Hello Everybody,

Kinboat’s recent sabbatical from unit creation got me to thinking. Why are all the Unit Creators working separately? Wouldn’t it be easier if the animators worked together?

I suggested to Kinboat that he continue to produce models and allow others to animate them using there own 3D programs. This seems like a brilliant idea to me. :) We can’t all hope to model as well as others and the animation process seems to slow down the modelers. If somehow we could split up these tasks I think we could prevent burnout and thereby continue to see great units produced for the game at an even faster rate than we already are.

Of course a concern of the modeler is that his or her work will not be animated to his or her exacting standards and will end up not looking as well as hoped. This could be remedied by a basic understanding between the modeler and the animator that nothing will be released until the modeler gives his or her consent. I suggest also that the modeler only post a preview of the model and extend an invitation to prospective animators to contact the modeler to request permission to animate the model. This will give the modeler greater control over who has access to the model. Hopefully this system will eventually lead to solid modeler/animator teams.

I also think that it is silly that the artists are continuously required to reinvent the wheel. Why not have some basic human models available for any animator to use? This will ensure that proper proportions are used for all the human units and will establish a standard size for all future units. Granted I have never used a 3D program so I don’t know if this is possible, but my understanding is that one can import a model and work from that.

The second part of my proposal is that the CFC Community 3D artists post base models for other aspiring unit creators in the community to use as templates for their work. I envision three basic body types for male units and corresponding body types for female units. There are also fantasy units to consider so there may need to be base models for dwarfs and elves and other such creatures.

As well as standardized base figures, it would be great to have standardized motion as well. A lot of unit creators say that it's difficult to get human motion done properly. If example were posted of the motion of humans, horses, tanks, etc. this would certainly make things easier.

In summary:
1) Develop Unit Modeler/Animator teams
2) Post base models for others to use as templates for future work
3) Post example previews of correct bodies in motion

It’s just a thought, but I hope some of the Community artists will see the merit in these proposals.

just thought I'd add my two pence - you needn't post only 3DS or Moray models either. Creating the model in these programs, but saving as images for the cut 'n' pasters would also be great.

I have considered a paper doll project, you know, a male form, a female form, then various helmets, armor, shields, and weapons. All this would require would be essentially a unique attack animation, since various weapons are used differently.

As far as the 3d modeling goes, The way I do it, I must have the actual 3d model file to animate, so I gues I could post my models in the rhinoceros format for others to animate...... but.... creating the model is very, very, very fun. It's the animating that is the tedious tribulation of toil and travail. And believe me, anybody, if they have the patience to learn Rhinoceros (3hours, maybe 6 if you're slow) will not really need the artistic talent, since it's basically like making your own lego pieces then putting them together.

Creating unique shapes is a little difficult, and I know I can draw it out if I figured out how, (I see thetools available in the toolbar, I can't just figure out how) but in the mean time, I use boolean diffence to create odd geometric shapes... however curved geometric shapes are quite easy.

Sounds like a great idea for two reasons:

1) Units will be produced much faster and be available for download before civ 4 is released.

2) I saw the words "drawfs" and "elves" above. You should add goblins, merfolk, faeries, birds, minotaurs, . . . . :)

I am really thinking about getting into unit creation as I need about 250 (i toned it down a bit) units created before civ 4 is released, and no-one wants do them. If all I had to do was half the work, and then someone else did the other half, it would make it much easier.

GIDustin

BTW, anyone know where can I find a tutorial on how to make 3D animated units, and the program(s) that accompany them?

I just find this idea great !

I'm a huge civfanatic, and I go on playing, even when I spend 45mn/AI turn (on a XP 2100+, 512DDR ! that's making me crazy !), and I tryed several times to create units, unsuccessfully.

So I made my mind into learning a bit of 3D modeling.
And YES, what is really missing is some template ressources, where we could find standard human modeling, guns and so on.

Maybe there's a website, but I don't know it.

So If we could find a place to :

1) Find these examples in standard 3D file formats
2) Ask creation question about using these programs to the right people (for example :"How can I make a realistic camo or explosion ??")

...it woul dbe MUCH easier to beginners to make their gift to the civ community.

Originally posted by GIDustin
Sounds like a great idea for two reasons:

That's not already in the works is it???

Anyways yea sounds like a good idea also it would be nice to know what everyone uses also especially SM if we could get him to tell, what i use is milkshape3d i just told everyone about it in another thread but i thought i'd say that for those who didn't see that thread

I am proposing that this thread be turned into the 3D Model & Motion Templates thread

So if you have anything to add in the way of base models or anything else useful for the artists out there, add it here.

The 3D models may not work varry well, as we all have diferent programs and most of them are not compatible.

I like the idea of the Motion Templates, I can make blank units and animate them and then others can paint or cut and pase on to them.

Well this would maybe work, but there seem to be some trouble bribing soemone to do the animations, since its the hard part.
I´ve made some 3D models on tanks but I dont have no idea how to animate them. So instead of being pushed to learn another prg, it would be great if someone continue the work. In that way you can spend more time with the modelling and make them even better.
But as they all say, its the modelling that is fun.

Originally posted by OmniMower
But as they all say, its the modelling that is fun. I'm not a very experienced modeller, nor am I very experienced with animating, but if given a choice between the two, I'd take animation any day. I doubt I am the only one in the world who feels like this (and if I am, I guess I'm gonna be busy soon ;) )

Yes, you are going to be VERY busy! I will give u a bunch of units anytime!!! Are you up to it?

/OmniMower

Yes!

..but with my current workload, I wouldn't be able to animate so much as an eyebrow for at least a month - so I wouldn't be a good horse to bet on :)

But upload them anyway once you're done with them - I am quite confident I'm not the only one here who loves animating (and quite a lot of the other ones, would most likely also be much better than me :D )

Originally posted by Level
The 3D models may not work varry well, as we all have diferent programs and most of them are not compatible.

I like the idea of the Motion Templates, I can make blank units and animate them and then others can paint or cut and pase on to them. This shouldn't be a problem as most 3D programs can save in .3DS or something like that. And that is a Universal file format, which can be opened in most 3D programs, if not all.

The file format might be called something different, though. Will look it up.
EDIT: Yes, .3DS is a file format which you can "export" and "import" in 3D Studio Max. The format is called 3D Studio, and it's the Mesh. Although I'm starting to think that's it not that universal. Although there are more formats you can export the file to. And I think threre are plugins out there for almost anything. Anyway, one of the other file formats you can export to is .ASC which a ASCII file of a static mesh object. It contains the vertex coordinates, and this seems like a file format that can be used in other programs. (Imported) Another format is .ASE, which means ASCII Scene Export, and contains the entire animation if you have one.

Hope this helps.

Anyway, I think it's a great Idea!

I will produce much more stuff if someone could help me with the animation or something else.

Be warned people, you might just have created a 3D model factory here! (most possible not though ;))

Originally posted by Grey Fox
This shouldn't be a problem as most 3D programs can save in .3DS or something like that. And that is a Universal file format, which can be opened in most 3D programs, if not all.


I use I 3D prg that doesnt export into 3DS format, but are well compability with, say 3D Studio Max, so I dont think that the format of the saved file should be any problem....

Originally posted by OmniMower



I use I 3D prg that doesnt export into 3DS format, but are well compability with, say 3D Studio Max, so I dont think that the format of the saved file should be any problem.... I just updated my post.

Originally posted by Incubus0223


That's not already in the works is it???



What? The MTG Mod? Of course it is in the works, almost 25% done too. Or were you talkaing about something else?

GIDustin

Originally posted by Grey Fox
I just updated my post.

Saw that...great...ok!

more space saving for CFC

gonna save cfc some space :)

That would look incredible in my future scenario ;)

I believe 3dsmax would be the way to go, as for its used mostly for games, and its easyto get nice stuff done, for a respectable time frame, also depanding if your looking at ral, or toon shaded, it works too.

I would be willing to giveit a try for animating. im not super but im good enough


if ppl wonder...
they can always checkout my web site to see my stuff

http://members.tripod.com/lt_tarantulas/


Just need a list of what animaton to include, and an idea whats needed... so the modeler and animator (if different person)
can communicate good, sot he end product pleases everyone.



as for 'template' some does exist on free 3d site.. like 3dcafe.com you got loootsa places, trucks, cars, jets, boats.

but some will needto be made from, scratch.

Impressive Lt_Tarantulas,
are they made in 3D Studio Max???

yup, all my stuff is made in 3dsmax

Can you put textures and surfaces on models that are complete in CAD (.igs, .stl formats) . Cause that would be great!

And if you don't want to pay through the nose to get 3D Studio Max, there is the free alternative, not quite as good I am sure, but its free.

Discreet Products Gmax (http://www.discreet.com/products/gmax)

hmm
should...CAD is made by Autodesk.. which brought Disccreet, max maker... i beleive we can import those. not sure about export.
Would need to check



and yup...gmax might work.. i have no mess with it tho..so cant say anything define

Originally posted by OmniMower
Can you put textures and surfaces on models that are complete in CAD (.igs, .stl formats) . Cause that would be great! Yes, I believe that max can import CAD models.

Yes they can, but since I will concentrate on the actual modelbuilding I was hoping to find someone enjoying putting Textures and Materials on them.....

here..

just attached a screenshot, from max help file, bout autocad importing

it works

whats listed there is imported, whats not lsited, isnt tho.


Omini

I can do that. :)
let try on a sample... if u like the results, we can always do more work.

Lt_Tarantula,
Would you be interested in playing around with one of my 3D tank models and see that you come up with?

/OmniMower

Omni: Sure :)

Lt_Tarantula,
FANTASTIC! mmm.... do you got MSN or ICQ so I can send you a file???

I got icq, my number is 41766605

Omni, I could texture something in the Future aswell. I need to get better at it.

I'm learning Maya now (pre learning, cus we have courses in 3D, and have a new teacher who only uses Maya... so I got Maya from school, and now I'm doing 1 lesson a day from books.)

But I know how to create UVW maps in 3DStudio Max, and I'm pretty good with PhotoShop 7.0.

And helping you would be excellent practice on texturing for me. If I get the time ;)

Thanx for your offer!!! It would be great if you could assist me in the creations!
Just tell me when u got time and Ills send you a model you can work on!
Thanx Mate...:goodjob:
/OmniMower

This does sound like a good idea :) And I thought I'd throw my hat into the ring... Using Poser 4 and Moray I'm currently working on a human model... I plan on making a default/run/death and maybe several versions of attack... It will be a naked model that others can use to cut and paste different heads etc. I also plan on making 3 or four versions... A man/woman/musclular man/and maybe a muscular woman... I could also shrink the model for use in Fantasy mods as Goblins etc. I'm just starting out but it looks to me that I can do it with relative ease (much easier now that I have Poser :) )... I thought I'd have a sword swing/stab and a spear thrust... and then any other attacks that doesn't cover could be made to order when someone needs it... Apparently my retirement was premature :) This is a long project so don't expect it tomorrow but I thought I'd let people know what I'm doing.

Great to see that you didnt leave us in a rush Kinboat! :)
Ive got a question for you, wich formats are Moray and Poser able to import?

/OmniMower

Poser can import 3DS files by using a plug-in, but you also need to have 3DS Max instaleld :(

That was to bad...

Actually there is a program called 3Dwin... It allows someone to convert between many different formats... I'm currently Exporting Poser files as 3ds and then using this program to convert them into UDO objects which I can import into Moray... Are you sure you need 3dsMax? I don't and I imported a 3ds jeep file... I'm using Poser 4... with the ProPack...

Ive got some standard models of men, tanks, planes and horses etc..
About the only file I can import or export is DXF. The problems are that it does not include textures- you would have to add them your self.
Sounds like a good idea, I've recently managed to cut my cuting and pasting time in half by eliminating the "Cut" part of the action. So for me animation is not quite the pain it once was, but it still takes as long to do the rendering as it does to do the pasting because I have to do the animation "live" as I render- Once I get a proper 3d program it should be a breeze.

Great, this is exaclty what I was hoping to accomplish with this thread!

Yes textures would be a problem..... I was thinking about that a few days ago..... because (at least with rhino) the are imported via file path name. Next time I save, I'll double check, but I am pretty damn sure rhino can save it's models in at least 20 different formats, including .3do.

Well then...

1 person do the moddeling.
1 person do the texturing and
1 person do the animation...

That is exactly what I mean Grey Fox, if that would be possible it would be great!! :goodjob:

/OmniMower

I already posted this in another thread, but no one took up the chalenge; But to get the ball rolling I'm going to post my heavy bomber model; planes are quite easy to animate so it should be a good starting point for a beginer; it doesn't include texture (I think it comes in a default orange) so someone will have to picksome.

If any one wants any of my other models, just post a request and I'll post a DXF model.

BomberDXF (http://civfanatics.net/uploads/bomber.zip)

Great Smoking Mirror,
hope there is someone out there who will try it out.

/OmniMower

Can you export in any other file types?

I checked and rhino can import and export most 3d files, including autocad, lightwav, moray, and all the other major ones I have seen posted here.

File formats supported by Rhinoceros 2.0: DWG/DXF(AutoCAD 2000, 14, 13, and 12 ), SAT (ACIS), X_T (Parasolid), 3DS, LWO, STL, OBJ, AI, RIB, POV, UDO, VRML, BMP, TGA, JPG, CSV (export properties and hydrostatics), uncompressed TIFF, STEP, VDA, GHS, SLC, Deep Paint 4D.

IGES (Alias, Ashlar Vellum, AutoFORM, AutoShip, Breault, CADCEUS, CAMSoft, CATIA, Cosmos, Delcam, FastSurf, FastSHIP, Integrity Ware, IronCAD, LUSAS, Maya, MAX 3.0, MasterCAM, ME30, Mechanical Desktop, Microstation, NuGraf, OptiCAD, Pro/E, SDRC I-DEAS, Softimage, Solid Edge, SolidWorks, SUM3D, SURFCAM, TeKSoft, Unigraphics), NASA GridTool, Yamaha ESPRi.

There are many comments here, but it's still far away fom prime KalEl's wish : have standard models !

Could anyone post a human model ?

It would be a great start !

If someone could do some standard animations (skeleton) aswell, that would be awesome.

The only thing that could hold a standard model is the human body.
The rest is so diff looking models between, so to make a standard model of tanks, airunits and so on wont be possible.

I'm almost done with a naked human model... I've got the default, run, and death finished. I'm going to make a sword type attack and post it here somewhere... Then I thought I'd do a few more different attack styles... Or maybe just wait for a request. next couple of days and I'll post it.

would love to see several attack styles.

I would love to see a martial artist unit eventually. think Bruce Lee :D

I was just thinking that... Now I'm just posting the FLC files... The actual Moray files are huge, so it's only really useful for cut and paste editing. I'm trying to find a way to shrink the files size so i can post the actual Moray file for anyone who uses that, but I'm not sure if it's possible.

Kinboat,
how do you export your 3D animations from the prg to pcx. Or do you just take "snapshots" at the animation into pics and then paste them into an animation...if you know what I mean?

I am going to start a new thread just for unit models, skins, animations, etc. Otherwise I think they will get lost here.

Here is the thread to post those Base Model Files, etc. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31937)

In Moray you can set what image format the renders are saved in... I just save them in BMP and then open that file in an image editor and paste it into the PCX I get out of Flicster. So for an animation I render each frame individually and paste it into the PCX then render the next frame etc. Any other questions?

In 3D studio Max you can actually render a animation into .FLC's.. I don't know how the result will be but I will look into it.

grey fox

you can?? ill definetly check that..

any ideas what versions?

The problem is that it can't render to Civ3 FLC format, You can combine 8 diection FLCs in FLICster but they have to have the exact same palette.

I've posted a naked human model in the other thread Kal-el started... Any discussion or comments should go here though to keep that thread less cluttered.

Is it skeleton based?

What Format is it in?

Could someone do an animation of someone shooting with a Rifle, I know Balou's Final Fantasy unit will have almost what I want.

But if you have a unit with a great skeleton I can make my own animation. It's the skeleton part I'm not good with.

I just posted the FLC files... The moray files are huge (about 40 meg for the run alone). Part of the reason for this is that it's done in Poser and has more detail then is needed. But also during the conversion to Moray UDO it seems to balloon the size of the files. I was planning on making a rifle animation for it. Don't know if that will help since it's gear towards cut and paste.

Different attack styles on your naked guy is a great idea I may use it for my units.

I would suggest several attacks (bow, staff, punching even?) I need some where the guy just waves his hands as if casting a spell.

GIDustin

any one want my ideas for "guerilla moon scinerio"

Wrong thread, guyincorner

Hey folks -

I would love to try making some units, but 3D software is a little out of my budget right now. Has anyone been using freeware? I downloaded this thing called 3D Canvas, and it appears to be a good program. I don't want to waste my time on it if it's not compatible with the Civ3 files. Does anyone know anything about it?

Anyway, I'm not a bad artist, and if I can't do the actual units, I'd love to do concept work for any type of scenario.

If your program can render to a common format (BMP, PCX, PNG, GIF, ect.) you can make the units, check the Tutorial section for more info.

is it ok to post something that someone else made?

i have a few 3ds units that i,ve d/l off the net, and i think would look great as units in the game. one is a personal hovercraft that looks like this

Stainz,

I guess I would try and contact the person who made the model. If there is no way to contact them they probably gave up rights to it when they posted it on the net for download. But I am not sure 100% on that.

Kinboat,

Anyway that we can see some previews of that model you posted over on the other thread?

On that note:

It would be a good idea to give some previews when anybody posts some more models on the other thread.

Sorry I should have thought of that... And I'm still working throught some other attack animations for it. Here's a preview of the run.

Originally posted by Nder
Stainz,

I guess I would try and contact the person who made the model. If there is no way to contact them they probably gave up rights to it when they posted it on the net for download. But I am not sure 100% on that.

they were free, mostly from 3d cafe or links therein. i,ll post what i have in the other thread and if a mod thinks that they should be removed, i,ll do so. i just have to zip them up and post them with a preview.

3D-Cafe is one site where people can get tons of free models. Most are in 3DS format but there are also some in DXF.

So get your Free Stuff at 3D-Cafe (http://www.3dcafe.com/asp/meshes.asp)

and if anybody knows of any other secret Cache's out there please place a link in this thread as well.

www.freedomforcecenter.net has a bunch of 3DS models for use in that game, but there is no reason why they can't be used as base models for Civ3 units as well. If you are not familiar with the game, it is a superhero TBS, looks cool, haven't played it. I do know that the models are all in 3DS format so if you download the models from www.freedomforcecenter.com or the "Pregen In-Game Character Models" and "All Custom Character Models" downloads from http://www.irrational-games.com/modforce/downloads.htm you should be able to use those and make some cool units.

Ok, I just uploaded preview images and links to a bunch of good models over at 3D-Cafe in the other thread. There are a lots of others available there, I just posted the ones I thought were the best.

Kinboat, could you also post your base model in 3DS format for other people to use?

Nder,

thanks for all those models. Hopefully someone will be able to use them.

Stainz,

You should just link to the download from 3D-Cafe, rather than uploading the file to the CFC server. Also, I can't see any of your previews.

I uploaded a bunch of models, 14 to be exact, from the game Freedom Force. I think these should be usable via 3ds max.

There are a couple of big downloads available through ModForce.com or follow the links below:

Pregen In-Game Character Models: (http://www.irrational-games.com/modforce/files/pregens.zip) Includes the character models, skins, keyframes, and .max files for all of the characters included in the game. (about 16MB)

and

All Custom Character Models: (http://www.irrational-games.com/modforce/files/all_customs.zip) The post-release custom characters released by Irrational in one easy-to-download package. (about 10MB)

the models I uploaded on the other thread are not available in these two downloads.

this site has some free models of WWII vehicles:
http://home.planet.nl/~nab00004/

Originally posted by Kal-el
Stainz,

You should just link to the download from 3D-Cafe, rather than uploading the file to the CFC server. Also, I can't see any of your previews.

sorry dude, i,ll do that next time. if i can find the links for the ones i posted, i,ll change them.

i try to fix the previews.

Stainz,

I can see the previews now. Thanks. :) I wasn't trying to be demanding. I suppose you could upload them to the CFC server, I was trying to conserve space here and reduce traffic. I would rather crash somebody else's site than have the CFC server go down. :p

Anyway, thanks for putting up those models. Hopefully they will be put to good use.

good that you can see them.

i tried to put them onto my server but was having a nasty problem in doing so. and being as impatient as i am... well, they went here instead.

i concur, i would rather have someone else go down than CFC.

p.o.e.

Not me though, right? :p

GIDustin

Originally posted by GIDustin
Not me though, right? :p

GIDustin

well... why not¿

actually, i,ve been to your site a few times, and i must say, that it is nice. :goodjob:

I wonder if anybody is using the models that have been posted.

Does anybody know what format Unreal Tournament characters are in? And isn't it possible to mod them?

Originally posted by OmniMower
stainz, is it me or ....but the X29 polygons look wierd...

i,m not sure what your getting at?

the angle?

They look like they are unmapped

Originally posted by OmniMower
They look like they are unmapped

yeah, the x-29 was missing a few meshes (at least i think it was.) but it was free. (;

i converted it to bmp from 3d max. but i don,t know how to change the background in the preview before i convert it to bmp so all i get is a black bg. i never really noticed myself.

maybe i should take it off the thread?

nah, keep it in, your import explains the polygon thing. :D the original is in 3DS format?

Originally posted by OmniMower
nah, keep it in, your import explains the polygon thing. :D the original is in 3DS format?

yup, it,s in .3ds

i also forgot. after the bmp conversion, i changed it to jpg for size reasons before i posted it.

i found a few more tonight, but i,m going to wait to post them to see if i can,t find out how to change the bg color so the pre views look a little better.

i tried to change the palette after the conversion but.... well i,ll just keep it at that ):

You can render with a certain background, right?

Originally posted by OmniMower
You can render with a certain background, right?

i didn,t render them. i did a quick render (not the same?) and saved as bmp. then converted to jpg.

i,m mostly cut,n paste. this 3d soft is really new to me. but i,m trying.

anyways, time for bed. i,ve been on nights since mon. and now i,m going back to days, so to get my sleep pattern right again, i haven,t been to sleep in about 26 hrs.

but tomorrow is another day. (:

p.o.e.

Gunpoint has this very cool patrol boat (FREE!) for D/L right now.

Gunpoint 3D Models (http://www.gunpoint-3d.com/downloads.php?id=PBoat)

Is photoshop a practical application for making units?

Some more free models can be found at Baumgarten Enterprises (http://64.198.60.83/baument/archives.htm)

Kal... I went to the link you gave for Gmax, and downloaded the installer from their web page, but instead of intsalling Gmax, it installs this game called "XIII" :ack:

The tutorial, textures and help ZIPs are correct, but the installer doesn't install Gmax :(

Any idea where else I could try to download it from?

If this thread (though rarely visited anymore) is for creators to share resources & otherwise aid each other - can someone suggest which 3D program would be best to use for a newcomer? What is the commonly used programs you guys use, so that us 'newbs' have a base model to work with?