I am proposing a new department to be named: Office of Public Relations. I would also like to head up this department.

This department is a good idea because the ideas and thoughs of the participants on the democracy game should be documented and organized and processed through the correct channels instead of assorted posts that might end up missing and un-read. I also think the department should take care of elections and polling (i.e. because public citizens vote for the leaders), so it would see fit that they organize and accomplish this.


Structure of the Office of Public Relations
Chief Officer of Public Relations: Elected
Assitant Chief Officer of Public Relations: Elected along with Chief
Director of Elections: Hired by Cabinet
Director of Polling: Hired by Cabinet
Director of Organization and Issuing: Hired by Chief


If this department passes, I would like to be a canidate for the Chief Officer of Public Relations.


Here ends my proposal.


io/aa

Discussion thread moved to Citizens' Forum

I would like to move this to the citizens forum and put it in the discussion registry.

That was close. I wonder what would have happend if we had both tried to move this at the same time...

Do you guys have any thoughts on the department?

interjectiv, can you say a little more clearly what the main objective of the DPR would be? To summarize events for citizens from disparate posts?

I think there are some legal issues that would need to be resolved as responsibility for elections and polls (and the right of any citizen to create a poll) are spelled out in our constitution, Code of Law, and Code of Standards. Your suggestions on how this might mesh with our laws would be helpful

Could you explain the specifics of the office a bit more? I think I know what you're getting at, but I don't want to comment yet as I may have got the wrong end of the stick. :)

EDIT: Goddammit Danke, stop showing up my slow typing! ;)

:)

I think you are mistaken on the subject of the DPR.

It would not, conduct polling, rather gather, organize, and document results for all polling matters. It is just a way to make sure all polls are heard and recigonized by the government.

I'd think it as an easy way to keep in touch with the citizens thoughts and ideas.

Some kind of poll monitoring and follow-through would be very helpful. Before being modded I shepherded most things through but now I'm finding my time a bit crunched and am having difficulty doing this. Having a dedicated position responsible for watching the official polls and poking people as necessary to get them to the finish line would be very welcome.

I don't think that a new department is necessary for this, though. All of the proposed functions can be accomplished by offices under the current rules.

Maybe you're right? But there could still be a position dedicated to the work. Maybe it should be converted to that proposal instead of an entire department?

Personally I'd suggest either tagging "poll shepherding" onto the Judiciary's list of duties, or creating a non-elected office for the purpose. I don't think this really warrants a full blown government department.

Overall, the proposal has been declined.

Thank you gentlemen for the contributation of your posts.

Originally posted by Eklektikos
Personally I'd suggest either tagging "poll shepherding" onto the Judiciary's list of duties, or creating a non-elected office for the purpose. I don't think this really warrants a full blown government department.

hehe. Especially since without the poll sheparding, it would take at least 6 months to get this department added to the constitution.

It's not declined! We can definitely use the help and it's a very good idea for dedicated offices. Let's assume that each of these positions will be an office. What will their specific duties be?

Originally posted by interjectiv
Overall, the proposal has been declined.

Thank you gentlemen for the contributation of your posts.

I wouldn't really look at it that way. These are only our opinions. Others may think it is a great idea. Personally, I wouldn't want the job of public relations leader, as we, as citizens, can be rather....um....difficult.;)

If it was one person:

The officers job would be to gather, organize, and document polls/election results and issue them to the citizens. This would not make the officer the administrator of polling, just a way to keep the opinions organized. The person then has the duty to issue monthly reports on attitude of the citizens.

It would also be that persons duty to conduct a series of polling at the end of every pass of 90 days to insure that the opinion of the people is not lost or forgotten.

Those would be specific duties of the Chief of Public Relations.

Actually, I think a good idea would be to either create a new sticky thread in the polls forum for poll results exclusively, or to post the results in the poll registry thread. In spite of my general antipathy towards creating more sticky threads, I think the first option might be better in that it would be more readable. This would be operable whether a PR office is created or the duties are just foisted off on the Judiciary

I think that the polling standards commission needs an official officer (officy) person to oversee pollong (EDIT: no, not a type of squid, a typo) and make sure people (ie dis ;)) are posting legal polls. This could be combined with a role to make sure the results of polls were being advertised and adhered to when appropriate. This was almost always done by Shaitan in the past and I think it is a duty that should not fall to the mods or the judiciary.

I think we need a Chief of Public Relations and Polling for this. This should be an elected office in the safe way as census and RPG manager and NOT a member of the executive.

See, if you only give a proposal 2 hours of debate you may miss the people who come out guns blazing on your side! I never let go of an issue until it is well and truly dead. Sometimes longer.

I stricly am against having yet another department :-P

If it is an office, any leader can decide to put it up and nominate a head or have it elected by citizenry.

Introducing yet another department will just clutter our govenmental processes.

I would propose the new president should put up a PR-Office directly from the start. Like every other office (census, cartographic etc.).

Josh: What you speak about is the responsibility of the judicacy or every citizen. All of us can request a review of the judges for any poll. They decide.

Thank you, I totally agree Josh.

So, shall we move it to a poll then?

Why? No poll needed for that. Just persuade the new president or any other leader to officialy open an office, or open it yourself(? yes, it is possible but not polite as the offices are not defined in the rules)

I will not open an office without going through the right channels. I have an idea though, maybe it should be a person alone. Maybe the position should fall under the judicial branch and controled by thier regulations, hmm?

Any leaders whom think that this matter should go forward please say so.

Originally posted by interjectiv
Thank you, I totally agree Josh.

So, shall we move it to a poll then?

Ahh. Back in the old days, we might have. Now we must discuss for at least 24 hours I believe. Or you can just get the current president (Chieftess) to form the office as a non-elected, advisory position...

I will do that.

I think it would be better if we let the debate run for another 24 to 48 hours. Then run an informational poll. Then ask the president to open the office if citizen support is shown. It would be one of the responsibilities of the holder of this office to do what I do now.

Advise when more debate is needed, help structure polls, advise on poll law and explain the best course of action. This is not an easy task, believe me, people don't want to know if thier poll is invalid, unlawful or generally worthless. The PRP office (Public relations and polling) must oversee this, though to formally invalidate and close a thread the judiciary must be consulted.

The PRP officer must have a VERY good knowledge of how to run a poll, the law, convention and construct. I think this is an office that has been lacking and it has fallen to private citizens to offer what help they can.

You don't want to move it to a poll just yet. Trust me ;)

It'd be rather ironic if I had to jump all over a poll about the creation of a position to monitor polling, wouldn't it now?

For your information, here are the rules regarding polling in the demogame (http://www.civfanatics.net/~demogame/constitution_of_phoenatica.htm#COS-F).

Chieftess, her... she is the term 5 president (until last of august at least) and she can open offices at the moment under the presidential reign.

The head of an office is an unelected appointed position, but can also have helpers to work for him/her. The payment is not as high as the one of a department (2gpt for a office head, 1gpt for a office helper) but is ok.
The thread of the office would also reside in the rpg at the moment (and moved to government forum as the new proposal passes). See the chat-office for example (in the rpg subforum).


I wouldnt call it PR-Office though. I would call it "polling office". PR-Office sounds more like a newsmaking office to me, which would in my thoughts be responsible to update the various news-threads.

Looks like were both being shown up for slow typers 'lekti!!

I think Josh is right.

Josh maybe we should get in contact and write an official proposal, hmm?

Maybe judicacy could "run" or "sponsor" or "found" that office!
The office directly works towards them.

DO NOT ESTABLISH THIS OFFICE YET
we have barely begun talking about it. I think it is important, but we need not do it RIGHT NOW, TONIGHT, THIS INSTANT. This needs debate and refining, like all issues. The establishment of a new office should not be taken so lightly as
'just go nd ask a leader to start one up'
All of our current offices serve important administative functions and were subject to atleast some debate, if not always polling and elections.

Dis, I think it is a good idea that the office have a close relationship with the judiciary. You are right, and in many ways the PRP officer would be acting an a para-legal role.

i think he is right.

the role i would see in my mind would be:
* work towards judicacy to fast detect invalid or strange or useless polls
* work towards the mods to summarize poll-results in the poll-index
* work towards the mods to close threads of outdated/closed polls
* help people setup polls which do not like/do not know how to do it

Perhaps the office would be better sanctioned by the Chief Justice rather than the Pres, since the work involved is more Judiciary related than Executive related. Since the officer would be reporting poll issues back to the justices, he or she might as well be officially working for them.

EDIT: I'm beginning to wonder if there's any point in my posting today. Every post I make seems to have been rendered redundant by some typing speed-demon :crazyeye:

ah eklek. too slow again huh? *see above*

That is why I suggested we come up with an official proposal and let the debate again.

The reason why I want you to help me Josh, is because I'd like to have you on my staff if the department/office shall pass into being.

I like it dis

I liked your ideas Dis and Josh. I want to hear more.

ROLES:
1) work towards judicacy to fast detect invalid or strange or useless polls
2) work towards the mods to summarize poll-results in the poll-index and to close threads of outdated/closed polls
3) help people setup polls which do not like/do not know how to do it


WORK TO DO:
1) invalidity detection etc.
if a poll is found, he posts in judical thread for review. from there on, the judges take over
2) poll result summaries and poll-closing
if a poll is closed/outdated, the result will be put in a summary post with the close request into the poll-registry. from there on, the mods take over
3) poll help for citizens
a thread in the government forum (or any other forum which is used for offices) would be opened for the office (like for the other offices also) where citizens can post their poll-related questions. maybe sometimes statistics could also be published there (like how many polls per term, with separation of ruleset/game-related/rpg polls).


HELPERS:
will be possible, as only a little post-centric work has to be done (statistics). there could be endless helpers, but they need to synchronize each other no not post something double or give contradictory advice.

Close requests should go into the "Needed stuff" thread - that's what it's there for :)

I think disorganizer is right.

I'd like to add to the duties:

1/ Documentation by date and time ALL polls for organization efforts and issue a bi-monthly report on polling in the game (i.e. polls that were completed, polls that were invalid etc. etc.)

eklek: maybe not. the mods have to update the data in the poll registry anyways. and there it is all together ;-)

inter: thats what i meant with statistics... finetuning needed of course ;-) for example if a ongoing discussion is detected in a already outdated poll, the office should open a discussion thread for that topic and put a link into the poll-thread before the closing is requested.

Just thinking that posting the mod requests in the "Needed Stuff" thread reduces the number of threads they need to monitor and makes their lives easier. Also keeps the poll registry cleaner.

I think that someone should be dedicated to the work themselves instead of having assorted personell from the justice operate this functions. It is very important that the DPR keep itself organized along with all of its employees, that is why I also submit that all actions within the DPR should be run through executive command in the department.

I think interjectiv's idea is a good one. A consensus gathering and analysis. It will be a lot of work with little compensattion, but sometimes those are the best positions.

Independent of the worthiness of this idea is the excellent timing of this proposal. If the first term is used to construct and shape (for lack of a better phrase) the OPR, and if it is deemed worthy of election status (as opposed to appointment status), the second term elections could include this psition. I also believe it should not be a separate Department, but under the wing of the Judiciary, as the Census is to the Domestic Department. It should probably have its own sticky thread in the Polls sub-forum. I would think that the series of polling referred to above would take place every trem, not every 90 days.

Personally, I have never liked it when the government told me what I was thinking. But that's R/L. This proposal has merit and promise. If we let interjectiv take the ball and run with it (not another sports analogy), build and develop this new Office, perhaps he would be open to suggestions from the seasoned vets, on some of the goals?

Originally posted by eyrei
I would like to move this to the citizens forum and put it in the discussion registry.

That was close. I wonder what would have happend if we had both tried to move this at the same time...

Then there would be chaos. A rip in the fabric of space and time would open, causing temporal anomolies to occur. ;)

Wow, this thread is nearly as popular as Strider's RPG thread when it first opened!

Anyway, I like the idea. I had a similar idea back in Term 4... (more like a few appointed posistions). Time to read the posts. :)

I think the way this is shaping up. I'm going to write an official proposal...

Originally posted by disorganizer
ROLES:
1) work towards judicacy to fast detect invalid or strange or useless polls
2) work towards the mods to summarize poll-results in the poll-index and to close threads of outdated/closed polls
3) help people setup polls which do not like/do not know how to do it


WORK TO DO:
1) invalidity detection etc.
if a poll is found, he posts in judical thread for review. from there on, the judges take over

I think a reply/PM should be sent to the poster of the poll first. Some newbies (and vets. ;)) might not be clear on how to set up a poll. The constitution has a lot to absorb in just a few days, and there could be a critical poll/discussion that someone wants to put up.

interjectiv, you are obviously on to something :) See, you just needed to let it fall out a bit. You definitely hit on a need though, and I look forward to seeing this move ahead. The poll summary alone would be worth it's weight in cheese.

Office of Public Relations

This document refers to the users registered as citizens in the Citizen Registry as "CITIZENS" and refers to the whole people instead of just one, and the head of the OPR as "CHIEF", Staff and helpers in the OPR are refered to as "MEMBERS", "NCM" refers to "NATIONAL CITIZEN MEETINGS". This document also frequently refers to polls as "IT".

Article 1.1
PRIMARY GOAL:
1) Organization and Documentation of the Citizens of Fanatikas' opinions and thoughts to ensure that all voices are heard as loud as possible.

ROLES AND OBLIGATIONS:
1) Work towards judicacy to fast detect invalid, strange or useless polls.
2) Work towards summarizing poll-results in the poll-index.
3) To close threads of outdated polls.
4) Make poll laws and codes of conduct for them.
5) Help citizens setup polls when they do not like/do not know how to accomplish it.
6) Organize and schedule political debates.
7) Advise higher command on how to handle riots or citizen misbehavior.

Article 1.2
DUTIES:
1) Invalid, errored, strange, and useless poll detection, closing and deletion.
If a poll is found, he posts in judical thread for poll review. From there on, the judges take over. Eventually, the person holding the position will be able to make the distincion himself if no response is beheld within a week.

2) Issue a bi-monthly report summarizing all polls in that period of time. This report would also contain polls that were closed and/or deleted.

3) To close outdated polls. The Chief would now advise the command to close outdated polls or clear them out of the registry. Also, in a period of 15 days after a similar polls closing, Citizen cannot create another poll of the same surface matter relating to the one that came before it.

4) The department would be in charge of making poll laws and reviewing the conduct of polls to be formed/existing in the registry.

5) Provide poll assistance for wording, or if the Citizen simply can not/does not have the ability to post a poll. This also will be documented in the bi-monthly report.

6) The orgaization of political debates is key to gather opinions from the vast majority of the citizens and could be refered to as NCM's. This event would take place at the end of every month. All Citizens are suggested but not required to attend such meetings.

7) The OPR should be consulted on all matters of Citizen misbehavior, even how little disputes should be reported and documented for future purposes.

Article 1.3
STRUCTURE OF OFFICE OF PUBLIC RELATIONS
Head Officer of Public Relations: Elected
Assitant Head Officer of Public Relations: Hired by Head Officer
Head of the Advisory Commission: Hired by Head Officer
Director of Elections: Hired by Cabinet
Director of Polling: Hired by Cabinet
Director of Organization and Issuing: Hired by Head Officer
Political Debate Organizer: Hired by Director of Organization and Issuing

HEAD OFFICER OF PUBLIC RELATIONS (ELECTED):
1) Would oversee all OPR operations and give final input on all poll operations.

2) ALL poll laws would have to be approved by this position in order for such laws should be documented unless overridden by a majority vote from the entire Justice panel.

3) Has a vote on all matters concering the state and well being of Fanatikan security.

ASSITANT HEAD OFFICER OF PUBLIC RELATIONS (HIRED BY HEAD OFFICER):
1) Assists the HEAD OFFICER on all duties listed above.

HEAD OF ADVISORY COMMISSION (HIRED BY HEAD OFFICER):
1) The HAC's operations would fall under the jurisdiction of the Justices and is subject to critisim from that department.

2) The HAC would review ALL cases after a period of 30 days after final operation of polls and frequently monitor all polls to ensure the quality of the enviroment when polling.

DIRECTOR OF ELECTIONS (HIRED BY CABINET):
1) Organizes and schedules all election polls, and issues results for those closed.

DIRECTOR OF POLLING (HIRED BY CABINET):
1) Finalizes reports and summaries of reports including public opinion in replies to polls.

DIRECTOR OF ORGANIZATION AND ISSUING (HIRED BY HEAD OFFICER):
1) Organizes all OPR operations and moderates employees.
2) Organizes ALL political operations, including elections and inagurations.

POLITICAL DEBATE ORGANIZER (HIRED BY DIRECTOR OF ORGANIZATION AND ISSUING):
1) Develops political debates for all parties.
2) Moderates all political debates.

REQUIRMENT FOR FILLING ALL POSITIONS: Must be impartial to any and all ethnic groups and political parties to ensure unbaised moderation.

Here ends proposal 1a of the Office of Public Relations.

*********************************************

You can suggest changes to it, because the proposal is still in alpha stage.

It's Shaitan in disguise!

*Nice* work, interjectiv.

I am assuming NCMs are in the form of discussion threads? This is shaping up very nicely.

NCM's will be discussion threads.

Very nicely developed, interjectiv.

One noticeable problem is with lawmaking. This is a responsibility of the Congress (all citizens) and cannot be invested in a single person or group of people.

EDIT:

However, this office should definitely be intimately involved in the discussions and debates on poll procedures and forming proposals for rule changes. They should proactively initiate such discussions when a need becomes aparent.

Thank you, Shiatan.

As I said, I will consider all changes when I write 1b of the proposal.

Anyone else?

We also have the polling standards commission. How will the 2 tie in together? Would this supplant the commission?

I'd like to have the Polling Commission essentailly merge with the OPR, as its own sideoffice.

If a poll needs to be closed, please post the request in the Needed Stuff thread. I never check the poll registry unless I am registering my own poll, because I keep track of the polls myself. Anyway, Shaitan might see it in the registry, but I guarantee I won't.

I am confused wither or not you are supporting the OPR of not supporting it.

Originally posted by disorganizer
eklek: maybe not. the mods have to update the data in the poll registry anyways. and there it is all together ;-)
Negative. We do not update data in the registry. The only time we update based off of registry data is in the index/registry threads where the registry is the input source for the index.

That is why a office to document and save this infomation is vital.

Once I have a chance to really read this thread instead of skimming it, I will decide. Unfortunately I am at work, and cannot keep this page open for very long at a time...

Edit: wow, this thread is really flying. This was a response to whether or not I support this office.

No prob, Eyrei

what about if we let the mods also update the poll-registry and with that turn it into a poll index? the input from the office could be posted in the index-thread for the mods to easily summarize it.
if a poll is closed, it is taken over by the office into the poll-history and statistics.
maybe 2 threads in the poll-subforum would suite:
a poll history and a poll index. the poll index would only hold the active polls, whereas the poll-history contains all ended polls (invalid or not does not matter) and their result. one post per poll, which is updatd as the status changes. posts only allowed by office-personel.

i would not like to see this office as the "sidewing" of a citizen group. impartiality and party-shouting would be the result ;-)
we should not have and group influencing a governmental power, as this is what the office will evolve to.

a forced election of the office head is NOT necessary, as it would only be an office. nevertheless, the leader of the coresponding office CAN of course hold election for that positions if he likes.

relations poll-standards commitee->office:
none. the group can try to propose things to citizens and initiate polls, but must NOT influence the office.

the office should not have any rulemaking powers. they are up to the citizenry in total. this would go against the separation of power.
the office will only have advisory and statistical function. nevertheless, i dont know if SO many positions are really necessary. 3 persons should do.

another note:
we should not add too much in there from the beginning. we know from rpg what happens if we start too fast. first concentrate on the normal polls, and then on elections (as election moderation works good imho at the moment with our mods).

It is not a sidewing of a citizentry group and if you read the official proposal, you'd see that the last artcile states that in order to fill any position you must be impartial to any ethnic and political groups.

The office wouldn't be infulencing the government rather suggesting the best course of action to supplement an important issue.

The office does not have rulemaking powers, rather the head has a vote in all matters. The office would hold its own poll and then whatever choice gets the majority of the vote, the office then submits to the poll itself.

Yes, the position each have a role and are thier for all separate reasons. I think the number of positions is fine.

The OPR would simply organize polls so that they remain heard and documented. We would not force an election, rather orgainize, conduct and survey it.


Proposal 1b is on its way.

Ok. I like this proposal. We should try it in some form or another as an unelected position during this term, and then assess whether it should become an elected position. Also, as dis said, we should keep it simple from the beginning, and once what we have works, add some more. We are already bogged down in a lot of rules, so lets not add a whole bunch more right away.

We will debate about it for another 24 hours to sufficently hear the majority of the opinion and if there is enough, I will consult the President on the proposal and draw up a final FINAL proposal.

@disorganizer - We really don't have time to reference back polls to the poll registry thread in order to update the poll registry. If somebody could dedicate the time to do this and post instructions in Needed Things we could then quickly update/delete/whatever. We definitely will not be doing the referencing though.

References?

Originally posted by interjectiv
References?
disorganizer had said "what about if we let the mods also update the poll-registry and with that turn it into a poll index?"

Previously the talk had been to update the poll registry with poll results.

It's just too much work for a mod to do that but if someone else did the leg work and left instruction sets in Needed Stuff or via PM we could do the actual updates.

Interjectiv - Thank you for keeping this open for more discussion. I've gone over the first proposal and would like to share my thoughts.

Your goals are well written, I like them and think you should keep them. But I think the meat of the proposal strays from your goals.

In your Roles and Obligations -
I really only think numbers 1,2,5, & 7 are items to be focused on. The others may be brought in later after much more discussion and re-writing.

In your Duties -
I think these really need to be re-written after some healthy discussion. #5 is good, but how is this reporting going to affect the people that need help writing polls? #6 is good, but I think the analysis of polls and elections should take place at the begining of each month, after the elections. I definately think #'s 3, 4, & 6 should be taken out.

As far as your Personnel and their responsibilties, I think you should just concentrate on the Head Officer, the Assistant Head Officer, and the Director of Polling. The other positions/duties seem a little too advanced at this time.

Quoting eyrei:
Ok. I like this proposal. We should try it in some form or another as an unelected position during this term, and then assess whether it should become an elected position. Also, as dis said, we should keep it simple from the beginning, and once what we have works, add some more. We are already bogged down in a lot of rules, so lets not add a whole bunch more right away.

I pretty much agree with eyrei here. Your first proposal seems to take too much on at the begining. I like your approach to the Office, but I believe you should start off with small steps, even in your proposal.

Just my thoughts,
Cyc

@shaitan: that was the proposal ;-)

Originally posted by disorganizer
@shaitan: that was the proposal ;-)
gotcha ;)

Ok, i'll take your opinions i like alot of them. impressive cyc. i'd like to get some poepl to help me with proposl 1b though.

I'd be happy to help you with that, if you'd like interjectiv. As the month is coming to a close, I'll be a little short on time, but still happy to help.

Alright, we will get together on that.

For now, I'd like to ask Shiatan for final word before Proposal 1b is drawn up and we take it to a vote.

I think it is evolving very well. Go ahead and work up 1b and post it. We'll review it and hopefully move to a poll.

Office of Public Relations: Proposal 1b

This document refers to the users registered as citizens in the Citizen Registry as "CITIZENS" and refers to the whole people instead of just one, and the head of the OPR as "CHIEF", Staff and helpers in the OPR are refered to as "MEMBERS", "NCM" refers to "NATIONAL CITIZEN MEETINGS" (in the form of discussion threads). This document also frequently refers to polls as "IT".

Article 1.1
PRIMARY GOAL:
1) To keep the Fanakian people well heard with thier opinions, keeping the relationship between the government and the people in good standing.

ROLES AND OBLIGATIONS:
1) Work towards judicacy to fast detect invalid, strange or useless polls.
2) Work towards summarizing poll-results in the poll-index and registry.
3) To close threads of outdated polls.
4) Make poll laws and codes of conduct for them.
5) Help citizens setup polls when they do not like/do not know how to accomplish it.
6) Organize and schedule political debates.
7) Advise higher command on how to handle riots or citizen misbehavior.
8) To make sure the government and the people work together to make a better world.

Article 1.2
DUTIES:
1) Invalid, errored, strange, and useless poll detection, closing and deletion.
If a poll is found, he posts in judical thread for poll review. From there on, the judges take over. Eventually, the person holding the position will be able to make the distincion himself if no response is beheld within a week.

2) Issue a bi-monthly report summarizing all polls in that period of time. This report would also contain polls that were closed and/or deleted.

3) To close outdated polls. The Chief would now advise the command to close outdated polls or clear them out of the registry. Also, in a period of 15 days after a similar polls closing, Citizen cannot create another poll of the same surface matter relating to the one that came before it.

4) The OPR MUST be advised beforehand on all changes to any law and and SHOULD be advised on poll laws, changes, and discussions.

5) Provide poll assistance for wording, or if the Citizen simply can not/does not have the ability to post a poll.

6) The orgaization of political debates is key to gather opinions from the vast majority of the citizens and could be refered to as NCM's. This event would take place at the beginning of every month. All Citizens are suggested but not required to attend such meetings.

7) The OPR should be consulted on all matters of Citizen misbehavior, even how little disputes should be reported and documented for future purposes.

8) The OPR would be consulted and would advise on changes in poll laws, and standards.

Article 1.3
STRUCTURE OF OFFICE OF PUBLIC RELATIONS
Head Officer of Public Relations: Elected
Assitant Head Officer of Public Relations: Hired by Head Officer
Head of the Advisory Commission: Hired by Head Officer
Director of Elections: Hired by Cabinet
Director of Polling: Hired by Cabinet
Director of Organization and Issuing: Hired by Head Officer
Political Debate Organizer: Hired by Director of Organization and Issuing

HEAD OFFICER OF PUBLIC RELATIONS (ELECTED):
1) Would oversee all OPR operations and give final input on all poll operations.

2) Has a vote on all matters concering the state and well being of Fanatikan security.

ASSITANT HEAD OFFICER OF PUBLIC RELATIONS (HIRED BY HEAD OFFICER):
1) Assists the HEAD OFFICER on all duties listed above.

HEAD OF ADVISORY COMMISSION (HIRED BY HEAD OFFICER):
1) The HAC's operations would fall under the jurisdiction of the Justices and is subject to critisim from that department.

2) The HAC would review ALL cases after a period of 30 days after final operation of polls and frequently monitor all polls to ensure the quality of the enviroment when polling.

DIRECTOR OF ELECTIONS (HIRED BY CABINET):
1) Organizes and schedules all election polls, and issues results for those closed.

DIRECTOR OF POLLING (HIRED BY CABINET):
1) Finalizes reports and summaries of reports including public opinion in replies to polls.

DIRECTOR OF ORGANIZATION AND ISSUING (HIRED BY HEAD OFFICER):
1) Organizes all OPR operations and moderates employees.
2) Organizes ALL political operations, including elections and inagurations.

POLITICAL DEBATE ORGANIZER (HIRED BY DIRECTOR OF ORGANIZATION AND ISSUING):
1) Develops political debates for all parties.
2) Moderates all political debates.

REQUIRMENT FOR FILLING ALL POSITIONS: Must be impartial to any and all ethnic groups and political parties to ensure unbaised moderation.

Article 1.4
CHANGES TO EXISTING ORGANIZATIONS

1) The OPR would become somewhat of an official PSC (polling standards commision). The two organizations would work intimately together on all aspects of power allocated to the OPR. After a period of 3 months, a vote will be taken on weither or not to merge the two organizations. Until that times arises, the OPR MUST consult the PSC on all operations.

Article 1.5
POSITION IN GOVERNMENT

1) The OPR would have advisory status in the government. The OPR would be let in on ALL aspects of military functions because these actions threaten the lives of citizens under the consitituion of Fanakia.

2) Positions in the OPR would be elected unless stated otherwise.

3) Until the coming of the second term, the OPR would remain a unelected office run by a hired Head Officer by the President of Fanakia and/or subordiants. When the second term arises, the OPR would then become a official department in the state and become under elected operators.

Here ends proposal 1b of the Office of Public Relations.


io/ya
*********************************************

Wow! For once, Shaitan and Disorganizer haven't written up a nice article to the constitution! :D

Nice work.

*laugh* Thanks.

Items I suggested changing are in italics. Items I suggest removing are in bold:

Article 1.1
PRIMARY GOAL:
1) To keep the Fanatikan people well heard with thier opinions, keeping the relationship between the government and the people in good standing.

ROLES AND OBLIGATIONS:
1) Work with judicacy to quickly identify invalid, strange or useless polls.
2) Work towards summarizing poll-results in the poll-index and registry.
3) Notify mods to close threads of outdated polls.
4) Initiate and organize discussion of poll rules and the standards for those rules.
5) Help citizens setup polls when they do not like to or do not know how to accomplish it.
6) Organize and schedule political debates.
7) Advise higher command on how to handle riots or citizen misbehavior.
8) To make sure the government and the people work together to make a better world.

Article 1.2
DUTIES:
1) Invalid, errored, strange, and useless poll detection, closing and deletion.
If a poll is found, he posts in judical thread for poll review. From there on, the judges take over. Eventually, the person holding the position will be able to make the distincion himself if no response is beheld within a week.

2) Issue a bi-monthly report summarizing all polls in that period of time. This report would also contain polls that were closed and/or deleted.

3) To close outdated polls. The Chief would now advise the command to close outdated polls or clear them out of the registry.(Remove this bolded part, it should be in the poll Standards, not part of the position description.) Also, in a period of 15 days after a similar polls closing, Citizen cannot create another poll of the same surface matter relating to the one that came before it.

4) The OPR (Remove this bolded part, this is already posted to the Judiciary thread. the OPR can simply subscribe to that thread.) MUST be advised beforehand on all changes to any law and SHOULD be consulted on poll laws, changes, and discussions.

5) Provide poll assistance for wording, or if the Citizen simply can not/does not have the ability to post a poll.

6) The orgaization of political debates is key to gather opinions from the vast majority of the citizens and could be refered to as NCM's. This event would take place at the beginning of every month. All Citizens are suggested but not required to attend such meetings.

7) The OPR should be notified of all matters of Citizen misbehavior, even how little disputes should be reported and documented for future purposes.

8) The OPR would be consulted and would advise on changes in poll laws, and standards.

Article 1.3
STRUCTURE OF OFFICE OF PUBLIC RELATIONS
Head Officer of Public Relations: Appointed by Chief Justice
Assitant Head Officer of Public Relations: Hired by Head Officer
Head of the Advisory Commission: Hired by Head Officer
Director of Elections: Hired by Cabinet
Director of Polling: Hired by Cabinet
Director of Organization and Issuing: Hired by Head Officer
Political Debate Organizer: Hired by Director of Organization and Issuing

HEAD OFFICER OF PUBLIC RELATIONS (APPOINTED):
1) Would oversee all OPR operations and give final input on all poll operations.

2)(All citizens have this vote already.) Has a vote on all matters concering the state and well being of Fanatikan security.

ASSITANT HEAD OFFICER OF PUBLIC RELATIONS (HIRED BY HEAD OFFICER):
1) Assists the HEAD OFFICER on all duties listed above.

HEAD OF ADVISORY COMMISSION (HIRED BY HEAD OFFICER):
1) The HAC's operations would fall under the jurisdiction of the Justices and is subject to critisim from that department.

2) The HAC would review ALL cases after a period of 30 days after final operation of polls and frequently monitor all polls to ensure the quality of the enviroment when polling.

DIRECTOR OF ELECTIONS (HIRED BY CABINET):
(Election poll schedules are set in the Code of Standards.) 1) Organizes and schedules all election polls, and Issues results for those closed.

DIRECTOR OF POLLING (HIRED BY CABINET):
1) Finalizes reports and summaries of reports including public opinion in replies to polls.

DIRECTOR OF ORGANIZATION AND ISSUING (HIRED BY HEAD OFFICER):
1) Organizes all OPR operations and moderates employees.
2) Organizes ALL political operations, including elections and inagurations.

POLITICAL DEBATE ORGANIZER (HIRED BY DIRECTOR OF ORGANIZATION AND ISSUING):
1) Develops political debates for all parties.
2) Moderates all political debates.

REQUIRMENT FOR FILLING ALL POSITIONS: Must be impartial to any and all ethnic groups (We don't have/allow parties.) and political parties to ensure unbaised moderation.

Article 1.4
CHANGES TO EXISTING ORGANIZATIONS

1) The OPR would become somewhat of an official PSC (polling standards commision). The two organizations would work intimately together on all aspects of power allocated to the OPR. After a period of 3 months, a vote will be taken on weither or not to merge the two organizations. Until that times arises, the OPR MUST consult the PSC on all operations.

Article 1.5
POSITION IN GOVERNMENT

1) The OPR would have advisory status in the government. The OPR would be let in on ALL aspects of military functions because these actions threaten the lives of citizens under the consitituion of Fanakia.

2) Positions in the OPR would be appointed as specified.

(Remove this. Trying to create another Department will doom the whole proposal to failure.) 3) Until the coming of the second term, the OPR would remain a unelected office run by a hired Head Officer by the President of Fanakia and/or subordiants. When the second term arises, the OPR would then become a official department in the state and become under elected operators.

Nice. Office, i meant office Shaitan :)

This is my feedback on Shaitan's feedback. I don't think enough things have been removed/dealt with.
Stuff I think should be deleted is underlined. Shaitan's italics for change, bold for remove have been left in.

Originally posted by Shaitan
Items I suggested changing are in italics. Items I suggest removing are in bold:

Article 1.1
PRIMARY GOAL:
1) To keep the Fanatikan people well heard with thier opinions, keeping the relationship between the government and the people in good standing.

ROLES AND OBLIGATIONS:
1) Work with judicacy to quickly identify invalid, strange or useless polls.
2) Work towards summarizing poll-results in the poll-index and registry.
3) Notify mods to close threads of outdated polls.
4) Initiate and organize discussion of poll rules and the standards for those rules.
5) Help citizens setup polls when they do not like to or do not know how to accomplish it.
6) Organize and schedule political debates.
7) Advise higher command on how to handle riots or citizen misbehavior.
8) To make sure the government and the people work together to make a better world.

Article 1.2
DUTIES:
1) Invalid, errored, strange, and useless poll detection, closing and deletion.
If a poll is found, he posts in judical thread for poll review. From there on, the judges take over. Eventually, the person holding the position will be able to make the distincion himself if no response is beheld within a week.

2) Issue a bi-monthly report summarizing all polls in that period of time. This report would also contain polls that were closed and/or deleted.

3) To close outdated polls. The Chief would now advise the command to close outdated polls or clear them out of the registry.(Remove this bolded part, it should be in the poll Standards, not part of the position description.) Also, in a period of 15 days after a similar polls closing, Citizen cannot create another poll of the same surface matter relating to the one that came before it.

4) The OPR (Remove this bolded part, this is already posted to the Judiciary thread. the OPR can simply subscribe to that thread.) MUST be advised beforehand on all changes to any law and SHOULD be consulted on poll laws, changes, and discussions.

5) Provide poll assistance for wording, or if the Citizen simply can not/does not have the ability to post a poll.

6) The orgaization of political debates is key to gather opinions from the vast majority of the citizens and could be refered to as NCM's. This event would take place at the beginning of every month. All Citizens are suggested but not required to attend such meetings.

7) The OPR should be notified of all matters of Citizen misbehavior, even how little disputes should be reported and documented for future purposes.

8) The OPR would be consulted and would advise on changes in poll laws, and standards.

Article 1.3
STRUCTURE OF OFFICE OF PUBLIC RELATIONS
Head Officer of Public Relations: Appointed by Chief Justice
Assitant Head Officer of Public Relations: Hired by Head Officer
Head of the Advisory Commission: Hired by Head Officer
Director of Elections: Hired by Cabinet
Director of Polling: Hired by Cabinet
Director of Organization and Issuing: Hired by Head Officer
Political Debate Organizer: Hired by Director of Organization and Issuing

HEAD OFFICER OF PUBLIC RELATIONS (APPOINTED):
1) Would oversee all OPR operations and give final input on all poll operations.

2)(All citizens have this vote already.) Has a vote on all matters concering the state and well being of Fanatikan security.

ASSITANT HEAD OFFICER OF PUBLIC RELATIONS (HIRED BY HEAD OFFICER):
1) Assists the HEAD OFFICER on all duties listed above.

HEAD OF ADVISORY COMMISSION (HIRED BY HEAD OFFICER):
1) The HAC's operations would fall under the jurisdiction of the Justices and is subject to critisim from that department.

2) The HAC would review ALL cases after a period of 30 days after final operation of polls and frequently monitor all polls to ensure the quality of the enviroment when polling.

DIRECTOR OF ELECTIONS (HIRED BY CABINET):
(Election poll schedules are set in the Code of Standards.) 1) Organizes and schedules all election polls, and Issues results for those closed.

DIRECTOR OF POLLING (HIRED BY CABINET):
1) Finalizes reports and summaries of reports including public opinion in replies to polls.

DIRECTOR OF ORGANIZATION AND ISSUING (HIRED BY HEAD OFFICER):
1) Organizes all OPR operations and moderates employees.
2) Organizes ALL political operations, including elections and inagurations.
(you know a department is too big if they need a staff manager. None of the roles here really need to be done by a seperate office, let alone an employed Office Bearer.)

POLITICAL DEBATE ORGANIZER (HIRED BY DIRECTOR OF ORGANIZATION AND ISSUING):
1) Develops political debates for all parties.
2) Moderates all political debates.
(totally unessissary. The Inquisitaors develop debates and the the debate threads could easily be started/moderated by the director of elections.)

REQUIRMENT FOR FILLING ALL POSITIONS: Must be impartial to any and all ethnic (replace with INTREST groups, makes more sence.) groups (We don't have/allow parties.) and political parties to ensure unbaised moderation.

Article 1.4
CHANGES TO EXISTING ORGANIZATIONS

1) The OPR would become somewhat of an official PSC (polling standards commision). The two organizations would work intimately together on all aspects of power allocated to the OPR. After a period of 3 months, a vote will be taken on weither or not to merge the two organizations. Until that times arises, the OPR MUST consult the PSC on all operations.
(this paragraph should be removed entirely. We are creating this office independant of the PSC. It assumes the roles unofficially undertaken by the PS commissioner, but that is all. There is no reason to disband the PSC. If it becomes irrelevant it will just drop of the first forum page. Besisdes, how do you merge a citizen group with an office?)

Article 1.5
POSITION IN GOVERNMENT

1) The OPR would have advisory status in the government. The OPR would be let in on ALL aspects of military functions because these actions threaten the lives of citizens under the consitituion of Fanakia.
(I think this may ge a little to far and over strsses the importance of the role. The millitary department has to let everyone know what they are doing, the PRC office should not get special treatment)

2) Positions in the OPR would be appointed as specified.

(Remove this. Trying to create another Department will doom the whole proposal to failure.) 3) Until the coming of the second term, the OPR would remain a unelected office run by a hired Head Officer by the President of Fanakia and/or subordiants. When the second term arises, the OPR would then become a official department in the state and become under elected operators.

I have tried to cut this back to make it more workable. Two offices at least should be removed. The demogame RPG office has only five positions and requires alot more work.

1c
This is what it would look like with all current modifications.

Article 1.1
PRIMARY GOAL:
1) To keep the Fanatikan people well heard with thier opinions, keeping the relationship between the government and the people in good standing.

ROLES AND OBLIGATIONS:
1) Work with judicacy to quickly identify invalid, strange or useless polls.
2) Work towards summarizing poll-results in the poll-index and registry.
3) Notify mods to close threads of outdated polls.
4) Initiate and organize discussion of poll rules and the standards for those rules.
5) Help citizens setup polls when they do not like to or do not know how to accomplish it.
6) Organize and schedule political debates.
7) Advise higher command on how to handle riots or citizen misbehavior.
8) To make sure the government and the people work together to make a better world.

Article 1.2
DUTIES:
1) Invalid, errored, strange, and useless poll detection, closing and deletion.
If a poll is found, he posts in judical thread for poll review. From there on, the judges take over. Eventually, the person holding the position will be able to make the distincion himself if no response is beheld within a week.

2) Issue a bi-monthly report summarizing all polls in that period of time. This report would also contain polls that were closed and/or deleted.

3) To close outdated polls. The Chief would now advise the command to close outdated polls or clear them out of the registry.

4) The OPR should be consulted on poll laws, changes, and discussions.

5) Provide poll assistance for wording, or if the Citizen simply can not/does not have the ability to post a poll.

6) The orgaization of political debates is key to gather opinions from the vast majority of the citizens and could be refered to as NCM's. This event would take place at the beginning of every month. All Citizens are suggested but not required to attend such meetings.

7) The OPR should be notified of all matters of Citizen misbehavior, even how little disputes should be reported and documented for future purposes.

8) The OPR would be consulted and would advise on changes in poll laws, and standards.

Article 1.3
STRUCTURE OF OFFICE OF PUBLIC RELATIONS
Head Officer of Public Relations: Appointed by Chief Justice
Assitant Head Officer of Public Relations: Hired by Head Officer
Head of the Advisory Commission: Hired by Head Officer
Director of Elections: Hired by Cabinet
Director of Polling: Hired by Cabinet
Director of Organization and Issuing: Hired by Head Officer
Political Debate Organizer: Hired by Director of Organization and Issuing

HEAD OFFICER OF PUBLIC RELATIONS (APPOINTED):
1) Would oversee all OPR operations and give final input on all poll operations.

ASSITANT HEAD OFFICER OF PUBLIC RELATIONS (HIRED BY HEAD OFFICER):
1) Assists the HEAD OFFICER on all duties listed above.

HEAD OF ADVISORY COMMISSION (HIRED BY HEAD OFFICER):
1) The HAC's operations would fall under the jurisdiction of the Justices and is subject to critisim from that department.
2) The HAC would review ALL cases after a period of 30 days after final operation of polls and frequently monitor all polls to ensure the quality of the enviroment when polling.

DIRECTOR OF ELECTIONS (HIRED BY CABINET):
1) Issues results for those closed.
2) Moderates all political debates.

DIRECTOR OF POLLING (HIRED BY CABINET):
1) Finalizes reports and summaries of reports including public opinion in replies to polls.


REQUIRMENT FOR FILLING ALL POSITIONS: Must be impartial to any and all interest groups to ensure unbaised moderation.

Article 1.4
POSITION IN GOVERNMENT

1) The OPR would have advisory status in the government.

2) Positions in the OPR would be appointed as specified.



This still needs some work I think.

No, I reject that as version 1c of the proposal. You remove to much of the core aspects and jobs in the office.

josh, you never cease to amaze me. remember- vote him to lead our new cities. also, vote me in my elections.

A few thoughts...

First, the judiciary handles all cases of actions that are against our laws. I want to ensure that is clear.

Second, all actions of this group involving the government need to be approved by an elected official.

I would suggest before this goes any further, that all who are working on this read our constitution, CoL, and CoS here (http://www.civfanatics.net/~demogame/constitution_of_fanatika.htm).

I have Octovain.

@interjective - I believe Shaitan and AJ were both very skillful with their scalpels. I believe I suggested cutting a large chunk out of your original proposal. These guys are trying to help you.

I realize you are new here, but you can't just show up and buldoze out a section of the Demogame and insert your Department. Can I ask who you are? You seem to have gotten a good amount of your post count in this thread alone. Is this just a new name for you or are you new the the CFC forums? And why won't you accept the help of people here that have held high level government positions in the Demogame?

I think cyc has some valid points, especially the fact that we both (me and Shaitan) LIKE this proposal and are trying to get it to a state where it will both be passed and be workable.

Though the input of new players is not to be overlooked, when changing laws there are principals and theories that must first be considered. Basically, many aspects of this proposal before the scalpaling would have required large changes to other parts of the law, been unworkable or superfulous and possibly stopped the motion from passing.

To begin with, a law is best over-written, but it is then up to everyone to delete/add/change parts to make it fit better within the overall construct and to best set out what it needs to do.

Don't take our suggestions as afforts, or even as final. Just advice from people who do this alot! :)

The main problem, as I see it, is that is you are trying to create an entire new office. This would better function as a citizen group. I would be adamantly against adding an office that takes government decisions and placed them in the hands of unelected positions.

Forget the entire proposal. Just forget the whole thing

Hmmmm..... Isnt this a bid overdoing things?

* Just get the office founded by the judicacy (thats why we have offices)
* Just get the head appointed and he can get as many deputies as he likes
* Just put up SIMPLE function for this office (i think the first proposals were ok, but these we have now are FAR too much for an office. The thing is almost as long as the book of laws!).

I agree. This was a fantastic idea and has been put forward and abandoned several times in our previous life (game 1). I strongly recommend continuing the pursuit of this office.

Well, someone else can take the idea and run with it becasue I don't think I need to slave myself to make the proposal exactly so every single person playing the demogame accepts it.

You'll never do that. There's always a dissenter...

I do agree that this would work well as an office. If not an office, we can certainly put something in the CoS that gives the Judiciary the authority to declare polls invalid and have them closed.

Maybe we should write up something short for law, and have this longer piece as a sort of 'office consititution'. Just a guide to how the office is supposed to function.

go ahead, ain't my idea anymore.

if interjectiv is no longer going to run this, i will take it over. here is my proposed draft for 1c, my changes in parentheses.

Article 1.1
PRIMARY GOAL:
1) To keep the Fanatikan people well heard with their opinions, keeping the relationship between the government and the people in good standing.

ROLES AND OBLIGATIONS:
1) Work (independently) to quickly identify invalid, strange or useless polls.
2) Work towards summarizing poll-results in the poll-index and registry.
3) Notify mods to close threads of outdated polls.
4) Initiate and organize discussion of poll rules and the standards for those rules.
5) Help citizens setup polls when they do not know how to accomplish it.
6) Organize and schedule political debates.
7) Advise higher command on how to handle riots or citizen misbehavior.
8) To make sure the government and the people work together to make a better world.

Article 1.2
DUTIES:
1) Invalid, errored, strange, and useless poll detection, closing and deletion.
If a poll is found, the person holding the position will be able to make the decision (with the majority consent of the other members of the department).

2) Issue a bi-(weekly) report summarizing all polls in that period of time. This report would also contain polls that were closed and/or deleted.

3) To close outdated polls. The Chief would now close outdated polls or clear them out of the registry. Also, in a period of 15 days after a similar polls closing, a Citizen cannot create another poll of the same surface matter relating to the one that came before it.

4) The OPR MUST be advised beforehand on all changes to any law and SHOULD be consulted on poll laws, changes, and discussions.

5) Provide poll assistance for wording, or if the Citizen simply does not have the ability to post a poll.

6) The orgaization of political debates is key to gather opinions from the vast majority of the citizens and could be refered to as NCM's. This event would take place at the beginning of every month. All Citizens are suggested but not required to attend such meetings.

7) The OPR would be consulted and would advise on changes in poll laws, and standards.

Article 1.3
STRUCTURE OF OFFICE OF PUBLIC RELATIONS
Head Officer of Public Relations: (Popularly Elected)
Assitant Head Officer of Public Relations: (Secondary Candidate from election)
Director of Elections: Hired by Cabinet
Director of Polling: Hired by Cabinet
Director of Organization and Issuing: Hired by Head Officer
Political Debate Organizer: Hired by Director of Organization and Issuing

HEAD OFFICER OF PUBLIC RELATIONS (ELECTED):
1) Would oversee all OPR operations and give final input on all poll operations.

2) Has a vote on all matters concering the state and well being of Fanatikan security (in the council of presidential advisors).

ASSITANT HEAD OFFICER OF PUBLIC RELATIONS (ELECTED):
1) Assists the HEAD OFFICER on all duties listed above.

DIRECTOR OF ELECTIONS (HIRED BY CABINET):
1) Organizes and schedules all election polls, and Issues results for those closed.

DIRECTOR OF POLLING (HIRED BY CABINET):
1) Finalizes reports and summaries of reports including public opinion in replies to polls. (Also maintains a catalogue in a thread set aside for the purpose of final results of polls not more than 2 weeks old as well as current results of active polls with links to them for voting.)

DIRECTOR OF ORGANIZATION AND ISSUING (HIRED BY HEAD OFFICER):
1) Organizes all OPR operations and moderates employees.
2) Organizes ALL political operations, including elections and inagurations.

POLITICAL DEBATE ORGANIZER (HIRED BY DIRECTOR OF ORGANIZATION AND ISSUING):
1) Develops political debates.
2) Moderates all political debates.

REQUIRMENT FOR FILLING ALL POSITIONS: Must be impartial to any and all ethnic groups and political parties to ensure unbiased moderation.

Article 1.4
CHANGES TO EXISTING ORGANIZATIONS

1) The OPR would become somewhat of an official PSC (polling standards commision). The two organizations would work intimately together on all aspects of power allocated to the OPR. After a period of 3 months, a vote will be taken on weither or not to merge the two organizations. Until that times arises, the OPR MUST consult the PSC on all operations.

Article 1.5
POSITION IN GOVERNMENT

1) The OPR would have (departmental) status in the government. The OPR would be let in on ALL aspects of military functions because these actions threaten the lives of citizens under the consitituion of Fanakia.

2) Positions in the OPR would be (elected or) appointed as specified.

neutral leader is a good, responsible provincial governor

1) no department needed. (i hate to repeat myself). and office for working towards the existing department which handles those things would be sufficient and as such no big changes are needed
2) no direct closure. the judicacy has the word on closure, not someone else. poll closure is a bad thing which can only be done by the people whos job it is. and it is the job of the 3 judges.
3) why be so over-dosed? just make it clean and simple

I would like to submit this proposal to the Government of Fanatika
for the initiation of:

The Office of Public Relations

Primary goal of the Office:
To keep the opinion of the People of Fanatika in the limelight. In doing so, we hope to create a more coheasive relationship between the Government and the citizens of Fanatika. To bring this about the OPR would monitor, analyze, and report on the various polls and elections of the Demogame II Forums.

Primary Functions:
1. Work independently to identify invalid or inappropriate polls in a timely manner, and report such polls to the Judiciary Branch for further action.
2. Summarize all poll results (after the completion of the duration period) in the poll index and registry.
3. Notify Mods of expired polls so that they may be closed.
4. Initiate and organize discussion of poll rules and the standards.
5. Help citizens setup polls when help is requested.

Personnel:
1. Director of Public Relations - Would oversee all OPR operations and give final input on all poll operations.
2. Assistant Director - Assists the Director in all duties.
3. Poll Statistician/Analyst - Finalizes reports and summaries of reports including public opinion in replies to polls.
These three positions will be filled by citizens that do not currently hold any Government Office, and preferably without any political ties that would bias their analyzing ability.

The OPR would strive to work hand in hand with the Polling Standards Commission. If conflicts between the two entities were to arise, a solution would be publicly worked out in the forums or through the PM system and publicly posted afterwards. If no solution can be brought forward, the matter will go to the polls, with a poll being written by a senior member of the the Judicial Branch.

Preferably the OPR would be an Office of the Judicial Branch. Its member method of obtaining office (electec/appointed/approved),
the final description of duties and responsibilities, and the final "depth of authority" will be formalized in the forums and finalized by the end of the Month of September for implementation in Term 2.

EDIT: This blurb can be taken out. I had to write something. The other proposals seemed to weighty and involved and over-reaching the authority a proposal of this nature should try to secure. Please slash away...

The only thing missing there is a more detailed description of point 1 of the functions. It should be in there that found invalid etc. polls are noted to the judicacy thread for further action ;-)

With the rest i can comply (well, as we see no department is needed for that).

Bravo Cyc. Salutations.

Done. I figured that a more in depth description could be worked out later, as mentioned in the last paragraph (formalized and finalized).

Well, the question is if we really would need a more in depth description. It is "only" a office. If we get this office a constitutional rulebase, we should do this with the others also.

But what we should do is discuss how offices will work/function and how they are founded/deleted. Right now, any1 could found an office, even if it is not needed.

i oppose the tying of the public relations department to the judiciary. it would just create an unnecessary burden on the department and render it virtually impossible to close any threads. there is a natural safeguard in the fact that persons who were witness to the unjustified closing of a legitimate thread will raise an outcry and force an investigation.

neutral leader is a good, responsible provincial governor

it would not put any bruden on the judicacy, as the office would only report it to them. tying a office to a department only means that they are organizationally put beneath them. not that they do the work.

example:
chat office
the chat office is a office of the presidential office. nevertheless, it does not put any work on the president or the vice as the officers (falcon and me) work independantly. the tying to a department is only needed if officers need to be "trown out" for example.
cartographic office and census office
both are offices of the domestic department.

now the new pr-office (i really dont like that name. it does not fit the sense) will be an office of the judicacy. the judges will not have any work with it, on the contrary:
as the office serves as poll-question reference, they will take work away from the judges. any poll which will be reported to the judges would propably have been reported to them anyways sooner or later.

i dont mean unnecessary burden on the judiciary, i mean on the public relations department. it will create the unneeded inconvenience of having to report to the legal department, seek their approval, register requests...
all in all, i think they need to be able to work without judiciary supervision.

neutral leader is a good, responsible provincial governor

yes, but they do NOT have authority to close anything. never will they... we even had major discussion on the judges closing threads/polls...
the burden would only be to report them. nothing more. 1 post. the rest will be done by the judicacy itself (close request, review etc.).
the office will have to review all polls anyway, so why not report those?

im mean that the pr department should take over the reviews and closings of polls and threads from the judiciary and run the show themselves. thereby eliminating all influence of the justice department on the public relations crew.

neutral leader is a good, responsible provincial governor

i think we dont need yet another department, as this can easily be handled by the existing ones.
the offices are meant to work towards the departments. the proposals (at least most of them) in here all mean OFFICE and not department. departments just lead to more burocracy and a further split of power, especially because that department would combine executive and judical powers in one hand.

imho, this OFFICE should only be a administrative researching task.
why take the judges their word on the closure of polls? and why elect even more persons? we had problems settling all elected positions in the last game, so adding more of them will make that worse ;-)

NL, to give the PR office the power you speack of, it would have to be a department with formally elected leaders and then it gets REALLY messy. Keep it simple.


1c.2
I would like to submit this proposal to the Government of Fanatika
for the initiation of:

The Office of Public Relations
The OPR is an Office of the Judicial Branch. Its member method of obtaining office is by council appointment.

Primary goal of the Office:
To keep the opinion of the People of Fanatika in the limelight. In doing so, we hope to create a more coheasive relationship between the Government and the citizens of Fanatika. To bring this about the OPR would monitor, analyze, and report on the various polls and elections of the Demogame II Forums.

Primary Functions:
1. Work independently to identify invalid or inappropriate polls in a timely manner (in accordance with established law and precedent) and report such polls to the Judiciary Branch for further action.
2. Summarize all poll results (after the completion of the duration period) in the poll index and registry.
3. Notify Mods of expired polls so that they may be closed.
4. Initiate and organize discussion of poll rules and the standards.
5. Help citizens setup polls when help is requested.

Personnel:
1. Director of Public Relations - Would oversee all OPR operations and give final input on all poll operations.
2. Assistant Director - Assists the Director in all duties.
3. Poll Statistician/Analyst - Finalizes reports and summaries of reports including public opinion in replies to polls.

These three positions will be filled by citizens that do not currently hold any Government Office, and without any political ties that would bias their analyzing ability.

The OPR would strive to work hand in hand with the Polling Standards Commission. If conflicts between the two entities were to arise, a solution would be publicly worked out in the forums or through the PM system and publicly posted afterwards. If no solution can be brought forward, the matter will go to the polls, with a poll being written by a senior member of the the Judicial Branch.



If we could get this office working it would make life a whole lot easier and make polling far clearer. I think it would reduce everyone's workload and let people focus on their task. I still think this should be cut down a little, but only in wording not content.

* I think the polling standards commission paragraph can be ommitted, as it is clear. All offices must seek compromise with groups and the will of citizenry ;-)

* I really dont like the name... PR-Office sounds more like new-making than poll-checking to me

* Payment will be: director 20g/tc, rest 10g/tc

* Directors responsibility: Open an office thread in the appropriate subforum for discussions concerning the office work and enter this office thread into the office index.

I liked the name Public Relations and Polling Office (PRP) or even Polling Office better. I agree on the PSC, lets cut that paragraph. Yeah, actually, I agree with everything dis said :)

OK, I gotta ask, NL what's the deal with the 'good governor' thing? I don't mind what you say but, don't you think that you would be better off putting it in you signiture? Have you worked out a way to remove the signiture line or are you really committed to that message???

1c.3
I would like to submit this proposal to the Government of Fanatika
for the initiation of:

The Office of Public Relations
The OPR is an Office of the Judicial Branch. Its member method of obtaining office is by council appointment.

Primary goal of the Office:
To keep the opinion of the People of Fanatika in the limelight. In doing so, we hope to create a more coheasive relationship between the Government and the citizens of Fanatika. To bring this about the OPR would monitor, analyze, and report on the various polls and elections of the Demogame II Forums.

Primary Functions:
1. Work independently to identify invalid or inappropriate polls in a timely manner (in accordance with established law and precedent) and report such polls to the Judiciary Branch for further action.
2. Summarize all poll results (after the completion of the duration period) in the poll index and registry.
3. Notify Mods of expired polls so that they may be closed.
4. Initiate and organize discussion of poll rules and the standards.
5. Help citizens setup polls when help is requested.
6. Open an office thread in the appropriate subforum for discussions concerning the office work and enter this office thread into the office index.

Personnel:
1. Director of Public Relations - Would oversee all OPR operations and give final input on all poll operations.
2. Assistant Director - Assists the Director in all duties.
3. Poll Statistician/Analyst - Finalizes reports and summaries of reports including public opinion in replies to polls.

These three positions will be filled by citizens that do not currently hold any Government Office, and without any political ties that would bias their analyzing ability.



I don't think we can get it much shorter!!

Maybe we should directly state somewhere that the office is not closing polls itself, but only recommending closure to the appropriate departments. This will prevent some discussion about that from the beginning ;-)

But its ok i think... Any other comments from other people than AJ and me?

im just really commited to that message. this needs to be its own department otherwise it will be cluttered with needs to coordinate with several layers of superiors. oh, and dis, this department should be closing polls and threads itself, not bogging itself down with seeking judiciary approval for every little thing.

neutral leader is a good, responsible provincial governor

we have the judicacy for that... its their job. no need for a department. if you like to do that (build a new department) go to a poll before... but go to a poll with that question, not hiding this fact in a page of other things about that office/department.

i think new departments will enlarge our beurocraty, i would even vote for cutting the existing ones down by at least 2.

*Bump*
This is a really good idea. It has stalled a little but I think we should get around to proposing a poll soon.

I think it's ready for a poll now, AJ. Your last revision brought it in nice and tight.

if fact, we wouldnt even need a poll. we would just need the chief justice to DEFINE it as it is an office under his department ;-)
thats one of the advantages of offices against departments :-P

Quite right, dis. The office isn't being given any powers, it's simply an organizational structure of things any citizen may do.

Right Mr. Shaitan, the purpose is to give some citizens the responsibility over the job, so they really care to fullfill it.
Any citizen could do it, but if noone feels responsible for it noone will do it.

I'm going to ask for Justice Department feedback.

i think there should simply be a time expiration. Thats it. Very simple. Neutral Leader, it is unneccasary to make so many rules and offices. Simply get rid of polls after, say, a month. If there are offices that determine what polls are clutter and what polls aren't then that would give them too much power. That office could easily pull strings to get rid of polls that dont fit in with the chairmans personal agenda. All in all, i think this is not a good idea.

The Great Iguanaman

The office will have no power to do so , igu.
They just report to the judges, they decide about that (like now).
The summarization will be the main part of the job though.

already though the red tape regarding deletion of obsolete and irrelevant polls and threads has needlessly cluttered the forums and possibly distracted attention from the more critical issues under discussion because people are too busy wading through the unneeded material.

I agree with you entirely NL, so i dont know why im wasting my time with this post.

that was a quick turn around from your previous opinion iguanaman, was i really that eloquent?

so why do you two post in here if it is so useless?
you can easily see whether something is of interest for you by reading the discussion registry or not visiting "uninteresting" threads any more.
and dont assume that all what isnt interesting for you also isnt interesting for other people. your attitude is quiete ignorant as it seems, and if not please state so because then i missunderstood you 2 >-(

Ok, knock it off kiddies
I rpopose that we either put this to the judiciary or to a citizen poll first. Though it may not be technically nessisary, it would be nice to get citizen support.

I already asked for Judicial feedback and got no response. Try the citizens.

after 7 pages of discussion, no decision has been reached and what was once going to be a fine new department is rapidly having its power ebb away into a citizens group. in my opinion, this would be one of the first threads the pr department would close. its been fun, but i am disassociating myself from this proposal. go on without me.

Originally posted by neutral leader
after 7 pages of discussion, no decision has been reached and what was once going to be a fine new department is rapidly having its power ebb away into a citizens group. in my opinion, this would be one of the first threads the pr department would close. its been fun, but i am disassociating myself from this proposal. go on without me.

AJ posted a poll a little while ago...

The poll is here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32286).

Wow, sorry. I've been buried in work recently, and have meant to look at this seriously for a long time.

I think the basic fundamentals of this group of ok. All I've looked at was that poll.

First, all decisions made to close polls should be approved by at least one member of the judiciary (it doesn't matter who).

Also, I would like the judiciay to have the power to appoint and throw out the holders of the three offices. To appoint of fire someone, a poll of the citizens would have to be held, with a quroum equal to half the active quroum (so the appoints/firings made be made quickly).

With those changes, I will approve of this office.

Having been asked by the Chief Justice, and in accordance with the duties of the Justice Department as outlined in the CoL, here is my opinion on the potential for the Public Relations Department, as defined in the description in the following poll, to conflict with the Constitution, CoL or CoS:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32286

I find that the proposed department does not conflict, but in fact, supports the letter and spirit of the exisiting laws.

I also suggest that the sponsors of the PRD create a new, binding poll so that we can get a quorum on this and have it implemented sometime before the next term.

@Danke - A poll isn't necessary as it's an office created by a Department. Hound your boss to set it up and get it going.

I would be glad to set it up. I will post a thread looking for applications.

Woo hoo! Almightjosh would give you a virtual high five if he were here. :)

I feel that this couls be similar to a citizens groop and not need to have any elected officials (altough could have if you realy want them). I am comparing this to groups like the history department which should actualy cover all of this - I don't know I am to busy to look :lol: