This a preview of the Arda Mod,

It was first sent to me by Sifaus - Nov 26, 2007. He told me not to give it out, but I believe this to be an exception.

Since it's starting to look like this Mod will fall into deep decline. This will be a final attempt to bring this Mod back into production.

Please, test this preview out. If you can help with many of the bugs/errors found, or just with the Mod in general - message Me, Elda King (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?u=92655), thomas.berubeg (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?u=98543) or Sifaus (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?u=112112)

Or alternatively;

Add us on Msn -

Sifaus: siffer_y@hotmail.com

Elda King: joaofcv300391@hotmail.com

Link to Arda Mod Preview:
http://files.filefront.com/ArdaModPreviewrar/;9113937;/fileinfo.html

Hoping for the best -

NM.

Feed back most welcome -

This is very very old preview and it wasn't working that i last try, but i'll try now again, with my new computer.

If it going to work, i'll start to add civs one by one.

Edit; Thanks for reminding this :)

ill try this and post for the recommendations i have if i have any

Unfortunately it did not even load whatsoever. it had an error when it was loading the mod. It is for Civ4 Right?

I'm getting an error message too.

Yeah,

Try just clicking all the errors - they go away eventually. I just held onto "Enter" and it went through all the errors and eventually the Mod loaded.

No, I don't mean an XML error message. I mean a "this program has encountered a problem and needs to close" message. The kind you can't just click your way through.

Hi, your mod is a great idea and i can offer you some modding help if you want i just can do xml changes and mapping, but i would you help so often i have time for it if you want. I also have found some new unit Graphics you could use.

Yeah it said the same error for me too it said it needed to close.

does it just do that for Vistas maybe?:confused:

No, my old computer was xp and new one is vista. Preview not working on both of them. :(

odd idk wat its here for then.

I'll have a little look tonight and see if I can get it to load. I'd be willing to join the team in any case. I can edit xml files, python and possibly/probably C++, though C++ will be slow going as I'm not that comfortable with it, but if necessary it can be done.

Couple of questions:
- I've read that the plan is to use FFH2 > are you planning to take that as base or are you thinking about canabalising only the parts you need (don't know which option is most feasible, but I usually prefer the minimize the bloat if at all possible).
- How far are you with a feature list? Do you know what's going to be in and what not (could find such a list on the forum here). I find it works easiest to first make a list of ideas you want in, and then start looking how to implement these, as a lot of things will be intertwined.
- Who is currently working on the project (and how much time are people able to devote to this? I'd like to have some kind of indication about how much teamwork this will be, as I'm fairly capable of scripting and programming, but my Tolkien-memory has been fading for a while).
- Is there a project-page somewhere (sourceforge, launchpad, etc.) or is someone keeping all the files together? A project-page is a lot easier because you'll never have to wait for someone to reply and everybody can view and comment on the changes you've made.
- I thought I had another question but obviously I've forgotten it.

As for myself, I think I should be able to spent at least one night a week on this (programming/scripting that is, not including actually reading this forum). For the coming week I think I've already got myself a nice todo-list:
- Play some FFH2 games to familiarise myself with the gameplay elements that are going to be used/ripped.
- check out the preview
- see if it's possible to work on the sdk on my linux-box as I'd prefer not to do any programming on the laptop.... might just have to write the damn stuff on one comp and compile on the other.
- and I've forgotten something again... I think....

I've taken a look at the preview and the problem lies with two files:
Assets/xml/Art/CIV4ArtDefines_Unit.xml
Assets/xml/Units/CIV4UnitInfos.xml

Taking these two files out will at least make you able to load the mod (after holding the enter key for about twenty seconds), but doesn't really solve anything, since there will be multiple paths to CTD when you have the mod loaded:
- Clicking on the other Dunlending leader (Saruman?) will crash the game immediately (if you use the play now option)
- Starting the game with another leader will lead to CTD upon initialising the game. If you are quick (or your comp slow) you can see some notification about problems with the leader before the CTD occurs

At the moment I'm quite convinced that this is not a good starting point and that the xml files should be done again. But first it would be nice to hear some ideas about what this mod should like in the end, because I've been unable to find anything resembling a featurelist in this forum.


Sengir


Oh, and I finally know what I've forgotten to add to my todo list:
- Reread the silmarillion :D

So...

IIRC, the biggest problem we had with the old version (Vanilla) was mostly in the diplomacyinfo file, which is hell to go through...

I'de recommend, if your going with BTS, to completely restart, and only reuse the art assets.

-thomas

edit: unit art doesn't work? Hm...

The art files are probably fine, but the xml file causes a CTD. I'm going to try and salvage what files I can from the preview, see whether I can recreate the corrupt ones and get a working preview up and running. At least that's the plan until someone comes up with a better idea. (I really need to refresh my memory on the First Age to be able to come up with ideas content-wise, so before I'm done rereading I'm going to restrict myself to scripting/programming)

Are you planning on using BTS? If so, use FFH as a base, and trim away what you don't need, rather than trying to put random features in. It'll be easier that way.

Yeah, I think that's the way to go, but I'll have to look at the code of both clean BtS and FFH before deciding on that. Would depend on the wanted features as well I suppose.

So here's the complete list of problematic files, remove them if you want to load the preview, though it won't amount to much without them.

Assets/xml/Art/CIV4ArtDefines_Unit.xml
Assets/xml/Art/CIV4ArtDefines_Civilization.xml
Assets/xml/Civilizations/CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml
Assets/xml/Civilizations/CIV4CivilizationsSchema.xml
Assets/xml/Civilizations/CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml
Assets/xml/Civilizations/CIV4UnitArtStyleTypesInfos.xml
Assets/xml/Misc/CIV4RouteInfos.xml
Assets/xml/Units/CIV4UnitInfos.xml

Oh, and apparantly the interface won't work with the mod, but at least you can check the civilopedia (F12) and Tech tree (F6) to see what's changed.

Perhaps you should start smaller if there is a lot of problems happening. Get a working BTS version going without the FFH base. Don't use the magic system, just civs and an Arda map. Put in some new or changed techs (not going beyond gunpowder, etc.) and unique civs, units etc.

After that has been mastered, then start trying to up the ante. Perhaps the aim is too high to begin with. This will also refresh the enthusiasm of the people waiting for this to come out.

Just a suggestion and not a criticism here. I hope you don't take this the wrong way. I am one of the ones really looking forward to this. Being able to play it with and without the FFH base is fine with me.

Unfortunately I have absoluting no Modding or programming experience, so I don't think I can help in that way. Info and Ideas are my main forte. I was involved near the beginning with suggestions and ideas if anyone remembers me. It has been a while as I was without computer access for quite some time. I am glad to be back however.

Thanks a lot for your suggestion. I'm not going to take it the wrong way, as I've been thinking a long the same lines. So far I've come up with a couple of pros and cons regarding FFH as base.
Pro:
- has a lot of features on top of BtS that would work well with a mod for Middle Earth

Con:
- has features that won't be used and would probably need to be stripped, increasing bug chances
- I'm not familiar with it, so I would either have to play it first or be guessing how everything is supposed to work. The first would delay the starting of the project, the second again add to bugproblems.
- A lot of features that could be implemented via FFH won't be that hard to do by simply modding BtS
- Most features that would be added through FFH are/were in a maybe state.

As you can see, there are more cons than pros and I hadn't even thought about the fact that getting something released will increase the chance of getting more people to work on this.

So I'm going to bite the bullet here and go with BtS as base, not FFH, so that I can start working on it now (well, this evening really) as opposed to when I'm familiar with FFH. It will also hopefully be easier to attract new modders if they don't have to familiarize themselves with FFH before they can get started.


Unfortunately I have absoluting no Modding or programming experience, so I don't think I can help in that way. Info and Ideas are my main forte. I was involved near the beginning with suggestions and ideas if anyone remembers me. It has been a while as I was without computer access for quite some time. I am glad to be back however.

Well, if all else fails, I'd be able to change the xml/python/sdk all by myself, though it might take a while. But what would be necessary to bring this mod back to live, are ideas about what should be in and out, how things should be done, etc., because I can't think of everything myself. So your Info and Ideas would be more than welcome (your Info will probably be transformed into Civilopedia entries :D )

Tonight I'm going to make a list of things that I think should be done for the first release of this mod and try to make some headway with it, so that I can have a bit of a feel for the timeframe I'll be working with.

I've started on the featurelist:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7798658

I'm glad someone will pick the mod up! I really wish you good luck, and will give you all the support I can (unfortunately, not much right now...).

As I have told on another topic, my PC is broken - so, until it's fixed, I'm without Civ 4 and without any of my files. There were older versions of the mod, some info (including quotes from the books for every tech, the image of the full tech tree, etc), and some 2d art... Thought I can look at the forum ocasionally, I can't mod for now (and 2 weeks from now I'll start college and perhaps work, so I likely won't have plenty of time until July). Anyway, when I get my pc back you may count on my occasional help and feedback...

If you overcame one of our CTD you're a much better modder than I am (we had plenty of them, and allways had to start over). I didn't even knew where to look for them... Anyway, if you have any tech file, I may assure you it's working; it was the only file edited by one person only, and I tested it separated from all the rest to make sure it was fine.

About making the mod from FFH2, it was a recent idea. We didn't actually discussed it deeply, and don't know what we would take and what wouldn't fit. I think it's great, it has many mechanics we could use: heroes, unique resources, world "spells" for civs, etc, etc, etc.

Thanks for your reaction. I kinda got swamped in work the moment I wanted to start, but I should have a couple of spare hours coming weekend to mod a bit and see if I can get anything done.

Hi, I really like the ideas. I started playing FFH2 a couple of months ago and I really got into the fantasy theme :). Now LOTR would be even better. I did some modding myself, mostly for myself and I have to finish still a religion mod for BtS but if you want I can give you a hand and together we can try to put this mod back on the map. PM me if you're interested. Are you planning to use FFH2 as a base? I think that would be the best idea.

Small update on FFH2 as base: it has a lot of fantasy features we really would want to use in LOTR. I think it would be quite okay to use this as a base and familiarize during working on it. It is not that different. Starting with changing the civs is the best way to start anyway. We have to come up with some structure to make it because doing everything at the same time won't work. The features for FFH2 are also quite well documented on their part of the forum so that should help.

EDIT: another thing that is nice is the fact that races exist in FFH2. We could use the same promotions there and you can set the race promotion per civilization (elf civs would get the elves promotion for every unit they produce).

Another update: I think to limit the amount of work to start with and just get this up and running we need to limit the starting ambitions. I really would like to start on this, but I think it is wise to wait for a respons here from the people who reinitiated this thread in the last couple of days. A good list of civs to start with would be three of each race:

Elves

Noldor
Teleri
Sindar

Good Men

Rohirrim
Numenorean
Edain (beren, beorl, etc)

Evil Men

Haradrim
Easterling
Dunlending (men of saruman, evil men in the western part of middle earth)

Shadow

Mordor
Angmar
Angband??
Isengard??

Dwarves

Longbeard (Durin)
Firebeard??
Ironfists??

Take a look at the feature list thread. It is new and some discussions were had there. Apparently Sengir is quite busy at the moment. He is also the only modder curretnly working on this at the moment I believe. I'm just the idea man.

Yeah I saw that. I just thought it was the previous list. I'll post this suggestion there as well. Do you know if he actually started it, because otherwise I will start it. I really think FFH2 is the best base and will give us the best results in the end. I think I know enough about it to be able to use FFH2 as a base. I really would like to stress the point of using this as a base because it will make our lives a lot easier. Also I like to say I would like to help with the coding. I know enough to be able to do some of the stuff.

Busy yes, without a working laptop-battery as well :(. Anyway, tt has been replaced and my other projects should leave me with a fair amount of spare time the coming days, so I can continue working on the mod. I'm still not sure on using FFH as a base, but maybe I should just play a game in the mod to make up my mind. It all depends on what we want to have in the mod, not only what we want in for now, but how people think the ideal Arda-mod would look like (hey, we gotta have some goal don't we). The fact that FFH includes it doesn't mean however that it is necessary to use FFH as base (though it something to consider). Another point is how many features won't be used and have to be stripped away, which can range from easy to impossible, depending on how integrated it is with the rest of FFH.

I would like to make clear that I'm not opposed to FFH as a base, but I'll have to see it for myself first (will try to play a game tonight).


Also, Berenthor: Welcome to the team :goodjob:

To address some of your points on FFH2:

Hero system is in there
Equipment is there
The armagedon counter is great and we could use as influence of the shadow
Features like building improvements in forest (without chopping) is there, great for elf races
New features are mostly xml tags which give us the option of using them but is not neccessary
Because FFH2 is fantasy, we can mod in an iterative way: first the civs with standard elf, dwarf, etc citysets and unitart. This will make development time a lot shorter and easier while keeping the flexebility
Disabling options is possible
A system for spells is there. This allows us to easily use it for for example "fear" for the nazgul or magic for elves etc.
The improvements are well documented


I agree that you should first take a look at it yourself to see what you think. I personnally think it will save us a lot of headache and redoing stuff that has been done. I do however recommend choosing as fast as possible because due to the extra xml techs, going from BtS standard to FFH2 is not as easy. However if we do it now immediatly, only the tech tree has to be redone or at least porting which is quite doable I think (tech tree only has 1 extra xml tag so that should be very easy (search replace :)).

Another small question: who is involved now in this mod and what would be the best way to communicate more effectively than here?

Here is the link to the modders guide:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=238077

Some thoughts:

The armagedon counter is great and we could use as influence of the shadow

Can the counter go down as well? That would be a very nice thing to have.


New features are mostly xml tags which give us the option of using them but is not neccessary
Disabling options is possible
The improvements are well documented

This really important, as it really minimizes the risk of bugs.

As for picking BtS or FFH: Yes that choice should be made as soon as possible, no need in trying to convert halfway. (That's why I mentioned not only considering features we want now, but also features we might want later).


Another small question: who is involved now in this mod and what would be the best way to communicate more effectively than here?
I can see whether I can dig up my old msn-account, don't know if it still works. I've got skype as well, or could whip up some chatpogram on a server somewhere. Realtime communication is really nice, but is only usefull if the people involved can be online at the same time, so anybody still involved in this mod, please raise your hand and tell us what timezone you live in. I'm in GMT+1 (the Netherlands for those interested.)



Also about the link you posted: that's seriously nice of them.

Raise hand :). I'm also in GMT+1 (Netherlands) so that's easy.

The counter can go down as well. Certain events/actions raise it, others lower it. These can as far as I can determine be set. Yeah I also have to see if my msn or gmail account is still working(I think gtalk also works but I don't know). Skype I can also make an account if neccessary. I was also very positively surprised about the documentation, it is really helpfull.

Yeah, I noticed that.

I'm going to start FFH in about a minute or so (once it has finished installing), so we'll know soon enough whether I like it or not :p

I would agree that using FFH as a base would indeed save a lot of time. Considering how rare magic actually is in LOTR it would need to be modified quite a bit to suite the theme.

At the moment Berenthor, there seems to be Sengir, Sifaus, you and myself. Only two or three of these people actually know how to mod however :( (I cannot). If Elda and/or thomas become available I am sure they would at least advise.

I've managed to play 1 hour, before the laptop decided to quit (overheating problem). I've read the civilopedia entries for what's new in FFH and must say I'm impressed with it. Still no clue as to how things actually work in play :( I hope I'll be able to play on the other comp in the next couple of days (my wife needs it today to finalize some stuff for upcoming exams), so that I can comment a bit more about FFH.

In addition to what Berenthor mentioned, Every plot In FFH has a "plot counter" which is variable, and which is used to determine what stage the terrain is (normal or Hell)
This, also, could be used to represent the influence of the shadow over the terrain itself...

I read about the hell terrain in the civilopedia. I was wondering whether it was possible to transform it back (which would require serious effort) but if it's a counter, then it should not be too hard to do.

Yes. The in game spell is sanctify.

In addition to what Berenthor mentioned, Every plot In FFH has a "plot counter" which is variable, and which is used to determine what stage the terrain is (normal or Hell)
This, also, could be used to represent the influence of the shadow over the terrain itself...

I didn't know that, that's great. Combined with the armagedon counter, this could really work out well. I know how to mod (haven't done SDK yet, but I know how to program so that shouldn't be a problem) so that should give us a third person. If we are going to tackle this problem we should come up with a not to extensive list of things we want for a first version. Maybe only a shorter list of civs (hence my smaller list I posted earlier) using the standard unit and city sets of FFH2 and maybe one UU and UB. We should try to do this in small iterations and not all at once, otherwise you keep refining before even a first version comes out.

As for the magic: I think the system can be used to represent certain things (fear the nazgul spread, maybe some elven magic, maybe some heroes). Spells as they are in FFH2 don't only represent magic but also for example encouragement by powerfull leaders or those kind of thinks. Personnally I feel the system is still very usefull, even without having buildable mages. Also the world spells are a very cool concept that we might be able to use (or disregard in the first stage, just to get it running. It can be disabled by not assigning a world spell to a civ). Just my 2 cents. I really feel anxious to start now... :crazyeye:

Yes. The in game spell is sanctify.

Here is my idea; "Ash Terrain" spread via culture of "Shadow". But it is harder to get back real terrain, a little change to changing via other civs culture, but, there is another way. For a 3x3 terrain, a spell of workers that will take 10 turns to cast. And there is a little (%10 maybe) change to a "new forest".

I dont know if can be implementable :)

While I agree with you on starting with a smaller civ list, I would like to have a longer list for the ones we want to have eventually, so that we won't have to come back and edit the civs from the short list to make sure the civs don't overlap to much (Extreme example: Civ Elves on short list, Civs Noldor, Teleri, Sindar, etc. on long list > would mean rework Elves to Noldor and add the others. Better to just have Noldor on the shortlist instead of elves). So my proposal is to make a long list first, then pick a couple of civs from that list for the first version. I agree with keeping the number of UU's low, maybe even no UU's except for the shadow.

The magic system (I've only read about it, no experience) would have to be altered somewhat because I don't like the idea of mana nodes in Middle-Earth. But as it is possible to tie the nodes to a palace or (national) wonder, it should be possible to simply rename them and reduce the nodes available on the map. The spells themselves (I've only read a few) look like they can be adapted to a lot of things.

Spells can be different from ffh, only can isitari cast "real" spells and some of ring bearers... There is no need ffh's mana system, they can be basic "promotions" without nodes and mana :)

Here is my idea; "Ash Terrain" spread via culture of "Shadow". But it is harder to get back real terrain, a little change to changing via other civs culture, but, there is another way. For a 3x3 terrain, a spell of workers that will take 10 turns to cast. And there is a little (%10 maybe) change to a "new forest".

I dont know if can be implementable :)

As far as I understand the spreading of Hell/Ash terrain via culture of the Shadow is easy with FFH (it's what happens until armageddon counter reaches 25, afterwards it's also in neutral territory).

As for the rest, that should be possible, as there allready is a spell that does change it back apparently, so that could be altered, and the small chance of changing back (not sure whether I agree with you on that, I think it should require some effort to get rid of it), can probably be done with events. (or whatever function is used to turn it into hellterrain in the first place)

Spells can be different from ffh, only can isitari cast "real" spells and some of ring bearers... There is no need ffh's mana system, they can be basic "promotions" without nodes and mana :)

Ah, of course. Didn't make the connection that they were based on promotions. That makes things a lot easier (I think/hope)

As far as I understand the spreading of Hell/Ash terrain via culture of the Shadow is easy with FFH (it's what happens until armageddon counter reaches 25, afterwards it's also in neutral territory).

As for the rest, that should be possible, as there allready is a spell that does change it back apparently, so that could be altered, and the small chance of changing back (not sure whether I agree with you on that, I think it should require some effort to get rid of it), can probably be done with events. (or whatever function is used to turn it into hellterrain in the first place)

I think it musnt be a "adept" spell, it must be worker action (or worker spell :p ). By the way, will be any mage buildings, mages ect..? I think it will be so un-Middle Earthish :p

Sorry for bad english :(

Worker spell sounds good. And mage buildings and mages will be dropped. (I think I can safely say that :D)

Worker spell sounds good. And mage buildings and mages will be dropped. (I think I can safely say that :D)

:banana::banana:

Mana nodes should in total be dropped I think, and maybe even the some of the different kinds of magic (although this can be used to differentiate several kinds of magic: istari, elven, shadow, valar, etc). I agree that mages and mage buildings should be completely removed. Maybe some hero units with magic like the istari (but not normal units) and some other special units. The system of divine magic could partially be kept (inquisition is currently a spell) and the divine magic users are the only units in game with healing promotions (is not a normal promotion). This I think could partially be kept, although I'm not completely sure how to structure the religions either to be honest. Hell/Ash terrain sounds okay although I think we should see if we can change the graphics. The flames on the terrain should go, since it doesn't really fit. The ash terrain would be great (especially for mordor, angband, angmar). I totally agree about the civ list. We should have that complete and than pick some.

I managed to play FFH a bit today and must say it would be pretty stupid not to use as a base. A lot of things tailor nicely to things we want and everytime I saw an event, I thought, yeah, I could see how we could use that. Only problem of FFH is that the techtree is so wide, I had no idea where to start. Also: those civs are pretty agressive, I got two DoW before turn 100, and even lost 2 cities (before I took them back and wiped the offenders of the face of the earth).

All in all, I think FFH should be the base and I should make notes next time I play, as I can't remember everything (do remember a Dragon showing up: that's going to make a nice little Smaug :D)

Hahaha Smaug was also the first thing I thought about :). It is an event but it only happens when the barbarians "build" it. It is a world unit only buildable by the barbarians. I especially like the fact that you receive a "wonder" if you defeat him (acherons hoard I think or something like that). May I ask what level you played on (and what you play normally?) because I didn't have that much trouble. Also what civ did you play? I agree, the TT is very extensive, but set up in a very different way from normal (economic things up top, magic at the bottom, etc.). Takes some getting used to. I'm glad we can agree on using this as a base :).

I played on Noble, normally Prince/Monarch. Losing the cities was caused by me messing up any resemblance of a tech path. I had only been able to build horsemen for three turns when they attacked my poor two bloodpets per city with stacks of five. They never threatened my capital however, which was happily building horseman after horseman to make sure I got back what was rightfully mine (namely: everything they had).

Hahaha sounds like a good game. I first read the manual with its tips so I actually knew a little what to expect. You played the Calabim right (vampires)? They are pretty cool, especially when you have vampires who can suck a city dry to gain XP. If you have complete farming cities you produce back very fast the population you feast upon :)

I don't like the idea of Armageddon counter in Arda Mod, because in it the evil is embodied in a single civ (or two, whatever). In all ages, the Shadow grew too powerful to be faced by any people in ME; in the first, they had to call the Valar, in the Second they had to cut the ring off, and in the third they had to destroy the ring. However, it was because the military power of that civ was overwhelming! It would be lame to have a very high armageddon counter if the Shadow was a poor, weak civ.
The original idea was to make The Shadow a very powerful civ in raw military (thought not unbeatable), but weak in other aspects (culture, growth). If it grew too powerful to be defeated by force of arms, well, look for another victory condition or a worldwide military alliance.

The point of the armageddon counter wasn't the counter itself, but to show the working of hell terrain. I agree that the count isn't necessary in Arda, or even appropriate.

You can have hell (or rather Mordor) terrain without having it spread everywhere. I do think you'll need some sort of hellish terrain for north-western Mordor though (but don't forget the rest of it was fairly usable).

The Terrain should perhaps only spread with the Shadow's Cultural borders. That would probably be easiest. Then perhaps a 1 point decrease in plot grade 1 plot outside of the Border (if that is possible).

I think currently in FFH2 hell terrain spreads only in evil borders during low armageddon counter and when the counter goes up, starts to spread through neutral lands. It never enters good lands I think. But maybe we can limit it to only the shadows own borders, we would have to check.

Just limit it to Shadow definitely. Maybe make some sorta Projects or special events that allow it to spread outside to a specific area (like Brown Lands) or add a lot all at once (like Anfauglith).

That's a good idea T_F. Limit it to the Shadow lands, except for certain specific cases. Would be good ideas for Shadow projects or events (though the events would be rare, limited to one tile and need a hell/ash-terrain adjacent, kind of like a forestspread).