Hello chaps:)

got a little project for someone who doesnt feel comfortable with the technical side of the mod but still wants to contribute.:)
Currently im working on getting the final units list for first release sorted but this means that I have fallen behind with units.:mischief:
Would some brave soul take up the obligations towards researching the missing units from this list, they are an important part of modern warfighting and I just plain dont have the time at the moment.

Armoured Personnel Carriers & Infantry Fighting Vehicles

- ACV-300 (Turkey)
-- Operators
--- 665 - Turkey (1,698 in total, only 665 inservice)
--- 136 - United Arab Emirates
--- 211 - Malaysia

Notes - Currently in Production

- AIFV (United States of America)
-- Operators
--- 25 - Bahrain
--- 514 - Belgium - Being phased out so probably less
--- 318 - Chile
--- 1207 - Egypt
--- 16 - Lebanon
--- 211 - Malaysia
--- 2000 - Netherlands
--- 85 - Philippine
--- 200 - South Korea under K-200 KAFV name
--- 1698 - Turkey
--- 133 - United Arab Emirates

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- AMX-10P (France)
-- Operators
--- 1050 - France
--- 25 - Bosnia and Herzegovina
--- 30 - Morocco
--- 40 - Qatar
--- 570 - Saudi Arabia
--- 22 - Singapore

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- AMX-VCI (France)
-- Operators
--- 382 - Indonesia

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- ATF Dingo (Germany)
-- Operators
--- 35 - Austria
--- 220 - Belgium
--- 563 - Germany
--- 34 - Czech Republic
--- 48 Luxembourg

Notes - currently in production

- AVGP (Switzerland)
-- Operators
--- 496 - Canada

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- Al Talha (Pakistan)
-- Operators
--- 2000 - Pakistan - that is 2000 by 2010,
--- 44 - Iraq

Notes - Currently in production

- BTR-3(Ukraine)
-- Operators
--- 6 - Azerbaijan
--- 3 - Ecuador
--- 336 - Iraq
--- 2 - Kazakhstan
--- 1000 - Burma
--- 96 - Thailand
--- 90 - United Arab Emirates
--- unknown numbers(few) - Ukraine

Notes - Currently in production

- BTR-4 (Ukraine)
-- Operators
--- unknown number(few) - Ukraine

Notes - Currently in production

- BTR-94 (Ukraine)
-- Operators
--- 50 - Iraq
--- unknown numbers, possibly similiar to Iraq - Jordan
--- unknown numbers - Ukraine

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- Boxer (Germany\Netherlands)
-- Operators
--- 0 - Germany (600 ordered)
--- 0 - Netherlands (400 ordered)

Notes - Currently in production

- Bravia Chaimite (Portugal)
-- Operators
--- 96 - Portugal
--- 16 - Libya
--- 32 - Peru
--- 20 - Philippines

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- Buffalo (South Africa)
-- Operators
--- 200 - United States of America
--- 5 - Canada - 14 more due for 2009
--- 5 - France
--- 0 - United Kingdom - 14 ordered for 2009

Notes - Currently in production

- Cobra BMT-2 APC (Iran)
-- Operators
--- unknown numbers - Iran

Notes - buildable starting unit.

- FV 101 Scorpion Light Tank (United Kingdom)
-- Operators
--- 36 - Botswana
--- 16 - Brunei
--- 29 - Chile
--- unknown numbers (small) - Honduras
--- 100 - Indonesia
--- 80 - Iran
--- 14 - Ireland
--- unkown numbers (not insignificant) - Jordan
--- 26 - Malaysia
--- 140 - Nigeria
--- 37 - Oman
--- 42 - Philippines
--- 154 - Thailand
--- 78 - Venezuela

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- FV103 Spartan (United Kingdom)
-- Operators
--- unknown numbers (few) - Iraq
--- unknown numbers (few) - Oman
--- 6 - Botswana
--- unknown, guestimate 300+ - United Kindgom

-Non buildable starting unit

- FV107 Scimitar Light Tank (United Kingdom)
-- Operators
--- 325 - United Kingdom

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- Condor (West Germany)
-- Operators
--- 8 - Kuwait
--- 457 - Malaysia
--- 12 - Portugal
--- 19 - Thailand
--- 64 - Uruguay

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- Dardo IFV (Italy)
-- Operators
--- 200 - Italy

Notes - Non buildabale starting unit

- Dzik - Poland
-- Operators
--- Uknown numbers - Poland

Notes - Currently in production

- EE-11 Urutu (Brazil)
-- Operators
--- unknown numbers - Bolivia
--- 215 - Brazil
--- 100 - Columbia
--- 30 - Ecuador
--- unknown numbers - Gabon
--- unknown numbers - Guyana
--- unknown numbers - Iraq
--- unknown numbers - Iran
--- unknown numbers - Libya
--- 10 - Paraguay
--- 20 - Saudi Arabia
--- unknown numbers - Sriname
--- 18 - Tunisia
--- unknown numbers - United Arab Emirates
--- 38 - Venezuela
--- 7 - Zimbabwae

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- FUG (Peoples Republic of Hungary)
-- Operators
--- unknown numbers - Hungary - reserves

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- International MaxxPro (United States of America\Israel)
-- Operators
--- 4471 - United States of America - 743 more ordered in 2008

Notes - In production

- KMW Grizzly (Germany)
-- Operators
--- unknown number (over 100) - Germany

Notes - In production

- LAV III (Canada)
-- Operators
--- 50 - Botswana
--- 651 - Canada
--- 105 - New Zealand
--- 31 - Romania

Notes - In production.

- LOV-1 (Croatia)
-- Operators
--- 45 - Croatia

Notes - non buildable starting unit

- M1117 Armored Security Vehicle (United States of America)
-- Operators
--- 7 - Bulgaria
--- 1118 - United States of America - 718 more on order in 2008
--- 106 - Iraq

Notes - Currently in production

Yes this would be a big contribution, hopefully someone will pick it up. Thanks in advance to anyone who does!

So basically, what you need someone to do is, compile a list of all the Armoured Personnel Carriers & Infantry Fighting Vehicles currently in service, and how many each country has. Just finishing the list you have there, essentially.

Perhaps you could help someone get started by pointing them to the sites you have been using to gather this information. I'm sure a potential researcher who is interested in the military side of things would like to work on this, but at the moment the project looks a little intimidating.

Yes this would be a big contribution, hopefully someone will pick it up. Thanks in advance to anyone who does!

So basically, what you need someone to do is, compile a list of all the Armoured Personnel Carriers & Infantry Fighting Vehicles currently in service, and how many each country has. Just finishing the list you have there, essentially.

Perhaps you could help someone get started by pointing them to the sites you have been using to gather this information. I'm sure a potential researcher who is interested in the military side of things would like to work on this, but at the moment the project looks a little intimidating.

Sure thing

wiki is a useful list (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Armoured_fighting_vehicles_of_the_post-Cold_War_period)

and the Gobal Security (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/index.html) country listings cant hurth either :)

Sweet, good stuff.

So that wiki list is basically the list to be used, and then it's just a matter of listing which countries have what numbers of each unit.

So who is going to be our deputy minister of defense and help out with this? lol

I'm currently doing all Technology entries, so I'll try and help with some of this when I'm finished (in a few years.. ;)).

One question (before I start research):

No one, as of yet, has been able to get the AI to use personnel carriers outside of the default transports in the game...

have you worked on this/fixed it for it to be necessary to put into the game and use?...

These (Armoured Personnel Carriers & Infantry Fighting Vehicles) are not going to transport other units, they are going to be fighting units.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/1BFV01.jpg

But to answer your question, yes and no. Worked on yes, fixed no.

I didn't think we'd be able to include new transport units (specifically our air transports), until I got an encouraging piece of advice (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=306288) today. I suspect this will work, I'll let you know.

what are the available units designed withing the game under each teams tech tree to be able to distribute ?

i.e usa in vanilla would have mech inf , stealth bombers , tactical nukes, tanks transports, sam inf, paratroopers, navy seal modern armour mobile sam , mobile artillery ICBM infantry jet fighter, destroyers ,anti tank, artillery attack sub, battleship , carrier, machine gun , missle cruiser, guided missles and submarine

what special units do you have in mind for the mod?

We may have one or two new units if I recall... ;-)

Here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=305312) is the list of military units we are including. We don't have it broken down on this forum by country. Edit: actually we do, you can go through this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=302916) thread if you would like to see which country gets which unit. We don't have a clean list with just that info as of now.

5 main civs will be able to build a wide variety of units (the arms dealers; US, NATO, EU, Russia, China.) For any other civ to build advanced military units, they will have to buy weapons licenses (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=303812) from one of those 5.

In addition, every civ is going to start with a unique unit they can build, typically with no resources. The list of ideas for these units is here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=303068), thanks to new team member sandman730.

Hope that answers your question!

but basicly i'd have one unit representing 1000 men , therefore a tenth of a division , therefore USA would receive roughly 30 infantry units to represent the 2nd and 25th infantry divisions and the 10th mountain division with a dozen or so sam infantry and anti tank infantry to make them a unit

*note the marines and airborne divisions would be paratroopers and marines , this is purely to explain the distribution of infantry

The ratio(s) we end up with will depend on how many units we can include on the map without overloading it.

kuff dam, i like the ideas.

Alas if we followed that think of the size of Chinease & North Korean armies, let alone India, turns would take a fortnight :p

well in that case 2 units per division to make it both realistic and actually playable without a real life week long pause between each turn

so , the states would get groundforce-wise

6x mech inf units (representing 1st, 3rd, and 4th inf div)
4x Modern armour units (1st Armoured, 1st cav div)
4x inf divs (2nd , 25th div)
2x paras for 101 airbourne div
2 x helicoptors for 83nd airbourne
6x marines for 2nd, 3rd, 4th marine corp
2x navy seals for 1st marine corp

that way there's loads more room for missles and nukes and planes and boats

One question (before I start research):

No one, as of yet, has been able to get the AI to use personnel carriers outside of the default transports in the game...

have you worked on this/fixed it for it to be necessary to put into the game and use?...


Hey bud, have you started/are you still planning to start this, or should we be looking for someone else to do it?

Let me or sheep21 know if you need anything or have any questions.

Guys, first of all, I'd like to put my hand up to help... please PM me if you'd like my assistance in researching the A-VEH's :)

Secondly, I'd like to suggest a "one unit per Brigade Group" scale. So, to use a smaller NATO/Western Division for example, taking a unit like 1st Australian Division, you could represent it pretty accurately with one MBT (As it has an Armoured Brigade), one Mech Inf (As it has a Motorised Brigade), and one Infantry or Marine (As the other brigade is basically light infantry).

Likewise as different examples, those larger US Divisions which are configured to have more brigade groups would have a proportionately higher level of firepower as they'd have more "Units" in them? The challenge here would be not sure how you'd incorporate augmented assets like Aviation (for US 101st Abn as an example), or even trickier - how would you represent units like the UK's 16th Air Assault Brigade? It's a rotary wing deployed unit for the most part - would you use a Paratrooper unit to represent it, or a Gunship? Or a Transport Helicopter with a Paratrooper or Infantry unit and have it represented thusly by two units?

Some questions there.. anyway and in any case, happy to help out with the IFVs/APCs as necessary.

One-Three-Foxtrot-One, Out. :)

Anton, sent you a PM
welcome to the team!

Regarding unit scaling your's seems to make sense the most, its one of the few things up for discussion still. 16th should probs be best represented by a Apache & Infantry unit of some sort (always found the paratrooper unit in civ fairly weak though...).

Yes this would be a big contribution, hopefully someone will pick it up. Thanks in advance to anyone who does!

So basically, what you need someone to do is, compile a list of all the Armoured Personnel Carriers & Infantry Fighting Vehicles currently in service, and how many each country has. Just finishing the list you have there, essentially.

Perhaps you could help someone get started by pointing them to the sites you have been using to gather this information. I'm sure a potential researcher who is interested in the military side of things would like to work on this, but at the moment the project looks a little intimidating.
I'm doing a new version of dardo ifv - japan type 89 ifv - amx10p... whta do you mean with "non buildable starting unit"?

We would love to include your new version of the dardo ifv when it is ready!

"non buildable starting unit" means that a vehicle is in service, but not in production. So for our 2009 scenario, some countries will start with the unit (the ones that have them in reality), but no one will be able to build more.

There are a few more of your works that we would love to use in our mod as well. The T-90, type 74, the infantry packs. Thanks for making all these, great work.

All the units we need art for are listed in our Unit art thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=305312). The only units missing there are the IFVs, most of which are listed above. If you ever do any additional units from that list, we would love to include them as well. We have a great team of modders here, but we are currently short on artists!

Thanks guys... I've started poking around to complete the list, I'll let Sheep know what I find... :)

Bear in mind my net access is a bit scratchy for now... I'm at the "Outlaws'" place in Kuala Lumpur. Will be considerably more "constant" when I'm home. :)

Oh, one more thing... for now I'm going to limit my researching efforts to IFV/APCs ONLY... so I'm excluding IMVs, IIMVs or any other Infantry vehicles, be they A-VEHs (Armoured - eg the Bushmaster IMV/PMV) or B-VEHs (Typically Unarmoured - Landrover IIMV, HMMWV). Please let me know if we need to expand to include IMVs, although we may be opening a tin of worms with that one ;) :)

Great, thanks Uncle Anton.

So, what's this Outlaws place?

Great, thanks Uncle Anton.

So, what's this Outlaws place?

Heh.... Well I haven't proposed to their daughter JUST yet, so technically they're not inlaws. :)

My partner is originally from Malaysia, and although we live in Australia, we make the trip back for Chinese New Year every year... I bring my laptop, but it means scratchy net access, at best. :)

lol, that's hilarious. I didn't get it.

Good luck with that bud.

You're our first Australian team member if I'm not mistaken, but I could be. Not everyone has their location in their profile.

My girlfriend is in Sydney right now. The main reason I have so much time to put in to this mod these days. :-)

Isn't Genghis Kai from Australia, too?

I think he is from Hong Kong.

We would love to include your new version of the dardo ifv when it is ready!

"non buildable starting unit" means that a vehicle is in service, but not in production. So for our 2009 scenario, some countries will start with the unit (the ones that have them in reality), but no one will be able to build more.

There are a few more of your works that we would love to use in our mod as well. The T-90, type 74, the infantry packs. Thanks for making all these, great work.

All the units we need art for are listed in our Unit art thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=305312). The only units missing there are the IFVs, most of which are listed above. If you ever do any additional units from that list, we would love to include them as well. We have a great team of modders here, but we are currently short on artists!
You can use everything You want :). The merkava is not mine... I only modified the Sharick's merkava modern armor to the ifv version :).
I've already done the Type 89 japanese mechanized infatry, I'm doing now a better version of the Dardo, I will try to improve the problems with the texture for the Warrior, and I will do a 2nd version of the marder and the amx10p :)

Concerning nuclear weaponry...what will the unit scaling be?
Just yesterday I there was a diagram in my newspaper displaying the estimated numbers of nuclear weapons in 2008, according to the Federation of American Scientists and the National Resources Defence Council. It said:
- Russia 14.000
- USA 5.400
- France 350
- China 200
- Great Britain 200
- Israel 80
- Pakistan 60
- India 50
- North Korea ?

Basically I suggest a 1 unit per 50 scale, except for USA and Russia. Their numbers are so ridiculously high that they each need an own scale. I suggest 1 unit per 100 for USA and 1 unit per 200 for Russia. This would make Russia still have more than USA but it doesn't need to be 3 times as high since they are enough to destroy the whole world either way.

This would mean
Russia 70
USA 54
France 7
China 4
UK 4
Israel 2
Pakistan 1
India 1
North Korea 1

Of course we'll have to distinguish between ICBMs and Tactical Nukes...

I think he is from Hong Kong.

I was born in Hong Kong and am in Hong Kong right now. But I have spent more than half of my life living in Sydney. So I would consider myself as an Aussie too (and that little book allowing me to travel around said that too) ;)

You can use everything You want :). The merkava is not mine... I only modified the Sharick's merkava modern armor to the ifv version :).
I've already done the Type 89 japanese mechanized infatry, I'm doing now a better version of the Dardo, I will try to improve the problems with the texture for the Warrior, and I will do a 2nd version of the marder and the amx10p :)


Fantastic. :D


I was born in Hong Kong and am in Hong Kong right now. But I have spent more than half of my life living in Sydney. So I would consider myself as an Aussie too (and that little book allowing me to travel around said that too) ;)


Ahh I see, cool.

ininsane, we haven't figured that out yet, but your sliding scales doesn't work. Huge disadvantage to Russia. 70 nukes is far from enough to take out the entire world in the game. With SDI, it's hardly enough to take out one country.

That's right. I didn't think about SDIs... So if we use the same scales we'd have 280 nuclear warheads for Russia and 108 for USA. But won't that slow down the game too much?

We'll see I guess! lmao

We may have to wait until we see what the map is like with all our civs, before we decide on unit ratios.

ianinsane, I'm heading out for a couple hours for dinner, I'll respond to your post in the techs thread when I get home. I'll post the original idea I had for social techs along with a clearer explanation of why I left it out, and we can talk further.

Love the avatar btw. ;-)

That sounds good. I'll probably (or hopefully) be sleeping then but I'm looking forward to reading it tomorrow morning.

*bump*

if anyone wants to take this on and help Uncle Anton, he hasnt been around in awhile. Probably having too much fun in RL!

Pretty Please?