Two minor Cosmetic issues. I'm still on Patch L, so apologies if these have been fixed.

1. The Button for Command IV, uses the button image for Command III.
2. Pax Diabolis uses the monument button image, which looks silly. There's no real need to make a unique image, just use either Hyborem's button or the Infernal Pact tech button.

playing patch n, i just saw an ai scout trying to heal next to an goblin archer. i thought this issue was fixed in this patch? in the save it's next to bradelines well.
save:211833

I didn't see a separate thread for cosmetic issues, so posting this here:

The 'pedia entry for the Jotnar says that their cities grow to size 10 rather than the correct size 8.

Just a general question about CTDs. I seem to be getting them constantly. I'm aware of the MAF error and this isn't it (I usually get that when I reload a save a few times without exiting out of the game and restarting it).

This is just a general crash to the desktop sometimes when founding a city (happened to me after I switched to Hyborem and founded the capital, though that is understandable as I probably should have saved and reloaded to let the game refresh a bit). Or just during the AI's turns at varoius times during the game. It gets to be quite frustrating though and was wondering if there is something people are doing to alleviate them or if it is something on my end.

Hey Xien/Vehem/etc...?

You guys copied my code for the Svartafar shrouded woods a little too closely in buildinginfos without going back to the Svart's civ entry and giving them proper access to the Shrouded Woods (which are now classed as a UB version of the Hunter's Hall) so instead nobody can build it currently. :D


<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_CIV_BUILDING1</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_SHROUDED_WOODS</BuildingType>
</Building>

Needs to be

<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_HUNTERS_HALL</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_SHROUDED_WOODS</BuildingType>
</Building>

Air Elementals do not seem to be spawning Lightning Elementals on successful combats.

Same problem that exists with the Hunter's Hall exists with the Field of the Horselords.

Also, the Amurites were given the Wizard upgrade and new Battlemage UU from Fall Flat, but this is not mentioned in the changelog (and is rather important.)

The Hunter event doesn't let you buy animals.




I was meaning to mention this one as well! Since patch L (at least) the Hunter event is broken. The Buy Animal options are all grayed out and not selectable, the only thing you can do is purchase a Hunter.

...And the Imperial Cenotaph also hasn't been given to the Scions as a Courthouse replacement.

Cosmetic thing:

Description (tooltip) of the "No Inflation" game option is "Makes it impossible to blow balloons up."

???? If its a joke I don't get it....

It's a joke, but the option removes economic inflation from the game.

It's a joke, but the option removes economic inflation from the game.

And balloons haven't been added yet.

Hey Xien/Vehem/etc...?

You guys copied my code for the Svartafar shrouded woods a little too closely in buildinginfos without going back to the Svart's civ entry and giving them proper access to the Shrouded Woods (which are now classed as a UB version of the Hunter's Hall) so instead nobody can build it currently. :D


<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_CIV_BUILDING1</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_SHROUDED_WOODS</BuildingType>
</Building>

Needs to be

<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_HUNTERS_HALL</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_SHROUDED_WOODS</BuildingType>
</Building>


Same problem that exists with the Hunter's Hall exists with the Field of the Horselords...



...And the Imperial Cenotaph also hasn't been given to the Scions as a Courthouse replacement.


Iceciro. I looked through my buildinginfos file and all the problems you are referring to are fine for me. You may not have patched correctly or something to patch N.

EDIT: Well I guess it was my install that wasn't correct all along.

Iceciro. I looked through my buildinginfos file and all the problems you are referring to are fine for me. You may not have patched correctly or something to patch N.

Oh really? ...hmmm... 0_o
Maybe my game is really, really confused.
/repatch

not sure if it is a bug or a feature, but when a desert with the tempfeature floodplains gets turned to plains with spring, it will later convert to plains/floodplains rather than desert/floodplains.

Oh really? ...hmmm... 0_o
Maybe my game is really, really confused.
/repatch

It's not - but I've fixed the issues for the next patch.

not sure if it is a bug or a feature, but when a desert with the tempfeature floodplains gets turned to plains with spring, it will later convert to plains/floodplains rather than desert/floodplains.

That is definitely a bug,

plains with floodplains on them are not meant to be

Need to set up the block on casting spring to consider the wait time to convert to floodplains, OR convert the spring spell to stop the timer so that floodplains doesn't happen. Not sure which would be preferable for the players though. Also, does the plot display a countdown till it converts? If not one can be added so you know WHY it won't let you cast Spring, or eventually doesn't turn into floodplain/plain

I guess it has been mentioned elsewhere, but AI workers seems not to chop trees at all so the AI ends up with lots of lumbermills.

In my mod, I allowed spring to be cast on desert/floodplains, but had it destroy the floodplains in the process... My timer was a bit smaller though, so I never really had that problem. :lol:

While we're on the subject of floodplains...
scorch riverside plains, build a bedouin camp, and then have floodplains appear on the tile a bit later.

Personally, I think the best solution to this, would be to make the floodplains appear instantly after scorching, rather than the ridiculously long wait time there is now.

No warning of "Casting this spell may cause you to declare war on another civilization" is given when casting Banishment.

I just accidentally declared war on the Sheiam because their pyre zombies were nearby.

Suggested fix, make it affect enemy units only

Air Elementals do not seem to be spawning Lightning Elementals on successful combats.

Update - after 30 some kills with Air Elementals, I got a single Lightning Elemental, which expired the same turn. The description of the Air Elemental states that it has a 100% rate on every successful combat, of creating a permanent Lightning Elemental. I suppose this may not be a bug, but rather just an old description, but I did base my push to Air3 partially on a strategy with this mechanic.


No warning of "Casting this spell may cause you to declare war on another civilization" is given when casting Banishment.

I just accidentally declared war on the Sheiam because their pyre zombies were nearby.

Suggested fix, make it affect enemy units only

Didn't get that warning with Maelstrom, either.

-----------


One more thing, though I don't see it listed anywhere as a banned building, I seem to be completely unable to build Siege Workshops as the Svartalfar - it's making conquest a bit of a chore. ;)

One more thing, though I don't see it listed anywhere as a banned building, I seem to be completely unable to build Siege Workshops as the Svartalfar - it's making conquest a bit of a chore. ;)

Elves can't build siege weapons, period.
This is intended functionality.

Both elven races are made for defensive and/or guerilla warfare, for the most part. If you want to capture cities, get fire mana and sorcery.

Hmm... Just had a popup telling me that my Giant Spider had become a Giant Spider... rather convenient, as it regained HN, but still rather odd.

Some greater spider promotion doesn't override the smaller promotion: mucro, swimmer spider, poison spider, web spider, etc...

That should be fixed in patch N, unless you mean that a spider can have both the lesser and greater promotion for the same type, ie, Mucro and Greater Mucro, in which case it's intended.

Elves can't build siege weapons, period.
This is intended functionality.

Both elven races are made for defensive and/or guerilla warfare, for the most part. If you want to capture cities, get fire mana and sorcery.

Or beeline Pact of Nilhorn. The Stooge Hill Giants are the best siege weapons in the game as they can do much more besides bombard. :)

in Spellinterface.py the cf.startWar in Spell Spring is missing a third argument (probably should be the same way like in Spell Scorch)
cf.startWar(caster.getOwner(), pPlot.getOwner(), WarPlanTypes.WARPLAN_TOTAL)

With the Archos, when using a HN Giant Spider, I found a map to a distant treasure chest from a goodie hut... It zoomed to the location but didn't reveal anything. :(

Using FF patch N.


I apologize in advance if this issue has been posted before.

It's not - but I've fixed the issues for the next patch.

Regarding the Imperial Cenotaph, my game I'm using latest FFH2 build (patch z), ran the FF050 installer, then patch N.

No option to build cenotaphs, just courthouses, this is known?


BTW, is it a bug not to be able to select the jotnar for the npcs to play in custom games? Or is this currently a PC only race?

The Jotnar are currently Human only.

The 'Make a Brood Chamber' ability that Archos Giant Spiders can use has no icon (it's pink) and the tooltip for the ability, as well as the ability name itself... confuses me.

Using FF patch N.


Again, I apologize in advance if this issue has been posted before.

Playing jotnar on patch N, they started out without the citizen and the three stooges still didn't get the giantkin promotion.

In the Technology Advisor, in the tech map. Traidtions is appearing where Seafaring should be. And pesenting its self as a prereq (visualy only) to Fishing.

Note: It does NOT say it is a prereq elcewhere... Just being silly in the TA map.

I mean, its mostly cosmetic. But...

Frostlings spawn on mountains sometimes.

I stood on a peak next to a Bannor city with a HN Wild Troll. I killed all the defenders in the city (quite slowly, I might add :lol:), but couldn't conquer it with a HN unit (as normal). Then a barbarian goblin conquered the city and its size shot up to eight (from two) and a staedding was built in it (or the graphic at least).
This happened again though without me killing the defenders this time. It seems that (at least when playing as Jotnar) every city conquered by Barbarians becomes size 8 and gets a Staedding inside them.

In the Technology Advisor, in the tech map. Traidtions is appearing where Seafaring should be. And pesenting its self as a prereq (visualy only) to Fishing.

Note: It does NOT say it is a prereq elcewhere... Just being silly in the TA map.

I mean, its mostly cosmetic. But...

It should be moved from 1,10 to 1,14. It's a blank spot, where I have Dunespeakers in Malakim+.

In the Giant wants your Pigs event, the option to give him the pigs is not available.
only the options to share your larder or fight the giant are selectable.



The jeweled Mask constellation event (esus) has two options which do nothing. "Continue" and "These signs mean nothing"

The former should be removed, I'd say,

Okay, I got an OOS error when an awakened spawned when trying to play multiplayer. From 2 OOS logs, when differenced:


Next Soren Rand Value: 6306
Player 0 Assets: 74

Player 0 Num Units: 9
Player 0 Num Selection Groups: 9

Player 0, Awakened, Unit class count plus training: 1

Player 0, UNITAI_SETTLE, Unit AI Type count: 1



Next Soren Rand Value: 4302
Player 0 Assets: 73

Player 0 Num Units: 8
Player 0 Num Selection Groups: 8

Player 0, Awakened, Unit class count plus training: 0

Player 0, UNITAI_SETTLE, Unit AI Type count: 0


I have another OOS log from vanilla FFH, but the differenced two log files shows nothing other than the next-rand value. Now that I remember, that took place when one of the players lost his capital to an AI, and then tried to take over that AI by quitting and rejoining. We had to save and recreate the game to get past it.

Regarding the Imperial Cenotaph, my game I'm using latest FFH2 build (patch z), ran the FF050 installer, then patch N.

No option to build cenotaphs, just courthouses, this is known?

Should be fixed next patch.

The 'Make a Brood Chamber' ability that Archos Giant Spiders can use has no icon (it's pink) and the tooltip for the ability, as well as the ability name itself... confuses me.

Could have sworn that was already fixed...


Okay, I got an OOS error when an awakened spawned when trying to play multiplayer. From 2 OOS logs, when differenced:

Arg, and I really thought the OOS spawning errors had been cleaned up. Xienwolf will have to take a look at this if he can get past his new oriental vegetable obsession. :crazyeye:

Patch N starting at trun 171 playing 2 player multiplayer I started getting memory allocation errors. Then it went 30 more turns before the next one now we are down to every 5th turn.

No OOS even on world spells so far, not a single OOS error the whole game. We have stopped playing now due to the persistant CTD. One observation is My friend is hosting the game on VISTA 64 I am on VISTA 32. Mine is always the one that crashes. I have a little over 3 gigs of memory he has 8, even though the 32 bit game will only use up to 4 gig addressable.

Two games in a row CTD at turn 170. Playing two player multiplayer I was the client friend was the host. played flawlessly to turn 170. Then started getting memory allocation failures consistantly during my city build screens. It didn't matter what building I was building. This happend every other turn. Then he had the brilliant idea to save to another file name on each crash, that allowed it to go 4 or 5 turns before the memory allocation error. This never happened on the host only on my client machine, in every case he was able to save and we could continue.

As soon as I clicked on a building to build it would crash, on reload I found his machine accepted the build order. In every case I was just using the pop up drop down never entering the city screen. In every case it crashed as soon as I clicked on the building to buy. This seemed to be the only place it would crash.

Side note a couple of odd things, the AC counter pop up would appear and have to be manually removed by clicking on the AC counter itself a couple of times. Also one time in a city build screen on the pop up not in the city screen a pop up of a great person overlaid the drop down and had to be closed first before picking a building to build. I was thinking this or somthing like this may be causing the crashes.

We are both using patch N of course. Hope this helps nail down this annoying crash. Plus is there anything hardwired to happen around turn 170 - 171 ish? Like increase in inflation code or another event?

Hopefully something useful this time...
Python error when sanctifying haunted lands (with hell terrain nearby to allow casting), offending code is in cvSpellInterface, line 3128


if pPlot.getImprovementType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('IMPROVEMENT_GRAVEYARD'):
pPlot.setImprovementType(-1)
CyGame().changeGlobalCounter(-1)
pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(caster.getOwner())
newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_EIN HERJAR'), pPlot.getX(), pPlot.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
for iiX in range(iX-1, iX+2, 1):
for iiY in range(iY-1, iY+2, 1):
pPlot = CyMap().plot(iiX,iiY)
if pPlot.getFeatureType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('FEATURE_HAUNTED_LANDS'):
pPlot2.setFeatureType(-1, -1)

It seems to pass the graveyard check at least when on a desert with incense and a plantation, and the last two lines are obviously a bit off. Seems to be a tab/spaces issue(tabs got converted when pasting here).

Fixing the indentation and changing pPlot2->pPlot should do the job (tested). However sanctify is still only usable when near hell terrain, plain HL doesn't allow it to be casted.

so haven't played fall further since one had to do a manual install of it (way back when?).

downloaded FF 050, patched to N. install seems fine. mod loads fine. but then i get no title screen. i do have a navigable main menu:

212210

if i hit play now, screen remains black with coloured line down left-hand of screen:

212208

i can keep hitting return to get into a game. "custom game" option works ok.

when i start a new game, "initialising screen" comes up with buboes-background, but when game starts, most of screen is black, with ugly bad-graphics-smudges when i try to scroll:

212209

sound works fine.

i have NO issues with BTS, FFH2 vanilla (patch z), nor other modmods eg. orbis. problem only happens with fall further :(

basic system specs:
win xp sp2
1.6ghz, 1gb RAM
graphics card: ati mobility pro radeon 9600

any ideas? i've found no similar problems in the forums so feel like this could just be me...

(i've reinstalled FFH and then FF with all patches. i've also checked and rechecked install paths for FF and patch are correct.)

Hopefully something useful this time...
However sanctify is still only usable when near hell terrain, plain HL doesn't allow it to be casted.

Thanks. Replacing reqSanctify with what's below should allow Sanctify's use properly in your present game.



def reqSanctify(caster):
pPlot = caster.plot()
bValid = False
if pPlot.getImprovementType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('IMPROVEMENT_CITY_RUINS'):
return True
if pPlot.getImprovementType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('IMPROVEMENT_GRAVEYARD'):
return True
iHauntedLands = gc.getInfoTypeForString('FEATURE_HAUNTED_LANDS')
iX = pPlot.getX()
iY = pPlot.getY()
if not gc.getGame().isOption(GameOptionTypes.GAMEOPTION_N O_PLOT_COUNTER):
for iiX in range(iX-1, iX+2, 1):
for iiY in range(iY-1, iY+2, 1):
pPlot = CyMap().plot(iiX,iiY)
if pPlot.getFeatureType() == iHauntedLands:
return True
if gc.getGame().isOption(GameOptionTypes.GAMEOPTION_N O_PLOT_COUNTER):
iBrokenLands = gc.getInfoTypeForString('TERRAIN_BROKEN_LANDS')
iBurningSands = gc.getInfoTypeForString('TERRAIN_BURNING_SANDS')
iFieldsOfPerdition = gc.getInfoTypeForString('TERRAIN_FIELDS_OF_PERDITI ON')
iShallows = gc.getInfoTypeForString('TERRAIN_SHALLOWS')
for iiX in range(iX-1, iX+2, 1):
for iiY in range(iY-1, iY+2, 1):
pPlot = CyMap().plot(iiX,iiY)
if not pPlot.isNone():
iTerrain = pPlot.getTerrainType()
iFeature = pPlot.getFeatureType()
if (iTerrain == iBrokenLands or iTerrain == iBurningSands or iTerrain == iFieldsOfPerdition or iTerrain == iShallows or iFeature == iHauntedLands):
bValid = True
else:
for iiX in range(iX-1, iX+2, 1):
for iiY in range(iY-1, iY+2, 1):
pPlot = CyMap().plot(iiX,iiY)
if not pPlot.isNone():
if pPlot.getPlotCounter() > 0:
bValid = True
if bValid == False:
return False
pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(caster.getOwner())
if not pPlayer.isHuman():
if caster.getOwner() != pPlot.getOwner():
return False
if pPlayer.getCivilizationType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_INFERNAL'):
return False
return True

Thanks. Replacing reqSanctify with what's below should allow Sanctify's use properly in your present game.


I'm actually pulling out the Haunted-Lands removing part of Sanctify for the time being - it's currently too easy to rob the Scions of a feature that takes considerable effort on their part using Sanctify. It's not considered a hostile action either, so you can go around cleansing Scion lands, costing them a lot of time.

I'm actually pulling out the Haunted-Lands removing part of Sanctify for the time being - it's currently too easy to rob the Scions of a feature that takes considerable effort on their part using Sanctify. It's not considered a hostile action either, so you can go around cleansing Scion lands, costing them a lot of time.

Oh. Well, good. I was surprised to see it in there. :)

Oh. Well, good. I was surprised to see it in there. :)

Seemed like a good idea briefly - but I think I was half-asleep whilst I was merging things from FFlat/Malakim+ (as certain other omissions will attest). Reasonably it makes sense that a spell should be able to reverse the "mending of nature" from the Scions somewhat unnatural state, but the effort required to use it should be equal to that needed by the Scions to do it in the first place and it should definitely be a hostile action if used in Scion territory.

In the end I figured there's not actually a great need for it anyway.

Is anyone else having these memory allocation errors playing patch N?

This happened again though without me killing the defenders this time. It seems that (at least when playing as Jotnar) every city conquered by Barbarians becomes size 8 and gets a Staedding inside them.

I see the same thing when I play as the Jotnar... In MP it caused us OOS errors every time I took a city. N patch

Need to set up the block on casting spring to consider the wait time to convert to floodplains, OR convert the spring spell to stop the timer so that floodplains doesn't happen. Not sure which would be preferable for the players though.


The latter case I'd say - from a player's perspective, flood plains belong on desert rivers. If you remove the desert part, you're not going to get a flood plain. From the AI's point of view they need to be a little smarter to realize that the desert will eventually be a flood plain if it doesn't terraform right now.

Still not sure how to do it and deal with the Bedouin sits at the same time though - possibly through onImprovementBuilt.

===

The main thing I'm missing at the moment is the ability to tell what the Real/Temp feature types are for a plot. As I understand it getFeature will return the current/Temp one, but I can't tell what the underlying real one is (in this case flood plains are the only ones that are used but we could feasibly have other uses for this mechanic later, so we should check it first).

Looking at it we have getTempTerrainTimer, but I can't see an equivalent one for getTempFeatureTimer, getRealFeatureType etc. Basically means that any fix will simply stop all feature changes by clearing the temp and current ones rather than preserving that information where appropriate.

Personally, I think the best solution to this, would be to make the floodplains appear instantly after scorching, rather than the ridiculously long wait time there is now.

Then you'd say goodbye to every river-plains tile immediately upon getting Scorch - even for non-Malakim. Scorching them all is still going to be pretty much the best strategy long term, but this way you get a period of "downside" at least.

I'm actually considering making the chance of gaining a flood plain ever on artificially created desert river something like 75%. Means that normally it's a good plan, but there's always a chance that it'll go wrong (can always spring and scorch again for another shot once you're sure it failed, 30 turns later).

Floodplains are good things to have - making them easily, in the middle of non-desert is a double-win (they're better in non-desert areas than they would be normally). There needs to be a downside to it.

Floodplains are good things to have - making them easily, in the middle of non-desert is a double-win (they're better in non-desert areas than they would be normally). There needs to be a downside to it.

I prefer "You can't do it at all." as the downside. :)

...but the effort required to use it should be equal to that needed by the Scions to do it in the first place and it should definitely be a hostile action if used in Scion territory.

In the end I figured there's not actually a great need for it anyway.

I agree. Though a couple possible compromise would be Sanctify removing HL only within the caster's civ's borders. There'd still be an imbalance between the difficulty/cost in creation and destruction. But if there are Redactors or hostile Ghostwalkers around getting a Life-caster into position may not be easy.

HL's being handled differently could mean a separate spell would be better.

Also: Dispel magic might be appropriate, too.

I prefer "You can't do it at all." as the downside. :)
That thought occurred to me more than once too :) It does seem to relegate Scorch from "always" to "never" priority though...


Also: Dispel magic might be appropriate, too.

I like that. Dispel Magic working as a Sanctify-style spell vs Haunted Lands, in the caster's own territory...

I'm getting a CTD using patch N as the Scions right now. It is happening just after turn 232. I went into the WB and couldn't find anything in particular that the AI is building to cause it, so I'm not quite sure what is going on. On the one hand, I don't mind terribly because I want to wait until the next patch comes out so I can get the temple of the gift and imperial cenotaph again, on the other hand, the game was going well, so I didn't really want to lose it either. Any idea what is happening? The save game file is attached. Thanks.

Curently playing a game and everybody is creating Alcinus, included save game.


Oups... I am using patch FF patch L and FFH patch Z. I just noticed patch N is out for FF.

By the way, thanks for that nice game. Since I stoped WOW its my prefered game.

Disregard this bug report, it was just Scion civ who got Alcinus killed and resurected a few times.

Just popping in briefly to say that I am happy so many people are calmly posting CtDs even with very minimal feedback and response, especially in terms of potential fixes. Still swamped for another 3 weeks or so, then my brother is getting married, so potentially swamped for another month still. But all of the posts WILL be helpful (especially if you say which patch you were using, as some may release by then) once I get back to having time to debug and mod.

i am getting a ctd when i increase the cultur slider with jontar patch N212299

Had what looked to be a bug in the Loki combat withdraw function -- I saw some discussion earlier about withdrawing defenders not withdrawing to available squares in enemy territory so sorry if this is a known issue already, but I can never really seem to keep straight what Loki’s supposed to be doing in the first place, and this seemed to be buggy.

Patch N, normal speed, large world, hot seat game with 2 human and 14 ai civs. My friend was playing as Cassiel, and just learning how to play any kind of civ game, so I walked him through marching his army with two shiny new adventurers turned axeman heroes down to capture the Lanun capital. Of course I see Loki coming up on it from the other side right after I’d finish telling him “don’t bother adapting to the creative trait right now, aggressive is probably better..” so I recommend building a monument, or just declaring war on Keelyn right then if he wants to hold on to the city. He goes with the monument, and an axeman right outside the city and a few turns after the revolt ended but before the monument was done, Loki flipped it. He declared war and attacked back next turn, which I was under the impression would either a) kill Loki (more likely) or b) he’d flee (less likely), but instead the axeman just took the city with Loki in it, and got a culture value in the city of around 24.5 million on that turn, which gave him a legendary culture radius after the revolt-- until he actually finished the monument, and it reset to 0 culture + 2 per turn.

Hi, new here, loving the work you´re all doing on the game.
Only one thing bugging me though.

The AI-player keeps getting stuck outside gobling forts containing archers, standing there forever, and ever, presumably waiting for their health to max, while at the same time being shot every turn, thus hampering the AI´s progress, feeding the archers endless oceans of xp and meaning you need an actual army to take out a lousy stick fort guarded by a race famed through all fantasy realms for being completely rubbish!

I play only land maps with mostly small 2-3 tile bodies of water on them.

The AI keeps spawning groups of 5 barb Galleys in these 2-tile lakes. All the Galleys can do is go back and forth, back and forth, etc. in the two tiles. I've tried deleting them in the WB, but they are back again in a few turns.

Is there any way to make sure water units don't spawn in such places?

Thank you.

Had what looked to be a bug in the Loki combat withdraw function -- I saw some discussion earlier about withdrawing defenders not withdrawing to available squares in enemy territory so sorry if this is a known issue already, but I can never really seem to keep straight what Loki’s supposed to be doing in the first place, and this seemed to be buggy.

Patch N, normal speed, large world, hot seat game with 2 human and 14 ai civs. My friend was playing as Cassiel, and just learning how to play any kind of civ game, so I walked him through marching his army with two shiny new adventurers turned axeman heroes down to capture the Lanun capital. Of course I see Loki coming up on it from the other side right after I’d finish telling him “don’t bother adapting to the creative trait right now, aggressive is probably better..” so I recommend building a monument, or just declaring war on Keelyn right then if he wants to hold on to the city. He goes with the monument, and an axeman right outside the city and a few turns after the revolt ended but before the monument was done, Loki flipped it. He declared war and attacked back next turn, which I was under the impression would either a) kill Loki (more likely) or b) he’d flee (less likely), but instead the axeman just took the city with Loki in it, and got a culture value in the city of around 24.5 million on that turn, which gave him a legendary culture radius after the revolt-- until he actually finished the monument, and it reset to 0 culture + 2 per turn.

The culture thing is a bug that we've been looking for a way to reproduce reliably :goodjob:

Loki not withdrawing however isn't - he currently just doesn't count as a combat target for any purpose - using the "bNeverHostile" tag that Xienwolf added. I'm not entirely sure how you're supposed to deal with him myself though...

I would suggest that loki never count towards the 'kill all enemies' requirement for killing off a civilization then. Otherwise you would have to kill of the Balseraph way early in the game to ensure that you could complete a 'conquest' victory requirement without vassalizing them.

That's already been fixed, actually... Someone pointed it out to Xienwolf.

Hi, new here, loving the work you´re all doing on the game.
Only one thing bugging me though.

The AI-player keeps getting stuck outside gobling forts containing archers, standing there forever, and ever, presumably waiting for their health to max, while at the same time being shot every turn, thus hampering the AI´s progress, feeding the archers endless oceans of xp and meaning you need an actual army to take out a lousy stick fort guarded by a race famed through all fantasy realms for being completely rubbish!

Fixed that, but caused a CtD when doing recon missions. Haven't had the time to fix that CtD yet, but once I do no AI will ever attempt to heal while in range of attack.

I play only land maps with mostly small 2-3 tile bodies of water on them.

The AI keeps spawning groups of 5 barb Galleys in these 2-tile lakes. All the Galleys can do is go back and forth, back and forth, etc. in the two tiles. I've tried deleting them in the WB, but they are back again in a few turns.

Is there any way to make sure water units don't spawn in such places?

Thank you.

Could be blocked, just have to decide precisely what size of a water area is defined as unacceptable to spawn in.

Playing patch N, Jotnar:

smaller issues:
-jotnar units seem to lack culturegarrison, can't prevent cityflipping with them

-jotnar arcane units can't build force mana nodes

Big ones:
-Memory allocation failure when building the dowsing project(ctd doesn't trigger when I switch production-save below).

-I received another memory failure when I toggled the ressourcedisplay in globeview(didn't try to repeat this one though)

Could be blocked, just have to decide precisely what size of a water area is defined as unacceptable to spawn in.

The game already distinguishes between lakes and seas, doesn't it?

Could you perhaps allow ships to only spawn in seas ?

Pink promotions:
RESMGR: Texture Art/Interface/Buttons/Equipment/TravellersCloak.dds failed to load
RESMGR: Texture Art/Interface/Buttons/Promotions/BigPinkBox.dds failed to load

Actually, BigPinkBox.dds is supposed to be a big pink box. :lol:

Actually, BigPinkBox.dds is supposed to be a big pink box. :lol:
heh, I assumed it would be a texture none the less, nevermind then:p

The Khadi killed Orthus... and left his axe. I walked into their territory a few turns later and picked it up with my starting scout. Ive seen other stuff like this, the AI seems not to know what to do about equipment. And odd things happen with equipment nationality, like it sometimes changes without leaving the ground.

I think they are still working on the equipment issues.

Using the latest patch I killed Orthus with a HN Hill Giant and likewise killed his Axe which disappeared, for example.

I killed some doviello guy and got the ring of perception. Only it wasn't the ring of perception. Picked it up and it became a potion of healing, a total ripoff. I personally despise one-shot equipment.

I killed some doviello guy and got the ring of perception. Only it wasn't the ring of perception. Picked it up and it became a potion of healing, a total ripoff. I personally despise one-shot equipment.

That sounds perfectly apt to me. You simply percieved it as a ring :)

Or maybe it actually is a ring, but you now percieve it as a potion.

FF patch N
FFH2 patch 40Z
Actually...I started a game as Scion to see whats up and figured out what was happening to Alcinus guy.

First off he got Crazed promotion then Rampaged promotion then became barbarian, I then killed him for being a pest and he resurected under the Austrin civ.

If the bug is that he resurrected for a different civ, it's not a bug. Feature. Alcinus suffers amnesia, there is actually a unit designed to hunt him down and bring him back. :lol:

He's just as likely to go on a rampage and get killed when he's in another civ. He's more likely to come back to the Scions than another civ.

Don't worry about killing him, he probably likes it.

Patch N, played Calabim, and had built Pact of the Nilhorn.

The Stooges were capable of being upgraded into Vampires. Did so just to see what'd happen, plain old HN Vampires, who lost their city bombard abilities.

Don't know if this has been reported before. Playing with patch N.

There are several purchasable promotions which the mouseover says are lost once the unit acquires e.g., bronze/iron/mithril weapons. The problem is that units that already have the metal weapons promotion(s) can still purchase those promotions that they're supposed to lose once they get metal weapons.

Assuming the mouseovers are correct, then I would think that units with the relevant metal weapons promotion should be blocked from purchasing promotions that they're supposed to lose once they get metal weapons.

Either that, or the mouseovers are incorrect and should be fixed.

Actually, neither... What the mouse overs are meant to show is that yes, you can buy fancy copper weapons... but once you have iron, you'll want to buy fancy iron weapons. :p

Played as the Scions in a OCC, a few bug and querys.

First the Thaumaturge's Keep could be built several times (I kept building it until I had one of each mana, not sure if it was worth it though in the end, the 4 unhappiness was rather painful)

End game when the invasion stacks came my friends complained about having to kill Alcinus over 10 times before they could finally capture and destroy the city.

Last one is as soon as I settled my 5th Awakened (as in up to size 6) the percentage chance disappeared and I no longer got any more awakened. (However since I had just got the happiness I had one spare)
Tried it again on test game, settler difficulty. They ceased to appear after population 4.

-What are bugs and what are features?

Playing a game as Infernals from the start.

BIIIIG problem. They don't start at peace with Agares, presumably gaining it when they convert to AV

Turn 49, pyre zombies start appearing around my 3-warrior capital. I had to use the worldbuilder to correct it, by giving myself a settler, making a city, putting pax diabolis in it, then sacrificing it.

Hyborem should start off at peace with Agares. It makes no sense for the random demons to destroy your empire before you can even start spreading hell.

Edit: Turn 52, now there are demonic champions appearing. I'm glad I corrected it now.

But also, shouldn't the demon spawns be restricted a bit based on technology? I KNOW nobody in the world has discovered Iron Working at turn 52. Bronze working is feasible though not likely, but iron working is a "hell no!".Is this a bug?

First the Thaumaturge's Keep could be built several times (I kept building it until I had one of each mana, not sure if it was worth it though in the end, the 4 unhappiness was rather painful)

Bug with the spell's OOC req. I just looked at the python and see where the mistake is.

EDIT:
If you don't want to wait for a patch here - and not was posted very, very briefly a little while ago - is the fix:


CvSpellInterface.py in Assets/python/entrypoints is the file.

Look for the comment ("Req for Thaumaturge's Keep".).
Replace what follows with the code below.


# Req for Thaumaturge's Keep
def reqAA(caster):
pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(caster.getOwner())
pCity = caster.plot().getPlotCity()
if (gc.getGame().isOption(GameOptionTypes.GAMEOPTION_ ONE_CITY_CHALLENGE) and pPlayer.isFeatAccomplished(FeatTypes.FEAT_BUILT_KE EP) == false):
return True
if pCity.getNumRealBuilding(gc.getInfoTypeForString(' BUILDING_PALACE_SCIONS')) > 0:
return False
if pPlayer.isFeatAccomplished(FeatTypes.FEAT_BUILT_KE EP) == true:
return False
return True




End game when the invasion stacks came my friends complained about having to kill Alcinus over 10 times before they could finally capture and destroy the city.

Feature... sort of. It's really a matter of luck. Generally I don't think it's a problem but the fewer civs in the game, the more likely Alcinus will return to the Scions and need to be killed yet again.


Last one is as soon as I settled my 5th Awakened (as in up to size 6)

The Awakened are supposed to stop coming once your population hits a certain # - it depends on map size. Or, really, how many land tiles there are. 6 and 4 sounds veyr, very low. What sort of/size map were you using. And I suppose this might be related to OCC, though I'm not sure how. I'll take another look at the python...

EDIT:
It's not OCC. After a few test I'd guess the max population function isn't bugged - it's just giving too few Awakened for small maps.

Looking back at it, 4 was a duel map and 6 was a tiny map . Just tried another test game, duel map. Once up to 3 population I didn't settle any awakened and watched how it progressed, eventually I adopted aristocracy and the spawn rate skyrocked (may be the difficulty, however since it was a test)
-edit: map type was pangea

This means that as long as you are willing to have one less than "maximum", you can continue to gain awaken, and I think this might be beneficial until you get code of laws anyway as that would be your next source of reborn.

Playing a game as Infernals from the start.

BIIIIG problem. They don't start at peace with Agares, presumably gaining it when they convert to AV

Turn 49, pyre zombies start appearing around my 3-warrior capital. I had to use the worldbuilder to correct it, by giving myself a settler, making a city, putting pax diabolis in it, then sacrificing it.

Hyborem should start off at peace with Agares. It makes no sense for the random demons to destroy your empire before you can even start spreading hell.

Edit: Turn 52, now there are demonic champions appearing. I'm glad I corrected it now.

But also, shouldn't the demon spawns be restricted a bit based on technology? I KNOW nobody in the world has discovered Iron Working at turn 52. Bronze working is feasible though not likely, but iron working is a "hell no!".Is this a bug?

You aren't MEANT to play as Infernals from turn 1. I just tweaked things a bit so they aren't so completely broken if used immediately. As for the demons, they only ever gain research if some player in the game knows the tech already, and their units are limited by techs they know. So someone out there has Iron Working or whatever it is that is required for the units they are spawning, and has had it for a while (exact time based on difficulty settings)

You aren't MEANT to play as Infernals from turn 1. I just tweaked things a bit so they aren't so completely broken if used immediately. As for the demons, they only ever gain research if some player in the game knows the tech already, and their units are limited by techs they know. So someone out there has Iron Working or whatever it is that is required for the units they are spawning, and has had it for a while (exact time based on difficulty settings)

But they ARE broken if the terrain that surrounds their city spawns things that kill them.

I really don't see how it's possible to survive against champions spawning around your capital wheny ou have only warriors.


I can assure you of one thing, though. Nobody in that game possessed the Iron Working tech. However, both Infernals and Mercurians start off with the Iron resource from their palace.

If it is based on the tech though, then I'm certain that there's a bug at work here. Having Iron working on turn 53 is impossible, period. unless it was added by worldbuilder (and I didn't do that)

For reference, the difficulty is emperor.

It's not COMPLETELY impossible... Some AI could have gotten incredibly lucky with huts/Great Engineer pops from dungeons.... :p

Really though, the Infernals and Mercurians aren't meant to be played from game start. The fact that they are, is due to a side-effect from a request feature, not by design, and so they aren't balanced for it.

Hopefully this will be the last post about the scions for awhile :P
In OCC they are unable to build Awakened and Reborn thus really limiting how they may obtain it, hope all this has helped :)

Patch N, played Calabim, and had built Pact of the Nilhorn.

The Stooges were capable of being upgraded into Vampires. Did so just to see what'd happen, plain old HN Vampires, who lost their city bombard abilities.

I guess this wackiness is not a bug and is intended.

I reported previously that the HN Stooges were able to upgrade to Paladins in a patch L game, so it looks like it hasn't changed.

I'm not sure why the Stooge Hill Giants are able to upgrade to anything not in the Giantkin line.:confused:

It's not COMPLETELY impossible... Some AI could have gotten incredibly lucky with huts/Great Engineer pops from dungeons.... :p


Perhaps. But I can assure you, in this case, it IS completely impossible.

I'm more than 50 turns on from that point now. I just checked every single civ through worldbuilder. Nobody has Iron Working yet. Not even Agares has it

Possibly relevant, the Champion in question is on a Hellfire tile, which apparently spawned out of nowhere. Perhaps those tiles are set to spawn specific units regardless of agares' current tech ?

In OCC they are unable to build Awakened and Reborn thus really limiting how they may obtain it, hope all this has helped :)

Yep, very helpful. Here's a fix for the build problem:


File: PythonCallbackDefines.xml in Assets/XML.

Change "CAN_TRAIN" to 1.

File: CvGameUtils.py in Assets/python

Change the "cantrain" section to this:


def canTrain(self,argsList):
pCity = argsList[0]
eUnit = argsList[1]
bContinue = argsList[2]
bTestVisible = argsList[3]
bIgnoreCost = argsList[4]
bIgnoreUpgrades = argsList[5]
ePlayer = pCity.getOwner()
pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(ePlayer)
eUnitClass = gc.getUnitInfo(eUnit).getUnitClassType()

if gc.getGame().isOption(GameOptionTypes.GAMEOPTION_O NE_CITY_CHALLENGE):
if pPlayer.getCivilizationType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_SCIONS'):
if eUnitClass == gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCLASS_AWAKENED'):
if pCity.getNumRealBuilding(gc.getInfoTypeForString(' BUILDING_PALACE_SCIONS')) > 0:
return True
if eUnitClass == gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCLASS_REBORN'):
if pCity.getNumRealBuilding(gc.getInfoTypeForString(' BUILDING_CATHEDRAL_OF_REBIRTH')) > 0:
return True

return False


For the very low ceiling on Awakened spawning you encountered you can try this:

Search for

iTPopLmt = (iTotalLand / 40)
and make it


iTPopLmt = (iTotalLand / 40) + 6
That'll add 6 to the # of population limit. Still pretty low, but it'll more than double the # spawned for many very low-land area maps without being too great a change for larger ones.

Roughly turn 210, I just finished researching Infernal Pact, and was given Hyborem instantly.

Is it intended that he starts with 26 free xp? That enabled me to pick Drill I-IV on the same turn he spawned. Seems a bit strange. Being str13, he's not exactly going to have problems killing things to gain xp.

Another oddity.
The AC just hit 80. Hellfire popped up all over the world, even in non-hell terrain, which doesn't seem right.

But more importantly, every hellfire tile spawned a Champion which was under My control, not Agares'. Is this intended?

The main thing I wanted to report though, is that it spawns, well... champions. Human guys in chaimail with shields. Not the Infernal champions that look like undead samurai.

Seems like it would be most logical for it to spawn Sect of Flies' iof they are intended to be under infernal control. Having human champions seems odd.

Is it intentional that infernals are affected by the Global fire damage at AC 50?

As far as I understood, their main "thing" is that armageddon doesn't affect them. It seems a little odd that that, and only that, out of all the armageddon events, negatively affects infernals.

Perhaps. But I can assure you, in this case, it IS completely impossible.

I'm more than 50 turns on from that point now. I just checked every single civ through worldbuilder. Nobody has Iron Working yet. Not even Agares has it

Possibly relevant, the Champion in question is on a Hellfire tile, which apparently spawned out of nowhere. Perhaps those tiles are set to spawn specific units regardless of agares' current tech ?

Yes, Hellfire spawns Champions, and can only naturally appear in Hell Terrain. There is no limitation in place to prevent them from popping out on turn 1 if there is Hell Terrain in the world which is unowned or at peace with the demons, and doesn't already have an improvement (which is not possible normally, as the only Hell Terrain in the world would be Bradeline's Well, which has an improvement by definition. In your case all Hell is in non-Demon Friendly land until AC 25 when it will spread beyond your borders, allowing Hellfire to appear (which it does FREQUENTLY if able).

Another oddity.
The AC just hit 80. Hellfire popped up all over the world, even in non-hell terrain, which doesn't seem right.

But more importantly, every hellfire tile spawned a Champion which was under My control, not Agares'. Is this intended?

The main thing I wanted to report though, is that it spawns, well... champions. Human guys in chaimail with shields. Not the Infernal champions that look like undead samurai.

Seems like it would be most logical for it to spawn Sect of Flies' iof they are intended to be under infernal control. Having human champions seems odd.


Hellfire event allows Hellfire to spawn anywhere in the world. I should have set up Hellfire to work like Bradeline's well and be a source of Hell so that the tile it appears on naturally becomes Hell Terrain (thought I did do so actually). Hellfire event also grants initial spawned Champions to Hyborem if he is alive, but all future (naturally spawning) units will go to Agares. And yes, it ought to be changed to spawn Sect of Flies since those weren't removed from FF.

I should have set up Hellfire to work like Bradeline's well and be a source of Hell so that the tile it appears on naturally becomes Hell Terrain (thought I did do so actually).

Yes, you did. It's not instant, but hell terrain started spreading out from them 1 turn later.

Interesting little twist with republic and scions.

I'm playing as risen emperor, and my republic elections just allowed me to gain the Organised trait.

Instantly I started building the vacant mausoleum inside my capital, free population point across my empire was quite nice.

Edit: Risen emperor popped right after, thought I still had to build him, so that's a nice lil bonus.

Here's a repeatable ctd right after hitting end of turn. It happens about halfway through a "here I am" sound. This is my first time posting a save, so hopefully I figured it out correctly.
Jotnar, Patch N, turn somewhere in the 400s.

While we're on the subject of bugs and the Jotnar, here are some other observations:
>City placement suggestions seem to be based on a normal size city, rather than a small one. Not a big deal for a player, but I imagine it goofs the AI up a bit.
>Gaining a religious technology after someone else has discovered it gives you a disciple. Savants can upgrade to Skalds, and I imagine the other disciples have some odd upgrade possibilities too.
>Is it intentional for Archery to be blocked but the similarly useless Stirrups to still be available?
>Giant Tortoises can upgrade to Tritons. Useful, but it seems rather odd.

General oddity - Faeryl picked up a Great Prophet early on that led her to RoK. She still went ahead and researched FoL and AV, despite not switching to them afterwards.

Interesting little twist with republic and scions.

I'm playing as risen emperor, and my republic elections just allowed me to gain the Organised trait.

Instantly I started building the vacant mausoleum inside my capital, free population point across my empire was quite nice.

Edit: Risen emperor popped right after, thought I still had to build him, so that's a nice lil bonus.

Known issue. I spotted it before it even happened :)
Tarq already wrote up a fix, so it'll probably be sorted in the next patch

Perhaps you could let it stand, but make the 'Risen Emperor' unit only survive as long as the player has the 'Organized' trait. Like those religion dependencies. Once the player loses 'Organized' the emperor has to go back to the capital to make sure the politicians dont muck up his system.

Patch N. Amurites cannot build Wizard's Hall. They just get normal mages guilds.

A quick check shows that it isn't defined for them in the civilizationinfos.


This fixes it

<Buildings>
<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_PALACE</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_PALACE_AMURITES</BuildingType>
</Building>
<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_CIV_BUILDING1</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_CAVE_OF_ANCESTORS</BuildingType>
</Building>
<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_MAGE_GUILD</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_WIZARDS_HALL</BuildingType>
</Building>
</Buildings>

looking at the Jotnar in civilizationinfos, it seems Arctic Circle added a lot of redundant entries for units that they can't build.

Legate
Harmatt
Kahd
Meskwaki
Karrlson
Lucian
Miquiztli
Coatlann
Dragon Guardian (?)
Professor
Wilboman
War Machine
Teutorix
Rathus
Rantine
Maros
Magnadine
Losha
Loki
Hyborem
Guybrush
Govannon
Gilden
Eurabatres
Corlindale
Black Wind
Basium
Barnaxus
alazkan
Acheron
Abashi
Grigori medic
Monk
Lightbringer
Ophanim
Angel of Death
Repentant Angel
Seraph
Valkyrie
Herald
Freak
Adventurer
Flagbearer
Donal
Demagog

Can't believe I typed all that @_@

Anyways, no offence intended to Arctic Circle, but this seems to be a horribly inefficient mess.
Is there any reason why it's done like this? All of the above are civ specific things that Jotnar shouldn't be able to build anyway. There should be no need to explicitly exclude them.

Not sure if this is a bug or not, but I though things like this were fixed.

Playing a new game as Khazad. Emperor difficulty. On Turn 15, the Sheiam are exterminated. Yes, that early.

I reload to the previous turn and have a look. There's a demonic Diseased Corpses (str 6) with combat II and moderately injured. Presumably it killed their single warrior the previous turn. When I press enter, it Annhilates the Hardy I worker which is all that's in their city.

The most likely cause is Bradeline's Well, which is 2 spaces away from their capital, and inside the BFC. However, I spawned a unit next to it so I could check, and it has NOT been explored yet.

It looks like Diseased Corpses just spawned on the single hell tile under the well, and went for their capital. Note that it's just "diseased corpses", not a specially named one, which is usually what happens when they come out of dungeons.

It's really not possible that someone could have discovered Corruption of Spirit by turn 15. No great people have popped up. The Armageddon Counter is still 0

The shrouded woods thing has the "cannot be built by anybody" tag, which I guess includes Svartalfar, since I can't build it.

Also, automated work boats are still broken. Is it just my install? They haven't worked since patch L or so.

The shrouded woods thing has the "cannot be built by anybody" tag, which I guess includes Svartalfar, since I can't build it.


Strange. I just looked at the XML and Shrouded Woods are defined as a UB for svartalfar.
I think they were intended to replace the Hunter's hall though, but still...

I'm using Patrch N, by the way. Are you?
Have you tried playing as Svartalfar and attempting to build Shrouded Woods? It looks like it should work.

Anybody else seeing this?

Playing FF with the latest patch, when I build a Ratha I have problems with the interface. I seem to be getting the interface from the unit I dealt with immediately before dealing with the Ratha. I can't give my Rathas promotions or fortify them; only thing I can do is move them by right-clicking or delete them. This is the only unit I'm having this problem with, everything else is fine.

Be happy to post a save if you need.

P.S. Don't know if this is related, but I noticed that the 'pedia entry for Rathas has no text.

Anybody else seeing this?

Playing FF with the latest patch, when I build a Ratha I have problems with the interface. I seem to be getting the interface from the unit I dealt with immediately before dealing with the Ratha. I can't give my Rathas promotions or fortify them; only thing I can do is move them by right-clicking or delete them. This is the only unit I'm having this problem with, everything else is fine.

Be happy to post a save if you need.

P.S. Don't know if this is related, but I noticed that the 'pedia entry for Rathas has no text.

Decided to upload an auto-save. Just build a Ratha in any city and check out the unit's interface. Thanks.

Not sure if this is a bug or not, but I though things like this were fixed.

Playing a new game as Khazad. Emperor difficulty. On Turn 15, the Sheiam are exterminated. Yes, that early.

I reload to the previous turn and have a look. There's a demonic Diseased Corpses (str 6) with combat II and moderately injured. Presumably it killed their single warrior the previous turn. When I press enter, it Annhilates the Hardy I worker which is all that's in their city.

The most likely cause is Bradeline's Well, which is 2 spaces away from their capital, and inside the BFC. However, I spawned a unit next to it so I could check, and it has NOT been explored yet.

It looks like Diseased Corpses just spawned on the single hell tile under the well, and went for their capital. Note that it's just "diseased corpses", not a specially named one, which is usually what happens when they come out of dungeons.

It's really not possible that someone could have discovered Corruption of Spirit by turn 15. No great people have popped up. The Armageddon Counter is still 0

I think there is still a problem with VERY bad results coming from lairs too early in the game.

I lost a patch L game when 4 Gargoyles appeared out of a lair on Turn 6 not far from my capital.

Then, I just lost a patch N game when a Pit Beast took out my two Thrall Warriors on Turn 15. I could not get a Citizen defender in the early going and building Egress or any other defenders was not possible in that short of a time.

I didn't pop either of these lairs, BTW.

Again, I think this needs to be tied to game speed. I was playing at Epic and if you are going to spawn early tough lair critters, maybe they need to come a bit later in the slower speed games. Four Gargoyles on Turn 6 is a bit much IMO.

Strange. I just looked at the XML and Shrouded Woods are defined as a UB for svartalfar.
I think they were intended to replace the Hunter's hall though, but still...

I'm using Patrch N, by the way. Are you?
Have you tried playing as Svartalfar and attempting to build Shrouded Woods? It looks like it should work.

Yeah, this is on patch N and I definitely can't build it. I had to go into the worldbuilder and manually add it to my cities. I can build hunter halls, though. Would you like a savegame?

I am playing with unrestricted leaders, if that affects anything. It didn't before.

I have a weird issue with the Jotnar, patch N.

My capital's culture had expanded to the point where I could pre-build a mine for a future city. Upon sending the settler there, I decided to move the city one tile away, so that the mine was out of the city's square workable area. The problem is that the city started working the mine when it was built, but I couldn't switch to a new tile at all. I couldn't even change the citizen to a citizen specialist. Out of curiosity, I pillaged the mine, but the city still kept working the mine, despite trying to switch it with the governor.

Attached are 2 screenshots and the closest autosave I have.

Is there any reason why it's done like this? All of the above are civ specific things that Jotnar shouldn't be able to build anyway. There should be no need to explicitly exclude them.

It's the way you had to do it until fairly recently. It was a real pain, and why you'd often see new heroes buildable by the wrong civs after a patch.

I'm not certain who "fixed" it. xienwolf or Vehem, I expect.

btw, for the previous post. Isn't Bradeline's well explorable multiple times?

It can be explored once every 100 turns, until it gets cleansed, at which point it becomes explorable once every never.

My thurmatage's keep spawned with an entropy mana, a military A-something and a Schola Furo. I thought both those were 'extra' buildings and I was supposed to get 2 mana or at least a mana and PA's

Playing as Jotnar/Mother I used a Great Commander (I'm getting plenty of those) to recruit units.

I got only a single Troll Hunter from the GC.

The pop. of the city was 8 and it states you get "one unit for every 3 pop."

Shouldn't I have at least received two units?

Maybe a Troll Hunter and a Hill Giant.

My thurmatage's keep spawned with an entropy mana, a military A-something and a Schola Furo. I thought both those were 'extra' buildings and I was supposed to get 2 mana or at least a mana and PA's

The Schola Furo is like Alcinus' Trove (The PAs). Both take the place of a mana.

btw, for the previous post. Isn't Bradeline's well explorable multiple times?

Yes, but after being explored, it displays a (50 turns to bradeline's well) on the improvement, which is how you can tell it was explored recently.
In my case, there was no such text, and it was only turn 15, conclusively proving that they never explored it.

As far as the HL being Sanctifiable, the reason for that is they have a greater unhealthiness penalty for non-scion Civs in Fall Flat.

Fall Flat will probabaly take the code mentioned here that makes it only work within your borders, so that civs have a way to fight back against HL in their own lands but not wreck the scions with a tier one spell.

The fort/citadel/castle does not give the strength bonus 5/10/15 to units within 1/2/3 tiles. I tested this by creating a fort/citadel/castle in the enemy territory and viewed the odds preview that pops up before an attack. The only modification that the fort/citadel/castle made was the defensive bonus increase of 10/25/40. The strength modification bonus did not show up.

The other thing I noticed about the fort/citadel/castle is that they do not act as a city, so archers do not get any city defense bonus they might have and melee units do not get any city attack bonus the might have. I noticed that the Bedouin Village does act as a city. It might be nice (and more realistic) to have the fort/citadel/castle act as a city as well, since it's main purpose is to defend choke points with defensive units along with acting as sentry points and enemy attack sinks along the culture border.

I got this error when Shelba asked me for open border.

FFH2 40 z
FF N

I got this error when Shelba asked me for open border.

FFH2 40 z
FF N

Looks like an error with the inquisition spell. I don't think it has anything to do with the open borders. Perhaps the timing was just coincidental

You are right, I got this one after while. One of my priest was doing Inqisition.

I was playing Scion.

The fort/citadel/castle does not give the strength bonus 5/10/15 to units within 1/2/3 tiles. I tested this by creating a fort/citadel/castle in the enemy territory and viewed the odds preview that pops up before an attack. The only modification that the fort/citadel/castle made was the defensive bonus increase of 10/25/40. The strength modification bonus did not show up.

The other thing I noticed about the fort/citadel/castle is that they do not act as a city, so archers do not get any city defense bonus they might have and melee units do not get any city attack bonus the might have. I noticed that the Bedouin Village does act as a city. It might be nice (and more realistic) to have the fort/citadel/castle act as a city as well, since it's main purpose is to defend choke points with defensive units along with acting as sentry points and enemy attack sinks along the culture border.

Fort bonuses only apply if you control the fort. So test the attack bonus by placing some enemy units in your territory within range of your forts and see if the attack bonus shows up then.

I am surprised that the Bedouin Villages are set to act as city, it was removed from forts because of the capability to act as a canal. It would be a balance question for which ones should/should not have those tags though.

Ranged attacks still give XP when they do 0 damage. In fact it almost seems like they give MORE xp when you do 0 damage, around 3 per attack.

Are you on the latest patch? That was a mistake Vehem supposedly just corrected.

As the Svartalfar, I am getting 1.25xp per 0 damage ranged attack. I was considering it compensation for them being so militarily weak. >.> And yes, patch N installed - I waited rabidly for it.

cast (take Travellers cloak) action doesnt have an icon

Ok, then more of the ranged combat tweaks I made got reverted than I initially thought. I had things set up so that it was impossible to make a ranged attack which would deal 0% damage at one point. Still 2 weeks from being able to code much though, so unfortunately it'll have to remain how it is now for a while.

When exploring a lair (a barrow I think) I got the result TXT_KEY_GOODY_SKELETONS.

So how do we fix these OOS errors? I want to try and manually fix the awakened spawning code, but I'm not quite sure how. On beginplayerturn that's where the awakened spawning gets called, but it seems it only gets called for each player invidually. This code might need to get moved to onbegingameturn.

Are you on the latest patch? That was a mistake Vehem supposedly just corrected.

Xivian T'Nava told me I'm running some version of Fall Flat over the latest FF version :crazyeye:

Was a DLL based fix, so unless FFlat is distributing a DLL with the patches (might be, since he had included some hotfixes before FF released them as a patch) you should have gotten the fix. If he is releasing a DLL with patches, then it is most likely out of date.


OOS issues are fairly tricky to track down, unless you are lucky and someone used "Active" calls somewhere, those are generally dead giveaways for OOS. About the best you can hope for is a repeatable (or easily reproducible) OOS trigger, then start cutting chunks of code and hoping you make it go away. Then narrow down the size of your cuts till you isolate a single line (or function) and then rewrite it until you solve the issue.

Volcano tiles can be worked.

I'm not sure if this is from FF or basic FfH, but when I get the angelic procession event the text says the Armageddon Counter is reduced by two but it only drops one step.

Was a DLL based fix, so unless FFlat is distributing a DLL with the patches (might be, since he had included some hotfixes before FF released them as a patch) you should have gotten the fix. If he is releasing a DLL with patches, then it is most likely out of date.


OOS issues are fairly tricky to track down, unless you are lucky and someone used "Active" calls somewhere, those are generally dead giveaways for OOS. About the best you can hope for is a repeatable (or easily reproducible) OOS trigger, then start cutting chunks of code and hoping you make it go away. Then narrow down the size of your cuts till you isolate a single line (or function) and then rewrite it until you solve the issue.

In other words, try it myself and see.

I'll go ahead and do that. Change a couple lines of python and see if I get an OOS error.

I'm not sure if this is from FF or basic FfH, but when I get the angelic procession event the text says the Armageddon Counter is reduced by two but it only drops one step.

The AC is displayed as a percentage of the armageddon value. For instance, reducing 102 out of 200 by 2 is enough to lower the AC by one percent.

So, in trying to squash that OOS bug, I found another one. The log isn't terribly helpful, but this is what happened:

The game crashed at the start for computer 2. Normal for multiplayer. Anyway, it rejoined and I got started. 40 turns in, I still didn't have an awakened! So I exited from computer 1, changed my config file so I could see the pyton error, and then rejoined. Then I got an OOS error. I checked the OOS logs and the only thing different is the seed. No other clues as to why rejoining caused the problem.

One more bug: The score display button hides the score list and the manabar both, which is rather weird because the mana bar has it's own hide button.

The OOS error for scion awaked spawning fixed. I took the code from onBeginPlayerTurn to onGameBeginTurn... I modified it just a little to work in the different context, but here it is:


# This code is now in onGameBeginTurn instead of onPlayerBeginTurn

# SCIONS START - doTurnScions has the Awakened spawning code
for nPlayer in range(gc.getMAX_PLAYERS()):
player = gc.getPlayer(nPlayer)
if player.isAlive():
if player.getCivilizationType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_SCIONS'):
cf.doTurnScions(nPlayer)

# SCIONS END

For best results, all civilization's special "docivstuff" should be moved in this way. Simply add all of the "if civ = X" lines here and it'll cut down on quite a few potential OOS issues.

So, in trying to squash that OOS bug, I found another one. The log isn't terribly helpful, but this is what happened:

The game crashed at the start for computer 2. Normal for multiplayer. Anyway, it rejoined and I got started. 40 turns in, I still didn't have an awakened! So I exited from computer 1, changed my config file so I could see the pyton error, and then rejoined. Then I got an OOS error. I checked the OOS logs and the only thing different is the seed. No other clues as to why rejoining caused the problem.

Base issue with FfH since before I started to mod, so have to comb through ALL pre-existing changes to find that one. But rejoin is NEVER an option with FfH based mods till it is found, all player must exit to the lobby or you OOS instantly.

One more bug: The score display button hides the score list and the manabar both, which is rather weird because the mana bar has it's own hide button.

Manabar was made by Kael before anyone really messed with understanding the whole screen system too completely, and before DLL modification was possible, and he just slipped it into another widget. Was initially placed above the score list so it probably made sense then. Anyway, when I overhauled the interface it just never occurred to me to grant it a widget seperate from the scorelist. Wouldn't be hard to do at all.

The Banor can not make their clerics.

I found and fixed the error for svartalfar shrouded woods. It's in CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml under (what else?) the Svartalfar building section:

<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_CIV_BUILDING1</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_SHROUDED_WOODS</BuildingType>
</Building>
should be:
<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_HUNTERS_HALL</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_SHROUDED_WOODS</BuildingType>
</Building>

While I'm at it, the following is missing from the Bannor Units section in the same file:

<Unit>
<UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_CLERIC</UnitClassType>
<UnitType>UNIT_CLERIC</UnitType>
</Unit>

The Banor can not make their clerics.

This is something I never noticed, because I accidentally fixed it myself.
If you want a quick fix, you could try installing my sabathiel module:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=318813

I ported over the whole bannor civinfos entry from Fall Flat, including the clerics. So that will fix them, as well as adding a cool hero :D

I went looking for cannot be built by anybody tags, and found that amurites can't build their wizard halls or battlemages and hippus can't build a field of the horselords. I fixed everything, but I have nowhere to host it, if anyone wants the file.

there is definatly a bug where a gobblin archer in a gobin fort will cause an OOS when they shoot at someone using opportunity fire. In this game it seems to be 100%. Unless it only happens when it is visible and fires and causes an OOS.

you can attach it to a post here.

I noticed and fixed the wizard's hall, too

SO I CAN.

I thought it was too big, maybe I was looking at the wrong file. Anyways here it is, extract it to \Beyond the Sword\Mods\Fall Further 050\Assets\XML\Civilizations\

The file is taken from Patch N and fixes the shrouded woods, clerics, wizard halls, battlemages and fields of the horselords.

While I was at it, I fixed the hunter event to give myself one less reason to open the world builder. The EVENT_HUNTER_1 through 5 sections in Assets\XML\Events\Civ4EventInfos.xml were missing the following line:
<bPickCity>1</bPickCity>

A little on gobblin archer oos, it happened every time an AI player came in range and it attacked the AI player. When the AI player died we would keep on playing until another unit came in range and we started with the oos again until the AI retreated or was killed. Then no more oos until they attacked the gobbie again. Player 1 finally killed the gobbie no more oos. That wasn't the first gobbie to have that happen all gobbie archers caused this. I am thinking we can only verify it happened on the server side, not the client side.

The AC is displayed as a percentage of the armageddon value. For instance, reducing 102 out of 200 by 2 is enough to lower the AC by one percent.
Ah, OK. Not a problem then. :)

So, strangely enough, it would seem that the Kuriotates only build settlements instead of cities... I'm not sure if I've made some mistake, during the patching process or not, or if the most recent patch listed here is higher than "N", but I thought I'd ask/comment.

They build cities occasionally, but on a given map they will only be able to have less than 6 cities. I would think that the AI would have been trained to make settlements, and an occasional city every once in a while.

Well, I neglected to mention it happened in multiplayer games. Then I noticed the scout could cast a spell...I forget the name...That improved it from a settlement to a city.

Problem solved. Huzzah.

Use Healing Potion spell is has a TXT_KEY showing in it's hovertext
Take Healing Potion spell is missing a button image (pink box)

Not really a bug, but definitely an oddity: I happened to pick up a Goblin in the very late game through a Compelling Jewel, and was quite surprised to find that I could upgrade it to an Ogre, and Ogre Warchief, or a Stoneskin Ogre.

Captured animals do not convert to Undead like other units do. (An Elephant did become Undead when I upgraded it, however.)

The "dwarves fighting lizardmen" dungeon result can occur in a shipwreck.

Drown have a tendency to spawn from shipwrecks in the deep ocean, making them unable to move since there's no coast.

Wasn't there a change a while back that made the "your unit never returns..." dungeon results not happen to high level units? It doesn't appear to apply to shipwrecks, as I lost 5 different Arcane Barges at level 3 or higher.

That's odd. I've almost never hit the your unt never returns item. Maybe only Recon units can explore without that chance? And Hero units as well?

"Unfortunately, no one knows what is inside the lair, as your unit was never heard from again....."

Something like that. :P It certainly can happen to Scouts. It's not terribly common, but I've lost a few to it.

The forest under Mount Kalshekk seems to be impossible to cut down. I have 6 Scion workers on it, and the time to cut down the forest is stuck at 2 turns. It's been that way for 8 turns now.

Perhaps because Mt. Kalshekk is treated like volcano's? I dont really know, but perhaps it is "unworkable" terrain.

I think it has always been like that, or at least as long as I've been playing FF. I've been meaning to try using scorch, that fire spell, or genesis, but I keep forgetting.

casting Mend Nature on Mt Kalshekk doesn't work either.
It casts, and holds your ghostwalker for 4 turns. but when he's done, nothing has changed.

I thought it was Jungle? I chopped it 4 times before I gave up. Just figured it was meant to be that way, the unhealth being a drawback of the feature.

Not really a bug per se, more of an AI quirk, but is there some way we can get the AI to stop auto-exploring right up next to goblin forts with archers in them, whereupon said goblins keep firing at them, gaining experience for themselves, the scouts get locked into staying put until healed, and the cycle continues indefinitely? Makes the goblin forts rather annoying with their level 15 units and it makes the AIs stop exploring with their scout tied up permanently.

While I was at it, I fixed the hunter event to give myself one less reason to open the world builder. The EVENT_HUNTER_1 through 5 sections in Assets\XML\Events\Civ4EventInfos.xml were missing the following line:
<bPickCity>1</bPickCity>



Thanks for the fixes :)

As for the above one, there's already a line in Civ4EventInfos.xml that says
<bPickCity>0</bPickCity>

Should I just change the 0 to 1? Or add the line <bPickCity>1</bPickCity> at the end of every event_hunter_1 through 5 section?

First the fiddly bugs, then the game stopper:

1) Govanan can't teach Creation I. He was standing in a square full of fully taught units. He got the Creation I promotion but the option to use his teach skill wasn't available. I moved him to a square with a freshly built Firebow, used his teach skill and Creation I was not conveyed. I suspect this might apply to some of the other FF mana types (Force, Dimensional, etc.) but I haven't tested it.

2) Smoking forests aren't cleared when chopped. Early on I started a lot of forest fires to clear out some jungle and many, many, MANY turns later, some tiles are still smoking. When I chopped a smoking forested hill the workers would complete the chop, my city would get the chop production bonus and the forest would remain, ready to be chopped again.

This one is less of a stated bug and more of a question:
3) Does the Cave of Ancestors really grant level 2 sphere promotions sometimes? I ask because I have created a LOT of adepts in a recent Amurite game and never saw a bonus tier-2 promotion, both as adepts AND after upgrading them to wizards.

By the way, I'm loving Fall Further. Keep up the good work freely and cleverly innovating the game I love (and love to write about).



And now for the big bug, copy-pasted from the FFH bug thread:

Hi everyone. I have been suffering from this bug for about 1.5 months. As I play a game, the game gets slower and slower until eventually it halts altogether. Specifically, it seems to be linked to rendering the terrain: the game runs fine when most of the world is unexplored but the amount of time I can go before it gets la-g---g----y and unstable decreases after I trade world maps or cycle through too many city views. Panning back to world view is right out!

Per the first post of this thread, I activated the Python Exceptions and nothing has shown up. Instead, the game crashes and I'm looking at my desktop in 16 colors at 800x600 resolution and I have the following error message:

"Runtime Error: Failed to allocate video memory. Please try reducing your graphics settings. File:\main\Civilizations4\SDKs\Gamebryo2_0\CoreLib s\NiDX9Renderer\NiDX9VBManager.cpp, Line:1019"

I realize that this could just be my computer sucking and might not reflect in any way on FFH or Civ4 at all. FFH and Fall Further succumb to this just the same. I am making this post mainly in case someone else has dealt with this before and has some sage advice.

For what it's worth, I have been playing FFH for a looong time and it wasn't until fairly recently that I started having this problem. No hardware has changed, nor have I changed any of the game's graphic settings. I have an XP system with 2.2ghz proc, 2gigs of RAM and an NVIDIA GeForce 6200 (so 256mbs of on board RAM).

Thanks in advance, folks; I owe ya one...

The Scions Imperial cenotaph is not buildable. "Cannot be built by any civilization".
I suspect it's not defined as a UB

@Shatner:

The first post of the FF bug thread has a link to possible solutions for MAF errors for both XP and Vista. Check it out, it might solve your problem.

Thanks for the fixes :)

As for the above one, there's already a line in Civ4EventInfos.xml that says
<bPickCity>0</bPickCity>

Should I just change the 0 to 1? Or add the line <bPickCity>1</bPickCity> at the end of every event_hunter_1 through 5 section?

I don't see that line anywhere, so either you're looking in the wrong place or you're on a different version, and I therefore don't know.

And I saw the thing with the cenotaph the first time around, but since I know just about nothing about playing scions, I figured it might be intentional. Its entry is missing from CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml. Here's an updated file for you six people out there.

I guess I should have been more clear, here's what the eventsinfo sections should look like:

<EventInfo>
<Type>EVENT_HUNTER_1</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_EVENT_HUNTER_1</Description>
<bPickCity>1</bPickCity>
<iGold>-10</iGold>
<UnitClass>UNITCLASS_WOLF</UnitClass>
<iNumFreeUnits>1</iNumFreeUnits>
<Button>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Process/Blank.dds,Art/Interface/Buttons/Beyond_the_Sword_Atlas.dds,8,5</Button>
<iAIValue>1000</iAIValue>
</EventInfo>

I've been trying out the mercurians for the last three days and i an't get any angels to spawn,first i thought it had something to do with starting the game as the mercurians but in my latest game i started out as the kuriotates and after building the mercurian gate ,still no angels.i have tried a fresh install and still it doesn't work213388

It has a lot to do with the other civs that are in your game and what their alignment is.

Basically, you get Angels for units that are killed belonging to civs that are Good.

There's always been some question on what happens when a unit from a Neutral civ or a barb unit is killed. Does Hyborem get a Mane (if he is in the game), does it become an Angel or nothing happens?

I tried to view your save, but couldn't get it to work. If you have civs that are Good in the game and they have units being killed, you should be getting Angels.

You could always build cannon fodder yourself, send them out to be killed and you will get some Angels spawned in return.

I do remember playing the Mercurians once and this whole mechanism was not working very well, so you might be on to something. I just haven't played them in a long time.

My friend and I have tried to play multiplayer but the game keeps crashing. In the zip are the logs of two crashes, the second one occurred some time after the first crash (we reloaded the savegame). Im pretty sure it is nothing we two did, as we couldn't really reproduce it.

This is all with the latest patch (n) and those crashed have also occurred previously in another game.

Basically, you get Angels for units that are killed belonging to civs that are Good.

There's always been some question on what happens when a unit from a Neutral civ or a barb unit is killed. Does Hyborem get a Mane (if he is in the game), does it become an Angel or nothing happens?


This is incorrect.

I believe it's dependant on religion. If a unit with Order, Empyrean, of Runes of Kilmorph as it's religion dies, it becomes an angel.

likewise with the infernals, Overlords and AV units become demons. Also, when cities are razed, the infernals get manes too.

Overall, it seems that the infernals are more powerful.

It has a lot to do with the other civs that are in your game and what their alignment is.

Basically, you get Angels for units that are killed belonging to civs that are Good.

There's always been some question on what happens when a unit from a Neutral civ or a barb unit is killed. Does Hyborem get a Mane (if he is in the game), does it become an Angel or nothing happens?

I tried to view your save, but couldn't get it to work. If you have civs that are Good in the game and they have units being killed, you should be getting Angels.

You could always build cannon fodder yourself, send them out to be killed and you will get some Angels spawned in return.

I do remember playing the Mercurians once and this whole mechanism was not working very well, so you might be on to something. I just haven't played them in a long time.

Well, if you could get the save to work,you should see that most of the world is under the order religion and some with runes of kilmorph,the civ i started with(kuriotates) had a lot of there units die defeating mahala and none returned as an angel.
Last night i had a quick try with FFH2 and ther it worked perfectly so it must be something related to FFh050

I don't see that line anywhere, so either you're looking in the wrong place or you're on a different version, and I therefore don't know.

And I saw the thing with the cenotaph the first time around, but since I know just about nothing about playing scions, I figured it might be intentional. Its entry is missing from CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml. Here's an updated file for you six people out there.


Aye, I just discovered that I'd erroneously fiddled with the FfH files, not the FF ones. :crazyeye:

Anyway, not a problem, I just reinstalled the latest FfH fix. Thanks again.

I've been trying out the mercurians for the last three days and i an't get any angels to spawn,first i thought it had something to do with starting the game as the mercurians but in my latest game i started out as the kuriotates and after building the mercurian gate ,still no angels.i have tried a fresh install and still it doesn't work213388

I may be wrong but last time I played Mercurians my Night watch died and it gave 1 units to the Infernals, then I lost an Axeman and it gave me an Angel. I was Fellowship of the Leaves in Lord of the Balors scenario.

Religion can send you to Infernal or Mercurian, and some promotions can send you to Infernal. And just having been a living unit and belonging to the Mercurian can send you right back. A Mercurian Adept who knows Death I will quite likely be reborn as both an Angel and a Manes for example.

I may be wrong but last time I played Mercurians my Night watch died and it gave 1 units to the Infernals, then I lost an Axeman and it gave me an Angel. I was Fellowship of the Leaves in Lord of the Balors scenario.

The scenarios are played with base FFH. Ff isn't compatible with them, which is really a shame

Also caught an OOS. In one player log there was a Bedouin Camp, in the other one there was not. Maybe there are some issues with Malakim only improvements or Malakim workers when they don't belong to Malakim anymore?

Religion can send you to Infernal or Mercurian, and some promotions can send you to Infernal. And just having been a living unit and belonging to the Mercurian can send you right back. A Mercurian Adept who knows Death I will quite likely be reborn as both an Angel and a Manes for example.

I'm sorry if I gave incomplete or misleading information.

Let's get back to barbs that are killed. Do they go to the Mercurians or the Infernals?

Both?

It seems like there are no set rules for who gets the units sent to the hereafter.

Sorry, I guess this shouldn't be in the bugs thread, but I think Maja has identified a problem. I noticed the same thing in the FFH version when all the changes to Armageddon were made - one of them was when AC 100 hit, the Mercurians used to get a ton of Angels, but did not in my game.

Maja, have you made it to AC 100 yet in your game?

We continued our previous oos'ed game for about 10 turns then we had a ctd on both ends. My friend recalls seeing something with '60 turns something is forbidden (I think it was construction)' which I believe is one of the world spells. Right after that the ctd occurred and I never received that message.

I'm sorry if I gave incomplete or misleading information.

Let's get back to barbs that are killed. Do they go to the Mercurians or the Infernals?

Both?

It seems like there are no set rules for who gets the units sent to the hereafter.

Sorry, I guess this shouldn't be in the bugs thread, but I think Maja has identified a problem. I noticed the same thing in the FFH version when all the changes to Armageddon were made - one of them was when AC 100 hit, the Mercurians used to get a ton of Angels, but did not in my game.

Maja, have you made it to AC 100 yet in your game?

No, i haven't made it to ac 100 yet and it will be highly unlikely i ever do because almost the whole world is Good. But i am not the only one with this problem so i think this does belong in the bug thread.
this is from Fothal in the ff novicew/basium and hyborem questions:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm still in the game I mentioned above playing as the Mercurians.

I'm now at turn #594 at Epic game speed and have not had a single angel spawn. I have created the Mercurian Gate, and have Basium, which I understand from the above posts is the requirement to allow Angels to spawn. The only reason I'm still in the game is I have a continent to myself (easily defensible), lots of very powerful heroes, two 12 strength War Elephants, and my one token angel I started with who will soon be upgraded to a Valkyrie.

I know the Infernals are getting units because I see the message when I raze a city (at war with an Ashen Veil civ I'm eradicating). I've even had units of my own die which follow the Order religion, but never gotten an Angel out of it. There is also a war raging on another continent between a civ with the Order religion and another following Fellowship of the Leaves. The Order civ is loosing fast, and I should be getting at least *some* Angels from that war, if I understand the process correctly.

I'm guessing something is broken? Or am I missing something to unlock Angel spawning?

Aye, I just discovered that I'd erroneously fiddled with the FfH files, not the FF ones. :crazyeye:

Anyway, not a problem, I just reinstalled the latest FfH fix. Thanks again.

Actually I guess it doesn't matter either way, what I posted doesn't fix anything.

I'm playing as the Scions on classic start, I just walked Themoch into the elven capitol and found 3 Gilden Sivelrics, plus 2 more running around. Every single one of their starting archers is Gilden.

Now that I think about it I am playing Fall Flat. I have seen this before though, once I accidently did a mideval start and spawned with 2 Barons.

I sure hope Keleeyn doesn't have 5 Lokis.

I'm playing as the Scions on classic start, I just walked Themoch into the elven capitol and found 3 Gilden Sivelrics, plus 2 more running around. Every single one of their starting archers is Gilden.

Now that I think about it I am playing Fall Flat. I have seen this before though, once I accidently did a mideval start and spawned with 2 Barons.

I sure hope Keleeyn doesn't have 5 Lokis.

Most amusing thing I've read all day. I can just picture it.

Reminds me that Gilden is woefully in need of a new model. It's on my to do list if someone else doesn't do it first.

Let's get back to barbs that are killed. Do they go to the Mercurians or the Infernals?

Who owns something doesn't EVER matter except in the case of a Living Unit controlled by Basium who dies will ALWAYS be allowed to be reborn as an Angel. Otherwise, who owns the unit means nothing at all.

Barbarians will NEVER have a religious affiliation, so will never be reborn as an Angel. Few Barbarians will ever have Death I or Entropy I either, only those who manage to do so will ever be reborn as Manes.

For cities, the only thing that matters is the alignment of the original owner. If they were evil (but not Infernal), Manes can spawn up to the current population of the city. If they were Neutral, Manes can spawn up to 1/2 of the current population, and Angels up to 1/4 of the population. If they were Good, angels can spawn up to 1/2 of the current population.

Barbarians will NEVER have a religious affiliation, so will never be reborn as an Angel. Few Barbarians will ever have Death I or Entropy I either, only those who manage to do so will ever be reborn as Manes.

Are you certain about this? I've head of Barbarian leaders being able to spread religions to Bhall's cities.

Even so, the vast majority of barbarians are spawned, not built. It's a pretty safe generalization, even if not 100% true.

I did forget about Orcs having cities. They would have a chance for some religions on those units, but without a state religion it is only 40% of all units which are built by the Barbs, which won't be many (unless they control a large chunk of the map, then it'll be quite a few since they can't build any buildings)

I definitely just got hit with Blight a SECOND time in my game. My cities indicate Blight in them and there was the Death damage again.

Gaaaack!

This time I got hit with the Blight. I recovered and was able to drive the AC down to 25 where it stayed for a long time (perhaps 100 or more turns).

However, it crept up and when it hit 30 again...another Blight,

Very, very frustrating. :(

Several issues regarding the Infernals, the AC, and other hell-related things.
1 - Razing cities as the Infernals causes AV to spread to the city first, thus making the AC go down when the city is destroyed.
2 - Bane Divine does not require AC 70 like the civilopedia claims, and kills Mardero when built.
3 - This:
I definitely just got hit with Blight a SECOND time in my game. My cities indicate Blight in them and there was the Death damage again.

Gaaaack!

This time I got hit with the Blight. I recovered and was able to drive the AC down to 25 where it stayed for a long time (perhaps 100 or more turns).

However, it crept up and when it hit 30 again...another Blight,

Very, very frustrating. :(
has happened to me as well.
4 - Infernals can work Peaks
5 - Barbarian Lizardmen can enter Flames without any of the necessary promotions.
6 - Barbarian lands appear to count as at least neutral for the purposes of hell spread. Seems odd.
7 - Playing as Hyborem from the start in One-City-Challenge (I tested it without OCC and this didn't happen) converting to AV causes Hellfire to appear on every unimproved tile in my territory.
8 - Can there please be a way to make Bhall and Agares at war? Having a surprise barbarian jump out at me from an otherwise friendly stack of demons is really irritating.
9 - In about half of my recent games, Faeryl or Tebryn has founded Runes of Kilmorph. I payed no attention the first time, assuming a disciple or Great Prophet had something to do with it. The fact that all three times it has been RoK has me getting suspicious, though.
10 - The Sheaim appear to be set to research Sorcery before Corruption of Spirit, causing them to frequently get beaten to it by Jonas, Faeryl, or Keelyn.
11 - Forests that are smoking or on fire are not destroyed when the underlying terrain becomes hell.

Glad to see I am not the only one getting hit with TWO Blights.

I think the barb Lizardmen are still considered Orc for some reason (they are clearly Lizards) and able to walk through fire. I believe you can get the combat bonus good against orcs with them.

Two problems I noted with my 'ally' the Mercurians:

1. They were building Soldiers of Kilmorph. To build the Mercurian Gate you need to research Fanaticism which obsoletes that unit. How could they build Soldiers of Kilmorph?

2. He adopted Liberty long before our team researched Mercantilism.

I played a game starting as the Mercurians from the beginning of the game.

I'm now at turn #594 at Epic game speed and have not had a single angel spawn. I have created the Mercurian Gate, and have Basium, which I understand from the other posts is supposed to be the requirement to allow Angels to spawn. The only reason I'm still in the game is I have a continent to myself (easily defensible), lots of very powerful heroes, two 12 strength War Elephants, and my one token angel I started with who will soon be upgraded to a Valkyrie.

I know the Infernals are getting units because I see the message when I raze a city (at war with an Ashen Veil civ I'm eradicating). I've even had units of my own die which follow the Order religion, but never gotten an Angel out of it. There was also a war raging on another continent between a civ with the Order religion and another following Fellowship of the Leaves. The Order civ loost ground fast, and I should have gotten at least *some* Angels from that war, if I understand the process correctly.

I'm guessing something is broken? Or am I missing something to unlock Angel spawning?

Savegame attached....

Two problems I noted with my 'ally' the Mercurians:

1. They were building Soldiers of Kilmorph. To build the Mercurian Gate you need to research Fanaticism which obsoletes that unit. How could they build Soldiers of Kilmorph?

2. He adopted Liberty long before our team researched Mercantilism.

1 - Parmanders require Copper (only Copper, other metals won't work) so if Basium doesn't have Copper he can't upgrade.
2 - Did several other people convert at the same time? There's an Overcouncil resolution that automatically shifts all members to Liberty whether they know the tech or not.

1 - Parmanders require Copper (only Copper, other metals won't work) so if Basium doesn't have Copper he can't upgrade.
2 - Did several other people convert at the same time? There's an Overcouncil resolution that automatically shifts all members to Liberty whether they know the tech or not.

Basium has Copper - I gave it to him with many other resources.

No on #2 as well. Shortly after Basium enters the game, you will see him reel off the civics he is adopting. Liberty was included with all the others. It did not say anything about him joining the Overcouncil and then maybe getting Liberty from a previous vote. Possible, I guess, but the remaining civs in the game were not your Overcouncil types. ;)

The AI could be made far more competitive if the worker_sea script were fixed. It's still building work boats, but unless it needs to explore, it auto-scraps them since they can't find the fish resources.

I got a CTD after pressing enter to go to the next active unit. The unit was a Great Sage that had just levelled up. Free xp from apprenticeship.

The great sage Magister Cultuum has the "wrong" picture. His image is now a japanese mage type guy throwing lightning, rather than the govannon picture it was before.

I know it's a bit odd to have him identical to Govannon, but I really liked the synergy before of aving MC's avatar as the picture. I'd prefer it changed back.


Also, the great engineer Zoot Ghent Gear is a WoW troll, apparently. Despite those not existing in erebus. He sounds like an intelligent and well read person, so the image of a troll seems a bit unfitting.

Some event seems like its putting a bit much onto the army counter. 8-10 a pop with last days... This is pretty rediculous when you get the plague turn 68...
I mean its last days... but REALLY? (Speed quick/small size... but even so!)

Edit: Figgured out what it is. Its the glowing tree, happenining and basicaly forcing +10 army coutner(+5 as listed, x2 last days)

Eek gads. Moving conversation on that to balance thread. Sorry to bother.

Zoot is Gonzo the Great (muppet), I am amazed ANY quote from him sounds intelligent to you :p And I didn't know MC's Great Person ever used Govannon's image, either way though, I'd prefer not to have cosmetic stuff in the bug thread. I am finally close to the point I can code again, and I have to wade through about 1200 posts seeing what I missed as it is.

I'd prefer not to have cosmetic stuff in the bug thread. I am finally close to the point I can code again, and I have to wade through about 1200 posts seeing what I missed as it is.

I understand this.
I've created a seperate Cosmetic issues thread for such things.

However, I do have something else to report. Although it is a cosmetic thing, it'd need code (probably DLL) to fix.

Unique artstyles are not displayed in the city screen, or on the "what do you want to build next" popup.

Ie, infernal warriors, for example, are skeletons. But the button image and model shown in the city screen is of a generic human warrior. Even though they have a different button and model when actually made.

Kael fixed that one, thought I had imported it when he did, but must have missed something (or it was reverted later on accident). And thanks for the other thread.

I'll mention this one again only because it isn't in your list:

Foxford

I moved a Scion Velite into Foxford and got the popup, but couldn't make any choices.

However, later in the game I moved a captured Elephant into Foxford unintentionally and I was able to make the first choice: it got the Adventurer promotion and the XP. :D

First a clarification: When I said volcano tiles could be worked earlier, I meant you could get resources from them, not that you could build improvements (though as the Jotnar you can build roads there).

Second, something I'm not sure if it's a bug or not: Larry, Curly and Moe don't have the giant promotion that let the Jotnar-built hill giants climb peaks etc.

I think that's actually a balance decision, as there's code to specifically prevent it in the python.

I think that's actually a balance decision, as there's code to specifically prevent it in the python.





Patch M will break save games
(Rev 496)
.....
19. 3 Stooges get Giantkin promotion.

I have to disagree. Looks like a bug to me.

Hmm... Might have misread the code then. I'll take another look.

Kahd cannot get horsemen, as they cannot build a stables. This is rather odd, as they get the Riders UU at Stirrups + Archery, and the Riders don't require stables. Intended or not?
Also, the Kurios are unplayable in hotseat mode. Every time you try build a city, it ends up as a settlement.

The Kurios ARE playable, you just have to manually promote the settlement. Any unit in the city will be able to do so.

I have to disagree. Looks like a bug to me.

Must have been reverted. From a fresh install:

if newUnit1.getRace() != -1:
newUnit1.setHasPromotion(newUnit1.getRace(), False)
newUnit1.setHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString(' PROMOTION_JOT_GIANTKIN'), False)
newUnit1.setName("Larry")

It clears any race, and removes Giantkin.

The Kurios ARE playable, you just have to manually promote the settlement. Any unit in the city will be able to do so.
Oh, really didn't think that through on my end. :mischief: My apologies!

I have to disagree. Looks like a bug to me.

Hmm... Might have misread the code then. I'll take another look.

Both right actually - they have a line to grant them the GiantKin promotion - but I copied a "setHasPromotion-FALSE" line instead of a "setHasPromotion-TRUE" line, so it basically forces them to NOT have it instead. Fixed now.

Kahd cannot get horsemen, as they cannot build a stables. This is rather odd, as they get the Riders UU at Stirrups + Archery, and the Riders don't require stables. Intended or not?
Also, the Kurios are unplayable in hotseat mode. Every time you try build a city, it ends up as a settlement.

Intended, but might be subject to change regarding balance. Kahd only has a single mounted unit available, which doesn't require stables. All of his lines other than Arcane are pretty stunted, because he gains a lot of his army through the gates. He did get access to Champions a short while ago, but I borrowed some changes from Fall Flat that improved his gate-army again, so he may not need the Champion after all. I need to take a good look at what units exactly he *does* need though.

I am playing the Kahdi and I can't get pagan temples to work. This would fit in ok with the intolerant trait, except nowhere can I find this stated that intolarent brakes pagan temples, and if so why can Kahdi buld them. I think I checked all the change logs.

Is this a bug, feature or am I missing something.

I was just playing a game on Large Perfect World map script. On turn 329 the game "freezes", where after I end my turn the game goes into an eternal AI turn which never ends, so turn 330 is never reached. Not sure what is causing it.

Maybe this is an ongoing thing, but I couldn't find anything about it here or in the Scions' thread...

My Ghostwalkers more often than not seem to get hung up after I move them. They have no movement pts. left, yet remain active as if they did. Hitting the space bar doesn't snap them out of it. The only way to get this to stop is to either click on another unit, or finish your turn.

Only the Ghostwalkers seem to have this problem. And, if you have a lot of Ghostwalkers it is a nuisance.

I know this isn't the thread for it, but I just am unable to go any further in my game as Korinna. There are too many damn creeps, etc. in the game.

If all the fortifying and micromanagement doesn't get to you after a while, the constant sound from those blasted things will. ;)

My Ghostwalkers more often than not seem to get hung up after I move them. They have no movement pts. left, yet remain active as if they did. Hitting the space bar doesn't snap them out of it. The only way to get this to stop is to either click on another unit, or finish your turn.

I've seen this in FF too as well, but I think it's a larger problem. It seems to happen sometimes when units are granted promotions while they have no moves left. I see it happen a lot to scouts who get the adventurer promotion from lairs.

Yep, I get it as well, and all of them has been in connection with promotions.

Oooh, also, not sure if this is intended in the Noble difficulty, but the AI seems to have really messed up tech priorities, they seem to beeline Mysticism while ignoring basic cultivation skills, I cannot see how this could -not- gimp their progress.
Also, they, at least the more aggresive Civs still tend to put everything they have and own into producing oceans of lowly warriors, again, might be a feature, as it can be a hassle to fight, but you´d think the war attrition from the dead warriors and the taxcosts from having 1 zillion peons with sticks fighting your wars would offset any gains gotten from this!

Oooh, also, not sure if this is intended in the Noble difficulty, but the AI seems to have really messed up tech priorities, they seem to beeline Mysticism while ignoring basic cultivation skills, I cannot see how this could -not- gimp their progress.
Also, they, at least the more aggresive Civs still tend to put everything they have and own into producing oceans of lowly warriors, again, might be a feature, as it can be a hassle to fight, but you´d think the war attrition from the dead warriors and the taxcosts from having 1 zillion peons with sticks fighting your wars would offset any gains gotten from this!

The Mysticism thing is actually a good thing - they're going for God King and Elder Council - both of which are actually very useful at the opening. "Basic Cultivation" is a little less important as you don't need techs to build the improvements now (just to build them at full speed).

That being said - in the released version the AI isn't great at using the techs it gets (constructing the buildings needed for higher units), nor is it much use at progressing further than Tier 2. The version I've been watching today however is, with my favourite battle being the Elven Flurries harrassing the Bannor Champions, then being chased away by the newly researched Paladins... Was around Turn 300 on Standard.

The other thing that the AI struggles with at the moment is building improvements - though apparently not due to the change that allows slow build without tech. They just don't seem to want certain improvements in certain places (such as never using workboats or wanting to clear-cut a forest). Xien and I were looking at it earlier - once that is sorted, I think I'd be happy to say the AI actually works for the basic game, which then allows us to look at things such as Magic Use and Terraforming in more detail...

Ooooh... Can't wait to see the AI actually using high strength units. :goodjob:

Ooooh... Can't wait to see the AI actually using high strength units. :goodjob:

Committed it a few minutes ago - mostly CvGameUtil.py...

What I found is not so much a bug as a flawed gameplay mechanic. When Goblin Archers spawn early in the game, they tend to use ranged attacks on any unit that is next to them. This works well. What doesn't work is how the AI handles the situation when their unit is attacked. They don't run away from the archer - they attempt to fortify until healed. The problem is, under constant archer barrage, the unit never fully heals, and thus stays under archer attack indefinitely. This results in savage archers having Combat V, Drill IV, Archery III, and a myriad of other promotions around turn 100. These archers then fortify and never move, and when your civilization expands around them, they're a constant nuisance you can't get rid of because they're so powerful your units can't even damage them, let alone kill them.

Do you know how hard it is to kill a unit armed with poison, +100% strength, 3-7 first strikes, and able to take half the life of any unit of yours that comes near?

Known bug. Xienwolf actually had a fix, but it caused a CTD when a hawk was used.

Discovered a couple of things during my tinkering.

I removed the requirement for slavetrade from the "sell slave" spell (I made a slave auction building)...and discovered that I couldn't sell slaves. Ever. Could buy them just fine. It appears that the fact that the "sell slave" spell had all costs and no effect made the game decide it was never available to cast. Had it add "no promotion" promotion to caster and now it works fine.

The no sea creatures appearing thing...the sea serpent and tortoise had two entries in the unitinfos xml, one in the old spot and one with the Jotnar stuff. Game was only reading the second iteration, which had no native terrains. Deleted the first entry and added terrainnatives to the second, now I have sea critters. 10 Strength invisible sea creatures.... :eek:


EDIT: Apologies if either of these was already discovered and fixed. I ain't reading 73 pages of thread. :D

Interresting game, Shelba is head of overcouncil and everyone seem to be in good term with the only evil on the map :) By the way, the cualli is a worthy oponent.

Here are 2 exceptions I got at turn 320.

Patch N and ffh2 40z

The no sea creatures appearing thing...the sea serpent and tortoise had two entries in the unitinfos xml, one in the old spot and one with the Jotnar stuff. Game was only reading the second iteration, which had no native terrains. Deleted the first entry and added terrainnatives to the second, now I have sea critters. 10 Strength invisible sea creatures.... :eek:

Actually, that second entry is for the Jotnar...... Didn't know it was flat out replacing the original entry, but rather than delete, I'd rename them both to be animal_JOTNAR, and fix the civilization entry. That way the Jotnar still have their special serpents and turtles, and so does the animal civ.

What I found is not so much a bug as a flawed gameplay mechanic. When Goblin Archers spawn early in the game, they tend to use ranged attacks on any unit that is next to them. This works well. What doesn't work is how the AI handles the situation when their unit is attacked. They don't run away from the archer - they attempt to fortify until healed. The problem is, under constant archer barrage, the unit never fully heals, and thus stays under archer attack indefinitely. This results in savage archers having Combat V, Drill IV, Archery III, and a myriad of other promotions around turn 100. These archers then fortify and never move, and when your civilization expands around them, they're a constant nuisance you can't get rid of because they're so powerful your units can't even damage them, let alone kill them.

Do you know how hard it is to kill a unit armed with poison, +100% strength, 3-7 first strikes, and able to take half the life of any unit of yours that comes near?

I agree that you see some unbelievable Goblin Archers in the early game for the reason you mention. I didn't notice HOW they were getting all that XP, but you've explained it.

I've also noticed similarly superpowered Goblin Archers in cities. I believe the ones on the forts sometimes migrate to a barb city creating a city that is impregnable for some time without losing a bunch of units.

Another bug(not sure if it's been mentioned) - the AI can't accumulate religion victory %. I can have a single city with a religion(It is a holycity obviously), and get 2% on the religious percentage graph. On the other hand, 70%(rough estimate) of the world follows Fellowship of Leaves but the civ that controls the holycity(it is their state religion) still has 0% on the victory screen.

I just tried FF0.5G and had unit model display issue. It displays the default Civ4 model for those standstill units, while there is no such problem for FfH2 0.4t. I tried different civs and even re-intalled FfH and FF but the problem persists.

Hi guys,

Thanks for your amazing job :goodjob: ! I won't congratulate you all more in this thread since it aims at bug report... but thank you !!

I experience a similar issue than the one I quoted.

As an example, each savage warrior is displayed as a classical orc warrior or as a civ4 warrior (the display goes from one skin to the other each turn - if needed, I can screenshot this problem). All units behave the same way.

I'm playing with FFH2040 (patch Z), FF050 (patch N)

Hope my english is not too bad and my question not stupid ;). If anyone has any clue what's going on :)
Thanks for reading me.
Mathieu

Turn off the "Static Animations" player option.

While randomly looking through the codebase I noticed a function that doesn't seem to be complete. As far as I can tell it's only used to check the number of owned mana for the purpose of spawning gate creatures for the Khadi. Suggested correction in green.


def countMana(self, pPlayer):
iNum = 0
iNum += pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForSt ring('BONUS_MANA_AIR'))
iNum += pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForSt ring('BONUS_MANA_BODY'))
iNum += pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForSt ring('BONUS_MANA_CHAOS'))
iNum += pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForSt ring('BONUS_MANA_DEATH'))
iNum += pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForSt ring('BONUS_MANA_EARTH'))
iNum += pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForSt ring('BONUS_MANA_ENCHANTMENT'))
iNum += pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForSt ring('BONUS_MANA_ENTROPY'))
iNum += pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForSt ring('BONUS_MANA_FIRE'))
iNum += pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForSt ring('BONUS_MANA_LAW'))
iNum += pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForSt ring('BONUS_MANA_LIFE'))
iNum += pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForSt ring('BONUS_MANA_METAMAGIC'))
iNum += pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForSt ring('BONUS_MANA_MIND'))
iNum += pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForSt ring('BONUS_MANA_NATURE'))
iNum += pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForSt ring('BONUS_MANA_SHADOW'))
iNum += pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForSt ring('BONUS_MANA_SPIRIT'))
iNum += pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForSt ring('BONUS_MANA_SUN'))
iNum += pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForSt ring('BONUS_MANA_WATER'))
iNum += pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForSt ring('BONUS_MANA_CREATION'))
iNum += pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForSt ring('BONUS_MANA_FORCE'))
iNum += pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForSt ring('BONUS_MANA_ICE'))
iNum += pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForSt ring('BONUS_MANA_DIMENSIONAL'))

return iNum

There is a minor inconsistency regarding the Master's Hall. The Hall is available with trade, but it also requires the Master Rancher, which requires Feudalism, which comes after Trade.

It is nothing major, just odd to require a more advanced tech before you can build a building made available earlier in the tree.

It turns out you can make the hunter and probably hill giant events work again by removing the following line for the wolf, tiger, gorilla, lion and hill giant entries in civ4unitclassinfos.xml:

<bUnique>1</bUnique>

I'm not sure what that's supposed to do, but I haven't noticed anything unusual so far.

Those make it so that a Civ needs to have the unit listed in their CivilizationInfos to have it as a valid unit type. I guess events offer you units as UnitClass instead of UnitType, which needs fixed so we can have events offer you a Vampire even though you are Balseraph and you actually GET a Vampire, and not a Freak.

Other than these events, the only way you would notice a change is that the Pedia won't show that Wolves, etc. are available only to the Animal Civilization.

The Mercurians appear to be unable to gain angels now. I first experienced this in an FF+ game, but to my knowledge Valkrionn hasn't touched the Mercurian code so I came back to FF to do a test. Patch N, Play Now, Bannor. The only things I did through world builder were to add a bunch of Great Scientists and Engineers so I could do things quicker, and then to provide a barbarian unit to suicide into.

I founded Order, then built a second city and researched Fanaticism. I built the Mercurian Gate in the second city and a Confessor in my capitol. Basium spawned and took over the second city. I created a Barbarian unit, and then suicided my confessor into it. Basium did not gain an angel.

The original time this happened, I also tested multiple Vicars and Stonewardens.

....so we can have events offer you a Vampire even though you are Balseraph and you actually GET a Vampire, and not a Freak.

Shouldn't that be


....so we can have events offer you a Vampire even though you are Balseraph and you actually GET a Vampire, and not a Champion.


Vampires are a champion UU.

I thought Freaks were also Champion, they are Axemen then I assume? Anyway, ya get da point!

I thought Freaks were also Champion, they are Axemen then I assume? Anyway, ya get da point!
Freaks are a non replacement unit these days.
Although. It costs 5 gold to upgrade them into a Swordsman OR Archer. ^.^' Which is kinda nice.
(Since, Freak->Swordsman=+1 base str. And Freak->Archer=+2 def and all that arhcery goodness... Fear my heroic defence archer with stoneskin and hardy..)

freaks are a "true" UU. They have their own unitclass, and don't replace anything.

Question. When the 'Zone of Chaos' event occurs, the one that will optionally mutate one of your units, does this event cut out all the negative promotions that one can potentially get from the Mutate spell? Because i have noticed previously that whenever it happens i never get a negative effect.

Question. When the 'Zone of Chaos' event occurs, the one that will optionally mutate one of your units, does this event cut out all the negative promotions that one can potentially get from the Mutate spell? Because i have noticed previously that whenever it happens i never get a negative effect.

I seem to recall getting negative effects from that quite frequently. Perhaps you've just lucky.


In fact, I'm CERTAIN. Yesterday, it happened to a worker. He came out with Mobility I and Withered,

I had it happen to a scout just yesterday. He was blessed with poison resistance and cursed with being plagued, enervated and weak. Fortunately he was also enraged so I wasn't burdened with his maintenance cost for too much longer.

I carefully considering that event before saying yes. One bad mutation and your plans for well promoted unit might go right out the window.

Something that's always annoyed me.

When you sacrifice a slave, there's a period of about 3 seconds where nothing happens. The entire game just delays for a few secs before the slave vanishes. During that time, you can't select other units, or really do much.

I suspect it's a holdover from the great people, since the Add to Production spell is also used by a great engineer, and he waves his hands about during that period.

Would it be possible to make a different version of the spell for slaves, that doesn't have the pointless delay on it? just an annoyance.

When you sacrifice a slave, there's a period of about 3 seconds where nothing happens. The entire game just delays for a few secs before the slave vanishes. During that time, you can't select other units, or really do much.

Hmm, it doesn't do that for me. Neither do great people do any funky hand waving. I'm an impatient person, though, so I play with "quick movement" and "quick combat offense" on, maybe one of those eliminates the animation.

That's completely cosmetic. You could also get an animator make a nice "slave gets his butt whooped" animation for that slot if you wanted to see something happen. I doubt anyone would be willing to take the time to work out another approach to that mechanic just to avoid a small delay (though I admit I also find it annoying to wait for it, I also hate waiting to watch the Hawk do a fly-by when I recon)

(though I admit I also find it annoying to wait for it, I also hate waiting to watch the Hawk do a fly-by when I recon)

You know, I hate that too. The delay actually keeps me from using hawks every turn to watch enemy movement like I should. But I do find it amusing when you set your recon point on an enemy city and the units there freak out and try to attack your hawk.

OMG A HAWK, get it!

That's completely cosmetic. You could also get an animator make a nice "slave gets his butt whooped" animation for that slot if you wanted to see something happen. I doubt anyone would be willing to take the time to work out another approach to that mechanic just to avoid a small delay (though I admit I also find it annoying to wait for it, I also hate waiting to watch the Hawk do a fly-by when I recon)

Well, no animation is really needed at all.

Wouldn't it be possible to have a spell that has an identical effect, and just uses python to add hammers to the city without playing any animations?