Here are the 4 different proposals. Discussion was held in this thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30147)

A closing will be set for the beginning of term 1, September 1st.

Proposal 1

Peace Time
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatikaflag.gif

War Time
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatikawar2cut.gif


Proposal 2

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/newflag2.jpg


Proposal 3

Peace Time
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/flag1.gif

War Time
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/flag2.gif


Proposal 4

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/germanimpflgalt5.gif

Octavian... that's not the Transparent one... it's the "White" cut out version.

could you, shaitan please replace the flag with the transparent one? it is only a cosmetic correction and it was discussed before, so i think it would maybe be ok?!?
i dont know.
so every1 who votes: the white triangle on the war flag is NOT there. it is transparent!

Originally posted by disorganizer
could you, shaitan please replace the flag with the transparent one? it is only a cosmetic correction and it was discussed before, so i think it would maybe be ok?!?
i dont know.
so every1 who votes: the white triangle on the war flag is NOT there. it is transparent!
I think replacing it would be fine. It's a representation of a flag with a cut out. A poor representation doesn't change the cut out. Octavian will need to change his post though. The one showing the cut out is fanatikawar2cut.gif:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatikawar2cut.gif

Must've gotten the wrong file in the img code. Sorry. The change has been made, but I don't think it'll make that big difference in the voting.

#1 has a monster lead. We'll need to save #3 though - that'll be an excellent suggestion for a switch in the industrial era.

@ Octavian - could you edit the poll post to add the poll close date?

I like proposal 1 in peace time but don't like the cut out so I dont know what to vote for. Cant we combine 2 different flags (eg. Proposal 1a with another flag)?

Shaitan, unless you added a closing date, there isn't one. I figure once discussion peters out, everybody will have had their say. I will set a tentative closing date for until the end of the month. Whichever is winning by them will be proclaimed the new flag.

Look in the constitution for bindng polls: 48 hours or quorum reached, whichever comes last ;-)
This is the standard i think.

This isn't official, per say, but more like an informational poll that will affect the entire democracy game.

48 hours is the minimum but the maximum can be whatever the pollsetter wishes. End of the month is perfectly legitimate (and a good closure date IMHO), just put it in the poll post so it's official and everyone can see it.

NONE!!! They all have elements that are VERY similar, if not identical, to Nazi German symbols. No offence to Octavian, but let's be more orginal, or better yet, wait until we haev a better idea of local terrain. National flags have meaning that are normally traced back to the countries origins.
If we MUST choose a flag now, not these. No Nazi elements!

Myarar, are you suggesting that the symbols of current, democratic Germany shouldn't be used. Yes, the Nazis did used these symbols, but that's no reason to reject these flags.

By the way, I only designed number 2. There is a link to the discussion that led to this poll.

Can someone please run a brief history post for Myatar and tell him of the origins of the Iron Cross?

The cross was the symbol used by the regular army. The nazi's used the swastika, a bastardization of a very old indo-european symbol. The cross was used since the time of the Teutonic Knights and continues to be used today. It is not a nazi symbol, it is just a recognizable symbol used by the same country.

In fact, the first time the Medal was initiated was in Prussia. The year was 1813 and was done by King Friedrich Wilheim III. This was during the The War of Liberation, which was during Napoleon's time. And that's just the medal. This does not include info on the symbol or icon or theory of the Iron Cross.

Here is a link: Iron Cross (http://www.theaerodrome.com/medals/germany/prussia/ic.html) :goodjob:

I hate the miss-conception that the Iron Cross is related to the Swastica... there's NO relation between the two except that they were both used by the Germans at points in their History to Represent their Nation or Government.

The Iron Cross is a National, Cultural Symobl.

The Swastica is a Political symbol... if any of these flags had a Swastica I WOULD be upset... but the Iron Cross is different.

The German Armed forces used it before WWII (ie. WWI), and use it now. If I'm not mistaken Germans now have an aversion to the Swastica (as most of the world) but they still use the Iron Cross as a National Symbol.

In Fact, Proposal 4 is an adaption of part of a WWI Naval Flag Design.

YaY!!! My flags are winning! :) :)

While I didn't know the Iron Cross was around so long before and after the war, I still oppose it b/c it was a badge of honor for Nazi troops, and the just the sight of it rouses anger in me, as if you couldn't tell by my last post. But I'll drop this arguement, which if you debated w/ me in the last game, you know doesn't happen much.

I still oppose all the flags b/c it's too soon and the German cultural elements in it. Why so unoriginal w/ putting actual German elements? Are we Germany or Fantika? Last I checked, we were the latter. While we're useing the Germans as our... tools to play the game, our nation is NOT Germany. A flag is a sign of national identification and our nation doesn't have any thing to identify with yet. To put it plainly, we really don't have an idenitty, so how can we have something to idenitfy us? While that may not make sense to anyone else, makes sense to me! ;)

I'm sorry I could take part in the original discussion, but I just think we should wait until at least after the first few turns and use something in our geographic area as an identifyer.

@Myartar - If you remember, my original suggestion had nothing to do with Germany.

myartat: if fact, it was already there from the 1600s if not even ealier. the crusadors used this symbol, and it was one of mayor symbols of the teutonic order in those days.
in fact, it is even more a religious symbol than a national cultural symbol, as it was derived from the christian cross.

give it up, i doubt he will accept that dis

no. i think he got it now ;-)
well if fact, there are many people thinking this way. im happy to clarify those things where i can!
(hey, most of the time the germans complain about nazi-symbols and things the most!)

That's true. My wife has zero tolerance for that stuff.

Three of them has an iron cross on it, the other one has this (I don't know what to call it) nazi kinda symbol on; they are all related to Germany in WWII; is there any other suggestions?

William528 - Please read back a few posts for explanations on the cross.

@shaitan post #24: me too >-)

Yeah, dis is right, knights and empires from around germany were using this cross long before the Nazi Party existed.
However, WHY do we have to have something german? We are not Germany, we are Fanatika!! We should be a different and unique culture

a-josh: see discussion thread. we took a civvish attribute (the army flag) with the civ-color (blue). we then wanted to add something representing the civilization we play, and thats why we decided to bring up the "german cross" for that (and i think it looks pretty good though).

call me AJ :)
I just think we should lifit the interference of German culture on Fanatikan culture as much as possible.
I do agree, however, that the flag looks pretty good!

im beginning to think i should remove the Iron Cross out of the flags, seems ive come across some strongly voiced opinions about it. Also is there a close date on this poll, im assuming its already passed quorum.

why? we clarified the things. there is only 1 counter voice left i believe. the poll clearly states support for the flags as they are.

if we want to change it, we need to change our government-form i believe (i think i read something about this in the rules).

Fionn - I believe the poll is set to run 'till the end of the month. We might still have time to run another poll, but I don't think it would be worth the time and trouble. It is a beautiful flag and if you disassociated the cross from the German culture, it still represents a strenth factor to the flag. Even if you view the cross as a hint of German culture in our flag, we are playing as a German civ, so I don't see a problem. You have done fine work here. We have taken your idea and run it up the flagpole, and people seem to be saluting. Thanks.

your welcome

i just dont want to be the hated flag maker :)

I wouldn't worry about that, Fionn. A whopping 34 of 37 have voted for the flags and all of them have a cross of some kind on them.

Fionn: Just see it as a sign for the crusadors ;-)
In fact, the real "german" cross is not bended on the sides, but straight ;-)

We can of course always have ongoing discussion to change it later on, but the poll result is very clear in favor of the flag.

@Fionn:
Since proposal A seems to make it:
Could you do the following:
a) make a war-flag with transparent cutout triangle
b) do both flags also as "fluttering" versions?
c) do both flags as 65 width avatar-versions? may need some fine-tuning there

if you finished them, you could upload them onto the file-upload feature and just post the 6 links here for reference ;-)
naming proposal for the files:
fanatika-peace.gif
fanatika-war.gif

with the addition -special for the "fluttering" and -avatar for the avatar version in front of the .gif.

<grumble> <grumble> Still haven't been able to look at the flags. Stupid Firewall at work is blocking almost all pictures from the upload file server: "Excessive bandwidth requirements" :( <grumble> <grumble>

Originally posted by Padma
<grumble> <grumble> Still haven't been able to look at the flags. Stupid Firewall at work is blocking almost all pictures from the upload file server: "Excessive bandwidth requirements" :( <grumble> <grumble>
Can you grab zip files?

Look at my avatar for a small version ;-)

Shouldnt be a prob

ok guys here you go, i even made the fluttering flags into avatars. Only 199 more before i can use it as my av :(

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatika_peace_fluttering.gif
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatika_peace_fluttering_sm.gif
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatika_peace_sm.gif
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatika_war_fluttering.gif
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatika_war_fluttering_sm.gif
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatika_war_sm.gif
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatikaflag.gif
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatikawar22.gif

here are the links
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatika_peace_fluttering.gif
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatika_peace_fluttering_sm.gif
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatika_peace_sm.gif
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatika_war_fluttering.gif
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatika_war_fluttering_sm.gif
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatika_war_sm.gif
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatikawar22.gif
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/fanatikaflag.gif
Enjoy Guys

Very nice, Mr McCumhall :)

Originally posted by Shaitan

Can you grab zip files? Yes, but I try to do that *sparingly*, as it is also somewhat frowned upon: "is that work-related?"

I tried to look at them from home, last night, but the site was down. :cry:

Maybe tonight. :)

Edit: Ahh, very nice looking, indeed! I love option #1 (as does almost everybody else, it seems. :D )

we maybs should put those links in one of the main-forum threads so we dont loose them! Thanks for my new avatar, fionn ;-)

i only miss the unfluttering big ones ;-)
just edit your post maybe.

i forgot to add those, ill make sure they are posted soon

all fixed

fly, peacetime flag of Fanatika, fly freely (and for brief periods of time)
then, get pulled down, with preperation, as the war flag is hoisted up by a well regulated milita, ready to take on those that dare chalange Fanatika.

i think the flags look great, no. 1 seems to be the one without question and i love it also, i agree that we should link it with the army colour in game and that since german is the basis of our civ we shuld accociate with it in some way, the iron cross is internationally know (historically, culturally etc etc, im not getting into a nazi debate, im neutral) and it is a sign of prestige, power and authority which would put our nation in good stead.