In new thread for the discussion what leaderheads should be added to RFC in a MODCOMP. The main reasom I'd like to add new leaderheads is that I realy dislike seeing ancient leaders in modern times.

I'd like to go systematic with this because else the discussion in other threads in the past have always ended up in YES/NO discussions.

I will start with an easy one (I hope) so we can have a good start :

Haile Selassie of Ethiopia
regent of Ethiopia from 1916 to 1930 - Emperor of Ethiopia form 1930 to 1974
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haile_Selassie_I_of_Ethiopia

download:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=9308

Possible date of appearing : 1880AD, 1900AD, 1910AD, 1918AD, 1930AD (dates form consts.py)

Let's start the discussion.

Are in:

Ethiopia : Haile Selassie
Turkey: Atatürk
Japan: Meiji, Hirohito
Greece: George I
Egypte: Cleopatra
Dutch: Wilhemina
Arabs: Abu Bakr, Ibn Saoud
Spain: Franco, El Cid
France: Joan of Ark, if I find a button for the LH
Vikings: Gustav Adolph

I support including him in a modcomp to RFC.

So, no one against adding Haile Selassie (as I expected).

Moving on:

Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, 1ste president of the Turkish Republic (1923-1938), founder of the modern Turkey, a warhero from WWI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustafa_Kemal_Atat%C3%BCrk

Download:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11208

Any opposition?

Mustafa Kemal is the best candidate for modern Turkey that I can think of, so why not?

Indeed.


I also support the addition of Khomeini (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8346) and Saddam Hussein (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=3679) as being representative of modern Iran and Iraq. Saddam is more debatable, but it's a good looking leader head and I can't think of any other Iraqi leader.

Khomeini should be a definite, as Iran was still called Persia until 1935, and Khomeini turned the country into the Islamic Theocracy it is today. One of the best representations in Civ 4 of a government system, I'd say.

OK, moving on.

Khomeini and Sadam will be discussed later, as they are contoversial.

Next: Japan:

I was thinking of adding both Meiji and Hirohito

Meiji appears around 1800 (I know, he should be later), and making him more open for trade and science so Japan can modernise.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11046

Around 1900 the switch to Hirohito, a more aggressive and militaristic Japan
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=3646

To continu a bit faster:
Greece : George I
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=7530
Egypte : Cleopatra
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11639
or http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=9979
Dutch : Wilhelmina?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10731
Arabia: Abu Bakr as first leader
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10727
Arabia : Ibn Saoud
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=287855 (LH is in the mod)
Vikings : Harald Hardrada
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=7914
Spain: Franco
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=5927
Spain: El Cid
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11060

El Cid was a conroversial persona, as he sometimes fought with the Arabian side.
Any ancient Japanese leaders?

Don't you think this would be better Hirohito leaderhead, though?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=4097

Hirohito: will do, I used that one in my previous modcomp

Ancient Japanese: I don't see the point.

Any more problems with El Cid? Other ideas for Spain?

I recall someone suggesting making Wang Kon leaderhead the ancient Japanese leader (his personality wouldn't even need much changing, he's pretty much as welcoming as Japan was back then) and replacing "Ming Tai Zu" with another Chinese leader.

Harald Hardrada for the Vikings doesn't really add that much. We already have a "viking" leader in Civ 4; a later Scandinavian leader would be much better if there is a choice there.

Does adding additional leaders slow down the game?

No, it doesn't slow the game down (I think), about a vikingleaders: well, Harald is a real nice LH, that's way I would put him in.

I was thinking of adding Eric of Pomerania (first king of Kalmar Union)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_of_Pomerania
LH : http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=2549 (It's the LH for Jan III Sobieski, a polish leader, but as we don't have Poland in RFC...)

Now that I like. Harald does look good, but I'd rather see how adding leaders changes the loading times. If it doesn't much, then the more the merrier!

I'd like for France to have a Medieval leader. It always seemed really weird to have Louis take control of Gaul after the Roman empire fell.

However, the best I can find is Joan of Ark (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=5282870 ) . She's not really what I would consider for the spot, but she is still infinitely better that Louis running France in 900AD :king:

I like this one more:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=4659
but it ahs no button

Gustav Adolph LH: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11295

Does that look good enough to be added?

Well, he's Swedish, and not for all Scandinavians a leader, that's why I'd like a Kalmar Union King.

This is also why it will be hard to find a modern LH for the Vikings.

Sweden was the strongest of Scandinavian countries, and also I rarely see Vikings control Denmark, so a Danish king wouldn't make as much sense as a Swedish king makes.

OK, I will use him. I'm going to leave Harald out, because of the small time periode.

I'm going to use El Cid too.

On to the more controversial LH then?

Persia: Khomeini?

Why or why not?

Khomeini is famous, but I don't think that he was a great leader. I'd support adding Ismail I, the founder of the Safavid dynasty in Persia. I'm not sure whether his LH has been made, but we could use some other 16th century-ish LH.

Khomeini: Yes. Among the world's most successful revolutionaries. The most prominent person in the Islamist movement of the late 20th century. It could lead to interesting late-game play if you make him militaristic.

Well, I think Khomeini should be in. Iran still is Persia, and Khomeini was very important in history. Under the rule of the ayatollahs, Iran (Persia) became more important and a local power in the Middle East, and not longer a vassal to the West. Also, Persia respwans late in history in the 600AD start, that's way I think a 16th century LH is not that good.

I am still willing to listen to arguments why he shouldn't be added, but I think there will not be many as most people who follow the discussion will agree with me and the others couldn't care less (I think).

On with the discussion then:
Saddam Hussein?

Rhye uses Ba'athist Babylon as dynamic name, and Saddam was a membre of the Ba'ath Party. He saw Iraq as a succesor to the Babylonian civilization, and he rebuild ancient buildings like the Ishtar gate.
I would add him, any reason not to add him?

Add him; the chances of an actual "Babylonian" government ever returning are unlikely; he is interesting and fun.

Persian, you mean.

(offtopic I still believe that Iran should respawn as the respawn of Persia, with new historical targets as a new civ)

I strongly vote to led Khomeini in

I also woudl suggest Putin for the Russian Federation (that is Russia, when you run Universal suffrage and stuff)

Putin (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=306887&highlight=putin)

I think 3 UHV's will be too much for a civ that spawns in the 1900's, maybe one or two and make them extra-hard. But are we going to make Iran playable anyway? Because if not then what does it need UHV's for.

good point !


I also suggest Johann de Witt for Netherlands in Renaissance

Johann de Witt (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11524)

and Phillip II for Spain in Renaissance

Phillip II (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11525)

Both of those "after" leaderheads look pretty good.

Wow, Phillip II and Johann de Witt look great!

If you're still continuing this project, would 3 leaderheads per civilizations be too much to ask?

Barack Obama for fourth America leaderhead...

He'll be in the game for what, 11 years?

I currently have no time to work on this because of finals and a masterthesis. I'll start in july.

He'll be in the game for what, 11 years?
haha yes, but still, he seems essential.