The proposed payment for the citizens in the rpg is:
+5 President
+4 Department Leader, Governor, Judiciary, Moderator, Vice President, RPG Manager
+3 Deputy, Acting Governor
+2 Honored Citizens, High Unelected Government Positions (Chat Representative, Citizen Registry, Citizen Honors, etc.)
+1 RPG Assistants, Low Unelected Government Positions (Mayors, etc.)


Now for me, there are some "bugs" in this proposal:

1) it was not broadly discussed with citizenry
2) only few citizens decided upon it
3) +14gpt basepay for moderators (=shaitan+eyrei=10+4gpt) is FAR too high!
4) mayors are not treated right!
5) rpg manager is unelected, but payed like elected persons!

now details:
1-2) is clear

3) moderators should get a maximum of 1 gpt if even any special pay. they can run for a position and EARN their money. they should maybe get a 1gpt plus because they cant run for president. when they get 4gpt, they could easily earn 18gpt, which is 3gpt more than the president, by just getting a judical job! this is crazy and imho unfair

4) mayors are as important as office heads. why pay them less? just because the few people who discussed this were against it? or is there any real reason?

5) rpg manager should be payed like any other unelected high position. not double the amount! i wonder who put this proposal up ;-)

discussion please....

now my proposal is:
+5 President
+4 Department Leader, Governor, Judiciary, Vice President
+3 Deputy, Acting Governor
+2 Honored Citizens, High Unelected Government Positions (Office Heads, Mayors, RPG Manager, Ambassadors)
+1 RPG Assistants, Chat Representatives, Low Unelected Government Positions (office deputies, helpers, Moderators, Attachees)


Advantage:
* all unelected high-officials get the same 2gpt
* all unelected low-officials (deputies, helpers) get the same 1gpt

high officials:
any person creating and maintaining a thread and with this helping to organize the citizens or the forum and game itself. this includes the office-heads and the ambassadors as well as mayors

low officials:
all helpers of high officials or department leaders. this includes the chat representatives.

moderators:
the positions of the moderators is debattable, but should not exceed 2gpt as this is the highest non-elected pay. if we pay them more, we should also elect them :-P



no special treatment of anybody...
=fair!

also Chat reps get 2? yes maybe this should be but they are just there for the chat incase a deputy can't make it when the Leader isn't available.

i think as they have the decission right in chat, they could. but on the other hand you are right... they maybe should only get 1gpt like all helpers... at the end, they dont have real work here ;-)


EDITED 2nd post:
payment of chat-reps changed to 1gpt.

I think mods should be 3 gpt.

will my honor from the banquet count?:D

NO! that is totally unfair.

they can hold a government leader position in addition to their 3gpt. so they would earn 17 gpt then.

as moddism is not electable, they should get payed as much as any other nonelected person here.

also, the higher payments for nonelected persons were denied before because of the fact they were not elected (for example some offices are even more work than deputying a departement). so we should handle all our citizen with equal measures.

as such, the mods can earn a MAX of 2gpt, as this is the max for unelected citizens. same for rpg-leader.

What about cost for setting up shop? (negative 'pay')

You'd need to hire people to build a shop.
Pay to rent one
or, build one (mud hut, mud brick, stones, stone w/clay walls, etc.), then pay a maintnence fee. :)


It's probably it's own discussion, though...

yes it is ct. any1 can have additional jobs in any shop to earn extra money. this is just the governmental payment. as such, it MUST be discussed.


EDITED 2nd post to reflect what is meant with high- and low officials. also clarified the moderator position.

edit- your edits are wrong.
as keeper of the rpg site AND devloper of the system in question, i feel you are causing a ruckus over nothing.
First- Mayors get 2gpt. You sugested that earlier and i complied.
Second- Chat reps pay has been 3gpt since the begining. I feel for them, having to attend ever turn chat. It was never turned to 1gpt.
Third- Mods get 2gpt. They are non-government positions. It is in plain Black and white. I request to learn your sources for this.

rpg manager is a position similar to leader. he "leads" (note use of leads) the entire rpg. strider deserves this pay.

dis, the reason mods warrant a higher pay is that we have to read a whole lot of stuff that may or not be at all interesting to us, we have to set up elections and nomination threads, move threads, etc. IMO we should be paid far more than mayors who technically only have to read one thread to do their job.

Also, to all of you:

You should probably start being more democratic in your decisions. I don't see any reason you cannot post polls in this forum (not the polls forum please). Use them to find out what the majority wants.

@eyrei: so this is something strange, as shaitan told us polls belong in the polls forum and discussion in the citizen forum... please contact each other for a synchronized modding ;-)

@stuck: i repeated shaitans rule-post in the first post of this thread. the problem with strider is: he is NOT elected. of course he deserves it, but he also, like the mods, is NOT elected and as such is not eligable for more than 2gpt. the chat-reps were put down by me as they normally have no work at all because they only go in there on emergency. and also, they are not elected.
i suggest you complain to shaitan, his rule post is here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=451737#post451737
and as i said, this was the most up to date post of the values with an official character. (hey, learn the sources yourself :-P).
as i interpret you right, you comply except for the rpg-leader?
this can be resolved if we elect him, for example. i would then comply to get him up a leader position payment.
EDIT:
btw the 2nd post is a proposal of me where to change it to. the 1st one is the original posted by shaitan as the latest ruleset.

@all:
if we comply on the ability of non-elected persons to earn as much as elected persons (!now, comeon! i proposed this earlier and was tared and feathered for it!), we should also go forward and give the office heads as much as the governors, as they also have a huge pile of work to do.
i would rather prefer to get the rpg-leader elected though, as i think the 2gpt line for non-elected citizens is a good one!

I seriously doubt Shaitan wants RPG polls in the polls subforum, but I could be wrong. The reason polls were moved out of the citizen and governments forums in the first place was to keep them separate because they are very important to the game. RPG polls are important only to the RPG forum, so they should be here.

as said, please talkback on shaitan and then inform us on the streamlined mod-opinion ;-) i already ran into modding with a discussion i put in here and i am awaiting moval of this discussion to the citizen forum too ;-)

I just noticed yet another problem: the acting governors should of course also only be payed 2gpt. not 3gpt.
i edit my 2nd post for this one, too.

EDIT: i did not edit my post yet. up for discussion at first :-)
still, i think no elected official should be up for 3gpt or all office heads should go there.
any other proposals/opinions?

EDIT2:
does the acting governor run thru a acceptance poll?
if yes i think he could go to 3gpt

we could resolv other issues with this also:
* we run election for rpg-manager (each term!)=4gpt for him. we run acceptance poll for him (for whole game)=3gpt for him
* if we run acceptance polls for chat-reps, they could also get 3gpt.

the rules would be:
5gpt=president
4gpt=regularly elected positions
3gpt=appointed/volunteer deputies for above or appointed gamelong leader with acceptance polls
2gpt=appointed/volunteer positions without acceptance polls
1gpt=appointed/volunteer helper/deputies without accetance polls

the mods would then be also 2gpt... sorry for the glinch :-P

EDIT3:
only disadvantage: we need to change some rules... to enforce acceptance polls sometimes.
btw: the above rules are only to show how the positions were split up. of course, the list should contain the positions eligable for this! not that some office head thinks he can put his deputy for acceptance poll just to get him more money!

i think most of the issues would be resolvable this way... any thoughts?

@eyrei - I did say to put all of the discussions in the discussion forum and polls in the poll forum. Polls are polls and discussions are discussions and decent thread titles plus the indexes (if properly used) will prevent any confusion.

Here's what I have for the rules right now. No arbitrary statements please. If you are displeased with one or more items, debate why they should be changed. My basic criteria was to reward higher requirement job classes with more salary. Higher rank jobs are above lower rank jobs. The exception is the mod salary. Although we're spending a tremendous amount of time each day on the forums doing our jobs there is too much resistance against us being paid accordingly and I don't feel like arguing about it.

Here it is:

+5 President

+4 Department Leader, Governor, Judiciary, Vice President, RPG Managers

+3 Deputy, Acting Governor

+2 Honored Citizens, High Unelected Positions (Chat Representative, Citizen Registry, Citizen Honors, Moderators, etc.)

+1 RPG Assistants, Low Unelected Positions (Mayors, Art Museum Curator, etc.)

Originally posted by Shaitan
@eyrei - I did say to put all of the discussions in the discussion forum and polls in the poll forum. Polls are polls and discussions are discussions and decent thread titles plus the indexes (if properly used) will prevent any confusion.

Sorry, I don't share your faith in those indexes, but ok.:p I am worried there could be an awful lot of them however...

Originally posted by eyrei
dis, the reason mods warrant a higher pay is that we have to read a whole lot of stuff that may or not be at all interesting to us, we have to set up elections and nomination threads, move threads, etc. IMO we should be paid far more than mayors who technically only have to read one thread to do their job.


eyrei, if you don't want to be a mod, i can mod for you. You don't have to do it, so your post kinda isn't any good. ;)

Civanator, it's not a question of wanting to be a mod or not. Obviously both eyrei and I want to be mods or we wouldn't be mods. Just like the President wants to be a President and the Judge Advocate wants to be the Judge Advocate. Those positions are compensated correctly relative to the other positions. Mods, at +2, are obviously not being compensated according to their duties and responsibilities.

But see, you want to be a mod. you don't have to be a mod. It is like a volunteer status. 2+ i'll go with, and i might go with 3, but not 4.

shaitaneyrei: the problem is: the max pay for unelected positions is 2gpt imho. this also is for mods. otherways, you, shaitan, for example, would gain too much money from it: 4+4+10=18gpt! this is 3gpt more than the president!
the president should be the highest income we have from state.

@ Civanator - I still don't understand what you're saying. Everybody wants their position. Nobody has to run for a position. Everything in and about these forums is on a volunteer basis.

@disorganizer - What's the other +4 for? Am I getting a special "Shaitan" bonus? :lol:

As far as I can tell I would be getting 14. 10 base and +4 mod. The President would be getting 15. 10 base and +5 President.

Or are you assuming I'm going to be the Chief Justice at an additional +4? I'm obviously not as I'm not running for the position. Or are you suggesting that if a mod takes additional jobs, they should not accumulate pay like other players?

Should nobody be able to make more than 15g in any case? We can make a ceiling on salary if you'd like. Maybe a floating ceiling where nobody can get more salary than the President.

@Shatian: 4gpt was assuming you get the highest position which would suit a mod. worst-case scenario

BUT:
This is a good point:
Now we could give the mods a fixed payment of 14gpt no matter which other job they take in addition to modding. This would also encourage them to not take any game-jobs :-)
Example:
Shaitan (sorry its always you) is mod and gets the judical job.
He would get only 14gpt, as this is the base payment for mods. Nothing more. Even if he also is mayor and a office head, the only gets 14gpt.

Can we go with that compromise? Mods will then be exactly payed like a leader.

Of course, a mod can get additional money by opening a private business, if that does not conflict with his impartiality or any other job... for example as shaitan has a law business, he would not be able to maintain it as judical leader...

That's not a bad idea, dis. It would encourage mods to concentrate on modding. If they do take another position it's definitely not for more cash then but a labor of love.

I would like one exception to that though - Honors. Those should apply no matter what as they are the public's way to reward exceptional service.

In an effort to create some sense of order, this thread is being archived. Discussion on the demogame rules should be directed to this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30868).