This thread is where I'll be keeping an updated changelog for the next version of AoD2. Please feel free to discuss the changes. :)

Changelog for 1.07:


NEW:
- Added some new songs
- Uneducated units can learn professions "on the job"

CHANGES:
- General balance changes:
* Stable produces 3 horse per colonist, ranch 6 horse per colonist
* Small score cheat for AI for new victories to make it fairer on the AI (based on difficulty level)
- Promotion / Trait changes:
* Disciplined trait also gives -50% equipment needed for dragoons.
* Co-operative trait now gives -50% equipment needed for pioneers.
* Canister Shot I, II & III gives +10%, +15% & +25% versus gunpowder units
* Minuteman III gives +30% settlement defense, +10% vs Melee units & +10% vs Gunpowder units
- Education changes:
* Education threshold does not increase. Static education costs throughout game.
* Education gold cost more static. Defined by education level.
* Multiple colonists can graduate each turn.
* Education buildings now define city's education level (schoolhouse level 1, college level 2, university level 3).
* Professions now have a minimum education level to learn. For example stateman requires level 3 building.
* Can only train specialists that exist in that city, and have the correct education level building.
* Profession chosen and paid for at start of education.
* Petty Criminal and Indentured Servant cannot be educated in either education buildings or tribes.
- Unit changes:
* Indentured Servant can no longer be a scout, dragoon or missionary.
* Petty Criminal can no longer be a dragoon or missionary.
* Indentured Servant and Petty Criminal become Free Colonists after 20 turns (gain their freedom).
* Frigate now starts with Navigation I.
* Free Colonist available in Europe for 750 gold
* Privateers, Pirate brig, and Pirate Ship start with Skirmisher I
- Founding Father changes:
* Pedro Alvarez Cabral switched positions in the Exploration FF tree with Jacques Marquette
* Washington Irving moved forwards to be the 3rd father in the Political FF tree
* Washington Irving gives +25% education in all settlements
* Sor Juana switched positions with Thomas Hooker in the Religion FF tree
* Sor Juana gives +1 cross per Town Hall, +2 crosses per church, +4 crosses per Cathedral
* Ethan Allen gives +2 Cannons and Mountaineer I & Ranger I for gunpowerder units
* William Penn gives +1 cross per Town Hall, free church all settlements
* Alexander von Humboldt gives +50% production of schools, colleges & universities
* Peter Minuit gives -50% price of Indian lands
* Pocahontas gives +2 Indian relations and 1 convert
* Chief Powhatan gives -20% price of Indian lands, as well as +50% Indian convert str, and +1 movement converts
* Hernando de Soto gives +100% production of Stables and Ranch, +1 Rancher
* Ben Franklin gives +4 soldiers, +4 cannons, +1 Frigate & +1 ship of the line
* William Brewster gives +25% production of churches and cathedrals, and -10% crosses required for immigration
- REF changes:
* MoWs no longer carry cargo
* All MoWs deploy to New World on DoI
* MoWs will not return to Europe
* The King receives free galleons to transport the REF
* Only need to kill all land units to win WoI

FIXES:
- Total Pirate Plunder wasn't calculating correctly for victories
- Added missing short text keys for Explorer (Xpl), Exporter (Xpo), and Seafarer (Sea) traits
- Pirate Soldier graphics fixed (thanks BioHazard).

- Trade with other European kingdoms.
- Contraband.

Capturing defeated Ships by Priviteer or Pirate Ship
Africa Slave trade
List of Goods wanted by natives

Scenarios like 7 Years of War or Independence?
Minimizing Culture Flipping of Natives
Lifting the Ban if I decline to the Kings Gold request
Intervention of Other European Powers if DOI

Alliance with Other European Powers

I'd love to see quests return to Col. I volunteer to do the text, if you hate writing!

Random events would be fun. Your master tobacconist at Fort Orange has discovered a better way to treat cigars; he now produces an additional +1 cigar per turn.

Happiness and Unhappiness! Trade goods, cigars, rum, and other such things could be consumed regularly, and moreso by large colonies. The items keep them happy. When they're happy, production is improved. When they're unhappy, production goes down.

The natives at village X are upset because one of the Chief's daughters ran away with a local merchant.

X - Who cares what those savages think? (-3 relation hit)
X - Have his daughter returned to him by force. ( + 1 relation gain, + 1 unhappy colonist)
X - [If missionary is present] Perhaps we can use this to sway more potential converts. ( Gain 1 - 2 converted natives, -5 relation hit. )

Having certain founding fathers could trigger random events; Ben Franklin could randomly improve the efficiency of a building. Cortez could discover El Dorado.

What happened to the Fountain of Youth and the Cities of Gold you used to be able to find? I'd love to see those make a comeback, even if they were very, very rare.

The ability to talk / trade with other Kings / European Countries would be interesting, especially if you could get foreign aid for the WoI, like when France helped the British colonies rebel.

Sailing to Europe from the west side of the map seems silly. Historically, how often was that done during this era? Why couldn't that be a trade route to China instead / as well?

American animals (from Jeckel).
Slaves (taking 1 food like in trade triangle).
African screen (can buy cheap slaves, other missions).

American animals (from Jeckel).
Slaves (taking 1 food like in trade triangle).
African screen (can buy cheap slaves, other missions).

Not so sure I want to put them in. They work well for the eastern colonies, but what about Russia and China (and any other western colonies that may make the cut)?

I'd prefer not to have Slaves in the game, unless there is a gameplay reason to include them.

What I liked in original Col and was disappointed to find here is... random violence.

ColII have more formal, Civilization-like stance on warfare. Either we are at peace (privateers are welcome to plunder), or we are at war. There are no semi-random outbreaks of indian hostility. Border clashes with minor casualties are impossible - if you attack this unit, you are at full conventional war with tribe / colonial state.

Would be nice to think somewhat in this direction.

Maybe then make an alternative home screen (europeans probably get a african screen).


Still animals should be high priority. Jeckel already made the mod and it should not be that hard to include it.

Domestic demand/Market for goods, so i can sell a certain percent of goods to my own colonies, which would really help when the tax rate is like 80% and the price of cigars has gone down to 1 :cry:

- European wars (King forces you into wars with other nations)

Requests or forces? Forces seems like it might be quite annoying. Will this effect the trade markets?

My thoughts:

More variation between buy and sell prices. It shouldn't be economical to buy tobacco, take it to the new world, convert in into cigars, then take it back. Where does Europe get the tobacco from in the first place?
Changes to immigration and population growth. Currently I think there are too many specialists available to hurry/randomly immigrate. While quite often you'll get boring colonists/criminals/servants it seems over 50% of the people wanting to come to the new world are specialists of some useful kind. I'd like to see much less - maybe 10%.
To counteract the above I would like to see schools doing a tad more. When you get population growth it would be nice if, if the settlement had a school/college/university there was a chance (based on the type) that the new colonist would be the same profession as a random specialist from the city. Say 15%/30%/50%. At the moment it annoys me slightly how I always seem to end up with one or two big cities, each with a college/university and a cathedral, and a load of smaller cities without anything much at all as I can train every profession needed in the big cities. I understand FF have been changed slightly, but this would make a use for that free schoolhouse in every city one, for example. Also - population growth has been sidelined massively by the increase immigration at the moment. This would make it a more viable way of getting new people.
A little more to do perhaps after independence. In the games I've played I find that as soon as I declare independence all production stops apart from guns and all my colonies turn to size 1 with loads of soldiers running about. Is it really a victory if most of my population is killed? Is there any point in having gold once you declare independence? It's not as if you can really do much with it. Having said this, I have no idea on what the victory condition would be moved to... maybe some measure of population/trade/industry recovery (75% of original 5 turn average for a 5 turn average?)? I suppose this might require trade being allowed with Europe once more if non-Monarchy after you win the war.
Random events/quests (like BtS) would be fun. At the moment all we have are the natives giving us very small amounts of raw goods.


About happiness/healthiness - while it'd be cool I think introducing a completely new game mechanic would increase the micromanagement in an already slightly over micromanagey game. Some sort of consumption of luxury goods could perhaps be used to give a % improvement similar to rebel sentiment - maybe luxury goods should be available to sell to the local population for very small amounts of income (and warehouse overfill would automatically go into this pile). I'm not very enthusiastic about this though.

Requests or forces? Forces seems like it might be quite annoying. Will this effect the trade markets?

My thoughts:

More variation between buy and sell prices. It shouldn't be economical to buy tobacco, take it to the new world, convert in into cigars, then take it back. Where does Europe get the tobacco from in the first place?
Changes to immigration and population growth. Currently I think there are too many specialists available to hurry/randomly immigrate. While quite often you'll get boring colonists/criminals/servants it seems over 50% of the people wanting to come to the new world are specialists of some useful kind. I'd like to see much less - maybe 10%.
To counteract the above I would like to see schools doing a tad more. When you get population growth it would be nice if, if the settlement had a school/college/university there was a chance (based on the type) that the new colonist would be the same profession as a random specialist from the city. Say 15%/30%/50%. At the moment it annoys me slightly how I always seem to end up with one or two big cities, each with a college/university and a cathedral, and a load of smaller cities without anything much at all as I can train every profession needed in the big cities. I understand FF have been changed slightly, but this would make a use for that free schoolhouse in every city one, for example. Also - population growth has been sidelined massively by the increase immigration at the moment. This would make it a more viable way of getting new people.
A little more to do perhaps after independence. In the games I've played I find that as soon as I declare independence all production stops apart from guns and all my colonies turn to size 1 with loads of soldiers running about. Is it really a victory if most of my population is killed? Is there any point in having gold once you declare independence? It's not as if you can really do much with it. Having said this, I have no idea on what the victory condition would be moved to... maybe some measure of population/trade/industry recovery (75% of original 5 turn average for a 5 turn average?)? I suppose this might require trade being allowed with Europe once more if non-Monarchy after you win the war.
Being able to move stuff in different units. If I have 150 tools and I want to transfer 50 I have to load up all 150, then unload 100. Maybe a right-click interface like gold in diplomacy or up/down arrows doing it round units of 10 (so if I load 67, and press '-' it goes to 60).
Random events/quests (like BtS) would be fun. At the moment all we have are the natives giving us very small amounts of raw goods.


About happiness/healthiness - while it'd be cool I think introducing a completely new game mechanic would increase the micromanagement in an already slightly over micromanagey game. Some sort of consumption of luxury goods could perhaps be used to give a % improvement similar to rebel sentiment - maybe luxury goods should be available to sell to the local population for very small amounts of income (and warehouse overfill would automatically go into this pile). I'm not very enthusiastic about this though.

You can already transport odd amounts of a certain good. So if you have your 150 tools and you just want to move 50 of them. Hold down the "shift" key when you drag that unit type into your ship or wagon train. Then pops up a display to enter the amount of the good you want in that thing. This function has been around since the orginial Col. Not sure if it was in the manual, but it is in the game as is.

You can already transport odd amounts of a certain good. So if you have your 150 tools and you just want to move 50 of them. Hold down the "shift" key when you drag that unit type into your ship or wagon train. Then pops up a display to enter the amount of the good you want in that thing. This function has been around since the orginial Col. Not sure if it was in the manual, but it is in the game as is.
Excellent. Thanks!

You can always trade with the other Colonial powers/Indians, but this is heavily micromanagement intensive, is there anything we can do to scale the micromanagement down, so that people will actually trade with the Indians(beyond the first 50 turns where you sell them guns) and the other powers.

I know these have been mentioned before but:

1.Improvements to the constitution (This thread is full of info:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=293716)

2. Euros helping out in the WoI (more info also in above thread)
3. Missions/Quests would be nice, especially as a way to suck up to foreign kings :)...

Not so sure I want to put them in. They work well for the eastern colonies, but what about Russia and China (and any other western colonies that may make the cut)?

This is a bit complicated and probably historically unacurate, and difficult to mod but how about...
For 'Eastern Colonies' there can be a Europe and an Africa screen and so the 'Triangle Trade' Concept with Slaves, etc.
For 'Westerns' there can also be two screens. Maybe a South East Asia Screen and an East Siberia screen or things like that... I dont know:crazyeye:.

JB

Edit: Found the URL of the thread!

Requests or forces? Forces seems like it might be quite annoying. Will this effect the trade markets?


If you're part of England, and the King of England DoWs Spain, you are at war with Spain. It's an order, not a request as you're a "loyal" servant of the Empire. :)

Basically, getting dragged into European politics.

Do you not get ordered to pay the King gold/pay higher takes? Both can be refused, but at a penalty. You should at least be able to declare independence if your sentiment is high enough.

Another thing I thought of - it would be nice to see a bit more liking between rebel sentiment and actions of the king. Currently there is a FF that increases liberty bell production with tax rate (right?) but it seems to me people would get pretty annoyed even without people telling them to be annoyed with a 80% tax rate.

Just writting to tell that a new Better AI is out, 0.50. Maybe it's useful use that version for Colonization.

My main suggestion would be the event system from Civ 4. This allows all sorts of events both domestic (floods wash out roads, rats eat food, good harvest, motherlode) and international (France and England go to war, Protestantism causes civil war - home port closed, but double Cross production) It also offers a talented mod-modder the opportunity to write "Path of History" events where significant events (e.g. Magellan's Voyage, Spanish Armada) can influence the New World by including events that occur at the appropriate time.

I also loaded up the original AoD from Civ 3 to see what ideas could be stolen from it. The main one - and this is pretty much a mod in and of itself - is a cultural victory for the natives. Seems like an interesting idea, seeing as you can play the pirates, but it would involve a lot of work.

There was a fairly extensive list of resources which could be considered: Coffee, Dyes (Indigo), Silk, Wines (from Chile and California, I guess), Rubber (for Aztec Ball Courts), Gems, Gold, Spice, Cacao, Whales (Whale Oil), Jade, Llamas, Guinea Pigs (Mesoamerican delicacy) and Exotic Birds.

The models for Unique Units could be stolen from Civ 4 to provide different tribes with different "brave" units. This can be further extended by giving each different Native Civ a slightly different advantage. e.g. Mobility Promotion for Jaguar Warrior.

Work Boats are a nifty and eminantly stealable idea. Sacrifice (or put to work) in a Fish / Clams / Whales tile to build Nets for a suitable bonus in that tile. This also gives Pirates something else to Pillage.

Plantations and potentially Windmills and Watermills could also be stolen from Civ 4. The former can be built at the same speed as a farm, but provide +2 Resource instead of +1 Resource, +1 Food. Windmills can increase food on hill tiles, no ideas as to Watermills as production.

Town buildings could include Wells, which, once built increases food yield by 10%.

The games San Juan and Puerto Rico might also provide a few ideas.

Whats the benefit/penalty, for accepting/refusing the kings request for gold.. i have always wondered..

Whats the benefit/penalty, for accepting/refusing the kings request for gold.. i have always wondered..

At the moment in AoD2 if you pay the King, the REF increase threshold is raised 1 point per 10 gold. This effectively puts more time between REF increases. Or, pay off the King, and you can ring more bells before a REF increase. :)

Thanks dale, i also noticed a new modifier "-1 you are a drain on my military resources."
nice touch if you made that :D

- European wars (King forces you into wars with other nations)
- King's fleets (request MoW's presence to protect you)

Dale,

I was wishing this was in the game to begin with. It would create uncertainty and force the human player to be ready to fight at any time instead of just when you’re ready to DoI. I think it’s interesting that you are the one to suggest this because I wasn’t sure if it was possible, especially the request King’s forces.

The Great Apple makes a good point that it might not be fun if you are forced into war. Realistically though, colonies at the time were forced into wars. Even if you are forced into a war it doesn’t mean you have to fight, but you might still be subject to attack by the nation you are at war with, so instead you can just sit and defend until the war is over.

I had this idea; perhaps once your king has declared war on another nation and you are forced into it the king could then specifically request that you attack one specific settlement or unit. You could then accept or decline the request. The penalty or reward could be related to the REF or something else perhaps. The penalty/reward could also be related to the Kings Forces request. Perhaps you can request help from the king in return for gold per turn over a certain number of turns depending on what you request. If you decline to accept the request to attack a settlement/unit then that gold per turn will increase and vice/versa.

This will add to the warfare element that should appeal to the conquerors that play.

The Great Apple also had some great ideas for schools and immigration.

Jimbrock and Jabie had some really good ideas too that I liked. Random events would add to the flavor. Dale if you plan on implementing something like this I can help with ideas at least (I’m not great with code although I understand it as a software tech).

I definitely would be into more resources if it doesn’t hurt game play.

Additional improvements would be interesting as well. I really liked the work boat idea (I think it would be neat if you could keep the workboat or maybe after 3 improvements it is consumed (wear and tear)). More stuff for pirates to plunder the better right.

- European wars (King forces you into wars with other nations)

...

Perhaps you can request help from the king in return for gold per turn over a certain number of turns depending on what you request.


Not sure if i'm imagining this or not, but i seem to remember in the original the king would request/order you to go to war with someone and supply you with a handful or veteran soldiers to do so. Can anyone confirm this? Either way i think that would be good. Go to war with some one and get some free military power, or decline and have to make your own.

So like a tax cut/ future tax cut withheld, if you manage to take the AIs largest colony (Jamestown for instance) If the King makes you goto war, otherwise most people will sit back and do nothing.

I also thought it would be interesting to have an option to sell your goods to the black market (pirates?) with a flat tax rate of 25%, and the 25% tax goes directly to the Pirates coffers, so although you would be making money, pirates would become stronger.

- Mouseover information for cargo in the colony view
It would be nice if hovering over a ships cargo in a colony port brought up information on the colonists on board (as per Europe screen). Is it possible to show the units profession and specialisation without having to disembark in the colony first? i.e. I arrive in a city and have 3 pioneers, one is a criminal, one is a free colonist and one is a carpenter, but I only want the carpenter to leave the ship and work in the city. In the city screen I presently have to get them all off the ship to see who is who!

- Display effects for indian land discount
When buying indian land is it possible to somehow see both the pre-discount and post-discount price? Text at present is "Your growing tribe is a threat to our way of life, but if you give us [NON-DISCOUNTED PRICE][ICON_GOLD], we will be tolerant. You are a shrewd negotiator [PLAYERNAME], we will accept %d1[ICON_GOLD]" I'm not 100% sure on what I want to see, but if it could reference to or mention a Founding Father or trait name, and what weight the discount was, I think that would add play value.

- Option to purchase a Free Colonist in Europe
Its been suggested a few times on the forums, and I guess it has some use late game if you haven't got enough soldiers. To prevent players who just want a colonist having to buy an ore miner and clear his speciality (I don't particularly see any need for adding servants or criminals). I guess a fair price would be around 750 gold

- Wild Indians roaming the land (Barbarian player)
I still want some savage indians somewhere in the game, if not from random raids and demands from your neighbours, can a barbarian nation be added (no leader, non playable)? A couple of indians wandering the map from the start of the game (call them Algonquins or any other native tribe which did not appear in the game), they have no villages, and are just a small number of braves wandering the map and attack European scouting parties and treasure trains. Adds a combat element to early scouting, and encourages the protection of treasure trains. If they could be scaled up for larger maps it would work nicely.

- Trade elsewhere in Europe/Pay to relieve a boycott
I miss the option to trade a good after it has been boycotted. If I cannot sail to a different European port (sail to another country and sell at a set import tax rate of 50%), I would like to be able to pay the king to remove a boycott of a certain trade good. As per col 1 - I would like the option to pay the king back a pre-set rate for him to allow a good to be re-traded (even if he wants to charge me a ridiculous amount).

In reading complaints on the main board, it's mentioned that, IRL there wasn't much of an army outside of militia and of that the use of mercenaries.

Would it be possible to include a Mercenary type, which could attack/defend, but either could not be put to work, or if they were put to work in a city, they would not lose their guns (no free guns!) and would suffer a penalty like the IS or PC.

It could be purchased relatively cheaply and the price wouldn't increase. It wouldn't be as good a Veteran Soldier and if possible would cost you some limited amount of gold per turn. If you can't pay, they'd disband.

I think this would enrich the middle and late games, as you could go to war, or defend yourself, without taking the hit from Veteran troops against your RS.

Dale: I've popped you a PM with a list of FF tweaks, below are some more suggestions for other in game features

===================
Gameplay / Promotion tweaks:

Canister Shot is a seriously pathetic promotion set (by far the worst value, as spending your XP specialising in this promotion tree actually gives less benefit than getting the generalised Veteran I/II/III promotions at present! ....
- Increase the Canister Shot I (+5% vs Gunpowder units), II (+10% vs Gunpowder units), & III (+15% vs Gunpowder units, requires General) promotions to add 5% more benefit to each of the first levels, with another +5% bonus with a general, giving new values of Canister Shot I (+10% vs Gunpowder units), II (+15% vs Gunpowder units), & III (+25% vs Gunpowder units, requires General)

Minuteman III gives a nonsensical +10% bonus vs. Melee units ....
- Change this from vs. Melee to vs. Gunpowder units, as per Grenadier III (I actually believe this was a data inputting error/typo at Firaxis when coding their design - why else would you need a bonus vs. melee units who can't attack, or vs. unarmed indians when your unit is already armed, combat hardened, in a colony, with at least 2 Minuteman defense promotions already earned!?!)

Looting improvements has very little value as a strategy when attacking an enemy, hence the looter promotion has very little value ....
- Firstly, add a small +10% vs. settlement attack to the promotion itself, adding an aggressive 'conquistador' element to potential 'Looters'.
- Secondly, double the base gold recouped from pillaging the farm/lodge/mine improvements (so they yield 10 gold on average, up from 5, so that on average Looting with the Looter promotion will actually recoup the cost of building the improvement itself). This will mean including XML/Terrain/CIV4ImprovementInfos.xml

===================
Buildings tweaks:

The city defense buildings are now underpriced IMO ....
- Cities can now be held and fortified effectively, Cannons can now fire at passing ships from a Fortress, the structures seem more valueable buildings. I'd start by upping the base hammer costs by a third, from Stockade 30 hammers to 40 hammers, Fort from 90 hammers +50 tools, to 120 hammers +50 tools, and Fortress from 270 hammers +100 tools, to 360 hammers +100 tools. I can also see as the AI and natives become tougher there being a greater need to look at these structures.

Horse 'mass production' is still inefficient ....
- Even with the added 'natural reproduction', this is still not cost effective and works out easier to buy horses in Europe. Whilst stables and Ranches now have value in that they can help to 'pay for themselves', I still find breeding to a large extent is not an option, mainly due to the inherent high strategic cost in breeding (-ve food).
So, on top of the 'natural breeding' now in game, I'd consider adding a +25% horses yield with a Stables, and a +50% horses yield with a Ranch. This would allow a colony (must still have a LOT OF food to use 3 Ranchers!) to specialise and produce horses at a higher rate, with the maximum possible production per turn increased from 39/turn (costing 30 food) to 52/turn (costing 30 food). CALCULATIONS - (from 3 Masters in a Ranch at present producing (8 horses * 3 ranchers + 2 natural breeding) = 26, with +50% sentiment = 39 per turn, total food cost being (24 horses + 3 Ranchers) 30). (With +50% horses from Ranch, from 3 Masters in a Ranch producing (8 horses * 3 ranchers + 2 natural breeding) = 26, with +50% from ranch and +50% sentiment = 52 per turn, total food cost being (24 horses + 3 Ranchers) 30)

At the moment in AoD2 if you pay the King, the REF increase threshold is raised 1 point per 10 gold. This effectively puts more time between REF increases. Or, pay off the King, and you can ring more bells before a REF increase. :)

Good to know how that works. So does that equate as you can produce 1 extra bell per 10 gold paid before the REF gets increased?

Am I right in thinking then that the strategy of spending al your money, so the kings demands are for less cash results in a lower effect of delaying REF increases?

Good to know how that works. So does that equate as you can produce 1 extra bell per 10 gold paid before the REF gets increased?

Am I right in thinking then that the strategy of spending al your money, so the kings demands are for less cash results in a lower effect of delaying REF increases?

Correct on all accounts. You can ring a bell per 10 gold paid to the King. And the strategy of running near zero reduces the effectiveness of paying off the King.

So it's sort of like an incentive to run big and pay off the King to keep him happy. Just one of the tiny things which add up with many others to make a large empire better than a tiny one. :)

One minor change that should be made is that converted natives, indentured servants and petty criminals, shoudn't be able to fund a new settlement, I don't see too much logic on that.

Horse 'mass production' is still inefficient ....

Were there horses in North America prior to the arrival of the Europeans? I know in the South they thought that the conquistadors and their mounts were one animal, but did the American Indians have horses at all. If so, this could always be made a resource on the map. The artwork for horses and pastures could be stolen from Civ IV. This might alleviate some of the horse breeding issues.

Were there horses in North America prior to the arrival of the Europeans?

No, of course there weren't, not in historic times. But very quickly after the arrival of the Spanish, wild horse herds developed in the great plains of North America. So the answer to the question really depends on *which* Europeans you're talking about the arrival of.

IMHO, horses are far too cheap for purchase in Europe. At the start of the game, you *need* fairly cheap horses in order to get your explorers out there. But I would like to see the price quickly rise after around turn 50 or so, or else, as others have noted, there is no incentive to grow your own.

Cheers, --- Wheldrake

No, of course there weren't, not in historic times. But very quickly after the arrival of the Spanish, wild horse herds developed in the great plains of North America. So the answer to the question really depends on *which* Europeans you're talking about the arrival of.

IMHO, horses are far too cheap for purchase in Europe. At the start of the game, you *need* fairly cheap horses in order to get your explorers out there. But I would like to see the price quickly rise after around turn 50 or so, or else, as others have noted, there is no incentive to grow your own.

Cheers, --- Wheldrake

Difficult to make the economy work like that without horses quickly taking off and becoming extortionate... Though I guess you could set a cap at say 8 / 10, and make them very vulnerable to fluctuations.

Is it possibe to make everybody start the game with at least one scout on the docks? That would help to alleviate some of this horse lack early game - also gives people the option to not scout, and use the scout horses to build a stables.

Dale:
I have a thought. The portuguese trait which reduces Horse requirement for scouts. I think it should also reduce (this sounds strange!) the horse requirement for buildings (stables/ranch) by -50%. Basically, as above, to allow the player to park a scout in a colony and use his horses to establish a stables.

I have a bad experience, I played a game before where I mistakenly had all my horses in one colony early game, and I had one scout out on patrol. The king wanted to hike my taxes 5%, and not realising this was ALL my horses and that I wouldn't be able to get any more from Europe, I threw all my horses in the sea! :( In this instance, I was able to bring back my scout and work hard at getting horse breeding working, but if I had only got 25 horses (i.e. Portugal) I wouldn't have been able to found a stable

I've been having an issue lately with 2 aspects of game play, and I'm not sure if it's core gameplay, or just my playstyle.

First - it's nearly impossible to have any kind of early military action. By early, I mean before about turn 75. The reason - I can't afford to buy many guns or troops, and I haven't been able to get my stable/armory up and running effectively that early.

Possible consideration - make the prices for guns and horses much lower to start, but escalate quickly.

Second - It seems as though a single war with the Indians will put me completely out of the running for DOI against the other Europeans very quickly, no matter what stage in the game it happens. This is particularly annoying in the later game, and it pushes me towards avoiding war at all costs else the other European nations will declare, which at a very minimum puts a 100 turn cap on the game ending.

Wonder buildings. Something else to build that makes a city unique and specialized. I figure it requires putting the global code for cuilding class back in.

While I might not add wonders, I will add specializations to cities in my More Buildings Mod in next version.

I've been having an issue lately with 2 aspects of game play, and I'm not sure if it's core gameplay, or just my playstyle.

First - it's nearly impossible to have any kind of early military action. By early, I mean before about turn 75. The reason - I can't afford to buy many guns or troops, and I haven't been able to get my stable/armory up and running effectively that early.

Yes, given the high cost of guns, it's very difficult to get an early military force in place. Which is a good thing, IMHO, or else it would be too easy to overrun the other colonial powers.

In fact, I find it very difficult to get enough defenders in place quickly enough to dissuade the natives from declaring war, or to defend my colonies if they do - even if I always buy land from the natives instead of stelaing it, and even if I'm playing the French, who supposedly have an advantage in this regard. I have found I need to get busy building tools and guns very very quickly, it has to take priority over all other forms of production.

Again, I think this is good. It makes the game more challenging. I would advise against reducing the costs of guns purchased in Europe at all. And although you need relatively cheap horses in the beginning to be able to make scouts, perhaps their cost should be raised a bit, say to around 1000, instead of the current 600-700 range.

Cheers, --- Wheldrake

One thing I would like to see is a better system for declaring independence. Once the large colony becomes the best way to defeat REF then I think it would be fun if the requirements for DoI were that at least half of your cities having between 50 and 75 percent rebel sentiment. Once you DoI then the cities that don’t have the 50 percent automatically fall under REF control, then of course you could take back your cities.

I envision getting to the late part of the game having 13 or 14 colonies and you are to the point were you need to declare independence but only 7 or 8 of your colonies have more then 50 RS. You then have to make preparations to lose 5 or 6 of your cities and plan to take them back. The REF then could use the loyal colonies as stage points to attack the rebels.

Perhaps if the REF had cities to start with then they wouldn’t need to be so powerful.

An additional idea might be to create some kind of supply system. Meaning your troops need food and supplies when they are not in cities and after a number of turns without supplies their strength decreases. This could simulate an affect similar to Washington and his troops struggle for survival at Valley Forge. This would also force the REF to seek a base city to have; if the rebels could force the REF out of the cities then victory would be much easier.

The supply system opens up a new possible unit promotion as well, ie Ability to last longer without supplies and live off the land. Of course the REF should not be able to gain this ability.

I think Native American nations should be more easily offended and harder to gain as allies. This would allow important benefits of having Native American allies be more meaningful, ie their assistance in wars, the ability to resupply in their villages, better trade relations and trainable promotions such as the ability to live off the land and medical 1.

I think the native sellprices for ressources need some adjustment. It is pretty always a no-brainer to buy Furs for from them (as they always sell it for around 1,5 Gold per unit), but why should I buy Tobacco or Cotton from them? They charge between 4-6 p.U., so growing those ressoruces yourself seems to be better. Sugar has a similar price, but since marshes are more rarely, those additional sugar is sometimes needed.

Some interface suggestions (some are already posted in the general thread, sorry for repetition):

- Don't ask me if I want to declare war on a foreign nation, if I land a unit on a plot with their unit on it. If I want war, I'll start it myself, thanks.

- In the city resource screen, when I drag a colonist there, don't ask me what resource I want to produce, just autodecide for me to do the most effective resource. If I want a specific resource, I'll double-click and select it myself.

- Could it be made possible to allow the player to put colonists in a colony even if it has a deficit in food. It's annoying that I have to allocate enough colonists in the colony to food production, then enter the new colonist, then allocate people back to what they were doing before.

- Allow ships in transit to Europe to turn back to Europe after having started the voyage to the New World before they arrive there.

- Allow double-click on colonists in the garrison box and show possible professions.

- Show all possible professions in the double-click-on-colonist menu in the colony (for colonists working resources), not just the production professions and the current. If my colonist is working lumber, I want to be able to let him choose ore in another field in the double-click menu. Like when you double-click on a guy who's doing some production.

- Add an option in game setup to not allow pirates in the random selection of players.

- Could it be made possible to allow the player to put colonists in a colony even if it has a deficit in food. It's annoying that I have to allocate enough colonists in the colony to food production, then enter the new colonist, then allocate people back to what they were doing before.

I'm not sure how the mechanic works at the moment, but there is all sorts of exploit potential in here which could allow work to be done with no food cost by adding colonists well over the food capabilites of the settlement. There may be other solutions, but the only one I have off the top of my head is to increase the pushishment for starvation.

PLANTATIONS

Not sure why colonizations assumes tobacco, cotton, and sugar are so naturally plentiful. I'd rather see that your pioneer (or a cotton/tobacco/sugar planter) has to build a plantation improvement on a tile in order to get these resources.

you could just take the plantation improvement from civ4 too

To elaborate on the random hostile indians idea.

If you dont have good standing with natives, they should randomly raid you settlement to steal stuff or even burn down improvments.
You would have to attack the indian village to have it stop.

The European Kings demanding you attack settlements of other europeans and if you fail to take the settlement raise taxes and REF.

Have the other europeans use pirates more or attack with ships when at war.
I had no real sea battles until declaration of independance.

Add back in the Fountain of Youth discovered event.

I'm not sure how the mechanic works at the moment, but there is all sorts of exploit potential in here which could allow work to be done with no food cost by adding colonists well over the food capabilites of the settlement. There may be other solutions, but the only one I have off the top of my head is to increase the pushishment for starvation.I think you already can manually allocate more food to be eaten than what is present. And the game handles that fine, by sending colonists outside the city.

Aye, but do the colonists get to work first? I don't have a copy of the source with me so can't check. If so by clever rearranging you could create a similar effect at the moment, though it wouldn't be so bad.

Aye, but do the colonists get to work first? I don't have a copy of the source with me so can't check. If so by clever rearranging you could create a similar effect at the moment, though it wouldn't be so bad.Indeed it is possible to cheat this way. You can overuse food all you want, the colonists will just be sent outside the colony, but they will have produced what they were doing. You just have to send them back in each round. This oughta get fixed.

How about selling letters of Marquis?

Provides you with a privateer that attacks other nations but not your own but is ai controlled.

How about selling letters of Marquis?

Provides you with a privateer that attacks other nations but not your own but is ai controlled.

Perhaps a better idea would be to provide a privateer, but he has to return all goods captured to europe and pays a much higher tax rate, so he's kind of on loan. After a certain time he becomes completely yours.

Alternatively, weren't LoM given against a particular country? So anything captured off that country could be sold at no/lower tax in europe.

Personally i hate microing privateers, and when i leave them on sentry they do not awake when other ships pass them, so i just do not bother..
Automating them may not be a bad idea.

The ability to select just part of a cargo when trading. As it is, if you have 200 guns on a ship you must put all of them up for trade. If a tribe has 400g they will probably offer all of it for however many guns you offer for sale. If you have to put up 200 guns, that's 2g per gun; if you could put up only 50 guns, that's 8g per gun and a good deal for you. Plus you can sell the rest somewhere else. This is a sorely lacking feature.

Privateers capture, rather than sink, ships. After capture you could load up their cargos and have the option of letting them go or sinking them (or even reflag them?).

The ability to select just part of a cargo when trading. As it is, if you have 200 guns on a ship you must put all of them up for trade. If a tribe has 400g they will probably offer all of it for however many guns you offer for sale. If you have to put up 200 guns, that's 2g per gun; if you could put up only 50 guns, that's 8g per gun and a good deal for you. Plus you can sell the rest somewhere else. This is a sorely lacking feature.
I agree - I've never quite understood this limitation.
Privateers capture, rather than sink, ships. After capture you could load up their cargos and have the option of letting them go or sinking them (or even reflag them?).
This is a tricky one. Historically privateers wouldn't aim to sink enemy transport vessels, but instead aim to force them to surrender. A prize crew would then be put aboard and the captured ship sailed back to a home port.
I'd imagine a game mechanic would work so that a captured ship would either automatically jump back to home port, or move under privateer flags until it reached a home port. WRT combat I'd imagine if the privateer found itself being outgunned by a Galleon it would have quite a high probability of escaping... and if it showed signs of running I doubt many merchant ships would take the chance of destroying the privateer.

Those mechanics I've just suggested buff privateers quite a lot. Withdrawal chance + capturing ships => very good. I suppose this could be counteracted by implementing prize money - where you would have to pay to get hold of the captured ship + cargo.

To be honest I can see naval combat as something that could be greatly expanded without adding too much complexity to the game. Another thought is some sort of "prevailing wind". Sailing into the wind would cost twice as many movement points, while sailing behind the wind would cost half. A westerly would slow ships coming from Europe, and speed ships going to Europe. Every turn the wind could swing or stay the same direction. It'd remove a bit of the predictability I feel colonization has a bit too much of atm... and could add a bit of excitement into otherwise fairly dull naval stuff.

- More Indian chieftans - everytime you go to trade with an Indian village you speak to the relative leader, even though you can only trade with the village itself. This just seems weird to me. Could a random generic LH be created by the game for each individual village, with the main Chief as the LH for the capital and the direct diplomacy screen?
- When you build Printing Press or Newspapers you get updates (in the Trade Advisor presumably) on the prices other nations will pay for goods, to give more of a market feel.
- Change/remove some texts - eg when you move to a square with a foreign unit on it and you don't wish to go to war (Let me reconsider), or when you capture a unit (says unit has been destroyed, then says unit has been captured). Obviously I can (and have done) change this on my own pc, but would be nice to have them in the 'unofficial official' patch.
- Random events aren't random. This was the same in Civ4 and bugs the hell out of me. Can you fix this?
- Pioneers should use/deplete their tools as they build improvements.
- Can you activate the Enter Button when shift-moving goods to transports in the city screen. It's annoying as hell typing in a number to move then having to click ok! :@

That is all for now. I did make some other points in other threads so wont repeat them here.

- additional Hud button 'switch to city screen'

Thanks Dale,

at the moment I have only one wish, don't know if this is possible to do.

But it would be great, if we could get an additional hud button in the main screen, so that we can easely switch to the city mangement screen without weird searching and clicking on the city tile in the main game screen. That would be nice.

I would like to play as the natives. I know this is already possible by changing the XML, but right now, they're very boring to play with. Also, how about a conquest victory, which can be achieved by destroying all natives and europeans.

I wonder why Converted Natives can't become soldiers. I know this is a Vanilla WAD, but really I wonder why not. Natives were skilled warriors, so I don't understand why CN can't use muskets becoming soldiers (or dragoons with horses) in the late-game, just before DoI, for example.
Could one of the late FFs grant them such ability? Could they become soldiers through educational buildings, if a GG or veteran soldier is in the settlement for example?
This could enforce the 'missions' founding and preserving strategy.

You can educate them to farmers or smth, and then make them dragoons.

You can educate them to farmers or smth, and then make them dragoons.

How to? AoD2 doesn't allow to improve them in a native village, am I right? Can I send them to school in a settlement? I never tried this before.... :confused:

How to? AoD2 doesn't allow to improve them in a native village, am I right? Can I send them to school in a settlement? I never tried this before.... :confused:

AFAIK, converted natives will never change. I haven't tried putting them in schools, but even if you could, it would probably take too long for it to be worth it. I always end up shuffling them to the smaller cities in my outskirts, and then moving them on to new smaller cities as soon as master farmers or planters become available.

No, AoD2 doesn't permit changing their professions in native villages, and you can't arm them with guns, so even if they could fight (never tried) they would be inferior to true soldiers. There is a founding father that increases their strength, but I've never taken him as I never saw the point of having them fight. In my games, they just churn out food, or sometimes sugar or cotton.

Cheers, --- Wheldrake

Yes you can teach them in schools (and by working a long time in a proffesion as of latest AoD2).

Thanks WhelDrake and Zuul
Yes, now I realize that I can teach CNs in schools, but it take too long to be worth it. Working a long time in a profession is a better choice.

Because this is a AoD2 1.07 suggestions thread, I renew my proposal to give CNs a chance to embrace muskets, in some way, in the late game (immediately after DoI or as late-FFs bonus)

Thanks WhelDrake and Zuul
Yes, now I realize that I can teach CNs in schools, but it take too long to be worth it. Working a long time in a profession is a better choice.

Because this is a AoD2 1.07 suggestions thread, I renew my proposal to give CNs a chance to embrace muskets, in some way, in the late game (immediately after DoI or as late-FFs bonus)

I like to keep natives working in the outdoors where they get a bonus. BUT they are definately teachable - just build a better establishment!

stick one in a college/university and that -1 education makes not one jot of difference to graduation time.

Is there any way to show that a cargo hold is full? i.e. a small 'x' or transparent graphic when a treasure or a wagon train is on board a galleon ....

-----------------

Oh, and another change to add to my wish list :)

+10% Withdrawal chance added to Privateers, Pirate brig, and Pirate Ship

Speaking of pirate brigs, it seems very strange to me to have a pirate ship that cannot launch attacks on other ships at all. I would favor making it able to launch attacks, but giving it a lesser strength.

The best thing concerning pirates would be to make them arrive later in the game, say from about turn 60 or so. I'd also like to see a few random events that spawn new pirate ships for a limited period of time.

Cheers, --- Wheldrake

don't think theres anything that can be done with this - but its a bit daft reading the duplicated text when you get

"You destroyed a Pirate Pirate Ship!" :p

I've started working on 1.07. Check the first post of this thread for the changelog. :)

Will you use a new song for the main menu? I really don't like that civ 4 medieval song you have now.

No. The main menu is very much medieval Europe. You start there. The new songs are colonial American.

on the job learning sounds brill - roughly how long does it take to train a person? you tested it out yet? :) really looking forward to seeing it working!

I've compiled a wishlist of XML changes I'd like from 1.06:

GENERAL

- Added +10% Withdrawal chance to Privateers, Pirate brig, and Pirate Ship
- Added missing short text keys for Explorer (Xpl), Exporter (Xpo), and Seafarer (Sea) traits
- Added option to purchase a Free Colonist in Europe for 750 gold
- Veteran soldiers to have +25% settlement str (attack & defense)
- Portugal's national trait to be -50% horses required for scouts, plus the Explorer II promotions to mounted units, plus -50% horse requirement for buildings
- Stockade/Fort/Fortress buildings upped in base hammer costs by a 1/3, Stockade 30 hammers to 40 hammers, Fort from 90 hammers +50 tools, to 120 hammers +50 tools, and Fortress from 270 hammers +100 tools, to 360 hammers +100 tools
- Added a +25% overall horses yield with a Stables, and a +50% overall horses yield with a Ranch
- Increased the Canister Shot I, II, & III promotions to add 5% more benefit to each of the first levels, with another +5% bonus with a general, giving new values of Canister Shot I (+10% vs Gunpowder units), II (+15% vs Gunpowder units), & III (+25% vs Gunpowder units, requires General)
- Changed the Minuteman III benefit from +10% str vs. Melee to +10% str vs. Gunpowder units
- Added +10% attack str vs. settlement to the Looter promotion
- Doubled the base gold (average +5 to average +10) recouped from pillaging the farm/lodge/mine improvements

FATHERS

- Pedro Alvarez Cabral switched positions in the Exploration FF tree with Jacques Marquette
- Washington Irving moved forwards to be the 3rd father in the Political FF tree
- Sor Juana switched positions with Thomas Hooker in the Religion FF tree
- Ethan Allen now gives additional +2 Cannons, plus the ranger I & mountaineer I promotions for gunpowder units
- William Penn now gives +1 cross per Town Hall, free church all settlements
- Sor Juana now gives +2 crosses/church, +4 crosses/Cathedral
- Washington Irving now gives +25% education in all settlements
- Alexander von Humboldt now gives +50% production of colleges & universities, plus +25% education in all settlements
- Peter Minuit now gives -50% price of Indian lands
- Pocahontas now gives +2 Indian relations, +1 convert (no longer gives -10% price of Indian lands)
- Chief Powhatan now gives -20% price of Indian lands, as well as +50% Indian convert str, and +1 movement converts
- Hernando de Soto now gives +100% production of Stables and Ranch, +1 Rancher
- Ben Franklin now gives +1 Frigate instead of +1 Galleon (as well as +4 soldiers, +4 cannons, +1 ship of the line)
- William Brewster now gives +25% production of churches and cathedrals, and -10% crosses required for immigration

on the job learning sounds brill - roughly how long does it take to train a person? you tested it out yet? :) really looking forward to seeing it working!

Still being fine-tuned at this point, but it goes something like this:

1. IF unit counter > 100 upgrade the unit to the specialist.
2. IF the unit is in a city and it is processing something (must have an input and output), then increase the counter by random(5).
3. IF the unit is in the fields and is collecting something, then increase the counter by random(5).
4. IF the unit is an outside job and outside a colony, then increase the counter by random(5).

So effectively, min 20 / max 100 turns.

Military will not upgrade via this method. I have not implemented upgrade via combat for them either.

Still being fine-tuned at this point, but it goes something like this:

1. IF unit counter > 100 upgrade the unit to the specialist.
2. IF the unit is in a city and it is processing something (must have an input and output), then increase the counter by random(5).
3. IF the unit is in the fields and is collecting something, then increase the counter by random(5).
4. IF the unit is an outside job and outside a colony, then increase the counter by random(5).

Will this be affected by things like presence of experts in colony/direct contact with unit, level of building worked in, tile improvements in tiled worked on etc?

Will this be affected by things like presence of experts in colony/direct contact with unit, level of building worked in, tile improvements in tiled worked on etc?

No need to make something nice and simple so complex. :)

Updated first post with the education changes up to now. :)

Updated first post with the education changes up to now. :)

I definitely agree on these changes on education. I also think that the cost to buy specialists in Europe should increase over time. During mid game, I always find easier to buy farmers and fishermen in Europe instead of training new-born colonists in schools or indian villages, which doesn't seem right to me. Also, it doesn't make sense that the price of a fisherman is always 800 when rushing a colonist may cost over 2000.

One more thing. I think it's right that you can accelerate buildings with money, but this way I never bother to bring tools in the city when required. It's easier to pay some cash. Maybe the ability to accelerate buildings should be made possible only when you have the required wood and tools, or the cost should be way higher, so that the option becomes viable only for emergencies (es. build a fort when you have enemies at your door).

I agree with the changes too, those changes will address one of the big flaws of the game in my opinion.

Still being fine-tuned at this point, but it goes something like this:

1. IF unit counter > 100 upgrade the unit to the specialist.
2. IF the unit is in a city and it is processing something (must have an input and output), then increase the counter by random(5).
3. IF the unit is in the fields and is collecting something, then increase the counter by random(5).
4. IF the unit is an outside job and outside a colony, then increase the counter by random(5).

So effectively, min 20 / max 100 turns.

Military will not upgrade via this method. I have not implemented upgrade via combat for them either.

Am I reading the first post correctly then ...

- Is the education progress displayed in the same way as standard education - does it still use education points or is it a new variable which is profession-specific?

- For the on-the-job education to work do you have to have the prerequisite level of education building?

- Is there still a graduation fee for this learning?

- Is there still a graduation fee for actual students in an education building?

jenks, the two types of education are completely seperate.

To educate in school/college/uni you pay the fee(in progress), choose a major (in progress), wait a few turns, and voila you have a trained expert in that field.

If you leave a free colonist in a profession for a long time they will eventually become a master through experience. No fee, no schooling, but a looooooooooooong wait.

If you leave a free colonist in a profession for a long time they will eventually become a master through experience. No fee, no schooling, but a looooooooooooong wait.

Would it be also true for a native convert? This feature may be useful for professions like fur trapper, sugar planter ecc. in case there's no village to train your colonists. I usually use native converts in these professions (they are better than free colonists) and it would make sense if they will eventually become specialists.

jenks, the two types of education are completely seperate.

To educate in school/college/uni you pay the fee(in progress), choose a major (in progress), wait a few turns, and voila you have a trained expert in that field.

If you leave a free colonist in a profession for a long time they will eventually become a master through experience. No fee, no schooling, but a looooooooooooong wait.

I see ... more questions on that then!

- does the profession have to be stayed in for all the period or does it allow for work-breaks (i.e. fisherman for 30 turns, statesman for 1, back to fisherman)?

- is the on-the-job education progress (i.e. counter up to the 100 education exp required to 'graduate') displayed on a mouseover as per standard education? Can you see how much longer they have to work in the field?

- is there still a penalty for servants/criminals/converts for this type of learning? do criminals still become servants first before specialising?

- my Math teaches me that on average rand (5) produces 3, so that means on average a citizen will learn on the job in 33.3 turns? Is this correct and is it scaled for game length?

I see ... more questions on that then!

- does the profession have to be stayed in for all the period or does it allow for work-breaks (i.e. fisherman for 30 turns, statesman for 1, back to fisherman)?

- is the on-the-job education progress (i.e. counter up to the 100 education exp required to 'graduate') displayed on a mouseover as per standard education? Can you see how much longer they have to work in the field?

- is there still a penalty for servants/criminals/converts for this type of learning? do criminals still become servants first before specialising?

- my Math teaches me that on average rand (5) produces 3, so that means on average a citizen will learn on the job in 33.3 turns? Is this correct and is it scaled for game length?

1. Yes, a change resets it.
2. Its not displayed (like Col1).
3. They are treated differently.
4. About that yeah. Not scaled, not sure I want to either.

First a question. I downloaded patchmod, 1.07 and started a game with the mod. The game requires a restart to use the 1.07 mod to start, but none of the changes take effect, so its like a vanilla COL game. What am I doing wrong with the mod?
Another question – is the chance for gaining a converted native impacted by what kind of missionary established the mission? If not, seems like it should be, as well as impacted on how many colonists were trained a skill there and amount of trade to that village.

I haven’t downloaded Age of Discovery yet, that is next on my list after I finish my current game and see if I can beat the REF (in my first game I did fine at colony building, but couldn’t beat the large REF by the time the game ended. I guess I thumbed my nose at the king too much, and my much loved customs house is no longer in the game.

I’m looking forward to Age of Discovery, here is my two cents on revisions/improvements to Colonization/Age of Discovery.
Some items I like have already been mentioned.
European wars cause war in new world – should come with a couple units to fight it though, possibly at reduced cost, or reduce cost of buying ships, regulars, and cannons in Europe during the war.
I like on the job learning for colonists farming, trapping, etc.
Being able to adjust commodity on your ship/wagon to sell to Indians or other Europeans in the new world.
I like galleons carrying more treasure, since the treasure is so reduced. A way to adjust this may be for treasure taking up one transport space for every 1000 of value, so treasure under or equal to 1000 takes up 1 space, 1001-2000 takes up two transport spaces, etc. I’d also like to see Inca and Aztec villages give up more treasure when they are pillaged. Not much value in even bothering with pillaging now.
When Indians leave their village due to European cultural influence, they should also give a converted native, as some Indians adopt European ways.
Ability to shoot at enemy ships or bombard them from forts/fortresses with cannons.
I would like to be able to fortify cannons in my colonies.
I would like to be able to abandon a colony.
FF promotions should go to both soldiers and dragoons. Seems silly that the looter or settlement attack bonus only go to dismounted soldiers and not dragoons. Shouldn’t matter if a dragoon has a defensive promotion since a dragoon doesn’t get any defense bonuses.
Ship movement values are too low. Water was the best way to move people and goods during this era. To avoid ships moving right past enemy ships, you could make ships capable of attacking also have a “zone of control” that would force non combat ships to completely avoid them vs. just sail right past them. Also, make it easy to build roads adjacent to rivers, 1 turn for an expert pioneer and 2 turns for a regular colonist pioneer. I would also make a road adjacent to a river be 1/3 or ¼ movement cost. Being able to move quickly along rivers I think is historically accurate. Since the rivers are along the sides of squares and not in the square, the river road can be a high speed transportation artery.
I would like some way to provide more of a defense against the REF – losing 7 units to a REF amphibious invasion while only destroying 1 REF unit is a bit excessive I think, especially when the colony was a fortress, barely reduced, and the units had minuteman promotion. Whole concept of sucking the REF into a colony then destroying them with cannon fire seems a bit odd, although controlling the high ground did work to chase the Redcoats out of Boston.
Conceptually, there should be some way to address putting the nation in arms after DOI, as well as money being worthless after DOI. Currently, the game gives more a feel of Ethiopia mobilizing against the Italians than the War of Independence. Some thoughts: give victory points each turn for specialists who are working their specialty – Elder statesmen being elder statesmen the whole time vs. waiting for an end game push for liberty bells as an example, and keeping specialists working after DOI. For money use after DOI, maybe you can pay to upgrade colonists into regulars, hire European mercs, or even hire Indian mercs. For the Europeans and friendly Indians, there can be one time cost as well as per turn maintenance.
Some way to replicate slavery. I understand the reluctance with current political correctness, but it was reality for that time period. Slaves could be one step better than converted natives working the land, especially if the land has a farm or mine improvement, but still not quite as good as a specialist cotton planter, trapper, etc. Slaves should be either not allowed or worse working buildings except for stables/ranches. Slaves should not be able to move alone (must link and move with a soldier) nor allowed to start a colony, nor be able to learn skills from Indians. You could also require a colony with slaves to maintain a soldier outside the colony, to replicate the overhead with maintaining slavery. Allow no more slaves, criminals, or converted natives working in a colony than other colonists. Allow slaves to be educated at same rate as converted natives. When DOI, if the constitution declares no slavery, only add indentured servants to colonies with no slaves, and any colonies with slaves have the slaves disappear with no added indentured servants. This replicates friction with previous masters accepting the slaves as citizens. If slavery is kept after DOI, have the slaves increase their productivity equal to specialists (farmers, cotton and tobacco planters, etc). Slaves could become available in Europe based on trade, not crosses, and/or available for purchase cheaper than an ore miner. If you object to slavery, you put slaves that show up into your schools (turn them into Frederick Douglass Statesmen), and you don’t buy them as units from Europe.

1. Yes, a change resets it.
2. Its not displayed (like Col1).
3. They are treated differently.
4. About that yeah. Not scaled, not sure I want to either.

Im in agreement on 1, 2, & 4, though I think servants/converts/criminals may now be more valuable as resource gatherers if they don't have penalties / are forced to educate via a free colonist first.

Maybe thats not a bad thing ...

Either way, can't wait to see it working :)

I'm not entirely happy with changing profession resetting the counter. I don't want to have to remember how long each of my colonists have been working on a certain improvement for. It sounds like something that'd just end up being annoying.

Given that this is useful game mechanic that can be exploited (ie. no native villages training the skill) forcing a player to keep track of which colonist has worked where and for how long without a useful interface seems to imply that better play can be acheived by memorizing. This does not make for a fun game. You should be able to save the game and pick it up again in half a year and be able to play on as if you had not stopped from the information given to you. You should also be able to judge which colonist to move around for extra resource generation in an emergency without having to remember which had been working a square for longer.

IMO it should either have an interface counter, not be reset on job change, or just be a fixed percentage chance per turn, regardless of time spent (like Civ 4 and finding resources). Implementing it the way you are suggesting would be both annoying and frustrating.

TGA:

It's works in exactly the same way as Col1, which is what I wanted. If you moved a colonist to a different profession, then it reset.

Also, to keep track of the time spent by each colonist in each profession will require a fairly chunky array for every unit. Too much RAM usage for such a small thing IMHO.

It's works in exactly the same way as Col1, which is what I wanted. If you moved a colonist to a different profession, then it reset.Just because it worked like that in Col1 doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Also, to keep track of the time spent by each colonist in each profession will require a fairly chunky array for every unit. Too much RAM usage for such a small thing IMHO.
I would have thought you could cover all units at the late stages with under 50KB. 0.01% of the min system requirements. (That'll cover 20 unsigned 16 bit ints on 1280 units).

My main argument is that you're aren't introducing a "oooh that's nice - a free specialist" feature, you're introducing a "which of my two trappers has been working for longer" feature.

I'm not entirely happy with changing profession resetting the counter. I don't want to have to remember how long each of my colonists have been working on a certain improvement for. It sounds like something that'd just end up being annoying.

Given that this is useful game mechanic that can be exploited (ie. no native villages training the skill) forcing a player to keep track of which colonist has worked where and for how long without a useful interface seems to imply that better play can be acheived by memorizing. This does not make for a fun game. You should be able to save the game and pick it up again in half a year and be able to play on as if you had not stopped from the information given to you. You should also be able to judge which colonist to move around for extra resource generation in an emergency without having to remember which had been working a square for longer.

IMO it should either have an interface counter, not be reset on job change, or just be a fixed percentage chance per turn, regardless of time spent (like Civ 4 and finding resources). Implementing it the way you are suggesting would be both annoying and frustrating.

TGA:

It's works in exactly the same way as Col1, which is what I wanted. If you moved a colonist to a different profession, then it reset.

Also, to keep track of the time spent by each colonist in each profession will require a fairly chunky array for every unit. Too much RAM usage for such a small thing IMHO.

Just because it worked like that in Col1 doesn't mean it's a good idea.


I would have thought you could cover all units at the late stages with under 50KB. 0.01% of the min system requirements. (That'll cover 20 unsigned 16 bit ints on 1280 units).

My main argument is that you're aren't introducing a "oooh that's nice - a free specialist" feature, you're introducing a "which of my two trappers has been working for longer" feature.

Tbh a feature where it takes avg 30 turns for the colonist to learn a profession, but you cant tell other than remembering how many turns he has completed and it is reset as soon as you move him, isnt worth having imo. I dont think it will get used all that much as having to leave the same colonist on the same tile for upto 100 turns is implausible.

What if you are attacked and an enemy unit moves into that square on turn 99? All that time wasted, and your colonist all of a sudden forgets everything he's learnt? If it takes up too much ram in someones pc then i would suggest the problem is the amount of ram they have, not the feature itself.

I'll throw in with Dale on the learning colonist. Yes, agree with the frustration of not knowing how long he's been on the job learning, do I move him, etc.
However, I played alot of original COL, and it worked just fine. I'd put 1-2 colonists working as a fur trapper/tobacco planter, etc, then like manna from heaven, one or both would become an expert. I don't think it's a bad thing to bring back something from the original game that was a nice benefit. If criminals and indentured servants can jump straight to experts by working the land, then even nicer.

I don't disagree that colonisits should become specialists from working the land - I just disagree with the details of the suggested implementation.

I think Dale should implement it as it was in col1, and if it turns out to be sucky, he can fix it in version 1.08.

Here is another recommendation.
It would be good to have escalating problems with the natives before they go all out DoW. COL1 had small raids, stealing, etc. Before the entire Indian Nation DoWs you, there should be indicators your heading for trouble, demands for $$, goods, or even dismantling a colony (if that feature gets included).

I just had Sitting Bull DoW me, I thought I was doing OK with keeping trade relations open and establishing missions. Anyway, very inconvenient to have to protect and punish, but also distracts from independence prep, and my plan to be generous with the constitution to get some help with the REF I guess is over.

Updated changelog. Education finished.

About 'learning professions on job' i think a mouse over showing the 'chance percentage' of becoming specialist would be great. The percentage should obviously increase with each turn. Like 1 turn working on collecting sugar would grant 1 percent chance of becoming an expert sugar planter which should increase with each turn.

Do the 'learning professions on the job' would work with production too or only for collecting raw materials ??
Do the 'learning profession on the job' would work for CN, PC or IS?

About 'learning professions on job' i think a mouse over showing the 'chance percentage' of becoming specialist would be great. The percentage should obviously increase with each turn. Like 1 turn working on collecting sugar would grant 1 percent chance of becoming an expert sugar planter which should increase with each turn.

Do the 'learning professions on the job' would work with production too or only for collecting raw materials ??
Do the 'learning profession on the job' would work for CN, PC or IS?

See, Hear - http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=305462, and the o.p.

* Petty Criminal and Indentured Servant cannot be educated in either education buildings or tribes.


Isn't this a fairly significant change? I'm fairly new to C4C but as far as I know, that means those two units can really only found new colonies or be turned into soldiers? And aren't soldiers who start out from servants and criminals weaker then those converted from free colonists? I can see an argument for not being able to use them in school, kinda, but not in tribes? I guess I'm wondering what the thinking is behind this since it really cheap and effective to send those units to local tribes for specialized training. Or, to put it another way, I might frame the argument that there should remain one avenue of upgrade for these units, be it a nearby tribe or the town's education system. Just my 2 cents.

Isn't this a fairly significant change? I'm fairly new to C4C but as far as I know, that means those two units can really only found new colonies or be turned into soldiers? And aren't soldiers who start out from servants and criminals weaker then those converted from free colonists? I can see an argument for not being able to use them in school, kinda, but not in tribes? I guess I'm wondering what the thinking is behind this since it really cheap and effective to send those units to local tribes for specialized training. Or, to put it another way, I might frame the argument that there should remain one avenue of upgrade for these units, be it a nearby tribe or the town's education system. Just my 2 cents.

* Indentured Servant and Petty Criminal become Free Colonists after 20 turns (gain their freedom).

* Indentured Servant and Petty Criminal become Free Colonists after 20 turns (gain their freedom).

Aha! Missed that, thanks Dale! Keep up the great work!

And aren't soldiers who start out from servants and criminals weaker then those converted from free colonists?

Although you can make this argument, currently in the game all non-veteran soldiers and dragoons have the same value in combat, and acquire advancements at the same rate.

And don't forget Gibson's "The Patriot", when he went into the swamp tavern filled with criminals. His French pal asked "Is this the sort of men we need?"

Gibson answered "This is exactly the sort of men we need!" And you might argue that criminals would make better (if more ruthless) soldiers than ordinary colonists. IMHO the level of abstraction in the game is such that there is no need to gimp servants and petty criminals further.

Cheers, --- Wheldrake

And during World War 2

Japan uses prisoners from Taiwan/ Korea/ Manchuria to invade Philippines and rest of Asia

Perhaps we could use the experince system for non armed colonists to show how long it will take them to become experts?

Perhaps we could use the experince system for non armed colonists to show how long it will take them to become experts?

The way the game is set up, they don't become "experts" as such, but advance in promotions through combat. The only way for them to become the equivalent of veteran soldiers is to allocate a great general to one of them.

IMHO it would be a bad idea to add more ways to have a greater number of veteran soldiers. If vets were plentiful, they would lose their "coolness" factor.

Cheers, --- Wheldrake

I get the idea of limiting professions to force criminals and servants to 'earn' their freedom, and I think I like it. Can't wait to see it in action....

How come a criminal can become a scout where an indentured servant can't? Is that a typo in the changelog?

The new promotion system takes getting used to, but I'm OK with using the Civ IV bonuses vs. progression from criminal to indentured servant, to colonist to veteran. I like the idea of criminals and indentured servants working to become regular colonists over time, more realistic to the time period vs. putting them in school or sending them to Indians.

For me, the biggest problem the new COL has is ignoring nation building after DOI. There should be incentive to keep producing goods, making a viable economy after DOI and not just turn the entire population into soldiers.

What was a shock was getting units killed in the new COL. Used to lose horses, then lose guns, then get captured. Combat system is much more lethal than the old.

I think more things i would like to be added to AoD mod is:

1: The abililty to purchase a seasoned scout from europe. should be obviously high priced.

2: Remove the training of season scout from indian villages which i think is never used. By the time you know who is offering the training and getting a spare colonist to that village, all of the new world is already discovered. instead

3: Add the chance of like 10% for a untrained new colonist on first contact with a village to become season scout.

4: More villages should need finished goods like rum, cigars and cloths instead of only guns and horses. They should also pay a good amount for that finished goods. Should be random goods for random villages. This should help the players to trade with the native, who like me feels that the AoD killed the trade system with native.

5: The ability to attack pirates and pirate city without declaring war. (I don't want the negative attitude from natives for razing pirate city or even from other Europeans).

can we get an estimated time for the next update of THIS GREAT MOD.

3: Add the chance of like 10% for a untrained new colonist on first contact with a village to become season scout.


This already happens in 1.06, which was a nice surprise :) Not sure what the chances of it happening are, or how its worked out, but i sent two free colonists out on horses and they both got turned into seas scout when speaking to various chiefs :)

This already happens in 1.06, which was a nice surprise :) Not sure what the chances of it happening are, or how its worked out, but i sent two free colonists out on horses and they both got turned into seas scout when speaking to various chiefs :)

Actually it doesn't work quite like that, but great guess. :)

If a colonist (scout) finds a tribe that trains SS he will automatically train at the tribe to become a SS. ;) This sets him back a couple of turns, but the training more than makes up for it.

Something very weird in civ4col I just noticed is that when you are playing as the dutch, and you click one of your units, sometimes he says: "Deze militair meldt zich!" ("This soldier reports!"). However, not only their soldiers say this, but their pioneers and colonists as well.

Changelist updated with the latest changes. :)

Sorry for the delay in this update. Between new son, the heatwave and the bushfires the last month and a half has been very hectic. :)

REF changes have been listed on the changelist. :)

Something very weird in civ4col I just noticed is that when you are playing as the dutch, and you click one of your units, sometimes he says: "Deze militair meldt zich!" ("This soldier reports!"). However, not only their soldiers say this, but their pioneers and colonists as well.

Here's something weirder. Take the same soldier and educate him as an expert sugar planter. Then make sure he's not armed. :eek:

I think more things i would like to be added to

5: The ability to attack pirates and pirate city without declaring war. (I don't want the negative attitude from natives for razing pirate city or even from other Europeans).

I agree.

Maybe destroying an pirate city even could bring positive attidude from all europeans? On the other hand just taking over a pirate city and claim it for your empire may be an different thing.... Not sure if the files will allow this.

Aye ^. The diplomacy for pirates need to be reworked.

The whole Pirate concept needs to be re-worked, not just Pirate diplomacy and combat. :)

Though don't expect that soon. I've got 1.07 ready (just doing some testing) and 1.08 will introduce my new politics system. Maybe after that? :lol:

Here's one of the new songs:

http://rtw.apolyton.net/files/AoD2_Intro.mp3

And of course, everyone's favourite the Fisher's Hornpipe! But THIS ONE is the REAL tune! :D

http://rtw.apolyton.net/files/AOD01.mp3

Some comments.. but I'm still a newb to C4C, so im not sure about some things here.

1. It seems to me the economic victory is (to?) easy to reach for the Dutch. Im playing on Marathon and 40.000 "total goods traded" seems not that hard to get.

2. In each of my AOD2 games, one of the European AI is rushing thrugh the FF line in the early 1600s. Every 4 Years another FF joins the same Nation. (Not sure if this is AOD specific, I love playing sloooow [= Marathon] and I'm only playing AOD, no Vanilla.)

Edit: Sorry, I missplaced my coment... I'm still on 1.06