The major news is that we got a second legion from the last hut and the legion from that hut has found another one. The original legion is exploring the NW.

The chariot followed the river south and around a bit and thats why it isn't going south at the moment, especially since it would waste movement points going through the forest etc.

It looks like the archer has one square left to explore, so where should it go next? And the Horse is one turn away from the city so there will not be any civil disorder. Every unit has moved this turn but I stopped so that we can decide about the hut and the archer. Also should the chariot carry on going East and then go south as soon as there is a gap or start exploring downwards now?

Heres the saved game:

And here is the screenshot:

This is turning out to be a great island for building huge cities, look at all the shielded grassland and rivers!!! I like it a lot.
Can't wait to get home and check the save out, by which city is the legion supported?

I havn't seen a start on a random world as good as this for a looooong time. We can eaisly get 5 or so mega cities in the explored area so far. Sorry for sounding like some retarded American cheerleader, but it has to be said: Way to go team :goodjob: :D

I'd have thought that the new legion will be supported by Regia Civitas, which means that it will cut down on the number of shields that we can build with. It's a shame that the legion is so far away because if we could easily swap it for the archer then I think that would be a good idea. Still, if the legion turns out to be NON then that's both excellent news and very intriguing. I'm convinced that there must be another civ hereabouts somewhere but we haven't met any other units so we'll just have to press on until we do.
The river and wine special looks great for another city with huge science potential. I maintain that the Gems City is the best site, but if we can get cities up there and on the two whales to the south then we're going to get tonnes of trade! Even without the overseas and other civ bonuses, trade between these cities is going to be quite something! :D

Here is my (very) rough plan of possible future settlement. I don't have access to the chart regarding where all the specials will be etc. so I just placed them in good looking sites trying to make use of the space.

Great graphic mordheim, and if you want to knwo how the special (and hut) pattern fits onto your plan then all the information you could possibly need is in this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27898) by starlifter. :goodjob:

The legion is indeed supported by Regia Civitas, reducing the usable shield output from 3 to 2 ...

Mordhiem - wouldn't the filler city go better 1 tile NE? Then it has a grassland shield, another forest, and two more ocean for the mere 'cost' of one plains.

Originally posted by MonkE
Mordhiem - wouldn't the filler city go better 1 tile NE? Then it has a grassland shield, another forest, and two more ocean for the mere 'cost' of one plains.

Yeah, I noticed that as soon as I posted the attachement and look at it :crazyeye:.

Wow :eek: we have been very lucky. Lots of shielded Grassland and no Barbs or enemy civs. But lets not be lulled into a false sense of security. This map was created by person and therefore are luck could run out any time.

Those city sites look good Mordheim and we have plenty of units for exploration. Go team :goodjob:

"It's a shame that the legion is so far away because if we could easily swap it for the archer then I think that would be a good idea."

The Legion is on a river so it would be possible for it to be brought back to RC without taking so much time as it initially looks like but it would still take around 10 turns.

Mordheim: I think your settlement plan (with noted correction)
is great. I presume the order is: Gem City, SE City, then
the sites upriver from G.C?

As far as popping the hut: If it yields a unit, we have to move
it down so it can be supported by the Gem City when it is
founded. But IMO we're due (statistically) for something besides
a military unit, so I'd say go for popping it. A nomad would be
nice, since it wouldn't a drain on RC for too long.

If we were to get a nomad, where would it go?

Originally posted by Dell19
If we were to get a nomad, where would it go?

Haven't looked at TF, so I see 3 cases:

1. Nomad can reach Gem City site before TF settler can.
Have Nomad found Gem City. The river will help out a lot here.
And have the TF settler go SE.

2. TF can build and get settler to Gem City site first.
Have nomad settle the one of the three nearby
locations shown on Mordheim's map (poll).

3. Nomad must found ASAP, to save drain on RC. Then
use the site ESE of the hut near the Chariot.

FWIW

My, we are excited, and thoughts are zooming off in every direction. Nice city plan, Mordhiem, I like where the cities bridge on/off the river. Now one Legion is supported by each city, so this problem will pass quickly. If we get a None Settler, I'd like to keep it to build roads. However,

1. Safety. Shall we order the Horse to become available to kill a Barb that may emerge from the Hut? It is plains to the NW, seems a wall of forest SE of the Horse, slow going.

2. TFalls settler is imminent. I'm not sure about switching the SSC, switching the Capital, and all of that. We can get quicker development by sticking to our original plan, and building City#3 between Regia Civitas and TFalls. Boring, I know, but our fastest growth plan. Besides, wouldn't we rather shoot for our SSC to have both Colossus and HG?

I hope we are polled on 1) Safely popping the hut, reckless, or not at all. 2) TFalls settler to build Gems or between or other, and then, if between, where exactly. There are at least 4 possible sites between our two glorious cities: the center Grassland, the Grassland Shield, the Plains, and the Forest.

I'd be in favor of moving the chariot toward the hut, so it will be able to respond asap if a barb comes out. Then again, if we lost that legion, it wouldn't such a big deal since RC supports it.

We should found the gems city asap. I don't think we'll get a nomad from that hut. The TF settler should go for the gems.

Here's my idea for city layout.

It tries to grab as much possible land while minimizing over lap.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/City_Idea1.jpg

I didn't make the capture big enough, but the next one could go 1 square SE of where the newest Legion is (which not shown in this screen shot, it is 1 North of the Wine).

This would give us a city on the Soutern end of the river to use as a way to get on the river and a city on the Northern end to use for the same purpose.

The red squares are where specials are that we have not uncovered yet.

I would think the cities should be built as numbered. First Gem City, Second the Southern 4 special, Third the Southern River entrance.

This will allow Gen City to start a Wonder ASAP, City 2 to start producing more settlers (along with TF) to fill in the two cities in the middle, and City 3 to be the Main defensive/thrust point for the rest of the continent. :)

No offence mordheim, but I like Duke's plan better! I think that we should concentrate on the real cities first and then decide where to put fillers when we are up and running properly. I think that colonisation of the entire continent is of a higher priority than filling in any little gaps we might have. My general rule is to expand then backfill.
Dell, how's the science situation progressing? I have to ask as joint Science Minister until the election results on Tuesday morning (though most should be decided before the polls close at that time - they usually are :)) to be seen to be doing something. ;)
We need to take advantage of as much of the river as possible, and not necessarily in just one city, though whichever ends up with the wine too will be great for trade. Both cities there will put a lot forward for trade, especially after bridge building, but the bulk of the science should come from Gems City (temporary name remember ;)) and all extra to top up will be excellent. :goodjob:

We are researching a new tech every 8 turns at the moment and we should discover CB in the next set of turns.

Now back to “what to do next”. ;)

I suggest that we move the legion onto the hill, and move the chariot back up the river. We can then use the chariot to pop the hut. If there is a barb, then the legion will prevent it appearing on the hill (defensive bonus), and if it appears on the river next to the hill, then the legion can attack (better to attack with that than with the chariot). The chariot can cover the other locations – or run away if required.

Note that if we get a unit out of this hut, then there is no guarantee that it will be supported from RC- there may be another civ about, especially since this square is a few more squares away from the last hut. :)

Er ainwood, that would make the chariot a sitting duck. He'd pop the hut with his last 1/3 of a move (if it even allowed it) and since we're at an early stage and unlikely to get more than a single barb horsey then it would attack and finish off the chariot. Even on a river, I reckon the chariot would be toast. With the legion on the hill then it might not be able to attack the horseman but that would depend upon where it appears. I say that we can move the legion to the hill but also end the chariot's move when it is next to the hut and use it to open it on the next turn. That will let the chariot have an attack, and the legion too if necessary. If only Civ 2 gave you a view bonus from the hill like Civ 3 does.....

That's what I meant (and why I drew the pretty lines ;) ) The numbers are supposed to be the turn numbers - we park the chariot next to the hut, and pop it with the first move of the second turn. :)

If we do this, are we then going to make the legion explore to the south afterwards and the chariot to the North east because of the terrain?

That seems to be a fair enough plan, using the river to take the legion as far as possible along, but remember that it will depend on what emerges from the hut how we proceed. If we encounter other civs' troops then we may have to reappraise yet again!

Nice pictures. I like the Duke's City Plan better too. And Ainwood's plan to safely pop the hut when both units are ready. Ainwood, maybe contact Dell19 and join our other game...

The southern Legion and Archer will both move South one move, of course, but then that Legion can proceed north, perhaps become a river guard.

I am saddened by one feature of the City Plan. Both cities planned between RC and TFalls are on forest, seem good long term placement, but I wish we could build them sooner. On the forests, there will be delay in Settler production, and helper unit production. So, I timidly suggest another city, built sooner, forever strangled with Settler production, on the Pure Green Grassland directly between our cities. It provides a free road, and the roads will provide relief if Barbs attack our present core. We want all other cities to grow a bit.

So, Gems will be next city, I can't talk you guys out of that, but the Central Pure Green is a good choice for #4. Free Road that we need, free production, Settler spawning, and thousands of years of benefit from otherwise unused squares.

Dukes plan it is IMHO. But Gary is right about the forest thing - so maybe we should accept a lil more overlap.

I never build cities on forrest, I first irrigate the square and then I'll settle.

Hmm, I too dislike building on forests. But I do like putting the third city on the river mouth, which I considered, but my idea was build a city in that region that could get the whale, then the next settlers go upstream and get the trade rich river tiles quickly. The 'filler' city was always planned to be built lastly.

But hey, it's still a good plan. :D

Building on the forests is the future. Understand, I love the Duke's City Plan, the Gems City, the SE Whales, the River Mouth. Regarding a forest city: it is possible to build first, crank out a Dip or Caravan, and have a later settler irrigate the site into Plains. But at the moment, we have no spare Settlers.

So, how do we get that far into the future? That's why I suggest building on the Pure Green Central square, soon. It will never need a harbor anyway.

Originally posted by civ1-addict
I never build cities on forrest, I first irrigate the square and then I'll settle.

Yes, sorry, that was just a 'given' for me so I didn't cover it in the text. We would irrigate the forest to plains first. That is also the reason they would be built after city #2. City #2 we can build right away and then it can help build more settlers to fill in the other two cities.

OK then, I couldn't imagine somebody building a city on forrest.
If you are in another government it might be possible though as irrigated planes or a special produce more food than in despotism and thus the population can grow. At this point in the game it's not advisable to build at such difficult sites.

I once built my capital on a mountain just because it was in the centre of a 4-special with two gold, some silk and wheat. The wheat didn't last long enough to make this blunder worthwhile and I quit the game after a few turns. :(
If it had access to some fish or whales or any decent food specials then I would have no hesitation in sticking a city on forest. As has been said, you can always improve the tile later in the game.

Ainwood, you plan for popping the hut makes a lot of sense, but I wonder if it is overkill? Are we likely to get any more than one horse out of a hut at this point in the game? (somebody with more knowledge of likely hut results can answer that hopefully)? If not, then I say pop the hut with the legion now and let the chariot explore. Your plan essentially stops exploration for two turns while the chariot gets in position then pops the hut. If the legion pops a horse, he stands a 50/50 chance of surviving. If we lose the legion, isn't this the one supported by RC? Would not be such a loss considering it would free up another shield for building that wonder. Unless there is a resonable chance to get more than one horse out of the hut, I say take the chance and pop it now with the legion.

Some random thoughts concerning this issue: The filler cities will not be built for awhile, so by the time they are perhaps we can spare the settler time to irrigate the sites first. At this early stage of the game I would not be very likely to spend the time irrigating to get a better city site. If they are only filler cities and not expected to grow very big, perhaps building on forest would not be so bad, either. In any case, I agree the big cities should be founded first, and these filler cities started later when the good sites are covered. That would mean we have several centuries before we have to decide this issue :D

Fair point, Leo.

Its may even be a blessing-in-disguise to lose the legion, and I suggest that if we get another unit out that isn't a NON, then we may want to disband the legion anyway.

The Legion support problem will go away in about 3 turns, once Regia Civitas becomes size 2. If we have a large Island, we'll need the Legion.

I say, pop using Ainwood's safe plan, or don't pop now. Another reason to move the Horse: it appears better terrain for the Horse to the NW, and slow Forest terrain to the SE.

Sorry about this but....

Stop calling the chariot a horse! I keep thinking that we've already popped the hut and got a new unit.

Yeah, sorry about that.


I agree with Leo. The legion has a defence of 2 and on the river will be able to defeat the single horseman that is our only chance of a barbarian at this stage in the game. How's the science situation with regard to popping this hut? I realise that if we get a duff tech then we have already got a good number of beakers towards CB but do we want to prolong Monarchy by the chance of getting a tech? Bear in mind that if we leave the hut until we have researched Monarchy then there will be 8 barbs from the hut. :eek:
I say pop with the legion and send the chariot northwards. :)

duke: very valid point about science. Good thing there's someone here who thinks of stuff like that!

Except that the hut is on open terrain - the legion won't have the defensive bonus.

Still, I've reconsidered and tend to agree that we pop the hut as-is - losing the legion is not a biggy.

One thing - if we lose the legion, won't the barb then bee-line for the nearest city? This in itself may be useful, as it might tell us where the AI is - or if the AI is no-where to be seen. :goodjob:

Or am I completely wrong about the barb behaviour :confused:

You're right about the open terrain. Doh!
Still, I say we pop it and hope for the best. :)
I think you are right about the barb behaviour - but this applies even when the nearest city is overseas so it might be useful to know where the enemy are. I am starting to think that the legion is heading up a dead end and that the chariot will reveal far more land to the west as it appears to curve all the way round towards RC again. Of the two sea squares next to the hut (which would mean only 6 barbs and not 8 as I said earlier), one is obviously a lake but the other seems to stretch out further. I say we need to get the other legion up to his mates quickly because there will be lots more exploration to be done. :goodjob:

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