Here it is, people. The opening thread for the C3C Democracy Game. It's been a long hard battle to get this far, but we made it. The Revival of the C3C Democracy Game is in session. What say we get the ball rollin'?

There are plenty of veterans reading this and a lot of new faces also. We will rent this thread space here in the DG4 forum until the game is ready to begin. When we're ready for Creation Day, we may be moved over to the Civ3 Forum. I'm sure we'll be able to handle that when the time comes.

So post below with all your ideas and questions. We welcome all comments. As we have been repeatedly asked to remove our discussions from the Civ4 threads, maybe we should state that this thread is only for Civilization III Democracy Game discussions. And that we are aware this thread is in the Civ4 Democracy Game Forum. If you would like to play in a Civ3 Democracy Game, please only post here (for now) and don't bother those players in the Civ4 thread.

If you are new with questions, go ahead and ask. We have lots of veterans to give you answers and tons of reference material. If you're an old DG player like me, who likes to reminisce about the old days.... what was I saying?

Welcome everyone. Let's put this thing together.

I won't party (yet) because we've got to get a bit organized ...

So - any initial thoughts to the game type? Regular game, 5CC, etc? Special game rules? I'm not talking about map size, etc, but what type of game do we want to play?

Also, what kind of government do we want to have? Think broad concepts, not as much the nitty-gritty details here.

--Ravensfire

Personally, I'd like to see a traditional game to bring us back.

Only one tribe. Within that tribe, would be one central government that would not change it's primary structure from begining to end. Based on CivIII, there would be a Cabinet of real players who feflected the Advisors in the game - Domestic, Foreign Affairs, Trade, etc. There would also be a President - the primary player in the game. And then all the other citizens who in this Democracy would represent the Will of the People (WOTP). Everyone votes on issues and concerns of any type, if they would like.

There would be a governing ruleset that is normally called the Constitution. The Constitution would be the check on power abuse or wrong doings of any type. The Constitution could be ammended, through proper channels and with the WOTP.

Was that what you were looking for?

For now, we can discuss both pending games in the same place. There should be no need to worry about cross-contamination between the Civ3 and Civ4 startups, and people interested in both games can have one stop shopping. There isn't really a good alternative place yet to do the Civ3 planning, and we shouldn't ask for forums until the game is almost ready to start.

What type of game:
I did enjoy the 5CC game concept - it was smaller in scope for us to manage, without going nuts. Having a large game gets difficult to manage, and tiresome for the DP. It might be interesting to do something small where we're not going to pull off a military victory, don't have secure borders and have to worry about the AI. We'd need to fix some of the holes that we had in the rules though ...

Really though, I would prefer a game that's smaller in scope, whether through map size or meta-rules. I'm not sure about any mods, although I'd be up for considering some!

What type of government:
While it's going to be somewhat based on the type of game, I think we should use a more traditional based format versus the faction format. I've just got a bad taste left in my mouth from the previous DG. Keep it flexible and appropriate to the number of player we've got.

-- Ravensfire

I'd like it to be an ordinary game, with everything on the table. DG7's implementation of 5BC putting it in the constitution really irked me. There is no reason we can't exercise restraint within a framework that lets it grow to the player base.

I'd suggest looking at DG4 and DG5 for a starting point for the rules. Both of those fixed DG3's problem with too little definition while keeping a fairly ordinary setup. DG6 was clearly too complicated to use again. DG7 might also work if we stripped out the gameplay restrictions and kept the rules to strictly metagame.

Hmmm. I'm going to have to go back to the Civilization III Archives (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=133). Let me run through these rulesets you're speaking of.

Game Type
I'm game for anything. I like 5CC's personally, but I know many didn't like it when we tried. I think we should avoid huge or large maps to remove stress on the DP in the later game.

Government Type
I am personally still a fan of the traditional government idea. Basically we have a President and a cabinet full of advisers. We should also have a 3 person judiciary and perhaps a senate full of governors?

One trick is to balance the power between the people and elected officials, which we can never seem to get right. If the people have too much power, nobody wants to be elected because they just become pollers. If the officials have too much power then the game loses its 'Democracy' feel and people become uninterested if they don't hold office. An idea I have for this is to make the entire population the legislative branch (congress, parliament, or whatever you want to call it) and allow them to create laws (i.e. a specific poll) which the executive branch has to follow, otherwise the executive branch does what it wants. These laws are pretty much what was used previous just with a name, for example: the legislature (people) create a law directing the domestic adviser (or whoever has similar responsibilities) to build City A at location X. If there are no laws relating to the subject then whoever holds the corresponding position in the executive branch has power to do whatever. Like if there are no 'laws' concerning trade, the trade minister (or whoever has that sort of power) posts his/her plans for what should be traded as binding instructions. I think this could also provide for some nice roleplay, but I'm starting to get long winded on this point so onto my next idea.

The one idea I like from recent demogames that wasn't used in older games was the idea of a Designated Player pool. Instead of having the President play all saves we get a list of people with majority approval that take turns playing. The one negative, however, with this plan is the lack of accountability. I mean sure you can CC/PI or remove the DP from the pool but that just means they won't play another save, which depending on the size of the pool they may not have again anyway. If you have the President (or cabinet member) play the save they can lose their executive position if they screw up.

Well, I went through the Archives. Got side-tracked a few times, but mainly read Constitutions.

I did enjoy the Civ3 DG VII Constitution (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3127121&postcount=2). Very well written and pretty much covered everything. Glad that thing got finalized.

I would vote for that now, as opposed to DG2. I'm not really opposed to a 5bcc game (whatever you want to call it). I was opposed to the way the rules were interpreted in the begining of the last one. I hope that Ravensfire remembers that the last 5bcc lasted 9 months. ;)

I like the epic games, but i'm open to anything. Something short to get back into the swing of things is fine.

I think I'd prefer a traditional game, but without going for an enormous map, keep it to a reasonable size so we don't get too bogged down in city management - I still have memories of silly length turnchats. I did enjoy the 5CC, but feel no need to repeat it. It wouldn't stop me playing if that's what people wanted though.

I'd prefer a more traditional style govenment for this game.

Black Hole raised the issue of DP pools. Having the president always play the save meant the president could be held accountable not just for the actions taken while playing but also for keeping the game moving. The DP pool seemed to leave the game to ramble on, getting played when people remembered or when someone stepped in to play having got fed up of waiting. Perhaps we could have the President responsible for playing the save and scheduling the sessions but able to delegate to another player if they can't play. In such cases the president would be responsible for ensuring the schedule was maintained and be held accountable for what was done.

Constitution: Lets not get too complicated, I can't remember what they were like and don't have the time to read up now, but a lot of effort went into the DGVII one, learning from others that had been too restrictive or at the opposite end of the scale had been too undefined.

I lean more towards regular game style and Traditional (ie. DG 1 w/ improvements) government style.

edit: I believe most of the Civ III demogames were basically this style.

Problem with the regular game style is people may be split between the Civ 3 and Civ 4 Demogames... and the Civ 3 DG may not have the Governor/Mayoral pool to help make management of such a large empire very effective. But we could play as normal and then agree to limit our size later if it starts to get out of hand. And if we do find ourselves with a large amount of participation we may want to just go ahead with the larger empire.

More Cities -> More provinces -> More Governors/Mayors -> more opportunity to participate in official capacity.

I tend to lean away from the DP Pool idea and back to the President w/ CoC (Chain of Command) style DP Pool where President always plays the save and officials only play in case of absence.

I agree with the accountability aspect.

President plays or delegates, with the Chain of Command used in case of unexplained absence. But the President is always held accountable for the actions taken in a Turn Session, among other things (such as the consistant progress of the game).

The original intent :old: of the DP pool was to have the President schedule all turnchats, with the power to designate anyone from the DP pool as the DP for each session. Later games saw IMO an excessive reliance on turn taking in the DP pool and the President's job got watered down. There were many terms where we had people who wanted to be President but not DP, and many elected officials who didn't even have the game. An alternative to the CoC was sorely needed.

Just to throw something out w/ regards to the (in)famous Will of the People clause...

Basically, tell official they should to "seek the will of the people through discussions and/or polls". Add something that major decisions should be verified through a poll. If a decision isn't backed by a poll, anyone can post a 2 day poll to override it.

For provinces, allow the President to set the boundaries and change as needed. A majority of governors can veto this decision though, as can a citizens poll.

I know one of the complaints is that officials poll every small decision, and that they need more power. But, we've all seen that go a bit too far in some people's hands, so this is an attempt to draw a line in the middle.

Still pondering older rulesets. I know I don't want the DG2 monstrosity, but also don't want some of the hyper-legal stuff we've had in the past.

The DP pool was created for two types of players that I think still exist - want to be President/ other elected official, but can't play the save, and wants to play the save, but doesn't want to be an elected official. In the attempt to be fair and not play favorites, the rotation was established. I don't think we can try a split - Pres plays, but can pass off to Pool as needed. If we've got a Pres that does play all the time, the Pool that term wouldn't be used and might not appreciate it. Maybe set a tiered CoC? Pres schedules and plays, but can also delegate to any willing citizen as needed. If scheduled player doesn't show, allow any elected official to take it. If no elected official, allow any citizen to take it.

Random thoughts - sorry. Vicodin good ....

-- Ravensfire

-- Ravensfire

I caution though, with a President assigned DP... If the President assigns DP's at will that could also lead to favoritism...

Traditional style definately. Also, I like the idea of DP pools, and the idea that the officials and the WOTP have equal power. Anything is fine with me, though. What's 5CC or 5BC or 5BCC (And is there any such thing a 5 BB?

5CC - Five City Challenge (Restricting yourself to only 5 Cities and refusing to expand beyond that)

Honesty not sure about 5BCC or what not... but I imagine it's some varient on that same idea...

5CC - Five City Challenge (Restricting yourself to only 5 Cities and refusing to expand beyond that)

Honesty not sure about 5BCC or what not... but I imagine it's some varient on that same idea...

That was the compromise in DG VII - 5 Built cities, plus 1 captured city from each civ.

-- Ravensfire

I caution though, with a President assigned DP... If the President assigns DP's at will that could also lead to favoritism...
We've actually had worse problems with willing DPs being blackballed by vendetta than we've had with Presidential favoritism.

We've actually had worse problems with willing DPs being blackballed by vendetta than we've had with Presidential favoritism.

Yup - lost our best DP in years that way. :mad:
We've had people that have proved to be less than satisfactory as a DP, and refuse to change. If that person is the President, it could get interesting.

So how about this - the President schedules the game session. If they can, they play they save. If they can't, they can delegate someone to play the save. If the scheduled player doesn't start reasonably on time (15 minutes?), any elected official can take over as the DP. If no elected official takes over (15 more minutes?), and citizen may take over.

Starting the session (including taking over) would be defined as a "got it!" post in the instruction thread, allowing for both on-line and off-line sessions.

-- Ravensfire

:) Basically what I said in post 12? The "got it" post is very good. Estabishes a time stamp. The Chain of Command would be used in determining which elected official had priority.

:) Basically what I said in post 12? The "got it" post is very good. Estabishes a time stamp. The Chain of Command would be used in determining which elected official had priority.
Yup!

Honestly though, I wouldn't worry about the CoC. If multiple officials want it, let them figure it out.

-- Ravensfire

So, what do all those letters mean besides 5 city challenge?

DP - Designated Player. The player designated to play the current save.

CoC - Chain of Command. 1. President, 2. Domestic Advisor, 3. Miitary Advisor, etc.

Don't worry about the 5bc or 5cc. Means the same thing.

Others?

As for I, I'd like to see the return of the classical traditional game, no variants (IE no 5CC or 1CC). For the presidency, separate the DP role and have it as a separate system of a pool of willing individuals (elected or appointed by the president) to play the role of DP. That way the president does not have to face any heat from any mistakes he or she made during the game play.

I must be one of the few handful of Civ3DG vets still around.

I will tag along for this DG.

That way the president does not have to face any heat from any mistakes he or she made during the game play.
We need to have some responsibility...

We need to have some responsibility...
Why should the president take the heat for a mistake that a DP has made!? Idealy, provided we are going with the DPs playing the save elected by the people in previous DGs, it should be the DP to take the heat for a mistake that he or she made during their turnplay.

To add in, people aren't that forgiving in these games and would hold a grudge against the official and decreacing his or her chances in future elections.

CivGeneral, if you don't want to play the save (or can't), don't play the save. If you want to be President, then run for office. But if you become President, you will be held responsible for bad decisions made during your administration. You will be held accountable for by game play by your DPs during your administration. The President is the Leader of the nation. The President is where the buck stops. I'm sure you're aware of this. Please stop trying to mold this scenario into one where you can be "Teflon Ron". It's not going to work. No guts, no glory.

Cyc, I am fully aware that the President is held accountable. But my main concern is the same as David's in regards to vendettas placed against presidents and/or DPs. I'm not molding anything where I or anyone can be "Teflon Ron" nor am I attempting to implement such thing. The thing I wanna see implemented is an enforcement of keeping the game and the forums civil and friendly, not bogged into nonsense vendettas and bickering that causes other citizens to lose interest in the game or become discouraged on running for president and/or the DP pool out of fear that they would get their heads bitten off.

I recall in demogames past where other posters chanted "It's a Demogame, it's fun and all that". I want to see the same spirit of having the game in Demogame to return and leave all of our past grudges and vendettas behind. We are all human, were not machines. But what grinds my gears is vendettas and grudges that are formed against a president and/or DP who made the mistake, despite the president and/or DP making a sincere effort to rectify their mistake and learned from that mistake, yet the grudges and vendettas continues on for months.

What I'd like to see more importantly, is that we all should strive and aim to be friendly and civil with one another. Not holding grudges, vendettas, and scapegoating citizens. I don't know why I bothered to return back to the Demogame, since I am having that feeling of "bussiness as usual" and the slogan "It's a demogame, it's fun and all that" would fall onto deaf ears.

If given a chance, I would gladly run for president and DP (But don't expect me to be "Teflon Ron", I've been through worse (Off Topic Forums))

Stop worrying about bad things that haven't happen. You are going to ruin your own game, CivGeneral. I haven't seen anything that resembles vendetta here. Provolution is playing Civ4 and Ravensfire is playing Civ3, so that's covered.

Buck up. Be assertive. Be who you need to be. Everyone makes mistakes. Make note of them and move on.

Yup!

Honestly though, I wouldn't worry about the CoC. If multiple officials want it, let them figure it out.

-- Ravensfire

I don't know... I feel a defined CoC is appropriate, otherwise when you've got multiple officials in a turnchat who wish to pick up the game in a DP's absence there may be an additional delay as they figure out who should take up the save.


As far as the President/DP issue both have a degree of responsibility in the matter. A President has the responsibility of selecting a DP who will play the save properly. However you don't necessarily know how a DP will play and document the save before they actually play it. If a prerequisite of becoming a DP is then you must have played the save before, then it nullifies half the idea of having a DP (giving regular citizens an opportunity to participate more without holding office). So the DP has a responsibility to live up to those expectations.

Also, if a President wishes to assign a DP, they could have confirmation polls to approve the person. Thus the citizens are given an opportunity to object. This however would mean a potential DP would have to be confirmed well before a time the DP might be called upon.

Though I personally still prefer the CoC method myself. I like the consistency of 1 person playing the save so playing/documenting style is consistent. As such I feel good ability to document the events of the turnchat is important in a president.

Well, I went through the Archives. Got side-tracked a few times, but mainly read Constitutions.

I did enjoy the Civ3 DG VII Constitution (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3127121&postcount=2). Very well written and pretty much covered everything. Glad that thing got finalized.

I quickly glanced at the DG VII constitution a moment ago.

I noticed the election of the President was handled by the Senate (Governors)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=130149#COLF1
I'm not sure how I feel about this, I feel the President should be directly elected by the people just like other officials. Though I didn't participate in DG VII so I don't know exactly how this played out....

I quickly glanced at the DG VII constitution a moment ago.

I noticed the election of the President was handled by the Senate (Governors)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=130149#COLF1
I'm not sure how I feel about this, I feel the President should be directly elected by the people just like other officials. Though I didn't participate in DG VII so I don't know exactly how this played out....

That was only if we didn't actually HAVE anyone run for President in the term or the President resigns mid-term. That clause only takes effect if the office is empty after an election cycle ends. Basically, it's a way to get someone in the office and keep the game flowing.

-- Ravensfire

That was only if we didn't actually HAVE anyone run for President in the term or the President resigns mid-term. That clause only takes effect if the office is empty after an election cycle ends. Basically, it's a way to get someone in the office and keep the game flowing.

-- Ravensfire

Ah, okay then, that makes more sense, sorry for the confusion.

So, are we floundering here? Shall we tentatively say that we're looking at Civ3 DG7's Constitution as a basis for our game? Has anyone come up with a scenario or short game version to discuss (other than/including 5CC)?

I kinda don't want to go for the 5CC challenge.

I do want us to try to create a larger nation so hopefully there's more going on. But we can still try to limit ourselves beyond that so we don't end up with 70 some cities and lengthy pre-turnchats.

So, are we floundering here? Shall we tentatively say that we're looking at Civ3 DG7's Constitution as a basis for our game? Has anyone come up with a scenario or short game version to discuss (other than/including 5CC)?
Might have to look at it, I may or may not been totally active in that game (I don't remember off the top of my head)

I kinda don't want to go for the 5CC challenge

Ditto

Ok, general consensus seems to be steering us away from the 5CC style game. I've been playing around with a Pangaea on a Small or Standard map. 5 AI tribes on that seems to be working out.

Any other ideas?

Ok, general consensus seems to be steering us away from the 5CC style game. I've been playing around with a Pangaea on a Small or Standard map. 5 AI tribes on that seems to be working out.

Any other ideas?

Standard, please.
Sounds good.

I'm also partial to the Pangaea... I think it worked out well DG1, and I lean towards Standard size map

Well, only 7 people have posted in this thread. I suppose we're going to have to put the game together and then advertise for more players. Don't have too much to work with so far. Pangaea on a Standard map seems to fly. How about 5 AI tribes. 60% water, wet climate, temperate tempreture, 5 billion years old? Roaming Barbs in a Monarch game? We could be the Russians. Expansionist/Scientific. We've never done the Russians, could be fun.

How about 4 Billion?

I don't like dialing in the 5CC or any variant from the start. Let's aim just to get a game started to begin with.

Once we have a core ruleset and think we can get ~10 regulars pre-announce, I'd be comfortable with putting forward a forum request. A couple of well-placed PMs to people who expressed interest in the poll might be in order.

With work back at full speed I'm not very available for organizing.

Well, for the rule set, I'd say let's go with the Civ3 DG7 Constitution minus the Game Structure clause about a 5CC game. I hink we can just link to it temporarily. I can work on getting the 5CC out and having a fresh copy. But here are the links to the thread Furiey put together.

The Laws (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3127118&postcount=1)

The Constitution (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3127121&postcount=2)

The Code of Laws (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3127126&postcount=3)

We can make changes as needed before and during the game. Some might want the DOW clause changed.....

Above are the links to the Constitution that will be the basis for the ruleset of DGRG1. The links will take you to the actual page and may be a lot easier to read than this post (until I get it completed). While I'm constucting this, please post comments and complaints below. I'd like to get this finalized quickly.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Demogame Constitution

The Laws of Fanatikos

To keep the DemoGame running smoothly we have created a set of rules by which we play. These rules (or laws) lay down all aspects of our Government; such as who does what job, how our leaders are elected and what we have to do if we want to change the Laws.

We have 2 Sets of laws; the highest set of laws is the Constitution, which gives the top level set of rules. This is backed up with the Code of Laws, which puts some more detail behind what the Constitution says.

Hopefully these Laws will answer your questions concerning the rules of the game, but if not, please do not post here but ask in the Judicial Thread in the Government Forum.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Constitution

We, the people of Fanatikos, in order to create an atmosphere of friendship, cooperation, and pride, establish this Constitution of our beloved country. We uphold the beliefs that each citizen must have an equal voice in the government and ruling of our country, that government itself is a construct of and servant to the people, that rules, regulations, and laws should be established to facilitate the active participation of all citizens and to make possible the dreams and desires of the citizens.

Here, there are many people involved with making the decisions on how the game is played. Instead of all sitting at the same computer, we use the forums to discuss the game with each other. To manage many people playing the game, a government has been formed to provide a structured way for everyone to be involved in the decision making process. We encourage all citizens to take an active part, and to act as a citizen would, to role play their views and actions.

This government is much like real life. It has a Constitution, a Code of Laws, and elections to select Leaders that are responsible for managing certain aspects of the game. Continue reading and you will find all you need to know to participate in the DemoGame.

Article A. Citizenship
Article B. Laws of Fanatikos
Article C. Game Structure
Article D. Government Structure
Article E. The Executive Branch
Article F. Legislative Branch
Article G. Judicial Branch
Article H. Elections
Article I. Multiple Offices
Article J. Will of the Assembly Will of the People
Article K. Recall of Elected Officials
Article L. Game Sessions
Article M. Playing the Save
Article N. Census, and Amending the Constitution

Article A. Citizenship
All Civfanatics Forum users who register in the Citizen Registry are citizens of our country, and members of the Assembly. Citizens have the right to assemble, the right to free movement, the right to free speech, the right to a fair trial, the right to representation, the right to request an investigation into possible violations of law and the right to vote. Political parties are not permitted.

Article B. Laws of Fanatikos
Governing rules shall consist of these Articles of the Constitution, such amendments that shall follow and lower forms of law that may be implemented. No rule shall be valid that contradicts these Articles.

These rules may not contradict the rules and regulations of the Civfanatics Forums. Moderators may veto any such rules.

Article C. Game Structure

Article D. Government Structure
The government will consist of the Executive Branch, the Legislative Branch and the Judicial Branch. All leaders must determine and implement the Will of the Assembly Will of the People.
Code of Laws Section D.1 Freedom of Information

Article E. The Executive Branch
The Executive branch is responsible for tasks and projects that affect the Nation and is headed by the President.
The President is responsible for control of the slider, worker allocation and resolving disputes between leaders, such as over use of gold. The President is also responsible for all tasks not assigned to another leader. The President is also held accountable for the playing of the save and the actions taken while playing the save. The consistant progression of the game as a whole is also the President's responsibilty

The Minister of Foreign Affairs is responsible for all matters involving treaties with foreign nations and all espionage activities. This includes Trade Embargoes, Military Alliances and the use of Spies to acquire technologies.

The Minister of Defense is responsible the defense of Fanatikos and military planning. The Minister also controls the actions of all Military units.

The Minister of Trade and Technology is responsible for all trade initiatives and research goals. The Minister also coordinates any plans for spaceship construction.
Code of Laws Section E.1 City Placement and Naming

Article F. Legislative Branch
The Legislative Branch is formed of the Assembly. and a Senate of Governors.

The Assembly is made up of all citizens, and is responsible for the creation of new laws and Amendments. The Assembly will present all such proposals to the Judiciary for review.

The Senate is made up of Governors are, and is responsible for the well-being of the Provinces of Fanatikos. Each Province will have its own Governor, and all captured cities will be controlled by the Expatriate Governor. Each Governor is responsible for the care, management, and use of Province/Cities they control.

Each Governor may also setup a civic government for the cities they control in any manner they see fit that does not conflict with Fanatikos laws.

The Senate is Governors are also responsible for choosing a President should an election cycle complete with no citizen elected as President.

The power to declare War is given to the Assembly and the Senate.
Code of Laws Section F.1 Senatorial Legislative Election of a President
Code of Laws Section F.2 Declaration of War
Code of Laws Section F.3 Declaration of Mobilization

Article G. Judicial Branch
The Judicial Branch will consist of one Chief Justice, one Public Defender and a Judge Advocate. These three justices are tasked with upholding, clarifying and reviewing all changes to the Constitution and its supporting laws through Judicial Reviews, and upholding the rights of all citizens through Investigations. The Judiciary will carry out all its tasks in a fair, impartial, public and speedy manner.
Code of Laws Section G.1 Judicial Procedures

The Chief Justice shall have the additional responsibility to organize and conduct the affairs of the Judicial Branch. The Public Defender will act as council to an accused citizen, if the accused citizen wishes. The Judge Advocate will act as the prosecution.

Article H. Elections
The Executive Branch positions, Governorships and the Judiciary positions are all elected positions with a fixed term not to exceed one month.
Code of Laws Section H.1 Elections
Code of Laws Section H.2 Designated Player Pool
Code of Laws Section H.3 Deputies
Code of Laws Section H.4 Vacancies
Code of Laws Section H.5 Confirmation Polls

Article I. Multiple Offices
The number and type of offices which may be held by a citizen simultaneously may be limited if specified in a lower form of law.
Code of Laws Section I.1 Multiple Offices

Article J. Will of the Assembly Will of the People
Elected Officials must plan and act according to the Will of the Assembly. The Will of the Assembly Will of the People. Will of the People is the aggregate wish of the citizens of our Fanatikos. It is determined by unanimity in a completed discussion, or by the majority vote in an official poll.
Code of Laws Section J.1 Polling Standards

Article K. Recall of Elected Officials
Citizens may request a Recall of an elected official.
Code of Laws Section K.1 Recalls

Article L. Game Sessions
There are two kinds of Game Sessions. One is an online TurnChat (TC), the other is played offline by a DP. The default Game Session will be the online TurnChat (TC).
All irreversible game actions must be made by the President or his delegate (DP)a Designated Player during a game session using instructions posted in a game session instruction thread.

A special session to accomplish a specific, short goal may be held by the President if there is significant public support. These special sessions do not count as a regular game session.
Code of Laws Section L.1 Game Sessions

Article M. Playing the Save
Commission of any game action, by any person other than the Designated Player while carrying out their duties, which is not instantly reversible without reloading the save, is strictly forbidden.

Exception: Determining options in the renegotiation of Peace agreements requires an action of acceptance or war to exit the bargain screen. This may be done but the game must be immediately closed without saving.

Article N. Census, and Amending the Constitution
The Census is defined as the average number of votes cast, dropped fractions, in each of the contested elections in the most recent general election

Amendments to the Constitution must be posted as a Proposed Poll in the discussion thread for at least 24 hours prior to submission to the Judiciary. The discussion on the amendment must have lasted at least 48 hours.

Amendments must pass Judicial Review. If accepted, the Judiciary will post the poll. This poll will be open for 4 days, state the new text and the current text. To pass, an amendment must have a 67% majority of positive votes, ignoring Abstain, and have a total number of votes greater than 1/2 of the census.
Code of Laws Section N.1 Amending the Code of Laws
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Code of Laws

Section D.1 Freedom of Information
All elected officials will create an official thread. This thread will be used to provide updates to the citizens about their office. The information in this thread should updated frequently in order to accurately reflect the current game situation.

Section E.1 City Placement and Naming
Discussions on city placement and names will be lead by the Governor of that city.

Section F.1 Senatorial Legislative Election of a President
The Senate is Governors are responsible for choosing a citizen to serve as President if an election cycle completes with nobody elected to the office of President. A Senator A Governor will create a thread for interested citizens to post in, and be questioned by the Senate Governors. 3 days after the creation of this thread, the Senate Legislature will vote amongst all interested Candidates via Private Message to the Chief Justice or a Moderator Poll. The citizen receiving the most votes is elected President. If more than one citizen ties, a run-off election will be held between only those citizens.

Section F.2 Declaration of War
To declare a war, the Minister of Foreign Affairs will create a normal poll for the Assembly, and a thread poll for the Senate. If more than 50% of the voters, not counting abstain, in both polls support the declaration, war can be declared. If either poll gains a two-thirds majority in support of war, war may be declared regardless of the other poll.

Section F.3 Declaration of Mobilization
To declare Fanatikos in a state of Mobilization, any Senator citizen may create a discussion about it. After at least 48 hours, a vote may be called for by a Senator the President. If seconded by another Senator, each Senator must post within 48 hours of the second if they support or oppose the Mobilization. If there are more votes in support than oppose at the end of the 48 hours, Fanatikos is to be placed in a state of Mobilization.

Section G.1 Judicial Procedures
The Chief Justice must post the Judicial Procedures by which they plan to run the Judiciary. These procedures are not binding until 2/3 of the Judiciary accepts the procedures. They may not be changed except through a unanimous decision by all members of the Judiciary. These procedures may not contradict the Constitution or the Code of Laws, but are considered law.

Section H.1 Elections
The Election Office, a citizen’s office supervised by the President, will perform all actions needed for each election cycle.

The regular election cycle starts at the posting of the nomination threads, and concludes when the last poll, including runoff polls, closes. Nomination threads will be posted 8 days before the end of the current term. Election polls will be posted 4 days later, and will list all accepted candidates for each election. Election polls will be marked public, and last for 3 days.

Each position will be granted to the candidate receiving the largest number of votes in that election. In the event of a tie between two or more front runners, a runoff poll shall be opened between those candidates only. This poll shall run for 2 days, and be repeated as often as needed to resolve the tie.

Except for the first term, all terms will start on the 1st of the month, and end on the last day of that month.

Section H.2 Designated Player Pool
During each regular election cycle, a separate thread will be created during the nomination process for DP Candidates. Any citizen that wishes to be a DP must post in this thread. When the election polls are posted, a separate poll, in multi-choice format, listing each candidate will be posted. Citizens will vote their approval for a candidate by selecting their name.

A citizen may run for an elected office and apply to be a DP in the same term. The DP Pool does not count as an elected office.

Each candidate that receives a vote from more than ½ of the citizens that vote in the poll will be accepted as a DP for that term. The Election Office will put together a list of the Designated Players, ordered by the number of votes in support for that term. In the event of a tie, the order of posting in the nomination thread will be used. All DPs that actually ran a game session in the previous term will be put below those that did not, regardless of the number of votes. This list will determine the order that the DPs will be used for game sessions. If there are more game sessions than DPs, start again from the top of the list.

Should the DP pool be empty, the President is responsible for determining who will be the DP for each game session, using any citizen of Fanatikos to serve as DP.

Members of the DP pool may exchange places as they desire, so long as all citizens involved agree.

Section H.3 Deputies
All Executive and Governor positions will have a deputy. The Deputy is permitted to conduct the affairs of the office as directed by the elected official, or during a planned Absence of the elected official. If no instructions have been posted for an office within 24 hours of the upcoming Game Session, the deputy for that office may post the official instructions for the office.

The Judiciary does not use deputies. In the event of an Absence, a pro-tem justice(s) may be appointed by the Chief Justice (or Judge Advocate if the Chief Justice if absent) and confirmed by the President and the remaining justice if not also absent.

If both the Chief Justice and the Judge Advocate are absent, the Public Defender may appoint pro-tems to the other seats, with Presidential approval.

Section H.4 Vacancies
The President will appoint a citizen to any Vacant office. If a deputy exists for that office, the President must offer the appointment to that citizen. This appointment may be challenged by any citizen by that citizen posting a confirmation poll within 24 hours of the appointment.

If an elected official does not post in the DG forums in 7 days without prior notice, any citizen may request the Judiciary to investigate. The Judiciary, by a majority vote, may declare the office Vacant at the conclusion of the investigation.

Section H.5 Confirmation Polls
A confirmation poll is used, where permitted by law, to give citizens the opportunity to challenge certain actions. If a challenge poll does not exist for such an action, any citizen may create such a poll. This poll must be created within 24 hours of the action, should ask “Do you approve of <description of action”>, contain Yes, No and Abstain options, and run for 2 days. If the action concerns a citizen, the poll must be marked private. Otherwise, it must be marked public. When the poll closes, if the majority of citizens, not including abstain, voted No, the action is overturned. Any other result confirms the action.

Section I.1 Multiple Offices
A citizen who holds a governorship may also hold one additional office which may be an executive office or another governorship. Citizens may only accept one nomination per election cycle. If more than one nomination is accepted the first one shall prevail. The second office held by a citizen, if any, must be by appointment to a vacant office. The order of the offices held by the citizen is immaterial (Governor then Executive, vs Executive then Governor), as long as the offices are combined as specified in this section.

Section J.1 Polling Standards
Polls posted by an elected official on an area they control are considered official and binding unless specifically stated otherwise. Polls posted by citizens, by officials outside their area or by officials in their area explicitly noted as such are considered unofficial, and do not bind officials in any way. Officials should, however, take such polls into account during planning.

The description and initial post for all official polls should be stated in a clear and neutral manner.

The initial post should contain a link to all relevant discussion threads. Each option should be explained if not immediately clear. The time frame for the poll, and how the results will be interpreted should also be in the initial post.

All official polls must be open for a minimum of 24 hours to be binding. They are strongly encouraged to be open for at least 3 days.

Official polls should be flagged as “Public” unless directly concerning another Citizen.

Section K.1 Recalls
Any citizen may create a thread requesting the recall of a specific elected official. This post must include the reason the recall is requested.

Should two additional citizens post in that thread supporting the recall within 24 hours of the initial post, the Chief Justice (or Judge Advocate if the recall is for the Chief Justice) must create a Recall poll. This is a private poll, asking in Yes/No/Abstain format if the elected official should be removed from office. This poll should run for 4 days.

If 2/3 of the citizens voting support the recall, ignoring abstain, and the total number of votes is greater than 1/2 of the census, the citizen is removed from office, and the office is declared Vacant.

A Recall may be requested no sooner than 7 days after a previous attempt in the same term on the same official.

Section L.1 Game Sessions
All irreversible game actions must progress during a game session should progressnduring an online turnchat, while reversible game actions (i.e. build queues) that adhere to legal instructions can be prepared offline. During each session, the designated player must provide a log of their actions in sufficient detail to replicate their actions. The President or his delegate may choose to play an offline Game Session rather than an online TurnChat, but must first get the approval of the people with a public poll.

A Game Session Instruction Thread must be created at least 2 days before the chat by the Designated Player for that session. Should a thread not be created in a timely manner, the President may create one. Game Sessions must be at least 3 days apart, no more than 7 days apart. The initial post should contain the date and time of the game session, a link to the save to be used for that session, and if the game session will be online or offline. If the game session is offline, a citizen may post a confirmation poll for that session. If the confirmation poll contains more NO votes than YES votes, the DP must reschedule the game session as an online turnchat.

All official instructions must be posted in the current game session instruction thread. Instructions must be clear and defined. Officials must post their instructions at least one hour before the scheduled start of the game session. However, officials may make changes to their instructions up to an hour before the chat, so long as those changes are clearly noted in that official's Office Thread. Officials that do not post instructions for a game session are considered to have given the DP complete control over their area for that game session. If this happens in two consecutive game sessions, that Official is subject to a recall vote.

The game session may last for as long as there are relevant instructions, until a posted instruction says to hold the session or when the DP decides to end the session. Once a game session is over, DPs must post a summary of that session, a detailed log of their actions, relevant screenshots, and a save in the instruction thread and in the summary thread.

If the DP for a session does not show up (a 15 minute lee-way period is allowed), or is unable to continue, a substitute DP can be chosen for that session from the Chain of Command. This substitute is chosen from the President, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Minister of Defense and the Minister of Trade and Technology, in that order.

Section N.1 Amending the Code of Laws
Amendments to the Code of Laws must be posted as a Proposed Poll in the discussion thread for at least 24 hours prior to submission to the Judiciary. The discussion on the amendment must have lasted at least 48 hours.

Amendments must pass Judicial Review. If accepted, the Judiciary will post the poll. This poll will be open for 3 days, state the new text and the current text. To pass, an amendment must have a majority of positive votes, ignoring Abstain.

At issue with this Con is the Game Structure of the 5CC type (which I have removed). It seems most people here are not in favor of it. If I am wrong, please let me know. By removing the 5CC Structure, the Governors positions and descriptions change slightly. I'll try to clean those up also. Declaration Of War (DOW) and Mobilization may also be an issue here. Do you have any other concerns about the above ruleset? If so, please post below.

Also, please ignore the name Fanatikos. It is just a placeholder for the future name we will give our Tribe.

Here's a quick scan of what people would like to see.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Furiey - DP
Have the President responsible for playing the save and
scheduling the sessions but able to delegate to another player
if they can't play. In such cases the president would be
responsible for ensuring the schedule was maintained and be
held accountable for what was done.

Black Hole - Will of the People, and DP pool.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7617902&postcount=8

Falcon02 - DP pool
I tend to lean away from the DP Pool idea and back to the President w/ CoC (Chain of Command) style DP Pool where President always plays the save and officials only play in case of absence.

Cyc - DP pool
President plays or delegates, with the Chain of Command used in case of unexplained absence. But the President is always held accountable for the actions taken in a Turn Session, among other things (such as the consistant progress of the game).

Ravensfire - Province, Will Of The People
For provinces, allow the President to set the boundaries and change as needed. A majority of governors can veto this decision though, as can a citizens poll.

Basically, tell official they should to "seek the will of the people through discussions and/or polls". Add something that major decisions should be verified through a poll. If a decision isn't backed by a poll, anyone can post a 2 day poll to override it.

Ravensfire - DP pool
I don't think we can try a split - Pres plays, but can pass off to Pool as needed. If we've got a Pres that does play all the time, the Pool that term wouldn't be used and might not appreciate it. Maybe set a tiered CoC? Pres schedules and plays, but can also delegate to any willing citizen as needed. If scheduled player doesn't show, allow any elected official to take it. If no elected official, allow any citizen to take it.

civplayah - DP pool, WOTP
I like the idea of DP pools, and the idea that the officials and the WOTP have equal power. Anything is fine with me, though.

Ravensfire - DP pool (revised)
So how about this - the President schedules the game session. If they can, they play they save. If they can't, they can delegate someone to play the save. If the scheduled player doesn't start reasonably on time (15 minutes?), any elected official can take over as the DP. If no elected official takes over (15 more minutes?), and citizen may take over.

Starting the session (including taking over) would be defined as a "got it!" post in the instruction thread, allowing for both on-line and off-line sessions.

CivGeneral - DP pool
For the presidency, separate the DP role and have it as a separate system of a pool of willing individuals (elected or appointed by the president) to play the role of DP.

Falcon02 - Chain of Command
I feel a defined CoC is appropriate, otherwise when you've got multiple officials in a turnchat who wish to pick up the game in a DP's absence there may be an additional delay as they figure out who should take up the save.

Though I personally still prefer the CoC method myself. I like the consistency of 1 person playing the save so playing/documenting style is consistent. As such I feel good ability to document the events of the turnchat is important in a president.

How about we make the President ultimately responsible for playing the save, but he/she can choose to delegate the power in his/her absence to either the Chain of Command or a pool of citizens chosen by the President. If citizens are stead fast in their support of using the Chain of Command they can vote for a President who would do it that way.

Excellent idea, Blackhole. Sounds good to me! Glad to have you back. It's been a while, huh. Enthusiasm in this game seems to have waned. What a shame.

Maybe I can spark some interest with the Forum Structure topic.... :dunno:

The Main forum should probably be called the Civ3 DemoGame Revival Game 1. We are reviving the long lost art of Civilization 3 DemoGames. I like the DGRG1 acronym. It is easily identifyable and distinguishes us from the prior games. Less confusion.

For sub-forums, I say the usual. Citizens, Government, Polls, and RPG. We can determine which threads we need stickied at a later date, but we'll need the standards, such as "Needed Things", "DGRG1 Constitution/Ruleset", Discussion and Poll Index (what plural index, again? Indices?), etc. Comments? Questions?

If you wish, I can be able to create a PDF file of the finished consitution. I'm able to do that with OpenOffice.org's writer :).

Sounds good, CivGeneral. I'll let you know when it's completed. Thanks. :thumbsup:

Well on constitutional matters, one thing we should make sure to do is incorporate (if not already done so) the judicial reviews into the constitution. There is no reason to rule on these issues again so we should make sure they are addressed before adopting the ruleset.

DG 7 Judicial Log (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=124088)


DG7JR1 - Will a 4-2 vote by the Governors meet the 67% requirement in CoL F.2?
Already taken care of in game by amendment.

DG7JR2 - Is the ability of the Governors to overrule the Assembly in CoL F.2 Constitutional?
The court ruled that governors could overrule the assembly. The problem here lied in the possibility that you could find CoL F.2 contradictory to Article J of the constitution. The constitution says that elected official (which include governors) must act according to the WOTP, but CoL F.2 mentions a specific time when governors can overrule the citizenry as a whole. Basically is it necessary to redo the war declaration section?

DG7JR3 - Who names the a city - the first Governor or the Governor when the city is founded?
This may change depending on how we redo governors to account for more than one city.

DG7JR4 - Who controls the actions of workers?
Here the court ruled that the President allocated workers to a governor and that governor could use them how we want. Is this how we want it?

DG7JR6 - What happens on a Confirmation Poll if the action has already occurred and is irreversible?
The court ruled confirmation polls can't reverse actions that have already occurred. This makes sense.

DG7JR7 - What does the phrase "majority of citizens" in Section H.5 of the Code of Laws mean?
Here the question is whether a majority of citizens in a confirmation poll is a majority of those voting or a majority of the census. We should probably decide one way and specify in the rules.

DG7JR8 – How should Article 3 of the Constitution be interpreted?
No longer relevant since we won't be playing 5CC.

DG7JR9 - May the President issue legal instructions if a leader posts incomplete instructions?
The court ruled that the president cannot post instructions for incomplete parts of a leader's instructions. Do we want to keep it this way?

DG7JR10 - Do cities that are acquired from a culture flip and then abandoned count towards the one city per civ requirement?
Not relevant anymore.

DG7JR13 - Meaning of "5 cities built" clause - Article C
Also not relevant anymore.

DG7JR14 - Missed turnchats
This will be affected by how we decide to redo the turn player system.

DG7JR15 ?
Basically we need to specify who posts the war declaration poll if the Foreign Affairs Leader and Deputy are absent. The court ruled the President could, but I think we should clarify.

So in summary, JRs 2,4,7,9, and 14 should be addressed before starting the game.

I'll take a finer look through the constitution and code of laws above sometime this weekend.

Nice work, Black Hole. I went through these during the week, but as participation has been sparse, I didn't want to make any sweeping changes without approval. Can't wait to hear what your thoughts on the CoL are. :goodjob:

DG 7 Judicial Log (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=124088)


DG7JR1 - Will a 4-2 vote by the Governors meet the 67% requirement in CoL F.2?
Already taken care of in game by amendment.
Agreed

DG7JR2 - Is the ability of the Governors to overrule the Assembly in CoL F.2 Constitutional?
The court ruled that governors could overrule the assembly. The problem here lied in the possibility that you could find CoL F.2 contradictory to Article J of the constitution. The constitution says that elected official (which include governors) must act according to the WOTP, but CoL F.2 mentions a specific time when governors can overrule the citizenry as a whole. Basically is it necessary to redo the war declaration section?
Some people have stated they would like to see the DOW clause redone. Me too. I believe because their will not be 5 Governors from the start, that the Senate should be removed from this decision. Governors can still vote, but as part of the Assembly (as citizens). Only 1 poll is needed. That poll is for the Assembly.

DG7JR3 - Who names the a city - the first Governor or the Governor when the city is founded?
This may change depending on how we redo governors to account for more than one city.
Governors will come and go. Whoever is Governor of a Province when a city is founded in that Province, gets to name that city. That City name cannot be changed, unless it is objectionable to the majority of the Assembly. Then an opinion poll can change it.

DG7JR4 - Who controls the actions of workers?
Here the court ruled that the President allocated workers to a governor and that governor could use them how we want. Is this how we want it?
One of the more difficult sections of governing in a DG. I would say the President has complete authority over workers, as long as the President has a thread posted in the Citizen's sub-forum for worker allocation. There the President must state in general terms what he/she plans on doing with the Workers during the nect Turn Session and perhaps during the Term. In this thread, citizens can post their comments and complaints about the Presidents plan or execution of said plan. Governors may also post requests for workers to do specific jobs in their Provinces in this thread.

DG7JR6 - What happens on a Confirmation Poll if the action has already occurred and is irreversible?
The court ruled confirmation polls can't reverse actions that have already occurred. This makes sense.
True. It sounds like someone acted before they should have. An impeachment or being voted out of Office would be more suitable.

DG7JR7 - What does the phrase "majority of citizens" in Section H.5 of the Code of Laws mean?
Here the question is whether a majority of citizens in a confirmation poll is a majority of those voting or a majority of the census. We should probably decide one way and specify in the rules.
Confirmation Polls are used and voted in by people who care about an action. I don't see a need to use the census as a parameter here. Election Poll voters may vastly out-number citizens who care about one action or another in the game. Let's make it just the majority of citizens who vote in the confirmation poll. And actually that was Section H.4

DG7JR8 – How should Article 3 of the Constitution be interpreted?
No longer relevant since we won't be playing 5CC.
Agreed

DG7JR9 - May the President issue legal instructions if a leader posts incomplete instructions?
The court ruled that the president cannot post instructions for incomplete parts of a leader's instructions. Do we want to keep it this way?
I would say yes. By changing this, we'll be giving the President/DP too much power during a Turn Session. A Governor should be able to expand or change his Instructions during a game, but at the risk of being booted from Office afterwards by the people who belived his original Instructions.

DG7JR10 - Do cities that are acquired from a culture flip and then abandoned count towards the one city per civ requirement?
Not relevant anymore.

DG7JR13 - Meaning of "5 cities built" clause - Article C
Also not relevant anymore.

DG7JR14 - Missed turnchats
This will be affected by how we decide to redo the turn player system.
I would say the President is responsible and takes the hit. If the President can't show up to lead his People, maybe he shouldn't be President. If it is a DP other than the President, the Pres still takes the hit, and can decide not to use that DP again.

DG7JR15 ?
Basically we need to specify who posts the war declaration poll if the Foreign Affairs Leader and Deputy are absent. The court ruled the President could, but I think we should clarify.
Personally, I liked the Public Defender's ruling on the matter. The President is the Leader of the nation and should be able to step in where needed. Executive Authority.

So in summary, JRs 2,4,7,9, and 14 should be addressed before starting the game.

I'll take a finer look through the constitution and code of laws above sometime this weekend.
Just a few thoughts in red.

I'm still about, but very short of time. Good idea to include these judicial rulings back into the laws.

Alright this might get long, but here are some of my comments on the ruleset.

1. Const. D and Const. J are redundant.
Article D. Government Structure
The government will consist of the Executive Branch, the Legislative Branch and the Judicial Branch. All leaders must determine and implement the will of the Assembly.

Article J. Will of the Assembly
Elected Officials must plan and act according to the Will of the Assembly. The Will of the Assembly is the aggregate wish of the citizens of our Fanatikos. It is determined by unanimity in a completed discussion, or by the majority vote in an official poll.
I think we can strike the line I bolded from article D.

2.CoL H.3 has this: All Executive and Governor positions will have a deputy. This makes it sound like you are required to have a deputy, I think we should change "will" to "may".

3. Const. L.1 says that we must have online turnchats. I personally think that should be up to the President, but what does everyone else think?

4. Who is in charge of settlement? It is currently assigned to a governor of that city because no domestic minister has been assigned. Should we have a Domestic Minister, or is that basically the President?

Overall I think the biggest issue is how we should setup governors/the domestic minister. Should we start with just one governor? And should we have a senate of governors?

Alright this might get long, but here are some of my comments on the ruleset.

1. Const. D and Const. J are redundant.
Article D. Government Structure

Article J. Will of the Assembly
I think we can strike the line I bolded from article D.
I'd say leave it, but will let other people voice their concerns, as some dislike the concept of the WOTP.

2.CoL H.3 has this: This makes it sound like you are required to have a deputy, I think we should change "will" to "may".
Everyone needs a second in command, a backup in case they run into a problem. Maybe "should" will be better word.

3. Const. L.1 says that we must have online turnchats. I personally think that should be up to the President, but what does everyone else think?
I like the idea of online turnchats to bring us back. Prep moves can be done offline. If necessary, an offline turn session can be approved through a poll.

4. Who is in charge of settlement? It is currently assigned to a governor of that city because no domestic minister has been assigned. Should we have a Domestic Minister, or is that basically the President?
I'm for bringing back the Domestic Leader. I will start another post on this, as it will be lengthy

Overall I think the biggest issue is how we should setup governors/the domestic minister. Should we start with just one governor? And should we have a senate of governors?
At first, 1 Governor. Then as the Province map develops and we have cities in more than one Province, a special election can give us the needed Governor(s) until the end of Term.
Comments in RED!

I think we should keep "Will of the People"

Though I imagine what people think that requires differs...

Also I don't like "Will of the Assembly" wording doesn't make it easily accessible

Just say People or Citizens... Assembly suggests some elected entity to me, which is not the case.

One thing that hasn't been brought up with online turnchats (and is a major source of contention for them).

Do we want to address turnchat polls for minor decisions and live turnchat "instructions" by officials? I personally feel these are alright, so long as they are small enough decisions are minor enough that DP would otherwise make the decision on their own otherwise, and so long as it's NOT considered legally binding.

Good comments, Falcon02. I, too, like the WOTP. I believe the "live" Instructions have already been addressed. I will find it later. As far as turnchat polls, they basically diminished to opinion polls, that the DP could follow if they wished, but were pretty much used for confidence in decision-making. The Pres and DP are ultimately rsponsible for everything that happens in a T/C, so trying to duck out using a T/C poll as a reason doesn't fly. And if the Pres/DP are held responsible, you can't force them to follow a poll voted on by unaccountable bystanders.

We're starting to get a lot of info here, so I'm going to start editing the Con and CoL. I will color code the changes. Things that are tentatively scheduled to go will be in green. Things that may replace them will be in this dark red. Green for go, Red for stay. Let's hope we get some more input from others.

EDIT: The Will of the People and Governors are pretty much taken care of all the way through the Con and through the CoL.

I think we should keep "Will of the People"

Though I imagine what people think that requires differs...

Also I don't like "Will of the Assembly" wording doesn't make it easily accessible

Just say People or Citizens... Assembly suggests some elected entity to me, which is not the case.
I wasn't saying we should remove it, I'm just saying that we have two identical lines in the constitution.
In article D we have:
All leaders must determine and implement the will of the Assembly.

In article J we have:

Elected Officials must plan and act according to the Will of the Assembly.

I don't think its necessary for it to be in there twice.

I agree on not needing it twice. But I think some of the other comments are about not needing the "assembly" wording at all. Just stick with "the people" or something equivalent, to make it more consumable for casual players who might jump in.

I will leave the changes to the Constitution and the CoL up for a couple of days and if there are no objections, I will make the permenant.

Green means it should go, red means it should stay.

I agree on not needing it twice. But I think some of the other comments are about not needing the "assembly" wording at all. Just stick with "the people" or something equivalent, to make it more consumable for casual players who might jump in.

When I first looked at this version of the Constitution, I saw the "Assembly" wording (I don't think the line I first saw it with was with "Will of the..."). I started searching the constitution to see "who" the Assembly was. At first I assumed it was the Governors, until I realized it was just referring to the citizens when I saw "Will of the Assembly" line Black_Hole mentioned.

How about 4 Billion?
Hey civplayah, why would you like to play a 4 billion year old planet? This game is going to be tough. The extra mountains and fewer grasslands will make growth more difficult. But that's just my opinion. I think there are better ways to make the game interesting than slowing growth.

I believe mentioning the "Will of the People" in both the Constitution and the Code of Laws is needed. Lest we forget. It is pretty much written in stone that this is a Democracy game. Leaders should do what the people want. They don't have to, but will probably pay a heavy price for going against the people's will.

I think there's nothing wrong with supporting the mention of it in the Constitution with a blurb in the more detailed CoL. It gives it more strength.

I'm with Falcon on the CoC. I'd like to see a DG1/2 style advisors (based on each Civ3 advisor), along with governors (I believe we did either 14 cities, or x number of tiles). Mayors and other offices would be appointed to help out.

I'm with Falcon on the CoC. I'd like to see a DG1/2 style advisors (based on each Civ3 advisor), along with governors (I believe we did either 14 cities, or x number of tiles). Mayors and other offices would be appointed to help out.
You know, I have to agree with you, Chieftess. I agreed earlier with Black Hole about using either the CoC or the Designated Pool, but to make things easier and to eliminate an election poll, I think we should just make the CoC the DP Pool. I know, some people might just want to play the save and not run for office. Or vice versa, the may not be able to play the save (or don't want to) but still want to hold office. Let's say the only way you can be a DP is to be on the CoC list (must be an elected official). But once you become an elected official, you are not required to play the save.

If we do this, it pretty much satisfies the majority of posters. It also adds responsibility to the DP position. And a perk for elected officials.

I think setting the Provinces by the number of tiles is better. Maybe even a wheel spoke system in the begining.

And I believe a Provincial style government for the Governors is already in Article F of the Con.

The changes I have proposed to the Con and the CoL are posted below. They will become permanent soon, so if you have concerns, questions, or comments please post soon.

1. Changed the Will of the Assembly to the Will of the People in both Con and CoL.The Assembly is still "all the citizens".

2. Eliminated the Governor conflicts brought on by the 5CC game. Governors can still form a Senate, but their powers have been curtailed.

3.Changed "a game session" to "an online turnchat" in Section L.1 of the CoL. It is called a chat in the next paragraph, so I believe it should be an online turnchat. We have game sessions. There are two kinds of game sessions. one is online and the other is offline. Online sessions are turnchats, offline sessions are not. All irreversible game actions must be played online, while reversible game actions (build ques, slider movements, etc) can be done offline beforehand. (See section L of the CoL) I believe a President or DP can play a session offline (instead of a turnchat), but he/she must FIRST get the approval of the People with a public poll.

Your modifation to Code of Laws Section F.3 makes it sound like the President can completely veto the request to declare mobilization:
After at least 48 hours, a vote may be called for by a Senator the President.
Was this intentional? We could change the wording to require a poll or change it so that certain elected officials would be be able to call for a vote.

I think what that line means is that the President "may not" call for a vote before the 48 hour period is finished. And it wasn't my modification that made you think what you thought. ;) True, a President has veto power, and a Governor does not, but I only replaced the person calling for a vote.

Why don't you re-write it so that it sounds appropriate to you. I believe we all know what it means, but if you would like to nail it down to specifics, maybe to include the Foreign Minister, please be my guest.

Worked on Game Sessions and started wording for the DP pool/CoC. Work done in both Article L of the Con and Section L.1 of the CoL.

I am so confused as to what this is, but I want to get involved!

I am so confused as to what this is, but I want to get involved!

What part are you confused about? How would you like to be involved?

Here's a link to the Civ3 Demogame 5. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=123) Maybe looking at these forums will help you get a better idea of how a game is played. The begining of the game posts are in the back and work their way forward to the end of the game.

Well my question about it being intentional is: do we want to allow the President to decide not to call a vote on mobilization? I just thought the previous wording was a little confusing as to whether or not the President was required to call a vote.

:) I know you understand, Black Hole. Would you like to write the Code of Laws Section F.3? I'm pretty busy, and that would help.

Section F.3 Declaration of Mobilization
To declare Fanatikos in a state of Mobilization, any citizen may create a discussion about it. After at least 48 hours, but no more than 96 hours, a vote shall be called for by the President. If there are more votes in support than oppose at the end of the 48 hours, Fanatikos is to be placed in a state of Mobilization.

Section F.3 Declaration of Mobilization
To declare Fanatikos in a stae of Mobilization, any citizen may create a discussion thread about it. After more than 48 hours of posting, but less than 96 hours, a vote about the Mobiliztion shall be called for by the President, in the form of a Public Poll that will last 48 hours. If there are more votes in support of Mobilization than opposed at the close of the Poll, Fanatikos is to be placed in a state of Mobilization on the decided turn.

Thank you, Black Hole. I'll put it in tomorrow.

The only potential issue I see with that is it means it will take at a minimum 4 days but could be up to 6 days from the start of the discussion thread to start mobilisation. This sounds even more complicated than declaring war. Could we not have similar wording to the war declaration rather than lock ourselves into a timescale? The important thing is that it must be voted on.

Actually, Furiey, I don't have a problem with that timetable. Mobilization is a very serious event. Not only does it restrict your building options, but because you have to declare peace to get out of Mobilization, you're potentially putting the ball in your opponents hands, so to speak. I don't want to rush into Mobilization (I never use it). It is an issue that needs discussing and voting. 4 days is not a long time.

if this ever comes about i would be keen to play, civ4 sucks civ34life

Actually, Furiey, I don't have a problem with that timetable. Mobilization is a very serious event. Not only does it restrict your building options, but because you have to declare peace to get out of Mobilization, you're potentially putting the ball in your opponents hands, so to speak. I don't want to rush into Mobilization (I never use it). It is an issue that needs discussing and voting. 4 days is not a long time.

You mean war-time mobilization? What buildings does it restrict? If it's all bad, then is it just to make the game more challenging or make it so that you can pummel everyone?

You mean war-time mobilization? What buildings does it restrict? If it's all bad, then is it just to make the game more challenging or make it so that you can pummel everyone?
From Ginger Ale's Civ3 FAQ -

What is mobilization?

Mobilization is a special state you can place your nation in. It is aimed for civilizations fighting many wars that need a significant boost in their military production. Here's how it works: once you research Nationalism, you have the option to go into Mobilization (change it on the F1 Domestic Screen, from "Normal" to "Mobilization"). In Mobilization, you can only build military units (infantry, cavalry, tanks, etc.) and military improvements (barracks, civil defense, etc.) - the option to build things like a Temple don't even appear. However, each tile that produces at least 1 shield will produce an extra (sort of like a Golden Age, but not for commerce). While you get a boost militarily, your infrastructure and cultural improvements will be a bit lacking. All culture per turn from your city is halved as well (a temple that normally produces 2 culture/turn only produces 1).

While you can start Mobilization at any time, it only ends with a declaration of war/a treaty for peace. That is, there are two scenarios: one, you enter Mobilization in peacetime, and you build up your army pre-war - then, when you declare war, you'll be back to normal and will be able to build things as normal. Or two, you can be normal up until war, when you enter Mobilization to build units/military-related things until the war ends and peace is signed. Note: you don't have to enter Mobilization to fight in a war! It is just an option that is there if you think it will benefit you!

I have moved up the Con and CoL shown below with the current changes enabled. I've left the DOW and the DOM tentative for further discussion. Made prior changes permanent. Changed wording about Game Sessions in Article L of the Con and Section L.1 of the CoL. Added a paragraph for the Domestic Leader.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Demogame Constitution

The Laws of Fanatikos

To keep the DemoGame running smoothly we have created a set of rules by which we play. These rules (or laws) lay down all aspects of our Government; such as who does what job, how our leaders are elected and what we have to do if we want to change the Laws.

We have 2 Sets of laws; the highest set of laws is the Constitution, which gives the top level set of rules. This is backed up with the Code of Laws, which puts some more detail behind what the Constitution says.

Hopefully these Laws will answer your questions concerning the rules of the game, but if not, please do not post here but ask in the Judicial Thread in the Government Forum.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Constitution

We, the people of Fanatikos, in order to create an atmosphere of friendship, cooperation, and pride, establish this Constitution of our beloved country. We uphold the beliefs that each citizen must have an equal voice in the government and ruling of our country, that government itself is a construct of and servant to the people, that rules, regulations, and laws should be established to facilitate the active participation of all citizens and to make possible the dreams and desires of the citizens.

Here, there are many people involved with making the decisions on how the game is played. Instead of all sitting at the same computer, we use the forums to discuss the game with each other. To manage many people playing the game, a government has been formed to provide a structured way for everyone to be involved in the decision making process. We encourage all citizens to take an active part, and to act as a citizen would, to role play their views and actions.

This government is much like real life. It has a Constitution, a Code of Laws, and elections to select Leaders that are responsible for managing certain aspects of the game. Continue reading and you will find all you need to know to participate in the DemoGame.

Article A. Citizenship
Article B. Laws of Fanatikos
Article C. Game Structure
Article D. Government Structure
Article E. The Executive Branch
Article F. Legislative Branch
Article G. Judicial Branch
Article H. Elections
Article I. Governors
Article J. Will of the People
Article K.
Article L. Game Sessions
Article M. Playing the Save
Article N. Census, and Amending the Constitution

Article A. Citizenship
All Civfanatics Forum users who register in the Citizen Registry are citizens of our country, and members of the Assembly. Citizens have the right to assemble, the right to free movement, the right to free speech, the right to a fair trial, the right to representation, the right to request an investigation into possible violations of law and the right to vote. Political parties are not permitted.

Article B. Laws of Fanatikos
Governing rules shall consist of these Articles of the Constitution, such amendments that shall follow and lower forms of law that may be implemented. No rule shall be valid that contradicts these Articles.

These rules may not contradict the rules and regulations of the Civfanatics Forums. Moderators may veto any such rules.

Article C. Game Structure

Article D. Government Structure
The government will consist of the Executive Branch, the Legislative Branch and the Judicial Branch. All leaders must determine and implement the Will of the People. The number and type of offices which may be held by a citizen simultaneously may be limited if specified in a lower form of law.
Code of Laws Section D.1 Freedom of Information
Code of Laws Section D.2 Multiple Offices

Article E. The Executive Branch
The Executive branch is responsible for tasks and projects that affect the Nation and is headed by the President.
The President is responsible for control of the slider, worker allocation and resolving disputes between leaders, such as over use of gold. The President is also responsible for all tasks not assigned to another leader. The President is also held accountable for the playing of the save and the actions taken while playing the save. The consistant progression of the game as a whole is also the President's responsibilty

The Domestic Leader is responsible for all issues domestic not handled by the President. Organizes decisions about settler placement. Organizes departmental and provincial budgets. Is Governor of cities that do not have a Provincial/Expatriate governor. The Domestic Leader will also be responsible for all the duties of the game's Cultural Leader.

The Minister of Foreign Affairs is responsible for all matters involving treaties with foreign nations and all espionage activities. This includes Trade Embargoes, Military Alliances and the use of Spies to acquire technologies.

The Minister of Defense is responsible for the defense of Fanatikos and military planning. The Minister also controls the actions of all Military units.

The Minister of Trade and Technology is responsible for all trade initiatives and research goals. The Minister also coordinates any plans for spaceship construction.
Code of Laws Section E.1 City Placement and Naming

Article F. Legislative Branch
The Legislative Branch is formed of the Assembly.

The Assembly is made up of all citizens, and is responsible for the creation of new laws and Amendments. The Assembly will present all such proposals to the Judiciary for review.

The power to declare War is given to the Assembly, as is the power to Declare Mobilization.
Code of Laws Section F.1 Declaration of War
Code of Laws Section F.2 Declaration of Mobilization

Article G. Judicial Branch
The Judicial Branch will consist of one Chief Justice, one Public Defender and a Judge Advocate. These three justices are tasked with upholding, clarifying and reviewing all changes to the Constitution and its supporting laws through Judicial Reviews, and upholding the rights of all citizens through Investigations. The Judiciary will carry out all its tasks in a fair, impartial, public and speedy manner.
Code of Laws Section G.1 Judicial Procedures

The Chief Justice shall have the additional responsibility to organize and conduct the affairs of the Judicial Branch. The Public Defender will act as council to an accused citizen, if the accused citizen wishes. The Judge Advocate will act as the prosecution.

Article H. Elections
The Executive Branch positions, Governorships and the Judiciary positions are all elected positions with a fixed term not to exceed one month.
Code of Laws Section H.1 Elections
Code of Laws Section H.2 Designated Player Pool
Code of Laws Section H.3 Deputies
Code of Laws Section H.4 Vacancies
Code of Laws Section H.5 Confirmation Polls
Code of Laws Section H.6 Recalls

Article I. Governors
Governors are responsible for the well-being of the Provinces of Fanatikos. Each Province will have its own Governor. Each Governor is responsible for the care, management, and use of Province/Cities they control.

Each Governor may also setup a civic government for the cities they control in any manner they see fit that does not conflict with Fanatikos laws.

The Governors are also responsible for choosing a President should an election cycle complete with no citizen elected as President.
Code of Laws Section I.1 Gubernatorial Election of a President

Article J. Will of the People
Elected Officials must plan and act according to the Will of the People. The Will of the People is the aggregate wish of the citizens of our Fanatikos. It is determined by unanimity in a completed discussion, or by the majority vote in an official poll.
Code of Laws Section J.1 Polling Standards

Article K.

Article L. Game Sessions
There are two kinds of Game Sessions. One is an online TurnChat (TC), the other is offline both played by the President (DP), or any other approved DP. The default Game Session will be the online TurnChat (TC).

All irreversible game actions must be made by the President or his delegate (DP) during a game session using instructions posted in a game session instruction thread.

A special session to accomplish a specific, short goal may be held by the President if there is significant public support. These special sessions do not count as a regular game session.
Code of Laws Section L.1 Game Sessions

Article M. Playing the Save
Commission of any game action, by any person other than the Designated Player while carrying out their duties, which is not instantly reversible without reloading the save, is strictly forbidden.

Exception: Determining options in the renegotiation of Peace agreements requires an action of acceptance or war to exit the bargain screen. This may be done but the game must be immediately closed without saving.

Article N. Census, and Amending the Constitution
The Census is defined as the average number of votes cast, dropped fractions, in each of the contested elections in the most recent general election

Amendments to the Constitution must be posted as a Proposed Poll in the discussion thread for at least 24 hours prior to submission to the Judiciary. The discussion on the amendment must have lasted at least 48 hours.

Amendments must pass Judicial Review. If accepted, the Judiciary will post the poll. This poll will be open for 4 days, state the new text and the current text. To pass, an amendment must have a 67% majority of positive votes, ignoring Abstain, and have a total number of votes greater than 1/2 of the census.
Code of Laws Section N.1 Amending the Code of Laws
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Code of Laws

Section D.1 Freedom of Information
All elected officials will create an official thread. This thread will be used to provide updates to the citizens about their office. The information in this thread should updated frequently in order to accurately reflect the current game situation.

Section D.2 Multiple Offices
A citizen who holds a governorship may also hold one additional office which may be an executive office or another governorship. Citizens may only accept one nomination per election cycle. If more than one nomination is accepted the first one shall prevail. The second office held by a citizen, if any, must be by appointment to a vacant office. The order of the offices held by the citizen is immaterial (Governor then Executive, vs Executive then Governor), as long as the offices are combined as specified in this section.

Section E.1 City Placement and Naming
Discussions on city placement will be initiated by the Domestic Leader. Any citizen may post their opinion on any location. Names for all cities will be chosen by the Governor of the Province the city resides in. Alternatively, a discussion for naming a city will be lead by the Governor.

Section F.1 Declaration of War
To declare a war, the Minister of Foreign Affairs will create a normal poll for the Assembly. If more than 50% of the voters, not counting abstain, support the declaration, war can be declared.

Section F.2 Declaration of Mobilization
To declare Fanatikos in a state of Mobilization, any citizen may create a discussion thread about it. After more than 48 hours of posting, but less than 96 hours, a vote about the Mobiliztion shall be called for by the President, in the form of a Public Poll that will last 48 hours. If there are more votes in support of Mobilization than opposed at the close of the Poll, Fanatikos is to be placed in a state of Mobilization on the decided turn.

Section G.1 Judicial Procedures
The Chief Justice must post the Judicial Procedures by which they plan to run the Judiciary. These procedures are not binding until 2/3 of the Judiciary accepts the procedures. They may not be changed except through a unanimous decision by all members of the Judiciary. These procedures may not contradict the Constitution or the Code of Laws, but are considered law.

Section H.1 Elections
The Election Office, a citizen’s office supervised by the President, will perform all actions needed for each election cycle.

The regular election cycle starts at the posting of the nomination threads, and concludes when the last poll, including runoff polls, closes. Nomination threads will be posted 8 days before the end of the current term. Election polls will be posted 4 days later, and will list all accepted candidates for each election. Election polls will be marked public, and last for 3 days.

Each position will be granted to the candidate receiving the largest number of votes in that election. In the event of a tie between two or more front runners, a runoff poll shall be opened between those candidates only. This poll shall run for 2 days, and be repeated as often as needed to resolve the tie.

Except for the first term, all terms will start on the 1st of the month, and end on the last day of that month.

Section H.2 Designated Player Pool
During each regular election cycle, a separate thread will be created during the nomination process for DP Candidates. Any citizen that wishes to be a DP must post in this thread. When the election polls are posted, a separate poll, in multi-choice format, listing each candidate will be posted. Citizens will vote their approval for a candidate by selecting their name.

A citizen may run for any elected office and apply to be a DP in the same term. The DP Pool does not count as an elected office.

Each candidate that receives a vote from more than ½ of the citizens that vote in the poll will be accepted as a DP for that term. The Election Office will put together a list of the Designated Players, ordered by the number of votes in support for that term. In the event of a tie, the order of posting in the nomination thread will be used. All DPs that actually ran a game session in the previous term will be put below those that did not, regardless of the number of votes. This list will determine the order that the DPs will be used for game sessions. If there are more game sessions than DPs, start again from the top of the list.

Should the DP pool be empty, the President is responsible for determining who will be the DP for each game session, using any citizen of Fanatikos to serve as DP.

Members of the DP pool may exchange places as they desire, so long as all citizens involved agree.

Section H.3 Deputies
All Executive and Governor positions will have a deputy. The Deputy is permitted to conduct the affairs of the office as directed by the elected official, or during a planned Absence of the elected official. If no instructions have been posted for an office within 24 hours of the upcoming Game Session, the deputy for that office may post the official instructions for the office.

The Judiciary does not use deputies. In the event of an Absence, a pro-tem justice(s) may be appointed by the Chief Justice (or Judge Advocate if the Chief Justice if absent) and confirmed by the President and the remaining justice if not also absent.

If both the Chief Justice and the Judge Advocate are absent, the Public Defender may appoint pro-tems to the other seats, with Presidential approval.

Section H.4 Vacancies
The President will appoint a citizen to any Vacant office. If a deputy exists for that office, the President must offer the appointment to that citizen. This appointment may be challenged by any citizen by that citizen posting a confirmation poll within 24 hours of the appointment.

If an elected official does not post in the DG forums in 7 days without prior notice, any citizen may request the Judiciary to investigate. The Judiciary, by a majority vote, may declare the office Vacant at the conclusion of the investigation.

Section H.5 Confirmation Polls
A confirmation poll is used, where permitted by law, to give citizens the opportunity to challenge certain actions. If a challenge poll does not exist for such an action, any citizen may create such a poll. This poll must be created within 24 hours of the action, should ask “Do you approve of <description of action”>, contain Yes, No and Abstain options, and run for 2 days. If the action concerns a citizen, the poll must be marked private. Otherwise, it must be marked public. When the poll closes, if the majority of citizens, not including abstain, voted No, the action is overturned. Any other result confirms the action.

Section H.6 Recalls
Any citizen may create a thread requesting the recall of a specific elected official. This post must include the reason the recall is requested.

Should two additional citizens post in that thread supporting the recall within 24 hours of the initial post, the Chief Justice (or Judge Advocate if the recall is for the Chief Justice) must create a Recall poll. This is a private poll, asking in Yes/No/Abstain format if the elected official should be removed from office. This poll should run for 4 days.

If 2/3 of the citizens voting support the recall, ignoring abstain, and the total number of votes is greater than 1/2 of the census, the citizen is removed from office, and the office is declared Vacant.

A Recall may be requested no sooner than 7 days after a previous attempt in the same term on the same official.

Section I.1 Gubernatorial Election of a President
The Governors are responsible for choosing a citizen to serve as President if an election cycle completes with nobody no citizen elected to the office of President. A Governor will create a thread for interested citizens to post in, and be questioned by the Governors. 3 days after the creation of this thread, the Legislature will vote amongst all interested Candidates via Private Poll. The citizen receiving the most votes is elected President. If more than one citizen ties, a run-off election will be held between only those citizens.

Section J.1 Polling Standards
Polls posted by an elected official on an area they control are considered official and binding unless specifically stated otherwise. Polls posted by citizens, by officials outside their area or by officials in their area explicitly noted as such are considered unofficial, and do not bind officials in any way. Officials should, however, take such polls into account during planning.

The description and initial post for all official polls should be stated in a clear and neutral manner.

The initial post should contain a link to all relevant discussion threads. Each option should be explained if not immediately clear. The time frame for the poll, and how the results will be interpreted should also be in the initial post.

All official polls must be open for a minimum of 24 hours to be binding. They are strongly encouraged to be open for at least 3 days.

Official polls should be flagged as “Public” unless directly concerning another Citizen.

Section K.1

Section L.1 Game Sessions
All irreversible game actions should progress during an online turnchat, while reversible game actions (i.e. build queues) that adhere to legal instructions can be prepared offline. During each session, the designated player must provide a log of their actions in sufficient detail to replicate their actions. The President or his delegate may choose to play an offline Game Session rather than an online TurnChat, but must first get the approval of the people with a public poll.

The President will schedule all Game Sessions. The President is the Default Designated Player. If the President needs to, he or she may delegate a Game Session to a member of the Chain of Command. If a President or their delegate is more than 15 minutes late for an online TurnChat, it may be played by another member of the CoC, the highest ranking member having priority. A replacement DP must post in the Instruction thread that they are now taking and playing the save (putting a timestamp on their action).

A Game Session Instruction Thread must be created at least 2 days before the chat by the Designated Player for that session. Should a thread not be created in a timely manner, the President may create one. Game Sessions must be at least 3 days apart, no more than 7 days apart. The initial post should contain the date and time of the game session, a link to the save to be used for that session, and if the game session will be online or offline.

All official instructions must be posted in the current game session instruction thread. Instructions must be clear and defined. Officials must post their instructions at least one hour before the scheduled start of the game session. However, officials may make changes to their instructions up to an hour before the chat, so long as those changes are clearly noted in that official's Office Thread. Officials that do not post instructions for a game session are considered to have given the DP complete control over their area for that game session. If this happens in two consecutive game sessions, that Official is subject to a recall vote.

The game session may last for as long as there are relevant instructions, until a posted instruction says to hold the session or when the DP decides to end the session. Once a game session is over, DPs must post a summary of that session, a detailed log of their actions, relevant screenshots, and a save in the instruction thread and in the summary thread.

Section N.1 Amending the Code of Laws
Amendments to the Code of Laws must be posted as a Proposed Poll in the discussion thread for at least 24 hours prior to submission to the Judiciary. The discussion on the amendment must have lasted at least 48 hours.

Amendments must pass Judicial Review. If accepted, the Judiciary will post the poll. This poll will be open for 3 days, state the new text and the current text. To pass, an amendment must have a majority of positive votes, ignoring Abstain.

I think we should merge trade with foriegn affairs, and make science its only position.
Also do we need the senate?

I think we should merge trade with foriegn affairs, and make science its only position.
Also do we need the senate?
The Senate has been taken out I believe (the green text is on its way out).
A science leader alone basically could only do one thing, choose what technology to research. Even then this choice only occurs once every couple turn chats, but I do see your point because trade and relations cross over (like who has jurisdiction over a peace treaty involving a technology).

Perhaps we can eliminate the Trade & Science position altogether. Give the Foreign Affairs leader responsibility over trade and the Domestic Leader responsibility over technology. If one of these leaders feel like they have too much on their plate, they can assign their deputy to handle it. Like the Domestic Minister may give his/her deputy the power to decide on what technology to research.

The Senate has been taken out I believe (the green text is on its way out).
A science leader alone basically could only do one thing, choose what technology to research. Even then this choice only occurs once every couple turn chats, but I do see your point because trade and relations cross over.


I don't think there is a problem with having some positions with less to do, some people don't want to make as big a comitment.

I do like some positions that have a light work load, Nobody, just for that reason. That alone is a good enough reason to keep them, but another is by eliminating positions, we're shortening the Chain of Command, potentially jepardizing a save being played.

Good to have ya back, Nobody... I mean Hooray! Nobody's back... I mean... you know what I mean...

Put the Section about Mobilization in Section F.3

Now changed to Section F.2 of the CoL.

Changed the part about city placement to include the Domestic Leader and the naming of cities going to the Governors in CoL Section E.1

Took out the word nobody in CoL Section F.1 in case citizen Nobody is elected President.

And basically removed the Section of the CoL (H.2) that dealt with the DP (Designated Player).

The Game

We're almost done with the Constitution. Once we're finished, we will have our ruleset and DaveShack can request our forums. We can set up our forums in the traditional manner, which I have described in a previous post. One of the first threads in the main Forum will be the Citizen Registry. All civfanatic users who sign up for this Democracy Game in the Citizen Registry will be citizens of our future nation.

With our forums up and a growing population of citizens, we can determine what game specifics we want to play. This can be decided through discussion and polls. Everyone's input will be valued as an integral part of building our nation. One citizen equals one vote. As soon as we know game specifics (world size, number of AI tribes, etc), we can start on nominating our President and the President's cabinet, other-wise known as the Chain of Command (CoC). The Supreme Court will also be nominated at this time, as will the first Provincial Governor. That comes to 9 Nomination threads. In the future, the President will be responsible for posting these threads and maintaining the electoral process.

With elections over, we will be ready for Creation Day. An online TurnChat will be scheduled and our "real world" Civilization 3 Conquest (C3C) will begin.

So here's the gameplan in a nutshell ~
1. Finish ruleset
2. Get Forums authorized and put up.
3. Get the Citizen Registry started.
4. Game specifics/mechanics
5. Complete the Electoral Process
6. Creation Day

As this is a Democracy game, everything in this post is open to discussion and change. I just thought I would update our current status and our impending goals in this game.

looking at your laws,

what happened to article c?

Article I. Multiple Offices
The number and type of offices which may be held by a citizen simultaneously may be limited if specified in a lower form of law. seems pointless

k could be put under h

and im not a big fan of the constitution articles with little links to the col ones.

Excellent, Nobody. We could use more of your analytical eye. I'll make those changes and shift the Article/Section numbers.

Article C read as follows:

Article C. Game Structure
No more than 5 cities built by Fanatikos may exist at any time. In addition, only one city from each foreign civilization may be taken by any means. All other cities that we gain must be razed immediately.

Most of the people posting here stated they would prefer NOT to play the 5CC style game to bring back the Civ3 Demogame. Article C originally stated, as you can see, that the game was to be played as 5CC. So it was removed.

Moved Article I up into Article D, making the blurb about multiple offices part of Government structure.

Accordingly, moved CoL Section I.1 up to Section D.2 - Multiple Offices

For now, I will leave the Article I and Section I slots open as placeholders, in case we wish to insert a new Law.

Moved Article K up into Article H (big Article), and left that as a placeholder.

Moved Section K.1 up into Section H.6 (even bigger Section), leaving CoL Section K.1 as a placeholder.

I am a big fan of the Constitution Articles with little links to the CoL ones. I use them a lot, especially when I'm editing these things.

Any Constitution wizards out there that can see the need for a new Law or two? I have two placeholders waiting (I and K).

There is a reference to an expatriate governor. If we're not playing 5BC then the expatriate has little meaning. It was intended to be the governor of the captured cities, which are not geographically contiguous.

Not sure why the assembly section includes the governors. It made sense when there was an assembly and a senate, but without a senate the governors could be their own section.

The purpose of putting trade and technology together was to recognize the connection between research and trade. We research in order to be able to trade, and trade in order to not have to research. I thought the combination worked well in the two games where it was used, and would prefer to see it continue.

There is a reference to an expatriate governor. If we're not playing 5BC then the expatriate has little meaning. It was intended to be the governor of the captured cities, which are not geographically contiguous.
Believe it or not, there was a kind of expatriate governor used in DGs prior to number seven. Kind of a Governor in waiting for a Province to be announced. I'm not saying that this situation will come about, but I don't want to eliminate the possibility.

Not sure why the assembly section includes the governors. It made sense when there was an assembly and a senate, but without a senate the governors could be their own section.
Excellent point, DaveShack. I just never took them out. I will put them in one of our empty Article/Sections, as I really don't feel like transfering H to I.

The purpose of putting trade and technology together was to recognize the connection between research and trade. We research in order to be able to trade, and trade in order to not have to research. I thought the combination worked well in the two games where it was used, and would prefer to see it continue.
I have no problem with this idea. In fact, I believe that the Domestic Leader should handle all of the Culture Leader's responsibilties.

weren't they called governors at large? or something like that? could the domestic leader take care of citys until they join a state?

I think you're right about the Govs, Nobody.

The Domestic Leader part is already taken care of in Article E of the Con

Made the older changes permanent. Took the Governors from the Assembly (Article F) and put them in Article I. Did the same with Section F.1. Removed the (now) Gubernatorial Election of the President, and put it in Section I.1.

Also put in the sentance about the Domestic Leader assuming the responsibilities of the Culture Leader.

Did other cosmetic changes to show continuity.

Well, we gave it a shot. Too bad it didn't work. There's just not enough people here to play a DG. And that's a shame.

Thanks to everyone who did help. We gave it a good run. I'm done.

Umm, hold on a second there...

Just because we're not seeing a lot of action here doesn't mean it's dead. I was just about to ask what we want to use as a starting timeframe. Maybe with publicity it'll pick up. :)

Well, we gave it a shot. Too bad it didn't work. There's just not enough people here to play a DG. And that's a shame.

Thanks to everyone who did help. We gave it a good run. I'm done.
You're quitting? As DaveShack said, we can still give it a shot...

Ok, guess I had a bad night. I'd like to bring bck the Civ3 Demogame, I really would. It's the lack of participation that's bothering me. I've found over the years, if the participation is not there while the game is being put together, it more or less stays that way. Civ 3 is a blast and Demogames are even better, but only when you hve others to play with.

Let's see how close we cn get to Creation Day. DaveShack asked for a starting timeframe. On the last page, I put together a "things left to do" list. I'll post it below and put some dates on it. Tell me if you think this plan is feasible.

So here's the gameplan in a nutshell ~
1. Finish ruleset~ Let's say it's done basically. The changes will become permanent and if we want more, we can add to it later.
2. Get Forums authorized and put up.~ DaveShack said he's working on it. Maybe we can get an installation date from him.
3. Get the Citizen Registry started.~ This will be the first thread I post in the new forums, so as soon as they're ready, this will be done.
4. Game specifics/mechanicsLet's say the forums are put up in a couple of days. The Citizen's Registry is made and people start signing up. Threads can be posted for all the different game specifics. We've pretty much concluded that a smaller game would be better and will probably go with the Pangaea on a Standard map, but other specifics are still needed. So we're probably looking at 1 week's discussion on specifics and 3 days for any polls that are needed. This line puts us twelve days away.
5. Complete the Electoral ProcessThe Electoral Process takes a minimum of 8 days. I figure it can start up around the same time the polls go up for specifics. By starting up I mean the Nomination threads.
6. Creation Day~ All tolled, from the day the forums go up, I'd say we're looking at 2 weeks and 6 or 7 days for the actual Creation day. So three weeks.

Now if we wait until after the Super Bowl, we're probably looking at the weekend of February 21st/22nd for Creation Day (if the Forums are put up on the second of Feb.)

So the first term would start on Feb. 21st/22nd? I think it would make more sense to wait an extra week and start on March 1st, because the constitution fixes the length of office for elected officials to 1 month.

I agree, Black Hole. But this way we have a 6 day buffer, in case things don't go as planned.

Ok, guess I had a bad night. I'd like to bring bck the Civ3 Demogame, I really would. It's the lack of participation that's bothering me. I've found over the years, if the participation is not there while the game is being put together, it more or less stays that way. Civ 3 is a blast and Demogames are even better, but only when you hve others to play with.

Let's see how close we cn get to Creation Day. DaveShack asked for a starting timeframe. On the last page, I put together a "things left to do" list. I'll post it below and put some dates on it. Tell me if you think this plan is feasible.

So here's the gameplan in a nutshell ~
1. Finish ruleset~ Let's say it's done basically. The changes will become permanent and if we want more, we can add to it later.
2. Get Forums authorized and put up.~ DaveShack said he's working on it. Maybe we can get an installation date from him.
3. Get the Citizen Registry started.~ This will be the first thread I post in the new forums, so as soon as they're ready, this will be done.
4. Game specifics/mechanicsLet's say the forums are put up in a couple of days. The Citizen's Registry is made and people start signing up. Threads can be posted for all the different game specifics. We've pretty much concluded that a smaller game would be better and will probably go with the Pangaea on a Standard map, but other specifics are still needed. So we're probably looking at 1 week's discussion on specifics and 3 days for any polls that are needed. This line puts us twelve days away.
5. Complete the Electoral ProcessThe Electoral Process takes a minimum of 8 days. I figure it can start up around the same time the polls go up for specifics. By starting up I mean the Nomination threads.
6. Creation Day~ All tolled, from the day the forums go up, I'd say we're looking at 2 weeks and 6 or 7 days for the actual Creation day. So three weeks.

Now if we wait until after the Super Bowl, we're probably looking at the weekend of February 21st/22nd for Creation Day (if the Forums are put up on the second of Feb.)
Sounds good! Glad you're back in this.

No objections from me looks pretty good

The latest and greatest version.
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Demogame Constitution

The Laws of Fanatikos
To keep the DemoGame running smoothly we have created a set of rules by which we play. These rules (or laws) lay down all aspects of our Government; such as who does what job, how our leaders are elected and what we have to do if we want to change the Laws.

We have 2 Sets of laws; the highest set of laws is the Constitution, which gives the top level set of rules. This is backed up with the Code of Laws, which puts some more detail behind what the Constitution says.

Hopefully these Laws will answer your questions concerning the rules of the game, but if not, please do not post here but ask in the Judicial Thread in the Government Forum.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Constitution

We, the people of Fanatikos, in order to create an atmosphere of friendship, cooperation, and pride, establish this Constitution of our beloved country. We uphold the beliefs that each citizen must have an equal voice in the government and ruling of our country, that government itself is a construct of and servant to the people, that rules, regulations, and laws should be established to facilitate the active participation of all citizens and to make possible the dreams and desires of the citizens.

Here, there are many people involved with making the decisions on how the game is played. Instead of all sitting at the same computer, we use the forums to discuss the game with each other. To manage many people playing the game, a government has been formed to provide a structured way for everyone to be involved in the decision making process. We encourage all citizens to take an active part, and to act as a citizen would, to role play their views and actions.

This government is much like real life. It has a Constitution, a Code of Laws, and elections to select Leaders that are responsible for managing certain aspects of the game. Continue reading and you will find all you need to know to participate in the DemoGame.

Article A. Citizenship
Article B. Laws of Fanatikos
Article C. Game Structure
Article D. Government Structure
Article E. The Executive Branch
Article F. Legislative Branch
Article G. Judicial Branch
Article H. Elections
Article I. Governors
Article J. Will of the People
Article K. (reserved for a future Article)
Article L. Game Sessions
Article M. Playing the Save
Article N. Census, and Amending the Constitution

Article A. Citizenship
All Civfanatics Forum users who register in the Citizen Registry are citizens of our country, and members of the Assembly. Citizens have the right to assemble, the right to free movement, the right to free speech, the right to a fair trial, the right to representation, the right to request an investigation into possible violations of law and the right to vote. Political parties are not permitted.

Article B. Laws of Fanatikos
Governing rules shall consist of these Articles of the Constitution, such amendments that shall follow and lower forms of law that may be implemented. No rule shall be valid that contradicts these Articles.

These rules may not contradict the rules and regulations of the Civfanatics Forums. Moderators may veto any such rules.

Article C. Game Structure

Article D. Government Structure
The government will consist of the Executive Branch, the Legislative Branch and the Judicial Branch. All leaders must determine and implement the Will of the People. The number and type of offices which may be held by a citizen simultaneously may be limited if specified in a lower form of law.
Code of Laws Section D.1 Freedom of Information
Code of Laws Section D.2 Multiple Offices

Article E. The Executive Branch
The Executive branch is responsible for tasks and projects that affect the Nation and is headed by the President.
The President is responsible for control of the slider, worker allocation and resolving disputes between leaders, such as over use of gold. The President is also responsible for all tasks not assigned to another leader, to include those Offices which might be vacant.The President is also held accountable for the playing of the save and the actions taken while playing the save. The consistant progression of the game as a whole is also the President's responsibilty

The Domestic Leader is responsible for all issues domestic not handled by the President. Organizes decisions about settler placement. Organizes departmental and provincial budgets. Is Governor of cities that do not have a Provincial/Expatriate governor. The Domestic Leader will also be responsible for all the duties of the game's Cultural Leader.

The Minister of Foreign Affairs is responsible for all matters involving treaties with foreign nations and all espionage activities. This includes Trade Embargoes, Military Alliances and the use of Spies to acquire technologies.

The Minister of Defense is responsible for the defense of Fanatikos and military planning. The Minister also controls the actions of all Military units.

The Minister of Trade and Technology is responsible for all trade initiatives and research goals. The Minister also coordinates any plans for spaceship construction.
Code of Laws Section E.1 City Placement and Naming

Article F. Legislative Branch
The Legislative Branch is formed of the Assembly.

The Assembly is made up of all citizens, and is responsible for the creation of new laws and Amendments. The Assembly will present all such proposals to the Judiciary for review.

The power to declare War is given to the Assembly, as is the power to Declare Mobilization.
Code of Laws Section F.1 Declaration of War
Code of Laws Section F.2 Declaration of Mobilization

Article G. Judicial Branch
The Judicial Branch will consist of one Chief Justice, one Public Defender and a Judge Advocate. These three justices are tasked with upholding, clarifying and reviewing all changes to the Constitution and its supporting laws through Judicial Reviews, and upholding the rights of all citizens through Investigations. The Judiciary will carry out all its tasks in a fair, impartial, public and speedy manner.
Code of Laws Section G.1 Judicial Procedures

The Chief Justice shall have the additional responsibility to organize and conduct the affairs of the Judicial Branch. The Public Defender will act as council to an accused citizen, if the accused citizen wishes. The Judge Advocate will act as the prosecution.

Article H. Elections
The Executive Branch positions, Governorships and the Judiciary positions are all elected positions with a fixed term not to exceed one month.
Code of Laws Section H.1 Elections
Code of Laws Section H.2 Designated Player Pool
Code of Laws Section H.3 Deputies
Code of Laws Section H.4 Vacancies
Code of Laws Section H.5 Confirmation Polls
Code of Laws Section H.6 Recalls

Article I. Governors
Governors are responsible for the well-being of the Provinces of Fanatikos. Each Province will have its own Governor. Each Governor is responsible for the care, management, and use of Province/Cities they control.

Each Governor may also setup a civic government for the cities they control in any manner they see fit that does not conflict with Fanatikos laws.

The Governors are also responsible for choosing a President should an election cycle complete with no citizen elected as President.
Code of Laws Section I.1 Gubernatorial Election of a President

Article J. Will of the People
Elected Officials must plan and act according to the Will of the People. The Will of the People is the aggregate wish of the citizens of our Fanatikos. It is determined by unanimity in a completed discussion, or by the majority vote in an official poll.
Code of Laws Section J.1 Polling Standards

Article K.

Article L. Game Sessions
There are two kinds of Game Sessions. One is an online TurnChat (TC), the other is offline both played by the President (DP), or any other approved DP. The default Game Session will be the online TurnChat (TC).

All irreversible game actions must be made by the President or his delegate (DP) during a game session using instructions posted in a game session instruction thread by Leaders and Governors. These Instructions may only be altered by the Leader or Governor who posted them..

A special session to accomplish a specific, short goal may be held by the President if there is significant public support. These special sessions do not count as a regular game session.
Code of Laws Section L.1 Game Sessions

Article M. Playing the Save
Commission of any game action, by any person other than the Designated Player while carrying out their duties, which is not instantly reversible without reloading the save, is strictly forbidden.

Exception: Determining options in the renegotiation of Peace agreements requires an action of acceptance or war to exit the bargain screen. This may be done but the game must be immediately closed without saving.

Article N. Census, and Amending the Constitution
The Census is defined as the average number of votes cast, dropped fractions, in each of the contested elections in the most recent general election

Amendments to the Constitution must be posted as a Proposed Poll in the discussion thread for at least 24 hours prior to submission to the Judiciary. The discussion on the amendment must have lasted at least 48 hours.

Amendments must pass Judicial Review. If accepted, the Judiciary will post the poll. This poll will be open for 4 days, state the new text and the current text. To pass, an amendment must have a 67% majority of positive votes, ignoring Abstain, and have a total number of votes greater than 1/2 of the census.
Code of Laws Section N.1 Amending the Code of Laws
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Code of Laws

Section D.1 Freedom of Information
All elected officials will create an official thread. This thread will be used to provide updates to the citizens about their office. The information in this thread should updated frequently in order to accurately reflect the current game situation.

Section D.2 Multiple Offices
A citizen who holds a governorship may also hold one additional office which may be an executive office or another governorship. Citizens may only accept one nomination per election cycle. If more than one nomination is accepted the first one shall prevail. The second office held by a citizen, if any, must be by appointment to a vacant office. The order of the offices held by the citizen is immaterial (Governor then Executive, vs Executive then Governor), as long as the offices are combined as specified in this section.

Section E.1 City Placement and Naming
Discussions on city placement will be initiated by the Domestic Leader. Any citizen may post their opinion on any location. Names for all cities will be chosen by the Governor of the Province the city resides in. Alternatively, a discussion for naming a city will be lead by the Governor.

Section E.2 Worker Assignment and Allocation
The President has complete authority over Workers, as long as the President has a thread posted in the Citizen's sub-forum for Worker allocation. There the President must state in general terms what he or she plans on doing with the Workers during the next Turn Session and perhaps during the Term. In this thread, citizens can post their comments and complaints about the President's plan or execution of said plan. Governors may also post requests for Workers to do specific jobs in their Provinces in this thread. The President must try to honor these requests.

Section F.1 Declaration of War
To declare a war, the Minister of Foreign Affairs will create a normal poll for the Assembly. If more than 50% of the voters, not counting abstain, support the declaration, war can be declared.

Section F.2 Declaration of Mobilization
To declare Fanatikos in a state of Mobilization, any citizen may create a discussion thread about it. After more than 48 hours of posting, but less than 96 hours, a vote about the Mobiliztion shall be called for by the President, in the form of a Public Poll that will last 48 hours. If there are more votes in support of Mobilization than opposed at the close of the Poll, Fanatikos is to be placed in a state of Mobilization on the decided turn.

Section G.1 Judicial Procedures
The Chief Justice must post the Judicial Procedures by which they plan to run the Judiciary. These procedures are not binding until 2/3 of the Judiciary accepts the procedures. They may not be changed except through a unanimous decision by all members of the Judiciary. These procedures may not contradict the Constitution or the Code of Laws, but are considered law.

Section H.1 Elections
The Election Office, a citizen’s office supervised by the President, will perform all actions needed for each election cycle.

The regular election cycle starts at the posting of the nomination threads, and concludes when the last poll, including runoff polls, closes. Nomination threads will be posted 8 days before the end of the current term. Election polls will be posted 4 days later, and will list all accepted candidates for each election. Election polls will be marked public, and last for 3 days.

Each position will be granted to the candidate receiving the largest number of votes in that election. In the event of a tie between two or more front runners, a runoff poll shall be opened between those candidates only. This poll shall run for 2 days, and be repeated as often as needed to resolve the tie.

Except for the possibility of the first term being shorter, all terms will start on the 1st of the month, and end on the last day of that month.

Section H.2 Deputies
All Executive and Governor positions will have a deputy. The Deputy is permitted to conduct the affairs of the office as directed by the elected official, or during a planned Absence of the elected official. If no instructions have been posted for an office within 24 hours of the upcoming Game Session, the deputy for that office may post the official instructions for the office.

The Judiciary does not use deputies. In the event of an Absence, a pro-tem justice(s) may be appointed by the Chief Justice (or Judge Advocate if the Chief Justice if absent) and confirmed by the President and the remaining justice if not also absent.

If both the Chief Justice and the Judge Advocate are absent, the Public Defender may appoint pro-tems to the other seats, with Presidential approval.

Section H.3 Vacancies
The President will appoint a citizen to any Vacant office. If a deputy exists for that office, the President must offer the appointment to that citizen. This appointment may be challenged by any citizen by that citizen posting a confirmation poll within 24 hours of the appointment.

If an elected official does not post in the DG forums in 7 days without prior notice, any citizen may request the Judiciary to investigate. The Judiciary, by a majority vote, may declare the office Vacant at the conclusion of the investigation.

Section H.4 Confirmation Polls
A confirmation poll is used, where permitted by law, to give citizens the opportunity to challenge certain actions. If a challenge poll does not exist for such an action, any citizen may create such a poll. This poll must be created within 24 hours of the action, should ask “Do you approve of <description of action”>, contain Yes, No and Abstain options, and run for 2 days. If the action concerns a citizen, the poll must be marked private. Otherwise, it must be marked public. When the poll closes, if the majority of citizens, not including abstain, voted No, the action is overturned. Any other result confirms the action.

Section H.5 Recalls
Any citizen may create a thread requesting the recall of a specific elected official. This post must include the reason the recall is requested.

Should two additional citizens post in that thread supporting the recall within 24 hours of the initial post, the Chief Justice (or Judge Advocate if the recall is for the Chief Justice) must create a Recall poll. This is a private poll, asking in Yes/No/Abstain format if the elected official should be removed from office. This poll should run for 4 days.

If 2/3 of the citizens voting support the recall, ignoring abstain, and the total number of votes is greater than 1/2 of the census, the citizen is removed from office, and the office is declared Vacant.

A Recall may be requested no sooner than 7 days after a previous attempt in the same term on the same official.

Section I.1 Gubernatorial Election of a President
The Governors are responsible for choosing a citizen to serve as President if an election cycle completes with no citizen elected to the office of President. A Governor will create a thread for interested citizens to post in, and be questioned by the Governors. 3 days after the creation of this thread, the Legislature will vote amongst all interested Candidates via Private Poll. The citizen receiving the most votes is elected President. If more than one citizen ties, a run-off election will be held between only those citizens.

Section J.1 Polling Standards
Polls posted by an elected official on an area they control are considered official and binding unless specifically stated otherwise. Polls posted by citizens, by officials outside their area or by officials in their area explicitly noted as such are considered unofficial, and do not bind officials in any way. Officials should, however, take such polls into account during planning.

The description and initial post for all official polls should be stated in a clear and neutral manner.

The initial post should contain a link to all relevant discussion threads. Each option should be explained if not immediately clear. The time frame for the poll, and how the results will be interpreted should also be in the initial post.

All official polls must be open for a minimum of 24 hours to be binding. They are strongly encouraged to be open for at least 3 days.

Official polls should be flagged as “Public” unless directly concerning another Citizen.

Section K.1
(reserved for a future Section)

Section L.1 Game Sessions
All irreversible game actions should progress during an online turnchat, while reversible game actions (i.e. build queues) that adhere to legal instructions can be prepared offline. During each session, the designated player must provide a log of their actions in sufficient detail to replicate their actions. The President or his delegate may choose to play an offline Game Session rather than an online TurnChat, but must first get the approval of the people with a public poll.

The President will schedule all Game Sessions. The President is the Default Designated Player. If the President needs to, he or she may delegate a Game Session to a member of the Chain of Command. If a President or their delegate is more than 15 minutes late for an online TurnChat, it may be played by another member of the CoC, the highest ranking member having priority. A replacement DP must post in the Instruction thread that they are now taking and playing the save (putting a timestamp on their action).

A Game Session Instruction Thread must be created at least 2 days before the chat by the Designated Player for that session. Should a thread not be created in a timely manner, the President may create one. Game Sessions must be at least 3 days apart, no more than 7 days apart. The initial post should contain the date and time of the game session, a link to the save to be used for that session, and if the game session will be online or offline.

All official instructions must be posted in the current game session instruction thread. Instructions must be clear and defined. Officials must post their instructions at least one hour before the scheduled start of the game session. However, officials may make changes to their instructions up to an hour before the chat, so long as those changes are clearly noted in that official's Office Thread. Officials that do not post instructions for a game session are considered to have given the DP complete control over their area for that game session. If this happens in two consecutive game sessions, that Official is subject to a recall vote.

The game session may last for as long as there are relevant instructions, until a posted instruction says to hold the session or when the DP decides to end the session. Once a game session is over, DPs must post a summary of that session, a detailed log of their actions, relevant screenshots, and a save in the instruction thread and in the summary thread.

Section N.1 Amending the Code of Laws
Amendments to the Code of Laws must be posted as a Proposed Poll in the discussion thread for at least 24 hours prior to submission to the Judiciary. The discussion on the amendment must have lasted at least 48 hours.

Amendments must pass Judicial Review. If accepted, the Judiciary will post the poll. This poll will be open for 3 days, state the new text and the current text. To pass, an amendment must have a majority of positive votes, ignoring Abstain.


Made changes permanent.
Verified that the Judicial Reviews in Civ3 Demogame 7 were brought forward and blended in to this Constitution to eliminate those issues being Reiewed again unnecessarily. If they were not already written in, they are now posted in this color. If you have any concerns about the JRs or any other issue with this Constitution and/or Code of Laws, please post below.

Good to see theres still hope, i think maybe under article e, it could say something like president can carry out the fuctions of any office that is vacant, just so that in the event that we dont have as many players as we hoped for some small offices can just become the president.

Good to see theres still hope, i think maybe under article e, it could say something like president can carry out the fuctions of any office that is vacant, just so that in the event that we dont have as many players as we hoped for some small offices can just become the president.
Good point, Nobody. Our associate, Black Hole brought up the idea of making the DG7 Supreme Court rulings current in this game. Both Furiey and I agreed that this was appropriate and I believe this act is actually a done deal, but it is not on paper. Just reference. Here is the basic outcome of the Judicial Review on the matter ~

The President steppin in when neded. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3555108&postcount=21)

Even though it's covered in theory, I will update the Con to reflect the JRs.

I guess I've got time,,, :dunno:

Post #55

Updated the Con and CoL with the Judicial Review rulings in this color. Black Hole's post concerning the JRs is posted here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7663145&postcount=55). The issue in the post made by citizen Nobody (above) was already taken care of, but I added a blurb to cement it in.

So it looks like we have a constitution to get going with. Do we need to poll it to accept it or can we just get going?

Is the next step getting a forum created with a sign up thread?

Hi, Furiey. Yeah, the Con is ready. I on't think e need a poll to accept it. If we want to change it later, we can.

And yes, I believe DaveShack is going to set up the forums sometime after today.

When is this [party] starting?

Hey donsig. We're getting the forums put up soon. They will probably be in the Civ3 Section of the Forums. I will post here with a link when we're ready. Please come back and sign up in the Citizen's Registry thread.

waiting for demogame!!

Trust me, Nobody! :rotfl:
Everything is in the works and the DGRG1 will go Live from New York very soon.

Thread closed and maintained for posterity. Please direct new discussion to the citizen's forum.