pirates wouldn't turn up until they were active trade lanes to loot.

Thank you Dale. I put it in CvEventManager.py (onGameStart) and it seems to work. :)

Sorry my mistake. I meant onBeginGameTurn (I just looked it up). onGameStart won't work well as it is only called once per game. You need to push all pirate ships generated over the time period which means you need it called each turn.

I would remove the if turn == 0 condition and change iDelay's setting. Make it iDelay == 50 - GC.getGame().getGameTurn() (or whatever that statement is). That means any pirate ships generated get pushed back till turn 50.

I was playing pirates today (awesome mod btw!) and I noticed a bug:

If any of your pirate ships ends its turn right next to one of your own colonies with a Fortress and cannons, the fortress is starting to fire at your ships, although it is also your fortress...

Seems to me that this is a problem with the "beeing able to attack without declaring war"-ability of the pirate ships.

Oh, and this 3 out of 4 times caused my game to crash until i figured out that this was the cause.

Edit:
There also seems to be a Problem when you move your Pirate Brig (which can´t attack) onto the tile as the ship of an (yet) unknown European (e.g. in the very begining). Sometimes the pirate brig takes the load of the ship and the pirate gets loot, just as if the europ. ship has been sunk, but it actually hasn´t, it has just moved 2 or 3 tiles further and looses all its cargo
Also happend to me once while playing dutch.

Schmiedemeister

you also have that issue


My Ships Attack by - My Own Fortress as Pirates
hi

I m using the latest patch AOD 1.05 by Dale
I try to play as Pirates
build fortress in my island
when my ships waiting to enter my settlement with fortress
My ships being fired by my Own fortress with cannons in it
Why should my own ships fired by my own fortress?

It says ships hit 12%
sunk etc

How to fix it?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=305323

Thanks for that bug report.

There also seems to be a Problem when you move your Pirate Brig (which can´t attack) onto the tile as the ship of an (yet) unknown European (e.g. in the very begining). Sometimes the pirate brig takes the load of the ship and the pirate gets loot, just as if the europ. ship has been sunk, but it actually hasn´t, it has just moved 2 or 3 tiles further and looses all its cargo
Also happend to me once while playing dutch.

heh, i noticed that too, but thought it was intended like that and was rather surprised and annoyed when i couldnt replicate it later. since my brig still had my colonists inside, the "captured" colonists were stranded in the middle of the ocean (walked the plank?).

I was just wondering if there is any reason for the pirate king to have a swashbuckler stationed in the middle of some maps, just doing nothing but blocking one tyle ?
My first guess would be that he is simply stupid, but that would be too senseless ;)

It would be fun if you got a huge treasure by defeating that unit, like it beeing the kings secret treasure keeper or sth like that