I was having an interesting game, when Kublai K kept switching in and out of weehorn on me. And then attacked me while we had been at friendly for over a thousand years.

I couldn't believe it, so I reloaded to test and sure enough, never fails. Being at friendly doesn't make a difference, he still goes wehorn and attacks.

I also made certain there were no resolutions against me, etc. There wasn't even a bribe as everyone liked me.

I looked up the Civ reference sheet, and it mentions 10% bs for pleased, but 0% for Friendly.

So either there is a misprint there, or it's a bug. Or possible changes in the last patch?

If he went into wheooh before switching to friendly, he can still attack, apparently. It only counts his attitude when he first makes the decision.

The problem with long-time wheooh might be because he hasn't found a way to attack you until much later in the game. I've seen it happen when an AI is on the same landmass but behind an uninterrupted chain of mountains, or when it's separated by a small amount of water. In both cases it doesn't seem to figure out it needs (more) ships to get its troops in place for the attack. So he'll stay and stay and stay until one day suddenly it finds itself having those ships, and then ka-boom! And yeah, the decision was certainly taken before becoming friendly, no AI will decide to attack you while being friendly.

AI's can attack in Wheoohrn if they took the decision when they were not as friendly as they are right now
its happened to me atleast thrice once with shaka next with alex and the third with justin

No, maybe I didn't make it clear enough. He was switching in and out of wehorn WHILE we were at friendly. And never once did our relations falter.

I know there is a problem in the game where the code goes through some weird routines DURING TURNS, you can see this on maps with lots of units where things SLOWWWWW down because you'll see during the wait they swap from pleased to friendly to pleased while you are waiting for the AI's to do their decisions. I assume this could be responsible for this BUG. I call it a BUG, because if we assume the tech ref sheet is correct, then it has to be.

Ah, understood. Yeah, that sounds like a bug. Something's not consistent in the algorithm, either the decision was taken before and the wheooh status is faulty, or the inability to decide to declare at friendly is bugged.

would guess instability between friendly/pleased.

Once i was isolated with Zara. Suddenly he proposes trade IW for Aesthetics or something like that. He is marked as friendly at that moment. Despite trade on my turn he appears to be only pleased and keeps all his monopoly techs.

I would say KK dropped to pleased at his turn and managed to get hands full. I really hope that is not a feature.

No I think he decided to declare war at friendly. I have had a similar issue before with Justinian. It's rare that it happens but it does. Probably a bug in the code.

If you think it's a bug, post a save.

No, maybe I didn't make it clear enough. He was switching in and out of wehorn WHILE we were at friendly.
Man, that's strange and if confirmed, an ugly bug. You spend so much time managing your diplomacy right, learning about AI attitudes, reading out-of-the manual info in the XMK configurations file, to end up screwed because the interface is lying to you. :mad:

I remember being declared upon by a Friendly AI after I took one or two vassals... Made me want to throw the damn computer out of a window. :mad:

I remember being declared upon by a Friendly AI after I took one or two vassals... Made me want to throw the damn computer out of a window. :mad:

that situation is different, he's declaring on your vassal

that situation is different, he's declaring on your vassal
Technically, no : the AI attitude towards me is not calculated as the average of me and my vassal. And the interface is lying to me saying Ragnar is Friendly (when he's actually Cautious). It's the lying part that is wrong, not his will to DoW me or my vassal.

I know that the situation is wildly different : I just wanted to sympathize and say that the interface should never lie to you.

I did post a save a couple of months ago but nobody really looked into it. I think the save was lost when CFC got hacked.

would guess instability between friendly/pleased.

Once i was isolated with Zara. Suddenly he proposes trade IW for Aesthetics or something like that. He is marked as friendly at that moment. Despite trade on my turn he appears to be only pleased and keeps all his monopoly techs.

I would say KK dropped to pleased at his turn and managed to get hands full. I really hope that is not a feature.

Well this reminds me, why is it... if you are at friendly with someone. And you decided to trade techs with someone who ISN'T their worst enemy... sometimes you STILL get a -1 hidden modifier? I know I'm getting some negative ratings on this because the attitude changes in the same turn right after the trades.

:mad::mad::mad:

Typical Firaxis, a ton of modifiers and no way for its players to know what is going on under the hood. Why even bother coding the stuff in the first place? :confused:

Well, in some ways, if you put everything out in the open, it would probably make it too easy. If before a deal there was a pop-up being like, "warning, if you do this deal, Zara will think less of you! Proceed anyways?" it takes some of the "randomness" out of the diplomacy. Having some hidden modifiers makes you have to play it different.

I missed your way of thinking, obsolete. That was just me and Zara. The point is on his turn he had different attitude and made decision based on it. On my turn (before and after proposal) we were at pleased. On his friendly. No ideas what modifier was that.

Well this reminds me, why is it... if you are at friendly with someone. And you decided to trade techs with someone who ISN'T their worst enemy... sometimes you STILL get a -1 hidden modifier? I know I'm getting some negative ratings on this because the attitude changes in the same turn right after the trades.

:mad::mad::mad:

Typical Firaxis, a ton of modifiers and no way for its players to know what is going on under the hood. Why even bother coding the stuff in the first place? :confused:


This may be from your ranking on the leaderboard. I forgot which way it goes but I think the AI gives you a negative attitude adjustment if you're on the top half of the leaderboard. So if you trade for a tech and it bumps your score, the AI may suddenly not like you as much :lol:

*dumb nooblet interjection*

what does Wheoohrn mean? Along similar lines too, is there any place on the web where all the arcane terms/acronyms are defined (I can figure out most, but the ones I cant, im absolutely clueless about)

*dumb nooblet interjection*

what does Wheoohrn mean? Along similar lines too, is there any place on the web where all the arcane terms/acronyms are defined (I can figure out most, but the ones I cant, im absolutely clueless about)

"We Have Enough On Our Hands Right Now" (They decided to attack somebody... maybe you!)

We Have Enough On Our Hands Right Now.

Basically a prelude to an invasion. just hope it's not you - as a target.

Did you have a vassal? If so then this is a "known bug that isn't a bug", much like getting an AI to switch ANY civic while it's in its favorite civic.

weehorn, lol.